#39 Stephen

Today's episode is part two in a series. If you 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.720 haven't listened to the first part, Justine, go back. Listen 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:10.760 to that and I'll meet you back here for part two. 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.720 Remember when we did karaoke for my b day? 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:20.000 We never did karaoke on your first day. 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.240 Johnny, Yes, we did. You and I did a duet 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:24.919 Island's in the Stream. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:25.720 Never. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.000 And then we got into a fight on stage because 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.200 you wanted to do the Kenny Rogers part. So we're talking, John, Honestly, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.440 I really enjoyed this conversation, that conversation. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:35.760 I really enjoyed talking. 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.360 You didn't enjoy it at all. Talk again, really looking 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.720 forward to it. Oh well you wish me. Well, that's 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:54.959 like your way of telling me to drop dead. From 0:00:55.040 --> 0:01:01.400 Gimblet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode. 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:10.520 Steven right after the break. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:27.120 Hello, Justine, can you hold on just one second? Okay, Sorry, 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.200 I lost the remote from my TV and so I 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:32.679 have to use my phone as a remote. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.880 A phone is a remote. Brave new world we live in. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:37.560 I know it's amazing, but. 0:01:37.560 --> 0:01:39.120 We have more important things to talk about. 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:40.760 That's true. 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.520 So tell me what happened when we last spoke. Justine 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.240 and her mother had hatched a plan. They were going 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.200 to sit Justine's brother Stephen down so their mom could 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.640 tell him the truth that his dad, Gary wasn't actually 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.600 his biological father. Stephen is trying to save up money, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.920 so he's currently living with their The idea was for 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.600 Justine to go over to the house and lend emotional 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.920 support while her mother came clean. But on the day 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.600 in question, she said, she. 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:14.480 Literally doesn't know what words she's going to say. She 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.560 doesn't know how she's going to form the sentence. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.720 After being afraid for over thirty years. Her mother was 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:25.640 at a total loss about how to finally explain things 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.480 to Stephen. She was paralyzed, so Justine stepped up and 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.320 said she would tell Stephen the news. She'd tell him 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:41.840 the truth about his father. When Justine got to the house, 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.400 she sat down in the living room with Stephen and 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.120 her mom. Justine began by telling Stephen that when she 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.760 was a little kid, Gary had told her a secret 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:54.480 that he forbid her from telling anyone. Justine had always 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.120 felt like the secret she carried with her had created 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:00.680 a wall between her and Stephen, but now she was 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:04.680 ready to share that secret with him. How adopted am I? 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:08.040 Stephen asked, taking a half hearted stab at a joke. 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.799 Stephen has a tendency to laugh and joke around when 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:14.880 things get tense. It's something he calls the need to 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.760 joke to cope. He's been doing it since he was 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.520 a kid. It's something his family often finds inappropriate and 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.280 a little irritating. But today Justine made a point of 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.079 saying he was free to react any way he wanted. 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.519 He could make jokes or get angry or sad, whatever 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:34.080 he needed. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:42.840 Was okay, I'm just like, okay, what's about to happen? 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:44.640 This is Stephen? 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.920 And then she just said dad is not your real dad. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.560 As Justine spoke the words, Stephen's mouth broke into a 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:58.480 huge smile, but no jokes came out. Stephen's smile was 0:03:58.520 --> 0:03:59.320 one of relief. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.320 I had had all this pent up frustration with my father. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.320 To find out that I wasn't actually related to him 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.480 made me feel better that way, as like, oh, so 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:14.640 I don't have to care about him anymore, you know, 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:16.480 I didn't have to feel guilty about that. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.960 Throughout his life, Stephen had to deal with all of 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.560 Gary's bad parenting without the pluses that Justine received. Try 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.960 as hard as Stephen might to bond with his dad, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:32.839 Gary remained emotionally remote. In fact, there were long periods 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.520 where Stephen and Gary didn't even speak. But despite the 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.320 years of bad blood, Stephen says he'd never actually suspected 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.839 Gary wasn't his father. That day when he first asked 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.520 Justine if he was adopted, he was just doing what 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.240 he always does, joking around. