Joe King of The Fray

00:00:07
Speaker 1: Let's see that's okay, because no one here is.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: Hello.

00:00:28
Speaker 3: It is time for another podcast episode, so let's teen the beat around. Nope, I'm embarrassed. I even tried that one. Okay, back to the drawing board. It's Danielle Fischel and this is Team Beat, a podcast where I interview interesting people about their teenage years, a time where they were possibly a little less interesting. I'm looking to connect with these celebrities and get the awkward truth, the embarrassing underbelly of life before the fame, when pimples and getting your driver's license were your biggest concerns, and yes, face all these challenges while beamed to millions of households as the female lead on a beloved family sitcom That was my life. So I see it like this. I gave you my childhood. It's time we hear yours. And my guest this week turned his Denver, Colorado church upbringing playing in bands with classmates into a multi platinum Grammy nominated career with songs that can bring you right back to an exact moment in your life with just a few opening notes. His band's debut album, two thousand and five's How to Save a Life went quadruple platinum and was part of a movement that bridged the gap for spiritually Christian rock music to enter the mainstream, a feat once considered totally impossible. Their biggest hit, the title track off the album How to Save A Life, became an all out aughts banger when it was first featured on both an episode of Grey's Anatomy then as the music for its upcoming season premiere promo. A massive musical achievement back when TV meant something, the song peaked at number three on the charts and tied Carlos Santana's Smooth as the seventh longest charting single at the time. With fifty eight consecutive weeks. They've survived rotating members, hiatus, exhaustion, numerous stages of the music industry, and I bet some sort of natural disaster so to have celebrated the twentieth anniversary of that first record with an international tour in twenty twenty five, and now a brand new album, A Light that waits available to stream everywhere. But even with all that musical success, I feel like behind the instrument and emotional lyrics, there could just be an awkward teen ready to chat. And so this week I'm excited to welcome to the newest episode of teen Beat. Vocalist and guitarist of The Fray Joe King.

00:02:51
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, thank you for having me.

00:02:54
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for being here. Listen.

00:02:56
Speaker 3: When iHeart said to me that there was even the possibility that I could interview you, I was like, drop everything.

00:03:03
Speaker 4: Clear my schedule, please make it happen.

00:03:05
Speaker 2: If they say he's very awkward, so this will work, well.

00:03:08
Speaker 4: They did not. Okay, and so I've had a couple of minutes to chat with you. You don't strike me as awkward.

00:03:13
Speaker 2: Oh, I lean into it.

00:03:15
Speaker 4: You Yeah, embrace the awkward absolutely.

00:03:17
Speaker 2: I think.

00:03:17
Speaker 5: Actually it was beautifully written, by the way that introduction, Thank you, that was wonderful.

00:03:23
Speaker 3: You you are deserving of isn't it cool to hear your accomplishments like read background.

00:03:28
Speaker 5: I just learned things too, like like oh, we did survive natural disasters.

00:03:32
Speaker 2: Am I exhausted?

00:03:34
Speaker 1: Still?

00:03:35
Speaker 2: You know?

00:03:35
Speaker 3: I threw in the exhaustion because I feel like, at least at my age, it's just everyone's a little exhausted.

00:03:41
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's yeah.

00:03:43
Speaker 5: So I promised to be awkward today, okay, And well let's just take you know, take it where it goes.

00:03:48
Speaker 4: I love it.

00:03:49
Speaker 3: Let's first start with Denver. Okay, you were born and raised in Colorado. As a California native, we were told that everyone who lives there was either a major hippie to Ken Bay Matombo. So where did you fall on that scale?

00:04:05
Speaker 5: Well, Denver, I mean it's changed so much right since since I was a little one, and you know, it was it was just more of a sports town for.

00:04:13
Speaker 2: A while growing up.

00:04:14
Speaker 5: I mean it was like if you weren't a Broncos fan, you were gonna have to run from people, so you needed to wrap the Broncos, which I still do proudly good.

00:04:25
Speaker 2: But then it became very like.

00:04:28
Speaker 5: Artist friendly town and like more of a music forward town because I think because first off, the people love to go see music, like like Denver rights like love going to see live music. Coupled with the fact that like some of the best venues in the world are there.

00:04:45
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if you've been to Red Rocks.

00:04:46
Speaker 4: I have not been there.

00:04:48
Speaker 2: You have to go see a show at Red Rocks.

00:04:50
Speaker 5: Everybody listen to this, go see you should go, like look up your favorite artists and go see a show at Red Rocks.

00:04:55
Speaker 2: It's it's legendary. Yeah, it's been around.

00:04:57
Speaker 5: It was it was a natural amphitheater. It was basically like used for like a church services before amplification. So they would sing I've heard.

00:05:08
Speaker 4: The Grateful I've heard Grateful Dead recordings there.

00:05:10
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the.

00:05:11
Speaker 5: Beatles have played there, Johnny Cash. I mean the history is on the walls backstage. So anyway, the venues in Denver provide, like you know, just for live music and people love going and so being an artist from there, I mean it was always our dream to play Red Rocks, you know, but yeah, we started there, and you know, like I said, Denver became more of a music town and then you've seen like over the years, you've seen artists come out of Denver every couple of years. It was like, well, Big Head Todd was early the samples, and then then we came on on the scene there and then from that point it was like there's a bank a group called three zero three Flobots if you remember, Yeah, they were Denver, and then Nathania Rylift and and then you know, Lumineerous guys live there. So it's like it's a it's just a beautiful scene. It's a beautiful place to be as an artist because home there's hometown pride.

00:06:04
Speaker 4: That's really great.

00:06:06
Speaker 3: Your dad was a pastor, Well, so did you grow up in church music? Like was were either of your parents musical?

00:06:13
Speaker 5: They they weren't musical. There was always church music around, and yes, that was that was what I what was I was exposed to early, you know, as a kid. And and honestly, some of those those old hymns and old uh you know, praise songs are gorgeous, like heart wrenchingly gorgeous, yes, and and melodically and even lyrically are very universal. And you know, so that I think there's there's also like I've met so many artists along the way that that have come up in the church.

