#225 - Paul DiGiovanni Makes Deal for ‘Boys Like Girls’ To Reunite + How He Met His Wife Katie Stevens from ‘The Bold Type’ + His Love for Tom Brady

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to episode. Paul D. Giovanni is here. Good to see you here in the house. You know, we've met out a bunch of times. I would say a little more than just met that. We've been friendly out a couple of times. We have for a number of years. Now. I feel like, you know, is your wife famous? It's pretty famous? Okay, I don't know what what is she in? She is in a show on Freeform called The Bold Type? Okay, is does that have like a big fault, like a big fault, like because when you got married and they had your pictures all over people people, I thought, good for Paul. One, she's way prettier than he has. It's always a goal for us guys, right, it's always that's a huge compliment. But two, I was like, can't people's covering Paul's wedding? It was in the magazine too, which is crazy, like and then I saw I went to your wife's Instagram and she had a ton of followers. So she's an actress. She is? So she did she end up here? She ended up in Nashville, I will say probably mostly because of me. Um. We met in l A. So she got her start. She did American Idol. She was finished in eighth place when she was like sixteen. How long ago is that? Um? Eleven years ago? Is it bad that I don't know all the history of American I don't like I'm on the show and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah, there's still a singer. Yes, so she hasn't done anything in a minute, but um, we're kind of talking about maybe doing something soon. But we met in l A. And um, she was on a show called Faking It Um on MTV at that point. And then that when a few seasons, I ended up moving here um to do you know, the whole country thing. And we were still together, but it was one of those things where she had to work there and I was here and we weren't sure what was going to happen. She took a trip out surprised me here, and while she did that, she was like, wow, I love it here. All our friends are here. What am I doing in l A? Like? So how long ago was that? That was five years ago? Ish? And so you guys have both been together, been here five years? Well, she's an actress, so of course she's always gone. But like, our home base is here. You get your mail here the mail, Yeah, And I mean I'm always here, like at all times here unless I'm visiting her and her show was called The Bold Type. And how did you two meet? Were you the guitarist when you met her? Um? Or were you already the band when we met? The band was pretty slow at that point already we'd kind of like not really been doing anything, um And I was writing out in l A and kind of just hanging And I moved in with a friend of hers and she I found out later she saw a picture of me online with him actually a Celtics Clippers game, and she was like, who is that guy in our friend Garvy was like, oh, that's my new roommate. UM, so she to you and she just showed up one day and was like, oh, hey, who are you like? And I didn't know she had preplanned it with him, So I kind of got ambushed a little bit, but the best kind of ambus It worked. Yeah, And I really wasn't expecting to start with that, but I was just thinking about you. I wish I do a lot, thank you I think about and Uh, I was like, oh yeah, I want because I again, unless you there are so many ways now that if you're good at what you do to have notoriety, success, fame, whichever level of that that you And because I don't follow that thread of female, I assume it's a female show. Yes, it's like tampons and it's it's yeah, there's a girl. It's like a younger sort of sex in the city things. Yeah, So I wouldn't. I wouldn't stumble up on that. Probably not I'm watching. I watched Cheer. Have you watched Cheer on Netflix? I have it pops up and I'm telling you I was holding out. I was like, what do I care about a cheerleading show? But I do really like documentaries. So I'm torn because one of those things where the story is so good it doesn't matter what the thing is they're actually talking about. Yes, but then you really get into cheer and all of a sudden, you it's one o'clock in the morning, You're like, I can't do it, and you're just like feeling all of it. You're playing like fantasy cheerleading competitions on your phone. It's it's great. The girl that I'm dating now, um was like you should watch it, and I was like, no, I don't think so like, you should watch it. So what I like to do sometimes to prove people wrong. So I was gonna watch and hate it and I was gonna hit Yeah. I was like this gonna I'm gonna hit it. And then when she could just like I can just be like, hey, let me alone. I want to talk about it anymore. It's stupid. But I watched the first episode and I was like, oh, are they going only sixty days old Daytona. I need to see what happens next. So when I turned Netflix on, you know has the auto play thing? Cheer has been auto playing full volume for the past two weeks and I just hate get it out of my face speaking to you. So I'm mad at it. But now maybe it's like a thing that needs to happen. It's such a good show. Like I'm really wondering what's up with everybody like I've I'm not wondering because I've now stalked them all on Instagram and luckily they're adults there there. It's it's a junior college and it's Navarro Junior College, so they're all like twenty two. So but yeah, it's great. It's speaking of girls show. I may even like your Wife's show. Do you watch your wife show? I do? Do you like it? Would you like it if wasn't your wife? I I think it's safe to say, like, I probably wouldn't have started watching the show if she wasn't on it already. But now that I do, it's really good. It's funny, it's well written. There is something for everybody on it. Well, good for you. Good. She's always super nice, like she's like, yeah, she's the cool She's let's I'll be honest, she's cooler. The people like when they see me out there, like, hey, where's Katie? Like immediately, I'm like, I get it now. I'm gonna just roll through some stats on you real quick, and then we'll come back to it. Number one songs that you've written, just a more of the ones that didn't make it Back Home Dan and Shay how not. One of my best buds, Adam Hamburg. Yeah, And he came out and was playing guitar in by band for a bit, and we played this every night because you know, if you write it, you get to play it. Oh that's cool. I didn't even know that, and so I did. I did a lot of the backgrounds on this song for a long time. I had to learn it like awesome, I learned the easy parts on guitar, but yeah, we did that a lot. Um as a producer singles you up from Jordan Davis, what's they're like? Because I know what it's like when you're write a number one and I have a lot of friends that have written number ones and the number one parties. But if you produce a number one, what happens? Um it's less cool. I think, like you get like maybe a little less love at the number one party, But that's fine. I mean, like I know my job when it's it's as a producer, like I'm usually my first thought is you know, I I love production. That's why I do it right. Obviously I wouldn't, but I'm always like, man, I wish I had written this too, of course, but um no, it's cool. I mean I love it all. I like I like the mix. I like producing. Um like usually one record at a time. I've tried to do multiple projects at once and it just spreads me too thin. But I like having that kind of like tinkering with something