Current State of WWE: Does CM Punk Return to WWE? Payback Wrap-Up

This is www superstar Drew McIntyre, and you're listening to the w w E
podcast. Stop the show, the one that everybody wants me well start three
sixteen says just Clift. Your ass is moder You're gonna acknowledge me. Everybody.
Welcome to the current state of w w E E Boyder. We have
a lot to talk about tonight with our co host every week, Anthony DeMarco
as Yes, payback has just occurred, well two nights ago. We'll put
a bow on that, wrap it up real nice for you and put it
under the Christmas tree and it'll be the final discussion about Payback tonight. We'll
do that in the second half, and I mean we'll we'll start in just
a moment with the whole cm punk rumors and coming to w w E.
Should he should he not? Will he? Will he not? So we'll
start with all of that in just a minute. But first, welcome to
show Anthony. How you doing man? Not too bad man. You know,
had a good time watching Payback, and you know it's a B level
pay per view. Nothing astronomical happened, nothing super groundbreaking happened, but I
think that it was just another example that in under the Triple H era,
we should always give pay per views the band for the doubt, and not
to say that every pay per view is going to be a home run.
Like I thought, SummerSlam was disappointing relatively speaking to its expectations and the overall
history of that event. But under Triple H is regime here that has been
going on for about thirteen months or so, maybe a bit longer than that,
and we've talked about a lot too, is that even B level pay
per views now feel important. And I think that relatively speaking, payback did
deliver. Yeah, it did. I mean I came away the same way
I felt about so many other events other than SummerSlam. Oddly enough, I
felt the same way about about ninety percent of the events since the Triple H
regime took over and came away going wow, Okay, that was way better.
And I attributed it a lot to the wrestlers themselves, not necessarily to
the booking, although the booking was generally good. I attributed it to the
guys and gals in the ring who were able to have enough time to tell
a story. That's what they're trained to do, That's what they did at
a premium level last night, particularly with Trish and Attrish and Becky Lynch,
and they over delivered on so many levels. I mean, I'm not trying
to go through match by match here, but if you're if you're looking at
this from an expectation standpoint and you're going, man, this match totally blew
me away from what I thought it was going to be. Was that one
of those matches for sure? And I think overall that entire program has been
underwhelming. But you know, even though it's been underwhelming, I'm happy that
we saw it right. And I know a lot of people have been dunking
on Trish here, but if I'm being honest, that program was more underwelling
because of Becky Lynch. And I just think that Becky Lynch has been stale
for quite a while now, And I go all the way back to her
feud with Bailey last year that was mega stale and really nobody had any interest
in. And I just think that Becky has kind of been the common denominator
here in terms of I don't want to say boring, but just stale storytelling.
And it feels like she's caught in a time machine and won't leave two,
eighteen or nineteen, And you know, I actually I like Trish's work.
Is she, you know, an A plus entering performer? Is she,
you know, even in the top five of women wrestlers right now?
Obviously not, But I really think that Trish came back in the semi full
time run since let's say, WrestleMania and has really given us a lot.
Like I can't say enough about Trish, and relatively speaking, I don't know
what more we could have expected of her, including elevating a star and Zoe
Stark, Like Zoe Stark already feels like a star, and look a lot
of that is on Zoey Stark's part, on her alone, and she's an
incredible shape. I think she's already a decent promo good in the ring,
but Trish has elevated her and kind of put her over after the cage match
on Saturday night. And to be quite honest, I lie this more at
the feet of Becky Lynch as to why this program kind of felt flat even
though the final payoff was more was over delivered, let's say, more than
what we were expecting. That's an interesting take, you know, I didn't
think that, you know, as you look at the Becky Lynch and Trish
program. A lot of people were saying, Oh, it's Trish, she
shouldn't be here. You know, she can't cut good promos all of that
stuff, and some of the criticisms are fair, but people very rarely are
looking at Becky as the culprit of this. And it is kind of an
interesting argument to me made that Becky has actually been the one that's been flat
and nominator. Yeah, that's what it is, And it's weird to say,
given all that she's accomplished, But she feels, now that you bring
it up, kind of like she's been going through the motions of her programs
for a while and she went from a heel all of a sudden transition back
to the man literally overnight, you know, went immediately back to that character,
no changes, like you said, back to the twenty eighteen WrestleMania thirty
five main event man. And you know, while there's nothing wrong with that
inherently, it's just kind of a de evolution of the character, or rather
a kind of sustained character that feels like it needs to evolve more. Her
promos haven't exactly been on fire. It does feel like she's been uninspired for
a while, and people keep waiting for her to go to Rhea, which
I thought was going to happen after this matchup. But it looks like she's
going to Tiffany Stratton over on SmackDown. She's the NXT Women's Championship be so
I guess Becky, he's going to be going over there floating around for a
while before they get to Rhea and Becky. So yeah, but hey,
credit to Trish in this. Trish killed it. She I don't know if
anyone saw her post match, but she had a massive mike. God.
