#281: Winter Bucket List

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Emma

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You're listening to the Beautiful Mess podcast, your cozy comfort listen. And this week we are sharing

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our winter bucket list, which is another way of saying how to survive the cold season if you live in a

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region like we do. And we'll also be debating a hot take that personally makes elsie's blood boil. So let's

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jump in.

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Elsie

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I'm so excited to get on that hill with my sword this week. But it's a fun one. It's a, it's a, it's a good one,

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actually, yeah, it is a good one, yeah. Okay, so winter bucket list, I feel like this one is like, more like

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about getting through the season than it is about appreciating the season. At least. Where we live in

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Missouri, I appreciate that we have all four seasons. I appreciate a snow day. I like it in a way. The first

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one's the best. First one's the best.

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Emma

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Gets progressive. The third one's worse. Yeah, if there's a fourth or fifth one, I want to die.

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Elsie

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If there's a whole bunch in a row, there's there's things, yeah. I mean, I'm glad I never have lived in a

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region where there was no four seasons. And I don't know how that would feel, but Emma, I remember,

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when she first lived in LA, she was like, you would hate it as soon as it was fall time and there was no,

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there was no fall, you know, and there's no like, winter people barbecue for Christmas, like, which is

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cute and in special. But yeah, for you, I do think I like, I do appreciate the winter, but yeah, in Missouri,

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it's a little more of a thing to survive. You know, we have the really short days, so a lot of us have the

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seasonal depression. And then for me, it's like, my yard is it's like my pride and joy. I love it so much.

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It's so beautiful, like sitting on the porch and just like, enjoy it. Like it's like a miniature Park. But this is

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the only time of year it's ugly, right? So unless it's snowing, it's just ugly. It's like, it's not everything so

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dead mangly And, yeah, dead looking. And it's spooky, but it's not spooky season, just sad, yeah, so we

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do definitely look forward to spring, though. I guess that's the good thing about it, is we'll be ready when

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that arrives.

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Emma

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I would say, I appreciate winter when I'm not currently living in it, yeah? Like when I think about it in the

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summer, I think about it fondly. I'm like, Oh, I remember when I was reading my book and drinking hot

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chocolate that one night, and it was snowing, and it's lovely, and when I'm living in it, I like to appreciate

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moments here and there, but I'm also like, what can I do today to be less sad? Yeah, that's what this list

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is about.

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Elsie

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It's true. Okay, so on that note, before we jump in, we had for six months, so Emma heard that in a

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suburb of our town, there was a romance only bookstore that opened, and I think she first told me about

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it, like in the spring or the summer, and she was like, we have to go. But you know, the months go by,

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the months go by, I don't shop a lot because I have my kids with me all the time, and they're not going

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to want to go to a romance only bookstore. Guess what we do when we have a weekday free we

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podcast like, we know what I mean.

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Emma

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So She's like, do you want to get lunch after and I'm like, I don't have time. My nanny's leaving. I gotta

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go. So anyway, so it took a lot of months before we went, and then we finally had a day. I was like, let's

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do it. And we drove. It only took, like, 2030 minutes to get there. It wasn't a big deal, you know. But we

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got there, we got we got there right when it was supposed to open, which is at 11am you know, I had

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checked what time, and, you know, because I I knew we could only be there for about 30 to 40 minutes,

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and then I'd need to head back, because, in my sketch, because it's my child cares up. So we get

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there, and we're there a couple minutes early, so we just park. We're just waiting. We're like, you know,

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kind of looking at the door, waiting for them to open. No big deal. We're chatting. And then I'm like, 10

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minutes after 11, I was like, Okay, let's try the door. Maybe we didn't see them unlock it, you know,

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because we've been talking. We go try the door, and it's not open. Okay, go back in the car, and we

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wait a little longer. And then I think it's like 25 minutes. And I was like, I think we're gonna have to go

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back, yeah, because this is kind of the all the time I had to be at the store. It was so sad. We were just

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standing there by the front door looking in at the whole store of romance books. I had brought my time.

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Okay, so we have a podcast listener, Ramona Muse Lambert. You can go to her website, Ramona

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news, lambert.com she sells this t shirt and a tote and other products. She has lots of cool products, but

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the thing I bought was, there's a t shirt, it's like, kind of a lavender purple color, and it has an illustration

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of a lady sitting at a table, and she has a book open that she's reading, and the cover just says, smut,

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yeah. And it's so cute, and I love it. And I bought the tote too, and I wore my shirt so we could go to the

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romance bookstore. So I had my little shirt on. Then it was, didn't open. And we were both very like,

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obviously disappointed. And I don't know when we'll get to go, kidding because here, but we also used

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to own a local business. So we were both just very like, ah, we get it. I'm sure there. Days we opened

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30 minutes later, an hour late. I didn't even notice that we did. So we're like, Okay, well, oh, well, yeah.

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So that's our disappointing story. To start this episode about sad season. I don't want to call it sad

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season. Let's call it hibernation season, because, like, you can have a lot of fun, but it's like, indoors

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and I actually like cold weather, like dressing this is my time of year for, like, sweaters and just layers. I

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love the clothes of this season. So that's like, one thing I love, and I also love hot tea. We're gonna get

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into it. But like, this is actually a great season. There just is a lot of darkness, coldness, and, you know,

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getting outside is harder. So, yeah, that makes it tough.