for so long part of my job, and then also writing every day and just grabbing the magic as it comes and seeing what comes of it. Sort of thing back and forth really works well for me. Have you ever got a song to produce? And I thought, if I if we just change this part a little bit here, and then they said, you deserve writing credit on it because you've changed it so much, because it's a fine line when you're producing. I've heard of that happen because you're creating as a producer. Have you Has that ever happen to you? It hasn't. I mean, I've changed little things here and there that I just think her for the benefit of like my job as a producers to make it the best thing possible. I think if I was, if i've I mean, I couldn't even imagine being like, hey, I think we need to change all these lines or whatever, because that's kind of overstepping a little bit if it. If it came to that point at some point, maybe I would, But I never have. So I mean, I've I've gotten some pretty good stuff to produce so far. I guess that means you can change a word if I could get credit and no one would care, and I could do that every time I would change a word. There are and you probably know them too. We won't say them, but I know of a couple of artists who have done that, who have been like, I mean, you're I'm gonna cut the song like like, as an artist, I'm gonna at a word. I've heard of that too. Um. I think there's something too. If you're an artist and you get a song pitch and you normally write your songs in I get like, if you're an artist, you feel like you need to own something to a degree if you are actually making it a little more yours. I think that that's a little more yours is different than going I'm gonna change a word and one word it seems like it's pushing it. I'm not worry behind that even a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. I wouldn't do that, I don't think, but disrespectful to the songwriters who spent the four hours or more writing it demoing it. I would like to say, I'm not an advocate of people who do that. Right, if you're not changing it really for the better that you believe deep down in your heart, then yeah, that could be a little I could see that could be seen a certain way. Other songs you wrote the New Sam Hunts. Sitting with you, I never feel like I was sad, always feel like I can talk to God. Was Emily Wiseman, Josh Osborne, Sam Hunts, and then uh, what do this one? Cassidy Pope take you home? To take you even miss being the guy on stage because we talked about your songwriting. You're producing as you don't you know with that job, You're not really out there as much. I'm back and forth with it a little bit. When I'm at a show and I'm feeling it at night and i just see the band go up there and they're killing it and I'm side stage or whatever, I'm like, man, I kind of missed that. I have that in my DNA a little bit. I do miss it. But then at the end of the night, when I go home and get in bed and wake up the next morning, I kind of like, I'm glad I'm not on a bus again for the next six months because when we tour, I mean the country touring thing, which I never knew about until I started doing country is Wednesday night till Sunday morning, or Thursday until Sunday morning, and then you go home for the rest of the week. Obviously rock we would be gone for there were times we were gone for nine months straight toward to tour to tour, driving a van like every single day playing the show, so that it was pretty exhausting. H And if you're not familiar Boys Like Girls, you were the lead guitar player Boys Like Girls. Uh, let's play a few of these songs, because when I was doing pop radio, I played the crap out of this the Great Escape. Here's this one, Yeah, let's what would you say that your next biggest song is? Like I know a bunch of these just from being in around it, but I don't know, like I think our biggest like on paper with two is better than one with Taylor it was bigger than the Great Escape. I think like number wise it was, but the Great Escape did like got us going. That was bigger, like for like a social thing. I think like people remember that one the most. Yeah, I know all the words of the Great Escape. I don't know that I know too is better than one. Maybe because Den'll Emo and Taylory. It's like watching The Girls Show and I'm like, I don't know what's for me? Yeah, um, and then probably uh love Drunk would be yeah, just this one was a jam. Which one did you like to play the most when it was time to show up on the set list? So we had a fun thing um where we played Um. I think that was probably the most fun that got the crowd going the craziest. But we would play certain songs twice in a set, like we would open the show with Love Drunk and then close it would Love Drunk, or play the Great Escape twice or We're just We went to a we had a radio event and was it Baby Bash? Yeah? Was that the guy that had Cyclone and everything? He came out and he was playing three songs and he he did Cyclone with all the guys. They're whipping the towels around, and then he played Sugar Sugar or whatever. Great, and then they played Cyclone again, and the crowd went crazier the second time. So we were like, what if we just did this, It's like if people don't like it, we don't do it again. But we started doing and every time you played the song the second time, they go crazier. So we just started doing it, and you guys got together how very kind of organically. We were just upround each other all yeah, all about an hour away. Like I was an hour west of Boston, Martin was an hour north, and John and Brian were an hour south. So we just um me and two of the guys started doing like this folk project in my town with a kid I knew, and then we finished that. A year later, I got a call to come audition, and I did, and Martin was there and we just started doing the thing and everything happened real fast. And Martin's here now too, right. I've seen him around a little bit. Are you guys cool or no? Yeah you are? I was. I was over this house last night. All of us were together, actually all really do you do? You guys ever played together? We are? You're going to again in April. We're going to Australia and a few other spots. Have you guys thought about bringing it back? We have talked about a few different things. We're not really sure exactly what yet, but we're gonna figure it out. Somebody just put out a record, Mike, we're just talking about and in there Nashville were buddies with them, Yeah, yeah, And we took them out on their first tour ever actually way back. They have a new song. It's called like I hate l A or something heard it and it's good, but it reminds me of like you guys a style that you know and a lot of that because again I was in pop when you guys were over there too, so we both were there. But it's like, man, I could really see you guys doing it again. Yeah, well, I mean I think we're kind of just like, I mean, we all hang out every day, like we're still really really close. So it's kind of like, why why don't we just see what happened? Like what's the worst that could happen? Did the company break up? Like because you're you're a band and you had to like an l L. See, I'm sure the money all went to right. Yeah, I think we don't really have any of that happening anymore, but like if something starts rolling again, we're that's the easy part. The hard part is getting that that smash hit number one song written. Dang, that's pretty cool. We'll see, I mean you kind of we're just gonna if it's not