Former Twins GM Thad Levine

00:00:04
Speaker 1: All right, bad Leban's going to join us in a moment. He's already checked in, so we'll get ready for him coming up. We have a lot to cover with the Minnesota Twinkies.

00:00:14
Speaker 2: When did he leave Minnesota? Got a look?

00:00:17
Speaker 1: I mean in the past six months or so, you can ask him about he's live, he's with us. Bad Lebin joining us. So hired by the Twins as SVP and GM in November twenty sixteen. Has a podcast called Rosters to Rings that you should check out and that AJ just asked, when officially did you leave? So we can do the chronological order of the career in our head.

00:00:38
Speaker 3: I left after last season, so this is my first season of being a free agent sabbatical. I've and joined the heck out of it.

00:00:45
Speaker 2: Oh I love that.

00:00:46
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I want to start with the juice here, and I appreciate the time. The Twins are super popular right now over this last week they are selling. I know they've been competitive for a long period of time. They're going to take a step back right now. What have you seen? Just you're a free agent, you're on the outside, but you were in the thick with all of these players for a long period of time. Most of the guys moving you acquired. What do you think of what they've done so far?

00:01:11
Speaker 3: You know, I think we went into the season or they went into the season. I probably shouldn't say we and.

00:01:15
Speaker 2: We, well, we sorry about that.

00:01:17
Speaker 4: Agent.

00:01:19
Speaker 3: First of all, I should say this, like Scott, you do a great job as a point guard on the show. A tremendous watching you guys and Eric. You and I never crossed paths, but I always heard exceptional things about your chemistry, your culture, and your makeup.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate that.

00:01:34
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you that I really appreciate that, and obviously great to have you on here for the first time.

00:01:39
Speaker 4: Miss Oh.

00:01:43
Speaker 1: He said, I hate the white socks. That's what he said.

00:01:46
Speaker 2: That's what he said. We're going to get into our history later. Let's focus on trade. First.

00:01:51
Speaker 4: He say something nice about you.

00:01:53
Speaker 1: First, he's got something.

00:01:54
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:01:54
Speaker 3: So I also wanted to apologize for AJ when I worked for Texas before you were with Texas. I think Vicente hit you every time we played, and he should have apologized to you. But I'm certainly apologizing to you today for that.

00:02:07
Speaker 5: Well, you know, every time he didn't hit me, I went deep off of him, So it was either hit me or I was hitting a homer, So I can't.

00:02:13
Speaker 2: I know, you have to choose one or the other.

00:02:15
Speaker 3: I think the man had a little funny stuff in his hair that he may have used as an excuse for the ball slipping from time to time.

00:02:23
Speaker 5: I know he hit me twice in one game one time, and Hawk went down allegedly into the clubhouse after him.

00:02:28
Speaker 2: No security wouldn't let him in there. So yes, certain.

00:02:33
Speaker 3: Slightly funny story about him was that Kevin Millwood at one point said if he had his spikes on in the dugout he hit Kurt Suzuki when he was playing for the A's. He said he would have charged the mound to fight Pitty at that point, which would have been epic to have your own teammate charge the mound to fight.

00:02:49
Speaker 2: You about let me put my GM quarter zip on.

00:02:56
Speaker 1: Okay, well while you do it so that we don't.

00:02:59
Speaker 3: Mess up, tell you so I get getting back to to your actual question. You know, I think that the team went into the season with high expectations. They were hoping to contend and compete in the American League Central. The season hasn't gone quite to plan. I think they took a bold step here because they're still within fighting distance of the wild card. But they made an executive call here, which is they didn't want to straddle the fence. And I think from an executive standpoint, you always aspire to do one of two things. One is you're trying to build for the today. You know, to try to win today, and so you're buying, or you're trying to sell and try to win tomorrow. I think the toughest spot to be is that when you feel like you're standing still, because when you're standing still, I think people are running past you. So I give them a ton of credit. They're making real moves here, and I think the plan, originally, i'm sure, was to really focus on the guys who had expiring contracts with them, But as they made their calls, my guess is that that there was a lot of interest expressed in other players, and you've seen them trade two of them. Rock Stewart was traded very recently to the Dodgers. He has controlled beyond this year. And the bigger deal, of course, was John Durant, who they traded who has controlled through twenty twenty seven. Those deals usually take place because you may be calling another team and saying, hey, listen, we're open to talking about some of our guys with expiring contracts, and you know they have a few of those guys if you left to trade, probably Danny Coolom, Willie Castroid. Keep an eye on those two guys, for sure. But then Dave Dombrowski comes in calls and really gets aggressive on Joe on Duran. I don't know because I'm not there, but I do wonder if the unfortunate news that we heard about Emmanuel Klasse the other day. I'm sure that only intensified the interest in Joe on Duran. They probably didn't start this process with the intent of trading Joe on Durant. They probably weren't necessarily shopping him around, but I think teams started calling, they got super aggressive, and they got to a point where they required two top one hundred prospects for him, and I think that was just so far above the bar that they decided to press go. So I give him a lot of credit for, you know, not straddling the that's the easiest thing to do, I think would be to stand still and try to stay in this thing. I think they're making active steps to trying to help the team and then not so just at future. I would expect that they're going to hold on to most of the guys they could control beyond this year because I think they'll try to contend again as soon as next season.

