Young Guns (1988) vs. Young Guns II (1990) vs. Tombstone (1993): Part 1

<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome back to Shirley. You can't be
<v Speaker 1>serious podcast. I'm a huckleberry.
<v Speaker 2>When is this is?
<v Speaker 1>It is, ladies and gentlemen. We are here to discuss
<v Speaker 1>two awesome movies three three awesome movies. Three awesome movies
<v Speaker 1>that involve cowboys. Not many Indians, but Mexican Indians use
<v Speaker 1>some of them.
<v Speaker 2>Keep calling me names. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
<v Speaker 1>Does this mean we enough? If I thought we were
<v Speaker 1>not friends, I could not bear it.
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be a clote fans.
<v Speaker 1>My god, Welcome back everybody. We are here to discuss
<v Speaker 1>Tombstone versus Young Guns one and Young Guns two. We'll
<v Speaker 1>probably have a ranking at the end. I know I've
<v Speaker 1>got my top one in mind. The finishers for second
<v Speaker 1>and third place are going to be up in the
<v Speaker 1>air for me. But okay, you remember watching these movies
<v Speaker 1>for the first time?
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, yes, VHS party. As soon as Young
<v Speaker 2>Guns came out, I picked it up on VHS. I've
<v Speaker 2>watched it a thousand times. Yeah, Young Guns two, same thing.
<v Speaker 2>I picked up the CD and then I picked up
<v Speaker 2>the VHS tape, and then Tombstone was kind of beginning.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think we were quiet in the DVD era
<v Speaker 2>for me at least at that time. But I had
<v Speaker 2>it on VHS and I watched all three of these
<v Speaker 2>all the time.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, these were definitely VHS movies for me and I
<v Speaker 1>Young Guns was kind of that same. I was experienced
<v Speaker 1>that at the same time that I was experiencing the diehard,
<v Speaker 1>you know phase, Like I was like, Okay, these are
<v Speaker 1>these are my movies right now. And so I don't
<v Speaker 1>really remember how I saw that one first, but I
<v Speaker 1>remember when the second one came out. A buddy of
<v Speaker 1>mine had seen it, and I was like, did you
<v Speaker 1>like it? He goes, I think it was better than
<v Speaker 1>the first one. I was like, oh dang, and I
<v Speaker 1>went I agreed with him. I thought, I thought the
<v Speaker 1>second one was better than the first one.
<v Speaker 2>And give me a final judgment already.
<v Speaker 1>No, that's how I felt when I was like, okay, okay, thirteen,
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's okay, okay. I was thirty years ago,
<v Speaker 1>all right.
<v Speaker 2>The bon jovie stuff pushed it over the top for you.
<v Speaker 1>Well, it was a big fact that not as that
<v Speaker 1>Blaze of Gloria was a killer song. And then I've
<v Speaker 1>got a fantastic burned in my you know, wonderful childhood
<v Speaker 1>memories of a snowball fight that occurred between me and
<v Speaker 1>my friends after we saw the movie Tombstone, where the
<v Speaker 1>quotes were just flying, you know, the snowballs were flying,
<v Speaker 1>and the quotes were flying too with them as well.
<v Speaker 2>That's fantastic. Yes, I love that.
<v Speaker 1>I'm yo Hukaberry. And then you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, Daisy, you know, Daisy.
<v Speaker 1>Law.
<v Speaker 2>Don't go around here, mister, I heard you the first time.
<v Speaker 1>All right, So enough about us. Should we jump in.
<v Speaker 2>Let's jump back in time to the year eighteen eighty one.
<v Speaker 1>You're so drunk you can't and nothing.
<v Speaker 2>In fact, you're probably seeing sample. I have two gums,
<v Speaker 2>one fight chobyon.
<v Speaker 1>We are on the day after the anniversary of the
<v Speaker 1>shootout at the OK Corral one hundred and forty years ago. Yesterday,
<v Speaker 1>Wyatt and his brothers went to go confront the Clanton's
<v Speaker 1>and mccloughy's and it did not get.
<v Speaker 2>Well, thirty bullets thirty seconds.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's not an exaggeration. If anything, thirty seconds
<v Speaker 1>is probably overestimating. It was probably even less than that.
<v Speaker 1>It's incredible, and some folks ended up dead. And you
<v Speaker 1>know why, should such a short thing end up in
<v Speaker 1>the annals of American history for another one hundred and
<v Speaker 1>forty years. These kind of big deal shootouts were not
<v Speaker 1>like this, like one gang against another gang just typically
<v Speaker 1>didn't happen like this. It was usually one guy against
<v Speaker 1>another guy, you know, the old high noon kind of thing. Sure,
<v Speaker 1>so that's why it was such a big deal. And
<v Speaker 1>then also it's really a big question at the time
<v Speaker 1>who is in the right. I mean, history has certainly
<v Speaker 1>painted a certain way, but the truth is the Clantons
<v Speaker 1>and the Clary's they didn't have any they didn't have
<v Speaker 1>any charges. They weren't criminals, they hadn't gotten anything against them,
<v Speaker 1>whereas the Herbs had some stuff on them.
<v Speaker 2>Sure so, but you know, history is a you know,
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting because there were two newspapers in Tombstone at
<v Speaker 2>the time. You know, the newspaper we're going to lean on.
<v Speaker 2>Our knowledge on this time period is based a lot
<v Speaker 2>on what the newspapers told us, right, and so journalism
<v Speaker 2>was not as I.
<v Speaker 1>Don't know that I would say it was not as anything.
<v Speaker 1>The fact is that journalism was biased. It was either
<v Speaker 1>going to be biased. One is, you know, maybe you
<v Speaker 1>got biased sharks of the IRPs. Maybe you got biased
<v Speaker 1>towards the cowboys. Maybe you got we're gonna sensationalize this
<v Speaker 1>story so we sell more papers, get more advertising, and
<v Speaker 1>maybe you know, we try to get the truth, and
<v Speaker 1>we just try to tell the truth as we believe
<v Speaker 1>it to be.
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what I was gonna say.
<v Speaker 1>That's why it is.
<v Speaker 2>Now, well, yes it is, Yes, it is. One newspaper
<v Speaker 2>in Tombstone sided with the Clintons, one side sided with Therps. Yeah, hey,
<v Speaker 2>you know what else happened in nineteen eighty one?
<v Speaker 1>Let me see, Uh, somebody shot somebody. I bet Pat
<v Speaker 1>Garrett shot Billy the Kid in the back allegedly.
<v Speaker 2>Allegedly you I'll make you famous.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll jump on that when we get to young
<v Speaker 1>guns too. Okay, let's start with young guys. It was
<v Speaker 1>the first movie made, so let's jump in there.
<v Speaker 2>Hey, James killing us.
<v Speaker 1>If we're in a spirit, we'll totally can't see us. Right.
<v Speaker 2>Came out August twelfth, nineteen eighty eight. Now, I couldn't
<v Speaker 2>find very much on how this movie came to be.
<v Speaker 1>This was a studio movie, so obviously those things were
<v Speaker 1>in play. But yeah, like typically I've got a great story,
<v Speaker 1>and I don't have a super good story on this one.
<v Speaker 1>So here's what'm gonna do. I'm want to tell you
<v Speaker 1>about the writer. Okay, so the writer's name was John
<v Speaker 1>Fuscous is because should we say it now?
<v Speaker 2>Sure?
<v Speaker 1>So at the beginning of this year, John Fusco, the
<v Speaker 1>guy who wrote Young Guns and Young Guns two and
<v Speaker 1>Emilio Estevez said, we are developing young Guns three.
<v Speaker 2>Young Guns three.
<v Speaker 1>They're not young anymore. It's just gonna have to be
<v Speaker 1>guns three.
<v Speaker 2>Did you see the movie poster?
<v Speaker 1>I did see the movie post to.