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Elsie

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So I have, like, the most epic coat collection. I should make a video, and I just bought one on Poshmark

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this morning. I will, like, always be working on my coat collection.

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Emma

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It's like, yeah, and it's fun. So there's a lot of good things about season two, but yeah, okay, so here's

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our winter bucket list. We're gonna go back and forth. My first one is, always have a candle burning and

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always be making tea with dinner. Oh, so part of the goal here is just like, sometimes I get a little

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precious about my candles, like, when I buy one, and I'm particularly excited about it, I find myself not

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lighting it sometimes, like, I'm, like, saving it for something. So I'm, I've putting this on the bucket list to

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be like, we're not saving any candles. We're burning all the candles this season. And same thing with

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tea. Sometimes I'll have, like, a favorite, you know, box that I bought, and all of a sudden I'm almost,

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like, rationing it, as if I can't buy more, which makes no sense at all. What is it? The end of the world?

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So I'm this goal is just like a reminder to myself of, like, do it now. Light the candle, make the tea. Yeah,

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buy another one. It's not a big deal. So, yeah, no, we go through a lot of tea this time of year, and I love

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it. I think it's so joyful. My little seven year old just started. She has, like, a, it's like, from Mrs. Potts, from

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Beauty and the Beast, yeah, a tea kettle, you know, but a ceramic kettle. And I like, make the whole

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kettle for her, and it has to have sugar and honey and mint tea. And then she like, sits there and pours it

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for pours little cups for herself. It's so cute. So when she's been over on Sunday, there's time I was like,

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about to make myself a cup of tea. And she goes, What are you doing? Like, she peered out of

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nowhere. And I was like, Oh, I'm making tea. Do you want a tea miracle? And she's like, why? Yes, tea.

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Do you have?

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Elsie

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She loves tea. It gets her out of bed in the morning on the school days. That's cute. Very cute. Okay,

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my first goal is to have a declutter year. This is this. This is my goal every year. I'm not gonna lie, but

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like, I really, really feel it this year, because I had this experience not that long ago, when we went to

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Italy and I came home and my family had gone to Kansas to this thing for my husband's family, and so I

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was the only one home, and when I came home, there was like, no dogs, no family, no Kids, no

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nothing. I realized it was like, our house is a dream house that's just really cluttered, and if I could just

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get the clutter like in that so hard, but it is something I'm going to work on really hard this year. So I'm

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going to do the one room at a time thing, and I'm going to try to be like, always making a Donations pile,

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and just like, getting rid of a lot of stuff physically. And then I also have, like, one of my goals is, like,

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thrifting and flea markets, but I also am, like, being more careful about what I buy from those places,

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and like buying off of a certain list, because that's also part of it, although I do think a lot of the clutter is

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kids.

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Emma

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And that is a little bit of the season of life. And I think this is great motivation. Of, like, I live in a dream

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house. She's just a little cluttered, right? Yeah? Like, it's very, like, leading with, like, the happy thing,

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yeah, like, the I've achieved a goal here. I'm in my dream home, and it's just a little cluttered right now,

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yeah, yeah. Like, and when I let it go, it can get really cluttered, so the more clear surfaces, the better.

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I'm gonna try really hard, and that's my goal. What's your next one? Okay, so this is, to me, it's similar,

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but it's like a big project that I don't know how I'm gonna get it done. So it's basically, I want to organize

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my library room. Ooh. So I've mentioned this before. Our main bedroom, we have our own closet that's,

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like, attached to our bathroom, but then there's this other little room that's attached to our bedroom, and

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the previous owners had a sewing machine in there. So I think the couple, the woman like, liked to sew,

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and it was a little craft room. So it's, it's basically a closet, but it's a pretty good size closet, and I've put

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shelves in there, and I have a little like therapy chair, is what I call it. It's like a little like chase lounge, or

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something I don't know. Anyway, I call it my library room, and it's been filling up, which I love. Part of my

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vision board is being surrounded by books, so I've been buying more. Books, mostly books. I've talked

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about my thrift books addiction before. It's not a problem. It's great, best addiction I've ever had. But my

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room's been filling up, and my husband's become more of a reader, too. So he kind of has a lot of

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books in there that are like, I mean, that we have a lot of books, but we both read it so, but he has kind

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of a section that's growing of things he's bought for himself, or things I've bought for him or whatever.

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So I've just been wanting to organize the bookshelves, and I'm a little bit stuck on if I should do

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alphabetical, if I should do alphabetical with genres in mind. At the moment, I kind of have, like, a little

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section that is just my romances paperback. But I also have a few romances that are in the hardcover

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section, and nothing's organized by authors, so it's just all random thrown in there. And then I have a

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section that's like books I've already read. I've had a nonfiction section. It's very like it had some

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organization when it started, but it's been growing and growing, and it's gotten kind of wild, yeah, so I

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have to figure out my own Dewey Decimal that makes sense for me. And then I need a day where I can

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take everything off the shelves and put it in the order that I want. And I'm actually really excited about it,

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because I organizing my books, and my books being like a big collection, it's just making me so happy.

