Native Bee Diversity w/ Krystle Hickman

<v Speaker 1>Okay, there we go. He took his medge. Now he's coherent.
<v Speaker 1>All right. Good morning Crystal Hickman. Today, I've got Crystal
<v Speaker 1>Hickman based out of California, who's a native bee conservationist, biologist, researcher.
<v Speaker 1>You got a nice book that your publisher just sent
<v Speaker 1>me to coincidentally, like it was in the mail when
<v Speaker 1>I got back after I actually met you at the
<v Speaker 1>said the SoCal Botanist Symposium, which was a wonderful event.
<v Speaker 1>I was like, it was goddamn, it was nice. I
<v Speaker 1>wish we had something like that out here where it's
<v Speaker 1>just like a day of presentations on all these interesting subjects.
<v Speaker 1>Your photography spectacular, which I'm going to have to ask
<v Speaker 1>you about of course, because it's it's really you know,
<v Speaker 1>good depth of field macro photography. But you know, you
<v Speaker 1>study native bees, which I'm always saying, fuck the honey
<v Speaker 1>bees because I down where I live there deadly like
<v Speaker 1>every faro bee colony encounter is going to be the schoot.
<v Speaker 1>A lot of hybrids, the quote unquote Africanized hybrids that
<v Speaker 1>are are extremely aggressive, you know, bread hybridized in Brazil,
<v Speaker 1>and also they just don't benefiting and I think it's
<v Speaker 1>got to be obnoxious for you too, because you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell people I'm so used to people being plant blind.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just I live in a world where
<v Speaker 1>most of the dominant society doesn't care about the living
<v Speaker 1>world and just is kind of alienated from it. It's
<v Speaker 1>not even their fault. But when you mentioned bees, people
<v Speaker 1>always think of the honey bees, the honey bees safe.
<v Speaker 2>They totally do.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>By the way, you should start your own botanist symposium
<v Speaker 3>in Texas. I know, so like maybe this is your
<v Speaker 3>your thing to like, like you're sign to start one.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's it'd be an awesome thing. I
<v Speaker 1>mean the thing is like Texas botany is still so
<v Speaker 1>like prim and proper and vanilla in many ways, like
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, like shirt tucked in and you know, dockers
<v Speaker 1>that like very like this like aspiring to be yuppy.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know. It's not as loose
<v Speaker 1>as in California. It's not like as proud to like
<v Speaker 1>you know, proud to have like be dirty, have been
<v Speaker 1>out in the field, been scuffed up, you know what
<v Speaker 1>I mean. It's a very like a risk. It's got
<v Speaker 1>too much of that aristocratic shit, and it's still.
<v Speaker 3>You know, what you should require, like twenty percent of
<v Speaker 3>like verbiage should be swearing, and then maybe that'll just
<v Speaker 3>like filter out.
<v Speaker 1>Some people show us your scars, like show us where
<v Speaker 1>you've bled from falling on the limestone or having your
<v Speaker 1>flesh torn open by senegalia, you know.
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, Yes, that's requirement. And I think you would make
<v Speaker 3>an amazing symposium. Yeah, and would I would show up.
<v Speaker 1>And you're not allowed to tuck your shirt in right,
<v Speaker 1>no matter.
<v Speaker 2>What exactly who wants to do that?
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know, man, It's weird. It's
<v Speaker 1>weird out here. Texas is a whole other world, as
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you're were.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but.
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, so this but so the honey bees thing is
<v Speaker 1>is frustrating as hell. But like this, this book, this
<v Speaker 1>book shows that there's some it's called ABC's of California's
<v Speaker 1>native bees and it's you know, every different letters at
<v Speaker 1>different species, you know, from melisodes Agulus, mega, kylie, browneye,
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. You know. So this, I mean, this shows
<v Speaker 1>that there's so much more diversity. And this is probably
<v Speaker 1>such a drop in the bucket in terms of the
<v Speaker 1>diversity out there.
<v Speaker 3>Gosh, it's yeah, seriously, it is, because there's there's a
<v Speaker 3>little over sixteen hundred species like some of My friend
<v Speaker 3>actually counted Olivia and Messinger Carroll. She got to six
<v Speaker 3>hundred and forty three species and it's just yeah, I
<v Speaker 3>picked twenty six of them. But there's even a bee
<v Speaker 3>in the book that is undescribed. So there's there's still
<v Speaker 3>undescribed species in California and the rest of the world
<v Speaker 3>as well, So.
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it. Yeah, it's like these these things are there.
<v Speaker 1>The way I view it, there are pieces to this
<v Speaker 1>living machine, and you need all the pieces for the
<v Speaker 1>machine to functions movie, and there's still stuff that we
<v Speaker 1>don't we don't know that humans haven't, you know, bothered
<v Speaker 1>taking a close look at So.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, definitely, And.
<v Speaker 1>I was surprised. The highest diversity Sam Dragie said that
<v Speaker 1>too with that presentation he gave. But the highest diversity
<v Speaker 1>of bees is in the deserts. Is that true? And
<v Speaker 1>if so, why Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So in California, at least, the highest biodiversity is
<v Speaker 3>in Riverside County and San Diego County. And I just
<v Speaker 3>think it's it's tied to the plant diversity, which is
<v Speaker 3>just incredible. There's plants that you see in the desert
<v Speaker 3>that are nowhere else in the world, and a lot
<v Speaker 3>of the bees, like if you actually visit the desert,
<v Speaker 3>you'll notice that there's a lot more symbiotic relationships than
<v Speaker 3>there are in other places as well.
<v Speaker 2>So these these.
<v Speaker 3>Bees can't live anywhere else because they need the pollen
<v Speaker 3>from that specific plant. Yeah and yeah, and it's just
<v Speaker 3>it's the desert plants or just some of them are
<v Speaker 3>so weird.
<v Speaker 2>But just so interesting.
<v Speaker 1>I'm always blown away because needing pollen from a specific
<v Speaker 1>plant Oligo elect the is. I wasn't even really aware
<v Speaker 1>that was a thing until like a couple years ago.
<v Speaker 1>You know, like there's certain bees that can only eat
<v Speaker 1>the pollen of a certain family or genus. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>that level of specialization, you know, is wild. I guess
<v Speaker 1>in deserts especially, it's so extreme. It's such an extreme climate,
<v Speaker 1>you've kind of got to have these mutualisms. But I just, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I just I was kind of astounded to find out
<v Speaker 1>that in the and where it's tougher for plants to survive,
<v Speaker 1>you know, as opposed to like the music higher rainfall
<v Speaker 1>East there's more native bee diversity.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And it's really interesting too because a lot of times,
<v Speaker 3>like people say, like the plants and the bees evolved
<v Speaker 3>alongside each other, which they did, but really the bees
<v Speaker 3>evolved to suit the plant's needs. So that's why sometimes
<v Speaker 3>you just see features on these bees or behaviors that
<v Speaker 3>are just so unique you could tell they just basically
<v Speaker 3>were designed to.
<v Speaker 2>Fit these plants. Like the.
<v Speaker 3>TV for example, it has a relationship with this ghost flower.
<v Speaker 3>The ghost flower basically the back end of it, it
<v Speaker 3>looks like the back end of a female beat. So
<v Speaker 3>a male flies in there, tries to mate with the
<v Speaker 3>beat with the bake b and ends up getting a
<v Speaker 3>bunch of pollen deposited on its back. So every time
<v Speaker 3>it tries to mate with this flower, it just pollinates it.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, ghost flower with ghost flowers mojavia or what would
<v Speaker 1>they change it to? Now?
<v Speaker 3>I think it's I think that's still the genus. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>you know what was actually funny about that one, Like
<v Speaker 3>people were debating what the genus was, so I put
<v Speaker 3>both both names in the book because I could not
<v Speaker 3>figure out what it like, what it was.
<v Speaker 2>We're going back and forth with it, which was really annoying.
<v Speaker 1>I left. I mean I moved out of California four
<v Speaker 1>or five years ago. Just I mean, I just kind
<v Speaker 1>of moved. I ended up moving to Texas for family
<v Speaker 1>because my daughter's grandparents were here. But I mean, I
<v Speaker 1>still I learned botany in the deserts. I really got
<v Speaker 1>into banni in the deserts, and I just, you know,
<v Speaker 1>it was so it was so cool being back there
<v Speaker 1>and seeing all the you know, just it's it's it's
<v Speaker 1>such a different desert too, Like it's Texas is where
<v Speaker 1>you know, you see on the hundred ridy and the
<v Speaker 1>condent starts to dry out as you move west. But
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you'll see like the same genera and
<v Speaker 1>families in some genera you see here that you won't
<v Speaker 1>see in California at all, but just different species, like
<v Speaker 1>different species in the same genus are the same family,
<v Speaker 1>but just wild variations on them. And that you know,
<v Speaker 1>the California deserts, man, there's so much drier, like four
<v Speaker 1>to five inches of rain a year. It's nuts. Like
<v Speaker 1>out here, it's like we get twenty inches of rain. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it's it's and Sonoran Desert is higher rainfall too. You know,
<v Speaker 1>it can be really lush during those summer monsoons. But
<v Speaker 1>but anyway, but yeah, mojavilla confer to flora. It's an
<v Speaker 1>annual and it's some plantagenetcy just for a refresher for
<v Speaker 1>anybody who doesn't know out there, as well as for
<v Speaker 1>my own ass, because I haven't seen this plant in
<v Speaker 1>for years. But it's yeah, and it's it's adapted a
<v Speaker 1>morphology resembling the flower Menzilia involucrado, which is in Lois Station.
<v Speaker 1>I remember that too. That's wild. So anyway, so the
<v Speaker 1>ghost flower has a specialist be pollinator mojavia does.
<v Speaker 3>It does It's called the zero Littus bee, and there's
<v Speaker 3>there's only two species in that genus.
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I picked the TB for the book.
<v Speaker 3>And it's funny because they like they almost look identical,
<v Speaker 3>the two bees. The only way you can tell them
<v Speaker 3>apart is by like flipping them over and looking at
<v Speaker 3>the underside or by location.
<v Speaker 1>Is this, uh and let me say, I'm looking at
<v Speaker 1>that zero li Liketus Timberlake I timber who is Timberlake's
<v Speaker 1>named after the pop star the teen.
<v Speaker 2>I mean you could think it's justin Timberlake. But yeah,
<v Speaker 2>there's Also.
<v Speaker 3>Timberlake is a very very famous millitologist who has his
<v Speaker 3>name just attached his so many different bees and discoveries.
<v Speaker 1>He based out of California. Then I guess you know what.
<v Speaker 3>I'm actually not sure where he's based out of because
<v Speaker 3>you could go all over the US and see Timberlake bees.
<v Speaker 3>M Yeah, so it's him, or like you see like
<v Speaker 3>Missioner as well. I've seen Missioner's name just pop up
<v Speaker 3>all over the world, which is crazy. So I'm actually
<v Speaker 3>sure where they're based out of it.
<v Speaker 1>You've got scales in the book too, like a like
<v Speaker 1>a scale in centimeters. That's amazing. Shit, I didn't see.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, there we go. There's some nice money. Shefs
<v Speaker 1>God damn it.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know what's funny too. So I anything that's
<v Speaker 3>under three centimeters, I use the metric system. But when
<v Speaker 3>I'm talking to a lot of people who are just
<v Speaker 3>like most people I talk to.
<v Speaker 2>Are American, and they're like imperials. It's like a sixteenth
<v Speaker 2>open inch. I started using.
<v Speaker 3>Em and m's for size reference, and everyone it just
<v Speaker 3>helps everyone knows, like, oh, this bee is half an
<v Speaker 3>eminem and everyone just knows how big it is.
<v Speaker 1>You got to break it down to a level that
<v Speaker 1>people understand. Like if I was talking to my five
<v Speaker 1>year old, I would say that, I'd be like, it's
<v Speaker 1>the size of an MNA. She'd be like, Oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I get it.
<v Speaker 2>I mean it works with thirty year olds too, So yeah.
<v Speaker 1>What is what is? I want to ask you about
<v Speaker 1>the genus centrist too, because that's a gene that's a
<v Speaker 1>bee that supposedly pollinates one of my favorite plants, Crimerium.
<v Speaker 1>But before we get into that, what are the diagnostic
<v Speaker 1>factors you used to identify bees? Like if someone's looking
<v Speaker 1>if they get a really nice macroshop, but they don't
<v Speaker 1>know where to start in terms of identification, what would
<v Speaker 1>you look at?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so people get bees, wasps, and flies confused a lot.
<v Speaker 3>I would say the easiest thing to tell is if
<v Speaker 3>you look at the antennae length. So if they have
<v Speaker 3>short antennae, it's a fly. If they have really large
<v Speaker 3>eyes that take up most of their head, that's a fly.
<v Speaker 3>There's very few exceptions in the bee world, and that's
<v Speaker 3>just with mail honey bees. Also, the wing count, so
<v Speaker 3>bees and wasps have four wings, flies have two. Also,
<v Speaker 3>on the side of a fly's body, there's this little
<v Speaker 3>thing called like a halter, which looks like a bowling pin.
<v Speaker 3>Basically it takes place in the position where the second
<v Speaker 3>wing would normally be. And then bees and wasps they
<v Speaker 3>nation is a really good way to tell them apart.
<v Speaker 3>Wasps have veins that go to the tips of their wings. Also,
<v Speaker 3>behavior is a really different thing. So I would look
<v Speaker 3>at if it's collecting other insects like thrips or spiders
<v Speaker 3>or caterpillars, things like that. That's something that bees don't do.
<v Speaker 3>So bees are just technically like vegetarian wasps, but.
<v Speaker 1>Would be eating. They'd be eating thrips and other insects
<v Speaker 1>like they're like they're collecting other small yeah, so.
<v Speaker 3>They collect them a lot of times, or they hang
<v Speaker 3>out in a colony of ants. Like if you see
<v Speaker 3>like a little like bee or wasp looking insects hanging
<v Speaker 3>out in the colony, they'll do something called overpositing, so
<v Speaker 3>they'll stick a little egg in the body of like
<v Speaker 3>a thrip or a scale something like that.
<v Speaker 2>That's not something that bees do.
<v Speaker 3>Also, look for pollen collecting structures on bees, so females
<v Speaker 3>have those, they'll either have them on their back legs.
<v Speaker 3>It's just like kind of puffy hairy pants or on
<v Speaker 3>the underside of their abdomens.
<v Speaker 2>That's not something that wasps have either.
<v Speaker 3>There's also something called a ocular sinus, which is an ended.
<v Speaker 2>Basically kind of looks like the shape of your thumb
<v Speaker 2>in the.
<v Speaker 3>Front of a wasp sie and bees don't have that
<v Speaker 3>ocular sinus.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm writing this stuff down, but so that's that.
<v Speaker 1>That's the thing that's nice about wasps is I think
<v Speaker 1>all of them are predatory, right.
<v Speaker 2>No, there's some pollen or flower wasps that aren't.
<v Speaker 1>There's oh, there's there's goal wasps too.
<v Speaker 2>Huh, there are yeah, I love Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Obviously I'm not I'm not the person to consult on this,
<v Speaker 1>but I do have an interest and I am listening.
<v Speaker 1>But I mean a lot, a lot of wasps are predatory,
<v Speaker 1>and that's why you know they use them for bio
<v Speaker 1>controls exactly. And there was like a small there was
<v Speaker 1>a tiny wasp I found in my yard, like a
<v Speaker 1>little red thing, and it was and it was on
<v Speaker 1>I think it was on a croton, but it didn't
<v Speaker 1>have a stinger. I mean, it looked like a wasp,
<v Speaker 1>like a tinier version. It didn't look like obviously one
<v Speaker 1>of the wasps that would sting you. And then I
<v Speaker 1>put it on in and looked it up and I
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, this is like a tiny red yeah,
<v Speaker 1>parasitoid wasp. This is dope. I didn't you know. This
<v Speaker 1>is obviously going to help keep you know, white flies
<v Speaker 1>and other stuff under control in my yard. I mean
<v Speaker 1>that's been one of the fun things about you know,
<v Speaker 1>I live like right on the Mexican border, so it's
<v Speaker 1>basically the subtropics, and I get to I mean, this
<v Speaker 1>is the life I get to see from this little
<v Speaker 1>ecosystem I've created, and it's very dense, is incredible, Like
<v Speaker 1>my yard has become a classroom, like a learning lab basically.
<v Speaker 1>It's so it's dope. Every time I got walk my truck,
<v Speaker 1>I see different species of of insects, you know, from
<v Speaker 1>glowing the dark click beetles to bil oh yeah, I
<v Speaker 1>get biluminicon click beetles. There was a fucking tarantula at
<v Speaker 1>my front, like right near my door last year. I
<v Speaker 1>don't know where she came from. I just saw this
<v Speaker 1>little hole appear and I was like, what the fuck
<v Speaker 1>is it? I knew it wasn't like a mouse or anything.
<v Speaker 1>And then I saw her like excavating it and going
<v Speaker 1>back in and then coming out, and it was like,
<v Speaker 1>that's amazing, man, no way, Yeah, one of those big
<v Speaker 1>Texas tarantulas, you know. And then I don't know what
<v Speaker 1>happened to her, if something ended up getting her or what,
<v Speaker 1>but but yeah, I mean I was so stoked to
<v Speaker 1>have her. And then we get these little trap door
<v Speaker 1>spiders too that can like those.
<v Speaker 2>Are some of my favorite.
<v Speaker 1>They can live for like a decade. I didn't know
<v Speaker 1>that you can live for a decade. And they build
<v Speaker 1>that little you know, it looks like a to be crass.
<v Speaker 1>It looks like a used condom in the ground. Like
<v Speaker 1>I excavated one by accident. I was like, what is this?
<v Speaker 1>And then I could feel the weight at the bottom
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh, I know what this is.
<v Speaker 1>And it had the little, you know, hinged door at
<v Speaker 1>the top and I was like, this is I mean,
<v Speaker 1>I put it back and I felt bad, but uh.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm sure that's the condom a lot of people
<v Speaker 3>would like to use.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, but it's cool because then the you know,
<v Speaker 1>you'll see the tarantula hawks going around looking for them,
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's remarkable. I definitely pay a lot more
<v Speaker 1>attention to insects now than I used to.
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, no, I think it's amazing too, like what
<v Speaker 3>you've created in your yard, because like with me personally,
<v Speaker 3>I live in an apartment, so I have to travel
<v Speaker 3>for nature. And I think it's amazing when people create
<v Speaker 3>these ecosystems in their yard and nature is just literally
<v Speaker 3>right outside your door.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, And I.
<v Speaker 2>Think more people should be inspired by that.
<v Speaker 1>And it comes back so quick too. Man. You can
<v Speaker 1>take like the bleakest the bleakest urban area and plant
<v Speaker 1>like a native plant, like like you need like a
<v Speaker 1>you know, a good amount like a vacant lot or
<v Speaker 1>some size of a vacant lot or something like that,
<v Speaker 1>and you plant native plants and it's you know, even
<v Speaker 1>if you're in like the bleakest area like concrete all around,
<v Speaker 1>some stuff is going to start coming back. And then
<v Speaker 1>as the years progress, more will come back. Especially you know,
<v Speaker 1>you think a lot of these you realize a lot
<v Speaker 1>of these things are flying high overhead and they're looking
<v Speaker 1>down and they're going to go to the If you're
<v Speaker 1>like the biggest this density of green canopy, they're going
<v Speaker 1>to go right to there like a magnet exactly.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>I call those like native landscaping bridges. So when you
<v Speaker 3>have like this own thing in your yard just ecosystem
<v Speaker 3>if they are seeking out new areas, just like encourage
<v Speaker 3>your neighbors to plant a small patch of native area
<v Speaker 3>and it helps increase the diversity genetic diversity of the insects.
