#121- Mat Kearney talks about his new album, touring with John Mayer and Imposter Syndrome

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to uh the Matt Carney episode. Are you good, buddy? That's the same hat you had on? Or do you always just wear the Portland hats? It's just my I just get lazy, so it probably the same at Yeah, I have if you walk down to my room. I mean I have for my wardrobes Arkansas stuff because I can wear it all the time. I'm representing home, right. Are you still a die hard home guy? Uh? Yes, Oregon? Yes, I still claim it somehow. I've been in Nashville for like eighteen I don't even know how many years now, but yeah, Oregon is still gets in you. I'm six generation Oregon in so my family came over on the like covered wagon Oregon Trail. The game you played in high school? Middle school? That was my family probably high school for me. I don't go to very good high school. We just got it like eleventh grade. Was that when Oregon Shaw comes out? Because I played that game. So Joey dies of dysentery? Yeah? Do you fort the river? How many oxen? So if you're in Oregon during Oregon Trail, is there a story you're proud of that? I guess I didn't have a context. I didn't know people in like Wyoming were playing this game. I thought maybe they had like or something. Yeah, did you have Oregon Trail? Mike d Yeah, okay, because that was we would go to the computer lab and it was a big deal because this is typing class. This is the only C I ever made all through school was typing. I was straight a's. You know, I was the kid probably too smart for my own good. I got me in trouble, but I go and the if they be. The only B I made in high school wasn't typing. Otherwise I have been a straight up four point student. How do you get to be in what? You just didn't the speed? We're playing trail too much? I was. I think I was just goofing around too much. It was typing. Who cares? And then in college, the only I made a C because I made a see in French. No no, no, no. But I took French because we had to take a foreign language to be I studied. You know, I wrote in college and I did radio television, and so I I took French and I made a C. And that's pretty this point in mind. I went to my my teacher and said hey, I'm never going to use this, dude, I'm not even sure I deserve to see. I said, I'm never going to use this. Please, I haven't begged for much of my life. I said, please give me a C. What do you want from me? You mean, you know, French fries, French? What you want, I'll do whatever. I'll make one for the class. And I didn't know I was gonna have and if Finally I sent my report and it was a C. And I thought, oh my god, he listened, because I don't know that I deserved it. Really, you what kind of student? Were you? Very bad? Really failed ping pong class once? But that's an effort thing. Yeah, that was really just I didn't want to put on jim close to play ping pong and you to like get in your your like pe clothes, and I just was like, no, man. But then, like after three quarters of the semester not doing it one time, it was like a hole I couldn't get out of. I was starting to do the math. I'm like, even if I dress up every day. He's like, nope, but that hurt your final great point average probably, well, my final g p A was really low. So I'm not really low. I don't I can't remember exactly what it was. But I was not a good student. No, I mean, I wouldn't say that I thought I was dumb, but I just high school was interesting for me. I I probably snuck out of my house like four nights a week, just I was super rebellious to do what. I don't know, what do you do in Eugene, Oregon. Probably try to score like alcohol or something, or you know, like I don't know. I was just restless. I just liked it was like this thing we would do, me and this group of friends, and we would just roam around town. And I get grounded, but you if you just leave. I realized that if you get grounded, you can still just leave. There's nothing they could really do unless they like chain me to the bed. It's like your baby. Now we were just talking. You can't give. You can't even communicate with her. No, if I get what I gave, that it's bad. I was. I was my poor parents. See how I would think you're such a cerebral guy just by being a fan of your music and the different styles you kind of bounce within that. It was probably school was probably too easy for someone like you. Uh, I would say it just didn't fit, Like sitting in a I'm really a d D, like tested off the charts, and uh when I went and took some big formal tests, not just like I'm a d D. Everybody says there d D D, which but so so for me sitting in a in a desk facing someone talking to you, sitting still like just didn't work. I just didn't vibe that way. Did you take a C T R S. See I'm from Arkansas. I took a C T S just not do well? Did you kill it? I did? Like? I did pretty good. Yeah, I was like twelve or eleven something, which I fell asleep during the writing session because I had stayed out the night before. You just didn't care. I just didn't care. I mean I guess I cared, but no, my brother was really smart. I was like in the art and I was a soccer player, and so school just didn't I didn't see how that fit into what. I don't know. I just didn't move me at all. You would be the guy that I would be jealous of all through high school and college because not only were you the guy that was cool and you snuck off and did you party and it made bad grades? But then you're obviously musically talented, gifted, but you're an athlete, like you were really good soccer player. You went to call you. They paid you basically to play soccer in college. What a scholarship, Well that's kind of been blown out of proportion because Chico stayed at the time didn't have really a full scholarship thing, so they would help you with other things, but it wasn't like a full ride. But because of my grades, like I just really uh yeah, I but yeah that I played Sarga Chico was, I was? Okay? Is that Aaron Rodgers Chico? It is? Yeah? Yeah, you know, you guys have any relationship at all? We we are Twitter friends, Okay, that's something. Yeah, we're Twitter friends. Do you ever have anybody follow you on Twitter? And then you worry for a bit. I guess if I post something real stupid rob when they start following me, they're gonna unfollow me. Do you ever have that? Because I I just know because I'm terrible at it anyway, So you don't tweet much. I don't know I should tweet more. I had to. You ever watch Full House? Okay? So I did a show, but I didn't grow up. My wife was really like, we talked about this last night. That's funny you brought it up. We were talking about Full House. Well what was that conversation? It was remember that And I was like, I wasn't really into it, and she's like, well, I have find party and doing funds out. I just didn't get it. I was like, because I think, yeah, I don't know. I did a show on Fox with Candice Cameron, and so we did the show together. She's wine, she makes wine? Does she make wine? Just knew that. I don't know how I know that. Yeah, I don't. I I don't know that. So I don't drink. I don't drink wines. I don't know. But uh, we did the show and I thought it was cool because I watched Full House my whole life. And then she started following me on Twitter and Instagram. So I thought that's a very single move that I had. For a week, I thought about everything I was writing. It had to go through the Candice cameraon test, like would Candice approved, and so then I would check the likes if she liked my picture. I'm down a terrible, warm, warm hole. With her and she's married at like four kids or something. But yeah, she was someone like I grew up. But I wonder if Aaron Rodgers starts to follow you if you go, man, I shouldn't tweet things stupid for a minute. Uh, that's not really my brand to tweet stupid stuff and be like what No, that's where we we like, yeah, we like text each other in Twitter world. He's like, when are you come into play a show? I'm like, yo. So because he's mentioned like I guess he started a record label or something. So I found out because he was he mentioned my music a couple of times. I was like, wait, what Aaron Rodgers he knows who I am. So that's gotta be cool, right. Yeah. Somebody that you think it's cool thinks you're cool. Yeah. I think it's pretty cool. In that realm of the world, who's been the coolest person? We're like, Wow, they actually think I'm cool. Uh. I went to my first record I went into my publisher and there was this U poster on the wall of this band called the box Car. Oh shoot a freak. Their name anthem something box Gaslight Anthem. That was their name. No box Car was