200 | Free Play Resistance: Structure-Seeking Kids in Child-Centered Play Therapy

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get a master class in child-centered,

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play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Judith in Michigan

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and she is wondering about a child who came in

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and did not play.

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So we're going to talk through that,

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but a couple of housekeeping things before we get into that topic,

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first and foremost,

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do me a favor, please.

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If you are planning to

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come to the meet up

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in Atlanta

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on October 18th Friday evening.

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During the APT conference,

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I need you to go to www.playtherapypodcast.com/meetup

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and

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let me know that you're coming.

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So you don't have to pay for anything. You don't have to sign up for anything.

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I just need you to click that you are planning on attending

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because I'm trying to secure a specific spot for us to meet

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and every single person that I'm talking to about this as well.

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How many people are you planning on having it.

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And I keep saying I have no idea.

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So please do me a favor, www.playtherapypodcast.com/meetup

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and please let me know that you are coming so

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that I can make sure that I have enough space

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and that I can accommodate the number of you all that are coming.

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So, for your reference,

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if you are not a podcast listener and or if you are not

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a coaching participant and or if you are not an email newsletter reader,

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those are the only three ways that I'm going to be

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publicizing this event. So

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if you

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are listening to the podcast, if you are in a coaching program, or,

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I suppose in the Collective as well.

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Sorry, I should say that.

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So, Collective, email newsletter, podcast, and coaching programs,

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it's only going to be reserved for those people because there's no

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other way that I can communicate to anyone else about this event.

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So

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com/meetup

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and let me know that you're coming.

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That would be really helpful.

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Ok. Second thing

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I want to read an email that I got

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because I got permission to share by the way.

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And this was such an encouraging email to me.

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I think it will be an encouragement to you all as well. So

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this is from Tess in Illinois

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and I just wanted to read this because some of the things that she said, I think

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just sum up what so many of us have felt.

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And one of my main goals in all of this stuff that I do is to

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help us all feel like we're not alone

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and that we are doing what we're meant to do and there's purpose behind it

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and there are other people on this journey with us.

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And I feel that this email kind of represents all of those things.

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So Tess in Illinois,

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thank you so much for letting me share this and thanks for sending this email.

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So let me share with you what she said.

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I wanted to reach out to you for a few months.

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Now, as my practice has entirely changed. Thanks to the work that you are doing.

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I've always known that I wanted to work with kids in a pediatric setting,

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especially the littles.

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However, once I was in the field,

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I became flooded and overwhelmed with the various interventions,

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theories and perspectives.

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My first year out of grad school, I joined a pediatric practice in Chicago.

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This was a wonderful experience for me

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as the practice was centered on the population I was passionate about.

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However, it was heavily theraplay focused and lacked a playroom.

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That whole year, I felt like I was throwing spaghetti on the wall,

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trying various directive interventions.

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I did it all

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and I had some great success with clients.

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But I slowly started to realize that it was due to

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the relationships I had with the kids and not the interventions.

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Aha.

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I spent that whole year riddled with anxiety about what intervention to

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pick and how I could best support these kids and families.

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Flash forward to this summer.

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My fiance and I were forced to make a move due to him starting med school.

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I joined a new practice as well as

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a nonprofit focused on serving children and families.

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This was my chance to redefine myself and find my footing in this play therapy world.

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I discovered your podcast after a clinician at my Chicago practice told me about

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it. Huh?

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This makes me laugh.

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I was so skeptical about being non

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directive as a person who struggles with not feeling in control.

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Mhm

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I talk about that a lot.

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However, once I listened and opened my mind to it, I was forever changed.

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I now have my own fully equipped playroom

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and I'm currently engaging in a CCPT training.

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I listen to your podcast and I recommend it to everyone I can.

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I feel so much more confident in my clinical skills

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and it has been remarkable to see the impact that CCPT has had on my clients.

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Tess. Thank you. And

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I, I just, I, every time I do episodes,

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I don't know if I've ever talked about this before,

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but you're gonna get a little insight into my world here.

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I sit and stare at my microphone, but I actually envision all of you.

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So I think about you all on your walks and on the treadmill and folding

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laundry and in your car and cooking dinner and all the things you tell me

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that we do together.

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And I actually think about you all. And so as I was reading that, I was envisioning

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you all nodding your head

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just in, echoing like, yes, I know exactly what that feels like.

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Yes, I've been there. Yes, I've, I've gone through that experience

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and it is amazing how CCPT grounds us

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and it

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serves as the foundation.

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So we're no longer throwing spaghetti at the wall.

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And Tess, I think what you said that stood out to me the most.

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I spent that whole year riddled with anxiety about what intervention to

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pick and how I could best support these kids and families.

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We don't have the pressure and the burden

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of quote figuring things out

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for our clients

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because they will do the work that they

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need to do from the child-centered perspective.

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And I also was so humored about the fact that I was skeptical about

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being non directive as a person who struggles with not feeling in control.

