Inside Out 2: The Impact of Anxiety

<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster
<v Speaker 1>movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and
<v Speaker 1>I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.
<v Speaker 2>Ben Stover, individual therapist.
<v Speaker 1>Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're all licensed clinical
<v Speaker 1>professional counselors also known as therapists who practice out of Chicago.
<v Speaker 1>Even though we are licensed mental health professionals, this podcast
<v Speaker 1>is purely for entertainment purposes and to fulfill our love
<v Speaker 1>of dissecting pop culture and all forms.
<v Speaker 2>Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,
<v Speaker 2>we aren't your therapist.
<v Speaker 3>If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find
<v Speaker 3>a local mental health provider.
<v Speaker 1>Welcome. So today we are going to talk about Insight
<v Speaker 1>Out too. Even though this movie came out last year,
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty four, I feel like we've gotten many,
<v Speaker 1>many requests to do it.
<v Speaker 2>We certainly have absolutely.
<v Speaker 1>Dropped people were asking us to do it, So we're
<v Speaker 1>finally doing.
<v Speaker 2>It because we're happy to oblige.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And as soon as I saw in theaters, I thought,
<v Speaker 1>oh oh yeah, oh yeah.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, as soon as we saw the trailer, we knew.
<v Speaker 1>Oh for sure. Yeah, absolutely, Like.
<v Speaker 2>An episode is coming, no doubt.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so we will be exploring sense of self
<v Speaker 1>and anxiety today as anxiety is the new main character
<v Speaker 1>of Inside Out Too, because basically what the movie is
<v Speaker 1>about is our main character, Riley, starts to edge into
<v Speaker 1>adulthood because she's leaving middle school right yep, And with
<v Speaker 1>that becomes puberty, and with that becomes more complicated motions.
<v Speaker 1>So she gets anxiety on we embarrassment and envy, envy
<v Speaker 1>and nostalgia. Well, nostalgia's coming too early. Yeah, she gotta
<v Speaker 1>go back in the closet. But yeah, so we will
<v Speaker 1>be touching upon, like we said, sense of self and
<v Speaker 1>anxiety as those are the two main hitters that are
<v Speaker 1>discussed in this movie, because this movie pretty much starts
<v Speaker 1>with the development of that idea. That's the thing that
<v Speaker 1>gets introduced right in the beginning of this movie is
<v Speaker 1>now that it Riley's older, she's developing her sense of self,
<v Speaker 1>which is this how would you describe it?
<v Speaker 2>A trophy kind.
<v Speaker 1>Of it's like a little light squiggle, yeah, in the
<v Speaker 1>middle of her film.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but like one of the fancy filaments you'd see
<v Speaker 2>at a fancy restaurant.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's still pretty I guess one dimensional, you
<v Speaker 1>would say her sense of self, and that it's at
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of the movie. It's still made up by
<v Speaker 1>the basic emotions that we met in the first movie.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, still made by the more simple, basic right brain emotions.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm a good person, I'm a good friend, very
<v Speaker 1>basic ideas.
<v Speaker 2>Which is normal for kids. It's not until after ten
<v Speaker 2>that they really start to develop that more complicated sense
<v Speaker 2>of self in the first place.
<v Speaker 1>Like we said, like puberty gets are introduced into this movie,
<v Speaker 1>which immediately complicates her sense of self.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, immediately, as as soon as we start developing into
<v Speaker 2>a little mini version of an adult that can perceive
<v Speaker 2>that there are in fact consequences to our actions and
<v Speaker 2>things aren't so easy anymore. We really have to start
<v Speaker 2>digesting a whole lot more information on a whole lot
<v Speaker 2>more levels. And it gets hard really fast.
<v Speaker 1>Because she's at this age where you're thinking, it gets
<v Speaker 1>more sophisticated, and like you said, Ben, you're more aware
<v Speaker 1>of everything around you, how other people perceive you. There's
<v Speaker 1>just a lot more like I don't know, like what
<v Speaker 1>I really like in the beginning of this movie is
<v Speaker 1>when they're looking at her islands m h and they're
<v Speaker 1>like family islands still there, but it's teeny tiny and
<v Speaker 1>it's being blocked by friend island, which is huge.
<v Speaker 2>Yep.
<v Speaker 1>And that's such a good almost like foreshadowing absolutely in
<v Speaker 1>this movie, where once you hit this age, you're just
<v Speaker 1>very aware of the opinions of others outside of your
<v Speaker 1>family system and get very influenced by the opinions of
<v Speaker 1>others outside of your family system. Because we see a
<v Speaker 1>Riley at the beginning who's very securely attached, thinking she's
<v Speaker 1>a good person and all those things. Is because she
<v Speaker 1>does have a fairly simple, secure relationship to her parents.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, their relationship seems really solid and comfortable most of
<v Speaker 2>the time, but we do see the emergence of some moods.
<v Speaker 3>It's really interesting because I feel like I can remember
<v Speaker 3>being thirteen and feeling all of the emotions at once,
<v Speaker 3>like when everything gets really messed up as soon as
<v Speaker 3>the puberty board kind of shows up and the demolition
<v Speaker 3>the demolition happens, and how she goes from feeling all
<v Speaker 3>these different emotions because and then her sense of self
<v Speaker 3>is ripped off, and that's bananas, And it just made
<v Speaker 3>me think of feeling that exact thing, of feeling so
<v Speaker 3>uncertain of how to communicate what was going on with me,
<v Speaker 3>and feeling overwhelmed, feeling overwhelmed, and feeling like my feelings
<v Speaker 3>are so big I don't know what to do with them.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I've ever once wished to go back
<v Speaker 2>to thirteen years old. No, never, have you, guys ever
<v Speaker 2>had a client say I really wish I could go
<v Speaker 2>back to junior high.
<v Speaker 1>No.
<v Speaker 3>I think for most of the clients I work with,
<v Speaker 3>middle school was horrible.
<v Speaker 2>I think for everyone, ever, middle school is horrible, especially
<v Speaker 2>in that transition time we see Riley at where you're
<v Speaker 2>realizing your friends are going to go to different schools
<v Speaker 2>and you're alone and you're trying to fit in with
<v Speaker 2>the older kids who you are suddenly realizing are so
<v Speaker 2>much older than you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because in the first movie, right, we watch her
<v Speaker 1>come to this place where she realizes you can have
<v Speaker 1>more than just happy feelings, right, that you can have
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of feelings. And in this movie we're seeing
<v Speaker 1>her realize that even if you're a good person and
<v Speaker 1>a good friend and you do things right, sometimes things
<v Speaker 1>still don't work out right. And I feel like that
<v Speaker 1>can be such a big introduction of anxiety, as we'll
<v Speaker 1>talk about later, which is that confronting idea that you
<v Speaker 1>only have so much control over the world around you
<v Speaker 1>and how that impacts well, as we're gonna talk about
<v Speaker 1>your belief system, and like that moment in the movie
<v Speaker 1>when they're in the car going to camp and she
<v Speaker 1>clocks her friend making that squishy face like the elevens
<v Speaker 1>between her eyebrows and she's like what, And I think
<v Speaker 1>how to pulse this idea that things sometimes don't work.
<v Speaker 2>Out and sometimes messing with them more makes them work
<v Speaker 2>out worse. Sometimes the more you do just screws everything up.
<v Speaker 2>The harder you try.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's why fit. That's one of my
<v Speaker 1>notes for later about how anxiety makes you act bonkers,
<v Speaker 1>Like you get in your head and then you start like, well,
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what to do with my hands kind
<v Speaker 1>of energy, which.
<v Speaker 3>Is something you've probably never thought about until that first
<v Speaker 3>time you think about it. It's like the first time
<v Speaker 3>it pops into your head again, that growing that awareness
<v Speaker 3>automatically that we're being perceived in this completely different way
<v Speaker 3>that we've never been perceived before.
<v Speaker 1>I've never felt being perceived, because there's a really great
<v Speaker 1>moment in the beginning of the movie when she's at
<v Speaker 1>the first hockey game, and if I remember in correctly,
<v Speaker 1>she's kind of stuck in this moment of like trying
<v Speaker 1>to figure out what to do, like should I take
<v Speaker 1>the shot or should I throw it to Grace so
<v Speaker 1>that she can score? And you can see her in
<v Speaker 1>that moment, go to her sense of self, go to
<v Speaker 1>like her collective, authentic self and find groundedness in who
<v Speaker 1>she is to make that decision and how that makes
<v Speaker 1>her feel so secure and how it makes you trust
<v Speaker 1>yourself and part of what's getting introduced to her in
<v Speaker 1>this movie, can you trust yourself? Does that even get
<v Speaker 1>you what you want to? It's like it is this
<v Speaker 1>like cracking of feeling like you can trust yourself and
<v Speaker 1>be secure in yourself and that your belief system allows
<v Speaker 1>you to be secure in yourself.
<v Speaker 2>It's the cracking of the egocentrism. Yeah, right. Kids see
<v Speaker 2>the world through their own lens. They can't perceive the
<v Speaker 2>world through other people's eyes. They really need adults to
<v Speaker 2>prompt them to do that. They really just see through
<v Speaker 2>what they think, what they feel. I decided it so
<v Speaker 2>obviously that's the way it's going to go because everything
<v Speaker 2>that I'm going to do works, and.
<v Speaker 1>Also because Joy's doing that thing where she's shoving all
<v Speaker 1>the bad thoughts into the back of her mind.
<v Speaker 2>M hm.
<v Speaker 1>So Joy is also doing that thing that you can
<v Speaker 1>do more at that age, which is just kind of
<v Speaker 1>like put bad things, blink them out. And then as
<v Speaker 1>we see over the course of this movie, which I
<v Speaker 1>do love that Joy has to learn this lesson again, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>which is that it can't all be positive. No, it
<v Speaker 1>can't all be things are good and secure. That's not realistic,
<v Speaker 1>and there's going to be a expiration date on being
<v Speaker 1>able to push things back, and we see it in
<v Speaker 1>this movie.
