BONUS EPISODE: Kati Morton: Exploring Mental Health from Therapy to YouTube

Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide?
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Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the
world one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.
Joining us today is Katie Morton, LMFT, a licensed marriage
and Family therapist with a master's in clinical psychology from
Pepperdine University. For the past seven years, Katie has turned
social media into a lifeline, breaking down mental health with
clarity and compassion. Her YouTube channel, now with three hundred
and forty thousand strong and thirty million views, Deep has
become a trusted space where eating disorders, self harm, in
every shade of struggle are met with honesty, not judgment.
You've seen her on HLN's Doctor Drew on Call, named
a twenty sixteen Shorty Award finalist and recognized as a
streaming nominee. But Katie's real mission building a global community
that demands better care and dismantle a shame that keeps
people silent. She's here to talk about that and her
new book, Why Do I Keep Doing This? She has
that and more so before we dive into our episode,
we'll be back with an uninterrupted show write afterat word
from my sponsors. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, of course, thanks for having me.
Oh, it's my pleasure. I understand you've written a book.
Can you give us a little information and the inspiration
for it.
This book came about in a very different way from
my others. It actually was inspired from the fact that
my specialty as a therapist is eating disorder treatment. That's
how my channel, my YouTube channel started, and I've wanted
to write an eating disorder book.
That's not what this is.
I'll get to that, but it started with this idea
that like, oh, I really want to write and the
book was tentatively going to be called It's not about
the effing food. That's really what I wanted the book
to be titled, because people just misunderstand eating disorders.
And in conversation with.
My literary agent Jail, who I love, and my manager Lenia,
I was telling them about this and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and we've gotten this conversation about like, oh my god,
I do that too, and like trying to control people
and like what happens and yeah, And it was all
just this great conversation about the things that we do
that we get in annoyed with ourselves for doing.
Why do I compare? Why do I people please?
And then there was a pause and my agent, Jail
was like, I think that's the book. I don't think
it's about eating disorders. We can talk about them, but
I think it's more about control. She's like, what we're
talking about is control, and I was like, you're right,
and she's like, think on it. Get me some ideas,
and why do I keep doing this?
Was born?
Wow, that is such a great story. Now for everyone
that's listening, can you tell us a little bit more
about the book itself? What's the heart of the story,
the main theme you are exploring and the spark that
made you sit down and say, oh, this story needs
to be told.
Yes, this book is probably my most personal book. You're
following me along as I talk about the patterns that
we find in our life. So I start off talking
about how our childhood kind of sets the tone, like
the way that our parents interact with us and each
other teaches us what relationships look.
Like, what love looks like.
And I talk about the ways that I try to
control things in my life like we all do. And
so I dig into things like people please, how I
try to control others, make them happy so that I
don't have to deal with the discomfort of an argument.
I don't like those, don't like conflict, very conflict, diverse
over here.
Yeah, I get that.
And then I get into perfectionism. How I thought that
if I did everything just right, then I could earn
love or attention or support, like that it had to
be perfect in order for me to get it. Then
I take you through my experience with like feeling like
I'm I don't have a right to take up space
that I have to like shrink myself to make other
people comfortable, and essentially the bread that weaves through the
book is that it's all about my relationship with control
and all the kind of whack a mole ways that
it pops up.
And unlike my other books.
Where it's much more prescriptive, where I'm like, here's the research,
here's what we know, here's what we can do, this
one is more like, Hey, this is what I've learned.
I've been in therapy. I am a therapist, but I've
also been in therapy for a long time. Here's what
I've learned in that time. And here's what I still
don't know. Let's consider these things and see what we learn.
And so it's less of a like let me show
you and more like come along with me journey.
Where you're a therapist and been doing this for a while.
Do you work with autistic people, of those with serious
mental illness, those with anxiety, ADHD, bipolar? Do you work
with any that fit under that umbrella in the book itself,
either or what you've written in the book or what
you do as a therapist.
Yes, both bookcases, I think because nothing happens in a vacuum.
Even though I specialized in the treatment of eating disorders,
almost all of my patients who have an eating disorder,
have something else going on, whether it's anxiety, depression, have
traumatic upbringing, or a trauma in their background at some point. Yeah,
even my YouTube channels started off just specifically about eating disorders,
and then of course it branched into everything from you know,
bipolar disorder OCD, anxiety depression, postpartum depression, schizophrenia, you name it.
