Navigating Love After Divorce: A Roadmap for Parents

Robin Fisher Roffer: Did you ever hear any teenager saying that I'm angry? Very less kids actually say that I'm angry. Instead, as parents, if we try to see what is driving this behavior, don't they throw the backpack and go, they shut down the room, they don't eat or they slam the door. What happened? At school, they are going through so many social emotional things going on. Young minds, 14 year old, 15 year old kids, they have a crush on a girl. The girl does not reciprocate. their heart is broken and in front of them the girl goes into, goes and finds another guy. They're like, oh my, can you imagine, forget about teenagers, right? For a grownup, when you like somebody and you are still not expressing it and you see you are like so crushed on that person and that person goes and they don't even, they have no idea. Then imagine how a younger kid is going through that. Can you even imagine? Welcome to the Plenty of Husbands podcast for women who are older, wiser, and hotter. This is where we inspire women in midlife to believe that they can love again. And I'm your host, Robin Fisher-Roffer. Now let's meet today's guest. Today we have this fantastic guest who's here to help women over 40 navigate the complexities of dating, especially when children from divorced families are involved. Now she's a life coach, she's a behavioral specialist. Her unique philosophy on love and dating emphasizes that love is shown through daily actions and priorities rather than just grand gestures. Now believing that lasting love is built on deep friendship and emotional safety, she encourages us to embrace our vulnerability with our partners. In her approach, she merges radical acceptance. with gentle influence, teaching us how to handle conflicts with patience and understanding. So today, we'll explore the powerful idea that soulmates are created, not just found. And she'll share insights on how to focus on the quality of our relationships, especially as we juggle the challenges of dating with children. Now she has a blend of traditional wisdom and modern empowerment. And this guest embodies the balance we all need in love and partnership. Let's welcome Mathuri Garakapati. I am so happy that you're here today. Thank you, Robin. That was a wonderful introduction and I'm humbled by the great introduction that you have given me. I'm glad to be here. I'm so happy you're here. I want to know first, what inspired you to become a life coach and behavioral specialist, particularly focusing on teens? and their parents. So I have two boys, 21 year old and 14 year old. So I think the most I learned, I am from IT, I have an IT background. Four years I worked in IT. But motherhood is something that taught me to a great deal about emotional regulation. And whenever I saw my kids, I come from a very conservative family, a disciplined family. My mom raised me really well. But for me, I thought that you don't have to say because I said so. ⁓ Interesting, yes. As a mom, I never wanted to say because I said so. Now did your mom say because I said so? No, we just listened. Me and my brother, I don't know how we, if she said something, we did it. We never questioned, we never rebelled as teenagers. I don't know why. This is funny because my father always said to me, no means no. And I would say, but why? And he said, you heard me. And that was it. So I appreciate what you're talking about. So I always thought that especially because I'm an Indian and for me culture and tradition was very obvious. It was in the face everywhere. When I came here, I thought I will teach my kids culture, but I will explain everything behind everything we do. I'll not just say you have to do this because we do this. So in that way, early on, I started explaining everything to my kids because I am, I need to know why. for everything I need to know why, otherwise I won't do it. So I know it is like a conflicting because, then how come you just listen to your mom? I'm like, I don't know, I just listened. But still my mom says I'm a rebel. She says, you're a rebel teenager. I'm like, what, me? Then you haven't seen girls. You were such an easy kid, but then your mom still caused you a rebel. Is that cultural? I mean, you just can't be perfect in Indian culture. because I used to, I used to subtly show my mom. I actually, when I was growing up, when I was a teenager, I went to a British library and I saw books on Indian customs and traditions written by a Britisher because like outsider, how are they looking at it? Right. There was a guy who wrote a book called Scientific Reasons Behind Indian Superstitions. I got the book and read it and I'm like, ⁓ in India, everything is said in the fear of God. You should not do this. Otherwise you will be sinning or you will be doing the wrong thing. You'll go to hell. But then. The scientific reason behind it, I understood that and said, ⁓ they did not get the scientific reason because they thought not everybody's educated. So let me just say fear of God, you'll go to hell. So I understood the scientific reasons and I was like, Amma, do you know? Mom, do you know why we are doing this? It was like a moment for me and she's like, you have to everything