<v Speaker 3>And also pollinators are more likely to find your yard
<v Speaker 3>as well.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And then all the cool birds and shit that you
<v Speaker 1>know utilize those things that eat those things and eat
<v Speaker 1>caterpillars or whatever. Okay, Well, going back to identifications. So
<v Speaker 1>if you're looking at like if you are looking you
<v Speaker 1>know it's a bee and you know it's not a
<v Speaker 1>open honeybee, how do you differentiate what I got to
<v Speaker 1>throw those jabs in there? And how do you differentiate
<v Speaker 1>Like how would you start trying to figure out what
<v Speaker 1>genus it is?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so if you have a really good camera, I
<v Speaker 3>would look at the wing day nation, because you can
<v Speaker 3>actually ide abeats genus sometimes even species via these two
<v Speaker 3>little cells called sub marginal cells from the wings. Sometimes
<v Speaker 3>they have three cells. Also, head shape is a big thing.
<v Speaker 3>If it has like a head that's shaped like a ball.
<v Speaker 3>A lot of times you could just tell that Sudadatia
<v Speaker 3>just by looking at the head. Also, sometimes they'll have
<v Speaker 3>different like facial features like eclippius, which would be like
<v Speaker 3>a facial plate. That's a good way you could tell
<v Speaker 3>males from females because most females don't have that facial hair.
<v Speaker 3>They call them teeth on the mandibles, So if you
<v Speaker 3>look at the points, you can count how many there are.
<v Speaker 3>That's a good way to tell different species or genera.
<v Speaker 1>The little pincher like the little face, but you would
<v Speaker 1>look at the wing venation that doesn't Does that help
<v Speaker 1>with genus of B or just to make sure it's
<v Speaker 1>a be you're saying.
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, it's genus of B. Like they're so different.
<v Speaker 3>You can like look at those charts of different wings
<v Speaker 3>the top, larger wing, the fore wing, and you can
<v Speaker 3>look at that until what kind of be you're looking at?
<v Speaker 2>We got yeah, Also.
<v Speaker 1>Really quick, really quick head shape, wing venation, submarginal cells.
<v Speaker 1>Those are all good for identifying the genus And then
<v Speaker 1>what were you going to say?
<v Speaker 3>You can also look at their abdomen, so the way
<v Speaker 3>the hair lies on the abdomen. Some of them have
<v Speaker 3>hair in the middle of their band. So they have
<v Speaker 3>different like segments on their abdomens that are called bands.
<v Speaker 3>And you can differentiate between genera by where that hair lies,
<v Speaker 3>like some is in the middle, some is at the end,
<v Speaker 3>some is at the base. You can also tell them
<v Speaker 3>apart by where they have pollen collecting structures, so if
<v Speaker 3>they have them on their back legs or underneath their abdomen.
<v Speaker 3>Some of them even have in turn crops, so they
<v Speaker 3>don't actually have any external pollen collecting structure.
<v Speaker 2>So that's another way.
<v Speaker 1>This isn't this is okay, this is great. I got
<v Speaker 1>like fucking five of these key points. This is excellent,
<v Speaker 1>thank you. Okay, So where where are they collect in
<v Speaker 1>the pollen? Where's the hair position on the abdomen, what's
<v Speaker 1>the head look like? What shape is it? Wing venation?
<v Speaker 1>And then the uh, sub marginal cells?
<v Speaker 2>What are those exactly? So those are the two cells
<v Speaker 2>or two or three cells that are located on the
<v Speaker 2>four wings.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, two cells on a four wings? What are they?
<v Speaker 3>Two or three cells? So they're shaped, all of them
<v Speaker 3>are shaped differently.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, well we'll have to look it up on
<v Speaker 1>Google or something. They'll you know, the listeners. The kids
<v Speaker 1>can look it up on the Google. All right, this
<v Speaker 1>is great, thank you. So okay, so we got okay,
<v Speaker 1>so this is this is like exactly because I've always
<v Speaker 1>wanted to ask, you know, what is a b what
<v Speaker 1>is a bee researcher called? What isn't what? Technically?
<v Speaker 2>Melotologist?
<v Speaker 1>Melotologist? Yeah, how do you spell it?
<v Speaker 2>M E l I T t O l O g I.
<v Speaker 1>S t okay? Dope? All right, thank you? All right,
<v Speaker 1>that's the M E l I T t O l
<v Speaker 1>O g I S t okay. You know, like I
<v Speaker 1>just take on the personality of like a like pre
<v Speaker 1>scenile Italian man. It's just I can't wait to be old.
<v Speaker 1>I'm just gonna I fucking make it them.
<v Speaker 2>No, I have never done that, but I mean.
<v Speaker 1>We've always we've always, you know, we got I got
<v Speaker 1>to roll up to fill at some point in my life.
<v Speaker 1>I'm almost there. Okay. So anyway, so all right, going
<v Speaker 1>to the the genus centrists. Is this true with the
<v Speaker 1>Cromeria with the Cromeria flowers. Crimeria, for those who don't know,
<v Speaker 1>is a really cool hemi parasitic plant that is in
<v Speaker 1>its own family. I guess it's closely related or more
<v Speaker 1>closely related to kreosote than than anything else you might
<v Speaker 1>find in the deserts of southern California. But it's got
<v Speaker 1>these really cool flowers and they're like pink with these
<v Speaker 1>two of the petals have been turned into these these
<v Speaker 1>oil producing glands. So is it true what they say
<v Speaker 1>about Centris the genus centrist a bee.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's interesting because you'll actually find different species
<v Speaker 3>in the genus centrist going to specific flowers. But yeah,
<v Speaker 3>they love flowers with that they can collect oil from
<v Speaker 3>their oil collecting bees, so you could definitely find them
<v Speaker 3>on like the kreaso as well.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, that's true.
<v Speaker 1>Have you have you ever seen a different bee on
<v Speaker 1>Crimeria or is it always Centris?
<v Speaker 2>You know what?
<v Speaker 3>I feel like, I've seen a Kaleides on there. Those
<v Speaker 3>are the heart shaped these with the heart shaped.
<v Speaker 2>Faces, m H.
<v Speaker 3>And I think also Mega Kylie. But those are generalist pollinators,
<v Speaker 3>a lot of them, so they'll actually visit just a
<v Speaker 3>lot of different flowers.
<v Speaker 2>But that's honey.
<v Speaker 3>Bees I think I've seen on them. Yeah, but they
<v Speaker 3>try and get on everything.
<v Speaker 1>I've seen honey bees on Ambrosia, which is you know,
<v Speaker 1>win eleinated plant. Yeah, like there, I guess they're just
<v Speaker 1>collecting the pond. I mean, it makes sense, I guess.
<v Speaker 2>But oh that's interesting.
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever seen how bet are the how bet
<v Speaker 1>are the scoot a lot of the aggressive hybrid honey
<v Speaker 1>bees down there in southern California? Do you see them?
<v Speaker 3>No?
<v Speaker 2>Okay?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so okay, because I have lots of opinions about this.
<v Speaker 3>So someone actually genetically tested all of the honey bees
<v Speaker 3>in I think the western United States. They're at uc
<v Speaker 3>San Diego, and every single honeybee they tested is a
<v Speaker 3>mix of multiple European subspecies and one African subspecies. So
<v Speaker 3>the africanized bee thing, the aggression, it's not really a thing.
<v Speaker 3>It's basically the aggression is if they're domesticated versus not domesticated.
<v Speaker 2>So a lot of times.
<v Speaker 3>People will see these bees that like just resemble more
<v Speaker 3>so like the European ones and they're aggressive, but they'll
<v Speaker 3>call them the Africanized ones, when it's it's really just
<v Speaker 3>if they're out of nature, not because to survive they
<v Speaker 3>have to be more aggressive.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's I think. You know, wherever the genes for
<v Speaker 1>aggression come from, it's it's going to be filtered out,
<v Speaker 1>like it's going to be more adaptive, you know. So
<v Speaker 1>goddamn they're.
<v Speaker 2>Down all them like stronger families.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I mean yeah, so instead of like because yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I feel like the Africanized Church because it is really
<v Speaker 3>just like domesticated versus undomesticated. So I feel like just
<v Speaker 3>the Africanized terms a lot of time it kind of
<v Speaker 3>has like a racial connotation to it as well.
<v Speaker 2>Really they're the same species.
<v Speaker 1>Depending on who's using it. Yeah, you know, you get
<v Speaker 1>like fucking for sure. Pat Robertson talking about all those
<v Speaker 1>africolosts super predators. That was the term for super predators
<v Speaker 1>for like the early nineties, late eighties. MS. Oh god
<v Speaker 1>fucking a. But anyway, but but down here, I mean
<v Speaker 1>I've had friends get chased, friends who are herpers or
<v Speaker 1>or just even people. I mean, god damn, they'll come
<v Speaker 1>at you. Some of those aggressive colonies are just nuts. Man.
<v Speaker 1>It's like, you know, you're not even near the hive.
<v Speaker 1>You're like one hundred feet away and still one Oh.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah no, they can they can travel like you could.
<v Speaker 3>I think the farthest anyone is seen or on record
<v Speaker 3>is about two miles, like a two mile radius from
<v Speaker 3>a hive, so they can travel.
<v Speaker 1>Where do you know where the quote you know, African
<v Speaker 1>ecotype of APIs is it APIs Malifferan? Is that the honeybee?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where is it? Where in Africa? Is It's because
<v Speaker 1>Africa is a gigant. I mean it's like two United States.
<v Speaker 1>Is it South Africa or equatorial or where?
<v Speaker 2>You know? I don't know where that one specifically comes from.
<v Speaker 3>But what's interesting is there's, uh, there's multiple subspecies in Africa,
<v Speaker 3>and the one that's in the US is only one.
<v Speaker 2>Of the nine. But that's a really good question.
<v Speaker 3>I actually don't know where that specific subspecies comes from.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean it's just it's just ecotypes and different
<v Speaker 1>you know, different habitats select for different traits obviously among ecotypes. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>and certain habitats that would pay to be more aggressive,
<v Speaker 1>especially if you've got you know, bears or some other
<v Speaker 1>some other mammal.
<v Speaker 2>That's kid, you know, anything.
<v Speaker 1>About this is totally unrelated. But have you ever seen
<v Speaker 1>those videos of from Southeast Asia of guys going up
<v Speaker 1>in trees too?
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, yeah, with the giant honey bees?
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I have what species is that, you know?
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that's a good idea, a good question. I actually
<v Speaker 3>don't know what species it is.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I just know they're giant honey bees.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now I've seen this guy. He goes up like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, he's like one hundred and twenty feet up
<v Speaker 1>and like a very tropical for a very tropical looking forest,
<v Speaker 1>you know, And I presumably these things aren't. I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if they're not staying him or what. It's it's wild,
<v Speaker 1>but and then I've seen maybe they're used to it.
<v Speaker 1>To go on another unrelated tangent, the the stingless honeybees,
<v Speaker 1>like in Central America, that's wild. That's I didn't even
<v Speaker 1>know that was a thing. Like in parts of God
<v Speaker 1>et cetera.
<v Speaker 2>They're actually not bees.
<v Speaker 1>What what are they do? You know?
<v Speaker 2>There?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I guess just to clarify what a honey
<v Speaker 3>bee is, if it's not in the genus APIs, it's
<v Speaker 3>not a honey bee. So it's just a stainless bee
<v Speaker 3>that lives in a colony. But yeah, it's what's really
<v Speaker 3>interesting about those bees as well, is they're called stingless,
<v Speaker 3>but they actually have stingers. Their stingers are just too
<v Speaker 3>small distinct people.
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I wonder if you feel
<v Speaker 1>anything like a little tingle, you know, it's like it's a.
<v Speaker 2>It's a ticklar toley with its stinger.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I had there's a there's quite a few
<v Speaker 3>bees that actually have stingers that are too small to
<v Speaker 3>stint sting people. A lot of bees in the genus
<v Speaker 3>andrena And I've had an arena bee try to sting
<v Speaker 3>me and it literally just looked like it was like
<v Speaker 3>rubbing its like butt on me and nothing was happening.
<v Speaker 1>That's so cute. I like it. It's cute. Yeah. The
<v Speaker 1>do those the stingless bees are they when they form
<v Speaker 1>colonies like that? Are they presumable making honey? Which is
<v Speaker 1>I mean honey is just basically storage food correct.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean sort of.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so they are making honey. They're use social bees,
<v Speaker 3>so they live in a colony. There's a queen. But yeah,
<v Speaker 3>they store honey. So a lot of times people think
<v Speaker 3>of honey as just something honey bees make, but stainless
<v Speaker 3>bees can make it as well, so it can bumble bees.
<v Speaker 3>But really what it is is just nectar that's had
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the moisture evaporated out of it. So
<v Speaker 3>sometimes you'll even see solitary bees making their own personal
<v Speaker 3>like quote unquote honey. So they'll drink some honey. They
<v Speaker 3>have an internal crop while they's store it. But then
<v Speaker 3>when it's really hot out, they'll blow a bubble between
<v Speaker 3>their mandibles and it's called concentrating nectar. So they're just
<v Speaker 3>evaporating a lot of the moisture and giving themselves a
<v Speaker 3>really sweet treat.
<v Speaker 1>Wild. Okay, cool, that's good. Yeah, those those stingless bees.
<v Speaker 1>I saw them in Costa Rica and it was just
<v Speaker 1>how a sob blown away? Okay really, and then you
<v Speaker 1>think they're really cute there man, there's yeah, they're they're
<v Speaker 1>and it's just nice that they don't I mean, it's
<v Speaker 1>very pleasant that they don't attack you either.
<v Speaker 2>That's that's definitely very pleasant.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, okay, sweat bees, what's going on? What's going
<v Speaker 1>on here? Why do they Why do they do that?
<v Speaker 1>Are they just getting salt or what? Why do they are?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they collect salt from anything that sweats because they
<v Speaker 3>use the minerals for actually I don't know what they
<v Speaker 3>use it for exactly, but yeah, you'll find there's quite
<v Speaker 3>a few general bees that collect salts for the minerals.
<v Speaker 1>And Helictity is the family held today. Yeah, helictorday Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>okay cool, yeah yeah yeah, those same they're always like
<v Speaker 1>we're not always, but you'll see some really cool metallic
<v Speaker 1>ones sometimes that I've encountered, and yeah, they just land
<v Speaker 1>on you and hang out and then it kind of
<v Speaker 1>feels like, you know this slight like tickling sensation that
<v Speaker 1>they take.
<v Speaker 3>I think they're really sweet and it's it's a great
<v Speaker 3>way to attract a lot of like little bees. And
<v Speaker 3>if you want to photograph them, like sometimes we'll just
<v Speaker 3>hang out on your hands, so that's like a good
<v Speaker 3>a good place to photograph them or on your hand
<v Speaker 3>or wherever.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're really cute.
<v Speaker 1>And then you glossing bees the perfume. The males collect
<v Speaker 1>a perfume, right, like a fragrance. I learned about bees
<v Speaker 1>because there's a there was an orchid called stan Hopia
<v Speaker 1>that we get in an l Clow Biosphere reserve in the
<v Speaker 1>Sierra Madre on the east side where it's rainier and wetter,
<v Speaker 1>a little bit south of me. And you know, stan
<v Speaker 1>Hopia is like an epiphytic OrCAD the flowers from the bottom.
<v Speaker 1>These really fucking and beautiful flowers. My friend Martin Grantham
<v Speaker 1>used to grow them in Emoryville and he would, uh
<v Speaker 1>and so he would he was telling me, He's like, oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>these really incredible bees pollinate this thing. It's one of
<v Speaker 1>these scent collecting bees. What so do all all you
<v Speaker 1>glossing bees do that? I mean, what do you know
<v Speaker 1>much about that? I assume it's a family or is it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's actually it's a really cool bee.
<v Speaker 3>So it's the males who collect sense actually, and I
<v Speaker 3>the very first time I ran into them was actually
<v Speaker 3>in Columbia. I actually know that was the second time. Sorry,
<v Speaker 3>but really cool experience. So what the males do is
<v Speaker 3>they actually go around to anything scented, like orchids. But
<v Speaker 3>I actually was with a guide who had insect repellent
<v Speaker 3>on and the males were coming up from like meters
<v Speaker 3>away to collect the insect repellent because I couldn't smell anything,
<v Speaker 3>but they were picking up something. So basically what they'll
<v Speaker 3>do is they'll they'll collect a bunch of scents, they'll
<v Speaker 3>make their own sort of cologne, and then they'll rub
<v Speaker 3>it on like maybe a branch or a tree something,
<v Speaker 3>and then they'll try to attract females with the scent,
<v Speaker 3>and then if a female shows up, they'll do a
<v Speaker 3>little mating dance. They're like, oh, I smell good and
<v Speaker 3>I can also dance really well, and then hopefully they
<v Speaker 3>get to mate with the females.
<v Speaker 1>God, that's wild. How does something like that evolve? It's
<v Speaker 1>so cool. It's so cool.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like sometimes I just look at these things because
<v Speaker 2>they're so specific and it's just.
<v Speaker 3>It's so interesting too. I don't know, I would love
<v Speaker 3>to see like how that started. Because also the dancing too,
<v Speaker 3>because like sometimes with bees, if you pay attention to
<v Speaker 3>them at the beginning of the season, like buzz pollination
<v Speaker 3>is a really good example.
<v Speaker 2>You'll see bumble bees, for example.
<v Speaker 3>Visiting night shade flowers like tomatoes, and they they're horrible
<v Speaker 3>at buzz pollination, but if you keep watching them throughout
<v Speaker 3>their season, they get better. So I wonder if like
<v Speaker 3>maybe the orchid bees or that you glossing bees, they
<v Speaker 3>get better at dancing throughout their season.
<v Speaker 1>So what's up with the dancing and how many different
<v Speaker 1>bee genera and families do that?
<v Speaker 3>Oh, you know, it's only the the orchid bees that
<v Speaker 3>I know of that do the dancing. There's other bees
<v Speaker 3>I know that release the males release pheromones. Yeah, it's
<v Speaker 3>just the orchid bees I know of that dance.
<v Speaker 1>So you've been, but you've so, you've been all over
<v Speaker 1>looking at Yeah. Yeah, the hymenoptra. Yes, these specifically him
<v Speaker 1>an optraa. Is that an order of family? It's an order, right,
<v Speaker 1>that's an Yeah, I should know these things being a bonus,
<v Speaker 1>but I don't, you know whatever. Yeah, yeah, it's early
<v Speaker 1>in the morning, you know. But so where where all
<v Speaker 1>have you been? And where's your favorite place?
<v Speaker 3>So I've been to Belize, Columbia, Australia, Mexico. But yeah,
<v Speaker 3>my favorite place is in Broome, Australia, which is in
<v Speaker 3>Western Australia.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Western Australia is incredible, very similar climate to California too.
<v Speaker 2>You know what.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I love Mediterranean ecosystems, like I would love to
<v Speaker 3>visit every Mediterranean ecosystem in the world.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm curious about the bees in Chile too. Chile
<v Speaker 1>is probably one of my favorite places. I think it's
<v Speaker 1>just and again it parallels California. You've got these fog
<v Speaker 1>fog deserts closer to the equator, and then as you
<v Speaker 1>go south away from the equator, you start getting it's
<v Speaker 1>just like going up the California coast, you know, until
<v Speaker 1>your temper rainforest way down at the south.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And they have some like just interesting looking bees there,
<v Speaker 3>Like there's some bees that just that their middle leg
<v Speaker 3>is just so ridiculously long that it seems like they
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how they function with that, Like you
<v Speaker 3>just see them.
<v Speaker 1>What's that for? Is it for collecting pollen or something
<v Speaker 1>or what it's.
<v Speaker 3>It's it's usually on the males, and it's usually for
<v Speaker 3>grabbing the females when they're mating.
<v Speaker 1>Oh Jesus, oh my god, it's yeah, But why is
<v Speaker 1>it got to be so long?
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I feel like it's ridiculously long, like normally,
<v Speaker 3>I mean, the females are larger than the males, so
<v Speaker 3>I guess proportionately they have to wrap them around, but
<v Speaker 3>it just it seems still a little bit ridiculously long.
<v Speaker 3>And I've seen some of them just perched on flowers
<v Speaker 3>with their legs spread out, and then they have these
<v Speaker 3>middle legs that are just they look like tarantula legs
<v Speaker 3>without the hair.