00:06:46
Speaker 2: You know.

00:06:47
Speaker 5: I grew up in the church and learned how to you know, learned how to play church songs. And yeah, and there's something there with it. I don't know what it is in the water of these songs. It maybe like there's a pop sensibility or something in in church songs because if you think about it, like they need to be songs that people can sing right away, yeah, right, and they need to be lyrics that people can you know, connect to and emotionally like attached to. So I don't know, there was there was elements there that maybe was like preparing me for songwriting in general. But yeah, that was that was some of my backgrounds in the church.

00:07:22
Speaker 4: What was it like having a pastor for a father as a kid.

00:07:27
Speaker 5: That's been a that's been a journey to Yeah, yeah, well yeah, I mean there's you know, it's I couldn't you know, couldn't be myself. I loved I loved my childhood, Don't get me wrong, I do like you know, so I was so proud. I'm so proud of my dad and my mom for how they navigated life. I mean I was the youngest of five kids. You know, pastors don't make a lot of money.

00:07:55
Speaker 3: No, they're definitely not doing it because they want to make a bunch of banks.

00:07:58
Speaker 2: You're not.

00:07:58
Speaker 5: You're there because you're heart, you know, and you feel a greater purpose.

00:08:03
Speaker 2: So I knew that there was a greater purpose there, you know.

00:08:06
Speaker 5: But it was it was a struggle for the family to to to pay the bills.

00:08:11
Speaker 2: My mom was really the bread winner. She was a nurse, so you know, it ended.

00:08:18
Speaker 5: Up teaching me a lot first off, because you know, we had to contribute early, like to helping pay for soccer gear or sports stuff. So I remember having a newspaper route in the second grade and my brother and I would go out before school. We had it for my entire elementary you know, from second to sixth grade, delivering papers in the morning.

00:08:41
Speaker 2: You know, and you know, you make a little money and that.

00:08:45
Speaker 5: Would help pay for cleats and bags, so you know, yeah, it was the financial aspect was it was a struggle. And I saw that as I as I got older in my dad and it taking a toll on him that he was giving his life to help people.

00:09:05
Speaker 2: But yeah, his family was struggling. Yeah.

00:09:10
Speaker 5: So and outside of that, you know, being raised in the church, Yeah, like I said, I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin, Yeah, because I felt like I had to be you know, maybe like a version that like would make my parents proud or make God proud, right, and held.

00:09:26
Speaker 3: To a higher standard maybe also by everyone in the community, because you're a reflection of him.

00:09:32
Speaker 2: Right.

00:09:32
Speaker 5: So then I went to the dark side, and there were years I did. I became good at it, and you know, through junior high years early high school was in a lot of trouble really yeah, and it just was something in me.

00:09:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I needed I don't know if it was.

00:10:00
Speaker 5: The adrenaline, but doing things that I knew I wasn't supposed to do gave me this like this like this energy.

00:10:09
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:10:09
Speaker 5: And I was surrounded by friends that were wanting to do the same thing.

00:10:13
Speaker 4: Right.

00:10:14
Speaker 2: But what I got good at was not getting caught.

00:10:18
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:10:18
Speaker 3: See that's where you and I are so different. I I got caught all the time. Okay, Yeah, anytime I tried anything, I was immediately caught.

00:10:25
Speaker 4: I was. I was terrible at getting away with anything.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: So did just see it on your face?

00:10:30
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:10:30
Speaker 3: Both see it on my face. And also my mom was just like very in tune. You said you were the youngest of five, so one the babies of the family are always reckless.

00:10:41
Speaker 2: I think you're right for sure.

00:10:43
Speaker 4: They're just like, what do I have to lose?

00:10:45
Speaker 3: There's I've got too many parents because all your siblings feel like adults to you too, And so yeah, I think the first real bad thing I ever did was smoke a cigarette. And I think my mom I didn't even bother to try to not smell like it. My mom just knew right away, Like I can smell you. You smell like smoke. Like I was just bad at getting away with things. So I'm envious that you knew how to hide.

00:11:08
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the youngest thing.

00:11:10
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I certainly had to work on that in my adult life, like, oh, it's actually not good to hide.

00:11:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jack, Yeah, you don't want to be great at that.

00:11:17
Speaker 2: Don't want to be good at that.

00:11:18
Speaker 4: Only when you're a kid does it pay off, right, and some only sometimes?

00:11:21
Speaker 5: And it did literally because yeah, I speaking of cigarettes, I like there was there was there were grocery stores that I would go to and in the aisles they still had like chewing tobacco.

00:11:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, not behind the counter.

00:11:34
Speaker 4: Wow, okay.

00:11:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I wore.

00:11:36
Speaker 5: Baked jackets and would slip those big packages in my jacket and walk out and then sell them.

00:11:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you were an entrepreneur.

00:11:49
Speaker 2: I mean I was trying to contribute to the family exactly.

00:11:54
Speaker 3: Did it also make you working from the time you were in second grade and saying it was going to things like cleat? Did it make you more discerning about what you wanted to try, like what you what was like you wanted to play soccer or baseball because you're like I have, this is my money, I'm working hard for that.

00:12:11
Speaker 2: There is something to it because I didn't take it for granted.

00:12:14
Speaker 5: I knew that, like, Okay, these cleats, these Copa Adidas copas that I just bought with like kangaroo leather, like iron, those and I want to take care of those and I'm going to polish them and I'm going to keep them clean.

00:12:29
Speaker 2: And I was proud of those cleans, So it should be there's something.

00:12:35
Speaker 5: There's something in that, you know that it taught me to appreciation of things and also maybe since generation too.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: You know, I remember going with my mom to the grocery store.

00:12:45
Speaker 5: She would save coupons, we'd have, she'd have like every week, she'd have a stack of coupons that she'd cut out from mailers, from magazine, you know, all the stuff. So I'd go with her and it was my task to go with her to the grocery store and find these items.

00:13:02
Speaker 4: And we're in the coupon. That's what we're buying this week because we've got a coupon for it.