<v Speaker 2>See how the word young was shot up with bullets.
<v Speaker 1>So it's just kind of very creative. So everybody. It
<v Speaker 1>actually on IMDb it says said to be released in
<v Speaker 1>August of next year, we have the third part of
<v Speaker 1>the Young Guns installment. I am excited to see what
<v Speaker 1>they're going to do with it. I don't know what
<v Speaker 1>everybody in how they how can they do possibly? And
<v Speaker 1>I mean everybody's thirty something years older. What how you
<v Speaker 1>do it? I don't know how you do it.
<v Speaker 2>How's the math work here?
<v Speaker 1>Well, how's the fact that most of them died work? Well?
<v Speaker 1>I guess maybe they broached the fact that some of
<v Speaker 1>them didn't really die. I mean, Charlie didn't really die
<v Speaker 1>when they had him.
<v Speaker 2>Die, Charlie Javez doc.
<v Speaker 1>None of them died when they say they died in
<v Speaker 1>the movie. So maybe that's it. Maybe that's the big
<v Speaker 1>reveal at the beginning of the movie. Hey, it turns
<v Speaker 1>out nobody's really dead.
<v Speaker 2>Wow, and they're still avenging John Tunstall.
<v Speaker 1>If you guys needs to help out with the script,
<v Speaker 1>you can preach us at Shirley Podcast at gmail dot com.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right.
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So John Fusco was born in Connecticut. He actually
<v Speaker 1>was a musician. He left high school and decided to
<v Speaker 1>travel the American South as a blues musician and blue
<v Speaker 1>collar worker. He was trying to find some great old
<v Speaker 1>blue songs so he could do the Led Zeppelin thing.
<v Speaker 1>I guess, steal some blue songs, make them some rock songs.
<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute, He packed up his guitar and he
<v Speaker 2>just took.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And so he traveled around for a while. He
<v Speaker 1>ended up being a part of a band. In seventy nine,
<v Speaker 1>he joined and toured with the Dixie Road Ducks from
<v Speaker 1>Northern Virginia, but soon he left. Both of those and
<v Speaker 1>went to school to pursue screenwriting. Okay, he went to
<v Speaker 1>NYU and he had writing mentors that you A couple
<v Speaker 1>of them are going to recognize, Waldo salt Ring, Lardner
<v Speaker 1>Junior and Lorenzo Simple. Really Yep. He ended up winning
<v Speaker 1>back to back honors in the National Screenwriting competition in
<v Speaker 1>his junior and senior year. He won the top prize,
<v Speaker 1>which was a Nissan CenTra. So that's pretty cool. And
<v Speaker 1>he got a contract with the William Morris Agency and
<v Speaker 1>his thesis became the movie that I've talked about before,
<v Speaker 1>the other Ralph Mancio movie of the eighties, Crossroads, of course,
<v Speaker 1>about blues in the South.
<v Speaker 2>I could watch this movie. I've never seen Crossroads.
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, you do need to.
<v Speaker 2>I pride myself on being like an eighties movie gurer,
<v Speaker 2>but I've never seen that.
<v Speaker 1>It's like, it's like Devil went down to Georgia eighty style.
<v Speaker 1>It really is. It's good. It's such a good movie.
<v Speaker 1>You got checked out. So anyway, the final scene of
<v Speaker 1>Crossroads is a battle of guitar playing that takes place
<v Speaker 1>in hell.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's interesting there you go, Okay, keep.
<v Speaker 1>Going, and so then he wrote Young Guns. That's all
<v Speaker 1>I've got. I mean, I don't know what to say, Like,
<v Speaker 1>I can't find anything else. I don't know how Christopher
<v Speaker 1>Kane was picked to direct it. But we can talk
<v Speaker 1>about Amelia Stevez. He's part of the brat pack. He
<v Speaker 1>had done The Outsiders, he had done Breakfast Club.
<v Speaker 2>He had done a movie called That Was then This
<v Speaker 2>is Now, uh huh with Christopher Kane.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that may have been how he got hooked
<v Speaker 1>on because it seemed like Emelio Estevez was kind of
<v Speaker 1>a driving force on this, although he wasn't the first
<v Speaker 1>one that they wanted to play the part.
<v Speaker 2>They wanted Sean Penn as Billy the.
<v Speaker 1>Kid, not crazy. That'd have been a different movie.
<v Speaker 2>Listen, Emilio Estevez may not be the greatest actor they
<v Speaker 2>ever walked down the street. Yeah, but he is a
<v Speaker 2>perfect Billy the Kid.
<v Speaker 1>You know why Sean Penn didn't get the job, right. No,
<v Speaker 1>he's in jail for punching out a photographer.
<v Speaker 2>Is that right?
<v Speaker 1>Too busy?
<v Speaker 2>Too busy being married to Madonna at that.
<v Speaker 1>Year, I guess, so wow for defending her honor.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember those days. Yeah, punched out a photographer.
<v Speaker 2>Before we get into cast too far, I just listen.
<v Speaker 2>We are doing historical movies today. Okay, we're not college professors.
<v Speaker 2>We are just two guys with.
<v Speaker 1>Well I mean you are you are? Oh? Yes, I am.
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's right, it's me. I can't. I always forget
<v Speaker 1>which one of us is which.
<v Speaker 2>If you want a really good podcast on Billy the Kid,
<v Speaker 2>Chris Weimer does America.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Infamous America.
<v Speaker 2>And Legends of the Old West.
<v Speaker 1>And they are fantastic. They are really good man, and
<v Speaker 1>our friend Dan lefeb has had him as a guest
<v Speaker 1>on his two episodes on these movies, the Tombstone episode
<v Speaker 1>and the Young Guns episode. They just covered Young Guns one,
<v Speaker 1>not Young Guns two. But check those out if you
<v Speaker 1>want an abbreviated version of what Chris has to offer,
<v Speaker 1>and then check out his podcast for sure.
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just going to cover a brief history on
<v Speaker 2>these characters.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, So we really don't.
<v Speaker 2>Know tons of hard evidence about Billy the Kid. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>probably the most famous Old West outlaw.
<v Speaker 1>Agreed, Yeah, yeah, he's probably top of the list.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so most people think he was born in New
<v Speaker 2>York City. Actually, his birth name was Henry McCarty. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>when his mom got married at a young age, she
<v Speaker 2>married a guy named Antrim, so he took the name
<v Speaker 2>Henry Antrim. Other aliases, you may know him as William H. Bonnie,
<v Speaker 2>uh huh, which I thought this was interesting. So his
<v Speaker 2>whole life he was known as Henry the Kid right right,
<v Speaker 2>Billy Bonnie. And it took a newspaper to finally put
<v Speaker 2>the three magic words together. I believe it was the
<v Speaker 2>Las Vegas, New Mexico Gaza or something. I can't remember
<v Speaker 2>the actual newspaper they finally put together Billy the Kid.
<v Speaker 1>And man that's magic title?
<v Speaker 2>Is that incredible? Billy the Kid?
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So he was born in New York City, traveled through Indiana,
<v Speaker 2>they made their way to Wichita, and they ended up
<v Speaker 2>in Silver City, New Mexico. There was a silver boom,
<v Speaker 2>Silver City, New Mexico.
<v Speaker 1>Right.
<v Speaker 2>Billy's mother died from a lung infection at the age
<v Speaker 2>of forty five, and essentially at that point his teenager
<v Speaker 2>he became an orphan, fell in quickly with the bad crowd,
<v Speaker 2>as teenagers often do, was arrested early, I think eighteen
<v Speaker 2>seventy five for stealing laundry from a clothesline, stealing from
<v Speaker 2>a chinaman.
<v Speaker 1>Well, Clark Kent got away with it. Okay, sorry, go ahead.
