Blocked and Reported

00:00:17
Speaker 1: I do.

00:00:17
Speaker 2: Okay, Hi everybody, Welcome to the Renee subs Tennis Podcast. I'm joined by the one and only Caitlin Thompson. She's actually in her apartment and I'm in mind.

00:00:26
Speaker 1: We are in the middle of the Sunshine Double. I guess we're at.

00:00:29
Speaker 3: The beginning of the month of March, where all of the tennis happens here in America, and we have a lot to talk about. We've got a lot of matches to talk about, We've got a lot of narratives to talk about.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: We have there's so much to discuss. I mean, where should we start today.

00:00:44
Speaker 2: I thought you're gonna say meta nerd stuff to talk about. I was like, listen, I'm not in that category. You are in that category. I am not in that category. Okay, you know, and I say that in the in the nicest way, meaning you are like very educated. I am not.

00:00:59
Speaker 3: Listen, street smarts, book smarts, we bring it all to you here on the Renee sub Tennis Podcast. But no, we're talking about large narratives in the tennis space in addition to some you know, granular TikTok stuff.

00:01:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, we have some matches that we want to talk about.

00:01:15
Speaker 3: But should we start off with kind of like a bigger view about some stuff that's been going on.

00:01:19
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?

00:01:20
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean you and I had a conversation earlier this morning about fan disruption. Let's just get into a little bit of that, right I. You know, I've spoken about this a few times on the podcast about you know, fans sort of and don't get me wrong, because the people that listen to our podcasts are fans of tennis, and they are incredible and they cannot get enough tennis content. And it's the people that sort of aren't like our listeners. I would say, I think most people that are disruptors in the crowd. We had an incident with Janick Sinna with some guy apparently saying stuff about his doubles play or not winning in double or whatever it was. He had a problem with him, and he just thought that he could just spray him with stuff while he was on the court. And if you're getting Janick Center pissed off on the tennis court, well done, because not many have. I mean, this is a guy who lost a Grand Slam title last year having three match points and could not have been more gracious in the postmatch interview and postmatch presentation. So we're talking about a guy who it takes a lot to piss him off, and so for him to turn around and say something to a fan what. First of all, I'm just wondering, like, this is not a basketball game, even though I think it's wrong in basketball games. So it's a very genteel quiet you know, you're not usually supposed to be ripping like shit at a player playing tennis.

00:02:41
Speaker 1: And I don't know.

00:02:42
Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking about players that are coming forward talking about death threats they're getting on their tiktoks or their instant messages about you know, death to their families. And you know, that sort of stuff has been highlighted quite a few times over the last like twelve to eighteen months from players. I just wonder why people feel the need to do or say the things that they do when it comes to athletes in general, just people in general.

00:03:07
Speaker 1: Actually, I mean, yeah, where do you start.

00:03:10
Speaker 3: I think we've had a couple of conversations on this pod through the years where it's like, hey, are you harassing players on the internet? Go touch grass? Hey are you somebody who feels entitled to be in the personal space of one of these athletes. Like one of the things that came up when we talked about this earlier was not only yelling at a player but also getting up in a legends face, which has happened now twice in the last couple of weeks. First with John McEnroe getting harassed as far as I can tell, pretty much everywhere from hopping out of his car at the Melbourne Airport to like getting on his flight, like just constant haranging by somebody who trailed him and wouldn't leave him alone. And then this happened again to Rafa a few days ago, who's now out in the world and kind of moving around and obviously he's a gend and people are gonna recognize them and and you know, go up and talk to them. To me, it's all kind of part of the same thing, which is, you know, there's a little bit of a fan out of control issue where you know, these are parasocial relationships, their parasocial relationships, which means like these people think that these are their friends or people they know, and they're not. They're professionals doing their job and part of their job is being in the public space. You know, so I think we can certainly have a continuation of the conversation that's like, why are you harassing or haranguing another human being? And then the second thing that I think is actually kind of more germane to this conversation, which is like, the people who are gonna post death threats to a player or go trample them at an airport are not listening to this podcast, and so us repeating hey, get a life, go touch grass is not gonna you know, we're preaching to the choir. I think instead what we do is say, hey, listen, you guys in the upper signs of the tennis world have created this problem because you've allowed gambling. A lot of this, with the exception of maybe autograph seekers is gambling related. And what are we gonna do because the players aren't allowed to benefit. The players certainly aren't allowed to gamble, which makes sense to me, But they're the ones who are at the mercery of all of these horrific human beings, Let's be honest, mostly men who are on the internet feeling, you know, owed if a player doesn't deliver on their bed. So I don't know what do you think about that?

