Guns N' Roses 1987-1991: Appetites, Lies and Illusions

<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Surely You Can't
<v Speaker 1>Be Serious Podcasts. Shirley fans, we have a wonderful episode
<v Speaker 1>for you today. We are comparing two massive, iconic hard
<v Speaker 1>rock heavy metal bands, Metallica and Guns n' Roses. We
<v Speaker 1>just finished up with Metallica's Black album, so if you
<v Speaker 1>have not yet heard that, go back and listen to
<v Speaker 1>that episode. And today we're starting our journey into Use
<v Speaker 1>Your Illusion one by Guns n' Roses. This is gonna
<v Speaker 1>be awesome.
<v Speaker 2>I remember when these two albums, these two usual illusion albums,
<v Speaker 2>came out. The anticipation for these two albums was huge.
<v Speaker 1>Before we get going, I just want to point something out.
<v Speaker 1>We have been talking to each other now for couple
<v Speaker 1>of years, face to face, and one of the reasons
<v Speaker 1>that I can do that is because you don't have
<v Speaker 1>nose hair. Have you been talking to people and like
<v Speaker 1>you can't even concentrate on what they're saying because of
<v Speaker 1>their nose hair. Absolutely, they like tuck to you. It dangles, yes,
<v Speaker 1>it wiggles. It's a total distraction. Absolutely, And so let
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<v Speaker 1>And I'm one of those guys who's self conscious about
<v Speaker 1>my nose hair. So somebody that you're gonna see me
<v Speaker 1>and I'm gonna be like yanking them out and wincing
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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. They have also an entire shavekit called the Ultra
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<v Speaker 1>order and free shipping. Whack it perfect. So midnight, like
<v Speaker 1>you know, the record companies or the record stores are
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to release the album before the set date
<v Speaker 1>for the album, so record stores across the country opened
<v Speaker 1>at midnight in order to be able to accommodate all
<v Speaker 1>of the people who are lining up for this album. Now,
<v Speaker 1>at the point that the album comes out, Slash is
<v Speaker 1>completely burned out from having recorded the album. I mean
<v Speaker 1>they finished it up in August, they and they released
<v Speaker 1>it in September. And by the way, let's point that
<v Speaker 1>out right now. Okay, it's thirty years old this week.
<v Speaker 1>It is these these albums are thirty years old this week.
<v Speaker 1>So thirty years ago, Slash is about to go to
<v Speaker 1>Africa to vacation and you get a little rest from
<v Speaker 1>the massive amount of work that he's just done. But
<v Speaker 1>he thinks, okay, before I go, I'm gonna go see
<v Speaker 1>what the album sales are doing, right, you know, So
<v Speaker 1>he shows up at midnight at Tower Records on Sunset
<v Speaker 1>Strip where they used to play yeah, where they got
<v Speaker 1>their start and he watches through a two way mirror
<v Speaker 1>as all of the sales are going on. And just
<v Speaker 1>ten years before that store detectives had been watching him
<v Speaker 1>through the two way mirror because he was stealing stuff
<v Speaker 1>from the same record store that his record was about
<v Speaker 1>to blow out of the water.
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible, it's incredible. So, like you said, these two
<v Speaker 2>albums were both released at midnight September seventeenth, ninety one,
<v Speaker 2>the date that we were releasing. This is September fourteenth
<v Speaker 2>of twenty twenty one.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so almost thirty years on the dot.
<v Speaker 2>And then of course next week we'll talk through User
<v Speaker 2>Illusion two, right, and then compare all three.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, compare all three albums. Use Your Illusion one and
<v Speaker 1>two both released at the exact same time. This was
<v Speaker 1>not a sequel. This was we were releasing two albums
<v Speaker 1>at the same time. Had never been done before. No
<v Speaker 1>one had ever done this. People would release double albums,
<v Speaker 1>but you had to buy you had to buy it
<v Speaker 1>all in one package. Right, Yeah, But people could go
<v Speaker 1>and choose. They could say I want Use Your Illusion one,
<v Speaker 1>or I want Use Your Illusion to or I want both.
<v Speaker 2>Right, And that was a nice little concession by the
<v Speaker 2>band right there.
<v Speaker 1>Well, kind of a concession. As it ended up, it
<v Speaker 1>was a huge sales bump. Well that's true, to a
<v Speaker 1>huge sales bump.
<v Speaker 2>Now use your Illusion two was a betterseller out of
<v Speaker 2>the gate. Yeah, due to a song that we've already
<v Speaker 2>talked about. You could be Mine from the Terminator two sounds.
<v Speaker 1>Throw back to earlier this summer when we were covering
<v Speaker 1>Terminator one versus Terminator two and Arnold Schwarzenegger pulled a
<v Speaker 1>gun out of the roses because the gun was in
<v Speaker 1>the roses.
<v Speaker 2>There's a great story that goes along with Arnold Swarzenegger
<v Speaker 2>and the guys and how he got them to participate
<v Speaker 2>in Terminator. We'll talk about that next week. All right,
<v Speaker 2>Let's say, before we get into too much of this
<v Speaker 2>d I want to go through a basic timeline of
<v Speaker 2>what has happened since the release of Appetite for Destruction, okay,
<v Speaker 2>which was released.
