#293 - George Thorogood on notoriety of his song “Bad to the Bone” and Performing in 50 States in 50 days + Jake Brennan host of Disgraceland on the Dark Side of Musicians

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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode to three. We gotta call a couple of days ago, said, Hey, George thorow Goods in town, legendary rock blues musician. He's got the song bad to the Bone, which you may know, which is right here. Hey, Hey, let's to talk to you do a little interview. And I was like, great. I was a big George throw good fan as a kid because I listened to classic rock radio all the time, and so he has a song bad at the Bone. He played fifty states and fifty days he opened for the Rolling Stones. He had like six seven big hits. But hang out, we do that the most recognizable rock song from the seventies. We'll talk about that, Eddie and I come in to talk about that too. So very classic rock oriented show this week. But we talked to Jake Brennan, host of disgrace Land, which is not about classic rock so much, but he does the dark side of musicians, but a lot of that stuff. He talks about it a lot of these artists from back in the day, and I even asked him, Hey, who's way different than their stage persona, like, who did we see on TV or do we read about in the books? And watch on the Internet and go oh they were like this, but they were the exact opposite. He talks about that all that coming up. Glad you guys are here. Here are the five releases that I'm most excited about this week. At number five, it is Sasha Sloan with Sam Hunt. This is a song called when Was It Over? When was It Over? When was the moment she was? It's still not over for me. It's still not over for me. I'm still holding it. Sounds like a pretty country is song for someone who's put out a bunch of pop stuffs um at number five. There You Go. At number four, Reba has a new song called Somehow You Do. It is for a movie called Four Good Days. It centers on a mother who desperately tries to help her daughter survive a drug addiction. It opens apt Here's a clip of that song, Somehow You Do So Hell. At number three this week, Justin Moore has a new album called Straight Out of the Country. Here's the song the title track called Straight out of the Country. Stick Nickson Sexist, where the Hard Chip sin Free Just Sling Straight at countree. At number two. Jamison Rogers has a new album called in it for the money. Here's a new song out called Rolling Rock, Rolling Stones. I love the dance with women. I love it, says the sus sip start me Up by Dream Bust talk about you guys really good. He has another song called good Dogs that came out a couple of weeks ago. I encourage you guys to check that whole whole ep new album out he has. And then number one, I bring on special guests talk about this one. It's Eddie who you hear from? Later? Eddie got the microphone, yo, I want to ask you about the number one song we have on the list here. It's from Bobby Bones and the Raging Idiots with John Party. I'll play it first. I hear is can't say that in a country song. No, you can't see that in a country song. No, he can't say No, he can't say that. No, you can't say that country. But it was like the day in the studio we're recording this, Oh man, it was a beautiful day actually, and John was there. Super I remember pulling up to the parking lot and John was in his pickup truck and I didn't know it was John. I go, who's that dude? Just sitting there and he was just chilling. No cowboy hat, nothing, but he has an old old pickup truy. It was John Party. He walks in and dude, we're just ready to roll. I mean we were ready to go. John when he got on that mic, I think, I'm just used to you and me being in the studio and it's like, you know, hey, you can't say that. And then John gets on the mic and he's like he Then I'm like that downd so good. He's loud, and he's so good. He's so good. That's when you know, like, all right, that's a real artist right there. He did like three takes of singing and all three are perfect. It took longer with him to do the ad libs. Yeah, because we're the comedian, right, we're being funny. Is that wad do that? Good? I'd do it again, But it's singing perfect for me and taking like a hundred singing a hundred times to sing it, and like ad libs I get the first time. I don't know. You know, you walk into this thing and usually there's an engineer who's just doing the board. He's doing all the recording on the the computer or whatever, and he doesn't really know the music. He's just kind of there because he's paid what hourly Bones and so seeing his response on a comedy song is usually how I gauge it. And he was cracking up, so I'm like, all right, this this is good. Then, yeah, you gotta check out Bobby Bones and the Raging Idiots new song with John Party. Can't say that in a country song. People ask how do you get an artist on your song? And I just said, hey, John, will you sing on this song? And he's like, yeah, let me hear it? He said, he actually said yes, let me hear it. Oh yes, first yes, so we agreed for then said let me hear it, and then we were gonna record it way pretty pandemic because we have a live version of this already out on the Live and Little Rock record, and he's like, man, I'm trying to get that song, and they shut everything down, and finally when they kind of open things back up again, we wouldn't recorded it. But even when we were playing that live, you you would even be like, hey, man, who would be a good artist to do this with? And I think immediately we're like it's John Party, Like it's just I think without thinking too hard about it. He's the guy that'd be perfect for this song. So that's number one. Check that out stream it, Like what what you should do is stream it when you leave your house and now to keep playing over it over again, because nobody's gonna stream our music. So it's our own little joke towards the music industry. I mean that's what I do. Yeah, I leave it on repeating. I added to your playlists morning music. K Moore has a new song called good Live. Eric church is um third album, Heart and Soul Soul is out. Chris Lane has a new song called Filed, and Boots like Shelton has Bible Versus. Brett Young has a new song called not Yet. Uh there you go. That's all the music coming out. Let's see bad Bunnies tours the fastest selling towards like really like he's so good. Do you know anything about him? I saw him with WrestleMania. Was he Puerto Rican? I don't know, Puerto Rican or something. He's just so good, Like I I dig his music like not my style ever, but I don't know. And then my my little foster baby, he loves jamming too, it too I mean he's part Puerto Rican. I guess Demi Lavato apologizes for blasting in l a frozen yogurt chop. Do you see that story? What does? She gets on Instagram and she's like, why we shame and diet culture and the company comes back and goes, hey, we're not. We need non sugar options for people to have diabetes. That's because she went and she was like, why are we making food cold? It shouldn't. We shouldn't have sugar free. We shouldn't And the company goes back, goes, hey, people need sugar. The options guys let people live. So that was a pretty quick backtrack on her party. Boy, it's just to get on Instagram and have an opinion real quick. Those always risky. Yeah, Like you should calm down. I have to, I struggle. You should calm down and run it by somebody first and be like I'm about to do this because I did that with Caitlin a couple of times. Like I'll just go on and pissed. She's like, Oh, I don't think you should do that. It's like chess, you gotta look at your options. If I make this move, what's going to happen? Do I really feel good about this move, and I ready for the repercussions and if so, go for it. But I don't think she understood why that they had those other options and they came out and they were like, hey, we've thought long and hard about this, and they have a lot of people who all right, that's it. Enjoyed today's podcast. I know I did, And that's all by everybody. Oh she got The bizin Tape podcast like music. It's a new music podcast with two guys, I'm calling and Joe. It's like the inside of the business part of music. They talked about how much money does d mx is children have to split in the Battle ahead. They're also talking about the return of ticket scalpers and how every concert you might want to go to might already be sold out and maybe how you can get around that. So check out the biz Tape. It's a really good music podcast, The Biz Tape. Thank you, enjoy the show. Alright, fifteen songs. We're gonna go way back before we were both born in the nineteen seventies. Let's go. But they say you can identify them with just a couple of notes. Now, in the last episode, we did this one remember that one? Yeah? What was it called again? Paranoid? Paranoid by Black say, I will remember that now from now on. And then there was this one what you called Mississippi Mud, which I later realized as an ice creamers on their cake and guitar heroes where you know this from Cool ninety five? Yeah, but which is where Cool ninety five comes from? Yeah? Okay, So let's see how many you can name here? Can you name in the first few notes? This one? Mm, that's Cream? Okay? The same yep, but you don't haven't got it right? Same Layla? Do you know the band though? Okay, it's not Cream, same person Eric Clapton. What other band was he in? Derek and the Dominoes. Yeah, I say, I wouldn't gotten that. Let's good, though, be embarrassed. I'd be embarrassed to tell you that I was thinking twisted Sister there for a second. Embarrassing. I'd encourage MIKEE to edit that out um Layla, which he later redid on his unplugged album Like the Late Daies early nineties, which was You Got Me All My Knees. That's where he plays that beginning part and everyone goes nuts right there. So same song, just acoustic. Next up, can you name this one? Come on? Maybe in that bathroom. Uh, it's not Smoke on the Water. Gosh, you won't get this one. You'll know it, you'll know the band name. But it's a Jethro toll awkwa lung. Come on, which, by the way, this whole seventies thing is because George Thorogood should be on this podcast later today. Very cool. Yeah, as a right necklace supposed to be on. Yeah. Next up, you'll know this one for sure. Go ahead. Yeah. Stairway to Heaven led Zeppelin, Stairway to Heave a nice show, and she's kind buying buying, Really she's buying. He's buying a stairwaid to happen. She was climbing. I thought she was like the going up to see the Jolly Green Giant, unless she's buying it to go see Jack and the Beanstalk. Huh how about that. I've been seeing that wrong my whole life and done. Remember this is the five minute intro, and we can listen to all of it Magic one oh five Class of Croc all the time, but they hated this intro. Get the lead out. It's Thursday, led Zeppelin, let's go all right, here we go next up? Can you name this one? No one out? It's like behind blue Eyes the Who. That's right, no one knows what it's like to be the bad. My son and I went through a hole like let's flash back to the Who. Because he didn't know anything, but he I guess he