387 | Stop Overloading Parents: How to Drip Feed CCPT Skills

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are talking about parent consults,

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which I know we've talked about

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kind of ad nauseam across the seasons,

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but

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One of the things that I think we're really struggling with lately

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is

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actually

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related to the last two episodes.

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So,

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2 episodes ago,

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we talked about stop trying to figure things out.

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And I think the reason why we're so obsessed with trying to figure things out

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is so that we have something to say when we meet with parents.

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And then last week we talked about adulthood bias again,

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which is another thing that we're going to share with parents in consults.

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And so today,

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I think one of the most helpful things that we can process together

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is when we sit down with parents for parent consults,

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every 5 sessions with a child,

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you're gonna sit down for 1 hour.

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And you're going to let them share what's going on.

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But one of the components of those parent consults

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is that you can share information.

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And I'm actually really happy.

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We,

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we've been talking about

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engaging with parents

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for March's theme in the Collective as well.

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Everything in my world is full circle,

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y'all.

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It's just

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deja vu in different

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rounds.

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But

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parent consults are one of the major

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hurdles that we have as a CCPT

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because clinically we can be rock solid in the playroom.

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We can feel like we

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have so much confidence and competence.

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And then sometimes that is not the case,

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and there's no carryover to when we sit down for an hour with a parent.

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So one of the things that I'm really excited about and one of the

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things that I think is a huge shift in a positive way for us,

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is that we are starting to engage

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parents more intentionally and appropriately and effectively.

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And one of those

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outcomes is

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we're trying to teach parents some skills,

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as we should.

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It's one of the components of those consults.

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Is that we equip them with some knowledge

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because we know that when parents are engaged,

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we know that when parents are bought in,

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we know that when parents are supportive,

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we know that when they implement skills at home,

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the outcomes are better.

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So that's a no-brainer.

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Of course we want parents to have knowledge and information.

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But y'all,

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I feel like we are botching things up big time on some of this.

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Because

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we are trying to give them way too much,

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way too fast,

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way too soon,

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way over their heads,

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set them up for failure.

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So,

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what I want to talk about today is drip feeding information

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to parents.

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For those of you that are familiar at all with CPRT,

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the filial curriculum,

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Landreth and Bratton's curriculum,

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10 weeks.

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That content is drip fed,

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and it's on purpose

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that it's orchestrated that way.

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Parents start with reflecting feelings.

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That's all they work on for an entire week.

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Because

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that's all a parent can work on.

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And

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the same principle applies when you sit down with a parent.

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You're only meeting with them for 1 hour every 5 sessions.

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So if you work with a child for 40 weeks,

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for example,

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you're gonna meet with them 9 times

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because you have your initial parent consult before the child even starts with you,

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and then 8 subsequent

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consults to get you to 40 weeks.

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So if you're going to meet with them for 9 hours.

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Here's what often happens.

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The 5-week consult,

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meaning

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the child's only been with you for 5 sessions.

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You lead with the four pillars.

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Y'all don't do that to your parents.

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And I say this lovingly.

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I say this gently.

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I say y'all know me.

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I love y'all.

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My heart is for CCPT.

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My heart is for each and every one of you.

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This is a family.

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This is a community.

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I don't do any of this without you.

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This is said so lovingly.

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I'm wrapping the brick in bubble wrap before I throw it,

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but I'm about to throw a brick here.

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So

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please

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pull your car over if you're driving.

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I'm just kidding,

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it's not that bad.

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But

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y'all.

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You can't even use the four pillars

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consistently in sessions without crumbling under pressure,

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and you've been doing this for how long,

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and you have how much training and you've listened to how many episodes,

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and you have a master's degree,

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and you've gone to CCPT conferences,

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and you're in my Collective and you're in my coaching group and

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You can't even do this.

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And you're gonna 5 weeks in with a family,

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you're gonna go,

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OK,

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so here's how you reflect feelings,

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and then you're gonna set limits,

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and then here's how you're going to give choices,

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and here's how you're going to encourage.

