Hall of Fame

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's try that again. Hello, all right, one, two, three, seems to be working.

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Speaker 2: This up, you guys. I know there's people out there probably listening anyway. Is it working, Yeah, it's working. Okay, phones off? Please, jeez, that's probably your flat, it's not. Oh hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee sub Tennis Podcast. Caitlin. I think people like al shenanigans before I actually get serious, like, you guys should see the way we have to set up. Do they this podcast?

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Speaker 1: No? I don't think they like hearing about the labor that goes into it. They just want this to seamlessly appear in their feet.

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Speaker 2: Well, I hope that everybody appreciates that we do sound better these days.

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Speaker 1: It's true. I was having a conversation with Subner, frequent listener who said, yeah, some of those episodes were real rough, and I had to some Yeah, you know, it's all uh, it's all the upswing. Everybody appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: You know what I appreciate.

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Speaker 1: I think I've actually just learned how to do the ad markers correctly. For the first time. I have been placing them using a different system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, yeah, we apologize for that because we did get a couple of people writing us on Twitter and they were like, you know, and I would listen to the I do listen to the podcast eventually myself, just because I like to make sure it all goes smoothly. And then I think, what am I going to get sued for or something like that. But overall I do listen to it, and I'm like, what the hell, I'm in the middle of the word and or a santence and boom we go straight to.

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Speaker 1: This because the clock on the publishing software and the clock on the timeline do not align. Why they don't align, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So I want everybody out there to know that is not my forte at all.

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Speaker 1: It should be made so it's actually the Billiam rests here. Oh good, finally, well you mean finally I can accountability for.

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Speaker 2: Finally, finally I can hear something.

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Speaker 1: You're both the talent and uh, the person not responsible.

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Speaker 2: For a Definitely, I would like everybody out there to know that we do appreciate the fact that you have stuck with us through the it and the bad.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. One thing on the note of the good is I heard from a lot of people about the last two episodes in particular, we really hit some nerves. I think we talked about Battle of the Sexes. We talked about whether Justin Hanna's back in was better or prettier than the stan Verrinca's. I mostly heard from people who affirmed my worldview. Oh my god, sure I ever heard from people who affirmed your world do you We'll have to have a neutral third party on maybe sometime soon to mediate You.

00:02:26
Speaker 2: Know who we're going to ask because she'll give it to us because she does not have a one handed back in. Is Petko when she comes back into New York, and she will be back on the pot at some point, We're going to ask her this question with her not knowing unless she listens to the pod every time, and she does, but sometimes she gets a bit behind.

00:02:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe she hasn't heard it so she can win.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're going to ask her who she thinks, and then we'll ask somebody with a great one handed back in. Anyway, let's before we dive into a lot. We've got a lot to talk about today. But Janick Sinner, Carlis Agarez, I know it finished a few days ago. I'm'm sorry we didn't get to you sooner, but Caitlin and I get a little bit busy or out of town with each other.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: We were both out of town. Actually we have incredibly fun things to report. Yes, and also I would feel worse about missing the day after if the exact thing that I knew was going to happen didn't happen. So it's like, okay, well, yep, GrlA Zakarez versus NX Center in the final, with the NX centner winning comfortably in two sets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was uh look.

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Speaker 1: I mean credit to them. I'm not saying it was bad. It's just I didn't need to be on top of it.

00:03:25
Speaker 2: No, look, it was a fabulous match for about a set. It was pretty good for two sets. But the standard of tennis that these guys are playing now is it's just on another level.

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Speaker 1: It's true. Somebody was posting just even as recently as twenty seventeen. One of the finals sort of highlight selections from the Australian Open, which famously Router Fetter came back and beat Rafa and like the pace, the movement, the ball variety was. I remember at the time thinking wow, tennis cannot get better than and then like it looks like they're playing in slow motion. And this is like literally less than ten years ago. Yeah, and so it's just crazy to me how much more optimized the game has gotten. And you know, not to take anything away from anybody who played in a different era, it's just the game keeps getting better. These guys keep getting fitter, they keep getting bolder, And yeah, we saw the natural sort of conclusion that I think a lot of us expected, which was the two best players in the field by several orders of magnitude faced off and the guy who had a little bit more of a hot streak and who had a better record on that surface prevented.

00:04:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's on an incredible winning streak indoors. It's really remarkable. But his game is so suited to indoors. He can just wallop the ball, just wallop the ball. And I'm going to say and make a statement that I think Darren Kle will be back next year because look at that does get rid of him.

00:04:46
Speaker 1: Can we just call him and just ask him to confirm or deny so we don't have to have a running dialogue about that.

00:04:51
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what when and if he decides to announce this finally and we get the aoka. I will make him come on this podcast, or I will he.

00:04:59
Speaker 1: Was a great when he was on this podcast before.

00:05:01
Speaker 2: I will make him come on the podcast, or I will divulge things about him weekly. Oh, Darren a threat, You're unnoticed.

00:05:07
Speaker 1: He's told the funniest story about how his wife desperately wanted him to coach merits Haf. It's so funny, and instead he chose undo agacy for many reasons, but not least which was the fact that Maretzaffen was sex on skates.

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Speaker 2: Financially, it was a very good decision and.

00:05:22
Speaker 1: Better decision bring up for coach watch. Though. While we're talking about that, you tweeted to Stephano saits.

00:05:29
Speaker 2: Bass I said, Hi, are me he should? He should?

00:05:32
Speaker 1: He could?