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.760 Like what was the most off the wall thing that 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.520 I could guess that she was trying to keep from me? 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.279 And I was like, there's no way this is it, right? 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.279 And if she had his look on her face, and 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:02.040 I was just like, oh, I'm just kidding. My reality 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:07.039 was that Gary was my dad, right, and so really 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:09.240 didn't have any reason to question that at all. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.360 After discovering his true paternity, Stephen decided not to confront 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.320 Gary because it seems that after all the years of 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.960 pretending to be on death's door, this time Gary really 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.760 was dying, and along with his failing physical health, his 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.720 mind was also deteriorating. Recently, Gary's wife let him know 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.839 that the secret about Stephen was out, but it didn't 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.520 throw Gary into a rage. In fact, he didn't react 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.120 much at all. The secret that dictated a family's every 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.559 move for decades was now something Gary was too ill 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:53.760 to even hold on to. In the weeks after learning 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.440 the truth, Stephen kept ruminating and his initial feeling of 0:05:57.480 --> 0:05:59.480 relief grew more complicated. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.800 No, I felt, I don't want to say lost, because 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.040 I feel like that's potentially cliche. Couldn't really focus at work. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:09.840 I just couldn't really get it out of my head. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.440 One thing I kept on telling myself was that it 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.800 doesn't change anything. It's like I was still raised the 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.440 way I was, But then I at the same time, 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.680 it changes everything right as I got I'm thirty three 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.920 years old and I'm just now finding this out. It's 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.920 like having a reality just crushed. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.560 Stephen began spending a lot of time on Facebook. Facebook 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.839 is where he found his biological father, Brian Kirby. From there, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:45.400 he discovered the profiles of Brian's children, Steven's half siblings. 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.839 Stephen would click through, looking at each of their photos 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:49.719 over and over. 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.200 I'd look at it constantly. But it was around Thanksgiving 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.320 where things kind of just came to head. I just 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.760 really felt sad. I felt depressed. We were supposed to 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.720 go as a family over to my Grandma Jones' house, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:03.960 and I just kind of told my mom, it's like 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:08.000 I can't because I was just thinking, like, it's there's 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.240 something missing, you know, what is what is the holidays 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.880 to the Kirby's, What are your Thanksgivings? 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:14.040 Like? 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.200 So Stephen went down to the basement, put on his 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.200 headphones and started playing a favorite song of his by 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.600 a band called Liars. Stephen likes listening to it when 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:35.240 he's trying or writing. Then he chose a half sister 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:36.480 to message on Facebook. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.480 She had a smile that just maybe reminded me of 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:44.560 my own smile. So I wrote her a letter just 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.360 kind of explaining who I was, with the hopes that 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.800 this one had come across as some Arabian prints that 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.240 has millions of dollars. But I can't get to it now. 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:54.880 So send me this and then I'll send you that. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.040 What was it that you that you wrote? 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.560 Well? I could, I mean like I could pull it 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.559 up and read it, but honestly, I am god awful 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.560 at reading out loud. Let me find it real quick. 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:12.880 I've been struggling to figure out how to approach this. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.640 So here I go. All my life, I've never been 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.400 able to relate or connect with my dad. I felt 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.920 different than him in so many ways and never knew why. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.200 Within the last six months, I discovered that my dad 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.160 quote unquote, is not my father. 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.200 Steven starts the message by offering up all the names 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.600 and dates he can anything to prove he's not a scammer. 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:40.320 And I can't help but wonder what your life's like, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.160 what are your hobbies? Who broke your heart? Who do 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:51.160 you love? Dang it? Sorry, try not to cry. Oh, 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.080 the choice is yours. I know this is a lot, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.800 and I don't know if you know about me, but 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.440 I'd rather try to reach out than live a life 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.000 of regret. I would love to meet you, slash hear 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.640 from you, but I unfortunately understand that may take time. 