She doesn't need to be doing this right now, she I mean, like
her age, her legacy, she doesn't need to be doing this. So
people went into this going, oh my god, I want this program to
end, and people came out going, man, I actually wouldn't mind one
more match from Trish or you know, if this program went one more time,
I don't know if I'd really hate it because the match was so damn
good and I don't This arguably may have been Trish's best match ever when you
think about her her body of work, you know it may have been from
a wrestling perspective, one of her best. So yeah, I really had
no issues of this. It completely blew away expectations. So now what about
some other big stuff. I don't know if you wanted to comment on it
with Shintigan Kamara and Seth Rollins. That was the other thing I wanted to
ask to Did you enjoy that match and enjoy the outcome? Yeah? I
it was somewhat predictable, But I think that you brought up a good point.
I believe it was your raw review last week where or maybe your payback
preview, I'm not quite sure what it was, but you said just the
fact that there was a little seat of doubt planted about Shinsky winning. They
did their job, and I just think that again under the Triple A regime,
and it doesn't come without flaws, but I think what he has done
terrifically is has made you care about stories that you know that you know three,
four or five years ago you wouldn't have cared about. And you know
that if this program was going on, and let's say twenty seventeen, like
when Shinsky was feuding with Ginder Mahal for the WWE Championship, you wouldn't have
cared and you wouldn't have thought Shinsky had a snowballs chance of hell of weighing
the championship. But that's the way that we came into this. As soon
as we saw saw Shinsky attack Seth, we were just like, Okay,
here's just a filler feud, while Seth waits for his bigger and his more
true opponent, a true risk at this. All of a sudden we got
a true mission from Shinsky, and you saw a big, deep dive into
character development and motivation and why Shinsky was doing this. And I think we've
seen that at all levels here, like where you will care about matches because
of builds that you typically wouldn't really give a damn about. And you know,
I always equal like I don't always, but one thing that I would
equate it to was like the Alpha Academy against the Viking Raiders from let's say
a month or two ago, where no one really cared about it wasn't all
that significant, but wwe invested time into at least creating some kind of a
story telling us as to why this was happening. And I felt they did
that tenfold with Shinsky. Nakamura a bit of a predictable outcome obviously with Seth
retain the championship, especially at a B level pay per view, But it
was a good match, and there was that seed of doubt of Shinsky actually
being a truth that threat to the Seth championship. That's all you can ask
for. And just people that were down on this program, you know,
and I was like everyone else when this first happened, Like you said,
we were just like, okay, we Shinsk, he'll turn. I guess
fine, you know it'll it'll be okay, you know the Let Shinsk say
five words and that'll be it. And we got a transitional segment with Shinsky
that tore apart. His family, talked about sets back, brought to light
and injury that many of us didn't know existed. That is real. Let
Shinsky speak in his native language. His body language is just superb. The
way that he attacks Seth and then just kind of stared at him, his
attacks from behind, it's all been brilliant. The match that they had here
was I mean, it's as good as you could have hoped it would be
for an in ring perspective. Again, not perfect, but I wasn't expecting
perfection. But there were moments in that match with the you know, the
kinshasa from behind. I go, you know, hey, this isn't impossible
here, It's not impossible. The story was his back and the targeting of
his back. Excellent story to tell. People came out of this really hoping
for another and from what I understand, that's actually what is tentatively scheduled for
fast Lane is uh, you know, part two of Shinska and Seth,
a program that perhaps maybe we looked at and said, yeah, there's a
one off, we'll go to somebody else in fast Lane. But now they
have a true opponent in Shinska, and people want more of him. And
you know what, even when Shinsky gets away from Seth and I still don't
think there's any chance to win. But even when he gets away from Seth,
I hope they don't just put him back into mid level obscurity. I
hope they continue to build on this whatever this is. This anime version,
this subtitle version of Shinsky is just awesome, and I hope that they don't
just shove him to the side and back to the you know, back of
the line. Pal, thanks for your contributions. I hope they do something
with this for Shinskay and it just doesn't go back to where he was.
Do you think that he could actually be a future world champion or do you
think you'll always just flirt with being like a like a maybe like a tweeter.
He would have to be consistently this good and intriguing for WWE management to
be more convinced. I think that they're looking at this as like, all
right, we caught lightning in a bottle here, but is this late lightning
sustainable? And if it is, down the line when sets run is a
little bit deeper and longer, and you could say, Okay, he's been
champion now for a while, which, by the way, it's been over
one hundred days, you know, which is short in comparison to Roman everything
is, but down the line maybe and if he doesn't, you know,
a year from now, if if Seth is still champion and Shinska is coming
back around here, sure, but not in the short term. I think
their their eyes was now set on Survivor Series and then Rumble and Mania.
They probably aren't going to do it unless things explode, so I doubt it.
The only other thing I want to touch on backlash wise, and then
we'll get to cempunk well actually quickly. I wanted to say I really liked
Rhea and Roquel, and I'm not a massive Raquel fan, but like,
maybe it was just the visual, but it felt like a legit fight,
did it not because of the stature both women. Maybe that's why. And
I gave it a less than less than positive review. I wasn't super down
on it, but it felt clunky at first. I mean, there were
a lot of weird missed botch spots that kind of took me out of the
moment, and that happens, but it felt like they just haven't got enough
minutes with each other in front of a live crowd, and things will improve
as they work more together. And so I wasn't as high on the match,
but maybe that's because, like you said, it didn't feel like a
polished wrestling match. It felt like power for power, which was the story.