00:05:30
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I have like it's a little bit of a dichotomy in some ways, right, because betting does provide a lot of money to tennis events, and every major title, every major Grand Slam has betting sponsors, and some of them openly openly have them on the back wall. I remember the Astray and Open had a betting company and its got a lot of flack and unlike every Grand Slam has a betting company. It's just that they don't splash it everywhere. I mean as far as I'm I mean, listen, I go to the horse racing, I bet on horses. I my horse doesn't win. Sometimes I'm mad at the jockey because I feel like he didn't ride a great race. All the things. I don't go to the jockey's room or to the paddock and start yelling at the jockey like you just cost me. I'm just gonna I'm gonna go and go your family and all that sort of stuff. It's like you put on a bet, you took a risk. There's no guarantees in sports, and you lost. Take it like a man and move on. And if you're going to continue to bet on sports, you need to understand that you're probably gonna lose most of the time because there's not too many that win on a consistent basis. And if you do, good for you. But I don't feel like taking betting companies away from sports is going to solve the problem, because you're going to have underground stuff. You're going to you're going to continually have. I mean, there was no betting on sports in the US, you know a few years ago. But guess what you can do an international casino. You can do an international thing. There's always ways to get around that. I think that it's better that the money is coming into the sport, but the people betting on the sport need to really start checking themselves and start realizing if you're putting money on sports, it's like putting money on a stock or a company and then finding out, you know, in six months time, there was a tainted jar of whatever and their stock went down. That's the business, that's what happens. It happens in life. And so now if the company you knew about it and put it out there and you were like, you didn't tell us that in your you know, your call, that's a whole different story. So I mean, I don't think taking betting away from tennis or from sports is going to solve the problem. I think people just need to get a little bit of a life and realize that they're betting is a risk, and gambling is called gambling for a reason.

00:07:43
Speaker 1: Sure, I mean, but for practical reasons.

00:07:46
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not sure that the penalties are harsher for people who abuse these you.

00:07:52
Speaker 1: Know, these players guard rails and yeah, abuse the players. I think.

00:07:57
Speaker 3: You know, this is a larger problem in media, which is, you know, everybody wants to be a platform and have as many users as possible, and this goes for gambling portals as well as pretty much every single social media platform. But they don't want to take a responsibility for anything that happens with those users, what they publish, what they their behavior on the platforms. And you know this this comes up in my world a lot because the idea is that, you know, you can go on Reddit and threaten people's lives and spew a bunch of hate speech, but redd, it's not responsible because they're just a platform and we shouldn't hold them.

00:08:34
Speaker 1: Twitter's the same. Facebook is the same.

00:08:38
Speaker 3: And I think if the last like decade in American discourse I mean probably global, but certainly from where I sit in American discourse, is an indication you know, somebody's gone seriously wrong, and uh, you know, the Internet is a poisonous place because of it. So for me, you know, if you don't want to take gambling out of sports, then you absolutely have to have guarantees from the parts of the partners of these tournaments saying hey, we will ban a user immediately under any circumstance the second we feel like they've been abusive and there's evidence, and we'll nuke their account. There has to be some kind of participation. And much like we've talked about how tournaments should not sell the rights or governing bodies should not sell the rights to their tournaments without having a guarantee from the partners who broadcast them or the brands that support them that they're certain ethical and promotional and certain, you know, sort of like standards of behavior. I think the same should obviously be true for gambling. So I'm more interested instead of yelling at a bunch of random people on the Internet, most of whom are neck beard men who haven't touched grass, I'm more interested in, Okay, well, what can the systems here do and the system should be much much harder and much more proactive, and hopefully they will be.

00:09:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, obviously they'll hopefully they'll go in and sort of find out who that user was. And you know, your credit card is what you have to use to have a gambling.

00:10:05
Speaker 1: Find a million dollars if we.

00:10:07
Speaker 2: Find them, not just block them and ban them.

00:10:09
Speaker 1: They find them and block them and ban them.

00:10:13
Speaker 3: You want to tack out your ass and break the rules. Boom, we have your credit card information, hate speech, find.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: A million dollars.

00:10:21
Speaker 3: Good, you know, just like zero tolerance, like let's go let's go nuclear here, because these players don't deserve it.

00:10:25
Speaker 1: Obviously.

00:10:26
Speaker 3: These people are just doing their jobs and getting death threats should not in any way, shape or form be.

00:10:30
Speaker 1: Part of that job.

00:10:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's one thing if they're getting abused, but it's another thing when they're actually being threatened and their family are being threatened. That's a whole level of shit that I just don'ted. And also get the face of the guy that was hackling Janick Cinner, and for sure never let him in the front row of the tournament again because that was clearly an invite from the tournament that that guy was sitting there. So maybe have a little word to who have invited him, and maybe he will never be able to come back, but anyway.

00:11:00
Speaker 1: Love it. Something lacked and reported.

00:11:02
Speaker 2: Blocked and prop reported. One thing that's interesting that you also talked about. We've seen a little bit of a rise and fall as some players over the last six to twelve months. And I want to talk a little bit about the match last night with the Onix, Sinner and Fonseca. Fonseca has been getting a lot of hype over the last two years, right, and for good reason. He's had some good wins. He's exciting, he's got one of the biggest forehands in the game, all the things, and he's Brazilian and we love that about him and we can't wait to see him play in Miami. But I felt like last night was a really mature match from him. I felt like from start to finish, we didn't see we didn't see the ups and the downs and the sort of like a little bit of losing focus. And he really pushed Yanick Sinner last night. I mean, I think Janick would be a little concerned about the fact that really he should have lost that first set. He was down in the first set tiebreak, he was down by belief five two or six. It was down six three for sure. And then he was also served for the second set and the match and lost that service game. So those are little, tiny concerning things for Yannick, like he didn't just go in there and handle I mean, he handled the business right by winning the match, but he didn't handle the business the way we've been expecting him over the last couple of years. And one of the reasons I felt was because Fonseca didn't go away and he he was really solid last night, and that gives me a lot of hope that maybe, just maybe he might be that guy we've been talking about for the last three years, that maybe we'll turn up and start really pressing.