gas and uh. I was like, oh, man, I love those guys. Obviously, I love him so much. I know their names really well. But but I was like, uh, man, we did something for this Bruce compilation and he goes, oh, that's funny. They were just in here and they pointed at your picture and said, oh, we love Matt Carney. And the guy goes, oh, how do you know Matt Carney? And they go, oh, Bruce gave us his record, and I was like Bruce, He's like, yeah Springsteen And I was like, wait, Bruce knows I'm a live and gave my record to somebody. Yeah, but I guess he's like really into keeps up with current music. And we were both on Columbia and I've done something for his like charity CD, so there was a way he could have known me. But yeah, I literally didn't talk for like two hours. Did you ever talk to Bruce Springsteen? I have not know, but he knows you're alive. That I have a friend that went and saw his play the Broadway show. Yeah, I guess play maybe as an accurate the musical where he walks you through his life while playing his songs. And so I got online to see what tickets where to the Bruce Springstein show. I believe it's called Springsteen or Bruce and Bruce Springstein something fly like that. And they're like bucks to go watch that show because I mean they're only out then yeah, and I was getting ten people to pay a million dollars and then you do it, yeah once a night. But he is staying off the road because he goes and does the show through four nights a week, does a couple of shows and makes the money, feels creatively fulfilled, and it is that what it's all about. Like for me, that's what I try to find. How do how long do I stay creatively field? Because I just don't want to go to the motions and get up. I know, I never got into radio for the music. Loving the music is a bonus part of it. I got into the radio to creatively I'd write same ways and I got a TV and stand up is to creatively like fill my cupful and the fact that a music fan allows me to break artists or bring artists like yourself on when you're not a country artist, but my show goes Yes, we I don't really care what you just if you're good or I like you come on in. So for me, that's it, That's what I'm always striving to do. Like, how is it for you? Are you always writing music? You're trying to What's just into what you said? You can feel that when I've been listening to your podcasts and what you do, and yeah, you're not just playing music, You're you're well I would say you're an artist. You know you're doing your thing, which makes sense that you would get into all the different stuff you're doing. Can you say that, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think I get into anything. Yeah, I try to avoid that. When it starts to happen, I slowly pivot out of it and come out. So how do you keep yourself creatively motivated? Uh? You know, I just I love writing, and um, I just love songwriting. It's I didn't actually start songwriting until I was a junior in college, and it just was this like puzzle that was fit everything that I loved and what like my gift. I just was like, oh, this is I get it. It's like it was moving in slow motion songwriting. I was like, you put this here and that there. And so I think I still that challenge of writing songs in creating music and emotional moments are just you know, I still love it, you know, and I get out of bed every day with like songwrideas and lyrics. I just put out a record and I'm still like I was up late at night like writing down lyrics because they just it's just what I do. You're right, I wanna patter you put them on your phone. When was that shift for you? Uh, February twelve, two thousand seven, and you remember the day. Yeah, you're not messing with me. I'm messing with you. Okay, I don't know. Listen, I can already tell you're working on different level than I am. But for a lot of my friends, they'll they'll stick to the pad because it's what they feel the most comfortable. I'm a terrible speller. I can't. I'm literally like. I'm also like dyslexic partly, and spelling is super hard for me. I would not I was in English, which funny, was an English major and I could not have gotten through college without spell check. So you're an English major, an athlete, a musician. Did you guys write college or do you get I didn't? I left my my You would you would think they would because at Chico State they keep sending me like envelopes to donate to the school and like, but no, I dropped I didn't mean to. Yeah, it was like a road trip to Nashville with a buddy of mine and somehow I dropped out. Supposed to be for a month and now it's been year or so many hours short you are, I'm about a year any interest at all? Finishing totally? I think about all the time. I would love to go to school now that sounds so fun to me, Like learning is an cold to you? Yes, like man, people should wait, I think in like wait till thirty or so they go back at it. I wonder, And again, you have a kid, meaning at some point they're gonna look at your past actions to base their own. Does that factor into being a dad now, like in the decisions that you make, not until right now? I mean totally, yeah, I mean I think that maybe not as much. She's sixteen months. It's very like in the in the immediate, like my on my phone once she wants me to read her a book like that, But I guess that'll like it out. Your whole lives on the internet, our parents lives weren't on the internet. We don't know what they did. I have no idea your daughter's gonna every movie you made. I know I think about that maybe more like uh, when I'm writing songs and like, I don't know why this is so weird, this is a new thing, but like I'm picturing this like teen age my daughter, teenage girl being like that songs wasn't no good or something like like I'm I'm like haunted by my thirteen year old daughter. If she's gonna think it's get into what I do or not. I was listening to your record, which I have a lot. I really enjoyed the directord by the way, like I don't thank you, like no nobody. It's kind of what made me go, hey, I really enjoyed the new record. I've been a fan for years, and I thought, let me be selfish. I liked the new record. He lives in town. Let me just reach out. And I think it was Jake. I think I was talking about your record on the I'm trying I'm going back to my head. I was talking about your record on the air, Jacob and reaches out and goes, hey, I'm kind of friends with him. I was just with their friends. We can we can establish that, Jake, And he said, I was just with him. I hit the ball farther than him on the golf course. Are your golfer? I probably you're an athlete, huh. I mean golf's my one kind of like really dabble in athletics still, yeah, but can you play with him? Are you better than him? Okay, because he's really good, He's really good. Yeah, I don't play that much. From that was the trouble. Like when I moved down to town, I lived on a golf course for a while. I thought, man, I was like, I used to play all four days a week when not live in Texas. Did you get like a handicap? Yeah? I did, but I started I never played golf in my lige. Yeah, which is hard. It's like learning piano at right, you kind of if you don't have the kid thing, it's a lot harder. And there was no concept of golf. We didn't have golf in Arkansas. I was I was pouring. There are no golf courses, you know, we're so I started playing at like twenty eight or so. And I remember the first time I played around and I had to play around to score it, and I think I shot a one o nine and by the time that I was done playing, I was probably shooting eighty three eight four was a twelve good around and that I felt like it was good for me. But it's really good just for anyone. But the problem with golf is you're always playing people better than you. There's always somebody who's a lot better than you. And so if I can't practice, I don't want to play with that, and right out of time to practice. So yeah, my point is I really enjoyed the new record. Um and so I listened on the back half of the record when you put the shad a song in. Yeah, but bun out by your side, So I'll hear were going that if you just said to me, I'm gonna do by your side, I've been like, yeah, I don't know, man, that's that's like my legendary bubble bat song. Like people love this song. I love it too. You crushed it though, crushed it. Listen to this, Listen to you, Listen to you right now. That's how good you are. This song so much better than you know. Come on, what's your mindset going into when you're covering a song because you want to make it a little different, but you gotta remain somewhat true. You're walking a fine line. And I definitely took