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Speaker 2: It was funny though, I mean I sort of did it as a bit of a joke, and yet, knowing his thoughts on women, I don't think he's going to have a female coach.

00:05:42
Speaker 1: I don't think he's particularly sexist.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: He's a few dodgy stuff on.

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Speaker 1: I think mostly Twitter persona is cut and pieced.

00:05:50
Speaker 2: All right, Well we'll soon find out, won't we. Yeah, I'm putting it out there I am available, and I am I'm available. But listen back to the match. It was unbelievable quality. Nyanik was just a little bit better on a couple of big occasions. I think one of the things that Carlos did not do well is he missed a couple of volleys that he normally would make on big shots on big points. I think it's one area as good a olley as he is. I actually think it's an area that he can get better at. I do not like his chopping motion on his volleys, and people are going to be like, what, So just trust me when I tell you one thing I can critique any player on is how to hit a volley. My volleys were very good. It's what the only thing I could definitely rely on under pressure. But he gets to chop choppy on his volley. So Carlos, friend, give me a call. I'll help you with those. He just drops his head of the racket too much on particularly his forehand volley. But you know I'm picking at straws. I mean, this guy's so good, So don't get at me and be like, I can't believe you're trying to tell Carlos Alcahaz how to play tennis.

00:06:56
Speaker 1: But I think one of the things that's so great about both of them is that they are constantly improving and constantly open to searing from their coaches. Obviously, because every time they play, one of them has leapfrogged the other in terms of skill sets. And so somebody was joking around, like, you know, lol, the jokes on Yannick, because this is only going to make the Carlos Alcaaz that shows up in Melbourne in a month and a half like that much better, which is pray it's not on non credible like that is possible, quite possible and probably likely. Oh yeah, I'm going to learn and improve from this one match, which is crazy to me, the metabolism of ways that these guys are getting better.

00:07:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they've spoken about it. I mean, the reason why they're so good is that they know they have to be that good to beat each other, and they have set the bar for each other all the other players. And I've listened to a couple of other podcasts and some people you know, said, well, they're going to make the players below them better. And I don't see the players below them reaching that.

00:07:51
Speaker 1: I don't either see that. I don't either, but I will extend and maybe I'm biased, Well I definitely am biased, but I will extend a little Felix. Yes, I will extend a little bit of optimism, because this Felix that we have seen towards the end of the season, especially at the tour finals, to make the Semis and make a very very strong run, is looser, and I think maybe they will never rach that gap. Like it's hard to imagine right now that the way that the Slams went this year, splitting between Carlos and Yanik, it's hard enough to imagine that that happens again next year.

00:08:25
Speaker 2: Maybe it happening for the next five years.

00:08:28
Speaker 1: But I do think there could and should be a few players below them in the chase, who get inspired, who get better, who get more comfortable, And I definitely think from a comfort perspective. Al KaAZ has played, I mean, Felix Aujelia Seam has played with a swagger and a looseness that we haven't seen. He's not loose, I still describe it.

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Speaker 2: The issue with Felix is he has to do it outside right. And this is the thing that you know, look a couple of years ago when he won that in the fond indoors, It's like, yes, and I again, I don't at me. I'm not comparing myself, but I know when I went indoors, I was like, my confidence level went up ten to fifteen percent every time I stepped on an indoor court.

00:09:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was like, even in singles, I was like, I can beat these players indoors on a quickish court, no variables. I'm going to come in, I'm going to be aggressive, like I just felt ten to twenty percent better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's interesting because there are players like I'm thinking of, like Alicia Parks for example, We're like, oh, well that player really likes playing on an indoor are like it, Suso game suits your game. She's got that big serve.

00:09:34
Speaker 2: It's even bigger, and your anxiety level is less because you know you're going to be if you played, yes, you're going to be the better player. And that's how Yannick is. The difference is that Yanni can play at any court because he has no weaknesses. The guy has no weaknesses. It's the same with Carlos.

00:09:48
Speaker 1: He's a little boring.

00:09:49
Speaker 2: He's a little boring. He doesn't have any weaknesses. No, but you know, he implemented, He's implemented this year a fourhand drop shot, like there was a massive point. He got lucky on the break point, he hit a shank return. Then he hit a huge toppy fourhand and got Carlos off the court. And he chose to hit a slice, fullhand drop shot that won the point. And that would have done that two years ago.

00:10:10
Speaker 1: Not only would he have not many years ago, but I think that's a way in which he learns from Carlos exactly. Like that's to me the coolest part of this. And I think, you know, talking about Pecko, one of my favorite essays that she ever wrote for Racket was talking about rivalries and the way that truly truly both in the art world, which was her jumping off point froming around Jackson Pollock and her.

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Speaker 2: And if you guys haven't read that, get yourself.

00:10:33
Speaker 1: It's great. We should make it available maybe for the holidays. Yeah, it's a good one. If you subscribe, you get access to the back catalog, but if you don't, it's I believe an issue number three or four. And she talked about how that same artist rivalry informed and uh, sort of paralleled her own with her countrywoman Angie Kerber, who a friendly rivalry that is really truly opening up doors and possibilities. In the case of Yennick and Carlos, like really adding dimensionality to the way that they play. It's exciting and you're right, like nobody really is going to catch them. But I do hope that there's a little bit of a tailwind for the other folks in the top echelon. Everyone was said top ten or top eight, which is obviously who should up to play in Turin last week, but like just this, I hope that there's the possibilities have been illuminated more thoroughly so that somebody like Taylor Fritz, who's probably always going to be limited a little bit by his lack of athleticism or.