00:13:05
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you know, my reward was this chocolate pie at the end of it, which were like those those like crusted like almost cow zone.

00:13:15
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about, you know.

00:13:18
Speaker 5: At the time, and like, I was so excited to get that chocolate.

00:13:24
Speaker 4: That's so cute. I love that.

00:13:26
Speaker 3: My one of my chores growing up was I had to cook dinner with my mom every night, so I had to stay at My mom was a stay at home mom, and so she, you know, cleaned the house every day, She made dinner every night, and I would come home from school, have to clean up the dog poop in the backyard, everyone's favorite shore, and then come in get cleaned up, and then time to help my mom make dinner.

00:13:47
Speaker 4: And at the time, I remember thinking, oh why do I have to hell make dinner?

00:13:53
Speaker 3: And in hindsight, it's some of my favorite memories with my mom because all we would do just talk the whole time the vegetables, boil the water, and then just share about our days. And it's probably exactly how she knew the minute I did anything wrong then as a teenager, because she had been locked in with me every night while we cooked, she just knew me too. Well, right, was your dad a fan of your music?

00:14:28
Speaker 4: Is your dad a fan of your music.

00:14:30
Speaker 5: You know. That was an interesting process journey there too, you know, because I through high school, I started to like lead the praise band you know, at at my school and at church.

00:14:44
Speaker 2: My dad stopped pastoring.

00:14:45
Speaker 5: When I was in eighth grade, okay, and just transitioned into a different point in life. He honestly, he got burned out from what I when I talked about he just could not, you know, couldn't deal with not providing anymore for the fam.

00:15:02
Speaker 2: So he stepped away, pivoted.

00:15:05
Speaker 5: But you know, the church was always you know important still anyway, Like, yeah, I started playing church songs, and then I wanted to start a band, you know, and so in ninth grade I started my first.

00:15:16
Speaker 4: BANDO nin grade.

00:15:19
Speaker 5: We were we were called well, it was after I heard there was a band called Nirvana.

00:15:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course you may have heard of them.

00:15:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, you may have heard.

00:15:29
Speaker 5: Because I had older siblings, I was exposed to you know, music at a younger age, and.

00:15:34
Speaker 2: I loved like what they were listening to.

00:15:36
Speaker 5: And I remember my brother having his friends over and they put on Nevermind Smells like teen Spearit. It was in the winter time, and I heard this song and I my I started to like shake and like my heart rate was racing and and I couldn't help myself. And after that song, and I remember running upstairs in my underwear and immediately running out into the backyard which was which was covered with about six inches of snow, and just dove in the snow. What am I doing? But I'm feeling something. And I didn't put it together at that point, but I at that it just lit something in me. They're like, I want to I want to be in a band. I want to start a band. And so it was within a year or so ninth grade, so I started my first band, started writing songs, started playing songs anywhere you know I could, we could as a band. It was like, you know, our friend's party, at their mom's house or whatever.

00:16:44
Speaker 4: And how did you know how to start writing songs? Like what was that process for you? Because like, I don't know the first thing about writing a song.

00:16:51
Speaker 5: Honestly, I didn't. I didn't know I was a songwriter until my aunt gave me a guitar. And that was in the eighth grade, shortly after Nirvana. For a song I learned was come as you Are Wow. But once she gave me the guitar. I couldn't stop, I couldn't put it down, and it just I just started writing writing, you know, learned learned Nirvana, and then I just started writing songs. So it just wasn't like a thought out thing. But also it's interesting because I didn't know that I was that was supposed I was supposed to do that. It just it's interesting when I when I look back, even talking about it now, that like it took someone giving me an instrument, you know, or or like providing something you know, uh in life that you weren't expecting.

00:17:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and it changes the course of your life.

00:17:46
Speaker 4: Was it a new guitar? Was it one of her guitars?

00:17:48
Speaker 5: It was just it was it was it was called a Franciscan just an acoustic guitar, like not expensive, like just kind of a cheap one.

00:17:56
Speaker 4: Have you ever asked her what made her think?

00:17:59
Speaker 5: Like I have thanked her a thousand times and she is such a wonderful light to this day and in my life. And she feels like this sense of like you know, pride to and shared story that like she influenced you know, me becoming a musician by giving me an instrument. And and that's also something that like, you know, I've I've wanted to help when I can. Like I went back to my my middle school for instance, you know, a few years back, and tried to like you know, talk talk to the kids about music, talked about like you know, instruments, and just like getting an instrument in kids' hands, like give them the opportunity to like pick up something, yes, and play, just to see, because like you don't know in life until you try, you know, and like if you don't try, you'll definitely never know.

00:18:52
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was, it was, it was.

00:18:55
Speaker 3: It was a lucky gift that I feel such a sense of responsibility.

00:18:59
Speaker 4: I have two boys.

00:19:00
Speaker 3: I have a seven year old and an almost five year old, and I realized like from my mom, my mom growing up loved makeup and had she not been the child of two immigrant parents who thought that corporate America was where you needed to be. If you were going to be anything in this life, you needed to be in corporate America, the idea if she had said she wanted to be a makeup artist would have been so immediately shut down. But she literally didn't even know that was an option. And like the sense of responsibility when you realize that kids only know what their options are if you kind of reveal it to them, like, you know, providing opportunity to say, hey, you want to play this, you want to see if this is interesting to you? Like, thank god your aunt thought that for you, and it Look what came pouring out of you after.

00:19:51
Speaker 4: It's amazing.

00:19:52
Speaker 2: It's so true. So and it does.

00:19:54
Speaker 5: It takes other people. I think you can't see yourself clearly, right, You're right, like we're kind of mind it to who we who who we are in some ways, and then others can see it before you can, and like and they either recognize it or they tell you or they give you and it changes your life because then you see yourself clearly.

00:20:18
Speaker 2: Oh I am a musician. Oh I just needed this guitar?

00:20:22
Speaker 4: Yes?

00:20:22
Speaker 3: Yes, Were you ever sneaking CDs around? Was there any music your parents did not want you to listen to.

00:20:29
Speaker 4: That you had to listen to?