heard Babo o'relly on some TV show and he's like, that's a good song, Like, oh, give me an hour and I'm gonna show you the best of the Who. And he loved it. You know what happened to kind of bring that song back a little bit was Lamb Biscuits coming right when they did the same song. You know what, it's pretty good too. It was good. Actually, I like Lamb Biscuit. Um, can you name this other one? Go on, Alice Cooper. School's out, nice out slow, Yes, schools out for days? Some confused? Right there? Okay, this one you'll get go ahead, maybe you won't get the band Hm, I got both Smoke on the Water, deep purple. Nice first song I learn how to play guitar. I think for a lot of people either first or second. Metallica, Uh Metallic? Uh really yeah? That was my first two because you don't have to touch anything strings. What song is that? That's a melting else matters? Hold on fore a second and they call it on. No, it's nothing else matters doing ding thing thing. Maybe they're gonna do my song? Then really, what's this? Nothing else matters? Now what do they have? That's it? Trust me, that's what everyone learned because you don't have to hit anything with your left hand on this the fret hand until right here do they have anything called? And they unforgiven? The one I know is boom, countdown down, boom. Oh that's your first one. Yeah, that's that's unforgiven, I think, and they all the son forgive it. Don't see unforgiven? That's all right? Oh boy? Uh okay, next up, you'll know this one. Go ahead, oh Aerosmith and dream on, dream on eminem later we did it. Man, You listen to this and didn't even sound anything like Steve what's his name, Steve? You mean, what's his name? Steven Tyler? It sounds nothing like jobs and usu uh. Next up, yeah, come on, it's just the Oregan dude. Don't this is so good? Don't okay? Go ahead? Next one? Oh money some of these are really really cool, good long lasting songs. The Bones, You're gonna make me go home and listen to classic rock all day today. Well, we're on the golf course ntil we put on I know always we're like, we're usually go like four holes and we're like, dude, you know what's missing? And then we put it on. Gets sad because all of a sudden, food Fighters pops up, true smash mouth off a class of rock that's new. Alright, name this one weewoo Matt, Yeah, well the name of the song. No, okay, Rihanna, next up. I don't hear the Reaper. I need more cow uh dun not dire straight. Oh my gosh, who is this? Oh my gosh, who is this? There's the color in their names. The first word is a color blue oyster colt. Yes, I got there, all right. Two more most recognized seventies songs by a few notes. Go ahead, Hotel, California. Yeah, the Eagles. Great, that's the guitar on a dog. That's a highway cool in in the heir. Uh. Last one, Eddie on for the win, digod do good, did good Ding Ding Barracuda five part Yeah, Proud of myself on that. You guys have talking about music on Sore Losers, and I mean I tried to, but they don't know anything about music. It's it's a it's a little uh disheartening because like, man, I love music. Sometimes we say something in the podcast where I'm like that calls for this song and then Ray's just like I don't know that song. It's like, okay, forget it, So Losers you can listen to it. Yeah, so loses three days week. We talked about sports, but we also talk about just our lives or three dudes. It's it's our chance to be bros. And I love it. There you have it. Thank you Eddie for joining me for the Stadman. Thank you talking about the seventies, which most of our listeners like, what the F is this? All right? Thank you, Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. We're down here in Nashville, Tennessee with the legendary Bones with the silly II. It's just George Thorogood with Mike and uh hut and uh my main man, I bet you had to do so many of those at radio stations, like hey, this is George Saragod and you're listening to rock one oh six. You know we call we cut a song um by Johnny Otis Williem a hand jove And I made the mistake when I recorded it. He said, the baby got famous in his crib, you see. And I went doing a hand job on MTV. Now MTV was real big then, right, so I thought that'd be a clever thing to do. E M I gets me down to l A, gets me in the studio like here, right, And they had that song and he wants me to dub in this when he said doing a hand job on KLOS doing a handso d E T W D on W M A S And it was about a hundred and fifty And I said, never want to hear that song. I'm blackfired on And I did it? Did it? Yeah, I did. It would be all day to do it, but I did it. Well. I feel lucky that you hear because you don't live in Nashville of Boston. Where do you lived? Now? West Coast? Okay? Good for Hank, good for you. Weather is better, huh yeah something. Most of the time ish every place has got his Upston down. Yeah. Well so, I I mean I played the opery probably fifteen times at this point, but I also host and produced the Opery TV show, and we were kind of going through guests and they said, hey, George Thorowgod is gonna make his Opery debut. And I was like, I am literally the biggest George thoraw Good fan because and I was what I was doing was actually telling us that hey, you know like and that they did know in the end, but I was like, you know, the Hank Senior, you know, he took uh, you have roots and actually knowing old school country music because you kind of converted some of that to rock. And so I think that's that's important for country music fans to know, is that you actually have a respect for the old traditional country music. Well, I guess so I I never looked at Hank Williams is a country music at all, because this was about nineteen sixty nine or something when I first discovered Hank Williams. So I knew this song, Um, I'm So lone So I could Cry by b. J. Thomas. He did a like a rhythm and blues version of you may have heard it came out in sixty six. So when I got his music at the same time, right almost the same time, within a month or a couple of weeks, I can't remember, but I was turned onto Robert Johnson and I was listening to Hank Williams one day, Robert Johnson next. I couldn't figure out which artist was greater, which one was better, and I said, it's a draw, there's, there's, there's. But in that time, there, of course, there was there was no category called country music. It just was you know. I heard Ring of Fire on the radio, a M radio in like nineteen two or whatever. So I started listening to this guy, Hank Williams, and started getting all his stuff, doing some back background on him, and I never really thought of it, like, I just thought it was very groovy song is a very ingenious guy who wrote these fantastic tunes. And then later I guess when you got a categorize thing, I said, well, what is blues? This is the R and B charts, just the blues charts. Man. I heard Ray Charles on the radio and after that they played a Marty Robins song. That's how far back I go. So I never knew that distinction. I just thought because I was just a little kid, you know, I thought, well, let's just groovy songs. So yeah, I have respect for that, but um, I've always tried to um stay away from classifying things like me, how can you classify dialing? How do you classify you? I know you're staying away from it, but it's like, you know, blues and rock. And then I also just looked. I was like, because again I could go through your catalog of songs. And also, let me say this, every time somebody has to pick a song for me to enter a room, too, it's you every time. Every time I go into and they're like, let's hey, we're gonna do something new no one's ever done as soon as Bobby balks. We're gonna play bad to the Bone every single time. So we had so every time a little bit, I curse your name, even though I love the song, but I'm like, dang, that bad to the bone. They play it every time. Well to classify me, I just make it easy. I'm an international sex symbol. Oh okay, I don't know what chart that. I don't know how to get on that chart. Let me play a little clip about I don't. I don't really know myself, you know, right, I never really uh you know, when we got started, they they slotted us into blues for lack of other areas, but blues never embraced us. To the beginning of it was uh, it was called underground FM music and in seventy seventy eight and seventy nine, and then that later got replaced by classic rock. So you know, we just played. We didn't think. I said, well, well category to put Tom Waits in, you know, you know, he's one of a kind type of artists, and I just said, well, I'm not blues, buddy, guys blues, I'm just George with you know, a lot of funny songs and fast beat and maybe we'll catch on, you know. So I'm like you, my comedy is my main thing. That's my main gig, you know. But you also, you know, crossed over and we're basically because of how popular you were, even though you never changed your style. You were a pop artist. Well pop means popular, right, That's my point exactly. It doesn't mean you were sonically changing anything. Michael Jackson's a king of pop. But I know what you're saying. Whatever popular is pop. It doesn't matter what what degree level it is. You know. That's if you're popular fifteen people or fifteen thousand. You know you're still, like you said, you're popular with somebody. You know, my favorite, well, one of my favorites, because I was actually I think I was maybe eleven years old when Get a Hack and Get a Real, Like I was actually like listening to music and choosing my own music at that point. Like that to me, I actually like remember and I felt when it come out that was early nineties, yeah and so, and I remember hearing that on the pop station what do you Want from Me? And then it went right over and and almost it went from me hearing you on the pop station, but I would also hear some of the older stuff on the assic rock station, and I was kind of like, my mind's blown right now, I'm here in the same guy in the pop station and the same guy in the classic rock station. I was going to uh to the gym one day and I heard who do You Love? On KLOS, which is classic rock station, So I went into what I did, and then he came back and I switched the to um um K one oh one, which is oldies, and he played who do you Love? Well? What is it? Is? A class sticker? An oldly what which is it? You know, I want to look at my playlist here, so I mean I can sing all these back to you probably don't want that, but let me start with bad at the Bone, which everybody this has become, uh a cultural song from the eighties. I feel like, and when I think of watching Mary with Children, which I watched all the time. Every time al Bundy did something that was cool, this song came on, which meant you got paid al al Bundy was married with children. Yeah. Actually the song they used, I think was born to be bad. When he did that motorcycle thing with different different Yes, they did that song too, that happened, which made me feel because Lee Marvin's on my personal guys, you know, so that was pretty clever. One bourbon, one Scotch, one beer was and I don't even drink, still don't drink, but still jam of a song. I'll hear that on classic rock radio alright. One