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen eighty seven.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then you got four years until usual Illusion
<v Speaker 2>one and two come out, right, okay, And I just
<v Speaker 2>want to talk through this is by no means exhausted, right,
<v Speaker 2>they were into all kinds of craziness, but let's just
<v Speaker 2>talk about it.
<v Speaker 1>Let's just hit some of the highlight Okay. So, and
<v Speaker 1>just for before that, if you have not yet heard
<v Speaker 1>our episode on Appetite for Destruction, go back and listen
<v Speaker 1>to that one. We've got the history of the band.
<v Speaker 1>We've got track by track on that fantastic album. But yeah,
<v Speaker 1>we're kind of picking up where we left off. You
<v Speaker 1>Appetite for Destruction comes out, they start touring for that album.
<v Speaker 1>They leave the country and nobody's really heard of them
<v Speaker 1>eighty seven not really in the big interest in that album,
<v Speaker 1>they become big in the rest of the world, and
<v Speaker 1>then as they're gone touring the rest of the world,
<v Speaker 1>that's when they hit big in the US and they
<v Speaker 1>come back to the US and suddenly everybody knows who
<v Speaker 1>they are, Like, they can't go shopping at the grocery
<v Speaker 1>store because their pictures are on the cover of Rolling
<v Speaker 1>Stone magazine and people are like, hey, that's you, and
<v Speaker 1>they know who they are in the US. Yeah, it's
<v Speaker 1>pretty amazing.
<v Speaker 2>We did talk a little bit about this during the
<v Speaker 2>apatitp for Destruction that David Geffen had to call MTV
<v Speaker 2>personally and say, please play this video right, Welcome to
<v Speaker 2>the Jungle.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my MTV's concession was, Okay, we'll play it at
<v Speaker 1>four o'clock in the morning. Morning, just it'll be over,
<v Speaker 1>it'll be done. And then everybody started calling in because
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to see the video again, and literally the
<v Speaker 1>phone lines caught on fire because of all the times.
<v Speaker 1>That's right.
<v Speaker 2>So, Appetite for Destruction is released in nineteen eighty seven,
<v Speaker 2>but Welcome to the Jungle didn't really catch fire until
<v Speaker 2>early nineteen eighty eight. Yep, that's when I sort of
<v Speaker 2>became aware of what was going on with them.
<v Speaker 1>Right.
<v Speaker 2>Then the summer of eighty eight, Sweet Child of Mine
<v Speaker 2>blows the roof off, they re release Welcome to the Jungle.
<v Speaker 2>Then after that, Paradise City takes off, and Appetit for
<v Speaker 2>Destruction is one of the biggest selling albums of all time.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so let's pick up right there, greatest greatest
<v Speaker 1>selling debut album if I remember right, I think that's right, Yeah, okay,
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So November of nineteen eighty seven, Axel assaults several security
<v Speaker 2>guards in Atlanta, Right, okay, we're just hitting the highlights,
<v Speaker 2>just the highlights, right, Okay. In nineteen eighty eight, Guns
<v Speaker 2>and Roses was in a movie.
<v Speaker 1>You know this? Yeah, yeah, the the badly lip sync
<v Speaker 1>version of Welcome to the Jungle by the one and
<v Speaker 1>only mister Jim Terry before he had become big.
<v Speaker 2>If you have never seen Clint Eastwood's The Deadpool, it's
<v Speaker 2>a dirty Harry movie.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Jim Carrey is a rock star who dies of a
<v Speaker 2>heroin overdose.
<v Speaker 1>Supposedly, I mean he's murdered, yeah, by Liam Neeson and
<v Speaker 1>a ponytail.
<v Speaker 2>Right, Liam Neeson. You got Qui gon Jin killing Lloyd Christmas.
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty amazing. And Guns n' Roses they are in
<v Speaker 2>the movie.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're the band at the funeral.
<v Speaker 2>They are Slash actually shoots a harpoon in the movie.
<v Speaker 1>It's very weird. Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So that happens in nineteen eighty eight. In August of
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty eight, a riot breaks out during a Duns
<v Speaker 2>and Roses show. Really shocker, right, yeah, okay. In November
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen eighty eight, GNR Lies is released.
<v Speaker 1>Right.
<v Speaker 2>We talked about how before Aptipe for Destruction, they had
<v Speaker 2>this EP called Live Like an f and Suicide.
<v Speaker 1>Right. Okay, So you took.
<v Speaker 2>That ep matched up with four songs that they did
<v Speaker 2>in one day acoustically, Yeah, acoustic set one day in
<v Speaker 2>the studio one day. That album peaked at number two.
<v Speaker 2>That one, by the way, just so we can cover that.
<v Speaker 2>That was literally them all sitting together and playing the
<v Speaker 2>music together. You know, so much of recorded music you
<v Speaker 2>hear is one artist. You know, the guitarist comes in
<v Speaker 2>and puts down his bit, the drummer comes down and
<v Speaker 2>puts it down his bit, and then they put it
<v Speaker 2>all together through the production with lies. It was them
<v Speaker 2>in a room one day.
