268 | When You and the Child Don't Speak the Same Language in CCPT

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi,

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I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks,

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The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode,

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we are talking through

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all things communication in the playroom.

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So,

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I have another question from you Yehudis,

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New York,

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and

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This question is specifically

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kind of

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I guess processing two conflicting notions that we've discussed.

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So in the past we've talked through,

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we know that CCPT works even when the child

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and the therapist don't speak the same language.

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Yet then I've also said that we can't do our job and not talk.

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So

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I know those don't seem to coexist appropriately.

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So I'm gonna read parts of the email and then we'll dive into this together.

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I'm excited.

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This is actually I think going to be a really helpful episode.

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OK,

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so the email says,

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I've heard you say more than once the CCPT has been found

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effective even when the therapist and child don't speak the same language.

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I've also heard you say multiple times that we can't do our job and not talk.

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How can both of those ideas be true at the same time?

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Do we or don't we need to be able to communicate verbally with children in CCPT?

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I don't know if this is something universal

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enough that you should address on the podcast,

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but I'm working with a child who is deaf and communicates in American Sign Language.

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I took ASL 1 and 2 in college,

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so I know the basic sign language,

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and that's how we've been doing our play sessions for the last year or so.

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As she gets older and her play becomes more sophisticated,

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I've been feeling like my American Sign Language is falling short.

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I'm trying to advocate to her school district

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to pay for an interpreter for our sessions.

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They wonder why it should be necessary if we do play therapy.

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Oh my gosh,

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Lord help me.

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She's entitled to an interpreter and I will advocate for it if needed,

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but I'm getting a little lost in my mind about whether I really need the interpreter.

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And to be able to quote,

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speak fluently or if CCPT can be done when the

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child and the therapist aren't fluent in each other's language.

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I've been feeling a little lost in our sessions lately and

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chalking it up to the lack of language on my part,

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but maybe I need to be considering other factors.

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OK,

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so I'm really,

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really looking forward to this.

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I think this is gonna be a really meaningful discussion.

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So let's start with the first part of the email,

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which says how can both of these ideas be true at the same time?

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do we or don't we need to be able to communicate verbally with children in CCPT?

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Both and.

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So,

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here's what I mean by that.

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I promise it's not as mutually exclusive as it sounds.

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We know

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that.

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The child and the therapist do not need to speak the same language,

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unpublished study out of UNT so we're,

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we're

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desperately waiting for that to finally come out into accessible research,

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but

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I have it on good authority that it's,

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it's being finalized.

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So we know that

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it's not about the words that are said

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for CCPT to work.

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So hold that thought as truth.

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Now,

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let's switch to the next one.

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But

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you've also said that we can't do our job and not talk.

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OK.

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Our therapeutic dialogue,

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our use of the reflective responses,

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our use of the four pillars,

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the way that we interact verbally with children.

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is an integral piece

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of the therapeutic

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approach.

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So that,

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let that settle as truth as well.

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Now,

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how do they coexist?

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Beautifully.

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Because the reason why we don't have to speak the same language

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is because CCPT works because the most important piece of CCPT is what?

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Thank you for yelling at me.

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The relationship,

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yes.

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OK,

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so

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we know

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that if relationship is established,

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that is the catalyst for change,

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that is the impetus for self-actualization.

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Let's go back to Rogers.

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We have core conditions

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because the relationship

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is the mechanism

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for a child for a client

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growing.

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Same thing in the playroom

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if the relationship is there.

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The communication

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In language,

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in what is spoken.

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Does not override

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the catalyst,

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which is the relationship.

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The child will naturally self-actualize,

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the child will naturally become a better version of themselves

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because it's predicated on the relationship.

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So,

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that is the first piece of this.

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Yet,

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what we say matters.

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Because if a child is building an emotional vocabulary,

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and we don't reflect a child's feelings,

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They'll get part of the way there.

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But if we reflect a child's feelings often

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in the playroom,

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they have a more robust emotional IQ at the end of it.

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They will naturally build their self-esteem

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in the playroom,

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but if we don't use encouragement and esteem building responses,

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they're not going to get to the level that they could have.

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And really fully trust and accept themselves.

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They will naturally learn to self regulate in the playroom,

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but if we don't provide them with limits when they're necessary.

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They

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will not have the full experience of practicing complying with limits,

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and working on self-regulation and self-control.

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If

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we are trying to communicate the be with attitudes.

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A really effective way to do that is reflectively responding.

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So if we don't track behavior and we

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don't reflect content and we don't reflect feelings,

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is the child still going to self-actualize?

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Yes,

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because the relationship is there,

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but think about how much more rich it would be and how much more powerful it would be.

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If

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we are engaging verbally

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to kind of help that along.

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So I'm hopeful that you all are seeing how

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these weave together because they do actually coexist.

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They're not mutually exclusive,

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and it's a both and scenario.

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So,

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yes,

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the child and the therapist do not have to speak the

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same language for this to be effective because of the relationship,

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and

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when we interact in therapeutically valuable ways conversationally.

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The child is better for it.

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So that's kind of how those are in the same pot,

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if you will.

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So let's move on to the child who's

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deaf and communicates with American Sign Language.

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OK,

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the fact that you are

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conversationally fluent is how I would probably discuss that if you took

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1 and 2

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and you know basic sign language,

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then I would say you're probably conversationally fluent.

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That's how I speak about my Spanish speaking.