fun at this point, we're all doing stuff. They're all like good looking and still like hitting it though. It's good. Everything's good. Yeah, you and Martin are better now. I think you're even better now. I like, I'll take yeah, I think like you're awesome. You're like cooler and better looking, in better shape, and I think that. Alright, we're gonna go. I'm gonna go right after this project for a Boys Like Girl. We're gonna announcement in midnight. Here's what here's what we'll do. When you guys decide it, you can come on my show and you can play on my show, and we'll make the big announcement. If you want hundred and sixty cities. Okay, that's helpful, so that it will make that deal right here, because I was a big fan whenever you guys do it, if you want, you can come on my show. All right, you don't have to. I can said, you know, Woody at all to a buddy, I'm down. No, no, no, that's that's the right that's the right space. Alright. How long did you guys do Boys Like Girls? We did that from end to two thousand five, and then we kind of we didn't like say we're breaking up, but we just kind of stopped doing stuff around twenty thirteen ish. And is that when you went, all right, I'm gonna go to Nashville. Um, so I was in l A. I think for another year, and I never I was always on tour when I was living in l A. So it's never there long term. And I think I spent a year there and I was thinking, I have to get out of here. It's just not really it's just got to be groundhog day sort of like every day is the same. I don't really know what I'm doing or why I'm here, what my purposes. And I grew up in the Northeast and I kind of just missed um seasons and normal people and things like that in Boston. Yeah, so, UM, I started. I wrote a couple of country songs with my buddy Kevin Bard, who we wrote How Not To with. Um. We were doing sinc music a little bit, like he's like a huge sync writer out there, which is if you don't know, like television film like um, any of those commercials, like those punk rock sounding commercials for like beer commercials or whatever, cell phone commercials, all that stuff. So one day he called me, He's like, hey, UM, I know this girl who's doing this kind of country thing. Um, would you be interested in like hopping in Like I'd never listen to country, but I've never written it. He's like, let's just try it, and I just fell in love with how like how much sense it makes compared to pop, Like pop, I was always a little confused, like what are the people really talking about kind of thing trying to write it at least? Did you feel like pop is more melody driven? It definitely like I mean pop right, once in a while, I'll still do it here or in l A or whatever, and it's still like some people get on the mic and just sing melodies for two hours and pick their favorite three. It was just totally different than for country generally, but just the content matter. It's just like I didn't I feel like I could just tell a story with country because that's what it is, and it just made more sense to my creative brain. I guess. So who was the girl you came here? It was actually full circle story, this girl Katie Offerman, who now is signed at Universal Publishing where I'm at two. So she full circle moved here and started a thing and now she's like doing an artist thing and everything. Did you guys think Cassidy ever across paths early on what she was doing? Hey, Monday, Oh yeah. We took them out on tour. We played a million shows. I remember once whenever it was Hey Monday and Mike, what's the band that lives here? The girl? We just about a paramore and at the time they were both around the same spot. But they couldn't be putting next to each other and it's a big drama. It was like, I can't put them back to where was this? It was in Austin, Oh And it was like, don't put them on the same bill, right next to each other. And they didn't dislike each other. That wasn't the reason, but it was someone from one of the two camps was like, they're they have a lead singer, they're female, they're both punk pop. Don't put them didn't want to see someone just didn't want to see them back from one of the camps. Don't know which camp it was. Um, you know, and Cassie and I've DoD a bunch of work together and she's I've taken around. She's open for me on some stand up towards and stuff. But again, that's kind of a weird thing where you're over there and now you're both and you end up writing a song for her that was the craziest thing. So when you come to Nashville you start writing, when was it when you go, all right, I gotta move out there. So I would take trips. Um. So early on we used to blg us to rehearse here and we took our buses out of here. So I had a lot of experience with the city, especially with the Taylor Swift thing. Um, so I had always loved it. And me and my buddy Kevin just started in like one week every month. We would come for a week and um, just right for a week, bring the stuff back, produced it out, see what happens. We got a few bites on things, nothing crazy or really firm, but um, it just started to make sense. And I'm like this, this is such a community of a city that like it didn't we couldn't just be these guys from l A that flew in and like we weren't gonna get really embraced. So it's like we have to be there just in right full time. It's I was kind of just flying here to go back to l A to pay ten times the rent for no reason and not be where I need to be sort of thing. And I think it was probably six months. Maybe I was just like my lease was running out in l A. And I'm like, I think I'm just gonna go move to Nashville and just do it. And you move here, and then do you start to slowly develop a circle or do you already have a couple of guys that you're you're just kind of with. Weirdly enough, I feel like I had when I moved here, I had more friends here already than I had left in l A. A lot of people had moved here from l A or from New York music friends, people I toured with, different bands, just it just felt like kind of built in, which helped a lot. Did you feel like it took a second to shake the guy from boys like girls to being the guy who's gonna write country songs. I feel like when I moved here, nobody cared at all. It's still like very rare that someone like, if I bring it up or whatever, people like, oh, oh that's so cool, I remember them or whatever. But like it was never like a pigeonholed thing, which is cool. Like a lot of people here didn't really know the band, which kind of maybe helped, But I bet they knew the songs they did people do yeah, people like sometimes once they're like, so what was that band telling about? And then I'll like play a few things like oh yeah, or like if you yeah, it's like, oh, it's like three steps up from there. But that would you? Would you? I'm assuming you were doing the b gbs on those I did. I did some live. Our bass player was the pro with those. So I try to stay away from the singing duties. What is it like touring for six nine months at a time, Like, do you just wear the same clothes every day? We had like a wardrobe thing and we had three shirts in three black pants and we just washed them once in a while, and yeah, it was. It was crazy. It just sounds gross and no offense for Breeze. Yeah, it was a lot of people think touring is glamorous. It is definitely the opposite. Right even I'm even gonna say at how I do it doing stand up if we take a bus or if I'm taking like the small band, if we're doing like and we we tour pretty nice and it's country torning two, don't