Trainer vs Amateur: What Are Trainers REALLY Thinking? ft. Brian Henry

Crysta Brown: Hello everyone and welcome back to Horse Show Bestie. You have just Crysta your host here again. Scott is still super busy in working for a living land. So I'm holding down the fort and I'm really excited for today's episode because I brought on my friend Brian Henry. Brian is super special to me. He's given me some of my like first special opportunities on some really nice horses. And I think he Hello everyone, I am here with my friend and trainer, Brian Henry.

Brian: Hey Krista, thank you so much for having me on. It feels like a big honor and privilege. I've wanted to be a part of this for a while and I'm so excited you finally invited me.

Crysta Brown: ⁓ my god, stop. No, I mean, technically in some ways you were kind of the OG. I mean, I think we had the idea of like full-time trainer pod and then forgot the logistics of how busy horse trainers are. really has stayed connected to the roots of wanting to see the grassroots of this industry grow, investing back into some of our local youth kids and understanding that that's what keeps this industry going and feeds into some of these higher level clients. And so I love that about him and I love his perspective. ⁓ Before we get into it, I do just want to say, I think sometimes the trainer Ami debates can get really

Brian: No kidding, we talked about it for a long time, it just was not working. So here I am.

Crysta Brown: No, for sure. But yeah, ⁓ I'm excited to have you on for this topic though, because I feel like you are one of those people who's really good at balancing. ⁓ Like just say it like it is, but also you're not trying to be negative about the industry. Like you want to bring more positivity. ⁓ And really want like right now my special interest is like horse training as a business, right? And like what we can do to a) see our friends make more money, but

Brian: Haha

Crysta Brown: heated and I just want to speak to the intention. Like the intent of this episode isn't to bash on how challenging clients can be. The intent is to offer the perspective of what your trainer might be thinking or feeling but the nice thing is like it's not your horse trainer so none of it's personal and I did want to say like a lot of these kind of stories or memories that Brian and I are referring to like I don't want you thinking you need to like be like improve this side of the industry. So I have some questions that are kind of like the trainer amy debate. But before we get into those, can you give me your like bullet point biography of like, who are you? What are you doing in this world?

Brian: I'd love to. So I actually started horses when I was a little, little kid and I grew up doing 4-H and we didn't have a lot of money and I didn't have a trainer like most of my whole life. So I'm very much self-taught and I've worked for a few great trainers that have taught me a lot. We own Limelight Show Horses, A3-1 Ranch. We have trained over 400 world and reserve world titles, numerous all-arounds at the World Show.

Crysta Brown: go back through our history of everyone who's ever worked for us and like find out who might've been the one that did that story because I can promise you for every story we told of like a one-sided horse like this, one-sided client like this, there's three more just like it. Like it is not exclusive to anybody. So our intent is not to make anybody feel bad or ashamed. Our intent is just to share what it might feel like in. I think it's great to have Brian because he's more of that traditional horse trainer. Cause like, I'm just kind of a weirdo. You know, I've had my moments and touch points with having horses and kind of traditional full time training, but I live a very different life now. So I have a lot of empathy for our trainers and that's really my hope with today's episode. I hope you can maybe develop some insight and some empathy to, ⁓ what the other side feels like. If you are a trainer listening, I hope you get some ideas for maybe how to tackle some of these hard issues because

Brian: And our focus is really on the hunter under saddle now. We used to really do the all around, but we've kind of changed that a little bit. We have three studs and 20 broodmares. So that keeps us pretty busy on top of our regular training schedule.

Crysta Brown: That's genuinely so crazy. I like bread one and I was like, this is a lot for me. I can't imagine.

Brian: Well, that's, John was up all night following one out. He messaged me at midnight and he's like, hey, she's following him going out. So I watched on the camera and saw it be born and I was like, good night. I'm at a horse show, I gotta go.

Crysta Brown: At the end of the day, think so much of what our amateurs and youth parents want from the horse trainer is better communication. But as we go on to talk about it, it is so challenging to balance your communications on top of getting the horses ridden. so Brian and I really get into it and I can't wait for you guys to listen. Please remember to. Okay, but is it not like exhausting? I mean, does it ever happen where like one's following the night before, but you have like a group of clients coming for lessons the next morning, you're like, well, this is unfortunate. ⁓ gosh. Hey guys, a quick word from our sponsors.

Brian: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's just part of it though. Like they foal when they foal So we just have to go with it. A couple of weeks ago, our property's for sale and we had a showing and we had a foal born in the middle of the night right before we had the showing at our place the next day. you know, that's just part of it.

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Crysta Brown: like and share this episode on your social so that really helps us grow. And if you haven't already, please leave a review on your podcast platform. Yeah. Of course. Okay, so kind of starting to jump into it. Like, your business is kind of structured as a traditional full-time training program. Yeah, like, do you have a lot of lesson clients or most of your clients like going down the road show clients?

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Brian: Yeah, so we really are just full-time training. We people ask about board and stuff like that. And I will do some lessons, but it's really hard because I travel so much. So it's hard for me to get on a good schedule to where it's actually beneficial. So John and I do a lot of clinics and we do a lot of free clinics for the kids, especially because that's something we can control our time a little bit better and give back to a lot of people at once. So really we're mostly just full-time training.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm.

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Crysta Brown: Yeah. Now back to the episode. Okay, ⁓ ⁓ you're doing a lot of great volunteer work with your local 4-H and FFA. Can you speak to ⁓ what you're doing and how did you getting with

Brian: Yeah, so like I said earlier, I grew up doing 4-H and my family didn't have a lot of money and couldn't find help for me. So when we moved to Western Colorado where we live now, we put on a clinic and it was just on trail and horsemanship and we sold spots for people to participate and it sold out right away. And I was like, there is a huge demand in this community, but we had a lot of people come watch because they couldn't afford to participate. So John and I have structured a clinic program that is free.

Crysta Brown: No.

Brian: for youth, but they have to be in 4-H or FFA. we, a couple of years ago, the clinic that we did was literally like, this is how you do a bun. This is how you band. This is how you put your number on. This is how your tack should fit. This is how you hang a fake tail. Like we started at the basic basics and we kind of tricked them too. I had one of my clients come out in full show clothes that were like stunning, but they didn't fit at all. And then I had another one come out in jeans and a fitted shirt. And I was like, which one is better?

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brian: You know, a lot of them thought the pretty clothes were better, but really it was the fit that we were going for. ⁓ So now we do that a lot and we actually have started traveling quite a bit, donating our time with those clinics. And then ⁓ every year our local FFA has us bring in horses to practice horse judging as well. And as busy as our schedule is, yeah, it's super cool. ⁓ As busy as our schedule is, we make time and I challenge every trainer out there to make time. Do it once a year in your community.

Crysta Brown: Of course, yeah. ⁓ that's awesome.

Brian: and give back, it's one day and it feels so good. Like the feel good part of it is priceless for sure.

Crysta Brown: ⁓ No, I love that so much because, you know, there is a really hard balance where it's like, it's so amazing when a trainer can donate their time for something like that. But at the same time, it's like, how can we ask these trainers that have so much on their plate to donate their time? It's like, you know, and so I love that you prioritize that and you're thinking local, like how can you invest back in the local community? Because those are our future horsemen. So no, I love it.