00:20:31
Speaker 2: So? Yes, I was around church music. That doesn't mean I was listening to church music. They had no idea. What I was listening to.

00:20:40
Speaker 5: Junior high years was all West Coast rap, the best. Yeah, that's what my friends was listening to that was like n w A. That was dre that era, and it was on my Walkman all the time.

00:20:58
Speaker 2: And loved it. So they had no idea that Bitches Ain't Shit was my go to song before matth Orry.

00:21:07
Speaker 4: They don't listen to this podcast, so you're good.

00:21:13
Speaker 3: My favorite album was Doggy Style Snoop Dogg's Doggy Style and we I had a family reunion in San Luis Obispo and it was the first year I started driving, So it was like nineteen ninety seven and I was in my Toyota Forerunner and I had my windows down. I was driving alone, just blasting that music. And I look back on in hindsight and I think, yeah, I can understand why my parents were like, oh, do you.

00:21:39
Speaker 4: This is what you want to listen to?

00:21:40
Speaker 3: But boy, it was the best of the best, just so much fun. Uh you know, the Fray and Boy Meets World do share a source of inspiration?

00:21:49
Speaker 2: What do we go?

00:21:50
Speaker 4: Counting crows?

00:21:51
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:21:52
Speaker 2: God? I mean how great? And like still great?

00:21:56
Speaker 4: So great.

00:21:57
Speaker 5: I am a fan of any band that's doing it, to be honest, and longevity in a band is so difficult to stay, to keep creating, to keep getting through like all the that you said, the natural disasters, yes, the personal disasters, they collective disasters, you know, egos, So it's just you know, it's multiple marriages in one and navigating that is.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: That's why all.

00:22:25
Speaker 5: Bands break up, change or evolve, you know, and we did all three of those things exactly.

00:22:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, adapting is one of the hardest things that an entity can do, especially while maintaining integrity, because how do you maintain integrity in an ever changing world and find trying to find where like you said, we don't necessarily see ourselves. So even then as a band or an artist, to see how your artistry has its own place in an ever changing landscape, it's a lot.

00:22:57
Speaker 4: So you're right.

00:22:57
Speaker 3: Anytime a band can do it and do it successfully for decades, they deserve creddit.

00:23:04
Speaker 4: Growing up in the church, What were your thoughts on Christian rock?

00:23:09
Speaker 5: So that's that's that's probably the one of the bigger misconceptions of our of our band is that we were not a Christian band.

00:23:18
Speaker 2: That that was never the intention. In fact, we were very intentional.

00:23:24
Speaker 5: About non Christian Christian band because because it was you know, it was first off, when I when I was writing these songs. I would early on, I would try them at church and they did not work. I was like, why don't they get why don't they question anything?

00:23:46
Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, am I the only one that's questioning this? Like what's going on?

00:23:51
Speaker 5: And I just realized that at that time, questioning wasn't really allowed, and I needed my art.

00:23:59
Speaker 2: To be free and my songs to be for.

00:24:06
Speaker 5: Everyone and not to have an answer, right, And so I realized, I want to I want to write these songs. We want to we want to start this band, and we want this music to be real and not the church music isn't real. I'm not saying that Christian rock isn't real. That's that's that's true, and it and it serves a purpose, you know, for me and for us. We just had more questions, yes, than we had answers. So those early records were all about questions. And in a way, I mean, if you look at music in general, or you know, rock, pop, rock, whatever, there's there's a sense of rebellion and and and for us, our rebellion was we're not in the church doing this. If they if the church wants to come, they can come to the bar and see us play, you know, because we want everybody to be able to see this.

00:24:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was hard for for my parents at first.

00:25:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, because I think that they they thought maybe I'd be the one like leading church service for you know, forty years playing playing songs every Sunday, right, and when they when they heard some of those early songs about you know, questions.

00:25:14
Speaker 4: It's a little uncomfortable, very yeah.

00:25:16
Speaker 2: Is it kind of it kind of shakes shakes.

00:25:19
Speaker 4: Up some things, Yeah, shakes your foundation. Yeah.

00:25:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, it was.

00:25:23
Speaker 5: You know, so that that is a misconception a bit of the of the band, and that's okay. I mean there's been other bands the same same type of thing. I mean Katy Perry was you know, started that way and she evolved and you know One Republic. They are good friends of mine, Ryan, you know, we've talked about it a bunch, and you know, so even Kings of Leon, guys like those guys came from you know, a preacher put your background and you know you realize like, okay, like what do you who are you?

00:25:51
Speaker 2: What do you want to say? Yeap, So yeah, that was that was a bit of the story for us.

00:25:57
Speaker 4: I think hearing you talk about that was making me think like the same way.

00:26:02
Speaker 3: So there's like the rock title, and then under the rock title you get Christian rock over here, and then you get like what you guys were doing. It's a little like boy Meets It's like a sitcom. You guys were like, we don't want to be a sitcom. You know, like Christian rock, it has a moral and it's wrapped up really nicely in twenty two minutes.

00:26:16
Speaker 2: Well, there was a thing called jpms. Have you ever heard of that?

00:26:20
Speaker 5: In the Christian scene at that time, if you were considered to be a Christian artist, you had to have a certain amount of Jesus per minute references.

00:26:27
Speaker 2: Jesus we had zero.

00:26:32
Speaker 4: Right, zero jpm's mom it was negative.

00:26:35
Speaker 5: It was like it got down there, negative fifty jpms. Yeah, but I remember the first actually it was interestly, the first label that came to check us out was a Christian label, okay, and we were playing a show in Denver and they after the show, you know, we went out and hung for a bit, and then it was like a couple of days later they circled back and we were just curious.

00:27:04
Speaker 2: And the labels was called Sparrow.

00:27:08
Speaker 5: And they circle back and they were like, you know, we're just it's just not you know, not our thing, and so you know, we're going to pass and we're That was interesting because if they would have offered something, it would have.

00:27:19
Speaker 3: Been hard to not look at it right right, because it would have really been faced with, like dow, we throw in a couple of jpms, do we.