ginger Ale, one hot chocolate, one glass of water. I mean Charlie Temple probably. Yeah. The the thing is really um like a like when people would get to me and say I drink alone, all I said, no, I could have said I watched TV alone. I read alone. Because of the time when you're in in your life, you are alone. Of all the things you do. You go to the bathroom alone, you go to the store alone. So one bourbon, one Scotch, one beer, we just meant one of something. The thing was the guy got kicked out of his house. He couldn't pay the rent, which really happened to us in Boston in seventy four. So somebody bought the building and doubled up the the price for staying there doubled it. We couldn't afford it, so we're out. And that's that's when that thing started doing mirrors. So Jeff and I are actually living it with the house frint thing there. So that's really the just just of the song when you you talk about, which is a different song. I drink alone, but when I do an impression of you, which you probably want to hear, I blow my voice out almost. I drink alone. Yeah, but nobody. But how do you keep that? Is that just naturally in your voice or you gotta push that a bit? Yeah? You do. But um, when I when I was my voice changed earlier than most guys do. Most kids, their boys change their voice changes when they're like fourteen fifteen, he gets lower. Mine changed when I was about in the fourth grade and my voice dropped down. So that was, um, something that was kind of natural to me. So when I heard singers like halling Wolf, um, Tom waits and I said, Tom just kinda he growls the lyrics, and I said, hm hmm. You don't have to have a great voice. What you have to have as a distinctive voice and above all a good song that's number one. So yeah, part of that was natural, and as part of it was, I'm a helling Wolf fan. I did a lot of time studying his voice. So, um, you know, we'd go to parties and people would take me along and say, we don't like anybody here, let's clear the house. George do Hackling Wolf. I was looking at how rigorous you used to tour for a while, like you what you were a hustler, and I was looking at over the years. But if I'm gonna dial in on something that I want people to note was when you did fifty States and fifty days, but you also did d C. So basically it was fifty one in fifty days, but that Hawaii to Alaska track because that's what you did. If I'm not mistaken here. You did a show in Hawaii, you flew the next day and did Alaska. How know, how was that a close call to just get there to do that show much less be exhausted. Not really. Our booking agents, Uh spent a lot of time on an advance. It does something he didn't. Didn't do it a weekended me. It took months and months of planning that thing and setting it up just right. So um yeah, we um. We wanted to do um it didn't work out there. We wanted to do Delaware first, that's from because the first state, and we wanted to Hawaii last because it was the fiftieth state. But routing it didn't work that way, and said, that's a nice idea, George would forget it when you think about people from Delaware because the Destroyers were originally the Delaware Destroyers, if I'm not mistaken, No, they weren't. They weren't the Delaware Destroyer. Know. What happened was we were the Destroyers and we uh we played at a wedding reception and a friend of mine who I went to high school with was there and he was very excited about our band. And every time we we we took a break and people were, you know, going to get a champagne or he kept going to the might and going the Delaware Destroyers will be right back soon, Delawa. And so he kind of said that, and I just kind of stuck, you know, I said, you know, I was one time we did after that, we were doing a gig in uh out in Boston in the park and and somebody said, what, who Who's playing that? He said, I don't know, some band called George Washington and the Delaware River. How about of Trouble my name? I said, look, zz Top, that's a great name, you know, sting, great name, you know, just simplify this thing. I mean, Adam And I've been going around about that for years, you know. I said, this is too much stuff, you know, too much stuff to say, but it gets your attention anyway when you're doing that tour hitting and it could be any year. Actually it doesn't have to be the fifty and fifty. But do you ever just forget where you are? You go, all right, Minnesota, what's happening? It's like, hey, George, we're actually in Kansas. Happened to me once and once there's one time too many, and I went up to the mike and said, it's great to be here in in Greenville, North Carolina, and you're in Greensboro, South Carolinas. I get all those green the Columbus is, the Columbias, and the Greensboro's and a Green. I get them all mixed up. And I after I said that, I was like, that's great. It's gonna be a long night. And that's the only time you ever did that. Yeah, I never did it again. That's a pretty good record years plan shows one time, right. I learned my lesson so plan in clubs early on. I got to assume that the sound just isn't great, isn't just a bunch of microphones packed up to a speaker. We worked at making our sound great. Bones. We worked real hard at that. We'd go. We were one of the few bands that would go early. We could travel with our own p A and uh they were there were it was good. It was a short p A system and it was a good one. And we had the cabins were about this big, and we located them strategically in the club, like one of them at the end of the bar and one sitting here, and one sitting over here, and we turned each of them to a certain volume, like the one up here would be a little louder and something. And we miked my amp at a small amp. So we worked very hard at that. Only one place we played did did have a p A system, and it was kind of hard to mess up our sounds. Three guys, one vocal if you call it that, okay, so um no, it wasn't uh, you know, all all clubs or not, but our sound. Then we were just a small trio, so we were ideal for those small places, so it fit right in. But we were very hard at that to make sure. I mean, you know, we didn't have a record. We weren't doing top forty, you know. I you know, I I don't. I don't look like Lauren Batty. I mean, we gotta be great or you know, you gotta or to leave, you know. So we worked at every every angle we could to get the gig and hold onto the gig. When did you start noticing more people coming to shows? And why? Were You're just like wow, like we're kind of catching on here. This is crazy to go to a place in America I've never been and see people come and be fans like what had happened in your career? Where that was it? A little bit radio play? Was it? Well? That helped? I mean that's what you need. You need to get on the radio. I mean you either in FM radio in that time it was there were it was called album oriented radio. It was an album they played. But we had a tune that I really was hammering my head against the wall with our record label at the time and saying that you know, there are records sat there for a long time, sitting on the shelf, like something like eighteen months, and man, you did not want to know me in those days. And I was saying, you've got to get this record at you gotta bourbon, Scotch and beer is a hit. I said, what am I gonna do with the Almond Brothers cut it? What am I gonna do with Jay Giles cuts it? We're not gonna do it. Tom Waits cuts it. I know it's I see people. I used to play it solo without a band, and people jumped for it, and they said something funny. I said, well, what about somebody else records? They said, we'll just record another song? What songs like that? Tonight? And still on the radio today. So you know, you know, I said, well, it's not me. Those songs made me famous. I didn't make the songs famous. You see what I'm saying. I mean, I look at people and you'll go you go up to them and say hi, I'm George, and I go yeah, and I go Badu of the Bone. They go, oh yeah. See so most people are like that. But to be fair, you wrote back to the Bone. To be fair. You're a sweetheart. To be fair, Okay, I mean so, I mean you are that That's different than a song that if you you covered it wonderfully. That's different to an extent. Yeah, it's very uh, very close to I I when we first put that thing together, um, we wanted to give it to Muddy Waters and Muddy Waters Management. It was not keen on that idea at all. Then I had an idea to give it to Bau Diddley and he had didn't have a record label at the time, and we were nobody knew about the song. This is all in my mind to do this before when we got the song done and we were down in New Orleans. Um, we're on a show that was stop number forty four on the tour. Are you just saying that number? Do you really remember that? I do remember Henry Aaron's number four, of course us. And the night before we played in a place in Arkansas that seated a hundred and twenty five people. The next night we played in place seated eighty thousand people. You're going one of the other, the juxtaposition as wild to play for a hundred and eighty thousand exactly, And then we had to then we had to go on after the Neville Brothers in New Orleans and go on before the Rolling Stones. And I had about a hundred and three degree temperature. But getting back to Bed of the Bone, I was not on top of my game. And as I'm getting a golf cart going up to the stage, and a man comes up to me and he says, George, I hear you're writing songs. And I went, who have you been talking to? HS? Never mind? And I go, well, I'm doing that, and he said, well, the mean we're gonna be like Bone. You're gonna do all right? And I said do you mean Bad of the Bone? And he goes yeah, And I go, how do you know about that? And he goes, it's my job to know about it. Hi, I'm David Geffen. Oh come on, no, I'm not come on. Yeah. We had only done it, done it in like rehearsals and sound checks. We never really got there yet, got it in a student you but somehow he picked up on it. You know, I said, well, I can't go wrong there. The rise of Bad to the Bone as it was happening organically, did it feel like a rocket ship or was it once it actually was pressed and sent out happened fast or happened slow slow? Didn't didn't really click right away. It was just it was another song in the set. They wanted to hear Bourbon, Scotch and beer, and that's what they wanted to hear, and moving on over. But that one was in the show and people are like, yeah, okay. But when rock classic radio got ahold of it boom, that's when it took off. It was. It was pretty shocking actually to be part of that, because we were lucky to Bad of the Bone got in there on the pretty much the infancy of classic rock. And you know, the other tunes that were selecting were things like Rocking Me Baby, Steve Miller, Jumping Jack, Flash the Stone, stairway to Heaven. So I was in company that I never dreamed I would even be close to anything like this. I'll give you an example. I was again. I was out doing something. I think I went to the gym or something. I came home and I turned on classic rock and they were playing a song Bourbon's Gutch and Beer, and I said, okay, I'm listening, you know, listen, I