Zone-Pushing | Pushing the Limits with Plants

<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting from Studio A here at Proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs.
<v Speaker 1>It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella, me,
<v Speaker 1>Rick Weist, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Today, Stacey,
<v Speaker 1>we go to the danger zone. I love this. I
<v Speaker 1>feel the need for seed, not speed seed whatever. Zone pushing.
<v Speaker 1>So you may have heard of a method of gardening
<v Speaker 1>called zone pushing, where homeowners and gardeners figuring out ways
<v Speaker 1>to plant grow items that don't usually live or survive
<v Speaker 1>in their heartiness zone. So maybe we're pushing things one,
<v Speaker 1>maybe two zones beyond what our normal zone is. So
<v Speaker 1>it's not zone ignoring, its zone pushing seeing what you
<v Speaker 1>can get away with in your lands.
<v Speaker 2>You know, that's exactly it. And really I think this
<v Speaker 2>is where gardening takes place, right when you dare to
<v Speaker 2>stand up and experiments, yes with something. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>this is a topic that has come up through the
<v Speaker 2>many years we've been doing the show here and there,
<v Speaker 2>and you know, it always seems to come up, I
<v Speaker 2>don't know, in like summer or fall or something, which
<v Speaker 2>is the exact time that you cannot do anything for
<v Speaker 2>most areas. Certainly if you're trying to push a warmer zone,
<v Speaker 2>plant into a colder zone, plant into a colder zone.
<v Speaker 2>You can't do it then, so I wanted to, you know,
<v Speaker 2>I thought we should do the show when people can
<v Speaker 2>actually take advantage of the coming spring to maybe try
<v Speaker 2>to push some hardiness zones rather than just go yeah,
<v Speaker 2>I should really do that.
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I love that because I've been doing that for years.
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like high stakes gambling with your landscape
<v Speaker 1>and plant heartiness. But also tied into the whole mix
<v Speaker 1>is development of your landscape using things like backdrops, barriers,
<v Speaker 1>the home, plants, trees, elevations, et cetera, et cetera, to
<v Speaker 1>landscape and create what we would call micro climates where
<v Speaker 1>some of these plants can exist. Does a wall get
<v Speaker 1>you maybe half a zone planting in the city, maybe
<v Speaker 1>half a zone near a river, quarter zone against a house,
<v Speaker 1>or if you've got a glass porch, a full zone,
<v Speaker 1>a southern exposure and slope. You know, this is how
<v Speaker 1>my brain works, Okay, And especially living in the north,
<v Speaker 1>as you leave winter, it is very telling if you
<v Speaker 1>have a slope that faces the south, how quickly the
<v Speaker 1>ice and snow go away. Whereas an area of the home,
<v Speaker 1>let's say that is subject to structural shade, or on
<v Speaker 1>the north side that ice and snow seems to last forever,
<v Speaker 1>or all the way some of the piles all the
<v Speaker 1>way into June feels that way, and I'm exaggerating. You
<v Speaker 1>really get a good feel for micro climates and your
<v Speaker 1>potential for pushing zones.
<v Speaker 2>That's a great point because not only is spring the
<v Speaker 2>time that you can actually take action on trying to
<v Speaker 2>push the hardiness zones of some plants that you really
<v Speaker 2>wish you could grow, but it's also the perfect time
<v Speaker 2>to observe and find out what those micro climates you
<v Speaker 2>know potentially are in your yard. Are there things, Are
<v Speaker 2>there places that you notice, yeah, where the snow melts first.
<v Speaker 2>Are there places where things emerge more quickly than in
<v Speaker 2>other parts of your yard or bloom a little bit
<v Speaker 2>more quickly. So now is the time to kind of
<v Speaker 2>pick up on all of those little cubes, because there's
<v Speaker 2>so much easier to see in winter, when we're just
<v Speaker 2>much more attuned to every little thing that happens in
<v Speaker 2>the landscape.
<v Speaker 1>And getting a jump start on the season. So I'll
<v Speaker 1>start you right off with my limb A rick for today.
<v Speaker 1>I already I love Lieutenant Pete Maverick Mitchell and Goose
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen eighty six movie Top Gun and their
<v Speaker 1>famous line in Unison, I feel the need, the need
<v Speaker 1>for speed, but it essentially points out their risk taking character.
<v Speaker 1>I have a tendency to be a risk taker. In
<v Speaker 1>the landscape test the limits of what could be grown
<v Speaker 1>without use of a plant hormone, ignoring heartiness recommendations, I
<v Speaker 1>defy expectations, and yes, I went to the danger zone.
<v Speaker 1>The boundaries all exceed no place for those who are
<v Speaker 1>weak need a plant with staying power, permission to buzz
<v Speaker 1>the flower. I feel the need for seed. Sorry, I
<v Speaker 1>took some liberties there.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well that's fair Limerick after all.
<v Speaker 1>But you know, when we talk about this subject, Stacy,
<v Speaker 1>one of the things that comes to mind for me
<v Speaker 1>is for me trying to get a jump start on
<v Speaker 1>the season with my cannas and my dahlias or my
<v Speaker 1>beloved banana trees that I try to overwinter by heavily
<v Speaker 1>mulching and then bordering it with boulders, because again stone
<v Speaker 1>can absorb light heat and be valuable. Raised beds or
<v Speaker 1>boulders around that area absorb heat, so I have that,
<v Speaker 1>and in your landscape you're dealing with the fig trees.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, trying to grow a fig and actually quite successfully,
<v Speaker 2>although we shall see what this past winter did to
<v Speaker 2>our fig knock on wood right now it looks pretty great.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you know, when you were talking about that,
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking about figs, and not just my own figs,
<v Speaker 2>but also in England, where of course have a very
<v Speaker 2>mild climate, but it never really gets very hot, so't
<v Speaker 2>they don't have the cold to worry about to get
<v Speaker 2>figs through the season, but they also never really have
<v Speaker 2>enough warmth to ripen. So back I think it was
<v Speaker 2>like in the nineteen twenties, this concept of a fig
<v Speaker 2>dome became quite popular where they would plant the figs
<v Speaker 2>against these metal domes kind of turned over like an
<v Speaker 2>umbrella and train the branches over the dome and the
<v Speaker 2>fig dome the metal would absorb the heat in an
<v Speaker 2>attempt to ripen the figs. So sometimes it's not just
<v Speaker 2>about you know, whether the plant can grow, it's about getting,
<v Speaker 2>you know, the thing that you want. So you know,
<v Speaker 2>another great example of that. I love camelias. I think
<v Speaker 2>they're just one of the most beautiful ornamental, useful plants
<v Speaker 2>out there. They're deer resistant, their flowers are amazing, and
<v Speaker 2>so I have attempted to grow camellias at multiple points
<v Speaker 2>here in Michigan, and what I often found was that
<v Speaker 2>I could get the plant to live, but that by
<v Speaker 2>the time it would bloom and fall, and usually the
<v Speaker 2>fall blooming camellias are the much more cold tolerant than
<v Speaker 2>the winter and spring blooming camelias, that by the time
<v Speaker 2>fall came around, it was just too cold anymore for
<v Speaker 2>those flowers to actually open. So sometimes it's not solely
<v Speaker 2>a matter of survival. It's a matter of getting the
<v Speaker 2>plant to do what you want it to do in
<v Speaker 2>your climate.
