#302 - Timeless Firearms: 1911, Glock, Winchester and More

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You hold a cold single action up
anywhere in the world.

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You know that tribesmen in New Guinea.

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It's good to say cowboy.

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Yeah. Cowboy gun.

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Yeah.

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Hi there.

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And welcome to the guns
Magazine Presents the Guns podcast.

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Thanks for joining us here
on one of the world's

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biggest gun talk programs,
both audio and video.

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As we chat with the interesting folks
who make up the world of shooting,

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I'm guns magazine editor Brant Wheat
welcoming you.

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And today we're going to talk about,
I think, pretty interesting topic.

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And we're going to talk about
timeless firearms that are still in use.

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And, you know, when we, we stop
and think about the old guns,

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you're thinking, well, that's nice.

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I saw one at the gun shop,
but there's there's

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still a lot of them that maybe you hadn't
considered, that, are still a good choice

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no matter what you're doing.

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So make sure you like and subscribe.

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That's how we, justify our existence.

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And today, my guest is Roy Huntington.

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I know that's a big shock.

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He's our unofficial co-host. Welcome, Roy.

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I feel welcome.

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All right.

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Well, good.
I'll send some pastries over, but,

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Well, like I said, today's topic,
timeless firearms.

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And I got a whole list of them.

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And, you know, really,
that's almost the unofficial theme here

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at, guns magazine presents
the Guns podcast.

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Or as I like to call it, Thud Land.

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As we've accused
been accused of being or the FUD Kingdom.

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But, there are still a lot of, old guns
that are still a good choice.

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No matter what you're doing.
So we're going to run down a list.

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But before we get to the specifics,
any thoughts on on.

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I got to be careful here.

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Old guns that are still relevant

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and useful today and try to keep it under,
like, 2 or 3 hours.

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Right?

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Well, I'm sure we'll get into it.

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But I know, and maybe this is

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another show of the guns
that tried and failed, you know,

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I mean, I think
especially as being in the industry,

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you see these huge roll outs
and then cue the crickets.

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You know, but meanwhile.

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The Glocks are still around,
Colt's are still around.

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Smith and Wesson
revolvers are still around, you know,

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the Remington's,

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you know, these iconic firearms
and firearm designs remain,

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and I think we both know why,
because sometimes change

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just for the sake of change, doesn't work.

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You know, it's like if you have something
that works perfectly fine

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and then you change it for no reason
whatsoever.

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Yep. Now people are offended because
they just bought the old one, you know?

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Are you saying that theirs isn't any good
here?

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You know?

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So, so, yeah,
they a lot of them have come and go, but,

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there's a lot who are that are still here.

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They're still here for reasons.

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Exactly.

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And, and I did write down
some of those reasons, and I kind of

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wanted to go through that,
reliability and simplicity.

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Things were, were maybe, bulkier, heavier,

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but they were
they worked because they were simple.

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And, you know, sometimes

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we've all had, guns or accessories
that were maybe a little overengineered

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and fragile and complex, and, you know,
the old stuff tended not to be that way.

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It it had to work because they,
they couldn't,

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get tolerances down
to, you know, half of a whisker.

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And, so it had to be a little more,

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bigger, robust, less, close tolerances.

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So the reliability can be there.

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Provided the,
the firearm, you know, was taken care of.

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And they tend to be simpler in general.

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Familiarity.

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That was a, a thought
that we kind of take it for granted.

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But if you throw an 870 into my hands,
I don't care

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what vintage,
maybe even what accessories you put on it.

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But I can run that thing
pretty well because, as I've said before,

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back in my days as a baby cop at the,
the police academy,

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we had to push on the earth
if we couldn't field strip that thing.

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And. And Claire jams, you know,
blindfolded in the dark kind of thing.

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So, if somebody has been carrying
a lever action,

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you know, for 40 or 50 years,
they're probably pretty good at it.

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So that knowledge does carry over,
not just to that individual,

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but to the group as a whole.

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So, looking at a couple of
the other ideas, and then the tradition,

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you know, as we say, guns should be fun.

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They're one letter from fun.

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So if the tradition makes you feel warm
and fuzzy

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about that firearm and it doesn't have to,
that may not be a criteria for you.

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But I'm here to tell you,
as you get older and more experienced,

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the the tradition behind it, the story
behind the gun, who carried the gun,

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who maybe carried that particular gun,
those things really do matter.

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So anything on this that Roy.

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No, I mean, I think you're right.

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One of the primary reasons

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why classic designs remain is
because people feel good about it.

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And feeling good about it is
a significant reason why people own guns.

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I mean, not
all of us have to have a gun, you know?

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And so we do it because we like it
and because we enjoy it.

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So why would I own something
that I don't like and enjoy?

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You know,

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I mean, I have,
I have working guns, you know,

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I have a rusty $75 Marlin, 22 rifle
I keep in my easy go, right?

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Yeah, I it's just a tool.

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It's a it's a nail. Right.

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I know if, if I,
if I dropped it in the pond, I'd go

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oh I guess I better go
get another one, you know.

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Right.

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But then I have guns that do have

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that sense of attachment and,
it's like when I pick one up,

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it starts a continuous loop video
in my mind of memories and feelings and,

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you know, and likes and,
you know, all that kind of stuff.

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And I think most of these iconic designs
that we're talking about,

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is does that you

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know, I mean, to this day,
if I pick up a guy,

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world War 219 1145,

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you know, a Parker Rice, genuine World
War Two veteran gun.

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And I load it with hard ball
and rack the slide

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and snick the safety on
and put it on my desk.

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Here.

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I feel pretty good.

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Yeah.

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You know, it's like,
this is going to protect me.

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Yeah. You know. Yeah.

