Episode 276

<v Speaker 1>Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
<v Speaker 1>not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
<v Speaker 2>Listen, I don't know what to do if I tell
<v Speaker 2>you this, Well, I don't want We got a friends.
<v Speaker 3>Hello and welcome. This is season eleven, episode two hundred
<v Speaker 3>and seventy six of Sword and Scale, the show that.
<v Speaker 4>Reveals that the worst monsters are real.
<v Speaker 3>You ever take a road trip for a couple of
<v Speaker 3>days or maybe even weeks?
<v Speaker 5>I have.
<v Speaker 3>Those days were fun. Gotta admit. Trading in the brand
<v Speaker 3>new sports car for an SUV so I could pack
<v Speaker 3>my dog Alie with all of my worldly possessions and
<v Speaker 3>head north from South Florida one of the best things
<v Speaker 3>I've ever done in my life, to be quite honest,
<v Speaker 3>one of the most rewarding, enjoyable times of my life.
<v Speaker 3>And things happen on trips like that. You run into delays,
<v Speaker 3>like aphic jams, detours, bad weather. I got stuck in
<v Speaker 3>a hurricane and had some shenanigans happen in a men's
<v Speaker 3>bathroom in northern Florida. And no, it's not what you're thinking.
<v Speaker 3>But the point is that all kinds of things happen
<v Speaker 3>sometimes you lose your wallet or your keys, or you
<v Speaker 3>lock yourself out of your car, and pretty soon the
<v Speaker 3>trip you're on isn't even close to the one you've
<v Speaker 3>imagined in your head in your cabeza. Sure, you've met
<v Speaker 3>some cool people and even eaten at the dingy diner
<v Speaker 3>at the corner of nowhere. Food was fucking great, But
<v Speaker 3>you missed out on a few really important things too,
<v Speaker 3>because life just threw a few curveballs your way. And
<v Speaker 3>everybody knows, everybody that's been on this earth for more
<v Speaker 3>than three seconds knows that shit happens, but it usually
<v Speaker 3>ends up okay in the end. Usually in a quaint
<v Speaker 3>South Carolinian town. In the early sixties, the love story
<v Speaker 3>of a married couple named Carol and Reggie unfolded like
<v Speaker 3>a fairy tale. Their tale began during high school when
<v Speaker 3>they were just fifteen and started dating the classmates. Soon
<v Speaker 3>became the ideal couple, inseparable and deeply in love. Nothing
<v Speaker 3>like that high school love. It's life or death for
<v Speaker 3>some Graduation in nineteen sixty two was supposed to mark
<v Speaker 3>the beginning of their married life, but Reggie's called to
<v Speaker 3>military service disrupted their plans. Somewhere In the midst of this,
<v Speaker 3>they took different roads and went their separate ways. Carol,
<v Speaker 3>resilient and determined, found security in a job in the
<v Speaker 3>nearby Air Force base and briefly explored another marriage before
<v Speaker 3>eventually marrying a man named Richard. Unfortunately, richard struggles with
<v Speaker 3>alcoholism cast a dark shadow over their relationship. A domineering
<v Speaker 3>and abusive figure, he harbored an intense desire to keep
<v Speaker 3>Carol within his grasp. Any hint of independence from her
<v Speaker 3>would trigger merciless beatings. Regrettably, their young daughter saw a
<v Speaker 3>lot of the explosive scenes her father's anger and chaos
<v Speaker 3>seemed to dominate their family home. Carol mustered every viber
<v Speaker 3>of strength she had and filed for divorce in nineteen
<v Speaker 3>eighty seven. The late nineties brought another cruel twist of
<v Speaker 3>Carol's life with a diagnosis of liver cancer. Her courageous
<v Speaker 3>battle left her a survivor, but one with a lifetime
<v Speaker 3>of daily medication and regular checkups what a consistent horror cancerous.
<v Speaker 3>To accommodate her medical needs, she took a job at
<v Speaker 3>a call center answering phones for the local cable company,
<v Speaker 3>where she could continue to work in a way that
<v Speaker 3>wasn't physically demanding. Reggie also had his share of life's challenges,
<v Speaker 3>including a marriage that eventually ended and a number of
<v Speaker 3>health problems of his own. Years passed for both Carol
<v Speaker 3>and Reggie until a fateful day in two thousand. Carol,
<v Speaker 3>working at the call center, received a call from a
<v Speaker 3>familiar voice. Her body trembled at the sound because it
<v Speaker 3>was Reggie. He had no idea he was speaking to Carol,
<v Speaker 3>but she recognized the voice belonging to the love of
<v Speaker 3>her life. This mere phone call triggered a reconnection with
<v Speaker 3>her high school sweetheart after thirty eight years of separation.
<v Speaker 3>Can you even imagine? Their reunion was sweet and profound,
<v Speaker 3>leading to daily meetings, moving in together within weeks, and
<v Speaker 3>exchanging vows in just a couple of months. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>it's not like they didn't have years to think about
<v Speaker 3>what they were missing. Rnda, Carol's daughter, vividly remembered her
<v Speaker 3>mother's happiness that day and how the couple's love story
<v Speaker 3>came back to life. Despite their challenging medical histories, they
<v Speaker 3>found solid in each other, creating a life filled with
<v Speaker 3>happiness and love and comfort. They settled into Reggie's home
<v Speaker 3>in Charleston, partly to be near an ill friend who
<v Speaker 3>also needed their help. Carol's daughter felt like she truly
<v Speaker 3>had a father and a loving family. Carol and Reggie's
<v Speaker 3>love story, marked by tragedy and triumph, continued as they
<v Speaker 3>took each day as it came, with gratitude for the
<v Speaker 3>love they had finally found in each other. This is
<v Speaker 3>Reggie's brother talking about both him and his sister in law, Carol.
<v Speaker 1>I would like to tell you about my brother and
<v Speaker 1>his wife, Carol. Reggie and Carol were the most innocent,
<v Speaker 1>kind hearted, and wonderful members of my family. They were
<v Speaker 1>good neighbors. They were kind, and they were trustworthy. Hell
<v Speaker 1>those that were in need and they had to give
<v Speaker 1>the hospitality, Reggie would give you the shirt office back
<v Speaker 1>if you knew you needed it. They were givers. They
<v Speaker 1>were contributors to society. We were raised in a large family.
<v Speaker 1>Reggie was a life of the family. He was a
<v Speaker 1>party of the family reunions. He was always funny, telling
<v Speaker 1>jokes and keeping people happy was his trademark. He would
<v Speaker 1>always insist on paying bills at a restaurant, and he
<v Speaker 1>had a habit of showing up at your door, unannounced
<v Speaker 1>with goodies and cheers. He was a wonderful brother. Reggie
<v Speaker 1>had a rough grown up in the house of eleven
<v Speaker 1>brothers and sisters. He was the seventh child of the
<v Speaker 1>Sumner family. He was the baby. Our father was killed
<v Speaker 1>in a motorcycle accidents when Reggie was just six weeks
<v Speaker 1>sold at thirty two. There was a little with seven children.
<v Speaker 1>She remarried and had four more children. Mister Clark, our stepdad,
<v Speaker 1>passed away in nineteen fifty three, and as the older
<v Speaker 1>and brothers and sisters were moving out, getting married or
<v Speaker 1>joining the military, Reggie stepped up to the plate and
<v Speaker 1>became the fatherlike figure and helped raise the younger siblings.
<v Speaker 1>He was such a good leader. He always sat a
<v Speaker 1>wonderful example for everyone. He was so loved by his siblings.
<v Speaker 1>Reggie was retired from sea such railroad and although he
<v Speaker 1>and Caow were in port health, they loved each other.
<v Speaker 1>They loved staying together.
<v Speaker 3>In love and relationships, many people, myself included, run through
<v Speaker 3>several partners trying to find the right one. It's not easy.
<v Speaker 3>I think that's pretty obvious. You make a lot of
<v Speaker 3>mistakes along the way. Often circumstances, timing, or personal growth
<v Speaker 3>lead people to just settle. Life has a habit of
<v Speaker 3>moving on and sometimes even getting in the way, so
<v Speaker 3>sometimes it's just easier to find comfort, stability, and companionship
<v Speaker 3>and marriages that didn't start up or end up like
<v Speaker 3>Reggie or Carol's. Unlike fairy tales, it's a rare couple
<v Speaker 3>who meet and marry in high school without divorcing just
<v Speaker 3>a few years later, But rare and extraordinary love stories
<v Speaker 3>like theirs do exist. I happen to know firsthand, and yes,
<v Speaker 3>I know how lucky I am. Two people who have
<v Speaker 3>been through it marriage and divorce and then rediscovered each
<v Speaker 3>other after decades. They become even more extraordinary when they
<v Speaker 3>stayed again until their golden years of retirement. Finally they
<v Speaker 3>get to spend quality time with their loved ones, free
<v Speaker 3>from all the immaturity and the bullshit that goes with
<v Speaker 3>any relationship. At any point, when you've worked on yourself
<v Speaker 3>through trial and error for decades and you finally meet
<v Speaker 3>someone else that has done the same thing, it's kind
<v Speaker 3>of magical. This is how Carol and Reggie felt about
<v Speaker 3>each other, like their love was the rarest in the world.
<v Speaker 3>And they were the luckiest people on earth.