00:05:16
Speaker 5: Okay, well, then the next question is how good are the prospects are getting back?

00:05:20
Speaker 2: And if I.

00:05:21
Speaker 5: Mean the Twins, listen, we know my feelings on the Twins. I love my time in Minnesota and I love what the Twins do well. I've always said that, but the Twins the last couple of years have kind of been the favorites to win this division. You were there for a couple last year, especially when it didn't happen. So why are they doing this now? And how good are the guys they are getting back and can they help them soon in the future to help Twins fans stop crying about how they never do anything.

00:05:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, and aj, I think we all have to be accountable to the decisions we made and the impact on the franchise. And I think you nailed it. You know, each of the last three seasons, the Twins were preseason picked to win the division, not by a huge margin, but they were picked to be the favorite in the division. They'll end up winning the division once. Last year, as you referenced, unfortunately, there was a really a bad end of the season. It was an epic decline. I think at some point in the season we had prohibitive favorites to make the playoffs and the team ultimately fell short of that, and then this season again fell short. And so I think you've got to really look yourself in the mirror and say, maybe the best laid plans here haven't worked out, and so the current constitution of this roster isn't taking us where we need to go. We have to look ourselves in the mirror. We have to hold ourselves accountable to that. We've got to make decisions that change rather than continue to do the same thing and expect some different outcomes. So, you know, I think a lot is made with the Twins about the fact that three of the most talented players on the team have unfortunately been snake bit with some injuries over.

00:06:46
Speaker 4: Their careers, Royce Lewis, Carlos Korey.

00:06:49
Speaker 3: And Byron Buxton. And you know, I think a lot there's a lot of levied criticism against us about Hey, how do you build a team around three guys that you just don't know are going to be on the field as much. It wasn't like that was plan a that we were planning on taking on such extreme health risk. I think the only one of.

00:07:06
Speaker 4: Those three guys who really we knew.

00:07:07
Speaker 3: Had significant health risk was Byron. The other two guys kind of it's somewhat manifested after we invested in them. But by the same token, they have tremendous upside talent. But nonetheless, here's where the franchise is, which is in three consecutive years, they had probably slightly higher expectations in what were meant two years ago. They ended up winning a playoff series at home, which was really important for the franchise after losing as many playoff games in a row as they had. But they have fallen short and aggregate, and so they're making changes. They're making substantive changes. How good those players are who they've acquired, you know, I think I'm sure that the scouts would tell you that they're great. I do know that a lot of them are pretty young, so they're going to be a couple of years away. The farm system itself is a very solid farm system, so it's adding to that and maybe giving them opportunities to spend some of that prospect capital to go buy and buy as soon as this offseason potentially. But you know, another factor involved with the Twins right now is that they're up for sale, and so I'm not sure how much pressure is being levied behind closed doors right now that could be impacting some of these decisions about getting a little bit more aggressive about selling today just due to the fact that the team's up for sale. That's something I don't know, But those are things that you know, the GM and the President of Baseball Operations over there would never say publicly, but those are things that we had to deal with. You know, when you're in those seats, those are some of the pressures and factors that go into some of your decisions that you wouldn't have otherwise expected when.

00:08:32
Speaker 6: You're sitting in that GMC, when you're sitting there and there's discussions about building your team, whether it's analytically, I like this guy for the clubhouse, Roco has a connection. Are the words world series discussed or the world? Are the words playoffs? Because the al Central is kind of mess so we're just going to make sure we get a little bit better than everybody else to make the playoffs, and then hey, see what happens.