00:12:39
Speaker 3: Yannick and Carlos I had the exact same takeaways on both for fronts watching that match. And you know, I got a chance to watch our Fencika a couple of years ago and he was still playing juniors at the US Open, because everyone was really excited about how absolutely punishing he is from the ground, especially his forehand.

00:12:59
Speaker 1: He has a nuclear strike for him.

00:13:01
Speaker 2: It's a joke.

00:13:01
Speaker 1: It's nuts.

00:13:03
Speaker 3: But like any time you watch a kid who's highly touted, especially from a country that's a little bit underrepresented at present and has a strong tennis tradition. You know, obviously Googa Quertan's shoes are big ones to fill, you know, Bea hadaj Maaya has been a stalwart on the British I mean on the Brazilian scene, but you know, not reaching the heights of getting to Grand Slam finals the way that Guga did. And you know, Juan Vontka has had a lot of hype and he hasn't lived up to it. It is very hard to do that, especially when you're coming from such a place with such hype and expectations. And I agree, I think he majorly leveled up. I think that the nice thing about these Masters one thousand tournaments is everybody watches them. Everybody's there, and they're proving grounds for these big moments where even though he lost in two tie breaks, he has to feel very very good about where he goes from here, and as you say, going to Miami from here, where he's going to have an absolute mad house full of support, has got to feel exciting.

00:14:03
Speaker 2: Do you think that he'll get on a bigger court this year instead of having to remove him onto another court. At least that will happened. Can I just ask the one thing though, that I do think that he needs to work on, you know, I like to just nitpick at the small things, even though he's so great, is his second serve. And I think that's what hurt him a little bit yesterday, is that his second serve doesn't jump off the court and really hurt someone like Yannick Enough. And we saw it, you know, got to six all in the tie break in the first set, and he smashes a forehand winner off a second serve. Even on match points, same thing smashes the forehand again for a winner. When you play against Janick Sinner like our Karaz does, you've got to kick the shit out of that thing and get it out of his hitting zone because if you don't, you're going to be in real trouble. So there's one area that he needs to improve on going forward. There's a lot of things that he can get a little bit better. And that's what makes a difference between the greats, you know, the very good and the greats, is that they don't have a lot of them to talk about this ad nauseum. They don't have a lot of weaknesses, and so that's the one area they think he can prove on the second serve. And you know, look at look at Carlos this year. He's he changed his service motion at the start of the year, which is fantastic considering how well he played last year. So a little little things like that, So I'm really happy for Sponseca. I think that would have given him a lot of impotence to say that he can hang with someone as good as Sinner and maybe make his way back. And Victoria Mbocco, like Mbucco, is playing great. And I tell you what, I'm looking forward to the Sablenka match because I think that's going to be a little bit tighter than we expect. She looked awesome. Amanda Anisonova was like all over the place. She was getting so frustrated and pissed off on the court and making too many errors, particularly on the forehand. But Embocco is just she's here to stay, Yeah, to stay.

00:15:45
Speaker 3: I kind of got the sense watching that match that emanaging is him of a who we love watching and obviously who's had a steady, just performance after performance in the last you know, year or so, I kind of got the impression that she was trying to hit Victoria and Boko off the court.

00:16:04
Speaker 1: And then it just didn't work.

00:16:05
Speaker 3: And she's well, she moves too well, and Boko really has a complete game. You know, obviously listening to the podcast will remember that last year, right around the Rogers Cup time, she really broke out. She beat Namasaka in a in a final that was really pretty one way traffic considering Miami had had a very good tournament, and I think you're right that Sablenka match will be very exciting. I actually had a chance to hang out with Victoria and Boco a little bit last week. We were doing a project with Wilson, and she was incredibly energetic. She was very positive. I mean, hanging out with the young kids can really vary. Sometimes they're sort of nuts and scattered. Sometimes they're totally surrounded by an entourage and already kind of too big for their breeches. And she was neither of those things. She was fresh faced, she was excited, she was energized, and I think getting ready. I hope for a really good.

00:16:54
Speaker 1: Run, and you know, Sabolenka, we should talk about it for a second.

00:16:58
Speaker 3: She obviously, you know, took out Naomi Osaka yesterday and that was a good quality match. You know, these two have had some pretty epic battles, maybe even a sliding doors moment there a couple of years ago at Theosop and where Naomi Osaka went on to win the tournament and the only person who really looked like she was going to stop her was Sablanca. Sabalanka had a couple of years where she couldn't get past the semi broke through herself. And now you know, the tables have kind of turned. They have a little bit of personal not animosity, but they have some team members that have defected from one side to the other. So it's a really interesting like watching kind of the surrounding drama of that. And you know, I said it this year, I don't think Sabolenka, despite you know, her brand new giant engagement ring and her brand new adorable puppy and obviously all her swagger and magazine covers and all that stuff.

00:17:47
Speaker 1: Her actual tennis has felt vulnerable to me. And I don't think she's at the full strength of her powers.

