Late-Round Perspectives: Danny Kelly

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Danny Kelly is a senior staff writer at The Ringer and co hosts of The Ringer Fantasy Football Show and The Ringer NFL Draft Show. He's a dad, he used to write about his beloved Seahawks, and he makes the best NFL draft comps on the planet. These are his late round perspectives. You know, I always think it's funny because like the East Coast Dad's thing that I tweet out and talk about all the time and stuff, and then I'm like, I always get responses back of people from Europe and that are like, I'm like, that's like truly truly East Coast Dad. Is the Europeans that are staying up because they're up at like four am, five am past that like watching these games. I guess they're waking up early in the morning to like watch the end of it or something like that. But it's crazy the time difference and stuff.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like one of those things where I was talking to my girlfriend about this, is like, how is the NFL gonna catch on here? Because it's like all the games are happening in the middle of the night. It's one of those I mean I know that it is. It is kind of catching on obviously. And yeah, I was in London actually during as I had a layover there, and so obviously the NFL is big in England and like I think it's spreading to Germany and some other places. But it's just crazy that you know, you have to watch these games like, you know, three in the morning on weekdays, So.

00:01:22
Speaker 1: Right, right, tough, right, That's why, like when they talk expansion into Europe and stuff, it's like, how how like how how is this going to actually work out? When you got all these fans on the West coast and then you're looking at you know, Germany or something in the hour difference, it just seems I mean, maybe they'll figure it out. They have enough money to figure something out, but yeah.

00:01:42
Speaker 3: It's still it's still.

00:01:43
Speaker 2: Very very wild.

00:01:44
Speaker 1: I'm really pumped to have you on because I feel like you're sort of you know, you just do a lot of different things within this space. Then you know, the typical nerdy analysts like myself who's just like diving into the numbers the way that I do and stuff. You do amazing work with the NFL draft each year, and you're now doing it for the Ringer.

00:02:04
Speaker 3: You know, you're doing more.

00:02:05
Speaker 1: Than just regular skill position players too, you know obviously, like I have my models and I'm getting into wide receiver, running back, and I'll tight end a little bit more too. But you're going you're literally doing everything. So I'm curious for folks who are like into that and that into that, You're a sicko, right, I mean, let's just be real, right, you know, for the sickos out there, how do you get into that in the first place. What was sort of your journey from from start to finish, you know, into into getting you know, into the draft stuff.

00:02:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, so starting I don't even know what it was. I started covering the Seahawks in like twenty eleven or something like that, and then sort of just slowly worked my way into different areas at espionation. So I was covering as the Seahawks for field goals at the time, and I wanted to expand my repertoire, so I, you know, just asked them what else I can do? So I started doing draft stuff and slowly but surely, over probably like six seven, eight years, just you know, started trying to figure out how it all worked out. And so, yeah, just watching guys at first, it was mainly like Seahawks stuff related. Then you know, as the years went on, I started doing stuff like full NFL draft coverage. And then when I came to the Ringer, we didn't really have any draft stuff at first, and they were like, hey, this is a big gap for us, and you want to do something, and I just started doing our NFL Draft guy, and so it was like I bit off this massive project. But it's turned into something that I really enjoy and now I start doing it probably in like November December, like in earnest, and so you know, it's a huge part of what I do and it's really fun and I really enjoy the draft. I think it's just you know, and it all kind of ties together with fantasy too, you know, especially with like Dynasty rookie drafts and things like that, so it all kind of like comes full full circle. But yeah, I just had to sort of teach myself and talk to a bunch of people and you know, try and soak up as much knowledge as I could over the years, and I think I've gotten better at it, but it's like one of the hardest things to do, like stuck at it. So yeah, I don't know but but yeah, yeah.

00:04:06
Speaker 1: I mean when you have these like multi million billion dollar entities that are still incredibly incredibly bad at nailing these picks, and then you got you or me or whoever analyzing this stuff. You know, it's it's very obvious that we're gonna get a lot of stuff wrong. And it's sort of like the one area within football where you're probably gonna get the most stuff wrong. And so you know, the really big you know, the the Kuipers of the world and stuff, who have just been doing this for you know, decades now, and people just you know what all over them all the time.

00:04:40
Speaker 3: It's like, all right, guys, let's let's cut them a little bit of slack.

00:04:42
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very very difficult thing to do just in general, and teams are getting it wrong all the time too. You know, you mentioned it, you know, with fantasy football. It seems to help you, you know, you know, with dynasty and stuff like that. Do you think it's helped in other ways? You know, as a fantasy analyst. Is it helpful even for your redraft leagues and stuff?

00:04:59
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I'm I mean absolutely. I think it's funny because like when you're when you're talking about how teams not even they not even they do well, and everybody craps all over you know, analysts who get things wrong. It's like I have the sort of like a running joke that I'm never going to admit I was wrong on anybody because I think, uh, situation and coaching matters so much too, Like it's I agree, you know, it's a joke, And obviously, like I've missed on plenty of guys over the years, and yeah, like just completely whiffed on whoever. But at the same time, like Justin Fields, I think is a perfect example, Like I still believe that he would have been like a really good quarterback and maybe he will end up being a really good quarterback, really good passer. I still believe he would have been a better player if he would have landed on a team that had a good support system, like the Bears are truly one of the like the worst possible places he could have landed. And obviously he hasn't elevated the guys around him. But like you see so many times, you know, players come into situations and have really good skilled players around them, have a good offensive line, have a really brilliant play caller whatever, like we're seeing that with you know, I think CJ. Stroud he landed in a surprisingly good spot because they've got Bobby Slow, who I think a lot of people are kind of thinking is a really good play caller, or at least he's done pretty well so far. They've got a couple of guys around him, and you know, I think those things so much matter for these rookies. So that was the first thing I was thinking. But I think in general, doing all the draft guide it really just helps me. It's like it gives you a foundation of what is happening in the league. And now I've been doing it, i think for like six years or five or six years now for the Ringer, and you know, like that gives me a really solid foundation of the players in the NFL and like, you know, like knowing what they what they're good at, seeing them develop over the years. Obviously, I'm not like watching all twenty two on every single player I've ever scouted in the NFL, but I feel like I have just a much broader knowledge base of like who the NFL stars are because I've been scouting these guys coming out of college and so it sort of builds on itself over the years, and you know, I think that's like the big thing that gives me the advantage on and then in fantasy, Like for me, if you're in a league that does pre draft dynasty drafts, Like, to me, that's the biggest advantage I have in any in any leagues is just like kind of knowing guys that I think are gonna go in the second third round that people are not on yet, and I can grab those guys in you know, in the third and fourth round or rookie drafts like Luke Musgrave I think was a good example of that. I got him in like the fourth round of a couple of drafts this year, and it was like, you know, this guy's gonna go in second round and he's probably gonna you know, be he has all the things you're looking for in terms of like athleticism and body control and all that. So those are some of the ways I think I can have an advantage just because I'm digging so deep into this draft stuff.