<v Speaker 2>Right, So, because he was friends with the sheriff's son, right,
<v Speaker 2>and we his parents do this sometimes you watch after
<v Speaker 2>your kid, and because your kid is hanging with this
<v Speaker 2>other kid, you want to make sure that kid is
<v Speaker 2>on the straight and narrow. So the sheriff brought him
<v Speaker 2>man put him in jail and in essentially a way
<v Speaker 2>to scare himself straight. Right, So Billy wasn't really in
<v Speaker 2>as much trouble as he perceived he was. And so
<v Speaker 2>when he was let out for exercise, somebody turned their back.
<v Speaker 2>And again, this is not the prison of today, right,
<v Speaker 2>when you've got to feed prisoners and take care of them,
<v Speaker 2>they would just assume you'd left. Right, Well, somebody turned
<v Speaker 2>their back, and he shimmed up a chimney and up
<v Speaker 2>and over the wall and out and gone, oh wow, okay,
<v Speaker 2>So he shimmied up like a little kid, you know,
<v Speaker 2>I mean, skinny teenager, crawled up at chimney and out
<v Speaker 2>to freedom. So again, hanging out with the wrong crowd,
<v Speaker 2>stealing horses from soldiers. You know, this is post Civil war,
<v Speaker 2>I mean, just post Civil War. So he's playing cards
<v Speaker 2>one night with a guy they called Wendy k Hill
<v Speaker 2>like blows like the wind, Wendy calling Wendy because he
<v Speaker 2>liked to tell these long, elaborate stories and everybody thought
<v Speaker 2>he was full of crap. Right, Well, he started giving
<v Speaker 2>the kid a hard time and calling him. He called it,
<v Speaker 2>we know, he called him a pimp and a son
<v Speaker 2>of a bit, and he was holding him down. They
<v Speaker 2>got in a scuffle, yeah, and he had his knees.
<v Speaker 2>He's saying he was hacking on him. He's hacking on it.
<v Speaker 2>So he had him down, he had his knees on
<v Speaker 2>his shoulders and was slapping him and embarrassing him.
<v Speaker 1>This is the Wendy slapping Billy, Wendy slapping Billy of
<v Speaker 1>the kid who is like seventeen at this moment.
<v Speaker 2>And so what happens. He gets a hold of a
<v Speaker 2>pistol somehow and shoots this guy and he commits his
<v Speaker 2>first murder right self defense, probably yeah, once again, he
<v Speaker 2>takes off, probably probably gets cleared and self defense. But
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're young, you're seventeen, You're like, crap, I
<v Speaker 2>just shot a guy. I'm gone, right, Okay. So serif sheriff.
<v Speaker 2>So he takes off that happened in Arizona. He bails
<v Speaker 2>on Arizona, goes to New Mexico. Okay, So when he
<v Speaker 2>arrives in New Mexico, it's right as the Lincoln Wars
<v Speaker 2>are getting ready to happen.
<v Speaker 1>So the Lincoln Wars, I'll throw in with it, all right.
<v Speaker 1>So you've got John Tunstall, you've got Alex McSween, and
<v Speaker 1>you've got the Murphy Dolan gang. Yes, right, Jack balances Murphy.
<v Speaker 1>You don't really see Dolan, you get him like a
<v Speaker 1>little glimpse of him in the back. But the truth
<v Speaker 1>is a little bit different than what we see in
<v Speaker 1>the movie. For one, John Tunstall was like twenty three
<v Speaker 1>years old. He was younger than Doc, he was younger
<v Speaker 1>than Charlie, he was younger. Yeah, he was younger than
<v Speaker 1>everybody except for Billy the kids. So he wasn't like
<v Speaker 1>this old mentor. He was a guy from England who
<v Speaker 1>had come across to make his fortune. And he happens
<v Speaker 1>to run into Alex McSween. It's fascinating story. So they
<v Speaker 1>are in Santa Fe, New Mexico, in a hotel restaurant
<v Speaker 1>and he overhears Alex McSween saying the words that, boy,
<v Speaker 1>if somebody really had some grit, they could go down
<v Speaker 1>to Lincoln County and make a lot of money, run
<v Speaker 1>cattle and you know, competing against the Murphy Dolan Gang. Now,
<v Speaker 1>Alex McSween had been the attorney for the Murphy Dolan Gang. Yes, like,
<v Speaker 1>so he was like, oh, well, I can help out
<v Speaker 1>because I know all the ins and outs of their organization.
<v Speaker 1>I can tell you in today's world that will get
<v Speaker 1>you in big trouble as a lawyer. Yeah, But back then,
<v Speaker 1>I guess it just it was what it was. So
<v Speaker 1>he knew the secrets of the Murphy Dolan Gang, he
<v Speaker 1>knew how crooked they were, and he was like, I
<v Speaker 1>would like to get someone who's a decent person in
<v Speaker 1>charge here and taken over this thing, and I know
<v Speaker 1>how their game works, so I can help you out.
<v Speaker 1>So it was really him that was kind of pushing
<v Speaker 1>John Tunstall into doing this.
<v Speaker 2>John Tussell had some family money, yeah, and he did
<v Speaker 2>have some fortitude yeah, right, he had the balls to
<v Speaker 2>go against the Murphy Dolan game. Yeah, And he was
<v Speaker 2>quoted as saying that he wanted fifty cents of every
<v Speaker 2>dollar spent in New Mexico. So John Tussell, it wasn't
<v Speaker 2>that he wasn't ambitious or even greedy, right, He just
<v Speaker 2>wasn't willing to murder people.
<v Speaker 1>Right. He would take up arms and he would defend
<v Speaker 1>and that sort of thing, which was different than McSween.
<v Speaker 1>McSween was anti violence completely like he, which is, you know,
<v Speaker 1>ironic that he would be gunned down in the front
<v Speaker 1>end part of his house while his house was burning.
<v Speaker 1>Tunstall was one who would take up the fight, but
<v Speaker 1>wasn't one to go instigate.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so it is interesting before we really go any further,
<v Speaker 2>almost everybody, at least the main people are based on
<v Speaker 2>real people in Young Guns and Tombstone.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the historical accuracy of these movies, given that they
<v Speaker 1>are really good and Hollywood movies right, is really pretty impressive.
<v Speaker 2>It is impressed.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the fact is there are just some really
<v Speaker 1>cool things going on back in the eighteen eighties and
<v Speaker 1>we got the benefit of being able to capture it
<v Speaker 1>via Hollywood. Okay, guys, we're going to take a brief break.
<v Speaker 1>We're coming to you with our Shirly showcase. We have
<v Speaker 1>a special Patreon member who is joining us today to
<v Speaker 1>tell us her opinion on one of our prior episodes.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's Torontonian. Her name is Addie, and this is
<v Speaker 2>what she has to say.
<v Speaker 3>Hey guys, this is Addie from Toronto, Ontario and I
<v Speaker 3>really love your podcast, so thank you for asking me
<v Speaker 3>to be a part of it.
<v Speaker 4>This is really exciting.
<v Speaker 3>I've listened to your podcast for a few weeks now,
<v Speaker 3>maybe a month, but I really love it. I listen
<v Speaker 3>to it every week. It's a great way to break
<v Speaker 3>up the work day. It gives me a little bit
<v Speaker 3>of joy in an otherwise boring work day. So thank
<v Speaker 3>you guys for that. Your podcast is just kind of
<v Speaker 3>really chill and fun and I love listening to you
<v Speaker 3>guys talk. You guys are very knowledgeable and funny, and
<v Speaker 3>it sounds like listening to two old friends sit around
<v Speaker 3>and talk and laugh and it just gives you a
<v Speaker 3>really good feeling. So I really love your podcast, So
<v Speaker 3>keep doing what you're doing. So I've chosen your Bill
<v Speaker 3>and Ted episodes, both of them, because I have to
<v Speaker 3>talk about all three movies. And yeah, I just love
<v Speaker 3>those movies so much. They're near and dear to my heart.