But it felt, you know, again clunky, but also like a
real, more realistic fight. Yes, I would agree with that, and
I will say I wanted to give Miss some flowers because I think the Miss
is a guy that is actually really talented, and most of our gripes with
him is booking related. As opposed to his actual ability as a wrestler.
And I do think that he did a hell of a job with John Cena
and La night in that match. And I just think that that entire match
with John Cena adding to it kind of putting La Night over, was really
well done. But in classic, you know, current state fashion, I
have to take a few shots of Cody Rhodes. Is he the gem of
Raw? Did I miss something? Is Cody Rhodes now the general manager Monday
Night Raw? Yeah? He now is not only endorsing endorsing people, he
is now cashing in his political chips to make people get people traded to the
opposing brand. And how this really is supposed to improve his career, I
have no idea. It was just a move to endear him further to the
crowd, which is just ridiculous. I have completely, and really, thanks
to your shove, I have completely turned on his baby face character. I
gave it a shot, I gave it a try, and I have,
as I mentioned last time I payback review, I have jumped off the train.
I have tuck and rolled and I'm bruising battered. But I'm off.
I'm off. Why does he have to have his grubby paws and everything,
like, yes, he had that program with Brock Lesner. It was a
good program. Even though I hate Cody, it was a good program.
It paid off well. The match at SummerSlam was actually pretty good. Brock
does the cool putting him over thing all that great, but it feels like
he doesn't really have anything going on of his own, and he's just sticking
his grubby, greedy little uh Like he has to touch everything, he has
to be the spokesperson for everything. He has to be the one to give
his two sense on everything, and now he's making decisions for the brand and
even him like as him and like Jay usso like cross Paths. Before Jay
gets in the ring, we're just like, I hope we know what we're
doing, Like who's we? Who are you speaking on behalf of? Why
are you bringing him the Monday Night Raw? Why were you the one lobbying
for him? Like shouldn't of wwwe been like man like we like Jay's a
good asset, Like we can't let him leave, Like if he doesn't want
to go stay on SmackDown, We'll just go to Raw. Like remember when
ray Masterio asked Triple H to let him out of his contract last year because
he wanted to get away from Dominic and Triple H brought him into his office
and said, look, I'll just bring you over to SmackDown you know,
a lodgic cool thing. But no, now we have to have Cody Rhodes
be the guy who pulls strings. Why does it take pulling of strings to
get jausso on Monday night? Raw? Yeah? Like he shouldn't mean yet,
right. Management should be worried about this. Why does Cody have any
vested interest in this? There's nothing that would be advantageous for him other than
to endear him further to the crowd. That's it. Because Juso is super
over coming off of the program with his brother, which I'm actually glad they're
on separate brands. Hopefully it stays that way. I don't see. I'm
really not interested in Jimmy versus Jay right now, and we all need a
break from that story anyway. So it's good, it's I think it's a
it's the right move. But to put this put this award on Cody being
the reason that he came over is just it's it's nonsensical. Again, Why
is a wrestler cashing in his political chips to bring Jay over a guy that
he was just battling in the bloodline. It doesn't doesn't give him any kind
of advantage at any level. Really, Uh? And what what what political
stroke are we talking about with Triple H, Like, cashing in your political
chips for for what? And then you like you said management should be the
one Adam Pierce at least in stories, should be the one concerned about this
stuff. Why is Cody concerning himself with this stuff? And then of course
you get his stupid half ass smile talking to the Pittsburgh crowd and Grayson Waller,
thank god cut him off. No, no, he's like that.
Yeah, I'm like thank you, Like I'm just like yeah, and all
everyone bowed. I'm just like, no, no, no, no,
no, you just saved us all from his just self incessant need to mention
the name of a city to ask a question that can't be answered by a
large audience. I just I'm done. It just it makes no sense.
And it's just like, so what scares the living you know what out of
me, to be quite honest with you, is this is them slowly starting
to plant the seeds for Cody Roman two. Yep. If I'm being perfectly
honest, maybe that's why I pissed me off subconsciously to the extent that it
did, because I'm just like, oh my god, they're gonna do it
again. He's gonna win the Rumble again, and he's gonna challenge Roman again,
and then he's gonna win. Which is why I always hate the rematch
at WrestleMania, especially in a back to back fashion, because you know that
nine times out of ten, the guy is gonna you know, even the
odds. Now, obviously there's there's exceptions, specifically Sean versus Undertaker and Triple
H versus Undertaker, but I always just think back to Rock Sina, Like
you knew going into wrestle My twenty nine that Sina was being the Rock,
and I hate it when it's that obvious. But anyway, it's just I
don't know what they're trying to do with Cody, and again, look,
I understand that we are in the minority by a long shot, and everyone
has a raging heart on for this guy. Pardon my language. I don't
get it, but I've accepted it begrudgingly. But he is the most pompous,
self absorbed a hole I've ever seen on WW television who wasn't meant to
be that. I've seen pomp as a holes before I have. You know,
Randy Orton was kind of like that Triple H had a run like that,
like you kind of see it even with like Grayson Waller. But I
mean, I just I don't get why people love him so much. There's
a part of me that thinks WW is pushing him to the extent just to
dig a dagger into a w which we could get to as well. But
I don't get it, Like I don't understand it. I don't understand.