<v Speaker 6>Reggie and Carroll dated in a high school, and many
<v Speaker 6>years later they connected and got married. They lived in Charleston,
<v Speaker 6>and by this time we lived in Jacksonville. Carol was
<v Speaker 6>easy going person and.
<v Speaker 7>A good cook.
<v Speaker 6>She kept Reggie well fed and enjoyed the good food
<v Speaker 6>and the good cook.
<v Speaker 1>She was.
<v Speaker 6>The first time I visited them when they lived in
<v Speaker 6>lands Since South Carolina. I spent a couple of nights
<v Speaker 6>with them on that trip there again, Reggie came the
<v Speaker 6>neighborhood big brother, dad and friend. Reggie and Carol were
<v Speaker 6>only married a few years.
<v Speaker 3>A few years with Reggie already seemed like a blissful
<v Speaker 3>lifetime compared to what Carol had to put up with
<v Speaker 3>in her longest second marriage to Richard. Being married to
<v Speaker 3>this tyrant made meeting Reggie all the sweeter. One afternoon
<v Speaker 3>back in the past, when Carol was at home with
<v Speaker 3>just her daughter Rohnda, Richard, who was now her ex,
<v Speaker 3>had decided to carry out a bit of a nefarious plan.
<v Speaker 3>You see, Richard was depressed and he didn't want to
<v Speaker 3>live anymore. So, you know, if he wasn't going to
<v Speaker 3>be on this earth anymore, then neither would his wife, Carol,
<v Speaker 3>So that afternoon, he entered the home, started an argument,
<v Speaker 3>and shot Carol multiple times in front of their ten
<v Speaker 3>year old daughter. Gunshots shattered the tranquility of their home
<v Speaker 3>and the vicinity. Neighbors knew something bad was happening, so
<v Speaker 3>they called police immediately. Emergency responders rushed Carol to the hospital,
<v Speaker 3>where her life hung in the balance. Miraculously, she emerged
<v Speaker 3>from this whole ordeal, but her right eye bore the
<v Speaker 3>scars of the tragic incident for the next year. Ten
<v Speaker 3>year old Ronda was compelled to act as her mother's nurse,
<v Speaker 3>pulling her back from the brink of death. After the
<v Speaker 3>trauma of her abusive marriage and nearly losing her life,
<v Speaker 3>Carol had strong doubts about getting involved with anyone ever again.
<v Speaker 3>That is until she reunited with Reggie, who brought a
<v Speaker 3>ray of light into her life. It was like finding
<v Speaker 3>a favorite blanket tucked away in the closet, one that
<v Speaker 3>you thought you had accidentally thrown away. They already knew
<v Speaker 3>and trusted each other. They already knew who they were,
<v Speaker 3>they had known for decades. Yet as the years unfolded,
<v Speaker 3>an unforeseen tragedy loomed. Little did they know that their
<v Speaker 3>love story would face yet another poignant chapter, a chapter
<v Speaker 3>that would include burying their love forever. In rural South Carolina.
<v Speaker 3>During the nineteen sixties, Carol and Reggie's teenage love was
<v Speaker 3>abruptly interrupted when Reggie answered the call of military service,
<v Speaker 3>leading them on separate paths. Carol faced some pretty tough years,
<v Speaker 3>previously living through an abusive marriage to Richard, who mercilessly
<v Speaker 3>shot her numerous times in front of their ten year
<v Speaker 3>old daughter before ending his own life. Such a horrible
<v Speaker 3>thing to experience. Such a selfish prick you have to
<v Speaker 3>be to do that to someone you claim to love.
<v Speaker 3>Carol's next challenge would be battling liver cancer in the
<v Speaker 3>late nineteen nineties. As life's winding path unfolded, Reggie two
<v Speaker 3>faced challenges, including the end of a marriage. Remarkably, fate
<v Speaker 3>intervened in two thousand, reuniting Carol and Reggie after thirty
<v Speaker 3>eight years. They picked up right where they left off
<v Speaker 3>and were the happiest they'd ever been, But fate was
<v Speaker 3>about to force the loving couple into a dark detour.
<v Speaker 3>The couple were now living in Jacksonville, Florida, where they
<v Speaker 3>relocated to be near some of Reggie's family, while Carol's
<v Speaker 3>daughter remained in South Carolina.
<v Speaker 8>Yes, I am in Charleston, South Carolina, and I need
<v Speaker 8>someone to go to my mother's home to CFC is
<v Speaker 8>alive issue there. I can't reach her. See have I
<v Speaker 8>He'll follow?
<v Speaker 9>Yeah.
<v Speaker 8>She get liver cancer and her husband is a severe
<v Speaker 8>diabetic two zero one five Reed Avenue. And the last
<v Speaker 8>time we saw it with her Tuesday morning.
<v Speaker 7>What's her name?
<v Speaker 8>Her name is Carol Sumner.
<v Speaker 9>You know why.
<v Speaker 8>I'm a female. Yes, And her husband is Reggie and
<v Speaker 8>he's dead. Written and so he walked into the door.
<v Speaker 3>Ronda had just embarked on a lengthy mission to locate
<v Speaker 3>her mom and stepdad, a long journey that was just beginning.
<v Speaker 9>And I like you.
<v Speaker 8>I've liked probably twelve messages today alone, and they are
<v Speaker 8>both the sort of part of hearing. So I need
<v Speaker 8>somebody to really really beat on the door. I just
<v Speaker 8>feel something's wrong.
<v Speaker 3>At that point, she was told she couldn't file a
<v Speaker 3>missing person's report over the phone, and that she would
<v Speaker 3>need to call the Jacksonville Police to make arrangements.
<v Speaker 8>May help you, Well, I need to file I seeing
<v Speaker 8>persons report and I'm out of the town. Can I
<v Speaker 8>do it over the phone? I'm sorry missing my mother
<v Speaker 8>and her husband.
<v Speaker 2>And while you said they're missing them, let's play on.
<v Speaker 8>Nobody has hurt or seen from seen him or heard
<v Speaker 8>from them since Friday. Uh huh. They are in very
<v Speaker 8>poor help. And Officer Nelson spent several hours last night
<v Speaker 8>over at their home and he said that it was
<v Speaker 8>just you know, it looks like they had they just
<v Speaker 8>up and left, but they left the dog there and
<v Speaker 8>the dog is inside and something something, something's wrong because
<v Speaker 8>they called me over a week and nobody. The last
<v Speaker 8>time they were seeing or heard from was Friday, and
<v Speaker 8>Officer Nelson told me I needed to file I'm missing
<v Speaker 8>person's report, but I'm in Charleston, South Carolina. Okay, is
<v Speaker 8>there anybody here's a finer reports for them here in Jacksonville. No,
<v Speaker 8>the family have a key to their residents. Yes I do,
<v Speaker 8>I mean here is Jacksonville. You know the door was unlocked.
<v Speaker 8>Officer Nelson was in there her house.
<v Speaker 9>The door was unlocked.
<v Speaker 8>He was inside their house. Yeah, okay, one was the
<v Speaker 8>report felt last night. I called Directonville Police Department in
<v Speaker 8>last night to have an officer go to the and
<v Speaker 8>why wasn't her report out last night?
<v Speaker 3>Exactly? That's what Rohnda wanted to know. Why wasn't a
<v Speaker 3>report filed? They were both disabled, hadn't responded to calls
<v Speaker 3>for days, and left the dog alone. Again, she was
<v Speaker 3>passed on to another dispatcher when she asked for Officer Nelson,
<v Speaker 3>the officer who actually entered the home and saw that
<v Speaker 3>her parents were gone.
<v Speaker 8>Hello mea yes, yes, this is miss for instance. Yes, okay,
<v Speaker 8>did you talk to the officer yesterday? Yes, m I
<v Speaker 8>talked to him numerous times last night. He was He
<v Speaker 8>went to the house and he said the door was
<v Speaker 8>unlocked and the dog was still insign He got a
<v Speaker 8>little dog and he said, there are several hours trying
<v Speaker 8>to He found her address book and he called the
<v Speaker 8>sister in law, but by bound if anybody has heard
<v Speaker 8>of someone, and the last time anybody has seen or
<v Speaker 8>her from them was Friday, and they are in very
<v Speaker 8>she's being treated for liver cancer and he's a diabetic.
<v Speaker 8>So he went into the house. He was Yes, he
<v Speaker 8>was in the house because I'm charge. He made a report,
<v Speaker 8>but I don't know if it's a mission personal report.
<v Speaker 9>Let me show you.
<v Speaker 8>He said he did not file on Miss Carson report.
<v Speaker 8>And that's what I'm calling to do. Now, Okay, and
<v Speaker 8>where are you ave? I'm in Charleston, South Carolina, trying
<v Speaker 8>to get down there.
<v Speaker 10>Are you driving?
<v Speaker 7>Now?
<v Speaker 8>What do you mean by trying?
<v Speaker 1>Now?
<v Speaker 8>I'm trying to make a racist to get there. I've
<v Speaker 8>got two small childress. I'm trying to make a racists
<v Speaker 8>to get down there. I said, I don't want to
<v Speaker 8>if I get in at midnight, I don't want to,
<v Speaker 8>you know, I'd like to set the filed as soon
<v Speaker 8>as possible. She's something's wrong.
<v Speaker 3>My god. Don't ever lose your disabled parents in another state.
<v Speaker 3>I guess.