in a book. Can't you just do because it is to be done. That is how it has to be done. You made me curious. You're a why person. Why, why you kept asking. So you were curious. So this conversations that you'd have with your mother, that idea of being a coach for teens and parents, I can see how that evolved because you were this curious teenager, right? You became a very curious, educated woman. And, you know, I want to dig into something that I know that my viewers are really interested in, my viewers and my listeners. They're mostly single women. They're in midlife. They want to believe that they can love again. But many of our listeners and viewers have teens and young adult children. Can you give us a peek inside those young minds and hearts that are going through a divorce or maybe their father has passed? And what do moms need to pay attention to as teens are going through these changes and young adults? Oftentimes working with teens, what I realized is anything that they don't understand. First of all, the emotional awareness, irrespective of which country you are growing up in, there is so much lack of emotional awareness. Even to understand what am I going through? Am I overwhelmed or am I sad? Am I depressed? Am I anxious? Do you know there are 84 human emotions, but we bundle everything until three or four. Wait, let me get this right. There's 84 human emotions, but we only bundle them under three or four. And can you tell us what the three or four are? Usually everything that is negative, like that does not make us feel good, we say, I'm sad. It makes me sad. Or I'm not happy. Everything that makes us feel good, we say it is, I'm happy. I'm excited. I'm sad. I'm anxious. I'm depressed. Even people don't even use the words. But these days, so instead of that, did you ever hear any teenager saying that I'm angry? Very less kids actually say that I'm angry. No, just act out. Act out. Instead, as parents, if we try to see what is driving this behavior, don't they throw the backpack and go, they shut down the room, they don't eat or they slam the door. What happened? At school, they are going through so many social emotional things going on. Young minds, 14 year old, 15 year old kids, they have a crush on a girl. The girl does not reciprocate. Their heart is broken. In front of them, the girl goes and finds another guy. They're like, oh my. Can you imagine, forget about teenagers. For a grown up, when you like somebody and you are still not expressing it, and you see you are like so crushed on that person and that person goes and they don't even, they have no idea. Then imagine how a younger kid is going through that. Can you even imagine? I'm sorry, I see that you're tearing up a little bit. No, I'm just thinking about being rejected and how that must feel. And then at home, you have a single parent now, or you're bouncing back and forth between two homes. And now dad has brought home a new girlfriend that's around your age, or mom is starting to go out and you know she's not going out with her girlfriends like she says she is. She's actually going out with some guy, but she doesn't want to introduce you to them yet. She doesn't want you to really talk about it. So there's all these secrets. while you're struggling with this girl that you have a crush on or this boy that you have a crush on. And will the girls like me today because I wore this outfit that's a little out there and you know, and all the judgment. And so there's just a myriad of things going on. What can moms do to pay attention to some of these things that are going on and be there for their kids when they're also probably hurting from the breakup or maybe they're in the middle of a legal fight. Yeah. So first thing is kids. We feel that they are still teenagers, but they are very mature as well. don't want mom is going through so much. I don't want to be a burden on her. So I will try to deal with whatever I'm going through. Mine is very small when compared to her problem. ⁓ They think that way. So what parents need to do is I have something called a pause framework. P-A-U-S-E pause. It is literally first pinpoint the trigger. When they come home, they're upset. They don't want to talk. Fine. Wait for some time. If you don't say anything, you are at the end of the day, whether you believe it or not, you are their world. They want to share things with you. If you are approachable, if you are non-judgmental, if you are responding instead of reacting, if you truly want to know their world, they will come to you. So you have to present. It is very difficult, especially when a woman is going through divorce or all these things, to be put together like that. But what I say is I have worked with lot of single women, issues like this either their divorce or their husband passed away or you know whatever it is very difficult for them because they feel very very lonely but you feeling very lonely not telling your kids anything or getting trying to stay away you are actually creating more and more wider issue there instead you show your vulnerability to your kids that yes i have issues too then they will share you know what happened you know when i was a Share your teenage stories. Everybody says, oh, I did