<v Speaker 1>Like it's so it's like a sexual selection thing.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's is it is?
<v Speaker 1>What's what's an analogy in mammals? You know, like certain
<v Speaker 1>elk or something will get giant or what. I don't know,
<v Speaker 1>got the I can't think offhand, but yeah, you know
<v Speaker 1>these things that that you see that they're they're like
<v Speaker 1>totally counterintuitive structures and you're like, and then you learn, oh,
<v Speaker 1>that's just for mating. It's for mate selection or in birds,
<v Speaker 1>I guess too, a lot of birds. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>So there's actually a b in California desert that this
<v Speaker 3>was my first contribution to science.
<v Speaker 2>It's called a perdida innuda perdida.
<v Speaker 1>Let me break this down. How do you spell it p.
<v Speaker 3>E R D I T A Okay? And then the
<v Speaker 3>species is n A s.
<v Speaker 1>U t A perdida in the pseudo okay, dope, sorry,
<v Speaker 1>go ahead.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and it has a it has a relationship with
<v Speaker 3>I think it's called desert trumpet. It's areogonum inflato. Yes,
<v Speaker 3>it looks like yeah, oh.
<v Speaker 1>You know that was I fucking areagons? I love all yeah,
<v Speaker 1>O case good, Oh.
<v Speaker 2>My gosh, I love those.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, so I we got the first photos of
<v Speaker 3>a living representative of the species, I think in twenty
<v Speaker 3>twenty or yeah, twenty twenty. But the male has this
<v Speaker 3>clippiest feature that looks like a duck bill, and no
<v Speaker 3>one knew what it was for, and I ended up
<v Speaker 3>photographing them using it. But like, the male basically traps
<v Speaker 3>the females antennae on either side of his little clippist
<v Speaker 3>duck bill feature so she can't fly away, so he
<v Speaker 3>can try and mate with her. And these bees are
<v Speaker 3>like three to four millimeters. They're really small, and it's
<v Speaker 3>like it seems so violent, but they look like little
<v Speaker 3>fairies just fluttering around.
<v Speaker 1>Can you describe this?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so that was I got the first photos of
<v Speaker 3>living representatives and photographed the male using that facial feature.
<v Speaker 1>It's crazy, man, when you just start paying attention again
<v Speaker 1>this because I deal with this with my friend Alan,
<v Speaker 1>who's a my cologist. Him, him and his girlfriend Manny
<v Speaker 1>there and there. There's all these fungi species that have
<v Speaker 1>just never been described. Because you know, what's like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>the typically, what's that good for? What is it do?
<v Speaker 1>What kind? I hate it? You know?
<v Speaker 2>It's oh, yeah, like what's their purpose? Why should I care?
<v Speaker 1>Like buddy, you've got to zoom out a lot more
<v Speaker 1>than that. You know, you're thinking, if you're thinking on
<v Speaker 1>those terms, you know you got to zoom a lot.
<v Speaker 1>You need some context here get out of the human world.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but uh, yeah, no, I definitely feel that because,
<v Speaker 3>like that's one of the issues with especially being in militology,
<v Speaker 3>because you're most of the people are just working with
<v Speaker 3>native bees and there's not like a one to one
<v Speaker 3>benefit for people for saving the native bees as there
<v Speaker 3>is with like honey bees. People are like, oh, you
<v Speaker 3>can use honeybees and farming, and you can also get
<v Speaker 3>honey from them, so there's like a direct.
<v Speaker 2>You could see the profit directly.
<v Speaker 3>But with native bees, like they can disappear and they
<v Speaker 3>could be gone for maybe fifty years and then maybe
<v Speaker 3>we start to see some sort of impact, but we
<v Speaker 3>don't know it started with that that bee disappearing or
<v Speaker 3>that pollinator. So that's why it's so hard to get
<v Speaker 3>funding for this, because you have to kind of come
<v Speaker 3>up with logical reasoning for why these bees are important
<v Speaker 3>to people.
<v Speaker 1>I think it was you who made the analogy of
<v Speaker 1>a Jenga tower, was it you?
<v Speaker 2>It was, Yeah, Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>That's something I've been Yeah, I've been saying the same
<v Speaker 1>thing for years. It's like, yeah, you could. You can
<v Speaker 1>get by with a couple you take a couple of
<v Speaker 1>blocks out of that tower. Look, it's working fine, it's
<v Speaker 1>still standing. And then at some point you reach a
<v Speaker 1>critical a critical tipping point, you know, pun intended, where
<v Speaker 1>you take a block away and the whole thing collapses
<v Speaker 1>and now you're just you know, in terms of a biosphery, Well,
<v Speaker 1>now all you've got around is cattle and pigeons and
<v Speaker 1>feral cats and honey bees, and who wants to live
<v Speaker 1>in a world like that?
<v Speaker 3>Oh?
<v Speaker 1>We could just you know, if you don't go outside,
<v Speaker 1>I guess you're fine with it. But I just you know,
<v Speaker 1>we lived for the majority of our existence with this,
<v Speaker 1>you know, nurtured in this stuff, with these things all
<v Speaker 1>around us, and suddenly and it's a it's a part
<v Speaker 1>of our genome. And then suddenly you take it away.
<v Speaker 1>And now, how does you think that starts to affect
<v Speaker 1>our mental and emotional health, not to mention the living
<v Speaker 1>skin that we need to sustain life, you.
<v Speaker 4>Know, Wally, Yeah, no, I'm glad that you like agree
<v Speaker 4>with that Jenga reference, because I think it's a really
<v Speaker 4>good like symbolic yeah, set up for the ecosystem.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's works, it works perfectly. I mean what do
<v Speaker 1>you so what do you do when? I mean, how
<v Speaker 1>do you deal with that? Because it's got to be
<v Speaker 1>frustrating when you know people are like, well, well, well's
<v Speaker 1>the do Like what what's it going?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, it's it's interesting because I feel like for
<v Speaker 3>me personally because this is where like it was a
<v Speaker 3>hobby but now it's my career. I have to be
<v Speaker 3>really creative with funding sources, like some people, like one
<v Speaker 3>of my friends in Australia, she gets all of her
<v Speaker 3>funding from Patreon. I released a product line which actually
<v Speaker 3>funded me for years, which was my flash Cards. But yeah,
<v Speaker 3>basically I've started kind of trying to talk to people
<v Speaker 3>who are a little bit more well off and I
<v Speaker 3>present them the story of like the pretty da nsuda,
<v Speaker 3>who if that flower, the areagonum in flight them disappeared,
<v Speaker 3>the bee would disappear, and like all of these creatures
<v Speaker 3>on it as well, that seems to have the same
<v Speaker 3>symbiotic relationship with it. But them disappearing and not having
<v Speaker 3>a positive or negative impact on people doesn't mean that
<v Speaker 3>they aren't important.
<v Speaker 2>It is important to that ecosystem.
<v Speaker 3>And just the fact that they're here, that they evolved
<v Speaker 3>could be hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of years, that's
<v Speaker 3>a good enough reason to save them. To just care
<v Speaker 3>about things. Not everything should be so human centric.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's the problem we're all fighting, right, Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And even like the stingless bees, they're called stingless bees
<v Speaker 3>what they can sting, just not people.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, it's that anthropocentrisms that it's it's the problem, man,
<v Speaker 1>it's the main thing. And it's only possible because you know,
<v Speaker 1>technology has allowed us to live so far removed from
<v Speaker 1>everything and live this lie and where we think we
<v Speaker 1>don't need it.
<v Speaker 2>You know.
<v Speaker 1>It's like, well, it's so fun. We could just live
<v Speaker 1>in a can in the ground and live, you know,
<v Speaker 1>live on our rations. That's totally fine. Like that's that's insane,
<v Speaker 1>Like that's insane. We could just drive everywhere and pave everything.
<v Speaker 1>Everything's a parking lot so that we never have to walk,
<v Speaker 1>you know. And you see that same mentality too. It's
<v Speaker 1>that's why it's it's so important to get people's asses
<v Speaker 1>outside and not all this not the straill, the habitat
<v Speaker 1>in the first place, so that they can experience it.
<v Speaker 1>I mean exactly, it's crazy. I live in Texas where
<v Speaker 1>it's really bad. All the land is private, and the
<v Speaker 1>driving culture here is even worse than southern California. So
<v Speaker 1>you're just stuck in a car. Oh yeah, yeah, you're
<v Speaker 1>stuck in a car the whole time. And they build
<v Speaker 1>these freeway ramps that look like spaghetti bowls, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and they're just that whole thing. One more lane, Just
<v Speaker 1>one more lane, bro, that's all it's gonna take. Just
<v Speaker 1>we just build one more lane and the traffic will
<v Speaker 1>go down. And it's like it's totally accurate. Yeah, it's
<v Speaker 1>not what reduces traffic. What reduces What would reduce traffic
<v Speaker 1>is when you've got a bottleneck, everyone slows down a
<v Speaker 1>little bit to it's just so that you don't have
<v Speaker 1>to end backing up five miles down, you know, up
<v Speaker 1>the road. But of course that's not people aren't people
<v Speaker 1>aren't smart enough the institute anyway, So you know, so
<v Speaker 1>you end up you grow up in these places where
<v Speaker 1>you can't kids can't go outside, they can't just go
<v Speaker 1>throw sticks and rocks at each other. Look under you know,
<v Speaker 1>rocks for bogs and go find cool stuff and climb trees.
<v Speaker 1>They're just stuck insides there and it's screens or stuck
<v Speaker 1>in the car or whatever. So that's why it was
<v Speaker 1>so nice being back in California. Public land everywhere and
<v Speaker 1>people who are interested in this stuff. And you know,
<v Speaker 1>but but that could be anywhere, so anyway, so we
<v Speaker 1>just have to make a tweak, make a couple of
<v Speaker 1>tweaks and the way we do things, so hopefully we'll
<v Speaker 1>get there.
<v Speaker 2>Something.
<v Speaker 3>I do think that this introducing kids stood outdoors when
<v Speaker 3>they're young and then letting them like pick whatever it
<v Speaker 3>is they like and just be very fascinated by it. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I think just a great way to because honestly, with me,
<v Speaker 3>that was that was what started with me, because I
<v Speaker 3>remember as a toddler, like my yard was nature and
<v Speaker 3>it was literally just a green lawn and and then
<v Speaker 3>there was a rose bush, but the rose bush attracted
<v Speaker 3>like ladybugs and box celder bugs. So that was like
<v Speaker 3>my whole world of nature and then obviously expanded a
<v Speaker 3>little bit.
<v Speaker 1>But God, where I lived, I used to in the
<v Speaker 1>suburbs of Chicago, Man, I used to get excited if
<v Speaker 1>i'd see a fucking toad. It was like wow, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and that should be common, like toads should be everywhere.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I think with kids, just get their asses outside,
<v Speaker 1>let them play with rocks, you know, uh, minimize the hazards,
<v Speaker 1>but get them outside and create like a fun place
<v Speaker 1>for them to hang out. Like I always meet these
<v Speaker 1>mostly suburban men who were like, I got the lawn
<v Speaker 1>for the kids. It's like, really, the kids like hanging
<v Speaker 1>out in the lung. What are they gonna do in
<v Speaker 1>the lung? You can sit there at noon on a
<v Speaker 1>July day and just roast like no man. When I
<v Speaker 1>was a kid, I wanted to go play in the
<v Speaker 1>alleys or climb the trees, or hop fences or look
<v Speaker 1>for the fun stuff. So I think just getting kids
<v Speaker 1>out there if I ever minimize the cursing. And I
<v Speaker 1>would like to do this at some point, maybe I
<v Speaker 1>have like a crime paced children's children's like botany program.
<v Speaker 1>I'd have to maybe do some rebranding, you know. I
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you could use crime pas, but that
<v Speaker 1>would be fun. I mean, just because that's when I
<v Speaker 1>feel most hopeful is watching kids get excited about anyone
<v Speaker 1>really get excited about the life around them.
<v Speaker 3>You know, want me too, honestly, like I I And
<v Speaker 3>also kids ask like some amazingly tough questions. Sometimes they
<v Speaker 3>think about things in ways that I haven't thought of,
<v Speaker 3>and I feel like it expands It helps me expand
<v Speaker 3>my knowledge as well, just because they're so open to things. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, I just I do like enjoy teaching kids
<v Speaker 3>like adults as well.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's just different.
<v Speaker 1>I like anybody who wants to yeah, who wants to
<v Speaker 1>just stuff, But I feel like them, you definitely got
<v Speaker 1>to get them young, man, Like you got to get
<v Speaker 1>them young before the fire in their eyes dies, before
<v Speaker 1>they start losing interest in things like roly polies, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, yeah you know what too. I don't.
<v Speaker 2>I definitely haven't talked to you about this at all.
<v Speaker 3>But like, so, when I was kid, my things were
<v Speaker 3>like nature and photography.
<v Speaker 2>But then as you.
<v Speaker 3>Get older, they're like, oh, you have to be a
<v Speaker 3>realistic about your goals. So then I went to school
<v Speaker 3>for a little bit, and then I got jobs in finance,
<v Speaker 3>and I was literally sitting behind a desk where I
<v Speaker 3>could predict like three months from now. On a Monday,
<v Speaker 3>at two pm, exactly what I would be doing, and
<v Speaker 3>I just felt myself getting like dumber and kind of
<v Speaker 3>like dying inside.
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, I was making.
<v Speaker 3>Like more money than I'd ever made, So it was
<v Speaker 3>just this I basically didn't have anything to do but
<v Speaker 3>think about work. And then I just when I kind
<v Speaker 3>of like felt myself dying inside, I was like, you know,
<v Speaker 3>I used to like to draw and I used to
<v Speaker 3>like to go outside. So I started drawing again, and
<v Speaker 3>I started going outside again, and it kind of just
<v Speaker 3>re lit this fire in me. But it's it's also
<v Speaker 3>kind of a thing of privilege, because I feel like
<v Speaker 3>in the US, I think they say, what is it?
<v Speaker 2>People are like.
<v Speaker 3>Two paychecks away from not being able to pay any
<v Speaker 3>of their bills, which is happening to a lot.
<v Speaker 1>Of people economy. I thought Trump was gonna fix it,
<v Speaker 1>especially in this economy. I mean. But that's the thing though, too,
<v Speaker 1>is like it's so and I've been there when I
<v Speaker 1>was fucking working for the railroad. I'd come home and
<v Speaker 1>I'd be like, oh God, I just want to fucking
<v Speaker 1>eat and watch a movie. But then I probably have
<v Speaker 1>to force myself because I'd be like, man, if I
<v Speaker 1>just sit and watch that fucking movie like it's gonna
<v Speaker 1>be maybe nice, it'll trigger some dopamine, but it's just
<v Speaker 1>gonna my brain. My brain's gonna atrophy, and it's not
<v Speaker 1>gonna be as good for me as if I force
<v Speaker 1>myself to draw. So I'm gonna sit my ass in
<v Speaker 1>the desk and even if I'm just twiddling my thumbs
<v Speaker 1>for the first ten minutes, I'm gonna force myself to draw.
<v Speaker 1>That's gonna be more rewarding. Or to play piano. Teach
<v Speaker 1>myself piano.
<v Speaker 2>Trigger something in you too?
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, and I also feel too, like what I
<v Speaker 3>was saying kind of about the paycheck thing is I
<v Speaker 3>feel like it is a privilege to have a hobby
<v Speaker 3>because not everyone's afforded that time to just like sit
<v Speaker 3>down and watch TV.
<v Speaker 2>Ye like you could.
<v Speaker 1>I get, No, I get that if you've got kids, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>but I don't. I don't think it's good to get
<v Speaker 1>you know, people any more self flatulating than they are
<v Speaker 1>like feeling guilty for you know, oh I can't believe.
<v Speaker 2>I know.
<v Speaker 3>Definitely don't want them to feel like guilty because yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I mean everyone has like because I feel like when
<v Speaker 3>you do say privileges. Sometimes people are like, oh, but
<v Speaker 3>I'm still struggling. I just mean, like the fact that
<v Speaker 3>you don't have to overcome this hurdle that other people
<v Speaker 3>do possibly to be able to have like hobbies or
<v Speaker 3>like camera equipment's expensive too, to even like be able to.
<v Speaker 1>Forward that Yeah, definitely that yeah, yeah, but I mean
<v Speaker 1>you know it's like for me, especially that you know,
<v Speaker 1>scam time off work that was something mind it a lot.
<v Speaker 1>I would like I would take advantage of my employer
<v Speaker 1>all the time, and I didn't feel bad because it
<v Speaker 1>was a shitty multinational corporation. So I would, yeah do it,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I would. I would. I would research bodany
<v Speaker 1>at work. I would take textbooks to work and steal
<v Speaker 1>as much time as possible, like, fuck you man, this
<v Speaker 1>is my time, and you know this is my time.
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to use this, you know, because because they
<v Speaker 1>would try to find like, well, we're going to find
<v Speaker 1>busy work for you, but you know, on that level, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>the bid yeah, like we're gon, we're gonna get our
<v Speaker 1>productivity out of you. Fuck you, and then I'm gonna
<v Speaker 1>go take a twenty minute shit and read you know,
<v Speaker 1>plant systematics on my phone. In the bedroom. Fuck face.
<v Speaker 1>But but I think you know, people will ask me,
<v Speaker 1>especially in the United States, because it's so increasingly dystopian here,
<v Speaker 1>what should I do? Should I go into Should I
<v Speaker 1>go to school for this? And I tell them, fuck no,
<v Speaker 1>you should go to a community college for two years
<v Speaker 1>because that's cheaper, and then if you still want to
<v Speaker 1>stick with school, finish your two years off, get a
<v Speaker 1>professional degree whatever. You know. And but you've got to
<v Speaker 1>figure out a way to balance the passion and the
<v Speaker 1>and the quote hobby that's going to keep you alive
<v Speaker 1>and prevent you from killing yourself. And I'm only being
<v Speaker 1>half hyperbolic there. You've got to find a way to
<v Speaker 1>have that on one once one half the plate, and
<v Speaker 1>then also like a way to make money on the
<v Speaker 1>other half. So whether that's getting like an electrical engineering degree,
<v Speaker 1>going to a fucking trade school, working in finance, whatever,
<v Speaker 1>But don't let that little kid inside you die. Keep
<v Speaker 1>that half are great passionate live, you know, because the
<v Speaker 1>minute you fucking you just want to come home and
<v Speaker 1>look at Netflix. It's okay to do it once in
<v Speaker 1>a while, Manue you just want to come home and
<v Speaker 1>look at Netflix, and you don't care about your passions anymore.
<v Speaker 1>That's when they got you and they fucking all.
<v Speaker 2>It is it is.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then the thing too, I think that's great
<v Speaker 3>advice about college, and like also there's we have the
<v Speaker 3>internet now, which we can use for like YouTube videos.
<v Speaker 3>I taught myself how to use my camera by looking
<v Speaker 3>at YouTube and like that's how I learned photoshop and
<v Speaker 3>just talking to people, So like, yeah, yeah, you don't
<v Speaker 3>have to go these like old school routes where you
<v Speaker 3>went to a four year college that was like twenty
<v Speaker 3>plus thousand a year and just being in debt until
<v Speaker 3>you retire.
<v Speaker 2>If you can retire.
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, twenty thousand, there's try fifty thousands. Some of
<v Speaker 1>these fucking schools are insane and they're like mafia is
<v Speaker 1>it's uh, you know, sorry you were.
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, no, you know, I was agreeing with you.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, it's just I don't know. I just I
<v Speaker 3>feel like like when you're eighteen, they start you can
<v Speaker 3>get credit cards in the mail, and they're like, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>it's time for you to have debt, and then you
<v Speaker 3>can get multiple kinds of debt with interests that you're
<v Speaker 3>paying off for the rest of your life. But Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>if you're able to teach yourself, if you're able to
<v Speaker 3>go to a community college for two years. And then
<v Speaker 3>there's also you can get grants for your colleges as
<v Speaker 3>well too, for different things you're researching, so you can
<v Speaker 3>help offset a lot of the costs.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you find ways, you find ways to make
<v Speaker 1>it work on lower note dollars. You really, you really can't.