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Because it's protected us for 115 years,
I think, give or take a little bit.

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So. Exactly.

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And you know, that was actually going
to be the first one on the list.

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But we don't necessarily have
to talk about it because it's pretty clear

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the 1911 is still relevant today
to a lot of us.

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I've got one sitting right over here
on my desk, and I carry it a lot.

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It's an officer's model.

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But, yeah, the 1911 is probably the
perfect example of what I'm talking about.

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A gun that, by all rights, probably
should have been buried in the past,

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but it's still being manufactured
by countless manufacturers.

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A lot of people still choose it as their,
carry or use weapon of choice.

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Oh, I said weapon. That's bad.

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But it's a good gun, and it still works
today.

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And I don't know of anybody
that picks up a 45 and says, well,

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I'm under gun,
but I'm going to carry it anyway.

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So it's a good gun,
but I've actually got one.

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I'm going to shock you here, Roy.

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Okay. You ready for this?

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Are you sitting down?

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I know you are,
but I'm going to say the Glock 17.

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And when you stop and think about it, 40

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some years ago,
that thing, really got popularized.

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And as we've talked countless times, I'm

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not a huge fan of polymer guns and plastic
guns, black plastic tactical.

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But I own a lot of them.

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And I, I freely admit,
and I wanted to start this list

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with that's an oldie, that's a classic,
and you can buy them virtually any place.

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You can find

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some really old and beat up ones
because they've been around that long,

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but they're obviously are a well designed,

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well thought out, gun
that, still works today.

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And you never see people
go, wow, it's just a Glock.

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You know,

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they work and I think they're going
to be around another 100 plus years.

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So I don't want to beat that point too
much.

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But, I also wanted to point out
that even though we are,

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royalty in the food Kingdom,

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we recognize that,
you know, things like Glocks

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that have been around
stood the test of time.

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They're timeless classics.

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So anything you want to add to that?

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Well, you know,
even if you're a Dodge fan,

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you have to acknowledge
the fact that a Ford F-150,

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is in the same category.

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You know, you may not like them.

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You would never own one,
but they're iconic,

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you know, and they have a legacy.

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You know, personally,

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I look at a Glock as I look at a ten
millimeter Harbor freight,

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wrench.

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You know, I mean, I miss nothing

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really special about it,
but it certainly does the job.

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Yeah.

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I mean,
if if I don't have the same feeling

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if I load a Glock and put it on my desk
here, as I do

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when I take that old Colt and load it
and put it on the desk, you know, just.

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And I don't know if it's
because I have more of an affiliation

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or because of the historical significance

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of the 1911 or a pre-war.

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Smith and Wesson had ejector revolver
or something like that single action Colt.

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But but you're right.

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I mean, it is, you know, iconic.

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I mean, I think in the manner that

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70s, late 60s and 70s muscle cars are,

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you know, I mean, other than the
Glock may be more practical,

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you know?

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Well,

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I tell you, you know, what blows my mind
when I was putting this list together

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is there are people that are listening
or watching us right now

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who are of that age that they grew up
with, that truly.

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That's that's what they think of when when
they were a kid and dad was showing him

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the guns or taking him out to teach him
how to shoot.

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Probably used a Glock, you know, 17 or 19.

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And it's it's
hard for me to wrap my head around that

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because I was already shooting a lot,

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when we really started carrying semi-auto

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and, it it's, it's eye

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opening to me to think of the folks that
and they're not young at this point,

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that grew up and and look at those

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as, you know, a with fond nostalgia.

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So I wanted to add those.

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Yes, we are the kings of the Fudd world,
but, we recognize what

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what is a timeless classic and Glock
certainly is, but I can go ahead.

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I just want to say if

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if you are one of those people,
please put it in the comments.

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Because what I'm curious to know
is, do you have that

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same sense of attachment and fondness?

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In other words,
I mean, I understand if you have inherited

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your father's first Glock 17, I mean,
I would assume you would hold that it

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it is with a certain level of esteem,
I think, you know, but I'm not sure. And,

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you know, if you inherited your father's
1911 that he carried in World War two

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or you inherited your
dad's, your dad's Glock that he carried

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as a policeman somewhere, do does
that have the same significance to you?

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Yeah.

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And if it does educate us. So.

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Yeah, exactly.

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But now now I'm going to get royal,
as I like to say, hot and frothy

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and we may have to throw some cold
water on him at some point, but the next,

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gun on the list is, I think we can
all agree,

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is Smith and Wesson keyframes.

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The basic design's been around
since the late 1800s,

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and they're still going strong today.

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They've been through their ups
and downs, but,

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Roy, wax poetic about Smith and Wesson.

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Double actions. Boy, you know, it's.

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You're right, though.

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I mean, they
they wrote the book literally, on that.

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You know, what I find is that there are
there are two kinds of shooters families.

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00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,640
There are households
that grew up with cults and

236
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:46,320
and then the

237
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,320
rest of their lives, all the kids,

238
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,680
grandkids,
everybody, they're cult shooters.

239
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,080
You know, they don't know anything
about Smith and Wesson revolvers.

240
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,800
They don't even look at them in the gun
stores, you know.

241
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,960
And the same thing applies, though

242
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,960
some of the lessons
I grew up in a Smith Wesson house,

243
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,520
you know, so my first Smith

244
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,040
and Wesson revolver was a six inch pre-war
model ten.

245
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,480
You know, a hand ejector and and followed
by hundreds and hundreds ever since then.

246
00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:20,000
So I think either of those

247
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,400
would certainly qualify
deep, deep, deep into this category.

248
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,840
You know, and I think
for a lot of reasons, I exposure to them,

249
00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,160
you know, who here is carrying
Smith and Wesson revolvers as policemen,

250
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:34,280
grandfathers, great

251
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,040
grandfathers, you know, the military.