approach where I did it, like in her structure. I think it's almost might be in the same key she's singing, and maybe it's a half step blower, but I yeah, I definitely took the tempo in the structure and kept it like she did it, and then just made the instrumentation kind of different, like eight o eights and something like that felt like something I was into. But yeah, I love this song. This was like I I cover a lot of songs for fun in the studio, just as an exercise or just I don't know, just fun to like sing other really cool songs, and this one I did as like a on a whim. And then I kept like, I really like this, I really like this, and I just kept finishing and finishing it until I was like, I guess I gotta put this on the record. I love this version. You know when you also referenced and memorize, yeah, and so on purpose, it was this thing. Yeah it was, so did you. But but everybody thinks I'm saying shouty like Shoudy got low, like I'm saying shaddy, but I'm not. I'm saying shod. I never thought it was shoddy because I don't think, well, you probably know who Shod is. I do. And and so when I I think this song came out before the record came out, I believe this, This wasn't this one of the tracks first tricks. And so when this song came out and I enjoyed it, and the record comes out and they hear the shot a song and I'm like, oh, I was on purpose, Like did you think to cover the song before you wrote this song? I did. I had to cover Going. And I was in a write with Matt Drag and Josh Miller, great really big amazing writers in town. They work a lot with Big Loud, the team I've been working with, and uh yeah, and we were just I don't know, we were just like coming up with ideas and I was trying to write this really personal thing and I was like, well, we're listening to Shot. Because I was listening to Shot, so I was like, that's weird and I like listening to that. And so sometimes it's fun to you know, all these are the weird lyrics are always the ones that people tend to grab onto. Yeah, those the weird lyrics are always the home runs or just the busts whenever you do. And one of them that I would reference is whenever sam I puts out body like a back Road, which is you know she got hips like honey, first time I heard, I go, oh, that's a risk, you know because some of those but those paid off. Uh, obviously major Cadillac seats. We go way back. That's so good. That song is is so well written. It's like Paul McCartney would like be proud to write that song in my opinion, just like maybe that's a bold statement, but this is out of like a crafted like a pop concept song is so well executed. Something I was talking about recently is how pop it's supposedly a bad word now, like oh it's pot I'm not pop, Like, how's it? How did that get transformed in a bad word? It literally means popular. It can mean anything. And if we're really defining pop, like hip hop is pop now? Yeah, because yeah, I use that as like like big, okay, fair, but big meaning popular And if someone goes, oh, I don't I'm not into pop music. What does that mean? You're not into music that other people like? Like, that's a pretty bold statement. And then do you have to shift if if it's like if like you're like, I'm a Kings of Leon guy, and then they have a hit You're like, WHOA, I can't what I said a year ago, I don't pop music. I guess I gotta switch. Yeah, that's always a weird thing when people say they don't like pop, Like pop seems like it's a bad word to people. Yeah, not to me, I guess yeah. I mean I I don't really run in like I mean, I would consider Bonnie. They're like I have I don't know. Maybe that's a bad example, but there's yeah, pop is like I don't know if it's such a bad word. It used to be really bad word, like when it was like the Britney Spears like that era. But now I feel like pop is getting weird too. So it's like your stuff on the radio, and it's like can be really weird and cool but very very popular and very relatable. What's this spy here? Form Mike, this endorsement here fall let me talk about Blue Apron. Blue Apron is offering listeners their first three meals for free, and when it comes to dinner, let Blue Apron take care of the planning and the shopping while you do the cooking and the eating. 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Check out this week's men you get your first three meals for free Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast Blue Apron dot Com slash Bobby Cast Blue Apron a better way to cook. Okay, so let me ask you this question. You're a big music guy like myself, obviously probably bigger. Best live show you ever been to, best live show I've ever been to. Um Springsteen, I'm love him. I saw him that the Meadowlands right before they tore it down, you know, that's like the Giant Stadium, and he got out and they he he played like seven hours or something. Yeah, he and he was playing Born to Run that night, which is like, was amazing. And then he got up there and he started the show though with uh, pull out your wrecking ball, and it was like this they were going to tear it down, and he was writing about this and they had the words that they had his like whatever they you know, what do they give old people so they can remember their lyrics? Yeah? They have the teleprompter like all I have that. I mean, I don't think I'm that old. I just I just I associated more with like old rock bands, even though I need one now because like script lyrics. But but they put it on the big screens and it was just like he's going through the lyrics and bring out your reckon ball and he's reading. No, he was just playing the song, but they had the lyrics. No one never's the first time. I don't know. This song wasn't out, hadn't been released, so he just was like starting this song with this this show with this song. It was really beautiful that Elton John play with the prompter and so he has so many hits. Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. It's also seventy I saw Steven Tyler play with a prompter. I need one, So I'm right there with you. You got a lot of words, some of you a lot, but but you also wrote those a lot of words. I know, but that doesn't mean yeah, but every album you add like a lot more words. So if you haven't played something in a while, it's hard. But some stuff that just goes away. You don't remember every song, do you know every song? No? Okay, That's what I'm saying, like just goes away. It's you replace the new. No. Like there's been times where you're doing like an acoustic performance or something intimate where someone like, play this song, I'm like, what's the first line? Help me? You know, because I don't. Usually they're like, if you get the first one, you're good, and then like the first of the second verse, you're good. Those are like the hard parts. Yeah, So we'll do songs. I'm in a stupid band and even cover songs as long as I can get that first even word. I just gotta be put on the railroad track. Sometimes I can't find the railroad track. You put me on the roller tracking pretty good. I was playing a songwriter show the other night and we were playing at the Franklin Theater, which is about four hundred people, and I was a guest, a big songwriter, Lee Thomas Miller. He write a bunch of number one country Heather More again, and so we're playing and I'm watching. He puts his phone up because he's not normally a performer, he's a songwriter. He can sing, but you know it, probably writes a song a day. And he just had the first word, every line on his phone. He didn't have all the lyrics. He just had the first and that's all he needed. Because he wrote brother's Osborne. It ain't my fault. I don't know remember that song, and it's got a lot of words. He wrote it with them, and so he just had the first line of ever, and I thought, Oh, that's how to do it. That's all I need. Yeah, just get me going. It's the first line, all right, Yeah, I'll have a little line like similar first, just a couple of lines written on the piano and a piece of tape or something if I if I need to remember stuff. So spring Stein is your best live shows that when she played here, it was so good. It was so good, man, I still see that. Why was that good to It was just like, I don't know, I'm not even a Beyonce fan. It sounded so good. It was so over the top, like it sounded unbelievable and like just this big cube, like just as a spectacle. It was the coolest thing I've seen. What was the big Cube? It was this giant cube that was like as big as an entire building and it rotated and then it was all led screens too that like separated and it was just like and they were out in what Nissan what's it called the big football? So it was like