<v Speaker 1>It is them in a room. That's awesome. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>And so from that album you might be familiar with
<v Speaker 2>the song Patients.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so big hit for them. We covered that one,
<v Speaker 1>yes and uh, and we would go right into m
<v Speaker 1>I Used to Love Kill said you was in a
<v Speaker 1>church and it's completely inappropriate. Also from that album we
<v Speaker 1>have Used to Love Her Yep.
<v Speaker 2>It's a sarcastic song about a guy who kills his
<v Speaker 2>girlfriend because she's driving in crazy Yep.
<v Speaker 1>I can still hear her complain. It's a great one.
<v Speaker 2>It's you have the acoustic remake of You're Crazy from
<v Speaker 2>Appetit for Destruction, and then you have the most controversial
<v Speaker 2>song in their entire career a song called one in
<v Speaker 2>a Million, You Want a Million?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what you want? You want a million?
<v Speaker 3>Babes?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, star.
<v Speaker 2>Man yeah, okay, now that will come into play here
<v Speaker 2>in just a second. We talk about their opening for
<v Speaker 2>the Rolling Stones.
<v Speaker 1>But there's some.
<v Speaker 2>Anti immigrant type of things in there. There's some racist remarks.
<v Speaker 2>There's some homophobic type of things in that song. Yes, okay,
<v Speaker 2>Splash is black. Yeah, he's half black, half black. Interesting, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about that here in a second. So Lies
<v Speaker 2>is released in November of eighty eight.
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>Also in August of nineteen eighty eight, two fans are
<v Speaker 2>crushed to death during the Monsters of Rock show.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we touched on that a little bit on our
<v Speaker 1>Appetite episode that Gnar was initially kind of blamed for it,
<v Speaker 1>for inciting the crowd, but actually what had happened was
<v Speaker 1>that Actual was yelling at people to stop pushing forward.
<v Speaker 1>He was trying to help, and they didn't even know
<v Speaker 1>that those guys had died until after they were told,
<v Speaker 1>after the show was over, and they're, you know, going
<v Speaker 1>to the restaurant.
<v Speaker 2>Together, right right, Okay. In September of eighty nine, we
<v Speaker 2>moved forward a year at the emptyv Music Awards back
<v Speaker 2>when they were a big deal, right, the band that
<v Speaker 2>they used to open for, Motley Crue presented them with
<v Speaker 2>an award, and then Vince Neil promptly punches out is
<v Speaker 2>he stradling backstage?
<v Speaker 1>Okay?
<v Speaker 2>And Izzy apparently had made some derogatory remarks about Vince's
<v Speaker 2>wife and Vince didn't like it, and Izzy basically said
<v Speaker 2>so what and so indicting. Axel gets involved, and then
<v Speaker 2>Vince makes this thing like, let's go Axilly anytime you're
<v Speaker 2>ready me and you get in the ring.
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>Also that same night, Don Henley played drums on their
<v Speaker 2>live version of.
<v Speaker 1>Patients because Steven Athler was in rehab. Because Steven Adler
<v Speaker 1>was in rehab.
<v Speaker 2>Keep that in mind as we move forward.
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So in October of eighty nine, the Rolling Stones, Mick
<v Speaker 2>Jagger reaches out and says, I want you guys to
<v Speaker 2>open for the Rolling Stones.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay.
<v Speaker 2>They also had Contacted Living Color, you know from Culture Personality, Right, Well,
<v Speaker 2>they're in all black band and they opened first and
<v Speaker 2>from the stage they called out Guns N' Roses for
<v Speaker 2>their racist remarks in the song One in a Million. Axel,
<v Speaker 2>who was not at the show at that time. The
<v Speaker 2>management instructed one of the drivers, go freaking find Axel
<v Speaker 2>and don't take no for an answer. You've got to
<v Speaker 2>punch him out to get him in the car, go
<v Speaker 2>punch him out.
<v Speaker 1>So he went over.
<v Speaker 2>They snatch and grab Axel drag him up there. As
<v Speaker 2>he's taken the stage, he realizes that Living Color has
<v Speaker 2>called him out. That makes him really mad. So when
<v Speaker 2>he gets up on stage, he proceeds to say, if
<v Speaker 2>certain members of the band don't quit dancing with mister Brownstone,
<v Speaker 2>this is the last show that you're ever going to
<v Speaker 2>see from Guns N' Roses.
<v Speaker 1>And that was the beginning of the decline, if you will,
<v Speaker 1>Slash knows this was in reference to him that made
<v Speaker 1>him hate Axel. Duff was humiliated and embarrassed. Plus you
<v Speaker 1>had all this controversy going on with Living Color and
<v Speaker 1>one in a Million and all this stuff. So that's
<v Speaker 1>just one night in the Night of Guns and Roses.
<v Speaker 4>Right.
<v Speaker 2>Continuing on in February of ninety, Dizzy rejoins the band. Right,
<v Speaker 2>he's the piano player for the usual illusion at.
<v Speaker 1>Wet Wait a minute, I'm sorry, did you say guns
<v Speaker 1>N' Roses has a piano player. A piano player, what
<v Speaker 1>the heck is up with that? He was about to
<v Speaker 1>be evicted from his apartment.
<v Speaker 2>Called his friend Axels said, I'm about to be evicted
<v Speaker 2>from my apartment. Next is like, hey, no problem, just
<v Speaker 2>come join the band.