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I do not,

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I do not know every word

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and I do not speak it as if I'm a native,

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but I'm conversationally fluent,

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so there's probably a similarity there.

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So you had,

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what I'm thinking here is,

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as you communicate.

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It's really more about the relationship.

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Number one,

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so the pressure is off a little bit.

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Because

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if she feels unconditionally accepted,

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unconditionally loved,

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and the relationship and the environment

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are rich with opportunities to self-actualize,

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she will.

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We know that

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the communication is not as important as the relationship.

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Now,

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I agree with you that as she gets older and her play becomes more sophisticated,

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you may not feel as equipped to communicate in sign language.

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That's going to be a judgment call that you need to make

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kind of trust your gut and go with your clinical impression there.

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However,

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I would argue that my concern is bringing in an interpreter.

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That could actually change the dynamic in sessions

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because the interpreter.

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Isn't necessarily someone with whom she has a relationship,

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number one,

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so there might be a warm up and an initiation and a trust and a rapport

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and bond building that's going to take a while and kind of set things back.

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And

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is the child going to feel comfortable

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dealing with some of the

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deeper stuff

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in front of an interpreter when it's clear

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that the interpreter is the communication channel,

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not the therapeutic channel?

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I don't know that I'm just throwing out thoughts here.

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I,

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I'm not trying to sway one way or the other.

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But anytime someone has said,

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what do you think about and then the outcome

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involves someone else coming in the room.

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I'm always hesitant and concerned about that

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because we have to be really clear

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on the relationship and it's a 1 to 1 connection.

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You introduce a third person into the room,

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the dynamic has changed now.

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So just a thought there.

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I'm not saying she doesn't deserve or need an

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interpreter that might be a really helpful approach.

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Just be mindful of the therapeutic considerations of that.

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But you said,

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I'm concerned that maybe I'm not speaking fluently.

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And I've been feeling a little bit lost and chalking it up to the lack of language.

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I don't know that you need to be as concerned about that.

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Focus on the relationship.

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Kids are very gracious.

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I've conducted play sessions in Spanish

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and

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I have not known a word.

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You know how you when you learn a language,

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you are exposed to words that make sense for for learning,

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but why would you need to know some of those words?

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So let me tell you a really quick story.

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So

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I was the quote Spanish speaker at the pregnancy

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center where I did my practicum and internship.

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So all Spanish speaking clients that came in,

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if I was on schedule that day.

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They

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had sessions in Spanish with me.

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Well,

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when you live in Honduras and you learn conversational Spanish,

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when you take 7 years in school,

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you learn book Spanish.

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I never learned

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all things related to medical

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because why would I need to?

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I had no idea how to say pregnancy test.

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I had no idea how to say urine analysis.

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I had no idea how to say crib.

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There were all of these words that

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I had never been exposed to because it didn't make

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sense conversational conversationally for me to have learned them.

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Similarly,

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you,

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you know,

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are only exposed to words that your teacher is going to teach

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you or you're going to read in a book or whatever.

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So

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when I've done sessions in Spanish,

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I specifically remember one session.

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My,

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my kid,

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probably 5 year old,

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grabbed a lizard,

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and I know that I'd heard the word lizard,

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but I could not think of it no matter how much I racked my brain.

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And

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so I'm like,

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I could just say you picked that up,

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but I literally do not know how to say that word.

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And so at the end of the session

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I said in Spanish to him,

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How do you say that word?

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And he goes,

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Lagartija.

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And I'm like,

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oh my gosh,

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yeah.

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But here's why I'm bringing that up,

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because

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if you don't know

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how to sign something,

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you,

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if you don't know a word or how to communicate it,

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either find a workaround.

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In other words,

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when I don't know a word.

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True story.

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I did not know the word clown.

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And I was like,

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how am I gonna communicate clown in this conversation?

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So I said,

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the person that paints their face in a circus.

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And they go,

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payaso.

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I'm like,

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oh,

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OK,

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it's payaso,

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Wonderful.

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So,

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you can always find a workaround if you don't know a word.

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So figure out a way to sign the same intent,

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but without knowing the sign,

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that would be my thought there.

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00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:47,119
Or

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just

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ask her,

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00:11:49,450 --> 00:11:52,450
I don't know how to say that or how do you say that?

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And then let her be a part of that communication

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because that's relationship preserving.

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Let's go back to

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our number one mantra always,

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what do I need to do in this moment that

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will most preserve the relationship or do the least harm?

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00:12:08,429 --> 00:12:10,150
That should be something that guides every

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minute of our interactions in a playroom.

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So if you feel that maybe it is a little bit of a

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00:12:14,869 --> 00:12:18,780
hindrance or maybe you are struggling because of your lack of fluency,

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00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:19,789
just say,

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I don't know how to sign that,

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or I don't know how to say that,

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and then let her help you

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because that's relational.

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And there's always a way to preserve the

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relationship so whether the interpreter might be helpful

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00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:35,539
or whether you just trust the process,

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trust that

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the relationship trumps everything else,

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I think those would be my suggestions for that scenario,

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but again,

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00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:45,210
we

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00:12:45,429 --> 00:12:47,460
need to say what we need to say in the playroom,

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00:12:47,669 --> 00:12:49,390
but we also know that the relationship

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00:12:49,390 --> 00:12:51,190
is more important than the verbal communication.

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All right.

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Love y'all.

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Thanks for hanging out with me.

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We'll talk again soon.

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Bye.

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Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.

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Brenna Hicks.

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For more episodes and resources,

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please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.