<v Speaker 1>It's going to be harder, it's going to be tricky.
<v Speaker 1>You're going to have to be a little bit more
<v Speaker 1>witty than other you know, other people may have to
<v Speaker 1>be who have have rich parents or whatever. But you
<v Speaker 1>can make it work. And it's just you just can't. Again,
<v Speaker 1>you can't let that kid inside you die, because that's
<v Speaker 1>what they want. When I say they, I mean the
<v Speaker 1>people that own, you know, the society we live in,
<v Speaker 1>the owners, the fucking ruling class, whatever you want to call,
<v Speaker 1>the people that own, the politicians. Because when you're dead
<v Speaker 1>on the inside, you're willing to eat more shit and
<v Speaker 1>work for whatever. Take whatever they put on the plate
<v Speaker 1>in front of you, and just fucking keep your head down,
<v Speaker 1>be good, take a little pat on the head, and
<v Speaker 1>don't make noise. And that's what they want, you know,
<v Speaker 1>don't do it, keep alives, steal from your job too,
<v Speaker 1>at least if your employers are.
<v Speaker 2>Ship depending on who it is that publicly but.
<v Speaker 1>I see it, but well you can't. But I don't.
<v Speaker 1>I've done out of a reputation to lose anyway, But
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean, some corporations are great, like
<v Speaker 1>my company I worked for Union Pacific World. They were men,
<v Speaker 1>they were like. Everybody hated them that despite you know,
<v Speaker 1>cultural background politics. Everybody hated the fucking railroad because they
<v Speaker 1>just treated us like shit. They were out there spying
<v Speaker 1>on us. I mean, just antagonistic, like why would you
<v Speaker 1>why would you behave like that towards your employees. Don't
<v Speaker 1>you want them to like you and have a little
<v Speaker 1>bit of loyalty. Nobody did. Nobody had loyalty.
<v Speaker 2>I think it's just lack of choice. So people like
<v Speaker 2>I could treat you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's it's like a tough guy mentality, like
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's morons and bullies, very similar to the
<v Speaker 1>current administration. It was very similar, you know ways. But anyway,
<v Speaker 1>so okay, well let's let's get back to to bees.
<v Speaker 1>Then we didn't even talk about buzz pollination. Except for
<v Speaker 1>a minute. That's the thing that is fucking dope. Melastoma
<v Speaker 1>tase the family. I don't think you get any native
<v Speaker 1>melastomes in California, but they're super abundant in the tropics,
<v Speaker 1>and you get Rexia in the southeastern United States. Dope
<v Speaker 1>fucking family. A lot of them are buzz pollinated. You'd
<v Speaker 1>get arctostaphlos A taxa, a genus of ninety six taxa. Uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know, species and subspecies in California. I mean, the
<v Speaker 1>arc the manzaneda diversity in California is fucking amazing. Oh
<v Speaker 1>they're so oh god, it's like you know, and there
<v Speaker 1>there's so there's just so much diversity, and it's a lot
<v Speaker 1>of endangered species and whatever. But for manzanitas, you know,
<v Speaker 1>buzz pollination. How many bees are associated with manzanita's only,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I guess you just just go off, just
<v Speaker 1>go off on bees man's and kneas.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So, like one of the early season bees and
<v Speaker 3>that I bumblebees that I see on this specifically is
<v Speaker 3>Bomba smillan opigus And literally that's that's the main bumblebe
<v Speaker 3>I see on there. But also there's a lot of
<v Speaker 3>Hylaeus bees, which are the mass bees. They have like
<v Speaker 3>the white or yellow sometimes structures on their face. I
<v Speaker 3>see a lot of oh I've seen mega kaylie on them.
<v Speaker 2>Have I seen you know what?
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I've seen even melisotas on them, which
<v Speaker 3>are the longhorned bees. See a lot of sweat bees
<v Speaker 3>on them. So you see like holictus and lastly glossom.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I think it's a really good like early
<v Speaker 3>season pollinator plant. But yeah, and you know what's great
<v Speaker 3>about it too is it's like something you could have
<v Speaker 3>in your yard too.
<v Speaker 2>But I think it's great.
<v Speaker 1>But these I mean because for buzz pollination, I think
<v Speaker 1>almost always you're dealing with porous cityal anths, something called
<v Speaker 1>porocidal anths. So anthers of course on the flower are
<v Speaker 1>what released the pollen. And when they're porous cidal, they've
<v Speaker 1>got a poor at the distal end or I think
<v Speaker 1>maybe it man's. I think maybe a man's and needed
<v Speaker 1>I don't. I have to look at the photos of
<v Speaker 1>macro shots of mans and needa anths that I have.
<v Speaker 1>But you've got these little holes and so want to
<v Speaker 1>be vibrates, right, that's that a certain amount of AE
<v Speaker 1>comes out, and so I think exactly are all arctostaphalos
<v Speaker 1>buzz pollinated?
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's a good question. I'm actually not sure. Normally,
<v Speaker 3>when I see it in California, it's in nightshade plans,
<v Speaker 3>So like tomatoes, I don't know if all of the.
<v Speaker 1>It says I just asked the oracle. Uh, not all
<v Speaker 1>arctostaphalos are buzz pollinated, but the vast majority relying it, the.
<v Speaker 3>Vast majority are Oh okay, well I just learned something new.
<v Speaker 2>Se me too.
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was all of them maybe, but either way.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but like solanum flowers like tomato flowers, and
<v Speaker 1>that's they always do the thing where you could take
<v Speaker 1>a tuning fork and you hold on.
<v Speaker 2>I've done that, you know what.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And the Sea is I think the best one
<v Speaker 3>I've gotten, really good, like poll and.
<v Speaker 2>Release with getting the C.
<v Speaker 1>Note one and the note of C.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because I've been gone around and like I've tried,
<v Speaker 3>I got like a whole like I don't know what
<v Speaker 3>they're called, like keys. Is it like when you get
<v Speaker 3>like a whole row of letter I'm not useful, but
<v Speaker 3>whatever that's called. Yeah, Sea was the best for me.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, and it's interesting too because like there's actually
<v Speaker 3>bees and all six of the families that are in
<v Speaker 3>the US can buzz pollinate.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's cool.
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's good.
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's saying here, this is interesting, and this is
<v Speaker 1>according to the Google it's saying honey bees are often
<v Speaker 1>unable to buzz pollinate. Man's the need is effectively makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>They evolved.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they don't bush pollinate at all.
<v Speaker 1>Actually, and they may act as nectar robbers by biting
<v Speaker 1>whole in the signs that a flowers to steal nectar
<v Speaker 1>without pieing them.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they do that as well. There's actually a few
<v Speaker 3>bees that do that. Carpenter bees do it as well.
<v Speaker 3>There's wasps that you see to do that also. So yeah,
<v Speaker 3>you can see holes in the side of the little
<v Speaker 3>flowers at the base, so they just stick their tongue
<v Speaker 3>in and they're like, I'm not going to pollinate you
<v Speaker 3>at all, I'm just going to steal.
<v Speaker 2>All of your necar.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, that's funny. Man. What's up with leaf cutters?
<v Speaker 1>What are they doing?
<v Speaker 3>They're like actually cutting leaves, so they like larger flat
<v Speaker 3>leaves like red butter is a really great tree for this,
<v Speaker 3>So they'll actually the females will go to the edge
<v Speaker 3>of the leaf, they'll cut a little crescent shape out
<v Speaker 3>of the leaf, and then they'll roll it up, fly it,
<v Speaker 3>carrying it with their legs, fly it back to their
<v Speaker 3>little burrow that they've created, so they'll mess in like
<v Speaker 3>pippy plant stems, like plants that have really soft sinner.
<v Speaker 3>They'll excavate it and they'll actually the inside of the
<v Speaker 3>burrow that they created with these leaves, and then they'll
<v Speaker 3>create little cells in them, and each cell they'll have
<v Speaker 3>an egg and a ballen for the developing b to damn.
<v Speaker 1>That's so they're so they're basically using them as like cells, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>like to like create like a stable wall. Does the
<v Speaker 1>larva eat the leaf at all?
<v Speaker 2>No, they don't. They eat the pollen.
<v Speaker 1>Oh shit, that's cool.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And there's some that are actually like they just
<v Speaker 3>mega kylie are known for like leaf cutters, but there's
<v Speaker 3>also resin bees, and there's also petal cutters, so other
<v Speaker 3>ones will cut cresting shapes out of like petals.
<v Speaker 1>So did this trade are all the oral leaf cutter bees?
<v Speaker 2>Like?
<v Speaker 1>Is that a monophyletic group?
<v Speaker 2>Like?
<v Speaker 1>Is it a family, or has it evolved independently in
<v Speaker 1>a number of different families.
<v Speaker 2>So it's it's in one family.
<v Speaker 3>It's in the Mega kaiwa da family, but it's specifically
<v Speaker 3>bees in the Mega Kili genus. But not all bees
<v Speaker 3>in the Mega Kayli genus are leaf cutter bees.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay? And are there bees? Are there leaf cutters
<v Speaker 1>and other genera? I'm gonna say no, oh wow, So
<v Speaker 1>it's mega Okay, cool?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but there are also there's a lot of genera
<v Speaker 3>in the world, and I'm most familiar with the United States,
<v Speaker 3>but from the places I've traveled to, I haven't seen
<v Speaker 3>this in another genus. Okay, yeah, I think it's just
<v Speaker 3>mega highway.
<v Speaker 1>Well for all intents and purposes where we are, and
<v Speaker 1>that's good enough. Okay, Let's talk about cactus bees because
<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, in South Texas. I live right
<v Speaker 1>in the fucking Mexican border. Rainosa has a garbage fire.
<v Speaker 1>I could smell the plastic at night. It's a wonderful
<v Speaker 1>frag It smells very carcinogenic. But I'm in a very
<v Speaker 1>understudied area, and especially I'm in the native habitat of
<v Speaker 1>some really cool cactus species like Medalariospherica, astrophytem Asterious, and Payote,
<v Speaker 1>and there have been Lafaferra Williamsy and there have been
<v Speaker 1>very few studies into the ecology of many of these plants,
<v Speaker 1>especially Payote. Everyone who studies Payoti is always you know,
<v Speaker 1>ethnobody or oh the mescalin, et cetera, which to me
<v Speaker 1>is the least interesting thing about it. It's interesting, but
<v Speaker 1>it's not as interesting as creating a plant that is
<v Speaker 1>effectively a giant D cell battery with a spineless blue
<v Speaker 1>top that can grow in some of the fucking hottest
<v Speaker 1>areas anywhere, like where I live. It's insanely hot. It's
<v Speaker 1>hotter than Phoenix. Phoenix has individually hotter days it'll be
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifteen degrees. But it's also very arid.
<v Speaker 1>It cools off a little bit at night, and they
<v Speaker 1>get very chilly winters. We don't get chili winters. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>February cools that. Maybe we'll get two hours of a
<v Speaker 1>freeze in February, but that's only because the climate change
<v Speaker 1>has made the jet stream all fucked up, and we
<v Speaker 1>get these vortexes that dip down and used to not
<v Speaker 1>really freeze here much so I'm really interested in things
<v Speaker 1>like what's what I find on payote flowers that are
<v Speaker 1>conservation property or astro fight them. And then I learned,
<v Speaker 1>especially in some of the and the opuntias go off,
<v Speaker 1>we get these massive prickly pairs here. They can get
<v Speaker 1>like ten feet tall, some of them really. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 1>they've got a puntia a lotta or maybe is it alta.
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of or alta apuntia anglomani I a
<v Speaker 1>bunch of different ones. And god, they've got some mean
<v Speaker 1>glockets on them, you know, those little fibers that come
<v Speaker 1>out of the aerial too, Like, yeah, have.
<v Speaker 2>You ever tried to eat them? Or are you just
<v Speaker 2>like them?
<v Speaker 1>The tunas are the nopolis? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you
<v Speaker 1>can eat the tunas. Yeah, they're and they're good. They're
<v Speaker 1>filled with betel an pigments and vitamin C see if
<v Speaker 1>you get them at the right time. But but I
<v Speaker 1>actually had this guy on two weeks ago who had
<v Speaker 1>this and he's a four. He does paleo foraging and
<v Speaker 1>like American Indian ethnobotany, and he he's got this ingenious
<v Speaker 1>method for like holding, you know, creating two prongs out
<v Speaker 1>of a stick and then using grass to like brush
<v Speaker 1>the glockets off and it works really good. Oh really,
<v Speaker 1>I love yeah, and I love tunas man. I mean
<v Speaker 1>if you get like tunas from Ficus indica, like the
<v Speaker 1>fruit from a point, the Aphycus indica, they're fucking you
<v Speaker 1>put them in the fridge, cool them off, and then
<v Speaker 1>you know, peel the skin off and there's god, they're
<v Speaker 1>so good.
<v Speaker 2>Man.
<v Speaker 1>It's like one of my favorite fruits. But when our
<v Speaker 1>native prickly pears flower man, they are just they're like
<v Speaker 1>covered in some cool bees and we get these really
<v Speaker 1>cool Euphoria beetles. That's the genus name. So I'm going
<v Speaker 1>on a rant the right because I just love thinking
<v Speaker 1>about this. Sorry, but but I didn't learn I just
<v Speaker 1>learned that, like cactus bees are a thing. Is this
<v Speaker 1>a family or what is this.
<v Speaker 2>Sort of a family.
<v Speaker 3>So they're the cactus bees are in the epha day family,
<v Speaker 3>but they're multiple genera. So the most common one is Diadasia,
<v Speaker 3>and those are typically the ones that are referred to
<v Speaker 3>as cactus bees. But there's also Anthopra as well. Yes
<v Speaker 3>that will yeah, that will visit them. But yeah, so
<v Speaker 3>this is the these are really cool flowers because these
<v Speaker 3>are flowers that open and close with the sun, and
<v Speaker 3>the females will collect pollen exclusively from these flowers. And
<v Speaker 3>because the females are visiting them, the males obviously are like,
<v Speaker 3>let's definitely show up all the time and sleep there.
<v Speaker 3>So the males will actually you'll see groups of them
<v Speaker 3>actually going into the flowers before they close in the evening,
<v Speaker 3>and then when the sun rises in the morning, the
<v Speaker 3>males will fly out.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, there's a lot of bees that visit.
<v Speaker 3>Them in the desert.
<v Speaker 2>Here.
<v Speaker 3>We have some mega andrina, but you'll also see some agapastamon.
<v Speaker 3>You'll see a lot of I've seen melisotis again, the
<v Speaker 3>longhorned bees visiting them. But yeah, it's mainly the Diadetia
<v Speaker 3>that people associate with cactuses.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, god, that's cool. Yeah, I'm looking at my
<v Speaker 1>i ad observations. I got to send you this later too.
<v Speaker 1>If you can throw some IDs on these, i'd appreciate
<v Speaker 1>it for sure. Yeah, there's a perdida here too. I'm
<v Speaker 1>looking at what is there, But I'll see these things
<v Speaker 1>passed out and in flowers, Like we got a cactus
<v Speaker 1>here called horse crippler which is related to the cotton
<v Speaker 1>top cactus. You get the same genus homolo cephala. You
<v Speaker 1>get out into Mahave and I'll see things, you know,
<v Speaker 1>when they're flowering. I'll see bees just passed out in there,
<v Speaker 1>looking like, you know, a drunk.
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean this looks really comfortable.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, that perdida actually could be really interesting because
<v Speaker 3>like a lot of times, with perdida, you can actually
<v Speaker 3>identify them to species based on the flower that they're in.
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, tag me on that one. I would love
<v Speaker 2>to try an idea.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was on Camas Sarachas ordita. You know, I
<v Speaker 1>missed my old camera. I got this Nikon Z seven.
<v Speaker 1>It's a fucking pain in the ass. I used to
<v Speaker 1>use a Nikon D seventy five hundred, which is like
<v Speaker 1>a beginner dsl R with the pop up flash. But
<v Speaker 1>that pop up flash was at the perfect angle to
<v Speaker 1>hit hit nerless. Because I can't find one, that's gotta good,
<v Speaker 1>I just I ordered one of those Signas Tech diffusers.
<v Speaker 1>But oh yeah, the camera I used to use was
<v Speaker 1>it's so perfect. It's just the sensor wasn't as big
<v Speaker 1>as on the mirror list. But like that pop up
<v Speaker 1>flash was in almost all the time, strong enough I
<v Speaker 1>didn't even need a speed light, you know, and I
<v Speaker 1>can get such good quality images And having a pop
<v Speaker 1>up flash is so much nicer than a speed light because,
<v Speaker 1>as I'm sure you know, photographing insects, the speed light
<v Speaker 1>is way way higher than you need it to be.
<v Speaker 2>It's just not it is a little bit high, you
<v Speaker 2>know what.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, next time I see you, we'll do like a
<v Speaker 3>photography adventure together. So like any issues you have just
<v Speaker 3>asked me questions. I know, it's like the camera is
<v Speaker 3>so much heavier, it's more umnient. But yeah, we can
<v Speaker 3>take photos that.
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna warn you. I'm gonna forewarn you you're gonna
<v Speaker 1>hear me cursing a lot and screaming to myself and
<v Speaker 1>throwing a tantrum because that's what it's like, especially with
<v Speaker 1>this new camera. It's like I got to take fifteen
<v Speaker 1>photos before I get what I like.
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's kind of what I would have expected
<v Speaker 2>from you. So that's that's completely flying.
<v Speaker 1>Goddamn. Yeah, that's it's just lots of that. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>you'll hear you'll hear profanity, combinations you didn't even know,
<v Speaker 1>it could be used in conjunction with each.
<v Speaker 3>Other, so that could be impressive. And if we're out
<v Speaker 3>in the desert too, that's gonna echo for pretty farch.
<v Speaker 3>So I'm sure like the whole galley could. I would
<v Speaker 3>love hearing you.
<v Speaker 1>Get a ball gag or something, so I won't you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally fly with that, yeah in your pocket.
<v Speaker 1>But but anyway, Yeah, so what do you do for
<v Speaker 1>for photography? How do you get these How do you
<v Speaker 1>get good depth the feel with light? And how do
<v Speaker 1>you get I mean, and then how do you try
<v Speaker 1>do you camera? How do you photograph these things? You
<v Speaker 1>just got to wait around and and be there at
<v Speaker 1>the right time or what.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think like the big thing is understanding their behavior.
<v Speaker 3>So that just means sitting with them for a while.
<v Speaker 3>So when you're with them for a while, you just
<v Speaker 3>start to notice that they have routines just like people.
<v Speaker 3>So let's say they're on a flower that's like on
<v Speaker 3>a single stoff and there's a bunch of flowers around it,
<v Speaker 3>like maybe like a loopin or a penstament something like that.
<v Speaker 3>You'll actually see a lot of the female bees. They'll
<v Speaker 3>start at the lower flowers and then they'll circle around
<v Speaker 3>them and go higher and hire as the flowers go up,
<v Speaker 3>So you can actually position yourself at a flower that
<v Speaker 3>you think is esthetically pleasing and photograph them.
<v Speaker 2>There. Also male bees, they have like a certain.
<v Speaker 3>Route they like to take in search for female bees,
<v Speaker 3>because all they do during the day is just eat
<v Speaker 3>and then try and find a female.
<v Speaker 2>And then a lot of times.
<v Speaker 3>They've they've made it with a female on a certain
<v Speaker 3>flower and they're like, oh, I remember that flower, I
<v Speaker 3>mate it with the female there. So they'll keep checking
<v Speaker 3>that flower. So you can wait by that flower and
<v Speaker 3>photograph them that way, Or like they'll have a certain
<v Speaker 3>perch that they like, so they'll just stand around kind
<v Speaker 3>of like guarding their territorior, waiting for a female to
<v Speaker 3>come by, and you can just hang out there and
<v Speaker 3>photograph them. Also, if you're over a bush and you
<v Speaker 3>can cast a shadow over it. So bees have five eyes,
<v Speaker 3>and three of them are light sensing eyes, just laiter
<v Speaker 3>hand over the bush and create a shadow.