<v Speaker 1>I like that. I appreciate the fact that you shared
<v Speaker 1>that because for people keeping score at home, stay both
<v Speaker 1>Stacey and I live in West Michigan along the lake
<v Speaker 1>shore where i'm six B yeah six B yeah, six B,
<v Speaker 1>and generally when I look at camellias, they say seven
<v Speaker 1>If you're providing protection seven B, maybe you'd be okay.
<v Speaker 1>And so it's one of those plants that perfectly fits
<v Speaker 1>that pushing the zone example.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, we've had them survive quite well here
<v Speaker 2>right outside studio A in fact, as well as in
<v Speaker 2>our trial garden not far away from here. The question
<v Speaker 2>is just whether or not they flower. Unfortunately, the foliage
<v Speaker 2>is attractive enough. But also it's just kind of cool
<v Speaker 2>to amaze your friends, whether they're gardening friends or not,
<v Speaker 2>and say, hey, hey, here's my camellia. I've been growing
<v Speaker 2>it for five years, and they'll be like, so, you know,
<v Speaker 2>and one time I visited it. One time I visited
<v Speaker 2>a public garden in North Carolina. This happened to me
<v Speaker 2>as a professional horticulturist. So I visited this public garden
<v Speaker 2>in North Carolina and they're showing me around and she says,
<v Speaker 2>and here's our taxes. And I just gave her the
<v Speaker 2>most blank look of my entire life. And they're like
<v Speaker 2>waiting for me to have a reaction. And I had
<v Speaker 2>no idea that it was a massive deal that they
<v Speaker 2>were growing at taxis just a regular old you know
<v Speaker 2>you of course they can grow cephalo taxes. So it
<v Speaker 2>was quite lost on me that this was a special thing.
<v Speaker 2>So I was like, yeah, taxes, okay, but you know,
<v Speaker 2>it's I think a good theme for this show. The
<v Speaker 2>grass is always greener on the other side.
<v Speaker 1>You've got it, and things are always bigger in taxis right,
<v Speaker 1>But I'm glad you brought that up because when you're
<v Speaker 1>dealing with your yard, your yard is not uniform, so
<v Speaker 1>it's a number of micro climates. I try to create
<v Speaker 1>some micro climates. I'm using these aluminum corrugated panels as
<v Speaker 1>backdrops increase the light. Of course, some homes are brick absorbs.
<v Speaker 1>There are different types of coverings you can put on
<v Speaker 1>your home that will reflect more light maybe help. Some
<v Speaker 1>spots are warmer, some are colder, some are wind sheltered,
<v Speaker 1>and it's important to note also that some are more
<v Speaker 1>damp than others. And if you have standing water, for example,
<v Speaker 1>around roots. We've talked about this before, your odds of
<v Speaker 1>success are far far lower if you do not have
<v Speaker 1>good drainage. There's a huge difference between a south facing
<v Speaker 1>slope on a home and the north side of the home.
<v Speaker 1>So the key is to map and manipulate those niches,
<v Speaker 1>so to speak, and then go out there and do
<v Speaker 1>a little bit of gambling. Because Stacy, you mentioned Camellia's
<v Speaker 1>I want to grow them here in Michigan. Another one
<v Speaker 1>that I really want to grow, and of course, I
<v Speaker 1>do have the potential of doing it is crape myrtle?
<v Speaker 2>Yep, oh for sure. Definitely that's much harder than people
<v Speaker 2>thought exactly.
<v Speaker 1>So let's see how Stacey ties this in and plants
<v Speaker 1>on trial. That's coming up next here on the Gardening
<v Speaker 1>Simplified Show.
<v Speaker 2>Beautify your home and community with Proven Winner's Color Choice
<v Speaker 2>shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique varieties
<v Speaker 2>to choose from. There's a flowering shrub or evergreen for
<v Speaker 2>every taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive
<v Speaker 2>white container your local garden center or learn more at
<v Speaker 2>proven Winners Color Choice dot com. You're Reading's Gardening friends,
<v Speaker 2>and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where we
<v Speaker 2>are sharing our ideas and tips on how you can
<v Speaker 2>push your heartiness own. Now, this stuff applies to shrubs, perennials,
<v Speaker 2>even maybe to some extent trees, and you know, really,
<v Speaker 2>what we're kind of recommending is that if you want
<v Speaker 2>to grow something that is one one zone hardier, in
<v Speaker 2>most cases, probably a pretty good chance of success. Two
<v Speaker 2>zones hardier, maybe less of a chance. But the point
<v Speaker 2>is the number one thing that you want to do
<v Speaker 2>when you are pushing your herd in a zone is
<v Speaker 2>give the plant the longest possible time to get established
<v Speaker 2>before winter, which you know, again we're talking about a
<v Speaker 2>plant's ability to withstand cold, and we're trying to push that.
<v Speaker 2>A plant that was planted in fall and only had
<v Speaker 2>you know, two or three months to get established before
<v Speaker 2>winter sets in is definitely not going to be as
<v Speaker 2>prepared to deal with those challenges as something that you
<v Speaker 2>plant in spring that is then going to be able
<v Speaker 2>to have, you know, all of the height of the
<v Speaker 2>growing season to develop those roots and put on some
<v Speaker 2>good body to help it withstand the winter. Also doesn't
<v Speaker 2>hurt if you end up with a couple of mild
<v Speaker 2>winters in a row. That kind of helps it put
<v Speaker 2>on a little bit more bulk. And you always do
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of be prepared for the worst to happen.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, you know. But also you can be like
<v Speaker 2>that's a learning experience too, you know it's but.