get me wrong. We'll leave out on a Thursday night, Friday, Saturday, and it's a night and it's still grind. You know, you see these teeth, but not like you. My point is, it's nothing like what you guys were doing. You're in a van for months and months at a time. I never knew that there was anything different. What are you eating though, at this point? Are you just stopping for fast food all the time. In the beginning, it was a lot of fast food. It was Panera bread and cracker barrel we when we were broke, we would unfortunately steal a lot of cracker barrel food when we had to um, just garbage fast food. Which is why you guys are so much better looking now because you now can pay your bills and eat. We can beat a vegetable sometimes. That's why it's so great that you get back together. I know you can. You can pay for a gym member who time totally was now cannonball in that sucker. I'm a manage the band, alright, let's do it. Um your Instagram, Paul B LG. Is that because people have trouble writing your last name? Um they do. But no, at a time, the band was all your name bl G. Were you guys big warped tour guys? We did warp tour one time. That's it. Huh wow. I figured you guys to be a big warped tour. We were like in that world, but not like we weren't. I mean, we came from that like EMO kind of two thousand three to two thousand nine thing, but we were never like fully all in on it, which I think was either why we had success or the other way around, like we had success because we weren't all the way. I don't know, but we did it one time, and it is that was gross that we're going to talk about. Gross. That was gross. Case of water every morning, a case of beer every morning, no laundry. You're in a desert's porta pott. He's got to hit him before the sun hits some like bad stuff get turned on right now? Yeah, you wrote the ones that didn't make it back home. We talked about that a minute ago. My question for that is in the room as you're writing that song, was there ever a discussion of boys this song maybe too long, this title maybe too long? Um? We never had that discussion. No, because I know I've said it about ten million times and I'm always like, here's the ones that didn't make it back, and I'm like, and I remember when I was checking it out on the charts trying to see where it was. It's always like the ones that did Um No, we just wrote it. I did the demo. I think I might have titled it that, and I just always assumed I'll let them figure it out later. And then there it was, the whole, the whole deal. Talk to me about the discussion, and I'm gonna ask you to think about things Brian about in a while, but talk to me about the discussion as you're deciding what songs you're gonna write that day and how this song came up. So we were out we were actually in Green Bay at lambeau Field in the parking lot and um because Justin was playing like a couple blocks away from there or something, and we were on the bus. We were about to start writing and just talking about ideas and Justin just mentioned I guess he says that on stage every night, like here's you know, this is just throwing up for the ones that didn't make it back home or whatever, and he's just like, I always thought that would be a cool title. We just started rolling with it and like wrote it in pretty quick I mean probably three hours to three hours. Did you write it and then record you have a whole set up on I had a little rig on the bus, so we're like, yeah, we we we kind of built up the idea. He went and sound checked and then I had it ready and he's saying it and do you look for quirky words or lines and songs to stick out to people? And I asked this because there's one little phrase in that song that I can't not seeing every time it comes on. Do you know what it is? Um? I got a lot of texts about that. Yeah. Like at first, I was like, and there have been a lot of songs where you're we hear it and you're like, well, that's weird. But then it's the it's the part of the song that remains with you the most. It sticks out, and it's also on its own. There's a little pause before it, a little pause after. It's just Green being Castro Green, Remember Green being Castle roll Grandma's recipe, except nine steps higher. Obviously it's and it's all it's very visual, Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well is that something did you guys teeter around without at all? Like I don't know how do we leave this in? Did it feel quirky at the time? It was not at all, Like it was just kind of like, all right, what you know, we've all kind of had some experiences, whether it be personal or from through friends whatever, of you know, something tragic happening like this, So like what really happens in these small towns? And how can we just make it just authentic and real? And that was just I think that might have been a justin thing that he just said, and just we just wrote it down and rolled we we we never like, especially for that song, we didn't sit down and we were like, what is what is going to make people this or that? We just for a song like that, you really have to just write it from just authentic experience. I feel like Sam has some of those two in his songs um especially a body like a back road like hips like honey, here's a couple of those little quirky things too. The first time you hear you go, oh that, I don't know if that and then it's the really the only thing you remember that the thing you remember. I never know if those are like a lot of those things are like emphasized on purpose or if it's just like happens to be the thing that bus into that that's one. This one was definitely not we we we. We weren't like picturing like hashtag green bean cast role trending on Twitter or anything like. This was like just like a song, like we were just trying to do the right You know, when you finished this whole thing and the song and you you recorded, you did a rough demo on the bus, do you think I think we may have something here with that one? Um? Because a lot of songs right, um, but I think just based off the energy, especially like being in with the artist, like I write a lot of I write song every day with a lot of writers and this and that. You know, you're lucky if you get a couple of year that do anything. But like when we're with you know, when you're with the artist and he kind of falls in love with something as you're doing it and it comes out really organically and everyone's fired up, that's kind of like, okay, this could you know, this could be the thing? Do you a bit hope to get on with these artists right about the time they start recording, because you know these artists, the things they cut closer to their record they're more passionate about, and they because it's so hot in their minds, you tend to see a lot of those last minute cuts get on. Is that ever a strategy with you? That is the thing, that's a strategy? I think that's more so I'll think about that with like pitching stuff. If it's like, you know, none of us have an idea. Really, let's look at the pitch you who's cutting next month? Like yeah, okay, I mean that's an obvious one. But I feel like as far as artists stuff, like whatever whenever we get in with the artists is the best, and whatever they are feeling and works out works out. We I don't really try to like strategize it too hard. I try. I feel like for me with being creative and writing, forcing anything too much doesn't really work. Like even just pitching in general, if it's like, all right, let's write that Tim McGraw this thing