<v Speaker 3>I got into excellent Adventure when I was about fifteen sixteen,
<v Speaker 3>which was two thousand and five, two thousand and six,
<v Speaker 3>so kind of way after the movies came out, but
<v Speaker 3>they're still nostalgic to me and remind me of being
<v Speaker 3>a teenager. I love them so much. I've made my
<v Speaker 3>friend in high school dress up as Bill and me
<v Speaker 3>as Ted because that's how much I love the movies
<v Speaker 3>and still one of my favorite Halloween costumes of all time.
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how I'm gonna pick. It's impossible to
<v Speaker 3>rank these movies because they're all so good. I love
<v Speaker 3>them so much. Excellent Adventure, obviously, is where we meet
<v Speaker 3>Bill and Ted, and you meet these two lovable characters
<v Speaker 3>who are just pure fun and they're sweet and they're
<v Speaker 3>nice and they just want to have a good time.
<v Speaker 3>They're not like those typical rebellious rage against the machine,
<v Speaker 3>range against the man rocker dudes.
<v Speaker 4>They just want to have a good time. They want
<v Speaker 4>to make music.
<v Speaker 3>They're vibing, they're chilling, they're just living their life. And
<v Speaker 3>they also have to save the world, so I guess
<v Speaker 3>there's a little bit of conflict there, and it's just
<v Speaker 3>a fun time.
<v Speaker 4>And then you have Bogus Journey, which.
<v Speaker 3>To me, I think while it is a complete departure
<v Speaker 3>from Excellent Adventure, I think they take the formula from
<v Speaker 3>Excellent Adventure change it into something completely different while also
<v Speaker 3>remaining true to them, which I don't know if that
<v Speaker 3>makes any sense, and I don't know if this is
<v Speaker 3>an unpopular opinion, but I do love Bogus Journey. I
<v Speaker 3>love William Sadler as Death. He is absolutely hilarious. And
<v Speaker 3>I also love God gave rock and roll to you,
<v Speaker 3>one of the greatest songs and forever will remind me
<v Speaker 3>of Bill and Ted. And then you have Faced the music,
<v Speaker 3>which honestly I think is fun, nostalgic. It was a
<v Speaker 3>good throwback. It was completely for the fans, and I
<v Speaker 3>think it was a great way to close off the trilogy.
<v Speaker 3>I think Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves did an amazing
<v Speaker 3>job and they just brought Bill and Ted back to
<v Speaker 3>life while finally closing off their story in a satisfactory way.
<v Speaker 4>And I just loved it. And that's it. I mean.
<v Speaker 3>As for my ranking, I think I can only rank
<v Speaker 3>them in the way they came out as one, two,
<v Speaker 3>and three.
<v Speaker 4>But they're all so good and it really.
<v Speaker 3>Is truly impossible to rank them, but yeah, I guess
<v Speaker 3>the only appropriate way to end this is to say,
<v Speaker 3>be excellent to each other and party on.
<v Speaker 4>Dudes.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you guys for everything you do. I can't wait
<v Speaker 3>to listen to more.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, awesome, I love it.
<v Speaker 2>I love that's she called us fun and chill.
<v Speaker 1>I'd like fun, I like chill, I like being described
<v Speaker 1>as such. It is good. We really really appreciate the
<v Speaker 1>warm words that you had for us. Addie. Thank you
<v Speaker 1>very much.
<v Speaker 2>I think it's awesome that somebody so young likes these
<v Speaker 2>eighties and nineties movies that we love.
<v Speaker 1>I know it sounds like she was born in like
<v Speaker 1>the Lady eighties and still is digging on the stuff
<v Speaker 1>that we grew up with. It's totally awesome.
<v Speaker 2>I know it's fantastic. Addie, Thank you so much. We
<v Speaker 2>love hearing from you. Looking forward to interacting with you
<v Speaker 2>in the future.
<v Speaker 1>And guys, if you want to be an executive producer
<v Speaker 1>like Addie, be sure and check out our Patreon page.
<v Speaker 1>It's patreon dot com slash Shirley Podcast. You can be
<v Speaker 1>a Patreon member for as little as five bucks a
<v Speaker 1>month and get some maybe cool prizes if you go
<v Speaker 1>up from there. So definitely check that out. Thanks Addie.
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's get back to it.
<v Speaker 2>So, Yes, William H. Bonnie actually lived, Jose Chavez, real
<v Speaker 2>person Joside, Doc Scurlock, real person, Charlie Bowdrey, Dirty Steve
<v Speaker 2>even was a real person with a real name.
<v Speaker 1>Yep.
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So when Billy arrives in Lincoln County, the Murphy
<v Speaker 2>Dolan store is the most powerful thing.
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>They actually have a deal with the army. Remember this
<v Speaker 2>is Civil war, just after the Civil War, and they
<v Speaker 2>are running every So tons silomicch swing came to town
<v Speaker 2>to put them out of business. Guess what, that's not
<v Speaker 2>gonna be very popular.
<v Speaker 1>Let all fly around here, get.
<v Speaker 2>Yes. So, like the movie, Murphy Dolan assassinated John Tunstall. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>New Year's Day, New Year's Day and the group of
<v Speaker 2>young men. It's not this father son relationship, right, or
<v Speaker 2>even teacher student relationship, right. It's boss and regulators regularly.
<v Speaker 1>I mean they were already the regulators.
<v Speaker 5>Yes, we worked for mister Tunstall as regulators. We regulate
<v Speaker 5>any stealing of his property. We're damn good too. Mister
<v Speaker 5>Tunstell's got a soft spot for runaways. There looks vagrant types,
<v Speaker 5>but you can't be any geek off the street. Gotta
<v Speaker 5>be handy with the steel, if you know what I mean,
<v Speaker 5>or you keep it's.
<v Speaker 1>Just after that happened, they became the deputized regulators.
<v Speaker 2>Gotta be handy with the steel, if you know what
<v Speaker 2>I mean.
<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to talk about that line.
<v Speaker 2>I know we can't. So after his death, the regulators
<v Speaker 2>got Lawrence and instead of like arresting people, they used
<v Speaker 2>it as like hunting licenses, like we're gonna go kill
<v Speaker 2>these guys.
<v Speaker 1>And speaking about historical accuracy. Dick Brewer was really like, no,
<v Speaker 1>we need to arrest these guys. We don't need to
<v Speaker 1>just gun him down. And Billy and basically everybody else
<v Speaker 1>was like, nope, we're taking these guys out. They killed
<v Speaker 1>our boss. We're taking them out.
<v Speaker 2>That great scene in Young Guns where they catch Baker
<v Speaker 2>and Martin, they actually capture them at the at the
<v Speaker 2>river Benda. We don't really know exactly what happened at
<v Speaker 2>that moment. Right, three guys ended up dead. Baker yep,
<v Speaker 2>McCloskey yeah, and Martin right.
<v Speaker 1>And McCloskey was the guy who had been deputized with
<v Speaker 1>him as one of the regulators. But Billy, we don't
<v Speaker 1>know what happened. But in the movie, Billy says he's
<v Speaker 1>a trader. I know he's a trader. Has been with
<v Speaker 1>the Murphy Dolan gang. Oh yeah, and you see him,
<v Speaker 1>you know, shoot the guy in the forehead point blank.
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty it's intense too. Yeah, that's all that.
<v Speaker 2>That's not what you did.
<v Speaker 1>What do you do? What do you do?
<v Speaker 2>He knows what he did that scene when he blows
<v Speaker 2>that guy at the back of his head out right. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they used a little squib and ground hamburger meat gruesome murder.
<v Speaker 2>And so later on in the movie when Alex McSween
<v Speaker 2>gets shot, they don't use any squibs because they're afraid
<v Speaker 2>it is going to be rated r.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, no, worse. Yeah, like they were. There was
<v Speaker 1>so much blood that they thought they were not going
<v Speaker 1>to get any no kids watching this movie. Okay, So
<v Speaker 1>over to Tombstone, Over Tombstone.