<v Speaker 1>Bees have five eyes.
<v Speaker 2>They do Yeah, god, damn, how do not know this?
<v Speaker 1>What where are they? Where are they all? Because I
<v Speaker 1>only see two?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So they have two on either side of their head.
<v Speaker 3>Those are compound eyes, which are made of a bunch
<v Speaker 3>of different like smaller lenses, and then they have three
<v Speaker 3>in the shape of a triangle at the top of
<v Speaker 3>their head. They're called a celle. So you see them
<v Speaker 3>on wasps as well. They're also on like praying mantises.
<v Speaker 3>But they're just light sensing eyes.
<v Speaker 1>How do you spell that?
<v Speaker 2>O C E L L I O.
<v Speaker 1>Damn. I've learned so much. I've taken extensive notes. This
<v Speaker 1>is this is very hot. I think people will it's
<v Speaker 1>actually I appreciate this.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks, yeah, But what's really awesome too, So there's
<v Speaker 3>bees that also fly at like dusk and dawn and
<v Speaker 3>or there's nocturnal bees as well, and you can actually
<v Speaker 3>look at their faces and tell that they're a nocturnal
<v Speaker 3>bee because there are celli are a lot larger than
<v Speaker 3>the bees that fly during the day.
<v Speaker 1>Damn. Nocturnal bees like all hours or just like after dusk.
<v Speaker 3>So there's dusk and dawn. So the KB in the
<v Speaker 3>book is a dusk and dawn bee. But I also
<v Speaker 3>went to Belize and what did I photograph on megalapta.
<v Speaker 3>They're easiest to find on dark sky nights. But yeah,
<v Speaker 3>they wait until it's pitch blackout and that's when they
<v Speaker 3>start flying.
<v Speaker 2>There's also some in.
<v Speaker 3>San Diego County which are some they're longhorned bees, and
<v Speaker 3>the genus kept changing. It might be you know, glossa
<v Speaker 3>Right now, I'm not sure what it does anymore, but yeah,
<v Speaker 3>so there's there's notternal bees. But yeah, back to the bush.
<v Speaker 3>Basically just waiter hand over it to create shadows, and
<v Speaker 3>there's a whole bunch of bees that will scatter, but
<v Speaker 3>the ones that don't, those are the ones I photograph.
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, so you're kind of selecting for the more
<v Speaker 1>tolerant exactly.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>But then also once you spend a lot of time
<v Speaker 3>out there with them, like they're kind of like, oh,
<v Speaker 3>this person does want to bother me, they start ignoring you.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there's that. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And then also too for with my camera equipment, so
<v Speaker 3>I shoot with two different cameras, but in the book,
<v Speaker 3>most of the photos are worth a D five hundred.
<v Speaker 3>But then I got a Z nine about two and
<v Speaker 3>a half years ago, which is a mirrorless.
<v Speaker 1>That's with the fucking cover on it too. For the
<v Speaker 1>sensory did you know about that? I'm sorry, what do
<v Speaker 1>you mean so the light sensor on mirrorless Because there's
<v Speaker 1>no mirror, it's a lot easier to get dirty. But
<v Speaker 1>the Z eight and the Z nine have a light.
<v Speaker 1>They have a sensor cover that comes down.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so you could turn it off. Yeah, no,
<v Speaker 2>it's crazy.
<v Speaker 1>I was sitting there on that tearpants limestone on the
<v Speaker 1>Bristol Mountains, you know, all sweating and trying to like
<v Speaker 1>clean my clean the light sensor. I didn't have a swab,
<v Speaker 1>you know, and I was like, what the fuck? Why
<v Speaker 1>would they build this without any kind of But but
<v Speaker 1>the Z nine's got it, okay, so.
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, yeah, yeah, you know what.
<v Speaker 3>THEO is crazy too. It's like, so that sensor like
<v Speaker 3>it's you can have it. I guess I don't know
<v Speaker 3>the cover or whatever. When the camera's off. It's not
<v Speaker 3>factory settings. You have to like go through the menu
<v Speaker 3>and change that. But yeah, anyway, they do have that cover.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, what was the last thing I said?
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, you were I apologize, it's my foot. You were
<v Speaker 1>using a zen You got a D five yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>So the lens that I like to use, my primarily
<v Speaker 3>primary one is a Nike or one oh five. So
<v Speaker 3>The one oh five is the millimeters, so that's the
<v Speaker 3>link from the back of the lens.
<v Speaker 2>To the subject you're shooting.
<v Speaker 3>So a lot of times with macro lenses they'll be like, oh,
<v Speaker 3>get a thirty five millimeter or like fifty or an eighty.
<v Speaker 3>But if you're shooting something that wants to like run
<v Speaker 3>or fly away from you, that working distance is really helpful.
<v Speaker 3>So that's why I always recommend at least getting like
<v Speaker 3>a one hundred. Tamaran has a really great one hundred
<v Speaker 3>milimeter as well, which is a little bit more affordable
<v Speaker 3>than the nick War.
<v Speaker 2>But that one's really good.
<v Speaker 3>And then I also have die ots that I put
<v Speaker 3>on the front of the lens, which are basically magnifying glasses,
<v Speaker 3>so I get the rainox ones. The one fifty reduces
<v Speaker 3>the working distance, but it really magnifies your subject and
<v Speaker 3>you can get a whole flower head and a b
<v Speaker 3>in there. The two point fifty you can even get
<v Speaker 3>as closer to the these face, not necessarily the whole
<v Speaker 3>flower and then Lawer lenses are some of my favorite lenses.
<v Speaker 3>They're all fully manual, so you definitely have to work
<v Speaker 3>with that, but they have really beautiful yellows, oranges, and reds.
<v Speaker 3>The fifteen millimeter macro LAWA lens is really great because
<v Speaker 3>you can basically touch the front of your lens with
<v Speaker 3>whatever you're photographing. But then it also photographs the whole background.
<v Speaker 3>So if you want to get context for whatever you're shooting,
<v Speaker 3>this is there a really great way to do that
<v Speaker 3>in the book. If you look at the letter I,
<v Speaker 3>the last photo that's in there, it's a Perdita Interrupta
<v Speaker 3>on a poppy, and in the background you see on
<v Speaker 3>all these flowers, but then you also see a house
<v Speaker 3>that was burnt down, which was the yard to the
<v Speaker 3>Spees residing in, So that's a lot of context there.
<v Speaker 2>But then I also have a LAWA I think it's
<v Speaker 2>a twenty five milimeter.
<v Speaker 3>It's two to five times ultra macro, and I use
<v Speaker 3>that for shooting anything five millimeters and smaller. So I've
<v Speaker 3>shot the Perdita minimum with it, which is North America's
<v Speaker 3>smallest known bee.
<v Speaker 1>Wait for Perdia interrupt that you're saying, Okay, the last
<v Speaker 1>photo of the house that was burnt down, and then
<v Speaker 1>all the photos of the macro shots are all with
<v Speaker 1>that LAWA.
<v Speaker 3>Just the last photo so it's the kind of wider
<v Speaker 3>photo with the on the poppy yellow flowers.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that one.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's actually really cool. Damn.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And then so I guess with the LAWA the twenty
<v Speaker 3>five millimeter.
<v Speaker 2>If you look at the.
<v Speaker 3>YB in the book, the one where the bee is
<v Speaker 3>resting under the flower, we're definitely with this one. So
<v Speaker 3>it's for anything that's smaller than five millimeters. I typically
<v Speaker 3>shoot things around two millimeters with it, so about the
<v Speaker 3>size of the letter on a quarter. And it gives
<v Speaker 3>you really really thin depth of field. But if you
<v Speaker 3>can shoot around like I use F five point six
<v Speaker 3>to F eight, otherwise things just get really soft or fuzzy. Otherwise,
<v Speaker 3>if you want to have something on a tripod, don't.
<v Speaker 3>I shoot everything handheld. But if you want to stack
<v Speaker 3>with that, you could go all the way down. I
<v Speaker 3>think it goes to two point eight or two point four.
<v Speaker 3>You can get some really nice sharpness if you stack
<v Speaker 3>with that on the tripoda.
<v Speaker 1>So even really really quick though, so even with like
<v Speaker 1>a one oh five, you're still shooting at like F
<v Speaker 1>five or F eight.
<v Speaker 3>No. No, so at a one oh five I shoot
<v Speaker 3>at because I have the diapter. It changes the F stop.
<v Speaker 3>So I will typically shoot between F eight and F
<v Speaker 3>fourteen for the Rainox one fifty, but if I'm shooting
<v Speaker 3>with the Rainox two fifty, I bump it all the
<v Speaker 3>way up to F eighteen.
<v Speaker 2>It's the lowest I'll shoot at.
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, And so the diapters these are just like
<v Speaker 1>little things that clip onto the lens, right.
<v Speaker 3>It's exactly, Yeah, they're just magnifying glasses and you have
<v Speaker 3>to bump up your f stop because otherwise it just
<v Speaker 3>you get like you get a really sharp, fine area,
<v Speaker 3>but then everything outside of that is really fuzzy. But
<v Speaker 3>I like to shoot at like FA to F fourteen
<v Speaker 3>with the one fifty on the one OHO five because
<v Speaker 3>you get a really clear focus on the face. And
<v Speaker 3>then if you notice in my photos there's it starts
<v Speaker 3>to get like fuzzier outside.
<v Speaker 2>Of just like the portrait area. But I feel like.
<v Speaker 3>It's kind of a really, in my opinion, aesthetically pleasing
<v Speaker 3>way to photograph the bs instead of as subjects. But
<v Speaker 3>like a lot of times you'll see insect photos where
<v Speaker 3>everything is in focus, and a lot of times they're
<v Speaker 3>shooting at a higher f stop or they're stacking the
<v Speaker 3>images yeah, but yeah, just it's preference.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah. I think the thing with especially why, like
<v Speaker 1>the camera stuff is so important for anybody listening who
<v Speaker 1>might be curious, Like this is like I learned. I know,
<v Speaker 1>I realized when I got a macro lens because I
<v Speaker 1>use that one O five nikon two. I used to
<v Speaker 1>use it for the DSLR, Like it was such an
<v Speaker 1>important learning tool, Like I learned so much from having
<v Speaker 1>that because I could look it's like a magnifying glass.
<v Speaker 1>It's like a mint. It's like a shorter, not as
<v Speaker 1>powerful microscope. But I noticed all these things that I
<v Speaker 1>could suddenly see that I wouldn't have seen before or
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't pay attention to. And I could also go back
<v Speaker 1>and reference them every time too, like oh yeah, did
<v Speaker 1>that flower have this on it? Because that's a diagnostic
<v Speaker 1>fat you know, feature in the key when I'm king
<v Speaker 1>something out. So you know, everybody, everybody out there invested
<v Speaker 1>in a decent camera or you know or macro whatever
<v Speaker 1>if you can afford it, because you'll you'll learn so much.
<v Speaker 1>It's you know, work. We're taught to like look at
<v Speaker 1>cameras like oh, you're making art and portrait or whatever,
<v Speaker 1>Like no Man, it's strictly reference for me. You know,
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of.
<v Speaker 2>Inframal what too.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And if people like, if they don't have the
<v Speaker 3>money to invest in this, there's if you do already
<v Speaker 3>have a camera that doesn't have a macro lens on it,
<v Speaker 3>you can get a reverse ring mount and it basically
<v Speaker 3>it it you detach your lens and then you put
<v Speaker 3>it backwards on your camera, so it's like looking through
<v Speaker 3>binoculars backwards. It basically can turn any lens into a
<v Speaker 3>macro lens. And those things are like I don't know,
<v Speaker 3>I haven't looked at the price slately, but like ten
<v Speaker 3>to twenty dollars.
<v Speaker 2>So if you already have that setup, you could just
<v Speaker 2>do that.
<v Speaker 3>And then also like the first two years I was
<v Speaker 3>doing this, I just had my cell phone and I
<v Speaker 3>was literally just using the camera on my phone. But
<v Speaker 3>that was like back when I had like a Samsung
<v Speaker 3>S six, I was taking amazing photos.
<v Speaker 2>But you can also get a little clip on.
<v Speaker 3>Attachments that just clip on and turn your cell phone
<v Speaker 3>into a camera. And then I know Apple is doing
<v Speaker 3>this where you can take photos now and they're they're
<v Speaker 3>raw photos, so you can actually export them onto your computer,
<v Speaker 3>and you can use let room and photoshop, and if
<v Speaker 3>your photos are too bright or too dark, you can
<v Speaker 3>adjust the settings. And I think they even come now
<v Speaker 3>with like macro clip on lenses that work specifically with
<v Speaker 3>a specific type of camera.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I use I use Samsung Galaxies like this
<v Speaker 1>the phone I do too. God damn they take incredible macro.
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's never going to look as crisp and
<v Speaker 1>clear as like a mirror list or DSLR photo, but
<v Speaker 1>you can really capture a lot of detail, and you
<v Speaker 1>can do the ten x zoom setting. It's wild, man,
<v Speaker 1>It's really comes out really good.
<v Speaker 2>Nice.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, no, like I have a Samsung too, Like
<v Speaker 3>I'm sticking with androids.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Like literally, you don't need to go out and spend
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of money on a camera.
<v Speaker 2>Just use your cell phone.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you could I do things to species or
<v Speaker 3>genus at least with yourself on camera.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, lastly, on the camera angle, what do you use
<v Speaker 1>for lighting? Because again that speedlight. If if you're using
<v Speaker 1>a small abertruary of course need a backup light source.
<v Speaker 1>And then especially if the sun is out, it's worse
<v Speaker 1>shooting conditions when the sun is overhead because of that contrast.
<v Speaker 1>So what do you do for lighting and diffusers and
<v Speaker 1>all that?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I use a Sickness Tech diffuser just because
<v Speaker 3>I was too lazy to make my newe diffuser, but
<v Speaker 3>I have a I initially started out with two flashes
<v Speaker 3>that were basically on arms that extended out from the camera,
<v Speaker 3>and then I made like diffusers so basically light would
<v Speaker 3>soften through them but also spread out, so they were
<v Speaker 3>convex shaped like they curved out and I have them
<v Speaker 3>clipped onto my camera with like legos that I made.
<v Speaker 3>And then I had a it's basically like a polypropole material.
<v Speaker 3>It's the same sort of material for like a binder,
<v Speaker 3>but it's white and it just softens the light. That
<v Speaker 3>one's That one was kindcave and it wrapped the light
<v Speaker 3>around the subjects and reducing any shadows. Gave me really
<v Speaker 3>even light, but it was really heavy. So I switched
<v Speaker 3>to a single light source, which is just my speed
<v Speaker 3>light at the top, which is a I think it's
<v Speaker 3>a god Ducks the eight six' two Or Go, ducks.
<v Speaker 1>Maybe the rechargeable ones or.
<v Speaker 3>Something it has a rechargeable, battery because, oh that was
<v Speaker 3>a big. Thing because with my two, FLASHES i had
<v Speaker 3>to USE i think it was called a C r
<v Speaker 3>one two three battery something like, that and each one
<v Speaker 3>of the LITTLE i think it ONLY i can't remember
<v Speaker 3>how many batteries were in, there but it was forty
<v Speaker 3>dollars AND i constantly had to buy, it and then
<v Speaker 3>the rechargeable ones would last about two, photos AND i kept,
<v Speaker 3>buying AND i was, like maybe it's the ONES i,
<v Speaker 3>bought but THEN i would send the ones back and
<v Speaker 3>buy it and they just did not. Work so it's
<v Speaker 3>the single flashes. Lighter the chargeuble batteries actually hold charge
<v Speaker 3>for very very long. Time but, YEAH i use A
<v Speaker 3>Sidness tech, diffuser which has a little light strap that
<v Speaker 3>you can strap under the flash for when you're shooting
<v Speaker 3>at night to help you, focus and also when you're
<v Speaker 3>using THE lawa lenses like the two to five Times Ultra,
<v Speaker 3>macro you need a lot of external light otherwise you're
<v Speaker 3>not gonna be able to see through the. Lens but,
<v Speaker 3>yeah the fuser basically has a black polycrople material at
<v Speaker 3>the top so it directs the light, forward and then
<v Speaker 3>it has a concave white polypropyle.
<v Speaker 2>Material if you want to buy one.
<v Speaker 3>YOURSELF i think it was like zero point two millimeters
<v Speaker 3>or point zero two.
<v Speaker 2>Millimeters but you can.
<v Speaker 3>Make them yourself if you go to like a photography.
<v Speaker 3>Studio the backdrop that they, use that's the material that
<v Speaker 3>you can just you can buy. That they'll give you
<v Speaker 3>samples that you can, purchase and you can cut them
<v Speaker 3>to whatever shape you'd. Like so it's kind of a
<v Speaker 3>more affordable way to do.
<v Speaker 1>It it feels kind of like a plastic version of cardstock, basically, Right.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's that's what it.
<v Speaker 3>Is, yeah but, yeah SO i get plastic instead of
<v Speaker 3>like actual like paper because you, know the element and
<v Speaker 3>easier to wipe. Off, YEAH i just, yeah so it
<v Speaker 3>basically spreads out the light and THEN i do hover
<v Speaker 3>over a lot of the Things i'm photographing more because
<v Speaker 3>if the sun hits them and there's a white spot
<v Speaker 3>from the, sun it just creates this kind of like
<v Speaker 3>white firework, effect which you can't even in photoshop or
<v Speaker 3>light room bring out any of that information. Back SO
<v Speaker 3>i create a shadow over Whatever i'm photographing and all
<v Speaker 3>of the light is coming directly from my.
<v Speaker 1>Flash yeah, yeah, yeah you gotta shade things. OUT i
<v Speaker 1>would even take like for. Flowers SOMETIMES i would take
<v Speaker 1>them open the back gate of my. Truck i've got
<v Speaker 1>a camper on a camera. Show, yeah and you just
<v Speaker 1>want That you just need the background to be darker
<v Speaker 1>than the subject that you're. Photographing, yeah, yeah and far
<v Speaker 1>enough away so that it doesn't pick up as much.
<v Speaker 1>Light but it took the hang of. It but, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>yeah and.
<v Speaker 3>THEN i would say, too like the one thing is
<v Speaker 3>to go into your menu and just the bracketing to
<v Speaker 3>as high as you can, go because the newer the
<v Speaker 3>flashes can only go to, like uh two, fifty like
<v Speaker 3>that's the highest they'll they'll shoot, at but your camera
<v Speaker 3>will bump it up even, higher so you'll take pictures
<v Speaker 3>where the flash doesn't even show up on the. Camera
<v Speaker 3>so if you just match the bracketing to what your your,
<v Speaker 3>flashes it'll sync up really, well so you won't have
<v Speaker 3>that is Shoe what.
<v Speaker 1>Is bracketing like if you're taking a number of exposures
<v Speaker 1>or what you?
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i actually don't know what bracketing.
<v Speaker 3>MEANS i just know it like makes sinks up the
<v Speaker 3>flash with the speed of your, camera when like even
<v Speaker 3>if you have the highest shutter speed, possible it won't
<v Speaker 3>go over the two, fifty which is where the flash
<v Speaker 3>will max that.
<v Speaker 1>At yeah, yeah yeah, speed, yeah because the flash just
<v Speaker 1>can't get can't be fast enough for or it's two fast.
<v Speaker 3>Exactly yeah yeah, yeah so, YEAH i always shoot at two.
<v Speaker 3>Fifty that's like my one thing that's standard throughout. Everything
<v Speaker 3>and then, yeah THE. ISO i feel like with mirrorless,
<v Speaker 3>cameras like people used to always say, like don't shoot
<v Speaker 3>over like one, hundred but you can bump that up
<v Speaker 3>so much higher and then not get noise in your
<v Speaker 3>in your.
<v Speaker 1>Shot why would they say don't shoot over one.
<v Speaker 3>Hundred because like there would be too much softness in
<v Speaker 3>the photos where they'd come out like really fuzzy.