Again, this isn't me saying that I hate Cody Rhodes as a wrestler.
Like if he was just even in the same exact character but just like in
the upper mid card, I would I wouldn't care. I would be like,
he's not my cup of tea. But you know he's in the upper
mid card. He's not shoved down our throats. For everyone who Okay,
shots all over John Cena for a decade, I came close there, who
shot over John c over a decade? For being shoved down our throats?
Cody Rhodes is worse than John right now because he's also condensed into a much
shorter time frame. Like Cody, Rhodes came back, didn't lose a match,
came back after he was injured, number thirty wins the Rumble, nearly
won the main event of WrestleMania, and almost never loses matches. I know
he lost one to Brock, but he eventually won the program. So yeah,
he's he's essentially undefeated in programs. And you're right, he is this
pompous a hole that's it's masked and deodorized with smiles and suits, in bleach
blonde hair and catch phrases and sing along music. It can be masked.
But you and I and probably others out there are seeing through this crap.
And again, this is just a knocks. It's a massive knock on his
baby face character. But looking at all these things, we would be saying
the exact opposite and complimenting him if he were a heel. So I don't
know about I see no in my crystal ball looking forward in the next six
to twelve months, I see no possibility of them turning him. He'll do
you, oh, zero percent. And that's another thing that enrages me and
pisses off every bone in my body is that they are positioning him to be
the face of the company. That's what they want. And even just a
little thing as when they had the tribute to Bray Wyatt on SmackDown and Terry
Funk where he was standing right beside Triple Age, and it's like that is
where they view Cody Rhodes. They view him as the top baby face,
the guy, the ambassador, like to be honest in a lot of ways,
Like it feels like he's kind of becoming the successor to Roman Ratings already,
Like he's taking the place of Roman, and Roman is slowly taking the
place of Brock. Like that's kind of how this is going for me.
Like, and I just I don't know how old Cody Rhodes is. I
want to see he's probably in his late thirties. Yeah, so, I
mean I don't He doesn't strike me as a guy that you could build around,
Like how many more years could he possibly go at this level? And
he's a damn good wrestler. It's just yeah, I really like Cody Rhodes
as a wrestler. I think he's a good promo, even if I don't
like the content, like I stuff to give the guys flowers. He's a
really coveted asset. But it's just I don't like how they're forcing him to
be something he isn't like it is okay for him to be at like a
Drew McIntyre level or a shame Iss type of level. But I'll be honest
with you, like, I think that Drew McIntyre is a much more coveted
asset than Cody Rhodes is. In my opinion, I think him at Drew
McIntyre, had it not been for COVID, probably would have exploded as a
guy on tier with with uh like maybe not close to Roman reigns, or
maybe not Roman reigns, but maybe close to it. I just don't get
why they've like landed on this obsession where he has to be like this over
the top, holier than Thou above everyone saved for Roman type of guy.
I just don't think he's that. I think he made an astute point there
where he feels like he feels I'm paraphrasing what you said, but he's a
spokesperson for the company. He's an ambassador for the company. He's like he's
like a white version of Titus O'Neill, except he's actually wrestling regularly. Like
he feels like he's a spokesperson that cuts company approved promos but occasionally wrestles a
match. He doesn't feel like this, like this kind of organic pro wrestling,
pro wrestler that's super easy to relate to. He just feels like he
was cut from management, and you know, especially with his suits and everything
else, and he's so he's so just self aware when he's talking. It's
obnoxious. I'm actually, while I agree he's a good promo, the way
he cuts promos, this cadence, all of this stupid smile. I want
to see someone knock his teeth. I mean, I just I don't want
more to say about it other than I agree. I do think they're grooming
him to face Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, if, of course Dwayne isn't there.
I mean, Dwayne obviously trumps everything, but all right, well before
we get to see him, punk get any closing thoughts on Cody or Payback
in general. I would just I'm gonna leave Cody, But no, I
think that it did exactly what it had to do the pay per view.
That is, I think it advanced storylines. It advanced some wrestlers and La
Knight specifically, it told more of a story with seth Rons and his back.
I think that it did everything that you would have hoped it to do
in a perfect world. All right, well then we're going to transition to
see Him Punk the news of the day, which I mean we we got
notified a day or two ago about Tony Kahn releasing Phil Brooks see Him Punk
from aw for cause he announced it, and which was you know, bad
timing considering that they're all in event. Was in Chicago when he got fired
before the event, so quite an interesting timing. Obviously, this is not
part of a story. This is real. He got fired. We've heard
about the incident with Jack Perry and he confronted Phil Brooks Sampunk. He confronted
him and the two got into a scuffle. And you know, Jack Perry
also has been suspended indefinitely, so there is some fault not just on Sampunks
them, but of course on Jack Perry that you know, we obviously none
of us were there to see it. But there's always two sides to every
story, and you can't. As much as I don't like Sampunk behind the
scenes and things I've heard and things he's done on camera, I think Jack
Perry is still partially you know, even maybe majority of majority of ly responsible
for this. Either way, this is not good for Sampunk's resume. Doesn't
exactly his history doesn't help him. Everything he's done on camera with Tony Khan
what was a year or a year and a half ago or whatever it was.