00:07:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's there's resources now too, like NFL mock Draft database or or you're grinding mocks. There's these places that are giving you more accurate projections in terms of where those guys are gonna go. And I'll be honest, just full transparency here.

00:07:57
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:07:57
Speaker 1: That's part of the reason why I felt okay, going so hard with someone like Jayden Reid this year was because you know, I liked him. My model liked him and like one of his comps in that model with Stephan Digs. So I'm like, okay, this is at least a little bit interesting. And then I saw on like NFL mock draft database and these other places I saw read going much much higher and the actual NFL draft from a mock standpoint versus where the fantasy industry sort of had him.

00:08:23
Speaker 3: And so I'm sitting there.

00:08:24
Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily think that he was gonna go in round two the way that he did, but you know, maybe a Day two guy and a lot of people he was an afterthought, right, like, like no one really cared, you know about Jaden Reid, you know, in the fantasy space, and so it was a little bit easier for me then to say, Okay, I'm gonna go in and read a little bit harder than my maybe I otherwise would, And then that, obviously, you know, pays off, and then you mentioned sort of like the holistic view of everything and being able to sort of see the league because you're you're going through each of these players. I've found the same thing over the last couple of years doing the prospect guy that I do because I've only been doing it for two years now. When you're scouting so many people and so many players as opposed to just the top guys in the class or what have you, it gives you a lot more context not just of what's going on around the league, but also how good those really good guys are because you're now seeing sort of like how bad not bad, I mean, they're obviously entering the league, but how average let's say some of these other players are. And then you're like, oh, man, oh this guy's really really special. If this is the alternative and sort of kind of kind of working working from that perspective, then one more thing, I think another great example of what you're talking about with the coaching stuff and the scheme stuff is Devon ah Chan, where I don't you know, they're like, like, we can't take away from what these players do in their environment, right, Like it's not fair to necessarily do that. But I think anyone listening to this, if we're just being totally realistic, if Devon ah Chan doesn't go to Miami, yeah probably, I mean I don't even think probably. I think the best landing spot he could have possibly have gone to, right, like if he's if he's in Pittsburgh or something random, right, there's no way yeah right, yeah, yeah yeah, Matt Canada is not using Devon ai Chan first off. But yeah, yeah, I mean, like like I just feel like, you know, we have to be cognizant of that piece to this and that I think it's really about just opening your mind up to range of outcomes a little bit and understanding that the outcome of how a player performs is not necessarily just on that player. And that's part of the reason why we see late career resurgences or a change of scenery. Helping some guys doesn't happen frequently, you know usually, you know, I think also like it just ruins these guys psyches a little bit, like Justin Fields might not become by the way we're recording this before Thursday Night Football, So who knows how Justin Fields does. But you know, Justin Field's on a you know, moving forward, if he does leave Chicago, Let's say it's not like he's starting fresh. You know, he's had this like this this this confidence bust, and he's just now all of a sudden, you know, not the same quarterback that he was necessarily entering the league.

00:10:54
Speaker 3: But I think it's a very very good point to make overall.

00:10:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think just to talk about like the h or a Chan thing, I think is a great point. And it's like the other guy that comes to mind when you're saying that is like Puku Naku if he goes to another team, I mean, he's probably buried on the depth chart, not having not setting records for like the greatest start for a rookie receiver of all time, like truly. And so I think, to me, like big picture, you know, doing the draft guide and being really highly involved in Dynasty, Like I love Dynasty. It's like my my, you know, format of choice or whatever, and fantasy it teaches you a little bit of humility, I think, just because like you know, a lot of these drafts are happening before the draft and I look back and I'm like, man, I could have gotten Pookah there, I could have gotten Pooka there. But it's like he was a fifth round you know, he's like a fifth rounder, like we all kind of thought he was gonna be a mid round guy. He wasn't on anybody's radars. Really, he just landed in a perfect situation for his skill set. The quarterback is going to feed him, and now he is like worth the first round pick, you know what I mean, And he might have an awesome career because he's like linked up in this perfect situation. Same with a Han, Like when he like in Miami, I was like fist pumping so hard because I love Sam. Yeah, I loved him as a player. I was very well aware that he's like a total outlier one hundred and ninety pounds and maybe he's never going to pan out. Maybe this is just like a pipe dream that he'll be anything in the NFL. But I loved watching him in college. I thought his explosiveness was pretty special. And you know, him landing there is like, man, that's perfect and we've already seen it. Like he's like the RB three in freaking fantasy right now, yeah what I mean, Like, so yeah, I think it's it's it's again just to like circle around. It's sort of my joke that like I've I've never wrong. It's always just like situation and coaching. But obviously I'm not serious, but like it does have such a massive impact on like how guy's careers go early on.

00:12:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also with a lot of your work, I have to say I have to w the Comparable's Master, the comp the comp King, Danny Kelly, because in that Ringer Draft Guide each year you have the shades of section, which essentially you know comps that you're thrown out there. Let me let me throw a couple of them out there before before I ask you how your brain works to come up with these things. So Bryce Young this year was was fran Tarkenton meets Jason Kidd. That was the Price Young one. Joe Joey Porter Junior one was great too, It says for Joey Porter Junior it was like if Joey Porter had a son who played corner.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: My favorite that family. I also had James Cook last year it was like if Dalvin Cook had a little brother. I always like doing those, but yeah, I think I don't. I honestly, like you you asked me like how I think of these, I honestly don't know. It's like these random, like intrusive thoughts that come into my brain. But I'm like watching players, uh, you know whatever in college and sometimes just weird stuff comes to my mind when I watch one player or whatever, and and I kind of run with it. I like to do the comps simply because, like, I feel like draft coverage in general is kind of just like uptight a little bit.

00:13:58
Speaker 1: Is No, you're totally right, and yeah, and your guide for the record, the guide in the way that you guys display it, in the design of it, and all of it put together, it really gives you not that vibe for the record, So you're doing exactly what you're you're setting out to do, is to not be you know, the sort of the dry you know, draft analysts that we see on TV and stuff.

00:14:17
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I think I'm just very self aware that I'm gonna get a lot of stuff wrong, and I want to just like basically try and describe these players as I see them and what they can be and what their ceiling is, and you know, maybe describe some reasons that they might not work out too. And so yeah, I think, you know, doing sort of weird off the wall, like I do some NBA comps, like I had Kenth Walker last year or two years ago or whatever it was. Was JK. Dobbins and Tim Hardaway, Like just the way he like changes like crosses guys up and like changes direction, crosses over the field, all that stuff. Going back a couple of years. This one that sticks out to me was Zach Wilson was Baker Mayfield and Henry Rowan Gartner. For people that don't remember that, that's of the year beautiful movie like from the nineties or something like that, where it's like basically a little kid with like a rocket arm because he breaks his arm or all of a sudden he can throw like a one hundred mile out gas And so Zach Wilson, to me, he still looks like a little kid, like he's he's right, that's very paper faced out there.