so many bad things when I was a teenager. I cannot even tell my kids. You can, of course, but discretion, right? Not depending on their age. Do tell them. Then what happens is they will, do you know, when I had my first crush, I came home, my dad was so upset with me for coming late after my curfew. And I just, I was like, I wanted to share with him. I'm so happy. I shared with him everything. I just slammed the door and went in. This kid will be like, I was very upset because I wanted to share. So what you can even make up the stories. Who cares? Who knows what you did, right? Well, love that. love, I love that. I mean, just don't, just don't tell the facts. Tell a story. Right? I always say facts tell, but stories sell and they get deep into the heart of who you're telling the story to. And they can open up in your child, their story. So I was. When I became divorced at the age of 50, I was on my own. was raising my child, Roxy, all alone. And I told her everything. I told her what I was going through, how I was feeling. But you know what I didn't tell her? How I felt about her dad. I didn't tell her anything. never took, you know, I never made her take a side or anything. I just focused on. I think I'm gonna start dating now. I'll tell you about the guy I'm dating." And it wasn't like she was my confidant. It was just, I'm sharing and then she would share. It's funny when women moms want their kids to open up and tell the truth, but they won't open up and tell the truth. They'll keep everything they're doing inside, and the kids know they're smart, they see there's a secret going on, then they start to keep secrets. And I think that's what you're saying. If you keep secrets, kid keeps secrets, and then the communication gets further and further away. And then you're being judgmental about what they're doing, but you're not being forthcoming either. Yes. ⁓ I personally feel that I cannot let my kids expect anything from my kids that I'm not doing myself. When I ask them to do something, do you be grateful for this? I have to show that I am grateful for things in my life. I have a family gratitude journal that I put on the console table and I said, we are four of us, my husband and two kids. We all have to write down every day. put the date. It's just a notebook. I put a date. I put each of our initials and say, we have to write what we are grateful for. That's nice. My younger one, my older one is sensible. He's 21 and he really writes what it is. My younger one, it's like, ⁓ my God, what am I? I don't have anything to be grateful for. And my older son said, come on, you're so privileged, write something. Then he started writing, I'm grateful for my AirPods. There is no humans, okay? I'm grateful for my AirPods. I'm grateful for my laptop. Now, yesterday I was literally reading four things. I'm grateful for knives. I'm grateful for forks. I'm grateful for my charger. It's like, okay. And in between he wrote, I'm grateful for teacher Carol for my violin lessons. Well, that's see, it's just a practice and it's not perfect. It gets better and better as we practice being grateful. And I love writing down what we're grateful for. And I love sharing around a table what we're grateful for. I think that's beautiful. And it opens people up again. I'm grateful for the knife and fork because, and then you tell a story. he reads everybody else's and he has, said you're grateful for Robin. I never heard her name. Who is she? She's from the podcast and we talk about it, right? That small thing will open up for a story. That's so beautiful. I love that. ⁓ can moms communicate effectively with their children about their dating lives without causing anxiety and discomfort? You talked about Paws. First of all, I want to go back. Did I get everything on Paws? You P is pinpoint. then wait, I got to the other ones. Then we're going to go back to that question. So P is pinpoint the trigger. Okay. is acknowledge your reaction. Interesting. Okay. Be conscious. When you shut down the door on me as a kid, how am I reacting? Acknowledge my reaction and there is no right or wrong. It can be anything. The day I had a long day and I'm like really frustrated, I can be like, you mad? I'm like screaming, you cannot do this to me. Like, know, do you even know what I'm going through? Doesn't matter. That is my reaction. And I can say something like, I can see that you're frustrated. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to say anything else, just say, can tell me more. Yeah. Okay, so that P, you got P is pinpoint. Pinpoint entry point. And then anyone's acknowledged, now what? Three, you is understand their world, irrespective of what we are going through, in their world, even a little thing, their friend circle, social circle, let's say there is so much of social bullying going on in schools right now. Like you are not wearing these clothes, you cannot sit with our circle. Oh, you are not in this advanced class, you cannot sit with us right now. We don't know, like lot of things are going on. I heard one boy who did not get into the basketball team. The other kids, four kids, they stopped sitting with him because like, oh, now we are in a basketball league. You are not, so you don't know. You'll