<v Speaker 8>He also was able to retrieve the license tag number
<v Speaker 8>of their car, because their car was also missing. They
<v Speaker 8>have a South Carolina Drubbers bison and the South Carolina
<v Speaker 8>driver license tag if they just moved to Florida, And
<v Speaker 8>he was able to retrieve that information, and he told
<v Speaker 8>me I needed to report the car stolen.
<v Speaker 9>It's okay, I'm.
<v Speaker 10>Thinking, And they're not are they They're not on a hospice.
<v Speaker 11>Or anything like that.
<v Speaker 8>No, I talked every I talked probably nine hospitals in
<v Speaker 8>that area, and Andrea is it admitted or treated? And nobody,
<v Speaker 8>nobody had them in their in their system. Officer Nelson
<v Speaker 8>was able to retrieve information about if an ambulance had
<v Speaker 8>transported them, and that came up negative. Well, you know
<v Speaker 8>what I mean, the ambulance did not visit the house.
<v Speaker 9>Right there's the does.
<v Speaker 8>Not make a chance that they are just and my
<v Speaker 8>mother and I are very close. We talk every single day,
<v Speaker 8>every day, and I've not heard from her since Monday.
<v Speaker 8>I'm sorry, last Tuesday. Last Tuesday morning, after the fourth
<v Speaker 8>of July, he called me, and I've not talked to
<v Speaker 8>her since then. And I figured that maybe they were
<v Speaker 8>sleeping or something, and then I I'm on yesterday I
<v Speaker 8>called the police department to have an officer go over
<v Speaker 8>there to see, right, they were dead. I didn't know, right,
<v Speaker 8>but the house, the house was unlocked, the car was missing.
<v Speaker 8>And who said that the house right next door, either
<v Speaker 8>yesterday or the day before it had been burglarized. And
<v Speaker 8>with me being a state and half away, I'm very
<v Speaker 8>in there. So did you need contact with the neighbors?
<v Speaker 8>He said, he did, but I don't. The last time
<v Speaker 8>he said the neighbors saw a light on Friday. That's
<v Speaker 8>what I'm saying. The last time they were heard or
<v Speaker 8>seen was on Friday.
<v Speaker 3>Foul play was becoming obvious. You don't need a little
<v Speaker 3>badge for that. The neighbors just had their house broken into.
<v Speaker 3>Poor Ronda knew something was really wrong, but found herself
<v Speaker 3>answering twenty questions with each operator she reached, But the
<v Speaker 3>next question just seemed MM silly. She wanted to know
<v Speaker 3>if they had maybe just gotten in the car and
<v Speaker 3>gone on vacation.
<v Speaker 8>No, absolutely not, not without calling me. He's a diabetic,
<v Speaker 8>his health is extremely poorced and he's got a broken leg.
<v Speaker 8>She has an IVY suture to her arms for her
<v Speaker 8>seamilar therapy. I mean, it's not like I'm just they're
<v Speaker 8>not bedridden, but it's not like they can just get
<v Speaker 8>up and go. They're just there. She's got liver. Answer,
<v Speaker 8>they're extremely ill.
<v Speaker 9>What what's your last saying? Miss Branson?
<v Speaker 8>My life name is Branson?
<v Speaker 3>What's your last name? Miss Branson? Do that just a second?
<v Speaker 3>Did you get the joke yet? N Maybe you don't
<v Speaker 3>belong here?
<v Speaker 8>Then would I also file a missing the car missing
<v Speaker 8>with that part?
<v Speaker 12>With you?
<v Speaker 1>Well?
<v Speaker 9>If you have the you have a tag number and all.
<v Speaker 8>The officer Nelson retrieved it from South Carolina records or whatever.
<v Speaker 8>But I don't know it. I can win, they can
<v Speaker 8>be at it on later. But if somebody took them
<v Speaker 8>and they're you know, you've got them somewhere and they's
<v Speaker 8>got the car, I mean, we won't find the car
<v Speaker 8>before we find them. You can think, right, I see
<v Speaker 8>what you're saying, but I don't have any way to
<v Speaker 8>He didn't make a note in the record, and now
<v Speaker 8>I don't see it. Any idea when he'll we got
<v Speaker 8>on duty at seven o'clock tonight.
<v Speaker 3>We've all been there right stuck in a chat message
<v Speaker 3>loop or automated phone tree, or pushed through from one
<v Speaker 3>person to the next. You'all have comcast right, all for
<v Speaker 3>a simple question. But this was about her missing parents,
<v Speaker 3>not about her cable bill. Every passing second could be
<v Speaker 3>a crucial second. Ronda was desperately trying to make arrangements
<v Speaker 3>for her children so she could make the seven hour
<v Speaker 3>drive to Jacksonville, Florida. She asked for any officer to
<v Speaker 3>call her as soon as possible and what the address
<v Speaker 3>of the police department was, so she could go there herself,
<v Speaker 3>but then she was directed to go straight to the
<v Speaker 3>house of her parents. The next call you hear is
<v Speaker 3>the one Ronda made once she reached Jacksonville.
<v Speaker 10>Yes, I need to have an officer out so ease,
<v Speaker 10>I need to saw a missing Parkingsy Court.
<v Speaker 9>Let's the address man, twenty fifteen, three Avenue.
<v Speaker 10>Car Computers, Johns, my mother, her husband.
<v Speaker 9>What's your name, Fonda Franson? Did you already fall into report?
<v Speaker 1>You know?
<v Speaker 10>I haven't.
<v Speaker 9>I called into a report.
<v Speaker 10>And I live in Chelton, South Carolina, and I just
<v Speaker 10>came into town, and I was told you to call
<v Speaker 10>when I got here, And I'm here and a new
<v Speaker 10>officer here so I can call the report.
<v Speaker 3>Every time she spoke with a new nine to one
<v Speaker 3>one operator, she was asked the same repetitive questions, leaving
<v Speaker 3>her caught in a whirlwind of frustration when all she
<v Speaker 3>wanted to do was locate her parents as quickly as possible.
<v Speaker 9>What was time to do?
<v Speaker 10>Is we have your call in the system already. I
<v Speaker 10>seemed like somebody said, oh, had you set up have
<v Speaker 10>an officer to come talk to you with trying to
<v Speaker 10>figure out your parents?
<v Speaker 9>And you were appointing both of them missing? Your mother
<v Speaker 9>and her husband?
<v Speaker 13>Yeah?
<v Speaker 9>Okay? How long have they been missing? Since Friday'll find me?
<v Speaker 9>Wait in the car? Yeah, as far as I don't know.
<v Speaker 10>I live in Charlston, South Carolina, and I okay they
<v Speaker 10>all have any other relatives here?
<v Speaker 14>No?
<v Speaker 9>Okay?
<v Speaker 15>There?
<v Speaker 10>And you're in Jacksonville? Now on at their house? Oh,
<v Speaker 10>you're at the house and now yes, okay? What's your
<v Speaker 10>okay to call? What's your mother's name?
<v Speaker 9>Carol Thunder? Okay? How did she? She is sixty two?
<v Speaker 10>Sixty Q?
<v Speaker 9>Your wire? Black female? White?
<v Speaker 8>White female?
<v Speaker 9>What's the houseless lang? James Reginald Sumner?
<v Speaker 10>How the nine eighteen forty three is his birthday?
<v Speaker 9>What kind of call of the lasting driven?
<v Speaker 10>Uh?
<v Speaker 9>Blue? Town? Are Lincoln Town?
<v Speaker 8>Far blue?
<v Speaker 9>Lincoln Town?
<v Speaker 8>Car?
<v Speaker 9>You know the tag number on that? Yeah, ma'am? Is
<v Speaker 9>it also you're gonna come out? Yes, but you'll need
<v Speaker 9>to put this air for matonus. So we bowlow? Can
<v Speaker 9>we point listed is Branson? You may be upset, but
<v Speaker 9>we are doing.
<v Speaker 10>Our job and this is what we have to do
<v Speaker 10>because if they're missing, that loss and they're probably.
<v Speaker 9>Lost, so we could have put a bolo out and
<v Speaker 9>if anybody see them somewhere else in the city.
<v Speaker 10>They can notify the offer for this on the way.
<v Speaker 10>So that's why I'm getting this. I don't know the
<v Speaker 10>tag members. Think you don't know the tag member.
<v Speaker 8>Go ahead.
<v Speaker 10>Officer Nelson was able to retreat the tag member from
<v Speaker 10>South Carolina.
<v Speaker 9>I didn't get it from him.
<v Speaker 3>He is he got it interesting that one of the
<v Speaker 3>reasons her parents had been missing for so long was
<v Speaker 3>that no one in the system was communicating with each other.
<v Speaker 3>Every call she made to nine one one er the
<v Speaker 3>police was like starting all over again, entering a new
<v Speaker 3>ticket in your customer support system.
<v Speaker 9>Ah.
<v Speaker 3>The efficiency of government, and then this lady gets an
<v Speaker 3>attitude with her on top of everything. By this time,
<v Speaker 3>Rondo was exhausted, wouldn't you be.
<v Speaker 9>That's when I want sarapox. Yeah, I called one hour ago.
<v Speaker 9>A police officers. Just come out to the house.
<v Speaker 10>I can folly missing person three ft address twenty fifteen
<v Speaker 10>read avenue.
<v Speaker 9>Two zero one five read avenue. Yes, my mom, you
<v Speaker 9>know what's going on?
<v Speaker 16>Now?