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But I'm a little stuck on, like, how to organize it in a way that makes sense for, like, moving forward

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based on what I know that I'm buying more of. So anyway, that's my projecting. No, that's a good be my

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own tiny librarian. You can do it. I just did that same thing, and it did not take as long as I thought. What

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organization did you do? Or did you go by color? I went by a category. So genre, kind of, okay. So you

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have, like, a literary section and whatever, historical, whatever. Okay, yeah, I think that's what makes

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sense. And then in each one alphabetical.

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Elsie

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It just depends on your personal collection. Like, if you feel like it's mostly one which mine kind of, I

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don't know, like, honestly, I'm not, like, that worried about it. I just wanted to be able to be able to find

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things.

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Emma

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I'm not worried about it either. I just don't want to spend a day doing it and then being like, I still can't

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find the book I want.

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Elsie

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You'll be okay. Yeah, you can do it. What's your next one? Okay, my next one is this time of year. I want

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to always have our paints out. So I have just moved my painting studio to my home. So we kind of got

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this little room renovated last year, and now I'm able to, like, have all my stuff at home, which is great.

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And I've been doing watercolor painting a lot with my kids. We've been doing gouache painting. My kids

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are really into painting, and I just think it's wash painting, listeners who don't know it's like, a more

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intense watercolor, like it's it's pretty similar to watercolor, but it's just like, not as see through, yeah,

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cool. So it's nice, and it's still really smooth. So anyway, I'm enjoying doing doing all the painting. And

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this time of year, I tried puzzles. I think we're just not quite the kids are not quite big enough yet to

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where they're ready to do, like, the big puzzles with me, and we were just, like losing pieces. So

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instead, I'm just keeping art supplies out on that table, and that seems to be working really well, and

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giving us kind of like, a default thing to do when we have, like, you know, a little extra time, you know,

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yeah, so. But it is a lot of cleanup. I think the hard thing about it is to, like, always keep it because it's

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more inviting when you've just cleaned it, yeah. And when it gets, like, all messy, then it's like, it

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becomes just like, a cluttered surface that everyone avoids, so you do have to clean it really frequently.

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Emma

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Yep, I could see that anyway. Fun. I like it. Okay. My goal is to go room by room and clean and organize

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all the closets and cabinets in our home. So we have a lot of random our house that we live in. I love in

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part because it has a lot of storage. But it's pretty random. It's almost like our house was built and

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someone like didn't totally have a plan, and it just, you know, like our bedroom has like, three different

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closets off of it, which we don't need for all our clothes. We just need one. So anyway, so I'm wanting to

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organize each of them if they're not already, and sometimes there's one that just kind of has become a

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catch all. And so I'm like working through that a little bit, so I'll give an example. So like in our kitchen,

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there's lots of cabinets, and there's this one cabinet that's very much become kind of a catch all, but it's

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sort of half baking stuff and then half, like disposable plates, cups, silverware. And I use that because I

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host fairly often, and I just literally don't have enough plates whenever we have our whole family over.

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Yeah. So anyway, so I've been wanting to, kind of like, organize that better, and then also sometimes

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buy things so that, like, I just hosted, this was, like a month ago now, but Trey's family for Thanksgiving,

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I was the host for it, and our house. Yeah, and we just had a lot of people, and we ended up having two

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more than I was expecting. And it was great, but we were sort of, we ran out of Cups really quickly

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because I didn't have enough disposable cups. And kids, you know, kind of lose track of their cups and,

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like, that's totally fine. But I was like, Okay, I really would like this to be stocked better and just, just, like,

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have it stocked for like, now I'm good for three years, so if I end up hosting at Thanksgiving, and I don't

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even even think about how many disposable cups we have, it just like, in there and ready to go, yeah,

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just stuff like that, because I have the space. I've never had a house where this was true, but now I

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have it. So I'm like, I just want to have everything I need. So when that those kinds of moments happen,

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I'm good to go. So, yeah, no, I understand. Like, I think hosting is its own. Like preparedness thing, like

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at Thanksgiving, I couldn't find our table cloth for this one folding table that we needed. So just like

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making all the the cabinets and closets that have those things in it, I'm like, I know exactly where that is,

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and we don't have anything in there that we don't need anymore, and, you know, yes, that kind of thing,

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you can do this that that's a great one. Okay, so for winter, I'm making an old movie bucket list. I'll

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probably only put like five to 10 movies, because this is definitely a thing for me to do by myself. It is not

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a group activity. I don't think my kids will watch them with me. I don't think my husband will either. And I

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feel like I have this, like, folder on my computer that's just titled movies, and it's mostly old movies, and

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it just keeps getting more and more full. But no one wants to watch the same kind of old movies that I

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do. So I realized I need to, like, take a time for myself and do this for myself. So yeah, old movie bucket

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list. It should be fun. That is fun. It's very cozy. Okay, I have a goal to work through reading all of my

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craft books. Dash. So these are all books about writing, and most of them were recommended to me by