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Speaker 2: Well he's lack of athleticism, but also I've spoken about as at nauseum is his inability to play inside the service line. He's just not a good volleyer. He picks the wrong shots to come in on. He just it's it's a shame because I think if he elevated that part of his game, he might be able to not always, but I think he could beat one of these guys in a big match.

00:11:51
Speaker 1: He reminds me a little bit of Andy Murray in that way where it's like Andy got dimensionality to his game because he had to, yeah, and he went from being kind of a retrievable style hard basseliner to somebody who could really you know, and Andy was willing to attack the angles of the court, and Andy knew that, and he knew and Andy didn't really have a lot of weaknesses either, and that the thing his second serve was a bit shite kind of sat there. But other than that, and speaking of second serves, I think one of the things that Carlos will be looking out for if he does play against Yanick in the next match is that Yanick was taking a lot of chances on his second serve. And there was some huge points in that match where Yannick went for the second serve and instead of just sort of hitting the you know, that sort of ninety mile an hour kickserve, he was going like one hundred miles.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: An hour hard and flatter, and it was it was pushing Carlos back off of the baseline, and it was creating errors off of the return, and it was also keeping him not in the driver's seat. Yanick was in the driver's seat with his serve first and second serve. And I think he learned a big lesson from the losses that he had was that he had to take a few more chances. And he did that, and that was the difference makeud his second serve or his serve in general. And that's again, Caitlin, that you what you can do indoors, you know and get I know, I bring it back to my I don't usually do this, but I do bring it back to myself in this situation. I went for more on my second serve indoors as well, because technically I had a good serve and he has technically, Yannick a very good serve, so he can afford to go for a little bit more indoors because there's no win, there's no sun, you can take a few more chances because you know you're ultimately probably going to make it more than you're going to miss. So outdoors with the wind, with the sun, you got to be a little bit careful. The wind could take it a little bit further than you wanted to or whatever. But indoors, you know exactly what you need to do to get it to a spot. And his serve is so good that he knows that he can take those chances so he can have a done. And look, you know, when he lost the French Open this year, he served for the match and he did not serve a good game. And I'm sure that that just can bothers him so much that he didn't serve that totament out. I don't think it bothers him that he didn't. The game before when he was up love forty, he played a pretty good game. He missed that one fourhand off a bit of a dodgy bounce, which I've spoken about. When he turned around and looked at the Carlos crew, and I could tell his anxiety went up, but it was more on the racket. When he served for it, he did not serve a good game. So I think the difference when he's won matches. Same at Wimbledon, he went for the second serve and he utilized the speed of that grass court, and he did it again in the finals here. And look, there's no question that Carlos was a little bit injured. Yeah, clearly he's pulled out of Davis Cup, which you know some people were probably like, well, it's not a surprise, I'm not shocked. Well, the Spanish team have not won the Davis Cup since I believe twenty nineteen, and Carlos was not a part of that team. He's the new generation of Spanish players, and I know that he's desperate to win a Davis Cup because it is a notch in your belt to say that you led your team to a Davis Cup.

00:14:49
Speaker 1: Or super with the country that has such a proud tradition of and team competition.

00:14:53
Speaker 2: The last time they won it was of course, I think Rafa went eight to zero in his singles and doubles, and Carlos he wants to have that. He wants to have that legacy as well with Spanish tennis. So I know that he went there to go and try and win it. So he obviously has an injury. He pulled out with that leg injury, so he was clearly injured a little bit in the final. But having said that, I think that Yannick, even if Carlos was probably one hundred percent, probably wins that match just based on the surface and the way he plays indoors. But hey, overall, what an amazing year for the two of them. Carlos finishes number one in the world. Yannick wins two majors. Carlos wins two majors. Yanick has match points to win, you know, potentially a third major. I know you hate the sort of rivalry thing, but from a pure standpoint of a viewer and a tennis fan and a tennis purist like I am, these two are just I mean, it's just so exciting, and I think the other guys behind them really need to push the envelope a lot.

00:15:48
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that, likely become close to them. Do you think coming out of the Tour finals there are any other players besides the two of them who have some wind in their sales looking at what a twenty No, I don't. Again, I don't really want to sort of talk majors wise, because it's hard to imagine anybody but them, barring any sort of serious injury or series upset, doesn't exactly have one.

00:16:13
Speaker 2: I have one at the straight and open anybody Novak I think Novak can I do? And I said it over and over. I do think that Novak is setting his sights. I don't think he cared about the ATV finals. Clearly he didn't play it. I think he's going to put all this time and effort into busting his ass one last.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: Time to win down in Australia.

00:16:35
Speaker 2: I think he's the only one that can rock the you know, the cherry cart for Yannick and for Carlos. Carlos has never made the finals there. Yeah, I mean, look, Novak crushed him down there last year. There was one set that was really good, but overall Novak was a better player. So I think Novak goes in there going I know I can potentially get to a semim final there, and I know I have maybe one more last grasp. I don't think he'd beat as someone like Yanick on that court. I think Yanick is just too good on that court anymore. But it might be the one place that Novak can you know.

00:17:09
Speaker 1: So you never know, I mean, that's where you play the matches might not make it.

00:17:12
Speaker 2: This also injuries, I mean, an injury can happen to a player, and you know, there's been a couple of players that have slipped through and won a Grand Slam because the top players got injured.