00:15:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you got the you got the the youth on his side playing with these older eyes and just exactly like Rowan Gardner.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great one.

00:15:23
Speaker 2: So I think my favorite one of all time was Keeveon Thibodeau was a t Rex and a tom Cat that was like a Calvin Hobbs reference. It's just like makes absolutely no sense. But you know, one of those things I just thought of. So, yeah, I try, I try and like keep it a little bit more lighthearted because I don't want to pretend I'm like, you know, an actual NFL scout. I'm doing everything from sort of the outside looking in. And I know the NFL scouts are like getting a lot of you know, basically the big part of their job is really just you know, doing like private eye stuff, like getting into the personal lives of these players and seeing how hard they can work. And I'm just watching the tape and I think, you know, so that's something I've got to be you know, cognizant of and talk about.

00:16:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is another element to all of this that we can't really get exposed to is the character piece. And you know, some people have tried to do you know, modeling or or like you know seeing some like interview related grading and stuff like that, which I have no idea, you know, No, no, I'm not judging at all, but you know, it's just it's just another element that we are really incapable of really being part of and and and putting that into our process. We just have to to see what these NFL teams are doing, which is why I think from like a fantasy perspective, it's also another piece as to why draft capital can and can't matter.

00:16:40
Speaker 2: You know.

00:16:40
Speaker 1: I think that like, like it's being embedded hopefully in draft capital in some way, and that's why some guys fall sometimes is just because of the off the field stuff and that oftentimes will then translate to them just not being you know, super hard workers.

00:16:55
Speaker 3: You know on the field.

00:16:56
Speaker 1: Uh you know another thing, you know, you mentioned that you were, you know, right, editor in chief right at Field Goals before all of this, so you have a strong tie to the Seattle Seahawks naturally. So I'm curious because I've gotten to the point now where I think a lot of people who listen to this show don't even know that I am born and raised Pittsburgh, And you know, I'm not as much of a Steeler fan as I used to because it's just difficult for me to like be as die hard as I was when I was, you know, eighteen nineteen years old, right, But you know, I've sort of separated myself. But when you're when you're writing for a website that's covering that team, have you found it to be difficult to sort of not just separate your fandom as an analyst, but sort of think about how the way the way that people might be viewing you as an analyst and them assuming that there's some sort of bias. Obviously, you know, you're you're a level headed human being and you're not going to like let that steep into your analysis that much.

00:17:49
Speaker 3: But has that popped up? Has that been an issue for you?

00:17:52
Speaker 2: Not so much lately. I think obviously when I was covering the Seahawks, like really really in depth, and especially for a fan site where it's truly you know, Field Goals was like fan run. Everyone on the site is like big fans, and we kind of we're all super obsessed with with the Seahawks, and you know, from that point of view, we did a lot of different things, covering x's and o's, covering everything essentially, so it's like unavoidable that you're going to be considered a homer. I think I used to get in more arguments on Twitter than I do now. I feel like over the years, I've just just decided and realized more that it's like not worth doing it, Like it's just really doesn't help anyone kind of yeah.

00:18:35
Speaker 1: Plus plus you become you become a parent, and you're just like, this is just not something that I need to waste my time on.

00:18:41
Speaker 2: Lot of re sen It's like, I just don't. I don't need to use my emotional energy to like argue with people on the internet. It's like, also, you're probably not gonna win any arguments, and if you do, like I don't know whatever. So I over the years, I have gotten into less arguments about it, and I think that helps me sort of disconnect and not be quite so biased. I the one thing I will say, working for the Ringer, it's like I don't have to necessarily hide that I'm a Seahawks fan, which is really nice. And I know a lot of like Bill Simmons huge Patriots fan, no one is He's not hiding that at all, and so I think that's one kind of nice thing is I get to be a fan. But at the same time, I'm with you, like covering the entire NFL, covering fantasy, I would say, like my hardcore fandom has just naturally sort of waned over the years. I still definitely watched the Seahawks are the first team I'll watch, but you know, at the end of the day, I'm not It's not affecting my mood necessarily if they lose. I know that sounds kind of like harsh.

00:19:36
Speaker 3: Or like bandwagony, yeah stuff. Yeah, no, I feel you.

00:19:40
Speaker 2: I feel you, but like you know, honestly, this is sad maybe, but like I get more sad if like my fantasy teams Seahawks do, which I tells you how big of a sicko I am with fantasy nowadays. And so yeah, I would say love the Seahawks. I still would definitely. I definitely pay attention to them the most of any team. But you know, I'm not I think over the years, I've sort of proven that I'm not like completely just utterly biased towards the Seahoux. I think, you know, everybody has a little bit of bias, and that's what makes this interesting. But I think I can be pretty dispassionate about them too and just like say it like it is more or less, and so yeah, I think it's just one of those things. It's not as it's not as big of an issue for me anymore because I'm allowed to be a CX fan. At the same time, I don't like cover them individually anymore, so it doesn't really matter.

00:20:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't tell if my detachment from the Steelers or your detachment from the Seahawks is because of what we do for a living, right and like us, like anaalog and like you know, part of me is like I become like I appreciate these teams a lot more outside of Pittsburgh, you know, like I can look at the Ravens and be like, I love Lamar Jackson. Whereas you tell me, you know, fifteen year old me, that you're gonna like the quarterback for the Ravens or the Browns or I shouldn't said the Browns, but the Bengals or what have you. I would say, no, there's not a chance. I can't tell if it's you know, the detachment is is due to that, you know, the appreciation and what we're doing for a living in the analysis that we do, or just straight up maturity, if this was just naturally happened, you know, as we got older in general. So I have no idea, but I do know that that detachment has definitely occurred. Let's move on to some fantasy football related topics, some specific some guys that that you know some some news items that's going on around the league. Jamison Williams suspension gets reduced this past week. He's now eligible to play, which is sweet. You know, we haven't really seen him, you know in the NFL he ran like thirty seven routes or something last year.

00:21:33
Speaker 3: So he's now sort of the hot item in fantasy football.

00:21:35
Speaker 1: You know, if he was still out there on waivers, he was probably the number one waiver wire ad for many this week. What are your expectations for him in this Lion's offense? What do you see as his ceiling? And you know, how did you view him as a prospect too.