<v Speaker 1>One HUNDRED iso or what yeah one HUNDRED.
<v Speaker 2>Iso, yeah so use the flash and one HUNDRED.
<v Speaker 3>Iso but like now you can Shoot i've seen people
<v Speaker 3>shoot at like over a thousand with the mirrorless and
<v Speaker 3>then not have that.
<v Speaker 2>Issue but again it depends on your.
<v Speaker 3>Camera but also if you have a light, source if
<v Speaker 3>you just have THE iso at one, HUNDRED i KEEP
<v Speaker 3>i pretty much keep it consistently there unless it's really
<v Speaker 3>really dark and PERSONALLY i haven't shot over like Sometimes
<v Speaker 3>i'll get to eight.
<v Speaker 2>Hundred but that's like the Highest i've ever. Gone oh.
<v Speaker 1>Wow so all these photos in the book, though to
<v Speaker 1>go back to that diffuser though that that's A Sigma
<v Speaker 1>tech mostly or what?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah so well actually, No so WHEN i switched to
<v Speaker 3>THE z, nine that was WHEN i had already DECIDED
<v Speaker 3>i just wanted a single, flash so that Was Sickness.
<v Speaker 3>Tech but all of the photos with THE d five,
<v Speaker 3>hundred which is most of the photos in the, book
<v Speaker 3>that was my like two.
<v Speaker 2>Armed to flash set up with the.
<v Speaker 3>Legos so LIKE i think the only ones with THE
<v Speaker 3>z in them are photos shot after mid twenty twenty.
<v Speaker 1>Three and when you're saying, arms what did this? Thing
<v Speaker 1>this is a flash that just had two arms that
<v Speaker 1>came off of it or? What what did it looked?
<v Speaker 3>Like, no so it was THE i can't remember it
<v Speaker 3>was the nikeon. Set it was this like ridiculously Expensive nike.
<v Speaker 1>On there we.
<v Speaker 2>Go yeah that.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah so THEN i ended up finding arms online that
<v Speaker 3>you can like pose in all these different, positions like
<v Speaker 3>they literally look like. Arms you just clipped these onto
<v Speaker 3>and you could position them however you, want like behind the,
<v Speaker 3>bee in front of the, bee like right over your
<v Speaker 3>camera all these different angles to just get amazing light.
<v Speaker 2>Setups but it was so.
<v Speaker 3>Heavy and one TIME i went backpacking without like a
<v Speaker 3>little coin because you need to screw them on the
<v Speaker 3>bottom and it has to be kind of like it
<v Speaker 3>fits a coin or you could use like a key or,
<v Speaker 3>something BUT i didn't have, anything so my arms were
<v Speaker 3>like waving all over the place BECAUSE i forgot to
<v Speaker 3>bring a coin to put them. On and it also
<v Speaker 3>was kind of hard to get them in smaller spaces
<v Speaker 3>just because they took up clearly so much. Space so
<v Speaker 3>that's WHY i switched to a single. Flash but, yeah
<v Speaker 3>the lighting THAT i got with that was just crazy.
<v Speaker 1>Beautiful so that that was a rechargeable batteries, though was?
<v Speaker 2>It?
<v Speaker 3>No that was THE cr one two three that you
<v Speaker 3>had to spend like forty dollars on every single.
<v Speaker 1>Time god yeah. Yeah and those things had the lexible
<v Speaker 1>arms you're saying.
<v Speaker 2>They, did, yeah, yeah which WERE i purchased. Separately.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, god it's such A, yeah getting the lightning right
<v Speaker 1>is so frustrating with, this but obviously it's it's so,
<v Speaker 1>important especially to what you, do and you you, know paid.
<v Speaker 1>Off you've got some excellent photos. Here what let me ask,
<v Speaker 1>you BECAUSE i haven't we haven't even got into like
<v Speaker 1>your personal. Store how did you get into all of?
<v Speaker 3>This SO i actually started with, honeybees which is kind
<v Speaker 3>of funny, now but you know that, quote uh that's
<v Speaker 3>attributed To. Einstein it says that the bee disappeared off
<v Speaker 3>the surface of the, globe then man would only have
<v Speaker 3>four years of life.
<v Speaker 1>Left, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah SO i saw that online and like you know
<v Speaker 3>a lot of, PEOPLE i thought it was, true and
<v Speaker 3>THEN i also Thought einstein said, it SO i was, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh this is about. Honeybees SO i got really heavily
<v Speaker 3>in the honey bees BECAUSE i was, LIKE i want
<v Speaker 3>to save these very important. Pollinators and THEN i ended
<v Speaker 3>up photographing a native bee after doing it for like
<v Speaker 3>a longer time THAN i wanted, it AND i went
<v Speaker 3>back to people at the time WHO i thought were be,
<v Speaker 3>experts which were, beekeepers AND i was, like, hey what
<v Speaker 3>kind of bee is?
<v Speaker 2>This and they didn't. Know and THEN i went.
<v Speaker 3>To, facebook which you, know great place to get factual,
<v Speaker 3>information but there was a group there full of entomologists
<v Speaker 3>and militologists and they basically like they fact checked me
<v Speaker 3>on so many. Things so they were like, yeah they're, like,
<v Speaker 3>Yeah einstein didn't say that. Quote someone just invented it
<v Speaker 3>in The. Internet and it's not honey bees that are
<v Speaker 3>threatened or. Endangered it's it's native. Bees and there's like
<v Speaker 3>a whole conversation with, farming Which i'm to get into
<v Speaker 3>later if you, want but, yeah, basically, yeah so, basically,
<v Speaker 3>yeah they told me that it was the native bees
<v Speaker 3>that are potentially threatened or. Endangered THEY i did that
<v Speaker 3>bee really. QUICKLY i made a really large shift to native.
<v Speaker 3>BEES i actually spent quite a bit of time WHEN
<v Speaker 3>i first was interested in, them not being able to
<v Speaker 3>find them BECAUSE i was like going back to the
<v Speaker 3>same place AS i photographed the honey, bees same Place
<v Speaker 3>i'm living. Now i'm In Los angeles in the. Valley but,
<v Speaker 3>YEAH i was going to people's. YARDS i was going
<v Speaker 3>to people's gardens the, area like the WHAT i thought
<v Speaker 3>was a natural area WHERE i photographed the honey, bees
<v Speaker 3>WHERE i found that one native. BEE i actually photographed
<v Speaker 3>her on, mustard so it was on very invasive. Plants but,
<v Speaker 3>yeah it was actually it. WAS i went to The
<v Speaker 3>Crescent farm at The La A, boretum AND i went
<v Speaker 3>there specifically because the horric culturalist had photographed about five
<v Speaker 3>species and native bees if he'd seen one day and
<v Speaker 3>someone puts them. ONLINE i went there and then that's
<v Speaker 3>the first TIME i made the connection between saving the
<v Speaker 3>native bees means saving the native plants and vice. Versa
<v Speaker 3>SO i spent quite a bit of time there and
<v Speaker 3>then started expanding up to The Santa Monica mountains and The.
<v Speaker 3>Mojave and then my first contribution to science was At Kadida,
<v Speaker 3>nusuda which was in The, mojave and that connected me
<v Speaker 3>with alotologist in a different. Way so instead of just
<v Speaker 3>me photographing the, BEES i was making contributions to. Science
<v Speaker 3>and then WHEN i started visiting the same place as
<v Speaker 3>year after, YEAR i would have An excel sheet WHERE
<v Speaker 3>i was just marking down, times, dates, FLOWERS i REALIZED
<v Speaker 3>i started documenting climate, change.
<v Speaker 2>Which, yeah which is was.
<v Speaker 3>Not it's it's funny now because like it's very obvious
<v Speaker 3>that that was SOMETHING i would have, documented but like
<v Speaker 3>WHEN i was actually doing, IT i was just trying
<v Speaker 3>to track WHEN i would see the. Bees but THEN
<v Speaker 3>i started adding different columns to, this like rainfall or
<v Speaker 3>like different weather things like.
<v Speaker 2>That, yeah it was just it was honestly a hobby
<v Speaker 2>that just turned into a.
<v Speaker 1>Career so you just dove Into you just basically dove into,
<v Speaker 1>science like you just you saw the light by from
<v Speaker 1>these melotologists talking to you on A facebook forum and
<v Speaker 1>kind of being, like, nah let's just pay attention to
<v Speaker 1>the native plants instead of the or the native bees
<v Speaker 1>instead of the honey. Bees and you were, like, okay,
<v Speaker 1>cool and you saw, it and then you just started
<v Speaker 1>following that and tracking. It when you say that you
<v Speaker 1>started documenting climate, change what do you mean? Specifically?
<v Speaker 2>Oh, Okay SO i didn't even realize.
<v Speaker 3>It but WHEN i basically the last year OF i
<v Speaker 3>would say consistent regular rainfall was WHEN i first, started
<v Speaker 3>and then we went into three years of, drought AND
<v Speaker 3>i didn't pay attention to things like that. Beforehand SO
<v Speaker 3>i started, realizing, like the first year is documenting consistent.
<v Speaker 3>Rainfall we're in A mediterranean, climate so it was it
<v Speaker 3>was winter. Rains but then after that it was three
<v Speaker 3>years from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two where it
<v Speaker 3>just wasn't.
<v Speaker 2>Raining and THEN i would start.
<v Speaker 3>To, see like the flowers that were there the first
<v Speaker 3>i'd say year and a half were like not coming.
<v Speaker 3>Back and then twenty three we Had Hurricane, hillary which
<v Speaker 3>was JUST i think some people might say like too much,
<v Speaker 3>rain but, yeah there was like a pendulum basically swinging
<v Speaker 3>back and, forth but it was swinging so excessively that
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the, animals like bees in, nature were
<v Speaker 3>having trouble keeping up. With so After Hurricane, hillary we
<v Speaker 3>had so much early flower, bloom which a lot of
<v Speaker 3>times people will be, like, oh that's, great the flowers came,
<v Speaker 3>back but they came back so early the weather hadn't
<v Speaker 3>adjusted so, SPECIFICALLY i would mention like red rock in
<v Speaker 3>The Mojave, desert it, snowed so everything that bloomed really
<v Speaker 3>early twenty twenty four died and like, Froze so the
<v Speaker 3>pollinators hadn't even had time to come out. Yet so
<v Speaker 3>if they did, emerge where were the flowers that they could?
<v Speaker 3>Visit and, yeah it was just interesting, too because twenty
<v Speaker 3>twenty two was a very interesting. Year it was the
<v Speaker 3>third year of the. Drought but also all of these
<v Speaker 3>bees just random came up above. Ground they've been in,
<v Speaker 3>diapause like in a long term, hibernation AND i don't
<v Speaker 3>know if they were like throwing a Hail mary because
<v Speaker 3>they just ran out of pollen to eat when they were,
<v Speaker 3>developing and they're, like we need to come out. Now
<v Speaker 3>BUT i saw all of these, rare endangered bees just
<v Speaker 3>come up out of the, ground and some of, them
<v Speaker 3>their populations just stayed a lot, Higher LIKE i hadn't
<v Speaker 3>seen them for, years Like BOMBAS crotchyi And bombas Son.
<v Speaker 3>Arena they showed up again in twenty twenty, two and
<v Speaker 3>Now i've seen them consistently every year since. Then but
<v Speaker 3>for three years before, THEN i guess two and a
<v Speaker 3>half three, YEARS i hadn't seen them at. All and
<v Speaker 3>a lot of times people are, Like, okay well what
<v Speaker 3>does that? Mean but like the way science is, STUDIED
<v Speaker 3>i feel like in the, past we see these, things
<v Speaker 3>but we don't necessarily know what they. Mean and community
<v Speaker 3>science is really changing the way people are viewing. Things
<v Speaker 3>so maybe there's like a direct one to one ratio
<v Speaker 3>for like why this is specifically, happening why these bees
<v Speaker 3>are showing up like in huge jumpers the third year
<v Speaker 3>of a. Drought M hm that people they'll be very
<v Speaker 3>obvious maybe a decade or fifty years from, now but
<v Speaker 3>now it just sort of seems. Nonsensical it's just but
<v Speaker 3>everything's really being thrown. Off and a lot of those
<v Speaker 3>bees that showed up in large numbers since twenty twenty,
<v Speaker 3>TWO i haven't seen any of them since.
<v Speaker 1>Damn so it's, YEAH i think it's definitely a thing
<v Speaker 1>of looking at the longer term, trend like this might
<v Speaker 1>be great, now but what is the long term trend
<v Speaker 1>of this going to be? Exactly, so, yeah when you
<v Speaker 1>didn't see stuff for those three, years presumably were they still?
<v Speaker 1>There were they just? Diapause is that like b?
<v Speaker 2>Hibernation, yeah so it's a long term.
<v Speaker 3>Hibernation but, Yeah actually the longest known diapause of a
<v Speaker 3>bee was actually ten, years and that was discovered on
<v Speaker 3>mistake because if guy actually put the cocoons in a
<v Speaker 3>desk drawer and for good about them for a, decade
<v Speaker 3>damn ten.
<v Speaker 2>Years, yeah, yeah and then he opened them up up
<v Speaker 2>and opened.
<v Speaker 3>Up the drawer and he was, like, well let's, see
<v Speaker 3>and then the bees emerged and, yeah which is kind of,
<v Speaker 3>crazy but are these bees in? Diapause for other bees
<v Speaker 3>in diapause for ten years? Underground could it be? Longer
<v Speaker 3>because you, know plants can go into diapause for a
<v Speaker 3>very long.
<v Speaker 1>Time, yeah there was a charactus that was put in
<v Speaker 1>a closet for like five, years no, light no not.
<v Speaker 1>Thinking then it was brought out and it started. Growing
<v Speaker 1>it was.
<v Speaker 3>Fine, yeah but, YEAH i mean we shouldn't assume that
<v Speaker 3>all these bees because they're, disappearing they're going into. DIAPAUSE i,
<v Speaker 3>mean they could just be, dying or maybe there's lack
<v Speaker 3>of because they're like they are, starving or what happens
<v Speaker 3>if they do emerge as adults but there's no flower floral,
<v Speaker 3>resources like what happened In Red rock in The Mohave
<v Speaker 3>desert In. California the bees, emerged but the females aren't
<v Speaker 3>able to collect any. Pollen are they going to travel
<v Speaker 3>and look around for like other habitat that has those
<v Speaker 3>flowers or some bedes like literally live right underneath the
<v Speaker 3>flower that they, visit like Some Agaposium i've seen like
<v Speaker 3>literally just have a burrow right under the flower they keep.
<v Speaker 3>Visiting And i've seen Some holicus do that as. Well
<v Speaker 3>so like what is the range they can?
<v Speaker 1>Travel it's it's crazy to think about. Too you, know
<v Speaker 1>all this is all important stuff to pay attention, to
<v Speaker 1>and all this there's so much data and information to be,
<v Speaker 1>collected but if no one AND i think about, this
<v Speaker 1>especially WHERE i, live because nobody's out there collecting, it
<v Speaker 1>very few, people especially compared to a place Like, california
<v Speaker 1>where there's way more people interested in this, stuff and
<v Speaker 1>there's more people in. General but you know, this and
<v Speaker 1>so that brings up the. Thing you, know you'd mentioned community.
<v Speaker 1>Science it used to be called citizen. SCIENCE i don't
<v Speaker 1>REALLY i think it's a corny fucking. Term the. Citizen
<v Speaker 1>I'm JOHN, q text, Paper JOHN. Q. Taxpayer and then
<v Speaker 1>of course all this stuff about you know how how
<v Speaker 1>citizenship has been used as a wedge, issue, yeah for
<v Speaker 1>con men to, steal you, know basically get, votes uh
<v Speaker 1>from people who are really concerned about, that even though
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't affect them at. All so you started using
<v Speaker 1>this term community, science WHICH i think is way more
<v Speaker 1>applicable and doesn't sound as fucking corny as. EITHER i like.
<v Speaker 1>It but you, know this is. Why it just highlights
<v Speaker 1>the importance of, this like you collecting that, data even
<v Speaker 1>if it's just a couple of photographs and then putting
<v Speaker 1>it on a naturalist is so. Important and this kind
<v Speaker 1>of is a call to arms for people out there it's, like,
<v Speaker 1>man start start documenting this, stuff start paying attention to,
<v Speaker 1>it because, YOU i, mean look at. You you discovered
<v Speaker 1>you described the new species of b that wasn't known
<v Speaker 1>to exist.
<v Speaker 3>Before, WELL i mean that species is no just new
<v Speaker 3>behaviors and, yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Okay so it was like a cryptic species kind.
<v Speaker 3>Of, no so it was it was a described, species
<v Speaker 3>but it was uh, so, yeah the podta URSUITOR i
<v Speaker 3>think is the one you're talking, about, right, yeah, yeah
<v Speaker 3>so that one was. Described it just it was considered
<v Speaker 3>a lost, species so no one had seen it since the,
<v Speaker 3>fifties no one had ever COLLECT i don't know if
<v Speaker 3>anyone had.
<v Speaker 2>Actually ever seen it.
<v Speaker 3>Alive so basically what people still do a lot of
<v Speaker 3>millotologists is they'll put out a pan trap and it
<v Speaker 3>could be a, pan could be a, bowl and it'll
<v Speaker 3>have liquid in it and anything that flies by could
<v Speaker 3>be attracted to, it and then they'll drown in, it pass,
<v Speaker 3>away and then they're studied back into. Lab BUT i
<v Speaker 3>saw them, alive photographed them, alive and that's HOW i
<v Speaker 3>got the first photos and also behavioral information as. Well
<v Speaker 3>and the thing about that Is i've actually documented as
<v Speaker 3>far as just BEES i photographed twenty species of bees
<v Speaker 3>That i've never photographed alive, before AND i have eight
<v Speaker 3>new behavioral. Studies and WHEN i go To, australia like
<v Speaker 3>funding for insects science is just so. Underfunded WHEN i
<v Speaker 3>go To, cooktown, SPECIFICALLY i go there with like this
<v Speaker 3>twenty foot long net or six meter long net and
<v Speaker 3>EVERYTHING i capture a euclipustries because that's primarily Where i'm
<v Speaker 3>looking is an undescribed. Species so those are those are
<v Speaker 3>the actual undescribed. Ones BUT i have PHOTOGRAPHED i know
<v Speaker 3>In california three species that are. Undescribed one of them
<v Speaker 3>is in the. Book it's with THE. Tv it's a hesperate.
<v Speaker 3>This so, yeah there's there's quite a few undescribed. Species
<v Speaker 3>so there's twenty a little over twenty thousand RECOGNIZED b
<v Speaker 3>species in the, world but it's estimated that four thousand are,
<v Speaker 3>Undescribed so four thousand on top of that twenty. Thousand
<v Speaker 3>but that's just a. Guess it's based on ratios of what's.
<v Speaker 1>Known it's, crazy it's crazy to think about. It, Yeah
<v Speaker 1>i'm looking at this picture of THIS b now he's
<v Speaker 1>in a mohavia. Flower that this is the undescribed species
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about on the.
<v Speaker 2>Tee, yeah yeahs.
<v Speaker 1>Brave but but, YEAH i, mean like just getting people
<v Speaker 1>out there to just document all of all this stuff is.
<v Speaker 1>SOUL i mean you had a lot to say about
<v Speaker 1>that about just community science and the importance of getting
<v Speaker 1>people to go pay attention and photographic. Document.
<v Speaker 2>YEAH i think community science is the future of.
<v Speaker 3>Science AND i feel like community science is so important
<v Speaker 3>because it changes what a scientist looks.
<v Speaker 2>Like like a lot of times people picture like.
<v Speaker 3>This old man in a laboratory who spent years in
<v Speaker 3>university just looking into a, microscope but it could be
<v Speaker 3>you just going in your backyard with your cell phone taking.
<v Speaker 3>Pictures like there should be no barrier to, entry and
<v Speaker 3>with community, science really there isn't just want to make
<v Speaker 3>sure you're obviously presenting, factual authentic, information but, yeah anyone
<v Speaker 3>could do. It AND i just like with this book
<v Speaker 3>or with Whatever i'm, DOING i just want to showcase
<v Speaker 3>that to. People, yeah, yeah and not exclude people with
<v Speaker 3>like the language, too like the.