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Kathleen Fox, who did my developmental edit. She recommended a bunch of different craft books

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throughout that edit, and I bought all of them. Nice, any book. She said I bought it, and so I really

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probably only have five to eight. It's not an insane collection, yeah. But for me, they're books that are

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like learning, and they're not really a book that I want to like power through. I want to take my time with

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it, and if it has like a writing exercise, I want to take the time to do it. So I was thinking I was going to

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make this goal kind of like once a week, or at least two to three times a month there's a nap time,

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because I'm home during nap times here, where this nap time is about a writing book, and I just will

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work my way through the books. And part of me itches to be like, I wish I could just like, I'm going to

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finish this book in two weeks, but I don't think that's what my life has for me right now. It's just not the

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availability that I have. So I think I'm just gonna be like, I'm working through this book right now, and

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when I have a nap time that usually on nap time, I have to, like, fold some laundry, you know, do a

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couple little tasks, eat my lunch, and then I have, like, an hour, hour and a half, where I can do

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something, and I'm like, You're gonna read a chapter of one of your writing books. And if there's an

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exercise, you can do the exercise, and if you don't finish it, you can do it, finish it that evening. Yeah,

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and that's fine. And I think I just have to be kind of, like, accepting of that schedule. And I think if I do

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that, I'll actually work through them throughout the year. You can do it. So, yeah, anyway, that's a great

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goal. Yeah, I loved doing that. Okay, I'm gonna try to start a new photography era. I feel like I've said

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this like five times on the podcast, so it is she really wants to do I really want to do it. I think that I

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realized, like in the last year, I was like, I'm just not taking enough pictures of like our family and just of

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like life, like I just, I want more like the old pictures we used to take for our blog. I want more pictures

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like that again, and I miss that type of thing. And I think that when social media became all videos, that

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was good too. And I think those are memories too, and some in sometimes. And my kids like, actually,

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really like watching back their old videos. So my kids do too. Maybe that's good, but it's not photos. So

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I'm just trying to, like, get in the habit again. I think it's like something that I don't even remember, to use

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a camera to bring a camera. Like, I will go, I got to the point, like, when I was younger, if we would go

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on a vacation, I would bring my camera everywhere. Every day, we would take a photo of everything we

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did, every meal. There was like, just so much of it that it was like burning out my husband and it was

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too much. And then now it's gotten to the point where my mom was like, Hey, do you have a picture of

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your family from this year? And I was like, No, from the whole year. I don't have one single picture of

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the four of us standing together of any kind, and I got one on Thanksgiving. Oscar likes to jump into

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their photos and then not smile like just stand there. That's his move every time. That's true. On the

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back of my Christmas card, everyone can see Emma's son coming into our Halloween Halloween

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photo, which was only. Only, I only had two photos, and one was a Halloween photo, anyway, whatever.

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So, yeah, just taking more pictures of everyday life. And I kind of already started this, so I'm just gonna

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try to, like, get it to be a habit. You know, I love it. My last one is coming up, and it is to bake myself a

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birthday cake. I don't bake cakes very often, but I do love doing it, and so I try to always do some kind

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of special kind of birthday cake. Well, I talked about how I'm baking or cooking my way through this

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cookbook, and she doesn't have very many recipes in that cookbook that I mentioned, it was recipe 10

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eats dinner, but she has a few, and she has this death by chocolate cake that has like a caramel glaze,

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and that seems very up my alley, so I'll probably make that one perfect. And yeah, I've never made that

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particular recipe before. I'm always down for another chocolate cake recipe. So perfect. I do love cake.

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Cake is on my top list. I know I haven't looked at the calendar, but a lot of times I try to time up when I

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bake my birthday cake so I can eat a slice of it and then take it to our book club, yeah, so that I don't

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have an entire cake, because I will eat that's good until it's gone or stale, or what, you know, so, and I

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love I love it, but, you know, too much sugar can get kind of a tummy ache. I am that kind of kid. So,

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forever and always.

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Elsie

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Yeah, the chocolate pudding child, Yep, that's me. Okay? My last goal is to, on a regular basis, go to

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the flea markets and thrift stores. So I think the first year we moved back to Missouri, and kind of like

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before we moved back, that's all I would do when I came here, because I missed it so much when we

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lived in Nashville, and then I got kind of used to it. And then this past year, because of our renovation, I

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didn't feel in the mood to bring one single thing into our house, right, like at all. So I just kind of, I we did

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go. We went a couple times, but not very much. So this year, I'm just gonna try to make it, like, more of

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a routine of like, popping in. I usually don't buy anything, and that is totally fine. I just want to be kind of

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frequently going so that when there is that magical thing, and I do, like, for me, firmly believe that, like,

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the most magical objects in my house are almost all vintage. So that's just what I'm into. So yeah, this

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year, I want to try to, like, get in a routine. And then I did make a list of, like, just a phone Notes app, list

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of the things that I can actually use more of that would be useful to buy. And I'm gonna try to look at the

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clothes I got where I, like, didn't look at clothes at all at thrift stores for a long time. And I do love, like,

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Poshmark and stuff. But this year, I'm gonna at least try, like, a couple of, you know, like, skimming by a

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couple of rows. Our thrift stores in Missouri are, like, so big. I should probably make a video at some

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point to just show people, because I think they're pretty I live in Europe. They wouldn't understand why I

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can't look through the whole store, because I've seen the London charity shops. It's not the same thing.