<v Speaker 1>You can play piano. If you guys don't have a pianist,
<v Speaker 1>we do now.
<v Speaker 2>In July of ninety Steven Adler is fired.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, he's their original drummer. So somewhere around this time,
<v Speaker 1>Niven is using the fact that they haven't produced an
<v Speaker 1>album in a long time as a negotiation piece for
<v Speaker 1>Gefferent Records to renegotiate their contract so that they can
<v Speaker 1>make more money. They're already spending tons of money. He
<v Speaker 1>wants them to make more money and basically uses the
<v Speaker 1>fact that they have two albums worth of music to say, hey,
<v Speaker 1>we'll give you this when you renegotiate the contract, but
<v Speaker 1>until you do, we're not going to give it to you.
<v Speaker 1>So Alan Niven is the one who gets them a
<v Speaker 1>renegotiated contract, is going to make them a ton more money,
<v Speaker 1>and sets in place this thing for two albums. Well,
<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned, Steven Adler is completely drug riddled at
<v Speaker 1>this time, like the way that it was going for
<v Speaker 1>Slash and Duff. They're like, Steven, you're too messed up.
<v Speaker 1>And it's me and Slash like we're the guys that
<v Speaker 1>everybody else says it's too much, and we're telling you
<v Speaker 1>you got to pull it back at least for the shows. Man,
<v Speaker 1>you got to do something. And so they had this
<v Speaker 1>contract with him where you've got to go to rehab
<v Speaker 1>and you're you know, one more strike and you're out.
<v Speaker 1>And he was out of the band, back in the band,
<v Speaker 1>and then finally they're like, he's still completely addicted to drugs,
<v Speaker 1>hiding them. We've just got to get rid of them.
<v Speaker 1>And so all that Steven Adler knows is that he
<v Speaker 1>gets another stack of papers in front of him, yet
<v Speaker 1>another contract to sign, like he has already. And by
<v Speaker 1>this time they've hired Doug Goldstein and gotten rid of
<v Speaker 1>Alan Niven, and Doug Goldstein says, this contract says, every
<v Speaker 1>time you get high, you have to pay his two
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars. Well that's not what the contract said. What
<v Speaker 1>it said was you're out of the band and all
<v Speaker 1>you get is two thousand dollars. Ooh. And so once
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Adler was less under the influence of drugs and
<v Speaker 1>realized what had happened. He filed a lawsuit against Guns
<v Speaker 1>n' Roses. Do you think, Yeah? I think so that
<v Speaker 1>gets resolved a little bit further down the line, and
<v Speaker 1>he ends up getting paid about two and a half
<v Speaker 1>million dollars plus fifteen percent of royalties for all of
<v Speaker 1>the songs that he was a part of. So a
<v Speaker 1>little bit better of an exit deal, a little better
<v Speaker 1>golden umbrella, but still just I think that you would
<v Speaker 1>go all right, original member of the band, you get
<v Speaker 1>two thousand dollars, see you later.
<v Speaker 2>The royalties for Appetite Destruction alone are worth how much?
<v Speaker 1>I mean? You're right, best selling debut album of all time.
<v Speaker 1>There's no telling.
<v Speaker 2>Steven Adler has had over twenty eight overdoses.
<v Speaker 1>Huh.
<v Speaker 2>He's had several heart attacks, and he has one stroke
<v Speaker 2>that left him with a permanent speech impediment and he
<v Speaker 2>can't even talk write anymore.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, bad kids, just say no, don't do drugs, okay.
<v Speaker 2>In January of ninety one is when the usual Illusion
<v Speaker 2>tour starts. This is nine months ahead of the release
<v Speaker 2>of the album.
<v Speaker 1>Right, A lot of these songs people would hear on
<v Speaker 1>the tour before they ever got on the album, and
<v Speaker 1>then once the album come out, they never played it again.
<v Speaker 1>It's crazy. Yeah, okay.
<v Speaker 2>On July second of nineteen ninety one, Yeah, there is
<v Speaker 2>an infamous concert that Guns Roses played in Saint Louis
<v Speaker 2>where there was a guy who is taking photos of Axel. Yep,
<v Speaker 2>he didn't want him to, right, that was the agreement.
<v Speaker 2>Security was to prevent photos or film, and he kept
<v Speaker 2>trying to tell the security guys to take the camera
<v Speaker 2>away from this guy. Actual believes that he was friends
<v Speaker 2>with the security guys, and in the middle of the
<v Speaker 2>concert he just says.
<v Speaker 1>Who thanks to the lamb ass security, I'm going home.
<v Speaker 1>Well before that, he jumps into the crowd and attacks.