Yeah, that's a wide range for sure. Now, how long
have you been doing this.
I've been a therapist since two thousand and nine. Okay,
I've been creating content online since twenty eleven.
Look back at the therapy that you have done, looking
at all the content you created on your YouTube and
all of your social media, I want you to think
back a little. What comes to mind of the most
rewarding moment that you've encountered over the years from those
experiences where you've helped people from their traumas and how
they've overcome it.
Oh, there's been quite a few. The one that sticks
out to me the most was actually a letter I received.
So I've always kept a peel box for people online
to send me things, and I received a letter. This
is I don't know, probably almost ten years ago now, maybe,
but It was from a mother might make me get
teary just talking about it, thanking me for saving her
son's life because he was suicidal and he found I
have a couple of older videos and newer now, but.
This is the time.
It was an original video at the time about like
I think it's called suicide and honest discussion, and it's
essentially like that. You know, we think things are hopeless
and we feel helpless, but there's a lot that we
can do and don't let the depression fall in the darkness,
like snuff out your light, you know, and go that letter.
I mean, I keep all the stuff. I'm not really
a hoarder, but I am for sentimental stuff.
Right, Yeah, that was probably the most like touching and
most rewarding thing.
Well, you know, when you do something that helps someone
and you can see a direct reflection of your help
and how it changed them, it can and probably changes
your life too. How did you see that change you
in how you was doing moving forward?
I think it just further illustrated the the privilege of
being i mean a therapist but also a content creator.
The ability to reach people sure never ceases to amaze me,
probably because I was born before the Internet. Like, I
didn't grow up with internet or social media, and I
got to watch it develop and it's such a privilege
to be able to create content, share an idea, or
share a thought, or share some of my education with
somebody and affect them through the screen, you know. I
mean the way I was trained in school is obviously
because there was no social media. It was very focused
on the one on one and like your in session
and you're in your office, and it's just wild to
me that I can reach people, Like some of my
first community members were people in the UK and Germany,
not even in the US and in California at the time,
where I was Yeah, it's yeah, I think it just is.
Really it keeps me motivated.
Obviously.
The reason I started the channel was just to help
people that if someone was looking for something, they could
find it. Back in twenty eleven, being on YouTube wasn't
a business decision.
You couldn't make money. That wasn't what it was about.
Sure, it was like just a hobby, passion project, and
so yeah, I mean, it definitely keeps me motivated in
tough times and when I'm tired or when I'm wondering
if it's really worth it all.
I can reflect back.
On letters and comments and things like that and remember
that having the privilege of being able to positively impact
someone's life is just amazing.
When you first started out, was you like everyone else,
conventional office, full walls, phone on the desk, and everyone
coming to see you there?
Yes, I mean it worked many jobs. Like most therapists will.
This will resonate with them that you work like three
different jobs to earn your hours towards your licensure.
Sure, and so.
I worked in the hospital mainly helping people schizophrenisk is
a effective disorder, bipolar disorder very much more like high needs.
I would say.
Then I worked an eatings or a treatment center two
nights a week, and then I had my private practice
two days a week.
What were some of the differences that you saw from
your private practice and then the other two jobs you
were working. Was there anything that just jumped out to you?
The level of.
Care needed is definitely the obvious one. For the eating
disorder treatment center, we're seeing people who need twenty four
to seven support. They would stay at the facility, Okay,
And I think you know it was it was nice
to work with a team I always love that part
because then it's.
Not all on me, like we're all.
Around and we're sharing an information making sure that the
patient is getting the support they need. I always love
that the hospital setting was very unique because it was
a different it's a different type of patient. I feel
like there's a lot of people within this world that
tho those of us who don't live in the mental
health space may never see or notice people with really
debilitating mental illness, and getting to see them get stabilized
on medication and thrive. I still love that's so exciting
for me. And so that treatment was just a little
bit different, was more about stabilization and getting resources and
then private practices. Not to say I enjoy it most.
They all have their perks, but that's where I could
really I call it roll in the deep with people.
I could really challenge them, I could really ask them
intense questions, and we could really push for better, for
more because we weren't so focused on the safety factor,
like you're operating well enough or able to hold a job,
able to go to school or whatever it is, and
so we could really you know, push the boundaries of
how we can grow and what we can challenge ourselves
to do.
Okay, so you had all these things going on, When
did you see the transition from everything you were doing
to the social media world that you ultimately turned to.