<v Speaker 2>Which I love about both of these. It is brilliant
<v Speaker 2>writing and directing and clearly consulted with mental health people
<v Speaker 2>and neuropsychologists about how does our brain work, how do
<v Speaker 2>we develop, and how does this change? Because understanding how
<v Speaker 2>rapidly change starts to happen in between ten and fourteen
<v Speaker 2>and then again from fourteen to seventeen is really important
<v Speaker 2>to what this movie is illustrating so beautifully.
<v Speaker 1>And I think another great display of that with her
<v Speaker 1>sense of self is when she starts shitting on that
<v Speaker 1>band she likes Yep later in the movie, and it
<v Speaker 1>makes that island crumble because the sark what they call
<v Speaker 1>them like aasm, a sarcasm, and I talk across the
<v Speaker 1>sarcasm and it mistranslates what they're trying to say with
<v Speaker 1>the tone. But it made me feel sad like watching
<v Speaker 1>that part, because I'm like, Oh, the way that we
<v Speaker 1>will destroy parts of ourselves when we are that age
<v Speaker 1>to seem cool to other people, and how we are
<v Speaker 1>getting like a visual on this movie of this girl
<v Speaker 1>in real time destroying parts of herself that she genuinely
<v Speaker 1>likes or liked to seem a type way to other people.
<v Speaker 1>And it's so heart wrenching. This movie really like stabs
<v Speaker 1>me in the heart a few times.
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And that's something that I feel like parents get
<v Speaker 3>really worried about. Right when parents start to see that
<v Speaker 3>a kid is starting to dress different or act different
<v Speaker 3>or look different, they start to get really worried that
<v Speaker 3>their kid is doing something that they don't really want
<v Speaker 3>to do. They just want to be cool, and so
<v Speaker 3>they'll destroy anything about themselves. So I feel like sometimes
<v Speaker 3>parents also respond to big to some of the changes
<v Speaker 3>that a thirteen year old ten to thirteen year old
<v Speaker 3>does yeah, and then they're in their own anxiety.
<v Speaker 2>Right, did Disney posters start to come down and upstart
<v Speaker 2>the music posters, the punk rock or the rap or
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is.
<v Speaker 3>The anime or any of the horror movies, horror movies you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, yeah, black lights.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, going to hot topic absolutely well, because it's a
<v Speaker 1>sad thing, right, I'm sure it's a very sad thing
<v Speaker 1>to observe. You're not there yet, Ben, but I'm sure
<v Speaker 1>it's a very sad thing to observe your child, who
<v Speaker 1>a child like Riley, who is so comfortable in what
<v Speaker 1>they like and so authentic and vulnerable to watch them
<v Speaker 1>do that to themselves at that age because we as
<v Speaker 1>adults know what they're doing while they're doing it. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure it Like that's heartbreaking.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Ava's largely out of the princess phase. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and she's turning seven next month and she's already kind
<v Speaker 2>of like eh princesses. Nah, She's into Barbie, she's into
<v Speaker 2>Harry Potter, she's got Taylor's Swift stickers all over her bed. Oh,
<v Speaker 2>and I mean Taylor is thirty five now, like Taylor's
<v Speaker 2>writing grown woman music now, I mean Ava's discovering, you know,
<v Speaker 2>the wide range of it, but rating from like that
<v Speaker 2>kiddie country to where she's at now, which is grown
<v Speaker 2>ass woman. And it is sad watching that, Like, but
<v Speaker 2>what happened to the little girl that liked Elsa? And
<v Speaker 2>she's like, Elsa's for babies.
<v Speaker 3>That's it, that's the that's the sentence for babies. It's
<v Speaker 3>for babies. And once it's for babies, it's never for
<v Speaker 3>me because I'm not a baby.
<v Speaker 2>Anymore until for Rousten three comes out then then it'll
<v Speaker 2>be fine again.
<v Speaker 1>But I would imagine though, at this age like this,
<v Speaker 1>like thirteen preteen age, when you watch your kid kind
<v Speaker 1>of like make fun of themselves, like demoralize themselves, Like
<v Speaker 1>that's a little different than just growing out of stuff. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I would say it probably feels really brutal as a
<v Speaker 1>parent to watch your kid do a version of what
<v Speaker 1>she does on the couch with the other older girls.
<v Speaker 1>And it is kind of cool that her friends Grayson Brie, yeah, yes,
<v Speaker 1>Grayson Bree call her ass out.
<v Speaker 2>Well.
<v Speaker 1>I feel like when I was that age, I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if I could have been that that authentic in
<v Speaker 1>front of all those girls, the older girls like if
<v Speaker 1>my friend was making fun of thing that we like together,
<v Speaker 1>and the older girls were kind of giving them positive feedback.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I could then double down, but
<v Speaker 1>I still like that band, you know. I think that
<v Speaker 1>says a lot about where her friends are at with
<v Speaker 1>their sense of self. Yeah, uherable being like, no, we
<v Speaker 1>like that. You fucking lie her, You're being a bitch.
<v Speaker 2>But they're also in the context of this film, those
<v Speaker 2>two are staying together.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true. They're not as unsettled, right.
<v Speaker 2>They're unsettled about knowing they have a secret, but Riley's
<v Speaker 2>unsettled when she learns the secret of learning, she'll be alone. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>so she's trying to attach to new people and the
<v Speaker 2>cool older kids because she's feeling lost.
<v Speaker 1>You're bringing up a great point, which is that the
<v Speaker 1>belief that they keep talking about in the beginning of
<v Speaker 1>the movie is I am a good friend and so yeah,
<v Speaker 1>with her two close friends leaving her, and especially because
<v Speaker 1>she's only lived in San Francisco for a few years, right, Yes,
<v Speaker 1>that that is her core identity, is her as a friend.
<v Speaker 1>So you're right, like them leaving Friend Island is crumbling
<v Speaker 1>and there's nothing there yet, so she's trying in real
<v Speaker 1>time to like build up or like reinforce Friend Island
<v Speaker 1>for later and hockey. Yeah, that's true too, you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, I know the movie highlights I'm a Good friend
<v Speaker 2>over and over is that core message. So you're absolutely right,
<v Speaker 2>But they the theme of these movies too, has always been
<v Speaker 2>she's a good hockey player, and she's connecting and identifying
<v Speaker 2>with the older hockey players too. So I feel like
<v Speaker 2>those two ideas are struggling for her, or she's struggling
<v Speaker 2>with those two a figure like which one do I
<v Speaker 2>attach to? Am I a good friend to these people
<v Speaker 2>that are going to be going to a different school,
<v Speaker 2>or do I need to be a good hockey player
<v Speaker 2>and attached to the better older kid hockey players and
<v Speaker 2>be a good friend to them, Which is exactly that
<v Speaker 2>kind of complicated feeling a thirteen year old isn't going
<v Speaker 2>to navigate correctly because they don't know what to do
<v Speaker 2>with you, and they don't.
<v Speaker 1>Have the wisdom yet to navigate that situation that.
<v Speaker 2>It's okay for me to like this and that.
<v Speaker 1>Or even that this isn't an emergency, right, that you
<v Speaker 1>don't have to figure this out in the three days
<v Speaker 1>that is hockey camp.
<v Speaker 4>And if you don't figure out these three days, your
<v Speaker 4>whole life is fucked. Like you're just life is over
<v Speaker 4>for you, everything over, high school ruined.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I feel like we're starting to edge into anxiety.
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything else you want to say about sense
<v Speaker 1>of self?
<v Speaker 3>I think the only thing I wanted to say about
<v Speaker 3>sense of self that I haven't had a chance to
<v Speaker 3>say is something that I talk a lot to my
<v Speaker 3>clients about is that our belief system has been made
<v Speaker 3>over time, and so the things that you believed at
<v Speaker 3>different times, that's what sticks to your brain. So like
<v Speaker 3>the I'm a good friend, right, and then all the
<v Speaker 3>thoughts that, all the little memories that have to do
<v Speaker 3>with that go into a certain place. And something that
<v Speaker 3>I work with people a lot on is these are
<v Speaker 3>old You have a lot of old beliefs that have
<v Speaker 3>compounded over time with all these other new emotions, and
<v Speaker 3>that is what in some ways, that's what we're that's
<v Speaker 3>what we have to help change. Oh for sure, the
<v Speaker 3>way that sense of self connects down to your belief system,
<v Speaker 3>the way that those beliefs can create your reality Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>and then you're only reacting to all of these old,
<v Speaker 3>complicated beliefs instead of what's literally happening in front of you.
