Danny Combs: Building Opportunities In Autism Employment

Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide?
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world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.
Before we jump in, if you haven't already, I invite
you to tap follow. It only takes a couple of
seconds and it helps his show reach more families who
need to hear these conversations. Thanks for being here. Our
guest today is someone who's been doing incredible work in
the autism community, especially when it comes to employment and opportunity.
Danny Combs has been deeply involved in helping create real
jobs and real pathways for autistic individuals through his work
with tex He's also involved with initiatives through the state
of Colorado that focus on neurodiversity in the workplace. The
last time Danny and I spoke, we talked about the
vision of building meaningful employment opportunities for autistic individuals. Today,
we're going to revisit that conversation, talk about the progress
that's been made, and look ahead at where things are going.
So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back
with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors.
Thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, I've been looking forward to it. I'm so glad
we were able to connect.
Yes, me too. Give us a little information on what
you've been up to since we last jotted.
Yeah, I mean it's hard to believe last time we
had spoken, last time you and I had the chance
and privilege to connect. Was honored to have received a
Congression Manner of Honor Society set. It's an honor award
for my work with the autism community, specifically here in
Colorado at TACT and the Coloraunudiversity Chamber of Commerce, and
a book that I had written and have since since
I had spoken to. I ended up getting appointed by
the governor here in Colorado to work for a new
office called the Colorado Disability Opportunity Office.
That's awesome. Tell us a little bit more about it.
It's really pretty fantastic in the sense that Colorado became
one of the first states to have a disability policy advisor,
or most states to the governor will have somebody that
advises them on education, transportation, housing, all those kind of things. However, disability,
which seems kind of surprising, Colorado does. And as this
governor's term has been coming to an end, he wanted
to make sure that kept going, and so they ended
up making a whole new state office to do just that.
They didn't want to raise taxes to do it, and
so they got really creative in the way they went
around it. Is they ended up reissuing historic license plates
here in Colorado. So not like you know in Tennessee
you would have if you're a ut fan the volunteers,
you have a Tennessee Titans plate or Disabled Veterans plate
or something along that. They have that here in Colorado too,
nothing like that. They took historic plates from the fifties,
the sixties, et cetera, and brought them back and said, Okay,
the one that's really popular for us is an all
black plate with white letterings, very simple, looks a lot
like the black and yellow out in California. If you'd
like this license plate, you can do it. It's twenty
five bucks. Well, people turns out really like historic things
like that when it's clean and simple and not branded
with its favorite sports team or cause it's now generating
about a million and a half bucks a month for
US twenty five dollars a pop.
That's great, which is just wild.
It's fantastic. And with that it makes sustainable funding because
every year when somebody wants to reissue their plate and
get their little stickers for their license plate, they have
to pay it again. It's really creative and we get
to advise. That doesn't mean that, you know, we get
the final say, but it's really neat to have a
seat at the table and make sure that the voice
of our community is heard. And then we get to
take that funding and provide grant opportunities for a whole
bunch of groups throughout the state, from for profits to nonprofits,
to state offices to municipalities of the fundings open to
everybody as long as there is at least a committee
of folks with disabilities overseeing it, which we're really proud of,
to make sure there's like a nothing about us without
us kind of mindset.
Does this funding cover all disabilities?
It does. Yeah, it covers all disabilities, which is amazing,
and especially with the work that I've got to do
in the autism and I think that the governor asked
me to do this because building tact and the color
and Neudiversity Chamber of Commerce and those teams from ground up,
this very much feels like a startup. Sure that makes
sense with that startup kind of mindset. One of the
things I'm excited to be starting in your neck of
the woods in Tennessee is a new group called Buildable
and it's kind of taking the idea that we've been
working on attacked for all these years and the fact
that no one has copied this idea of using the
skill trades's vessels to develop employment skills just to get
nerd of verrgent individuals. And here in Colorado at least,
it has grown to be the most successful transition to
employment program in the state nice over a thousand students.
It was one thousand and fifty seven students went through
it last year. We regularly get folks that reach out
and say, we'd like to do this in our state. Well,
we're going to do it. We're doing it under a
different name because folks have advised us, the people that
are smarter than be with the fancy law degrees advise
us to do it this way. Right, it'll be a
separate organization, but it's kind of taking the IP behind that,
and it's taking it creating this platform and transition educational transition,
training and education program for artistic and nerd of virgent
individuals to get job skills and then hopefully to careers.
That's what we're trying to do.
When does it plan to start in Nashville?