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This is gonna help you so much.

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Go.

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Y'all,

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that family is doomed to fail.

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That parent is destined to resent you,

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and that parent is likely to say,

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this CCPT crap doesn't work,

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and I want to go look at talk therapy for my kid because

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I tried that whole reflecting feelings thing and I tried that limit setting thing,

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and I mean,

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I think I gave choices,

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but man,

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nothing changed,

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nothing got better.

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First of all,

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you're 5 weeks in with that kid.

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That kid has so much more work to do.

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Just because a parent starts interacting with their child differently,

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the child doesn't change overnight.

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And we certainly have to be very careful to set parents up for success.

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Sometimes success

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is giving them something to think about.

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We're not even close to talking about a skill.

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We're not even remotely considering

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bringing up a strategy

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or a philosophy or a tenet or a rule of thumb.

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Sometimes it's.

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So

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the relationship that you have with your child.

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And your concern for preserving that relationship.

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is paramount.

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We're gonna start there.

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Your child will naturally behave in more self enhancing ways.

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When they feel unconditionally loved and accepted by their parent.

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So everything that happens in these next 5 weeks.

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No matter how you would normally respond,

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no matter what your propensity would be.

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Your inclination

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to react,

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to get angry,

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to yell,

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to escalate,

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to punish,

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to whatever,

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instead of what your bent is.

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Preserve relationship at all costs.

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Whatever that looks like for you.

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And we'll talk about it next time and we'll see what you've noticed.

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We'll see what has changed.

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We'll see how you feel.

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We'll see

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what your thoughts are.

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But

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these next 5 weeks,

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you're gonna talk and think

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and act.

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Preserve relationship at all costs

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because that is at the heart

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of change.

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We all naturally want to be in a relationship

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with someone that unconditionally loves and accepts us,

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and we want to become better

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because of that relationship.

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That may be the only thing that you teach that parent,

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and that may be the only thing they can handle for 10 or 15 weeks.

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Sometimes it's a rule of thumb from CPRT.

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Sometimes

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it's

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focus on the doughnut,

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not the hole.

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You get that parent in there that all they do is complain about their kid.

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All they do is lament the behavior.

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All they do is rail

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about how this kid is manipulative and all the.

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But your

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kid

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is right there.

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And you're focusing on what is missing,

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you're focusing on what you wish was there,

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you're focusing on

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what you feel like you don't have.

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But all day every day,

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your kid is right there in front of you.

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And your kid is

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lovable,

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and your kid is worthy of love.

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Folks on the doughnut,

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not the hole.

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Let's do that for 5 weeks.

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Let's talk about that when you come back.

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We're going way too far,

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like pedal down.

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I mean,

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high octane,

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V8,

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all in

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with teaching skills.

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And parents can't handle it.

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And

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the child is doing work,

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but

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work is slow,

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change is slow,

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self-actualization is slow.

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So we're going to give the child space and time to do their work slowly.

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We have to give parents space and time to do their work slowly too.

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So one of the most helpful things that we can do

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before we share any skills,

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any tips,

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any strategies with a family.

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Is assess what's their stress level,

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what's their anxiety level.

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What's their capacity for taking in information?

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What's their regulation?

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What's their desire to do work?

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You have to take inventory of what's going on.

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Some parents are ambitious,

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overachieving,

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give me everything you've got.

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OK,

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you can go a little bit deeper with that kind of parent.

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Most of them,

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however,

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they're in crisis.

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They're frustrated,

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devastated,

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embarrassed,

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defeated,

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overwhelmed.

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So on and so forth

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I read an article.

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I actually did a parenting

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podcast episode on this a long time ago now,

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but I read an article.

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I think the title of the article was,

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I love my kids,

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but I hate being a parent.

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And that got under my skin so badly.