00:21:48
Speaker 2: I was very high on him as a prospect. I think after a year and a half or whatever, like, I have some pretty heavy worry about him. I think it's a couple of different things. Number One, and obviously he was coming off the injury, so it's almost like we probably should throw out what happened in year one. But it was a little bit worrisome that he was not really running a ton of routes once he got back on the field. It sounded like the coaching staff was a little bit annoyed with him not taking it seriously and not maybe not knowing the offense as much as he should have. So that's worrisome, especially because he's been away from the team during this four game suspension. He hasn't been like in the facility. I think there's just a lot of variables here that make me really worried. But at the same time, like I have him on a couple of redraft teams and I'm like really hoping he can kind of like hit the ground running. Show some of the reasons that he was like the twelfth over our pick or whatever it was, I can't remember exactly eleventh or twelfth, and you know, show why this Lion's team was so excited to get him, and also like there's a there's a real spot for him, like they need him, I think based on his skill set. You know, he's a tap top, take the top off the defense type of player, like great speed, run after catchability. You know, there's there's a lot of I think potential here, but there's also just a lot of pitfalls potentially happening here, Like the coaching staff, like look at how they're using frigging Jamior Gibbs. Like there's I think there's like a solid chance like fifty to fifty that he's just is like a part like a spot player, Like he'll play like thirty percent of the snaps, you know, run some deep routes, get a couple of targets here and there. I think there's a chance that happens. I would say, like realistically, without injuries happening in this offense. Like he's like a boom er bust wide receiver three type of player, Like he'll he'll have a couple of big games here and there and then be a little bit you know, invisible in other games. If there is an injury, it looks like it looks like I'm on Rossin Brown has a domino injury right now. He's also has a foot injury. Like if I'm on Rossaint Brown goes down, Like I think Jamison Williams could have wide receiver two upside just based on his talent. So I'm kind of holding out hope and I'm optimistic relative to like I'm trying to be realistic about it because you know, he hasn't really showed us anything yet, but it's hard hard to forget just like his talent, what he did at Alabama his final season there, and so and obviously, I think this is a good offense. Like Jared Goff is a pretty good quarterback and he can get the ball to these guys. So, you know, that's a lot of words to say. I don't know, but like I think he's got you know, he's got like wide receiver two potential, I would.

00:24:18
Speaker 3: Say, yeah.

00:24:20
Speaker 1: The other the thing that I kept describing Jamison Williams as is just a dude.

00:24:24
Speaker 3: With a lot of bad vibes over the last like year and a half or something.

00:24:29
Speaker 1: I do think, you know, as an aside, I do think that because you know, I had Jamison ranked at the last part of that tier last year from like a rookie draft standpoint, right, so he was still in that tier. But I do think that it should be a lesson for dynasty managers, especially that when a dude is coming off in acl like that and he's not going to play year one more than you know, at least not play a lot year one, we probably should discount that in some way, you know, Like I think that's a good lesson because it's not like there were bad alternatives in last year's draft class. And you know, you were right, like a lot of people are drafting Williams over Garrett Well, and I'm not saying that like from like a pure prospect standpoint. If you like Jamison and Williams more than Garrett Wilson or more than Chris Alave or you know, there's Traylon Burks and Drake London last year, if you liked him the most. That's one thing I'm saying strictly from like a game theory perspective. If the dude's going to be out for the year or most of the year, the chance that he's going to really see a dramatic rise in value within the dynasty market, you know it's probably pretty slim, right, And so you know we ended up seeing that as a result.

00:25:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a very good point. And it's also because like even when you see guys miss a little bit of time in the preseason, are in training camp, like it that really can set a rookie back, Yeah, for like years, honestly, sometimes years one or two years if they miss time in training camp. You know, if they don't really get on the same page with the offensive play caller or whatever they can, it's just it can be hard to get back in to the offense. You know, and we've seen this time and time again. I mean Trailing Burks is a good example, Like he just I I probably was overrating Traylon Burke's coming into the league, and I recognize that now, But like at the same time, he's had such a bad run of like luck with injuries and obviously, you know, being out of shape not a good look. This is like sort of what we're dealing with Jameson Willms. Like maybe there's some maturity issues here. Maybe he's just, you know, I don't know, like kind of a knucklehead and needs to kind of mature and get back like to working really hard or whatever. Like I don't know. That's kind of just what the impression I've gotten from the coaching staff is so far. But I think Trailon Burks had the same issues and it's been a slow star for him. This is also not a very good offense. So yeah, I don't know. I'm generally I'm pretty excited about Jameson Willms, but I also think there's like a pretty solid chance he just is a bust, you know.

00:26:40
Speaker 1: And there's guys a bust, right, right, And I had my Year two model that looks at how guys did year one, it combines that with their prospect scored, it spits out a score of how they're going to do in years.

00:26:50
Speaker 3: Two and year three.

00:26:52
Speaker 1: And Jamison Williams looked like garbage after year one because he didn't play right right, So like, like you don't you don't get any inputs from year one, obviously score is gonna drop. And the number one player in the year two section of my prospect guy that people talk to me about was Jamison Williams. And they were like, why you know, Jamo looks horrible. He's like a seventy fifth percentile guy right now. And I'm like, yeah, I understand if you don't want to buy into that, that's fine, Like this is just a model spitting out a number. But if you really look back at history, you know, over the last decade plus, you know, ten to twelve years, the only wide receiver that missed significant time year one, and then you look at year two and year three. Because remember I'm stopping at year three here, I'm not looking beyond year three. The only why not that really did anything was Mike Williams. And Mike Williams didn't, I mean, he didn't really become what where he was drafted, right, he didn't become the Mike Williams that many thought that he could become. I think that's a really good point to make too, that these guys getting off to slow starts, it's more than just.

00:27:48
Speaker 3: Oh, they're not playing in those games. It's reps. It's them getting used to the NFL game.

00:27:53
Speaker 1: And if you have the maturity issues on top of that, which he may or may not. You know, we're speculating obviously, but you know.

00:27:59
Speaker 3: That that could that could be a problem.

00:28:00
Speaker 1: With that being said, I still think that he was the top waiver wire at this past week because you're still chasing that upside, you're still going after it, and like you said, he still was a really good prospect. I mean yeah, yeah, Like the talent was there for sure.

00:28:13
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I'm trying to think of some other guys that like kind of fall into his category. The other guy that came to mind was I think his teammate at Alabama. It's like John Metchi missed most of his rookie season obviously out of his control. He had lukeymate, but he was also coming off an injury, and he is like not even a part of that offense really and so like there's just a chance he doesn't really work out. Tank Dell is coming on, Nico Collins looks amazing, And these are the types of things that players who fall behind with have to They have to deal with these types of situations where it could be really hard to work your way back into an offense if you're you know, missing time early in your career. I think I saw that with Rashad Penny for for years in Seattle. Like, you know, he just he broke his hand in train camp his first season with Seahawks, and then Chris Carson took his job, and the Seahawks were just like, well, we're not going to give this job back to deal less you earn it. And so he basically never did until like you're four, and so it just can really set you apart, set you back. And again, this is why situation matters so much.