<v Speaker 9>Well this folks, come out. There's you what is fo
<v Speaker 9>call you?
<v Speaker 5>That what the phone?
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, there's just a zero one five yes.
<v Speaker 10>Two zero five zero Now twenty fifteen two zero one five.
<v Speaker 8>I came in and I can't.
<v Speaker 9>I called from the driveway the second I drove in
<v Speaker 9>from a just second. Let me do this group of
<v Speaker 9>five book okay.
<v Speaker 10>Okay, thank you, yes, hello, yes, yes, I'm waiting on
<v Speaker 10>an officer and meet me at my mother's house.
<v Speaker 9>I can follow missing person three four, I call it
<v Speaker 9>three forty okay, what's your address? Twenty fifteen Avenue? Okay.
<v Speaker 3>What Ronda didn't know was that her parents' kindness and
<v Speaker 3>generosity had backfired on them, as happens to good people
<v Speaker 3>from time to time, especially in the world we live
<v Speaker 3>in today. It's always someone trying to take advantage of
<v Speaker 3>you in one way or another. Just look around. Just
<v Speaker 3>look at those plus prices. Am I right? Remember that
<v Speaker 3>the neighbor's home had just been robbed. That was now
<v Speaker 3>becoming the assumption with Carol and Reggie. Their disappearance was
<v Speaker 3>in fact tied to a burglary, but not by the
<v Speaker 3>same burglars who entered the neighbor's home.
<v Speaker 5>Weird.
<v Speaker 3>The couple had very recently moved to Jacksonville, Florida, to
<v Speaker 3>be near relatives and also one of Reggie's closest friends
<v Speaker 3>who was dying of cancer. This man was divorced because
<v Speaker 3>he'd been in prison. His daughter, Tiffany was living with
<v Speaker 3>her mom at the time. Tiffany was a good student,
<v Speaker 3>a cheerleader, and a band member, but she also had
<v Speaker 3>a lot of demands at home, like basically raising her
<v Speaker 3>younger brother. By the tenth grade, she had tired of
<v Speaker 3>all of this and was starting to hang with the
<v Speaker 3>wrong drug using crowd. When she discovered that her dad
<v Speaker 3>was ill and no one was around to help him,
<v Speaker 3>it was a win win situation. She would go stay
<v Speaker 3>with him and she would escape her demanding life. Within
<v Speaker 3>that time, she met the Sumners, Carol and Reggie. They
<v Speaker 3>could see that she had a kind heart and a
<v Speaker 3>helpful mindset. After all, she was supporting her dad in
<v Speaker 3>this time of need, despite having serious health conditions of
<v Speaker 3>their own. They had also been helping out their friend
<v Speaker 3>Tiffany's dad in his struggles. The Sumners, in their extreme generosity,
<v Speaker 3>knew that Tiffany needed a car, so they sold her
<v Speaker 3>their extra vehicle. Not only did they give her a
<v Speaker 3>sweet deal, but they also let her make payments on
<v Speaker 3>the car with no interest. During their conversations, the Sumners
<v Speaker 3>made the ultimate mistake of discussing their finances with the
<v Speaker 3>girl they thought they could trust, the one that was
<v Speaker 3>doing drugs. Tiffany returned to her South Carolina home after
<v Speaker 3>her father died months later, but she remembered that the
<v Speaker 3>Sumners extended an open invitation to their home anytime she'd
<v Speaker 3>liked to come and stay. She took them up on
<v Speaker 3>this directly after making the wrongest of wrong turns in
<v Speaker 3>her entire life hooking up with Michael Jackson at Myrtle Beach.
<v Speaker 3>And while hooking up with Michael Jackson was always a
<v Speaker 3>bad idea, this is not the same Michael Jackson you're
<v Speaker 3>thinking of. Apparently it's a pretty common name. This one
<v Speaker 3>didn't have a glittery glove and a couple of weird
<v Speaker 3>dance moves, and also an affinity for children. This one
<v Speaker 3>was a little different, starting with the fact that he
<v Speaker 3>was white, and this particular Michael Jackson was even shadier
<v Speaker 3>than the one you already know in love because when
<v Speaker 3>he robbed her, he stole her heart.
<v Speaker 15>The girl was feeling me, but I wasn't feeling her.
<v Speaker 17>It wasn't like that.
<v Speaker 15>I don't want to I don't want to be in
<v Speaker 15>the same room.
<v Speaker 17>How long you've been hanging out with her?
<v Speaker 15>Man? I met Deggar, I met this girl man South Carolina.
<v Speaker 15>I met this girl. Man.
<v Speaker 17>I robbed the girl.
<v Speaker 9>Man.
<v Speaker 15>That's how I met him.
<v Speaker 11>Man.
<v Speaker 15>I didn't even rob her.
<v Speaker 17>Man, it was just like, yeah, rob but he wasn't
<v Speaker 17>like robbing.
<v Speaker 15>And you know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 16>She had a little black box, had cogaon and weed
<v Speaker 16>and it and a munch of money in it, you know.
<v Speaker 15>What I'm saying that.
<v Speaker 17>But I was into the room.
<v Speaker 16>She didn't, you know, let me in the rooms, and
<v Speaker 16>technically I stole it, but I mean, you know, whatever
<v Speaker 16>is whatever, and I mean, you're not gonna call it
<v Speaker 16>this minute. Stole my dope, you know what I'm saying,
<v Speaker 16>You ain't gonna call and saying ship like that.
<v Speaker 15>I gave it, Coche gave it weight kept it was
<v Speaker 15>like eight hundred and I kept eight honey.
<v Speaker 16>But I messed up because she had my cell phone
<v Speaker 16>him because me and her chill earlier that day.
<v Speaker 15>And then she called me like that, like bringing my
<v Speaker 15>box back, and I'm just cligged.
<v Speaker 16>I ain't talking to that girl even answering the phone,
<v Speaker 16>texting me, I'm gonna do this.
<v Speaker 15>I'm gonna do this. I'm just you don't even know me.
<v Speaker 15>You know. When was that though?
<v Speaker 17>I mean, how long have you known Tiffany since? Man,
<v Speaker 17>since May?
<v Speaker 16>And that, like I said, that ship started in a weed.
<v Speaker 16>Later she calls me, a, I just want to talk
<v Speaker 16>to you.
<v Speaker 15>I talked to her, and then Tiffany's wself. It was, yeah,
<v Speaker 15>I had coging it. She she thought she was a
<v Speaker 15>little drug dealer.
<v Speaker 14>Man.
<v Speaker 17>She had a little bit of tiff Yeah.
<v Speaker 16>It was like half hours of cold, some hydro weed
<v Speaker 16>and the cash I gave.
<v Speaker 15>Like I said, you can check my record. I got
<v Speaker 15>no drug problem, drug regular n I was never in
<v Speaker 15>the drug. Everybody keep asking me May how much I
<v Speaker 15>don't crack or something.
<v Speaker 16>Man, I ain't never been in the drug man. But nah,
<v Speaker 16>I gave it due and kept the money and that
<v Speaker 16>was it. And then, like I said, a week later.
<v Speaker 15>Man, she I know that's just crazy. It's just I mean,
<v Speaker 15>it's ironic.
<v Speaker 16>It's help with And then, like I said, man, when
<v Speaker 16>the whole thing started this man, Like I said, Man,
<v Speaker 16>Tiffany knew these people, man, she knew they had money.
<v Speaker 3>True, Tiffany was making poor choices even before Michael Jackson
<v Speaker 3>came along, but her infatuation with this stereotypical bad boy
<v Speaker 3>intensified matters. Things escalated fast. Whether she really wanted to
<v Speaker 3>take the money or was just trying to impress Michael,
<v Speaker 3>the result was the same.
<v Speaker 18>How do you get from that to let's go get
<v Speaker 18>the money?
<v Speaker 16>Because when somebody comes up to me and says, look,
<v Speaker 16>there's a one hundred thousand dollars at stake, you know
<v Speaker 16>what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 15>It's a one hundred thousand dollars supposedly sold.
<v Speaker 16>The townhouse for like ninety some thousand, and you know this,
<v Speaker 16>this and this, and I'm just sitting there listening to
<v Speaker 16>this shit, and it's first in my mind it's like, yeah, whatever.
<v Speaker 16>But then again, at the same time, you ain't just
<v Speaker 16>gonna steal somebody credit card and jack no ninety thousand dollars, you.
<v Speaker 15>Know what I'm saying. But I motherfucker picking up a
<v Speaker 15>phone and say, hey, uh are you are you mean?
<v Speaker 15>Credit card company gonna call and say are you meaning
<v Speaker 15>to take this money off?
<v Speaker 11>You know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 17>That's common sense.
<v Speaker 16>So it's like, no, no, no, no, I can I
<v Speaker 16>can do this perfect? You know what I'm saying, they
<v Speaker 16>know me, they trust me, this, this and this.
<v Speaker 17>Hey, look, I'll do the credit card.
<v Speaker 15>Y'all get the card. I'm down whatever.
<v Speaker 16>You know what I'm saying. I'll do the rest. I
<v Speaker 16>got my computer. I'll do the rest. Y'all get the card,
<v Speaker 16>don't matter.
<v Speaker 17>I'll go to the ATM. I'll show my face.
<v Speaker 15>I mean, come on, that's bold. You know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 15>That's fucking bold.
<v Speaker 17>I'm you know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 15>So it's like, y'all do whatever. I'll do the rest.