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00:09:51,979 --> 00:09:54,320
I actually did a podcast episode on it because,

279
00:09:55,179 --> 00:09:55,340
gosh,

280
00:09:55,419 --> 00:09:55,510
I,

281
00:09:55,580 --> 00:09:56,260
I'm not gonna,

282
00:09:56,580 --> 00:09:57,580
I'm not gonna go into that.

283
00:09:57,739 --> 00:09:58,859
That's a whole other episode.

284
00:09:59,059 --> 00:10:01,219
Please go check out the parenting podcast if you want to hear it,

285
00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:01,549
but

286
00:10:02,619 --> 00:10:04,359
That's where so many of our parents are.

287
00:10:05,330 --> 00:10:06,169
Like I love my kids.

288
00:10:06,250 --> 00:10:06,909
I think

289
00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:09,030
I love like the idea of my kids,

290
00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:10,609
but practically speaking,

291
00:10:10,659 --> 00:10:11,080
like

292
00:10:11,250 --> 00:10:12,169
I hate being a parent.

293
00:10:12,289 --> 00:10:13,590
I hate having to deal with this.

294
00:10:13,770 --> 00:10:14,830
I hate the tantrums.

295
00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:15,650
I hate the screaming.

296
00:10:15,729 --> 00:10:16,830
I hate the disobedience.

297
00:10:16,950 --> 00:10:18,349
I hate getting calls from schools.

298
00:10:18,450 --> 00:10:18,869
I hate

299
00:10:19,090 --> 00:10:22,489
they're literally grieving and mourning and angry

300
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,250
over the life that they don't have.

301
00:10:27,460 --> 00:10:29,840
I thought when I became a parent.

302
00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:32,039
It was going to be

303
00:10:32,659 --> 00:10:33,979
fill in the blank idyllic.

304
00:10:35,479 --> 00:10:36,880
And the reality is,

305
00:10:36,890 --> 00:10:37,989
it sucks.

306
00:10:39,270 --> 00:10:40,650
Ideal versus actual.

307
00:10:42,229 --> 00:10:43,250
That's not a state.

308
00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:45,989
Where you can get heavy,

309
00:10:46,809 --> 00:10:47,809
skill laden,

310
00:10:48,130 --> 00:10:48,710
deep,

311
00:10:49,010 --> 00:10:51,710
jargony information and do anything with it.

312
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:54,840
So,

313
00:10:55,359 --> 00:10:56,020
my

314
00:10:56,419 --> 00:10:57,380
recommendation

315
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,400
is you need to think about it as you're kind of triaging.

316
00:11:01,580 --> 00:11:02,030
OK.

317
00:11:02,309 --> 00:11:02,630
What does,

318
00:11:02,729 --> 00:11:04,450
what does this parent need the most?

319
00:11:05,349 --> 00:11:06,289
And trust me,

320
00:11:06,669 --> 00:11:07,650
I said this on a

321
00:11:07,909 --> 00:11:08,969
collective call last week.

322
00:11:09,419 --> 00:11:10,030
Every,

323
00:11:10,270 --> 00:11:10,380
I,

324
00:11:10,469 --> 00:11:12,090
I wish every adult in the world,

325
00:11:12,570 --> 00:11:15,150
I said if a genie came out of a bottle and I got 3 wishes,

326
00:11:15,260 --> 00:11:16,489
one of my wishes would be

327
00:11:16,750 --> 00:11:18,890
that every adult in this entire world.

328
00:11:19,729 --> 00:11:21,059
New CCPT skills.

329
00:11:22,150 --> 00:11:24,299
That would legit be one of my three wishes.

330
00:11:26,609 --> 00:11:28,109
So does every parent,

331
00:11:28,770 --> 00:11:30,390
every single one need

332
00:11:30,849 --> 00:11:32,369
all of the CCPT knowledge?

333
00:11:32,489 --> 00:11:33,010
Yes.

334
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:35,559
But we can't throw that on them.