not understand what we are talking. Oh my gosh. They're sixth graders. Acknowledge what your kids are going through. That's the other one. Understand their world. Understand that thing. When it comes, like, are you kidding me? You are not in one bathroom. I'm going to get it. I want to make sure our listeners. So P is pinpoint. A is acknowledge. And then U is understand. And then what? then this is shift your perception. Shift your approach. Instead of reacting, respond. Shift your approach. And then E is engage with curiosity. Ask questions. Ask questions. Tell me more. I say to my daughter all the time. And she's 26 now. Tell me more about that and then pause. There you go. There's the pause again. That it's, it's, you know, get curious and then pause, do it all over again. All this takes, it like, it might sound like a big framework or a thing, but it all takes like 30 seconds. Right. Or one minute. That's it. And the more you practice, I tell my clients to actually put this. I have a, I will give you after this for your clients. have a download for this with examples. Great, yes, let's give that as a gift, the pause framework. I asked parents to put it on their fridge, and it is not just for parents, kids, anybody. Everybody needs to pause, right? Absolutely, I love that. Okay, now my next question that I asked, but that I realized we hadn't finished paused. How can moms comfortably communicate and do it effectively with their children about their dating lives without causing them anxiety and discomfort? In other words, where's the boundary? Right? I tell, he took me on a date, we did this, this, and this. Where does that end? Can I talk about how I'm feeling about him? Do I say, we'll see what happens? Like, where do I hit the pause button and stop talking? So I feel that everybody needs friends of their own age. So I need to have girlfriends of my own age to share how I feel about a guy or something. That is for that. With my kids, I need to let them understand that You are seeing me only as a mom. I want you to see me as a woman. I'm a woman. I need friendships. I need adult friendships. I need support. A girlfriend, then they're like, obviously the converts, ⁓ you have, you have on Robin, you have this, you have that. Why do you need a male friend? Cause I need a support. Aunt Robin has her own life, her family. We are good friends. We go on like, you know, coffees or lunches, but I need somebody like a family. I need a support. So I'm a woman. I need my own family. And I'm exploring right now. I'm not settling with this guy. I'm exploring until I find the right person who will embrace you also as a family. And I think that's the criteria, personally, but I want to know your opinion. I always said to Roxy, my daughter, when I was dating, if you don't like him, we're done. And I got to tell you, I held to that. And I ended up, the last nine years, I've been with somebody that Roxy absolutely loves. His name's Brian. We live in this house. the love of my life I found at 55. But I talked to her about it. I would come home from a date and I'd say, I don't know, you know, he's just, he's just going through the divorce. And I just don't, she would go, mom, don't screw this up. She was cheering for me to find the right person. She found somebody she liked for me. And I had to all of a sudden say, wait a second, if my daughter likes him, there's something there. If she doesn't like them, there's something there. Kids are very perceptive, you know, no BS. So I think that's interesting what you're saying. What do you think about what I just said, how I would share that? So yes, you can say that, but I think that saying that if you don't like them, I will not go with that guy. Instead of that, what is it that you don't like in this person? Let's say you really like some guy. Your daughter said, really? Him? Mom, you can do better. Why? Why do you think so? Because understand her why. everything right. I say understand the why behind the statement. Okay, you can do better. Better in what? Like he's not funny enough, caring enough. Find out that point. love that you're saying get it's going back to pause. Get curious. Tell me more. What don't you like about him? Why do you think I could do better? What kind? What is better? You know, I love that. So get underneath it. And sometimes maybe let's say you are very well accomplished financially, you're very independent. You're going for some guy who is not as independent or who is an artist or who does not like, who is not as ambitious. Let's say you're very ambitious, but you love a person who is not very ambitious. Now your daughter, let's she'll say, mom, you're very ambitious. It's not so ambitious, but what if you're okay with it? And your daughter is not okay with not let because see you both are at the end of the day, two different individuals, right? Yeah. We're two different people. So what she likes in a guy, maybe that is not your entire criteria. Your criteria might be. I'm okay if a guy is not ambitious because he need not support me. I am financially independent. Interesting. So having this dialogue is so important, but what should moms kind of keep? What should they share and what should they keep to themselves? Like