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I opened my talk at the Florida Association for Play Therapy Conference a

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couple of years ago with, "if you are a control freak,

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this might not be the model for you."

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So I completely understand that as well.

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But what a special email. Thank you so much, Tess. And I hope that you all

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just totally get what it feels like to have the freedom

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of finding CCPT and being all in and what that brings.

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So, really grateful to you, Tess. Thanks for sharing that.

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Ok, so now we're gonna get into Judith's question.

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That was a six or so minute detour. But we're back on track now.

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Ok. So let me read

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parts of Judith's email and then we'll dive into this question

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recently, I had a seven year old female client come to my well equipped playroom.

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I gave her the option to play with whatever she likes.

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She started playing with a few things.

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But after a few minutes said she wanted to go home,

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even though I was engaged with her in play,

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my other clients always get engaged in some activity and always want to stay longer.

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She loves arts and crafts.

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So I make sure every session I have a craft project for her to

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do that is tied in to some type of intervention that I'm doing.

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I let her lead the details of it even if I had something else in mind.

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Do you ever find some clients need more structure

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and are not just happy to do free play?

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How do you handle such a situation?

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I do a mixture of both starting off with directive

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play therapy and then letting them have free play,

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but wouldn't mind going completely into child-centered play therapy.

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All right. So Judith, thank you for the email first. And foremost,

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and all right, my veteran listeners that have been with me from the beginning and,

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or who have binge listened to my podcast episodes in order,

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you know what I'm going to say here.

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So this will be no shock to those of you that have been around the block with me for

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those of you who are new or have maybe not listened to all of the episodes in order.

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First of all, welcome. So glad you're here.

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Second of all, please do that,

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please,

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you don't have to stop this episode, but please stop listening to current episodes

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and go back and start at episode one.

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It is a seminal training. It is intentionally curriculum driven

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to give you from the very beginning all the way through

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a complete understanding of the child-centered

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model. So

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if you happen to hear about this and you started listening at current episodes,

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it would do you so much service and justice to go back and start at the beginning. So

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for those of you that have been around everywhere with me on this journey,

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you know that I'm going to say

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Judith,

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you have to pick one or the other and you have to stay in that lane once you decide.

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So what I mean by that is you cannot be directed

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to at the start and then child-centered toward the end,

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you can't combine those theoretical models,

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you cannot have both in the playroom with a child.

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It is so confusing

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and one actually contradicts and undermines the work of the other.

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So a child that is in a directive play

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therapy room and a under a directive theoretical approach,

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their brain is going to process things a certain way.

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A child in a CCPT playroom and under a CCPT approach,

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their brain is going to process things completely

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differently and to have their brains that are not

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actively wanting to be engaged in therapy anyway, unless they're older than 13,

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try to make sense of. Sometimes I'm in charge.

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Sometimes I'm not, sometimes I'm told what to do. Sometimes I'm not.

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Sometimes we're quote, working on something. Sometimes I get to do what I choose

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that

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it's just a muddy mess and it actually serves

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as a deterrent to progress for either approach.

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So

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my favorite phrase, you all know what I'm going to say,

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I'm sure you're screaming it at your speakers right now.

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Eclecticism is the death of our field and the death of our profession.

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So, Judith, I lovingly beseech you.

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I don't even know where that word came from, but it just came out of my mouth.

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I lovingly beg and beseech you to decide if you're going to be wholly child-centered,

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which ideally, I hope so.

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Of course,

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or if you're going to be wholly directive

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and go forward with that theoretical model,

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but there can't be an intertwining of the two.

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So that had to be said straight out of the gate just because

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the rest of this kind of falls apart if we're not

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really sure that we're doing one theoretical model with kids.

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OK. So now let's answer some of the other details of your question.

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When you specifically said, do you ever find some clients need more structure

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and are not just happy to do free play?

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Yes and no.

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So my answer there, that's not a non answers. It's it's a both and.

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There are some clients that want more structure,

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they crave more structure,

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they can't fathom not having structure.

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And then there are kids that are very uncomfortable

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being in charge and they're very uncomfortable with the child-centered

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approach where they're given autonomy to do whatever they choose to do.

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But do they ever need structure and are not happy to do play? No,

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because the children that are not comfortable

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playing and that crave more structure.

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That's maladaptive coping.

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So if we have a child that comes in and says, I don't know what to do.

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Can you just tell me, can you just ask me questions or they sit and do nothing?

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We know there's an undercurrent issue going on. Likely huge levels of anxiety

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almost always through the roof, anxiety levels.

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And how will a child ever learn to work on those issues

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if they're not forced to confront

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scenarios like that?

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They want structure,

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they want to be told what to do because they have no practice making decisions.

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They have no practice taking responsibility for their choices.

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They have no practice owning what happens.

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Instead of just

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listening to someone else.

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This is a process where kids are learning to do

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things that they never get the chance to do anywhere else

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and with anyone else.