larger than life, like it was like this building you were standing in front of, so it's like a feeling as a person. It was like, I don't know, they created this like whole world where you were standing in front of this building. I don't know, it's just really cool. I was reading some stuff about you because my my favorite artist is John Mayer, because I feel like they're only a few artists that actually speak the way you do, and you hear lyrics, you go, that's how I feel. There are a lot of songs I like. There are a lot of artists to say a lot of things I agree with. But I was a big John Mayor fan, Like I loved Room for Squares. But when Continuum came out and stop his trains on there, and it's like, you know, stop the train. You know, I'm only good to being young. That's my favorite lyric ever, have it down in my living room. I didn't realize you were on that, the continuum towards John. It was like, yeah, because I've had probably thirteen experiences with John and recently they've all been great. But I think to be completely awesome and weird, you also got to be weird. Like it's not just a compartmentalizing thing where you're only weird when you create art, but in real life you're normal. That's not how the world works. And at times John's been really weird. But but recently, the last many times you've been awesome. Um so the Continuum record for me, it's awesome. And I wonder, I guess he was cool with you. He was super cool and yeah, it was like sent me a when when we got the when we invited us to be on the tour we got I got a car that was handwritten, like, man so excited to have you out with us. And and then we came out. First day were first sound check, which was I saw me like ran to the Monderdeskin was watching a sound check for the first day and I was just like, which was not cool. Actually, I freaked me out. But yeah, he was. I mean, he was kind of his own world. He was dating Jessica Simpson at the time, so they were spending a lot of time together. And uh, but so I wouldn't say that we like hung out every day, but we had probably a dozen decent, really cool conversations or and I would seehim around. We we had the same lawyer for a minute, so I I'd run into him a couple of times. And I was walking down through Manhattan one day and I hear the mat you know, I look around, he's like running down the street and said high. And so he's always been really really kind to me. And I think there is like the John persona and the interviews and stuff that is a little like like row Bro. You don't need to say that, but I don't know, man, He's just I'm a fan too. I just loved what he does. And you know, there are some artists where I'm intimidated did by how good he is. I'm like, I feel like I should quit music when I see what John Mirror does. He came on my show. I saw the interview, so a bit of it. I was going, man, he's way too smart for me to even talk to you. And I'm going, I don't know How'm gonna get through this. There was it clicked about ten minutes in where then we just kind of yaid, he he has brain is doing something different. He's he's working on a different level, Like he's so much smarter than I am. And I was happy that at some point in the interview he just decided to dumb his brain down and and and bond with me over that. He was like, I think he had just started smoking weed a lot on the when we we're on tour and there's an after party and he was obviously like feeling it and he walked up to me like telling me about how he goes the Vegas. He was like, see what, I'm the biggest. It's like I'm counting cards and it's like it's like perfect pitch because d is right here. Oh and then like so if a king comes, like, oh, that's like a queen and then I do all the math in my head. And he was like talking ninety miles an hour, and I was like, what is happening? Your ain is weird? Bro? Like you're hearing like you're counting cards at a casino through pitch, Like that's not normal. You're like, yeah, that kind of weird person to make awesomely weird things. And for me, it's been kind of oddly awesome to be around a ton of creatives and see that to be that creative you have to be odd, and sometimes with odd you don't quite you don't have to jell. I don't have your friends with everybody to actually understand and appreciate their art. Yeah, I think there is a case for that. Yeah, I've I've I've heard you interview you like, but there are there's examples of people though that like Springsteen, he's I would say, he's he's not weird at all. You can't convince me that someone who does something so different isn't so different also in some part of his life some dark spots, you just can't. Yeah, I mean it's a hard one for me. I know, I was. I was listening to hear Chris Stapleton interview today. I was like, I was cramming for this and that was a really good one. Actually, Chris and I have it's it's been a good relationship. It was really good. Yeah, you were talking about like do you feel if you get if you fix yourself, that'll screw up, Like your chances are succeeding because the screwed up part is like which I was an interesting thought, which is kind of what you're saying right now, right Maybe, Yeah, I'm scared. I go to therapy. I try to fix myself, but just so much I want to fix it all the way because what if, what if I'll lose my drive? Like what if I'm so fixed that I don't have whatever it is. It's made me so freaking nuts to get to do what And if I'm not tortured just a little bit, I'm not on that edge that created what is doing like the ultimate? What's the what's the ultimate? What? What's it doing? Well, I'm just saying like, like I relate to that so much because are you getting a personality test or that kind of thing any Graham world or like it's like all my friends are into all my friends are into it too. Your it sounds like a three what you would say like an achiever, like you really want to go for things and and yeah, like resume it's like this. But I don't know. I've been in this weird world where I'm like, yeah, I just like to work and accomplish things and do things. That's me. I love accomplishments. I don't care about accolades. I have no absolutely no love on trophies. I love accomplishing things though because I'm not supposed to and my I'm the always listen to app swimpool now, which is crazy to me have swimpool, freaking swimming pool. It's crazy. I have a swim pool. So I go oh am I not done even like live in a you know, in an old department like I used to, to really have that creative edge that got me to this point. Is that Swimanpool going to equalize what and this is what goes through my mind. Gonna be chilling out too much? Last night I said on the porch, but your two hours and just watched my computer and listen to music, and I was like, what's happening to me? This is not me? Why am I not miserable? Miserable me works so much harder. But I would say for for for the Bobby bones like existence of health, like finding that balance is really you know, I don't know I'm in that. I'm in this journey too, because it's like I'm I'm going to my fifth record and you're like, man, okay, I've been on major labels, I've had success, I've done this, and you start like putting your whole kind of identity and existence into that and yeah, you can produce, but like at the core, like you know, you're much more than that. I'm much more than that what I accomplish and and ultimately great work and that stuff won't come out of just like insecurity fear like I think, like maybe some frantic work can, but I don't know. I think you're you're successful in spite of that, not because of that. Mm hmm. Yeah. I feel like again, I'm thirty eight. I have accomplishments, but I don't have a lot of real life stuff. You know, I went through some some some beast years that were very tough, and I think that's created a lot of walls for me. And I like to control what I can control because I wasn't able to control a lot earlier. So now but yeah, so my question is do you know anybody, Oh dude, this is I love it. This is like my own I'm going through these same things in the fact that like Burnee Brown is this author that I love. She's amazing. She's like a Ted Talks, like the most watch Ted talks, and she talks a lot about uh, perfectionism, and like I would have I when I work on a record, when I work on something, when I put on a show, I work really hard. And perfectionism is this thing where you think you can like be free from criticism or because you're it's going to be perfect, no one can pokeohole at me. Then because I've created this perfect thing, and she does this whole argument about how, uh no, that's actually not like data proves that your perfectionism