00:17:57
Speaker 2: Hey, you what though, I tell you where she's improving, and I look out, everybody is her net game and Max Meerney has added this like willingness and want to finish balls at the net, and I just think that is such a smart move if she keeps implementing that into her game. And I know, I spoke to Max Adestra and open about it a little bit, and he's like, she's willing to do it, She's willing to put the effort in, she's willing to change it up, and I just there's nothing better than a great player adding adding, not staying at the same level. I think Justine and I was like that back in her day. I used to remember watching her after winning a Grand Slam start adding serving and bawling into a game. I was like, what the hell's happening down there, and she'd hit it. She'd do it for an hour. So I mean, I love that aspect for her and so for me. Sabolenka and you know, as of now with this podcast timing, Eager Schiantek just absolutely crushed the Kova and this chord is great for Eager, So it might be an interesting matchup if we see those two play against each other, because I feel like Sabalank is playing really well and clearly Ega loves this court, and so that will be an interesting if they get to play against each other.

00:19:05
Speaker 1: I think it's time.

00:19:06
Speaker 3: It's time that Ega had a good tournament, and I think we especially going into what is going to be upon us very quickly, which is the clay court season, which is obviously part of the year that she really really does well, it would be fantastic And I'm you know, I'm not trying to set expectations too high. She doesn't have to walk away with the trophy here either here in Miami, but I think just going deep, having some big wins, having some big performances like she did against Mukhova, who you know, Mclova has looked great. She obviously took home a title in the Middle East, and when she stays healthy, she's about the most dangerous player on tour, at least certainly the most varied and versatile up there with somebody like Miro Andreva. So for me, just again, the women's tour is just so so so deep, it's so good, it's so varied, and there's so many voices, you know, looking at Victoria and Boca. Let's see, let's see what happens in this next round. I can't help but roote for her. Given are shared. She's a Canadian and she's nice and she's awesome, and you know, I.

00:20:04
Speaker 1: Just good kids finished first relationships.

00:20:10
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by BNP Pariy BArch. When we were at the tournament, we got a chance to sit down with her head of Marketing and Communications for the Americas at BNP Parry Bar, Michaelle Spratt. She talked to us about why it matters so much for the bank to be there and why they're support of the tournament means so much so.

00:20:25
Speaker 5: Our love affair with tennis began more than fifty years ago, actually in nineteen seventy three, when the French Tennis Federation asked us to help them with some renovations with Rolin Gaross and we haven't stopped supporting the sport since then. We are committed to supporting tennis at every level, from the professional tournaments the Roland Garros is of the world, the thousand point tournaments that we have here at the BNP Prower are open, and also importantly tennis at a community level. We really want to bring this sport to everyone and believe it shares a lot of value with us, the values of fair play, commitment and performance and excellence, which is really important for us as a bank. The programs that we build in our local communities are all about making tennis more accessible to everyone.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: We want more people.

00:21:15
Speaker 5: To be playing the sport and we also want to make sure that the sport is fair and equitable as well. And so you know here at the BNP prow of our openness is our eighteenth year is being the title sponsor. It has had equal prize money since two thousand and ten, which is incredibly important to us. And yeah, we hope to see the sport continue to go from strength to strength.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: Power before we get to the a little bit of the downswing disasters, because.

00:21:48
Speaker 1: You know, we'd like to there's been a positive as we.

00:21:50
Speaker 2: Can is Talia Gibson from Australia. Can I just give a little shout out too little Towels. She's not little, she's like five eleven. What an amazing effort, What a great tournament she's had, She's gotten through qualifying, She's beaten some amazing players along the way. Towson yesterday she took out Paolini. Now she's playing against Noskova, who she played at the Australian Open, and who she beat at the Australian Open. I believe that she I did that match. I should know. But like, incredible tournament from this young Australian that I tell you for a long long time we've been talking about who is what generation of the Australians after Ashbarti can come through. And I can tell you Talia Gibson is a player that can really win a lot of matches on tour. Why she hits the ball amazingly well and her movement has improved so much. And to take out someone like you know, Paolini in a three set match after losing the second set and coming back and like composing herself and winning the third set, to me, this is one of the stories of the tournament. And look, we've had some we've had some people win this tournament or get to the finals, so have breakout tournaments. And I just want to say congrats to Talia Gibson. She's through to the quarterfinals in the biggest tournament of her career so far. And we'll play in Oscover. So two really young, exciting, big massive hitters of the ball and they will go up if they win. That'll be the semi final against Sabolenka and Embocco. So I'm just from an Australian standpoint, I'm super happy to see it because we've been waiting for that next play to come along and yeah, so some interesting matchups. Can we get to that little bit of the disasters.

00:23:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, although I do want to shout out Lily Tagger, the Austrian with a one handed backhand axciting to see. We actually actually a bit of a fun dispatch going on up at racketmag dot com and on our socials. We've been sending our trusty reporters and photographers all around. We've got some little snippets of all sorts of matches. The one that's in the works today is hilarious. We got one coming about redheads. We've done a dispatch about dogs and obviously some of the bigger matches.

00:24:06
Speaker 1: And we were excited to call it Lily Tagger.

00:24:08
Speaker 3: And her beautiful one hit her back end. So you know, again the embarrassment of riches that is tennis styles, personalities, wardrobe accessories in the form of pets. You know, it's just it really is the gift that keeps on giving. Now that we've shouted out all the fun stuff, let's get to the disastrous stuff.

