Podcast Extra: Coffee with John Kempf - Acres Eco-Ag Conference 2025

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So the question was, what are my

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thoughts on foliar -applied

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urea,

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melted urea,

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as a replacement for soil

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-applied nitrogen?

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I love it.

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I wish farmers would do a lot

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more of it because their total

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nitrogen requirement to grow a

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crop would go down

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substantially, it has beneficial

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impacts on soil biology, and you

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get very strong yield responses

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from it. So

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there's

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lots of information about

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melting urea online,

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how to do it.

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I'm not gonna go into detail on

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that, but one thing I'll point

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out that isn't common knowledge,

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And that is you specifically

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want a form of urea that is

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referred to as low bi urea,

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which means low biuret.

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And

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so

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the if

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if a grower asks me to make

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nitrogen recommendations on

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a corn crop, and I know nothing,

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I have no context, I don't know

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what the history is, I don't

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know what the soil's ability is

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to deliver nitrogen.

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My preferred approach

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is

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to

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apply 40

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pounds

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of nitrogen and 20 pounds of

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sulfur, preferably in the form

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of ammonium thiosulfate,

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at or before planting,

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and

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wait to apply any additional

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nitrogen until the need is

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revealed by sap analysis, and

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then either put on foliar

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applications of urea,

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or if that is not an option, to

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put on side -dress nitrogen

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applications.

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So that initial push, the

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reality is a

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lot of the older corn genetics

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had the ability to start strong

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without that initial nitrogen

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push, but a lot of modern

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genetics don't.

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They're very dependent on that

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nitrogen application right

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at the beginning.

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And in terms of applications,

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I've seen high as

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three applications of 10 pounds,

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the equivalent of 10 pounds of

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dry urea

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applied as a foliar over the

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course of a season.

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So that's 30 pounds of nitrogen,

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or no,

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15 pounds of nitrogen over the

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course of a season.

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And I've seen that replace as

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much as 45 to 50 units of soil

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applied nitrogen,

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sometimes more, but those are

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numbers that I'm comfortable

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talking about.

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The short answer is you can

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dramatically reduce the nitrogen

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requirement of the system

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overall by applying that as a

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foliar.

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And corn responds very well to

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urea applications.

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Urea is about the best, it is

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the best non -organic form of

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nitrogen that you can apply as a

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foliar,

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in my opinion.

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Does that answer your question?

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All

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right, yes.

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Yeah,

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so if I'm

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understanding the question

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correctly, the question is, what

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are my thoughts on foliar

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applying amino acid

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forms of nitrogen as compared to

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mineral forms of nitrogen and

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the crop response they produce

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and so forth. So

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theoretically,

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a pound of nitrogen coming from

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amino acids can replace four to

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five pounds of, in terms of crop

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response and yield response,

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will replace four to five pounds

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of conventional mineral

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nitrogen, either in ammonium or

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nitrate form.

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And this is why

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in organic production,

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Historically,

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growers and agronomists have

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been confused about applications

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of liquid fish or something like

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that, and they're putting on a

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nitrogen quantity that is just a

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fraction of

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conventional nitrogen

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applications, but they're still

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producing very strong yield

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responses. And it is because the

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nitrogen content of those

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products is in the amino acid

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form. However,

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our experience over the last

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half a dozen years or more has

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really brought

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to light that not all amino acid

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products are equivalent.

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They can be equivalent in

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nitrogen content on the label,

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but plants absorb them as

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foliar applications very

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differently.

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So

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in,

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just thinking out loud here,

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speaking in, this is some very

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broad brush strokes, but

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In general,

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the amino acids that are

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produced through some type of

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enzymatic breakdown process or

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fermentation process are

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much more readily absorbed than

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others.

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So

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liquid fish, for example, is

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absorbed quite readily.

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That's why we get a nice

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nitrogen response from liquid

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fish historically.

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But there are,

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and I don't want to speak

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disparaging of any products, so

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I'm not going to name any

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products, but there are some

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amino acid powders

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particularly plant extract

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-based ones, such as soybean

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powder -based,

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that

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the plants just don't respond to

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it

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very well.

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You put on an application, and

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you'll

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have to try this and just

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evaluate how products perform.

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So

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I'd say there is,

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the amino acid products have a

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great deal of promise and

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potential. When they perform,

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they perform incredibly well.

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And when they don't perform,

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they're a complete dud.

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There's very little middle

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ground between the two,

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yeah.

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Any other questions?

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The first question,

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you responded by

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urea.

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Is that the same thing that he

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was talking about?

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Are the two terms the same?

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Melted urea.

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So urea is most commonly and

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most readily available in a dry

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granular form.

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And if you want to apply it

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as

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a liquid form, either spraying

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it on or an irrigation system or

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something like that,

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it needs to be dissolved.

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And it's sometimes referred to

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as melted urea

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because it dissolves fairly

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readily.

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But if you want to produce a

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concentrated version of it, like

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anything I think above 14 %

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nitrogen,

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It requires using hot water and

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it requires using sometimes

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stainless steel equipment

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instead of poly equipment only

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because it

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produces, in the process of

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melting it, it produces an

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exothermic reaction.

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It gets very cold.

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I've seen the process of melting

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urea

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not using hot water,

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putting an inch and a half to

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two inches of hoarfrost on the

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outside of a tank.

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So

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because of that, that language

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is used of melted urea.

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And the forms of granular urea,

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the most common form

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that is used in

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dry broadcast fertilizer

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applications as granular urea

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contains this,

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I'm not sure what the

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appropriate term is here, but

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I'll use the term contaminant.

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It contains this contaminant

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called biuret that has a

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negative,

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can become toxic to plants when

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applied as a foliar in large

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enough amounts, has a negative

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effect to plants applied as a

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foliar, but not when applied to

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soil.

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So that's why we specify

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a specific grade of urea when

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we're melting it and using it in

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foliars.

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Any other questions?

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Surely you've woken up already.

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Yeah.

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What's the question exactly?

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So you said if.

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if...

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So

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the

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question was,

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do plants struggle to absorb

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calcium if boron levels in soils

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are low?

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Did I capture that correctly?

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Oh boy,

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this is a fun conversation.

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The short answer is yes.

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When you have low boron levels,

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plants will not absorb calcium

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very well.

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But much more than that, they

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also won't move calcium around

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inside the plant very well.

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They won't metabolize it very

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efficiently. The whole calcium

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metabolism process just

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breaks down and functions very

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poorly if plants don't have

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enough boron.

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So,

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this

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is, I spent some time talking

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about this in my first day

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class,

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but I know there's many new

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faces here. So I'll give you a

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quick synopsis again.

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I'm of the persuasion that

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if

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If we made sure that crops had

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adequate levels of boron,

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the pesticide requirements and

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the pesticide, or I should say

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specifically insecticides, the

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use of insecticides would drop

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by 95 %

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because.

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Yes.

300
00:08:59,129 --> 00:09:00,529
Thank you. I'll come back to

301
00:09:00,529 --> 00:09:01,409
that. So the question was

302
00:09:01,409 --> 00:09:04,029
specifically on boron in the

303
00:09:04,029 --> 00:09:05,580
soil rather than as foliar

304
00:09:05,580 --> 00:09:06,379
applications.

305
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:08,240
So

306
00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:11,769
the,

307
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,819
as a result of a lot of

308
00:09:15,819 --> 00:09:17,340
experimentation on many

309
00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,139
different crops,

310
00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:20,580
I've come to the conclusion that

311
00:09:20,830 --> 00:09:23,169
the desired values of boron

312
00:09:24,059 --> 00:09:25,799
are about

313
00:09:26,139 --> 00:09:29,080
20%, between 10 and 20 % of what

314
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,340
they actually need to be

315
00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:33,200
for really healthy plants, for

316
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,000
most crops.

317
00:09:35,149 --> 00:09:35,970
And so

318
00:09:36,639 --> 00:09:37,440
I'm talking,

319
00:09:38,019 --> 00:09:39,919
there's of course different

320
00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:41,340
soils and different crops are

321
00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:42,340
described as having very

322
00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:43,139
different requirements.

323
00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:44,200
It's difficult to speak in

324
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,000
universal terms.

325
00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:47,220
But as a general rule,

326
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,700
the very lowest level, let's say

327
00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:51,019
we have very sandy soil,

328
00:09:51,950 --> 00:09:53,649
the very lowest level of calcium

329
00:09:53,649 --> 00:09:54,990
that is required to produce a

330
00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:56,509
healthy crop is 1 ,000 parts per

331
00:09:56,509 --> 00:09:57,649
million calcium in the soil.

332
00:09:59,019 --> 00:09:59,860
And for

333
00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:02,370
that 1 ,000 parts per million

334
00:10:02,370 --> 00:10:03,169
calcium,

335
00:10:03,830 --> 00:10:05,429
I want to see three parts per

336
00:10:05,429 --> 00:10:07,129
million boron in the soil.

337
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,559
And that's my general,

338
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:11,299
Rule of thumb,

339
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,379
general ratio is 1 ,000 parts

340
00:10:13,379 --> 00:10:14,179
per million to three.

341
00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,419
So if you have soil that has

342
00:10:17,019 --> 00:10:18,240
2 ,000 parts per million

343
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:19,039
calcium,

344
00:10:19,799 --> 00:10:22,179
you can bring boron levels up to

345
00:10:22,179 --> 00:10:24,159
six parts per million on most

346
00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:26,299
soils and most crops and have

347
00:10:26,299 --> 00:10:27,940
increasing positive crop

348
00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:29,159
responses the more you bring

349
00:10:29,159 --> 00:10:30,019
boron levels up.

350
00:10:31,149 --> 00:10:33,029
So the least expensive way is,

351
00:10:33,169 --> 00:10:34,870
but we haven't,

352
00:10:36,210 --> 00:10:38,250
we've been taught to think, or

353
00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:40,389
largely the conversation around

354
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:41,649
boron for many years has been

355
00:10:41,649 --> 00:10:43,029
described as

356
00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:45,430
using boron as a soil amendment.

357
00:10:45,590 --> 00:10:46,430
Oh, this is something you do

358
00:10:46,430 --> 00:10:47,649
once every three years or once

359
00:10:47,649 --> 00:10:48,590
every five years or something

360
00:10:48,590 --> 00:10:49,389
like that.

361
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:50,769
But we sure don't think about

362
00:10:50,769 --> 00:10:51,590
nitrogen that way,

363
00:10:52,180 --> 00:10:53,419
and we don't think about sulfur

364
00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:54,219
that way,

365
00:10:55,049 --> 00:10:56,269
because we recognize that

366
00:10:56,269 --> 00:10:57,430
nitrogen and sulfur leach.

367
00:10:58,110 --> 00:10:59,809
And boron does exactly the same

368
00:10:59,809 --> 00:11:01,049
thing. Boron is an anion.

369
00:11:01,169 --> 00:11:01,969
It's negatively charged.

370
00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:02,889
It leaches out of the system.

371
00:11:03,370 --> 00:11:04,930
And we have to think about

372
00:11:04,930 --> 00:11:07,610
applying it every year until

373
00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:09,919
our soil has demonstrated the

374
00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:12,240
ability to hold on to boron and

375
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,440
for it not to leach, which is a

376
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:14,500
reflection of soil fungal

377
00:11:14,500 --> 00:11:15,299
populations.

378
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,100
My rule of thumb for boron

379
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:20,899
applications,

380
00:11:21,139 --> 00:11:23,980
it is relative to rainfall and

381
00:11:24,379 --> 00:11:25,919
relative to soil calcium levels.

382
00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:27,620
So relative to rainfall,

383
00:11:28,330 --> 00:11:29,409
our rule of thumb is that you

384
00:11:29,409 --> 00:11:31,549
need a half a pound of actual

385
00:11:31,549 --> 00:11:33,669
boron per acre per 10 inches of

386
00:11:33,669 --> 00:11:34,469
rainfall per year.

387
00:11:35,379 --> 00:11:37,799
So if you're in a 40 -inch

388
00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:38,679
rainfall environment,

389
00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:41,080
that means you need two pounds

390
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,100
of actual boron.

391
00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:44,700
That is the quantity of boron

392
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:45,500
that the

393
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:47,950
rainfall is going to leach out

394
00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:48,950
of the soil if

395
00:11:49,389 --> 00:11:50,189
you do nothing.

396
00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:51,980
Does that track so far?

397
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:54,509
So to your original question,

398
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:58,970
we've found that

399
00:11:58,970 --> 00:12:01,490
in

400
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,659
terms of plant response, of

401
00:12:03,659 --> 00:12:04,779
plant absorption of boron,

402
00:12:05,710 --> 00:12:07,250
For all the various forms, we've

403
00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:08,870
measured boric acid,

404
00:12:09,289 --> 00:12:10,089
solubor,

405
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,440
calcium borate, sodium borate,

406
00:12:12,950 --> 00:12:15,330
various forms. And there is a,

407
00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:16,980
from what we've observed, there

408
00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:19,559
is a similar release

409
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,679
response across all those

410
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:22,919
different types of boron where

411
00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:24,480
we're getting peak plant

412
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,139
absorption about 45 to 60 days

413
00:12:26,139 --> 00:12:26,980
after application.