<v Speaker 2>Citizen.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah so, yeah, YEAH i, think, UH i think it's
<v Speaker 1>just rewarding for a lot of people too to just
<v Speaker 1>get out, there even if you know whatever they're. Doing
<v Speaker 1>if THEY'RE i mean it was just for, Yourself, like
<v Speaker 1>if you're just going up for, Yourself, YEAH i just
<v Speaker 1>what do you? Today it's, like did you sit in
<v Speaker 1>a basement and play fucking Call It, theory or stare
<v Speaker 1>At netflix or just you, know go into a gram
<v Speaker 1>hole on your phone you're, scrolling or did you KNOW
<v Speaker 1>i went outside AND i, LIKE i like climbed up
<v Speaker 1>a mountain and like looked at cool plants and bugs
<v Speaker 1>for an.
<v Speaker 2>Hour and it's.
<v Speaker 3>Amazing it's it's REALLY i feel like, mentally it's really
<v Speaker 3>healthy for people to disconnect from what's going on a
<v Speaker 3>lot of times in. SOCIETY i, mean you should obviously
<v Speaker 3>be aware of what's going, on but for just your mental,
<v Speaker 3>health it's good to take breaks and just go out
<v Speaker 3>into a place where not everything revolves around people or
<v Speaker 3>around you and just sit.
<v Speaker 1>There, yeah that's when it gets, bleak, man when that's
<v Speaker 1>all you know is the human. World it's, like that's it's,
<v Speaker 1>scary you, Know and ESPECIALLY i think in The United states,
<v Speaker 1>TOO a lot of the world that's been, created at
<v Speaker 1>least the human world is not worth spending a lot
<v Speaker 1>of diamond they're just parking lots and consumer, farms and
<v Speaker 1>you know it's not Very, yeah you got to get
<v Speaker 1>away from. That it's not good for. IT A, so,
<v Speaker 1>OKAY i want to ask you one thing before we
<v Speaker 1>dip out. Here so there's a there's a plant Called
<v Speaker 1>nemus stylus florid. Dana it's it's a member of The iris.
<v Speaker 1>Family it's a rare plant In. Florida AND i saw
<v Speaker 1>it a few weeks ago WHEN i was there Filming
<v Speaker 1>Lake Whales, ridge which is this like spine of sand
<v Speaker 1>with all these cool endemic, plants probably a bunch of
<v Speaker 1>endemic bees on it, too in Central. Florida and, so,
<v Speaker 1>uh this, plant, actually this plant wasn't On Lake Wales.
<v Speaker 1>Ridge it was just west of. It it was off
<v Speaker 1>the ridge in the lower. Area but it's an iris
<v Speaker 1>that only opens it LIKE i, think like four. Pm
<v Speaker 1>it's open for like two or three. Hours and that's
<v Speaker 1>because according to What i've, read the sweat bee that pollinates,
<v Speaker 1>it it's mostly halicted bees that pollinate it are only
<v Speaker 1>active at that hours at Those so would that BE i,
<v Speaker 1>mean that's a very that's a high degree of. Specificity
<v Speaker 1>is that a? THING i? MEAN i know you said
<v Speaker 1>this are kind of hinted at. Already but there's some
<v Speaker 1>bees that will only be active between certain hours of the.
<v Speaker 1>Day and why is?
<v Speaker 2>It, yeah, definitely. Yeah so there's certain, bees Like i'll
<v Speaker 2>go With perdida bees for.
<v Speaker 3>Example a lot of them are just very very, minute
<v Speaker 3>so they can go down to like one point eight,
<v Speaker 3>millimeters but they need that heat to fly since they're cold,
<v Speaker 3>blooded so they wait for certain. Temperatures so like the
<v Speaker 3>yb and the, book they wait until the sun is directly,
<v Speaker 3>overhead otherwise they just can't not.
<v Speaker 2>Function SO i don't know if that's what you, meant
<v Speaker 2>or like the, flower.
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it iss, yeah maybe it. Is so maybe so
<v Speaker 1>some bees are temperature dependent BECAUSE i, know you, know
<v Speaker 1>you go to like The, andes like higher or higher
<v Speaker 1>elevation areas Of. Mexico we're eight thousand, feet, right and
<v Speaker 1>that's very. High if you're in the northern land of
<v Speaker 1>the just gonna be chili or it's gonna be freezing.
<v Speaker 1>Alpine but eight thousand feet In, mexico a lot of
<v Speaker 1>those forests are like very, moist cool cloud, forests like
<v Speaker 1>the forest where the monarchs go is like eight or
<v Speaker 1>nine thousand feet in Central mexico AND i know when
<v Speaker 1>you go to those elevations in the, neotropics you start
<v Speaker 1>seeing a lot of hummingbird pollinated flowers like red tubular.
<v Speaker 1>Flowers And i've always heard that that's because a lot of.
<v Speaker 1>Bees it's so cool up. There it's like climate of
<v Speaker 1>Like Richmond district Of San, francisco, right like just foggy
<v Speaker 1>and kind of, cool that there's not a lot of bees.
<v Speaker 1>Active is that. TRUE i, mean there's just not that many.
<v Speaker 1>Bees there's, some, right but most bees can't function at
<v Speaker 1>chili temperatures like, that or there's a lot that. Can't
<v Speaker 1>is that.
<v Speaker 3>Correct, yeah they're definitely cold, blooded so they do need
<v Speaker 3>the higher. Temperatures, HOWEVER i would say that there are
<v Speaker 3>bees that are higher elevation, specialists so even though it
<v Speaker 3>is cooler in higher, elevation they do function while. There
<v Speaker 3>so like the THE cv for example in the, book
<v Speaker 3>that's one of, those a lot of bumble. Bees you'll
<v Speaker 3>see them at higher elevations as. Well and THEN i
<v Speaker 3>know this is mainly about native, bees but honey. Bees
<v Speaker 3>one of the reasons why there's so many issues with
<v Speaker 3>them is why they outcompete basically everything for, resources is
<v Speaker 3>because they're a mix of The european and The. Africans
<v Speaker 3>so The european ones can show up when it's, colder
<v Speaker 3>so they could show up early in the. Morning but
<v Speaker 3>since they're also mixed with The african ones that were
<v Speaker 3>brought in From, brazil you, know they kind of came
<v Speaker 3>in a use shape.
<v Speaker 2>To get up.
<v Speaker 3>Here but they can also show up when it's like
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and twenty degrees, outside so they'll stay out all,
<v Speaker 3>day taking away the resources from a lot of bees
<v Speaker 3>earlier than some of these smaller, bees like The perdida for,
<v Speaker 3>Example like they need that temperature to show. Up so,
<v Speaker 3>yeah you can get high elevation, specialists some that just
<v Speaker 3>require certain temperatures or just certain.
<v Speaker 1>Lights, yeah the honey, BEES i, mean how bad are
<v Speaker 1>they for native? Bees and do they really Reduce they
<v Speaker 1>have effects where they reduce biodiversity of native bees and
<v Speaker 1>can help compete. Them what's going on?
<v Speaker 3>There, yeah so it's not just native bees that they're out,
<v Speaker 3>competing it's native. Pollinators so because they're one of the
<v Speaker 3>reasons is because, WELL i guess in drought years you
<v Speaker 3>can really really see. This so this was what was
<v Speaker 3>happening during those three, years and like until twenty twenty.
<v Speaker 3>Two but when there's less, resources they'll show up even
<v Speaker 3>earlier in the day like just they normally, do but
<v Speaker 3>they'll take the resources from what is. Flowering they'll swarm
<v Speaker 3>around it and take all those. Resources and the pollinators
<v Speaker 3>that show up later in the, day they don't have any.
<v Speaker 3>Resources so what happens to? Them do they starve or
<v Speaker 3>do they go out looking for other? PLACES a lot
<v Speaker 3>of them can't travel that, far so they could possibly
<v Speaker 3>like they're. Young if they do have them that make
<v Speaker 3>it to the next, year sometimes they end up so
<v Speaker 3>much smaller than their parents the year, before or they
<v Speaker 3>just aren't able to survive because there's not enough pollen
<v Speaker 3>resources and they could travel so far and.
<v Speaker 2>Wide the honey bees that they.
<v Speaker 3>Just kind of suffocate, areas and this is really seen
<v Speaker 3>in island areas like The Channel. Islands so the honey
<v Speaker 3>bees were actually removed from many of the islands over
<v Speaker 3>there because of the decrecline in pollinator, diversity because the
<v Speaker 3>honey bees were basically just taking all of their. Resources
<v Speaker 3>so they found when they were, removed the pollinator diversity
<v Speaker 3>increased so, much and, specifically if you go To Santa Cruz.
<v Speaker 3>Island there's the pollinators, there it's like the Most i've
<v Speaker 3>seen anywhere In california or The Trinity alps as. Well
<v Speaker 3>there's like there's meadows on the mountains and it's amazing
<v Speaker 3>the pollinator diversity up, there but a lot less honey.
<v Speaker 1>Bees, Yeah i'm just trying to we're trying to drum
<v Speaker 1>up had for honey. BEES i made a little drawing
<v Speaker 1>that says fuck the honey, bees BECAUSE i, really.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah it's kind of sad because like they're they're not bad.
<v Speaker 3>Bees it's just the way people have like farmed them
<v Speaker 3>and introduced. Them they just wreck.
<v Speaker 1>Habitats they're, everywhere, yeah and it's it's not a form
<v Speaker 1>of anthro. Percenters And i'm sure they're cool where they're,
<v Speaker 1>native but, here you, know it's interesting.
<v Speaker 3>Too actually where they're, native, well, Okay i'll just specifically
<v Speaker 3>go with The european. Ones so even when they're where
<v Speaker 3>they're native In, europe because they're being farmed the same
<v Speaker 3>way they're being farmed in THE, us they're still out competing.
<v Speaker 3>Pollinators so in like a healthy, ecosystem like we're talking
<v Speaker 3>about in The jenga board or a, game there should
<v Speaker 3>be creatures that control their population, naturally but because they're being,
<v Speaker 3>farmed even when they're native In, europe they're they're starting
<v Speaker 3>to outcompete the native the other native pollinators as, well
<v Speaker 3>which is just really. Interesting but, then LIKE i, guess
<v Speaker 3>because we didn't really talk about, farming so people are, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh but we need them for. Food and the thing,
<v Speaker 3>is So i've actually started working with some universities and
<v Speaker 3>like organizations like The Nurses, society And i've been visiting.
<v Speaker 2>Farms so the u be in the book is an
<v Speaker 2>example of.
<v Speaker 3>This BUT i started to realize that, farmers a lot of,
<v Speaker 3>them don't actually realize what's pollinating their. Crops so they'll
<v Speaker 3>put honey beehives next to the crops and they'll, say,
<v Speaker 3>like let's just say seventy percent of crops are pollinated
<v Speaker 3>by honey. Bees they'll say that because seventy percent of
<v Speaker 3>the crops haven't behived by, them and they just assume
<v Speaker 3>that's the only thing pollinating.
<v Speaker 2>Them but if you actually.
<v Speaker 3>Visit you'll see you see native bees, there which is
<v Speaker 3>crazy because the ecosystem's completely. Destroyed but you'll also see
<v Speaker 3>things like, beetles you'll see, flies you'll see, wasps you'll see, butterflies.
<v Speaker 3>Birds and it's crazy too because like even in irrigation,
<v Speaker 3>ditches WHERE i was, like, oh you're not going to see,
<v Speaker 3>Anything i've seen tadpoles in. Them but then there's farmers
<v Speaker 3>that In california are starting to plant hedgerows or pollinator,
<v Speaker 3>habitats and they've found that there's less needful pesticides because
<v Speaker 3>like the, wasps for, example they'll control the populations of
<v Speaker 3>the trips or the, aphids and then there's so many.
<v Speaker 3>More instead of relying on this single non native invasive
<v Speaker 3>farm animal for, pollination you have this whole ecosystem doing.
<v Speaker 3>It so a lot of times their crops are producing more.
<v Speaker 1>Fruit that's awesome. Plants SO i wish they did that.
<v Speaker 1>EVERYWHERE i, mean just keep some remnants of the native
<v Speaker 1>living skin, around you.
<v Speaker 3>Know, YEAH i genuinely don't think using honeybees or farming
<v Speaker 3>long term is going to be. SUSTAINABLE i think people
<v Speaker 3>are going to be eventually forced to use a pollinator.
<v Speaker 2>Habitat but, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And it's interesting too BECAUSE I i didn't even think about,
<v Speaker 3>this but, like, yeah everyone has, like well not. EVERYONE
<v Speaker 3>i have seasonal allergies Where i'm like, oh there's like
<v Speaker 3>so much pollen in the, air and it's my allergies
<v Speaker 3>have been bothering.
<v Speaker 2>ME i didn't even think about wind.
<v Speaker 1>Pollination, yeah it's only it's only wind pollinated plants that cause.
<v Speaker 3>Allergies, Yeah AND i, was, well, yeah and THEN i
<v Speaker 3>was just like, YEAH i didn't think like, like, hey
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of our crops that are wind. Pollinated
<v Speaker 3>so and then there's crops too that are pollinated by
<v Speaker 3>hand by.
<v Speaker 2>People.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah so there's so many more pollinators than just honey,
<v Speaker 3>bees so many of them that do it better BECAUSE
<v Speaker 3>i can't remember the ratio off the top of my,
<v Speaker 3>head BUT i think it was like a Dozen osmia
<v Speaker 3>be's or the mason.
<v Speaker 2>Bees we'll do the same.
<v Speaker 3>Pollination as like a hundred or a couple of hundred honey.
<v Speaker 3>Bees so they just pollinate better because one of the
<v Speaker 3>reasons is a lot of. Yeah, yeah so a lot
<v Speaker 3>of pollination is accidental. Pollination so female bees purposely collect.
<v Speaker 3>Pollen there's some that are parasites who don't do, that.
<v Speaker 2>But they'll purposely collect.
<v Speaker 3>Pollen but they're also like a lot of them are really,
<v Speaker 3>fluffy so the way they're like structurally designed maybe go
<v Speaker 3>in the, flower their hair will just naturally collect. Pollen
<v Speaker 3>and the one is that all these other flowers and
<v Speaker 3>pollinate them just because of the way they're physically, designed
<v Speaker 3>which helps pollinate the.
<v Speaker 2>Flowers that's their.
<v Speaker 1>BEHAVIOR asmi is the cool Looking Damn yes they.
<v Speaker 2>Are. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah when you say when you say you don't think
<v Speaker 1>you think honey bees might not be the you, know
<v Speaker 1>we might be farmers might have to switch to native
<v Speaker 1>bees at some, point or creating Pollinator habitat're you mean
<v Speaker 1>like exactly that creating hedgerows of native plants that to
<v Speaker 1>sustain all the native pollinators and get a high diversity
<v Speaker 1>as opposed you, know that can pollinate all your, crops
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to relying on this one species that didn't
<v Speaker 1>even evolve In North. America.
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah and there's there's even farmers that are who aren't
<v Speaker 3>creating pollinator. Habitats they're shipping In osmia bees because they're, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh they pollinate, better and they're, like, oh they're native.
<v Speaker 3>Bees but it's interesting because they are native to THE,
<v Speaker 3>us but these a lot of these, ones they are
<v Speaker 3>not native To, california so they're shipping in more non native,
<v Speaker 3>futures which is really. Interesting but, yeah the pollinator habitat
<v Speaker 3>is a great, thing AND i feel like.
<v Speaker 2>That is the future of.
<v Speaker 3>Farming there's Some nomia bees that are being used i
<v Speaker 3>think In, oregon which they're native To orgon In, california
<v Speaker 3>they like the farmers are literally creating a habitat for
<v Speaker 3>them because they're, like, oh these bees pollinate so. Well, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>yeah just like alkaline soil that they're, using and, YEAH
<v Speaker 3>i just feel like and then the honey bees also
<v Speaker 3>spread so many disease or several diseases to native bees as,
<v Speaker 3>well so that's another thing that's hurting native.
<v Speaker 1>Bees, YEAH i mean it's just more you, know who
<v Speaker 1>would have, thought, like you keep the native plants that
<v Speaker 1>evolved in a place over millions of, years he keep them,
<v Speaker 1>Around there's going to be you, know many residual benefits
<v Speaker 1>that spill. Over you. Know it's, like maybe don't clear.
<v Speaker 1>Everything it's, like it's our society and civilization as it
<v Speaker 1>exists right, now you, know and there's reasons why it
<v Speaker 1>is the way it. Is ours just so disconnected and
<v Speaker 1>aloof and and really just we're so good at shooting
<v Speaker 1>ourselves in the. Foot it's just such a myopic mindset
<v Speaker 1>that just and not even, JUST i mean you should
<v Speaker 1>allow these things to exist just on the the valor
<v Speaker 1>of their own existence to begin. WITH i, mean there're
<v Speaker 1>just these incredible living, systems you, know not just because
<v Speaker 1>that oh it's it benefits. Us but when you start
<v Speaker 1>just having respect for like the living world as a, whole,
<v Speaker 1>god it's just, YEAH i mean it's they'll learn, eventually you,
<v Speaker 1>know whether we like it Or but to follow up
<v Speaker 1>with the honey bee, thing so one of the presentations
<v Speaker 1>that you, know that day THAT i met you that
<v Speaker 1>was given was about how honey bees increase the rate of,
<v Speaker 1>guidanogamy which is considered in, plants which is considered self
<v Speaker 1>pollination since the flowers that that pollen is being exchanged
<v Speaker 1>between occur on the same. Plant so this is kind
<v Speaker 1>of like like, inbreeding you get the recess of also.
<v Speaker 3>Like they're not visiting a lot of, flowers are just
<v Speaker 3>visiting the same and then, like, yeah pollinating a plant
<v Speaker 3>with its own.
<v Speaker 1>Pollen, yeah because honey bees will go from flower to
<v Speaker 1>flower to flower on the same, plant rather than going
<v Speaker 1>from flower on this plant to going you, know like
<v Speaker 1>the Ways i've seen native bees do go from this
<v Speaker 1>flower on this plant and then flying to a different
<v Speaker 1>plant with a different, flower a different individual plant of
<v Speaker 1>the same. Species so do you know anything about? IT i,
<v Speaker 1>mean like what in terms of more of the prowns
<v Speaker 1>and honey, BEES i, mean they're any of the just
<v Speaker 1>the negative effects that they have on any the plant
<v Speaker 1>life that you've seen or WHAT i, know they think
<v Speaker 1>take all limited they'll take all, resources limited. Resources, yeah
<v Speaker 1>but you know what about the?
<v Speaker 3>Facts, yeah you know that's actually The that was the
<v Speaker 3>first time that i'd actually heard about. That and it's
<v Speaker 3>interesting too because that's Something i'd seen on, plants BUT
<v Speaker 3>i never really thought about like the con consequences of.
<v Speaker 3>It like you see honeybees day after day just swarming
<v Speaker 3>a particular bush for some.
<v Speaker 2>Reason they just like that the flowers on that.
<v Speaker 3>Bush BUT i never really thought about the consequences of
<v Speaker 3>them just visiting that bush and then just transferring the
<v Speaker 3>flowers with this individual plant itself and what that happens to.
<v Speaker 3>It SO i JUST i think that's, like this is
<v Speaker 3>WHAT i love about like so many different people looking at.
<v Speaker 3>Things they just kind of open your eyes to things
<v Speaker 3>that you weren't aware of and the consequences of, it
<v Speaker 3>because that was like literally the first Time i'd heard of,
<v Speaker 3>that AND i was, like you know, what, Yeah i've
<v Speaker 3>seen that in.
<v Speaker 1>Nature, yeah it was the first TIME i thought about it. Too,
<v Speaker 1>yeah and THEN i thought about. It i'm, like, yeah you,
<v Speaker 1>know you look at the native beest AND i know
<v Speaker 1>this Because i'll be trying to photograph. Them they won't
<v Speaker 1>stay on the same plant as long as honey oh.