00:17:21
Speaker 1: Who else besides Novak comes out of twenty twenty five with some pep in their step.

00:17:28
Speaker 2: On the men's side, I think that Felix has an opportunity to maybe reach a major semi in Australia. I don't know. I mean Fonseca. You hope that he can, like you know, find his rhythm and start having more of a continuity to his results. Or I don't see anybody else Mussetti on the clay. Maybe Musseti on the clay as possible, certainly, but I don't see anybody else breaking through next year. I hope we do. Look, don't get me wrong, I really do.

00:18:02
Speaker 1: I would love to see Jack Streeper back and healthy.

00:18:04
Speaker 2: Jack is certainly a potential if he's healthy and back playing at the austra and Open. It's a good court for him. It's very hot down there though, and he's not exactly the best in the heat, but neither was Novak and he won the tournament ten times. So I remember Novactor would just be dying in the Australian heat, but he figured out a way with his metabolism and his you know what, he was putting in his body to get him to be better in the heat.

00:18:26
Speaker 1: A lot of hugs also famously doing a lot of hugging. He had a guru about hugs.

00:18:31
Speaker 2: Yes, maybe you need to get some hugs in.

00:18:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll hug Jack Chaper while we're.

00:18:36
Speaker 2: Talking about the guys before we get to more things that interesting. John Wortheim also spoke about it on the Socials about some of these Russian players playing in this gaz Prom event exhibition.

00:18:50
Speaker 1: I love tennis because you Renee Stubbs, a graduate of the Australian Institute of Sport, are now talking about the oligarch era, Russian pre Soviet breakup, financial distribution of resources.

00:19:02
Speaker 2: Listen, I went to Russia when it was Russia, when it was a Usshah.

00:19:05
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

00:19:05
Speaker 2: How old I am?

00:19:06
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

00:19:07
Speaker 2: I went there at eighteen in the Hotel Russia. It was the biggest hotel I've ever stayed. And there was an east, west, north, and south side of the hotel. It was so big we weren't allowed to leave the hotel. Sure it was I it was it was something else. It was like, you can't leave the hotel. You go too. I'm good, I don't go back to the hotel. It's like, do you see me walking out of here? And then like a couple of years later when they opened up the US sign and became Russia. I remember being there with Lisa Raymond and we used to walk every day. We'd go to this American diner. We'd find this diner. I can't remember the name of it, but it was a diner and we were like, it was like, oh, it was like the Mecca. We're like, oh my god. We found like we'd have like tuna melts and like rubens.

00:19:52
Speaker 1: You just weren't drinking borshed by the gallon. Oh.

00:19:55
Speaker 2: We were going and finding the most disgusting American food we could find, and we loved every second of it. And it was like, as you know, I mean, I've I should write a book, but anyway I.

00:20:04
Speaker 1: Read a book, you need a ghost writer. I volunteer.

00:20:07
Speaker 2: I've already told you that you can write my book. Okay, great, anyway, So what do you think about that?

00:20:11
Speaker 1: So situation more context. The Gazprom, which was obviously is a state run Putin affiliated financier actually of a lot of the bombings that are going on in Ukraine, has put on an exhibition invited a number of top players around the world, and many of the Russians are playing it, including Medvedev, Karen Katchanov, Andrey Rublev. I believe is not playing is not playing it, Podopova, I'm gonna get some of the women's names wrong, but yeah, there's a there's a there's some non Russians too. I think some of the suburban All the women didn't surprise me at all. Yeah.

00:20:50
Speaker 2: Sure, they've all been very open about their love of their country into this trying time. But I'm little surprised at Medvedev, who apparently was invited last year and said no, I said no. I'm a little surprised with Karen Hutchanoff, to be honest as well.

00:21:08
Speaker 1: Karen Kushenov is as far as I know, and my Russian knowledge is not the most in depth, but not Chinese. But I believe Karen Kashenov is from a minority group. That is, I'm not sure what their relationship with the majority government. You remember had the Saffins and Stephena were Tatars. I think Katschenov is from an ethnic minority group.

00:21:33
Speaker 2: Yes, I do believe.

00:21:33
Speaker 1: I don't know where that ethnic minority group sits with regards to I think Kremlin a.

00:21:39
Speaker 2: Little opposite to the Kremlin. I believe so I'm a little surprised. Anyway, it was just a little bit shocking.

00:21:44
Speaker 1: I don't see this as being terribly different from any other exo with prize money. I mean, I realized that this is.

00:21:51
Speaker 2: Like saying six kings, for example, or Saudi.

00:21:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see this. These are private contractors, which was John Wortham's point, and they're going where the bag is. Yeah.

00:22:04
Speaker 2: John John was not happy about it either. So anyway, I.

00:22:06
Speaker 1: Just I don't know, I don't I mean, I'm not trying to give anybody an out. I don't know Medvedev's I'm not in politics, but I think because he lives in France most of the time, he speaks a fluent French and he's i think officially a citizen of Monaca. Yes, I don't think he spends a ton of time.

00:22:21
Speaker 2: It's a bit a bit it was yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, that's that's my comments on it.

00:22:29
Speaker 1: You really like, you really came in, came in hot, and I just went out like a lamb. I like, I want to talk about Gazprom, I want to talk about the Grimlin. I want to talk about Actually, You're like, I don't.

00:22:38
Speaker 2: Know geopolitically, you just have a better understanding of sort of like those conversations. That's why I ask you. You asked me tennis. I asked you politics. Yeah, of politics, and the last thing you want to talk about in your life is politics, which cracks me up.