00:29:10
Speaker 1: Let me talk about another rookie, the guy that you brought him up already for Detroit, and that's Jamior Gibbs. You know, we've seen some frustrating usage so far to start the season. I sort of am in the camp of you know, in week three, in sorry, in week four, in particular, if you only look at that game and you ignore everything else, the usage that we saw from Week one to three, all of that, if you only look at that one game, I think people were just kind of like understating how good David Montgomery was in that particular game, you know, And it's very difficult for me to like walk away from that and be like, that's the game that we got a pinpoint and say that the Lions are misusing Jamiir Gibbs, even though I do think that they're probably misusing Jamil Gibbs some way. So how do you feel about Gibbs overall, how they're using him? Where he's at, maybe rest of season, and you know, is he gonna live up to his draft day hype eventually?

00:29:56
Speaker 2: Right? I would say, first off, he looks good to like, he looks extremely electric. Maybe not in this last game. I don't know if he really showed it in this last game, but like over the first month of the season, like you can see why they were so excited about him. He's super electric. He's a good pass catcher. I would say, like situationally, he hasn't really broken off a big play yet, and there's been a couple of plays he was I think Dan Campbell credited him or like blamed him for the pick six against the Seahawks, which is not a great look, of course, But I would say there's enough flashes that I'm not necessarily worried he's not good, you know what I mean. I'm not worried he's not a good player. I think where I am worried, and this is this is this was always the bear case for him coming into the league is that he's not getting enough touches. And I think, you know, obviously, I don't think anyone expected him to be like a Bellkow type of guy, carry the ball thirty times a game, anything like that. But I think when he's playing like twenty five percent of snaps like that is not great. And that's like, yeah, I remember I wrote it, I think in my in my Dynasty Rookie draft article or whatever that like if they don't use it, Like if if you look at all the top twelve picks of the last you know, twenty years or whatever, it's like all of them got massive volume except for like one or two guys like C. J. Spiller. For whatever reason, the Bills just didn't want to use him when he was a rookie, and he c J Spiller, by the way, kind of fits the mold of like this type of player where he's not very big, and so that was always the bare case. That was always like the worst case scenario. And I even said in my article, like if they don't if they don't give him enough touches, like they should be fired. Why were they taking him at twelve overall? Right, you know, blah blah blah. At the same time, they're still winning. David Montgomery looks great, so you can kind of like understand from their point of view why they're using him the way they're using him. I do think as the games go on, as the season goes on, he's gonna be more involved. I think he's gonna rip off a few big plays, probably score a few touchdowns, and he's gonna be come closer to like paying off his his ADP or whatever cost. That being said, I do think situationally, it's it's tough to see him have like a really league winning upside right now, unless unless David Montgomery gets hurt, and so that's a little disappointing. I'm not I'm not bailing on him in Dynasty at all. I think he's still going to be a really good player. I would just say, you know, the snap counts and the usage and the target rate especially is a little bit discouraging through a month, and you know, it's it's it's kind of a bummer, honestly, because I want to see him get like the type of volume we're seeing from like devon a chain where you know, like he's a huge part of this offense, but it's just not happening.

00:32:28
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:32:29
Speaker 1: I think too that if we were to remove where people were drafting Jamior Gibbs and redraft, like even if you just forget, I mean, you can you can even bake in the fact that they took him twelfth overall or whatever it was. If people weren't drafting Gibbs. I mean, there were some high stakes drafts that I saw and that I was even in where he went in the second round very like fairly consistently. That was a little bit too much for me, you know, I thought I thought he was like a mid third, late third round pick. And I think that though if you ignore the ADP aspect of things, people would not be nearly as up in arms about what's going on in Detroit right now. This is to me purely a fantasy football drip frustration driven.

00:33:07
Speaker 3: Thing, which is totally fine.

00:33:08
Speaker 1: People can be really ticked off about what's what goes on usage wise with their players and stuff, and you know, he's not fitting this trend of what we've seen historically, like you said, you know, from these like early early first round picks and even first round picks in general. But I do think that we're sort of in this situation where it's probably just gonna end up being David Montgomery was the value and Jamier Gibbs was just fine enough.

00:33:30
Speaker 3: Or maybe maybe even below.

00:33:32
Speaker 1: You know, he plays a little bit below expectation based on his ADP, and you just have to kind of accept that and then kind of play based off of that.

00:33:40
Speaker 2: You know.

00:33:40
Speaker 1: It's I think a lot of people are just sort of anchored based on where they drafted him, and that's sort of doing them a disservice as a fantasy manager right now.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, I mean he's got a fourteen percent target rate, like that's yeah, that's good, and I think he's looked good and so I think the touchdowns are going to come, like he's gonna start ripping off some big plays. Yeah, and it'll feel better I think as we go along. But you're exactly right, Like, he's probably just not going to pay off, right, people were taking him and like I remember in one league, I paid way too much for him and it's really hurt me and I'm not doing well in that league. But I am still rather like excited about what he can do the rest of the season. I think he's a good player. I think he's gonna be fine.

00:34:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, And don't don't lose sight of the contingent upside for both him and David Montgomery, Right, if one of them go down. We saw it against Atlanta where Jamiir Gibbs saw a bigger workload. You know, his target share wasn't quite there, but the game script didn't really a call for them to dump it off to him and give him a lot of looks through the air. Right, So don't discount the fact that there's still a lot of upside embedded in that player that we have to always keep in mind. You know, if he goes down, you know, it's not like a Kyron Williams situation where Williams is already seeing all of the touches in his backfield, and if like Ronnie Rivers gets hurt or something like that, it literally does not matter because Williams is already kind of maxing out where his potential is, whereas there are still you know that that that upside still exists based on that injury, and that's why these players were drafted where they were in redraft leagues, right because there was another player in their backfield. You know, then that's still matters, So don't lose sight of that either. We have a big news item with Cooper Cup. Is he is he not returning at the time in this recording, we don't really know exactly where he's at. Seems like he was practicing, which is good and seems like he really wants to get on the field. But reporting is just like all over the place with Cooper Cup right now. Yeah, but one of the one of the big questions. I answered this in my Mailbag episode. But I do think that that having a different perspective would be a really really nice for people to hear. We got pookin Akua, we have Cooper Cup. With Cooper Cupp returning, are you now nervous about Pookinakua and his role in this offense and what he might be able to do in fantasy football.

