Podcast Short: Exploring Endophytes for Healthier Plants with Maizie Koentopp
This is the first time we've had a high schooler on the podcast! Maizie Koentopp, a 9th grader in Chicago, conducted a simple yet elegant experiment on buckwheat plants. Motivated by her father's urban farming work and her own concern about climate change, Maizie wanted to test the effect of endophytic bacteria on plant development as an alternative to harmful agrochemicals. She compared seeds inoculated with AEA's BioCoat Gold™ to a non-inoculated control, and found that inoculated seeds (in both sterilized and non-sterilized soil) grew faster, had higher survival rates, and developed more root hairs. If others in Maizie's generation share her curiosity, poise, and scientific rigor, then our future is in good hands."
Additional Resources To read more about her research, click here.
About John Kempf John Kempf is the founder of Advancing Eco Agriculture (AEA). A top expert in biological and regenerative farming, John founded AEA in 2006 to help fellow farmers by providing the education, tools, and strategies that will have a global effect on the food supply and those who grow it.
Through intense study and the knowledge gleaned from many industry leaders, John is building a comprehensive systems-based approach to plant nutrition – a system solidly based on the sciences of plant physiology, mineral nutrition, and soil microbiology.
Support For This Show & Helping You Grow Since 2006, AEA has been on a mission to help growers become more resilient, efficient, and profitable with regenerative agriculture.
AEA works directly with growers to apply its unique line of liquid mineral crop nutrition products and biological inoculants. Informed by cutting-edge plant and soil data-gathering techniques, AEA's science-based programs empower farm operations to meet the crop quality markers that matter the most.
AEA has created real and lasting change on millions of acres with its products and data-driven services by working hand-in-hand with growers to produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and higher profits.
Beyond working on the ground with growers, AEA leads in regenerative agriculture media and education, producing and distributing the popular and highly-regarded Regenerative Agriculture Podcast, inspiring webinars, and other educational content that serve as go-to resources for growers worldwide.
Learn more about AEA's regenerative programs and products: https://www.advancingecoag.com
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1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:01,620 Hi, friends, this is John. 2 00:00:01,740 --> 00:00:02,799 Welcome back to the Region of 3 00:00:02,799 --> 00:00:04,200 Agriculture podcast, where we 4 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,240 have all kinds of fun 5 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,719 conversations related to soil 6 00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:09,080 health and plant health. 7 00:00:09,869 --> 00:00:12,660 And in this in this fascinating 8 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:14,740 world, as we are learning that 9 00:00:15,220 --> 00:00:17,620 plants have brains and they have 10 00:00:17,620 --> 00:00:19,219 the ability to think and to make 11 00:00:19,219 --> 00:00:20,300 informed decisions, 12 00:00:21,100 --> 00:00:21,920 they have 13 00:00:22,449 --> 00:00:24,890 they make very conscious 14 00:00:25,589 --> 00:00:27,030 specific informed decisions 15 00:00:27,030 --> 00:00:28,309 about how to interact with their 16 00:00:28,309 --> 00:00:29,649 environment, how to respond to 17 00:00:29,649 --> 00:00:30,449 different stimulus, 18 00:00:30,870 --> 00:00:32,929 how to associate and 19 00:00:33,270 --> 00:00:35,549 support their microbiome or not. 20 00:00:37,060 --> 00:00:37,859 It's, 21 00:00:37,899 --> 00:00:38,979 we developed this, 22 00:00:40,109 --> 00:00:40,909 we're developing a very 23 00:00:40,850 --> 00:00:43,429 different perspective than what 24 00:00:43,429 --> 00:00:45,310 we have generally collectively 25 00:00:45,310 --> 00:00:46,109 held 26 00:00:47,369 --> 00:00:49,469 historically on the way that 27 00:00:49,469 --> 00:00:50,450 plants interact with their 28 00:00:50,450 --> 00:00:51,289 environment, the way that they 29 00:00:51,289 --> 00:00:52,829 interact with their microbiome. 30 00:00:53,369 --> 00:00:54,450 And of course, the way we move 31 00:00:54,450 --> 00:00:55,890 these boundaries forward is 32 00:00:55,890 --> 00:00:58,210 constantly by researching, 33 00:00:58,609 --> 00:00:59,689 by studying more and trying to 34 00:00:59,689 --> 00:01:00,670 understand how 35 00:01:01,009 --> 00:01:01,990 interactions are happening. 36 00:01:02,109 --> 00:01:03,490 And some of these some 37 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:05,780 of these experiments can be very 38 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:07,680 sophisticated, but often some of 39 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,780 the best discoveries come from 40 00:01:09,780 --> 00:01:11,319 the simple experiments or simple 41 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:12,480 observations out in the field. 