<v Speaker 5>And hell's come on with me.
<v Speaker 1>Hells coming with me over to Tombstone. So again we've
<v Speaker 1>got I'll start with our writer again because from what
<v Speaker 1>I've read, he is really the guy behind why this
<v Speaker 1>movie was so good. Okay, he's his name's Kevin Jarry.
<v Speaker 1>He started out as an actor on like Flipper, like
<v Speaker 1>as a kid.
<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, he was.
<v Speaker 1>He was one of the actors on Flipper, but he
<v Speaker 1>was I was totally into Old West and Civil War history,
<v Speaker 1>huge historical you know, just dove into that. And so
<v Speaker 1>he decided to start writing things. And one of the
<v Speaker 1>first things, one of the first screenwriting jobs that he
<v Speaker 1>has is with a movie that you and I both
<v Speaker 1>have talked about before. Okay, Rambo First Blood Part two.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, but Rambo, right, but when we talked about it,
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't Kevin Jarry who had written it. It was yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it was James Cameron exactly. And so I was like, what, okay,
<v Speaker 1>And then even when I had read about James Cameron's script,
<v Speaker 1>Sylvester Stallone was like, yeah, no, none of that was
<v Speaker 1>actually James Cameron stuff. I pretty much did all of that.
<v Speaker 1>So it sounds like Kevin Jari wrote something, and then
<v Speaker 1>James Cameron tried to make that better, and then Sylvester
<v Speaker 1>Stallone said this is still crap and readd the whole
<v Speaker 1>thing anyway.
<v Speaker 2>That's kind of his m O.
<v Speaker 1>But yes, yeah, but interestingly, the director on Rambo First
<v Speaker 1>Blood Part two. Yes is George Cosmotos, Yes, who will
<v Speaker 1>come up here in just a little bit, right.
<v Speaker 2>Right, So who directed Tombstone?
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question.
<v Speaker 2>That is a good question.
<v Speaker 1>We will get to that in just a minute. Okay, Okay.
<v Speaker 1>So Kevin Jari then does another script for this movie
<v Speaker 1>called Glory, which ends up being a huge success historically
<v Speaker 1>accurate and a huge success. It's like the breakout movie
<v Speaker 1>for Denzel Washington. It made Matthew Broderick a real actor
<v Speaker 1>instead of just one of the kid actors. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>it was really well received. And so he's kind of
<v Speaker 1>writing that ladder up and so he's like, Okay, the
<v Speaker 1>next movie I want to do is Dracula.
<v Speaker 2>Really Yeah? What Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>He's like, I really want to get it right. I
<v Speaker 1>want to get as much historically accurate as I can.
<v Speaker 1>And so he's like he's diving into the history of
<v Speaker 1>Flat the Impaler, He's going to Transylvan. He spends years
<v Speaker 1>developing the script, and I think he meets Winona writer
<v Speaker 1>at some point he's like, Hey, I think you'd be
<v Speaker 1>great in this movie that I'm writing right now about Dracula.
<v Speaker 1>WHOA And she's like oh, that sounds great. And then
<v Speaker 1>later on she says something to Francis Ford Coppola, who's like, oh, no, no,
<v Speaker 1>don't be in that one, being the one that I'm making. Oh,
<v Speaker 1>and so they and this is something that happens a
<v Speaker 1>lot in Hollywood. They will make two movies about the
<v Speaker 1>same event at the same time, and it's really a
<v Speaker 1>race to the box office. Does that sound familiar right now?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it absolutely happened with Tombstone.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. We had Tombstone come out, and then what
<v Speaker 1>like six months later, whyet Rup came out?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, whyet Arb with Kevin Costner and Dennis Quaid as
<v Speaker 2>Doc Hollywood.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Doc Hollywood, Doc, Doc Hollywood is agreement.
<v Speaker 2>I can't believe.
<v Speaker 1>It's what Michael Jus performances. I think I liked it
<v Speaker 1>best when he said, you're a daisy if you do
<v Speaker 1>Doc Holliday. Yeah, my gosh, thank you very much.
<v Speaker 2>So, uh what podcast am I on here?
<v Speaker 1>And so he is devastated, right like the Francis Ford
<v Speaker 1>Coppola is making Dracula and basically the studio says, sorry,
<v Speaker 1>we're pulling the plug. I mean he was in like
<v Speaker 1>Middle Europe at the time doing research and I like
<v Speaker 1>to we'll pulling the plug. And so, like years of
<v Speaker 1>his time down, the dream sucks. So he comes back devastated,
<v Speaker 1>but he rallies and says, Okay, I'm gonna do an
<v Speaker 1>Old West script. That's what I want to do right,
<v Speaker 1>and I want to do it right. I want to
<v Speaker 1>get it historically accurate. And so he enlists the help
<v Speaker 1>of a guy named Jeff Moray and another guy named
<v Speaker 1>Jim Dunham. All Right, He's like, I want to get
<v Speaker 1>this as close to right as I can, and again
<v Speaker 1>spends months years getting this script developed. And while he's talking,
<v Speaker 1>Jim Dunham says to him, he says, Hey, I don't
<v Speaker 1>know if you've read the Walter noble Burns book called Tombstone,
<v Speaker 1>but if you're going to cover the confrontation scene between
<v Speaker 1>Doc Holliday and Johnny Ringo, be sure to use the
<v Speaker 1>line I'm your Hookleberry. That's my game.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 1>So that line came from the book Tombstone by Walter
<v Speaker 1>noble Burns.
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So then later Kevin asked Jeff, He's like, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to find the motivation on these guys. I
<v Speaker 1>can get the facts, but I'm not sure about the motivation.
<v Speaker 1>And I can't figure out why Wyatt liked Doc And
<v Speaker 1>Jeff said, I think it's because he made him laugh.
<v Speaker 2>I think that's genius. Oh yeah, the Alchemist's performance is
<v Speaker 2>Doc hollo Day as Doc Holliday is phenomenal. Why whatever
<v Speaker 2>do you mean?
<v Speaker 1>Maybe popas is not your game?
<v Speaker 2>Laughter?
<v Speaker 1>I know, let's have a spelling contest.
<v Speaker 2>And he's hilarious.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, yes, I mean he he makes you laugh. He's
<v Speaker 1>saying things in this deadband way without a smile, and
<v Speaker 1>he's hysterical.
<v Speaker 2>If you haven't seen have you seen the documentary called
<v Speaker 2>val I haven't seen it yet. Oh it's fantastic. And
<v Speaker 2>in fact, I went back after watching that documentary, I
<v Speaker 2>watched Tombstone and the Doors and Top Gun. Oh yeah,
<v Speaker 2>his range is amazing.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a tragedy. So another guy who's of importance,
<v Speaker 1>this is this is some good stuff here that you
<v Speaker 1>remember the character Texas Jack Vermilion. He's the guy with
<v Speaker 1>like the longer hair when the Yeah, okay, so that
<v Speaker 1>actor's name is Peter Shaiko. Okay, but he's also a
<v Speaker 1>Western historian, like they stuck him in this part. But
<v Speaker 1>really he's more. He's more behind the scenes kind of guy,
<v Speaker 1>and so his job was to get the guns for
<v Speaker 1>all of the characters, and so, like they because of
<v Speaker 1>what happened with Dracula, Kevin Jarry didn't want anybody to
<v Speaker 1>know what kind of script he was working on because
<v Speaker 1>he didn't want anybody to come in and steal it
<v Speaker 1>out from under him.
<v Speaker 2>Again like Kevin Costner.
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, okay, and so he's like keeping things secret, but
<v Speaker 1>he has to, you know, get things from different people.