that he really needs, like I always failed. Interesting unless I try to write, like just try to write the best song in the room that day, I forced everything I should really How not to what's the story that? How? How did they get around to Dana sha Um? Well? That was the last rite of the year in fourteen or something. It was actually me and Kevin were rented a house out and out here in Nashville. UM, and we had to write with Adam and we texted him in the morning, Hey we're still on He's like, oh, man, I didn't have you written down today. Um, I'm about to head home to Arkansaw. UM. He's like, I have like two hours if you want to come by. And we were like should we even do this or should we just call it? But like, all right, we'll come by. And we wrote this thing like an hour and a half. It was crazy and we were just like feeling it the whole time. And we had it for a little bit. I think Rascal Flats had an on hold for like a year that long. I think they had on hold for a long time holding a second hostage. Yeah. Um. And we always knew the song was special and we were just kind of like waiting for the right you know, are they going to do this or not? And I don't remember if they were like kind of like we're letting it go or didn't really care whatever, But um, at some point my old manager, Rohan who now works at UM Warner UM he you know, I've been friends with Dan forever and Rose worked with Dan forever and all that. So Dan was going to the studio and they had an open slot for another song to cut, and Rose sent a handful and that and how Not To was one of them. Dance like I really liked this, and they cut it in the last slot, and then he afterwards, I guess kind of found out that I had written it, which is cool because we're friends. He didn't know, that's what. Yeah, I don't think he knew, um, which is a cool little layer two it that he wasn't just like, oh my buddy, Paul. It was kind of a natural thing. Um. And they cut it and then like as time went on, everyone's like, hey, people are really digging this. It might be a single. And that's usually the death Wish where it's never gonna be a single, but lo and behold it got singled. And that was my first My first one did a lot for me. Death Wish that one. And when they name a tour after a song, is that the death Wish to? I never paid two much attention to that. Yeah, if they come out and they're like this is the we're butt boys tour, You're like, well, we we're bub boys. Never gonna be a single because they name that. It's never gonna be That's never gonna be a song. And I've been sitting on it's on holds on hold. They've had this song on hold for a year. Yeah, I'm hoping in their their last tour here they finally released what's the what's the paycheck? Like that? What's the the difference in writing a number one song as a songwriter and a producer? Um different, It's one significantly more than the other. Yeah, I mean production, Like I said, like I like doing that. It's a more constant thing for the brain. And also because like you you figure out a rate in the beginning to get paid per song and then you get you know, you get paid for playing on it and like points and all that stuff. But it's not it's nothing like but the points on a number one that you produced is nothing like this songwriter, If you're one third of that, it's not the same. No, much better to be a songwriter. So the producer is a guaranteed check and the song rider is an investment totally. So it's it's almost like a diversifying more my portfolio by doing both at the same time. I guess you could say, are you producing anything right now? Jordan's second record? Right now, I'm doing Jordan Davis. How's that working out good? Do you have any more hits in him or not? He's we're done. I think we're done. It sounds like crap, it's kind of it's just we're not no, no, it's it's awesome. It's going good. We're kind of just um and we've just been cutting a few every month and just um, you know, it's been going awesome. He's he's the best. Love working with him. What's up are you? And Dan? You guys have been boys for a while, Dan, Dan Smyers and Danaans. He is a psychopath. Love him, love him, and it's it for me. It takes one to no one. And I see just how he prepares, and I go, oh, I feel bad for you because I stuffer from the same thing, just control. And it's a double edged sword. He he just cannot turn it off. And it's I mean, it's obviously working out, as you saw last night on the Grand May and I love that it's working for him, like I root for those guys. So I'm like emotional when I see them to legs because I'm just rooting for him so hard. It's like watching a hustler, get it. I mean, listen, there are a lot of talented people in this town. There's a lot of really talented people in this town. But that line is so thin that it's whenever you see someone. Because they were doing Tuesday, Wednesday Thursday night shows as a country, act themselves in small places, like I was watching them hustle like that build their fan base five years ago. I have a picture from south By, Southwest, Me and I think their lawyer or someone were the only two people and it was just them to some built in band and two people in a completely empty place. And now they're doing two nights in our What's funny is that's like only the halfway point of the story because he had been doing like the whole pop rock thing. Like we'd crossed past a million times way back in the day, so like we we've been on the road in like two thousand and six seven, He's been grinding forever. It's not like you just like wrote two songs. It's like, oh cool, yeah, I'll do a record deal. It's like he's been fighting. Wouldn't that be cool if we got to do two songs and talk like that in that voice and get ord deal? Yeah, like that went that got a record? That you get one? That would my mom a star. That's what I'm hoping for. B l G again. We'll write two songs tonight. I don't even care if the song suck, We'll do it on the show. They will. We're washed up man. Yeah, big stars. Tr L performing TRL Time Square that was always a big I know I'm dating me though too, because that was a big deal to me to watch that, To watch t r L in Times Square. That was when I wasn't high school in college. That was like the mecca of what you could do. That's probably a pretty big deal for you guys. I think that was the craziest. I used to run home from school at three pm or two or whatever it was and watched that every day. Carson Daley was the guy on TRL. Was he when you played there? When we did it? It was was Damien? Was that his name? Okay? It was him? Um right, I don't brown. That was a big fan of guy good looking, good looking at yeah, um, but yes it was. That was the coolest thing. We did it, like man, we did like four times too. I think we had videos retired on t r L, meaning they've been on so long that they had to go. You gotta pull the plug on this one. We gotta pull it out. And I think back to like Corn, Like remember that Corn video with the bullet going like stuff like that. Yeah, there we go. I go back to those and I'm thinking, like, we're in the same spot. Those were when I was like thirteen or whatever. You grew up in Boston. Are you big Pats fan? I am? Did you get a PATS tattoo? Recently? I didn't you. Did you get what you can a tattooed? You get what your tattoo? My new one is this one? What is that an eagle? It is? What is that for? UM? I like it? And that's good. It's got initials UM for. This book called The Obstacle is the Way one of my favorite books. I love it, and