<v Speaker 15>I mean, man, that's another thing. I'm murdered.
<v Speaker 12>I'm not gonna show my face at something different.
<v Speaker 17>Don't you already know they're dead?
<v Speaker 15>Yes?
<v Speaker 18>Okay, but feeling hear to the ATM, Yes, okay, you
<v Speaker 18>already know they're dead ATM with them alive.
<v Speaker 3>By the time Michael and Tiffany put the Sumner's money
<v Speaker 3>into their own hands, the couple was indeed dead, but
<v Speaker 3>Michael and Tiffany weren't the only ones who benefited. Two
<v Speaker 3>other players were in the mix, Bruce Nixon and Alan Wade.
<v Speaker 3>Alan Wade was eighteen years old and living with his mom,
<v Speaker 3>who was doing the best she could to keep him
<v Speaker 3>out of trouble. Here, she talks about a call she
<v Speaker 3>received from middle school when he was just a pre teen.
<v Speaker 7>He never got over me leaving his dad. He never
<v Speaker 7>got over his dad leaving him.
<v Speaker 13>He had missed so much school, even though I was
<v Speaker 13>dropping him off in the morning, that I either had
<v Speaker 13>to withdraw him from school or I was going to
<v Speaker 13>end up in jail.
<v Speaker 7>That's what they told me, so I withdrew him from school.
<v Speaker 5>In the eighth grade.
<v Speaker 3>A separate phone call resulted in even more dire consequences.
<v Speaker 13>They said he had said he was going to commit suicide.
<v Speaker 13>I drove out there immediately, and I talked to one
<v Speaker 13>of the councilors, a teacher or somebody, and the police
<v Speaker 13>were there. They were chasing him through the neighborhood because
<v Speaker 13>he had left the school grounds, and when they finally
<v Speaker 13>found him, the Baker Acted him.
<v Speaker 3>The Baker Act is a law that allows parents or
<v Speaker 3>authorities to place children in psychiatric facilities if they present
<v Speaker 3>harm to themselves or others. Coming from South Florida, I
<v Speaker 3>know all about the Baker Act.
<v Speaker 14>I know he.
<v Speaker 7>Thinks I didn't love him. I tried.
<v Speaker 14>I mean, I love him. He doesn't understand that I
<v Speaker 14>depended on him to be the strong and that was
<v Speaker 14>wrong of me. I threatened to kick him out, never
<v Speaker 14>dreaming that he would go.
<v Speaker 13>I was thinking, Okay, I threatened to kick him out,
<v Speaker 13>He's gonna say, I'm sorry, Mommy, I'm sorry. I'll behave,
<v Speaker 13>I'll behave. I did not want him to leave, but
<v Speaker 13>he did.
<v Speaker 3>Alan's dad wasn't in the picture. And now his mom
<v Speaker 3>had cancer because she had to have chemotherapy and radiation.
<v Speaker 3>And my heart goes out to all of you who
<v Speaker 3>are listening right now and have cancer. Some of you
<v Speaker 3>are in the audience right now listening to this. Carol,
<v Speaker 3>I'm thinking about you. The other Carol shout out, stay
<v Speaker 3>healthy anyway. Yeah, cancer is a bitch. But because she
<v Speaker 3>had to go through all this shit, the chemo therapy,
<v Speaker 3>the radiation, the just endless hospital visits, Alan left and
<v Speaker 3>was taken in by a friend of his mother until
<v Speaker 3>she was able to be stronger and take care of him.
<v Speaker 3>He was only fifteen at the time. Unfortunately, this woman
<v Speaker 3>who took care of Allan when he was fifteen, she
<v Speaker 3>wasn't financially capable of taking care of him, so she
<v Speaker 3>asked for compensation embarrassed. Alan's mom didn't want to pay
<v Speaker 3>for someone to take care of her son. According to her,
<v Speaker 3>she took him back because she didn't know what else
<v Speaker 3>to do. He was her baby. A year later, he
<v Speaker 3>met twenty three year old jobless Michael Jackson and started
<v Speaker 3>constantly hanging out with him, eventually moving into an apartment
<v Speaker 3>with Michael.
<v Speaker 13>Michael seemed to be an intelligent kind of guy. Friendly
<v Speaker 13>when I first met him, just talkative and just kind
<v Speaker 13>of on the showy side, you know, like he had
<v Speaker 13>a big personality.
<v Speaker 7>He was very.
<v Speaker 13>Confident, and I thought, well, you know, he's a little cocky,
<v Speaker 13>but you know, he's a boy. It was in the
<v Speaker 13>parking lot. This is after I had learned about Michael's
<v Speaker 13>real personality. I was driving through the parking lot coming
<v Speaker 13>home and I saw him sitting there on the back
<v Speaker 13>of a car, and I said, Michael, do you know
<v Speaker 13>where Alan's at? And he proceeded to tell me that
<v Speaker 13>that was none of my business. He was taking care
<v Speaker 13>of Allan and I just leave Alan alone. He's my
<v Speaker 13>concern now. And I said, is that a stolen car
<v Speaker 13>you're sitting on? And he got right up in my
<v Speaker 13>face in the window and threatened me that you just
<v Speaker 13>stay out of my business and just go on if
<v Speaker 13>you don't want anything.
<v Speaker 7>To happen to Alan.
<v Speaker 3>Alan's mom knew immediately that Michael was bad news. Moms
<v Speaker 3>know these sort of things instinctually, so she started apartment
<v Speaker 3>hunting for her and Alan and managed to find a
<v Speaker 3>two bedroom places that she could barely afford. When they
<v Speaker 3>moved in, she begged Allan not to tell Michael where
<v Speaker 3>they were living.
<v Speaker 7>And I had told him. I said, I don't want
<v Speaker 7>Michael to know where I'm at because I.
<v Speaker 13>Was afraid of Michael because of he threatened me, and
<v Speaker 13>I was afraid if I got in the middle of
<v Speaker 13>something he would harm Alan. And Michael came to my
<v Speaker 13>apartment and I just exploded on him. I just went
<v Speaker 13>off on this boy. And he sat there and looked
<v Speaker 13>me stone faced in the eye the whole time I
<v Speaker 13>was yelling at him.
<v Speaker 7>With a stupid smirk on his face. He had no
<v Speaker 7>regard for my feelings, for Alan's feelings, for anybody. And
<v Speaker 7>he finally, just when I finally stopped, he got up
<v Speaker 7>and just sid care what you think, and he walked away.
<v Speaker 3>There was one more character in this gang of robbers,
<v Speaker 3>it was eighteen year old Bruce Dixon. Bruce was a
<v Speaker 3>follower an NPC if you will, someone with his own
<v Speaker 3>set of troubles and empty family life. Bruce and Alan
<v Speaker 3>were longtime friends, and in fact, he would later state
<v Speaker 3>that he viewed Alan's mom as his own. But Bruce
<v Speaker 3>was about to be a young dad and was stressed
<v Speaker 3>over not being able to provide a life for his
<v Speaker 3>child until he was introduced to Michael Jackson and Tiffany.
<v Speaker 3>Michael and Tiffany were in Jacksonville partying together when the
<v Speaker 3>group met each other. Tiffany would be heading back to
<v Speaker 3>South Carolina, but the couple wanted one more night in Florida.
<v Speaker 3>The four came up with a plan to rob the Sumners,
<v Speaker 3>and it would start with Tiffany and my Michaels spending
<v Speaker 3>a night or two with them. She still needed to
<v Speaker 3>sign papers for the car title and this would be
<v Speaker 3>a way to introduce them to her boyfriend and of course,
<v Speaker 3>get a first hand view of the home the one
<v Speaker 3>they intended to rob. On the evening of July eighth,
<v Speaker 3>Michael Jackson convinced Bruce, who just turned eighteen, to canvass
<v Speaker 3>the Sumner neighborhood for four shovels, one for each of
<v Speaker 3>the robbers. They all took part in digging a four
<v Speaker 3>by six foot hole in the woods nearby, and then
<v Speaker 3>returned to the Sumner home to collect Their accounts differed
<v Speaker 3>from one another in an effort to save their own lives,
<v Speaker 3>but the bare truth was that the Sumners were thrown
<v Speaker 3>into that hole one by one. The teens and young
<v Speaker 3>adults were interviewed, but not one confessed.
<v Speaker 15>I'm going off with what I was went good that
<v Speaker 15>you didn't have anything to do with the.
<v Speaker 17>With anybody getting hold Is that right?
<v Speaker 7>I wanted to wait through everything that was going on.
<v Speaker 15>Don't know what happened?
<v Speaker 10>What do you let at the house?
<v Speaker 17>I know you're at the house.
<v Speaker 12>What happened when you left the house?
<v Speaker 17>Well let the house?
<v Speaker 9>Yeah?
<v Speaker 4>You said you were in the car waiting and they
<v Speaker 4>called you to come around.
<v Speaker 8>That's when I followed them out to the spot where
<v Speaker 8>and wanted out the woods and.
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to Bruce and Mike or or why you're
<v Speaker 5>in a car. You were driving and you can pass
<v Speaker 5>your teeth.
<v Speaker 8>So where's the where's the.
<v Speaker 15>Where's ready and kill?
<v Speaker 8>At that point, both of.
<v Speaker 17>Them in the trunk, you know, if they were alive
<v Speaker 17>at that time, and it said when.