<v Speaker 1>Then when you have a victory, I mean that risk
<v Speaker 1>taking is.
<v Speaker 2>Makes it work, absolutely so. Rick, let me ask you
<v Speaker 2>if you could grow one plant from outside your zone.
<v Speaker 2>We're not even just saying like it's possible to grow
<v Speaker 2>in Michigan, just like you can now have one plant
<v Speaker 2>magically grow in your yard. What is it easy? Okay?
<v Speaker 2>Palm trees Okay, that's a lot. That's a big group
<v Speaker 2>of plants.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know with any plant Pho, phoenix, ROI palms. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>well what about like a palms?
<v Speaker 2>What about the palmettows? It s all palmettos like they
<v Speaker 2>heave in South Carolina. Because there's a chance you would
<v Speaker 2>be able to grow that, I'd say, and but quite there.
<v Speaker 1>Right, believe me, I've thought. But then this past year
<v Speaker 1>that polar vortex win winter that we went through, but
<v Speaker 1>I'm not bitter about it put me back in my place.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's worth it for me. I would have
<v Speaker 2>to say. It would either be a lemon tree or
<v Speaker 2>an avocado tree.
<v Speaker 1>Oh ms, wouldn't that be great?
<v Speaker 2>Would it just be so amazing to just like go
<v Speaker 2>out your backyard and pick lemons whenever you wanted to?
<v Speaker 1>Coconut trees?
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I know, we sometimes get accused, and
<v Speaker 2>rightfully so, from our warm climate listeners that were not
<v Speaker 2>you know, giving enough attention to them.
<v Speaker 1>But we can flip it on its ear right, I
<v Speaker 1>mean they how about if they push things like lilacs
<v Speaker 1>or something.
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to talk about that it's plants on Trial,
<v Speaker 2>but I just thought i'd introduce it by us sharing
<v Speaker 2>what we wish we could grow from your warmer climates,
<v Speaker 2>because again, the grass is always greener on the other side. Yeah, So,
<v Speaker 2>in thinking about plants on Trial for today, I thought
<v Speaker 2>about my many years of talking with various home gardeners
<v Speaker 2>from all over the country, and I came up with
<v Speaker 2>a top list of plants that people in cold climates
<v Speaker 2>wish they could grow, as well as a list of
<v Speaker 2>people in hot climates wish that they could grow that
<v Speaker 2>are too cold. Too cold toller, Okay, excellent. So and
<v Speaker 2>these are not in any particular order. They're just kind
<v Speaker 2>of as they came to me. But so my list
<v Speaker 2>of people that in cold climates wish that they could
<v Speaker 2>grow or at least grow successfully. Number one big leaf
<v Speaker 2>hydrangea hydrange of Macrophylla. You know there's and that's one
<v Speaker 2>of those plants that kind of goes along with what
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about in the last segment, where you
<v Speaker 2>know the plant can grow like you will have a
<v Speaker 2>hydrange of macrophilla or big leaf hydrangel. This is the
<v Speaker 2>kind of the pink, purple or blue flowers. The planet
<v Speaker 2>itself will survive, but just that it hadn't because you
<v Speaker 2>never get a single flower on it, at least if
<v Speaker 2>it's an old fashioned variety. You know, as we've said before,
<v Speaker 2>we're working really hard on that here at Pervumina's Colored
<v Speaker 2>Choice Shrubs. So if if you are one of these
<v Speaker 2>cold climate gardeners who dearly wish you could have those
<v Speaker 2>fabulous big blue globe flowers on a hydrangea, I would
<v Speaker 2>encourage you to add lightstance, sky view, continuous blooming Hydrangea
<v Speaker 2>to your list. It is hardy to USDA zone four,
<v Speaker 2>and we have heard success stories down in you zoned
<v Speaker 2>for In fact, I even heard from a gardener who
<v Speaker 2>was growing it and get ready for this, he was
<v Speaker 2>in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Whoa, yeah, Now he was protecting it.
<v Speaker 2>I will say that because that's his zone three. But
<v Speaker 2>it was flowering and doing great. So you know, that's
<v Speaker 2>one that can be easily resolved by picking the right variety,
<v Speaker 2>which is another strategy that you can use in pushing
<v Speaker 2>hardiness zones. For example, if you want to grow rosemary,
<v Speaker 2>the variety arparp Is known to be much hardier than
<v Speaker 2>other types of rosemary, so sometimes it's worth looking into
<v Speaker 2>is there a specific variety that will work next on
<v Speaker 2>the list. I hear this from a lot of Zone
<v Speaker 2>four gardeners because they're just not quite at the threshold
<v Speaker 2>Rosa Sharon. Oh really, Well, you know, it's a pretty
<v Speaker 2>beloved plant, and I think, you know, if you're in
<v Speaker 2>Zone four, you're just kind of like so close and
<v Speaker 2>yet so far when it comes to growing Rosa Sharon.
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I have to confess, even though a
<v Speaker 2>lot of people feel like roses of Sharon are kind
<v Speaker 2>of just a ho home plant, there are very few
<v Speaker 2>other shrubs that bloom that much and look that great.
<v Speaker 2>They attract hummingbirds, they attract pollinators.
<v Speaker 1>And at that time of year.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they're dead easy to grow. I mean, you
<v Speaker 2>don't have to do a single darn thing. So definitely
<v Speaker 2>hearing that from the Zone four and colder gardeners. I
<v Speaker 2>hear from a lot of cold climate gardeners that they
<v Speaker 2>wish they could grow are perfected mundo azaleas. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>that's a situation where you know, when I talk to
<v Speaker 2>gardeners about that, that's really a perfect example of how
<v Speaker 2>the hardiness zone system fails us Now, the hardiness zone
<v Speaker 2>USDA Hardiness oon system is the only system that we
<v Speaker 2>have for determining a plant's temperature tolerance. But of course
<v Speaker 2>it's not perfect. Few systems are. But the issue here
<v Speaker 2>is that, you know, yes, perfected Mundo azaleas are hardy
<v Speaker 2>down to Zone six B. They have overwintered here, but
<v Speaker 2>not all USDA Zone six B areas are the same.