And he's sitting there chewing down or shoving down at cheeseburger and acting like
a fool and embarrassing the company. Uh, And I look, I'm an
see him punk fan to the from the perspective of I respect what he's done.
I was excited when he returned, but not a good look as to
what he's done for the company. And he, you know, bad mouthed
the the company, saying I hate it here and all this stuff that you
just don't do, man, you just you just you don't do that because
guess what, it doesn't exactly look at make your employer future employers look at
you with envy and make them want you because they're gonna say, well,
they're gonna do the same thing to me, and so I'll stop there,
but I don't know what your thoughts on on the incident with the AW.
I'll preface this by saying that I think AW the way it's run is very
ash league. I think that, and I think Jim Cornette has said this
a bunch of times. It's run by a super fan who also happens to
be a billionaire or his dad's a billionaire, and it's like he's playing live
with his action figures now. And just the fact that Tony Khn is like
the the owner, CEO and GM like just has nobody else in a prominent
position kind of kind of like it kind of speaks to that. And I
guess you could point to like that was Vince McMahon for thirty odd years or
whatever, but like Vince also started as a ring announcer and grinded his way
to where he was, like Tony Kahn just pretty much had everything handed to
him. So I do think that there are a lot of problems in a
EW, and that it is it's kind of like the inmates run the asylum
there and it is just a glorified indie show for like a bunch of indie
friends to do there like to have fun with each other. At that same
time, you have veteran wrestlers like Daniel Bryan making it work there, Staying
making it work there, John Moxley making it work there. You know,
William Regal was making it work there. You have like a true superstar in
MJF making it work there. So even though there are a lot of inherent
problems with the company and a lot of house cleaning that Tony Khan needs to
do on his part, and I don't think that he really does a good
job of reigning stuff in there, just based on things I read about it
about the company, Like I don't watch AW It's not my cup of team.
I'm not a fan of the wrestling style. That doesn't make it bad,
it's just not for me. I think what CM punk has done to
his own image over the last twelve months is it's kind of tarnished his reputation
and it's kind of made people go back and reevaluate what happened in WWE,
you know, nine and a half years ago or whenever it was in early
twenty fourteen, and when you really think about it, like he wrestles in
the Royal Rumble and then just walks out. Like when you really break it
down, it's like, who the bleep does this guy think he is.
And that's not to say that everything in WWE is perfect, certainly not.
At that time, like early twenty fourteen was arguably like the peak of like
Vince just refusing to give the fans what they want, where you know,
he had a returning Batista when the Rumble and pressing down the Yes movement and
all that. And look, we've seen people be not happy with the company
and then when their contract expires they say, you know what, you know,
I want to do something else. We saw dang O Brian do it.
We saw Dana Ambrose do it. Cesarro walked away like it's not a
foreign concept, nor does it make you wrong for just, you know,
wanting something else. But the way CM punk kind of went about it in
terms of walking out the night of Monday Night Raw after the Royal Rumble,
you know, insulting Triple H on the way out, going on Cold Cabana's
podcast and ripping the company like he always kind of came off bitter. But
people were so infatuated with the twenty twelve version of cmpunk and the recency bias
that that's the punk they remembered and they just always sided with him. Not
to mention Vince mcmahn didn't really hold a lot of benefit of the debt with
the crowd or with the fan base. But after he pulled the stunt last
year where he was eating burgers or muffins or whatever, and he he was
just like, I'm old, I'm beat up. I worked with children.
And then he comes back and you know he's not in the best ring shape.
You see that he's losing it a bit, but he's still acting all
wholier than thou. You hear how he reacts to like and even if Jack
Perry said something that was offside, which it surely was the case as he
was suspended as well, and surely the elite did do some things bad on
their own part as well. He just doesn't handle himself as a professional.
He thinks his you know what, doesn't sting. He thinks he's better than
everyone. He always thinks he's right, and at this point, it's just
like, dude, you're just not as good as you think you are.
The reason why you everyone thought you were that good was because you had an
amazing twenty four months, twenty four month long stretch and then you walked away
and we never got to sell you again. And that was just the version
that people perpetually played over in their heads for the seven or eight years that
you weren't on wrestling television. And I just think that he has an inflated
ego. And because he disappeared for seven years, I know, I'm rambling
here, ping it up, he just grew himself into a bigger phenomenon than
he was. Actually, if you take away the pipe bomb in Vegas,
the infamous pipe bomb and that never happened, what is CM Punk's legacy.
I mean, like you, you look at what he's done in w W
E, and he lived off of that for a long time, and he
brought a lot of that into a w and the fans gave him a massive
poppy. It's one of the biggest pops I've ever heard in my life.
And you know what, I was excited too. It was a pop that
gives you chills because people never thought he would return to pro wrestling. He
finally does, but then he, you know, he went on a tirade
of you know, insulting the company and saying that basically he didn't wrestle,
you know, in w w E. He blanked that out of his career,
like he doesn't consider that pro wrestling and all that. He is kenned
WWE so many times publicly, so I don't see to answer the question that
ultimate everyone's asking and pondering, does he return to w w E. If
I was WWE, I understand the crowd would go crazy. Oh my god.