said, I'm just gonna keep it on just to hear what the DJ says, you know, sitting in my garage and they can't want to go Well, that was a black a block of thorough good Hendricks and Clapton. What. I ran into the house and immediately started practicing my guitar. I said, are you kidding me? Wait a minute, toward you better start taking your job a little more serious, because somebody else's just talking with you and talking about how radio started playing you. You. You feel like a big transfer in your career was because of classic rock picking you up and and in that audience hearing it. Am I hearing that? Right? Was that again? Like? Did classic rock radio define how people listen to new you more than anything else? Um? It was? It was like a step by step a procedure. We got into like I say, FM a morion, and then we got in on the bottom of MTV, and then just as rock Classic radio started, we got in on that. So we were at the right place at the right time, with the right song. And then if things went from there to like the Native American Casinos which we started working, which was opening up, then um and we had the right material to fit into those things. That that was. That wasn't planned because I didn't know there was gonna be Rock Classic radio. I didn't know it was gonna be MTV or Native American Casinos hiring us. It just it just happened that way. So we were lucky to have the material that that fit into uh to their format anyway, and classic rock radio, nobody wants to say, what where do they play on it? Oldies? Nobody was here oldies. Classic rock sounds better than oldies. You know, you go up and see you know, if you go up to the thing and you see somebody like, uh, oh, I don't know Don Rickles, you don't say he's an oldies. You know, he's a classic. He's a you know, a classic performer. And I dug that, you know, called I hope something. They don't call it old classic rockod let's put them all together. Yeah, it's still the same music. Okay. See, here's the thing I've learned about you today. We've only been known each other a brief time. You don't give yourself an up credit at anything. You're one of the greatest. And first of all, you said the songs that you found made to you. You said at the right place, right, I haven't heard you one time? Go, Yeah, it's pretty cool. I got pretty good. People love me? They do? Yeah, not right, any of them females. You tell me, Well, I I've been too busy to really check that kind of thing out bones. You know, I'm like, uh, you know, I'm laying out sound, I'm doing stuff. Adam's got me working, Hut's got me working. I don't really have time to sit back. Oh they love me, you know. I like after the show's over and you know, give me, give me on the bus. I gotta go. How about the How about the operation? Why why the grand ol Opry? Why not? They said for me? They did. Yeah, see that's what we do with this act. Only go we were sent for then they could get me at at me. When Thirdgod shows up, they go, this guy's too loud and too obnoxious, And wait a minute, you sent for me, you send for Thirdgod? You get his habits. What are you gonna play at the opera Saturday? You know what? What songs? Because again you have so many and are you gonna like, how do you decide what you're gonna play? What venue? Because you don't get thirty minutes the opera? You know, you get a few songs. Do you know what you're gonna play? And I was thinking about a boy named Sue. You're cheating heart? Uh you know El Paso? I don't. I don't think you're gonna do Marty Robbins, Johnny Cash. We're gonna do with Johnny Cash? You are? You have to? Yeah, you gotta do that. And no, we'll do the Hack Williams thing, moving on Over and a solo piece on it acoustic slide guitar. I would venture to say that anyone fifty to thirty, and I'm in that age group knows you more for Moving On Over because you popularize it to a level that wasn't then because they didn't have the they didn't have the ability to get it all the places that it could once you did, and you also did it so distinctly right, I would say more people my age, no, move it on over from you and have to be taught. It was Hank senr. So I'm just saying, take credit for it and act like you wrote it, and then everybody believe it and be like, yeah, well whatever you know were it keeps us working, you know, I mean our I will tell you this and this, this is this is how the Destroyers operate. Um. When we go into and sit down and learn a song, or we go into the studio or whatever, whether we write it or whatever our m O as you call it or whatever, we always listen listen to. Is this a song? Our fans will like? Is this a song they'll go for. It's like somebody having a restaurant and you have a menu and you want to keep the customers coming, so you keep some of the same things on it, and you can put otherms on. And said, we don't really to an extent. We record to our taste, but we we um cord or pick material that we know. I mean, we we knew I drink alone. We were playing it not very good, and we went into a guest set and in a club and say when we play we played it. We're just learning the song and we weren't even halfway through it. In the whole audience was singing it already, so we knew we had tapped into something that they wanted to hear. And that that's the way we operate, you know. We can say, oh yeah, I kind of like that song. It's it's not about whether we like it, you know, it's gotta be you know, the people buy the records if they like it. That's that's what we shoot for, you know. And if I could, you know, if I could write Bridge over Troubled Water, I would have done it. But this is this is the best I can do. Bones. Are you still a Mets fan? Oh? Yeah, I'm a Cups fan and I was kind of my whole life before they were good, So I know what it's like to have just a sucky team and you love them more the longer they suck, and when they win, you don't have to jump up and be like, hey, look at me, because you just feel that pride inside of you. And I know you've been I met Were you sad when SHA Stadium went down? No? This aggress you know, it's um. See, I know I have some people that were Yankee fans and they're disappointed every year because they go. The Yankees are expected to win, the Mets are expected to lose. So if they finished five, I've had a good year. Do you miss playing ball? No? None as good as you were, as good as hey. Listen, you played a high Listen. I played in high school, played legion ball. I was okay. I wasn't as good as you were. Who have you been talking to? I see, I read, I look, I hear stories like I said. It's my job to know. Oh, thank you? I uh, I was I look good in a uniform. Let's put it again, humble, humble, humble. As you're talking about baseball here, not playing slide guitar. Yeah, it's a very hard game to play. It's you know, are's many many aspects of the game, running, throwing, stealing, making double plays, things like that. It's, um, it's not easy. That's why softball was created, you know, so cats like me can't cut it with baseball. We play softball. It stopt all the credits. So old guys like us get hurt again later and remember why we didn't play baseball. Every time I play something, I get hurt. Now, yeah, basketball in the bag, I gotta hurt calf. Well, that's the way it's gotta her shoulder. Well, if you if if you if you know Aaron rarely got hurt. He uh, he had a long career and he never had any injuries. And they said, Hank, you've done really well over twenty three years and you're playing big league ball and you know you've sidestepped injuries. And he said, if you know how to play, you don't get injured. I guess I've never known how to play that. How's the how's the guitar playing going? Um? I was still getting hired. Yeah, yeah, we're still you know, the the bat line is still hot. You know, we're we're just talking about that coming in today and we got some things going on. So obviously some promoters somewhere in places in the world have not forgotten about it. So a lot of these things are rescheduled, you understand, because of Pan Pan Demi. There was we rescheduled certain things and then at the last minute we had to pull out again because the pandemic was not solved yet. So we've been booked for the last beginning to the last year and a half ago. We just keep moving them up each year. So I want the better, get the stick to this thing together because I'm not getting any younger. Listen, there are only a few people that I would pay money to go to a show too, because I don't have to anymore, right I mostly I can just call somebody and be like, hey, look, but I will pay. If you were playing in town, I would pay money and I would go. I mean that. That's that's the respect that I have for you. Thank you. I'm the same way I if someone says, well, let's go see somebody, I go. I gotta get in the car. I gotta go drive all the way there, go to the parking, go get to seas, go through this Hut's gotta make all these arrangements and do these things to go see it. I go, well, who are you gonna say? I go McCartney, Tom Jones, the Stones, Neil Young Dylan, and don't don't don't waste my time on any small fry because it's expensive and it's tough to get to these things. You know, and as you get older, it gets it gets a little harder. Just to get out of the bed. But if you say I'm getting get out of the bed and tonight I'm going to see Paul McCartney, that's a little different. Well, I'm gonna recommend anybody listening if whenever you get back on the road, whenever any of my friends get back on the road, whenever you get back on the road, that if you're in town, to go watch and take in a show and take in some rock history, not just you, but also the music that you bring with you from before you. I think that's very important because obviously you had your own songs, you wrote your own songs, but you paid homage to the songs that got you here as well. And I think that is so important for people to know. And I will come and watch. I'm gonna end with this question for you. When in your career you were you playing, or you're on a show or something and you look around and you go, I cannot believe I've made it this far, Like I'm looking around me right now. Maybe it's maybe it's a TV show, famous people, Maybe it's a crowd. When was that moment where you went, holy crap, I can't believe this guy from Delaware, here I am every night, come on, come on, you can bet on that. It was like opening for the Stones. Well, it was kind of like uh, you know, um, your birthday, the first day off of school, summer vacation, Hanukkah, Christmas all rolled into one. It didn't every but every night like night. You weren't like ho hum, time do another show? Excuse me? Like when you're opening for them a few times? Are you ever like it's just another show? Not just another show? Yeah? Yeah, like people in the World series saying, oh it's just another game super Bowl, Yeah, another game. Fair enough. Well, let me encourage you guys to check out the opera on Saturday night because Georgi will be playing um when he's touring. Go see him, and also check out Live in Boston the complete concert. Like that's where it is, you live, That's where it is. That's what we do from my ears