00:22:54
Speaker 1: Political journalists. Three presidential campaigns under my belt and not one more for the rest of my life. I can tell you that much, assuming we still have a presidency in a couple of years.

00:23:13
Speaker 2: Chris U.

00:23:14
Speaker 1: Banks announced his refinement. What a gym.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, lovely guy. Fantastic year that he had, was it last year?

00:23:21
Speaker 1: Three years ago? Three?

00:23:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, two seasons ago.

00:23:26
Speaker 1: He one hand, backhand, South Atlanta native South Fulton Tennis Center will represent one hander Georgia tech, yellow jacket, all around stand up guy, phenomenal commentator, and a grass court specialist, which I don't know.

00:23:44
Speaker 2: I last court. I would call him a fast court specialist.

00:23:47
Speaker 1: I would love to ask him if he anticipated his best successes and titles coming on grass. Grass.

00:23:55
Speaker 2: Yes, I can answer that question. But as a kid growing up in with the merchant light sprinkled listen, I would say my favorite and best surface was grass or a fast indoor court. And I didn't grow up on grass I mean, even though I was like, yeah, Australie and of course you played on grass, I'm like, yeah, we played on grass like once a year. Maybe we were playing on synthetic grass and hard court and shitty do it?

00:24:20
Speaker 1: I would weader and we should ask him, and I'm sure he would do the pod. He's a lovely person, yea, And yeah, Chris, come up. He's now doing as he very very much deserves to be doing a little bit of a victory lap. I hope he stays involved in tennis and on our cover excellent at.

00:24:34
Speaker 2: It, but he'll be commentating down I uh.

00:24:38
Speaker 1: I have a suspicion he probably didn't play on grass until at the very earliest, maybe in an international junior tournament here there, like maybe he got invited to US Junior Wimbledon or US or but I kind of doubt it. I think he probably didn't play on grass until he got to post pros. Anyway, I'm not trying to make this his career all about grass, but he is. He was exciting to who's fun to watch, and more than anything else, he assumes like a universally beloved, thoughtful, kind looking.

00:25:08
Speaker 2: Great guy, great guy of ten great commentator, great knowledge, great and you know what the thing about Chris is, and I can tell you this with working with him. He researches and he does the work, and he does the he does the he does the little things that some other people don't when it comes to commentary and comes to even if you if you get him for an interview, he'll make sure that he's If you say, oh, Chris, we want to talk about X, you know later today, he'll research it and he just doesn't go out there and come crush. So Chris, congratulations on an amazing career. And I'm sure that you're going to be a successful in doing whatever you're doing. So so well done, my friend. I just want to backtrack a little bit to Davis Cup for a second. I cannot believe that tennis is still going on even Tennis Channel the other day put on one of their.

00:25:53
Speaker 1: He's like wave the white flag like that.

00:25:56
Speaker 2: Just when you thought the thing was over, we're still here. You also, why Cineple's out. We'll give the guy a break. He's won two titles back to back. For you, He's had an unbelievably long year, a stress or a year marked by you know the suspension for three months, which I'm sure took a mental.

00:26:11
Speaker 1: Toll on him.

00:26:13
Speaker 2: But you know, look, somebody else has to try and win. There's enough bloody Italian players to try and win the Davis Cup again.

00:26:19
Speaker 1: So very deep bench, I do think that much like your topsy turvy let's throw a grenade in the mix kind of commentary, like let's give everyone press access for a year, or let's condense this. You know, have this thing every four years, guys, please, oh yeah, just make it meaningful because two years, every two years like the World Cup kind of thing.

00:26:42
Speaker 2: Okay, with every two years. Its kind of like ryde A Cup.

00:26:45
Speaker 1: You know. Well, I don't care about golf and I can't, but I do think some I think four years feels good. It's like the Olympics.

00:26:54
Speaker 2: We're like, oh, I don't have it in the Olympic year, don't.

00:26:57
Speaker 1: Have it in the open you have it off years. So every two years really big? Yeah, make it really big. And I do think and you've been saying this for a long time and I kind of have not really appreciated it because I didn't ever play on my countries.

00:27:09
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say you didn't appreciate.

00:27:11
Speaker 1: Me, and maybe I didn't appreciate you. But here I am telling you twice today. Wow, I'm gonna start crying. I do think that you have been right to say that it really misses out from not having a home and away. I think the whole thing of it actually is that you need to give people the opportunity to celebrate their country. And I'm not saying you need to play the preliminary rounds in a particular, you know place. I think it's probably smart to rotate that, but when it gets down to like the last.

00:27:41
Speaker 2: That especially better idea.

00:27:42
Speaker 1: I think should have rotation. They should. I it would be cool to have it like the way that we have basketball, where it's like if it's Australia VERSUS America, then maybe it's best you do it every four years American and Australia are going to split the finals. So the one match in each place, and if there's a third, whoever has the best or score, you do it there. I don't know. Something that does get the crowd involved, but maybe doesn't give us such a huge advantage, or at least people can fly to one place and know that they're going to see their people yeah, maybe.

00:28:09
Speaker 2: You have a grouped a thing at one place and it becomes a destination for tennis fans to go and watch their country, and then you have the winner. What people don't understand is that those countries have to via for it, like they you know, they have to say, yeah, we want it to here, right. Some don't want it because they can't afford it.

00:28:28
Speaker 1: Who doesn't want it?