00:08:59
Speaker 3: Eric, I think it's a great philosophical question about how we approach decision making because I remember, you know, you would always do these offseason speaking engagements at the local Kiwanis club or whatever, and they'd say how many games are your team going to win? And I would always answer it, our goal is to win at least one more than the team in second place, because we wanted to win our division. We wanted to somewhat control our own destiny. Especially with today's playoff format, you want to play home playoff games. But I'm not sure I've ever perfectly subscribed to the theory that once you get to the playoffs anything can happen. You know, I think you need to be very talented. I think you need to be healthy. I do think you need to be a little bit lucky at times when you're playing in the playoffs, because at that point every team is exceptionally talented. But I don't think you want to walk into the playoffs as the least talented group and expect great outcomes. So I would say that philosophically, I wanted to win, you know. I wanted to be in the in an opportunity to win and to prevail and to be a prohibitive favorite when it came to the playoffs. I always felt like the best time to make a sign magnificant acquisition at the deadline was when you were going to win your division, and now you're setting your team up to succeed and excel and extend a playoff front. I don't want to try to buy my way into the playoffs and limp in and have a chance to maybe get knocked out in the first round. When it says ninety percent playoff chances next to my team's name come July thirty, first, I want to add a stud to that group so that we can really vault our chances forward to win when we're in the playoffs and ultimately get a chance to play in the World Series. So that would be the approach I would want to take. I do understand the theory about, hey, once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen. You do sometimes see teams you know extend themselves in the playoffs who maybe weren't quite as talented, and you all of sudden find them. Maybe in the World Series, but more often than not, the best teams are winning once they get in the playoffs. I want to be the general manager of the team that is the most talented.

00:10:55
Speaker 2: All right, I have two questions Forere you have to let you go.

00:10:57
Speaker 5: One, How handicapped were you the last two seasons because by the ownership with the Twins? Because twenty three you guys did nothing, still won the division, won your first playoff series in Forever. Last year, again you guys did nothing, and I hate to say this, but kind of collapse at the end after having a ninety percent chance to make the playoffs. How handicapped were you? Because you said, if you're a ninety percent chance, you want to make the big move. You guys did nothing. How handicapped are you? Buy ownership?

00:11:22
Speaker 3: So you know, I was told rumors that if you come on the show that AJ asked tough questions.

00:11:28
Speaker 2: Oh wait till the next one, Wait till the next one.

00:11:31
Speaker 4: Is the next one about the idea? Is there anything to do about Padita on the horizon? No?

00:11:35
Speaker 3: No, the quartership is bringing out the best in you here on the on the executive side of things. So hey, listen. I think I'm going to answer this as diplomatically but as also insightfully as I can, which is to say, when you enter a season, typically ownership gives you very clear understanding of what the payroll parameters are going to be for the season. It's then somewhat up to the front office group to determine how much do we want to leave in reserve for the trade deadline in the event that we're winning and we can add players. Now, the hope always is that if the team's doing well, you're going to be drawing attendance, maybe beyond what your expectations were, and maybe you'll have more money to spend than you even thought you would. You know, one thing that has happened in this marketplace is attendance hasn't necessarily climbed. It hasn't even necessarily held over the last couple of years, for reasons I'm not perfectly sure I can put my finger on. You know, I think we're far enough removed hopefully from COVID and the George Floyd incident, but there's still, you know, like a lack of resurgence of fan interest downtown to watch our games. So the revenue probably wasn't exactly what was projected. It left us at the trade deadline probably being a little bit more conservative.

00:12:45
Speaker 4: Than we otherwise would have been.

00:12:47
Speaker 3: But I also thinks there's a responsibility of honestly assessing where your team is and are you really poised to strike in the postseason, versus whether or not that you are that genuine one move away. I think we both did determined we didn't have the resources to necessarily make that move, but also that it wasn't necessarily the time to really push ownership into an uncomfortable position based upon our projections of how the team.

00:13:10
Speaker 4: Would do if it got into the playoffs at that time.

00:13:13
Speaker 2: Okay, the last one before you go.

00:13:15
Speaker 5: First of all, I think you should be in the game because I think you're good at your job, But you have one made. You've made one huge mistake in your career, and it wasn't bringing me back to Texas in twenty fourteen.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: So listen, we all can't be perfect.