414
00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:29,600
And because of that, our

415
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:30,679
preferred application

416
00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:32,720
If we're dealing with perennial

417
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,159
crops that are breaking dormancy

418
00:12:35,159 --> 00:12:36,200
in the spring, and this doesn't

419
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,899
matter if it's alfalfa or tree

420
00:12:37,899 --> 00:12:39,139
fruit or whatever the case might

421
00:12:39,139 --> 00:12:39,939
be,

422
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:41,299
but that calcium supply, having

423
00:12:41,299 --> 00:12:42,639
adequate, we often have this

424
00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:44,659
spring lush growth, spring

425
00:12:44,659 --> 00:12:45,459
flush.

426
00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,100
And to have that spring flush be

427
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:48,980
at peak disease resistance,

428
00:12:49,580 --> 00:12:51,360
peak insect resistance, we need

429
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,180
calcium to match the growth

430
00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:53,980
flush.

431
00:12:54,139 --> 00:12:55,960
And therefore, we need boron to

432
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:56,860
match the growth flush.

433
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,000
So if we put on a boron

434
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,500
application in the spring, we're

435
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:00,500
60 days too late.

436
00:13:01,539 --> 00:13:02,879
Let me rephrase that.

437
00:13:02,980 --> 00:13:04,620
If we put a boron application on

438
00:13:04,620 --> 00:13:06,639
that is timed with the spring

439
00:13:06,639 --> 00:13:07,439
lush,

440
00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:08,559
it's 60 days too late.

441
00:13:09,330 --> 00:13:10,129
So for

442
00:13:10,419 --> 00:13:11,580
a lot of these perennial crops,

443
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,720
we're finding our best responses

444
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,000
come from putting on a soil

445
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,120
application of boron

446
00:13:18,370 --> 00:13:21,269
minimum of 45 to 60 days

447
00:13:21,549 --> 00:13:24,730
before we get spring dormancy

448
00:13:24,730 --> 00:13:25,529
break.

449
00:13:25,549 --> 00:13:26,870
And that can even happen as

450
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:28,569
early as fall. You can do it 90

451
00:13:28,569 --> 00:13:29,930
days or 100 days in advance.

452
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,240
And that's when we get the peak

453
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,740
response in terms of calcium

454
00:13:33,740 --> 00:13:35,840
absorption and in terms of boron

455
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:36,860
absorption into the crop.

456
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:38,279
Did that answer your question?

457
00:13:45,149 --> 00:13:47,149
The boron application rate is

458
00:13:47,149 --> 00:13:50,049
one half pound of actual boron

459
00:13:50,049 --> 00:13:50,849
per

460
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,539
10 inches of rainfall.

461
00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:55,679
Yes.

462
00:13:56,019 --> 00:13:57,519
So how often do you recommend

463
00:13:57,519 --> 00:13:59,279
that we sound test corn fields

464
00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:00,480
throughout the throwing season?

465
00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:01,559
And secondly,

466
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,899
what the problem, based on what

467
00:14:03,899 --> 00:14:05,100
you see on the sound test,

468
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:06,700
What is going to be the most

469
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,419
difficult to change in a foliar

470
00:14:08,419 --> 00:14:09,219
application?

471
00:14:10,259 --> 00:14:11,059
Alright,

472
00:14:13,129 --> 00:14:13,990
two very good questions.

473
00:14:14,190 --> 00:14:15,450
So the first question is how

474
00:14:15,450 --> 00:14:16,669
frequently do I recommend the

475
00:14:16,669 --> 00:14:18,110
use of sap analysis on a corn

476
00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:18,909
crop, for example?

477
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:20,429
And the second question

478
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:21,820
is

479
00:14:22,549 --> 00:14:24,690
what nutrients do I find the

480
00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:26,350
most difficult to move with a

481
00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:27,149
foliar application?

482
00:14:27,389 --> 00:14:28,789
Did I capture that accurately?

483
00:14:29,330 --> 00:14:30,129
Yeah.

484
00:14:30,409 --> 00:14:31,209
So

485
00:14:31,379 --> 00:14:33,200
to the first question,

486
00:14:33,819 --> 00:14:35,840
there are two answers.

487
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,299
The one answer is a desire to

488
00:14:40,299 --> 00:14:41,299
learn about your crop

489
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:43,720
and how it actually moves

490
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:44,740
nutrients around during the

491
00:14:44,740 --> 00:14:45,539
growing season

492
00:14:45,690 --> 00:14:46,990
every 14 days.

493
00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:49,059
The second answer is

494
00:14:49,379 --> 00:14:51,180
what's the minimum needed to

495
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:54,080
make agronomic recommendations.

496
00:14:55,899 --> 00:14:57,460
And I would say the minimum on a

497
00:14:57,460 --> 00:14:58,539
corn crop is about three

498
00:14:58,950 --> 00:14:59,750
and

499
00:15:00,289 --> 00:15:01,450
ideally

500
00:15:02,529 --> 00:15:03,870
I would suggest doing it about

501
00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:05,110
every 7 to 10 days,

502
00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:07,090
however much time you need for

503
00:15:07,090 --> 00:15:07,889
turnaround time.

504
00:15:07,889 --> 00:15:09,590
Let's say every 10 days before

505
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:11,029
you intend to make a foliar

506
00:15:11,029 --> 00:15:11,829
application.

507
00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:14,620
That's when you get the peak.

508
00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:16,629
That's the most practical, from

509
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:17,669
a practical application

510
00:15:17,669 --> 00:15:18,750
perspective, that's the optimal

511
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:19,549
timing.

512
00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:23,279
And then in terms of getting

513
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:24,460
nutrients to move.

514
00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:27,559
the,

515
00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:30,220
I'd say one of the most

516
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:31,779
difficult things to get to move

517
00:15:31,779 --> 00:15:32,579
generally

518
00:15:32,950 --> 00:15:34,889
is getting excess of chloride

519
00:15:34,889 --> 00:15:35,850
levels to go down.

520
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:38,529
In

521
00:15:39,059 --> 00:15:41,480
terms of having, in terms of

522
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,960
having low levels of nutrients

523
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,080
and getting them to increase,

524
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:46,960
we

525
00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:49,129
don't have,

526
00:15:49,659 --> 00:15:50,459
this

527
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,139
is an interesting conundrum

528
00:15:53,139 --> 00:15:53,939
question,

529
00:15:53,919 --> 00:15:55,100
because I can answer it in the

530
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,799
context of our experience at AEA

531
00:15:56,799 --> 00:15:57,720
or outside of AEA.

532
00:15:57,779 --> 00:15:58,620
So let me say it this way.

533
00:15:58,840 --> 00:15:59,639
When

534
00:15:59,970 --> 00:16:01,070
we first started using SAP

535
00:16:01,070 --> 00:16:02,049
analysis in 2011,

536
00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:06,179
We quickly discovered that the

537
00:16:06,179 --> 00:16:07,379
trace mineral products that we

538
00:16:07,379 --> 00:16:08,679
were using at the time, and we

539
00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:10,840
were using manganese sulfate and

540
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,379
zinc sulfate and so forth, using

541
00:16:13,379 --> 00:16:14,940
sulfates that we were blending

542
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:16,559
with fulvic acids and organic

543
00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:17,600
acids and amino acids.

544
00:16:18,730 --> 00:16:20,490
And we quickly discovered that

545
00:16:20,490 --> 00:16:21,789
the materials we were using at

546
00:16:21,789 --> 00:16:23,250
that point were not moving the

547
00:16:23,250 --> 00:16:24,049
needle.

548
00:16:23,940 --> 00:16:25,360
They just simply were not being

549
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,379
effective at increasing,

550
00:16:26,580 --> 00:16:28,059
specifically zinc, manganese,

551
00:16:28,340 --> 00:16:29,399
copper, cobalt.

552
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:33,480
And

553
00:16:33,970 --> 00:16:34,769
Today,

554
00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:36,730
so that led to the development

555
00:16:36,730 --> 00:16:39,169
of the rebound line of trace

556
00:16:39,169 --> 00:16:39,969
minerals,

557
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:41,909
which is, the rebound line of

558
00:16:41,909 --> 00:16:44,659
trace minerals has three

559
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:45,980
important characteristics.

560
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:47,680
One is they're chelated.

561
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:49,539
Second,

562
00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:51,809
in the case of the metals,

563
00:16:51,889 --> 00:16:52,889
they're all in the reduced form,

564
00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:53,730
they're in the correct oxidation

565
00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:54,509
state.

566
00:16:54,759 --> 00:16:55,559
And third,

567
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,259
as far as I know, I'm not aware

568
00:16:58,259 --> 00:16:59,919
of other chelated products that

569
00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:01,120
exist that have this

570
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:01,919
characteristic.

571
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:03,519
They

572
00:17:03,970 --> 00:17:04,769
have the ability,

573
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,160
when they're applied to the

574
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:07,960
leaf,

575
00:17:08,250 --> 00:17:09,529
to move down into the root

576
00:17:09,529 --> 00:17:10,329
system.

577
00:17:10,250 --> 00:17:11,869
So even if you have a typical

578
00:17:11,869 --> 00:17:12,669
chelate,

579
00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:14,559
it's very common for most

580
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:16,299
chelates to remain in the upper

581
00:17:16,299 --> 00:17:17,099
parts of the plant.

582
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,660
So if you put on a zinc chelate

583
00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:19,640
or a manganese chelate, for

584
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:20,759
example, it's very common for

585
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:21,980
that. It can move

586
00:17:22,289 --> 00:17:25,369
from the leaf into

587
00:17:25,369 --> 00:17:26,230
fruit,

588
00:17:26,609 --> 00:17:28,089
but it doesn't really move from

589
00:17:28,089 --> 00:17:29,029
the leaf down to the root

590
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:30,329
system, which is very important

591
00:17:30,329 --> 00:17:32,329
if you are dealing with any root

592
00:17:32,329 --> 00:17:33,450
diseases or soil -borne

593
00:17:33,450 --> 00:17:34,309
diseases. Getting those

594
00:17:34,309 --> 00:17:35,109
nutrients down to the root

595
00:17:35,069 --> 00:17:35,990
system is very critical.

596
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:39,130
So in

597
00:17:40,049 --> 00:17:41,609
our experience with our rebound

598
00:17:41,609 --> 00:17:42,430
trace minerals,

599
00:17:42,930 --> 00:17:43,910
getting the trace minerals to

600
00:17:43,910 --> 00:17:45,509
move is very easy and very

601
00:17:45,509 --> 00:17:46,650
consistent and very reliable.

602
00:17:47,220 --> 00:17:48,220
And outside of that,

603
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:49,859
it's proven to be very

604
00:17:49,859 --> 00:17:50,659
challenging

605
00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:52,349
to

606
00:17:53,690 --> 00:17:55,529
the point where we're often

607
00:17:55,529 --> 00:17:56,509
asked to,

608
00:17:57,289 --> 00:17:59,190
and we do a lot of consulting

609
00:17:59,190 --> 00:18:01,630
work internationally in areas

610
00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:03,910
where growers don't have access

611
00:18:03,910 --> 00:18:04,710
to our products.

612
00:18:04,809 --> 00:18:06,230
And so we're just doing paid

613
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:07,349
consulting work and making

614
00:18:07,349 --> 00:18:08,149
recommendations.

615
00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:10,319
And

616
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:12,400
those experiences are sometimes

617
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,079
very frustrating for us because

618
00:18:14,509 --> 00:18:16,069
We have expectations of being

619
00:18:16,069 --> 00:18:17,789
able to put a product on and see

620
00:18:17,789 --> 00:18:18,789
the needle move and get a

621
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:19,970
proportional crop response.

622
00:18:20,509 --> 00:18:21,529
And we have a very difficult

623
00:18:21,529 --> 00:18:22,690
time replicating that with

624
00:18:22,690 --> 00:18:23,490
products that are available in

625
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:24,250
the local marketplace.

626
00:18:25,150 --> 00:18:25,950
So,

627
00:18:25,769 --> 00:18:28,250
that's the answer to your

628
00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:29,049
question.

629
00:18:29,559 --> 00:18:30,359
Let me see,

630
00:18:31,019 --> 00:18:31,920
what was the second question?

631
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:44,059
At what time of day am I wasting

632
00:18:44,059 --> 00:18:45,480
my time on those foliar jobs?

633
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,680
For example, should it be

634
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:47,700
beginning on the 17th?