252
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,840
I mean, the list is just endless.

253
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:42,200
And so,

254
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,720
yeah, I mean, it's like seeing a picture
of a model T Ford and a modern Ford.

255
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,680
I mean, it's the same thing, you know?

256
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:52,680
So we have from the beginning
all the way till now. Yep.

257
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,880
And you already touched on the next item
on the list, which is, is Colt,

258
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,840
double action revolvers, the, detective
special, the Python.

259
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,640
Yeah, those are a little newer
designs per se, but obviously

260
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:11,040
Colt has been going since the 1870s, but,
Colt firearms are still there.

261
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,160
And when you were saying that, Roy, you
know, families are either Chevy or Ford,

262
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,640
Smith and Wesson or Colt,
and you'll get this.

263
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,480
You're either a canon or a Nikon shooter,
and never the twain shall meet.

264
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,920
It's exactly the same.

265
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,680
Yeah, it's exactly the same.

266
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,120
I go ahead.

267
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,280
Oh, I was just going to move on.

268
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,000
But if you've got, words of wisdom, please
continue.

269
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,480
Well, you know, Colt was fortunate
because, of course, they had their iconic

270
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,520
black powder guns,
you know, the 1851 Navy and the 1860s.

271
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,360
And those guns,
the Walker Cole, of course.

272
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,760
And then once the cartridge guns came out,

273
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,800
they had the most iconic Colt ever,
the Colt single action.

274
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,400
You hold a Colt single action up
anywhere in the world,

275
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,440
you know, and a tribesman in New Guinea
is going to say cowboy.

276
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,400
Yeah. Cowboy gun. Yeah.

277
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,600
And, this is Colt 1911.

278
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:05,160
Same thing.

279
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:05,760
So yeah.

280
00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,640
So yeah, they have their big juju
when it comes to all that.

281
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,320
And, you know, with Smith and Wesson,
I think the model 29 dirty Harry gun

282
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,000
is, is that I mean, Smith and Wesson
was on the radar, of course.

283
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,520
But I think when that movie came out
and the model 29 was the star,

284
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,040
suddenly Smith

285
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,480
and Wesson got a focus of attention
that it never had before.

286
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:29,760
Agreed.

287
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,400
And I don't, and it hasn't lost it since.

288
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,080
Yep, yep.

289
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,440
Well, we're
going to move away from the handguns.

290
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:37,440
There are there certainly.

291
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,720
And and let us know in the comments.

292
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,640
Or you can hit me at editor at guns
podcast. Us.

293
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,080
I'd be interested
in hearing what you think.

294
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,720
Certain handguns fall into this category.

295
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:49,880
The next thing on the list.

296
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,880
I'm not going to beat this to a point,
and I'm not even going

297
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,200
to throw it to you, Roy,
unless you have something strong to say.

298
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,120
But the AR 15, the M16.

299
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,360
It's it's pushing 60 years,
and it certainly is America's rifle.

300
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,200
And ad nauseum, we have said we like them,

301
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,320
we shoot them,
but they they don't give us warm fuzzies.

302
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,400
But I do have to agree.

303
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,680
It's it's a timeless American classic.

304
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,320
And, the military
is kind of moving on from it,

305
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,680
but it's going to be around for a long,
long, long time.

306
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,680
So, Colt, there are 15 fans.

307
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,920
M16 fans. Yeah, yeah. Okay,
we got it. Good.

308
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,120
Good on you.

309
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,360
The next one, though,
is, comrade, is the AK 47.

310
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,400
It's been around a long time since
just after World War two.

311
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,680
And I gotta admit,
I am not an AK fan at all.

312
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,560
I know, Jeremy Clough,
one of our longtime writers

313
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,520
is, dialing the phone as I, as I speak

314
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,280
to tell me how wrong I am
because he is a huge fan of the AK.

315
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,760
But, there's no denying
that it's a classic.

316
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,720
And there's probably I.

317
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:53,960
I've seen various numbers.

318
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:54,920
There's a lot of,

319
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,080
Ars in the United States, but
there's a whole heck of a lot more acres

320
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,360
across the world.

321
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,040
So that that family of designs
is, absolutely timeless.

322
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:09,040
And I got to admit, as as Jeremy Clough
will attest, it's still a,

323
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,800
a good gun of choice for certain things,
especially for self-defense.

324
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,920
So we
we never really talk about the AK here.

325
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,720
Though, you know, and I
if for me personally, part of it is that,

326
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,520
oh, it's a evil gun, you know,
because the communists did it.

327
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:26,160
And everything.

328
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:26,640
And you,

329
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,720
you always see the people in Africa
who are killing each other, holding

330
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,880
taped up, you know. Yeah. Painted a case.

331
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,880
And so it kind of
has a bad reputation, but,

332
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,520
I think a good quality AK, you know, one
that's

333
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,000
made in Europe as opposed to China,
for instance, and stuff like that.

334
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:45,640
I've shot them.

335
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,640
The Vo had a basically a copy.

336
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,560
And, you're high quality.
They're good guns.

337
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,360
They shoot. Well,
I've shot a lot of full auto ones.

338
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:55,560
Very interesting.

339
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,040
You know, with that cartridge
you can kind of

340
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,040
write your name with it almost,
you know, little short bursts.

341
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,640
I can see it.

342
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,320
It's a
but to me, though, it's still a tool.

343
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,160
And, and

344
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,600
so I don't look at an AK and say,
you know, and wax poetic apologies

345
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:15,760
to Jeremy know, but but it I
it is an effective tool.

346
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,040
And, you know,

347
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,800
the only thing is I have done accuracy
testing with him, and, you know, the

348
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,560
I can't remember the details,
but I'm sure someone will correct us.