<v Speaker 2>And when we're only talking about the lowest temperature in
<v Speaker 2>area will get, then we're not you know, you know,
<v Speaker 2>involving other factors like how long does it say that
<v Speaker 2>cold and is there snow cover and all of these
<v Speaker 2>other things. So you know, absolutely perfecting wind to azalels
<v Speaker 2>will do great on the east coast sort of in
<v Speaker 2>that southeast Delaware kind of area do perfectly well. But
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you get into the Midwest and six bees,
<v Speaker 2>things are a little bit different. Crepe myrtle is another one,
<v Speaker 2>and that's that's when I feel like, you know, yes,
<v Speaker 2>of course we do have varieties that we are finding
<v Speaker 2>bloom perfectly swell even down to USCA Zone five. They
<v Speaker 2>may die back to the ground, but because they are
<v Speaker 2>shrubby crape myrtles. It doesn't matter, you're not losing this
<v Speaker 2>whole huge plant. They just come back from the ground.
<v Speaker 2>But I also feel like that's a plant that as
<v Speaker 2>it has become more mainstream and thanks to the Internet
<v Speaker 2>where people are better able to share their experiences, are
<v Speaker 2>finding out it's a little bit more cold tolerant than
<v Speaker 2>they thought. And of course my favorite camellia. So that's
<v Speaker 2>the quick end of my quick list for cold climate
<v Speaker 2>gardeners wishing that they could grow. Definitely, you already said it, Rick.
<v Speaker 2>The number one plant that I hear from warm climate
<v Speaker 2>gardeners that they dearly wish they could grow is lilacs.
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I don't even I think it's just
<v Speaker 2>a transplants, you know, people who grew up in colder
<v Speaker 2>climates and found themselves moving to a warmer climate. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>they're just kind of like the epitome of like a
<v Speaker 2>romantic spring plants fragrance, I mean, and they really are
<v Speaker 2>an extraordinary fragrance. And you know they're even here in
<v Speaker 2>the North. I have to say, they bloom all too short,
<v Speaker 2>especially lately where it tends to get a little bit
<v Speaker 2>warmer in May, those blooms can be very very short lived.
<v Speaker 2>But lilocks. You know, it's harder for our friends in
<v Speaker 2>warm climates to grow something like a lilac, And you
<v Speaker 2>don't really have the advantage that we have of starting
<v Speaker 2>earlier in the season and trying to get it established
<v Speaker 2>because the problem with the lilacs they strictly need a
<v Speaker 2>cold treatment, a period of cold temperatures in order to
<v Speaker 2>set and develop their flower buds. And that's not something
<v Speaker 2>you can really get around.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly.
<v Speaker 2>You know, unless you're gonna kind of ring up some
<v Speaker 2>sort of elaborate refrigerator system that's going to be in
<v Speaker 2>your yard all winter, chill in the plants.
<v Speaker 1>You're not going to be able to fix it with
<v Speaker 1>shading trying to cool it.
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.
<v Speaker 1>Just can't get it fire.
<v Speaker 2>Enough, so it does. That does make a difference. Panicle
<v Speaker 2>hydrange is now, that's another plant people in warm climates
<v Speaker 2>can grow them. We just moved all of our panicle
<v Speaker 2>hydrange of heat tolerance to USDA Zone nine based on
<v Speaker 2>feedback from our growers and from our new plant development
<v Speaker 2>manager who grew up in the South. But you know,
<v Speaker 2>as fabulous as they are, they don't really turn great colors.
<v Speaker 2>So they don't only wish that they could grow panicle
<v Speaker 2>hydrange as they can, they wish that they could get
<v Speaker 2>that fabulous pink, purple, pink red color that we get
<v Speaker 2>up here. Now, this one is not a shrub, But boy,
<v Speaker 2>have I heard from a lot of warm climate.
<v Speaker 1>Garden where you're going here now? Yeah?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, p andies. Yeah, And so that I think is
<v Speaker 2>a great example of how we as a cold climate
<v Speaker 2>gardener can feel comforted by something. I mean, because how
<v Speaker 2>fabulous are peonies.
<v Speaker 1>And p andies embrace cold web.
<v Speaker 2>They love it. Yeah, they need it, they absolutely need it.
<v Speaker 2>So you know, we can be grateful we might be
<v Speaker 2>able to grow a lemon, but we can grow a
<v Speaker 2>pa andy and the grass is always greener. On the
<v Speaker 2>other side, the other one, hear a lot from warm
<v Speaker 2>climate peeps blacklace elderberry. Really yes, because even though this
<v Speaker 2>plant the planet itself will grow, what it will not
<v Speaker 2>do in warm climates is turned black. The heat is
<v Speaker 2>just too intense and it kind of gets this weird
<v Speaker 2>muddy green color. Okay, So you know, unfortunately, like I said,
<v Speaker 2>for our warm climate friends, it is a little bit
<v Speaker 2>harder for you to do to take the measures that
<v Speaker 2>we can take in cold climates like this, where we
<v Speaker 2>can plant and spring, we can choose protected areas, we
<v Speaker 2>can research and find varieties that are more suited. Although
<v Speaker 2>you can do that warm climate friends to a certain extent,
<v Speaker 2>there is such a thing as low chill lilacs that
<v Speaker 2>require fewer chilling hours. And so the way you will
<v Speaker 2>figure those out is if you look at that heartiness
<v Speaker 2>zone range on a plant. If it goes up to
<v Speaker 2>say zone eight instead of just zone seven, like our
<v Speaker 2>centaur lilocs do versus our bloomerang lilacs, that means they
<v Speaker 2>require fewer chilling hours. So with a little bit of
<v Speaker 2>research you can find that. But you know, I would
<v Speaker 2>also say that if we all look into our gardens
<v Speaker 2>and do some self examination, I think we can all
<v Speaker 2>be pretty happy at the things that we can grow,
<v Speaker 2>and despite wishing what else we could grow, I think
<v Speaker 2>we can be pretty happy with you. Right on that note,
<v Speaker 2>we're going to take a little break and when we
<v Speaker 2>come back, we're opening up the mailbags. So stay tuned
<v Speaker 2>at proven winners color choice shrubs. We know that a
<v Speaker 2>better landscape starts with a better shrub. Our team of
<v Speaker 2>experts tests and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs and
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<v Speaker 2>what's already on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs
<v Speaker 2>to accentuate your home and express your personal style, look
<v Speaker 2>for Proven Winners shrubs in the distinctive white container at
<v Speaker 2>your local garden center or learn more at proven Winner's
<v Speaker 2>Color choice dot com. Creating's gardening friends and welcome back
<v Speaker 2>to the Gardening Simplified Show. Where is our pleasure to
<v Speaker 2>help you with your gardens questions, quandaries and conundrums. And
<v Speaker 2>if you have one of those, you can reach out
<v Speaker 2>to us at help at Gardening Simplified on air dot com,
<v Speaker 2>or just visit Gardeningsimplified on air dot com. There's a
<v Speaker 2>contact from there. You can even attach a picture, and
<v Speaker 2>you can also ask a question on our YouTube comments.