And I believe saira series is in Chicago, I think, I think,
and there's some that I've tweeted this out. There is a poster going
around, fan made but still of Roman Reigns versus CM Punk and oh my
god, imagine this, and it's if it's in Chicago. I understand the
allure of it. But honestly, I mean, I don't need seem punk
back. If they want to do a Hall of Fame for him, fine,
you know, somewhere down the line, but seampunk. If he came
back, if I'm Punk, I would feel like I'm betraying myself and everything
I've said over the last ten years. I would feel like I'm a sellout.
So he'd kind of have to swallow his pride a bit to go back.
If I'm wwe. I'm sitting there going okay. He just embarrassed the
company that's paying him hefty amounts of money to be there. He's not acting,
as you said, like a professional. He's embarrassing us. He is
cancerous in the locker room and even seth rollins. I don't know if you've
heard that interview recently over the last it was like six months or so,
where someone asked him, would you like to see Punk back? And he
said, no, Phil, stay where you are. You're a cancer.
He basically called Phil Brooks a cancer in the locker room and we don't want
you anywhere near here. And he was serious. You know, there's not
a whole lot of love back there for wanting Punk back. So you have
to understand that if your WWB two is okay, if you can get over
the fact that he embarrassed the company he's working for, do we want him
in the locker room? Is he going to be a cancer in the locker
room where he's proven to be in the company he just got fired by.
So it's you know, I understand that it may bring in money. Sure,
is it going to bring in a bunch of money? Probably it will
fans go crazy all of that, you know, but do you really what's
it worth? Is it worth causing drama a backstage? Is it worth potentially
having him embarrassed the company? And is it also a good look at all?
Is it a good optic to hire a guy that just got fired from
a company because he was he was acting like a non professional. So I
don't know your thoughts. I think WWE would do it just because what's best
for business. And I do think WWE and Vince Mcmahonmoir specifically has a it's
kind of like an ego thing for guys to come crawling back. And there's
always the ones who crawled back, like the nWo came back with Razor Diesel
and Hogan, Brett Hart came back, Warrior came back, Sam Martino comes
back like and cm punk would be a good get and I would watch it.
I want to see what it was. And I do think and you've
heard some now things like rumblings of well, remember when he was at Monday
Night Raw a few months ago, and people have said that, like,
you know, he was open to returning at the Rumble last year and wanted
out of his aw contract and maybe there's a part of cmpunk that after going
to a EW realize like man, you know, like the creative wasn't great
over there a law of the time. And you know, I think everyone
could agree that Vince McMahon has been detached from creative for probably over a decade
at this point, but in terms of what the fans want, but it's
not a bush league operation, and I think we could all agree even if
people don't like the creative direction of WWW, it has never been a bush
league operation, or hasn't been for well over two and a half decades.
So maybe for him, he just wanted to Maybe for him rather it just
took being on the other side of the fence and realizing that the green the
grass isn't always greener to want to go back to WWE. And I don't
think that you could ever make him like a main eventor nor do I think
he should be. Like you know, AW basically brought him in and made
him the face of that company, and it was only when he got suspended
last year that they kind of put MJF in that role and that was a
damn you know, blessing in disguise if you ask me. But they really
just kind of shoved CM punk right to the face of right to being the
face of that company. And I don't think WWE would be in that spot
at all. Like I don't even know like where you would rank seem Punk,
Like he wouldn't be ahead of Cody, he wouldn't be ahead of Roman,
he wouldn't be ahead of seth Rawlins. I mean even after that,
like you have some of the younger guys like Damian Priest, who obviously is
gonna get a major push soon. You see what La Knight is doing,
Austin Theory, Grace and Waller, they obviously have big plans ahead of them.
Like I think that you would probably have CM punk kind of fall into
that AJ style Shamus category. And if he was willing to take that,
and I don't know how he could be willing to ask for more after the
stunt he just pulled an aew If he wants to come back into professional wrestling
and he's willing to take that spot, I don't think it would be that
big of a deal. Because the other thing is is that even if he
did try to embarrass the company, WWE wouldn't promote him as the you know,
the overarching face of it, like he embarrassed the company first and foremost
because he did it sitting beside the owner Tony Kahn and Tony Khan, I
hate to say it, clearly doesn't have a strong backbone. He let him
disgrace the company while sitting right there. He's clearly pushed around by his talent.
I don't think, for instance, I don't think that you would ever
see se him punk cutting a press conference sitting beside Triple Ah, And you
could bet your damn dollar that he would never cut anything remotely close to that
with striple age sitting right there. So I don't think that there'd be a
major risk for WWE. I think it would just have to be understood,
like if you're coming back, you're coming back in like the mid card Max.
They Yeah, Look, that's probably the strongest case you could make for
him to return, is that w W you know you you act, you
act like a fool, You're gone, Like there's no you know, you
embarrass us, You're gone, no question to ask CEA and w W.
You're right. They actually have much more of a spine than Tony Kan.