I love the concept, and I love the whole the whole stoic mentality and that it's just like I will never get sick of that. And every time I look at it, I just think of, like, I don't know, I just keep moving forward. The thing you're trying to get around is the thing you need to just through one of my favorite five books of the past ten years. And the great thing about that book too, it's not intimidating because it's about it's then, and it's a lot of stories and the whole premise is the thing that's driving you the craziest is what's making you successful. Like the the ability to figure out how to get around what's in your way. Is that is that that ends up making you what you are. So you should be grateful for your struggle because that struggle is what makes you successful. A lot of it was like everyone's always like, all right, once I get through these next three months and this is in place and I have this much in the bank, I'm gonna do what I Really it's like, no, this is your life right now. You're actually living your life. So if you if you keep deferring it, you're never going to be living your life. I just love stuff. I'm not like a crazy like public speaker person like motivational speaker thing, but I just like certain But I'll always read one of those at a time and they just like fire me up. Have you read what I'll ask you what's your favorite book? Because it's hard. The books are like Netflix shows. As you think about this is that there's so many great ones and that it's hard to get on the same page with all the shows now. And it's like if you read this note, let this note, if you watch this show. No like Cheer, you watch Cheering. It's great to show in my lifetime. So here we are. Do you have a favorite book? Probably the book of Cheer before that they made the show out of. Yeah, I like the novel was incredible, it was a great Yeah, the graphic novel. Yeah, uh probably. Honestly, the Hobbit was the first book I read as like a novel that like changed my life, like just like the fictional thing, and I was like, wow, this is like art, this is incredible. Interesting. Stay on fiction for a second. Let's go down the lanes. I like somebody that reads books, like talking about books. Um, okay, continue talking about the Hobbit, but don't go to nonfiction yet. So you love the Hobbit because it was just the first thing I read that, Like, you know, there's always a point and some people never got out of it where you have to read books in school and some people are just like I'll never read a book the rest of my life. And then there's always that turning point where you're like, wow, this thing is this is all about I books are cool or they can be cool. And that was the first one where I was like, there's more to it than just like trying to please my teacher and like I want to just watch TV instead of this kind of thing for you. And that was the one and I was probably I don't even know, probably like thirteen or fourteen or something. I just ripped through it, loved it. It's fun. I don't read a lot of fiction, but when I find something that is that is fiction and as good, it's like the greatest dessert. And so because I am a big reader and I've written a couple of books, I love books so much. I like to I like to read about people because I like to read people's mistakes and go, oh I I relate, or okay, that's I can learn about that. I think I learned a lot through my mistakes. Most of what I learned through my mistakes and through others too. And I don't look at other mistakes to go I'll those idiots. I go oh, I probably have done that too. What can I learn from their experience? Um? But on the fiction side of it, because it took me a while to not take myself so seriously to read fiction once I read the freaking Hunger Games. You read the Hunger Games books? I didn't know I watched. No, don't blasphemy to only watch them and not read them. Did you watch them? Yeah? And and they were good. They were good, Yes, But the books are better. They always are because you invest weeks into a book, right, and you get two and a half hours with Jennifer Lawrence and all that. That's pretty good. Yeah. And the movies were good, but were good. I remember reading the books? Maybe that or what was the book? Tom Hanks ended up doing the movie of the the Mona Lisa when the before the da Vinci COO blew up. That book was everywhere when it was so great. I should probably read that. But you've seen the movie, so you know how it ends. I have not seen the movie. O. Great, you'll love it. And it's cliche now to say the DaVinci Code. When I read it and it had just been Dan Brown had just written it, I think I believe you, right, I believe it. I was like, this is the great because here's what I liked about it is it was a fictional story, but they had so much reality in it, and you're learning about art and all of that. All the settings were real, but there's also a story weaved in, and I was like that, it's great that and that's the most have to read, the most too cliche books, you could say, but it doesn't matter. I agree, it does not matter what it what it seems like. Actually, I read fiction a lot because I read a nonfiction book. You know Tim Ferris, I know who he is. I read a book of his and he was talking about how fiction before bed is like the best thing to just like meditatively disconnect you from the world and help you fall asleep. So it's like I used to be reading these like life self help you kind of books like Morning Night and like before I bet my my gears are still turning. And once he said that I read like five pages of a book before bed at night and I just passed out. It's awesome that works for you, huh. I mean I'm a good so I can fall asleep, and I could fall asleep on this table if I want to the opposite fall asleep. I'm like very for because I know a lot of people like that. I'm very fortunately. Any time after like eight pm, if I lay down, it's all over nonfiction. Favorite book. Um, probably obstacles away, I have to say, because I did get the tattoo. That's true. Um, you have it marked on your body forever. So I gotta hope that author doesn't do any like go off the rails and do anything stupid, because but it is on a banner. You could always I could change what that means. Oh yeah, it could be like it could be like the Ostridges the and then never say what it means. I don't I'll write that book. Um. I just read this book called The Indifferent Stars above which the title got me on its own. But it's about the Donner Party. Um, if you're familiar with it, like that party that moved from the Midwest go hoping to go to California in the eighteen fifties or whatever, and they left too late and they got caught in a snowstorm up in these mountains, and basically months went by and they were living off of like they had like a they ate all their like oxes or whatever was pulling the horses and all that stuff, and they ended up like taking their skin and boiling and water and eating that brought like they were all just starving to death and they ended up resorting to cannibalism. And it's very well documented and they talk about it in The Shining a little bit, so that. I love The Shining, I love the movie. The book, um, and that kind of got me like interested, So I bought the book thinking, Okay, this is cool, this is gonna be gruesome and crazy. But the actual story of it and the facts and it tells it in a way that you can relate to these people as if they're people in your life, it's unbelievable. So that's just really like, I just finished