<v Speaker 19>No one else I thought, I bet the hose.
<v Speaker 5>How did Ready and Carol'll get in the car?
<v Speaker 7>In the car pick?
<v Speaker 3>Let's be very clear here, Carol and Reggie were alive
<v Speaker 3>in the trunk of that car. Their mouths were duct taped,
<v Speaker 3>and they were embracing each other, crying, wondering how a
<v Speaker 3>girl they treated like their own daughter could have done
<v Speaker 3>this to them. I want you to close your eyes
<v Speaker 3>and picture yourself in that situation.
<v Speaker 18>What about when we let when he let the how
<v Speaker 18>can we got Ellen and both of what part.
<v Speaker 17>Of the car.
<v Speaker 15>At any time?
<v Speaker 12>Were you in that car in the Lincoln?
<v Speaker 20>But Mike was in the cart, not a Lincoln, not
<v Speaker 20>in a Lincoln.
<v Speaker 5>When they got rid of the botom, they ordered to
<v Speaker 5>drop back out, but Mike would have been in the link.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was down one be now you might get
<v Speaker 3>back from where they were.
<v Speaker 17>They drove back out then the right, but did dry
<v Speaker 17>might not.
<v Speaker 9>Walking out earth?
<v Speaker 7>And then they come out with the car You might
<v Speaker 7>I guess kind of lead they would.
<v Speaker 15>Get a woods or whatever.
<v Speaker 7>I don't I don't exactly know how the.
<v Speaker 17>Act of the Mike came walking out, and then they came.
<v Speaker 12>Out with the car.
<v Speaker 11>At any point did they talk about hunting Reggie or
<v Speaker 11>Carol and fronting.
<v Speaker 17>They didn't say nothing like that.
<v Speaker 11>And gonn mean when did you first hear them talk
<v Speaker 11>about duc pay?
<v Speaker 5>Nothing. They were in the out talking about what they
<v Speaker 5>were getting out the fund. Nobody.
<v Speaker 17>I went out when I heard over the radio today
<v Speaker 17>they hit the button.
<v Speaker 7>And they were saying coming like where did the duct
<v Speaker 7>paper or something like.
<v Speaker 5>That, you know thing that I guess them keep them
<v Speaker 5>together or whatever. When you left.
<v Speaker 17>That's how And Mike was with you, and.
<v Speaker 3>They alan Scott Bruce baster seat and there a new Lincoln.
<v Speaker 1>You fall on them.
<v Speaker 2>M okay, you got talking on the front and back
<v Speaker 2>and forth at that point, well, Michael.
<v Speaker 8>One, Mike was talking down.
<v Speaker 17>I mean I would be done, you know, things building
<v Speaker 17>just kind of like.
<v Speaker 8>You in my old little world behind them, you know anything,
<v Speaker 8>what are.
<v Speaker 17>You thinking at this point?
<v Speaker 11>Well then you get all this stuff and you got
<v Speaker 11>thunders in the trunk of the car in front of you.
<v Speaker 3>I thought, I mean, I don't even never not breaking out,
<v Speaker 3>and I was kind of freaking out, and you.
<v Speaker 10>Know, and not trying to be.
<v Speaker 5>Totally obvious about it, you know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 17>But at the same time, one, you know.
<v Speaker 9>This was not not kept an idea.
<v Speaker 5>You know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 9>This is nony.
<v Speaker 4>You got talked about robbery though, I mean, you're.
<v Speaker 10>Gonna go get the stuff, but you didn't and you
<v Speaker 10>count on the the end result there is that pretty.
<v Speaker 15>Much I'm not I don't want word your mouth, opay,
<v Speaker 15>and I mean pretty much you were going to go
<v Speaker 15>get your job. That one did.
<v Speaker 5>We're supposed to end.
<v Speaker 13>That was.
<v Speaker 3>But then Tiffany was a liar and she knew exactly
<v Speaker 3>how to manipulate others. The scheme began with the exploitation
<v Speaker 3>of two elderly souls kind friends who had stood by
<v Speaker 3>her father's side during his darkest hours. Despite dealing with
<v Speaker 3>their own serious problems. They were happy to give a
<v Speaker 3>helping hand simply because they were happy and wanted to
<v Speaker 3>give back. Their altruism reached beyond their own relatives, extending
<v Speaker 3>directly to Tiffany's father and Tiffany herself. Yet beneath the
<v Speaker 3>pretense of Tiffany's gratitude lurked a treacherous plot that she
<v Speaker 3>had masterfully orchestrated. She understood the horrible beginning and the
<v Speaker 3>inevitable conclusion. Next, Michael was brought to the station after
<v Speaker 3>waiting his turn in jail. Michael, the oldest may or,
<v Speaker 3>may not have been the sharpest of the four, but
<v Speaker 3>he sure thought he was. He thought he was so smart,
<v Speaker 3>in fact, that he believed he'd be able to wiggle
<v Speaker 3>out of previous incriminating statements and somehow bargain himself out
<v Speaker 3>of life in prison.
<v Speaker 16>Played a simple bloode according, what do I gotta do?
<v Speaker 16>What do I gotta say? I don't care what I
<v Speaker 16>gotta write, say do point.
<v Speaker 15>This, this and this.
<v Speaker 16>My biggest thing, man is I'm trying to push this
<v Speaker 16>thing a little bit faster. If I got to do this,
<v Speaker 16>this and this, and I'm trying to go home, probably.
<v Speaker 5>Just start by telling the truth some sort of worse
<v Speaker 5>about what happened in so.
<v Speaker 16>They ain't no way to like get lesser charged, you
<v Speaker 16>know what I'm saying, Like because.
<v Speaker 5>I already know like Petty's after something.
<v Speaker 16>No, no, no, because I already knew y'all got all of
<v Speaker 16>us on the same indictment that right there is pushing
<v Speaker 16>for conspiracy.
<v Speaker 5>Saying tell me tell me something about Alan Bridge or
<v Speaker 5>Timpany that you think we don't know, said, I don't know.
<v Speaker 17>What's I don't know?
<v Speaker 5>Started the beginning there, murder.
<v Speaker 17>Old on, robery, kidnapping.
<v Speaker 5>My biggest thing.
<v Speaker 15>How do y'all charge meat?
<v Speaker 18>The sounds really good and all, except for I think
<v Speaker 18>you told us something about uh, you tell something about
<v Speaker 18>the graves, graves or the whole?
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, you no problem with that?
<v Speaker 15>Well, what about the whole?
<v Speaker 18>He told us they were pre dug. You told us
<v Speaker 18>that where they put the whole was pre dug. You
<v Speaker 18>told us it was to scare them. And then you
<v Speaker 18>told us she held the flashlight while they shot a
<v Speaker 18>nerd onto. Oh, I don't even want of that night
<v Speaker 18>that night. You hope you hope that would be enough
<v Speaker 18>to get you out of there that night because you
<v Speaker 18>didn't have involvement in your mind and dealing with that
<v Speaker 18>any of those okay, but they ain't know damn White.
<v Speaker 18>You got dropped off somewhere else and you were you
<v Speaker 18>were not even there. You were smoking with somebody else
<v Speaker 18>while everybody else just disappeared, took care of all this
<v Speaker 18>stuff that you had no idea.
<v Speaker 17>Everybody disappeared.
<v Speaker 15>Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.
<v Speaker 5>It was physically impossible. He always that hole. For two
<v Speaker 5>people to dig that hole in that amount of time spanding,
<v Speaker 5>it's nothing happened. Can you kind of had a back yeah,
<v Speaker 5>because we had to have a back home to get
<v Speaker 5>him out.
<v Speaker 16>You can't even say that because, I mean, I don't
<v Speaker 16>know what the whole looked like. I didn't seen marines
<v Speaker 16>man digging six by six man in twenty minutes.
<v Speaker 15>I mean just because mentally, you know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 18>Are you Tiffany Alan or Bruce Greens?
<v Speaker 15>Oh?
<v Speaker 18>Okay, yeah, probably no, probably digging in a little six
<v Speaker 18>my six.
<v Speaker 16>You just killed two people in your't mind you digging
<v Speaker 16>a whole ship man? You're gonna be like like if
<v Speaker 16>people feel like he just did als of cole shit,
<v Speaker 16>why would there before shovels?
<v Speaker 15>Like I said, run prince Man, run forensics, run everything. Man,
<v Speaker 15>damn that.
<v Speaker 17>I ain't ary no people. I ain't touch no people.
<v Speaker 3>Michael was shameless, trying every angle he could think of
<v Speaker 3>to escape or minimize charges. Next, he attempted the old
<v Speaker 3>quid pro co. Remember that quid pro qo. We all
<v Speaker 3>learned what that meant at the same time, I think
<v Speaker 3>I give you something, you give me something back, you know. Politics.
<v Speaker 3>He began telling the detectives that he knew the whereabouts
<v Speaker 3>of another criminal they were after, and he would tell
<v Speaker 3>them his secret. Oh I know where to do that.
<v Speaker 15>Right now.
<v Speaker 17>I don't know anything about the you know.
<v Speaker 16>I mean, if y'all can look it up, I mean,
<v Speaker 16>it'll it'll come back accurate.
<v Speaker 15>He's been in the most wonderful a minute now.
<v Speaker 5>I mean I don't that.
<v Speaker 15>It's just I'm trying to figure out.