<v Speaker 1>He's looking for guns in the situation, and finally he
<v Speaker 1>gives Peter Shariko an idea of that they're making a
<v Speaker 1>movie to shootout at the OK Corral, right, Okay. He's like,
<v Speaker 1>I need the guns for these guys. And he's like, okay,
<v Speaker 1>no problem. I know that Doc Holliday carried a seven
<v Speaker 1>and a half inch colt and Kevin Jarry's like, uh no,
<v Speaker 1>it's too big. He's like, what I thought you said
<v Speaker 1>you want to be historically actor. He goes, I do,
<v Speaker 1>but I also wanted to be able to twirl the
<v Speaker 1>gun a little bit. And that's too big, right, And
<v Speaker 1>he's like, okay, well that was also Ringo's gun. He's
<v Speaker 1>like oh yeah, I want Ringo to do a lot
<v Speaker 1>of twirling. So can you change both of those two
<v Speaker 1>like a four and a three quarter inch or something
<v Speaker 1>like that. He's like, all right, fine, as what we do.
<v Speaker 1>And so that's what they end up with is the
<v Speaker 1>shorter guns they can do their fancy twirling right. And
<v Speaker 1>then it happens again, like he's like, Okay, well, what's
<v Speaker 1>what gun is Sheriff bi Han going to have. He's like, listen,
<v Speaker 1>he was a dapper guy. I think that probably he's
<v Speaker 1>going to get the most recent gun that's out there
<v Speaker 1>for sheriffs at the time, since he's a sheriff and
<v Speaker 1>there was this four inch sheriff's model. And Jerry again says, no,
<v Speaker 1>I want him to have like a dainty gun. I
<v Speaker 1>want like those tiny guns. He's like. So he goes
<v Speaker 1>to this place in Orange County called Little John's, which
<v Speaker 1>has the old West guns, you know, like the high
<v Speaker 1>end guns that you can get, and the guy John
<v Speaker 1>that Little John's John is like, hey, we we've got
<v Speaker 1>an auction coming up. You should check it out. I
<v Speaker 1>think there'd be some stuff you'd be interested in. He's like, okay,
<v Speaker 1>He's like, here's the catalog. He starts flipping through the catalog.
<v Speaker 1>They have the original B hand gun, like the actual
<v Speaker 1>gun that Sheriff Behn owned is coming up for auction
<v Speaker 1>and it's the exact model that Peter Sireko was trying
<v Speaker 1>to convince Kevin jar to use. So he's like, I
<v Speaker 1>need to take this, and he drives all the way
<v Speaker 1>back to Jarr's house and he just holds it open
<v Speaker 1>for him in front of him, and Jarr's like, okay,
<v Speaker 1>we can use that gun.
<v Speaker 5>Wow.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, So who did We've touched it already. You
<v Speaker 1>know who Kevin Jarry wanted to play wi at.
<v Speaker 2>Ar Kevin Costner. Yeah, that's what I mean, what happened
<v Speaker 2>with that thing?
<v Speaker 1>Okay? So Kostner had been in Silverado in eighty five,
<v Speaker 1>which is I mean, you look at the eighties, there
<v Speaker 1>are very few Western movies that are inequality, right, but
<v Speaker 1>Silverado is one of them, and it was Kevin Costner's
<v Speaker 1>breakout performance, right, And then obviously he ends up doing
<v Speaker 1>very well in the genre.
<v Speaker 2>Later on he moves on to baseball.
<v Speaker 1>Well, but I mean he's still he's got open range,
<v Speaker 1>he's got dances with wolves, I mean it's he's good
<v Speaker 1>at doing the cowboys stuff.
<v Speaker 2>He is doing. It's baseballs and cowboys.
<v Speaker 1>Cowboys reminds me when he shows up to one of
<v Speaker 1>the producer's house, he's in the bomber jacket and the
<v Speaker 1>baseball cap and it's supposed to be talking about a
<v Speaker 1>wider script and all he's got is a bottle of
<v Speaker 1>Stowly vodka. He's like, please tell me, you guys have
<v Speaker 1>some orange juice. And all he did was sit there
<v Speaker 1>and make screw drivers all day. The scrived it all
<v Speaker 1>sidebar anyway, so he calls up Kevin Costner, and there
<v Speaker 1>are a lot of conflicting stories about how this actually
<v Speaker 1>all played out, but the clear thing is that Kevin
<v Speaker 1>Costner says, no, no, thank you. What we get from
<v Speaker 1>both Kevin Costner and from Kevin Jari is Kevin Costner
<v Speaker 1>had already been working on a He had this idea
<v Speaker 1>for like a big mini series about Wyat's life, and
<v Speaker 1>so he was like, I don't want to do this.
<v Speaker 1>I want to do mine. Mine's good and yours is okay, right,
<v Speaker 1>which he also said he didn't read it, so it
<v Speaker 1>didn't really make any sense. But anyway, he's out before
<v Speaker 1>you move on from Kevin Costner, gohead.
<v Speaker 2>You know what role Kevin Costner stole from Kurt Russell.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, we've talked about it in our previous episode on
<v Speaker 1>Bulderham Versus Major League.
<v Speaker 2>I find that fascinating. Kurt Russell really wanted the part
<v Speaker 2>of Crash Davis in Bull Durham, right, Kevin Costner took
<v Speaker 2>it right.
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Russell was a professional baseball player, I know, I know,
<v Speaker 1>and he did get the part.
<v Speaker 2>Kevin Costner was not the best player in his high
<v Speaker 2>school team, right, and so you got to think that
<v Speaker 2>there's some satisfaction Kurt Russell taking over this movie and
<v Speaker 2>just killing Kevin Costner at the movie theater.
<v Speaker 1>Apparently it was Apparently on the set there were two
<v Speaker 1>things you didn't talk about in front of Kurt Russell.
<v Speaker 1>One was machine Rain and the other was Kevin Costner.
<v Speaker 2>Really.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now they ended up doing twenty thousand miles to Graceland. Yeah, exactly?
<v Speaker 1>How about that they made up? I guess, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I became drinking buddies or whatever would bury the hatchet.
<v Speaker 1>So Kevin Jari has written this epic, awesome, historically accurate
<v Speaker 1>script and he is slated to direct. Okay, Okay, so.
<v Speaker 2>This is interesting. We're getting into it now, right.
<v Speaker 1>So he's picking out people, right. One of the actors
<v Speaker 1>that gets the script is a guy that we've talked
<v Speaker 1>about also, Michael Bean. Yeah, and so he Michael Bean's like,
<v Speaker 1>I would like to be Doc Holliday please because that
<v Speaker 1>looks like an awesome part, right, And they're like, okay,
<v Speaker 1>we'll let him know, and they're like, okay, Val Kilmer
<v Speaker 1>is probably gonna do that. When he's like, well, crap, okay,
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a wait the guy who Vlkilmer is against
<v Speaker 1>the guy who Doc Hollidays against Johnny Ringo. Can I
<v Speaker 1>have that part? And they're like, yeah, you can, you
<v Speaker 1>can have that part. Okay. So he meets with Kevin
<v Speaker 1>Jarr and this is interesting. Kevin Jari tells him that, like,
<v Speaker 1>this is like a piece that he's writing for his girlfriend.
<v Speaker 1>Lisa's aym Like, he's like, I want her to be Josie.
<v Speaker 1>She was into movies with Rob Low and James Spader.