635
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:49,200
Should I put

636
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,799
a

637
00:18:52,980 --> 00:18:55,099
urea liquor with the foliar?

638
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:56,500
You

639
00:18:58,319 --> 00:18:59,339
want to have a class on foliar

640
00:18:59,339 --> 00:19:00,139
applications?

641
00:19:00,299 --> 00:19:01,119
Maybe we need to.

642
00:19:02,470 --> 00:19:03,269
Very good questions.

643
00:19:03,349 --> 00:19:04,509
So the questions were what are

644
00:19:04,509 --> 00:19:05,990
optimal time of day for

645
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:06,789
application?

646
00:19:07,289 --> 00:19:09,529
Do we need to put on urea liquor

647
00:19:09,529 --> 00:19:10,970
with every application?

648
00:19:11,269 --> 00:19:12,829
What is optimal design?

649
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:14,799
Well,

650
00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:16,619
prior to this week, if you would

651
00:19:16,619 --> 00:19:17,440
have asked me about optimal

652
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,299
design for,

653
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:20,220
or optimal timing for foliar

654
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:21,759
applications on corn, I would

655
00:19:21,759 --> 00:19:22,559
have said

656
00:19:22,670 --> 00:19:24,470
with a very high degree of

657
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:26,410
confidence that the

658
00:19:27,099 --> 00:19:28,359
optimal timing

659
00:19:28,740 --> 00:19:31,910
is late in the day, in the

660
00:19:31,910 --> 00:19:32,710
evening.

661
00:19:33,069 --> 00:19:33,869
The

662
00:19:34,099 --> 00:19:36,779
objective is to try to keep

663
00:19:36,779 --> 00:19:38,240
those foliar spray droplets

664
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,920
liquid on the leaf surface as

665
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:40,839
long as possible.

666
00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:43,759
So in nighttime when you have a

667
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:46,380
higher humidity usually, a lower

668
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:47,500
dew point usually,

669
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:49,319
is

670
00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:51,920
when you can keep that liquid,

671
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:53,559
that droplet liquid on the leaf

672
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:54,599
surface for the longest period

673
00:19:54,599 --> 00:19:55,399
of time.

674
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,440
And to partially answer your one

675
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:58,240
other question,

676
00:19:59,349 --> 00:20:00,809
For people who are not familiar,

677
00:20:01,049 --> 00:20:02,529
I taught this webinar, it's on

678
00:20:02,529 --> 00:20:03,329
YouTube,

679
00:20:03,289 --> 00:20:04,549
a number of years ago already,

680
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:06,410
where I spoke about this one

681
00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:07,750
factor in foliar applications

682
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:08,829
that is referred to as the point

683
00:20:08,829 --> 00:20:09,629
of deliquescence.

684
00:20:10,109 --> 00:20:11,089
And the point of deliquescence

685
00:20:11,089 --> 00:20:12,710
is a term that everyone should

686
00:20:12,710 --> 00:20:13,910
be familiar with, but most of us

687
00:20:13,910 --> 00:20:14,710
aren't.

688
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:17,230
And it's very simply, it is

689
00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:19,160
a measurement

690
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,619
of a fluid material's ability to

691
00:20:22,619 --> 00:20:24,500
be hydroscopic and to pull

692
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:25,700
moisture to it from the

693
00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:26,500
atmosphere.

694
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:28,460
So the point of deliquescence is

695
00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:29,839
a reflection of where is the

696
00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:30,920
humidity threshold in the

697
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,660
atmosphere at which this

698
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:35,599
spray droplet will remain

699
00:20:35,599 --> 00:20:36,399
liquid.

700
00:20:37,170 --> 00:20:39,210
And adding hydroscopic

701
00:20:39,210 --> 00:20:40,009
materials,

702
00:20:40,890 --> 00:20:42,289
which urea is one,

703
00:20:43,259 --> 00:20:45,140
or calcium nitrate, or potassium

704
00:20:45,140 --> 00:20:46,539
nitrate, adding those types of

705
00:20:46,539 --> 00:20:49,380
materials to a spray solution

706
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,819
In relatively small amounts,

707
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:54,859
urea can be included,

708
00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:56,759
if I recall correctly, in as

709
00:20:56,759 --> 00:20:58,420
little as 2 % of the spray

710
00:20:58,420 --> 00:20:59,220
solution.

711
00:20:59,710 --> 00:21:01,200
And that will give you an

712
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,359
elevated point of deliquescence

713
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:03,460
to the point where that liquid

714
00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:05,140
will stay, that droplet will

715
00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:06,440
remain liquid on the leaf

716
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,440
surface for a long period of

717
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,559
time. So it absolutely is

718
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:09,920
valuable to add those into the

719
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:10,720
spray solution.

720
00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:13,440
And I

721
00:21:15,349 --> 00:21:16,890
think it was on Monday here, or

722
00:21:16,890 --> 00:21:17,690
maybe yesterday,

723
00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:19,880
I had a conversation with a

724
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:20,960
grower who has

725
00:21:22,009 --> 00:21:22,950
been doing lots of foliar

726
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:23,750
applications

727
00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:27,529
of urea and other products with

728
00:21:27,529 --> 00:21:28,329
drone applications.

729
00:21:29,299 --> 00:21:31,619
And they found a 10 bushel per

730
00:21:31,619 --> 00:21:33,420
acre yield difference between

731
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:35,220
evening applied and morning

732
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:36,660
applied foliar applications.

733
00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:38,799
And the morning application

734
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:40,259
produced

735
00:21:40,869 --> 00:21:42,150
the highest response.

736
00:21:42,289 --> 00:21:43,490
The evening application had a

737
00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:44,650
lower response than the morning

738
00:21:44,650 --> 00:21:45,450
application,

739
00:21:45,769 --> 00:21:46,930
which is not what I would have

740
00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:48,009
expected. And I want to dig

741
00:21:48,009 --> 00:21:49,309
deeper into that case.

742
00:21:49,349 --> 00:21:51,220
I want to understand what was

743
00:21:51,220 --> 00:21:52,019
the humidity,

744
00:21:52,099 --> 00:21:53,519
what was dew like, what were

745
00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:54,700
other things going on.

746
00:21:54,819 --> 00:21:55,619
And because that,

747
00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:57,680
first

748
00:21:58,950 --> 00:22:00,150
of all, that experience is

749
00:22:00,150 --> 00:22:02,170
different from what I would have

750
00:22:02,170 --> 00:22:03,769
expected and what we've observed

751
00:22:03,769 --> 00:22:04,569
in other cases.

752
00:22:04,829 --> 00:22:05,910
And the

753
00:22:06,829 --> 00:22:08,329
caveat to that is that we don't

754
00:22:08,329 --> 00:22:09,490
have a lot of people who've

755
00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:11,190
actually measured the results.

756
00:22:11,769 --> 00:22:14,109
We look at visual observation,

757
00:22:14,289 --> 00:22:15,089
but we don't have a lot of

758
00:22:15,089 --> 00:22:15,889
measurements.

759
00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:16,950
So here's someone who's actually

760
00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:17,750
done the measurement.

761
00:22:18,309 --> 00:22:20,210
So now, we need to evaluate and

762
00:22:20,210 --> 00:22:22,170
find out what was actually

763
00:22:22,170 --> 00:22:23,150
happening and going on there.

764
00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:24,970
Did I answer all of your

765
00:22:24,970 --> 00:22:25,769
questions?

766
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,039
All right.

767
00:22:27,859 --> 00:22:28,659
Yes.

768
00:22:40,369 --> 00:22:41,710
Art, you love asking the

769
00:22:41,710 --> 00:22:42,829
provocative questions, don't

770
00:22:42,829 --> 00:22:43,629
you?

771
00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:45,500
So the question was, what water

772
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:46,680
are you using for your Foliar

773
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,480
spray quality?

774
00:22:48,109 --> 00:22:49,829
And water quality is absolutely

775
00:22:49,829 --> 00:22:50,629
fundamental.

776
00:22:52,099 --> 00:22:53,019
You can have

777
00:22:53,470 --> 00:22:54,829
you can have foliar applications

778
00:22:54,829 --> 00:22:56,490
with the exact same amounts of

779
00:22:56,490 --> 00:22:58,210
nutrients and put them in clean

780
00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:00,170
water and produce a very strong,

781
00:23:00,269 --> 00:23:01,569
very beneficial crop response,

782
00:23:01,670 --> 00:23:03,390
put them in dirty water and get

783
00:23:03,390 --> 00:23:04,849
zero response. And when I say

784
00:23:04,849 --> 00:23:06,059
dirty water, I'm not talking

785
00:23:06,059 --> 00:23:08,240
about physically observable

786
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,039
muddy water.

787
00:23:09,339 --> 00:23:10,519
I'm talking specifically about

788
00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:11,640
water that has high levels of

789
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,660
carbonates or bicarbonates.

790
00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:14,140
And so from my perspective,

791
00:23:15,650 --> 00:23:16,450
there are

792
00:23:17,150 --> 00:23:18,809
essentially

793
00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:22,599
three sources that

794
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:23,799
are possible.

795
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:25,859
One, you can use rainwater.

796
00:23:27,269 --> 00:23:28,069
Two,

797
00:23:28,369 --> 00:23:29,769
you can use reverse osmosis

798
00:23:29,769 --> 00:23:30,569
water.

799
00:23:31,339 --> 00:23:33,579
Three, you can use water that

800
00:23:34,220 --> 00:23:36,539
has been tested and measured and

801
00:23:36,539 --> 00:23:37,700
is known to be clean.

802
00:23:39,130 --> 00:23:40,190
And I don't want to have any

803
00:23:40,190 --> 00:23:41,349
follow -up questions from people

804
00:23:41,349 --> 00:23:42,490
asking me, well, hey, can I use

805
00:23:42,490 --> 00:23:43,609
well water? Can I use pond

806
00:23:43,609 --> 00:23:44,650
water? Can I use river water?

807
00:23:44,730 --> 00:23:45,529
Can I use stream water?

808
00:23:45,490 --> 00:23:46,289
It's very simple.

809
00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:47,450
You have to test it and know

810
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:48,250
that it's clean,

811
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:50,660
because I can't speculate.

812
00:23:56,859 --> 00:23:58,160
Reverse osmosis units

813
00:23:58,630 --> 00:24:01,210
pay significant dividends in

814
00:24:01,210 --> 00:24:02,009
foliar applications.

815
00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:02,970
If you're doing foliar

816
00:24:02,829 --> 00:24:04,369
applications, a reverse osmosis

817
00:24:04,369 --> 00:24:05,329
unit in most

818
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:07,440
regions of the soil, most

819
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,480
regions of the country, unless

820
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:09,720
you have the ability to access

821
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,119
rainwater in large enough

822
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:11,919
amounts,

823
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:13,480
a reverse osmosis unit pays for

824
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,859
itself very quickly and improve

825
00:24:14,859 --> 00:24:15,980
product performance and improve

826
00:24:15,980 --> 00:24:16,779
prop performance.

827
00:24:17,410 --> 00:24:19,210
They're very, very necessary and

828
00:24:19,210 --> 00:24:20,069
very valuable devices.

829
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:21,650
The next question that someone

830
00:24:21,650 --> 00:24:22,890
is about to ask is, what about

831
00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:23,950
water structuring devices?

832
00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:26,569
There are,

833
00:24:27,450 --> 00:24:28,670
I've had this conversation a

834
00:24:28,670 --> 00:24:29,750
hundred times or two, you see.

835
00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:33,509
There are

836
00:24:34,619 --> 00:24:35,839
many water structuring devices

837
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:36,779
on the marketplace.

838
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:39,119
A few of them,

839
00:24:39,829 --> 00:24:40,869
are quite effective.

840
00:24:42,069 --> 00:24:44,450
And I would point people to, I

841
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:46,210
don't know if Steve Divers spoke

842
00:24:46,210 --> 00:24:47,509
yesterday, I think he's speaking

843
00:24:47,509 --> 00:24:48,309
today.

844
00:24:48,509 --> 00:24:49,910
If you're interested in water

845
00:24:49,910 --> 00:24:50,990
structuring devices and

846
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:52,130
technology, I would encourage

847
00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:53,710
you to speak to Steve because

848
00:24:53,710 --> 00:24:56,829
many, many folks

849
00:24:56,829 --> 00:24:57,629
have

850
00:24:57,650 --> 00:25:00,069
theoretical conversations

851
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:03,240
Steve has actually tested many

852
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,789
different devices and tested

853
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:06,799
their,

854
00:25:07,289 --> 00:25:08,930
the crop response that they

855
00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:09,730
produce.

856
00:25:10,049 --> 00:25:12,349
And he actually knows which are

857
00:25:12,349 --> 00:25:13,349
effective and which are not.

858
00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:15,049
So I would defer to Steve for

859
00:25:15,049 --> 00:25:15,849
that conversation.