Brian: Exactly, exactly. I agree with that part. And that's why we think it's so important is we see this lack of youth at the breed shows and grassroots is where it's at. They're out there, they're doing it. They just need the resources.

Crysta Brown: How do they get to the higher level? Will they have to start somewhere? But yeah, no. And I think too, I don't know what it's like in Colorado, but certainly in California, you know, when I was a kid, you know, maybe between let's say five to 15, there were lesson programs all over our hometown, like probably three to four within our same hometown. And now I can, I think all but one of them has like gone away. And so it's like, there's no places to kind of go get your start in a Western saddle. I do think maybe the English program still have a better riding school system, but how does somebody like I was a lesson kid, you know, like that's how I kind of got into this. And if those have all died, like how do we on-ramp people? But I think clinics, you're right, is like a great way for us to give our time, but not be committed to the consistent rollover because it can be hard.

Brian: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Crysta Brown: so jumping into ⁓ kind of trainer client experience. ⁓ I've been seeing online a lot and I'm really curious your thoughts on is like the practice debate. And I think there's kind of two sides to the coin because it's the, I think there can be times where I'm saying to someone like, no, you need to come practice. And then there's other times where, that can be frustrating because they're like, I have other commitments. have these other things. And I think there's this other side of the coin where I'm like, no, no, like, I need you to give me time on this horse. And that can equally be frustrating when you're the one paying the bill and you're like, I don't understand. Why can't I ride the horse? What do you have you experienced that? What are your kind of general thoughts?

Brian: Oh my gosh, that's two topics in one for sure. definitely we'll start where you started with, you need to come practice. Where we live, we're kind of remote, so it is harder for our clients to get to us. But our rule of thumb is like, if you could come to the barn and ride at least once a month, and then we go to a horse show once a month, then at least it's twice a month that you're getting some time in no matter how far away you live. And I can only train so much.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Brian: and then I need you to get on and learn and be able to do it because I can't show the horse for you, you got to be able to have some skills. On the other side, there is that time where I'm like, I know you're excited and I'm excited for you, but you have to give me time. And especially when I get a new horse in training, A, most of the time they're not fit. That doesn't happen overnight. So then when you come to your lesson and you go, oh my gosh, it won't hold itself together. Yeah, it's not strong enough. You gave me 10 minutes to get it fit for you.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Brian: And that takes time. That's 60, 90 days. Like, are you ready to go run a marathon right after Christmas dinner? Probably not. So let's get them fit. Let's get them tuned up to where I understand what they're doing also, so I can actually help you. Because if I don't feel the problem, I can't talk you through that problem either.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think I've had moments though where you've got kind of green horse and green rider. And to me, that can be like one of the trickiest situations because it's like you as a rider aren't maybe as well versed in my program or like as high skill level to where you're not going to teach him a bad habit. And it can become a thing where, ⁓ you know, let's call your horse Sam, right? Old Sam has this habit of,

Brian: you

Crysta Brown: turning towards the middle of the arena, let's say. And if I could have 30 to 60 days to myself, I could probably train that behavior to extinction where he forgets it's even an option. But if instead I'm sharing him with the person that he learned that behavior with through the whole time, it's like, it's like every time I get two steps forward, we take one step back. And instead of this being a problem we could have fixed in 30 to 60 days, it's now six months.

Brian: You

Crysta Brown: And I feel like, how can you explain that to your client without hurting their feelings? Because how do I say, you're just not high skill enough?

Brian: Yeah. I mean, to me, something that I try to explain is like, you chose me because I am a professional. So you have to trust my opinion. And as hard as that is, and it's really hard to be patient in that process, it's what's necessary for your success. And I wanted to say earlier when you like, you say it how it is. I always warn people before they even come to our program, I am honest to a fault. I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I probably will.

Crysta Brown: Yeah.

Brian: but I don't want to waste your time or my time and especially your money. We've had horses in training and I don't want my money wasted. When we've got horses in training, I do exactly what that trainer asked me to do. And I feel like it makes me a really good client because I've been on the other side. So ⁓ on the other side of that, what we do a lot of times in that situation, if someone is just like, they're so excited to be a part of the program and maybe they need to learn a couple more skills is we'll put them on a different horse.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: So no, you cannot have a lesson on your horse, but yes, you can come ride another one. And that's part of our program. Like we've had people in the past that say, I don't want anyone else riding my horse. Well, then this program's not for you because we think it's really important to learn to ride a lot of different horses. We'll be in the middle of a group lesson and we'll say, everyone line up in the middle. Musical horses, you switch. You don't get your own horse. And we make our own clients rotate in the middle of a lesson so that

Crysta Brown: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: I feel like that helps fill that gap a little bit when you're excited and you want to be on your horse, but you really shouldn't be. Here's one that you can ride and learn our program too while we're teaching your horse our program.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think there's, I'm like trying to imagine the devil's advocate side, right? Like what would I be feeling as the amateur when someone's telling me like, you need to give me time. And I think a lot of times a trust issue comes up where it can be a little bit like, yeah, but I need to see my horse and know that you're not scamming me and know, because there are a lot of people, unfortunately, there are a lot of people in our industry who've been burned. And so then it's like, I feel like something I would love to hear you maybe speak to is like that line of, and even for myself, like sometimes I struggle with like, I want you to have permission to feel like you can come see your horse. But also if you coming to see your horse means you want to come sit by the arena for an hour and chit chat with me, that now slows down my day to where I can't get through everything I need to do. And I think it can be a really fine line.

Brian: that's our biggest struggle. This is our client's hobbies and this is what they enjoy and it's supposed to be fun, but at the end of the day it is my job and although I have to find that balance.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm.

Brian: know of your hobby, my job, I still have a lot of other horses I have to ride. And like we always say, we're full service. We're not just a horse training business. I'm organizing the farrier, the vet, the supplements. I have the nutritionists come in and we are juggling so many other things than just that ride on your horse. So being respectful of our time is something that I think is really important. And I'm not saying you can't come hang out. Like I love having people hang out at the barn, but if you want to just talk the whole time,

Crysta Brown: Right. bright.

Brian: I'm gonna probably say you need to ride another horse and we can ride together and talk at the same time, because I have to keep going all day, because I too have a family that I wanna get to at the end of the day. Like, I don't wanna be eating a protein bar for dinner at nine o'clock at night and still be in the barn.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. You know what this makes me think about though? Okay, similar vibe. I have had, God bless, like some really, really lovely people that were maybe even new to putting a horse in training. Like that was the first time they'd trusted somebody with their horse kind of a thing. And they would call like literally every night for kind of an update of how the horse was that day. And I was, you know. younger baby or trainer a little bit dumber but it was really hard for me to set a boundary of like I don't want you to feel like I don't care about you and I'm ignoring your call but at the same time if I spend an hour talking to you at night and I probably spent especially because it was like green horse the half time an hour and a half to two hours on it earlier that's three hours of my day towards your horse and like we can look at what you paid for the training that month like that does not calculate out to minimum wage

Brian: Yeah. Poor Krista, you made $2 an hour that day.

Crysta Brown: literally, ⁓ probably was that bad. ⁓ But I think it's hard.

Brian: Literally, yeah, yeah. I will say that's one of my biggest ⁓ what's helped me have boundaries was when we adopted Jesse, was because ⁓ was ⁓ to the barn. mean, ⁓ and mostly the barn. ⁓ I had no boundaries. I was like, ⁓ you want to ride at eight o'clock at night because that works for you? Cool. You want to ride on Saturday and Sunday because that works for you? Okay, I don't need a day off. ⁓ that burnout is real.