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This is like a warehouse, yeah? And it's just, it's crazy. And then, yeah, the flea markets are kind of the

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same way. Like you can just split half the store and enjoy it, and then the next week, do the other half.

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Emma

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If you walk in with a coffee, by the time you were done looking at everything, it would be completely

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cold, completely like, that's how big they are. Yeah, massive. But, yeah, I love a unique vintage find.

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And one of the best things about living in Missouri is the flea markets, so I don't want to waste it. I love

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it cool. Okay, anything else about winter bucket list? No, I think that. I think we're ready for the hot

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takes. All right, this week's Hot take is a doozy. This is from Laura and also Kim. So two people wrote

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this one in.

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Elsie

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Yeah, we only got like 10 emails, and two of them were the same hot take, yeah, so both get credit. I

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know, just based on that, that there's probably, out of all the people listing, there's probably like more

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than 100 people who have the same hot take who agree with it, yes, and I've seen it online like it's, it's

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a this is a popular one.

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Emma

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Okay, okay, so the hot take is listening to an audio book. Should not be described as reading a book.

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It's listening. They can both be amazing, but they are not the same. All right. So Elsie disagrees. I did

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prepare a TED talk. Okay, so I want to begin by saying, Can I just do like a miniature rant? Yeah, okay.

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Begin by saying, let's hear this TED talk. I'm ready.

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Elsie

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Where I will end up is that I think I can agree on the premise the middle ground we have is the premise

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that reading paper books have benefits that audio books don't have. I do agree with that, and I will get

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there by the end, but I strongly believe that this take is something that should not leave anyone's

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mouth. I think. It's rude. I think it's cruel, and I think it's like, I think it makes you sound ignorant, and I

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know that no one who listens to our podcast would willingly like behave that way. But why do you think

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that? The reason why I think that is because, well, first of all, like, I do have blind children, so I have

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like, personal stakes in the game, and I have seen firsthand how much like more welcoming

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audiobooks are for them, even at their young age, their preferred font size does not exist. Yeah, in even

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in picture books like their preferred font size, they showed me like they did testing at school, and they

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showed me what it was, and it's bigger than any board book. It's like, it is a huge font size. So if they

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were really going to like that, I know that some people think like large print is the solution. It's actually

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not like, they still need a tool for large print. And when you have a tool, then the two sizes are basically

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the same. So yeah, obviously it is accessible for blind people and also people with certain learning

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disabilities. There's lots of people in the world who just don't have the attention span to sit and read a

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book for whatever reason, but they will listen to an audio book. Also, it is accessible for people who

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work with their hands, so people who for a living, either like paint walls or drive a truck or drive cars,

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Uber, whatever, or people who clean houses, you know, just all kinds of things like that. I know, the year

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that I first got into audio books. We were still food blogging full time, and that's why I was able to read

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so many and if you are, you know, doing things like I was, where, like, I will read a paper book, and I've

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never thought, especially like on an airplane, on a vacation, there's certain times when I would really

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prefer a paper book. I like to read before bed, but my paper book, you just mean visual book, because it

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could be an e reader. You don't really care, yeah? I'm just listening to those together. Yeah? But I think

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that you know, if you are a person who does your own grocery shopping, you're a person who has to do

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like I used to do a one hour long car line every day where I sat in the car by myself for an hour, things

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like that. If you have that lifestyle, you can easily like, if you can listen to a podcast every day, you can

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listen to an audio book every week, which would give you 52 extra books in the year that you wouldn't

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have been able to read on paper or, you know, like with a tactile book. So I think that that's just, like,

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also a huge part of it. And I think it is a welcoming, like, an easy sort of like, come on in vibe for adults

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who haven't read fiction in years. You know, obviously, most adults don't. I think that's like a real stat.

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Most adults don't read a book every year, fiction or nonfiction. But, you know, there's lots of people who

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feel like, if I'm reading, I should be reading a self help book, or I should be reading, you know, like

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something that has to do with like their religion or their vocation, or something that, you know what I

00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:06.000
mean?

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Emma

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Something that enriches you, beyond a story, or that's how people perceive it.

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Elsie

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Yeah. But you know, for people who and all of you listening right now, people who listen to podcast, it's

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just such a welcoming way when you realize that you can easily like fit this into your schedule, you

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know it's just an easy way to like add fiction into your life when you might have felt like there was a big

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barrier of entry. Now there's a very small barrier of entry. And then my last point is that audiobook

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performers are incredible. Audiobook performers are actors, and they are bringing something to the

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books that you cannot get on your own. At least I can't, I don't read in that dramatic way. And you know,

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for certain emo books like I really enjoy, like the performance of it, and there are certain books also that

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are sort of challenging to read or challenging to focus on, where I feel like I'm more likely to finish it if

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I'm on an audio book than if I am reading it on paper, you know, like the kind of book where you like,

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keep reading the same paragraph over and over again, right? Like, that kind of book is, for me, a good

00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:20.000
candidate for iBook. So I think that it is just important to keep all of those different people in mind if

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you're gonna say out loud audio books aren't reading. And last but not least, I asked my 10 year old last

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night at dinner, do you think that reading audio books counts as reading? And she said, the library

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counts it as reading. And honestly, mic drop like mic drop for you, because it's true for summer reading

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for. Program, and the library did say that it counted equally. And who am I? Who are we to go against

00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:25.000
the library? Yeah, I wouldn't do that. So, yeah, basically, just don't break my daughter's heart. She is.