860
00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:17,259
All right, we had another

861
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:18,079
question over here somewhere.

862
00:25:20,539 --> 00:25:21,339
Not anymore.

863
00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:22,460
You're

864
00:25:40,569 --> 00:25:41,589
referring to the timing of the

865
00:25:41,589 --> 00:25:42,690
foliar application response.

866
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,779
So this gentleman was just

867
00:25:45,779 --> 00:25:46,940
referring to

868
00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:49,549
possibly corn might produce a

869
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:50,349
larger

870
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:52,000
response

871
00:25:52,309 --> 00:25:53,789
from a morning application

872
00:25:53,789 --> 00:25:54,589
versus

873
00:25:55,329 --> 00:25:58,049
a fall application in a drought

874
00:25:58,049 --> 00:25:59,109
-stressed environment where you

875
00:25:59,109 --> 00:26:01,519
have stomatal opening limited

876
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:02,660
mostly to the morning hours

877
00:26:02,660 --> 00:26:03,599
instead of to the evening hours?

878
00:26:03,619 --> 00:26:04,720
Am I understanding correctly or

879
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:05,519
interpreting correctly?

880
00:26:15,460 --> 00:26:16,259
Yeah, so,

881
00:26:17,259 --> 00:26:18,660
and

882
00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:21,420
the follow -up clarification was

883
00:26:21,420 --> 00:26:23,099
on what

884
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:24,759
is the,

885
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:26,380
that corn has a different

886
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:27,640
stomatal arrangement on the leaf

887
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,460
than a lot of other plants do.

888
00:26:32,619 --> 00:26:34,420
The caveat that I would offer is

889
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:35,740
that the majority of nutrient

890
00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:36,779
absorption through

891
00:26:37,509 --> 00:26:38,470
the leaf is not through the

892
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:39,269
stomata.

893
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:41,029
In fact,

894
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:42,900
very limited levels.

895
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:45,200
If anyone tries to sell you a

896
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,000
story

897
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,859
that nutrients absorption, they

898
00:26:48,859 --> 00:26:50,880
have a micronized calcium

899
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:51,859
carbonate product or something

900
00:26:51,859 --> 00:26:52,659
like that, that is being

901
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,619
absorbed through the stomata,

902
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:54,640
that's a bunch of bologna.

903
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:57,440
because stomata represent,

904
00:26:57,779 --> 00:26:59,519
I don't know, less than 1 % of

905
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:00,900
the surface area of a leaf.

906
00:27:03,460 --> 00:27:05,380
So what actually happens,

907
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,160
what should happen, what can

908
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,740
happen, there is,

909
00:27:10,099 --> 00:27:11,700
of course, ionic diffusion that

910
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:13,680
happens when you have soluble

911
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:14,900
ions and soluble products,

912
00:27:15,019 --> 00:27:15,839
chelates and so forth.

913
00:27:16,779 --> 00:27:20,059
But what an underappreciated

914
00:27:20,059 --> 00:27:23,440
mechanism is that we have a

915
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,980
very active microbial population

916
00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:28,039
on the leaf surface that will

917
00:27:28,539 --> 00:27:30,640
absorb nutrients and transfer it

918
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,240
into the leaf in much the same

919
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,339
way as what happens in the soil

920
00:27:33,339 --> 00:27:34,139
microbiome.

921
00:27:34,859 --> 00:27:36,119
So we should be thinking about

922
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,000
the leaf microbiome similar to

923
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,799
what we're thinking about the

924
00:27:38,740 --> 00:27:39,539
soil microbiome.

925
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:40,779
And a lot of the products that

926
00:27:40,779 --> 00:27:41,579
we're applying

927
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,640
are actually absorbed by

928
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,240
microbes and then transferred

929
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,759
into plants, particularly if

930
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:47,900
we're putting on dry powder

931
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:49,900
products like powdered calcium

932
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:50,819
carbonate or something like

933
00:27:50,819 --> 00:27:51,619
that.

934
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,779
So that doesn't reduce their

935
00:27:52,779 --> 00:27:53,579
effectiveness,

936
00:27:53,829 --> 00:27:55,170
but it means that they can have

937
00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:56,589
a delayed effectiveness where

938
00:27:56,589 --> 00:27:59,240
the peak effect might occur 24

939
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,039
to 48 hours later instead of 4

940
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:02,160
to 6 hours if you're applying

941
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,259
urea or something like that.

942
00:28:04,779 --> 00:28:05,579
Yes, Helen.

943
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,420
trying to understand how the

944
00:28:10,420 --> 00:28:12,680
foliar applications that we did

945
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,819
at Blue for perennials work, I

946
00:28:14,819 --> 00:28:16,700
totally agree with doing more on

947
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:18,420
it and why we were able to stop

948
00:28:18,420 --> 00:28:20,140
spraying that with some peaches.

949
00:28:20,539 --> 00:28:22,950
But once we discovered the

950
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:24,650
native yeast on the leaves,

951
00:28:25,009 --> 00:28:26,849
trying to figure that out,

952
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:31,660
I still don't quite get it.

953
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:33,099
But I know that there's an

954
00:28:33,099 --> 00:28:33,899
interaction.

955
00:28:34,509 --> 00:28:35,950
Do you think that you could have

956
00:28:35,950 --> 00:28:37,369
been predictive about,

957
00:28:37,789 --> 00:28:38,950
OK, I'm going to ask Dippo.

958
00:28:39,630 --> 00:28:41,849
about particular microbial

959
00:28:41,849 --> 00:28:44,730
communities in the leaf surface,

960
00:28:45,009 --> 00:28:46,410
foliar

961
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:48,319
application,

962
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:50,869
and time. can

963
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:54,390
you can you ask me that question

964
00:28:54,390 --> 00:28:55,190
again

965
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:57,569
that last sentence can you

966
00:28:57,569 --> 00:28:58,789
compress that last sentence

967
00:28:58,789 --> 00:28:59,589
again

968
00:29:03,299 --> 00:29:05,359
applications on inverts.

969
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,839
And notice different efficacy in

970
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:12,220
terms of both yield and in

971
00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:15,559
terms of particularly disease

972
00:29:15,559 --> 00:29:16,359
suppression.

973
00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:17,960
Yeah. And not so much insect

974
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,680
suppression, but definitely

975
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,279
disease suppression with things

976
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:25,019
like boron and other

977
00:29:25,019 --> 00:29:26,819
micronutrients in our mineral

978
00:29:26,819 --> 00:29:27,880
mix, right? Yeah.

979
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,680
Once we discovered and tried to

980
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:31,720
understand

981
00:29:32,150 --> 00:29:34,390
the microbial leaf community

982
00:29:34,390 --> 00:29:36,329
pulled out a geist,

983
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:38,230
which turned out to be,

984
00:29:38,869 --> 00:29:39,669
ironically,

985
00:29:39,589 --> 00:29:40,389
oracy.

986
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:41,779
But could

987
00:29:43,789 --> 00:29:44,769
you be predictive?

988
00:29:45,069 --> 00:29:46,390
I'm sorry, I'm talking with my

989
00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:47,190
hands.

990
00:29:47,109 --> 00:29:48,950
Could you be predictive about

991
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:49,809
that and say,

992
00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:52,809
if one leaf microbial population

993
00:29:52,809 --> 00:29:55,650
is leaning this way,

994
00:29:56,849 --> 00:29:57,649
I can,

995
00:29:58,089 --> 00:29:59,549
I have the options of doing

996
00:29:59,549 --> 00:30:00,349
that?

997
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,759
all of that question to the

998
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:07,559
audience.

999
00:30:07,579 --> 00:30:09,700
But the question was,

1000
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:12,059
so Helen Athow is asking the

1001
00:30:12,059 --> 00:30:13,400
question. She's the author of

1002
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,200
the book,

1003
00:30:14,099 --> 00:30:15,000
what is it, The Ecological

1004
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:15,799
Farmer?

1005
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:17,700
I

1006
00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:19,079
really enjoyed the conversations

1007
00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:19,960
that I had with her on the

1008
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:20,759
podcast.

1009
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,940
And the observation that she's

1010
00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:24,720
relaying is that when they were

1011
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,059
growing organic tree fruit, they

1012
00:30:26,059 --> 00:30:29,000
observed variable responses to

1013
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,599
foliar applications of nutrients

1014
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:32,279
relative to disease suppression

1015
00:30:33,049 --> 00:30:34,529
based on what was happening

1016
00:30:34,529 --> 00:30:36,109
within the plant microbiome, on

1017
00:30:36,109 --> 00:30:36,950
the leaf microbiome.

1018
00:30:37,029 --> 00:30:38,049
Did I capture that correctly?

1019
00:30:38,589 --> 00:30:39,389
Yeah, awesome.

1020
00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:41,480
And her question is,

1021
00:30:42,099 --> 00:30:44,480
how can we manage that

1022
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,279
proactively?

1023
00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:47,950
All right,

1024
00:30:49,049 --> 00:30:50,630
this is such a fun conversation.

1025
00:30:51,390 --> 00:30:52,900
So I

1026
00:30:57,119 --> 00:30:59,160
should back up just a bit

1027
00:31:00,299 --> 00:31:03,000
to expand on one of the previous

1028
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,500
points that I made about boron,

1029
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:05,740
because it's going to tie into

1030
00:31:05,740 --> 00:31:06,539
this discussion.

1031
00:31:09,539 --> 00:31:11,880
Boron, if there is any nutrient

1032
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:12,700
that

1033
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:15,660
has the most, the nutrient that

1034
00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:17,599
has the most direct correlation

1035
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:19,920
to brix levels in plants is

1036
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:20,720
boron.

1037
00:31:21,299 --> 00:31:22,680
If you want to increase a

1038
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:23,660
plant's BRX reading,

1039
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,460
about

1040
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:27,880
80 % of the time,

1041
00:31:28,390 --> 00:31:29,470
simply putting on a boron

1042
00:31:29,470 --> 00:31:30,390
application is going to

1043
00:31:30,390 --> 00:31:31,509
dramatically increase the BRX

1044
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:32,549
reading. And I'm talking,

1045
00:31:33,140 --> 00:31:33,940
it'll take

1046
00:31:33,990 --> 00:31:36,190
sugars from 2s and 3s up to 8s

1047
00:31:36,190 --> 00:31:36,990
and 10s.

1048
00:31:37,819 --> 00:31:39,200
most of the time, but not

1049
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,000
always.

1050
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,000
And the reason it doesn't do it

1051
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,200
always is because in order for

1052
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:44,119
it to have that effect,

1053
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:45,680
some of the other foundational

1054
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,099
pieces have to be in place as

1055
00:31:47,099 --> 00:31:48,000
well. You have to have adequate

1056
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:48,799
calcium levels.

1057
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:49,559
You have to have adequate

1058
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:50,079
manganese levels.

1059
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:51,799
Boron by itself isn't a silver

1060
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:53,200
bullet, but it is very closely

1061
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,140
associated with elevated Briggs

1062
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:55,940
readings.

1063
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:57,839
And so from an insect management

1064
00:31:57,839 --> 00:31:58,639
perspective,

1065
00:31:59,140 --> 00:32:00,619
it's become very clear.

1066
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,680
I have

1067
00:32:01,940 --> 00:32:03,440
tremendous respect and

1068
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,819
appreciation for Tom Dykstra's

1069
00:32:04,819 --> 00:32:05,619
work.

1070
00:32:05,559 --> 00:32:07,279
on the association of brix

1071
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:08,079
readings with insect

1072
00:32:08,019 --> 00:32:08,819
susceptibility.

1073
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:10,819
In our experience, we've found

1074
00:32:10,819 --> 00:32:11,740
it to be a little bit more

1075
00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:13,079
multidimensional than just brix

1076
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:13,879
readings alone.

1077
00:32:14,039 --> 00:32:15,180
It's the combination of both

1078
00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:16,660
having higher brix readings and

1079
00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:18,700
having lower levels of soluble

1080
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:20,019
nitrogen compounds, soluble

1081
00:32:20,019 --> 00:32:21,380
nitrates and ammonium in the

1082
00:32:21,380 --> 00:32:22,380
plant sap. When you have the

1083
00:32:22,380 --> 00:32:23,700
combination of those two things,

1084
00:32:24,140 --> 00:32:25,059
your insect pressure

1085
00:32:25,970 --> 00:32:26,769
just vanishes.

1086
00:32:27,109 --> 00:32:28,470
It's gone. And I'm talking about

1087
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:30,190
very difficult to manage insects

1088
00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:32,529
such as codling moth and

1089
00:32:32,529 --> 00:32:35,529
Japanese beetles and Colorado

1090
00:32:35,529 --> 00:32:36,329
potato beetles.

1091
00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:37,109
The list goes on and on.

1092
00:32:37,230 --> 00:32:38,309
It becomes a lot of fun.