42 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:14,599 So for our conversation today, 43 00:01:15,170 --> 00:01:17,609 I'm joined by Maisie Canetop, 44 00:01:17,689 --> 00:01:18,489 who 45 00:01:18,549 --> 00:01:20,450 ran an experiment that 46 00:01:20,790 --> 00:01:23,250 caught our team's attention here 47 00:01:23,250 --> 00:01:24,829 at AEA. And they were delighted 48 00:01:24,829 --> 00:01:25,629 by 49 00:01:25,709 --> 00:01:27,189 the simplicity of the 50 00:01:27,189 --> 00:01:28,670 experiment, the elegance of the 51 00:01:28,670 --> 00:01:29,909 experiment and the results that 52 00:01:29,909 --> 00:01:30,709 came out of it. 53 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:33,579 So Maisie, thank you for being 54 00:01:33,579 --> 00:01:34,500 willing to join me today. 55 00:01:35,129 --> 00:01:36,189 Tell us a little bit about 56 00:01:36,189 --> 00:01:38,010 yourself, your background and 57 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:39,290 the experiment and what inspired 58 00:01:39,290 --> 00:01:40,650 you to run this experiment. 59 00:01:41,409 --> 00:01:42,890 For the past three 60 00:01:43,269 --> 00:01:45,609 years at my middle school, we 61 00:01:45,609 --> 00:01:47,230 have been required to do a 62 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:48,430 Stanford project every year. 63 00:01:48,989 --> 00:01:51,769 and my dad is he works 64 00:01:51,980 --> 00:01:55,340 in like an urban farm and works 65 00:01:55,340 --> 00:01:57,829 to promote farm and 66 00:01:58,209 --> 00:01:59,700 like the 67 00:02:01,019 --> 00:02:02,079 He works in that area. 68 00:02:02,420 --> 00:02:05,109 So I have grown up around always 69 00:02:05,109 --> 00:02:06,390 hearing about that in my house. 70 00:02:06,629 --> 00:02:08,469 And I knew I wanted to explore 71 00:02:08,469 --> 00:02:09,930 something similar to that. 72 00:02:10,689 --> 00:02:14,180 And a huge problem that I 73 00:02:14,180 --> 00:02:15,960 think impacts a lot of young 74 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,579 people is climate change and the 75 00:02:18,579 --> 00:02:19,780 impact on the environment that 76 00:02:19,780 --> 00:02:20,580 humans are having. 77 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:23,340 So I wanted to connect those two 78 00:02:23,340 --> 00:02:24,140 areas. 79 00:02:24,909 --> 00:02:27,430 So I decided with the help of 80 00:02:27,430 --> 00:02:28,849 two soil scientists, 81 00:02:29,170 --> 00:02:31,050 Dr. Akila Martin and Dr. 82 00:02:31,110 --> 00:02:31,910 Israel, 83 00:02:32,099 --> 00:02:35,069 that I wanted to research how we 84 00:02:35,069 --> 00:02:37,370 could exchange the use of 85 00:02:37,370 --> 00:02:38,689 harmful agrochemicals that are 86 00:02:38,689 --> 00:02:41,449 depleting soils and exchange 87 00:02:41,449 --> 00:02:43,430 those for endophytes, 88 00:02:43,969 --> 00:02:44,990 a type of bacteria, 89 00:02:45,389 --> 00:02:46,189 which 90 00:02:45,949 --> 00:02:47,889 instead of depleting soils, 91 00:02:48,030 --> 00:02:50,150 helps regenerate them and 92 00:02:50,150 --> 00:02:50,950 promotes 93 00:02:50,990 --> 00:02:52,909 ecosystem health as well as 94 00:02:52,909 --> 00:02:53,710 plant health. 95 00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:55,129 And so what did your experiment 96 00:02:55,129 --> 00:02:56,129 end up looking like? 97 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:57,680 So the way I started, 98 00:02:58,139 --> 00:02:59,759 I took buckwheat seeds, 99 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:02,639 and I also took soil, and I 100 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,620 sterilized that soil because I 101 00:03:04,620 --> 00:03:06,040 was only testing one type of 102 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,699 bacteria, so I needed to control 103 00:03:07,699 --> 00:03:08,500 the environment. 104 00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:11,790 And I inoculated some seeds, 105 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,719 and I didn't inoculate the other 106 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:15,520 seeds. 107 00:03:15,340 --> 00:03:17,219 And I had four different groups. 108 00:03:17,420 --> 00:03:18,840 I had one group that was the 109 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:19,640 control, 110 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,300 which was the non -inoculated 111 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:23,019 seeds grown in sterilized soil. 112 00:03:23,490 --> 00:03:24,750 I had one group that was 113 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:26,230 inoculated seeds grown in 114 00:03:26,230 --> 00:03:27,030 sterilized soil. 115 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:28,759 I had one group that was 116 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:31,300 inoculated seeds grown in non 117 00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:32,939 -sterilized soil, so soil that 118 00:03:32,939 --> 00:03:34,480 was just collected from my 119 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:35,280 garden. 120 00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:37,400 And then I had a non 121 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:38,200 -sterilized, 122 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:39,540 sorry, 123 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:41,400 non -inoculated seeds grown in 124 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,540 non -sterilized soil. 125 00:03:43,650 --> 00:03:46,000 I proceeded to grow those plants 126 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,400 for different periods of time. 127 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,480 So I had plants growing for two 128 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:50,939 weeks, four weeks, and then 129 00:03:50,939 --> 00:03:51,740 three months. 