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's right, that's right. So like g and are
<v Speaker 1>have their own security obviously, and then you've got the
<v Speaker 1>security for whatever the venue is. And Axel said, our
<v Speaker 1>security guys had told these guys over and over to
<v Speaker 1>not let these people get so drunk. You're supposed to
<v Speaker 1>have a minimum, but people are chunking these beer bottles
<v Speaker 1>at us and I'm just you know, it's been pushed
<v Speaker 1>and pushed. And then we tell them, Hey, no cameras,
<v Speaker 1>all right, we can't have any cameras here, and lo
<v Speaker 1>and behold, here's a guy right here on the front
<v Speaker 1>road taking my picture over and over again. And I
<v Speaker 1>just said, that's enough. Nobody's going to listen to what
<v Speaker 1>we're telling you. Has to happen. I'll take care of
<v Speaker 1>it myself. And that's how he jumps off the stage,
<v Speaker 1>and that's how he gets arrested a couple of years later,
<v Speaker 1>once they get back from tour of you know, the
<v Speaker 1>rest of the world.
<v Speaker 2>You know, we looked before we started recording. In the
<v Speaker 2>liner notes in usual lusion one, there's a special dedication
<v Speaker 2>thanks under the thanks dear Saint Louis. We love you
<v Speaker 2>guns residens.
<v Speaker 1>That is not what they said. I believe it says
<v Speaker 1>f ugh Saint Louis few Saint Louis right in the
<v Speaker 1>middle of all of it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, these guys are awesome at given the few to people.
<v Speaker 2>The list is long and distinguished.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's some great there's some great thank yous on there.
<v Speaker 1>You got Alice Cooper, you got.
<v Speaker 2>Sebastian Bach, Rachel Bowlin, Shennanhun Yep, yeah, Okay. September seventeenth,
<v Speaker 2>of ninety one, Usual Vision one and.
<v Speaker 1>Two is released.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, November seventh of ninety one, is He Stradling quits
<v Speaker 2>the band.
<v Speaker 1>So by that time Adler was gone, Aler was gone.
<v Speaker 1>They had brought in the former drummer for the Cult,
<v Speaker 1>Matt Sorem. Yep. And with Matt Sorum, I mean Matt
<v Speaker 1>is obviously a gifted drummer, but he's not the same drummer.
<v Speaker 1>It's different and is he said whenever Steven wasn't there,
<v Speaker 1>it didn't have that swing in and out kind of
<v Speaker 1>motion that made appetite great, and he just felt like
<v Speaker 1>it was all wrong. And he also had gotten sober
<v Speaker 1>and nobody else had. And so he loses the drummer
<v Speaker 1>who thinks is a key piece, replaced by a guy
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't care for, who then immediately starts doing drugs
<v Speaker 1>with Duff and Slash and he's newly sober and he's like,
<v Speaker 1>is this really you know what my life is going
<v Speaker 1>to be like? And he says I'm done. At the
<v Speaker 1>height of their fame, the man who is arguably the
<v Speaker 1>originator of the band says, guys, I'm out.
<v Speaker 2>He's like the soul of band. He wrote a lot
<v Speaker 2>of the songs. Yeah, he was missing from the You
<v Speaker 2>Could Be Mind video. He didn't like to do videos,
<v Speaker 2>he didn't like to tour. He just kind of liked
<v Speaker 2>to write songs.
<v Speaker 1>You know. Right, well, forget it, I'm out all right.
<v Speaker 2>Briefly, in October of ninety two, you have the Freddie
<v Speaker 2>Mercury Benefit concert. If he listened closely, you can actually
<v Speaker 2>hear Axel tell protesters to shove it.
<v Speaker 1>They were urged not to have Guns N' Roses play again.
<v Speaker 1>One in a million. The homophobic things that came out.
<v Speaker 2>There a little tough to defend. That why you're honoring Freddie.
<v Speaker 1>Mercury, right, But Brian May, the guitarist for Queen, is
<v Speaker 1>like the fact that they're here is enough and they
<v Speaker 1>still play.
<v Speaker 2>They did just a couple more dates I want to hit.
<v Speaker 2>While we're on the subject. August eighth of nineteen ninety two,
<v Speaker 2>a day that will live in infamy. This is where
<v Speaker 2>we kind of join these two together.
<v Speaker 1>These iconic rock bands with mammoth albums, decide we're going
<v Speaker 1>to tour together.
<v Speaker 2>Metallica and Guns and Roses on the same ticket.
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of money, bro gosh, that's a lot
<v Speaker 1>of money because I'm going to buy that ticket right
<v Speaker 1>of course.
<v Speaker 2>If they're coming anywhere near me, I'm going to see
<v Speaker 2>this concert.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely tragically. It's more likely that you're going to show
<v Speaker 1>up than the Axle is.
<v Speaker 2>It's funny because Metallica knew that Guns and Roses notoriously
<v Speaker 2>late to show up for shows. Yeah, and so rather
<v Speaker 2>than fight over who was the closer, they just said,
<v Speaker 2>we'll open every concert right, We'll get in, we'll get out.
<v Speaker 1>You guys deal with the drama after that. And because
<v Speaker 1>they were such big bands, there was a complete set
<v Speaker 1>change that had to occur in between the sets, and
<v Speaker 1>so Metallica would get done and they would start tearing
<v Speaker 1>down Metallica stuff, they would start putting up Guns and
<v Speaker 1>Roses stuff. And we're talking about a couple of hours
<v Speaker 1>worth at a time where all of these hot and
<v Speaker 1>bothered headbanger fans are just sitting there, standing there, waiting there,
<v Speaker 1>sweating their balls off and just waiting for waiting and
<v Speaker 1>are to start. Yeah, that's not a good recipe. Brop.