is actually gets in your way. It's actually your successful in spite of your perfectionism. Like perfectionism, when they break it down to what it does to you and yours, it actually doesn't help. And it's really an interesting thing that I've been kind of diving into. Do you worry getting deep? Are you going to be so balanced though now that you have a baby that you're not going to be able to create that I'm so unbalanced because I had a baby, bro Like I am, Like, maybe you're nutty. I had like poop stains on my shoulder. That's not balanced on both shoulders, that'd be balanced, Yeah, it was only on one I would be. I'm gonna play Here's Kings and Queens. By the way. I love this song MATC Harney, Here's singing we don't need no bag. Make this feel about we don't need no kills killed queens. That's I think my favorite song wrecord, which is why like I would have had you come and play it by yourself, but had you and when I saw you and Jillian both and Jillian are cool. Yeah. I was like, oh it's my favorite too, I love it. Yeah, and she I loved having her there. So how did you two get together to do the acoustic version of the song? Well, just working, you know, I've kind of been in a transition with like my team and different people, and so I've been working with Big Loud in Nashville, and uh, she was one of their artists and I just became a fan because we're around her and you're seeing the music she's creating, and um, I wanted to put at an acoustic version. And I went to my manager of SETH and I was like, yo, um, would Jillian be on it? And he's like, I don't know how to send it to her? And she was like, let's do it. So yeah. It was really like she's such and she is crazy good in the studio. She sings and it's not like a normal person like perfect takes perfect. Yeah, just crazy. I'm a fan of her music. And then I took her out on tour for a couple of months. Whenever be like I said, the dumb band, we're actually fun to watch, but we're not very good. I'm the lead singer Church how good we are. But still we're we're pretty, we're entertaining. We're very entertaining. So she comes out and she opens live nails it the thing about Jillian that was crazy to me, And I say, hey, come out and do a song, not for my sake, but for your sake, because you'll saw a bunch more merch if you come out during my set when people are really dialed into the show, and I'll be like and buy merch. You know. He still come out. So she comes out and we can play anything. You know, we've we can play anything badly. So I said, hey, what do you know? It's the first night I should have went over with her before. She's like, I don't know anything, Like you know, you just have to sing. What do you know? She says, I know nothing. I don't know any songs, any popular from the seventy Do you know nothing? She knew no songs. It was all hipster songs. All she knew was hipster songs. And so then finally she goes, why no crazy, And I'm like, okay, crazy, and so we so nobody knows it, and so my bassist, who's also a crazy good guitar player, we have to switch it. So all tour long, my Basis played bass whole night. Then on Jillian's song My Bassis, she would grab the guitar from my guitar player and come up and earn Jillian will play crazy and it was a nice moment. But Jillian's like so cool, she doesn't because she doesn't know she's cool. She's pretty cool. Yeah, her videos are super Yeah, she's cool. Man, here's the money. I like this one too. This is on this is not crazy talk. When you go into a record like this, it this has a different style to it. All your records have slightly different different styles, and this one, you know, there's definitely some electronic flavor inside of this. Is it a decision that maybe there are songs that didn't have it? There you go, we should probably add it. So the records fluid, uh no, because I've always had like pretty schizophrenic records and not been afraid of that. So there's always like a weird fulk moment or like there's a song called wanted Man on this record that's very like, I don't know, some weird like James Taylory song or something. Yeah. Yeah, So yeah, there's definitely uh, there's definitely like textures and themes and concepts you're working on, But no, I just I've always been like of the Beatles camp. It's like each song is kind of its own world and as long as they're great songs and they're not like jarring kind of, it's more of a collection of songs than is this like concept record play some Wanted Man and Crime You'd take my You make me feel wanting man, You make me feel wanting man? How long this record? What's this? What's your studio on? Light on this? Uh? It took about three years to write all the songs because I was writing while I was finishing up my other record. And then man, I don't know, it's like comes some songs like we took a day, some took six months, and I bet it was a beer eight months kind of off and on. But I was going through a lot of different things. I was it was my first I had worked as a manager. Greg Ladderman, who's like an amazing human and found me and actually signed John Byron found him and started this record called A Were Records, And we were getting this place where I was like, I'm going into my fifth record. I needed something new I needed like a new perspective of new life, and and I wanted out of my major label deal. I was just kind of ready to do something different and uh so I was going through all that. So this record was it was. It took a lot of time and also went really fast because there was a lot and I had a baby. It was just like this weird It was the weirdest creative season in my life. You do hip hop, you can see that a hip hop artist? Me. Yeah, I mean no, okay, but you said, I mean, so there's part of you that does you probably think you're better than a lot of hip hop artists. Now, no, no, no, no, no, I mean I always always started. I started that way. What was funny was I didn't had zero music upbringing. I didn't actually start doing music to college at all. But I but in high school we would like when I was being a punk kid and graffiti. We'd go. There was this legal graffiti wall in Eegene, Oregon. I got really into because it was really creative and all my friends were these like kind of skater punk kids and we'd paint murals and for fun we would put on like an instrumental outcast instrumental or like Wu Tang Clan instrumental and like makeup songs on the way back to school. So basically freestyle. Yeah we're freestyle and uh yeah. We just started like I got really good at it. I was like shockingly good, and then I started like not being funny, and I was like, get really personal and tell these stories and everybody's like whoa. And then I started writing songs and writing like my own songs, the outcast instrumentals, and they would kind of my senior year, they were like people would kind of pass them around the school. I was like, whoa, this is crazy people who like what I'm doing. So that was kind of my journey into that world. But I wasn't singing yet. So yeah, I've always had this kind of like autobiographical kind of documentary style talking spoken word hip hop influence. Would you say hip hop? Would you say spoken words lamp poetry. It's funny because because as soon as you say, I would not, I'm not a hip hop artist in the sense of like I just I just would feel very uncomfortable using that. I would say I'm definitely influenced by it, and like like Ed Sheeran would be influenced by it or like a you know, but to put myself in that world. I did do an interview with like I was like, one of the coolest invites I got to an interview. Was this like Canadian hip hop blog or something. They wanted to interview me for a record. I was like, yeah, I'm in. Someone accepted me in that world. But but I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't. Um. I don't know. I just I grew up on it and it just crept its way into my music because I didn't know how to do anything else. I couldn't even sing yet, but I could kind of wrap this weird melodic like storytelling. You did win hip Hop Song of the Year in two thousand six for train Wreck, a double work. Yeah wow, okay, evening you got what's that make you think about? I don't like the song? What? Okay? Why don't you like the song? I don't know just this, I don't know what do I mean? It's not and I don't hate it, no, no, but what do you think when it comes on? Uh? Like it was another era of me creatively. It's probably like when the probably like the seventh song I've ever written in my life and you want a double work for it, Well, I won't make you keep listening. No, no, it's interesting. Well actually turn it back up with me lost for these