130 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,060 And after that, 131 00:03:54,569 --> 00:03:56,810 period of time, I would collect 132 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,479 plant samples and clean them 133 00:03:59,479 --> 00:04:02,240 with a mesh to get all the soil 134 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,040 off the roots. 135 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:06,060 And originally, my plan was to 136 00:04:06,060 --> 00:04:08,879 use a software called Rizovision 137 00:04:08,879 --> 00:04:11,460 that analyzes plant root hairs. 138 00:04:11,990 --> 00:04:12,790 But 139 00:04:12,620 --> 00:04:14,060 unfortunately, I didn't have 140 00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:16,740 access to the proper technology 141 00:04:16,740 --> 00:04:18,379 to use that software. 142 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,379 So I ended up having to 143 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,170 engineer my plan and I decided 144 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:27,269 to use a microscope to take 145 00:04:27,269 --> 00:04:28,730 pictures of the roots and then 146 00:04:28,730 --> 00:04:29,990 count the root hairs myself 147 00:04:29,990 --> 00:04:31,569 instead of using the software to 148 00:04:31,569 --> 00:04:32,370 do it for me. 149 00:04:32,670 --> 00:04:34,720 Which ended up taking a little 150 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,240 more time than I had originally 151 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,040 planned 152 00:04:37,079 --> 00:04:40,350 but it ended up it ended up okay 153 00:04:40,350 --> 00:04:43,189 and I discovered after 154 00:04:43,189 --> 00:04:44,689 collecting samples from all my 155 00:04:44,689 --> 00:04:45,490 data 156 00:04:45,980 --> 00:04:48,500 from all four groups that the 157 00:04:48,500 --> 00:04:50,579 plants that were inoculated 158 00:04:50,579 --> 00:04:51,540 overall 159 00:04:53,290 --> 00:04:55,509 despite being in non -sterilized 160 00:04:55,790 --> 00:04:57,569 soil versus sterilized soil, 161 00:04:58,149 --> 00:05:00,149 overall had the most number of 162 00:05:00,149 --> 00:05:00,949 root hairs. 163 00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:02,480 So root hairs are, 164 00:05:03,269 --> 00:05:04,069 unlike a root, 165 00:05:04,389 --> 00:05:06,529 they have little shoots that you 166 00:05:06,529 --> 00:05:07,930 can't see with your eyes, 167 00:05:08,029 --> 00:05:08,829 they're microscopic, 168 00:05:09,189 --> 00:05:12,540 and they allow bacteria to cycle 169 00:05:12,540 --> 00:05:13,340 through the plant. 170 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:15,159 So by measuring root hairs, it 171 00:05:15,159 --> 00:05:16,879 was a good way to see how the 172 00:05:16,879 --> 00:05:18,420 endophytes were actually 173 00:05:18,420 --> 00:05:19,220 impacting the plant. 174 00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:21,709 And I also measured bricks, 175 00:05:21,850 --> 00:05:23,189 which is a way to measure the 176 00:05:23,189 --> 00:05:24,649 sugar level of a plant. 177 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:26,279 or of any liquid. 178 00:05:27,149 --> 00:05:28,329 And I found that, 179 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:29,800 well, 180 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:31,159 originally I thought that the 181 00:05:31,159 --> 00:05:32,180 plants that were inoculated 182 00:05:32,180 --> 00:05:33,939 would have higher brooks levels, 183 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,519 but it turned out they didn't, 184 00:05:35,620 --> 00:05:36,920 which I realized was because 185 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,240 they were using their sugars to 186 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,040 flower, 187 00:05:38,939 --> 00:05:40,480 while the plants that weren't 188 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,319 inoculated still were using 189 00:05:42,319 --> 00:05:44,100 their sugars to produce 190 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:45,680 cotyledons and grow new leaves, 191 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:47,480 which meant that the sugars were 192 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:48,280 more concentrated, 193 00:05:48,740 --> 00:05:49,540 which 194 00:05:49,319 --> 00:05:50,879 in turn supported my original 195 00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:53,379 hypothesis that the inoculated 196 00:05:53,379 --> 00:05:55,040 plants and that the endophytic 197 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,000 bacteria would benefit the 198 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:57,800 plants. 199 00:05:57,100 --> 00:05:59,139 So this is an important point. 200 00:05:59,220 --> 00:06:01,139 Did you observe the plants to be 201 00:06:01,139 --> 00:06:02,180 at different developmental 202 00:06:02,180 --> 00:06:03,480 stages or to develop at 203 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,660 different speeds based on 204 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:05,560 whether they were inoculated? 