<v Speaker 2>Adriana reads all of those and asks for help if
<v Speaker 2>she needs it. Otherwise, you know, Adurana knows a lot,
<v Speaker 2>so she can answer most of them on her own.
<v Speaker 2>But so there's lots of different ways that we can
<v Speaker 2>try to help you, especially if your question is maybe
<v Speaker 2>not all that amenable to asking on the radio, because
<v Speaker 2>you know, we have limited time, and sometimes things are
<v Speaker 2>like very complicated and I'm using my hands a lot,
<v Speaker 2>and you know all of that, and it's not easy
<v Speaker 2>to answer, So you know, we want it to be
<v Speaker 2>like I could, I could go on forever on some questions,
<v Speaker 2>so as Adriana can certainly attest. So anyway, we would
<v Speaker 2>love to hear from you, and we do appreciate you
<v Speaker 2>listening and asking your questions. So we have someone who
<v Speaker 2>has a question specifically for you. Her name is Kathy,
<v Speaker 2>and she says, I am going to Amsterdam and Brussels
<v Speaker 2>April nineteenth to twenty eighth. Of course I want to
<v Speaker 2>see tulips and gardens. Would you be willing to share
<v Speaker 2>with me the gardens you visited on your recent trip,
<v Speaker 2>in particular the tulip fields. Thank you?
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Well, I'll tell you what. Both my parents
<v Speaker 1>were born and raised in the Netherlands, survived World War two,
<v Speaker 1>the hunger winter in the Netherlands of nineteen forty four
<v Speaker 1>forty five eight tulip bulbs to stay alive. So they
<v Speaker 1>were born in an area just south of Amsterdam. And
<v Speaker 1>if you focus your attention on the area, I'm thinking
<v Speaker 1>it's just south and west of Amsterdam. It's an area
<v Speaker 1>called Lissa l i ss. The fields in that area
<v Speaker 1>are beautiful, so you can I mean, first stop, you
<v Speaker 1>have to go to Koykinhoff Gardens.
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's just kind of the gold standard.
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's the gold standard. I mean it's since it's
<v Speaker 1>absolutely beautiful. But I found myself pulling off to the
<v Speaker 1>side along the roadways in that general area taking photographs
<v Speaker 1>of the fields. And the funnest thing that I got
<v Speaker 1>to do in that regard to address Kathy's question, and
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna go back and do it again, is you
<v Speaker 1>can rent a bike. Bikes are big in the Netherlands.
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's riding a bike. And you rent a bike and
<v Speaker 1>you leave the Koikanhoff area and you pedal around areas
<v Speaker 1>like Halvec I think it's pronounced or Lisa. You're able
<v Speaker 1>to get up close and personal with these fields where
<v Speaker 1>they're actually growing these bulbs. And I have numerous pictures
<v Speaker 1>of that, took video, just just loved it, and that's
<v Speaker 1>what I would recommend you do. Get on a bike.
<v Speaker 1>You can rent the bike, I believe right near Koikanhoff,
<v Speaker 1>right near the gardens there, and then head out on
<v Speaker 1>these beautifully paved trails and see some of these fields
<v Speaker 1>for yourself.
<v Speaker 2>And it's known to be very flat, which is why
<v Speaker 2>it's so great for tulips. So you don't have to
<v Speaker 2>worry about, you know, getting winded on those hills and
<v Speaker 2>it's just going to have a very pleasant bike. Right now,
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about that timing? Do you think
<v Speaker 2>the tulips will still be at peak in mid to
<v Speaker 2>late April?
<v Speaker 1>No, that's always a roll of the dice. When I've
<v Speaker 1>been there, it's been mid April, right smack dab in
<v Speaker 1>mid April, and it was beautiful. I would think April
<v Speaker 1>nineteen to twenty eight, you should be in good shape.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, I think. I mean there's late tulips, of course,
<v Speaker 2>you know there's early, mid and late tulips. And that's
<v Speaker 2>why down here in Holland, in Michigan you can usually
<v Speaker 2>catch some tulips even if we have an early spring,
<v Speaker 2>because they make sure to plant that full range. And
<v Speaker 2>you know, I've been to Amsterdam once many years ago.
<v Speaker 2>It was in late spring, and I really found that
<v Speaker 2>all of Amsterdam was like a garden. I mean, you
<v Speaker 2>know when I was there, the horse chestnuts were in bloom.
<v Speaker 2>There were baby ducks in the canals, and it was
<v Speaker 2>it was a ferryland.
<v Speaker 1>It was just the country beautiful.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And that's the other thing I'd suggest to Kathy is
<v Speaker 1>is I rented a car. I got off the plane
<v Speaker 1>and got my rental car and I pretty much drove
<v Speaker 1>all of Holland. It's beautiful.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>And like you said, Stacey, it's flat, so you know.
<v Speaker 1>And if you were to rent a bike, if you could,
<v Speaker 1>if pedling looks sounds like a lot of work to you,
<v Speaker 1>you can get electric.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well yeah, e bikes are everywhere now, right, And
<v Speaker 2>I think there is a small botanical garden in Amsterdam
<v Speaker 2>propers if you are seeing in a hotel. I visited
<v Speaker 2>that and found it was quite lovely. But really everywhere
<v Speaker 2>you go, I mean, and like most of Europe, you know,
<v Speaker 2>just there's just so much more planting, yes, and plants
<v Speaker 2>and venerable old trees and parks everywhere in most places
<v Speaker 2>that you just kind of always have that sense that
<v Speaker 2>you're you're never really far away from some fabulous plants.