349
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,680
But, initially, you're, like,
six inches at 100

350
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,280
yards was well within what an AK was.

351
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,600
Could do. You know what that was?

352
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,760
But probably in the real world,
that's perfectly acceptable, you know?

353
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,760
I mean, what more do you need than that?

354
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,680
And, so, yeah.

355
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,960
So I can say this, though,
I've never owned one.

356
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,360
Yeah.

357
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:49,720
I've only had one briefly.

358
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,200
And, you know, for me,

359
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,160
the only thing I really appreciate
about the AK

360
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,800
is the, the, the simplistic design,

361
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:01,320
that, that they made work.

362
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,280
I mean, it was really designed
to be mass produced and as we joke.

363
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:06,520
But it's kind of true,

364
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,520
you know, they're making them
in caves in Afghanistan to this day.

365
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,880
And, there's a certain,

366
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,160
it gets a couple of style points
for that simplicity,

367
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,560
for serving the purpose,
which I agree with you, Roy,

368
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800
in most cases is evil, but,

369
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,320
it's still a gotta give it props.

370
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,440
It's still a viable gun.

371
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,560
And, Jeremy, I'm sorry, but, we at least

372
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,560
got to mention it in because there's
an awful lot of them out there.

373
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,480
It's.

374
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,440
Well, you know, it.

375
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,400
It's such a Russian gun, you know?

376
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,520
I mean, you look at it.

377
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,120
Reminds me of a T-34 tank, right?

378
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:44,320
You know, I mean, that they're just
they're not Polish.

379
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,000
They're.

380
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,280
I mean, they just literally
they're a brick.

381
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,520
They live like a SJS, right?

382
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,480
Yeah. I did own a,

383
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,600
It was a Russian S-Class.

384
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,560
It was actually really well made.

385
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,560
It was, you know, nicely made gun.

386
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,520
But again, it was just it was a wrench,

387
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,440
you know, and the,
you know, with the terrible wood.

388
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,440
And it was just made to do a job,
you know, kind of like

389
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,680
Russian handguns are that way, too.

390
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,680
So, Tokarev pistols, for instance.

391
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,920
Yeah. Their whole own category kind of.

392
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,640
And I know there were collectors
and people were passionate about it,

393
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,880
and I'm sure we'll hear about it.

394
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,600
We're idiots because we don't understand.

395
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,640
We do understand,
but we just don't have that gene.

396
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:28,400
Okay.

397
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:34,200
So and this next one kind is in
the same category as a military gun, but,

398
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:40,720
it is basically the the Big Daddy, the
original gangster of bolt action rifles.

399
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,800
And that's the the Mauser 98
and that series, its immediate

400
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,920
predecessors and,
everything that's descended from that,

401
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160
it's still considered
especially, I know, a dangerous game.

402
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:55,120
You know,

403
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:58,920
folks
really liked the design, controlled feed.

404
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,320
They were doing it right.

405
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,440
And I think it helped that the
the Germans were the originators

406
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,440
and they had a great tradition
or still have a great tradition

407
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,720
of building quality equipment.

408
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,040
If the Russians had designed the 98,

409
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,040
it probably would have been popular
because it probably wouldn't work.

410
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,440
But I mean, let's let's call it what it
is, the Germans know how to build stuff.

411
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,720
And, but even today
and there was an incident recently,

412
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:29,400
I think we all know that, apparently,
apparently, 98 action was used.

413
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,480
So they're very clearly still a relevant
firearm today.

414
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,400
Well, if it wasn't for that, there
probably would not be bolt

415
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,400
action hunting rifles of any kind, period.

416
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,600
I mean, you know,
there were some early the, the,

417
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:48,160
you know, Bedford, the Leon Fields,
there were some other,

418
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,320
you know, but really most of those came
from the interest

419
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,960
and ideas that were generated
by the very earliest bolt action Mauser.

420
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,240
You know, just when the first time
one of those opened up, the bolt

421
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,760
and fed from,
whatever kind of magazine everyone else,

422
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,920
excuse me, took notice.

423
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,920
You know, and continue to do so today.

424
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,800
So. No, you're right.

425
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,800
It I don't think it gets any more iconic
than that.

426
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,800
Yeah.

427
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,960
And okay, when when you talk about icon
and we've said before,

428
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,520
we try to avoid that
because everything's iconic nowadays

429
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,360
and very few things actually are.

430
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,280
But this one, this is an icon.

431
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,920
Like you said, Roy, you show the tribesmen
a, single action army

432
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,200
and they'll say, oh, cowboy gun.

433
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:40,400
You show him this gun and it's the
I've got the Winchester 94 on the list.

434
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,400
But really, that represents
Winchester rifles in general.

435
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,120
The 94 was, the most, commercially
successful, still produced today.

436
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,640
We're actually in the middle of a lever
gun resurgence.

437
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,760
Marlin certainly makes good stuff,
but it's it's the model 94

438
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,960
that really kind of typifies that entire,
let me use a big word aunt archetype.

439
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,760
And, you know what
more we've talked about?

440
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,480
Lever and lever, guns and lever love.

441
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,200
I don't know what more I can really say
other than they're still making them.

442
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,480
They're still popular.

443
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,120
I've owned a bunch. I've shot a bunch.

444
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:16,760
That was the first high powered rifle
I ever shot.

445
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,360
So, they.

446
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,960
I don't think anybody would argue, the
point of including it in our list today.

447
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,120
No. And I, for me,
a lot of it is the heritage.

448
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,840
I mean,
because when I pick up a barrel of 94,

449
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,560
I, I go back 100 years, you know,

450
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,480
and so you
it's like you can feel that legacy

451
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,280
and the history and the gun
when your hand closes around the receiver.