<v Speaker 2>Correct, because reality is based on perception, and to build
<v Speaker 2>off what Hannah is saying here is helping people understand
<v Speaker 2>that earlier sense of self identity formations are made off
<v Speaker 2>experiences we have when our left side of our brain,
<v Speaker 2>where our prefrontal cortex is, is not fully online until
<v Speaker 2>we're ten, and it grows from there as we get older,
<v Speaker 2>So that means older things are much much more rooted
<v Speaker 2>in basic, simple emotions like the ones we're introduced to
<v Speaker 2>in the first film, and watching this movie show how
<v Speaker 2>incredibly important it is to expand upon those and let
<v Speaker 2>them grow our sense of self as our neurological capabilities grow,
<v Speaker 2>but also look back and recognize I may need to
<v Speaker 2>reframe some of these with new information, and it's okay
<v Speaker 2>to do so without damaging my sense of self and
<v Speaker 2>giving up everything that means something to me.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's always interesting working with even like adult clients,
<v Speaker 1>where when you start doing that belief tracking like thought records,
<v Speaker 1>irrational belief stuff, how often the belief is rooted in
<v Speaker 1>something that we're talking about like something very young and
<v Speaker 1>very simple. I am bad, i am stupid, I'm not
<v Speaker 1>good enough. Yeah, what she thinks in the movie good enough,
<v Speaker 1>And how those things will still that's still what you
<v Speaker 1>can travel down and find when you're working on these things,
<v Speaker 1>because you were, like you were saying, Hannah, when I'm
<v Speaker 1>working with people and I use things like thought record
<v Speaker 1>and they have to like track you know what happened,
<v Speaker 1>What did it make me feel? And then what belief
<v Speaker 1>does it connect to and does it actually rationally have
<v Speaker 1>something to do with actually what's happening in front of me,
<v Speaker 1>or I am pulling that belief forward and pushing it
<v Speaker 1>into the situation. So if my friend rolls their eyes
<v Speaker 1>at me, if I see my friend roll their eyes
<v Speaker 1>or my partner roll their eyes, am I letting that stimuli,
<v Speaker 1>that information go right down to nobody likes me, or
<v Speaker 1>I'm not good enough or everyone's mad at me all
<v Speaker 1>the time. And sometimes when I do thought records with
<v Speaker 1>especially with adults, it can feel a little embarrassing how
<v Speaker 1>simplistic those beliefs are because they are so simple and young. Yep,
<v Speaker 1>And that part it can feel it's very vulnerable to
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh, it's like just keeps coming back to
<v Speaker 1>this very simple young idea.
<v Speaker 2>That is why in EMDR work we do what's called
<v Speaker 2>the float back, and we start with wherever that perception
<v Speaker 2>is right, what's the present stimuli that made you feel
<v Speaker 2>that way, what's the situation, what happened, and then you
<v Speaker 2>start walking them back to connect to that roof sensory feeling.
<v Speaker 2>Like I keep a feelings wheel out on the table
<v Speaker 2>in my office. That's one of the more complicated ones
<v Speaker 2>that has the more expansive words in the outer rungs
<v Speaker 2>and the simple basic emotions in the middle. And I
<v Speaker 2>think I'm going to modify it actually to put a
<v Speaker 2>black and white safe.
<v Speaker 1>Oh in the very very middle in the very very.
<v Speaker 2>Middle, because I've never seen one of those before, and
<v Speaker 2>I really feel like that's the message I want to
<v Speaker 2>communicate to people, is this is the way we always
<v Speaker 2>think about everything. It's not optional. Your brain perceives sensory
<v Speaker 2>information sight, sound, smell, touch, right, and everything goes in
<v Speaker 2>to the right side of our brain first, weighed first
<v Speaker 2>against is it safe, then to the simple emotions. Then
<v Speaker 2>our left side of a brain starts analyzing it and
<v Speaker 2>can assign bigger, more complicated words to it. But first
<v Speaker 2>you go, am I safe? Do I need to be mad, sad, happy,
<v Speaker 2>et cetera? About this disgusted? Then to well, I mean,
<v Speaker 2>do I feel kind of okay with this? Is this
<v Speaker 2>make me feel a little down? You can start making
<v Speaker 2>more complicated connections.
<v Speaker 1>We'll create more nuance and emotional expression, right like I
<v Speaker 1>am I frustrated? Or am I disappointed? Am I annoyed?
<v Speaker 1>Or am I enraged?
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Thank you, that's a way better way of consolidating
<v Speaker 2>that point. Thank you.
<v Speaker 1>I used to teach this a lot to little kids,
<v Speaker 1>and they used to love enraged when they learned it
<v Speaker 1>is like the biggest way you can be angry. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>they got enraged a lot after I teach them that word.
<v Speaker 2>Of course they did. But looking at how we run
<v Speaker 2>everything through right brain first always is critical because when
<v Speaker 2>you do float backs, whether it's EMDR or any other
<v Speaker 2>technique that focuses on these ideas, is recognizing it's all
<v Speaker 2>going to go back to this simple, simple, simple shit first,
<v Speaker 2>no matter what you do, and that's going to connect
<v Speaker 2>to older, raw, bigger emotions because people aren't ever more
<v Speaker 2>than that at their core. They can't be We need
<v Speaker 2>to know simple basic information and then we can assign
<v Speaker 2>more expansive language to it later to figure out shades
<v Speaker 2>and nuance of what feeling is it.
<v Speaker 3>Let's move on to anxiety, which is the second star
<v Speaker 3>of this movie.
<v Speaker 1>All R Let's take a break, care and we'll be
<v Speaker 1>right back. So anxiety. This movie really does a great
<v Speaker 1>job of portraying anxiety. And I mean that in the
<v Speaker 1>most insulted way possible to myself. When I watch this
<v Speaker 1>movie and they were doing anxiety, I was like.
<v Speaker 5>Oh, Brittany was We saw it together and Brittany was
<v Speaker 5>squirming in her seeds most of the time, especially around
<v Speaker 5>the belief system stuff.
<v Speaker 1>It's just really good. Yeah, yeah, it is really good.
<v Speaker 2>You're right go ahead watching her pluck the little discordant
<v Speaker 2>strings that complicate everything with like, oh, we're not just good,
<v Speaker 2>we also need to be afraid we're going to ruin everything.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think when anxiety well, what I like most
<v Speaker 1>about the portrayal of anxiety is that it's introduced as
<v Speaker 1>a helpful concept. It does a really good job of
<v Speaker 1>selling itself as a purely functional emotion, and that their
<v Speaker 1>job is to like they say things like I plan
<v Speaker 1>for the future, I help us be prepared. That the
<v Speaker 1>selling point that they're making to the other emotions at
<v Speaker 1>the beginning is like, I know what's up, and I'm
<v Speaker 1>gonna help us know what's up, which I think is
<v Speaker 1>exactly what I say to clients, which is that anxiety
<v Speaker 1>is an emotion that's wearing a trench coat pretending it
<v Speaker 1>is just a really smart problem solver, but it is
<v Speaker 1>an emotion. Yes, that's pretending it's not an emotion.
<v Speaker 2>Yep. This is what I walk through with people all
<v Speaker 2>the time. I don't know if i've said on the
<v Speaker 2>podcast before the metaphor I have for it, but I
<v Speaker 2>describe anxiety as a little creature that sits in your
<v Speaker 2>head writing out plans.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I think it as the muse and X monster.
<v Speaker 2>Maybe, I mean, if that's what you think about it. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I try not to say it's a little guy sitting
<v Speaker 2>inside your head.
<v Speaker 1>Writing plans, plotting and scheming.
<v Speaker 2>Plotting and scheming, but that's basically what it is. It's
<v Speaker 2>this little creature that sits in your head and writes
<v Speaker 2>up a detailed response plan, a battle plan to absolutely
<v Speaker 2>every possible scenario you can think of. But my favorite
<v Speaker 2>question to ask people is what do you do with
<v Speaker 2>all of the plans that created that you never used.
<v Speaker 2>And they usually get eyes wide and go like, oh
<v Speaker 2>my god, it's hoarding. Oh in my head, yes, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>it's hoarding. It's keeping stuff that you don't need and
<v Speaker 2>will never need, with the idea that because you thought
<v Speaker 2>of it, you are now safer.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And I think it's just a good job of
<v Speaker 1>introducing anxiety as this problem solver, as this person that
<v Speaker 1>thinks that collecting all this information and doing all this
<v Speaker 1>what we call catastrophizing, is smart. And then also with
<v Speaker 1>the juxtaposition of how it anxiety starts treating joy and
<v Speaker 1>the other feelings like you don't know what you're doing.
<v Speaker 1>It reminds me a lot of people that are high
<v Speaker 1>functioning anxious people and how they will own over value
<v Speaker 1>their anxiety as why they are successful yep, or why
<v Speaker 1>they can do all the things they're doing, and that
<v Speaker 1>they need their anxiety to be successful and productive, and
<v Speaker 1>will kind of give me the same arguments that anxiety
<v Speaker 1>is giving to the other fromotions, which is no, no, no, no no,
<v Speaker 1>you are just like silly, stupid optimists, And it's not smart.
<v Speaker 2>To not be anxious because if you're not afraid, you're
<v Speaker 2>not paying attention.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're being a silly, stupid, happy person.
<v Speaker 2>Which is ridiculous because you should be constantly on guard
<v Speaker 2>and prepared for all the things that could possibly go wrong,
<v Speaker 2>because you don't dare want to be caught flat footed
<v Speaker 2>and thinking there was something else you could have done
<v Speaker 2>to prevent this from being a catastrophe, which is both
<v Speaker 2>true and not true, which makes anxiety such an asshole
<v Speaker 2>of a disorder, because normal anxiety is good. It's the
<v Speaker 2>thing that lives in between perceiving a threat and resolving it.
<v Speaker 2>You need it. You need to be uncomfortable with something
<v Speaker 2>that is dangerous to you, whether it's dangerous socially dangerous,
<v Speaker 2>physically dangerous financially, you should probably be uncomfortable enough that
<v Speaker 2>you make a change that resolves the issue. The problem
<v Speaker 2>was when it becomes a disorder is it's not functioning
<v Speaker 2>correctly anymore. It doesn't let go.
<v Speaker 1>Well because anxiety is supposed to be part of the team.
<v Speaker 1>Anxiety is supposed to be at the same level as
<v Speaker 1>all the other emotions. And this movie is showing what
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about, which is when you have like generalized
<v Speaker 1>anxiety disorder, and anxiety is running the show, and anxiety
<v Speaker 1>is making all the decisions or the primary decisions, the
<v Speaker 1>primary decision maker.
<v Speaker 2>And it's cloting up your brain.
<v Speaker 1>That it does not work well.
<v Speaker 2>Nope. In fact, it makes you less likely to be
<v Speaker 2>successful because you're going to be amped up because the
<v Speaker 2>more anxious you get, the higher your stress meter goes.
<v Speaker 2>And your stress meter only goes from zero to ten.
<v Speaker 2>And at eight nine ten, none of us function well
<v Speaker 2>because our other more simple emotions start kicking on and
<v Speaker 2>do what they're supposed to do. Anger starts breaking shit.