Crysta Brown: Hmm.

Brian: and it does creep in there and then you get resentful and that's not healthy. And when we had a kid, we finally were like, okay, Sundays are a day off and that means we won't speak to you. You can text me, you can call me, you can email me. I will not respond to you. I will look at my phone and I will wait to respond until Monday morning at 8 a.m. because I also think you have to respect my business hours a little bit and I will never do business before 8 a.m. unless we're at a horse show.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Brian: And in the evenings, that's kind of that 7 p.m., 8 p.m. I think it's disrespectful at that point. I have a family, I have a husband. I also just need time off. You know, our work is very labor intensive physically and emotionally, and we have to that balance. And it is hard to say that, like, hey, while I respect your need to communicate, I also have other things going on. And going back to like the updates, I think that that's really hard too. I always like to say, no news is good news.

Crysta Brown: for sure.

Brian: If I'm, you know, if there's a hiccup, I'm going to definitely let you know. But, um, I mean, I've had a client that bought a baby from us and hadn't training with us for two years and never saw the horse. And we would do monthly updates and be like, Hey, this is what your horse is up to. Hey, we want to go to a horse show, whatever. And that worked really well. And she was very happy client for all of the time that she was with us. And, and I just think it is important in the beginning. And I, so that's part of when you're a new client and you come to me, I say,

Crysta Brown: You

Brian: this is how my program works. Like these are the days we ride, these are lesson days, and these are my hours that I'll be available to talk to you. And please don't contact me on my time off. And we have also found a balance of saying, also I'm gonna take this Saturday off, I need a weekend.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. There's so many like nuggets of glorious wisdom in there because I do think some of it is on us, right? Like we have to set the boundary and teach people how to respect us. And you know, that doesn't mean it's like your fault that you're burnt out. But at the same time, it's like, I can take the responsibility of like, what's mine to carry. I have to be the one to say. And I think set the expectations. So what I heard there too,

Brian: Mm-hmm.

Crysta Brown: is you're setting the expectation from the get-go. This is what my program is. This is how it works here. Can you give me any more detail on that? A, for our trainer friends listening who might go, I need to do that. And B, for clients that are maybe going like, ⁓ my gosh, I wish I had the playbook of how to be in the program from day one.

Brian: So this didn't happen at the beginning of the business. This happened from necessity. And we're very flexible. We try to be. But our lesson schedule is Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Those are the only days of the week that we'll do lessons. And we've had people that have had actual meltdowns crying because that doesn't work for their schedule. While I respect that, I work six days a week and I'm offering three of those days to you that I'm available at any time. So if that's not gonna work, maybe a different program would be better. And I have gotten better about saying that too, like, hey, I love you, but I just don't think that this program is the match for you. And I'd be more than happy to give you some references of people. ⁓ But it came from a little bit of burnout that I decided, we need to have real boundaries. And I decided again, the easiest way to do that is when you're a new client, I'm just upfront about it. And then another thing that we do in our barn is we have a Facebook group message that we change every month for all the clients in the barn. And I'll do reminders. I'll be like, hey guys, just a reminder. I had six calls on Sunday and remember that's my only day off. So please wait until Monday. And that includes like, hey, I don't want to forget to tell you this. So I'm going to go ahead and text you on a Sunday so I don't forget. Set an alarm, set a reminder. I don't care what you have to do, but please let us have a day off. Just one. Please.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're really smart because, I kind of put out a Facebook question to people. Like, what do you guys want to ask trainers? Like, you know, a trainer that's not yours. So it's not personal. It's not offensive. What do you want to know? And, um, I did have someone who kind of reached out and she was like, I just wish there was more clarity, like more of a comment than a question. But she was like, I want.

Brian: Yes. Yes.

Crysta Brown: to help my trainer do their job to the best of their ability, but sometimes I don't know what the expectation is. And I was like, you know, that's a good point. Like that's something for us to keep in mind and consider. And I think it's like, I don't know, maybe just to like bring into our listeners mind, like, can you give me what an average day looks like for you? Not to put you on the spot, but like, I think people need to understand like how busy the day gets.

Brian: First, I want to go back to what you said. Totally, I want open communication because I'm only successful if you're successful. So we need to be able to have that open dialogue and I want to be approachable. ⁓ And there are times that I think everybody knows what the long veteran clients know. So it's okay to ask me, be like, hey, you might have already covered this, but I missed it. I want you to ask, you're better off that way. So our day ⁓ depends on the weather where we live.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm.

Brian: in the winter we can be really cold so then my mornings are slower and then my afternoons and evenings are longer versus like right now where it's warm in the morning so I want to get outside and get my stuff done as quick as I can. So ⁓ it really depends on how busy our day is because we breed also so like Monday, Wednesday, Friday breeding is crazy so on those days we start even earlier so like literally the first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is check my notifications because there's always something sitting there that I need to attend to.

Crysta Brown: right. bright.

Brian: and then get up and get ready for the day. And I usually do breakfast on the go to the barn and we fill out the ride board for what's gonna happen that day. Is there a lesson? Is that farrier coming? Who's riding what horse and what order? And then go straight to work. And ⁓ that Monday, Wednesday, Friday, that might also mean we're starting that morning out by checking mares ⁓ we start riding to know if we need semen so that we can then get them bread ⁓ so that our schedule is ever changing. ⁓ Largely when I go, and I live on the property, I mean, I literally am like less than 100 yards from the barn door from my house. And when I go out, I take my bottle of water and a protein bar that I'm gonna have for lunch that day because A, I usually don't have time to go in the house. And if I do, then I'm distracted again by all of these emails and text messages and things that I need to respond to. On that note, I am a text message person and I tell all my clients that like, if you call me, I will watch the phone ring. Because if I call you,

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sorry.

Brian: It's an emergency. It's true, I say it. So I have your horse. So I'm the only one that will have an emergency. You probably don't have an emergency that you need to call me for. So if you could shoot me a text message, I can respond when I'm walking back and forth from the barn with another horse quickly and easily. And if it is something that's really important, say, hey, can we schedule a time to talk on the phone this evening when you're done riding? Because the other option is, sure, I'll take your hour long phone call. That's going to count as your horse's ride for the day.

Crysta Brown: That's so funny. Yeah.

Brian: because I don't have those two, three, four hours that we discussed earlier. message, call. ⁓ So anyway, so ⁓ day literally through the barn is getting all the horses worked. And then that usually takes us to six or 7 p.m. And again, we own our own facility. So I have to drag the arena, water the arena and do all of those things that go into it, ⁓ well as setting a trail course and all of that part of it as well. So.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian: ⁓ And in that time, I'm talking to the feed company to order grain and talking to my hay guy, trying to make sure I have hay, ordering shavings, talking to our employees about everything that breaks. Every single day, something breaks. You know, there's a lot we're juggling in between. So, and let's be real, most...

Crysta Brown: Right. I Right. Well, and even managing your employees, like, God forbid you have to have a conversation with them.

Brian: Right, which is another whole topic of balance and because we really rely on them for a lot, a lot, a lot. So keeping them happy and not feeling burnt out is really important too.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. No, ⁓ really appreciate you ⁓ that out because I think it can be easy to ⁓ horse training as literally just trainer goes out, they ride their row of horses, and that's it. ⁓ it's like, ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ we want to be excellent at these client communications and all of these different things. But in reality, for us to ⁓ ⁓

Brian: I wish.