what are some of the things we, it's just not appropriate to share with your kid when you're dating. I think it is not appropriate to share your personal intimate life because kids, can never see their parents that way. They're like, ⁓ Stop ma! I won't read the details. the other thing is start sharing about what you like in that person. Because see, at the end of the day, we all have pros and cons, right? We all have pros and cons. Anytime there is a spark among two people, you only focused on the good in them at that point. Now, as time goes on, things change. You evolve, they evolve. What if you're evolving exponentially and they are not? That's when the strain happens and love has an expression sometimes. Yeah. Love of your life need not be for your, in that moment, if they are giving you happiness, that means you are in the same plane of existence and you like them. we all are constantly growing, but in our own pace, what if you're going like this and he's also growing, but in this way, the moment the gap increases, you feel that person is not right with you. That's fine too. And that does not mean you failed because you moved on. What is wrong in you growing really big? Or you're not growing, he's growing this much. There is nothing wrong. You have to find somebody who's compatible with you. In that moment, in that phase of time, if they make you happy, be with them. Because when you are happy, that's when you become your best. I love that. Yes. It shouldn't be such a struggle. In my relationship with my partner, Brian, we've intentionally blended our families. So we have... twins that are 26 year old. My daughter, Roxy's 26 and then we have a son who's 29. And all of them have partners. Roxy's still single and working on her career. The other ones have all partnered up. And now we have a family, including Brian and me, a nine people where it was just Roxy and me at the beginning. We take family trips. We celebrate the holidays together. I wanted to ask you what you think are the do's and don'ts for women who are wanting to blend. families with their partner. When you are blending your families, you need to understand that the other kids, your partner's kids, have grown up in a different environment. Their values could be different. Your values could be different. So then again, for everything, be curious. For everything, the solution is pause, right? When the other family, when you start living together, let's say you are used to having family breakfast as a family. It made sense because it was just you and your daughter at that time. Now the age group might be different, their school or their class times, their extra classes, my zero period, everything is different. Or they have early morning meeting. So people need to rush off and say, what? You're not going to, I, family breakfast is very important for me. We start the day like that. Why it's not happening. Instead, take what you have, do the best you can. At the end of the day, family breakfast is a family ritual, right? But don't let everybody have family breakfast if that wasn't how they grew up. Then can we do one meal together? Can we do dinner together instead? Well, what I hear you saying is don't put the values that you raised your child with, that she grew up with, on the other kids that are your partners. And don't try to force it all. Make it sort of organic and natural and pick one thing that we can all agree on. We're going to just have dinner together when we visit. Or we have dinner once a week if they live in town. Something like that where it's not every night or we're trying to impose. You know, we do it this way, you need to do it this way. Yeah, don't be rigid. Be flexible to see because at the end of the day, what do you, why, again, ask the why. Why did I have family breakfast with my kid? Why did I enforce that rule? Because that is the time I can talk to her a little bit about, what's happening in school? What's happening here? So the bottom line is you get time to, that few minutes to focus and talk to them. Can we get that in some other format? not necessarily at the dining table. understand why you're doing it and see how you can get the same thing in some other way. Maybe you can start new rituals as a family, right? New rituals sounds like a great idea. That's what we've been doing. A lot of new rituals. I love that. Start new rituals. Don't try to force the way that you did things on the rest of this family that you're trying to blend. That's beautiful. How can women create an an environment of emotional safety when dating, especially after experiencing some past relationship challenges. How can they get themselves ready for love, open for love? First thing is you need to have any women or men, they need to have their own boundaries. You need to have your own safe space. I love you, but this is my time. My boundaries, like if I say no, it is a no. I feel that a woman's identity is that. What are your values? What do you stand by? What do you not agree to? And if you're very sure about it, the other person will definitely agree to it. is you have to be 100 % sure about it. You have to know who you are when you're entering this new relationship. So one of the things is I believe in is