Tony Khan comes off. I mean like Honestly, I don't know what he's
like in real life, but he comes off on camera, especially when he
has talent there, like he is, you know, just kind of this
little, this little shell of a man like he for all his money,
he certainly is you know, missing a set okay, like he's got all
the dollars but no no set. Like that's what it feels like with Tony
And you know, I just again, I don't know him personally obviously,
but that's the feeling I get. And uh with see him Punky. You
know the problem with that though, is if you put him in the mid
card, the fan is gonna be like, well, why him back at
all? Like if you're just gonna stick him in the mid card to fight
for an IC or US title, like, well, why even bring him
back? He's not gonna be a full time guy. He's a guy that
you would use as you know, kind of a main event guy for you
know, a pay per viewer two every six months, and you know he's
probably not gonna go on any major title runs, but it would be a
massive draw, buzz everywhere. Oh my god, sa him punks back in
WWE after ten years nearly so there's a lot of money to be had there.
But I don't know if fans. Fans would be like, oh cool,
he's back. He's gonna face Roman, He's gonna face Seth. Imagine
the promos and then they stick him with like ricochet, you know. I
mean, like I it's probably not what they do. If you're gonna go
and bring him back, that's a big move. You're not maximizing your dollars
there, You're kind of And if I were Punk too, I'd be like,
you're really you're gonna You're gonna put me here, you know, so
you're either doing it all in no pun intended or you're not. And I
would you know, while the promos between Roman and Punk would be a lot
of fun, given everything that he has said about Roman over the years,
and how not super negative, but how he was told make Roman look strong,
make Roman look good, all those things that management told him as Roman
was coming up in the ranks. You know he could bring that up,
and how he was one of the last few guys he worked with before he
left. There's a lot of fun to be had with with Punk back,
And don't get me wrong, And would I be very intrigued. If I
hear you know, cult to personality, Hell, yeah, I'm a wrestling
fan. I would be like, yeah, I'd be standing up going,
oh my god, what what is going to happen here? But do I
think it's a good business decision? W W is gonna have to decide that
and decide if the money that's going to come in is worth the risk of
a guy that is a proven liability. Yeah, it's I honestly, like,
I just don't know, because I don't even would you want to see
in main eventing shows? Would you, like, not regularly, like like
sparingly, he'd be on a very limited schedule. Yeah, So I mean
it's I don't know, Like I would like to see it just for like,
okay, he finally came back, and I would like to see a
humble version of himself, like the whole arrogant, you know, rebel thing,
Like I really it kind of for me, it always had a shelf
life, and I always thought he had way too much smoke blown up his
rear end. Then you know, we kind of spoke about like what is
CM punk aside from the Summer of Punk, Like even if we like go
back and recount his his He was champion for what eighteen months from mid twenty
eleven to early twenty thirteen. I believe like his room was good, but
it wasn't like the greatest w W championship run of all time. Like I
didn't think he was a like a you know, a knockout champion by any
sorts. Like I don't know, like it's he was good, He just
isn't what people made him out to be or what he thought he was in
his own mind. And I think given the depth of talent in WW right
now, if he came back, he would have to understand his place.
But maybe you know, going to AW really you know, made him understand
some stuff and for you Like obviously neither of us really watch AW, so
we can't speak to the actual wrestling product. But like, has this made
you look at the AW any worse than maybe before or any better? Like
has it changed your perception of the company at all? Well? No,
I mean other than just to see seeing Tony Kahn actually do what he needed
to do and probably should have done a long time ago. Although he did
still do it was good to see and he did announce that you know,
he did regrettable, regrettably have to fire Sam Pumpkin. Do I look at
a w an differently, No, kind of the same. I mean the
problem is when you have a guy that runs the company that feels like he
is not capable of coming down hard on guys when they need to be.
It's difficult to respect a company like that. Now it's not to say I
don't respect the wrestling. I don't respect the wrestlers, but the way the
company's run is difficult to respect. When it's you know, inmates run the
asylum and you have a guy at the top that is, as Jim Cornett
said, a superfan that doesn't seem to really you know, to lead with
an iron fist. It does lend itself to feel like everything's kind of chaotic
and it's whatever the political you know, agenda of the week is and who's
got the most stroke with the top guys. It feels very I'm imagining kind
of like an NWOSH scenario. And you know, in the late nineties when
Hogan and Nashal Hall were running things backstage and they were also the talent,
like, they had a ton of political and creative stroke and they got to
choose the guys and gals they worked with and all this, and so it
feels very much like that, and that obviously led in part to w CW's
collapse, so it kind of cannibalize their own product. It feels like a
little bit of that is happening here. Not to that extreme. I'm not
saying aw's gonna collapse, but they have certainly enough cash to keep themselves going.
But I just don't think it's conducive to a respectable way to lead a
company when the guy can't even you know, the head of the company can't
even you know, seemingly grow a set. I just feels that way.
But all right, well, I'll leave it there. But any any final
thoughts here we were going to wrap this up, guys, any final thoughts
on Punk or well, let me ask us ultimately, do you think CM
Punk's coming back to WWE. I think he shows up in what capacity.
I don't know, if it's a one off, if it's a three month
run, if it's a brock Leissner type of schedule, I'm not sure.