Crysta Brown: to the point where you have time to be excellent at all of those client communications and you have time for an hour update phone call with them once a week. And maybe you also do their entries for the horse show and all these different like extra things that some trainers do and do a great job at. But like if you've got a barn of, I don't know, 15 or more, how? Like you don't, you just simply don't have time on top of all of the other things. okay, so another thing that.

Brian: Right. ⁓

Crysta Brown: I personally wanted to talk about because I kind of have the privilege of like I do a lot of my video call lessons, right? And so I get to see a lot of different amateurs with their horses. Some are completely DIY. Some keep a horse in training and they want lessons with me on their home horse. Like I see so many different situations, but I see a lot of really talented amateurs get stuck with a horse that is like just a little too green for them too early. And I feel like it then stifles what their riding career could be. So can you just talk me through like, okay, client comes to you, maybe they're pretty handy rider, but they've got dreams of world show. How do you kind of start to plan in your head? Like, let's pretend they're more than happy to sell the horse they have. He's whatever, like the horse they have now is irrelevant, but they just come to you and they go, this is who I am now. How do I get from A to B? What does that track look like for you? And we'll see if we agree or disagree. We probably agree.

Brian: We agree on most things. I have been down this road more times than I can count. We used to be a youth barn. We hauled mostly youth kids and a lot of times that conversation with the parent was, okay, so your kid has the talent to go to the world show and I would love to get them a horse that can do that. It's going to cost this much money, whatever that amount is at the time and

Crysta Brown: I know. ⁓

Brian: It's not going to be sound. It is going to be a horse that has to go to the vet and get a lot of maintenance, but it is broke and it is going to teach your kid more than you can ever imagine. So what you're paying for in that 30, 40, $50,000 horse is the invaluable lessons of how to be a showman, how to be a horseman. So then we can maybe sell that horse, but I've bought horses for families and I said, you're going to spend $35,000 on this horse and you're going to lose money.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Brian: I promise it, it's not, this is not an investment in the horse, it's an investment in your kid. And for an amateur, it's the same thing. It's an investment in yourself. So again, you hired me because you like my program, you respect me, you like my opinion, trust my opinion. I, this is my job is to help you be successful. So I'm in that beginning stage like that. I'm probably going to go look for that, been there, done that, super finished horse. Then we can go to a horse show and we can work on you as the rider.

Crysta Brown: Okay. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Brian: and getting better and better and better. And then when we go and have a lot of success on that horse, we find another home for him. And we try to find you that step up horse. And I think what a lot of people don't realize too is when you get that step up horse, most of them are harder to ride. Those really, really nice horses that are out there that you see winning at the world show that look like they're push button, hate that term by the way. It absolutely drives me crazy. Nothing's push button. They're not machines. They're really hard to ride. You just don't know that because the rider is skilled enough to hide it.

Crysta Brown: Yes. Yeah.

Brian: But they're skilled enough to hide it because they rode the broke one first.

Crysta Brown: for sure. But also, in fairness, let's just speak really quickly to this push button idea. If I've gotten the cockpit of an airplane, it's literally just pushing buttons, but do you think I know what buttons to push and when? I have no idea how to get that thing off the ground.

Brian: Yeah. way. We're not getting off the ground if I'm doing it. I literally leading up to the podcast. I'm like, walk me through this. What buttons do I need to push for your podcast? I'm not flying an airplane. Come on.

Crysta Brown: No chance. Yeah, right. Right, exactly. So I think it's like, I do think there's a misunderstanding that you can easily think when you're on that kind of immature budget horse that like, ⁓ if I just had that horse, I would be winning the world. And then it takes the humility of getting on some of those horses that are capable and going, ⁓ no, there's a lot to this. it's...

Brian: And it's the same thing. ⁓ yeah, yeah.

Crysta Brown: coming in with the feel and the timing and all of this, that, and the other. And the reason it looks so effortless is because those riders are doing a phenomenal job. I really think that's just so, so true. But to speak to the older horse, like, yes, I think, I mean, I think social media is like such a blessing and a curse, right? But I really think that

Brian: Yep, I agree. Yeah. Yeah.

Crysta Brown: the person trying to learn getting on the internet going like, what do I need when I buy my first horse? It's like, they get so obsessed with perfectly clean X-rays and like, maybe they like spent a lot of money on their last horse. They're really scared of having maintenance and all these different things. And it's just like, if you, you need the packer who's been there, done that, and is going to get you to where you need to be. And how can he get there without maintenance? Like to me, if a horse is like,

Brian: ⁓ gosh.

Crysta Brown: I mean perfect like they're like I don't see a thing on this horse It's probably because it hasn't done much yet and that scares me Like I'm just like that's it's probably a yearling that's standing in the pasture I don't trust it like there's no way if they are doing these high-skilled jobs I don't care if it's jumping dressage pleasure They are going to have just like any athlete you're gonna have some things that maybe aren't working as well as they did before but if they can be maintained and

Brian: Get another vet check that doesn't exist. Exactly.

Crysta Brown: the person who was showing the horse before was able to maintain and continue to show, I'm in.

Brian: Yes, yes, yes. So can we run with this for a minute on the maintenance side because this is one of my biggest things. We, again, horse trainer is the title, but there's so much more that goes into it. And the maintenance side of keeping your horse comfortable is one of my personal biggest and most important tasks that I go through. It's really important to have a great farrier.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. ⁓ my God, yes. Yes.

Brian: And if you're not sure what a great farrier looks like, look at other horses feet and think, wow, my horse's feet don't look like those horses feet. Is that a good or bad thing? Or ask people because the farrier is the base. That's where it's going to start, right? Then we're going up their body and the maintenance side is crucial. I have a wonderful vet. go to South Valley Equine in Utah. It's a four and a half hour drive, one way for me. And they, my vet, Dr. Beck does nothing but soundness. All day long, he only looks at horses that limp.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian: Or in my case, they don't limp, but I want them to move this much better than they're moving right now. Eek, they're professional athletes. If you think that these football players and baseball players aren't going and getting injections and maintenance, you're a fool because they are. And these horses are professional athletes also, and they need that care. I realize it's expensive. I mentioned earlier how many horses we own. That's just broodmares. We have a lot of our own riding horses that I have to take to the vet to maintain as well. And the expense is real.

Crysta Brown: Just ⁓ hair of a percentage. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Brian: I get it, but maybe that means you miss a horse show in March so that your horse can go to the vet and get a full workup of injections in March so then you can go to show in April and have a better success. A lot of time, behavioral things that I see in horses are often pain related and are so simply fixed by simply getting an injection. And back to those x-rays, I don't believe in clean x-rays, they don't exist. And if you do vet check a horse that has perfect x-rays, don't buy it. get a second opinion from another vet, I guarantee there's something there. They don't exist. They're not there at all.

Crysta Brown: Yeah, right. ⁓ my gosh, and can we even just speak to you for a second, as someone who's sold horses, the amount of times, like maybe I have somebody bring a vet out, they vet check the horse, then they pass, and then somebody else brings a different vet out, and I hear a completely different opinion on the exact same horse, exact same X-rays, like they are taking shots of the same thing, sometimes within days of each other, and you hear something wildly different. And that doesn't mean that vet checks aren't worth it. Like, I'm just saying,

Brian: Yeah.