452
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,560
I don't know.

453
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,480
It's, cold.

454
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,480
Had an ad a million years ago, and it was.

455
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,160
It was a cowboy.

456
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,080
And he was sitting around a campfire,
and he was holding a single action.

457
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,240
Right. And it was real simple.

458
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,000
I don't remember it exactly,
but it said a snap of a twig.

459
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,000
The darkness
outside of the fire ring cold.

460
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,600
And then confidence.

461
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,720
Yeah, right.

462
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,400
And a 94 does that for me.

463
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,080
I mean, those are the I have two of them
here that I built cut down guns.

464
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,760
And I mean, if there was a noise outside
right now I'm three steps away from one.

465
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:22,520
Yeah.

466
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,520
And that's the one I would pick
up, you know.

467
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,400
So. Yep. Yeah, yeah.

468
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,440
Hey. Sidebar here.

469
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,480
Roy, I, we've been talking about this
for a couple of months,

470
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,760
but we got to come out sometime soon.

471
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,960
You know what? My truck gun.

472
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,040
I've said it's an old, 1970s model
94 that I bought.

473
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:38,760
Real. Right.

474
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,440
I think it's got a 20 inch.

475
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,160
Maybe.

476
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,080
Let's cut that sucker down
to about 16.5. And.

477
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,440
Yeah, I know,
some people say it's bastardized

478
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,480
and making tactical,
but that's my truck gun because it doesn't

479
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,640
scare people as badly
as pulling out an AR platform.

480
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,880
The 3030 cartridge
is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

481
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,080
And, I just I have a lot of faith
and confidence in it, but, yeah,

482
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,560
if that barrel was a little bit shorter,
we might be able to do something.

483
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:08,840
So we could do that.

484
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,680
We'll make a video
and then, embarrass ourselves, you know?

485
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,960
So I think it's a good idea,
but no, I it is.

486
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,960
And I'll use the iconic word again. Yeah.

487
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:20,760
But it is.

488
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,440
It can I say one more thing? Yeah.

489
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,920
Even people who don't really like them,

490
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,760
it's still like.

491
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,240
Yeah, they kind of go, yeah, okay.

492
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,560
Yeah.

493
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,840
Well,
you know, my first experience shooting

494
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,200
a high powered rifle when a friend's dad
said, you want to shoot this?

495
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,600
And I'm like, oh, I can shoot that.

496
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,040
And I was, I don't know, I was 8
or 10 at the time and it scared me.

497
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,200
But I had to do it because that's,
you know, that's what John Wayne carries.

498
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,360
And, yeah, even even non shooters,
the I'm scared of guns.

499
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,080
You want to shoot it. Yeah.

500
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,880
It's it's it has that kind of effect.

501
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,160
Now this next gun
has this kind of effect on you Roy.

502
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,160
And it it is certainly iconic also.

503
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,760
And it's, it's unleash the Ruger 1022.

504
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,280
I think you were the one that said

505
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,640
everybody needs to own a 1022
or multiple ten, 20 Dos.

506
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,280
I think everybody does that with,
you know.

507
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,560
Yeah, I mean, I remember
when there were $65 brand new, amazing.

508
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,040
I know it was just like it
competed with the Marlin Model 60.

509
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:29,920
Yeah.

510
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,160
Which arguably should probably be
on our list.

511
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,720
Talk about you know, that's a good one.
I never thought about that. Yeah.

512
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,960
I mean, there's there's still millions
of them resting slowly,

513
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,040
rusting away,
you know, behind kitchen doors.

514
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:41,640
Yeah, yeah.

515
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:42,680
And stuff like that.

516
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,480
But, but yeah,
I think a ten, 22 again to me,

517
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,520
it's a little bit
more of a tool than anything.

518
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,200
I mean,
I do like what you can do with them.

519
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,760
Companies like Volt ports and which
I think my hat says for ports and I think,

520
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,440
but yeah, it just, I

521
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,320
think it did the,
you know, they do things to 1022.

522
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,600
Is it with 20 1022
that that really changes things.

523
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,080
And to me, that was when you
when you look at one of those

524
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,080
kind of ten, 20 twos,
that's something different, you know.

525
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,920
But when you see that plain Jane 1022

526
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,920
stock fixed sights for sale at Walmart,

527
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:25,160
you know, for $189,
you know, that's it's a wrench, you know.

528
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:25,520
Yeah.

529
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,560
I mean, it's a it's an
I don't think it's a good

530
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,080
first gun for kids
because it teaches them bad things.

531
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,200
You know,
it's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

532
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,920
Nobody's using their sights. Nobody's.

533
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,600
Everybody's getting into trouble.

534
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,240
So, But I think it is a good

535
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,640
first sort of real gun for a kid

536
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,760
who's cut his teeth on a single shot,
bolt action rifle.

537
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,920
Yeah, yeah, that's
probably America's best next gun.

538
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:52,760
That's a very good point.

539
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,920
Yeah, I should be a Ruger ad.

540
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,000
America's best next gun.

541
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,160
Paul.

542
00:27:59,160 --> 00:27:59,960
And the folks over there.

543
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,880
Yeah. America's best next gun.

544
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,960
But, you know, something else about
the 1022 is, you know, that we always joke

545
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,320
that the AR platform is, Legos for adults
or Tinker Toys for adults.

546
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,000
The 1022 I would actually say may.

547
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Well, maybe they have as many, accessories
because I know I've built and tinkered

548
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,480
and taken down and rebuilt and,

549
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,880
you know, the the cost is what's nice.

550
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,120
And being a 22, it's, it's a little easier

551
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:33,120
in terms of,
the mechanical abilities, but.