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.280 I don't want anything except to know you. I am happy, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.959 I love a good life. I have a great job. 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:26.640 I am talented, I am artistic slash musical. I love 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.679 my family. I will be here, hoping and dreaming of 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.840 hearing from you until I do. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:44.360 Our. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.080 After Steven sent his message, Kirby started coming out of 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:08.080 the woodwork. In total, he had six new siblings and 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.800 he exchanged messages with several of them. Stephen spent a 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.360 particularly long time messaging with a sister named Shannon, who 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.679 became a sort of point person for the family. Stephen 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.880 asked if Brian, his biological father, had heard what was 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:22.520 going on. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.800 And she said, he's actually right here, and then there 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.680 was a pause. She messaged back and said, he wants 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:33.760 to know if you if you want to meet I 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.360 was like, I was trying to hold back because all 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.880 I wanted to be like was all caps, like yes, 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:42.200 exclamation marks right, And I was like, that would be good. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.760 Shannon suggests that she and Stephen meet up after the holidays, 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.240 and so in early February, they make a plan to 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.880 get a drink at a bar where Shannon used to work, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.040 and the lead up to meeting Shannon and Stephen worries 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.360 he gets uncomfortable in social situations and has trouble maintaining 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.880 eye contact. What if he's too awkward? What if they 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.559 have nothing to talk about. When the night arrives, Stephen 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.080 don's jeans and a plaid shirt and heads to the 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.560 bar where Shannon and he drink beer. They talk about 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.760 jeeps and trucks, about how they have the same round cheeks. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.040 As the evening progresses, Shannon shares details about their father. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.480 She tells Stephen how Brian never learned to swim, how 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.720 he's funny and warm, how he's her best friend. Shannon 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.480 also says that when she was growing up, Brian would 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:40.079 sometimes get drunk and talk about the child he never met. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.200 It turns out that a month before Brian got Stephen's 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:47.040 mother pregnant, he'd gotten someone else pregnant, the woman he'd 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:52.080 eventually marry, Shannon's mom. Shannon is only a month older 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:59.360 than Stephen, even though they're the same age. Throughout the evening, 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:01.920 they each try to play the role of the older sibling. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.320 Stephen orders breadsticks to ensure Shannon is eating something, and 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.400 Shannon refills Stephen's water glass to make sure he'll be 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.440 okay to drive. In this way, they take care of 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:19.960 each other. After that night, Shannon begins working on a 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.040 plan for Brian and Stephen to meet, and Stephen says 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.040 he'll update me when a plan is set, but then 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.720 months pass and I don't hear anything. Finally, on the 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.800 first of April twenty twenty, a little over a year 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.000 after this whole thing started, Justine sends me an email 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.000 that reads, we need to talk. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.120 Okay, so a couple of things. I went, let's thank 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:42.360 you on. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.560 So Stephen and his biological father still haven't met, but 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.560 Justine tells me that Stephen is about to meet the 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.679 rest of the Kirby siblings, all of them and all 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.000 at once. But it won't be over dinner or drinks. 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.760 They are all going to scirch for his biological dad, 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:08.080 who went missing a couple days ago. Whoa, and it's 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.840 like not looking good. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.920 The Indiana State Police put out a missing person's alert 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:17.199 the day before, stating that Brian Kirby was last seen 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.679 wearing a gray sweatshirt with Tennessee printed in white letters 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.960 and blue jeans. He has blue eyes and red hair. 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.000 He is believed to be in danger and may require 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:30.960 medical assistance. Neither the alert nor any of the news 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.800 coverage offers an explanation for Brian Kirby's disappearance, but Justine 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.240 heard through the grapevine that Brian had been out with 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.760 a friend and the friend's girlfriend and that things turned violent. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.200 There was some kind of a dispute and I don't know. 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.080 At first. The girlfriend said that her boyfriend came back 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.920 home and like she had to change his clothes, that 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.880 his shirt was bloody. Then a couple days later she 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:58.840 changed that story and said it was muddy. 