words, this motion of the silent side of flat was. I probably even listened to this in eight years. Yeah, that's pretty That's definitely more wrap than you can tell me if you believe this. And I wrote that I have a book come in a couple of weeks, and I wrote about this that if you're if you continue creating, then not what you're creating, but if you continue creating and you're not somewhat embarrassed by what you've created in the past, you're not moving forward, you're not distancing yourself from it. You can be proud of it and still be embarrassed by it. There are old things that I've done that I've been embarrassed by, but I'm proud of them because they got me to the next spot. They got me to the next spot. So my theory is, if you listen to something a few years ago and you're not embarrassed by it, I mean you're probably still in the same spot. Like if you're not embarrassed that you haven't grown, so you hear that. Do you think I just grown so much as an artist or you're like it wasn't thinking come on, I mean maybe like that's definitely like the more hip hop leaning that was me coming out of that world. So it's probably more like directly influenced in trying to occupy that space of like the hip hop thing, which I don't know if you like, I don't know if that fit me to the core. You know, you're trying things, and sometimes you tried, you know, sometimes you're like you look back at a picture, You're like, why why did I wear those jeans? Like, come on, you've grown, like like you've grown for those four months. I thought those jeans were so cool? Why but I was way off? Yeah maybe, yeah, you're right, you've grown. You have grown. I've grown taller a bit later in life too, oddly, really oddly, I don't know why I to keep growing and always yoga or something, you getting better posture. You do yoga because I do a little yoga. I love it. I just I don't do anything, So you don't You don't stop doing anything because you don't do anything. Yeah, exactly, you don't do anything, and you're and you're You're like, you're very disciplined, to disciplined doing anything for a long period of time and stuff. Even not doing something is doing something right like respect, Like that's my thing. Let me talk about sleep number for a second. Maybe you've heard me talk about my amazing sleep number three sixty smart bed. They're so smart they respond to your every movement and they automatically adjust to you. The great news is their latest smart beds are even more comfortably priced during their semi annual cell going on right now. So many couples disagree on mattress firmness. I can't wait to be a couple of the disagrees on mattress firmness. Wouldn't be nice just to have a couple. Ah Sleep number beds let you choose your ideal firmness on each side so it's right for both of you. You can actually feel how it contrast your next shoulder back SIPs, and it relive, it releaves pressure points. There's even an adjustment for snoring. How about that. My sleep number setting is thirty. My sleep I can score last night? Mm hmm, I didn't look. I'm just trying to be honest, but I will say that it's usually in the low nineties. I do move a bit right now, if you're listening the semi annual sale to see the latest sleep Number three sixty smart beds with special Memorial Days savings up to seven hundred bucks. Right now, there are more than five hundred and sleeping five sleep number stores. Visit sleep number dot com slash bones to find the store nearest to you. Alright, so crazy to talk. You put on twelve songs, eleven of yours and cover accurate. How do you feel about albums now? Because I mean, you put out a record. We're in the world now where the debate is. You know it is an album worth it because you can put out just the math. You can put out ten songs and they'll stream it a million each being can put out one song and if it's strange, ten million, you actually make more than if you did. Yeah. That so, and it's also all the flashing lights and remaining in the marketplace. Because you put out a full record, you kind of shot a shot for a minute. So I just wonder your thoughts on the album in today's consumer environment. Well that was really why the approach on this record was we actually put out I think it was five or six songs, five songs before the album came out and then released the final I think six. The sixth song would have been on the day that it dropped, so that doesn't really count, but the really seven at the end. And I still think that album obviously is super valid as an artist, and its like someone who. I think my fans weren't that. I think they wanted a body of work to listen to, you know, put on there on the boat driving around or there driving home from work. I think they want a body of work to immerse themselves in from you, um, the core fans, but there's definitely people who, you know, it's definitely moving in a way. It's almost like the fifties. It's very single driven, and I don't think it's all bad. I think it's you know, like I was reading a Bondo Bonno interview and there it was this kind of laziness that if you were a big band or you could just like you needed one song that really was great, and then you could kind of put out your album and they could be concept songs. And uh, some of that's sad that we've lost that, but some of it's also good because it's really aid. Songwriting has to be better. You can't just put like you just can't throw something on an album and call it done. You have to, like, literally, each song has to be a very noteworthy experience in itself for people to care about it. And I think that's not bad. It's an investment in time now, you know, back in our day, because we're really at the same age that you would go buy a CD. I remember going to buy the right set Fred c D because I wanted I'm Too Sexy and I couldn't get on Too Sexy without buying the whole album. And it was I'm Too Sexy around track three seven right pieces of garbage maybe one other song that was okay, but they got you because to get that one song you had to go to Walmart and buy the c D. Now you have the option to check or plus mark or what it didn get rid of these songs immediately, and even if you like something, there's seventeen new albums coming out on Fresh Music Friday or whatever it is. It's crazy how much music comes out right now. So it's harder to matter, Yeah, it is harder to matter. It's harder to stay in the marketplace. I mean, it's harder to cut through. It's hard. Yeah, it's it's interesting. It's an interesting challenge. And I've been in the business long enough where I've seen it kind of. I was probably the tail end of the last garb of like, you know, my Columbia. When I put out my first targ on Columbia. UM, I think we spent like just the money was different, everything was different. It was very We spent like almost three grand on the first music video. I didn't know. I'd had nothing to do with that. That's just what the label did. They're like, no, there's what We're gonna shoot film for three days and it's a really beautiful video. But I just that whole model of kind of building this huge promotional piece around one song to drive an album sales. Yeah, it's died. It's not it's no longer a thing. It won't ever be a thing, probably right. And the great thing about that though, is, as we talked about the negatives, is that every song had really has to be at this point, you know, you can't put out garbage because it just won't exist at all. It's will just be h filler, Like there's no filler really what which to me. It's really I think it's encouraging in the sense of, like I love, that's how I create. That's kind of how I create too. I don't create like these kind of concept albums. Songs are very um, they're their own children. And then you get an album together and yeah, there's there's similar textures and you're working with like different layers. But each song really is its own thing, and if it's not like special, it doesn't make the record, regardless of what the sonics or if it fits better. I don't know. I've never really been that way. It's very like the songs raise their hands themselves. So it fits me because I like putting out songs that I believe in. It's tough for the consumer to digest twelve songs. It just really is, especially when we let's compare to something else Netflix, when there are a hundred shows offered to us, and the first moment in the show that we're watching, we feel like that it's not for me. We just jumped to the next one. Yeah, right, And so in a twelve fourteen song eleven song record, see at track four and you go, I don't know not next you go to the next thing, and so you know, time is so valuable now and these