00:35:47
Speaker 2: Uh, not really, I think I mean this is sort of obvious, I guess, but I think he's not going to get as many targets. And you know, in this offense, when if and when Cup comes back, and it sounds like, I mean, I don't know, it's it seems like he's gonna come back. I think there's questions over like his longevity and things like that, right, like right Cooper Cup and how long he can keep playing if if you know, this is a bigger injury than people are kind of letting on. But I generally think he's probably gonna play this year and see how it goes, and they're gonna go for it, and he's probably gonna get a ton of targets. He's probably gonna sort of drop back into the number one receiver this of this offense and get a ton of production. And I think Pooka can still be and because he's playing more, you know, people are kind of joking that he's the new Cup, but he's he's definitely playing sort of like the the Robert Woods role in the offense. Where he's outside. You know, he's he's doing things that are complimentary to what Cooper Cup can do. And so I think there's still gonna be a lot of Puka Nakua. I think he obviously has the trust of Matt Stafford and that's important. Obviously they're having breakfast together like that. This is like the biggest variable in fantasy football in the last five years. Like if you if you had breakfast with Matt Stafford, like check yes or no, going to take you in the first round, but like, yeah, I think the way that they funnel like targets in this offense, I'm still very excited about Pukunuku. I think he's He's not a flash in the pan because I think he is exactly what this offense needs and he's a perfect fit for that, and he's a perfect fit for Matt Stafford. He's a big, tough, physical guy. Like I've I've been very impressed with him, not just from like a target standpoint, but just like the way he plays. So I think, you know, I'm not necessarily I'm not panicking about Pooka. I don't think you can expect him to be a top five receiver necessarily but I do think he could still finish as a wide receiver one in the in this league. And so yeah, I'm very interested to see what happens with Cooper Cup. Obviously, because there was like this is stupid, but like there's clips of him running like a ladder. I saw like a I was like, he looks pretty good. Like he didn't look like he was going slow. He's like cutting, he was exploding off of his back foot, and I'm like, okay, let's go. Let's let's get this going and see how it all goes. Obviously there's a big injury a reinjury risk, I'm sure, but you know, I just want to see him out there and see how the salt goes.

00:38:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, Me too, And I agree with you the the the Robert Woods thing was actually a comp that. You know, I wasn't the first to say it, for sure. I Mean there's there were people during like literally when he was drafted that were saying like this could be you know, the Robert Woods in this offense. But then you know, you start to see all the hype going on over the summer, and it was like, all right, well maybe this is you know, he had a really good yards per route run raid his final collegiate season, and there were some signs that pokin Aakua could ball, and we're obviously seeing him play really well. You mentioned his physicality. I I only bring that up because if you haven't watched pokin Kakua play, you should. You need to watch Pokinakua play because it is it's like legitimately entertaining because he's throwing his body around.

00:38:40
Speaker 3: Like crazy out there.

00:38:42
Speaker 1: Yeah and uh, and it's it's not something that you always see, you know, from wide receivers who you know, there's some guys who who will just fall down, you know when it comes to contact, and he is not that kind of player.

00:38:51
Speaker 3: I think he can still maintain.

00:38:53
Speaker 1: You know, when people people make the the the the argument that you should just sell guys like of Nikua because there's going to be a dip in production. If the market's not reacting that way, then you can't sell that player. Like if you can sell Pookin Nakua for Stefan Diggs right now, who is one spot below him in overall rankings, sure go for it, like make that trade.

00:39:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's not that's not.

00:39:14
Speaker 1: Happening right now in re draft leagues like you're not You're not able to get Stefan Diggs for pookin Aakua. And as a result, I agree with you. I think that he can co exist. He's played thirty percent of his he's run thirty percent of his routes from the slot, when Cup is usually in that sixty percent range. I mean they're they're not playing the exact same role, even though it's an easy narrative to just say, oh, this is the Cooper Cup role in this offense.

00:39:35
Speaker 3: So I'm with you, man, I think he's just like good.

00:39:39
Speaker 2: This is one of those another one of those players that just seems to fall through the cracks in the trap for whatever reason. It's like and I don't know. He wasn't even playing like a full compliment of snaps for his college team. I don't. I don't know what's going on there.

00:39:50
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

00:39:52
Speaker 2: But like you said, the yards for route run, he was like number one, I think in college football last year. And then yeah, he's like pfs' top grader receiver, so obviously was doing something right. I remember watching Bold, Zach Wilson and Jaren Hall and Pooka Nikua. This guy Pooka Nakuak kept like flashing and it kept obviously like Hindsight's twenty twenty. But I remember looking, I like stop and like look up who this guy is at a couple different times because I'm like, man, this guy keeps making plays. So I think he is a legit good player. But like I said earlier, you know, he just fell to the right team the right situation. Obviously, Cooper Cup got hurt and he was able to go out and ball out and he's later literally like setting records. Yeah, so I don't think it's a total fluke, but I yeah, I think he's still going to maintain his role. It's just you can't expect him to be like a top three, top five guy anymore.

00:40:40
Speaker 3: Right, so you're a Seahawks guy. We got to talk to the Seahawks.

00:40:43
Speaker 2: Man.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: I have two very pressing Seahawks questions, the first one being Jackson Smith and Jigba. He's making me look like a moron right now.

00:40:54
Speaker 3: I guess he's not. The Seahawks as a team are right now. You know, I went from you know.

00:41:00
Speaker 1: The first couple weeks of season, he had a fairly similar target shair to like Metcalf and Lockett.

00:41:04
Speaker 3: It was just as a dot was a little bit low.

00:41:06
Speaker 1: But he's coming off that wrist and so on, so you could at least say, oh, maybe he's more of a buy than a sell at this point.

00:41:12
Speaker 3: Now I'm nervous. I mean, I'm very, very scared.

00:41:14
Speaker 1: This is just gonna be an l for me, you know, at least this season in terms of him being something significant. My stance, just to give you a little a preface here, my stance is partially that at the very least he's got that injury upside of if something happens to Metcalf or Lockett all of a sudden, he's a wide receiver two potentially in fantasy football.

00:41:34
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, but without.

00:41:36
Speaker 1: That injury, I thought there would still be some flex appeal, right, and there is no flex appeal whatsoever with how they're using him that low a dot, not a massive target chair on that low a dot. What should fantasy managers be doing? And is something going to change out of this buy? Because obviously he had that wrist injury and then he comes back a lot faster than everyone thought. He also is a rookie. It's gonna take some time for some some of these guys. So where are you at with him? Is there any hope?