1093
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:39,630
You can manage insects very

1094
00:32:39,630 --> 00:32:40,839
effectively. by managing this.

1095
00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:43,819
So I talked about boron and its

1096
00:32:43,819 --> 00:32:45,920
impact on BRICS readings because

1097
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,720
of

1098
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,799
how this translates to this

1099
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:50,640
conversation about managing

1100
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,819
diseases on the leaf surface.

1101
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:53,859
So we

1102
00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:56,920
have to start thinking about the

1103
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,859
microbiome on the leaf surface

1104
00:32:58,859 --> 00:33:00,690
much the same way and

1105
00:33:00,690 --> 00:33:02,029
functioning in much the same way

1106
00:33:02,029 --> 00:33:03,529
as the microbiome in the soil.

1107
00:33:04,049 --> 00:33:05,289
And what do the microbes on the

1108
00:33:05,289 --> 00:33:06,089
leaf surface need?

1109
00:33:06,490 --> 00:33:07,549
They need a food source.

1110
00:33:08,029 --> 00:33:08,829
They need sugar.

1111
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:10,410
and they get sugars,

1112
00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:12,220
mostly,

1113
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:13,460
when plants have higher Brix

1114
00:33:13,460 --> 00:33:14,640
readings. When you have an

1115
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:15,619
elevated Brix reading,

1116
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,500
as a reflection,

1117
00:33:17,819 --> 00:33:18,619
I'll say,

1118
00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:20,960
of an elevated boron content,

1119
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:22,750
you get much more sugar

1120
00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:24,670
being transmitted to the

1121
00:33:24,670 --> 00:33:25,710
microbial community on the leaf

1122
00:33:25,710 --> 00:33:27,230
surface, and therefore you get a

1123
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:28,589
much larger microbial community

1124
00:33:28,589 --> 00:33:29,389
on the leaf surface.

1125
00:33:29,890 --> 00:33:30,750
And I was having this

1126
00:33:30,750 --> 00:33:31,650
interesting conversation

1127
00:33:31,650 --> 00:33:33,549
yesterday with a microbiome

1128
00:33:34,210 --> 00:33:37,509
researcher who said something to

1129
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:38,309
the effect of,

1130
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:39,769
when you provide an abundant

1131
00:33:39,769 --> 00:33:40,930
food source, the good guys

1132
00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:41,730
always win.

1133
00:33:44,359 --> 00:33:45,740
And I found that fasting, I

1134
00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:46,660
hadn't thought of it in quite

1135
00:33:46,660 --> 00:33:47,940
those terms, but I found that to

1136
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:48,740
be generally true.

1137
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,220
When you provide an abundant

1138
00:33:50,220 --> 00:33:51,019
food source,

1139
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,400
the good guys always win.

1140
00:33:53,369 --> 00:33:54,169
So

1141
00:33:54,299 --> 00:33:55,519
this

1142
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,259
leads me to,

1143
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,940
I can't not have a conversation

1144
00:34:00,940 --> 00:34:02,400
about pinyon in this context

1145
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,819
because the setup is just too

1146
00:34:03,819 --> 00:34:04,619
good.

1147
00:34:05,089 --> 00:34:06,569
So this,

1148
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,579
15 years ago, I got to work on a

1149
00:34:12,579 --> 00:34:13,380
project

1150
00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:15,300
where I wanted to develop

1151
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:16,940
a

1152
00:34:17,730 --> 00:34:20,300
biocontrol product that

1153
00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:22,469
had an effect

1154
00:34:23,050 --> 00:34:26,190
on the plant microbiome and

1155
00:34:26,190 --> 00:34:26,990
would produce

1156
00:34:26,829 --> 00:34:30,289
systemic

1157
00:34:30,539 --> 00:34:31,639
disease

1158
00:34:32,369 --> 00:34:34,489
resistance as a reflection of

1159
00:34:34,489 --> 00:34:36,110
changing or improving the

1160
00:34:36,110 --> 00:34:37,369
overall plant microbiome.

1161
00:34:37,630 --> 00:34:38,949
I had a lot of fun with that

1162
00:34:38,949 --> 00:34:39,750
project.

1163
00:34:39,690 --> 00:34:40,969
Other things became a priority.

1164
00:34:41,130 --> 00:34:42,389
It ended up sitting on the shelf

1165
00:34:42,389 --> 00:34:43,349
for over a decade.

1166
00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:45,860
Two years ago we started working

1167
00:34:45,860 --> 00:34:47,260
on that project again

1168
00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:48,910
and

1169
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,960
we did some preliminary testing

1170
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,360
in the 2024 growing season that

1171
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,800
kind of

1172
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:57,100
really

1173
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:58,719
blew my mind,

1174
00:34:59,099 --> 00:35:00,599
exceeded my expectations by

1175
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:01,400
quite some distance.

1176
00:35:01,420 --> 00:35:03,139
And I'll tell you, one of the

1177
00:35:03,139 --> 00:35:06,380
very first crops that we

1178
00:35:06,380 --> 00:35:08,519
applied it on was a newly

1179
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:09,780
planted vineyard in Virginia.

1180
00:35:10,579 --> 00:35:11,559
So these were year -old

1181
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:12,360
seedlings,

1182
00:35:13,909 --> 00:35:14,710
and actually,

1183
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:16,580
I shouldn't say year -old

1184
00:35:16,539 --> 00:35:17,539
seedlings. This was the first

1185
00:35:17,539 --> 00:35:19,300
leaf, first year after they had

1186
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:20,440
been planted, their first

1187
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:21,240
growing season.

1188
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,400
And there had been a six -week

1189
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,659
period on this operation.

1190
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,000
It was about 130 acres or so of

1191
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,940
newly planted vines.

1192
00:35:30,340 --> 00:35:31,619
They had a six -week period of

1193
00:35:31,619 --> 00:35:33,059
continuous rainfall, high

1194
00:35:33,059 --> 00:35:34,159
humidity, cloud cover,

1195
00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:36,440
and powdery mildew and downy

1196
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,360
mildew was just decimating the

1197
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,160
plants.

1198
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,739
So we put on an application of

1199
00:35:41,739 --> 00:35:42,679
this product. It was a test

1200
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:43,480
product at the time.

1201
00:35:43,380 --> 00:35:44,180
It's now the product that we

1202
00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:44,960
call Pinion.

1203
00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:47,199
Put on one foliar application at

1204
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:48,119
an application rate of two

1205
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:48,920
quarts per acre,

1206
00:35:49,059 --> 00:35:51,440
and the disease stopped in its

1207
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,860
tracks. It just, there was a,

1208
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:54,960
it was a hard break point.

1209
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,619
And if you're familiar with

1210
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,059
downy mildew, it can cause, once

1211
00:36:03,590 --> 00:36:04,849
an infection, even when an

1212
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:06,190
infection has stopped, if it's

1213
00:36:06,190 --> 00:36:07,829
already established itself and

1214
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:08,630
colonized,

1215
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:10,710
it will cause that part of the

1216
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:11,929
leaf that it infected to die

1217
00:36:11,929 --> 00:36:13,090
out, to turn brown, to break

1218
00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:14,150
out. And so what ended up

1219
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:16,570
happening is these plants ended

1220
00:36:16,570 --> 00:36:19,489
up losing over 80 % of their

1221
00:36:19,489 --> 00:36:21,710
leaf surface area, because all

1222
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:23,409
of these infected spots dropped

1223
00:36:23,409 --> 00:36:24,530
down, the leaves were very

1224
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:25,330
skeletonized.

1225
00:36:25,969 --> 00:36:28,190
So with that one application,

1226
00:36:29,630 --> 00:36:31,219
I found that the end of that

1227
00:36:31,219 --> 00:36:32,400
growing season, another two

1228
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,719
months or so later, these plants

1229
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,159
had anywhere from four to six

1230
00:36:36,159 --> 00:36:37,500
feet of new vine growth,

1231
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:40,139
but it wasn't the quantity of

1232
00:36:40,139 --> 00:36:41,159
vine growth that

1233
00:36:41,530 --> 00:36:42,330
was impressive.

1234
00:36:42,389 --> 00:36:43,670
That was impressive, but what

1235
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:44,869
was exceptionally impressive and

1236
00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:46,250
what really caught my attention

1237
00:36:46,250 --> 00:36:48,650
was that all of these leaves had

1238
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:49,670
this thick,

1239
00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:50,890
glossy,

1240
00:36:50,829 --> 00:36:52,730
waxy sheen on the leaf surface.

1241
00:36:52,969 --> 00:36:54,269
They hadn't had it before that,

1242
00:36:54,489 --> 00:36:55,590
and they had it after that

1243
00:36:55,590 --> 00:36:56,710
application and going forward,

1244
00:36:57,989 --> 00:37:00,590
So this was only one

1245
00:37:00,590 --> 00:37:02,610
application, one spot at a time,

1246
00:37:02,889 --> 00:37:05,409
and it protected that plant for

1247
00:37:05,409 --> 00:37:06,489
the rest of the growing season.

1248
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:09,039
That really caught my attention.

1249
00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:12,039
So as of this point, I'll just

1250
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:13,159
flash forward to today.

1251
00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:15,019
We've now also tested it

1252
00:37:15,019 --> 00:37:17,239
extensively in 2025 growing

1253
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,940
season. It's now registered as a

1254
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:22,340
class 25B biocontrol product for

1255
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:24,239
disease and for both bacterial

1256
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:25,840
and fungal control in about, I

1257
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:26,640
think it's currently registered

1258
00:37:26,579 --> 00:37:27,780
in about 30 states and the rest

1259
00:37:27,780 --> 00:37:28,580
are in progress.

1260
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,639
As of this point, we've tested

1261
00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:33,739
it on close to three dozen

1262
00:37:33,739 --> 00:37:35,340
different disease and crop

1263
00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:37,000
combinations, both a few

1264
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,320
bacterial diseases, but mostly

1265
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:39,120
fungal diseases.

1266
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:40,980
And it has outperformed

1267
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:42,539
conventional fungicides in every

1268
00:37:42,539 --> 00:37:43,340
application,

1269
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:44,579
every time that it's been tried.

1270
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,219
And in

1271
00:37:47,139 --> 00:37:48,820
most of the applications, not

1272
00:37:48,820 --> 00:37:49,620
all, but in most of the

1273
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:50,400
applications,

1274
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,920
there was one or two

1275
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,139
applications made at the

1276
00:37:54,139 --> 00:37:54,940
beginning of disease

1277
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:56,119
susceptibility period, and it

1278
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:57,460
lasted for the rest of the

1279
00:37:57,460 --> 00:37:58,260
growing season.

1280
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,320
I'm pretty excited about that.

1281
00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:01,950
So

1282
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,280
I want to talk about pinion,

1283
00:38:03,539 --> 00:38:04,340
just

1284
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:06,619
its effectiveness.

1285
00:38:07,219 --> 00:38:09,559
There are three different macro

1286
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:10,460
modes of action.

1287
00:38:11,769 --> 00:38:14,469
The first is that it has a very

1288
00:38:14,469 --> 00:38:15,750
strong reducing effect.

1289
00:38:15,889 --> 00:38:16,869
So if you're familiar with,

1290
00:38:17,420 --> 00:38:18,880
I've spoken in the past about

1291
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,320
Olivier Hussain's research and

1292
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,159
the paper that we published

1293
00:38:21,159 --> 00:38:22,840
where we spoke about the EHPH

1294
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,000
terrain requirements of a

1295
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:26,500
to express itself.

1296
00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:28,739
The short version is that a

1297
00:38:28,739 --> 00:38:30,219
foliar application opinion has a

1298
00:38:30,219 --> 00:38:32,719
very strong reducing effect that

1299
00:38:33,179 --> 00:38:34,719
very rapidly creates an

1300
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:35,900
environment in which pathogens

1301
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:37,000
can't express themselves.

1302
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:39,800
So in terms of having a rapid,

1303
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:40,800
immediate effect,

1304
00:38:41,179 --> 00:38:42,079
that is where that effect is

1305
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:43,079
coming from. But the reality is

1306
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:44,119
also that that effect doesn't

1307
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:44,920
last very long.

1308
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:46,599
Depends on how much oxidative

1309
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:47,780
stress plants are under, but

1310
00:38:47,780 --> 00:38:48,980
that effect can last for as

1311
00:38:48,980 --> 00:38:50,199
little as 24 to 48 hours and

1312
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:51,000
then it's gone.

1313
00:38:53,610 --> 00:38:56,050
The second effect is that

1314
00:38:59,369 --> 00:39:01,409
pinion stimulates.

1315
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:02,909
It's not a food source.

1316
00:39:03,050 --> 00:39:04,190
It doesn't provide sugars,

1317
00:39:04,389 --> 00:39:05,409
doesn't provide carbon,

1318
00:39:05,929 --> 00:39:07,650
or if it does, it's incidental.