too, well my mouth to God's Ears, that's where it is. Well, that's well, that's kind of where we made our mark, you know, made our mark with things um and when we did those things with the Stones, remember, um, you a very limited time to play, and we didn't have bad to the bone out yet and Bill Graham kept hiring Is on a daily basis, like a rookie who gets into the lineup and does good. And Study hired him the next day. And it wasn't so much that. I mean, they're all Rolling Stones fans and Jay Giles fans. And what Graham was trying to get me said, yeah, but George, you grab the crowd's attention and you keep it. That's important, more important right now than having a noticeable song. These are eighty thousand people and uh and now he put that into my head. You know, I said, so with the right material, we could probably sustain this as long as possible. And that's when we started looking into saying, get a couple other tunes in there, George. You know, well, I'm glad you did. Thank you, Yes, there he is. Thank you for your time. It's rare I get to talk with the legend likewise. No not no, not like place. George thorough good, everybody, all right, nice job, all right. And with Jake Brennan from disgrace Land, which is one of my favorite podcasts and is you know, just so good every week. And that's tough, as you know, in the podcast space when you're you're putting out a lot of content you're hoping you hit most of the times. But I guess disgrace line hits for me because I love music and also love because I know a lot of artists now and they're not always what they're cracked up to be publicly. Some are better, to be honest, There are those even in country music, like a Keith Urban better than he could even be on a microphone, or a Lionel Richie who work with an American idol the Greatest Guy. However, and I won't mention them now that I don't want to get sued. They're still alive. There are some real turds out there too, And so whenever you know, I was, I've listened to probably almost every episode, but I went and I started looking at kind of the genesis of why you created the show. And I want to read you this and tell me if it's still true, because you wrote rock stars are more like feral, narcissistic animals and functioning members of society, and that's what makes them so entertaining. Yeah, I still believe that after doing all this you still feel yeah, yeah, But I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. You know. I think it's kind of like what makes rock stars, like I said, so interesting and a lot of times, as you know, musicians artists in general, but musicians they come from these backgrounds that are incredibly challenging, and that leads directly to the types of people they are, and that leads to the type of music and art that they create. So they go hand in hand. And I think that for people like us who are sort of uh involved in the entertainment industry to some respect, uh, this stuff isn't surprising to us, but for people outside of music, it's really shocking. I often say it takes a really messed up person to make really messed up art, which we like, But it takes the same kind of person that's making that messed up art. Is the same person's messed up also in like human activities exactly, and that's what makes it so relatable, you know what I mean. And there's degrees of being messed up, and there's you know, a lot of people. And I launched to the show thought it was going to be some sort of like gut you a type of thing where I'm I'm like coming after these artists and I'm not I'm just telling these stories that are out there, and I don't want it to get lost that I have a lot of empathy for not only the victims, but for the artists themselves in some cases, who are also victims. They're all incredibly different and complex, and there's tremendous music at the center of all this, and we can't lose sight of that. I'm gonna ask you some difficult, open ended questions because you've done so much, and I'm just gonna throw some things out you and if you don't have an answer immediately, we can come back around to it. But you've done all of these these artists, some I've never heard of, but I have now learned a lot about some Obviously I thought I knew a lot about until then. But which one of everyone you've covered, did you go? There's so much worse of a person than I would have ever imagined after diving into it. Rick James. Rick James and a real criminal minded dude even before he became a musician. And you know, he was like running drugs for the Colombian cartel. He was just he was just a bad dude in a lot of ways. But you know, at his core, he just wanted to make great music and entertain people as well, so that those things go hand in him. And it's a real dichotomy. And it's very interesting to hear the episode on Julie Lewis, which he's from near where I'm from, so I had heard the stories. But I mean, he married his thirteen year old cousin, Yeah, you would expect to not get worse than that. But of course his otherwise a later wife, she met a demise very early, and that nickname the killer maybe may have run true in different ways. But what holds on longest even after because again not a good dude and was still you know, it was probably really bruised by Elvis blowing up at the same when he was in his mind and a lot of other people's mind that guy. But then it is Elvis and you know him, and he drove his car over into Elvis's fit and it was a whole thing. But still the cousin thing lasts longer in people's minds than that the other antics that happened later on, which were worse. It's such a shocking thing. And when it happened to him, when when he married his cousin and the story broke. He was neck and neck with Elvis. He was huge. He was a huge star, much bigger than we knew him as him as because we're younger and Elvis goes often to the army, so that the lane is kind of cleared for Jerry Lee Lewis to really break through and kind of leave Elvis behind. But then that story blows up and it doesn't happen. So I think it was getting away with murder Jerry Lewis getting away with the murder the title of that episode or something like something that that effect. Do you think he for sure? Do you think he got away with murder? I think, um, there's enough evidence to I'm gonna be careful with my words. I said, do you do you do you think there is a reason for there to be a lot of suspicion. I'm not a journalist, I'm not an investigator at all, but I think in the public record there's enough information out there that people can very easily come to the conclusion that, uh, like I said, the nickname the Killer maybe a little more realistic than than just a fun nickname. He came back and country music and had a rather robust country career, after he was we'll call it canceled, you know, their version of canceled. After he was canceled for the cousin, he came out and country music and had a pretty good career. Yeah, and a lot of ways. I mean he not only it wasn't like a niche career either. I mean he he was a household name. Again, he was huge. I mean there was an NBC special devoted strictly for him that you know, but his comeback, um, so yeah, a massive household name also then Bobby. I mean, you know, like there was no Internet, it was easier to kind of like leave things in the past. It was easier to get about things and move on. How many second acts did we see now? We still see them even with cancel culture, So it was, um, it was a lot easier I think for Jerry Lewis to bounce back and reinvent himself. Another episode that I really enjoyed was the Johnny Paycheck episode. Oh yeah, yeah, rough, dude, rough, very hardcore. I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago. You know, So the name Johnny Paycheck comes up and a country music listener or a country music fan would be like, oh yeah, great, great singer, great songwriter, you know, hardcore guy outlaw, you know what I mean. Anyone else the name would come up and you'd be like, it wasn't a musician. You'd be like, that guy shot a dude in the head. That would be the claim to fame. But it's not. For some reason, you know. It's like when you're a musician, I guess shooting a guy in the head is not the craziest thing you can do. Would be known for his story, it's you know, a bar in Ohio. Is that where that happened. Yeah, he was going home to see his mom for Christmas, and he stopped off at a bar um and he was going to Hawaii, Ohio. I think it was in Ohio where he stopped off. And he goes into the bar and he's and he's drinking alone, and these two locals recognize him as being a local guy and they start they start to mess with him. They get it, they get like they basically like making fun of him, you know, for being the celebrity that he is, you know, big time and Boston we call it you think you better than us, like that type of thing, you know, And uh, he just got ticked off. He pulled his gun and one of the guy ran. One of the guy ran away, and he shot him before he get out the door, and the bullet grazed his head and the guy lived. But you know, it's pretty bad and Johnny ended up going to jail for it. You know. One of the sad parts, that really sad parts of that episode was at the end he kind of when he died broken pretty much alone. Yeah, yeah, which is is sad man. You know, a lot of times we envy these artists we think they had, these musicians especially, we think they have these very full, fulfilling lives. Um. But you know, fame and celebrity can be it can be super lonely. And I think for some of these guys who live way off the rails and way outside the guard rails of society. You know, there was no one there for Johnny at the end when he died, despite the pretty amazing massive funeral and party that they threw for him. Your background, if i'm if, I'm still you were in a band, are still in a band? Not? No, no longer in a band. I'll never be in a band again. So so, but you you have a music background, right, Yeah, yeah, I was. I've been in bands my whole life. I came up in the punk and hardcore scene in New England. UM played in bands. UM made a very modest living around the margins, and then started the podcast and this kind of became my life about three years ago. Are you doing well now? Because I see you everywhere it seems like, yeah, the podcast has been great. We've we've you know, we've we've grown this massive audience and it's led to a lot of opportunity. I was able to get a book deal and write a book and that's done very well. And now I'm producing podcasts with other producers as well as other ones that I host and executive produced. So it's kind of it's it's become this little career for me that I never expected to happen. I mean, you know, ten years ago, I didn't know what a podcast was, and now here we are. Are you telling people listening that they can support themselves and pay bills if they get a successful podcast? I am definitely telling yeah, yeah it is. It's not some very grateful man. Very you've moved over to just Amazon now. This Graceland is available exclusively on UM on Amazon Music and it's free. You can get it over there. Um, but we have other shows we're just rolling. Snow Magazine announced our new franchise