205 00:06:05,879 --> 00:06:07,540 The inoculated plants, 206 00:06:07,939 --> 00:06:09,180 not only did they develop 207 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:10,959 faster, but they also had a 208 00:06:10,959 --> 00:06:11,879 higher survival rate. 209 00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:12,780 So the plants that weren't 210 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:14,379 inoculated, more of them died 211 00:06:14,379 --> 00:06:15,220 and didn't survive. 212 00:06:16,060 --> 00:06:17,540 The plants that were inoculated 213 00:06:17,540 --> 00:06:20,459 had healthier, fuller leaves and 214 00:06:20,459 --> 00:06:22,120 began to flower faster, while 215 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:22,920 the plants that weren't 216 00:06:22,879 --> 00:06:23,680 inoculated 217 00:06:24,029 --> 00:06:26,189 hadn't started to flower yet by 218 00:06:26,189 --> 00:06:27,430 the time my experiment ended. 219 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:29,959 So even over the course of a 90 220 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:31,379 -day experiment, they were not 221 00:06:31,379 --> 00:06:32,279 yet at the flowering stage, 222 00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:33,480 which is quite slow for 223 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,280 buckwheat. 224 00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:36,220 Yeah. 225 00:06:36,569 --> 00:06:38,250 I think that's also due to the 226 00:06:38,250 --> 00:06:39,990 fact that it was in serum soil, 227 00:06:40,129 --> 00:06:41,350 so there was very little 228 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:42,930 microbial activity. 229 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,279 which wasn't great for the 230 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,079 buckwheat plant. 231 00:06:46,420 --> 00:06:47,279 How significant were the 232 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,759 differences that you observed in 233 00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:49,980 the root hair development? 234 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:51,459 And I'm also curious just about 235 00:06:51,459 --> 00:06:52,699 the overall root biomass. 236 00:06:52,939 --> 00:06:54,860 What did the root biomass and 237 00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:55,660 the root hair development, 238 00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:57,040 how was it different? 239 00:06:57,259 --> 00:06:58,319 And I'm also curious about how 240 00:06:58,319 --> 00:06:59,300 it was different on the 241 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:00,360 sterilized versus the non 242 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:01,160 -sterilized soil. 243 00:07:02,709 --> 00:07:03,509 Yeah, 244 00:07:03,350 --> 00:07:06,170 so I didn't take the biomass of 245 00:07:06,170 --> 00:07:08,409 the roots. I only looked at root 246 00:07:08,409 --> 00:07:09,209 hair growth. 247 00:07:09,699 --> 00:07:11,300 and originally I wanted to 248 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:13,100 measure like the length of root 249 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:14,639 hairs, but I wasn't able to do 250 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:16,360 that without like the software 251 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,459 that I wanted to use, so I 252 00:07:18,610 --> 00:07:20,069 couldn't do that in my 253 00:07:20,069 --> 00:07:20,870 experiment. 254 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:24,819 So the plants grown that were 255 00:07:24,819 --> 00:07:26,959 inoculated in sterile soil 256 00:07:26,959 --> 00:07:27,759 versus 257 00:07:27,819 --> 00:07:30,399 non -inoc, like the non 258 00:07:30,399 --> 00:07:31,939 -inoculated ones in sterile 259 00:07:31,939 --> 00:07:32,740 soil, 260 00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:33,750 they had pretty, 261 00:07:34,149 --> 00:07:34,949 they had like a 262 00:07:35,069 --> 00:07:36,129 pretty similar numbers. 263 00:07:36,269 --> 00:07:37,310 The ones that were inoculated 264 00:07:37,310 --> 00:07:40,110 did have more overall, but they 265 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:41,990 were closely followed by the 266 00:07:41,990 --> 00:07:42,790 ones 267 00:07:42,870 --> 00:07:44,370 that weren't inoculated. 268 00:07:44,589 --> 00:07:46,069 The biggest difference, 269 00:07:46,370 --> 00:07:47,329 even though they had similar 270 00:07:47,329 --> 00:07:48,529 root hairs, the biggest 271 00:07:48,529 --> 00:07:51,089 difference was in the 272 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:54,420 growth that I observed, like how 273 00:07:54,420 --> 00:07:55,220 quickly they developed. 274 00:07:55,990 --> 00:07:58,110 And what was, how would you 275 00:07:58,110 --> 00:07:58,910 describe the differences? 276 00:07:59,069 --> 00:08:00,449 How much more rapidly did the 277 00:08:00,449 --> 00:08:01,350 plants develop that were 278 00:08:01,350 --> 00:08:02,150 inoculated? 279 00:08:01,930 --> 00:08:02,730 What were the, 280 00:08:03,329 --> 00:08:04,389 if you can describe that? 281 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:07,759 They were 282 00:08:08,050 --> 00:08:09,550 very different. 