<v Speaker 1>So focus on the Lissa area.
<v Speaker 2>L I s s all right, we have a different
<v Speaker 2>question from a question from a different cafee. O. She
<v Speaker 2>says Hi. We living grand rapids in this spring. We
<v Speaker 2>want to plant a lawn alternative to grass. We're looking
<v Speaker 2>at clover. We can't physically do the entire yard, but
<v Speaker 2>we have large patches that we want to fill in
<v Speaker 2>with clover. Can you give any advice and when to
<v Speaker 2>plant and the best way. We'd also like to know
<v Speaker 2>what's the best clover seed to purchase. You have any
<v Speaker 2>experience with clover lawns as our resident lawn.
<v Speaker 1>Expert, Well, we used to at the garden center sell
<v Speaker 1>a lot of white clover. And of course clover is
<v Speaker 1>nitrogen fixing, so you're dealing with something that's quite different
<v Speaker 1>from turf because stacy with turf, it seems like we're
<v Speaker 1>always out there pumping down the fertilizer and putting in
<v Speaker 1>the inputs, whereas with clover. With clover you don't. So again,
<v Speaker 1>soil preparation similar to if you're going to be planting
<v Speaker 1>grass seed, and of course a concern if it's in
<v Speaker 1>a sunny area. Did you have experience with crab grass
<v Speaker 1>and nuts edge last year? If you didn't, great, but
<v Speaker 1>if you did, you may find that as you try
<v Speaker 1>to seed this, you're going to have some competition from
<v Speaker 1>those weeds as the weather starts to warm up, and
<v Speaker 1>that can make it a little bit difficult.
<v Speaker 2>If you didn't have crabgrass and nutsedge. I want to
<v Speaker 2>know your secret, Please let me know. Yeah. I love
<v Speaker 2>the idea of clover as a long alternative. It's so pretty,
<v Speaker 2>you know, it says grain all season you can look
<v Speaker 2>for four leaf clovers and how fun is that? And
<v Speaker 2>you know, and then you got the flowers that attract bees. Now,
<v Speaker 2>some people don't like that, but just because it attracts
<v Speaker 2>and sustains bees does not mean it is going to
<v Speaker 2>increase the beastings in your yard because the bees are
<v Speaker 2>too happy gathering the nectar from the clover flowers. That said,
<v Speaker 2>there are two main types of clover that are recommended
<v Speaker 2>as lawns. Number one is a mini clover, and you'll
<v Speaker 2>find various varieties of this, but if you search mini clover,
<v Speaker 2>that one is going to have much smaller leaves and
<v Speaker 2>be much closer to the ground. So if you want
<v Speaker 2>more of that kind of conventional, well groomed lawn, look,
<v Speaker 2>a mini clover is the way to go. Otherwise, like
<v Speaker 2>you said, Rick, the white clover is kind of the
<v Speaker 2>gold standard I was also reading an article that talked
<v Speaker 2>about strawberry clover, which is actually a species of clover,
<v Speaker 2>but they said that it has been difficult to produce
<v Speaker 2>and find so worth looking into. Perhaps you can find
<v Speaker 2>it at a feed store. But the biggest thing, you know,
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about pushing your hardiness zone today because we
<v Speaker 2>felt like this timing was right so that people could
<v Speaker 2>actually take action and push the hardiness zone on some
<v Speaker 2>plants they're interested in this season. I have always heard
<v Speaker 2>that the best time to establish a clover lawn is
<v Speaker 2>in full yes, and in more certain terms than just like, oh,
<v Speaker 2>you know, the best time to plant alawn is fall,
<v Speaker 2>but spring is okay. I have heard that, you know, really,
<v Speaker 2>especially because it is more expensive than grass seed, your
<v Speaker 2>best stuff. Putting your your efforts in full well.
<v Speaker 1>Have to soak the seed and your right state. See
<v Speaker 1>fall well, as far as turf is concerned, falls better
<v Speaker 1>also because you don't have the competition of those weeds
<v Speaker 1>that are aggressive at that time of the year. And
<v Speaker 1>then of course summer can be very stressful on a
<v Speaker 1>lawn or clover. So I would agree fall is a
<v Speaker 1>great time and if you've got a lot of landscape
<v Speaker 1>plants that you love and you want a clover lawn.
<v Speaker 1>If you don't have barriers, bear in mind you're also
<v Speaker 1>going to attract bunny rabbits.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, I have tried to grow ornamental clovers before,
<v Speaker 2>the really pretty ones that just that came out a
<v Speaker 2>couple of years ago. I mean because I love them.
<v Speaker 2>I love clover and I love fur lyf clovers. And yeah,
<v Speaker 2>those lasted about a night if that, maybe like an
<v Speaker 2>hour of the first hour of the evening, and the
<v Speaker 2>rabbits were like, hey, everybody party te time. There's fresh
<v Speaker 2>clover over here. They do really love it. And you know,
<v Speaker 2>that's really another challenge for the fall is because by
<v Speaker 2>then food is starting to get a little bit more scarce,
<v Speaker 2>things have died back, so you may want to cover
<v Speaker 2>those areas are somehow otherwise exclude rabbits. You can try
<v Speaker 2>using a repellent. And maybe you don't have problems with
<v Speaker 2>rabbits either. And you live in this magical faeryland where
<v Speaker 2>there's no rabbits and no crab grass and nutsedge in
<v Speaker 2>your in your in, your clover lawn is going to
<v Speaker 2>grow in beautifully. Uh, it could happen.
<v Speaker 1>And kudos to you. Kathy for trying. Yeah, like the
<v Speaker 1>like the old Yankee New York Yankees catcher Yogi Bearra said,
<v Speaker 1>it ain't over until it's clover, so give it a trick, right.
<v Speaker 2>And I've also heard that that you know your your
<v Speaker 2>strategy here, Kathy, with mixing in patches of clover with
<v Speaker 2>you know, conventional turf grass. That if just a quarter
<v Speaker 2>of your lawn was clover and you multi the clipping
<v Speaker 2>so you don't bag them, you let them just lie
<v Speaker 2>as they go, that you will have You'll serve all
<v Speaker 2>of the lawns nitrogen needs just by the existence of
<v Speaker 2>the clover, because it's fixing it from the ground that
<v Speaker 2>goes into the foliage and by decomposing the foliage, you're
<v Speaker 2>actually fertilizing your lawn the grass in your lawn when
<v Speaker 2>you mow.