00:24:25
Speaker 2: Let's get to the defending women's champion. In Mirra Andreva's little meltdown on the court after losing. Look, the crowd were certainly very boisterous in wanting her opponents to win in a lot of ways, but the way she handled walking off the court, she cannot tell the crowd to fuck off like it's just it. She did it in Australia in a situation then they didn't really know there was a lot going on there as well. But this situation, she's got to get She's got to figure it out because she too good a player. She had a lot of pressure on her shoulders. Not winning in the Middle East where she won last year, and not winning Indian Wells again, her ranking will drop and that was not a good look. And I hate to see it because speaking of someone you know who did something at Wilson, she's a great kid off the court. She's really a sweetheart. She's a lot of fun. She's funny, but it's just she just loses her mind on the court. It's kind of like she's like a I don't know, like a Bubleck Medvedev, Like when they lose this shit, it's just like, oh my god, bring it back, really back, girlfriend.

00:25:35
Speaker 3: I think if only because she gave us the reaction chat of that lady literally clutching her pearls, am.

00:25:44
Speaker 1: I gonna look past this one?

00:25:46
Speaker 3: I mean I get that there's a you know, folks want to point out that there's a double standard, and you know, at what point.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: Is youth excused? I don't know. I mean, maybe it's just because we know her. I actually sang a little total eclipse of the heart on set with her last week. She's emotional, but she's not destructive.

00:26:08
Speaker 3: And to me her her outbursts are self inflicted, right, And I think we typically, certainly when we're talking about Bublik or all of my crazy frenchmen that I love, you know, there's a difference between the players, certainly Andre Rubelev, who kind of put their insanity inward, versus those who are bullying or being jerks to the staff umpires or other folks. And to me, that's she's definitely not that. And I think, you know, again, it's not great. I don't love that that's how this tournament ended for her, especially as the defending champion. But again, like there is a big difference between the two where you're directing vitual inward and in a self destructive way or outward in a in an explosive way.

00:26:58
Speaker 1: Maybe this was a little bit of both. But yeah, I mean, I.

00:27:00
Speaker 2: Loved I think you're trying your best here. But I think the bottom line is, you know, as a player, especially once so young, you are coming back to Indian Wealth, Okay, You're coming back to the same place for probably ten to fifteen more years, and you want people to like you and that you want support. And as somebody who as we do know her, we wish that she would understand get people to understand the good side of her. And when you yell to the crowd on the way out the door, fuck you, fuck all of you, and trust me when I tell you, do you The amount of the times I've wanted to say to people in the crowd, fuck you, fuck all of you is many times. But it's like, you can't do that. You just have to be more of a professional, and at some point we have to say you can't keep saying she's young, okay, because Oka Goth is younger than all of them, you know, in a lot of ways over the last five years, and has never done something like that. I mean, she did that thing at these straight and open but you know, God, lover, she thought she was out of the camera's purview and smash the shit out of a racket. But you don't see, you just got to You just gotta handle yourself a little bit, a little bit better.

00:28:08
Speaker 3: I do think that this timing coincides with her needing to take a hard look in the mirror anyway about her tennis.

00:28:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's a problem.

00:28:18
Speaker 3: You know, like she's not she's not looking the kind of joyous and free swinging that we've seen her. And you know, again, part of this is like transitioning from being a touted junior or a touted young player who gets early success and getting into the you know, the the meat and potatoes of your career. And I think now would be a great time to really think about what it is she's doing. Maybe you hit the reset button, take a minute, and and come back when she's ready.

00:28:47
Speaker 2: A great another player that struggled and has been struggling this year, And I do put it down a little bit of his pre season before the Austraine Open and his injury with his knee. I believe it was is Taylor Fritz. Taylor lost to Michelson yesterday. He came back in the second said Michelson served for the match, and he came back and he thought, Okay, he's gonna win the sat He'll probably win the match, and then he didn't. And you know, it's a shame for Taylor in a lot of ways because if he had grinded I went out in three sets. I think physically it would actually help him. Taylor has been over the last few years one of the toughest outs. Like he is so fit and he just keeps going. He's like a machine. And I just feel like without that preseason, without that really hard training he had before, I think he's struggling to get that grinding maturity patient Taylor Fritz back and he's you know, getting powdery. I mean, he speaking of breaking a racket. He lost his servant. He just broke his racket over his knee. Impressive. I gotta stay impressive. But like I just I just wonder how much this has to do with his physicality and not being able to have just hang in there, because he was arguably one of the toughest grinders over the last few years in winning like really tough matches, and I just feel like he just doesn't have that anymore. But credit to Michelson who got the job done in the end.

00:30:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

00:30:06
Speaker 3: I mean, Alex Nicholson is also very easy to root for. He's lovely, He kind of has a jocular, hang loose kind of energy on court, and you know, I'm really excited not only about him, but lerner Tin, like I now so much more of an appreciation for this really exciting young generation. Jacob Mensick, wha I also saw, who obviously won Miami last year kind of I don't want to say out of the blue, but you know, certainly not on anybody's dance card that he was gonna, you know, take home that trophy. So for me, just you know, we've talked about on the show a lot the kind of lack of depth in the men's field, and if you look at you know, the gap between Carlos and Center, especially now Carlos and Sinner and then everybody else, it still holds very true. But it does sort of seem to me that this next gen or maybe the next next next gen is.