<v Speaker 2>So on August the eighth of ninety two, Yeah, Metallica
<v Speaker 2>is playing their set. James Heffeld's on stage YEP. During
<v Speaker 2>the song Fade to Black, which we talked a little
<v Speaker 2>bit about last week. Yep, he gets a little lost,
<v Speaker 2>not sure where he is.
<v Speaker 1>Some new pyrotechnics in the show that they're doing, and
<v Speaker 1>he walks into one that wasn't there in the previous shows.
<v Speaker 1>He's disoriented and that thing sets his flesh on fire.
<v Speaker 2>Second and third degree burns his the hand where he's
<v Speaker 2>actually strumming the guitar gets it the worst yep, and
<v Speaker 2>very very serious condition. He's rushed to the hospital. Lars
<v Speaker 2>has to come on stage and say there was.
<v Speaker 4>An incident with the pyrotechnics. Unfortunately, James is on his
<v Speaker 4>way to the hospital right now and we're worth sorry, Paul,
<v Speaker 4>we can't continue the concert for you guys tonight, right.
<v Speaker 2>And at that moment, that's when Guns n' Roses could
<v Speaker 2>have come in save the day, rock their balls off right,
<v Speaker 2>come in helped out well. They got about forty five
<v Speaker 2>minutes in and Axel decides that his voice doesn't feel
<v Speaker 2>good and it's gone home.
<v Speaker 1>Because they were under the stress and trying to change
<v Speaker 1>things over quickly, and people probably weren't prepared because it
<v Speaker 1>was an hour sooner. They didn't have the monitors set
<v Speaker 1>properly right, So the band couldn't hear themselves. Monitors are key,
<v Speaker 1>couldn't hear themselves, and so they got frustrated. But at
<v Speaker 1>that point, yeah, if if you're that guy, you just
<v Speaker 1>got to go, Okay, guys, fix the problem and we're
<v Speaker 1>going to start singing again. Not I'm tired this, I
<v Speaker 1>quit right. Sorry for all of our guns and roses
<v Speaker 1>fans who want to defend this, but I don't know
<v Speaker 1>how you do. No, no, no, no, there's just no defense.
<v Speaker 1>Jason News said said that shortly after they went back
<v Speaker 1>to backstage and like, what's going on? What do you
<v Speaker 1>get is doing? And Axel said, you know, my voice
<v Speaker 1>is gone. I can't sing. While he's smoking a cigarette
<v Speaker 1>and drinking out of champagne glass.
<v Speaker 2>I'd have another cigarette, but I can't sing. So what
<v Speaker 2>happened after that was the fans got a little upset.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah they did. This is in Montreal, by the way, right.
<v Speaker 1>They turned over cars, they set the place on fire,
<v Speaker 1>multiple fires. Thirteen different people and officers injured in the
<v Speaker 1>onslaught that occurred. It was mass hysteria, dogs and cats
<v Speaker 1>living together.
<v Speaker 2>But more importantly than that, Metallica lost all respect for
<v Speaker 2>guns Roses at that moment. Yeah, Slash said he couldn't
<v Speaker 2>look any of those guys in the eye.
<v Speaker 1>He didn't like them that much to begin with. That
<v Speaker 1>killed it. It was over. So after that, there's there's
<v Speaker 1>a part in the documentary that we talked about last time,
<v Speaker 1>the year and a half in the Life of Metallica
<v Speaker 1>where James Hetfield reads Axel Rose's tour writer where he's
<v Speaker 1>got all of his special requests and is kind of
<v Speaker 1>making fun of him so with a way that Axel
<v Speaker 1>responded was to do it in front of the crowd
<v Speaker 1>at a later concert, called Hetfield a racist for his
<v Speaker 1>decision to pull body Count from the tour and called
<v Speaker 1>him a stupid little and then insult with the rest
<v Speaker 1>of the band as well well.
<v Speaker 2>So coming over for Thanksgiving, so much for making amends
<v Speaker 2>right there?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay.
<v Speaker 2>July seventeenth and ninety three, the usual Allusion tour finally ends.
<v Speaker 1>Yep, sorry, I just heard this. Gilby Clark said that
<v Speaker 1>on the final show of the User Illusion tour, Rose goes, hey,
<v Speaker 1>enjoy your last show. Apparently he didn't just mean of
<v Speaker 1>the tour.
<v Speaker 2>And then sometime in the mid nineties this was kept
<v Speaker 2>under wraps slash overdose. Yeah, died did the Nikky six
<v Speaker 2>dead for eight minutes?
<v Speaker 1>Thing? M hm rose revived And they called the tour
<v Speaker 1>manager and said, hey, one of your band members is
<v Speaker 1>passed out in front of the elevator on you know,
<v Speaker 1>like the fifth floor. And he goes up there and
<v Speaker 1>slashes blue like no heartbeat. He's dead, but he made it.
<v Speaker 1>Shot of adrenaline started his heart. He made it.
<v Speaker 2>And then on May the tenth of ninety four, due
<v Speaker 2>to excessive alcohol, Duff McKagan's pancreas explodes.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you read his book, right, I did it. That
<v Speaker 1>was a huge part of his book, and that that
<v Speaker 1>happened right around the same time that he had seen
<v Speaker 1>Kirk Cobains for the last time. Like that's right. They
<v Speaker 1>flew on the plane together, both Seattle guys, both going home.