doing some repair work on yourself before you jump in the other relationship. Figure out what your part was. I think that that's going to help you to the closer you can get to the true authentic you. Peel all the layers that were put upon you in the last relationship and sit down with this new person and be brand new with them authentically yourself. Do you think that's like, you gotta do that internal work before you can bring somebody new in. Don't you agree? Yes. I will give you an example. I have this client of mine who, very unfortunate, her husband passed away in a road accident. She was marrying for one and a half years or something, that's it. She was pregnant with twins. four months pregnant with poop at that time. My God. Her parents and in-laws said, are 22, she's highly educated, she was working. You are 22, if you have twins, it's unlikely that you will get married again. Difficult. So it's still four months, why don't you abort? She aborted the kids because she had a very loving in-laws family, very loving parents. So she did not know, she's first time kids, she did not know, she was in shock. She was not able to accept that her husband passed away. She was angry and she did not know she aborted. It became so traumatic to her. She was going through the trauma. She kept on thinking. She hated kids. She's like, I think this happened because I don't deserve kids. I don't have what. She started hating kids. Okay. She did not know why she was hating kids. I hate it when kids make all this noise and chaos. I'm very organized person. All these things. Right. And then she was not willing to. marry again because she was not over that shock of her husband. And I did some self-acceptance improvement works with ladies workshops. I did mirror work, shadow work, understand your own shadow. What is my dark side? I need to know my dark side. Most of us, we don't want to hear. If I say, Robin, why are you so arrogant? I'm like, what? I'm not arrogant. We never know. I'm a nice person. I'm confident. I'm not arrogant. Yeah. It just, you know, tiny, it crosses over that. Have you, nobody told you that? You know, unless very good friends of yours, nobody tells you that. We need to know ourselves why things are bothering us. I did mirror work for four months, shadow work for eight months with her, like with a group of women. The transformation is so amazing. Now, after I think two years or something, she has accepted her husband's death. She moved on and then now she liked another guy who is a total narcissist. She was like, she liked him, whatever reason, right? First, you never know why you like somebody. It's magical. She was that. After two months, she contacted me and she said, I want to ask your advice. He started to telling me what I should do, what I should not do. He said, I'm financially independent. You can come to Australia. You need not work at all. But I want to work. I like working. don't like, you know, she started telling me all those things. And I said, understand your why. Why are you getting into this relationship? And what are you running away from? If you're actually compromising on something. You're running away from something. so that you should never do anything in urgency. You should, if, if they know they say true love, it, what do you call it? It, um, the test of time, it lives through the test of time or something. It's true. The test of time. lives through the test of time. Absolutely. Oh, if I'm doing something urgently, can wait, Hey, let's get married next month. What is the urgency? They will wait for you. Or I'm not ready for marriage. Let's wait. What is, what are we rushing for? Yeah. This is miraculous what you've done with this woman. Like you said, she'd only been married a year and a half. Her husband died. I already was like, this is terrible. She's 22 years old. Awful. Twins. She's pregnant with twins. What is she going to do? She aborts it. And you helped her find her path back to loving herself. And I'm assuming she's walking away from this narcissist who's so. She did, she said, you know what, I'm breaking up with him, I'm not going with him. That reflection. At first she got carried away, that finally, and why? Because she thought, oh, I'm all right now she's 26 or 28 or something. 26, I don't know how old she is, but the thing is she's like, I think the clock is ticking. I need to get married. I need, if I have, want to have kids, I want to have like, you know, but don't because these are all short-term things, right? Your decision should never be based on something that is not your love or. consistency, compatibility, will you be happy with that person? Because at the end of the day, if you're not happy, it is better to be single than not happy. So take your time, because love will stand the test of time, true love. Yes. Work on yourself, figure out your shadow side, and get clear, right? That's what I'm hearing from you. I love that. What advice do you have for women who feel torn between this new relationship that they have that's come into their life and their loyalty to their children? You know, I really can't right now. have the kids, you know, or the kids are like, I don't want you to be with anybody but our dad, and they're still