00:28:29
Speaker 2: Some can't afford it. Some you know, a country like I don't know. Let's say I'm not gonna say Italy because they get great support.

00:28:36
Speaker 1: But let's say Belgium.

00:28:39
Speaker 2: Belgium, they can't afford to build the stadium or you know it at all all the things. I don't know. It's not that easy. It does cost the federation. It's quite a lot of money to put on Fed Cup, a Belligan King Cup and Davis Cup.

00:28:50
Speaker 1: So she resolve the more reason to do it every four.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Years exactly, and then all and the IF should be unbelievably much more supportive of helping with that.

00:28:58
Speaker 1: That does grassroots.

00:29:02
Speaker 2: Okay, well, let's get to a little bit of the grassroots and talk about some fabulous news that we found out today. Oh and this is one of the reasons why we're glad we didn't do the podcast on Monday, because we would not have known this news. One bit of news that we already knew was that mister Roger Federer will be going into the Tennis Hall of Fame, and you know, arguably, I would say, is going to be the most unbelievably popular champion to ever go in there. I think the love he's going to receive that weekend is going to be extraordinary, but more importantly.

00:29:39
Speaker 1: More importantly, more importantly a lot.

00:29:43
Speaker 2: For us, for me and you, Caitlin, and I can honestly say this, this person is the reason, maybe not the entire reason, but certainly a huge reason. Which of what why I am in do commentary and I have this podcast and I have taken it to loving this sport so much and done it in the media after finishing and not gonna get another job, is because this person supported me more than anybody I've ever known in my life in this industry of media and tennis. Then our great friend and one of the nicest, most loving, supportive, amazing people we've ever met in our lives, and that is Mary Carrillo, is going into the Tennis Hall of Fame as a contributor to the sport of tennis, and we could not be fucking happier. And I saw the announcement on Instagram today from Katrina Adams, our other great friend, and I literally it came after I was just happened to have the Hall of Fame came up on my Instagram and it was like Roger getting announced by Kim Cleisters and blah blah blah. And then the next slide I see Katrina Adams and Mary Carillo and I'm like, oh, oh, my god, and I started to cry because Mary Carillo is, without question, my just I just I've I just want to be Mary Carrilla. Yeah, I mean, I've wanted to be Mary since I stopped playing tennis.

00:31:12
Speaker 1: Mary Carillo is for me, the person I've wanted to be when I grew up, and to this day, the best person that I've outside of me, outside of Renee Steps that I that I've have had the privilege of spending time and space in the sport. She's somebody who is unapologetically embracing of the sport in always she is fearless about speaking truth to power, which truly, truly is among the most formidable things about her, because if you know anything about tennis, and this is probably not untrue in other sports as well, or you know politics, which is the world that I came from as a journalist before before starting Ragget, and like the amount of self dealing, self aggrandized, backstabbing, machinations, dummies in charge making very very uninformed decision. It's just it's rife with a bunch of amazing people, and it's rife with.

00:32:15
Speaker 2: A lot of I think you said it's self serving.

00:32:17
Speaker 1: It's rife with a lot of conflicts of interest and very few people. Everyone is disincentivized from talking about it, and a lot of people, even journalists that I know and some I even admire, have decided to pull their punches. And Mary has never been that person. He would rather, on principle, and we've seen it from her time and time and time again, lose her job, take herself out of contention from commentating a match involving a player who credibly accused by many of domestic abuse. She would rather take a knee as opposed to working for or with people she considers to be on the wrong side of history and morals. And I think all of the wonderful things you can say about Mary, her incredible commentary, her hilarious, heartfelt, knowledgeable and insightful journalism. That her record speaks for itself. But it's the part that I know and that you know that people don't necessarily see, which is that she's in the back rooms fighting the good fight, always, always, And so yeah, I couldn't be more excited. I'm contemplating just going up there and showing up for her and then just been like, well, my time here is done. Bye.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: I did talk to her this morning for and I did say that Mary, I just want to see your speech because it's going to be in going to be hilarious, it will be heartfelt. There were one hundred percent tiers from everybody that I.

00:33:43
Speaker 1: Soo when you meet people as talented as she is and don't get it twisted. Mary Crilla also has a Grand Slam to her name, which is one more Grand Slam than almost anybody else on the planet, by the way, winning a mixed doubles with John Ekron at the French I believe in seventy eight ers yesterday. Yes, so you know, not a shitty tennis player when you when you think of all the amazing things about you know, people who have really expanded our understanding the game, made so many doorways open. She made it fun. Yeah, she was just she's She's truly tremendous. And to me, she's one of the best commentators who's ever lived and.

00:34:18
Speaker 2: One of the greatest vices on the world.

00:34:21
Speaker 1: Feed yea more than I enjoy almost everyone on the main broadcast.

00:34:26
Speaker 2: And if Mary she does listen to our podcast from time to time, and I hope she listens to this one.

00:34:31
Speaker 1: And I'm going to.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: Make her because she's going to hate every lovely thing we're saying about her. She's going to want to throw herself off a building. But Mary, one thing you don't know about Mary is that Mary carries around these books of you know, like when you're at school and you there's certain those certain.

00:34:48
Speaker 1: Books that you carry around notebook thank you.