It was really slow. I'd like to say I had
a viral hit. Sure it was out of this world.
That's not how it worked. I started in twenty eleven.
I don't think I quit my full time job till
I don't know twenty fourteen, okay, and I still had
my private practice, and I still worked part time at
the eating Disearch treatment center, so I was still doing
partial things. I just quit the hospital job, which had
my health insurance, much to my mother's de way, but
I let that job go because I just couldn't keep
up with the hours. And then I slowly just whittled
down the other two. I left, you know, a few
months later, left the other Honestly, at the very end,
this is just my personality, is that I had decided
I was done with it, that I was moving into
social doing more social media because I really like speaking.
I really liked meeting people.
Like I said, it's so cool to talk to so
many people around the world like I never in my
wildest dreams with thought that that could be a possibility.
I had decided it was in March that I was
going to quit my job, not my private practice because
that takes time, but quit the last bit of my job.
And I told my husband, I think I'm going to
quit in June. And I lasted one more week and
I put in my two weeks notice and off we went.
And so it was kind of slow and study, but
I really wish I'd saved more before I did that,
but it was time, and I felt it was time,
and it got really hard to keep everything going.
When you're dealing with people one on one, face to face,
then you're dealing with people one on one in a
group situation like you do in a hospital. What differences
do you see dealing with people one on one on
YouTube or those that might email you or zoom? What
difference does you see, if any, from all those different scenarios.
I think there's a.
Big difference, especially when it comes to in person one
on one. Okay, there's something special about in person with somebody,
the energy of the room, especially as a therapist, that
really helps me pick up on things that maybe you
might be able to hide. If we were doing a
zoom session. Yeah, like, are you sitting on the edge
of your seat? Are your feet fidgeting? I might notice
the shake a little in your head. So there's that piece.
I've always liked the in person when it comes to therapy. Now,
moving into social media and you know, communicating with my
community as a whole, it's very different. I almost see
myself as like an adjunct, like I'm just this add on.
Like a lot of my community members, especially on Patreon,
which I use to help support myself, is they kind
of asked me questions about their own therapy. They're like, hey,
I saw my therapist and they said this, what does
that mean? Or like, hey, I'm having this trouble, what
could I ask? Or like how could I move this forward?
And so I kind of see myself as just like
a little a piece of it, like a more of
a supportive role than maybe a primary role.
Yeah, with all the information that you have taken in,
then add to that all the information that you have
given out. What are some of the common things you
tend to give out a lot, like tips on life.
What are some of those that you wish everyone knew?
The number one tip is, well, there's two I'll give
you two and I can give more.
But there's two that come to mind.
Right away, okay, And the first is when in doubt,
over communicate. I don't mean over explain yourself. I mean
that if you're concerned about a relationship, you're concerned about
how your boss interpreted something, I would always err on
the side of sharing more and being honest.
Communicate.
If someone hurt your feelings, tell them, don't make them guess.
If something didn't go as planned, you know, let someone know, like, oh,
I thought we were doing this. So often, instead of
communicating about an upset or an expectation or anything, we
stay silent and ends up hurting us down the line.
It can either turn into resentment or it can turn
into like internalized shame, like something must be wrong with me,
that's why this didn't work out, when in fact, if
we'd communicated, we might have realized, oh, they didn't even notice,
and they're so sorry, and you know, the conflict could
have been resolved.
So when in doubt, over communicate.
And then the second, anybody who's been following me for
any amount of time will know I am a.
Huge supporter of journaling.
I think so often we let things run in our head,
and we can turn molehills into mountains. We can shame ourselves,
We can think about all the way something could go wrong,
and it can keep us up at night. It can
make us feel anxious, depressed, you name it, putting it
out on paper, journaling about it gives us an opportunity
not only to slow it down, but also to be
able to reflect. I find because I journal all the time.
When I journal, I can see things more clearly. I'll
even pose questions to myself, which might make me sound
a little crazy, but I promise you it helps. Because
one thing I know as a therapist is that we
have all the information we need to fix any of
our problems. We just need help getting to those that
to the meat. We need help finding those gems, and
so journaling really helps with that because sometimes I'll be like,
what am I really afraid of here? Or why is
this making me so stressed? Oh, I'm afraid that someone's
not going to like me, or I'm afraid that you know,
maybe it's like about money and I'm scared of not
having enough, and that's really stressful for me. It helps
me uncover kind of the reasons behind my behavior. And
if I just let it live in my head and
I didn't write it down, I might not be able
to uncover that. I'd instead get caught in these thought cycles,
you know, because there's this research study from years ago
that ninety two three percent of the thoughts that you've had,
we've had before. So it's like we're just having these
repeat thoughts over and over. Sometimes it's just a little
flavor different flavor to them, and so journally really helps
me clean that up. Yeah.