552
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,680
Yeah, if you like tinkering,
and messing around and putting accessories

553
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,600
and taking them off
and all that, you cannot beat the 1022.

554
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,840
They remind me of,
as that old adage about the guy

555
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,680
picks up, a hatchet
and he says, you know what?

556
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,320
This hatchet
has been in the family for 150 years.

557
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,960
And you go, really?

558
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,960
Guy looks really good.

559
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,880
Well, you know, we've had to replace
the handle a few times.

560
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,840
Yeah.
And we replaced the head a few times.

561
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,080
Yeah.

562
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,160
You know, but it's, it's this hatchet
that has been in our family and I know

563
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,400
I have 1 or 2, you know, it's a Ruger 1022
rifle that you buy, right.

564
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,720
And then you replace the barrel
and you replace the stock

565
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,160
and you replace the bolt, and you replace
the action, you replace the sights,

566
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,960
you know, and then you just barely
have that little aluminum receiver.

567
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:23,640
Right? Yeah.

568
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,280
And then eventually
you replace that with another one.

569
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600
And so is that the same?

570
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,000
This is I've had this gun in the family
for 50 years, you know.

571
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,880
But I got to tell you,
I was watching a video last night.

572
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,880
And this will not interest the hardcore
shooters, but maybe other people.

573
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,960
The guy, in the video was used
that exact same analogy

574
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:49,320
because he had a, early 60s,
I think it was a Gibson SG, and he took it

575
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:49,920
all apart.

576
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,920
He bought it looked awful,
and it had been butchered up.

577
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,640
So badly that he had to root out a whole
bunch of wood and all this kind of stuff.

578
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,600
And he said, okay, the
the guitar is mostly mine.

579
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,000
So is it still the Gibson SG
or is it my creation?

580
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,960
It looks like it did come
from the factory, but I mean, probably two

581
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,080
thirds of the wood had to be routed out
and removed and new mahogany placed in.

582
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,040
So that's a funny concept.

583
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,880
Yeah, we replaced everything,
but it's it's still an original.

584
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:20,080
All right.

585
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Well, you know what I find amazing and
you do the same thing with AR fifteens,

586
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,400
is that you can build a Ruger 1022
and have it have not a single Ruger park.

587
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,200
Yeah, exactly.
You know, you could do the same.

588
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,400
You know, you build every flavor AR
you want to and never once

589
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
used the Colt part. Yep yep. Yep.

590
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,240
Well the final thing on the list is
we got to include the shotguns.

591
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,680
I'm I'm a huge shotty fanatic,
and I think they're the next thing.

592
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,120
They're going to be the next big thing

593
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,920
that we all suddenly discover in the gun
journalism industry.

594
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:52,880
Shotguns.

595
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,160
It's a new thing. Well,
they never went away.

596
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,280
And like I said,
for any cop of a certain age, they

597
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,280
they were your,
you know, your big firepower.

598
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,400
And, I had trouble trying to decide,

599
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,400
I think the 870, the, Remington 870

600
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,640
is certainly considered the classic,
but I got to say, the Mossberg 500,

601
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,080
did I?

602
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,200
I'm going to put them both on that
same pedestal because I think the,

603
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,600
the the Remington's a little bit older.

604
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,560
And the Mossberg, came a little bit
after that, but they've been everything

605
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,680
from, nice, hunting focused guns to tack

606
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,600
to cool, shots and everything in between.

607
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,200
And they're still, made today,
still widely used today.

608
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,840
There's a bazillion of them out there.

609
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,840
So the, the Remington,

610
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,160
the Moss ten or whatever.

611
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,880
It's still a viable,

612
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,880
gun for for hunting or for self-defense.

613
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,440
You and I both, you know, grew up with him
on the police department mostly.

614
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,000
I didn't have one
until I joined the police department.

615
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,760
Then I bought my own little short barrel.

616
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:02,560
You know, riot gun. Yeah.

617
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,400
No, I agree,

618
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,680
we just have a process that every time
the guns were assigned to the police cars.

619
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,240
And so when you would change a shift
and go out

620
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,240
and take over the car for your shift,

621
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,560
we had a process where you're supposed
to take the shotgun out,

622
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,160
and then you had to do a five point
safety check.

623
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,520
So you took the barrel off.

624
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,360
You did this.
You looked made sure. You got progressive.

625
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,040
Oh yeah.

626
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,480
We had to put a penny on the bolt
and click it to make sure that it

627
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:31,600
had a firing pin.

628
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,360
When put it together,
then you would load it

629
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,080
with your own ammunition that you you've
always had and put it back in the car.

630
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,600
And so it was like, yeah, that was cool.
Everybody.

631
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,600
You know, it was always
this little ceremony that you always did

632
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,200
because everybody who would unload them,
of course, at the end of your shift,

633
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,880
put it back in the car and,

634
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,080
but we found out it was where
and the guns out, you know, like so fast.

635
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,280
Yeah.

636
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,080
And so after a couple of years,
we had all these loosey goosey 1870s

637
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:58,800
that around right around and everything.

638
00:32:58,800 --> 00:32:59,680
So but you know what?

639
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:00,480
They always work.

640
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,240
There's never anything about it, you know.

641
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,840
And I remember there was this one old guy.

642
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,480
It was old cop.

643
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,000
I think he'd.

644
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,640
Come on, let's see.

645
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,240
This would have been 75 for me.

646
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,320
He had come on in the 50s. Early 50s.

647
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,560
Oh, my.

648
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,360
An old mossy back.

649
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:19,080
Yeah.

650
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,600
And he called it a dozen gauge.

651
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,800
And so came and and I always

652
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,720
I just always liked that it because it
just like give me that dozen gauge boy.

653
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,000
You know.

654
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,240
Yeah.