that. It was one of the best books I've ever read. Right now, I'm reading this second Mark Manson All Hope is ft because I read the first one. Oh um, the subtle art, which is which is great. I'm read. Yeah, I'm reading the second one now. Pretty good, pretty good, capitalizing on the first one a little bit or a little bit, just just running with it a little more. Um, I do like it. I also do this thing, why read multiple books and once and a reading together too. And I'm also reading Hillbilly Elergy, which Adam Hamburg gave me, which I never read. Him just was talking about that there. He was like, you got to read it. We went to watch Arkansas game, so he gave it to me. I'm reading that. I'm reading the Ben Folds biography because I love Ben Folds. UM. And then my favorite book, and it's was written in the late eighteen hundreds. But have you read How to Win Friends and Influence Others? I'm very familiar, but I have not actually sat down with it. Great. It's great in the way that most of it still holds up today and it was written a hundred years ago, is it? What is it like? A little bit of the style of it is like, well, a lot of the references, the references right are like not like today yesterday, Churchill said, And you're like, what that wasn't yesterday. So there's some of that. But I read that once a year, so that there are two books I read every year that um, How to Win Friends and Influence Others? And I messed up the title, and then I um every year I read um the Four Agreements. I read that. No, I don't Oh, it's so short. It'll change you for like a week, It'll change you. So that's why you read it every year. It's great. It's like, the thing that I take from it is, don't sell it real quick. To me. Well, first of all's really short. So even if you invest in if bad, it's over and you're like, well, Bobby's an idiot, you get into it the rest same reason I got in to cheer, like I'm gonna show them how much it sucks. I'll read I look at that. UM. Never take anything personal in business ever, ever, And there's a whole thing about that, because we work and we're alongside people, we're running parallel, we're crossing with and we're taking a lot of things personal. But we don't know where people are coming from, we don't know why they're doing it, we don't know their scenario. We're just seeing everything from ours. And so that is something that is just you read it and it really does adjust for a while how you handle all of your relationships. Um, but it's sure if you do read it, let me know. You can read it in two days. It's like that kind of that kind of book. I read the Notebook in one day. That's fiction I read and loved, except it's not fiction in my heart. I didn't read it. Did you not know? In the beginning? The notebook that what that? It was them in the end. In the beginning I read it when I was like nineteen, I No, I didn't. I'm an idiot. One of my friends brought it. Why I read it one day? I didn't put it down. I'm not a big Are you a big guess? Or when you start something, do you guess what's going to happen later? Do you try to? Yes? Because I spend too much time doing that, And then I get two stores. I'm chasing two different stories in the real kind? Which one of my on? It's like which one ends up being better? Usually though the one they wrote okay, yeah, mine usually has an alien or talking about dogs. I can explain a lot that plot hole. So those those books, I feel like some of them make me feel better only when I'm reading them, and some of them I actually take things from. And that's the big difference for me with like those like I keep saying self help, that's it's like a dated term for them, but like I don't know, enhanced life productivity books whatever, you want to call them. So I wrote one of those, right, and it well, But I call mine a motivational book. That's that's a really good way. I don't even know if that's a term that is that that makes more sense, But I would say my my second one is called fail until You Don't is a motivational book. But I don't take offense. I don't think it's self help. Well, not not even offense. It's just I just feel like the connotation with self help is kind of like, hey, you're definitely wrong with you, but we do well, except we don't. Because if everybody hasn't wrong with him, nobody has anything wrong with the If everyone is broken, no one is broken, because there's no such thing as broken. If universally we're all the same and broken, that's not broken. So no matter what motivate, you can motivate your motivational the book's motivational. There we go me the book. Instead of saying it's it's it's help for being broken, it's you're motivating whether you're broken or not. Boom, Yes, But I don't think we're broken. No, we're not, except we all are, which makes none of us we're not. But we totally therapist hates me sometimes because I'll go in to be like, but here's the thing, Like what you what were you philosophizing to right now? You're paying me a hundred and twenty five bucks an hour to be a philosophy. Um, so you are a Pats fan, I am like big, So I'm gonna predict what's happening with Tom Brady and this is this is gonna live forever. So you're you're on the record here right now. The day is January. We're recording this. We don't know where Tom Brady is going to go, but being a Pats fan, where does he spend his final year or two? I spend maybe an hour every day thinking this through, and I come to a definitive conclusion of what's going to happen. And then a little tidbit pops up on my phone and I question everything. I don't know if I can guess, do you. I'm gonna just do it for sport. You don't have to. I'll guess and you can tell me if you agree or not. I think I don't think there's any way he leaves New England this year. I think they put some weapons around him. I think you stay because I don't think he goes to San Diego. They can't win. I don't think he goes to Oakland. He's not going to Indianapolis. I think you just start peeling away his options. He's not going to Dallas and so so do you think he's doing all this talk just to play mind games and hope he gets what he wants in New England? He was probably open if teams today. Again, this could really bit me in the butt because we're just talking about this life. Like the charger said today, we're not going back to Phil Rivers. And so he already moved, has already moved to Florida. I heard right, and and today officially they're like but to be fair, Brady packed his crap up and moved out of his house too, But I heard conflicting stories on that. If you really and his trainer moved too, I know there's a lot. It's it's dark, and I like the Patriots, like I didn't go in Boston like you did. But I like teams that win and and continue winning, and teams sometimes they don't like them for a couple of years. There's like a threshold when I'm like Okay, we get it. You're you're good two or three years, but after you get like four or five years, I'm like, oh, just respect now, like I respect the fact that you can continue win. I think he stays, and I think that Robert Kraft probably goes. We don't want him to retire anywhere else. He's seriously looking. He probably really looking. But I think they put a copy. You can't just throw it to one Edelman. But he wants more money and we're already paying like our defensive ton I think, and we have like a bunch of other like Antonio Brownson needs to get paid, and there's all these weird things, and then I'm in jail, and then I'm afraid of like this, remember this filming