<v Speaker 1>She was kind of, you know, on the fringe of
<v Speaker 1>being somebody interesting. But he wanted her to be play
<v Speaker 1>the part of Josie in this one. Yeah. So he
<v Speaker 1>tells that to Michael Bean. Michael Bean's like, yeah, this
<v Speaker 1>is great. This guy's got passionate about the script. I'm
<v Speaker 1>excited to be a part of it. And he ends
<v Speaker 1>up writing to Tucson with Powers Booth and he says,
<v Speaker 1>Powers Booth is hilarious. Just told stories the whole time,
<v Speaker 1>told about how when they were shooting Extreme Prejudice he
<v Speaker 1>lost the weekend with Nick Nolty. And when he says that,
<v Speaker 1>he's like, I was it was Friday afternoon. I was
<v Speaker 1>going to his trailer to say bye, you know, have
<v Speaker 1>a good weekend, bye bye, well bye, And he says
<v Speaker 1>in the next thing that I knew it was Monday
<v Speaker 1>morning and they were knocking on the trailer door and
<v Speaker 1>he was up ready to go to this film again.
<v Speaker 2>Why does that not so?
<v Speaker 1>Michael Bean arrives at the reading, right, they are all
<v Speaker 1>there and tuson to do the reading together. He's pretty
<v Speaker 1>much the whole cast is there, and he says he
<v Speaker 1>and Bell Kilmer are sizing each other up from the
<v Speaker 1>get go, right, but he says, I had not taken
<v Speaker 1>the time or I hadn't found the time to learn
<v Speaker 1>the correct pronunciation of the Latin right. He said, Val
<v Speaker 1>not only knew how to pronounce it, he knew what
<v Speaker 1>it all meant. Ah, And he was like, yeah, I'm
<v Speaker 1>losing this battle. And like as soon as he has
<v Speaker 1>that thought, somebody projectile vomits all over the table. And
<v Speaker 1>reading it's over, he's like, okay, I got some time
<v Speaker 1>to catch up here. So at the beginning, Kurt Russell
<v Speaker 1>is saying, hey, this is a great script, but it's
<v Speaker 1>too long. We need to cut twenty pages of this,
<v Speaker 1>and Kevin Jarry was like, no, we're not going to
<v Speaker 1>cut it. I've got this. This is my dream piece,
<v Speaker 1>this is my whole life. I'm not going to let
<v Speaker 1>this happen, right, And what ends up happening is Kevin
<v Speaker 1>Jarry making like this john Ford esque super long, stately
<v Speaker 1>and slow, old kind of western right, and it sucks. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>he's doing these long shots and I mean not only
<v Speaker 1>long in time, but like far away, so you don't
<v Speaker 1>have coverage, you can't do good, you don't have your
<v Speaker 1>editing options to do this, and so that's frustrating the producers.
<v Speaker 1>And then he is being like my way or the
<v Speaker 1>highway to everybody, cast and crew, and he's a first
<v Speaker 1>time director. This is the first movie he's ever directed,
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, Kurt Russell, shut up, shut up, you
<v Speaker 1>can go to him. You think sorry, After like four weeks,
<v Speaker 1>everybody is despising Kevin Jarry, and Michael Bean says, like,
<v Speaker 1>four weeks in, I pull onto my trailer. I'm like, listen, dude,
<v Speaker 1>Filmmaking is a collaborative art, right, you can't just not
<v Speaker 1>listen to everybody. But he said it was too late,
<v Speaker 1>fired him on f D and so the last thing
<v Speaker 1>that he sees is Kevin Jarr with like this soul
<v Speaker 1>crushing look on his face in the hotel with his
<v Speaker 1>bags packed out the door.
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, that's fascinating, though I've never heard that story.
<v Speaker 1>So your original question, who directed it? Well, once this
<v Speaker 1>is done, they don't even know if the movie's going
<v Speaker 1>to keep going or not. Right, they've been shooting for
<v Speaker 1>four weeks. They decide they're not going to use any
<v Speaker 1>of Kevin Jarry's shots. They're going to start basically over
<v Speaker 1>from scratch. And so Kurt Russell and one of the
<v Speaker 1>producers named Jim Jacks, they get together and start working
<v Speaker 1>on the script and they cut out the twenty pages
<v Speaker 1>and Kurt Russell has said what I did to maintain
<v Speaker 1>the script and still cut out these huge chunks was
<v Speaker 1>to cut my own part. Yeah, that's interesting. But like
<v Speaker 1>Robert Burke, he was fifth built, like he was built
<v Speaker 1>above Bill Paxson and Sam Elliott. Yeah, but you don't
<v Speaker 1>hear any lines from him because they cut all of
<v Speaker 1>those parts, and so that became a little bit strange.
<v Speaker 1>They brought in the guy we talked about a little
<v Speaker 1>while ago, George Kus Mottos. Huh, Well, people just said
<v Speaker 1>he was a jackass, like he was overbearing. They actually
<v Speaker 1>had to pay, like the studio had to pay forty
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars in fines because of his abusive conduct. Michael
<v Speaker 1>Bean said he saw he saw this happen, like when
<v Speaker 1>they were shooting the opening wedding party scene. Yes, because
<v Speaker 1>Mottos says to one of the Hispanic extras standing next
<v Speaker 1>to Michael Bean, tell that Mexican with the big tis
<v Speaker 1>to take two steps forward, and this guy.
<v Speaker 2>Got in trouble.
<v Speaker 1>What are you talking about, right? Yeah, And he says
<v Speaker 1>what has been said that is true is that he
<v Speaker 1>didn't really direct this. Michael Bean said he had said
<v Speaker 1>three words to the guy. He said hello to him
<v Speaker 1>at the beginning and at the end he said off like,
<v Speaker 1>it was not a good relationship that this guy had
<v Speaker 1>with the cast. But Kurt Russell was really the guy
<v Speaker 1>doing this stuff. If you look at the Wikipedia page,
<v Speaker 1>you're not going to get this information. What you're going
<v Speaker 1>to get from Wikipedia was I'm quoting here. The new
<v Speaker 1>director brought a demanding and hard nosed sensibility. Yeah, no,
<v Speaker 1>he didn't.
<v Speaker 2>This is fascinating.
<v Speaker 1>He was a jerk.
<v Speaker 2>I really wanted you to say that, Michael Bean. His
<v Speaker 2>last two words were well back.
<v Speaker 1>So when posed with the question to Michael Bean, He's like,
<v Speaker 1>did Kurt Russell really direct this? And Michael Bean said, well,
<v Speaker 1>it indirect me And I don't mean that insensitively. I'm
<v Speaker 1>not saying he's a bad guy. The film wouldn't have
<v Speaker 1>happened but for him getting involved and taking over and leading, right,
<v Speaker 1>he said, But he understood that we were all quality
<v Speaker 1>actors and he let us do our job, and that's
<v Speaker 1>how this movie got made.
<v Speaker 2>The cast of Tombstone is really, I mean, super strong.
<v Speaker 1>It's top notch.
<v Speaker 2>I mean you got Kurt Russell, yep, you got Val Kilner, yep,
<v Speaker 2>you got ours Booth and Michael Bean you've got Dana Delaney,
<v Speaker 2>You've got Stephen Lange, underrated bad guy, Bill Paxson, Sam Elliott,
<v Speaker 2>Charlton Heston, Charlton Heston, Charlton freaking Hasten.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, Johnny Ringo had a scene with Charlton Helston's character
<v Speaker 1>Henry Hucker, but it was filmed by Kevin Jari, so
<v Speaker 1>they had to cut it.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I got some names for you, Okay. So the
<v Speaker 2>cast is phenomenal, right, I mean the brothers, I mean
<v Speaker 2>Kurt Russell, Bill Paxon, Sam Elliott. I mean I believe
<v Speaker 2>that those guys would walk down and clubbed me with
<v Speaker 2>the heel of their gun, you know, absolutely all right.
<v Speaker 2>So one of the original thoughts about casting Doc Holliday,
<v Speaker 2>Ye William Dafoe, that woun entire how about that? You
<v Speaker 2>know why he didn't get no because Buena Vista was
<v Speaker 2>too scared because he had just kind of recently been
<v Speaker 2>in Last Tentpation of Christ m For those of you
<v Speaker 2>who hasn't seen that or don't remember that, that was
<v Speaker 2>very controversial movie about the life of Jesus. Right, Mickey
<v Speaker 2>Rourke was discussed to play Johnny Ringo. Okay, at that time,
<v Speaker 2>I could see it. Maybe Robert Mitcham was supposed to
<v Speaker 2>be old Man Clanton, like the Robert Mitcham.