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.320 Stephen and Brian were supposed to meet a few weeks earlier, 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.160 but Brian has lung disease, and when COVID hit, Stephen 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.360 worried that it might be better to postpone. So now 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.000 Stephen is heading out in the height of a pandemic 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.560 with siblings who are strangers to him, to help search 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.080 for the missing father he never got to meet locally. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.640 Now this he is waged three news. The Kirby siblings 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.000 never find their father, but the police do. 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.880 A murder mystery over tonight after a Jennings County man's 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.480 body was found burned with his remains scattered in different 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:35.600 parts of the county. 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:37.720 In May of twenty twenty, the police arrest a man 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.480 named Alan Morantos, who pleads guilty to the murder, loading 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.360 the body in the vehicle, burning the body at another location, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.120 and then discarding. 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.360 The remains in very spots around the county. 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:52.520 Brentos James kind of jails. Steven stops going to work 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.440 for weeks. He just crashes with his new sister Deanna. 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640 Although they just met, she lets him sleep on her 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.560 cow in the trailer she shares with her two kids. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:16.600 In Brian's obituary, Stephen is listed among his children. I 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:19.880 reach out to Stephen, but don't hear back. Justine tells 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.480 me that Stephen's been depressed, that he's not ready to 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.920 talk about Brian's death. When I think back to Stephen's 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:31.120 vulnerability and enthusiasm around meeting Brian, it's easy to understand why. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.640 And then several months later, Justine writes with more news. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.800 After a long stay in hospice, her father Gary died. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.600 She says she was grateful to be with him when 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:43.160 it happened. 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.760 So this is your daddy. We again to the real 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.640 end of this stape. I love him more than anything 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:50.200 in my life. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:50.800 Take care. 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:52.680 Mike. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.600 Hello, you have reached Justine's voice fan. Leave a message. 0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:07.280 Oh and tell me what is something that you are 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:08.320 really good at? 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.360 I Hey, Justine, it's Jonathan uh And I guess I'm 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.080 really good at keeping in touch over the years. Okay, 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:18.120 I'll talk to you soon. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:18.280 I hope. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.200 At this point, it's been over two years since Justine 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.200 and I first spoke. In a year since Brian was murdered. 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.280 When Justine and I connect, she tells me that in 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.440 recent months, she's been worrying that her decision to reveal 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.080 Stephen's paternity was a bad decision. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:40.760 I think, like I'm still at a point where I 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:47.800 feel part of me a little guilty for like, this 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.680 sounds so silly that for telling the secret that I 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:51.920 wasn't ever supposed to tell. 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.400 You know, and you mean guilty toward to your. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:17:00.600 Father, I guess so, or even like even towards it 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.800 doesn't make sense. I know it was the right thing 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:04.600 to do, but it's hard for me to say that 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:09.280 like that it was a good that I feel good about. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.280 I don't know. Maybe part of me feels guilty that 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:13.760 I held it. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:14.200 In so long. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:15.239 Maybe that's what it is. 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.399 I think I'm just not fully I haven't fully processed 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.400 it to the point where I feel like I did 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:23.000 a good thing. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:28.440 Justine is left wondering what telling Stephen actually accomplished. There 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.679 was a wall between them before telling him the truth, 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.320 and now there was still a wall, and because of her, 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.680 Stephen's grief was doubled. He was forced to live through 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.919 the death of not one but two fathers all in 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.640 the space of less than a year. Stephen has been distant, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.960 pulling away, and Justine fears he might be angry with her, like. 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.960 Things just haven't been the same with us, and. 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:54.840 I don't I don't know. 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:55.920 If that's because of. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:01.879 The situation with me telling him or maybe I just 0:18:02.400 --> 0:18:04.520 maybe at some point I need to hear it from him. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.280 You know that it was a good thing. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.400 It's a hard question to ask someone. Was my crushing 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:16.720 your reality a good thing? But after the break, Justine 0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.040 tries to ask Stephen. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:18.320 Just that. 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.159 We had my son Griffin's third birthday party. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.680 Today's the day Justine and Stephen are set to talk, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.720 and Justine joins the zoom first. 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.640 This is the best age for presents, he like. After 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.120 the day's ever, he was like, Mom, I love presence, 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:55.000 just like. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.359 In the close to two years since that day in 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.960 their mom's living room when Justine told Stephen the truth, 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.480 the two of them have never sat down for a 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.359 heart to heart. Stephen and Justine have both recently moved 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.920 and are living farther apart than they ever have. Justine 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.280 in Illinois, Stephen in Arkansas. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:14.800 Hello, howdy. 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.280 Steven's been alone in the small rural town for a 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.560 few months. Now he's down there fixing up their grandmother's cabin, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.760 and his red hair and beard have grown shaggy. He 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.080 joins the zoom from a couch a quaint curtain behind him. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.200 Are there grandmotherly type things in the back? It looks 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:32.919 like there's some little chatchkiz. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:38.720 What are some Betty Boop figurines? She's much to collect things. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.480 Before the call, Justine told me she was feeling nervous. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.439 So I take it upon myself to get the ball rolling. 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.120 One of the things that I talked about with Justine 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:55.840 was whether her telling you, But then I stopped myself. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:20:00.600 After years of having their relationship middlemanned by parents by secrets, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.399 maybe Stephen and Justine need a chance to talk to 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:06.560 one another directly. Well, maybe I should, I should allow 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:10.480 just justin. Maybe like you should just you should just ask. 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.000 Yeah. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:20.199 I don't know why. It's making me feel emotional, but 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:23.159 you know, I guess I. 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:31.359 Never thought to ask you, like directly, Like, uh, do 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:37.320 you think it was a good thing that that the 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:40.520 truth came out? I guess that I I guess that 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.440 I told you you know about that? 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.919 Well, Justine wipes her eyes. Stephen tries to offer an 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:51.600 answer by way of a story. It seems that a 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.480 few months after Brian's murder, Steven set off on a 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.640 trip to Kentucky to meet Brian's brother Barry. They ended 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.120 up spending the day together. Stephen helped Barry feed his cats, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.320 and Barry took Stephen around to some Kirby family landmarks 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.359 in the area. Then they sat down to eat together 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:10.600 with some cousins, young nieces and nephews. 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.600 And then that afternoon where we went outside and we 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.800 were sitting out there, and then Barry came out and 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.919 he said called ambulance. You could just barely understand what 0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:22.080 he was saying because he had just started coughing up blood. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.080 Oh my god, I mean like it was. It was 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:25.360 splashing on a driveway. 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:29.520 As it turns out, two weeks earlier, Barry had been 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.399 in a car crash. He was while being examined at 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:36.160 the hospital that Barry learned he had undiagnosed lung cancer. 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.760 That's how he came to be coughing up blood on 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:39.880 the driveway that day. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.879 And the first thing that I thought of was the kids. 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.160 I told the kids. As I get in a four wheeler, 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:50.600 and I need you to drive down the driveway and 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:53.040 then go up that trail and I'll be right there, 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.800 because I didn't want them to see that. And I 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:01.120 remember me walking down on a hill to go meet 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:02.800 up with the kids, and I looked back at Barry 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.760 and he was just looking at me with big eyes. 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:08.840 I just kind of nodded my head because we all 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:09.920 knew that that was the end. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.720 By the time Stephen comforted the kids and walked back 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.879 to the house, Barry was dead. 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:22.359 The way I always like to tell it, because I 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:23.800 try to look on the bright side, is said it 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:26.840 was a beautiful day for Barry. It was his last 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.200 day on earth, and he got to visit his grandma's house, 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:33.680 his great grandma's house in the family cemetery. 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:39.320 This story about Uncle Barry doesn't feel like the reassurance 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.920 Justine had been hoping for. In fact, it feels like 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:47.280 the opposite. Yet another blood relative was gone no sooner 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:48.760 than Steven had learned about him. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:54.399 I mean, I cannot understand what it feels like to 0:22:54.440 --> 0:23:00.399 discover one father, lose him horrifically, meet a new uncle, 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:04.360 lose him horrifically, basically in front of your eyes. 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.159 You know, to hear the fact of you know, what 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:10.600 you went through, A lot of people would say, man 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.560 like that, not to cause offense or any of it. 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:15.000 That guy's pretty unlucky. 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:17.520 No, one hundred percent. I know that that's got to 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.720 be everybody's response. But it's all the things that happened, 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.399 We're going to happen regardless of whether I was there 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:28.000 or not. And it's a sad story, but same times, like, 0:23:28.040 --> 0:23:30.320 there's so many good things that come out of it, 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:31.840 you know, as far as me being. 0:23:31.680 --> 0:23:34.600 There, Stephen was able to be a comfort to the 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.960 kids and give Barry a great last day that makes 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:38.520 him proud. 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:42.600 And the fact of the timing of Brian being murdered, 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.640 it's if you can find it positive in that, it's 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:48.040 that it brought me and my sister brothers and sisters 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:50.200 on a curby side closer together a whole lot faster 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:51.600 than what have ever happened before. 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.800 Stephen looks over at Justine and directly addresses the question 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:58.359 of whether learning the truth was a good thing. 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:02.600 Yeah. No, I want to change. There's a lot of 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.959 things I would change, but I don't regret it. I 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.719 should have known and I one of my biggest fears 0:24:09.800 --> 0:24:12.800 always you or mom, the feeling bad or regret or 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:14.560 sorry for me, or like, man, we really shouldn't have 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:16.480 told him. And really it was the greatest thing to 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:19.359 ever It's difficult to say, but it's the greatest thing 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:28.320 that's ever happened to me. I've always felt kind of 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:30.320 like a free spirit in a way, but really kind 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:34.760 of holding myself backward about how what other people would think. 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:40.199 I didn't necessarily realize how lost I was as an 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.399 individual until I was able to meet and connect with 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.520 the Kirbys. We're all really similar in a lot of ways, 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:48.120 and a lot of those ways I used to really 0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:51.000 kind of fight and feel like I wasn't supposed to 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:53.199 be like that because my mom's not like that, Dad's 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:54.880 not like that, Justine's not like that. 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:00.480 Well, Stephen struggled in school. Justine excelled, attending a gifted 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.639 program and eventually becoming a teacher. Doing well in school 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.640 so you can go to college, so you can start 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.600 a career that becomes your life. Stephen tried to do 0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:12.920 those things because Justine and his mom had. He wanted 0:25:12.960 --> 0:25:15.960 to please them, be like them, but he always felt 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:19.560 like he was falling short with the Kirbys, Stephen saw 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.480 a different way to live than the one he'd grown 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:26.439 up with. Life was more improvisational. For instance, one night, 0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:28.919 when Stephen went out drinking with his sister Shannon and 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.879 her friends, they got too drunk to drive home and 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.240 ended up crashing at a friend's nearby hotel room. In 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.400 the middle of the night. Shannon got out of bed 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:39.760 and went out for a smoke, but she forgot to 0:25:39.800 --> 0:25:43.120 take along a room key, and she forgot to wear pants, 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:45.960 so she appeared at the front desk demanding to be 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:48.520 led into a room that she had no business being in, 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:53.080 all while not wearing pants. The whole gang was kicked out, 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:55.919 but it wasn't the end of the world. In fact, 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:59.600 Stephen thought it was pretty fun. His new family is 0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:02.080 warm and huggy. They say I love you a lot. 0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:05.280 When Stephen feared he might be intruding on Shannon's life 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.640 by texting too often, she told him, you will never 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:09.160 be a bother. 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:11.520 They really have changed me. And it's like I've told 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:16.359 the Kirby's, Do you guys help me make sense? The 0:26:16.400 --> 0:26:19.280 way I've lived this last year is the night and 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:21.000 day compared to what I have in the past as 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.280 far as just kind of there's really kind of going 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:26.960 for a lot of stuff and living for metaphorically for 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:29.000 the first time in my life. 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.000 Stephen says he's always wanted to travel, to just get 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.679 in a car and drive. He remembers countless conversations with 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:37.800 Justine where she'd encourage him to go. 