283 00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:10,889 At the end of my experiment, 284 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,980 um, I have, I took photos of the 285 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:15,420 control and the plants that 286 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:16,220 were, 287 00:08:16,459 --> 00:08:17,259 um, 288 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:18,159 the seeds that were, weren't 289 00:08:18,159 --> 00:08:19,659 inoculated and compared them to 290 00:08:19,659 --> 00:08:20,459 the ones that were. 291 00:08:20,819 --> 00:08:22,480 And the plants that weren't 292 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,100 inoculated, they only had like, 293 00:08:24,750 --> 00:08:26,790 like five leaves, and they still 294 00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:29,269 had cotyledons, as I said, and 295 00:08:29,269 --> 00:08:30,829 they weren't flowering, and they 296 00:08:30,829 --> 00:08:31,769 were pretty short, 297 00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:33,189 um, 298 00:08:33,110 --> 00:08:34,450 while the plants that were, they 299 00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:35,590 were tall, like they were like 300 00:08:35,590 --> 00:08:36,750 spilling out of the containers, 301 00:08:37,049 --> 00:08:39,330 and they had many leaves, and 302 00:08:39,330 --> 00:08:40,529 the leaves were fully developed, 303 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:42,409 and they were flowering. 304 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,319 So that was on the sterilized 305 00:08:44,319 --> 00:08:45,799 soil. Was a similar pattern also 306 00:08:45,799 --> 00:08:47,039 true on the non -sterile soil? 307 00:08:47,809 --> 00:08:48,609 Yeah, 308 00:08:48,470 --> 00:08:50,909 they were less developed than 309 00:08:50,909 --> 00:08:52,669 the plants that were inoculated 310 00:08:52,669 --> 00:08:55,090 in the non -sterilized soil, 311 00:08:55,509 --> 00:08:56,309 but 312 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,639 they 313 00:08:58,330 --> 00:09:00,269 were kind of like in the middle 314 00:09:00,269 --> 00:09:01,069 ground. 315 00:09:01,090 --> 00:09:03,990 So they had developed leaves and 316 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:06,680 didn't have cotyledons anymore, 317 00:09:06,819 --> 00:09:09,019 but weren't as far along as the 318 00:09:09,019 --> 00:09:09,960 plants that were inoculated. 319 00:09:10,610 --> 00:09:11,809 The central 320 00:09:12,180 --> 00:09:15,169 thesis or hypothesis that you 321 00:09:15,169 --> 00:09:15,969 were 322 00:09:16,180 --> 00:09:17,620 that your testing method is 323 00:09:17,620 --> 00:09:20,680 based on is you're extrapolating 324 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,980 the presence or the activity 325 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,149 of associated endophytes based 326 00:09:26,149 --> 00:09:27,409 on root hair development 327 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:29,309 in essence. 328 00:09:31,470 --> 00:09:32,950 And I'm sorry, I kind of 329 00:09:32,950 --> 00:09:34,129 distracted you because I asked 330 00:09:34,129 --> 00:09:35,149 about overall root biomass. 331 00:09:35,490 --> 00:09:37,669 But what did you discover in 332 00:09:37,669 --> 00:09:39,450 terms of the root hair 333 00:09:39,450 --> 00:09:40,250 development 334 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:41,799 Did you have substantially more 335 00:09:41,799 --> 00:09:42,599 root hair? 336 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:43,120 How much more? 337 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:45,590 So at the first 338 00:09:46,029 --> 00:09:47,129 point, 339 00:09:48,019 --> 00:09:49,360 the first time that I collected 340 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,159 the 341 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:51,139 root hairs, 342 00:09:51,539 --> 00:09:53,980 the inoculated plants had a 343 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,080 huge amount 344 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:57,479 more. 345 00:09:57,759 --> 00:10:00,309 It was very apparent. 346 00:10:00,809 --> 00:10:02,629 They had triple 347 00:10:04,379 --> 00:10:05,980 the amount of root hairs. 348 00:10:07,009 --> 00:10:08,389 And then as time passed, 349 00:10:09,019 --> 00:10:10,539 the other groups slowly started 350 00:10:10,539 --> 00:10:12,519 to catch up. But the gap, they 351 00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:13,960 were never able to close the 352 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:14,759 gap. 353 00:10:14,809 --> 00:10:15,609 So 354 00:10:15,379 --> 00:10:17,179 during the second 355 00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:18,750 time 356 00:10:20,039 --> 00:10:21,820 area, like the second - So you 357 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:23,279 were collecting at two weeks and 358 00:10:23,279 --> 00:10:24,720 four weeks and then three 359 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,539 months, I think you said? 360 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:26,479 Three months. 