thing that them getting and recently like if they get if he leaves. Let's just say, let's put it this way. If Brady leaves and the filming thing comes down and we lose like a first round pick, or I'm going to just stop watching football. That's where I'm both hit you in the balls at the same time. Brady, I'm so afraid it's gonna hit one weekend and I'm just gonna be like I just gonna start watching rugby. But the Bengals they were filming sin Sanatie if I'm going from memory right, yes, which makes even less sense, but keep going right, and I believe the Bengals organization, and it all came out that they weren't really filming. Did you see the video that they got leaked of it? Though? What did it look like they were filming? It didn't look good at least not the astros. You could be an astros. That's worse. I'm glad that's taking the heat of all of it right now. That's bad. That's really bad. The mic, the your piece and the thing, the buzzer, the whole thing. Remember remember I remember what's that the short dude when he hit the home RN he was holding this thing that is incriminating. He's running. That's the Netflix documentary already on that. He's like, don't tell much, don't tell because he's got of When when he did that, I was like, that's weird. Is he's just superstitious or well? What he said was his you know, he's very modest. I know what he said. I'm not buying any of that. Did you write today I wrote today? Anything good? Uh? Yeah, it's cool, we're we haven't finished it yet. I like, I like taking my time this year. This year is my don't just rush to get a song done year. Not that I do that normally, but we're gonna We're gonna finish another day and make it the best that it can be. What's right? What's it to you? Like? What's the goal? Um? Just um, just keep rolling and use the good energy and like another thing from a book that the twenty rule. Are you familiar with that? Like you get eighty percent of your benefits basically from t of your whatever you do kind of thing. Um, So I'm just trying to find what that of my life is that's the most productive and just focus on that. I kind of can sometimes get lost and like his song might not be that great, but I'm really determined to make the demos sound better. So the song, it's just like I gotta cut ties with things that aren't perfect and just work on what is the best focus? Maybe that's the word. Any goal, like specific goal you'd like to hit this year? Trop of that triple you get that that they all three number one? I would I don't really look at things in terms of that. I've I've never been a big planner of like my one year plan, my five year plan ten. I've never been that kind of guy. I've always just on a feeling. Like I joined the band on a whim. I I skipped, I left high school early. I joined it. That worked out for me. I I felt the need to move to l A. I felt they need to move to Nashville. Just always have done the thing and followed kind of my passion and found what I need. So, um, not any big like. I mean, I could say I want like ten number ones this year. That's a cool goal, but like, don't really look at it in terms of that. All right, let's let's recap what we've learned. We've done a lot. We've talked books. And you have a tattoo of a book. I think that is a bad A tattoo of someone reading a book where oh she is reading a book that I don't know. Interesting. Um, So we talked books, we talked Patriots. If Brady leaves and you lose a first rounder or are find a bunch of money, that's just my depressed minds. You're gonna I know we're good. I love Brady, I love the Pats. They owe me nothing. They've done everything for me at the best childhood growing up watching that, I'm good love them. Would you rather the Pats win a Super Bowl and have to vacate it or not win one at all, win it and have to give it back? Not that, not win at all. We're good. We're good, clean slate if if all we get is this, we have a little dark period for a while. I'm fine with that famous last words. Until you're deep in the dark period, I know then it's I've lived a dark Perido's back football fan hard, I've lived in the dark period. I vicariously lived through that because I think about Adam every time it's on and Justin Moore. All of us are big we I mean, I can feel. I can't feel for you, but I can understand a little bit, So I'm sorry. We all go to games together like that's a tight knit group of where they I don't. I'm not a big college person. They were good like what years ago? Right, well were they ever? Like dominant in the sixties? We want a national championship and then we did pretty well in the Southwest Conference back when we were te toddlers. We were very close with Bob Patrino. We're one game away from the national championship. And then he got in trouble for hooking up with the girl that worked with him. Dude beat him up that worked in the administration because that was his fiancee. The whole thing he got run out, program started over. We haven't been success. Is that worse or is cheating in the game worse? I believe there's cheating in the game at all points, all the time. So when it comes out, it's just everyone was doing it kind of thing. We are caught. We did. I wish we would cheat more. I would be honest, because we still I'd like a little cheating. If it leaves with a little victory, I'll take it. It works, Yeah, okay, I see, I see that. I know, and then let the haters hate. I get I have no winning. We're the greatest sports and that sucks. I don't like being a good sport. I like money sometimes. Um so, and we're gonna get boys that goes back together and you're gonna play on the morning show. Love that. Um I'm gonna take two because probably you think me taking two percent? You guys an ba together the first one, No, no, no no, no, no, no, the original first one love love that and Mike, anything else that we learned here today, I feel like we've got a good one. Anything else. You don't make as much money producing as writing a hit song, but you do make more money producing than writing a song, because most songs you write you don't get any money for. Yeah, it's it's all the numbers game. But this this job, you gotta do it for the past. You gotta do it for the love. If I only cared about money, I would have done something else said I truly it sounds cheesy, but I really love waking up and just seeing what happens every day. I really do love it. Look you sound like Russell Dickerson. That guy wakes up and it's like the world is great. No, I don't mean alright. I usually wake up and Michael, I have to do this all over again, Russell. I love that guy. He wakes up and it's like he's got he's got energy. Yeah, it's amazing. I also, Mike, just send me this note to the bold type has a ninety percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes. Dude, crazy right, Yeah that's high. That's yeah, that's extremely high. And tell Katie said, hello, I will all right, there we go. This has been a good one episode. And follow Paul Paul b LG on Instagram and Twitter. Paul b LG on Instagram and Twitter. And as long as you're b LG, it's always a lie, it's a lie. It's always breathing, because boys, that girl is always right there my fingertips, Hey, Mike, would you before would you give me a little more of the Great Escape? I want to hear it back to my ears out here and on my board's dead. Oh well, I will sing it there forget. Yes, little I'm gonna blow. I got to go on the air tomorrow with a blowing boy. Alright, Episode five. Thank you very much. We'll see you guys next time.