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:39.960 We've talked about it over and over again. 0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:44.240 Yeah, I remember so vividly, like Stephen coming to my 0:26:44.320 --> 0:26:46.320 house and we're on the couch and he's just like, 0:26:46.600 --> 0:26:49.320 I have this urge, like I just want to go somewhere. 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:52.800 And I'm like, okay, so just do that. You know 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:55.479 what's stopping me? And he's like, well, what's mom going 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:58.439 to think? Or who's going to watch the dog or whatever. 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:01.080 I'm like, I'll watch the dog. Mom will be a fine, 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:03.760 you know, Like he and even in my mind I knew, 0:27:03.800 --> 0:27:05.320 like he's probably not going to go. 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.680 But about a month after Barry's death. In two months 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.080 after Brian's Stephen jumped in his car in Indianapolis and 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:17.480 just started heading west the Badlands Glacier National Park, Washington State, 0:27:18.000 --> 0:27:21.040 all the way to the Canadian border. On the road, 0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:23.840 he slept in a hammock bathed in the river, fried 0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:26.320 up spam and eggs at rest stops, and saw the 0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:28.320 Pacific Ocean for the very first time. 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:32.040 I had Barry and Brian looking over me, and honestly 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:34.640 all the time I really kind of felt felt their presence. 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.359 I just kind of drove, just said either felt right 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:40.159 or didn't feel right, and for Nettville right will then 0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:41.840 take a left turn instead of a right term. You know, 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:44.920 It's like in those moments, which I had so many 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.280 on that trip, It's like, what have I been doing 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:50.000 for the past thirty three years when I could have 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:50.640 been doing this? 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.280 You know, the Stephen that I am talking to today 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:59.560 is like the real Stephen that was always inside like 0:28:00.359 --> 0:28:03.320 wanting to get out, But like, hey guys, is this okay? 0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:03.520 No? 0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:09.280 Okay? So I like it's obvious to me that this 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:13.680 other side of the family is his has like completed 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:16.399 him in a way. 0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.840 So to Justine's question, it seems clear that she did 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:24.880 do the right thing. Stephen thinks back on that day, 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:27.399 Justine told him the truth, how she gave him the 0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:31.119 permission to react however he wanted, be it with sadness 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.800 or anger or even by joking around. It was all Okay, 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.320 Stephen could just be Stephen. 0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.320 And I've never felt like that's right until that moment. 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:43.840 It meant a lot. It made me feel if you 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:49.440 were really good and accepted. There's nobody, nobody else on 0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:53.160 this planet that I would have wanted to tell me 0:28:53.240 --> 0:28:59.880 the news than you. 0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:03.680 It was amazing to hear you say that you wouldn't 0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:07.520 have wanted it to be anyone other than me. It 0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:10.240 makes me feel really special. I'm really close to you, 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.040 and it makes me feel like it was right. 0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.720 The secret that had become a wall between Justine and 0:29:26.760 --> 0:29:30.880 Stephen was coming down. They didn't share the same father, 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:36.200 but they shared the same fact. Finally there was reality 0:29:37.760 --> 0:30:00.520 and it wasn't crushing either of them. 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:12.160 O cans ok, I canais be found. 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:24.040 I canlis be found. 0:30:30.080 --> 0:30:35.840 Now that the Fernditures rip turning to its good will home, 0:30:39.360 --> 0:30:44.480 now that the last month's rent is skating with the damage, 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:51.120 POS take this moment to dissolve, if we meant it. 0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:52.520 If we turn. 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:56.560 Remember felt around for five to. 0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:07.719 From things that leaves. This episode of Heavyweight was produced 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:11.760 by Senior producer Khalila Holt, along with Stevie Lane, Moheeny mcgauker, 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:15.440 and me Jonathan Goldstein Special thanks to Emily Condon, Jorge 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:19.680 just Alex Bloomberg, Sharon Mashihi, Connie Walker, and Jackie Cohen. 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.480 News footage courtesy of Gray Media Group, Incorporated and Wave 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.800 three News. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music 0:31:26.800 --> 0:31:29.960 by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, and Bobby Lord. The 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:32.400 song Stephen listens to in the episode is the Other 0:31:32.520 --> 0:31:36.120 Side of Mount heart Attack by Liars. Additional music credits 0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:39.760 can be found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:42.280 Our theme song is by the Weaker Thands courtesy of 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:46.320 Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight. We're always 0:31:46.320 --> 0:31:48.840 looking for stories, so send us an email at Heavyweight 0:31:48.880 --> 0:31:51.720 at gimletmedia dot com. We'll be off for the next 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.920 two weeks as we finish another two part episode, so 0:31:54.960 --> 0:32:02.680 we'll be back November eighteenth. 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:05.120 The bott