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She's such an engaged reader. She and it's audio books, and yes, she's blind, but every single night,

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she's, you know, going to sleep listening to her books. And last year, she finished Harry Potter, and then

00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000
she read A Series of Unfortunate Events. And these are books that have, like, incredible performances,

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and she was so engaged with them, and I know that with her level of vision, she probably wouldn't have

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been able to finish them in a paper format. You know, even with her tools, like they're they have, they

00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:31.000
have accessibility tools, but it's not as like an audio book is just like a very welcoming, comforting thing

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for her. So she hasn't yet heard the take that, like audio books shouldn't count as reading, but when she

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does, I know that as, like a type one, it's going to be like hard for her a little bit, because she's going to

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feel like shamed by that, and I hate that for her. So I just wish, I wish that for that reason alone, that you

00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:35.000
know, maybe we could just stop saying that.

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:36.000
Emma

00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.000
But anyway, yeah, so I'll say I agree with everything you said, and I think it is reading but as far as like,

00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:38.000
okay, okay, let's just look at this argument. Let's think about all the points here. So I will say, I don't feel

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like they're saying it doesn't count in any way. Like, you know, they go out of their way to say it can they

00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.000
can both be amazing. They're just not the same, yeah, which I would say, if you're saying they're both

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reading, they're both consuming, I feel like they're saying audio books aren't reading. You should say I

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listened. You shouldn't say I read, which I can kind of maybe, or maybe they're just trying to say, like

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they're different experiences, which I think in a literal sense, yes, is true, yes. So you know, there is that

00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:44.000
also say, I do think that you know, so you kind of started your TED talk with the fact that if you are able

00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.000
to read visually, then there are some benefits that you cannot get from audio books. That is true. And I

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also like, I think too, one thing that I kind of hear people say, and I think there's a point there, is that

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whenever you're visually reading, so whether you're holding a book in your hands or an e reader, you

00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.000
can't do other things. There's very few things you could probably walk on a treadmill, maybe, or do a

00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:49.000
stationary bike, like there are a few things you could do, but for the most part, you're, you can't. You're

00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:50.000
kind of choosing to only do that one activity, because it's you're kind of saying, This is what I value,

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whereas audio books you can do while you work, while you exercise, while you are in the car line. You

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know all the things that you listed, yes. And so in one sense, you could say, well, it's not really, you

00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:53.000
know, we should consider some people just have very busy lives. They have to work two jobs and they

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parent. They're a single parent. Yeah, there's a lot of things. Or you could say the flip side of it is being

00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:55.000
like, I'm choosing to spend the little time that I have visually reading, because I value it that highly. And,

00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:56.000
you know, I'm like, Okay, there's an argument there. I don't know how important it is, but I see

00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:57.000
something there. I see, you know, I guess I want to hear, like, why people are offended by calling

00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:58.000
listening to an audio book reading, because I guess I don't understand that point, but I feel like, I

00:05:58.000 --> 00:05:59.000
suspect, I theorize, that it's because if you only read paper books, you are gonna have a smaller

00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:00.000
reading goal. And when you're, especially if you're on Tiktok, the amount, the quantity of like, people's

00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.000
reading goals is incredible and also crazy. Like, it can be like, I get like, it can almost like, make you feel

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.000
like 70 books isn't enough or something, because some people read so many. So maybe that's a part of

00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.000
it. But also, I guess I just feel like, the more the merrier, like I've just never, yeah, yeah, for sure, yeah. I

00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.000
mean, at the end of the day, I think you should do whatever you want to do with your reading time, you

00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:05.000
know, and expand it or make it smaller however you want to. You know, reading fiction is, for the most

00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.000
part, a hobby. Obviously, it is requirement in school at times, whenever you're growing up. And I think

00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.000
that's good. I think, you know, read, you know, but yeah, so I think there's something there, as far as,

00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:08.000
like, they are not the exact same activity, yeah? But I think if you forget that, not everyone's able to

00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:09.000
participate in every activity for various reasons. And you know, it's just good to remember that, yeah.

00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.000
And it doesn't mean that we have to pretend. Like it's the same, but I think it's just good to when we use

00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:11.000
our words out loud in public or to others, to keep in mind that, you know, people are different, and they

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may be different from you, and you don't really, you don't always know who's listening either. So you

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know.