361 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:27,500 Yeah. 362 00:10:27,740 --> 00:10:29,559 So at the second time, they had 363 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:31,679 about 300 for 364 00:10:32,190 --> 00:10:32,990 the, 365 00:10:32,990 --> 00:10:34,169 that I counted, like the 366 00:10:34,610 --> 00:10:36,549 roothers, the native microbes 367 00:10:36,549 --> 00:10:38,350 and inoculated, and then this 368 00:10:38,350 --> 00:10:39,149 native microbes. 369 00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:40,809 And then the inoculated plants 370 00:10:40,809 --> 00:10:41,690 had 600. 371 00:10:42,470 --> 00:10:43,649 So it was, 372 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:45,940 almost triple, and then 373 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:48,779 after three months, 374 00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:51,009 the plants that were inoculated 375 00:10:51,319 --> 00:10:54,180 in sterilized soil 376 00:10:54,460 --> 00:10:55,860 versus the plants that were 377 00:10:55,860 --> 00:10:58,120 inoculated in native soil had 378 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:59,819 almost 300 more. 379 00:11:00,529 --> 00:11:03,069 So over time, the gaps slowly 380 00:11:03,069 --> 00:11:05,309 started to close, but the 381 00:11:05,529 --> 00:11:06,809 inoculated plants always had 382 00:11:06,809 --> 00:11:07,609 more fruit. 383 00:11:07,930 --> 00:11:08,730 I 384 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:09,500 think this is a common 385 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:11,419 phenomenon that we observe in 386 00:11:11,419 --> 00:11:13,120 practical application out in the 387 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,240 field, is that 388 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,059 when seeds are inoculated, there 389 00:11:17,059 --> 00:11:17,859 is often this 390 00:11:18,289 --> 00:11:19,769 this early and rapid 391 00:11:19,769 --> 00:11:21,069 proliferation of biology. 392 00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:23,470 And if you have soils that have 393 00:11:23,470 --> 00:11:25,029 where the microbiome is 394 00:11:25,029 --> 00:11:25,829 compromised, 395 00:11:26,430 --> 00:11:28,029 they do have the ability to 396 00:11:28,029 --> 00:11:30,330 recruit microbes from the soil 397 00:11:30,330 --> 00:11:32,250 microbiome, but it just it takes 398 00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:33,830 time to build up that soil, that 399 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:34,950 root microbiome. 400 00:11:35,419 --> 00:11:37,720 and they never fully catch up to 401 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,519 what um so your your 402 00:11:40,519 --> 00:11:41,759 experimental evidence matches 403 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:42,840 very well with what we observe 404 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:43,639 out in the field 405 00:11:45,690 --> 00:11:48,909 so the what was the how 406 00:11:49,899 --> 00:11:51,340 difficult was it to set up this 407 00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:53,000 experiment and to conduct it 408 00:11:55,039 --> 00:11:55,919 um i 409 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,179 had so when i started my 410 00:11:59,179 --> 00:12:00,879 experiment i started it like 411 00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:03,799 months more than three months 412 00:12:03,799 --> 00:12:06,080 before like the deadline and 413 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,740 I had to repeat the experiment 414 00:12:08,740 --> 00:12:09,539 three 415 00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:11,759 times, because in the beginning, 416 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:13,440 my soil 417 00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:16,269 had the pH wasn't 418 00:12:16,269 --> 00:12:19,330 the right pH for the buckwheat. 419 00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:21,129 And many of them died, and I 420 00:12:21,129 --> 00:12:22,289 didn't have enough to collect 421 00:12:22,289 --> 00:12:23,429 the number of samples that I 422 00:12:23,429 --> 00:12:24,229 needed. 423 00:12:24,190 --> 00:12:25,809 So then I started over, 424 00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:27,710 and I repeated the same process 425 00:12:27,710 --> 00:12:28,509 again. 426 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,720 And the same thing happened, 427 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:30,860 where they didn't survive. 428 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,620 So I did it a third time, 429 00:12:33,139 --> 00:12:35,580 and I changed the pH by adding 430 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:36,379 sulfur. 431 00:12:36,870 --> 00:12:38,470 because buckwheat prefers more 432 00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:39,269 acidic soils. 433 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:40,879 And 434 00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:43,009 this time I did have a lot of 435 00:12:43,220 --> 00:12:44,019 samples. 