<v Speaker 2>I'm just so stressed up, throw and it can't see it.
<v Speaker 2>It can't see that being that nervous, stressed on guard
<v Speaker 2>actually makes you less able to use the whole team
<v Speaker 2>in the ways you're supposed to. When I think about
<v Speaker 2>the Little Creature writing battle plans, I always always pair
<v Speaker 2>it with the quote from Colin poul that no battle
<v Speaker 2>plan survives contact with the enemy ever, which is important
<v Speaker 2>to understand. No matter how well you plan out every
<v Speaker 2>step of this, if that's what you think is going
<v Speaker 2>to happen, you're going to lock into that and not
<v Speaker 2>be able to adaptively, to respond strategically and authentically to
<v Speaker 2>whatever changes happen. You're going to be constantly trying to
<v Speaker 2>shoehorn a solution into chaos, and it's not going to work.
<v Speaker 2>You need to be able to just instinctively respond to
<v Speaker 2>whatever's going on, because your instincts will take over and
<v Speaker 2>take care of you. But anxiety never ever believes that.
<v Speaker 1>Well, anxiety is distrustful, which serves a function when it's
<v Speaker 1>part of the team, right, Like, anxiety is the part
<v Speaker 1>of you that's supposed to be like ooh, like red
<v Speaker 1>flag there, or hey, like what's that thing happening over there?
<v Speaker 1>Like it's supposed to bring your attention to something that
<v Speaker 1>maybe you shouldn't trust, correct And when it is so
<v Speaker 1>full blown like this, you don't trust anything, including and
<v Speaker 1>sometimes especially yourself, because, as we're saying, like in the
<v Speaker 1>beginning of this movie, Riley is very grounded in her
<v Speaker 1>sense of self. She's very grounded in what she likes
<v Speaker 1>and what she's good at and who she is. And
<v Speaker 1>so when anxiety is pumping at full throttle like this,
<v Speaker 1>you don't even trust yourself. And because you don't trust yourself,
<v Speaker 1>you can't relax into your instincts, into your body, into
<v Speaker 1>how you move your body. Like even the scene where
<v Speaker 1>she's walking behind them and she's like, how do my
<v Speaker 1>arms move her hands? What you do with her hands? Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and she's like trying to do what the other girls
<v Speaker 1>are doing. That's such a good example of how, like
<v Speaker 1>anxiety you will get into your head to such a
<v Speaker 1>degree that you don't even know how to like move
<v Speaker 1>your body normal or move your body in a way
<v Speaker 1>that is natural to you, because you don't even trust
<v Speaker 1>yourself to like know what you should be doing, which.
<v Speaker 2>Just causes you to be the awkwardest awkward turtle I know,
<v Speaker 2>which is what she was. Watching her with the older
<v Speaker 2>girls was just painful.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the many many well, every part where anxiety takes over,
<v Speaker 1>and like when she's talking to the girl in the beginning,
<v Speaker 1>she's like, sorry, I go, your phone's taken away. Every
<v Speaker 1>moment is like cringe City on purpose, obviously, but it
<v Speaker 1>just yeah, makes yourself self doubting and also makes you
<v Speaker 1>do what you see what we see you're doing the movie,
<v Speaker 1>which is looking outside of yourself for the correct answer.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hm, Like if I just know what's in the
<v Speaker 1>coach's notebook, if I just know what the other girl
<v Speaker 1>are thinking about me, if I just copy what they like,
<v Speaker 1>then that's the right answer. Like I can't trust my
<v Speaker 1>internal compass, so I have to go outside with it.
<v Speaker 1>But because it's external, it's always going to be weird.
<v Speaker 3>I think that's one of the meanest parts of anxiety,
<v Speaker 3>is the fact that it undermines your sense of self
<v Speaker 3>and it undermines your ability to trust yourself. And I
<v Speaker 3>think that's one of the meanest parts because that really
<v Speaker 3>shakes up every decision that somebody makes, especially when anxiety
<v Speaker 3>is running the whole console. What I thought was really
<v Speaker 3>interesting was how how I feel like all the ways
<v Speaker 3>that they portrayed her in terms of like with the
<v Speaker 3>walking and with the when whenever she's with the older girls,
<v Speaker 3>all of those experiences, I feel like I've seen those
<v Speaker 3>things happen. I've watched kids do that stuff, or I
<v Speaker 3>was one of the kids who did that stuff.
<v Speaker 1>I was one of the right whatever.
<v Speaker 3>We were all so exactly exactly, all just trying so
<v Speaker 3>hard to figure out how to fit in with other people.
<v Speaker 1>When she puts that red in her hair, I could
<v Speaker 1>like die from secondhand embarrassment. Like that's what I mean
<v Speaker 1>when I say anxiety is a scam artist. Trying to
<v Speaker 1>trick you into thinking that it's being rational. It's like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>if I just put this road in my hair and
<v Speaker 1>match the other girls, that'll fix all these problems.
<v Speaker 2>I'll fit in, they'll accept me.
<v Speaker 1>That is such like an emotional, fantastical idea that's rooted
<v Speaker 1>in nothing actually rational. But anxiety will make you think like, oh,
<v Speaker 1>we're being so rational right now, we're connecting the dots
<v Speaker 1>like a motherfucker.
<v Speaker 2>Obviously they'll just like I have read in my hair,
<v Speaker 2>just like them. Never mind, it's a thing that's part
<v Speaker 2>of their click that they earn through shared experiences, and
<v Speaker 2>I'm just co opting that. Not cool?
<v Speaker 1>And something I really love in this movie is how
<v Speaker 1>we see anxiety co opt parts of Riley's brain that
<v Speaker 1>used to be positive, like the fact that they the
<v Speaker 1>writers thought to incorporate her imagination and how anxiety takes
<v Speaker 1>over her imagination to use for catastrophizing and what ifing
<v Speaker 1>was so well done because I don't think I even
<v Speaker 1>really thought about it as like your imagination going sour? Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>And that is exactly what it is. Is your imagination
<v Speaker 1>is using that strength within you that especially if you
<v Speaker 1>identify it as a strength and then it's part of that,
<v Speaker 1>like I said that scam, it's doing of like, see,
<v Speaker 1>we're smart thinkers and we're thinking ahead when really that's
<v Speaker 1>what we call in the biz a cognitive distortion, sometimes
<v Speaker 1>also called thinking error. And that's one of my favorite
<v Speaker 1>things to do with anxious clients is I show them
<v Speaker 1>a handout I have from like the nineties and it
<v Speaker 1>looks like something that would be on an overhead projector nice.
<v Speaker 1>I like how old it looks too, because then I
<v Speaker 1>say to people, see, how like what you're doing is
<v Speaker 1>not a new thing. It's not a novel thing. It
<v Speaker 1>is something that's so common when you have anxiety that
<v Speaker 1>there's ten categories for it that's been around for decades,
<v Speaker 1>and I go through them with the client and usually
<v Speaker 1>they'll be like, oh, yeah, I do that, yep, I
<v Speaker 1>do that, Yep I do that, yep I do that.
<v Speaker 1>And noticing and naming something as a cognitive distortion is
<v Speaker 1>one of the first ways that you can start to
<v Speaker 1>crack the idea that your anxiety knows what it's doing.
<v Speaker 1>And catastrophizing is the main one we see in this movie,
<v Speaker 1>the what ifing she does, but there's also things like
<v Speaker 1>mind reading, assuming what other people are thinking about you,
<v Speaker 1>M M. Forecasting like the thing she does, which is
<v Speaker 1>also like catastrophygzing. But the amount of times I've worked
<v Speaker 1>with teenagers and they think if they like get one
<v Speaker 1>bad grade on one test, that they're literally gonna have
<v Speaker 1>a horrible life. They'll be like, if i get a
<v Speaker 1>bad grade on this exam, then I'm going to fail
<v Speaker 1>this class, that I'm not going to get into a
<v Speaker 1>good college. Then I can't get a good job to
<v Speaker 1>support a family.
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.
<v Speaker 1>So this one test now is not just this one test.
<v Speaker 1>It's like will I one day be able to have
<v Speaker 1>a family or not? And we see her do that
<v Speaker 1>in this movie. But like I said, these cognitive distortions
<v Speaker 1>like all are nothing thinking which we do see her do,
<v Speaker 1>like if I don't make the team this year, I'll
<v Speaker 1>never make it, or I won't make any friends, or
<v Speaker 1>I'll never play hockey again. Like taking a lot of
<v Speaker 1>blame for something that's not your fault, not taking blame
<v Speaker 1>for something that is your fault.
<v Speaker 2>Mental filter, Yeah, it's.
<v Speaker 1>All like rigidity is the way you can think of
<v Speaker 1>it too, Like M hm thoughts that are very like
<v Speaker 1>extreme that use words like never, always, nobody, everybody. Those
<v Speaker 1>are also usually signs I'll give people heads up on
<v Speaker 1>like those are all like red flags that this could
<v Speaker 1>be a cognitive distortion. And so once you can accept
<v Speaker 1>that and identify it as that, then you can start
<v Speaker 1>to break down. Okay, if I can recognize it's cognitive distortion,
<v Speaker 1>then I know that this is something that's not rooted
<v Speaker 1>in rationale. It's rooted in emotion, and it's rooted in
<v Speaker 1>a very understandable desire to find certainty. Because also every
<v Speaker 1>cognitive distortion is a way to try to grab at
<v Speaker 1>certainty where it does not live. So forecasting catastrophizing is
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to be certain about the future because you're
<v Speaker 1>too anxious about as seeming uncertain. Mind reading is because
<v Speaker 1>you want to be certain about how other people feel
<v Speaker 1>about you, because it feels too difficult to not know
<v Speaker 1>how people think about you, And so it creates this
<v Speaker 1>idea that you'll feel better with certainty, but the certainty
<v Speaker 1>is always negative.