Now, when you do a journal, you write down all
your thoughts. Like you said, it might come to you
as a question, or you might have other thoughts as well.
I believe there is a difference in most people, not all.
I think there's a difference between what people will write
down on a paper that they want to tell someone,
then in reality they don't tell them at all. How
do you help them get past that so that the
communication still stays strong.
A good question, and in general, there's a couple of
ways to go about this. Number One, if you're in therapy,
practice it with your therapist. The first time you say
something that's difficult should not be in front of the
person you're trying to communicate it with okay, because sometimes
the words coming out of our mouth just like shock us,
or they feel really harsh all of a sudden, or
we're like, oh my god, is that what I meant?
It can feel very overwel So it's helpful to say
it out loud to another person, ideally a therapist, but
even a best friend or at least in your car
by yourself. You should say it out loud so you
kind of get used to the language. And because if
we're having a difficult time with someone, chances are we
know them at least somewhat, but usually pretty well, we
know kind of what they're going to say in response.
So I always encourage people like, yes, you can journal
about it. If this is a conversation that needs to
be had, I encourage you to journal both parts. What
do you think they'll say in response? How does that
feel to you? Are you able to like stay with
it or do you need to take a break? You know?
And so through that practice, hopefully we can get so
comfortable with it. It's almost like practicing a speech. You
could say it in your sleep. You've said it so
many times. I want you to almost feel that way.
Before you go into what I would call a really
emotionally charged conversation when things when we're like, I'm conflicted verse, right,
I told you I don't really like fights, and so
if I'm going to tell my husband that something really
hurt my feelings or I didn't really like how something went.
I know that that For other people who aren't conflict averse,
they're like, that's no big deal. No, I have to
practice that with myself. I have to be like, it's okay,
I can say this. How would I say it?
Okay? What do you think he'd say back?
Okay? If he gets upset about it? How do we
manage that? How do we handle that? I know this
sounds tedious, but it's worth practicing if we want to
break out of those patterns. And that's kind of what
my book Why Do I Keep Doing This? Is about,
is like breaking out of these patterns that we know
we do these things over and over, but and we
almost can't feel like we can't stop.
We can.
We just have to figure out, you know, how to
hang in there, do the hard work.
Now you said you started your practice around two thousand
and nine. Okay, now we're looking at sixteen years. So
from when you first started to now, you have seen
people evolve tremendously and hopefully for the better. How have
you seen yourself evolve from when you first started to today?
Oh? Good question. I mean so many ways.
I like to think that, you know, every so often
we like shed skins of our past self on all
so much that if, like I passed the man on
the street, they wouldn't even know me anymore. You know,
I'm so different, I think as a therapist in particular,
and much more confident. I mean that's obvious doing anything.
You know, at the beginning, you're super nervous, and I
used to think and rethink things that I would say
and how I'd ask questions. But I'm much more confident
and much more comfortable with silence, much to my patient's dismay.
Let them sit in that.
And I also think that as I've continued to do
work on myself, I've realized better ways to use that.
This is going to sound kind of woo woo, but
it's like using the energy of the room to help
people uncover parts of themselves that they've been trying to ignore.
I've gotten better at asking questions to get in also sure.
I talk about how people are almost like a locked house,
and some people open the door and let you right
in here you are, and other people you have to
like find that little window in the back and that
you know that doesn't quite lock all the way and
jimmy it open and get in that way. And so
I've gotten much better at getting people to open up, okay.
And I would say also because I've been online this
is a random perk of having to create content for
as long as I have, I definitely feel like my
knowledge and understanding not only of the research because I
have to do that all the time, which is a
clinician you don't always have to, but also talking to
my community has given me a greater understanding of what
is really going on with people, what's really the problem.
I think a lot of times people come into therapy
and they're just feeling bad and they don't even know
where to start. And I feel much more equipped to
figure that out with them at a faster pace.
So again, sixteen years dealing with people two thousand and
nine to today, if you had a chance, with everything
that you know now to tell your younger self just
starting out, what is it that you would tell her.