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So they have a therapeutic guide rail in us as a CCPT therapist

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and then they're able to do this work, which is deep and scary.

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It's overwhelming for highly anxious kids.

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So of course, she's going to sit and not play.

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Of course, she's going to say she wants to go home.

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Now, Judith, you didn't happen to say what session this is.

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But I suspect maybe in context it might have been the first session.

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So if that's the scenario, then there's another factor here.

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There's no relationship built yet.

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You're a stranger to this little girl

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on session one.

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And it's very scary

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to go into a strange place with a strange person

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and have strange expectations.

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So many kids will avoid that

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many kids are unnerved by that.

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And that is a

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process for us. We need to be patient. We need to trust the process

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and we need to just continue to acknowledge what's going on.

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So our responses are going to be, we reflect content

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and we reflect feelings.

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Oh, you really wish that our time was already up.

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Mm

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You're nervous about not having something specifically to do.

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You're uncomfortable that I don't have anything that we're going to work on today.

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Ok. So we're going to constantly use reflective responses in those moments.

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But then we're going to set pseudo limits as well.

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You really wish that our time was already up, but we still have 20 more minutes left

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because the goal is that the child learns to sit in the pocket of their feelings

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and the child learns to sort through

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the discomfort and the unknown and the fear

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and they build coping skills and resilience and problem solving

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and all kinds of other things along the way.

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So

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we absolutely are going to be patient and just honor

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the fact that the child isn't ready to play yet.

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But every child eventually plays

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and I can say that as an absolute for in almost 20 years, I have never

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had a child

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that refuses to play forever,

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but I've had,

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oh my gosh. I don't even know probably 100 kids

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that have refused to play at some point.

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So we have to trust that when a child is ready, willing and able to play, they will.

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But until that point, we continue to be engaged verbally,

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we continue to return responsibility.

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We continue to reflectively respond

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and we give them the freedom to work through it.

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And eventually kids will know the work they need to do.

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They always know the work they need to do.

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But eventually they will get to the point where they can do that work.

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And then my final thought is you mentioned that,

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you know that she loves arts and crafts.

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So you make sure every session that you have a craft project for her to do

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that is tied to some type of intervention that I'm doing.

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Ok. So again, as I mentioned before, we can't have directive and non

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directive in the same playroom.

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So

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absolutely have arts and crafts materials there.

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But you leave the prompt open ended.

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You can play with all the toys in most of the ways that you'd like.

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And she will probably gravitate toward arts and

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crafts if she loves it because that's safe.

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It is not going to unearth things that she's not ready to deal with.

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She can sit in color or paint

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and that is soothing and calming and avoidant.

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Many anxious kids,

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many kids that can't handle the control of

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being in charge in a playroom will start with

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artistic play

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because it's something that they can control and manage

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and it doesn't feel as scary.

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So, Judith, I suspect she will naturally move toward arts and crafts at some point

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without it being quote tied to some type of intervention that you're doing.

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There can't be an intervention other than adherence to CCPT.

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So you can play with all the toys in most of the ways that you'd like.

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You're in charge when you're here

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and then

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she has it from there.

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So

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I hope that that's helpful to all of you.

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I hope that for some of you that maybe have been straddling the fence of.

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So, hold on to take a left turn with me for a second.

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When I was younger. I don't even know at what age this happened.

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But I went to like a youth convention or something with my church

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and the word that

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the guy that was speaking used for someone who had one foot on each side of the fence,

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you know, like the fence, straddlers or whatever,

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he called them mugwumps.

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So when I said, you know, if you've had, if you've been straddling the fence,

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I was like you mugwumps.

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Anyway, this is the way my brain works y'all.

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So if you've been a mugwump and you've been half in,

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half out and you've been doing some directive and some non

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directive.

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First of all,

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I am so glad you're here because you stick with me and this group long enough,

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you will be a full CCPT convert by the time this is all said and done.

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So you're in the right place,

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but please be mindful that you can't do both.

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It,

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it, it would actually be more harmful than good

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for a child to be trying to make sense of a directive and a non directive approach

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they can't coexist.

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So please be mindful of that and please be encouraged

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that this podcast equips you with everything you need to know

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to be all in on CCPT from episode one all the way through in order.

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So I hope that, that encourages you, hope that that supports you.

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And as always, the Collective is available to you ccptcollective.com.

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We have 130 members in there now.

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So if you would like to be around other CCPTs and have support there,

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please check that out.

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The coaching programs are available.

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The email newsletter encourages you and supports you. There's all kinds of ways

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so that you can feel like you know what you're doing,

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you can be confident and you can be articulate about this process.

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All right, y'all love you. Have a lovely week. I hope that you've been enjoying the

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more consistent Q and A.

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So I'm really trying to get through these emails and

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I appreciate you listening to all these episodes each week.

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I think it's been like four a week.

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So I know that's a lot, but I appreciate y'all talk again soon. Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

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Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.

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Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.