<v Speaker 2>What is a really fun question to ask people after
<v Speaker 2>you have them? I have this a similar sheet that
<v Speaker 2>to the one you hand out that has all these
<v Speaker 2>that looks very nineties overhead projectory, and I used to
<v Speaker 2>have people just check off the ones they notice, yeah
<v Speaker 2>that they do a lot. And man, watching people go
<v Speaker 2>through these like oh yeah, I do that, I do that,
<v Speaker 2>I do a fuck I need to double check that
<v Speaker 2>I do that all the time. Just go watch them
<v Speaker 2>empower themselves to challenge the cognitive distortions and do what
<v Speaker 2>we would call reframing. Yeah, are going like, oh wait
<v Speaker 2>a minute, Okay, So if I don't make the team
<v Speaker 2>this year, like we see her do it at the
<v Speaker 2>end of the movie, I could always try out again
<v Speaker 2>next year. And you know, subtext being there's club hockey,
<v Speaker 2>there's just playing in the park, there's roller hockey. I
<v Speaker 2>can do lots of things to still have hockey even
<v Speaker 2>if I'm not a fire hawk.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, which was a cruel move by the movie to
<v Speaker 2>be all about anxiety, and then we don't find out
<v Speaker 2>if she made it.
<v Speaker 1>I like that and I liked it too. Actually, actually
<v Speaker 1>it was like that's baller when I watched it again
<v Speaker 1>today because I forgot that happened. M Yeah, And I
<v Speaker 1>was like, I like that. They don't give us certainty.
<v Speaker 1>They're teaching us a lesson in this movie. Absolutely, but
<v Speaker 1>there might not be a quote unquote happy ending, although
<v Speaker 1>we could stay Yeah, well, yeah, I agree, but I
<v Speaker 1>still like that they kind of left it open ended
<v Speaker 1>so that we have to sit with our anxiety and
<v Speaker 1>uncertainty about what happens. It was a very artistic move. Yeah, absolutely, so.
<v Speaker 3>Hearing both of you talk about having the sheet that
<v Speaker 3>you use with cognitive distortions, I also have one. I
<v Speaker 3>don't think it's from the nineties, and I use that
<v Speaker 3>and I do a step further, so I go through
<v Speaker 3>and have clients identify which ones do they use the
<v Speaker 3>most out of all of them, and then I make
<v Speaker 3>them for a week, to the best of their ability,
<v Speaker 3>keep track of how often it's happening, and kind of
<v Speaker 3>what I tell them is we need to know where
<v Speaker 3>to start. So like if you're doing if you're doing
<v Speaker 3>fortune telling, like one hundred times a day, then that's
<v Speaker 3>where we need to start, versus starting in another spot
<v Speaker 3>and so, and then we come up with different thoughts
<v Speaker 3>to help create neutral thoughts to go along with the
<v Speaker 3>anxiety thoughts that they're having to kind of help them
<v Speaker 3>switch to something that's a little bit less rigid.
<v Speaker 2>Basically, yeah, and it's hugely important, and the entire basis
<v Speaker 2>of CBT, ACT DBT, any cognitive based therapy is helping
<v Speaker 2>people understand some of these things you're taking for granted
<v Speaker 2>might not be the truth. And one of my favorite
<v Speaker 2>questions to ask people that usually gets the oh is
<v Speaker 2>when I ask them how their imagination got hijacked, basically like,
<v Speaker 2>so you imagine all of these things, you run through,
<v Speaker 2>all these negatives canna happen? How many times did you
<v Speaker 2>imagine everything going well?
<v Speaker 1>What they try to do with her in the movie
<v Speaker 1>where they start what iffing positives and what happens is
<v Speaker 1>what usually happens right, which as anxiety goes, shut the
<v Speaker 1>fuck up, yep, you're being stupid, you're not being prepared.
<v Speaker 2>And then the other question I learned to ask with
<v Speaker 2>that is how often did you imagine things going just okay? Right,
<v Speaker 2>not good, not bad, just okay? And they're like never,
<v Speaker 2>never times do I imagine it anything other than awesome
<v Speaker 2>or terrible? Me, Like, I always see that kind of
<v Speaker 2>discussion with anxiety, like Luke and Han on the Millennium
<v Speaker 2>Falcon talking about whether to go get Lea off the
<v Speaker 2>Death Star, and like Luke's like trying to appeal to Han,
<v Speaker 2>going well, she's rich, and Han's like, how rich? I mean,
<v Speaker 2>she's more rich than you can imagine. I don't know,
<v Speaker 2>I can imagine quite a bit. And you just watch
<v Speaker 2>anxiety have a war inside your head going like, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, imagine, I can imagine so many ways
<v Speaker 2>that this goes fucking terrible for me that I think
<v Speaker 2>we need to prepare for all of them, and all
<v Speaker 2>the rest of you parts going like all things could
<v Speaker 2>be happy and shiny and fun, need to fuck off. Well,
<v Speaker 2>you're bringing up with me.
<v Speaker 1>Both are bringing up an important point, which is that, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I also think that it's more helpful and matches more
<v Speaker 1>of the situation to encourage clients to practice new track
<v Speaker 1>in their thinking, because if you try to go to
<v Speaker 1>positive it can be just as irrational or unrealistic as
<v Speaker 1>the very negative, right, and so a lot of times
<v Speaker 1>your anxiety or your brain in general will like poop
<v Speaker 1>out the positive thing, be like well that's ridiculous now,
<v Speaker 1>or like we don't want to get our hopes up,
<v Speaker 1>and so neutrality is more realistic, and so it's your
<v Speaker 1>brain's more likely to accept it, and it's also helps
<v Speaker 1>to practice flexibility with your thinking, because most things in
<v Speaker 1>life are neutral correct. Very few things are very very
<v Speaker 1>bad or very very good things. Things are just neutral,
<v Speaker 1>are nothing.
<v Speaker 2>Burgers are neither good nor bad, but thinking makes them.
<v Speaker 6>So.
<v Speaker 2>Most things are just neutral. But if you overthink them
<v Speaker 2>or overhype and try to be something other than you are,
<v Speaker 2>you're likely to end up.
<v Speaker 1>Not Okay, you're gonna make it weird. You're gonna make
<v Speaker 1>it a thing. We're more likely to make it a
<v Speaker 1>thing by overthinking it. Like we've seen this movie, she
<v Speaker 1>gets put in her foot in her mouth yep, because
<v Speaker 1>she's getting in her head and that's what makes things weird,
<v Speaker 1>and that's what's making the reactions from the older girls happen,
<v Speaker 1>not just her as her.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah right, and then it can spiral into like the
<v Speaker 2>complicated mix of anger and anxiety, which is envy. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I liked how they teamed up because it is like
<v Speaker 1>that idea of like comparisons, the thief of joy that
<v Speaker 1>envy does really pump up anxiety in a lot of
<v Speaker 1>ways because it also goes back to when you don't
<v Speaker 1>trust yourself and you're looking for the outside, so you're
<v Speaker 1>looking around other people and comparing yourself and figuring out
<v Speaker 1>what do they have that I don't have? Cove if
<v Speaker 1>you will, very biblical way of putting it. And it
<v Speaker 1>does make sense that those things, those emotions would be
<v Speaker 1>little teammates in this movie because it's poking, poking, poking, poking,
<v Speaker 1>poking at stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely and what those like little emotions in between all serve.
<v Speaker 2>The purpose of doing was showing that within our body
<v Speaker 2>we have activators and deactivators. And the way they would
<v Speaker 2>show On WE or embarrassment like snap, the ridiculous behavior
<v Speaker 2>off of like what are you doing? Stop right now?
<v Speaker 2>Embarrassment and just going like whoa hide, stop, you're being absurd.
<v Speaker 2>And then I loved the on WE character.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, oh absolutely my favorite mine too, those hysterical Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>I love that they hired like a French model to
<v Speaker 2>be on WI.
<v Speaker 1>You just and she won the Pump Door. She's one
<v Speaker 1>of the few women that have ever won the Pumped
<v Speaker 1>War for acting.
<v Speaker 2>I do not know what.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what that is. It's the con Con
<v Speaker 1>Film Festival, like the biggest prize you can win. It's
<v Speaker 1>one of the most coveted a cinematic awards you can win.
<v Speaker 1>So she was one of those co stars and blue
<v Speaker 1>is the warmest color, okay, which won everything like in
<v Speaker 1>twenty thirteen. Yeah, her last name is this crazy long
<v Speaker 1>Greek name like s S is that. Her name is
<v Speaker 1>Adele Escar Pelosis or something.
<v Speaker 2>It's like ten letters, as many Greek names are. That's
<v Speaker 2>why Jennifer Aniston chopped off half the letters in her name.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>But the beauty of that of seeing we have on
<v Speaker 2>and offs, and we have off ramps to all of
<v Speaker 2>these intense emotions that can literally stop us in our tracks.
<v Speaker 2>Shame exists to stop anger usually or anything else, any
<v Speaker 2>other basic emotion going like, hey, you're not supposed to
<v Speaker 2>do that. If somebody cuts you in line at the
<v Speaker 2>grocery store, your anger might kickanu, tell them all about theirselves,
<v Speaker 2>throw them, grab them by the back of the collar.
<v Speaker 2>And Shame's like, uh, you're gonna get arrested if you
<v Speaker 2>do that. Shame and anxiety kind of combine and go, no, no, no,
<v Speaker 2>we don't do that. You'll be cast out of the
<v Speaker 2>tribe if you do that, and at that moment we
<v Speaker 2>need it. Yeah, Or driving around in Chicago and thinking
<v Speaker 2>about if this motherfucker cuts me off one more fucking time,
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna drive their car into the wall. We
<v Speaker 2>need that shame and anxiety to go. You will die too.
<v Speaker 2>Check yourself, check yourself. It's not worth it. Let it go.