00:31:01
Speaker 2: Next gen has gone Titzer passes and all those.

00:31:03
Speaker 1: That's already over.

00:31:04
Speaker 3: And then even the generation after the Titsu passes and the Medvedevs and the the Zverevs, you know, they're also not bringing it to the table. But the young ones, the really really you know, just like twenty one to twenty two year old guys. That's actually really interesting.

00:31:20
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, Well, Janick Sinner has to play Learner ten now, so after beating Fonseca, you know, he's having to play that generation that are going to be nipping at his heels for another ten to fifteen years, you know. And so Leerna Tien is going to be listen. Leerna was down a couple of match points, played a great one first match point, he really dug in, hit some great shots. He hit a huge serve down on the other match point against a little Dividina division.

00:31:49
Speaker 1: What about it? Man?

00:31:50
Speaker 2: I always blank on his name. I'm so sorry, buddy, but he he I just feel so bad for him because he's just got here, must have so many ghosts that live in his head after losing tournaments up match point and now this match up, match points, and he's probably like he just needs to stick his head in the sand for like a week. But Lon and Janicks are going to play against each other, and it's going to be a lot of fun to see because talk about some shot making. I'm actually pretty excited about some of the men's action. But can I just say Alcarez losing a set which he hasn't lost for a little while, but to come back and win the third set against Rindy Kinish, he did not lose one point on his serve in the third set. Was it Rindy Kinesh that he beat? No, No, it was who was it? I'm blanking? Let me let me look up this. Let me look up the draw as the professional that I am. Alcarez render Kanesh. I was correct, Caitlin, I was correct when he beat Rinder Kinesh. He lost the first set seven to six, and he turns it around and in the third set he did not lose one point on his surf, so he wins the third set. Love love every service game, Love to love to love to love. I mean, it's just unbelievable. And some of the shots that he's hitting, he hit one foehand against Grigor Demetrov. That was all over the internet a couple of days ago. That was like insane. It was so insane that Gregor Demetro started laughing and gave him a high five, like what the fuck you know? And that's what you laugh about about Carlos so that even his opponents are like, dude.

00:33:24
Speaker 1: That's so good.

00:33:26
Speaker 2: But it's he's going to be tough to be on this court with that ball jumping up. I'm excited. It's getting down to the nuts and bolts with the men's Cam Norri's back. He's of course won the tournament here a bunch of years ago. He's through in the drawer as well. So hey, Cam's finding his which is unusual on this cord, Like it's it's I don't know why he does well on this court. It doesn't feel like it should suit him, but but but it really does. And little Rinky hitcha kater, my guy from Australia, Australia, is having a great tournament. He gets through against the old Bublick yesterday and so I'm super happy for Rinky because he's such a hard worker and he just kind came through yesterday with some incredible ballsy tennis and God, he can move around the court. So I'm super I'm super pumped for Rinky Caitlin. Can I just ask you one thing about the tickets in Indian Worlds. There's been a bunch of people that have complained about these big courts on the outside, and as good and as amazing as this tournament is, how many times we've seen matches on the outside courts like Garden, you know, the Stadium one and two like not the major court and it's empty because they're still trying to sell tickets at night on those second and third big courts. What do you think about opening those courts up to grounds passes at night?

00:34:45
Speaker 1: One hundred percent.

00:34:46
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things that has been controversial about this year's tournament is Stadium two used to not be ticketed. It used to have the ability to be serving the grounds pass community, which everybody knows Week one and the better move is to get a grounds pass and just look at all the practices going on and watch the matches by queuing up.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: I think, don't you.

00:35:08
Speaker 2: Think if you're a die hard like you, you would be that you got a badge. But if you were to buy a ticket. Don't you think those per people that have stuck around all day are the first people to go, oh my god, I'm going to go in and watch so and so on stadium too.

00:35:23
Speaker 3: I think the fact that any match that is the quality of Victoria and Boco and Amanda Nissimova that has willing tennis fans but empty stands unacceptable, unacceptable. And I think a major failing on this part of this year's tournament has been that decision to change Stadium two from grounds pass to ticket Now.

00:35:49
Speaker 1: I think generally speaking.

00:35:51
Speaker 3: And I'm going to say something extremely controversial, but I mean, yes, I don't think any tournament should be double dipping and selling night session tickets. I think it's an unmitigated disaster. I think it's created a scheduling problem across tennis. I think I get why they do it. It's obviously commerce. But in Man they've never had a problem with this before because people bought the ticket and stayed as long as they could, and you know, tickets at a place like Wimbledon could be resolved to fans who Q of people are leaving.

00:36:25
Speaker 2: I will say this one thing. The Australian Open and the US Open, where they do do the too write. I think the difference there is most people are working right and to go at night. It is very different right US Open Australian Open, you buy a separate ticket. I don't mind it as much at the Slams because I think I feel like you've also got to make a lot of money there, you know, and whatever. But I think these particular tournaments, like in Indian Wells, I think those you get an older crowd as well. Go to Indian Wells and you get people that are a lot of retirees or people that go there for a week or two and they really do spend the two weeks there and they play but a golf or they you know, I mean restaurants there aren't open up after bloody ten o'clock in Indian Wells. If anyone's been, they know what I'm talking about. So it's like it's kind of that's not the tournament, like you said, to have a two slot night and day, because it just doesn't lend itself to the actual people buying tickets. Whereas the US opens a little different. People will buy night tickets because they know they're guaranteed night matches and they don't have to you know, have to share them with anyone else, and it's a different situation, whereas this tournament is for me. It's different.