Actually in March? Well, yeah, so we found Belmont University
has decided to be the first partner university for our workshops.
Shared it at Vanderbilt. Belmont's come on board as far
as hosting some of the classes, and we're having these
workshop opportunities for children, young adults and grown adults to
kind of come in and get the opportunity to try
and kind of explore, discover, create, see if it's something
that they're interested in doing, and so like we're doing
like a ukulele making class for example, for come and
build ukuleles and actually give it a shot. And the
idea is that we're going to be empowering these individuals
to try and see if it's something they like. And
then we're also then building up, you know, the students
that might be interested for when we get this going
full time.
When do you think that will be?
Hopefully it's this fall that's our goal. By the time
we acquire the facility, get it renated, and then start going,
that's our plan.
Now where do you see this developing and what do
you see it developing into. It's kind of a startup,
like you mentioned, how do you see this evolving? I
mean this could be unlimited in what you do. What
are your main objectives and what are you focusing on
in getting this thing started.
The main focus at first is to find a couple
trades that people seem interested in, and we've got, thankfully
a lot of really big corporation partners that love the
work that we've done kind of the proof of concept
with tact that have come on board. So, for example,
auto mechanics Subaru is a really great partner. They've agreed that,
you know, they will come to those dealerships that are
selling those products on our behalf and say, hey, there's
this training program. You should hire their graduates, and it
comes from them rather than us just knocking on the door.
More credibility behind that. What we're hoping to do is
to start kind of shifting that paradigm of workforce and saying, hey,
everybody's looking for workers, specifically among the autism community, being
the highest unemployed demographic in the country, we have got
this opportunity to have real, meaningful careers. Why don't you
come through our program and let us support that effort
and that life change for you. And so we're hoping
that the folks in Tennessee, it seems like they're already
getting very excited about it, come on board with that.
And then as we've shared the idea, we've had about
fifteen states that have also expressed interest, and then those
are at different stages of getting startups. So hopefully when
you and I talk in another two years after the
last time we started to do it's been two years
since we spoke last, I know there will be you know,
multiple of these all over the country. That's the goal.
The last time I talked with you, I do remember
you were speaking about trying to increase TACT across the country. Yeah,
so is it more focused on doing this and keeping
TACT in the background for more of the support.
Yeah, there'll be separate organizations. I think what TACT is
doing in Colorado is just working so well and is
so blended to the community. We want to make sure
that we're starting here with Buildable it honors that and
doesn't take away from that. As we've been traveling around
and really meeting with folks from all over the country
that have successfully spread nonprofits across the country, one thing
that's been really interesting to see is there doesn't necessarily
be a level of consistency where you go to one
in one state in another and another state necessarily getting
that same product. So we want to make sure that
by doing it this way, we're taking that opportunity, but
trying to kind of most franchise it, if you will,
which you can't do with a nonprofit, that we're able
to control the idea to make sure that the team
is teaching the way that we think they should teach.
Structuring the classrooms the way that we think they should
structure them, have the right tools that we think they
should be using, all of those things so that we
can do our best to guarantee that individuals are going
to be successful.
What are some of the challenges that you still have
to encounter in turning this into a reality.
You know, finding the right people is very, very difficult.
There's a lot of well meaning people that want to help,
but the thing is, and you know, I mean you're
an entrepreneur yourself. When you're starting something up, it is hard,
and it's efensive, and you know, specifically in the trades,
there's a lot of tools and those tools are not cheap. Unfortunately,
while well meaning people want to get things set up,
once they start pricing out what classrooms full of power
tools and hand tools and all that quick and looks
like it's expensive, and then finding the right locations that
are both a zoned properly and can handle transportation and
infrastructure for that kind of equipment. There's a few of
those dominoes that need to fall in alignment for it
to be successful. So trying to find those locations and
then also are near jobs because sometimes we get folks
in rural environments that reach out, which would be incredible.
But if there's no opportunity for jobs in those environments,
what becomes the point of the training program? It crosses
into that semi day treatment kind of program.
Yeah, that makes total sense. Now working for the state
versus this, What are some of the differences you've seen
doing this, you.
Know, taking this position with the state. I'm so grateful
I got the opportunity to do it, because it feels
like you get a bigger picture of where everybody is at,
as far as everything is at at that point. To
that being said, I've been able to meet all kinds
of nonprofits across the state that I hadn't had access
to before in the past. Seeing where they're at, I
understand nonprofits even more than having run one, which is
kind of interesting. I feel like it both builds you
up and then also keeps you humble. Understanding the state
processes and why they are the way that they are
is really interesting too. I think I've learned so much
about policy, I mean, holp, the policy portion of it,
how that really either can make or break outcomes an
opportunity for individuals, and you know, having the chance to
help support that. I'm really grateful for that. I think
that's going to help have those kind of conversations and
learning how to speak that language in the future and
other states.