1319
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:10,989
but it stimulates the microbiome

1320
00:39:10,989 --> 00:39:12,610
on the leaf surface to a

1321
00:39:12,610 --> 00:39:13,670
remarkable degree.

1322
00:39:13,929 --> 00:39:15,130
It's one of the most powerful

1323
00:39:15,130 --> 00:39:16,349
biostimulants that I've ever

1324
00:39:16,349 --> 00:39:17,969
observed. And I've tested many

1325
00:39:17,969 --> 00:39:18,829
over the years.

1326
00:39:19,570 --> 00:39:21,250
And so the microbiome on the

1327
00:39:21,250 --> 00:39:22,719
leaf surface changes

1328
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,300
dramatically. And as nearly as

1329
00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:26,480
we can tell after this two years

1330
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:27,679
of collecting data,

1331
00:39:28,250 --> 00:39:30,869
it stays changed for the rest of

1332
00:39:30,869 --> 00:39:31,670
the growing season.

1333
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:33,219
And in the case of perennial

1334
00:39:33,219 --> 00:39:34,599
crops, even into the following

1335
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:35,400
season.

1336
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:38,900
The third effect that it has,

1337
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,800
and this was one I was really

1338
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,179
intrigued by this observation on

1339
00:39:42,179 --> 00:39:43,420
the grapevines,

1340
00:39:45,730 --> 00:39:48,809
it activates a number of

1341
00:39:49,179 --> 00:39:50,480
genetic immune pathways.

1342
00:39:50,699 --> 00:39:52,460
So we have mRNA activation.

1343
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,460
This is an area that we still

1344
00:39:55,460 --> 00:39:56,940
need to do a lot more research

1345
00:39:56,940 --> 00:39:57,860
about. It's the area that we

1346
00:39:57,860 --> 00:39:58,739
know the least about.

1347
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,760
But our

1348
00:40:01,289 --> 00:40:03,269
current understanding is that we

1349
00:40:03,269 --> 00:40:04,070
are activating

1350
00:40:04,530 --> 00:40:06,269
close to two dozen different

1351
00:40:06,269 --> 00:40:07,969
immune pathways, genetic

1352
00:40:07,969 --> 00:40:08,769
pathways,

1353
00:40:08,969 --> 00:40:10,210
and so this plant's immune

1354
00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:12,190
system just comes alive and

1355
00:40:12,599 --> 00:40:14,320
stays turned on.

1356
00:40:15,289 --> 00:40:16,190
This is the important piece.

1357
00:40:16,269 --> 00:40:17,789
So what we see happening, what

1358
00:40:17,789 --> 00:40:19,010
we saw happening with these

1359
00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:21,460
grapevines

1360
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:25,449
is one application,

1361
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,340
after the disease had been

1362
00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:28,219
present for a while,

1363
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:29,820
triggered all of this new

1364
00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:31,239
growth, and this new growth had

1365
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:32,199
completely different

1366
00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:33,280
characteristics from the

1367
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,219
previous growth.

1368
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,380
And that is an expression of a

1369
00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:37,780
change in genetic expression.

1370
00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:39,699
there was a change in genetic

1371
00:40:39,699 --> 00:40:41,179
expression as a result of immune

1372
00:40:41,179 --> 00:40:42,320
function being turned on and

1373
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:43,760
having this glossy,

1374
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:46,260
waxy surface on the leaves and a

1375
00:40:46,260 --> 00:40:48,079
completely different leaf

1376
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:49,739
morphology, much more clearly

1377
00:40:49,739 --> 00:40:51,559
defined leaf edge

1378
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:53,000
characteristics and leaf

1379
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:53,800
serration.

1380
00:40:54,219 --> 00:40:56,659
So there were significant

1381
00:40:56,659 --> 00:40:58,340
changes in genetic expression of

1382
00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:00,500
that plant as a result of,

1383
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,760
in part, I believe, of the

1384
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,840
microbiome improvement.

1385
00:41:05,260 --> 00:41:06,060
Now,

1386
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,340
if you think about what I just

1387
00:41:07,340 --> 00:41:08,880
said, those three different

1388
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,059
modes of action, there's a very

1389
00:41:10,059 --> 00:41:10,940
important point here.

1390
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:14,570
I am just

1391
00:41:15,070 --> 00:41:16,590
blown away, impressed with the

1392
00:41:16,590 --> 00:41:17,610
results that we've gotten from

1393
00:41:17,610 --> 00:41:18,410
Pinion so far.

1394
00:41:18,750 --> 00:41:20,369
If those level of results

1395
00:41:20,369 --> 00:41:21,690
continue into the future,

1396
00:41:22,389 --> 00:41:23,449
This is a product that can

1397
00:41:23,449 --> 00:41:24,849
replace 90 percent of fungicide

1398
00:41:24,849 --> 00:41:25,650
applications,

1399
00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:27,469
which is a very big deal because

1400
00:41:27,469 --> 00:41:29,849
fungicide applications in

1401
00:41:29,849 --> 00:41:31,389
contemporary agriculture are one

1402
00:41:31,389 --> 00:41:32,489
of the significant limiting

1403
00:41:32,489 --> 00:41:33,349
factors that are really

1404
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:34,650
suppressing soil biology and

1405
00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:35,670
preventing systems from turning

1406
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:36,889
around. So I'm very excited

1407
00:41:36,889 --> 00:41:37,929
about it from that perspective.

1408
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:39,130
However,

1409
00:41:39,510 --> 00:41:40,610
we already know

1410
00:41:41,179 --> 00:41:41,980
that

1411
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:44,110
all of the all of the modes of

1412
00:41:44,110 --> 00:41:46,070
action that I described are all

1413
00:41:46,070 --> 00:41:47,349
biological in nature,

1414
00:41:48,570 --> 00:41:50,269
which means your mileage will

1415
00:41:50,269 --> 00:41:51,070
vary.

1416
00:41:53,389 --> 00:41:54,690
Your mileage is going to vary.

1417
00:41:55,070 --> 00:41:56,130
If you have

1418
00:41:56,590 --> 00:41:58,289
different ecosystems with

1419
00:41:58,289 --> 00:41:59,650
different microbiomes and some

1420
00:41:59,650 --> 00:42:00,909
microbiomes that are much more

1421
00:42:00,909 --> 00:42:02,550
suppressed and soil microbiomes

1422
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:03,530
that are very suppressed, you're

1423
00:42:03,530 --> 00:42:04,829
going to get a different

1424
00:42:04,829 --> 00:42:05,630
response.

1425
00:42:05,889 --> 00:42:08,190
So on some farms where one or

1426
00:42:08,190 --> 00:42:09,349
two applications might be

1427
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:10,510
required for effective disease

1428
00:42:10,510 --> 00:42:11,310
control,

1429
00:42:11,250 --> 00:42:12,690
another operation might require

1430
00:42:12,690 --> 00:42:14,349
eight applications in the first

1431
00:42:14,349 --> 00:42:15,150
season.

1432
00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:16,510
I'm just making this up.

1433
00:42:17,489 --> 00:42:19,250
I'm just pointing this out to

1434
00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:20,409
say that there's a great deal

1435
00:42:20,409 --> 00:42:22,510
that we don't know about this

1436
00:42:22,510 --> 00:42:23,310
product.

1437
00:42:23,889 --> 00:42:25,150
What we do know is that it's

1438
00:42:25,150 --> 00:42:26,349
extremely impressive and very

1439
00:42:26,349 --> 00:42:27,150
exciting.

1440
00:42:27,210 --> 00:42:28,010
So I

1441
00:42:28,769 --> 00:42:29,630
wanted to talk about that

1442
00:42:29,630 --> 00:42:32,309
because I believe at

1443
00:42:34,030 --> 00:42:35,250
the foundation,

1444
00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:38,170
when we look at developing

1445
00:42:38,170 --> 00:42:38,970
agronomy,

1446
00:42:40,269 --> 00:42:41,809
From a biological perspective,

1447
00:42:42,190 --> 00:42:43,889
we need to have healthy,

1448
00:42:44,289 --> 00:42:45,429
vigorous, abundant soil

1449
00:42:45,429 --> 00:42:46,230
microbiomes.

1450
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:47,810
And the

1451
00:42:48,849 --> 00:42:50,530
two greatest limiting factors

1452
00:42:50,530 --> 00:42:51,330
to,

1453
00:42:51,289 --> 00:42:52,150
what do you think are the two

1454
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:53,130
greatest limiting factors to

1455
00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:54,670
soil biology generally on most

1456
00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:55,470
operations?

1457
00:42:55,739 --> 00:42:56,539
It's not tillage.

1458
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,880
It's bare soil exposed to

1459
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:00,680
sunlight

1460
00:43:01,050 --> 00:43:02,469
and fungicide applications.

1461
00:43:04,130 --> 00:43:04,930
Those two,

1462
00:43:05,889 --> 00:43:07,949
as far as I can determine from a

1463
00:43:07,949 --> 00:43:08,829
lot of experience and

1464
00:43:08,829 --> 00:43:09,909
observation and some data

1465
00:43:09,909 --> 00:43:10,710
collection,

1466
00:43:10,730 --> 00:43:12,070
those two have the most

1467
00:43:12,070 --> 00:43:13,369
detrimental effect on the soil

1468
00:43:13,369 --> 00:43:14,170
microbiome.

1469
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,019
And having

1470
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:19,420
bare soil exposed to the sun is

1471
00:43:19,420 --> 00:43:20,539
something that we can change

1472
00:43:20,539 --> 00:43:21,340
with

1473
00:43:21,329 --> 00:43:23,570
cover crop management, keeping

1474
00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:24,829
the soil covered and so forth.

1475
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:27,670
But fungicide applications in a

1476
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:28,489
transition period,

1477
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:30,820
getting an effective replacement

1478
00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:31,739
alternative for fungicide

1479
00:43:31,739 --> 00:43:33,199
applications is a very important

1480
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:34,840
piece. And so I'm quite excited

1481
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,179
about the potential opinion.

1482
00:43:38,019 --> 00:43:38,940
So that's

1483
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:40,710
a very long answer to your

1484
00:43:40,710 --> 00:43:41,510
question, Helen.

1485
00:43:42,030 --> 00:43:44,849
But it ties into your question

1486
00:43:44,849 --> 00:43:47,119
about the importance of mineral

1487
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:48,280
applications because

1488
00:43:49,250 --> 00:43:51,170
The mineral foliar applications,

1489
00:43:51,650 --> 00:43:52,909
whether they be boron or

1490
00:43:52,909 --> 00:43:54,489
manganese or other elements,

1491
00:43:56,429 --> 00:43:57,730
one of the pieces that I've

1492
00:43:57,730 --> 00:43:58,789
found foundational over the

1493
00:43:58,789 --> 00:44:00,130
years is that in order for a

1494
00:44:00,130 --> 00:44:01,070
foliar application to be

1495
00:44:01,070 --> 00:44:02,670
effective at disease control,

1496
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:04,469
it needs to be optimized or

1497
00:44:04,469 --> 00:44:05,750
needs to be balanced to increase

1498
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:06,550
photosynthesis.

1499
00:44:07,150 --> 00:44:07,950
You do that

1500
00:44:08,099 --> 00:44:09,840
and the game changes.

1501
00:44:10,969 --> 00:44:12,230
And that's where so often the

1502
00:44:12,230 --> 00:44:13,030
boat is missed.

1503
00:44:13,489 --> 00:44:14,789
And so I'll just, I'll come back

1504
00:44:14,789 --> 00:44:15,590
again.

1505
00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:18,860
If there's two things that I

1506
00:44:18,860 --> 00:44:19,739
hope everyone does

1507
00:44:20,050 --> 00:44:21,349
following this conference,

1508
00:44:23,019 --> 00:44:24,300
I hope everyone increases their

1509
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:25,100
boron levels,

1510
00:44:25,539 --> 00:44:26,480
and I hope everyone tries

1511
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,280
pinion.

1512
00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:30,580
Because

1513
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,039
I think those are the two

1514
00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:33,099
foundational pieces

1515
00:44:33,699 --> 00:44:34,579
two of the foundational pieces

1516
00:44:34,579 --> 00:44:35,639
that I've observed in the last

1517
00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:37,519
year to make significant changes

1518
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:39,480
in how a crop responds and how a

1519
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,280
crop performs.

1520
00:44:40,739 --> 00:44:42,840
And just to go back again and to

1521
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,640
reiterate,

1522
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,559
when we're looking at soil

1523
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:47,360
analysis,

1524
00:44:48,269 --> 00:44:50,690
our desired levels of boron are

1525
00:44:50,690 --> 00:44:52,210
a minimum of three parts per

1526
00:44:52,210 --> 00:44:54,550
million and up to six to 10

1527
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:55,350
parts per million.