00:42:03
Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, I mean I think so from a dynasty point of view, I'm not panicking whatsoever. And I think he still was my number one receiver in this class. Like everything we heard from training camp was incredible, Like he was having the best practice of any player, Like almost every day it felt like like the beat reporters were talking about how he was just dominating. I still think he's got that upside to be like that guy for the Seahawks. But I think situationally, again, this goes back to what we talked about earlier, like getting hurt was not good, Like he got hurt at the worst possible time and essentially the Seahawks had to like move on without him. And I think there's also a couple situational factors that are really playing into this. And this is not excuse making necessarily, This is just the fact is he's playing behind DK Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, who this offense is funneled through and has been for years, And they're both really really high end receivers that have a ton of chemistry with Gino Smith. So like that number one is you know, just like the thing that's kind of standing his way, He's not gonna be any better right now, I think than the number three option in this offense, so that that's working against him. The other thing that's working against him is both of the Seahawks offensive tackles got hurt in Week one and or Week two or whatever it was, and so the Seahawks have been sort of and this was always kind of a fear with them because they'd love their tight ends and they're playing a lot of twelve personnel. It's working, by the way, like the Seahawks offense has been pretty good, other than that first half of the first game against the Rams where they completely couldn't do anything, Like the Seauks offense has been pretty good moving the ball, making a lot of first downs, and they're two tight end, three tight end set things and like schemes and plays that they're using are I think a big part of mitigating some of the issues that they're having with the injuries on offensive line, and so you know they're not going to go away from those things they're working. It helps with their play action game, it helps with a run game. Kenth Walker has been balling out and so I think they don't have like a field, they don't have a strong need right now to like get Jackson Smith a jigbo more involved kind of it's like just the bottom line. And so you know, maybe I'm being naive, Maybe we should be more worried about this, but I'm just really not worried about him. From a dynasty point of view, I think we year one he was always going to be like realistically an injury insurance type thing for the Sioux. Like I think he's you know, still going to play part like moving the chains on third downs so that he's like that, I think is where he can show a lot of value, you know, getting open, uh, giving Gino Smith sort of like a dump off option in the short and intermediate area, which is exactly what we've seen so far. You know, when you have Lockett and DK Metcalf, like two of the best deep ball like receivers in the NFL, Like, why are you going to force the ball to Jacksons with the jig been necessarily or why are you going to design place for him to get deep? I still think they're going to come, but maybe just not consistently. In year one. I think where he's really valuable to the Seax and why they were willing to take him in the first round is when the Seahawks have had injuries at receiver in the last couple of years, you can metcaff for a title lote, like the offense is really falling off back and they just can't do anything because then teams can really zero in on one of the other guys, like they tried to draft like Dwayne Eskridge. That guy did he just did not work out whatsoever. Another guy that got hurt early in his career and it's just like disappeared. And so you know, I think, you know, realistically, he is a injury. He's almost like a receiver handcuff at this point. I don't think he's going to be a big, big part of this offense as long as these two guys are are balling out, especially when they have both of their offensive tackles. But four of five starters on the offensive line are out right now for the Seahawks. Yeah, and so the two tight ent thry titan set stuff is sort of mitigating that and they it's working, and so I just don't, you know, from a Rejeff point of view, I'm not super optimistic about Jackson's with the jig, but I do think long term, though I'm still very excited about what he can do, it's just going to take a little longer than we were hoping.

00:45:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I was hoping that he could maybe be like a wide receiver three with those guys active and in this offense.

00:45:56
Speaker 3: But I think you're right.

00:45:56
Speaker 1: I think that the offensive line injuries and then them running a lot more.

00:46:00
Speaker 3: Or twelve than expected. You know, I think a lot of folks thought that.

00:46:03
Speaker 1: It was just gonna be a lot of eleven, like we saw with the rams, you know, early on in Sean mcvay's career, and it's just not been that way, and that's definitely played a role.

00:46:11
Speaker 3: You know.

00:46:11
Speaker 1: I think that if you want to think about it super optimistically, you could always say, oh, he was hurt and now they're gonna, you know, come out of the by and they're gonna run them a lot more eleven. But I think that your logic here makes a lot more sense than just having that that hopium, you know, with with with the way they operate the offense.

00:46:28
Speaker 2: He they love their tight ends like Pete Carroll loves like Will Disley. They resigned Will Disley to like a ludicrously large contract, you know what I mean. He I think he's hurt right now, so that maybe this is a way that he that jexaspathic Jibba can get more involved is I think, I don't know what he's his status is this week, but he's been kind of banged up. Will Disley has and so I don't know who who knows, maybe that happens, But they're they're happy using Parkinson has been like a pretty good playmaker for them in situations, and of course we've seen more from no Fan over the last few weeks. So I think they really like their tight ends. It's kind of just a hindrance to the fantasy thing. And as you know, like Pete Carroll doesn't really give a crap about fantasy. He's just he's going to keep doing what he wants to do and it's right now it's working.

00:47:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, speaking of which, Zach Sharboney, right, they go out, they draft Sharbonay in round two. I like Sharp is a good bit as a prospect. I thought that he was like maybe even a little bit more of an explosive like James Connor type, and so far he's actually looked good in his leaded touches. I thought he's been great, and that just pisses me off even more that he could be dominating as an RB one another team. Yeah, yeah, right exactly. So I want to I want to get your thoughts on what their thought process was in making that pick. You know, I speculated a little bit throughout the off season that yes, it's frustrating that they made that second round selection because the draft capital spent.

00:47:50
Speaker 3: But if you look at what Kenneth.

00:47:52
Speaker 1: Walker did year one, very much a home run hitting guy, and Zach Sharboney very much not that he's a grinder, right, And that's just like the mentality that Pete Carroll probably just once on the team that may you know, So do you agree with that number one? And then also the receiving stuff, because Kenneth Walker hasn't been like that big of a receiver, you know, dating back to you know, even college, but so like there was that angle to it too. But do you see Sharp's role in this offense getting bigger or do you think that the way we saw it maybe in you know, last the last week, you know, right against the giants where they get up big Sharbone is maybe grinding it out a little bit more than than Walker. There might be more of like a fifty to fifty split down the stretch, but Walker is the dude in the first half and maybe in these like tighter games. Is that going to continue or do you think that we could see Charbonet seep more and more into this offense, you know, in those higher leverage spots.