436 00:12:44,799 --> 00:12:45,799 I also think that 437 00:12:46,309 --> 00:12:48,190 it was difficult for the 438 00:12:48,190 --> 00:12:49,769 buckwheat to survive in 439 00:12:49,769 --> 00:12:51,430 completely sterilized soil, 440 00:12:51,819 --> 00:12:53,500 which contributed, 441 00:12:53,860 --> 00:12:55,850 I think, to the higher 442 00:12:55,850 --> 00:12:58,990 death rate of the buckwheat 443 00:12:58,990 --> 00:12:59,789 plants. 444 00:13:00,590 --> 00:13:03,870 So it was difficult to have 445 00:13:03,870 --> 00:13:06,110 to redo my whole experiment 446 00:13:06,110 --> 00:13:07,990 multiple times to get the 447 00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:08,870 results that I wanted. 448 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:12,519 it was 449 00:13:13,289 --> 00:13:15,330 another challenge for me was 450 00:13:15,610 --> 00:13:17,649 taking all the pictures of all 451 00:13:17,649 --> 00:13:18,990 the root samples because I had 452 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,620 I had a lot of groups I had a 453 00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:23,919 lot of root samples and I was 454 00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:25,860 taking I had to take like 455 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:27,899 like 456 00:13:28,250 --> 00:13:31,389 70 between like 50 and 70 photos 457 00:13:31,389 --> 00:13:33,889 of each sample and then count 458 00:13:33,889 --> 00:13:35,049 the number of root hairs for 459 00:13:35,049 --> 00:13:36,570 every single photo for every 460 00:13:36,570 --> 00:13:37,960 single root. 461 00:13:38,779 --> 00:13:41,039 And that took a lot of time. 462 00:13:41,179 --> 00:13:42,580 So that was challenging, 463 00:13:43,299 --> 00:13:44,099 but 464 00:13:44,220 --> 00:13:46,759 it worked out in the end, so. 465 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:48,379 That sounds like a lot of 466 00:13:48,379 --> 00:13:49,179 counting anyway. 467 00:13:49,950 --> 00:13:50,750 Yeah. 468 00:13:50,710 --> 00:13:52,169 Yeah, it was a lot of testing. 469 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:56,029 So you mentioned the unexpected 470 00:13:56,029 --> 00:13:58,370 results in regards to the 471 00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:59,909 variation in BRICS response 472 00:13:59,909 --> 00:14:00,909 versus the plants that were 473 00:14:00,909 --> 00:14:02,009 flowering and those that were 474 00:14:02,009 --> 00:14:02,809 not. 475 00:14:03,129 --> 00:14:04,590 Were there any other results 476 00:14:04,590 --> 00:14:06,490 that surprised you or that were 477 00:14:06,490 --> 00:14:07,289 unexpected? 478 00:14:07,769 --> 00:14:10,049 It surprised me that 479 00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:12,230 the plants that 480 00:14:12,669 --> 00:14:14,649 were grown in native microbes 481 00:14:14,649 --> 00:14:15,449 were, 482 00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:17,079 like 483 00:14:16,850 --> 00:14:18,549 how you described earlier, like 484 00:14:18,549 --> 00:14:20,269 they started with 485 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,279 lower number of root hairs and 486 00:14:23,279 --> 00:14:24,620 it surprised me how they were 487 00:14:24,620 --> 00:14:26,980 able to catch up over time. 488 00:14:28,049 --> 00:14:28,849 But 489 00:14:30,019 --> 00:14:32,259 my hypothesis in the end was 490 00:14:32,259 --> 00:14:34,220 proven correct, so although the 491 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:35,620 BRICS number surprised me, 492 00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:39,389 and the initial to 493 00:14:39,389 --> 00:14:41,809 final numbers of plants grown 494 00:14:41,809 --> 00:14:43,950 without the inoculant surprised 495 00:14:43,950 --> 00:14:44,750 me, 496 00:14:45,169 --> 00:14:45,969 the 497 00:14:46,379 --> 00:14:48,740 overall results supported what I 498 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:49,720 initially thought. 499 00:14:50,919 --> 00:14:53,039 I think it's worth noting for 500 00:14:55,190 --> 00:14:56,049 for the benefit of our 501 00:14:56,049 --> 00:14:56,849 listeners. 502 00:14:56,730 --> 00:14:59,059 We're describing this experiment 503 00:14:59,059 --> 00:15:00,740 in terms of the endophytic 504 00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:02,200 microbes. And obviously you're 505 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,539 measuring root hair development 506 00:15:03,539 --> 00:15:06,080 with, I think, based on Dr. 507 00:15:06,159 --> 00:15:07,259 James White's work and other 508 00:15:07,259 --> 00:15:08,680 people's work. Those certainly 509 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,399 are associated with the presence 510 00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:11,600 of endophytes within the plant 511 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:12,740 and their activity. 512 00:15:14,529 --> 00:15:16,069 And also the 513 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:17,569 product that you were using was 514 00:15:17,569 --> 00:15:18,889 not just endophytic microbes 515 00:15:18,889 --> 00:15:19,689 alone. 516 00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:20,870 It was also mycorrhizal fungi 517 00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:21,669 and other things. 