1528
00:44:56,179 --> 00:44:56,980
And that is

1529
00:44:58,150 --> 00:45:00,369
five to 10 times higher than

1530
00:45:00,750 --> 00:45:01,570
most other common

1531
00:45:01,570 --> 00:45:02,370
recommendations.

1532
00:45:02,730 --> 00:45:03,989
But that is the threshold

1533
00:45:03,989 --> 00:45:04,789
required

1534
00:45:05,179 --> 00:45:06,739
For insect resistance, that's

1535
00:45:06,739 --> 00:45:08,039
the threshold required for high

1536
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:09,360
BRX readings and high sugar

1537
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,160
levels.

1538
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:12,360
And that's also the threshold

1539
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,880
where we see peak yield response

1540
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,260
as a result of better calcium

1541
00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:16,060
metabolism.

1542
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:18,160
All right.

1543
00:45:18,230 --> 00:45:19,030
Yes.

1544
00:45:18,869 --> 00:45:19,969
Could I give an example of

1545
00:45:19,969 --> 00:45:20,769
annual crop

1546
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:22,780
things that you're seeing with

1547
00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:23,580
any?

1548
00:45:23,949 --> 00:45:24,750
Could I give an example?

1549
00:45:24,789 --> 00:45:25,690
You're referring to pinyon?

1550
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:27,710
Could I give an example of

1551
00:45:27,710 --> 00:45:30,030
annual crops where we've tested?

1552
00:45:30,349 --> 00:45:31,150
Well, it's been,

1553
00:45:31,539 --> 00:45:33,480
we've tested it on onions, on

1554
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,679
cantaloupe, on tomatoes.

1555
00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:37,179
Tomatoes we tested it on early

1556
00:45:37,179 --> 00:45:38,139
blight, septoria.

1557
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,239
Cercospora leaf spot

1558
00:45:40,619 --> 00:45:41,780
the

1559
00:45:42,219 --> 00:45:43,860
list it's quite an extensive

1560
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:46,250
list at this point and

1561
00:45:46,940 --> 00:45:48,219
We

1562
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:50,630
had one application on

1563
00:45:51,070 --> 00:45:53,349
Downy and powdery mildew on a

1564
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:54,170
cantaloupe crop

1565
00:45:54,539 --> 00:45:55,340
that

1566
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,380
The grower reported back that

1567
00:45:59,070 --> 00:46:01,349
his words were that it wasn't

1568
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:02,170
really successful,

1569
00:46:02,670 --> 00:46:04,570
but it wasn't not successful

1570
00:46:04,570 --> 00:46:05,980
because of the product, it's

1571
00:46:05,980 --> 00:46:07,199
because it was applied too late

1572
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:08,000
and the plants had already

1573
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,739
declined too far.

1574
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,980
We had one application on

1575
00:46:12,980 --> 00:46:14,260
cherries. Actually, this is an

1576
00:46:14,260 --> 00:46:15,060
important point.

1577
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,420
I'm glad we're having this

1578
00:46:16,420 --> 00:46:17,220
discussion.

1579
00:46:17,159 --> 00:46:18,960
We had one application, it was a

1580
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,619
repeat application in cherries

1581
00:46:20,619 --> 00:46:23,679
in Utah that was less

1582
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:24,719
successful than many of the

1583
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:25,760
other applications we saw.

1584
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:26,640
We still had,

1585
00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:28,219
A three times application,

1586
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:30,099
this was very severe, very

1587
00:46:30,099 --> 00:46:31,280
intense powdery mildew pressure.

1588
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,619
Three applications of pinion

1589
00:46:33,929 --> 00:46:36,110
at the conclusion of the trial

1590
00:46:36,110 --> 00:46:38,969
had 5 % less powdery mildew than

1591
00:46:38,969 --> 00:46:40,150
five applications of a

1592
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:41,530
fungicide. So I still thought

1593
00:46:41,530 --> 00:46:44,190
that was some level of success.

1594
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:45,840
But the reason for the more

1595
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:46,640
limited success,

1596
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:48,260
we believe,

1597
00:46:48,820 --> 00:46:52,110
is because we found out halfway

1598
00:46:52,110 --> 00:46:53,230
through the trial, the treatment

1599
00:46:53,230 --> 00:46:54,170
or more than halfway through,

1600
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:55,700
that

1601
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,380
the product was being tank mixed

1602
00:46:57,380 --> 00:46:58,239
with elemental sulfur,

1603
00:46:58,639 --> 00:46:59,440
powdered sulfur.

1604
00:46:59,849 --> 00:47:00,650
And so

1605
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:02,460
one of the mechanisms or the

1606
00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:03,679
modes of action of

1607
00:47:04,019 --> 00:47:05,539
that initial 24 to 48 hour

1608
00:47:05,539 --> 00:47:06,659
strong burst is to have a very

1609
00:47:06,659 --> 00:47:07,719
strong reducing effect.

1610
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:09,920
And you destroy that if you tank

1611
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,579
mix it with an oxidizer, which

1612
00:47:11,579 --> 00:47:12,380
is elemental sulfur.

1613
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:14,080
So

1614
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:15,150
yeah,

1615
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:17,610
we're still learning about it,

1616
00:47:17,980 --> 00:47:18,780
but quite excited.

1617
00:47:18,699 --> 00:47:19,500
You had a question as well?

1618
00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:20,480
Yeah,

1619
00:47:20,250 --> 00:47:21,369
what's your experience?

1620
00:47:38,289 --> 00:47:39,550
That's about five questions in

1621
00:47:39,550 --> 00:47:40,350
one.

1622
00:47:42,260 --> 00:47:44,559
So the question was, do I have a

1623
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:46,380
perspective or opinion on

1624
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:50,650
natural

1625
00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:54,130
on -farm microbial brew

1626
00:47:54,130 --> 00:47:55,769
development such as JADAM or

1627
00:47:55,769 --> 00:47:57,230
Corian farming or those

1628
00:47:57,230 --> 00:47:58,030
approaches

1629
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,860
and you're

1630
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:01,300
another question about calcium

1631
00:48:01,300 --> 00:48:02,360
and phosphorus, foliar versus

1632
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,160
soil.

1633
00:48:10,110 --> 00:48:11,190
All right, so the

1634
00:48:12,010 --> 00:48:12,810
caveat here,

1635
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:15,560
I do not have,

1636
00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:17,530
I have very limited experiences

1637
00:48:17,530 --> 00:48:18,349
with

1638
00:48:19,039 --> 00:48:21,599
those types of extractions for

1639
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:24,579
the very simple reason that many

1640
00:48:24,579 --> 00:48:26,039
of the farmers that we work with

1641
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:27,699
and where we do a lot of data

1642
00:48:27,699 --> 00:48:28,920
collection on what is actually

1643
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,139
happening, what's going on,

1644
00:48:30,369 --> 00:48:31,909
don't have the bandwidth or

1645
00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:33,220
the labor resources.

1646
00:48:33,340 --> 00:48:34,360
Labor is too expensive for them

1647
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:35,260
to create their own.

1648
00:48:36,139 --> 00:48:36,940
And so,

1649
00:48:37,170 --> 00:48:37,970
I don't have a lot of

1650
00:48:37,969 --> 00:48:38,769
experience.

1651
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,500
What I know about those types of

1652
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:44,000
extractions and microbial

1653
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:44,800
products, I

1654
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:47,010
expect that they have the

1655
00:48:47,010 --> 00:48:47,810
ability for,

1656
00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:50,190
they have the capacity to be

1657
00:48:50,190 --> 00:48:50,990
very valuable.

1658
00:48:53,230 --> 00:48:54,460
There are,

1659
00:48:59,269 --> 00:49:00,130
I first

1660
00:49:01,909 --> 00:49:05,170
became aware of the weakness of

1661
00:49:07,340 --> 00:49:10,340
producing on -farm microbes

1662
00:49:10,340 --> 00:49:12,579
from the perspective of compost

1663
00:49:13,579 --> 00:49:14,960
compost tea extracts and so

1664
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,159
forth from the respective of

1665
00:49:16,159 --> 00:49:18,400
mycorrhizal fungi, because there

1666
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:19,200
are many growers who are saying,

1667
00:49:19,219 --> 00:49:20,019
oh, well,

1668
00:49:20,789 --> 00:49:21,829
I'm using compost tea.

1669
00:49:22,460 --> 00:49:23,559
I'm making my own compost tea.

1670
00:49:23,659 --> 00:49:24,619
It's very high quality compost.

1671
00:49:24,780 --> 00:49:26,440
And therefore, this is the most

1672
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:27,539
comprehensive, the most

1673
00:49:27,539 --> 00:49:28,619
complete, the most thorough

1674
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,000
microbiome. We're getting much

1675
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,159
greater benefits because we have

1676
00:49:32,159 --> 00:49:33,059
a much greater diversity of

1677
00:49:33,059 --> 00:49:34,099
species than if we're purchasing

1678
00:49:34,099 --> 00:49:35,840
an oculant with 20 different

1679
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:36,640
species in it.

1680
00:49:37,699 --> 00:49:38,599
And that

1681
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:40,100
is not true.

1682
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,699
The diversity of species is

1683
00:49:43,699 --> 00:49:44,500
true.

1684
00:49:46,389 --> 00:49:48,610
I'm of the persuasion that no

1685
00:49:48,610 --> 00:49:49,730
compost,

1686
00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:51,010
tea extract,

1687
00:49:51,329 --> 00:49:53,489
or other types of on -farm brood

1688
00:49:53,489 --> 00:49:54,630
microbe extracts

1689
00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:56,789
be complete in the sense that

1690
00:49:56,789 --> 00:49:57,590
plant needs it.

1691
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:00,460
For the very simple reason that,

1692
00:50:01,739 --> 00:50:03,760
and I need to, this data and

1693
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:04,800
information is changing all the

1694
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,429
time, but about a year or so

1695
00:50:07,429 --> 00:50:08,329
ago, maybe it was two years ago

1696
00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:09,130
at this point,

1697
00:50:09,489 --> 00:50:10,329
a very prestigious

1698
00:50:10,329 --> 00:50:12,489
microbiologist told me, John,

1699
00:50:13,159 --> 00:50:16,179
90 % of all the microbes in soil

1700
00:50:17,230 --> 00:50:19,429
can only be propagated in the

1701
00:50:19,429 --> 00:50:20,829
presence of living plant roots.

1702
00:50:21,869 --> 00:50:23,250
We cannot propagate them in the

1703
00:50:23,250 --> 00:50:24,050
lab,

1704
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:25,460
We can't propagate them in a

1705
00:50:25,460 --> 00:50:26,880
compost pile. You can't

1706
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,000
propagate them in any other type

1707
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:28,800
of environment.

1708
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:30,460
They can only be propagated in

1709
00:50:30,460 --> 00:50:32,019
the presence of living plant

1710
00:50:32,019 --> 00:50:32,820
roots.

1711
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,039
So I would suggest that if we

1712
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:37,840
want to do on -farm microbial

1713
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,699
inoculant development,

1714
00:50:39,889 --> 00:50:42,349
let's use compost tea extract as

1715
00:50:42,349 --> 00:50:43,309
an example. If we're using

1716
00:50:43,309 --> 00:50:44,469
Johnson Sue compost,

1717
00:50:44,909 --> 00:50:45,750
the number of the persuasion

1718
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:47,210
that the next stage,

1719
00:50:47,699 --> 00:50:49,239
either at the conclusion or the

1720
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:50,539
latter part of that Johnson Sue

1721
00:50:50,539 --> 00:50:51,360
compost development,

1722
00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:54,019
we should plant

1723
00:50:54,949 --> 00:50:56,590
plants from dozens of different

1724
00:50:56,590 --> 00:50:58,690
plant families into that mix

1725
00:50:59,289 --> 00:51:02,170
and grow large vigorous root

1726
00:51:02,170 --> 00:51:04,269
systems and colonize that entire

1727
00:51:04,269 --> 00:51:05,750
compost with the diversity of

1728
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:07,769
microbes that are coming from

1729
00:51:07,769 --> 00:51:08,730
those root systems.

1730
00:51:08,730 --> 00:51:10,230
And then we can propagate

1731
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:11,610
mycorrhizal fungi and we can

1732
00:51:11,610 --> 00:51:12,630
propagate all of these other

1733
00:51:12,630 --> 00:51:13,849
organisms that are vectored by

1734
00:51:13,849 --> 00:51:15,610
the seeds that don't show up in

1735
00:51:15,610 --> 00:51:16,750
the compost pile on its own.

1736
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:18,960
Or you can keep life simple and

1737
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:19,760
buy BioCoat Gold.

1738
00:51:22,139 --> 00:51:22,940
So

1739
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:24,280
that's

1740
00:51:24,679 --> 00:51:27,199
my kind of macro theoretical

1741
00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:28,000
answer.