Yeah, that's great. Now I'm curious. Yeah, I'm doing a
special in May that's incorporating around the mental health part
of it. But I'm dealing with state legislators, state senators,
former US Health of representatives, and they're all telling me
how they try to create legislation that will help the
justice system and all the other things that go along
with autism and mental health. If you run into those
situations to where you're talking with legislators and senators and
all that, to where you see the frustration that everybody's
having and trying to get something past.
Oh, absolutely. And I think the hard thing is, I
mean the way that the system is structured right where
those legislators they mean really well, they have really good intent.
A lot of cases, they've never run a state agency
or office. Even the policies that they develop, they don't
understand how that truthfully impacts those running those state offices.
And let alone the interaction between you know, those offices
and the nonprofits that they're trying to serve. In the
community members they're trying to serve. The most interesting thing
that I have found is like, for example, we're doing
a needs assessment here in Colorado. Our office is getting
to spearhead and I'm really excited about it. And it's
come up that no other state that we've been able
to find, and we talked to a whole bunch of states,
and the contractor we've hired to help us right has
also researched, has ever done this. And what I mean
by the needs assessment is we don't have any real
information of how many folks, for example, in the state
have autism. We don't really know. We have general studies
that you know, the CDC does or the World Health
Organization does, it's taken from a handful of states, from
one specific age demographic, and then we paint broad brushes. Well,
how do you put in place a solid strategy and
program infrastructure if you don't really know who you're trying
to serve at that point, So, really trying to begin
with the end in mind. And to your point about
those legislators again, they mean really well, but they're not
really with those roadblocks that can stand in the way,
or they don't really understand the ideas that they have
how they're going to serve the community when they don't
have all the actual data. At the same time, too.
Have you been able to give them some advice? Where
you operated tact for so long, you've worked with nonprofits,
you understand how they operate, So have you been able
to give them some real life, everyday operational advice.
Oh? Absolutely. I find that they want to learn, like
they're hungry, but even the way that they can go
about it is rather limited. That being said, I've worked
at state level. Things I've done in the federal level
was getting to work with the Neurodiverse Air Force, where
we were able to change the National Defense Authorization Act
for NERD virgin folks going into the Air and Space Force.
I was really, really very happy to be part of
that team that got to work on that, and I
was not the lead on that. I was fortunate to
work with some incredible individuals. I just got to be
part of that team. I would be really curious to
see what it would be like to work with the
more federal level representatives.
For sure. Yes, it certainly can be eye opening in
the way that they do their legislation. Yeah, you do
have a certain amount of legislators and senators that really
do want to help. Then you have a certain group
of those that have no concept or understanding about it,
and unfortunately, because they don't understand, they're the ones that
will veto Yeah. I spoke with one legislator. They got
a unanimous vote through the House, and then when it
got to the Senate, unfortunately it died. We still have
a lot of people that we have to get information
to so they can understand what is needed to help
these people. They have to understan that this is not
just national, it is also worldwide.
Oh my gosh.
Yah. Yeah.
Well, I think to your point that the communication and
the way that we articulate the need, the strengths, the
assets of community, we need to unify that. And I
think one thing that has not helped our community, specifically
in the autism world, is some of the arguments that
come up from time to time and rather than saying, Okay,
you said something one way that I maybe wouldn't have
said it that way, understanding the centralized point and mission
and heart or at the same core at that point.
In the nonprofit world too, unfortunately, nonprofits are so competitive
and they're so siloed in their scope of work, biting
over similar grants, same kind of buckets, that they don't
necessarily collaborate. When you look at for profits, right, they
can kind of cannibalize each other, merge combined partner. You
don't really see nonprofits doing that very much. I think
if there was more of an alignment of nonprofits working
together in concert, I think that could be a really
powerful force to start really kind of shifting the narrative
and everybody's saying the same thing. I would imagine that
at that point they would be more likely to listen.
You know, I think you kind of said it right.
I find that the bigger charities they do not play
well together.
Yeah.
I find some of the smaller ones will reach out
some and at least communicate at some level, even though
they're going for that same dollar. They do understand this
a certain need they all have to have.