<v Speaker 1>So and I would think that probably do a little
<v Speaker 1>research on this, but you may have to look into
<v Speaker 1>it an inoculant at the time when you seed, so
<v Speaker 1>soaking the seeds, some stratification in inoculant. But then you
<v Speaker 1>can be successful, certainly in Michigan you can.
<v Speaker 2>And it's very long lived. It's a good perennial plant
<v Speaker 2>that's going to keep sewing, so keep us posted on
<v Speaker 2>the project. I would love to hear more about it.
<v Speaker 2>With that, we are going to take a little break.
<v Speaker 2>When we come back, we're finishing our conversation on pushing
<v Speaker 2>your hardiness own, so stay tuned. Thanks for listening to
<v Speaker 2>the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven Winners
<v Speaker 2>Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens
<v Speaker 2>are trialed and tested by experts with your success in mind.
<v Speaker 2>Learn more at Proven Winners color Choice dot com.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's been fun talking today about zone pushing. Let's
<v Speaker 1>touch on a couple of quick things. Stacey, I do
<v Speaker 1>want to mention right off the bat that warm micro
<v Speaker 1>climates micro cannot defeat macro. In other words, this past
<v Speaker 1>winter was so cold it could have killed it all.
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about my Peruvian lilies the Ulster area, still
<v Speaker 1>waiting to see if they made it. And if it's
<v Speaker 1>killed below ground, well then it's over. But it brings
<v Speaker 1>up the point that you can successfully zone push by
<v Speaker 1>mulching heavily in winter. And it's a good reminder that
<v Speaker 1>mulch is not permanent. And what I mean by that
<v Speaker 1>is you could pile on the mulch for winter, similar
<v Speaker 1>to what I do with my Musa bijoux. But then
<v Speaker 1>in spring you got to remember to pull it back.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, and that's a good strategy. We didn't
<v Speaker 2>We talked a lot about shrubs, because of course this
<v Speaker 2>is proven winter's color choice shrubs, but the mulch strategy
<v Speaker 2>is particularly effective for herbaceous perennials. Arbacious perennials die back
<v Speaker 2>to the ground completely. There are no parts above ground.
<v Speaker 2>So like when we have a fig, it's a woody plant,
<v Speaker 2>those plants are parts are above ground. They have to
<v Speaker 2>survive the winter. The roots are probably gonna be okay
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to something like elstermeiria or you know,
<v Speaker 2>the banana. Banana is actually a herbaceous perennial. They are
<v Speaker 2>not trees exactly, so those can all benefit from, you know,
<v Speaker 2>that thick pile of mulch. And I have also seen
<v Speaker 2>at a public garden of State New York Stonecrop Gardens
<v Speaker 2>in near cold Spring. Fabulous, fabulous garden. If you are
<v Speaker 2>in the New York City area and are looking for
<v Speaker 2>an amazing garden to visit, It's only open sometimes, but wow,
<v Speaker 2>what an amazing place. They were overwintering a gunnera so
<v Speaker 2>you know, yes, I mean, who doesn't love a gunner Yes,
<v Speaker 2>giant rubar has these massive, massive leaves and it's really
<v Speaker 2>considered a pretty tender plant. Grows perfectly swell out in
<v Speaker 2>Oregon and in England, but yeah, definitely tender. So they
<v Speaker 2>had a gunnerra that they heaped a mulch and manure on,
<v Speaker 2>and then they built a box for it out of
<v Speaker 2>those thick syrophoam insulation panels.
<v Speaker 1>Oh interesting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And they just used like some screws to screw
<v Speaker 2>it all together into like a big house around it.
<v Speaker 2>And they had been keeping that gunnarra for some time.
<v Speaker 1>That way, I hate to admit that I have participated
<v Speaker 1>in some of these kinds of way an it's good, Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I guess so, you know which which leads me to
<v Speaker 1>our next point. But before I go there, can you
<v Speaker 1>remind me what was the name of the botanical gardens?
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Stone Crop Gardens, stone Crop, Oh, yeah, such an
<v Speaker 2>amazing place. It's actually the personal garden of the gentleman
<v Speaker 2>who started the Garden Conservancy, Frank Kevit, So it was
<v Speaker 2>his US garden. He also has like culture vole in Quebec.
<v Speaker 2>That's his other garden. There's a documentary on that. But yeah,
<v Speaker 2>just an absolutely beautiful, interesting, fun, fun guarden.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, excellent. Thanks for bringing that up. I'm going to
<v Speaker 1>add it to the list of places I want to go.
<v Speaker 1>It does bring up the point as long as we're
<v Speaker 1>talking about zone pushing, and that is some people will
<v Speaker 1>try to push zones, not via panels or wind breaks
<v Speaker 1>or micro climates, but rather by wrapping plants. And this
<v Speaker 1>is a tough subject because I've seen some major mistakes
<v Speaker 1>made out there. I've seen people take garbage bags or
<v Speaker 1>sheet rolls of plastic with bungee cords and one of
<v Speaker 1>the worst things that you can do. If you want
<v Speaker 1>to kill a plant, go ahead and do that, So
<v Speaker 1>don't wrap in that manner. Now, of course, burlap works
<v Speaker 1>quite well, burlap breeze and when I was in the
<v Speaker 1>garden center industry Boy and Fall, we sold rolls and
<v Speaker 1>rolls and rolls of burlap. Some people. I have seen
<v Speaker 1>some people who use lights thinking they're Christmas lights or
<v Speaker 1>an incandescent bulb. Again, I don't recommend that. I think
<v Speaker 1>the key if you're going to provide some sort of
<v Speaker 1>wrap or protection is that you do have to have
<v Speaker 1>air movement, similar to the old styrofoam cones we used
<v Speaker 1>to use on roses. Always recommended taking a pencil and
<v Speaker 1>poking holes in the cone because otherwise stacy. Essentially you're
<v Speaker 1>creating a microwave ome.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know, especially if the plants are not
<v Speaker 2>completely dormant when you do surround them, which is to
<v Speaker 2>say they're still green and metabolizing, then all they're doing
<v Speaker 2>is putting out water vapor that's going to then condense
<v Speaker 2>in there and get it really soggy and bad news.