I think I would tell myself, don't be so hard,
you're just starting out. I'm always really hard on myself.
I'd also tell myself to know that it's okay to
say you don't know. I think for a long time
I felt as a therapist it was like important for
me to be like, oh, I have all the answers.
We're human, we can't have all the answers. And I
don't know if I necessarily pretended to know, but I
think I felt bad if I didn't. I think I
would tell my younger self to embrace that and make
it a place for growth versus shame.
And then I think I.
Would also I would tell her to try different types
of therapy personally earlier on, because I did talk therapy
for a long time and it was helpful, but it
wasn't until I did EMDR and I tried parts work
that I found it. I made some huge strides personally,
especially with grief because I lost a lot of my
family in a short period of time.
So I guess those are some of the things.
I'm sure there's others that will come up later, Like
at two o'clock in the morning, I'm like, oh, I
should have told Tony this, but yeah, those are just
a few.
Okay, that's great. Now tell us about your book again,
where can they find it? And I believe you're going
on a book tour?
I am. Yeah.
My book, Why Do I Keep Doing This? Unlearn The
Habits Keeping You Stuck and Unhappy? Comes out December ninth.
I'm doing a short book tour in December. More coming
in January. I will be in Santa Monica on December
ninth that I'm going over to Jacksonville, Florida on December fourteenth,
and then I'll be up in Chicago on December fifteenth.
I'd love to see everybody sign books, answer questions. The
book itself is just really personal. I hope it helps
one person know that they're not alone in doing weird
things over and over and getting the same result and
not understanding why we've all been there before. That's why
it's called Why Do I Keep Doing This? Right? And
they can find me anywhere on the internet. Just Katie Morton,
kat I m O R. Two and I have a
podcast Ask Katie Anything that comes out every Thursday, and
my YouTube videos come out every Monday.
Now, remember you have to come to Nashville.
I know I do. I'd love to expand the book tour.
We'll see how many cities we can hit.
Yeah, that's good. Do you ever find yourself doing self
analyzing to the point where you're going, WHOA, what am
I doing here?
Definitely, I'm trying to break out of that habit. But
I'm glad you asked because I definitely am an intellectualizer.
That's my defense mechanism of choice. I like to understand
something from every angle. And I saw this post online
where somebody was saying their therapist had told them that
overthinkers are under feelers, and I felt very called out,
but it is true. I definitely will try to understand myself,
and it's not helpful. I think that's why a lot
of people will say, well, you're a therapist, like why
are you in therapy? And I'm like, because I can't
therapize myself. You know, I can't do that. That's not
that doesn't work that way. I can't challenge myself. I'll
let myself off the hook. And so yeah, I definitely
analyze things, although I'm trying to break that habit.
What do you think that the listeners need to hear
that it is really important about what you're doing. You
may have touched on it already, but what do you
think is important that they know about you?
About me? I was gonna try to offer another tip or.
Tool you can you can do that too. We're flexible here.
No, it's okay, I mean about me. I guess the
thing that I would hope people could hear or could
know more about me is that I yes, I'm a therapist,
but I don't know everything, and I'm not perfect.
I mess up too.
I always try to make sure that my con to
online reflects the fact that we're all human. This is
all of our first rodeos. We're just trying our best,
right absolutely, and I like to especially more recently, I've
tried to shift my content more into the like, let's
go along this journey together. Let me share what I know,
you share what you know, and together will work for
a better tomorrow. And so that's kind of the goal
and what I would hope people could get through following
me online or reading my book, or you know, engaging
with any of the content I create, because I think
unfortunately a lot of people try to act like they
know it all.
Nobody knows it all. We're just doing the best we can.
Yeah, that's right. Now. Is there anything else that you
would like to tell our listeners.
I don't think so.
I think I always just want people to know that
therapy is beneficial for all. You don't have to wait
until you're at your worst. I think getting extra support
is always a good choice and it's a great investment
to make in yourself. And also know that every therapist
works on a sliding scale, so ask for it if
finances are an issue, because I know it can be expensive.
Yeah. I think that's it.
Well, this has been great, great information, great conversation. I
really appreciate you taking the time to join us today.
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been
a pleasure.
Oh it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. Thanks for taking
time out of your busy schedule to listen to our
show today. We hope you enjoyed it as much as
we enjoyed bringing it to you. If you know someone
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