Yep, that's a great way to say it. That's a
fair point too. But especially when you start looking at
you know, nonprofits, A not very many make it over
five years, and then the ones that get over half
million into the you know, making millions of dollars years
even smaller pool at that point, right, the other ones
are definitely more collaborative because it's almost like a survival
point of view at that point.
Too, very true. Now, what are you hoping to see?
I know you're trying to push this Nashville collaborative as
high as it possibly can go. Yeah, how do you
see it evolving in Nashville beyond Belmont and some of
the other things we've already discussed.
Yeah, I think when we get our own facility and
get that going, I think we can make an incredible
hub an opportunity. I think as Nashville and Tennessee have
been growing dramatically, the exciting opportunity exists to make sure
that you know, there is a program that's centralized that
can bring together those nonprofits, get everybody collaborating and unifying
around the idea that our kids deserve an opportunity to
be successful and that there is a pathway forward to
actually lead towards that. Because just like we've experienced here
in Colorado, just like what Tennessee's experiencing in other states too,
is there isn't that real opportunity for our community. I mean,
there's a reason that when you and I spoke two
years ago about the statistics of employment for autistic individuals.
It has not changed.
Yeah, and that's not good.
Ten years ago, it still hasn't changed. And people keep
going about things in the same way that they've been
going around them and then wondering why we're not getting
different results. And I think what Buildable has the opportunity
to bring is saying, hey, this is something different, this
is something unique, this has a pathway, and it's opening
doors to actually create authentic opportunities and differentiating between jobs
and careers. And I think that's an important thing to
recognize the difference between because what happens a lot with
like day treatment programs, and they do field trips and
other exploratory events that might lead towards a part time
job working at a coffeehouse or at a restaurant. And
if that's what somebody wants, then God bless them. I
hope that they love it, sure, but if they want
more or something different, I should say, where they're working
in a trade, working in tech, et cetera, then they
should also get that same opportunity. And unfortunately that has
not happened, where we've been kind of put to the
side and said Okay, you can be here, this is
what's available. Options are, and that kind of takes away
the real opportunity and choice that narrow tipicals would normally have.
The unfortunate situation. I still see that the autistic community
still has is the perception from the potential employers on
understanding what autism is. Yeah, Unfortunately, there is still a
general lack of what autism is. Yeah, I see a
very difficult part of your job, and that's not just
educating the autistic community on what needs to be done,
but educating the neurotypical community on what autistic people can
do to help them.
Well, I mean, I think that's what goes back to
you to that unity message. I mean, I remember when
tech started, we would talk about our students as autistic
and people would be like, no, no, you can't say that.
You have to say person with autism. Now, if you
say person with autism versus autistic, it's flip flopped, right.
Rather than missing the message of what we were trying to achieve,
they got caught up in the language. I use that
because if they're well meaning, they didn't mean anything by
it other than the sense that by taking energy from
what's the opportunity is being presented to focus on things
like that, you are missing a greater opportunity to unify
around a team and actually get that genuine job or
career for that individual. I mean, that's just an example,
but I think we need to come together and do that.
And I think, you know, in the NEU diversity community
as all, it seemed like last year there was almost
this setback where folks that were getting in this DEI
space miss that really neudiversity in addition to that is
a return on investment. It's a value proposition. And if
the language shifts to the value proposition and return on
investment for businesses in a unified way, that's a much
stronger argument to make for programs supporting our community.
Yeah, business, especially those for profit businesses, many times they
only look at their bottom line. They have to make
sure the ROI is good. So the only thing I
see as a path forward is to change the language
so they're not looking at it as autistic versus neurotypical.
They're looking at can this person do the job I
need and make me dollars?
Yeah, I agree, one hundred percent. I think we need
more folks saying that same thing because you're exactly right.
Yes, yeah, like you say, we have gotten so wrapped
up in the langue whige of the way it's being
presented like a big thing. Now is I've heard? Is
it level one, level two or level three? A lot
of people have the terminologies they want to use, but
in my opinion, I think they're missing a very big point.
What needs to be put across is these autistic people
can do everything and anything that a neurotypical can do.
Sometimes it's just presentation one hundred percent.
And I think that's where like truly buying into the
notion of changing the environment and not asking the individual
to change, like meeting the individual where they're at where
you want to go, and then elevate them to that level.
I think traditional education and training programs where they've suffered
and where they've in all fairness, you know, in the
public school setting, for example, those teachers just aren't set
up for success. They're just not The classrooms are too big,
they don't have enough resources, they don't have enough support.
They shoot down the middle and it's like the Bell curve.