<v Speaker 1>So yes, exactly, high reflectivity on some surfaces on a home.
<v Speaker 1>And again I'm one of these people who's always testing
<v Speaker 1>this issue. Am I picking up a half a zone,
<v Speaker 1>maybe as much as as a zone by planting near
<v Speaker 1>the foundation of the house, not on the north side
<v Speaker 1>of the house, where the structural shade is unforgiving, but
<v Speaker 1>possibly on the west or the south side of the house,
<v Speaker 1>which brings up a point. And that is there has
<v Speaker 1>to be a reason why some orchards or people who
<v Speaker 1>grow fruit or grapes grow them on a slope. A
<v Speaker 1>slope provides better drainage, preventing wet feet and root rot,
<v Speaker 1>but increased solar exposure, especially on south facing slopes again
<v Speaker 1>is going to boost soil and air temperature for earlier
<v Speaker 1>ripening and better flavor. So maybe the fruit people are
<v Speaker 1>onto something there.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good way to use a slope too.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly. And paying attention to the water issue. If
<v Speaker 1>a plant sits in water all winter long, odds are
<v Speaker 1>you're going to lose it. And we've talked about plants
<v Speaker 1>that just cannot handle their wet feet or winter long.
<v Speaker 1>Raised beds are another way to kind of at least
<v Speaker 1>maybe not push the zone, but advance the season because
<v Speaker 1>soil that is above ground, especially if it's a sizable
<v Speaker 1>amount of soil in a raised bed, that soil is
<v Speaker 1>going to warm up quicker in spring, and in many
<v Speaker 1>cases we can get an earlier start, especially if you
<v Speaker 1>have some frost blankets where if we have a cold night,
<v Speaker 1>you're able to cover some of those plants. Thermal mass
<v Speaker 1>placing large rocks, water barrels, masonry near sensitive plants to
<v Speaker 1>absorb and release heat, wind breaks, using fences, hedges, woven
<v Speaker 1>panels to block cold wind, especially from the north or
<v Speaker 1>the west, and then if you really want to take
<v Speaker 1>it to the next level. Well, cold frames, Oh yeah,
<v Speaker 1>cold frame.
<v Speaker 2>May that works so so well for shrubs or perennials,
<v Speaker 2>but it's definitely a season extender.
<v Speaker 1>Well again, and I remember being on Cape cod and
<v Speaker 1>the frustration of people during a polar vortex winter, which
<v Speaker 1>doesn't happen every winter, But they got to the point
<v Speaker 1>Stacy where there are Macrophila hydranges. They were planting in
<v Speaker 1>large seven gallon tubs and then digging an area of
<v Speaker 1>soil out, framing it with wood and creating a frame,
<v Speaker 1>so to speak, to overwinter the plants. Because there's a
<v Speaker 1>lot of pressure on them. People come in summer expecting
<v Speaker 1>to see hydranges in bloom, not foliage.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's for sure. You know. I think there's two
<v Speaker 2>things that stick out to me about this whole conversation.
<v Speaker 2>Number one is that people need to know that the
<v Speaker 2>hardiness zones on a plant tag are general kind of assumptions.
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.
<v Speaker 2>It's not like there has been extensive scientific says. I
<v Speaker 2>hate to break this to you if you thought that
<v Speaker 2>there was some you know, authority here last we were
<v Speaker 2>talking about invasive plants and all the authorities involved in
<v Speaker 2>invasive plants. It's just the opposite here. Yes, the heartiness
<v Speaker 2>own system is administered by the USDA, but there has
<v Speaker 2>never been a massive study where everybody, you know, kind
<v Speaker 2>of collected all the data and they said, definitively, this
<v Speaker 2>plant is hardy to hear and hate tolerant to hear.
<v Speaker 2>So we do the best that we can, you know,
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of these are assumptions, but that's an
<v Speaker 2>opportunity for you to break the other thing that you know.
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's important that we kind of as
<v Speaker 2>we're winding down this conversation bring up is that very often,
<v Speaker 2>if you are the kind of gardener who wants to
<v Speaker 2>push your hardiness zone, you're probably going to have to
<v Speaker 2>either order your plants online or visit a garden center
<v Speaker 2>in another state, because chances are your garden center is
<v Speaker 2>only selling stuff that they believe to be hearty to
<v Speaker 2>your area. A lot of them, yes they should be,
<v Speaker 2>because a lot of them offer a guarantee, so they're
<v Speaker 2>not really going out on a limb and saying, hey,
<v Speaker 2>i'll bet you're an experimental gardener. Here's some fun stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Give it a try. So you do have to kind
<v Speaker 2>of go the extra step to the garden center as
<v Speaker 2>much as we encourage you to shop at your local
<v Speaker 2>independent garden center, if you're pushing your hard in a zone,
<v Speaker 2>it's probably not the best place to start to start,
<v Speaker 2>although certainly take a road trip down to the next
<v Speaker 2>harding a zone or one down from there and see
<v Speaker 2>what you can find.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which brings up the point. I think that mid
<v Speaker 1>section of the US Tennessee, North Carolina, Kentucky, southern Ohio,
<v Speaker 1>southern Indiana, Illinois, Well, you guys live in a great area,
<v Speaker 1>because if there's an area there where I would be
<v Speaker 1>putting my foot on the gas and really zone pushing,
<v Speaker 1>it would be there. I mean, you know, because odds
<v Speaker 1>are here in Michigan we're going to get a cold winter,
<v Speaker 1>but boy, I would gamble. So in summary here, Stacy,
<v Speaker 1>do you think it's a good idea to suggest to
<v Speaker 1>people that they zone push.
<v Speaker 2>I think if you are the type of person who
<v Speaker 2>likes to learn from your gardening, have something no one
<v Speaker 2>else has, and you're willing to possibly take a little
<v Speaker 2>bit of a loss for all of that potential gain.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and I feel the same way. Of course, I
<v Speaker 1>could be criticized because, again, having worked in the garden center,
<v Speaker 1>my industry my whole life. I mean the business of
<v Speaker 1>selling plans, but aside from that, what I do personally
<v Speaker 1>I zone push. I do too, you bet. Thanks Stacy,
<v Speaker 1>thanks Rick, Thanks Adriana, and thanks to you for watching
<v Speaker 1>us on YouTube, downloading our podcast, or listening to our
<v Speaker 1>radio show version. Have yourself a great week