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Elsie

00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.000
it's just for sure. Okay, I'll say my few things that I think so. First of all, like when our daughter was in

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:16.000
kindergarten, and we were like, is it bad that she only wants to listen to audio books? We asked the

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special ed teachers this question, exactly, and they said it's better than not reading, but reading on

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paper has different benefits for your brain and cognition than audio books do. So I definitely agree with

00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:19.000
that. Also, you know, it's it's good to do both, if you like, I, in my opinion, like you, can get the most out

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of doing both. Also, for me as someone who wants to be a writer, I have recently been going more

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towards paper books because I realized that I learn more about grammar and punctuation, also

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spelling. Like imagine if you had never seen the word quinoa on paper, but you had heard it in audio

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books, you still couldn't spell it, you know, things like that. I just think you you do learn more when

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you're looking at a paper book. And then also, there's books that have the epistolary content and the

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special formatting, which is one of my passions. I love these types of books. So Emma just read seven

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husbands of Evelyn Hugo, which I had listened to as an audiobook. And she was like, Oh, you have to

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look through it. And I did. And it was like, Okay, there's these little, like, visual newspaper clippings and

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just like, cute, special things that I could see how that added to the experience. And I was also looking

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at the book Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, which I also listened to as an audio book. And then

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Emma mentioned it's really special. And I looked through it, and I was like, Oh, this is really special. So

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there are certain books where they do this, like, even in, like, the Twilight book, in the New Moon book,

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she has, she did, like, a special thing that I thought was really cool. So yeah, it can be in any kind of

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books like but special formatting, you would miss that in an audio book performance. And then if you

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are a reader who likes to do the annotating or highlighting or, like for me, it does, like, scratch a certain

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part of my brain, especially with non fiction, I do remember more if I read the paper book and do the

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highlighting, and, more importantly, for me take notes. If I have, like, one page of notes at the end of a

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self help book, that is the best possible outcome for my learning style. And then I think that audio books

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can be distracting, like you can easily zone out, especially if you're not very engaged with the story. I'm

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reading a book right now that's a little like, I like it. I like it and I don't like it. I like, you know what I

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mean? Like, when you're reading a book and you're like, I like certain things about it, and then it's a

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little bit not keeping my attention. That's a problem that you run into with audio books, because you can

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zone out in your mind while you're listening and not even realize it. So you have to be kind of careful

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with that. So I do admit it, I admit all the things, but I just, I just don't think. I don't know. I just think it's

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like a take that people shouldn't say.

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Emma

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I don't really even feel like it is totally necessary. I don't know if anyone thinks they're exactly the same.

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Yeah, that's true. So maybe it's just like people are thinking that that's what maybe people do think that

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though, I guess I just don't. I'm just like, yeah, they're different things, but they are both consuming very

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similar content in different ways, because it's not the same thing. If you, if I talk about a book that I love,

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and you're like, oh, yeah, I saw the movie, yeah, we all know that's not the same thing, yeah, because

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it's, it's literally not you didn't consume this. They might have changed it. Yeah, it's just a very different,

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very different ways gonna be, like a shorter story, whereas an audio book, it is kind of very close, like

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95% the same content. But as Elsie mentioned, there are times that there is something a little bit

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different. And even, like, I'll say, with audiobooks, sometimes there's a performance piece to it that

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really because I think, like, Project Hail Mary, yeah, I listen to it. There's an alien in it, you know,

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spoilers, there's an alien in it. And the way they do the voice, I don't share how they even do it in the

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written version, because I, like, I said I listened to it, yeah, and I barely think it added to it a lot, and it

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was very fun and interesting. And so, you know, I don't know. I just think both ways are good. If you can

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do both, I would do both at times. And I also think it's fun to talk, you know, like, I like it when you've

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listened to one, or I've read it, or vice versa, who tell each other, like, oh, but you should this thing, you

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know, like, it's fun. So I don't know, but I think both have their place, and we don't really need to debate

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each other's ability to read. Because, you know, some of us, our eyes are different. Some of us, our

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brains are different. Let's all just enjoy things. Yeah, just wonderful.

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Elsie

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Story for everyone, your lifestyle, your day. Yeah, you know, like, I know for sure that I wouldn't be a

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passionate fiction reader right now the way that I am, if it weren't for audio books, because I do feel like

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they welcomed me in at a time when I still had toddlers and I didn't have a lot of extra time, but I was

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listening to podcasts, and I was listening to self help books, so I just got rid of that stuff and started

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listening to Emily Henry books and stuff instead. And it was, I was like, Okay, why am I happier all of a

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sudden? Yeah, yeah, I will defend it, but I think that's also like, why it's a hot take. So I hope that I

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wasn't too harsh and shaming because of the blind stuff, like, but I do think that, like, it's not just about

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blind people. It's also like just all the different seasons of life. Sometimes we're in a season where audio

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books are the only way you're going to read. And I think that's great, if that's you, yeah, yeah. Fictions

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for everyone, yes. And the performances are just getting so good, because, yeah, I have listened to a

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few very old audio books that were recorded before, like in the 19th century or in the 20th century, in

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the, you know, in the 1900s as the kids say, and it's not the same. It's not the same the 1900 Oh, my

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God, it's not the same, like the performance that they put into it. Now, it has really evolved. And so,