00:13:26
Speaker 5: We all have our one miss and that was you not bringing me back in twenty fourteen.

00:13:29
Speaker 2: I don't know why, I don't care why, but that was your mistake.

00:13:31
Speaker 5: Then.

00:13:32
Speaker 3: Well, so AJL, I will say this one thing, We didn't know when we didn't bring you back, was that you were going to curse us, because I'm sure you didn't follow the twenty fourteen Rangers, but we led the major leagues and days on the AL we had, I think twenty one hundred days on the AL as a roster group. So I don't know what type of voodoo dolls you had somewhere, but you were sticking a lot of pins in and it was it worked against us dramatically.

00:13:56
Speaker 4: You know what, one thing, Age, I've been listening to your show pretty religiously over the last week or so, just because I find you guys very informative and you bring a great insight from a player's perspective, and you know, as I said, Scott, I think asked a ton of great questions, has great insight for both you and Eric and some of the crew you bring on.

00:14:14
Speaker 2: One thing that I.

00:14:15
Speaker 3: Thought you guys were talking about the other day that I just wanted to comment on, was, you know, I do think the way negotiations have taken place have changed in my tenure, and one of the biggest changes was, you know, when Aja, you guys, you and Eric started your career, the average general manager was a little bit more like Kevin Towers and Jim Hendry and Omar and I and guys like that. They were very open when you called them. They would tell you exactly what they were looking for, exactly what they were prepared to do to acquire those players, and they were pretty damn aggressive. Today's GM is a little bit different, you know. Negotiations have changed dramatically now. I think you have to assess is somebody seeking the best deal they can get, and when they do that, they tend not to share a lot of information with you. They have a long list of players that could satisfy their needs, are very judicious about it versus the GM who's hunting a good player. And that's the guy who gets on the phone with you. It's Dave Dombrowski and he says, he I want John duranm That's who I want. What does it take to get him? And he's going to negotiate with you until he gets the player. It's just changed very dramatically, and I think it ties into the question you just asked me, Aja about how much you go for it at the deadline. I'm looking at some of the teams out there right now, and saying, you know, are they taking aggressive steps towards winning or are they taking steps towards just making prudent trades that won't hurt them in the future. I think now's the time. If you have the talent, if you have the odds, it's time to go for it rather than necessarily making just prudent moves that help you on the margins. You want guys who can help you get to the playoffs, but you ideally want guys who can help you when you.

00:15:47
Speaker 4: Do get to the playoffs. The best players do both, but I.

00:15:50
Speaker 3: Think now's not the time to just get players who help you get there. You want players who can help you win once you do.

00:15:56
Speaker 1: It's a great call, and I'd love to get into it more. Why said he regrets it and have a n not.

00:16:04
Speaker 2: Because of the It's fine. I get it. It's fine. I get it. It's fine, we get it. We have to go to break I get it. It's cool. We'll talk off record, we'll get the real then I'll come on here and I'll tell this.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: Well, why why they didn't bring you back?

00:16:16
Speaker 2: The reason I was told was beat us. But that's fine.

00:16:19
Speaker 1: Wait, you don't want to wait?

00:16:20
Speaker 2: We don't have time. We gotta go. He knows the reason.

00:16:24
Speaker 3: I can come back for a segment later where you can grill me.

00:16:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, we know.

00:16:29
Speaker 1: Was it something gucy or it's like.

00:16:31
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. I mean, I know why. I'm pretty sure I know why, but we have to go hunt Dad.

00:16:35
Speaker 2: You know, I love you. You know I think you're great at your job.

00:16:37
Speaker 5: So I hope you get back in baseball soon, and when you do, you can hire Crats to be your assistant bullpen catcher.

00:16:45
Speaker 3: Do his knee still have it in him? It was great being on the show with you, guys. I really appreciate what you guys do. Enjoyed listening was it was a pleasure being on with you guys.

00:16:53
Speaker 2: Bad thank you.

00:16:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was great. We'd love to have you back, so we'll work on booking you again. And in the meantime, for everyone that's check this out, make sure you listen to what Dad's got with his pod as well. Give it a look and a listen. I'm sure you can find it wherever you get your pods.

00:17:08
Speaker 2: Dad will catch you soon.

00:17:10
Speaker 3: Look forward to it, guys,