Crysta Brown: I think it's worth understanding that a lot, think, depends on the vet's background. Are they doing a lot of performance horses? Are they a lameness vet in particular? I think when you're assessing a horse for performance, you know, versus if they're kind of a local farm vet who's like dealing with emergencies a lot, like there's different skills, right? So I've seen that so many times.

Brian: 100%. I train, you know, like stock all around horses. I wouldn't know the first thing about going and training a racehorse. And I think the vets should be in that same category, right? Like you have to specialize in one thing that you're really good at. And most of the time in these small towns, like where I live, we don't have that specialty, but, and that's okay. I will drive to one.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I actually wanted to speak to the why for a second, because I feel like I want people to understand why we're saying this is so important. Because there's two pieces. Be willing to buy the horse with maintenance. But also, when I'm saying that there is something going on, maybe the vet is saying it's really mild. But when I'm saying I am consistently running into the same issue with the horse, it's not because I just want you to spend money or I'm lazy or something. It is because I have tried to get around the same problem six, seven, 20 different ways. And I keep running into, I just don't feel it driving up on the left hind. And I know we're gonna trot it on the line and they're gonna say it's like a one out of five, but I promise you, I think I could get a lead change on this horse if she feels 100%. And it's just like, I don't feel like it's fair for me to do my job. if the brakes on the car aren't working. Like you've got to be able to work with something capable.

Brian: Totally. And that's funny story. I have a younger horse and we have struggled with this horse's right lead for a while. It's just inconsistent in it. And when she does pick it up correctly, she just doesn't move the same. And it was a conversation with the owner. ⁓ It was a younger horse. actually, ⁓ we didn't do a pre-purchase on this horse. But, and going back to the pre-purchase, for me, a pre-purchase is to find out what is there so I know how to maintain it, not what is there so I don't buy the horse.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm.

Brian: It's just simply so I know what I need to maintain and if I believe that's something I can maintain where I live. So anyways, I take this horse to the vet a week ago, two weeks ago, and I told my vet, said, this is what I'm experiencing, moves great on the lunge line, you're about to see that. Probably flex a little bit mild, but I'm telling you this right leg thing is real. Shoot one x-ray and there's an itty bitty tiny little spur in that hawk. Cool, let's inject those hocks and see what happens. Fast forward a week after injections, night and day difference.

Crysta Brown: Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm.

Brian: both directions. The left lead improved greatly and the right lead so much easier. And this mare is so much happier. Like I could have seen that with lack of knowledge as this mare is a witch and she's not cooperative and she's bad this direction, blah, blah, blah. No, no. And a lot of times it is that work that needs to be there. And I always go to the horse first. I do not blame the horse for it having a problem. It's my job to figure out what that problem is. And a lot of times it's maintenance related.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and you know what? This just makes me think about realistic expectations in general, if we're being honest, because just like what we're talking about, we have to have realistic expectations of the horse in how their body feels. If his hocks don't feel 100%, how am I going to get him kicking up and driving through? mean, sometimes horses come and their feet are long. They've just not been maintained. And it's like, We need to set this up for a safe situation because I don't need to be getting up on top of something's back if he's not gonna feel okay once he gets moving out. That's not safe for either one of us. We have to be realistic with what's given to us and I think the vet work is an important piece of that. On the other hand, sometimes somebody brings like...

Brian: Mm-hmm. you

Crysta Brown: their dad's old rope horse and they're like, I would like to win senior trail at the world show, Brian. And it's like, I love that. And I love the ambition, but I'm not sure that's in this one's wheelhouse.

Brian: This is such a tough conversation, I think, because I love that you went as far as dad's old roped horse, but a lot of times it's the horse that's already in training that is bred. We raise a of our own horses, so I have a lot of full siblings in my barn. And we have a full sibling that is like the greatest Excels at hunter and her saddle horse versus one that's more of an all around horse. And because they're bred the same doesn't mean they're going to do the exact same thing.

Crysta Brown: You Mm-hmm.

Brian: or whatever, also your expectation of it doesn't mean it's gonna be successful. And you have to rely on me, you have to trust me when I say, hey, I realize this is what your goal is with this horse or this is how this horse is bred. It's not well suited for that. So let's find another discipline where this horse can be successful. Maybe this horse isn't going to be able to do the all around events. It should probably do the ranch events. Or maybe this horse is really great in the division you're showing in right now. This is the perfect novice amateur.

Crysta Brown: Absolutely. Yeah.

Brian: level one novice youth horse, but it's not an open horse. You're gonna go win and have a lot of success in your division. I may not have that success in my division because we've capped out your horse's capability and that's okay. We need all those levels of horses like we talked about earlier. And if you want that open horse, you need to communicate that with your trainer and say, hey, I want an open horse and your trainer is gonna go, awesome. How much money do you have saved? Because likely.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yes. Let's go buy it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right.

Brian: We're six figures. And that's the reality of it right now is it's not, I mean, this is a very expensive hobby. And with that, again, find yourself a trainer that you can trust to have those conversations with because I don't want to waste your time or money with unrealistic goals. And if that is your goal, let me push you in that direction that I think you'll be successful because that is my job is to see you be successful. And then I'm successful.

Crysta Brown: I was gonna say, like, we're not saying these things because we're like Debbie Downers and want to ruin your day. Like trainers are saying these things to you because they want to see you succeed. And I've actually had conversations with a lot of folks, like being on my calls or people I've worked with where I'm like, well, is your journey about loving this horse so much? So we should just follow what this horse is gonna be good at? Or is your journey, right, or is your journey about

Brian: ⁓ my gosh, I love how you said that.

Crysta Brown: you want to hit these certain targets and so we can be flexible on this horse or not. Because it's like, I think you need to be willing to give one way or the other, if that makes sense.

Brian: Yes, and on that note, we're talking about horses right now, I wanna talk about other parts of it. Your show clothes, okay? When I come to you and I say, love your outfit, don't love it for you, don't love it for the event, whatever it is, don't take that personal. I again want you to be successful, and part of my job is to know the look for that event. Fit is a big part of that. And knowing your body type, everybody's built different, and that's okay. But the way that these show clothes designers are making clothes,

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Brian: They're putting in these lines that will give you better shape that you may not have. And again, the fit is super important. And I'm going to take that to tack. A lot of times I will say, hey, this saddle is not the saddle for your horse. I don't make money when you buy a new saddle, but you will be more successful because you'll sit better in this saddle and your horse will feel better in this saddle. And that's going to go with bits, bridles, any of that stuff.

Crysta Brown: Right. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Brian: Blankets when I say this is the specific blanket I want in my barn because I know the climate of my barn Please don't order that outdoor turnout blanket that was on sale for $29 on Amazon I literally gave you an item number of which one to order because I know it works for us I'm trying to help you help me and and it's never meant to have like I I'm never gonna be like, my gosh, you shouldn't wear that outfit because it makes you look so fat I'm not gonna say that I'm gonna say hey, you know

Crysta Brown: Yes. Ha ha ha! Yeah. Yeah.

Brian: Let's come up with an outfit that's more flattering for your look and that goes well with your horse.