today. It's called bad Lands, which is basically disgrace Land for everything but music. So season one is called Hollywood Land, so it is what it sounds like. It's all actors and actresses. This season two is sports Land that will be available widely everywhere you can get podcasts for free. I host a number of other shows as well, The twenty seven Club, which is available on I Heard Radio app everywhere. Podcasts are available saying with Dead and Gone, a show I teamed up with Payne Lindsay from Up and Vanish to do. So we have a lot going on. Disgrace Land as exclusive Amazon Music is growing rapidly in the podcast space. There's you can basically hear all of your favorite podcasts over there. That twenty seven Club series, how do you think there was actually something to it or just a wild coincidence? That wild coincidence, you know, but you know made a cool lane for me to create a podcast series. Season three actually launches tomorrow on Janis Joplin of The twenty seven Club. The Janis Joplin and I haven't heard that one, but I do know a lot about Jannis Choplin and that did you know it until she did? Yeah, that's crazy, that's nuts. I mean, she was a thing people knew of her, but not as she wasn't a song on the turn the radio one, you know, somewhere in Florida and also in Connecticut like that was after she died. Yeah, yeah, the first album didn't do so great. A lot of people didn't like that band, they didn't like Big Brother in the Holding Company. It was until it wasn't until the band who was on that that later record that came out after she died, that people really started to give her the credit that she deserved. I'm a big nineties fan, obviously because I was born in the eighties, so the nineties is what I consumed in my growing years, and so you know some of the stuff in the nineties. Tupac, you know, I know, there's a whole I listened to you talking about Tupac and Biggie. Any chance that Tupac lived past that shooting. No, I'm not even saying he's alive right now, but any chance he lived past the shooting, well, he lived for a couple of days before he died. But he no, no, no way, no way. I mean, I get why the why the ground has been softened for this conspiracy theory that he's still alive. I mean, he talked about his death. He certainly had reason enough to sort of fake his death. His life arguably could have been uh less complicated if he kind of like disappeared and one had a life somewhere else besides, you know, under the protection of Sugar Knight in the death row world that he was in. But no, there's there's no way he's living on an island and belieze or anything like that. I don't believe it. Him talking about his death is a bit like Andy Kaufman, where everyone wants to believe Andy Kaufman is still alive because he always said he'd full everybody by coming back, you know, ten thirty years after he died. You know that now that I would believe? Well, I well, but I don't. You don't believe any confidence alive, do you. I think any coffinment is Donald Trump. And I think this this whole, the whole last eight four years. I mean, wouldn't that be the greatest if he pulls off the wig, It's like got you would I believe anything in two thousand anything? If Biggie's music came out now, and I've said this for ten years, do you think it would still be new sounding? That's a really interesting question because nobody, nobody sounds like Biggie. Nobody sounds like Biggie. He did. He did that kind of like cool reverse peanut butter and chocolate thing where he took that that West Coast sound and put his East Coast thing on it. And I don't know, I mean, hip hop now just sounds so different that I have no idea what how it would be received right now? That's that's an interesting question. What about Juice World? Uh? What about you? Tell me about I don't know, tell me about the guy I don't know, I don't know, I don't know anything. I'm the wrong guy to ask I we need Are you going to cover a juice World? Because again, he just died. The the more modern artists are tricky for a bunch of reasons. Um, especially when people the story isn't entirely told yet. And like I said, I'm not a journalist. I'm I'm going after stories that are out there in the public eye, that are that are um safe so to speak, that can be told. Um. And a lot of times you get away for these stories to completely be finished. I just did an episode on Little Wayne. It's not out yet, but it was written and I had to rewrite it twice because the guy is still active and he's still out there, and there's still things happening to him. Um. So you know, possibly on Juice Oro, but it won't be for a minute. Didn't you do an episode on what's the guy's named to nacion x x tenas x x tantassion xxx Tantassion. It's a tough one. You did an episode on him? I did, Yeah, but a year and a half after he died. Um, Yeah, that that story was. I mean there's a brutal guy. I mean, he was a violent guy. He did a lot of nasty things. Um. And but that murder was vicious. And you know, there's a guy who was really young. And I think we see this a lot. You know, a lot of people can just they just cannot handle celebrity. They're not equipped to handle it. And whatever demons they have and whatever bad behavior they have inside him and whatever, you know, lack of humanity. They have the spotlight brings it out, and uh, that's definitely what happened to that dude. If Kurt Cobain would not have died, do you think Nirvana would have had the cultural impact lasting cultural impact that it has, Yes, you do, I do, Yeah, for sure. I mean they had it at the time. They were huge. I mean, and they broke that door open, They broke the damn for every for all the whole grunge thing that came after Nirvana came first, and it wasn't one of those things where Nirvana was just like, you know, they had the right single and they had the right music industry apparatus behind them. I mean, Kurt Kobean obviously was a true artist. And I don't know that Kurt Cobain would have would have hung around in Nirvana for that much longer. I mean, I know they would have done another record. They were talking to Scott Litt, the producer, about doing something their next record. Um, but I don't know if he would have stayed in that band, or that band would have hung on, or if Dave Grohl frankly would have wanted to sort of sit behind a drum kid for the next ten years of his life. Have you ever met Dad girl, I'm not, okay, and I've been in the room, but never actually had a conversation with him. He does such a good job at talking about Nirvana, but I gotta think somewhere he's like, am I ever going to stop talking about Nirvana? Because he has created one of the biggest American rock groups of all time, yet he's still will always be second fiddle to the band he played drums in. Yeah, I know, it's bizarre, man, and I'm sure he's I'm sure there are Quanta. There's quantifiable evidence out there that the Food Fighters are actually more successful than Nirvana in different ways. So of like Jacob Dylan has like a better selling album than Bob Dylan does, so just shocking. But I think Dave Grohl figured out a long time ago how to play the game so that it's not really playing him and it's all this like magical defense mechanism that he has. But I'm sure he at the end of the day, he sits back and he's like, God, damn it, right he does. He handles it so gracefully. He answers the questions and then gets onto himself, and you know, everybody wants to ask him about it. The longer you're away from it, when you go Cobaine died, the longer went away from it. Like a cooler part of history. It is that the drummer is sitting next to you, even though again in the past thirty forty years on the Mount rushmore American rock groups food Fighters. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy and they're still still incredibly relevant today, which is not an easy thing to do. I was in a record store down in Florida last week and that they're big display was the food Fighter's new record Nice that just came out, and they're playing their headlining Bondaru. Right. Yeah, there are crazy If TMZ or a thing back in the fifties or sixties, right like, who wouldn't have lasted? I don't know, that's a really interesting question. The thing the thing we don't you know, when we look back, we always kind of measured against today's standards, and one of the things we forget is that the music industry and society were wildly different back then. It was so much looser, you know, the music industry was like I mean, you think about from the record executive's perspective, they're doing everything they can to try and wrangle these you know, narcissistic feral animals to keep creating music so that they can keep bringing in the cash, but so that I don't want to say they were encouraging this. In some cases they were, but there it was free reign and the industry is being built up at the same time, like there wasn't this existing apparatus like there is now. So I mean, there was so much going on. I think it was way more depraved than we can even begin to think. You know, the stories we hear, I think are the tip of the iceberg, and more than the fifties and sixties, seventies and eighties and when the Van Halens and still the crazy just nuts. Even the stories they share now in their books and their interviews probably are just the tip of the iceberg and what really happened, because they know if they shared at all, they probably canceled now with even sharing their history exactly. I mean, I've heard things from people that's you know, not not corroborated at second hand, and it's it's so far off the mark and and now I mean outside the outside the bounds, so far outside the bounds of of society and now and now that I'm I'm doing this series Hollywood Land. We're looking at uh stories on actors and actresses in some cases that go back to the nineteen thirties. And the further back you go, the bigger the stories become, the more crazy they become, because time has has gone on and these stories are are able to be more easily shared. And I think we'll get that the further we get away from those pioneering days of rock and roll as well. Of all the country artists that you've researched, who did you feel was at least like what they portrayed on stage or publicly least like well, you know, it's this is a boring answer, but it's it's a good one to me, and it's an honest one. I think Johnny Cash, because he was he went through so much during his career, you know, in the in the fifties and sixties, before he settled down with June Carter. He's just a He's a he's a walking disaster. He's a time bomb. You know. He's caught smuggling drugs across the border. He's caught for burning down a protected far forest on government property. All these things happened to the guy. Um, But at the same time he goes on and he becomes this real champion for the underdog and this this empathetic spirit, and you know, I think he's kind of the opposite of the question you post. He was on stage, who he was off stage? And all those country guys, I mean, Johnny Paycheck was the same way. Uh, Graham Parsons the same same exact way, but in a different way because he was, you know, a little more soft. But