<v Speaker 1>Right, Well, Robert Mitcham was the one that had done
<v Speaker 1>the narrating, right well, yeah, it was that was him
<v Speaker 1>narrating the beginning.
<v Speaker 2>The reason why he's the narrator and not in it
<v Speaker 2>is because he told off the horse and broke his back.
<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh.
<v Speaker 1>Uh.
<v Speaker 2>And also longtime Western actor Glenn Ford was supposed to
<v Speaker 2>be Marshall White. Hmmmn, I mean you talk about I
<v Speaker 2>mean Rob Mitcham and Glenn Ford and Charlton Heston the
<v Speaker 2>cast freaking unbelievable. But I wanted to point out Michael
<v Speaker 2>Bean and Bill Paxton had been in The Lords of
<v Speaker 2>Discipline together. Yeah, and they had also been in Terminator.
<v Speaker 1>This is I'm going to tell the story now. This
<v Speaker 1>is actually the fifth movie that they were in together. Fifth, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>he said. But Michael Bean said it was weird. They
<v Speaker 1>would faction off like the herps. The actors playing the
<v Speaker 1>IRPs would go do their own thing, and the actors
<v Speaker 1>playing the cowboys would go do their and they they
<v Speaker 1>formed their own clicks. He's like, I've been in this
<v Speaker 1>five movies with Bill Packson and we barely spoke the
<v Speaker 1>entire time, like we had dinner one night and ended
<v Speaker 1>it early.
<v Speaker 2>That's crazy, man, that's crazy.
<v Speaker 1>But I mean I can see it, like the I
<v Speaker 1>can see the camaraderie of the Cowboys. I can see
<v Speaker 1>the brotherly love of the IRPs. That something to it,
<v Speaker 1>you know, hang out with the people that you're supposed
<v Speaker 1>to be close with in the movie to create that yond.
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of like the Greasers and the Soshi, right,
<v Speaker 2>the Jets and the Shark. So those five movies are
<v Speaker 2>Lords of Discipline, Yeah, Terminator, Yeah, Aliens splashback to her
<v Speaker 2>Aliens episode, Yeah, Navy Seals and Tombstone Yeah boom. All right,
<v Speaker 2>you ready talk cast on young Guns.
<v Speaker 1>So before we move on to the casting of Young
<v Speaker 1>Guns and Young Guns too, I got a couple of
<v Speaker 1>interesting cast members for you. Are you ready for this?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So the part of Billy Claiborne in Tombstone played
<v Speaker 1>by Wyatt the Third And I know you don't know
<v Speaker 1>this because I asked you beforehand, Ed Ed Bailey the
<v Speaker 1>guy at the beginning, Yes, why Ed? Does this mean
<v Speaker 1>we are not friends? Yeah? Played by mister frank Stallone.
<v Speaker 2>I did not even recognize him.
<v Speaker 1>I know, right, I saw that and I was like,
<v Speaker 1>who was who was Frank Stallone in this? And I'm
<v Speaker 1>like him, I'm like, oh my gosh, if you, you know,
<v Speaker 1>take away the feathered hair and you stick a mustache on.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, when you sus you said that, I'm like,
<v Speaker 2>absolutely in a great part.
<v Speaker 6>Does a great job, que the more than over music,
<v Speaker 6>Frank Stallone?
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's all I got. That's all I got
<v Speaker 1>on the cast, so we can keep going.
<v Speaker 2>All right.
<v Speaker 1>I will have to say, it's interesting that we just
<v Speaker 1>did that and we did not talk about Dana Delaney
<v Speaker 1>at all.
<v Speaker 2>Let's hey, okay, let's talk about Dan Lane.
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Now, remember this part was supposed to go to
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Jerry's girlfriend Lisa's name. Obviously that didn't happen. They
<v Speaker 1>mixed that idea.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you have Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Charlton Asta, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>Stephen Lane, Powers Booth, Michael Ban, Bill Pass. The cast
<v Speaker 2>was outstanding. What do you think about Dan Delaney?
<v Speaker 1>So what I'm reading, I'm going back to when I
<v Speaker 1>texted you. Okay, so last night at I'm sorry, this morning,
<v Speaker 1>at two of five am, I texted you I'm really
<v Speaker 1>thankful for the love story parts of Tombstone so that
<v Speaker 1>I know when I can get up to leave and
<v Speaker 1>get something to eat or look up something on IMDb. Awful.
<v Speaker 2>The love story I told you is really an anchor
<v Speaker 2>around the neck of Tombstone.
<v Speaker 1>Really is.
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't sink the movie, but it drags in. I
<v Speaker 2>don't think they have any chemistry at all.
<v Speaker 1>I'm in the I'm in the kitchen microwaving, and I'm like, better, look,
<v Speaker 1>it's still not over. I got I got out on
<v Speaker 1>her stage performance. I got out on the accidental meeting
<v Speaker 1>as they're riding horses. So I saved myself the agony
<v Speaker 1>of that.
<v Speaker 2>By the way, we forgot to mention Billy zaying yeah
<v Speaker 2>and Jason Priestley Jason Priestley.
<v Speaker 1>What, Yeah, So Jason Priestley, there's something there. I'm gonna
<v Speaker 1>touch that real quick since she s brought it up.
<v Speaker 1>So Jason Priestley was friends with the cowboys and had
<v Speaker 1>gotten deputized by the sheriff, right right, Well, his character
<v Speaker 1>is Billy Breckinridge. Billy Breckinridge wrote a book about whyaet
<v Speaker 1>Art and it was not a flattering book like it
<v Speaker 1>was the other side, and his widow did everything she
<v Speaker 1>could to stop it, but it became one of the
<v Speaker 1>most famous books about Wyatt Art and it was not
<v Speaker 1>a rosy colored picture of him. Wow. Yeah Wow.
<v Speaker 2>Back to Dana Delaney, Yes, sorry, okay, they gave us
<v Speaker 2>nothing with her. You and I talked.
<v Speaker 1>About there's no passion at all in this thing, no
<v Speaker 1>passion at all, And you've got a little bit of
<v Speaker 1>like sexiness when she's in there taking the photograph.
<v Speaker 2>Is there sexiness?
<v Speaker 1>You have a little bit of an attempt at sexiness
<v Speaker 1>whenever she's in there taking the photograph right before the
<v Speaker 1>shootout at the OK Corral.
<v Speaker 2>Which let's just talk about. Yeah, to me, that was
<v Speaker 2>very interesting that actually happened right.
<v Speaker 1>Like she's in that dark lacy thing. Yes, you sent
<v Speaker 1>me a picture today.
<v Speaker 2>You can look it up on the internet. Yes, you
<v Speaker 2>get better look of Josie Erp than you do Dan
<v Speaker 2>de Delaney, absolutely, And Josie Rp was bringing the heat
<v Speaker 2>back then. Man for a woman.
<v Speaker 1>I can see why he was like distracted, was sure, yeah, sure.
<v Speaker 2>So danan Delaney can be sexy in this movie. Munch nothing, no, nothing.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, guys, we're gonna have to stop now. We will
<v Speaker 1>come back next week for part two of Tombston Versus
<v Speaker 1>Young Guns one and two. Be sure to tune in
<v Speaker 1>and hit your subscribe button so that you don't miss
<v Speaker 1>the episode when it comes out on Tuesday, where we
<v Speaker 1>get into some of the coolest facts behind these business.
<v Speaker 2>When we come back, Hell's coming with us. You don't
<v Speaker 2>Hell come in with me.