<v Speaker 2>You'll never see them again. Do not follow them, do
<v Speaker 2>not chase them down the street, do not teach him lesson,
<v Speaker 2>none of those things.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and as we see in this movie, the climax
<v Speaker 1>of this movie that when something like anxiety is taking
<v Speaker 1>the front row, taking control of everything, that eventually you
<v Speaker 1>will have something like a panic attack.
<v Speaker 2>You will, which we should talk about after a break.
<v Speaker 3>I think they do such a beautiful job showing what
<v Speaker 3>it can be like to experience a panic attack, both
<v Speaker 3>Riley's presentation of experiencing a panic attack and also her
<v Speaker 3>anxiety part getting frozen. Oh, that was fantastic inside because
<v Speaker 3>a set of people freeze can also experience you just
<v Speaker 3>get so you're just so caught up in it, just
<v Speaker 3>like we see anxiety who's just freaking the fuck out
<v Speaker 3>and feels like the world is caving in around them.
<v Speaker 3>And I think they do a really good job of
<v Speaker 3>also showing Riley experiencing some of the breathing that can happen,
<v Speaker 3>some of the frustration and confusion that people experience when
<v Speaker 3>they're experiencing panic attacks. And also and then also something
<v Speaker 3>else that's really beautiful that we see that Riley naturally does,
<v Speaker 3>whether it's something that she's learned before or not, she
<v Speaker 3>naturally begins to ground herself. She touches where she's sitting,
<v Speaker 3>she looks up into the light, she lets go of
<v Speaker 3>her hockey stick.
<v Speaker 1>That's more like.
<v Speaker 3>When she's experiencing the panic attack. Something I wanted to
<v Speaker 3>make sure to mention about panic attacks is also that
<v Speaker 3>they can look different.
<v Speaker 1>For different people.
<v Speaker 3>They can It doesn't always have to be the I
<v Speaker 3>feel like I'm going to die, I feel like I'm
<v Speaker 3>having a heart attack. For a lot of people, that
<v Speaker 3>is exactly what it is, but for other people it
<v Speaker 3>can be something completely different. I break out in a
<v Speaker 3>rash when I have a panic attack, and I can
<v Speaker 3>start to feel it, like my neck starts to feel tingly,
<v Speaker 3>and I can tell that this is where this is going.
<v Speaker 1>I'm hiding into a panic attack.
<v Speaker 2>You've seen it, yep. Yeah, so not just on you,
<v Speaker 2>but on other people. Yeah, yeah, particularly during stressful EMDR sessions.
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely absolutely people experience this, and so essentially what a
<v Speaker 3>panic attack is is just really starting to feel like
<v Speaker 3>nothing makes sense. I don't know what to do, and
<v Speaker 3>everything that I thought was going to happen has happened,
<v Speaker 3>or I imagine that it happened, so it feels real.
<v Speaker 2>It's your body entering a catastrophic shutdown where nothing that
<v Speaker 2>you do is going to work, so freak the fuck out, man.
<v Speaker 2>That's it. That's all there is to do is just
<v Speaker 2>try to run all your parts simultaneously and recognize that
<v Speaker 2>none of them feels like they have any chance of success.
<v Speaker 2>So you just keep trying to run every one of
<v Speaker 2>those basic programs or feelings over and over and over
<v Speaker 2>and over, and none of them work, which is why
<v Speaker 2>we see anxiety and that like tornado, but also constantly
<v Speaker 2>moving and trying to flip switches so fast that she
<v Speaker 2>just looks like she's glitching out because that's exactly what's happening,
<v Speaker 2>and that usually causes our heart rate to spike, our
<v Speaker 2>blood pressure to spike, because our system is literally overheating
<v Speaker 2>and overwhelmwhelming itself. And they just did show it beautifully.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah they did.
<v Speaker 3>I even like the part where Joy pulls anxiety out
<v Speaker 3>of the of the tornado. But the tornado is still
<v Speaker 3>going h and that shows that our bodies are still
<v Speaker 3>responding to this threat or whatever it is. Our body
<v Speaker 3>is still responding to it, and it takes time for the
<v Speaker 3>body to calm back down.
<v Speaker 2>Which is the key. Yeah, that is the key. A
<v Speaker 2>calm body, calm mind. It never ever works the other way.
<v Speaker 2>If you learn nothing else from us, learn that calm body,
<v Speaker 2>calm mind. You cannot calm down without the grounding that
<v Speaker 2>Hannah mentioned, coming back to your core senses and perceiving
<v Speaker 2>that whatever it is that's activated in your hijacked imagination
<v Speaker 2>isn't real. And what they beautifully covered with anxiety when
<v Speaker 2>they threw her on the chair and calmed her down, like, oh,
<v Speaker 2>but this could be happening? Is it happening now?
<v Speaker 1>No?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but you have to deactivate that system out of
<v Speaker 2>that complete hyper arousal by regrounding back to what you
<v Speaker 2>concretely indisputably see, hear, smell, touch, taste. And we saw
<v Speaker 2>Riley doing that, looking at the lights, re gripping the
<v Speaker 2>hockey stick, looking at the faces of her friends, breathing
<v Speaker 2>and slowing down and realizing all of those things could
<v Speaker 2>be true. But what is true right now? How do
<v Speaker 2>I solve this? Now? I can be a good friend
<v Speaker 2>by hugging my friend, and then I am a good
<v Speaker 2>friend again. But if you try to think your way
<v Speaker 2>through that, you'll be that orange tornado that doesn't know
<v Speaker 2>what to do. You have to ground.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think a good point too with joy
<v Speaker 1>taking anxiety out of that tornado is that you can't
<v Speaker 1>start to feel better. You can't start to like calm
<v Speaker 1>down and regulate until you're like out of the situation
<v Speaker 1>that's freaking you out. Because even though she has that anxiety,
<v Speaker 1>the panic attack in the penalty box, it probably also
<v Speaker 1>helps that it's in the penalty box absolutely, and she's
<v Speaker 1>not like in the game with like things coming at
<v Speaker 1>her and having to make decisions like she is kind
<v Speaker 1>of in her own little space.
<v Speaker 2>Right, And what's beautiful about that? Also? I mean everything
<v Speaker 2>these movies just cover emotional health so well, But watching
<v Speaker 2>that part of that system freak out and getting the
<v Speaker 2>sense of self back online requires not letting fragmented parts
<v Speaker 2>take over that can't see the whole picture. They have
<v Speaker 2>to work together. It has to be the whole system
<v Speaker 2>perceiving everything dynamically. Your anger side can't solve that she
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have been there, she got in my way. Wrong answer.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm terrible. All my friends are gonna
<v Speaker 2>hate me. Incorrect, everything's terrible. I broke everything. Oh I'm gross.
<v Speaker 2>All of that, none of it's going to work. But
<v Speaker 2>coming back down to okay, hold on, life is going
<v Speaker 2>to happen one minute at a time, one second at
<v Speaker 2>a time, and the next right decision I make can
<v Speaker 2>deactivate my stress, which then lowers your blood pressure and
<v Speaker 2>takes you out of that sensory exclusion we saw her
<v Speaker 2>going through. You can see her like not able to hear.
<v Speaker 2>You can feel I don't know how they did that,
<v Speaker 2>but you can feel the tunnel vision and whatever sound
<v Speaker 2>they made. That high pitched wine is exactly what happens
<v Speaker 2>when you enter an extremely stressful situation. Your blood pressure
<v Speaker 2>goes so high that you get ringing in your ears
<v Speaker 2>and your eyesight literally starts to narrow, and as you
<v Speaker 2>calm back down and realize that nothing's trying to kill
<v Speaker 2>you right now, your life is not literally ending right
<v Speaker 2>the second you can reincorporate all available outcomes, meaning you
<v Speaker 2>need all emotions.
<v Speaker 1>All right. Anything else we want to talk about before
<v Speaker 1>we switch into treatment, So let's take a bag care
<v Speaker 1>we'll be right back. So for this episode, because there's
<v Speaker 1>really only like one character, we focus on Riley, that's
<v Speaker 1>not an emotion, right, we thought for treatment we would
<v Speaker 1>just kind of discuss different ways we help people with anxiety,
<v Speaker 1>which you've already been talking about throughout the episode. So
<v Speaker 1>does anyone have any more like pointed intervention strategies modalities
<v Speaker 1>that they want to talk about when we talk about
<v Speaker 1>anxiety management? Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>I have a couple of different a couple of different
<v Speaker 3>things that I that I do that I wanted to
<v Speaker 3>bring up. Some of them are very small and some
<v Speaker 3>of them require more time and energy. But there's a
<v Speaker 3>phrase that I talk to clients about, and it is
<v Speaker 3>I am feeling afraid, but I am not in danger.
<v Speaker 1>That's a good one and.
<v Speaker 3>Giving somebody that as an option to say, to say
<v Speaker 3>to yourself, to say if you're starting to feel the symptoms,
<v Speaker 3>but also to remind your self that our bodies are
<v Speaker 3>wired for whatever is going to happen, and if we
<v Speaker 3>have a trauma history where really bad things have happened
<v Speaker 3>to us, our body will act afraid and think that
<v Speaker 3>something bad else is going to happen.
<v Speaker 2>Because it already did.
<v Speaker 1>Because it already did, It's irrefutable.
<v Speaker 3>History, which is really which is really tricky and makes
<v Speaker 3>anxiety very just makes it just makes it hard. Some
<v Speaker 3>of the other things that I talk about, which I'm
<v Speaker 3>sure I don't know if Bernie will bring up already
<v Speaker 3>because some of it is stuff that I probably stole
<v Speaker 3>from her, is TIP. I talk to clients about TIP,
<v Speaker 3>which is temperature, intense exercise, and pressure. And so when
<v Speaker 3>I talk to people about temperature, I talk to them
<v Speaker 3>about opening the freezer and kind of sticking your face
<v Speaker 3>in the freezer, holding onto an ice cube, holding on
<v Speaker 3>to it an ice cube.