records. I was listening to Bob left sets. Do you know who he is? My any change? Okay? He was talking about how they will only be concept albums in the future. Otherwise it's just put out good songs one to three stay in the marketplace. Only concept albums makes sense. It does make sense now. I don't know about the concept album, you know, my and I start to think about radio in the world of you know what I do, Well, here's what the future of radio to me and not my I don't do radio for Terrestrial, it's part of it. I mean, we have, you know, six million people a week to listen to Terrestrial and another three or fourth listen digitally. But it's shifting, it's slowly shifting. People will come and they listen to my show, not because of the music, the music companies, the show we talk about, but they listened to her opinions, thoughts. They're here to laugh, here to cry, you know, it's uh the only place that they can find. You know, Howard Stern or Charlemagne the god or is on our channel and so well radio is going to turn into is back to the fifties how music is. And you're gonna listen for your DJs to tell you what songs they like instead these universal, interesting programmed playlists. It's going to alter all the charts and you're gonna have a few guys. Otherwise, why would you listen to something in five years, three years? It just tells you what to hear when everything is available for you. A playlist for everything. There's a playlist for everything. When mood are you right you gotta fart? Gotta playlist feeling good? Yeah, yeah, that moment you can y Yeah, poop on your shirt? Yeah, the on the shirt playlist. That's a good one. Actually, Oh is it? There's a lot of back You work at the Starbucks by the Rhyman. They told me that before you come in the radio show. I never brought it up. I think I got lost in your eyes or something. But what what was that story? Uh? Yeah, I used to work at the Starbucks on Fifth and Church and uh walk by the Rhyman all the time, and there was I mean it was would have been so far fetched to actually think I'd play there. And we played there the second time on this last tour, and which was about a little more special because um just because it was moving slower. I could like the first time we played though, yeah, I was telling the story funny. I was like, we're doing the special thing. We should probably have like unied content for everything, right, So I'm like, get a get a video guy down here. It's like film this. We'll put a little piece together for the fans. Let him know. But I was very was the end of the tour was very much. By that time, you kind of um like things are working for you, Like it's it's like a well oiled machine. You kind of know when you're on autopilot a little bit, like with the show. And and we're doing the interview and there I'm like, okay, now we need to get some content. Let's do an interview. They're like okay, so they're filming me and tell them about the story, like a story get Starbucks. And I never thought i'd play here and out of nowhere, I like can't talk. I'm like bawling in this interview. And this guy I don't even know him. He's just like a dude the camera that I just like we found someone knew him and I'm just he's looking at me like I'm like, I can't. Yeah, I was just really meaningful to be in this place and in Nashville with so many legends that have played there, and uh, I feel a little bit like I'm fooling everybody, but to be there, it's just it was really special. And the second time was even more special, just because I actually felt like I slowed down on purpose. Do you have a poster syndrome? Oh? Yeah, I have it heavily. When you said that, I was like, oh, I get that, but I mean you hear you right, like you're actually good. Well, I mean you always hear yourself. But I know how I got there, you know, Like I think when you write a song, you're like, oh, they're definitely moments that you um. The great songs are freaky, they're spooky, they just show up, but they're just like given to you. It's really odd. I wish I understood it more, but like, great songs just appear, and those moments are definitely like whoa, this is cool, Like whatever is happening, however, I've been made and wired that this can happen in my life is really special and I am in all of those moments, but they still don't feel like me, they feel like outside of me, and then uh, the rest of it. You see all the hard work and labor, and that goes into something you're like, oh, I get how I kind of pulled this one off, Like I get it, like I did this and then I put this chord in there and then I said this, and I don't know. I still feel like I'm fooling everybody. Yeah, I do too, I really really do. I feel And I've said this before that like I'm on a string of seven eleven robberies and eventually they're gonna catch me. It's just a matter of time. Because you don't rob seven elevens forever. Eventually they catch up with you and go, Okay, you're done, time to go to jail. You've been robbing seven elevens. And that's how I feel, because I don't really I don't only have a talent. You can sing and I'm a fish. You have a talent that Yeah, I was just a listening to you. Yeah, but okay, but carry on. I think you're very talented. Okay, thank you. I mean my own way. That's a problem. No, it's a unique talent. It's very unique. It's why it's super unique. Actually it's really cool. But yeah, but can you rip with John Mayr soul? No? No love to me to come on, I want to do everything. I'm a mediocre comedian. I'm a media I can I don't even speak right. I'm a radio I can't even speak like my mouth doesn't even work right. I don't. I don't talk well. My grammar is not good. I get being typing, do nothing particularly well. I just I just work, and I feel like eventually, you know, they're much more talented people. But I heard you say that. I'm like, oh wow, Maccarnier has a poster syndrome. Were the same, wihoul your best friends, it'll be like I don't belong here. Well together, we'll do that to each other, like he asked me out to coffee, he doesn't want to be here. Oh man on dates a long time. But I would feel every relationship early on, like why are they really dating me? They probably really don't want to date me. They probably just like that I'm talking to them on the radio, pus an accountant, but they date me? No, I go through that? Did you go through that? That's how I met my wife? Like? Uh, partly maybe my like insecurity of like I will win you, but also she just didn't care. I remember I met her. I met her at Anthropology in town. She was shopping. I was shopping. We knew we had friends in common. And I walked up to her and I was like, there was a group of friends. And I thought she was cute and I thought I was like, hey, have we met before? She goes no like that. I was like, oh okay, sorry, I was like, we met. I go, I go, we've met before? She was no, like that, And and she doesn't even remember that. This just sums it up. She doesn't even remember that interaction, right. I remember it deeply. She was wearing purple boots. I put it in a song. This whole Hey Mama was the song. It's about this whole interaction. And she doesn't remember it at all. Uh. She said she had a margarite at lunch. That's why she hasn't remember it. But I think that's she just doesn't remember it. But yeah, like we so we I met her. I saw a fido with coffee, shop, went up to her, got her like I think we are. It was my Space era. We had a friend in comment. I saw her. So I commented on her page or something, and then we went on a date. And then a month had gone by, and this is after nothing Left the Losers happened. So I was like, I had like a gold record. It was like a big deal. And about a month into dating, she's like, hey, I heard one of your songs. I was like, oh yeah, She's like, yeah, it's pretty good. Changed the subject. I was like, you just don't care at all. I was like, you can help me, you know. It was like it was definitely like if I went to Tom. I was like, I'm gonna be a janitor. She's like okay, she which is what I love about her and also what it's incredibly challenging also because sometimes you just want a fan be like, honey, you're the best of You were like you are the best writer I've ever heard. The way you use that lyric. No, that's never gonna happen in our relationship. How do you impress her? Then? What was it? How do I impress her? How do I impress my wife? I I turned off my phone and I say, do you want to go for a walk. It's like the lamest stuff. It's not lame. I'm joking, but very much goes against like what drives me every day. So how did you? Quality time is her thing? I don't like quality time. I'll tell you what I