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yeah, let me just end by saying I think I've heard that it's the fastest growing like, area of fiction, audio

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books, you know. So I think that's also really cool, is that it's helping the fiction world grow, you know,

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financially and good for authors, it's good for the narrators, yeah, yeah, everyone who works in the

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publishing alongside these people, yeah, yeah, editors, so on and so forth, yeah. Anyway, okay, so we

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had another hot take. This one's really fun. This is a bonus for the week. Okay, so this one's from

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Becca, and it says, this one's weird and fun. My Hill to die on is that the animated Cinderella from 1950

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is a redhead, and all of the merchandise makes her blonde, which makes me mad for no reason. I've

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ranted about this too many times for anyone who will listen, her hair is red in the film, all caps, red,

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exclamation point, maybe, maybe strawberry blonde, but not true blonde. So I looked up the pictures.

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Do you want to look up the picture? Have you already I did try to look at the pictures, and I don't know if

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I felt like I was getting the right thing. Okay, so just search like on your phone, Cinderella 1950 I did.

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Okay, so that's what I did. I will say I agree with this take. I think that when you look at all the film stills,

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what you see in the hair color is either strawberry blonde, or in some of the shots, I would say red, but

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mostly I would say strawberry blonde. But then when you look at the Cinderella, that is, you know, the

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costumed person at Disney World, or you look at like the Barbie or the new merch, it is a, like, bright

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yellow blonde color. So they have definitely changed the hair color. I think that's good. I think it's kind of

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sad because there are so many blonde princesses already.

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Emma

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Yeah, okay, well, I did notice in this, I don't know this is like question mark for me, but I did notice that

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more when she's dressed like the princess, like she has the blue dress that the fairy godmother gives

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her, her her hair is more blonde in those pictures. I kind of wonder if her hair changes colors in the

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movie. I didn't watch the movie as research for this, I literally just googled so I was like, does the

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godmother change her hair color? Is that what's happening a little bit, my gosh, wait, I'm gonna look this

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up now. I'm like, very engaged again and again. This is a question. I am not a Cinderella historian. This

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is not our hill to Dion. This is No, no, but I will say I read this, I googled and I didn't totally agree. I

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looked at the pictures and I was like, I was like, am I looking at the same pictures? Because I feel like

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this is not a redhead. This is like, orange blonde, strawberry blonde, maybe even kind of strawberry

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brunette. Okay, so, yeah, brunette, yeah. She's showing me a picture on her phone, and I'm like, that's

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a brunette and the blue dress, yeah, and it's the blue dress where I feel like the hair is lighter, and I'm

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just thinking the fairy godmother, like in this peroxide the hair a little bit. So in the picture where she has

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the tattered pink dress, I would say it looks red, yeah, in this picture, I would say it could be strawberry

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blonde, yeah, red. And see like, that's the difference between like this, yeah, and that's, yeah, that's,

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they've remastered here, so blonde, okay, well, I'll say for. The most part, we think we agree. No, I don't

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think so. Okay, I think I feel like I agree a little a redhead. I'm like, I'm not on board with that. I do feel

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like they're changing her hair and new merch to be more blonde, but I kind of feel like she's kind of a

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brunette, like going from strawberry blonde to honestly, when I was Googling, I was like, This is what

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color my kids hair is? Because my kids kind of have this almost like, orangey hair, golden. I would call it

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golden. It's very golden. That's yeah, because they're not, they're definitely not redheads, but they're

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not really blonde. Yeah, it's very golden looking and but if you were like, What color is your kid's hair,

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here's three options, red, blonde, brown, black. I'd be like, blonde, Okay, question mark. Like, that's

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what I would answer. So I'm like, I don't know this. This is a little on the line here. I wish we had the

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ability to do a poll in real time now, because I hope I'm not taking anything away from the redheads.

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Because don't forget, you have the Little Mermaid, the best hair of all the princesses, if you ask me,

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because it's always like, flowing around her in the ocean. I love the little mermaid, yeah, and her hair is

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red, and that's the best hair. So I'm not taking anything from the right, okay, well, I'm gonna come down

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on strawberry blonde. That's what I think it looks like to me. Yeah? And I do think that it's a different

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color on the new merch, more yellow, yeah, yeah. They're definitely blonding it up in the new merch.

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Yeah, I don't disagree on that. I'm with I'm with her there.

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Elsie

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Okay, all right, let's do a joke and a fact with Nova. Hey, Nova, what do you have for us this week?

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Nova

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A fact, it's a music fact. Did you know The oldest instrument and it was some kind of bone of a bird,

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okay, was over 40,000 years old. Okay, about 40,000 years old. That's the oldest instrument they found.

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Elsie

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That is a very old instrument. Wow. Thank you for that.

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Nova

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Have a nice week.

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Elsie

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Yay. Okay, we'll be back next week. Thanks for being here. The best way you can support our podcast

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:17.000
is to tell a friend about it. We're so grateful for your weekly emails. If you want to send us a topic

00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.000
request for the new year, send it or a hot take, send it to podcast at a beautiful mess.com. We'll be back

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.000
next week. You.