Crysta Brown: But can we just say, again, it's not because, I'm imagining if I'm the amateur and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, I use so much of my fun money on this sport already and it feels like, Brian, all you're telling me is more money, more money, more money. But I want to add, okay, I have had this happen over and over and over where, is kind of new to the sport, because I get a lot of those, right? They're kind of new. And so they're like, ⁓ come on, I don't really need the custom chaps. And I'm like, okay, go ahead and get what you're going to get. And then they buy, you know, the ultra suede version off of God knows where, and they don't fit them. So then we have to re-buy something again. And this happens.

Brian: Yes.

Crysta Brown: in the shirt, right? Okay, we buy this shirt. And then I go, that's really not going to work. And they wear it for two shows and it's falling apart and the stones are falling off. And then they have to rebuy another one. And I'm like, I understand the initial investment can be hard when you're looking at that big number, but you have spent more on buying cheaper version, cheaper version, cheaper version than if you just bought the thing that I had suggested in the first place, that little bit nicer quality.

Brian: the time. Mm-hmm. Cheaper version also doesn't have the resale. So when you buy the quality item, we can resell that quality item. The cheaper version is gonna get donated. So you're definitely out that money and a hundred percent. And again, I'm not trying to spend your money in a bad way because again, I've had horses in training and I want my money spent well. I have a kid that shows horses. I want to do the right thing for her that I can afford. And sometimes that means used.

Crysta Brown: Yes! Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Garbage. Yep.

Brian: So if you can find used show clothes that actually fit you or that you can get tailored to fit you, there's nothing wrong with that quality though. So make sure that you're even used, you're gonna get that good quality and that's the difference. And same with like the saddles. I think saddles is one of my biggest things I run into because they are expensive. But one thing we don't talk about in our industry enough is saddle fit. We have a couple of major brands of saddles that make show saddles and people buy them because that's the brand.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brian: But saddle fit is huge. especially in other industries like barrel racing and stuff like that, they take it very seriously. And I don't think we put enough attention on that. And I'm fortunate enough to work with Sterling Saddlery and they have a lot of different trees. And once we know that this horse is kind of going to be your horse, we can build a saddle based off your horse's fit. again, resell on that saddle when you buy a new horse, if it doesn't fit, it's still going to be good because we started with a high quality saddle in the first place.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Brian: And I don't benefit from that again. Like it's your success.

Crysta Brown: No, you're so right though, because I know we don't get a kickback. I have heard rumors before. I'm not kidding. I have heard rumors before where someone was like, no, my trainer gets a kickback from the vet and a kickback for it. I'm like, I promise you, I have never met anybody who gets a kickback from the vet. I can promise. Like normally we're coming to you. Yeah, that would be great actually if it did work that way. But I do feel like

Brian: I wish. I wish. Yeah, no, no. And I should because I take a lot of horses there. Right?

Crysta Brown: You know, speaking to saddle, I understand people being on budgets and I deeply care about that. And like, I will be the first person to be scouring Facebook for you, which I'm not charging for, but like for you, looking for a secondhand saddle of something that I know is gonna sit you better, which makes us, instead of me going over and over and over in your lesson, get the leg back, get the leg back, ⁓ my gosh, it's back. The right saddle that fits your body will do that for you.

Brian: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes, yes.

Crysta Brown: It's amazing. I genuinely, I can speak from my own experience. When I was like broke youth kid, right? My first saddle, I kid you not, was like made in China off of eBay, but it was like 500 bucks and it was what I could afford and it's what I started with, right? But like literally the back of it was like uneven, like complete garbage, right? So then I upgraded to somebody's trophy saddle.

Brian: Yes. Same. Peace out. Yeah, yeah.

Crysta Brown: but that saddle really didn't sit me well in the pocket. I really struggled with my pelvic position and I just kept, like, I was really hard on myself. I'm not good enough, I'm not this. In reality, as soon as I switched to a better made saddle, problem went away, just like that. And I want that experience for people and I think you can't know until you've felt it. Same thing with good quality bits.

Brian: Yeah. It's wild.

Crysta Brown: And like, you can get a good quality bit, especially secondhand. That's like the 50 to a hundred range. And then of course we can go as high as those damn Chuck bits. But like you can get the secondhand deals. And again, I will literally be scouring the internet because I care about people's budgets, but you will do so much better with quality. the quality I just think goes farther than people understand versus that the cheaping out.

Brian: Yes. And it's fun, I enjoy that process with you. Yes, yes.

Crysta Brown: And again, what you're talking about, like the resale value, your cost per use ends up being lower because you're also then able to sell it on when you're ready for the next thing.

Brian: Exactly, and that's again, I'm not trying to spend your money because it's fun for me I'm trying to do it because I want you to look successful and be successful

Crysta Brown: Okay, I now kind of want to transition into some more of this sticky show situations I've seen. I, again, I have the privilege of being in so many different barns and I get to observe so many people's dynamic with their trainer. And something I see a lot is the management of disappointment at the horse show. Because I think a lot of times when you're the amateur, can feel like I am like bending over hand and foot trying to make this work to get my horse to this horse show. And then we got here and I was six and seventh. I thought I paid you to get me into those high placings.

Brian: Okay, so first of all, I set this up at home and this starts before we even do entries because I love that you think you're ready to go show the equitation, but your horse isn't or you still don't know your diagonals. We are not entering that class if your horse isn't ready and you don't know your diagonals. So we set that up at home first of all. I try to say all the time, you're not ready to do this class, we aren't doing it. Especially world show classes for me. We only go in classes we think we're going to be competitive in.

Crysta Brown: You

Brian: It's not worth the time for anybody to go in there and be disappointed. That is one of the hardest parts of our job. It really is. And one of my favorite things to do when somebody comes out, rather than immediately tell them all of my thoughts is, what did you think about your ride?

Crysta Brown: Right.

Brian: Genuinely, like I want to know what you thought about your ride. Did you think that was the best ride you've ever had? And then I can go, yeah, but you missed all four diagonals. You forgot to back and you got the wrong lead. Maybe it's not that bad, right? But it gives me a sense of the reality too. Like you thought that was the ride of your life when all seriousness, so many things, major, major penalties were happening. So I really love that we have more Showtracker now too, because I will, you'll come out of the arena.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.

Brian: I'll say, how did you think your ride went? I'll pull up tracker and we'll look at the scores together and we'll talk about those scores. And a lot, I try to video my clients classes or I have a great client that will video for me and we'll watch the video together. And I'll say, we could have changed this, this and this. So then when the placings are announced, they're also either excited that they did better than I made it out to be because I'm always looking for improvement. There's, I don't care. You just won the world. Awesome. We could have improved that ride still. That's my job is to look for the best of it for you and the worst of it. But then.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Thank you.

Brian: When those placings come out and you do like have that letdown feeling, I also like to remind everybody, one person wins the class. One, there's one winner. Somebody's going to be last. That's the reality of horse-chowing. Literally, it can be that close. And that disappointment sets you up later on to feel so much better about it when you do win. Because sometimes you have a good day, sometimes you have a bad day. And also you have to work up to that.

Crysta Brown: and sometimes by a half a point. Mm-hmm.

Brian: And the disappointment side is real. When you're disappointed in how bad your go was, I'm twice as disappointed, not in you, in the situation because I want you to be successful because I'm successful when you are. Your success in the show pin reflects on me and what I've done to prepare you. So although you think you're upset and disappointed, I feel it 10 times worse because I spend six days a week with these horses. They're like my children and I'm invested and I'm invested with you on you doing well as well.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Okay, but what would you say if somebody was like, I don't feel invested in my program. I feel like I'm their bottom of the barrel client.