like. I'm words. I can give you words, I can like you know, help you love languages? Here were we share in physical touch so we can kind of like snuggle on the couch watching Netflix. That that works, So that's kind of a go to for us. But what was your what do you ask me? And what did What was it that got her though? Because it didn't sound like it was Hey, he's a musician. She just I mean, I think the music was not it. If anything, the music was like she did do like it was liability with that kind of lifestyle. Um, I think it was. We just we was really clicked and fell in love and I thought she was She was really sweet and kind and uh yeah, she cared about people a lot, and and she thought I was funny and I don't know, interesting and really ravishingly handsome. I was gonna say, how does she not think that? I mean, she was very attractive. And that's all I say about you. When you need him in person, you will be blown away. Good looking, you bring up nothing let me let's play this one. This is I felt being a fan of your music a bit odd asking you to play this song just because I go I'm a fan. He probably doesn't play this song anymore. Song. Love the song really really I like to hear that because I'm a fan, and I always don't like because I like to have a moment and you're like, oh, finally they're playing the song that I love so much. Yeah, and your I just had. I just had. If you notice, uh, on the end of the course, there's like a missing measure. I just had lunch with the drummer who played on it yesterday, Lindsay Jamison, and uh, it actually has a drop measure if you if you try to clap. No one's going to care about this. I know they will actually, but there you know you you got one two three four four. Usually there's like the court changes, it goes one to three one two three four. It skips a whole measure which has this weird one more time to find you that whole thing. And it was really odd. And I was in the studio and I was like the drummers like, wait, what are you doing? You can't do that. I was like oh, should we add another measure? And he's like, no, that's genius, that is amazing. I was like, really, okay, let's keep it in there. And but yeah, that's song just kind of fell out of the sky. Was the extra measure. Uh so you got to but do you hear it every think about it every time to three one two three one two? So there was there's like a does anyone care about this? Yeah? No, I do. I'm actually because I wonder this is something that nobody else is going to notice. But I wonder if you notice every time you hear the song. I don't. I just wrote it that way. You usually you should play a chord, like the normal structure of pop music in general would be, you know, you play one and two and three and four and one and two and three and four. That's what naturally everyone feels normal to people. But the way I wrote the melody one more time to fund and we changed chord and find you had this total like actually really nice release to skip that measure. So I just did it naturally writing I didn't even know I was playing my guitar by myself. I didn't even know what I was doing. I just did it because it felt like the coordina did change there, and uh yeah, I was like, A, I don't think about it, but it is. Uh. When we played Conan with a song a long time ago, Max Weinberg Springsteen, he's like, what they didn't tell you the old studio was. He was like ten ft the band is ten feet from me. The st cross angles, so you think it's much bigger than it was. They were. They were like hovering over us like it was. And they played like you know, they're they're like bumper music. It's like right, just like like it's so good and so intense. And then they're like and Matt Carney and they point to you and Max stands up, puts his drums under his arm and stares at me over his shoulder, arms crossed like ten ft from me, like right off camera. But you're just like, WHOA. Max is intimidating me and he's trying to write and we get to the chorus one moment time and every drummer freaks out over that I do that, and I he would get to the drop measured and he's like knees buckle and he's like okay, and then he starts like vibe into it, and then he waits for the next one and we get to the second course and he's like throws his hands up, He's like, yes, that part right there, and then we kept getting to it like it was winning Max over as the show was going and I was like, this is gonna be like, this is the greatest moment of my life. I was watching a video of Harry Connick Jr. And he was playing and the crowd was clapping on the wrong but you know they're clapping up. They're probably clapping on one and three instead of two and four. And I watched him take his band and shift the song. It's an amazing YouTube video. And if you're a music nerd, you're fascinated that you can't do it, but you understand and he takes it and he shifts it so there. So they're playing on the two and four and they don't even know, they have no idea, they're just like, oh, we got swaggy. Look. Look if you think about if you leave this room and you ever think about this experience again, look at that video. It's amazing. Crushing it. Well, that's that's the funny thing is that's the problem, and nothing left to lose because I couldn't sit in and play it with anybody. I remember. Uh, I feel like I'm name dropping. But Kenny did the thing with the Whalers, right, and we had become kind of like acquaintances around that record. He was way into that record and he randomly texted someone or me and was like, Hey, we're at down Tutsis. You should come hang out. We're doing this. Yes, were it or I was no, No, We're just I was just it was like he had invited some people down by the way. Okay, I'll do it gladly. I'm a three on the Instagram, was like lead with my resume, That's what I do. Uh. But but they he said come on down and we're just hanging out. And he was doing the thing with the Whalers. What you're that was a while ago, right, So he was like Bob Marley's Whalers. He was doing like his reggae thing and they were the house band and he was playing songs and he's like, Hey, my best friend that I don't even really think, my best friend I've only talked to on the phone, come on up here, because we've been talking the phone for a while and he's like, well, let's play that one song, nothing left to lose. I'm like, well, there's a drop Like you can't in front of a crowd, be like, well, there's a drop measure. So we're established the tempo. But then when we do it, you like and I'm like going to the song like, there's no in the band doesn't know the song dud. They're from Jamaica, they're like stoned, like they don't listen to Mattcarney music. And we get to the chorus and I'm like, there's no way this is gonna work, but I just I'm going and every time we get to that and they would like it would like finally we get some momentum going in the band and we hit that part and it would just be like someone came through with like a baseball bat and just like took out all the instruments. It was just like chaos. And then we kind of gather our strength again and like everybody, Okay, we got this figured out, and I get to the drop measure in the next chorus and it was like everyone slowly played quieter and be like, yeah, it was it was. It doesn't work. It's like musical nerd porn. That's what you just did right there for people that love it that they loved that, dude. I mean we were talking for hour. I appreciate the time. Man, Man, my pleasure. Man, I'm a big fan. I'm yeah, I think the record fantastic. You know when anytime you put out new music, I'm like, oh, wonder what this is gonna be about. So yeah, and I think I who fully because I think I was probably at adding you on Instagram early. I'm going, hey, check it out, so I'm not lying. Sometimes I lie. Who cares, right, I've been like, yeah, it's pretty pretty good. Not usually, but sometimes, uh well, everybody check out the record. I've enjoyed the time. And if I told you I saw you in the airport once and when you talk to you, because I was like, oh, it's my Garney. The next time, I'm for sure I'm gonna take a picture of you and then send it to you. And but like I just saw you at the airport. Probably just don't want to come up to you. But you're a flying Southwest dude rocking the South all right, good to see you. But Matt Carney and uh but by the way again, don't forget to check out Christian Bush's podcast called Geeking Out. Also, you can go back many episodes and listen to Red Akins or John Oates from Hollow Notes or Chris Stapleton and against stream download Mats Record, check it out. Maybe you'd be a new fan. All right, thank you very much. You next time, everyone,