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah and.
<v Speaker 1>So that leads to more, outcrossing which, means you, know
<v Speaker 1>better avoidance of inbreeding the. Depression it means avoidance of inbreeding,
<v Speaker 1>depression and then you, know avoiding reduced levels of fitness
<v Speaker 1>in the Resulting, see because honey bees just poll if
<v Speaker 1>it's just the same individual plant ponnating, itself that results
<v Speaker 1>in breeding depression and, yeah reduced levels of. Fitness so,
<v Speaker 1>yeah really.
<v Speaker 3>Fascinating, yeah it's interesting because there's so many things that
<v Speaker 3>like greenhouse. Farming for, example with the bumblebees on The East,
<v Speaker 3>coast people were, Like, okay Well i'm going to use
<v Speaker 3>a native bee instead of a, honeybee but we don't
<v Speaker 3>want them to visit anything, else so we're going to
<v Speaker 3>have them in a greenhouse and they're, Like, okay this
<v Speaker 3>is a great. Idea the bees are native to, hear
<v Speaker 3>but then they didn't think about, inbreeding and like when
<v Speaker 3>there is genetic, diversity like there's diseases in every, species
<v Speaker 3>but when they're not able to breathe with like other,
<v Speaker 3>diversity every single one of the bees in that genus
<v Speaker 3>or subgenus or maybe species can be susceptible to a certain,
<v Speaker 3>disease and then if they get out in, nature they
<v Speaker 3>spread that susceptibility to other, creatures which is why there's
<v Speaker 3>a decline in bumblebees in the Subgenus bombus specifically because greenouse.
<v Speaker 3>Farming but you wouldn't like think of this, beforehand but
<v Speaker 3>like afterwards you're, like oh that makes.
<v Speaker 1>Sense it's it's weird though, too because like who cares
<v Speaker 1>if the bees have other pollen on. Them it's the
<v Speaker 1>only the only palen that's going to hit the stigma
<v Speaker 1>or going to germinate on the stigma of a certain
<v Speaker 1>plant species is pollen from that same plant, species you,
<v Speaker 1>know or that's going to end up fertilizing. It it's
<v Speaker 1>like it works in, nature you. Know, Again it's like,
<v Speaker 1>this don't mess with. It it's not. Broken don't mess
<v Speaker 1>it like we feel this need to tinker with. Things, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>right like it, WAS i, left there was a there
<v Speaker 1>WAS i forget how exactly how it exactly. WENT i
<v Speaker 1>Would i'm probably gonna fuck it. Up but someone had, said,
<v Speaker 1>oh we've invented this amazing system for capturing carbon out
<v Speaker 1>of the air and putting it back into the. Ground
<v Speaker 1>and someone commented it was like a meme, show and
<v Speaker 1>it was, like, yeah that's what forrests. Do like that's
<v Speaker 1>what forests and grasslands. Do you're going to capture carbon
<v Speaker 1>from the air and put it like you just reinvented the,
<v Speaker 1>wheel you, know like we already have, it you, don't
<v Speaker 1>we don't need.
<v Speaker 2>It it was, okay it WAS i have so many QUESTIONS.
<v Speaker 1>I, THINK i, mean Maybe i'm messing it. Up but
<v Speaker 1>it was someone basically described how like the carbon like photosynthesis.
<v Speaker 1>Works you. Know it's like like just so like it's just.
<v Speaker 1>Funny it's like the tech the tech habit like being
<v Speaker 1>so far up your own ass that you don't realize
<v Speaker 1>like the living world already does. This you.
<v Speaker 3>Know, wow that's that's like were they, like, oh we're
<v Speaker 3>getting rid of trees so we need to do this
<v Speaker 3>or they like.
<v Speaker 1>That's where they were, headed like oh, fuck, fuck we
<v Speaker 1>don't need trees, anymore you, know we. Can we've mechanized.
<v Speaker 1>Photosynth This it's, like, yo it's already already, Exists like
<v Speaker 1>we don't we don't need? It like what what do
<v Speaker 1>you that? Is what kind Of Rube goldberg ass shit
<v Speaker 1>is that you don't? Need you know WHAT i?
<v Speaker 3>MEAN i wonder how much money was spent to like
<v Speaker 3>develop that, TOO i.
<v Speaker 1>Know, Man SO i mean that's the way that you
<v Speaker 1>know you're if you grow up as strange from all,
<v Speaker 1>this and the more estranged and alienated society gets from
<v Speaker 1>human society gets from the living, world the more goofy
<v Speaker 1>shit like that you're going to. See and it's just
<v Speaker 1>just just plant the native plants around and like leave
<v Speaker 1>a little. Bit you don't have to develop, everything leave
<v Speaker 1>a quarter of the land to just function as a
<v Speaker 1>living machine and manage it and steward. It that's all
<v Speaker 1>you need to. Do you go down this.
<v Speaker 3>ROAD i don't know if this is still. Happening, ACTUALLY
<v Speaker 3>i hope there was a stop to, it BUT i
<v Speaker 3>think it.
<v Speaker 2>Was In Palm.
<v Speaker 3>SPRINGS i wanted to create an area for people to
<v Speaker 3>go out in, nature but like in a resort. Style
<v Speaker 3>so they basically were planning on destroying a lot of
<v Speaker 3>the land but then recreating it in a box in
<v Speaker 3>the exact same, area but as a style of a,
<v Speaker 3>resort so people could experience nature but from the safety
<v Speaker 3>of kind of inside of a.
<v Speaker 2>Box, Jesus AND i was just, like that is so.
<v Speaker 1>Weird it's so watered, down it's so. Whack it's so,
<v Speaker 1>Lame like who comes up with this? Stuff, like you,
<v Speaker 1>know it's that's WHAT i. Wonder i'm JUST i don't.
<v Speaker 1>Know it's it's so amazing down there, Too like that
<v Speaker 1>whole region is just so incredible, Already LIKE i don't,
<v Speaker 1>know it just seems a goofy way to do. It
<v Speaker 1>why not just, provide, like you, know can eco resort
<v Speaker 1>and then give people, ideas you, know a list of
<v Speaker 1>places to go in the area that they can drive,
<v Speaker 1>to and you, know why does it have to be
<v Speaker 1>this like protected watered? DOWN i don't, Know but, Anyway,
<v Speaker 1>okay Why, okay this is honestly the last QUESTION i
<v Speaker 1>promise answer to. This, okay you would mentioned that you
<v Speaker 1>would SAW i think it was that. Perdida you said
<v Speaker 1>you saw it on a, mustard which is an invasive
<v Speaker 1>plant From. Europe how what benefit do a lot of
<v Speaker 1>invasives provide and is it as limited as we're commonly
<v Speaker 1>told that it is for native? BEES i, mean HOW
<v Speaker 1>i guess it's better than, nothing, Right but, like what
<v Speaker 1>is the benefit that you get from invasive? Plant and
<v Speaker 1>how many times do you see native bees on invasives
<v Speaker 1>or just horticultural garbage? Too?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah so actually that one was an ingrena and you know, What,
<v Speaker 3>okay so this is my. Theory so creasote technically is
<v Speaker 3>a new. Plant it's been here for WHAT i can't,
<v Speaker 3>remember hundreds of thousands of, years which technically is. New,
<v Speaker 3>Yes and that the basis of THINGS i mustard is
<v Speaker 3>at the MOMENT i would consider a very horrible invasive.
<v Speaker 3>Plant the non native, mustards they crowd out things for other,
<v Speaker 3>plants for. Resources BUT i am starting to see native
<v Speaker 3>bees visiting. Them and these are generalist pollinators and not
<v Speaker 3>the specialist ones that have a specialist. Relationships BUT i
<v Speaker 3>do wonder if in the future because a lot of
<v Speaker 3>the times WHEN i do see the, mustards there's literally
<v Speaker 3>nothing else. There so the bees are visiting them because
<v Speaker 3>of lack of other floral. RESOURCES i do wonder if
<v Speaker 3>in hundreds of thousands of, years this plant but, somehow
<v Speaker 3>if people stop, INTERFERING i don't know what the ecosystems
<v Speaker 3>have the like self balance where maybe we're we're seeing
<v Speaker 3>bees that are like only collect pollen from this plant
<v Speaker 3>that is just highly, invasive or LIKE i JUST i
<v Speaker 3>have these questions BECAUSE i think the creosote really but
<v Speaker 3>the creosote also came here in a different, way.
<v Speaker 1>Right presumply by, land, yeah or OR i guess it
<v Speaker 1>could be bird. Migrations most of the bird migrations are
<v Speaker 1>north to, south not east to west across the. Oceans
<v Speaker 1>BUT i think Because i've thought about that for a
<v Speaker 1>long time. Too with, plants and you, know you'll have
<v Speaker 1>plants where the majority of the family is in The old,
<v Speaker 1>world and then there's a couple individuals that are in
<v Speaker 1>The new, world like in the you, know there's members
<v Speaker 1>Of ana Camp sarohtasy is a succulent family related to.
<v Speaker 1>Cacti most are in The Old, world but there's a
<v Speaker 1>handful of species, here you. Know and it's so at some,
<v Speaker 1>point and we know this from THE. Dna there was
<v Speaker 1>a dispersal event where they somehow ended up, here either
<v Speaker 1>by bird or land raft or. Something it's not as
<v Speaker 1>diverse here as it is back where it, originated but
<v Speaker 1>it's still. Here but you, know BUT i think everything
<v Speaker 1>eventually the dust, settles you. Know and and this is
<v Speaker 1>WHAT i tell people who are arguing with me about
<v Speaker 1>invasive species or don't believe it's a real. Thing you,
<v Speaker 1>know it'll adapt. Eventually And i'm, like well it, will,
<v Speaker 1>yeah but who knows how long it'll, take but it
<v Speaker 1>will certainly. Adapt something will evolve to keep it in.
<v Speaker 1>Check and that's why so many invasives are a, problem
<v Speaker 1>right because there's no fungi or insects to keep them
<v Speaker 1>in check that they have back. Home that's why Kid
<v Speaker 1>zu's a problem in The southeast and not In japan
<v Speaker 1>where it, evolved but because there's all these. Insects but
<v Speaker 1>so it'll happen. Eventually but in the, meantime like how
<v Speaker 1>many plants might go how many other things might go
<v Speaker 1>extinct and what? Exactly but mustard no, doubt like if
<v Speaker 1>humans quit bringing over any new, seeds it would certainly
<v Speaker 1>it would turn into a new. Species basically eventually.
<v Speaker 2>And things.
<v Speaker 3>And sort of in that sort of vein of, thought
<v Speaker 3>but kind of not, really but it just it reminded
<v Speaker 3>me of murder, hornets BECAUSE i mean that's what everyone
<v Speaker 3>knows them, as most, people so that's why'm going to
<v Speaker 3>call them. That but, like these are actually creatures that
<v Speaker 3>have a relationship with honeybees where they're native. To so
<v Speaker 3>LIKE i don't know if people aren't assuming or understanding
<v Speaker 3>why they specifically go after honey, bees it's because there's
<v Speaker 3>An asian there's Multiple asian honey, these and they control
<v Speaker 3>the population naturally where these they're. From so that WAS i,
<v Speaker 3>know it's considered an invasive creature because IT i guess
<v Speaker 3>kills an invasive, creature but their population control so they're
<v Speaker 3>really good for the. Ecosystems so BUT i also would not, say,
<v Speaker 3>hey bring over more of, them because we don't know
<v Speaker 3>the ramifications for, that because like there's there's what is
<v Speaker 3>In hawaii where they were like what were they trying
<v Speaker 3>to get rid? Of so they brought over like the,
<v Speaker 3>mongooses was it the toads or? Something and then instead
<v Speaker 3>of having like one invasive, creature they ended up having
<v Speaker 3>two because one was.
<v Speaker 2>Diurnal that one was.
<v Speaker 3>Abuturnal SO i wouldn't, say, like bring over more of these,
<v Speaker 3>hornets but Like i'm just, saying eventually something's gonna hopefully
<v Speaker 3>bounce them. Out but, yeah it was JUST i thought
<v Speaker 3>it was interesting that those hornets everyone was like just
<v Speaker 3>really hating on them when they were just.
<v Speaker 1>Cool. POPULATION i didn't know. That so they co. Evalved
<v Speaker 1>they basically co evalved with honey bees that was.
<v Speaker 2>There, yeah just to control the.
<v Speaker 3>Population so because, yeah the, Honeybees i'm specifically you're just
<v Speaker 3>going to stay in Southern.
<v Speaker 2>California there's like way too many honey bees.
<v Speaker 3>Here, yeah and there's creatures where these honey bees naturally
<v Speaker 3>evolved that.
<v Speaker 2>Evolved alongside, them and they population.
<v Speaker 3>Control like there's there's bees that are native to The
<v Speaker 3>United states that are population control for bees that are
<v Speaker 3>native here.
<v Speaker 2>Too.
<v Speaker 3>There, yeah they're called parasitic bees sklepto, parasites and sometimes people, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh they're bad, bees but, no they're like the lions and.
<v Speaker 3>Gazelles so the lions control the populations of the. Gazelle
<v Speaker 3>so there's they keep a certain population down so the
<v Speaker 3>gazell population doesn't, explode and they run out of. Resources but,
<v Speaker 3>yeah thirteen percent of bee species are parasites of other,
<v Speaker 3>bees and it's about population. Control and like here there's
<v Speaker 3>no natural predators for honey. BEES i mean there's there's,
<v Speaker 3>hummingbirds birds will get them sold diseases, grows which are
<v Speaker 3>From EUROPE i think also Are, yeah.
<v Speaker 1>It's just like everything's got to. Roll everything's in an
<v Speaker 1>important block in the in The jenga.
<v Speaker 2>Tower, yeah, yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Exactly it just depends What jenga, tower what eco, says
<v Speaker 1>what continental ecosystem involved. With but that's kind of know
<v Speaker 1>about more murder. Hornets, man that's. Cool is? That is
<v Speaker 1>that still like a thing that's going. On that's Very
<v Speaker 1>oh my.
<v Speaker 3>Gosh that was so it was kind of good and
<v Speaker 3>bad BECAUSE i felt like people were going outside and
<v Speaker 3>looking at wasps and, hornets but then everyone was, like,
<v Speaker 3>oh this this giant. Wasp it's a murder, hornet and
<v Speaker 3>they were only being SPOTTED i think In, Washington yeah yeah,
<v Speaker 3>yeah and then there are people in like The south
<v Speaker 3>there LIKE i just killed this giant thing.
<v Speaker 2>And then it was like a native. Something but, yeah
<v Speaker 2>there wasn't the population wasn't that, big AND i think
<v Speaker 2>they got rid of them pretty. Quickly but, YEAH i
<v Speaker 2>was just, like, yeah the. Name, yeah But i'm.
<v Speaker 1>So curious how they got rid of honeybees from The Channel.
<v Speaker 3>Islands oh so they ACTUALLY i actually talk about it
<v Speaker 3>in the. Book if you look at the GB so
<v Speaker 3>in the late eighties early, nineties they actually ACTUALLY i
<v Speaker 3>don't know IF i mentioned it in the, book but
<v Speaker 3>they Introduced vera mites.
<v Speaker 2>And they The artes killed the honey.
<v Speaker 1>Bees oh that's. Awesome that's all they had to. Do
<v Speaker 1>it was just introduced verromites to the colonies and.
<v Speaker 3>The, yeah and then they were just they died. Out and,
<v Speaker 3>yeah because it was, islands there wasn't people. More there
<v Speaker 3>weren't more people bringing over. HONEYBEES i think they're still
<v Speaker 3>On Catalina island IF i remember.
<v Speaker 4>Correctly but, yeah there's PROBABLY i guess there's probably less
<v Speaker 4>genetic diversity in honeybees here because you, know they all.
<v Speaker 1>It's only from a, however, men it's a more limited
<v Speaker 1>number of dispersal. Events it's by humans. Limited there's reduced genetic.
<v Speaker 1>Diversity is That is that true? Here do you know
<v Speaker 1>with honey?
<v Speaker 2>Bees you, KNOW i don't know that BECAUSE i don't
<v Speaker 2>really work with. Genetics, yeah.
<v Speaker 3>But, Yeah i'm not sure if there's new honey bees
<v Speaker 3>coming over From europe at all being brought over OR i,
<v Speaker 3>feel as far As i'm, aware there's only that One
<v Speaker 3>african subspecies m the scoot. At.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, YEAH i don't. Know that's that's a good. Question.
<v Speaker 1>So uh but as far as invasive plants or horticultural,
<v Speaker 1>PLANTS i, mean do you often see native bees on
<v Speaker 1>like shit like crape murder kind of hate crepe, myrtles
<v Speaker 1>like crape myrtles or or other stuff you, know like
<v Speaker 1>just native or invasive or horticultural trash or not Very.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah LIKE i don't know the scientific name for, it
<v Speaker 3>but like ice, PLANT i do see native bees on.
<v Speaker 2>It, yeah but it's JUST i feel like it's.
<v Speaker 3>Especially invasive plants that just kind of creep along the
<v Speaker 3>soil and like.
<v Speaker 2>Basically prevent the option of any other plants from. Growing. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>YEAH i do see them.
<v Speaker 3>That, yeah BUT i have yet to see a specialist.
<v Speaker 2>Pollinator, yeah is it one of? Those?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah how many are how many of the bees
<v Speaker 1>are generalists In? California the, Natives.
<v Speaker 2>Oh most of them are.
<v Speaker 3>GENERALISTS i want to say about eighty to sixty percent are.
<v Speaker 1>Generalists, okay so they'll go for anything that's got pollen
<v Speaker 1>and nectar of the most.
<v Speaker 2>Part, yeah are.
<v Speaker 1>THERE i Know asculus, californica the BUCK. I i've always
<v Speaker 1>heard it was toxic to. Honeybees is it? True do you?
<v Speaker 2>KNOW i don't know that the poll.
<v Speaker 1>Was, yeah, sure curious about. That, Okay, well if you're
<v Speaker 1>listening right, now you should google it because it's pretty
<v Speaker 1>cool if. So but, anyway, well thank you for your, Time,
<v Speaker 1>crystal And i'm grateful for. It and this was two
<v Speaker 1>hours and ten. Minutes and so where where can? People
<v Speaker 1>where can people check out your? Stuff you've got An instagram,
<v Speaker 1>page tell everybody what's what's going on?
<v Speaker 2>Here, yeah you.
<v Speaker 3>Could look me up On instagram ON B SIP B
<v Speaker 3>E e S I. P also my website is bsip dot,
<v Speaker 3>Com facebook and someone already TOOK B SIP I B sip.
<v Speaker 2>Online and the book you can get it wherever books are. Sold,
<v Speaker 2>yeah out.
<v Speaker 1>On Heyday, press WHICH i think is out Of, oakland
<v Speaker 1>right Or.
<v Speaker 2>Berkeley it's out Of. Berkeley.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah ACTUALLY i saw my book at RI i on
<v Speaker 3>the shelf for the first. Time i'm like, yeah and
<v Speaker 3>THEN i was, LIKE i was next to A, target
<v Speaker 3>SO i was, like let me see if it's At,
<v Speaker 3>target and it was sold. Out so it's At target
<v Speaker 3>again When who knows when this will, release but it
<v Speaker 3>should be there.
<v Speaker 2>Again yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Wherever, yeah go to go to your small, bookstore your community.
<v Speaker 3>Bookstores you can get it there as. Well if it's
<v Speaker 3>not on the, shelf you can order it online from. Them.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah bookshop dot org is a good is a good
<v Speaker 1>ordering site. TOO i was referring people to that instead Of.
<v Speaker 2>Scammazon yeah, yeah that's uh.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah scamazon doesn't need any more. Money, well thank you so.
<v Speaker 1>MUCH i really appreciate you and your your stuff is
<v Speaker 1>great and your photographs are awesome and thanks for your.
<v Speaker 2>Time, oh thank you so. Much