Brian: Ooh, I like how you said that. You made that sound like you were talking to someone else. Were you just communicating with another client in the barn or coming to me directly saying, I feel, thank you, we just hit another topic that I don't think you were going for, but that's real. I don't want you walking around telling everybody you feel bottom of the barrel in my program when you haven't made me aware of that first, because that's a real issue that we need to talk about. If you feel like I'm not giving you the attention that you deserve,

Crysta Brown: Yeah.

Brian: We need to restructure something. Either you need more attention than I can give to all of my clients. I try to balance it as fairly as I can between everybody. Or maybe there is a hole there that I missed because I thought you were a fine. Like a lot of times this happens where I'm like, okay, this client has been here for 10 years. They know the program. They know everything we do. They're good. That's my fault because I'm like, okay, I know that you know it, but I still do need to be there for you. It's okay to have that conversation with your trainer and I know some trainers are really hard to approach. If you're feeling that way, you still need to go have the dialogue because you're paying for this service. And again, I'm going to go back to I'm only successful when you're successful, but do not go tell everyone at the horse show how you're feeling about how bad it is. If you haven't come to me first, that is huge for me, huge. And if you feel like you absolutely cannot approach your trainer at all, find a new one.

Crysta Brown: ⁓ man, yes. Yeah, I agree with that. I really do. ⁓ And yes, again, actually not where I was trying to go with anything, but it is such a good point because I think there is a really fine line between you do need people to vent to, right? Like in the most like respectful way possible, if I'm going through something hard, my husband don't got a clue. Like the

Brian: Hahaha Yes.

Crysta Brown: barn dynamics or like he doesn't understand. So I can't really talk to him the same way I can somebody else that's in industry. And if all of your friends in the industry are your barn friends, who do you talk to? And I will actually say my initial spirit when I first started ⁓ putting like the availability for one-on-one calls on my website, I first positioned them as confidential calls because I was like, I think sometimes people need someone to

Brian: Right, right.

Crysta Brown: vent this issue off of, who is not going to spread it around, and has a professional opinion. Because I just want to remind people that sometimes your friend might be like the most loveliest person, but there are some things that a trainer can understand or a professional can understand at a different level. Like when horse trainer saying it's time to sell your horse. That might feel to you like a shot in the heart because you love Fluffy and you bred him at home. You you saw him become who he is today. But the trainer might be sitting there going, right, but you told me you want to win the novice Hunter, under saddle at the world show. And that's just not who Fluffy is. I think. when you're talking to another amateur, they may not have the eye even developed to understand that side of it. And that's where I think it can be really valuable to balance, not to say everyone needs to buy my product, but just that was like a lot of my heart behind it initially.

Brian: Yes. Yes. No, totally. Yeah. And I understand what you're saying too, but find someone in your barn, not outside your barn. That's one of my biggest things too, is we're a barn family and we need to keep our barn dirty laundry within our own little laundry room. Like, let's not go tell everyone at the horse show, whatever bad thing is going on. But also, and again, at the horse show, it's gonna be hard to have that conversation because as a trainer, I'm a hundred times busier at a horse show than I am at home. We already talked about how busy I am at home.

Crysta Brown: Hahaha

Brian: But you need to be able to say, hey, at some point in the day, could we have a quick conversation? I just have some ideas I want to run by you. That set me up to know that there's something we need to discuss. And it also makes me available to have that time with you. And this conversation could only last five minutes. It can be a really short, quick conversation that is brewing in your brain as this big, huge, awful idea. And it may not be. It could be something so simple where I'm like, I have felt the same way. I've thought of five solutions. Are you interested in any of these solutions?

Crysta Brown: ⁓ a hundred percent. Okay. Yes. Like there are so many times where like I can tell somebody is literally like, like been in a panic about a conversation with me of like, you know, I just feel like we didn't have the show that I thought we were going to have. And I'm like, me too, girl. And now I've got this, this, and this plan. Do you like my plan?

Brian: Yeah Yes, yes, yes, 100%. And I think that dialogue is the biggest thing we're missing. Like I realized that some trainers feel intimidating or whatever that situation may be, but that open dialogue is really, really important. And when you're looking for a trainer, I think that's something that is really important to look for. And when you're shopping for a trainer, that is the time to ask other people questions. Ask people in their barn, like, hey,

Crysta Brown: Yeah.

Brian: Do you love Krista's open communication style or does she not have any? Because that's something that's important to me. Does Krista give you lessons eight days a week? ⁓ wait, there's only seven in the week, but you do want eight days. No, Krista doesn't do that. You know, like those are good questions. That's the time to shop around, but that dialogue is important and you have to have a trainer you can talk to. And on that side, I need to have clients I can talk to. I need to feel like I can approach you with that important topic or...

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Alright.

Brian: Or for us, it's really hard when we say, have done everything in my wheelhouse to make this horse successful. I don't feel like I'm getting it done. So here are some options. This horse could go be a world champion in someone else's program. I'm never going to say it's not going to be a world champion because then I look like an idiot if it is. We all have our own style, right? So I need to know what horse is my style. Sometimes that's the hard conversation I need to be able to have too.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no.

Brian: And you need to be open to that conversation just as much as I need to be open to your conversations.

Crysta Brown: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think you're spot on as always. ⁓ for our Ami friends. I just wanna quickly speak to, like, I want them to remember that you are the client and we want your business. So I would much rather you come have a hard conversation with me of like, even if it's my video clients and they're like, you know, Chris didn't feel very focused in my last lesson or I didn't think those exercises were like super focused to what I needed, right? Like if you come to me with that problem, I like money. I would love to make more.

Brian: Yes. Yeah

Crysta Brown: So if you come to that problem, at least for me, I'm like, I'm going to fix that. Don't you worry about it. I'm going to do this, this, and this, and we're going to build a game plan to help make sure we're on the same page for next time. Right? ⁓ So I want feedback, and I would much rather you have an uncomfortable conversation with me than you just leave. So ⁓ Speaking of leaving, ⁓ am curious your thoughts before we wrap up here on leaving on good terms. I think it's a really hard thing in the industry. It's hard for ⁓ us when horse leaves because you do get super attached them. They are your children. And I think a lot of the clients understand that piece of it and they know there is going to be an emotional tie. It's not.

Brian: Yeah. Yeah.

Crysta Brown: purely this professional thing. know, if you leave a marketing agency, it's really not that big of a deal. You just send an email, hey, I'm moving on. So how do, okay, maybe you can kind of line out for me your ideal situation and maybe we can speak to some of the things we don't like when people are ready to leave.

Brian: Right, right. See ya. This is one of the hardest parts of our business without a doubt because A, like you said, those horses do kind of become our children, but our clients become our family. I mean, we live on the road together. We eat together. We spend so many hours together. I spend more time with my clients than I do outside my general household family. I mean, my clients literally are my family. And I've had clients that have had to go different directions for many different reasons. First,

Crysta Brown: Yeah.