00:27:28
Speaker 5: Get just just you know it's lowercase J little just every now and you know it's just a slight left jay just to get that, you know, just to quit our jobs. So but they passed, and.

00:27:49
Speaker 2: That was interesting because we didn't have to make the decision at all. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do.

00:27:57
Speaker 4: Better better without you.

00:27:59
Speaker 3: It's so in high school, that's where you meet Isaac Slade, right, yeah, okay, and he is a co founder of the band.

00:28:06
Speaker 4: Yes okay, and so what was how did you were you guys friends?

00:28:09
Speaker 2: Right away? We had competing bands.

00:28:11
Speaker 4: Oh in high school, I need a competing band story?

00:28:13
Speaker 2: We did? I mean my band was way better of course. Yeah, you know they opened for us.

00:28:18
Speaker 4: Okay, See.

00:28:21
Speaker 2: They were more j's exactly, they had more.

00:28:24
Speaker 4: J They were high on the GPH.

00:28:27
Speaker 2: He was heading the Jay Land for sure.

00:28:30
Speaker 5: No, we were in competing bands and I but I'd like had so much respect for him. He was one grade younger, and in that era, it's like I felt like a lot a big difference.

00:28:41
Speaker 4: Yeah, when you're fourteen and soone's thirteen, You're like he's a kid.

00:28:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, So you know we were we were friends but not close in high school and then you know, out of high school, didn't talk for you know, until I ran into him. It was a random day, but it was probably three and a half three and a half years, four years out of high school. My band had naturally fallen apart, of course, because the drummer had to go to college and I had to work and exactly, and so I was just like trying to figure out, like what am I going to do?

00:29:14
Speaker 2: How Like I want to play music. I don't know how I'm gonna do this.

00:29:17
Speaker 5: And I just was writing songs and knew I needed to somehow stay in it and whatever that meant at the time was just keep writing and you know, maybe like go to shows.

00:29:30
Speaker 2: And talk to people.

00:29:31
Speaker 5: And so this this specific day that absolutely changed my life was I went I was went to a guitar center.

00:29:40
Speaker 2: It was a music shop.

00:29:42
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

00:29:43
Speaker 2: And it came out of a place of just curiosity. I was just going to look at instruments.

00:29:46
Speaker 5: That day and just go hang around around and went in, played some guitars and then saw Isaac walking around.

00:29:55
Speaker 2: I was like, dude, what's up?

00:29:57
Speaker 5: Man? Hadn't seen him for three and a half years whatever, four years. He's like hey, like dude, what are you What are you doing? Like It's like I'm just writing and was like me too, Well should we write? Do you want to write something? Like we should we hang out next week?

00:30:13
Speaker 2: He was like sure, so so.

00:30:15
Speaker 4: Cute that like three or four years up prizes would be like you want to be friends?

00:30:18
Speaker 2: Yeah? And we you know, we got together next week. He played a song.

00:30:24
Speaker 5: I played a song and it was just like one of those like oh yeah you got that, Oh let me show you something like trying to impress each other of course for sure.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: And then we just started, you know, we just started writing and it was fire. It was just one of those like did we just fall in love? Yeah?

00:30:42
Speaker 4: This was special?

00:30:42
Speaker 2: Just did just this just happened?

00:30:44
Speaker 4: Wow?

00:30:45
Speaker 5: And it was then, you know, a day we were just like let's start, let's start this band let's let's do this. And we just started writing like constantly, and when do you start performing? We started playing shows shortly after that. You know, it was like backyards, graduation parties, like wherever we could play. We were not going to play in.

00:31:06
Speaker 3: The church, right, that's the one place you were like, we're not going to do there. Yeah, we're your friends all supportive.

00:31:11
Speaker 5: Friends were Yes, friends were supportive. I mean we begged them to come out to any show we had. You know, that's what you like when you're a new band or a new rs you.

00:31:20
Speaker 2: Need your friends.

00:31:21
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:31:22
Speaker 3: What was your marketing? Like, how were you getting like a graduation? How would you get to play that graduation?

00:31:28
Speaker 2: Okay?

00:31:28
Speaker 5: Marketing was print to flyer, you know with your band name, yep, Like photograph like go to go to Kinko's, put together a little flyer thing with your with your bands, your photo, make.

00:31:42
Speaker 2: It all cool, viby emao, and just pass those around.

00:31:47
Speaker 4: Everywhere, just everywhere.

00:31:49
Speaker 2: You can put them up on you know, on the on the pole, yeah, put.

00:31:53
Speaker 5: Them on the park bench, leave them at shows, go to a show, leave them on the merch desk at another band's show.

00:32:00
Speaker 4: And whose phone number was on there? Was it directly to one of mine? They call you for sure.

00:32:04
Speaker 5: Yeah, even on our early like EPs. So we'd burn, you know, we'd record two songs or whatever, three songs. We'd have these we'd make. We'd make a thousand copies and burn these CDs. Put our little slip you know, cover in, put you know, put our number on there. Pass those out, just like, you know, pass them out. Try to sell them, you know if you could. But just like pass them out. And then you'd get a call, you know, maybe like one person call be like, hey, I got a you know, backyard party. If you want to come, I'll put you up fifty bucks.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: You yeah, we're done, we're in. Okay, we'll bring fifty people if you want.

00:32:40
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, So far and then and then it became a little more like strategic, like all right, I'm gonna call every venue right when I look at like who's coming into town, and if they don't have an opener listed, like, I will say, I'll call them and I'll call the promoter. And I was hounding every venue in Denver just like, hey, on the nineteenth, you have such and such coming in?

00:33:03
Speaker 2: Is there an opener? So smart, we'll open we'll do it. We'll do it. I promise we'll bring fifty.

00:33:09
Speaker 4: People'll bring fifty people, will be great.

00:33:11
Speaker 2: And sure enough that that worked, you know, like here and there.

00:33:16
Speaker 3: It worked so smart, so smart to be like, I'm going to shoot my shot, because what's the worst thing?

00:33:20
Speaker 4: They say no?

00:33:21
Speaker 2: Right exactly? Yeah, okay.