655
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,360
Well I was going to say that, you know,
you guys were really progressive.

656
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,240
We took the other
tact. We had those upright,

657
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:38,720
racks that

658
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,720
had a secret button
that you could release.

659
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,960
You have a hole that goes down into to
what do you what what ends up happening?

660
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:47,880
Sometimes you just.

661
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,240
Put that under. Was your paper ashtray.

662
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,760
That was another reason
why we had to do this.

663
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,280
Because you say. Exactly.

664
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,640
They'd stuffed napkins down,
and it's like, really?

665
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,080
Really.

666
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,880
You know, you know, I was
I was that young tactical officer

667
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,920
because I periodically took it out
to make sure it didn't either blow up,

668
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,920
or my first shot on a bad guy
was straw paper, you know.

669
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,920
You know. Yeah. Well, I actually bought,

670
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,080
What was.
I don't remember who made it farm.

671
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,160
It was a smith. And Wesson 3000.

672
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,480
It was a pump gun, right? Yeah.

673
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,080
And they authorized it.

674
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,640
And so there was a while there were

675
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,640
we were allowed to carry our own shotgun
if we wanted to.

676
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,920
So I bought a Smith Wesson
3000 and tuned up.

677
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,200
It worked really good.

678
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,800
And then I got a, a bandolier and.

679
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,440
Yeah, loaded it up
with, like, a dozen buckshot

680
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,040
and some slug and some regular birdshot
because you never know.

681
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,360
So I put that in the rack and hang the,
you know, bandolier around it.

682
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:51,160
Yeah. Put the issue gun in the trunk.

683
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,560
And, so that solved all those problems
of scary people

684
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,560
putting straws down
and all that kind of stuff.

685
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:01,120
Well, I got to say, and this, this could
easily turn into I don't know that

686
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,880
we've ever done a just shotgun episode,
but we need to do that. But

687
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,320
first
of all, I came up with a brilliant idea.

688
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,560
Prophylactics would keep the guy.

689
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,560
Well, that's not going to happen, though.

690
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,320
But the other thing was
when you said bandolier,

691
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,400
you know, back in the days
before the sidesaddle and all that stuff

692
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,600
in the stocks, the speed feed stocks
and all that, you know, I went to, to

693
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,600
I think Kmart at that time
and bought one of those elastic

694
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,120
the whole, sling.

695
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,360
Couldn't think of the word

696
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,240
that had, I forget what, 25 rounds
and they made the gun.

697
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,600
I mean, it was literally
weighed more than a boat anchor.

698
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,640
Yeah, yeah.

699
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,360
I was actually on the sling. Exactly.

700
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,400
Yeah, yeah.

701
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,880
You know, if you slung.

702
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,120
The gun, you looked like a, a general
from south of the border

703
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,760
or a bandit because you had all this ammo,
but it was reassuring.

704
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,280
You took the gun out and provided
you had enough upper body strength,

705
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,360
you know,
it was basically a crew served weapon

706
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,800
at that point,
but you weren't gonna run out of ammo.

707
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,320
You. You know, you had 25oz of lead.

708
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,000
You could throw down range.

709
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,560
That's very funny. You're right.

710
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,280
I mean, I
because I saw one of those, I tried

711
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,360
and I said, well,
this isn't going to work. Right.

712
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,360
So then I bought a regular bandolier.

713
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,160
And I have to say, because you figured
normally it's four rounds.

714
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,960
Yeah.
And that's what most cops had for rounds.

715
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,720
Yeah. Well,
those could get used up pretty fast.

716
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,760
And so what I would respond
to, like, a bank

717
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,080
alarm call or, burglary at nighttime.

718
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,200
And you had a perimeter slot
or something like that.

719
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:34,600
You know, I would take the shotgun out.

720
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,360
So that bandolier round my shoulder,

721
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,240
I have to say, it felt really,
really good.

722
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,400
And on more than one occasion,
like during hot stops where I was, a cover

723
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,760
ups or cops would come back
and they used to make fun of me, right.

724
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,560
But after something like that,
they'd look at that and they say,

725
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,560
where'd you get that again?
Yeah. You know.

726
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,240
I always and it never happened
because, you know, cops are proud.

727
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,600
But I always wanted somebody to go, hey,
can you throw me some ammo?

728
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,720
Well, no, no.

729
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:05,680
I'm back. Wilbury.

730
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,280
Oh, you know. No, this is mine.

731
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,280
But I do think some guys, it's we've had
we had some incidents and guys started

732
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,440
showing up with other options and,
some of the slings that had,

733
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,640
extra rounds on them.

734
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:24,600
So the point came across that,
having extra ammo wasn't necessarily

735
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,080
a bad thing, because four rounds
in a hairy gunfight will go by real fast.

736
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,200
I think you're right, I think so,
and if people nowadays, you know,

737
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,800
they have a lot of AR 15 fan
people, for instance.

738
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:41,080
And if you haven't discovered the sort
of protection shotguns, it's worth a look.

739
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:41,840
It really is.

740
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,200
I will warn you, though, it's the same,
like people take an AR 15.

741
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,080
They put every single widget on it
possibly can.

742
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,200
So they turn a svelte, easy to carry, easy

743
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,480
to handle gun into this little lumbering
gamer gun.

744
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,480
Kinda. And people do that with shotguns.

745
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,840
So basic shotgun fix sight.

746
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,280
If you need an aperture.

747
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,800
If you shoot the slugs, that's fine.

748
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,600
Maybe a side saddle. Yeah.

749
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,640
Put a light on it
and you will solve virtually any problem.

750
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,320
You will ever encounter.

751
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,040
Yeah.

752
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,880
And, you know, I gotta say,
I just saw this the other day in a video,

753
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,960
and, you know, the shotguns
always counter you.