<v Speaker 16>Something anyway I get a bond, so okay, I can
<v Speaker 16>tell you right now.
<v Speaker 15>I ain't trying to go no way.
<v Speaker 18>I mean, I'm won't be straight up with you, okay,
<v Speaker 18>because we haven't. We've been pretty much straight up from
<v Speaker 18>the good capt You ain't getting the bond, okay.
<v Speaker 17>It ain't gonna happen. Get a bond okay because this
<v Speaker 17>is a capital murder okay.
<v Speaker 18>Uh and the capital murder offense has a no bond
<v Speaker 18>in the state of Florida. You're not getting out, okay.
<v Speaker 18>There's no opportunity whatsoever. I mean, you can tell me
<v Speaker 18>right now where Haffa's buried. Who helps you know? Whoever,
<v Speaker 18>shoot Kennedy. It's not gonna matter if you're not gonna
<v Speaker 18>get out.
<v Speaker 17>Okay.
<v Speaker 3>Finally, after hours of arguing his case, Michael gave the
<v Speaker 3>detectives some linear information, but he still blamed everyone but himself.
<v Speaker 15>So anyway, it's already been laid out.
<v Speaker 17>Tony gonna go in the house.
<v Speaker 15>She's gonna be like, look, I'm gonna go in there.
<v Speaker 16>I'm gonna get them all comfortable, relaxed. They're gonna, you know,
<v Speaker 16>feel normal.
<v Speaker 15>I'm in here. It ain't gonna it ain't gonna be
<v Speaker 15>no worries.
<v Speaker 16>They saying, you know, y'all gonna come up, Ben, Ben,
<v Speaker 16>can I use a telephone call?
<v Speaker 15>To use the telephone and then let me get that?
<v Speaker 15>You know what I'm saying next saying, I know, I'm
<v Speaker 15>just you know what I'm saying in the house.
<v Speaker 17>What No, this was the plan.
<v Speaker 15>Now, this ain't what happened. This is the plan. Okay.
<v Speaker 15>I'm just sitting there like, damn, that's that's so. You
<v Speaker 15>know that sounds like the word.
<v Speaker 16>You know what I'm saying, And you're right, then my mind,
<v Speaker 16>I'm sitting there thinking, nobody get paid off of this ship.
<v Speaker 16>You know what I'm saying, these foods are gonna be
<v Speaker 16>dumb asses, and I'm gonna get some money out of there.
<v Speaker 16>You know what I'm saying, It might as well go
<v Speaker 16>for it, you know, be a fool, not too I mean,
<v Speaker 16>I'm damn it clean. I put my hands on nothing.
<v Speaker 16>But then again, I'm sitting there thinking.
<v Speaker 15>I still don't know why I just walk up to
<v Speaker 15>the ATM shefit. Oh yeah, I know you. Actually, I
<v Speaker 15>don't get it for the money.
<v Speaker 16>Nah, but it's still at the same time, am I
<v Speaker 16>gonna walk up face showing him? You know what I'm
<v Speaker 16>saying that, I still run that in my head. That's
<v Speaker 16>why I said, Man, it was like some of this
<v Speaker 16>ship was retarded.
<v Speaker 5>Man, So you don't got a plan?
<v Speaker 15>So okay, yeah, okay, act on the plane.
<v Speaker 16>I'm gonna say that the night of the plant is
<v Speaker 16>supposed to unfold. We go all the way to these
<v Speaker 16>people's house.
<v Speaker 5>You know what I'm saying.
<v Speaker 17>We go to the house, all four of y'all in
<v Speaker 17>the master.
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, all four of us in the Masna, drop me
<v Speaker 16>off in the park. I don't want to be now
<v Speaker 16>where near his house. I don't want to see shit.
<v Speaker 3>You just heard him say that the other three in
<v Speaker 3>the group dropped him off at the park and he
<v Speaker 3>wasn't anywhere near the house. He was claiming that he
<v Speaker 3>was basically just given the ATM card after the summoners
<v Speaker 3>were robbed and killed for some reason. Yeah, that really
<v Speaker 3>makes sense. Sure does anybody buy this shit?
<v Speaker 17>Let me explain something to you.
<v Speaker 18>Okay, by law in Florida. If and this is really
<v Speaker 18>far fetched. If because we've talked in pretty good detail
<v Speaker 18>about what happened and everything else in the past. Okay,
<v Speaker 18>if nothing else happened other than what you told us.
<v Speaker 18>That you were there, and you said Alan and Bruce
<v Speaker 18>did all this stuff.
<v Speaker 17>But you were there and he had knowledge of it,
<v Speaker 17>you can be charged with everything.
<v Speaker 15>You're just as skilty as they. And what if I
<v Speaker 15>wasn't there them? What if I just knew about it,
<v Speaker 15>That's the thing.
<v Speaker 16>What if I actually was not there, I just kind
<v Speaker 16>of knew about it when I was saying that I was.
<v Speaker 15>Then I'm telling you this, this and that, so you
<v Speaker 15>know what I'm saying. I'm hoping I can go home
<v Speaker 15>right there.
<v Speaker 18>That sounds really good and all, except for I think
<v Speaker 18>you told us something about uh, tell something about the graves.
<v Speaker 5>Graves or though the whole.
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, you're a.
<v Speaker 5>Problem with that.
<v Speaker 15>Whoa you what about the whole?
<v Speaker 18>He told us they were pre dug. You told us
<v Speaker 18>that where they put that the whole was pre dug.
<v Speaker 18>You told us it was to scare them. And then
<v Speaker 18>you told us she held the flashlight while they're onto. Oh,
<v Speaker 18>I don't even want that night that night, you hope
<v Speaker 18>you hoped that would be enough to get you out
<v Speaker 18>of there that night because you didn't have direct involvement
<v Speaker 18>in your mind and dealing with any of this. Okay,
<v Speaker 18>damn White, you got to drop it off somewhere else,
<v Speaker 18>and you were you were not even there, and you
<v Speaker 18>were smoking with somebody else while everybody else just disappeared,
<v Speaker 18>took care of all this stuff that you had no eye.
<v Speaker 17>Everybody disappeared.
<v Speaker 15>Tiffany was there. Tiffany was there with me and Jacob.
<v Speaker 5>It was physically impossible he was that hole.
<v Speaker 15>For two people to dig that hole in that amount
<v Speaker 15>of time span, It's nothing that happened.
<v Speaker 3>During the interview with Michael, he had already said some
<v Speaker 3>things that placed him at the hole, for instance, saying
<v Speaker 3>that Carol and Reggie managed to get the duct tape
<v Speaker 3>off their mouths and hands while they were in the trunk,
<v Speaker 3>Like admitting that he heard them praying together and confessing
<v Speaker 3>their love to each other, and like coldly telling how
<v Speaker 3>Carol was moaning when they put her in the hole.
<v Speaker 3>He was moaning because she and Reggie were buried alive.
<v Speaker 3>They died by inhaling the dirt from their early grave.
<v Speaker 3>After thirty eight years, the Sumners rekindled their high school romance.
<v Speaker 3>Carol had already suffered in an abusive marriage that ended
<v Speaker 3>in her husband shooting her in the face and then
<v Speaker 3>killing himself, and currently Carol and Reggie both had significant
<v Speaker 3>health issues that they were struggling with, yet they were
<v Speaker 3>living their dream a life together in sunny Florida. When
<v Speaker 3>their good friend fell ill, they nursed him in his
<v Speaker 3>dying days and rewarded his daughter for her help with
<v Speaker 3>their altruism and ultimately their lives. On July eighth, two
<v Speaker 3>thousand and five, Tiffany and three male acquaintances robbed the
<v Speaker 3>Sumners when two of them entered the home and found
<v Speaker 3>them with tape while they pointed a realistic looking toy
<v Speaker 3>gun at them. Carol and Reggie both pleaded, saying they
<v Speaker 3>would give the intruders all the money they had. Michael
<v Speaker 3>and Tiffany waited in a car outside because Michael had
<v Speaker 3>given the order that he didn't want the Sumners to
<v Speaker 3>see his or Tiffany's face. According to Michael, he was
<v Speaker 3>going to inject them with a lethal dose of medicine
<v Speaker 3>and wait until they died to bury them. But that
<v Speaker 3>is not what happened. The couple was alive when the
<v Speaker 3>dirt was piled on top of them. Think for just
<v Speaker 3>a second of the horror of that, the sounds you
<v Speaker 3>would hear, and then silence and darkness. By the time
<v Speaker 3>Michael's last interview occurred, it was too late for him.
<v Speaker 3>Tiffany and Allen weren't saying where the bodies were, but
<v Speaker 3>Bruce Nixon was. Bruce was terrified.
<v Speaker 17>Just tell us where they're at.
<v Speaker 12>Okay, let's just tell us where they're at.
<v Speaker 5>If you want to start look at that. I tell
<v Speaker 5>this mode you will tell you right now.
<v Speaker 10>I can't.
<v Speaker 12>You're you're old enough to make that decision for yourself. Bruce,
<v Speaker 12>I know I can't. I can't do that for you, man.
<v Speaker 12>I'm telling you it's it's it's I'm not allowed to
<v Speaker 12>make that decision for you.
<v Speaker 17>Okay.
<v Speaker 12>Now you want me to be straight up, that's straight up.
<v Speaker 12>I got to be straight up with you too. We
<v Speaker 12>need to know where those bodies are. If you don't
<v Speaker 12>want to tell us anything else, tell us where those
<v Speaker 12>bodies are.