00:33:23
Speaker 3: So I already wasn't going to do it until unless you asked, So like I'm going to ask and then if you say.

00:33:28
Speaker 4: Yes, now we've got a gig.

00:33:30
Speaker 5: So exactly. So we just kept writing songs. And by the way, you know, it's easier. It was easier in Denver to be a cover band, to play the bars and play the songs that people want to hear.

00:33:39
Speaker 2: The hard part was.

00:33:40
Speaker 5: Playing your songs right, because like right, you know, listen, we weren't good and you know what you said, it was fire?

00:33:47
Speaker 2: Well to us it was okay, okay, no one could see it.

00:33:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was fire was bubbling.

00:33:53
Speaker 2: Knew. I saw it in his eyes. He's out of my eyes.

00:33:56
Speaker 3: So I was doing the math and I feel like the fray must have been pretty dent on MySpace in the early days.

00:34:03
Speaker 4: So who was in your top eight?

00:34:08
Speaker 2: Oh? I wanted can I can I hear your top aid, I'm curious.

00:34:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, good question.

00:34:13
Speaker 3: Who was my top eight? My best friend Jamie, we're still best friends. There were definitely some guys whose names I have forgotten.

00:34:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't want to mention them. Yeah, yeah, same, I mean there were some.

00:34:27
Speaker 5: There was some girlfriends and girlfriends. Yeah, and there was my first kiss. I like just kept trying and couldn't bring Britney Baxter. Britney Baxter, and she was just she lived down the street, two blocks down in the greenhouse.

00:34:43
Speaker 4: Was she so cool?

00:34:44
Speaker 2: She was so cool? And I just tried for years, for years, Brittany and to see me now this is so do you know what she's doing? I don't. I have no idea.

00:34:55
Speaker 4: When was the last time you looked her up? A long time ago?

00:34:59
Speaker 2: Yeah it was a while back, okay, yeah, but.

00:35:01
Speaker 4: She married, she she was yeah, yep.

00:35:05
Speaker 2: So I was like, okays, he's good. Yeah, yeah, she's happy. I'm good. Okay, but that you know, everyone remembers that first first kiss.

00:35:13
Speaker 3: She was she was in the top eight, okay, top eight, if you were to go back to it, probably still in the top eight. So while I was researching for this interview, I was surprised how many times the Fray was referred to as pop punk.

00:35:26
Speaker 2: Interesting.

00:35:27
Speaker 4: Yes, I guess I just don't typically.

00:35:30
Speaker 3: Think of you as being grouped in with like the Warp Tour regulars of Fallout Boy or Panic at the Disco.

00:35:36
Speaker 4: Do you think of yourself as being pop punk whatever?

00:35:40
Speaker 5: Honestly, who cares the label exactly? Like however you want to pigeon us? If anything, I feel like we always just never belonged in a in a category because it's like, even even in the pop category at the time when when it was starting to work for us, you know, it's not like lyrics like bitterness are pop lyrics in a chorus, and and we didn't sound like what was happening on pop radio. And we're from Denver and we're isolated there, and so we were It always felt like we didn't know where the industry didn't know where to put us. We were lucky to like yesterday, a couple of days ago, we played in the Grammy Museum, and you know, honor to say that we lost four Grammys already, hope we.

00:36:31
Speaker 4: Lose more, continue to keep losing those Grammys.

00:36:34
Speaker 5: But like even the categories, they didn't know how to put our song? Is this in the pop group performance?

00:36:40
Speaker 2: Is this rock? We were in rock categories, we're in the pop category, so you know, we're just going to do our thing.

00:36:48
Speaker 4: I feel like that's such a compliment to really be so.

00:36:53
Speaker 3: Special and unique and of such a quality sound that it's hard to find a thing that we can easily how to gris you ask, like, I look, I think that's just that's such a compliment to you. Do you remember where you were when you found out that Grey's Anatomy was going to use your song?

00:37:23
Speaker 2: I do, well.

00:37:24
Speaker 5: First it was it was like as simple as an email, like, you know, a request for the license okay to use the song. How to Save Life was not a single at that time, our first single that actually changed.

00:37:40
Speaker 2: Our life, and it was over my head. Yeah, because that one in Denver just blew up.

00:37:47
Speaker 5: Like I was like calling the radio stations like every every time we had a new song, I would send them songs.

00:37:56
Speaker 4: Yeah and beg them to play please plase.

00:37:59
Speaker 5: Yes, and we we got said we you know, they turned down probably nine songs and then it was just another song that we had and I sent it to the program director of all the stations, all multiple and then they were like, you know, we're gonna play this on Sunday night.

00:38:14
Speaker 2: We got a locals are you know we'll play it.

00:38:16
Speaker 5: We were so excited, like we we knew it was between like six pm and eight pm. So we all met up at I think my parents' house and the stereo was broken and we had to climb in the minivan.

00:38:34
Speaker 4: Yes, listen in the minivan.

00:38:35
Speaker 5: And turn on the and just turn on the radio. And we were all just waiting for that moment. And when it came on, oh wow, we just sat there like giddy. And it ended and that minivan door came open and we jumped out of the grass and we're just starting to dance and we're like, oh, we just heard our song on the radio. Didn't know what was going to happen, you know, from that course, and literally the next morning they called the station called me and they were like, hey, like, we got a lot of calls on this song, and so we're gonna put this into rotation and uh And I remember him saying buckle up.

00:39:17
Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, you mean in the minivan I was last night? I was it was safe.

00:39:22
Speaker 5: There's air bags in there. So within four days, every label was calling my phone because remember I put him on the CD.

00:39:33
Speaker 4: And everyone had your number, and I was like trying to I was.

00:39:35
Speaker 2: Trying to be like manager guy. I was like, this is a joke in the fray. Yeah, who are you going, Leo from? What Sony? What are you gonna do for us?

00:39:47
Speaker 5: Leo?

00:39:47
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take it to dinner tonight. You're gonna flast to New York?

00:39:52
Speaker 4: What would stereos broken at home? I could use the hystereio.