335
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,369
We can't push that.

336
00:11:37,489 --> 00:11:38,989
We can't expect that of them.

337
00:11:39,969 --> 00:11:40,239
Y'all,

338
00:11:40,330 --> 00:11:42,109
we can't even do it in our playrooms.

339
00:11:43,609 --> 00:11:44,109
So,

340
00:11:44,250 --> 00:11:44,869
let's

341
00:11:44,989 --> 00:11:45,989
drip feed.

342
00:11:46,450 --> 00:11:47,809
Let's be real cautious.

343
00:11:47,890 --> 00:11:49,349
Let's be real slow.

344
00:11:49,690 --> 00:11:50,469
Let's triage.

345
00:11:50,570 --> 00:11:50,729
OK,

346
00:11:50,809 --> 00:11:51,330
you know what?

347
00:11:52,969 --> 00:11:56,130
All all this parent can handle is 32nd burst of attention.

348
00:11:56,250 --> 00:11:58,150
So I think that's what we're gonna talk about today.

349
00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:00,619
32nd burst of attention with your kids.

350
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,599
Let's start there.

351
00:12:06,010 --> 00:12:08,750
Sometimes we want to give them so much more.

352
00:12:09,549 --> 00:12:10,409
But they're not ready.

353
00:12:12,830 --> 00:12:16,969
And we chose CCPT or I like to say CCPT chose us

354
00:12:17,630 --> 00:12:19,200
because we're OK with the waiting.

355
00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:21,710
We're OK with the unfolding.

356
00:12:21,869 --> 00:12:23,530
We're OK with the expectancy.

357
00:12:25,119 --> 00:12:25,780
We have to

358
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:28,659
Act exactly the same with parents.

359
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:31,109
We don't rush kids,

360
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:32,340
we don't push kids.

361
00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:34,299
We don't try to teach kids things.

362
00:12:34,349 --> 00:12:36,489
They figure it out when they're ready and when they're able.

363
00:12:37,530 --> 00:12:38,570
Same thing with parents.

364
00:12:39,549 --> 00:12:41,510
So we're going to go real slow,

365
00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:43,150
real gentle,

366
00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:44,309
real cautious.

367
00:12:45,109 --> 00:12:46,369
And if they come back

368
00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:49,809
because you gave them the smallest little nugget of wisdom

369
00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:50,849
and they're

370
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:52,409
over the moon happy,

371
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:53,349
oh my gosh,

372
00:12:53,390 --> 00:12:54,530
it worked and it was so,

373
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:54,869
yeah,

374
00:12:55,070 --> 00:12:56,789
I totally saw the benefit of it and it

375
00:12:56,789 --> 00:12:58,979
just absolutely has changed the last five weeks and,

376
00:12:59,270 --> 00:13:00,549
and they're raving.

377
00:13:00,989 --> 00:13:01,349
Guess what?

378
00:13:01,419 --> 00:13:03,210
They're going to be way more likely

379
00:13:03,510 --> 00:13:05,719
to want to try something else that you have for them next.

380
00:13:07,419 --> 00:13:10,469
But you lead with limit setting because that's what every parent begs for.

381
00:13:11,359 --> 00:13:11,960
Lord have mercy.

382
00:13:12,030 --> 00:13:13,950
If I had a $1 for every time a parent said,

383
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:14,539
Well,

384
00:13:14,630 --> 00:13:16,340
how can I get my kid to stop?

385
00:13:17,450 --> 00:13:18,169
Or start,

386
00:13:18,539 --> 00:13:19,380
depending on the behavior.

387
00:13:19,619 --> 00:13:21,400
Start brushing their teeth or stop

388
00:13:21,820 --> 00:13:23,140
refusing to get out of bed in the morning.

389
00:13:23,299 --> 00:13:23,580
OK,

390
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:23,940
so,

391
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,419
how do I get my kid to stop slash start whatever the behavior is?