00:34:51
Speaker 2: I didn't go to school, And she has boxes and boxes and boxes, and I I hope that I actually will make this suggestion to her, and it probably won't happen, but one of the things that I would like to see go into the Hall of Fame is one of those books, oh her archives, because she You've never like Mary will get a story about someone and she'll write it in that in that book. And then she'll hear a story about someone else and she'll write in that book, and then she'll research something about them that she'll write it in that book. And then the match will get played and she'll write something in the book. And Mary is so old school with the journalistic and sort of commentators way of doing things that the things that are written in those books she's luis. She'll like, she'll have one with her and we'll be changed. Oh, listen to listen to this back in sevent you know, ninety five, and she'll click through the thing and she'll have some story that she's written down. She just she's an archives of her own, and it should be the Mary Carillo Archives would be very interesting.

00:35:51
Speaker 1: The international tennis of him. I will read her book. At one point offered to write her book. I say, doesn't need my help to write. She's a fantastic writer. But I think in conclusion, Mary Krillo is, if there are any justice in the world, would be truly in charge of the whole thing of it.

00:36:07
Speaker 2: She she's a mensch and we just we love her.

00:36:11
Speaker 1: Well. Congratulations, Mary will be there to celebrate you.

00:36:14
Speaker 2: We will be there with some bells. We'll bring some bells. One thing that was a little bit controversially about that didn't get in was one Martin del Potro did not get it, put in in his first ballot, which is interesting.

00:36:25
Speaker 1: He's fellow Argentine, Gabriella Sebertini. Yeah, got in with the same amount of slams. Yeah as he has.

00:36:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had Davis cupp and he has maybe also at the Olympics. But more controversial is the fact that Svetlana kuz Netzba didn't get in. She's like four, Like, what are we doing? Hey, are you guys voting on actual criteria? Because there are people in the Hall of Fame that won one Grand Slam, Michael Chang, Gabriellas Abertini, We've mentioned a.

00:36:49
Speaker 1: Few of them.

00:36:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not a slide on them because they were very important in their ears and very important with what they gave to tennis. But fuck, come on, I mean, is it because she's Russian? Maybe the only thing that I can think of, because Svetlana kus Netzeva has won two major titles in singles, won multiple doubles Grand slams, which should count. There are doubles players in the in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, and one fed Cup Billy Jean Cup many times for Russia, was the stalwart of that team for years.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: And has a really cool back tattoo.

00:37:24
Speaker 2: And fairly certain she's won medals at the Olympics. I should look that up.

00:37:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, she has.

00:37:29
Speaker 2: And you don't vote her into the Hall of Fame. What the fuck are we doing? Like, come on now. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted Raja on his own. If that's the case, don't nominate somebody else.

00:37:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true, because that is bullshit. Sorry, no, agree.

00:37:45
Speaker 2: Svetlana kuz Netzeva deserves to be in the Tennis Hall of Fame on her first ballot.

00:37:50
Speaker 1: Make drop, no disagreement.

00:37:52
Speaker 2: So and I get it. It's going to be all about Roger and it should be. And Mary Krillo at the hilarity of the fact that we did laugh about the fame that Mary is on the ballot with Roger, and she's just like, what are you gonna do it? But you know, it's sort of like perfect because they do. She deserves it and I'm sure she got it.

00:38:09
Speaker 1: She is the goat of what she does. Yeah, yeah, if anybody thinks of her as anything other than the main course, like, I don't know, get your head, jack.

00:38:18
Speaker 2: Mary and I do matches. We've worked a lot at the last four Olympics together and we have called many matches where I'm in one country and she's in another.

00:38:25
Speaker 1: Love that and.

00:38:26
Speaker 2: Mary is the most one of the things. I just I know we keep going on about Mary, but Mary's the most generous play by play person you could ever work with. And there are some play by people that talk a lot, that take a lot of the air. There's some that don't really do much research. Mary research the living daylights out of everything, and she's so good at stepping back and letting the analysts do their job. And she's an expert. She played. She's a very good player in her own right. So I just want to say I'm a little upset with the Hall of Fame that they didn't vote in Sveetlana.

00:38:55
Speaker 1: I think that I don't know who's doing the voting.

00:38:57
Speaker 2: I don't vote.

00:38:57
Speaker 1: Do you vote votes? I got to vote maybe a couple of years ago for on behalf of the media. But I think it must alternate because I don't know. I don't know if it'd.

00:39:09
Speaker 2: Say today, I was like, no offense, But how do I get a vote of as some random tennis writer. I'm in tennis media, I work on television, I have a podcast. I played, Well, why am I? Why are someone like me not getting a vote?

00:39:25
Speaker 1: Well?

00:39:25
Speaker 2: I didn't get that. I do need to ask my friends.

00:39:28
Speaker 1: I think, like a lot of this stuff, it's it's a opaque and hierarchical system that only benefits the people currently in power. And you saw what happened with the Academy Awards and the Golden Globes when they were revealed to be just like, very non diverse, very same same. I know that there's an International Tennis Writers Association that, as far as I know, doesn't.

00:39:57
Speaker 2: Do you think it's Caushi's Russian? I think probably I didn't want to have that controversy with Roger.

00:40:03
Speaker 1: No, I don't think there. I don't think. I don't think Russia is as controversial as it probably should be.

00:40:11
Speaker 2: And put their flags back as tennis players agreed.

00:40:14
Speaker 1: I don't think what are we doing? This form of protest is not really that useful, but I do think it's more recency bias and it's probably some old fashioned misogyny. Well, it's crazy.

00:40:25
Speaker 2: I should be in there too, like Spetlana Kuznetsova needs to be ahead of one Martin. I mean she wonted way more titles than he did, so anyway, and you know, she was the start of the Russians really doing really well too, you know.