<v Speaker 1>Duff is dealing with his demons and thinks, hey, we
<v Speaker 1>actually had a good plane ride together, even though they
<v Speaker 1>had their differences over the course of these things, which
<v Speaker 1>we can talk about it here in a little bit
<v Speaker 1>as well. But he thinks, hey, I need to holler
<v Speaker 1>at him and we need to have lunch so that
<v Speaker 1>I can kind of, yeah, do it, right, you know,
<v Speaker 1>help him out maybe, And then about a week later,
<v Speaker 1>Kirk Cobain's Bodies found listen to this.
<v Speaker 2>If Axel had had his way, Nirvana would have opened
<v Speaker 2>for Metallica and Guns and Roses.
<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine? I can imagine, And it would have
<v Speaker 1>been epic. So we talked about it in the Metallica
<v Speaker 1>episode that the reason that the diehard thrash fans for
<v Speaker 1>Metallica didn't like the Black Album was because it had
<v Speaker 1>mass appeal. And these guys had seen Metallica as a
<v Speaker 1>revolution against the spandex and the glamrock and the hair
<v Speaker 1>and the makeup and all of that. And so when
<v Speaker 1>the Black Album comes out and everybody knows who they
<v Speaker 1>are and everybody says this is the best album, we
<v Speaker 1>can see how that's frustrating to those fans because they
<v Speaker 1>saw them as a revolution. And then the revolution became
<v Speaker 1>the man appetite for destruction. Same thing, man, it's a revolution.
<v Speaker 1>They weren't wearing the spandex. They well act at a
<v Speaker 1>little bit, but it was a revolution, right. These guys
<v Speaker 1>were different than those hair metal guys that were super
<v Speaker 1>popular in eighty seven and eighty eight. And so again
<v Speaker 1>you've got this, Yeah, these guys are us. They represent
<v Speaker 1>an anti establishment thing. But what happened between appetite and
<v Speaker 1>use your illusion? Again? He he had no idea. He
<v Speaker 1>thinks he's still in the revolution group. Whenever Nirvana comes out, right,
<v Speaker 1>he still thinks he's in the revolt. Well, it turns
<v Speaker 1>out he's completely lost his way. There's one concert where
<v Speaker 1>you can hear him talking about how much he likes Nirvana. Right,
<v Speaker 1>this is the voice of revolution and rock and roll
<v Speaker 1>is about that rebellion, and this is and then a
<v Speaker 1>little bit later on, once he's been once Kurt Cobain
<v Speaker 1>has said, screw you, you're just part of the establishment.
<v Speaker 1>He's like really insulting, and he's like, you know, we're
<v Speaker 1>the ones that were the revolution. We're the ones that
<v Speaker 1>did it different than everybody else. And now we've got
<v Speaker 1>thirty million people in front of us, and I'm like, dude,
<v Speaker 1>you can't even hear yourself talk about how your criteria
<v Speaker 1>is how many people are at your concert. And then
<v Speaker 1>he goes on to say, and they're doing drugs while
<v Speaker 1>she's pregnant with that baby, and if it has any
<v Speaker 1>birth defects, then I think they should both be arrested
<v Speaker 1>and go to prison. That's just not afraid to speak
<v Speaker 1>his mind. He is. He needs to read this book
<v Speaker 1>called how to Win Friends and Influence.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, there is so much to talk about.
<v Speaker 1>But we have two albums to go through, I know,
<v Speaker 1>and so we probably got to get into the office.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's get into it. Okay, So just real briefly,
<v Speaker 2>the cover art of Usual Illusion one and two. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>so Usual Illusion one, if you don't remember, is the
<v Speaker 2>yellow and red version of the old painting. They call
<v Speaker 2>it the School of Athens. That's the name of the painting.
<v Speaker 1>It's in the Sistine Chapter. I've seen it, been.
<v Speaker 2>There anyway, they took that old ancient painting, did a version.
<v Speaker 1>Of it Renaissance painting? Yes, yes, the School of Athens. Yes.
<v Speaker 2>And Usual Allusion one is the yellow and red version.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay.
<v Speaker 2>Now, then when Usual Illusion came out, couldn't sell it
<v Speaker 2>in Walmart, couldn't sell it in kmart. You had that
<v Speaker 2>big fat parental advisory sticker on it.
<v Speaker 1>So Walmart didn't sell parental advisory cit.
<v Speaker 2>Not initially, so I think they softened on that. But
<v Speaker 2>five hundred thousand albums of these two are sold in
<v Speaker 2>two hours.
<v Speaker 1>That's it. It went gold in two hours two hours.
<v Speaker 1>Use Your Illusion one sold six hundred and eighty five
<v Speaker 1>thousand US. Your Illusion two ultimately sold seven hundred and
<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand US. Your Illusion one was number two, and
<v Speaker 1>Use Your Illusion To was number one. Yep, okay dee.
<v Speaker 2>So one of the cool new things that we've been
<v Speaker 2>doing is we've been having what we call the Shirley Spotlight.