Brian: Tell me before you go anywhere and tell me before you tell anybody else. Even before you go find the next horse trainer you're gonna go to or if you're actually taking the horse home. Don't lie about that too. Don't tell me, ⁓ I'm gonna take my horse home and then in two months I see you at a different horse trainer. I wanna know, I wanna know. Like have that open communication with me because a lot of times I might be able to help you find a trainer that I think is gonna work really good for you. And that's okay. Not every program is the perfect match and maybe it was for a period of time and then it changes and that's all fine. And again, not every trainer's is approachable and it can be a very, very hard conversation, but that needs to be ⁓ phone call or an in-person meeting. That is not a text message. That is not an email. That is not a, my horse is getting picked up tomorrow because I'm sending it somewhere else. ⁓ let's have dialogue. You know, it's happened. It has happened. ⁓

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, don't like that.

Brian: I want it to end on good terms for both of us because our world is this big, we're going to see each other again next weekend. You know what I mean? Like, it's important for both of us to feel comfortable.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. Yes, I want that. Yes, I think that needs like shouted on the rooftops because it's like if you want to keep showing in this world, we're going to see each other again. so like trainers, we have a responsibility of like we need to check our emotions and like try to come into it as professional as possible. Right. Like that's on us. And even some of the things you're saying, I'm to give like the slightest bit of pushback because having a long relationship with you, I know you're a very safe person and you genuinely want the best for everyone, even if it means you're not getting the money in your pocket anymore. But not everyone is like that. So I do feel like it could be very scary if I came to you and I said, I think I need to try another program. There are some people that are going to go pack your shit and get it out of here. And that can feel really intimidating. trying to think of like,

Brian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Agreed. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.

Crysta Brown: how I want maybe our amateurs to be good examiners of their horse trainer. See how they've dealt with other people leaving the program. If they've been really safe and mature about it every time, that's probably someone you can really communicate the process to. If they're someone who has like a blow up and has a story about everybody that leaves, if there is a story about everyone that leaves and it doesn't sound something along the lines of,

Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

Crysta Brown: It was time for them to try something new. really wish that I really hope the best for them. I that might be a little bit more drama and maybe you should be careful, but I literally just wrote a blog on this topic because I do feel like a lot of people struggle with it. And personally, the things that I outlined is like, I think you need to start with gratefulness because this is an industry where trainers dedicate so much, even if you're not happy with something going on now.

Brian: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. ⁓

Crysta Brown: there probably was a time that you were happy. So you can just speak to that. Like, thank you so much for all of our successes together and like the things that happened, or just thank you for how thoughtful you were about my horse. Like, find something you can be grateful for because that then helps me like, okay, I'm not being attacked. And then I think the honesty, yeah, and then I think the honesty that you spoke to is so important because my pet,

Brian: I that.

Crysta Brown: is when somebody says, ⁓ I'm just taking my horse home for a little bit. I'll probably be back later though. And then they go on and there was somebody else. Because some trainers will literally save space for you because maybe that was their favorite horse. And then they're out money on a lie. I really think you have to do the scary thing and be honest. And I actually...

Brian: Yes.

Crysta Brown: I don't know about you. I personally don't need to know every little gripe of why you want to leave. I don't really need that. If I'm curious, I'll ask. But like, I think you can just say, I think I'm ready to try something new, Krista. But like, thank you so much for everything. I'm thinking I'm going to have Fluffy picked up on the 25th.

Brian: ⁓ no, not at all. Right. So I do actually in my contract say I get a 30 day notice. And what that means is if you don't give me notice, then you still have to pay for that month of training because I held that spot in my barn for you. We have a full barn. I don't have a single empty stall in my barn. I might have somebody that wants your empty spot, but now I've missed that opportunity because I didn't know what was going on. And going back to that some trainers might blow up, I have seen that so many times. So out to those amateurs.

Crysta Brown: Okay. Yeah.

Brian: A, I'm gonna apologize for that situation for you because that is really, really hard road to navigate, really hard. But again, go in there as the bigger person and have some clear communication and say, hey, you know, I have been happy with this part of the program, as you said, but I just think that it's time for me to go a different direction. And maybe that means you've already picked another trainer to go to, or as I said earlier,

Crysta Brown: Yeah.

Brian: Think I need to go another direction. Is there a trainer you have in mind that I might be successful with? Because again, all of us horse trainers work together. We have worked together for 20 plus years. We're going to work together for another 20 plus years. So prior to you coming to horse showing, I already have these relationships. Once you quit, I still have those relationships. So although you think it might be a super good fit, I might go, ⁓ my gosh, please let me tell you this is not going to be a good fit for you.

Crysta Brown: Mm-hmm.

Brian: because of this situation.

Crysta Brown: Well, yes, because sometimes it's like, and even when it's me, right? Like I'm very like, I'm a certain vibe, right? Like I'm pretty casual about things. Like I don't get fluffed up by much. Like if you want like a trainer that's like energy, energy, energy, that's actually really not how I am. I know like people see me on TikTok and they sometimes perceive me that way, but that's really not how I coach. I'm not super, I'm very passionate.

Brian: You Yeah, I've seen your coach.

Crysta Brown: but I'm not a lot of energy. And some people respond better to that person who's like, ugh, dig in, drive. Like, that's who they need. And that doesn't mean I did a bad job, but they need that different type of energy. In the same way, some barns are really full service. Some barns are almost DIY, but you're being coached. And some people, they like more DIY. And some people are like, give me the full service. Take it off my plate.

Brian: Yeah. ⁓ Yes. ⁓

Crysta Brown: And so it's like sometimes, yeah, it's like, it's OK if you want to try something new. Maybe you just had a baby and you need like the most full service to your possible. Absolutely. I hope that for you, too. Enjoy.

Brian: Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Crysta Brown: Well, I so appreciate you giving me your time, Brian. I think you've given so many valuable insights here. And unfortunately, I could talk to you literally all day and there's a million different topics we could discuss here. So we may just have to do it again. ⁓ but yeah, but I just like, I wanted to kind of wrap up just saying, like, I think both of us are very pro horse trainer. Like we love our friends in the industry. We have friends in the industry, God forbid. And

Brian: Yeah I would love that. No.

Crysta Brown: That doesn't mean that we can't acknowledge that there are times where you have been burned by a horse trainer in the past, and we understand that not every horse trainer is perfect. I hope those listening can understand that we are pro industry as a whole, and I think everything is gray. I know some folks that are fabulous. I would trust my own horses with them. And I know some folks where I'm like, they're really fun, but I don't know if I would send a horse into that program. You know? And so I just, I just want to maybe share that we can empathize with the amateur situation, but I also can deeply empathize with what it can feel like to be the trainer. And I just, I think it's important to have dialogue for both, you know?

Brian: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes. Again, open communication.

Crysta Brown: Yeah. And Brian, before I let you go, ⁓ if people want to like see more from you, hear more from you, where can they find you?

Brian: personally I'm big on Facebook so Brian Henry is my Facebook page and then TikTok 831 Ranch and we also have an Instagram and a YouTube channel all under 831 Ranch so those would be the places to kind of see what's going on but for me personally I'm a Facebook person I'm old I'm old school there's that app called Instagram or something I'm terrible about that ⁓ John John runs the 831 Instagram because I just don't do that so

Crysta Brown: Amazing. you

Brian: And again, don't call me, text me.

Crysta Brown: No, I love it. You're amazing. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. Nobody be calling Brian. Guys, I'm going to leave you there. So as we go, just remember you can't be all of the good that the horse show world needs, but the horse show world needs all the good that you can do until next time. Bye.

Brian: I'm sorry.