yeah, the country guys kind of live it a little more authentically. I think the Chicks formerly known as the Dixie Chicks still, oddly in my opinion, aren't forgiven by a lot of the public, that is in the country music world, which is weird because they're talking about the Judge Bush thing. Yes and and yes, so there they haven't been forgiven for that. I don't want that. Two thousand Yeah, around that time, and I was talking about this on the air because the people that's screaming let's cancel, cancel culture are the ones still holding it against the Dixie Chicks for well they did. There wasn't a crime, wasn't morally wrong. They just had an opinion at a time where that opinion was a bit sensitive. What is your take on why people can't get over that. I don't understand that at all. I mean maybe people just want to I just want something to complain about. I mean, people's opinions in real life, real people's opinions, especially on politics, change all the time. You know, people don't wear the same team colors their entire lives. And who knows if they even feel that way now. I'm sure they don't. I'm sure they've they've come up. I mean, I don't know if they defended themselves. I don't know much about the Dixie Chicks. But you know, I think as Americans and fellow humans, we could all deal with a little more empathy and humility and this this country be a much better place. I listened to your podcasts and you can tell you spent a lot of time writing it recording it. But what what goes into this? Like you sit down blank screen and go all right, we're gonna go no no, no, no no, it's um it's I do a week of research at a minimum, and then I write for I write an episode in a week, and you know, now we've got I've got ten guys and ten people working for me at once where we're constantly the music is being worked on. It's it's a real process. But my process is right for a week and you know, I I record it and then it goes uh, you know, I I quote unquote score it. You know, I'm not a composer, but I indicate where and what kinds of music I wanted and where I want it to be. Goes off, the musicians put it together and uh, it gets mixed, and then it comes out and it's something that is you know, it's a it's a big production cycle that is constantly in motion. But what's the production cycle you know, back when you started episode one versus now where there's I mean, you've got a real beast on your hands here that you've got to maintain when you started it by yourself and you're you know, I can't play the song right now, I'm just gonna hit it. I imagine you're doing most of that by yourself at the very beginning. Yeah, I did everything by myself in the beginning, and the first episode took six months to put together. Yeah, why six months? Um, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't have a process. There's a lot of trial and error. I had to figure it out, you know. I had to go through like three different versions of what I thought the music was going to be. UM. Ultimately, ultimately, everything I tried doing collaboratively with people, I ultimately ended up being like, this is working. I'm doing it myself. And that's the opposite of how I've done everything in my life. I've been. I've been a very collaborative creative person my whole life, from being in bands, even though I was the leader of those bands or the singer or songwriter. UM. But you know, when it came to this, I don't know. I think instinctively and deep down I was getting older and I knew this is probably like the last thing I was going to try and do before I had to get like a quote unquote real job, and UM, relying on people didn't seem like a good option. So I just started to just break things off and do it all myself, all the research, all the writing, all the music, all the production. Uh. Pretty early on in that first year or later on in that first year, I brought in a engineer who's still with me. This guy Sean ka Halan. He's worked on every single episode to kind of do some of the nitty gritty work, cleaning, vocal editing files, all that stuff that takes hours that you know, if you're doing that, you're not researching and writing. And he was the first one I brought on, and it was just he and I for about a year. Then I Heart came into the picture. We uh we we started working with I Heart. I brought a couple more folks on to help with music, to help with mixing, and you know, now I've got a team of I think we're at We're almost will be at twelve people by the end of this year, of writers, producers, engineers and congratulations. Think. I mean, that's really cool to see you turn the beginning when I mean, I listened to episode of one Thank You, It's like, I can't play the song, so I'm gonna play a little cassio keyboard here. It's you know, it's not just dis Graceland now, it's you know all you've turned it into so many things. And then when I see stories, for example, uh, Pete Davidson, who's gonna play joy ramone? Yeah, I think, well, do you think about this. Yeah, I love it. Actually, I think that's great. I think he's gonna kill it. I'm rooting for him. You know, he's gonna get killed. I mean, the Ramones fans are going to be all over him. But I think he's a New York guy. I think he'll know how important it is to get that role right, and I think he'll do a good job. I listened to the episode on Joey Ramone and I think it was Joey and Johnny. Yes, And what did you learn about the Ramones that you didn't already know? You know? I actually met the Ramones and I was ten years old. My dad's band opened up for them, um, and I remember, you know, I didn't know who they were. I remember my dad telling me he brought me because he knew how important it was, you know, and he was like, you're gonna meet these guys, or you're gonna see these guys play because you're gonna love them. They're like the Beach Boys, but they're really loud. You know. All these years later like, yeah, it's kind of right, and uh, you know, I don't even really remember meeting them, but I remember them being around and they were these big, tall, clad and black mysterious figures. Um, and they kind of blew my blew my mind. I went back to my neighborhood and started telling everyone I knew about and all of a sudden, these punk rock kids are like kicking my ask because I thought I was lying about it. It's total, total, life changing changing thing. Um. But even even with that experience and growing up being a fan of that band, I didn't realize truly how much uh Johnny Ramona Joy Ramone hated each other and just how dysfunctional the band was, and how sad of a story it is. It's really sad talk about family hating each other. Oasis, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they ever I think so. I think they'll I think they'll get it together. I don't even know how much of that is. I mean, I know it's true, but I feel like for each of them, there's a part of them that knows that it's it's for the cameras, it's for Twitter, it's for whatever. And I think eventually they're gonna end up back together. Did you do an episode on Oasis or is one coming soon? Did I see one of those? I just released a two part two part of on Oasis these past few weeks. Yeah, okay, so what what about Oasis? Do you think most people don't know that? Because I was a I was a big fan when they put out What's the Story for about three records? And then I just got tired of the Shenanigans. Yeah, and I stopped and I watched the documentary and that's about it. You know, I'll go back and listen and enjoy. You know, some of the stuff from when I was twelve, those first two records are still incredible, though. Yeah, they're incredible. Um, I didn't know just how hard they lived it, you know, I didn't know, especially Liam and uh, you know, of course, you know, to really look into it as much before I had to write the episode on him. And the one story I love that's in that's in there is this is later in Oasis his career, like I think in the early two thousand's, Uh, there was some dust up at a hotel in Germany and uh, Liam gets gets knocked out by the cops and and pulled into the station and he wakes up and his two front teeth are missing, and the cops explained to him that, yeah, he fell when he was passed out on the stairs and they got bashed in, And of course he's a smart guy and he's like, well, if they got bashed in, they'd be bashed in. And they're they're like clean out, you know, like they're they were like yanked out, like the cops wanted to get back out and they yanked him out with flyers. That's brutal. That is brutal. And also for him to think about that right then, because you're right, I think I was just accept it. Yeah I went teeth that falling on my face. Yeah yeah, yeah, but they're just clean out of his head. They were so big, especially at home. I mean they were the second coming. They were they were almost Beatles. They were the Beatles and the sex Pistols. That's how I describe them. They were as far as far as the UK was concerned, I mean they were they were like they were everything. They had the attitude and they had the songs. It's a shame they didn't keep it going. It's a shame they didn't get we didn't get ten records out of him. Well in the States to their hits were mostly acoustick e or feel good bright songs, so we I didn't know how dark they were until I got older and could actually learn or cared to learn more about them. They had their hooligans, straight up violent soccer hooligans. It's the best I think. I saw a picture, you know, Conan O'Brien, Yeah, yeah, that was wild. I met him at this thing. Uh, it was funny. I was you know those things you gotta do for podcasts, You gotta go out around stage, you gotta talk about it, and there's a bunch of advertisers in the room. And we were at one of those things and uh, I was waiting in the lobby to be let in, and I noticed Conan O'Brien walk in, and uh, he kind of looks at me, and uh, you know, I look back at him, and then uh, someone says to me, we're talking because it they're like, hey, Carlin, Bryan is like staring at you, like like with evil eyes. I like what I turned around. He's like daggers at me, and we're both kind of wearing the exact same thing. I noticed we both have on like Jeane jackets, you know, pompadoors geene pants. I'm like, he's probably pissed that I'm like I'm dressed like him, you know. And then I walk up and he's on Now he's on stage, and I'm waiting in the hallway and he's coming off stage, and uh, I see this woman leading him right to me. And he gets close enough and he goes, is this him? And he points out here and say that. I'm like, what the hell is going on? And I love coning and you know, I'm from Boston, so I'm like, you know, I'm a little freaked out. And he comes up. He's like, I love your podcast and he tells me that He's like, you know, I had to go home the other night and I drove around for an extra hour so I could finish listening to the Brian Jones episode. And I was like, oh, man, you don't know what that means, Like that's gonna be He was so cool. He was so cool and aaronmankey from Laura that he does his podcast Laura. This guy know, he was standing next to me. He was he was he was smart enough to be like, hey, let