<v Speaker 2>Our good friend Brad Moore in Monroe, Louisiana, wanted to
<v Speaker 2>weigh in on the Nirvana Pearl Jam episode that we
<v Speaker 2>did a few weeks ago. It's Fall of ninety one,
<v Speaker 2>and he's got something to say about that matchup.
<v Speaker 1>Let's hear from Brad before he gets started. I just
<v Speaker 1>got to say Brad is one of our best fans,
<v Speaker 1>always given us great insight into new things, and excited
<v Speaker 1>to have him give us his opinion on this.
<v Speaker 3>Good morning everyone. This is Brad Moore from Monroe, Louisiana.
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to weigh in on a past episode of
<v Speaker 3>Surely You Can't Be Serious podcast, which pitted the two
<v Speaker 3>super albums of the early nineties, Pearl Jams ten and
<v Speaker 3>Nirvana's never Mind. These two albums were so good and
<v Speaker 3>came along. It's such a good time when I was
<v Speaker 3>really really deep and interested into a lot of different
<v Speaker 3>types of music, and it just opened up a Pandora's
<v Speaker 3>box that I climbed into and never climbed out of.
<v Speaker 3>It opened the door to the bands like Smashing Compan's,
<v Speaker 3>Sound Garden, Alice and Chains, Screaming Trees. I could keep
<v Speaker 3>going forever. I still listened to all these bands to
<v Speaker 3>this day. But back to the matchup between these two albums,
<v Speaker 3>Nirvana's Nevermind was probably the first one I heard.
<v Speaker 1>It was just.
<v Speaker 3>Something so different and it was straightforward. It was in
<v Speaker 3>your face, just straight up hard rock and roll. I
<v Speaker 3>loved it. Got to listen to Pearl Jams ten after
<v Speaker 3>that same thing. It just, you know, just grabbed you
<v Speaker 3>by the hair from the get go and didn't let go.
<v Speaker 3>There was some little bit slower songs in there, very
<v Speaker 3>very deep and had very very good lyrics. In comparing
<v Speaker 3>these two, I'm certainly gonna have to lean towards Pearl
<v Speaker 3>Jams ten. I just always felt like they were just
<v Speaker 3>more personable to me. It was deeper, more meaningful songs.
<v Speaker 3>I liked the musicians, the type of music. Nirvana kind
<v Speaker 3>of reminded me a little bit of punk, of which
<v Speaker 3>I'm not a huge fan of. That being said, I
<v Speaker 3>still love both albums. I'm not taking anything away from Nirvana,
<v Speaker 3>but if I have to pick, I think Pearl jam
<v Speaker 3>ten wins and it's really.
<v Speaker 1>Not even close.
<v Speaker 3>I want to thank you guys for coming up with
<v Speaker 3>content that's just great to listen to every week, and
<v Speaker 3>you guys are just knocking out of the park. I
<v Speaker 3>appreciate you give me the opportunity to weigh in on this.
<v Speaker 3>Keep doing what you're doing, and if any of you
<v Speaker 3>are listening to surely you can't be serious podcasts for
<v Speaker 3>the first time.
<v Speaker 1>Spread the word.
<v Speaker 3>This is a great thing to listen to. Guys. Keep
<v Speaker 3>it up.
<v Speaker 2>You have a great day, all right, d Well, he
<v Speaker 2>agrees with both of us, apparently, Yeah, and thank you
<v Speaker 2>very much.
<v Speaker 1>Appreciate that. It's always nice to have the compliment. And
<v Speaker 1>we really appreciate you listening to Brad. It's hard are
<v Speaker 1>you against Pearl jam ten Man? It is such a
<v Speaker 1>good album. But those two came out almost exactly at
<v Speaker 1>the same time as these two that we're comparing. For
<v Speaker 1>these three that we're comparing, right now Metallica and Guns
<v Speaker 1>N' Roses. So interesting that so many great albums coming
<v Speaker 1>out is exactly at the same time, I.
<v Speaker 2>Think it's cool that, you know, for Brad anyway, that
<v Speaker 2>Nirvana and Pearl Jim led him down the road to
<v Speaker 2>discover other bands, you know, Spashing Pumpkins and Screaming Trees
<v Speaker 2>and some of these other bands that he probably would
<v Speaker 2>have never found if it hadn't been for those two albums.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, same thing for me. Same thing for me.
<v Speaker 1>I had a bunch of Allison Chain's albums that I
<v Speaker 1>probably never would have had had it not been for
<v Speaker 1>Nirvana and Pearl Jam.
<v Speaker 2>If you would like to be a part of the
<v Speaker 2>Shurly Spotlight, just send us an email Surelely Podcast at
<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com.
<v Speaker 1>We want to hear what you have to think.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just weigh in on anything that you've heard the
<v Speaker 2>past or anything that you know we've got coming up.
<v Speaker 2>Send us an audio clip less than three minutes, and
<v Speaker 2>if it's really good, we'll put you on the show.
<v Speaker 1>All right, were ready to go? Track by track? Let's
<v Speaker 1>do it.
<v Speaker 2>Let's do track by track?
<v Speaker 1>Wait, sorry, next week, next week?
<v Speaker 4>Do there?
<v Speaker 2>Everyone speaking up with the bags