00:48:47
Speaker 2: I think, and this is sort of my this has been my stance since they picked him, that it is Walker's backfield, Like you know that obviously saying that doesn't really mean a lot because I think most backfields are going to be right. But you know, we've seen the numbers so far and like last week for example, like this is Walker's backfield. And then Sharponnay is sort of like a change of pace guy that's going to come in. He can catch passes, he can do situational stuff for them, and he's looked really good, like he honestly is Like there was a play last week or the week before where he literally sent a guy off his feet, flying like three like it was like insane, and he's just a maniac and he was doing that preseason too. He's just like lowering his shoulder and knocking guys on their ass. He's like he you know, Pete Carroll loves that stuff. This is an attitude and pe Carrol always talks about like the circle of toughness between defense and running game and special teams. It's like a huge part of pet Carroll's pilosophy is like literally beating up on the other team. Like he's like, this is why he's always been so adamant that you can't you can't not run because he thinks like there's an element of physicality and literally making the team feel you that is like a really important part of football that you can't get that from a passing game. And so this is why he's always like and he always wants a team, he always wants the offense to be able to rely on a run game if the pass game isn't working. That's like he wants to have that ability in case the quarterback gets hurt or in case, you know, it's really windy and rainy or whatever. This is something that you know, he's talked about for years, and so I think the Charbonay pick was less of an indictment on Kenneth Walker being a high variance type runner and more just like philosophically, the Seahawks want to have multiple good running backs because they want to have a good running game. They don't want to go down one guy. They lost several of their running backs in the offseason and so this was a need. They've used i think more first and second round picks on running backs or since Pete Carroll came into the NFL than any other team. This is just what they do. But I think, you know, from a like styles point of view, I think Kenth Walker's ability to hit the home run hit like explosives is definitely also something that they want to do. Like Pete Carroll's a big time believer in creating expulsive plays. If you can get explosive plays from the run game, that's like the ideal because you're not going to it's less risky. It's like you're not going to turn the football over. You know. If you can create explosive plays in the ground game, you know he's done research. This is something that you're talking about when he's at usc Like the amount of times you score when you create an explosive play in any given drive is like exponentially higher, and so they believe in a big time And I think that's what keamth Walker is. He's, like we've seen it this year, like he can create something out of nothing, which is I think that's his big talent. That being said, I think long term we're gonna see I think sharbon Ay work his way into the offense a little bit more. It's not gonna be such a dramatic split where keamth Walker is taking like eighty percent of the reps that we've seen like over the first month of the season. I think it's going to be probably closer to sixty forty as the year goes on. So maybe Sharboney can turn into like a flex guy flex of benefits where if if Walker goes down, he has legue winning potential. But for now, I would say it's decidedly Kemmith Walker's backfield and Sharbone is a good change of pace and a solid player. But to me, and this is what I've been saying since they drafted drafted sharbon A like Walker to me is like a dramatically better player, Like like, I think he's just so much more explosive, so much more elusive and electric with the ball in his hands, and so it's his job to lose more or less, I guess, and I think he has proven why you know, he has the lead job right now.

00:52:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I do think that in also, like games where you feel confident about potential gamescript that might be another place where you can go to sharps as like a flex player or something. Right, but it seems seems to be that's the case, that this is the way this backfield is going to be used. And there's still value in a player like Sharpnay, just like there's value in you know, a Jalen Warren or what have you, even though Jalen Warren's just straight up out scoring Naji Harris right now in PPR.

00:52:49
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. But like you know, you have to not and this goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You have to not.

00:52:55
Speaker 1: Lose sight of what would happen if XYZ occurred from an injury perspective, and football's a violent game and there injuries occur. I mean, we just have to be It's like we're rooting for them, we just have to be realistic about that possibility.

00:53:07
Speaker 2: I mean, Walker got banged up in year one, and towards the end of the season he was he was not. I think he was not himself. He didn't he didn't look as explosive and obviously injuries matter. And I think the key thing with sharbon A, and this is how it ended, is like he's good enough to have league winning potential if Walker get you know what I mean, like exactly. Sometimes you see people are like all in on these handcuffs, and when the lead guy gets hurt, the handcuff comes in. He's just not very good.

00:53:33
Speaker 3: Right, You can't like there's a reason, there's a reason he's.

00:53:36
Speaker 2: And I think sharbon A is good enough, like you said, like if he had land with another team, I could be way more excited about him in like a dynasty point of view, but like he's good enough to like take advantage if if Walker goes down. I think he could be like a top twelve running back.

00:53:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's very few players like you said. And I did a study like probably seven years ago at this point, but it was it was it was a long time ago on handcuffs. And one of the one of the findings that I had wash and that I saw was that uh, when the handcuffs actually got called upon, they usually performed like an RB three R before like they were they weren't even that good. So everyone's like stashing Zameir White and like all of these different like random backup running backs. We have no idea if they're good or not. But when you have someone like Zach Sharbonay who looks very very good when he's gotten the ball and he's in a good offense and such, Yeah, that's that's a clear sign that like, don't drop him if he's not. Like, these are the handcuffs that you do actually want to continue to roster. It's just very difficult to pinpoint, Like there's not many of these Zach Charbone is out there. You know, you can count them on one hand, right, So I agree that that he's someone that that you still have to have rostered on your squad. Yeah, So before I let you go, man, give me one player who's gotten off to a pretty slow start who you could see turning, you know, turning things around and maybe giving Fantasy manager or something big moving forward.

00:54:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was tough because there's a couple of obvious ones like Jamar Chase is a big one.

00:54:59
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm.

00:55:00
Speaker 2: Gonna go with Jalen Wattle. I think obviously he's been sort of an afterthought. It's it's remarkable that the Dolphins scored seventy points when he wasn't even in the lineup, which I think says a lot about scheme and just like overall how this offense is playing. Of course, Denver's defense is horrible, like historically bad. It's it's pretty insane. But I think Wattle, you know, over the year, is going to be a much bigger part of it. I think last year he had over a twenty percent target rate, Like right now it's like at eleven or something like that. He's just not been a huge part of this offense so far, but I think as the season goes on, that's going to change. And of course, this is an offense you want a piece of. You know, he's a high end talent, like top ten talent, tons of speed, like game breaking potential to score like eighty yard touchdowns on any given play, And so I think Jalen Wattle would be sort of like a guy I'm targeting as a by low. I know, he's like got his name is sexy enough that people aren't going to part with him for nothing, but like he's had a very disappointing start to the season, I'd say, And so he's a guy that would circle as like potential to really you know, explode down the stretch. Plus again, this is another guy who if Jalen, if Tyreek kill Will gets hurt, and tyre Kill has gotten hurt at times, he's got like he's like a finely tuned, you know, sports car, Like sometimes things are gonna like go haywire. And I think Wattle could step in and be like the number one for this offense and really have some massive weeks. And so he'd be a guy i'd be targeting.

00:56:20
Speaker 3: That's a great that's a great call.

00:56:22
Speaker 1: The other point that I want to throw out there is doctor Edwin poor Ross from Fantasy Points.

00:56:28
Speaker 3: He actually tweeted last week.

00:56:29
Speaker 1: That we don't think about this, but players coming off concussion usually see a worst production in that game that they come back after that concussion. So that's another reason why, you know, maybe Wattle wasn't as effective this past week and maybe hopefully cross your fingers will be productive this week. Danny, it was awesome to chat with you man, had a lot of fun. Let everyone know where they can find.

00:56:51
Speaker 2: You at the Ringer dot com. Obviously we do weekly fantasy rankings. We've got a whole fantasy football draft guide and in season guide, and then obviously the ring Or Fantasy Football Show, which we record four days a week, four days a week.

00:57:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:57:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, you guys are doing awesome stuff. It's a great show.

00:57:08
Speaker 1: If you want an alternative to like me and my just robotic way of doing things on the Late Round podcast, it's a really good change of pace for you.

00:57:15
Speaker 3: Definitely check that out.

00:57:17
Speaker 1: Make sure you're subscribed to this show, make sure you check out Lateround dot com all that good stuff.

00:57:22
Speaker 3: But otherwise, everyone, thank you for tuning in.