me get a picture and he got a picture of the two of us, which is cool. Always good to have those friends. They can also step in and make in my case, maybe like a d web, like when I'm with somebody cool, because I want to be like, hey, may I get a picture with you? Because it's always then you're not as cool as they are, right exactly. But but if somebody goes, hey, this would be really cool for both you guys, let me get that picture. I'm like, okay, man, I guess then you're on the level. Yes, then it all stays the same. I wish it was like the seventies or eighties where everything was candids. You see those great pictures of like Jack Nicholson at Joan Didion's house just hanging out having a conversation with Mick Jagger, and you're like, you know, that's the stuff that I want on my walls, But that's never gonna have. We're in a different world now, know mine are all me taking a selfia me with somebody fames behind me, Like I know they're behind me. You did an episode on Joe Exotic. Yeah, yeah, that was kind of a joke. That was right when we hit the pandemic and I was looking for ways to just stay as connected as possible with people with the listeners, and I wanted to do them assault and that was in the middle of that whole thing, and I was like, hey, man, I do an episode in three days on this thing that we're all watching right now. Because I heard he was an actual singer, you know, and then I knew the story about how he kind of like, you know, he's singing in that in that series, but he's lips sinking someone else's songs. Is kind of a Millivanilli thing, So I was like, I can use that as the kind of crime. It was all very tongue in cheek, and I put it out. I had friends emailing me, They're like, hey, you know, he wasn't a real singer, and yeah, I know, it's a joke. Did you learn anything though about him that we didn't see on the show, because I, like, you watched every episode everything he got in this bad car crash. You know, he was sort of you know, he was you know, he's growing up in the South and homosexual and how to keep all that down, and that contributed to who he became and how he lived his life. But there wasn't much more out there besides what was in the show. What's the story about disgrace Land? The name why you name the podcast that? Oh that's uh, that's Jerry Lee Lewis all the way. I once I read that, like, you know, in researching that first episode, I knew I was gonna do the podcast. I knew I needed a name. I had nobody who was going to be And I read that the locals in Nesbit called Jerry Lee's place disgraceland, Uh, you know, in juxtaposition to Elvis's Graceland because they were, you know, two different people obviously, one dark, one light. So I was like, oh, that's it, that's my show title. Has anyone from any of the artist camps or families reached out to and been pissed about what they heard? No one's been pissed. I've heard good stuff. I mean I've heard. I've heard from people's families, um family members. I've heard from cops who were involved in some of this. Yeah. I heard from a cop who was involved with the the l A riots when I did the n w A episode. That meant a lot to me. That was he gave me some good feedback I heard from I heard from this dude, remember that show Welcome Back Carter. Of course, it's the guy who created that show. Was at the table with John Lennon and Pam Career that dust up at the Troubadour in l A that was in my John Lennon episode. He got in touch right away. He was like, you nailed it. That's exactly what happened. I was like, really, okay, cool the coolest fan of this show. Uh, coolest of the show. But a similar thing where you're like, day, it's pretty cool. They listened to this. Um, I don't know if he's if he would call himself a fan, but I got to spend some time with Elton John because, Uh, it was brought up to him that I interviewed him when he was doing this tour for his uh for rocket Man and the fact that he had already heard of the show and knew of the show. I'm mutual friend, had been at his house and played it for him, played him actually the John Lennon episode. The fact that he had that awareness of disgrace Land allowed the interview to happen, which was wild. That's pretty cool. I mean again, there are only so many living legends. We've had this debate on on this podcast at my radio show where it's like, who is the living legend? Elton John's definitely wanted them. We got we got a little Ifian coldplay. Yeah no, you say no, okay? Um, But my my greatest Elton John stories. I was sitting at a charity dinner. I like to tell this story because how often do you tell a story with you and Elton John? Right like you said, it was just cool to be able to be in the same room, but we're sitting literally right beside each other. He they just had their kid, so he had an iPad and he had pictures baby. He was showing me pictures of the baby, and it was like, and he was gonna go up and play. Um. One of my friends, his professional centers player Andy Roddick, used to be professional player. But Elton John was playing his benefit and I was hosting it. And so we're sitting at this table and showing me pictures and it's being I would say, little flirtatious at the same time, but it's selling John whatever, let's go. And so we're having a good time. I can't believe I'm hanging out with Elton John. We're talking and he goes up and he plays probably ten songs or so, and he's got a little prompter he has so many songs he reads the lyrics, can't chase all behind notes like he used to, but it's probably sent there. But the whole crowd is loving it. And about the last four songs, he stands up and acts like he's done. Everybody gives a little standing go and he sits back down. Does another song. Well, the final song I think he played Circle Alive for. I don't know what song it was. It doesn't matter, but let's just act like a circle alive. So he ha's circle, walks off stage, guts me my head, kisses me right on the mouth, and then keeps walking and and everybody looked at me to see what I was gonna do. I was like, Yeah, that's a that's a Melton John story. It's amazing. That's amazing. Yes, that's fantastic. That's so you're expanding like crazy. List me off again the shows that I gotta go check out now. I listened to Disgrace Land. What else you got? Twenty seven Club Season three launches tomorrow with Janice Joplin. We have two preziest previous seasons on Jim Morrison and Jimmie Hendricks, and then we've got bad Lands, which is this new franchise delving into Hollywood and sports, but it's basically Disgracefland just in these other cultural subject matters. And I've got a show on the Grateful Dead called Dead and Gone that I do. It's an investigative show that I do with Paine Lindsay. Was an investigative podcast True Crime bought all these missing and dead deadheads. Um, what else? What's happening with that? It's crazy? It's why is it just a culture? And in that culture they're just like the weirdos. And then that happened to be a few murderers, yes, dire wolves. It's basically I mean, look, you live that far off the grid as a deadhead, there's some wild stuff that's gonna happen. And that's what happened. Uh, I mean it's it's it's followed the Grateful Dead their whole career. And what makes it so interesting is that the Grateful Dead is obviously you know, they're not a violent band. I mean, the whole ethos of the Dead is is the complete opposite to mayhem and murder. But it's there, it's embedded into the into the culture in these uh, in these little sporadic moments and the stories are pretty fascinating. Okay, I just say, Hollywood, Hollywood Land, Hollywood Land. The launches May five, and listen, he shows up. He brings me four thirty dollar scratchhops. There you go, like when he pulls off in a fancy car and four thirty dollar scratchhops, you know life is pretty good for Jay. That's how you know. But listen, we met years ago in l a at the first ever I Heart Podcast Awards, and I felt guilty because I won the award and didn't deserve it. And I remember telling you that I don't have to start this award. Your podcast is the best one here. I don't know about that. No, it's true. I'm doing great things you even you have inspired me in a gazillion different ways. You're doing so much, you are hustling, you have an amazing spirit and a lot of hope at the core of everything you do. And I think right now, that's what we need. And I just want you to know from day one from I, from when I first got hip to what you were doing, I was like, this guy's the real deal and we need more people like you. It's inspiring. I appreciate that and you look just like me. It's like a mirror. He's in the same glasses, it's the same. Yeah, but I looked like you first, so that's true. I'm older, just barely though. So what are you doing in town? Why are you in Nashville? I had to do some TV stuff and then um headed to Memphis right now, actually right after this, hop in the car, head to Memphis, meeting up with with a friend and we're doing some research, and then I go back to be at my family in Florida for a couple of days. Is it Elvis research? I can't say, but yes. Do you think any chance Elvis lived past the the toilet? Uh? Yes, you do, not in any real way. But I'm going to play with that a little bit. I'm gonna mess with that. Any chance the misspelling on his grave was on purpose? I don't know. That's shocking though, isn't it. Yeah, that's crazy. How does that not get through? Not catch that? Yeah, that's nuts. I don't know unless they're just dicking with them on purpose. The seventies, man, it's wild. Do you think Elvis at his core was a good person? I think at his Corey was a good person, for sure. But I also think there's a lot that went on with Elvis. The olenge is the narrative in the myth that people think is false. That was pretty wild and pretty out there, and um, yeah, I think he had his demons and you know, I mean, dude, he was the most famous person on the planet for a very long time and living in this insane bubble and the pressure of all that, uh is something that we could never realize and I think it came out in violent ways that that we haven't really heard the full story on. Um, you know, he was he was obsessed with guns, he was you know, he he had tricky relationships with women. Obviously, the food thing, I mean, just nuts. I am a big fan. I appreciate you coming about you. Guys can follow disgrace Land pod that's what I follow. Are there other podcasting other accounts you want to, Yeah, you can follow at disgrace lam pod on Instagram, Twitter, and we're on Facebook and then of course all the other shows I do. I do for my production company called Double Elvis. That's just at Double Elvis. You can find that everywhere as well. And you can hear Disgraceland on the Amazon Music app. That's Amazon dot Calm slash disgrace. Big fan of what you do. And if I went on one of these scratchhops, I'm not going to say it was one of these scratchops, so you don't claim it. That would be its own episode. Thirty years later. I had to get up killing you because you came for money that I'm like, No, I wasn't it. Uh, Jake, good to see you, but thanks for having me. Thank I appreciate it. Thank you,