00:39:55
Speaker 2: He got a Sony radio for him.

00:39:58
Speaker 5: So it became this frenzy of labels just reached out and it was an exciting time but also very scary because you don't know who to trust, right And so actually Ryan Tedder from One Republic was just a good friend at that point and I was and he no one knew about One Republic either, and so him and I were like bouncing people off each other, like, Hey, do you know this guy from Epic or do you know this guy from Columbia?

00:40:23
Speaker 4: And yeah, are these people decent?

00:40:25
Speaker 2: For sure?

00:40:25
Speaker 5: Because you know we know, like you hear about it, Yeah that it's a shady biz. Absolutely, And the artist gets screwed. Yeah, And I did not want to be that story right where we were just signing something we didn't know and or somebody was taking advantage of us.

00:40:43
Speaker 3: You were savvy to even know that, because you know a lot of people did not know and are willing to take Sparrow JPMS.

00:40:51
Speaker 5: It was the second grade newspaper out yea in the morning. I'm like, some day I'm not going to get screwed.

00:40:57
Speaker 3: Right, I know, I'm onto you. How long did it take then for your life to just completely change? After the episode aired?

00:41:05
Speaker 2: Right? So, after How to Save a Life aired, my grandmother called me and she was like, Joey, I heard your song on Gray's and had me and she was so excited and so proud. And that was the first call. Yeah, and she was like thrilled because she loved the show. I'm a betty yeah. And so I was like, oh, you does that what's on your It's on your radar? Yeah?

00:41:31
Speaker 5: And it was, you know, I think because the band was already we had a fan base, and we were already touring.

00:41:40
Speaker 2: You know, from over my head what was happening.

00:41:44
Speaker 5: The timing couldn't have been better, because I do think looking back, I've how to Save a Life was the first thing that happened for us through Grays. We may have been just super pigeoned into you know that.

00:41:58
Speaker 4: I only thankfully had over my head right far.

00:42:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that there was there was already, you know, like we were a band before that, right, and it.

00:42:06
Speaker 4: Was happening and so like Big Street cred already in a way.

00:42:11
Speaker 5: I don't know, but like at least our fans knew, yeah, you know exactly. I don't know if like like the core fans knew obviously, those that found us through how To through grades, you know, did so. And that's great, right, you know you're not gonna I mean you got to you know, get you get your music hurt somehow totally. And at that time too, there was there was I remember, like wrestling with the idea of licensing the song or any song to TV or commercials because there was like a there was there was a time where artists were like there was a it was a sellout.

00:42:44
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

00:42:44
Speaker 3: By the way, now you are applauded for selling out in twenty twenty six, everyone's like get that bag, honey.

00:42:50
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

00:42:51
Speaker 3: Back in the day, you even did anything that could be thought of as selling out and people were ready to attack you.

00:42:57
Speaker 5: Oh, and there was so it was a there was a big fear around this because artists were like, I don't know, press or something. We're hard on it if you license your song. And I remember before that Grays thing the man called Wilco that I love. They got a bunch of flak for a license that they did, and it was like everybody, it was so much blowback, and they issued a statement they were like, we we are sorry that we made money.

00:43:28
Speaker 3: I apologize that the thing I love to do and I'm very good at has been profitable for me.

00:43:34
Speaker 5: Which is funny because then five years later they reverse course and you know, and that's what you do because it's like, come on, I mean, we're artists.

00:43:41
Speaker 2: We gotta like we gotta eat you.

00:43:43
Speaker 5: Of course, so I remember wrestling with it and then we just was like all right, let's just do it and just say yes to this, and and then it became like it's just like then there was like scrubs and so many different like sinks, and I was like HBO and like just blown away with like how our music was being used, you know, and it didn't take anything away from like the integrity of the band exactly, you know, because we didn't write the songs for for those shows. We wrote them because they were true, you know, and they were they came from like we were talking about, they came from questions.

00:44:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:44:26
Speaker 5: In fact, it's funny because my publisher I remember signing, you know, my first publishing deal, and it was before any of the Sinks came through.

00:44:35
Speaker 2: We sat down to have the meeting when they heard the record and they.

00:44:38
Speaker 5: Told they told me they were like, we don't think there's anything on here that's licensable.

00:44:43
Speaker 2: It's just not a sink record. There's no sinks, you know, sink songs. And I was like, okay, well, why did you Why do we meet today? Right? So you never know?

00:44:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I trust me. We have some emails.

00:45:00
Speaker 3: Let's say I don't think Podmeats World is a podcast exactly.

00:45:03
Speaker 4: Okay, cool?

00:45:04
Speaker 2: Thanks.

00:45:05
Speaker 3: I found a very fun jingle ball from two thousand and nine and I wanted you to hear this lineup. Jordan Sparks, Jayshawn Cobra, Starship Hit Bull owl City, Justin Bieber.

00:45:16
Speaker 2: Yes, and the Fray Oh yes.

00:45:18
Speaker 3: If Spotify shuffled in that order, I might think I was hacked first time.

00:45:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my goodness.

00:45:27
Speaker 5: First off, justin Bieber, that was the first time we met, really and actually the last time time I've seen.

00:45:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't.

00:45:34
Speaker 5: I haven't seen him, so we just haven't crossed paths, although like friends will send me like help posts our song, you know, and our songs in general and vibing with the music. Yeah, And but I remember I didn't know him before that show because it was like right when he was it was happening. But I remember we played and then I was backstage in the frequency of screams.

00:46:07
Speaker 2: Was piercing through the wall, right and I was like, on the other side of a wall, what is going on in this arena right now?

00:46:17
Speaker 5: And so I went in there and it was like a pitch that I had to like plug my ears. Yeah yeah, And then I saw him up on stage. I was like, damn this, I'm just I'm seeing a legend right here, you know. And uh yeah, I mean I hope to collaborate with him at some point.

00:46:37
Speaker 4: That would be incredible something.

00:46:40
Speaker 2: If not, I'm always gonna be a fan.

00:46:42
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I would love to. I would love to see that. I really would. That sounds like a good crossover for me.