<v Speaker 1>It's just enough to.
<v Speaker 3>Distraction for your body that you can the physiological response
<v Speaker 3>of anxiety can calm down. Intense exercise can be I
<v Speaker 3>tell people do jumping jacks.
<v Speaker 1>Do jumping jacks. That can help. Also pressure.
<v Speaker 3>So when I talk about pressure, that one is a
<v Speaker 3>little bit harder for people to do sometimes, But that
<v Speaker 3>can be getting a tight hug from somebody, that can
<v Speaker 3>be using a weighted blanket, that can be even for
<v Speaker 3>some people. That can be putting on tighter clothes, not
<v Speaker 3>a rubber suit. That'siculos Batman wears that big old outfit, right.
<v Speaker 1>Because he needs pressure, whatever needs pressure whatever. So that's
<v Speaker 1>so that's one of the.
<v Speaker 6>Things, Like it's nasty, So those are So that's a
<v Speaker 6>couple of things I do.
<v Speaker 3>We already talked about the cognitive distortions and then I
<v Speaker 3>just try And then the other thing that I talk
<v Speaker 3>to people a lot about is the natural anxieties of life.
<v Speaker 3>What is a natural anxiety? Natural anxiety is being anxious
<v Speaker 3>about a job interview, being anxious about your first day
<v Speaker 3>at a new job. Those are natural things that everybody
<v Speaker 3>feels anxious about. And so really also helping people identify
<v Speaker 3>is this a natural anxiety or is this the anxiety
<v Speaker 3>that kind of lives in my head all the time,
<v Speaker 3>just to give them a better sense of what they
<v Speaker 3>can base their decision making on. Well, I think it
<v Speaker 3>helps challenge the idea that we have to either be
<v Speaker 3>someone who has a lot of anxiety and it's a
<v Speaker 3>problem and we're irrational beings, or we don't have any
<v Speaker 3>anxiety and we're fine and like easygoing, and.
<v Speaker 2>People who are anxious or ridiculous and broken and anxiety
<v Speaker 2>is for cowards.
<v Speaker 1>So it helps with this, like what you're saying, hen
<v Speaker 1>and it helps with this idea that, like, anxiety has
<v Speaker 1>a purpose, and there are some things that make anyone
<v Speaker 1>or most people feel anxious, and you feeling anxious doesn't
<v Speaker 1>mean that you have to feel anxious about feeling anxious,
<v Speaker 1>or judgmental about feeling anxious, or start that train going right,
<v Speaker 1>or that you can pull your anxiety in, which is
<v Speaker 1>only even since I was telling yourself, like it makes
<v Speaker 1>sense that I feel anxious because we're got a job
<v Speaker 1>interview and I don't have to and being careful that
<v Speaker 1>my brain doesn't make it about something more than that.
<v Speaker 1>Anxiety is really good at making everything more than it is.
<v Speaker 2>I like to remind people that nervousness is anxiety light,
<v Speaker 2>and it's okay to rebrand normal feelings of anxiety as
<v Speaker 2>being nervous.
<v Speaker 1>Or just stress too, like as a stressor Right.
<v Speaker 2>They're all synonyms, but if you can redefine them a
<v Speaker 2>little bit aka reframe. Right, This is what a cognitive
<v Speaker 2>reframe exactly is, is how you use them? Is going well?
<v Speaker 2>Are you feeling anxious or nervous? Is this just a
<v Speaker 2>natural response to something that's important to you that you
<v Speaker 2>want to go well? Because it's normal for that to
<v Speaker 2>cause you to have butterflies in your stomach and to
<v Speaker 2>feel your heart rate go up because you care about it,
<v Speaker 2>and it's okay to take it seriously and recognize it's
<v Speaker 2>important to you. It's also important to recognize that when
<v Speaker 2>you feel that way, you may need to do something extra,
<v Speaker 2>to take action to reassure yourself that whatever you're imagining
<v Speaker 2>might not go well doesn't. To the best of your ability,
<v Speaker 2>can't control everything, and you already know that, but if
<v Speaker 2>you do the best that you can, you'll be confident.
<v Speaker 1>And living on uncertainty is also something I talk about
<v Speaker 1>with anxiety treatment with people, is that so much of anxiety,
<v Speaker 1>I said, so much of anxiety is trying to feel
<v Speaker 1>certainty where there is uncertainty. And so a lot of
<v Speaker 1>learning how to live with anxiety is learning how to
<v Speaker 1>sit in the discomfort of not getting the reassurance you
<v Speaker 1>want of certainty that you can handle maybe not knowing
<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen? Can you handle not knowing everyone's
<v Speaker 1>opinion of you? Right, and practiced just sitting in that
<v Speaker 1>instead of trying to do the kingn of distortion y
<v Speaker 1>stuff or the reassurance seeking stuff like what I tell
<v Speaker 1>people reassurance seeking is is that if you're having to
<v Speaker 1>do something multiple times, or if something you're doing doesn't
<v Speaker 1>have a lasting effect, like I ask my mom everything's
<v Speaker 1>going to be okay, but then I have to ask
<v Speaker 1>for that again like five minutes later or an hour later,
<v Speaker 1>Then that's actually not doing doing it. If you have
<v Speaker 1>to keep doing it, that's reassurance seeking, and that that
<v Speaker 1>you're looking for a rational response to a irrational emotional
<v Speaker 1>thing that's happening within you. And so a lot of
<v Speaker 1>that work with anxiety like that is you just have
<v Speaker 1>to learn how to sit in that feeling and that
<v Speaker 1>you can handle not engaging in any sort of reassurance seeking,
<v Speaker 1>not engaging in any catastrophizing or cognitive distortion, and just
<v Speaker 1>be with the feeling and then try to do something
<v Speaker 1>we've been talking about, which is which is pay attention
<v Speaker 1>to if the feeling lives somewhere in your body, like
<v Speaker 1>my anxiety lives in my stomach, how to like breathe
<v Speaker 1>through that feeling, right the wave of that feeling. Maybe
<v Speaker 1>do something like you were talking about handle like tip,
<v Speaker 1>which can also include progressive muscle relaxation, so doing a
<v Speaker 1>body scan and saying like am I holding tension somewhere
<v Speaker 1>in my body? And is that adding to my physical discomfort,
<v Speaker 1>which is then adding to my something is wrong feeling right?
<v Speaker 1>And so paying attention to your body, paying attention to
<v Speaker 1>also your needs like h gret angry, lonely, tired. That's
<v Speaker 1>also not bad if you struggle with anxiety, because if
<v Speaker 1>you struggle with anxiety, I kind of always just think
<v Speaker 1>of it as like your brain's overproducing anxiety. You have
<v Speaker 1>a delicate ecosystem in there when it comes with anxiety,
<v Speaker 1>and so you have to make sure that you're taking
<v Speaker 1>care of yourself because it can be so easy for
<v Speaker 1>other forms of discomfort for your brain to misunderstand and mistranslate.
<v Speaker 1>Is something's wrong, So I have to find what's wrong yep.
<v Speaker 1>And so maybe you're just hungry, maybe you haven't got
<v Speaker 1>enough sleep, maybe even spending too much time inside. Maybe
<v Speaker 1>something else is still bothering you, and that's what's hanging
<v Speaker 1>out inside of you. And then it doesn't have to
<v Speaker 1>be something bigger than that, it's not it has to
<v Speaker 1>be this big mystery you have to solve. And also
<v Speaker 1>something I wanted to highlight too, is I really do
<v Speaker 1>like how they treat anxiety at the end of the movie,
<v Speaker 1>pulling her away from the situation, giving her a designated
<v Speaker 1>safe space to hang out that armchair, letting her like
<v Speaker 1>ground with like a treat like the hot chocolate or whatever,
<v Speaker 1>or a tea and sitting with her blanket and getting comfortable.
<v Speaker 1>And also she'd practices radical acceptance with her so like
<v Speaker 1>what's in your control, what's not in your control? What
<v Speaker 1>do we know? What we don't know? To help you
<v Speaker 1>get a better sense of what's actually something you can
<v Speaker 1>take charge of. So the hockey thing, we don't have
<v Speaker 1>control over that, because whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.
<v Speaker 1>But what can we control our Spanish test tomorrow? Right,
<v Speaker 1>And so it can help us feel more grounded in
<v Speaker 1>our actual we actually have control over, which can just
<v Speaker 1>help us feel better and put that energy somewhere useful.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, which is the thing that I recommend most for
<v Speaker 2>anxiety is chaining off. That is recognized that anxiety exists
<v Speaker 2>to help you resolve a problem, and you've already perceived
<v Speaker 2>the problem, and you also already know what you can
<v Speaker 2>can and can't do and solve. The basic truths of
<v Speaker 2>the universe are things you were born understanding enough, so
<v Speaker 2>you know you can't control what other people think, do, say,
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. You know, all those things trying to trick
<v Speaker 2>yourself that if you do everything exactly the right way
<v Speaker 2>and part way chain eight thousand extraordinarily unlikely events together
<v Speaker 2>in a perfectionistic way, that you will prevent bad from
<v Speaker 2>happening to you or anybody you love. Doesn't work, and
<v Speaker 2>you already know that. What you can do with it
<v Speaker 2>is recognize, my body is trying to communicate to me
<v Speaker 2>that I haven't done enough that I can turn this
<v Speaker 2>feeling off and respond to it in a way that
<v Speaker 2>makes me feel prepared. So, like Riley did, Hey, you
<v Speaker 2>got a lot of things you're anxious about right now.