<v Speaker 5>I wouldn't tell you.
<v Speaker 12>Oh I'm just Bruce.
<v Speaker 17>Yeah, look at me.
<v Speaker 12>I wanna tell us, Bruce, I'm I'm looking at this
<v Speaker 12>when I walk in here, I saw this. It's killing you, man, I.
<v Speaker 5>Know it is. If you don't I care where the president.
<v Speaker 12>If you don't wanna tell us anything else, just tell
<v Speaker 12>us where these folks are at.
<v Speaker 17>Bruce, did I want straight to prison?
<v Speaker 5>Bruce?
<v Speaker 17>Just tell us where these folks are at.
<v Speaker 20>Birst I'm right what I tell you? Oh God, yeah,
<v Speaker 20>your head comfort. I'm gonna give you every word about right.
<v Speaker 20>Nobody see about baby or not. Well you it's good
<v Speaker 20>about you.
<v Speaker 5>You well. We we can't change what's happening. I didn't care, Okay.
<v Speaker 2>Now that's what we got honest.
<v Speaker 12>I said we we don't. That's why we makes weast
<v Speaker 12>you be honest about their truth. I tell you our
<v Speaker 12>pray truth. If you tell me lies, I can't prove lize.
<v Speaker 11>Your prother You be her brother that the whole time
<v Speaker 11>I go good, I will your brothers.
<v Speaker 5>Go you right over the paper and tell me.
<v Speaker 12>I'll tell you right now to your face. I'm walking
<v Speaker 12>through this whole thing, this whole thing. You'll be a
<v Speaker 12>best stay if I tell you the truth that I'm
<v Speaker 12>right here with you. Man, it breaks my heart to
<v Speaker 12>be in here, that you're going through all this, But
<v Speaker 12>I'll be right here. If nobody will be right here
<v Speaker 12>with you, I'll be here. All right, Can you drive better?
<v Speaker 12>Can you tell us? I know you kind of upset?
<v Speaker 17>All right, Okay, just get this here. I'll tell you.
<v Speaker 15>But this is what happened.
<v Speaker 17>Okay, all right.
<v Speaker 2>Allan told me that we were gonna rob some people
<v Speaker 2>and with some money and stuff.
<v Speaker 17>Didn't know these people, they all knew carrying the house
<v Speaker 17>and stuff.
<v Speaker 11>Go ahead, I needed money to pay you out of family,
<v Speaker 11>nobody and nobody. So afterbody we went to the house.
<v Speaker 5>We would do planning our.
<v Speaker 2>Growing up there, and we're gonna go to the house.
<v Speaker 2>And I was gonna go to the house and we
<v Speaker 2>were just gonna tell for the money and stuff and
<v Speaker 2>get their eighteen cars and get old enough of this stuff.
<v Speaker 5>Tell him, what if you have to take up her mouth.
<v Speaker 17>And stuff, what's up?
<v Speaker 2>We turned up their mouth and eyes, and they wouldn't
<v Speaker 2>tell us we They wouldn't tell us all the bait
<v Speaker 2>over nothing, but that dude, whatever his name.
<v Speaker 5>The bike or saltbody of his name, told.
<v Speaker 2>Us to put him, take him up and put him
<v Speaker 2>of the trunk of the wakeed.
<v Speaker 17>He never said we're gonna kill him, you know what
<v Speaker 17>I'm saying.
<v Speaker 11>Probably you know, he sold bring up where it was
<v Speaker 11>that they had a hold out of there.
<v Speaker 2>And then he said that he was just gonna scarel
<v Speaker 2>and the telling him the bumpers.
<v Speaker 19>And then when you were doing it, I walked away
<v Speaker 19>to the car, all right, state and I was walking
<v Speaker 19>up there, and about third later they walked back and
<v Speaker 19>asked the way one.
<v Speaker 5>They said they took care.
<v Speaker 17>Were we all that? Bruce?
<v Speaker 5>I'll be there the whole time.
<v Speaker 3>Those moments in the interview were particularly emotional, not just
<v Speaker 3>because young Bruce Nixon was terrified and heading for a
<v Speaker 3>death sentence or lifetime in prison, but because the detective
<v Speaker 3>had a son the same age as Bruce. When he
<v Speaker 3>saw the boy trembling and crying, he moved his chair
<v Speaker 3>a little closer, threw his arms around him and held
<v Speaker 3>him for what seemed like a very very long time.
<v Speaker 3>During a two thousand and seven week long trial, Tiffany
<v Speaker 3>Cole received a guilty verdict for first degree murder. The
<v Speaker 3>jury's vote, nine to three recommended the death penalty after
<v Speaker 3>seeing incriminating evidence, such as photographs capturing Tiffany and the
<v Speaker 3>two co defendants reveling in a limousine, toasting with champagne
<v Speaker 3>and clutching wads of cash the sum nurse cash. Five
<v Speaker 3>months later, a judge issued dual death sentences for the murders,
<v Speaker 3>accompanied by a life sentence for the kidnaps. Alan Wade
<v Speaker 3>and Michael Jackson also received death sentences, but Bruce Nixon
<v Speaker 3>because he cooperated with law enforcement, because he talked, and
<v Speaker 3>he was guilty, and he had something to offer, he
<v Speaker 3>got off with a little less. Put it that way,
<v Speaker 3>Bruce had taken law enforcement to the locations where the
<v Speaker 3>bodies were buried and testified against the others. He entered
<v Speaker 3>a guilty plea for second degree murder, earning him a
<v Speaker 3>forty five year prison sentence instead of life. But fate
<v Speaker 3>would intervene ten years later.
<v Speaker 21>It was Tiffany Cole who was the familiar face that
<v Speaker 21>Carol and Reggie Summoner invited into their home in July
<v Speaker 21>two thousand and five. She and two other friends used
<v Speaker 21>that friendship to plan their crime, asking for a place
<v Speaker 21>to stay during a long trip. News for Jacks brought
<v Speaker 21>updates to the community every step of the way.
<v Speaker 22>A neighbor tells family that she remembers seeing a strange
<v Speaker 22>come and go from the Sumner's house, and family says
<v Speaker 22>that they think that Carol and Reggie probably were just
<v Speaker 22>being nice, allowing the group to stay overnight so they
<v Speaker 22>didn't have to make the trip to and from Charleston
<v Speaker 22>all in one day.
<v Speaker 21>The Sumner's' bodies were found days later in a shallow
<v Speaker 21>grave in Charlton County, Georgia. They had been buried alive,
<v Speaker 21>evidence technicians showing the shovels and crime scene photos at trial.
<v Speaker 21>The three were convicted in separate trials. Tiffany Cole always
<v Speaker 21>pleaded to have her life spared. At her sentencing hearing,
<v Speaker 21>Cole begged for a life sentence so she could help others. Ultimately,
<v Speaker 21>that hearing ended in tears for Cole. She was sentenced
<v Speaker 21>to death in a nine to three decision. Something that's
<v Speaker 21>now unconstitutional after a Supreme Court ruling last year that
<v Speaker 21>found death penalty decisions need to be unanimous. Now, Cole
<v Speaker 21>won't get a new sentencing hearing, and it's likely the
<v Speaker 21>two others who were convicted in the murders of the
<v Speaker 21>Sumners will also get new hearings because their death sentences
<v Speaker 21>were also not unanimous.
<v Speaker 3>At the re sentencing, Alan Wade was given life due
<v Speaker 3>to mitigating circumstances newly introduced, but Michael Jackson was again
<v Speaker 3>sentenced to death with a unanimous vote. At the end
<v Speaker 3>of the road, as we all, eventually we'll turn back
<v Speaker 3>and look behind us, we'll be able to finally see
<v Speaker 3>how some of the winding and narrow detours came back
<v Speaker 3>together on a straight, wide highway to our destiny. We
<v Speaker 3>can make sense of the map. Sometimes. Carol and Reggie
<v Speaker 3>experienced some treacherous turns, but they found each other through
<v Speaker 3>it all. They in a way, were both the luckiest
<v Speaker 3>people on earth and the unluckiest. That's how life is,
<v Speaker 3>That's how fate works in unpredictable ways. Yet the same
<v Speaker 3>fate that reunited these lovers for a second chance also
<v Speaker 3>brought with it tormented figures from their past, with their
<v Speaker 3>own darkness and their own unresolved issues. Fate was about
<v Speaker 3>to step in yet again and claim the lives of
<v Speaker 3>the Killers as well, but yet another turn at the
<v Speaker 3>last second occurred and their lives were spared. None of
<v Speaker 3>it really makes any sense. Sometimes life doesn't make any sense.
<v Speaker 3>Carol and Reggie may have met to dead end, so
<v Speaker 3>to speak, but at least they were able to go
<v Speaker 3>out knowing they tried to do some good in the world.
<v Speaker 3>They tried, and life's ultimate surprise was allowing them one
<v Speaker 3>final embrace with each other in their last moments on earth.
<v Speaker 3>That does it for another one. Thank you so much
<v Speaker 3>for joining us. If you like to show, Sword in
<v Speaker 3>Scale television is available for you right now. Seven episodes
<v Speaker 3>available and many more coming soon. We're gonna start doing
<v Speaker 3>two a month pretty soon, so great time to sign
<v Speaker 3>up Sword and Scale dot Com. Stay saved.