00:37:39
Speaker 3: I mean, I would go so far as to say it's been an experiment that hasn't worked, especially because most of these tournaments don't make that much money on ticketed experiences. It's mostly brand partnerships and it's mostly broadcast, so just make sure that the.

00:37:54
Speaker 1: Stands are full.

00:37:55
Speaker 3: So, yes, I agree that there's some additional revenue opportunities the same product, essentially the session available twice, but I actually think we should just scrap it, make tennis really easy, and continue to make money by creating more viewership opportunities because the crowds are part of the viewing experience. Even at home, if I'm watching tennis, I want to see a crowd that's engaged into it. I don't want to see a crowd that's not existent. And that goes for everything we've talked about in China, we've talked about in the Middle East, we talked about it.

00:38:25
Speaker 1: You know.

00:38:27
Speaker 3: It at four am matches at the US Open. It's a failure if that happens. So we should be trying to do everything we can to avoid it.

00:38:36
Speaker 2: Agreed a grade, agreed across the board. One little thing when we're talking about Rindikanish, our Friendnick Rindikanish, I don't know if you saw the doubles match with Novak Jocoviitch the other day, but Novak Djokovic used the hawkeye to check his opponent doing some nefarious shit on the baseline, like waving his racket around like a like he was bringing in a plane into them. And Novak was one hundred percent right and sits a pass miss the overhead, which frankly shouldn't miss it overhead, but still it's not the point. At the point is Rindi Kinish is like, you know, swelling his racket around, and Novak's like, WHOA had a second? You need to take a look at that on the replay, and sure enough he was right. Rinder Kinisch was like, what the fuck, dude, what are you doing? Like how old are you? You did that shit when you're like ten years of age? Actually I never did it, But when you're like ten years of age, maybe you do something dumb like that and then your parents go, uh, what was that? You? You can't do that in tennis, you can't distract your opponent by waving your racket around unless some people have talked about Eager doing that at the net. Sometimes she's gotten a little, you know, but I think it's a bit of a tick with This was so obvious. It was just like, oh my god, dude. And then he's like kind of laughed and off, like it's like, what in your brain actually makes you think to do that on tennis, Scott, I don't even know. And Novak was like, na, Brah, I love it.

00:39:59
Speaker 3: I love it the more drama that goes down in doubles. Also, you didn't mention the titsy pass and Novak we're playing doubles together, which I also love.

00:40:06
Speaker 1: Just the whole thing. I love it. I love it.

00:40:08
Speaker 2: The Wills is great like that. I mean, that's where you get a lot of time. Now they're playing this doubles, This mixed doubles tournament out there, Venus Williams is playing mixed doubles, are still out there, So I mean, if you buy tickets to this tournament, you are getting a plethora of tennis and a plethora of the greatest players on the tennis court giving you a show. So for me, it can't get any better.

00:40:34
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by BMP Parry Bar. When we were at the tournament, we got a chance to sit down with their head of Marketing and Communications for the Americas at BNP Parry Bar, Michelle Spratt. If you talked to us about why it matters so much for the bank to be there and why they're support of the tournament means so much.

00:40:49
Speaker 5: So we started planning this event basically the moment that we get back to New York, and so for eleven and a half months of the year, we're getting ready for this amazing tournament. As one of the largest sponsors of tennis in the world, it's incredibly important to us.

00:41:05
Speaker 2: It's the biggest event that we have in the.

00:41:07
Speaker 5: US, and we all look forward to heading out here from New York, not only because we're coming out of a often a really brutal winter, but just because this is a really happy place to be. We're bringing all of our best clients from across the Americas and also across Europe and Asia Pacific, and we get together here for a really unique combination of business of combining that with networking and watching tennis playing tennis meeting tennis legends. It's a really unique combination for us, and we're excited to be here and yeah, every year we're again counting down to to the being to.

00:41:45
Speaker 2: Be proud by Open. Something also that was a little bit let's stay controversial all this week, was a little bit of a Chris Eubanks a little soiree. I don't know if you saw it, what did you think about that tail?

00:42:08
Speaker 1: It was an interesting sort of tetis head. I mean, I as well.

00:42:12
Speaker 3: As you have been so excited about Chris you Banks joining Tennis channel. He's been compensating for ESPN. He was part of the French Open coverage last year. That was the first under the HBO Warner zaslav Era, which I guess now is owned by the Ellisons. So we'll see what this year has to offer us. Chris and Coco were talking about SERB speed.

00:42:33
Speaker 1: There was a little playful ribbing that seemed a little less.

00:42:37
Speaker 3: Than playful when Chris kind of pointed out that Coco can sometimes center herself in her stories and he likes to instead focus on the athletes. You could plausibly say this was a little bit of a joke. But given the reaction to it, and frankly like kind of how much of an edge there was to the tone, Like maybe it wasn't so much of a joke.

00:42:58
Speaker 1: How did you take that?