392
00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:31,969
And what's the default that a CCPT is going to talk about?

393
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:32,969
Oh,

394
00:13:33,070 --> 00:13:34,229
it's a three-step process.

395
00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:35,460
It's called limit setting.

396
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:36,719
Let me explain it to you.

397
00:13:38,239 --> 00:13:39,570
All well intended,

398
00:13:39,690 --> 00:13:41,030
all good natured.

399
00:13:43,150 --> 00:13:44,969
And a parent is going to try it.

400
00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:47,179
It's going to go sideways.

401
00:13:47,429 --> 00:13:49,169
It's going to blow up in their face.

402
00:13:49,780 --> 00:13:50,510
Kids mad,

403
00:13:50,669 --> 00:13:51,630
parentsent mad.

404
00:13:52,109 --> 00:13:52,969
It doesn't work,

405
00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:54,109
end quote.

406
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,169
And then you try to give them another skill and they're like,

407
00:13:57,289 --> 00:13:57,609
yeah,

408
00:13:57,719 --> 00:13:58,109
um,

409
00:13:58,289 --> 00:14:00,710
I don't think anything that you say is worth me listening to.

410
00:14:01,630 --> 00:14:03,409
We lose all trust and credibility,

411
00:14:04,070 --> 00:14:07,099
not because CCPT skills weren't effective,

412
00:14:07,309 --> 00:14:08,830
not because it wasn't appropriate.

413
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:11,799
But because a parent wasn't ready to execute,

414
00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:13,359
that's on us.

415
00:14:14,409 --> 00:14:17,059
We have no one to blame but ourselves when that happens.

416
00:14:17,489 --> 00:14:19,169
And this is why we have high attrition rates,

417
00:14:19,250 --> 00:14:20,320
this is why parents bail,

418
00:14:20,429 --> 00:14:24,049
this is why parents switch and go to a talk therapist or a CBT therapist,

419
00:14:24,289 --> 00:14:26,510
or they get their kids diagnosed and medicated

420
00:14:26,650 --> 00:14:27,369
or whatever,

421
00:14:27,409 --> 00:14:29,109
because they don't think this works.

422
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:30,619
Well,

423
00:14:31,809 --> 00:14:33,369
You can teach a parent

424
00:14:33,599 --> 00:14:35,130
any CCPT skill.

425
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,979
And they might know the script.

426
00:14:40,859 --> 00:14:41,359
So,

427
00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:43,059
teach them to give choices.

428
00:14:44,489 --> 00:14:48,500
And they know that the script is you can choose A or you can choose B,

429
00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:49,440
which do you choose?

430
00:14:51,049 --> 00:14:51,640
All right,

431
00:14:52,010 --> 00:14:52,450
fair enough,

432
00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:53,650
so they go home.

433
00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:55,760
And they know that's the script.

434
00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:56,820
And so you,

435
00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:57,520
you get

436
00:14:57,659 --> 00:14:57,840
an,

437
00:14:58,419 --> 00:14:58,539
well,

438
00:14:58,619 --> 00:14:58,739
no,

439
00:14:58,780 --> 00:14:59,820
you couldn't even get an audio.

440
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:00,419
You get

441
00:15:00,570 --> 00:15:01,280
a written

442
00:15:01,859 --> 00:15:03,830
transcript of the exchange.

443
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:05,799
And when the parent says,

444
00:15:06,770 --> 00:15:10,809
You can choose to stop watching TV right now or you can choose to go to bed.

445
00:15:10,909 --> 00:15:11,869
Which do you choose?

446
00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:13,580
OK,

447
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:14,679
on paper

448
00:15:14,820 --> 00:15:15,979
as a transcript.

449
00:15:16,729 --> 00:15:18,190
That was CCPT adherent.

450
00:15:19,390 --> 00:15:20,739
But what you don't know is

451
00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:22,599
that you taught choice giving.

452
00:15:23,349 --> 00:15:24,309
Without the why.