518 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:24,379 And this year, 519 00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:27,340 I'm building off of my project 520 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:28,480 from last year, 521 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:31,299 and I'm taking individual 522 00:15:31,299 --> 00:15:33,580 strains of endophytes, 523 00:15:33,899 --> 00:15:35,659 specifically Bacillus species, 524 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,820 like Bacillus subtilis and 525 00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:38,840 Thuringiensis, 526 00:15:39,269 --> 00:15:40,950 and inoculating buckwheat to see 527 00:15:40,950 --> 00:15:43,600 how the specific strains impact 528 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,399 the root hairs. 529 00:15:45,009 --> 00:15:47,169 And then I'm also growing 530 00:15:47,169 --> 00:15:50,669 buckwheat on a farm to see how 531 00:15:50,669 --> 00:15:53,639 the inoculant will work in a 532 00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:55,580 actual agricultural environment 533 00:15:55,580 --> 00:15:58,139 instead of in a lab laboratory 534 00:15:58,139 --> 00:15:58,939 environment. 535 00:15:59,730 --> 00:16:00,629 Yeah, it would be interesting. 536 00:16:00,950 --> 00:16:02,090 Of course, it would add another 537 00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:03,149 layer of complexity, but it 538 00:16:03,149 --> 00:16:04,350 would be interesting to, again, 539 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:06,590 compare to see if there is a 540 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:08,309 contrast between the individual 541 00:16:08,309 --> 00:16:10,710 species and the combination of 542 00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:11,690 different species that also 543 00:16:11,690 --> 00:16:12,710 includes the mycorrhizae. 544 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:15,359 Yeah. 545 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:17,019 Well, 546 00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:17,879 Maisie, thank you. 547 00:16:17,980 --> 00:16:18,779 Thank you for running the 548 00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:20,179 experiment. Oh, our team would 549 00:16:20,179 --> 00:16:21,500 not be happy if I didn't mention 550 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:22,860 that the product that Maisie was 551 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,319 using was actually BioCode Gold. 552 00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:26,470 So Maisie, thank you for that 553 00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:27,289 experiment. 554 00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:29,549 Thank you for the 555 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,019 work that you're doing and being 556 00:16:31,019 --> 00:16:33,039 willing to come on here onto the 557 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:33,879 show and to talk about it. 558 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:34,879 Thanks for all that you do. 559 00:16:35,379 --> 00:16:36,179 Thank you. 560 00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:36,840 Thanks for having me. 561 00:16:38,659 --> 00:16:40,259 The team at AEA and I are 562 00:16:40,259 --> 00:16:41,779 dedicated to bringing this show 563 00:16:41,779 --> 00:16:43,379 to you because we believe that 564 00:16:43,379 --> 00:16:45,080 knowledge and information is the 565 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,740 foundation of successful 566 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:48,019 regenerative systems. 567 00:16:48,659 --> 00:16:50,740 At AEA, we believe that growing 568 00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:52,480 better quality food and making 569 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,000 more money from your crops is 570 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:54,799 possible. 571 00:16:55,139 --> 00:16:56,080 And since 2006, 572 00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:57,360 we've worked with leading 573 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:58,700 professional growers to help 574 00:16:58,700 --> 00:16:59,680 them do just that. 575 00:17:00,409 --> 00:17:02,049 At AEA, we don't guess. 576 00:17:02,309 --> 00:17:03,549 We test. We analyze. 577 00:17:04,220 --> 00:17:05,480 And we provide recommendations 578 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,259 based on scientific data, 579 00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:08,539 knowledge, and experience. 580 00:17:09,329 --> 00:17:10,390 We've developed products that 581 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:11,690 are uniquely positioned to help 582 00:17:11,690 --> 00:17:13,190 growers make more money with 583 00:17:13,190 --> 00:17:14,190 regenerative agriculture. 584 00:17:14,910 --> 00:17:16,309 If you are a professional grower 585 00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:18,150 who believes in testing instead 586 00:17:18,150 --> 00:17:18,950 of guessing, 587 00:17:19,490 --> 00:17:20,599 someone who believes in a 588 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,000 better, more regenerative way to 589 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:22,799 grow, 590 00:17:23,069 --> 00:17:25,490 visit advancingecoag .com and 591 00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:27,029 contact us to see if AEA is 592 00:17:27,029 --> 00:17:27,829 right for you.