<v Speaker 2>It's not just hockey, it's also Spanish tests. You can't
<v Speaker 2>solve hockey, but you can lower the stress thermometer's temperature
<v Speaker 2>by studying Spanish. And you can do that right now. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>And that's the thing people forget to do all the
<v Speaker 2>time when they're anxious, because we enter that freeze where
<v Speaker 2>you just panic and freak out because we don't see
<v Speaker 2>any pathway, any off ramp. We don't use the onway
<v Speaker 2>to go chill it's whatever you need to use that
<v Speaker 2>off ramp to go okay. Stop stop thinking about this,
<v Speaker 2>separate it out, and focus on what can I do
<v Speaker 2>right now that convinces me I've done enough. If I'm
<v Speaker 2>worried I won't wake up in time to make practice
<v Speaker 2>in the morning, I need to set a second alarm,
<v Speaker 2>and if I do that, my anxiety will probably step
<v Speaker 2>back and chill and go Okay, we've done a thing.
<v Speaker 2>I could also call a friend and say, hey, can
<v Speaker 2>we ride together? Can you come pick me up to
<v Speaker 2>make sure I get my ass out of bed. If
<v Speaker 2>I don't answer the door, throw rocks at my window.
<v Speaker 2>I'm home. Don't get any ridiculous ideas that I'm not here.
<v Speaker 2>I'm here. Get my ass out of bed. Here's my
<v Speaker 2>spare key. If I'm not up, drag me out of
<v Speaker 2>bed and take me to practice. I'll probably be up.
<v Speaker 2>But if I'm not, please come in my house and
<v Speaker 2>throw water on me, and you will have then, at least,
<v Speaker 2>even in that ridiculous narrative, created solutions that allow you
<v Speaker 2>to turn the anxiety off a bit. Because you've solved
<v Speaker 2>the problem, you don't have to worry about it going
<v Speaker 2>all wrong because you've safeguarded it, so recognizing we need
<v Speaker 2>anxiety to propel us towards a solution, but it can
<v Speaker 2>be used to solve smaller problems, to turn off the
<v Speaker 2>intensity of it, even if you can't turn it off
<v Speaker 2>all the way, all and nothing thinking doesn't help.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which they also do in the end of this movie,
<v Speaker 1>which I liked as well, which is something that is
<v Speaker 1>also a intervention for anxiety, which is sitting with the
<v Speaker 1>dialectic that at the end of the movie. That's basically
<v Speaker 1>what they do, which your sense of self isn't just
<v Speaker 1>I'm just a good person. It isn't all positive, fluffy rainbows. No,
<v Speaker 1>it is like I make mistakes sometimes, and I'm a
<v Speaker 1>good friend, and I can be selfish and I can
<v Speaker 1>be kind, And so I think that's also something that
<v Speaker 1>can help with that flexibility of thinking. Is challenging that
<v Speaker 1>anxious idea that you either one or the other, or
<v Speaker 1>even like the total reverse, which is that toxic positive
<v Speaker 1>like joy on full tilt, which is I have to
<v Speaker 1>be very happy and very good and a YadA YadA.
<v Speaker 1>Is that the actual realistic thing that can be very
<v Speaker 1>grounding is allowing yourself to be two things. I wants.
<v Speaker 1>I can make mistakes and I can still have friends.
<v Speaker 1>I cannot make the hockey team, and I don't have
<v Speaker 1>to become a what I should call it, like an
<v Speaker 1>anthno musicologist.
<v Speaker 2>Or whatever it is.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like I don't. I can get a bad grade
<v Speaker 1>on this exam and still have a good life one day.
<v Speaker 1>Like putting two opposing ideas together and sitting in that
<v Speaker 1>can be a really helpful skill.
<v Speaker 2>And more importantly, building off that idea to connect to
<v Speaker 2>the ideas of the first movie that we need all
<v Speaker 2>sides of the emotional experience to assign context to it.
<v Speaker 2>Not only can I be multiple things at the same time,
<v Speaker 2>but I don't have to reject the mistakes I've made.
<v Speaker 2>I need to embrace them because they help me learn
<v Speaker 2>what not to do. I learned I shouldn't be a
<v Speaker 2>to my friends and pursue only my own glory in
<v Speaker 2>a team sport, because then people won't like me. So
<v Speaker 2>I need to check that. And I shouldn't get singularly
<v Speaker 2>focused and in my head because I might not perceive
<v Speaker 2>that I'm about to run over somebody and they're going
<v Speaker 2>to get hurt because I wasn't paying attention enough, but
<v Speaker 2>just because I made that mistake doesn't make me a
<v Speaker 2>bad person. But if I reject that experience, I won't
<v Speaker 2>have learned the lesson from it. But my body's still
<v Speaker 2>going to try to make me anyway. So I need
<v Speaker 2>to incorporate all the things, because even if I put
<v Speaker 2>it in my vault, it's still there.
<v Speaker 3>One of the things that I wanted to bring up
<v Speaker 3>is also using guided meditation. Meditation is really hard for
<v Speaker 3>lots of different reasons, and when you have anxiety, it
<v Speaker 3>can be really helpful to do a guided meditation because
<v Speaker 3>you just have to focus on the voice. And I
<v Speaker 3>find that to also be something that can be helpful
<v Speaker 3>either as something that you do every day. Most guided
<v Speaker 3>meditations you can find with inside timer or Calm or
<v Speaker 3>any of that shit that's out there, you can find one.
<v Speaker 3>Most of them are between five and ten minutes, something
<v Speaker 3>that you can start your day off with, to start
<v Speaker 3>your day off with lowering your number as fast as possible.
<v Speaker 3>And so that's something that I recommend to people to
<v Speaker 3>not only try to do on a more regular basis
<v Speaker 3>when they're experiencing anxiety, but also after having a panic
<v Speaker 3>attack to allow their body to kind of really calm down.
<v Speaker 3>And give their body a little bit more space.
<v Speaker 2>I love that it's very similar to what hypnosis would
<v Speaker 2>do because it's guided. Meditation and hypnosis are parallel, yes,
<v Speaker 2>almost synonymous processes. Getting yourself into a hypo aroused state
<v Speaker 2>where you can be calm beyond calm allows you to
<v Speaker 2>show off the parts you don't want to talk to
<v Speaker 2>right now and focus only on what you're choosing to
<v Speaker 2>and it's a beautiful way to reset. So I love
<v Speaker 2>that idea.
<v Speaker 6>Thanks.
<v Speaker 1>Final thoughts. I think we all like this movie.
<v Speaker 2>I loved it.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think we'll all watch it again. Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
<v Speaker 7>I don't think I loved it as much as the
<v Speaker 7>first one. But also I don't. I don't know how you.
<v Speaker 2>Catch lightning in a bottle twice like they did the
<v Speaker 2>first one, But they came real close with this, and
<v Speaker 2>it's just more complicated and less joyful than the first one.
<v Speaker 2>Is of like recognizing, oh, I have to embrace all
<v Speaker 2>my emotions this one's going on. Yeah, you have to
<v Speaker 2>embrace all of the everything. Yeah, and that's just it's
<v Speaker 2>a harder topic.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll say this this movie and the first one,
<v Speaker 1>but this movie because it has more sophisticated ideas. I
<v Speaker 1>guess I just want to say, like, as a therapist
<v Speaker 1>watching it, it like passes with flying colors, like there's
<v Speaker 1>nothing about this so absolutely it feels like they're misunderstanding
<v Speaker 1>a therapeutic idea or even making something more simple or
<v Speaker 1>more complicated than it is. Like this movie does a
<v Speaker 1>great job of representing everything very accurately and also very
<v Speaker 1>complicated ideas in a way that's very understandable, like the
<v Speaker 1>whole belief system idea, how you're anxiety to comment and
<v Speaker 1>like rip it apart and put these other ideas in
<v Speaker 1>that form your belief system. It does a really great
<v Speaker 1>job of taking big, big, big ideas and really making
<v Speaker 1>them visually understandable.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I think, and what I would love to see
<v Speaker 2>somebody do is kind of superimpose this and stand by
<v Speaker 2>me m. And it kind of cut scenes together because
<v Speaker 2>that was the one. We watched a lot of that
<v Speaker 2>in the adolescent class. I took it at Eastern watching
<v Speaker 2>kind of how all these different developmental stages start to
<v Speaker 2>collide at this weird aide range that these kids are in,
<v Speaker 2>and then realizing how little you have in common with
<v Speaker 2>the older kids, and that death is real and that
<v Speaker 2>stakes are real and other people will kill you to
<v Speaker 2>get what they want. Whereas that you know, the four
<v Speaker 2>main boys age, they haven't quite got that idea together yet.
<v Speaker 2>But this movie kind of superimposing all of these ideas
<v Speaker 2>onto that movie or any other movies that cover this phase.
<v Speaker 2>I think it'll hold up the scenes of the internal
<v Speaker 2>stuff happening could be super imposed on any movie covering
<v Speaker 2>this age group. And that's a beautiful thing. It means
<v Speaker 2>they perfected it.
<v Speaker 3>I really enjoyed this film. I thought it was really
<v Speaker 3>beautifully done. I sometimes recommend it to clients based on
<v Speaker 3>where they are with their anxiety, and sometimes I don't
<v Speaker 3>recommend it because it can be it might be a
<v Speaker 3>little upsetting, because it is a very accurate portrayal of
<v Speaker 3>this kind of experience.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, and also I mean, and I just want
<v Speaker 1>to add it. I like the part in the movie
<v Speaker 1>when she's like joy, she wants you joy, and it's
<v Speaker 1>like calling joy into the console. That makes me tear up,
<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, oh, look, she's just having fun, playing honky.
<v Speaker 1>It's like the importance of having fun, absolutely joy, no
<v Speaker 1>matter what age. Yes, Well, on that note, we'll wrap
<v Speaker 1>up here. As always, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok,
<v Speaker 1>Facebook at popcorn Psychology. You can email us at popcorn
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<v Speaker 1>wherever you listen to podcasts and everybody you know touching
<v Speaker 1>near emotions, y'all, they're all good for you. Good Bye,