754
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,840
You rock a shotgun
and that'll stop the fight.

755
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,040
I'm here to tell you it will not.

756
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,360
But if it does, it's very effective.

757
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,360
So I've often thought that,
that would be one of my my points.

758
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,080
If I ever have to shoot somebody
in my home, I'm going to bring up the fact

759
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,760
that they heard me rack that shotgun,
and they still proceeded forward.

760
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:42,120
That's on them.

761
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,600
They chose poorly.

762
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,360
Well, you know what?

763
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,720
I was going to tell one story.

764
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,600
We had less lethal shotguns.

765
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,560
And so for a while it was really
you had less lethal ammunition.

766
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,560
But we only had one shotgun,
which was our duty shotgun.

767
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,200
And so we were always really concerned
about,

768
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,600
well, did I does
this have less lethal in it.

769
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,080
Does it have. Whoopsie.

770
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,640
And I
and that that happened on some agency.

771
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,680
So I shot him with a beanbag round
only it was double shot buckshot.

772
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,720
Oopsie. Right. Yeah, I was sorry.

773
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:13,680
Yeah my bad.

774
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,760
But I remember there was a time we had
I think they were orange

775
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,120
stocked, so they were eight 70s
and they had orange stocks.

776
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:20,840
Right.

777
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,640
So those were always loaded
and in the trunk

778
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,440
with whatever less lethal
we were using at the time.

779
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,040
Right.
Beanbag rounds or whatever they were.

780
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,880
And but I remember there was a time
there was a guy standing on top of a car,

781
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,600
a complete Looney Tunes nut job.

782
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,040
Right?

783
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,720
And this was before we had the tasers
that could fire, you know,

784
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,200
and so everyone's saying, get off the car,
get off the car, get off the car.

785
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,360
And finally we had enough of it,
and somebody brought out

786
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,600
one of the less lethal shotguns.

787
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,200
And, And I remember he said,
this is what you said.

788
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,760
He wrecks the action, and everyone says,
you know, oh, that'll stop the fight.

789
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,520
No, he said,
what are you going to do, shoot me?

790
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:04,760
So he did.

791
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,040
Yeah.

792
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,240
And I got to say,
there was like this, Mike,

793
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:12,640
what do they call it,
micro expressions or something?

794
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,760
I think. Microaggression.

795
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:15,240
Yeah. Yeah.

796
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:19,320
As he realized he just shot me, you know.

797
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,320
So maybe you'll think
before you act again.

798
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,560
But yeah, that was interesting.

799
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,200
I don't know if people still do that
or not.

800
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,680
Would like a different.

801
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:27,000
Okay. Yeah.

802
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,160
I maybe just watched a video of,
in the state of Arizona,

803
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,920
you know,
and this is another topic to that.

804
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,800
Less lethal is great if it works.

805
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:36,840
Sometimes it doesn't.

806
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,880
And I think law enforcement's
finally realized

807
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,880
because there was a time when,
oh, we'll just use, less lethal.

808
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,880
Right. Well, some people don't care.

809
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,520
And, my own funny story of.

810
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,080
I've seen that, you know,
what are you going to do, shoot me?

811
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,200
How falls the ground?

812
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Oh, didn't hurt. Me.

813
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,080
I know for. Sure it didn't hurt.

814
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,440
Let's put the covers.

815
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,480
Yeah, we need to do a show like that.

816
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,120
Less like just random police stories.

817
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,640
See, people seem to enjoy it,

818
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,560
that they can share their own
in the comments and stuff. So. But yeah.

819
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,160
Yeah. Anyway, we need to do that.

820
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,400
We haven't done
a, the old, old fart cop stories

821
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,400
in a long time,
so we certainly need to do that.

822
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,920
Well, it's, been great talking about this,
and I know we've missed some stuff.

823
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,960
But, leave us a comment down below
or reach out to me.

824
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,520
Editor at guns podcast.

825
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,920
Dot us and tell us what you really like,
what you think

826
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,240
should be included on this list.

827
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,920
And there's a billion guns, but,

828
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,600
the criteria is all guns
that are still relevant today.

829
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,960
So let us know what you think about that.

830
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,280
And, of course,
this is the, guns Magazine Presents

831
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Guns podcast U.S
make sure you stop by guns magazine.com

832
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,160
and our sister publication
American Handgun or.com.

833
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,880
All are your favorite writers.

834
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,720
Are there all the good stuff is there.

835
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:57,080
And of course we've got daily newsletters.

836
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,080
You need to sign up for those and have
all the goodness delivered to your inbox.

837
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,680
And of course, right.

838
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:05,960
I want to buy your book.

839
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,600
I hear it's a really great book.

840
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,440
Is that a softball pitch?

841
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,920
Enough for you? Yeah.

842
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,400
Did I pay you enough? Yeah.

843
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,480
Yeah, yeah.

844
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,800
No. FM pubs.com is where you can go buy
a copy of Royal Insider book

845
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,720
and John Connor's out angry shot and
all of our special interest publications.

846
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:25,560
They're still there
and they'll ship them right to you.

847
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,680
And we're getting to that part of
the season where it's kind of the holiday.

848
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,320
And if you're looking for a great gift for
the shooter in your life, go to FG pubs.

849
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,640
Dot com and buy one of those books.

850
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,360
So my guest today, of course, has been Roy
Huntington, the unofficial co-sponsor

851
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,880
or co-host of the Guns magazine Presents

852
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,880
the Guns podcast,
and I appreciate you joining us. Roy,

853
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,320
on behalf of Roy and myself,
I am the editor of guns magazine.

854
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,680
Brant Wheat, I'm
going to remind you yet again.

855
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,720
Now get out there and get shooting.

856
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:12,080
To.