453
00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:27,900
You taught choice giving without the philosophy.

454
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:31,940
You taught choice giving without apparent understanding

455
00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:34,200
that we preserve relationship at all costs.

456
00:15:34,739 --> 00:15:35,960
You taught choice giving

457
00:15:36,179 --> 00:15:38,099
without unconditional acceptance.

458
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:39,679
You taught choice giving

459
00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:40,940
without be a thermostat,

460
00:15:41,049 --> 00:15:42,010
not a thermometer.

461
00:15:42,340 --> 00:15:44,320
You taught choice giving without

462
00:15:45,809 --> 00:15:47,179
everything else under the sun

463
00:15:47,580 --> 00:15:48,979
that supports CCPT,

464
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:51,099
and you want to know how that choice gets executed.

465
00:15:53,599 --> 00:15:54,580
So help me,

466
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,739
you can choose to turn off that TV right now

467
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,059
or you can choose to go to bed right now,

468
00:16:00,130 --> 00:16:01,260
so you get to decide.

469
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:02,630
Whoa.

470
00:16:04,349 --> 00:16:05,549
We failed that parent

471
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,530
They failed their kid.

472
00:16:09,179 --> 00:16:09,190
Because

473
00:16:09,580 --> 00:16:10,679
we gave them the script.

474
00:16:11,599 --> 00:16:14,809
But they have no clue what CCPT is all about.

475
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:18,809
It totally got lost.

476
00:16:19,450 --> 00:16:19,460
Because

477
00:16:19,929 --> 00:16:20,890
we went too fast,

478
00:16:21,049 --> 00:16:21,479
too much,

479
00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:22,349
too soon,

480
00:16:22,890 --> 00:16:24,710
we gave them words to say.

481
00:16:25,950 --> 00:16:28,010
Without them having any sense.

482
00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:31,010
Of how choices are meant to be used

483
00:16:31,510 --> 00:16:32,729
in CCPT

484
00:16:33,150 --> 00:16:33,780
fashion.

485
00:16:34,390 --> 00:16:36,530
And in the spirit of the model.

486
00:16:38,270 --> 00:16:40,030
Choices are empowering.

487
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,799
Choices honor and respect a child.

488
00:16:44,229 --> 00:16:47,419
Choices believe that the child is capable.

489
00:16:48,750 --> 00:16:50,580
Of making an appropriate choice.

490
00:16:52,469 --> 00:16:54,030
None of that landed.

491
00:16:54,919 --> 00:16:56,200
They just said the words.

492
00:16:57,460 --> 00:16:59,369
That's why we have to be so careful.

493
00:17:00,650 --> 00:17:04,030
So please be really intentional when you meet with your parents.

494
00:17:05,128 --> 00:17:05,888
Really thoughtful,

495
00:17:06,009 --> 00:17:06,828
really careful.

496
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:08,390
To

497
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:09,209
think about,

498
00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:09,910
OK,

499
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:11,500
where should I start?

500
00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:13,618
What can this parent handle?

501
00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:17,150
And I'm gonna drip feed the smallest little morsel.

502
00:17:18,180 --> 00:17:19,969
And when we have success in that,

503
00:17:20,380 --> 00:17:21,699
we can go with the bigger morsel.

504
00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:24,290
But we certainly don't want to give them

505
00:17:24,868 --> 00:17:25,910
the whole banquet

506
00:17:26,430 --> 00:17:27,569
because they can't handle it.

507
00:17:28,910 --> 00:17:30,189
I hope that encourages you.

508
00:17:30,349 --> 00:17:31,949
I hope that you know how much I love you.

509
00:17:32,130 --> 00:17:32,959
We'll talk again soon.

510
00:17:33,189 --> 00:17:33,430
Bye.

511
00:17:34,459 --> 00:17:38,250
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

512
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,420
For more episodes and resources,

513
00:17:40,579 --> 00:17:45,339
please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.