But I do think we will see CM Punk on WWE television sooner rather than
later, So before twenty twenty three. Is over. You're saying we will
see here or get hints of punk. I think, by the rumble,
we'll see cmpunk because I also think that, even though they don't like to
admit it, I think WWE likes any chance to stomp on a ew and
I think brillan cmpunk would be a major shot across the bow, especially if
they make it work, Because if they could make it work, even like
you said, on a part time schedule basis, I think that that would
go to show that like, yeah, this guy can be a bit of
a dick sometimes by my language, and a bit of a jerk, But
at the same time, we have a structured, professional company here, and
we could work around his issues, and we could utilize him as a valuable
commodity as opposed to the bush league operation run by the Mark with the billionaire
dad. And I think for WWE that would be a major victory, especially
given the fact what they've done with Cody. Yeah, i'd agree, I
think a few of the factors. So first of all, my answer is
I do think we'll probably see him back. I'm not heavily heavily leaning that
way. The thing is WWE doesn't need cm punk I think CM Punk needs
a WWE a little bit more than if it were the other way around.
And the reason I say that is I think Punk wants to be able to,
in his own mind, stick it to a w who he feels mistreated
him. And you know it's run by you can imagine what he's saying.
It's run by amateurs. It's very political. I mean, I know what
he's gonna probably say. So you're imagining Punk, knowing what he's like on
camera, probably you know, trying to damage the company that he just got
fired from. So I'm sure there's that impulse from Punk. But do I
think WWE needs him, No, they certainly don't need him. The company
will be just fine, and it's on the on the rise. I mean,
think about where we were just five years ago where we are now and
coming stars and all that. So, but I do think we'll see him.
I think we'll see him probably before WrestleMania or at WrestleMania or Rumble that
kind of thing. We're getting into that season now. And do I want
to see him go on a major title run though, No, I don't.
I just want to see him cut some fun promos, get the massive
crowd reactions and kind of have a very here and their schedule over the next
six to twelve months, call it a career, and you know, then
hang up the boots for good because the guy he's not meant to go multiple
times a week or a month for that matter. So no, I agree,
I mean, just like have like a proper fail farewell tour. Like
look, he finally came back. He had a non dysfunctional professional wrestling run
in you know, the twenty twenties. I don't know, it's just it
feels like as much as I don't think he's as big of a star as
he thought he was or as many fans thought he was, I do think
he should be remembered better than how it went aw And as much as I
do think that, you know, a lot of this lies at his own
feed, I do think that a big problem is how the operation is run
at AW. To be quite honest with you, Yeah, it's a very
country club feel. From what I understand. It's kind of you know it
is, and it might run the asylum sounds cool, it does, But
even if you're the talent there, you're thinking, oh wow, it's not
like, you know, a very hierarchical structure. It's kind of like you
can have your own feedback, but that comes with its own downsides. People
don't I mean, like you think it sounds fun, it sounds cool,
But the thing is then it's then it's kind of you know, controlled chaos,
and it's who knows who, And you know, it's not so much
what's best for the company, it's well, what I'm gonna get my stuff
in? Who am I going to work? It becomes very much a political,
self centered game. Uh. And that's certainly the case, no matter
even if you're in WWE. But it's more it's mitigated much more by having
a very hierarchical uh you know, just decision tree or or or rather a
workflow or what is I'm trying to say, But there's like you know,
executive CEO, VP of creative like all the way down the line. Then
you have a room of writers and that comes with its own downfalls too.
But you know, I think that it's not as good of a it's not
a conducive environment as much people many people would think in a W two further
in your career than it is in w w E. But anyway, all
right, well, final thoughts before we wrap. All I would say is
for listeners to look out for an announcement over the next coming days. There
you go, Yeah, I can confirm that. Guys. Oh, I'll
make an announcement tomorrow on my Monda and at Raw Review. I'll keep you
guys hooked. If that works, I'll let you guys know what's going on
tomorrow Night's It's a pretty pretty big deal, So I'll announce that tomorrow at
the top of my Monday and at Raw Review. Stay tuned for that.
But I just want to let you guys know Anthony will be doing a retro
this coming week, and I don't I don't know if you had a topic
in mind or if we'll kind of figure it out as the days go by.
Here, you know, I had a topic in mind, but obviously
with some stuff in the works behind the scenes, I think it's more of
a fluid situation as this week's retro maybe a much bigger and more significant retro
than ever before. So we still do have some things in the queue.
Maybe we will do Rocks Return with Eugene, but I think there's gonna be
a lot of moving parts in the coming days, and it will depend on
how things fall there you go, guys, A little teaser kind of feel
where we're going here, a bit of a teaser, but will be a
retro on Friday and it'll it'll be a big one and then we'll see after
that. As I said, well, we'll let you guys know what's going
on tomorrow on raws. I'll check that out. And do you want to
share social media? I know you as as hockey season gets a little a
little closer and a little closer, maybe you'll want to share that. Yeah,
so aid to mark a twenty five on two are obviously going to be
more active there as uh as the hockey season gets underway, and maybe after
this announcement may get more active there in terms of this podcast and all that.
So maybe looking to do some more interactive stuff as well. So yeah,
at a Marker twenty five on Twitter or X or whatever it's called right
now. I know we still call it Twitter. Sound calling it X just
sounds bizarre. So yeah, all right, yeah check him out on Twitter
and guys, say too for the announcement and we'll be talking again real soon.
Looking forward to it. Man, enjoy your night, you two.
Thanks for listening to the w w E podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on
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