00:40:40
Speaker 1: I mean there were Elena Dementi never won a.

00:40:43
Speaker 2: Grand Slam, true, uh, miss Skina one one prior to one of French Open, French Open, prior to Swetlanta. But Spetlana then, Swetlana really was the best Russian player, you know, when they've had some great other than Maria Sharapova, Yeah, sure so, and Marie after Atlanta. Really, you know, it's thought of about the same time, but a little bit. But Svetlana is the one that really was always in the mix win slams. So I'm a little disappointed in that one.

00:41:10
Speaker 1: But well, let's let's end on a positive note that actually in Newport, I was what were you doing?

00:41:15
Speaker 2: I went up there to work with the Tennis Hall of Fame and Gamebridge and Parody and a wonderful group of young women of all ages from about oh boy, I guess the youngest was probably like maybe seven or eight right through to like eighteen, and kids going to college, the girls going to college, and it was it was awesome.

00:41:42
Speaker 1: OK.

00:41:43
Speaker 2: I was on port with the kids, and then afterwards I did a like a talk, like a little bit of a not a ted talk, but like a fireside chat with them, and they were so great. These kids were awesome. I just want to give them all a shout out because I said I would, and they they're looking forward to hearing about it on the Pody Curse. I tell them that I would curse less on this podcast today.

00:42:07
Speaker 1: Have you cursed less?

00:42:08
Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you think?

00:42:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually there haven't been. There's been some sprinkling, but less like outbursts.

00:42:14
Speaker 2: Less outbursts. But Marguerite and all the coaches that I worked with up there were fantastic. They did such a good job with the girls. And I sat around after we played tennis and we did a nice little it's called their Tennis Fame event that they it's the first time I think, I believe they've done it, and they're just introducing people like me that have sort of have stories to tell and knowledge to give to the young women about life and about tennis. And I've had some amazing messages actually from a couple of the girls over the last few days. Some of them said some really lovely things at the end, and I'd.

00:42:51
Speaker 1: Say lovely things, really good. Those are the smart ones.

00:42:54
Speaker 2: I didn't say it, but a lot of the kids they were really thankful that I came up and did it. And I just want to shout out to the Tennis Wall of Fame and to all the the aforementioned people that I said, and they did a great job, and it's what a great you know, the kids are learning about life and that is so important, and tennis is such an amazing sport for life. Lessons about being able to let go of the past, being able to let go of a bad point. And you know, I was honest with a lot of the stories that I told them, and you know, one of the most important things in life is really to be authentic. And I felt like I was with the kids and they.

00:43:27
Speaker 1: Were, yeah, you're good with kids.

00:43:29
Speaker 2: They were awesome, and I just want to give them a big shout out. So thanks for having me up there. Marguerite and crew and all the coaches. They were awesome.

00:43:37
Speaker 1: So that's kay.

00:43:38
Speaker 2: Where were you? You're in New Orleans.

00:43:39
Speaker 1: I took Peter, my son to New Orleans. Our friend, some family friends were there. The dad was filming a movie with Master P Wow. While our kids were eating pizza and watching anime in the hotel. We nipped out and went to the set, which was a New Orleans strip club.

00:43:57
Speaker 2: Wow. And then this is a little different to my enter up to rhighte On Island.

00:44:01
Speaker 1: And then I was like, hey, so where's mister P. You know, I'm a big fan of No Limit Records obviously, and the dad was like, oh, well, the start of the show is coming. Just hold tight, and in walks Tiffany Hattish, what who gives the you did? Tell me?

00:44:16
Speaker 2: You had an.

00:44:17
Speaker 1: Incredible monologue as the proprietor of the strip club. This movie is filming now New Orleans. It is awesome. It turns out all of New Orleans knows about this movie. And I was going in blind and maybe if you know, I play my cards right my shoulder, the left side of my left shoulder will be visible for millim seconds. While Tifnany Hatish was giving her a big spiel.

00:44:45
Speaker 2: Oh, great.

00:44:45
Speaker 1: We love Tiffany Haddish, so she's fantastic and her last big her first big breakthrough movie was in New Orleans with The Girls Trip, So I had no idea I was about to see her, and then she comes in and commands the room. I love it anyway, different than your weekend, but similar, really fun and engaging.

00:45:02
Speaker 2: Happy to Yeah, and can I just say, it's the first time I've ever been to the Tennis Hall of Fame.

00:45:06
Speaker 1: Oh, it's really beautiful.

00:45:07
Speaker 2: It's gorgeous.

00:45:07
Speaker 1: Sports are great.

00:45:08
Speaker 2: Oh my god, they were. I walked in, I went great.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: Man.

00:45:11
Speaker 2: I would have loved to have played here back in the day.

00:45:13
Speaker 1: The grass is really good.

00:45:14
Speaker 2: Unfortunately it was when I was playing. It was all There was a men's event, not a women's and I would have crushed.

00:45:18
Speaker 1: It there, but you would have. This year was the first year they had men and women. Yeah, this past year. It was great and they got a good turnout as they deserved. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to go up there with you to celebrate our friend Mary Rilla, to whom this episode is dedicated.

00:45:30
Speaker 2: We dedicate this to the one and only Mary. Well. Guys, thanks for joining us this week and we'll talk to you next week. What are we going to talk about next week?

00:45:40
Speaker 1: Tennis will still be going in somewhere. Sorry, okay, we'll talk about that.

00:45:43
Speaker 2: Bye everybody, Thanks,