stuck in the past. They can't let go of that marriage with the father that is no longer. Do you have any tips for handling those kind of conflicts with children? You need to talk to them. You need to explain to them because attachment is actually not true love. If you really love a person, you are not attached to them. It is detachment. It's like you let them be. for some reason, whatever you can tell it, you are not, I'm not asking you to see your dad in this person. Your dad is your dad. We are not taking that away from you. We will celebrate your dad's birthdays, everything, father's day, everything for you guys with your dad, like with your dad's memory. This person is my new husband, will be my new husband. Don't impose to them that he will be your father. You have to replace your father's ideas. Don't do that because let them have the precious memories for however long they want to hold on to. That is fine. you need, basically again, you need to, if you communicate with your kids well, you can tell them, see me as a woman. I need a partner. You can communicate that with your kids and you need not, if the kids are not ready to see this person as a father. or call them dad or anything, that's fine. Eventually they will because see you are spending time with that person and you took your own time to get to know that person. They did not, right? So it takes time for them. This person has to impress them with his charm and everything, right? So absolutely. It's not fair to not give the dad a chance and the kids a chance to bond and you should know, let them be, let them not call dad. Let them take their time and your likes and their likes could be different. ⁓ This is so freeing for me. Your likes and what your children like could be different. What they would want in a partner could be different. What they would want in a partner for you could be different than what you want. So keep communicating what you love about this person and get curious, as we talked about at the beginning, about what they aren't liking in that person or what they wish that person had that he doesn't. Continue to listen and be curious and be non-judgmental and love them for where they're at, you know, but love yourself too, right? That's great. One last question I wanted to ask you was about handling exes with patience and understanding. One of the things that I did because when I got divorced, and you can tell me I did this wrong too, but when I got divorced, again, it was just Roxy and me. I had full custody and it was a very difficult marriage and divorce. And because Roxy was 13, I said, you can now have a relationship with your father, however you want to have that relationship. I will not be in the middle. I will not stand in the way. You know, he was, we were living in Santa Fe. He was living in Los Angeles. You make that work. And I trusted her to do that. And I didn't get involved. And I let her have that on her own. And I think it created a maturity in her and an independence to make her own choice without my judgment and overseeing. Do you recommend that? Is that a good idea or was that just something unique to my circumstance? think you're very lucky that your daughter is very mature. Okay. I would say trust, but verify. I so too. I would say trust, but verify. Trust that your daughter is mature enough to do things, but at the end of the day, she's 15 years old, right? So check in. Check in. Check in with them. Hey, are you okay? Do you need anything from me? How can I help you with this? How can I support you? Yeah. That's so great. I love that. That was really, that's really, I'm sure, so helpful to everybody who's listening and viewing right now. I am so excited you came on the show. I had so many questions and we're going to have to do this again, I think, because there's going to be a part two, because you have just a wealth of information. And I know our listeners and viewers are going to have so many questions. So please come back. But in the meantime, how can listeners and viewers stay connected with you? So my website is path. to courage. I literally help people on a path. walk with them. I show them the path to have the courage to do what makes them happy. So path to courage, everyone is a path to courage.com. Yes, that's a URL. Yeah. And they can email me Madhuri my first name at path to courage.com. And I'm going to give you the link for the pause framework. They can download it and work use that as a sample. and they can reach out to me from my website or my email address. So we're going to put all of that in the description of the show and we're going to have a link to how to get your PAWS framework, which I absolutely want up on the wall here in the office. So I love that you have given us a wealth of information. Thank you so much. And all right, everyone. I mean, that's a wrap for today's episode of Plenty of Husbands. Until next time, this is Robin Fisher-Roffer. reminding you to practice those ABCs of love, action, belief, and courage. It's time to step into your next chapter and live your greatest love story. Thank you so much for being here today. I had a great time talking to you and I learned so much. See you next time. Thank you, Robin. Thank you very much. Bye.