00:43:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when when when I saw it somebody sent it to me, I was like, well, that didn't come off so well for everybody. To be honest, I think both would probably whether it was a joke, whether it meant to be a joke, it didn't look great on TV, and nobody, nobody, nobody wins something like that, whether it's somebody's right, somebody's making a point, or somebody's ribbing someone or whatever in the end. I mean, I just know I've been working in this industry way too long now to know that. You you keep whether whether it was a joke, it didn't come off that way, so you've got to be a little bit more aware of like how it's perceived. But also at the same time, if it wasn't a joke, then you got to be a little bit more careful about about how you do that on air, because unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who is in the right or wrong, or who likes it or doesn't like it, it's going to live on the Internet, and so I think Chris, and I definitely think Chris probably wishes that he could have redone that whole segment, whether or not people think he was right or wrong in his assessment. And I think he's probably quite self aware of how it looked in the end. I think he probably wishes he could redo it.

00:44:19
Speaker 1: I do think there is something to disc.

00:44:21
Speaker 2: Whether you agree with him or not. That's not let's just get that straight. I'm not saying I agree with Chris or Coco, or I like Chris, or I like Coco, or I dislike one or the other. That is not what this is about. In the end, it's how does it look to the viewer?

00:44:37
Speaker 3: And I do think there is an interesting side follow up because both of these guys are relatively new to the major leagues of broadcasting. Coco pre dated Chris just by a little bit and without implicating either of them, because I, as I think a lot of us, have been very excited about the fact that there's some new faces in these broadcasting booths. You know, some of the old timers can tend to center themselves and talk only about themselves and when they used to play tennis, and you know, and without resorting to being super agist, like some of these folks who are commentating haven't played tennis at a professional level since the past century or maybe even the past millennia. So I what I like so much about a commentator like Mary Carillo, even though she too played last professionally in the nineteen seventies, is she's up on our research, she's up on her prep, and she centers the athlete, and you wouldn't know that you played professional tennis except that she just asked so many incredible insightful questions and has such amazing insights to prompt.

00:45:40
Speaker 1: The listener with.

00:45:41
Speaker 3: So again, agree with Chris or Coco or whatever sides need to be taken. I do think I would love to see, especially as new faces get added to the booth, like focusing on honing their craft, because it is a craft, and if anything, you know you can speak to that certainly more than most, which is it's not an easy job and it requires a lot of work, almost as much as being a pro athlete.

00:46:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not an easy job, and you constantly are always sort of thinking about what you're saying and how people are going to perceive it. I mean we've said things on this podcast. I've gotten so much shit for it from time to time. But you know, live television is different. It is live. I mean, we can edit this podcast. You can edit out certain things that I've said that maybe you think and at times you're like, well, I took that bit out because I thought that might not go down so well. But live television is very different. So you're a little bit more You're a little bit more sort of you know, you bring in the margins way more in, and you're being a little bit careful about how you say things. And you know a lot of people have gotten in trouble in the past. I've said some things live on air. I've asked questions. One there was an incident years ago you and I've talked about it with Naomisaka that I wish I could redo that again. Funny enough, I had a producer in my year that said I did a great job. So you get this varying thing. But I know that there's many things that I would like to redo about live television. But that's what makes it really hard. So when people sort of throw, you know, shit against the wall against you, when you do unsafe stuff on live TV. I'm like, you try it. It's not that easy, and to be able to articulate something but also not be vanilla like. People don't want us to be vanilla. They don't want us to say the same thing over and over. And there are some people that are a little bit boring and maybe people like that. Certainly the networks might like that more. But also the networks love the guys that are a little bit more controversial. Look at stephen A Smith, look at you know, some of the people that are on that are on air. They're getting the most money because they're a little more controversial or saying shit that you wouldn't say normally to you know, to you seventy eight year old grandma. So I don't know, it's it was certainly a moment that it's going to live on for a little while. When it comes to those two.

00:47:53
Speaker 3: Well I I as ever, I am excited to hear more commentary, to continue to get more new voices, and to see most importantly who and how the last couple of days will be for ups and downs here in the final stretch of Indian Welles.

00:48:10
Speaker 1: I know you'll be watching.

00:48:11
Speaker 3: We'll have to check in as the tournament winds down and then Miami gets off the ground.

00:48:16
Speaker 1: Any parting words from you.

00:48:21
Speaker 2: No, I think it's exciting time in tennis. The downs, the couple of them, like the bidozes, the undresscues, the veck itches, the budozes, and Navarro's all went to Austin and played in a small tournament there. So you know, kudos to you people in Austin. They're getting some of the best women tennis players. Over the last couple of years, Emma Navarro has been struggling a lot. Listen, I don't want to say it, but she doesn't look fit and that's a problem. So she's gonna have to get herself back in that tip top shape because a couple of years ago, woof, was she in unbelievable shape. And I think it's a question that needs to be asked of her, like how much do you want this now? Because you know, it's been a rough twelve months for her coming back and for Bodoza same thing. A lot of injuries are going again against her. So anyway, I'm just excited. We've got so many great names in New Wahles is starting to really come together with some amazing wins and losses and great names in the draw, and Miami is around the corner, and I know it's one of your favorite tournaments, Caitlin, So we're just excited to bring it all to you and and everybody. I guess the bottom line is, thanks for joining us once again today. We really do appreciate it.

00:49:23
Speaker 1: And for anybody the rules blacked and reported, blocked and reported