They're trying to get as many as they can. They
do the best they can. The reality is people don't
all learn the same way. They don't all retain information
the same way. They don't all progress in their skill developments.
Some elevate really quickly, then slow down, some progress really slowly,
then all of a sudden, they can do all these
amazing things. That's okay. I think it's an opportunity to
to really reframe on our broader scale, how do we
relook education in general? How do we relook training in general,
because even neurotypical kids aren't being served in the ways
that they deserve to be served.
Now you're brought up. If we have this conversation in
two years, let's jump ahead a little more. If we
have this conversation in five years, what do you think
it will look like then?
If you would have told me five years ago you
think of that we were still overcoming COVID. I mean,
that just feels like a lifetime ago, right, and what
we all went through with that In five years, honestly,
I would love to see that the entire system has
changed to the point that we don't even need programs
like this because everybody is doing this, that we have
truly embraced our entire community, that we have shifted as
a system that genuine inclusion of equality of opportunity exists
for everybody uniformly. That would be the dream. I don't
think we'll be there, and especially having a chance to
that work in stame government, seeing how slow the ship turns.
But I think we can get more interested parties and
the more folks like you that take the time to
listen to those of us that are you know, kind
of practitioners in ways that are demonstrating that this idea
can work. I think the more of those of us
that get our voices out there and together again uniformly,
I think the more likely we are to get some
people higher up that can really join us in making
that change. I would like to see that take place,
if possible.
Another thing that we all have to think about is,
of course the parents of the autistic children.
Mm hm.
They always want what's best for the child. Unfortunately, sometimes
they're not looking at reality. How do we get them
so they can have small successes? The reality will unfortunately
set in that they're not getting them exactly where they
want to be, but they will realize they are getting
small successes. This way, it not only helps the parents,
it also helps the community by showing them that things
can actually change.
That's such a great question on so many levels, because
one of the things that's a very real, I don't
want to say fear, but a very real train that's
coming down the tracks. I don't know what a better
way to say it is. What's happening now is for
the autism community, there's a large number that live at
home leaching caregivers. This is the first generation of autistic
individuals that for a lot of them or a large
group of them, did not end up in institutions, which
in my mind is a good thing. However, we have not,
in that same period of time built up the infrastructure
to support them outside of institutionalism other than their parents.
And when you look at how parents are getting olders,
and in a lot of cases parents are in their
seventies or eighties and still taking care of their autistic child,
what happens next, and for some reason, that's another elephant
in the room that no one is talking about. So
I think using that as an exam for the current
parents of younger children, recognizing they have to start looking
at programs like this and investing in real opportunity for
their kids. For the future, because another generation of parents
trying to take care of their life, while awesome, is
not going to be sustainable. What that looks like. I
don't have the answer for that one. I think that's
a whole other nut that needs to be cracked, you know,
housing and living situation. But it's something that is going
to be I'm guessing very regularly talked about here in
the next couple of years, because I don't know what's
going to happen to those individuals when their parents really
start passing and there's going to be a lot of
them and that's going to start happening, and there you
see little pockets of housing initiatives or inclusive housing initiatives
taking place, which is great, but it's certainly not enough
that's going to capture everybody at that point.
Yeah, I definitely agree. This June is my third year
of doing my podcast.
Current Gratulations. You have grown tremendously in three years. Good
for you. Congratulations.
Yeah, thanks, I appreciate that. Being here in Nashville and
talking with everyone, I can see where there is so
much more that needs to be done to correct all
these things that we've just talked about. But that's a
whole nother podcast episode. So, in closing, what would you
like to leave with our listeners giving them the thoughts
of what you're trying to do.
I think I would love to leave the listeners with
a thought that our kids can do amazing things when
we give them the opportunity to do those amazing things
and to not limit their scope of what they think
is achievable. I mean, you talked about autism level one, two, three,
or if you were talking about SIS levels one through seven.
Our kids, ourselves get put into boxes. However, I find
that individuals can regularly break out of those boxes when
you elevate and empower them and give them the tools
to truly be successful. And I hope that they'll come
by and see what we're trying to build in Nashville
and give it a chance, and I think they'll be
blown away at the opportunity of what their kids can do.
And I think they'll be proud of their child, as
they always are, but also the future that exists for
them now.
Yeah, well, I really appreciate you taking the time to
join us today.
Yeah me too, Thanks again for making the time my pleasure.
Thanks again, a big thank you to our guests for
sharing their journey. If today's conversation helped you see the
world a little differently, then we're doing exactly what we
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