00:46:47
Speaker 4: Do you like doing radio shows.

00:46:50
Speaker 2: You know, for the reason.

00:46:53
Speaker 5: Of coming across an artist that you never would have not otherwise be a like been in the same circle. It's a bit of a like, okay, dance, you know, dance for now three seconds or you know, But I don't know, like I appreciate them. They're like they're they're banger you know, banger shows.

00:47:15
Speaker 2: You just play the hits and that's what it's about.

00:47:17
Speaker 4: Get out.

00:47:20
Speaker 5: So you know, we I'd be I'd be down. We actually did one maybe a year ago Teddy swims yes, and again to my point, like I hadn't you know, met Teddy. Yeah, And we were playing the same show and backstage we're just like hanging a vibe.

00:47:36
Speaker 2: In and saw his show.

00:47:39
Speaker 5: I just love him as a person, and we just got to like, you know, got to chat that night hang And then the next night we played a second radio show and I was like, dude, you want to like you want to come out and sing, like let's He's like, yeah, let's do let's go. Yeah, And so then it became a collaboration. Yeah, you know, and now we're friends and.

00:47:59
Speaker 4: So in that sense, yes, it introduces you like it.

00:48:03
Speaker 5: Art inspires art, Creative inspires creative, so like, yeah, I'm a fan.

00:48:09
Speaker 3: You celebrated twenty years of How to Save a Life last year with a world tour you played across in North America and Europe, all leading to the new album that just dropped. How does revisiting old music in such a big way affect when you're writing new music.

00:48:27
Speaker 5: It's a good question. I I don't think it's in my my orbit when I'm writing new music. I I just have to write what's true, and that's all I have control of. Like I don't want to try to replicate or try to worry. I don't worry about is this what are they going to think?

00:48:46
Speaker 2: This is pray?

00:48:48
Speaker 5: Or are they you know, going to connect to this because that was just that just I've been there before and that crushes me. It just kills my creative or it just feels forced and it's like fake or something. So I just have to just surrender to what's true, you know, And is this something I love? Is this something we love as a band, And really, at the end of the day, that's that's all we did at the beginning, and that's all we're doing now is just like release what's true, what we love enough to share with the world, and proud and proud that we're still doing this as a band and not only still but better. Yeah, And and like the shows are so fun, Like I love playing the body of work, you know, because there's more stars in the sky yep, you know, and they're all they're all there. You are a little spot in the sky whatever it is, like we get to we get to share those night after night, and you can feel the story in the room.

00:49:51
Speaker 3: And when you've had a career for as long as you have, that longevity gives you hindsight and now you can look back as you're playing songs from twenty years ago and you know how it all turns out. I mean, there's still a lot of future, so you don't know how it all turns out. But there's a different feeling when you have some space from some of your earlier art and are able to appreciate it in a new way. And now you are going to be out on the road with Dashboard Confessional for the Summer of Light tour. What is the biggest difference between Joking touring twenty years ago and jo King touring.

00:50:27
Speaker 5: Now, well, that's a good question. I'm certainly not worried about the same things. Okay, okay, so less worried about.

00:50:39
Speaker 2: You know, yeah what people think. Maybe I'm more worried about.

00:50:45
Speaker 5: Oh, I shouldn't drink that, right, I shouldn't eat that before the show, right, and then after the show I should probably rest.

00:50:54
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, I'm going to actually go to sleep, right, I'm going to drink by electrolyte water.

00:50:59
Speaker 5: I know it's it's geeky, you know, but I'm just like, if I want to have a longevity here, and I want to do this into my like seventies, pray to God, we can, like I want to.

00:51:11
Speaker 2: Sing these songs all the rest of my life, totally, you know. And so and I want to do it.

00:51:15
Speaker 5: Well, you know, I mean fans that come to these shows. I mean they spend their money, they spend their time, they spend it's hard to go to shows, like you gotta wait in lines, you gotta park, you got all this stuff, all these variables, these and they I want to give them the best. Yes, I want to give them our best. And so that just means making decisions differently, yeah, which means that you do not have them as much fun.

00:51:37
Speaker 3: Listen, you're preaching to the choir. I've been saying to people for a long time.

00:51:42
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

00:51:42
Speaker 3: I'm just not that fun anymore. I have fun in a different way now. Eight thirty pm in bed is so exciting.

00:51:49
Speaker 5: I love it, like with dashboard, like Chris like, I'm going to reach out to him soon, just so we can hang before the tour.

00:51:56
Speaker 4: Yes, because we're not going to have time if we try to hang on the Yeah, it's.

00:52:01
Speaker 2: We're gonna be midway through. We'll be like, hey, oh next week is it?

00:52:06
Speaker 1: Like?

00:52:06
Speaker 2: Is there?

00:52:07
Speaker 4: And then for the next one. But did I think things slow down?

00:52:09
Speaker 2: Guess what?

00:52:10
Speaker 4: They never slow down.

00:52:11
Speaker 2: I don't know. So I want to like hang with him before the tour start. Just vibe. Have an early dinner for sure, early dinner.

00:52:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, we can have our fun pre tour. Pre tour, we're gonna go hard, Chris and I are gonna go hard, hard, cold.

00:52:25
Speaker 3: Give yourself two weeks to recover before the startup. I'm not done with Joe King of the Fray quite yet. This Friday, we will have a bonus episode with Joe on the dedicated teen Beat podcast Feed so just search for us in your favorite streaming service and subscribe. That way, you will never miss another episode. We're even gonna listen to a voice memo from one of you that was willing to share the story from childhood that still keeps you up at night.

00:52:51
Speaker 4: And if you're down to clown, we want to hear from you.

00:52:54
Speaker 3: Just send a voice note of your tale to Teenbeatpod at gmail dot com and we just play it and make sure to check out the phrase new album A Light that Waits and see them on the Summer of Light tour date and more information is that The Fred is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel. Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production Danielle Romo, producer and editor Tara Subach.

00:53:20
Speaker 4: The theme song is by mar Coppus. Yes that Mark Coppus. Follow us on Instagram at teen Beatpod.