1742
00:51:28,139 --> 00:51:29,619
but I don't have experience with

1743
00:51:29,619 --> 00:51:31,199
JADAM specifically on scale.

1744
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:34,250
And to your second question

1745
00:51:34,940 --> 00:51:36,940
on foliar applications of

1746
00:51:36,940 --> 00:51:38,260
vinegar -extracted phosphorus

1747
00:51:38,260 --> 00:51:39,060
and calcium,

1748
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:44,150
when

1749
00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:47,079
foliar applications are well

1750
00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:49,059
-designed and when soil and

1751
00:51:49,059 --> 00:51:50,119
plant ecosystems are well

1752
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:51,030
-designed, reasonably well,

1753
00:51:51,110 --> 00:51:52,349
there are many instances where

1754
00:51:52,349 --> 00:51:54,869
we put on a foliar application

1755
00:51:54,869 --> 00:51:56,210
of a nutrient and

1756
00:51:56,780 --> 00:51:58,219
we get a disproportionate

1757
00:51:58,219 --> 00:51:59,019
response.

1758
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,160
So

1759
00:51:59,699 --> 00:52:02,619
we put on, we might put on, I'm

1760
00:52:02,619 --> 00:52:03,420
making up

1761
00:52:03,780 --> 00:52:05,159
hypothetical examples here, we

1762
00:52:05,159 --> 00:52:07,940
might put on five ounces per

1763
00:52:07,940 --> 00:52:08,760
acre of calcium,

1764
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:11,210
but the quantity of calcium when

1765
00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:12,510
you combine the

1766
00:52:12,860 --> 00:52:14,119
increased plant growth,

1767
00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:15,420
increased plant biomass,

1768
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,519
with the increased calcium

1769
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:18,320
content,

1770
00:52:18,380 --> 00:52:19,860
the quantity of calcium that is

1771
00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:21,159
present in the crop is now a

1772
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:22,340
hundred X what you actually

1773
00:52:22,340 --> 00:52:23,140
applied.

1774
00:52:23,469 --> 00:52:25,780
And that is because if the

1775
00:52:25,780 --> 00:52:26,920
product applied is well

1776
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:27,720
designed,

1777
00:52:27,699 --> 00:52:29,300
it increases overall plant

1778
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:30,679
photosynthesis, it has a trigger

1779
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:31,480
effect,

1780
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:34,199
and the plant and the microbiome

1781
00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:35,619
is effective at extracting more

1782
00:52:35,619 --> 00:52:37,059
of that nutrient from the soil

1783
00:52:37,059 --> 00:52:38,260
profile, assuming that it's

1784
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:39,060
present and available.

1785
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:41,960
So from

1786
00:52:42,269 --> 00:52:43,710
that triggering perspective,

1787
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,659
Small applications of nutrients

1788
00:52:47,659 --> 00:52:49,019
as foliars can be very

1789
00:52:49,019 --> 00:52:49,820
effective.

1790
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,699
However, when the system is very

1791
00:52:52,699 --> 00:52:54,199
challenged, when we have very

1792
00:52:54,199 --> 00:52:55,760
poor soil biology, if we're at

1793
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,159
very early stages of a

1794
00:52:57,159 --> 00:52:58,119
turnaround situation,

1795
00:52:58,860 --> 00:53:01,599
often the quantity of nutrients

1796
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:03,599
that is required to produce a

1797
00:53:03,599 --> 00:53:05,760
crop response early is bigger

1798
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:06,980
than the quantity that's

1799
00:53:06,980 --> 00:53:07,780
required later.

1800
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:09,360
Does that make sense?

1801
00:53:10,619 --> 00:53:13,340
My one critique of the vinegar

1802
00:53:13,340 --> 00:53:14,659
extracts would be that the

1803
00:53:14,659 --> 00:53:16,500
quantity of nutrients contained

1804
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:18,039
is usually actually quite low.

1805
00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:20,420
And that might be much more

1806
00:53:20,420 --> 00:53:22,119
effective later on in the

1807
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:23,340
regeneration process than it

1808
00:53:23,340 --> 00:53:24,140
might be early on.

1809
00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:25,409
So that's it.

1810
00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:27,440
Any other questions?

1811
00:53:27,380 --> 00:53:28,180
Yes.

1812
00:53:31,650 --> 00:53:32,450
I

1813
00:53:32,210 --> 00:53:35,489
missed

1814
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:38,100
part of your question.

1815
00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:39,300
Have I found a way to decompact

1816
00:53:39,300 --> 00:53:40,579
soils without what?

1817
00:53:45,469 --> 00:53:46,269
Have

1818
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:51,159
I found a way to decompact soils

1819
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:53,239
without having a proper ratio of

1820
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:54,039
cations?

1821
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,219
Calcium, magnesium balance, and

1822
00:53:57,219 --> 00:53:58,019
so forth.

1823
00:54:00,420 --> 00:54:01,840
Yes, there is one way.

1824
00:54:03,570 --> 00:54:04,370
Two

1825
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:05,760
ways, actually,

1826
00:54:07,989 --> 00:54:08,889
that I'm aware of.

1827
00:54:09,289 --> 00:54:10,789
The one pathway

1828
00:54:11,780 --> 00:54:12,659
is

1829
00:54:13,539 --> 00:54:16,260
simply having and building very

1830
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:17,599
large quantities of organic

1831
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:18,400
matter.

1832
00:54:18,789 --> 00:54:20,389
So if you have, as you build up

1833
00:54:20,389 --> 00:54:21,429
organic matter to

1834
00:54:23,010 --> 00:54:24,909
levels and depends a bit on your

1835
00:54:24,909 --> 00:54:26,409
soil's clay context and clay

1836
00:54:26,409 --> 00:54:27,590
profile. I'm assuming you have

1837
00:54:27,590 --> 00:54:29,190
very high heavy clay soils.

1838
00:54:31,340 --> 00:54:32,500
High organic matter.

1839
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:36,219
What was the first part of your

1840
00:54:36,219 --> 00:54:37,019
question or

1841
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:38,519
first part of your response?

1842
00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:43,139
So it's a sandy loam to loam

1843
00:54:43,139 --> 00:54:44,099
soils. Well, why would you not

1844
00:54:44,099 --> 00:54:45,480
want to balance nutrients on a

1845
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:46,940
calcium to magnesium ratios on a

1846
00:54:46,940 --> 00:54:47,740
sandy loam soil?

1847
00:54:52,210 --> 00:54:53,289
What is your total CEC?

1848
00:54:56,909 --> 00:54:57,809
Okay, now hang on a minute.

1849
00:54:57,949 --> 00:54:59,130
Now you're grinding my gears

1850
00:54:59,130 --> 00:55:01,130
here. You have a sandy loam soil

1851
00:55:01,130 --> 00:55:02,469
with 25 to 30 CEC.

1852
00:55:02,650 --> 00:55:03,510
Those things are usually

1853
00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:04,349
mutually exclusive.

1854
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:06,410
Okay,

1855
00:55:07,150 --> 00:55:07,950
got it.

1856
00:55:08,869 --> 00:55:09,670
So

1857
00:55:12,190 --> 00:55:13,309
I was once on a soil,

1858
00:55:14,849 --> 00:55:16,590
saw a soil analysis that said 40

1859
00:55:16,590 --> 00:55:18,349
% base saturation magnesium, and

1860
00:55:18,349 --> 00:55:19,789
my comment was that, oh, this

1861
00:55:19,789 --> 00:55:20,909
soil must be very compact.

1862
00:55:21,030 --> 00:55:22,309
And the farmer said, I don't

1863
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:23,110
think so.

1864
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:25,360
And he had 12 % organic matter.

1865
00:55:30,420 --> 00:55:31,940
The other

1866
00:55:34,460 --> 00:55:35,699
observation that I've seen is

1867
00:55:35,699 --> 00:55:37,500
when we have soils that have

1868
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:39,059
very high and

1869
00:55:39,409 --> 00:55:41,800
very active mycorrhizal fungi

1870
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:42,600
activity.

1871
00:55:42,940 --> 00:55:44,239
And in the conversation with

1872
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:45,239
Gabe Brown yesterday,

1873
00:55:46,019 --> 00:55:48,500
in Rick Clark's session, we had

1874
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:49,300
an interesting,

1875
00:55:49,460 --> 00:55:50,800
Gabe raised a very interesting

1876
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,059
point, a very important point,

1877
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,460
that it's not

1878
00:55:54,769 --> 00:55:57,130
adequate for us, if we want to

1879
00:55:57,130 --> 00:55:58,190
talk about building soil

1880
00:55:58,190 --> 00:55:59,489
aggregate structure, it's not

1881
00:55:59,489 --> 00:56:01,489
enough to just look at total

1882
00:56:01,489 --> 00:56:02,849
fungal populations, we need to

1883
00:56:02,849 --> 00:56:03,650
understand

1884
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,480
what is our mycorrhizal fungi

1885
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,380
population versus our

1886
00:56:07,380 --> 00:56:08,719
saprophytic fungi population.

1887
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:09,940
So your saprophytes are your

1888
00:56:09,940 --> 00:56:10,920
decomposers. They're going to

1889
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,179
decompose your non -living plant

1890
00:56:14,179 --> 00:56:14,980
residue.

1891
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,159
And the saprophytes have a

1892
00:56:18,340 --> 00:56:20,480
much more limited effect on

1893
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,400
building stable soil aggregates.

1894
00:56:23,099 --> 00:56:24,179
It's really the mycorrhizal

1895
00:56:24,179 --> 00:56:25,139
fungi that are the most

1896
00:56:25,139 --> 00:56:26,179
effective at building stable

1897
00:56:26,179 --> 00:56:26,980
soil aggregates.

1898
00:56:27,579 --> 00:56:29,880
So you can build stable soil

1899
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,680
aggregates

1900
00:56:32,110 --> 00:56:34,130
even when you have a more

1901
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:35,590
imbalanced calcium to magnesium

1902
00:56:35,590 --> 00:56:36,390
ratio.

1903
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,059
But I'll add one more point.

1904
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,240
You

1905
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:41,560
have sandy

1906
00:56:41,900 --> 00:56:45,400
loam soils with 25 to 30 CECs.

1907
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:50,519
Okay.

1908
00:56:52,530 --> 00:56:53,750
Out of curiosity, what are your

1909
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:54,550
potassium levels?

1910
00:56:59,510 --> 00:57:01,769
So around 2 % base saturation in

1911
00:57:01,769 --> 00:57:02,909
a loam soil, you're looking at

1912
00:57:02,909 --> 00:57:04,510
300 to 400 parts per million.

1913
00:57:06,099 --> 00:57:06,900
Okay.

1914
00:57:07,710 --> 00:57:08,510
So

1915
00:57:11,449 --> 00:57:12,610
there are,

1916
00:57:13,210 --> 00:57:14,489
in the scenario that you're

1917
00:57:14,489 --> 00:57:15,289
describing,

1918
00:57:17,050 --> 00:57:19,269
you have heavy soils that have

1919
00:57:19,269 --> 00:57:20,489
large mineral reserves.

1920
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:23,079
And there is an element, I don't

1921
00:57:23,079 --> 00:57:24,539
have the chemistry

1922
00:57:24,980 --> 00:57:26,340
at

1923
00:57:26,780 --> 00:57:28,139
the tip of my tongue to describe

1924
00:57:28,139 --> 00:57:29,940
this in detail right now, nor do

1925
00:57:29,940 --> 00:57:30,740
we have the time,

1926
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:32,619
but there is an element of

1927
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:34,960
soil flocculation.

1928
00:57:35,550 --> 00:57:37,389
flocculating clays, not just

1929
00:57:37,389 --> 00:57:39,889
being an expression of total

1930
00:57:39,889 --> 00:57:41,469
magnesium and calcium content

1931
00:57:41,469 --> 00:57:42,809
alone. It's not just the total

1932
00:57:42,809 --> 00:57:44,469
content. There is also a

1933
00:57:44,469 --> 00:57:45,889
reflection of availability.

1934
00:57:47,219 --> 00:57:50,460
And the one observation

1935
00:57:50,460 --> 00:57:51,920
that I've found very intriguing

1936
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:52,720
is

1937
00:57:53,110 --> 00:57:54,949
in situations such as the one

1938
00:57:54,949 --> 00:57:56,010
that you're describing where we

1939
00:57:56,010 --> 00:57:57,030
have very heavy soils,

1940
00:57:57,630 --> 00:57:59,909
it's economically unfeasible in

1941
00:57:59,909 --> 00:58:01,409
many cases to put on enough

1942
00:58:01,409 --> 00:58:02,210
limestone

1943
00:58:02,500 --> 00:58:04,559
to compensate and to bring the

1944
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:06,159
calcium magnesium ratio into the

1945
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:06,960
desired balance.

1946
00:58:07,699 --> 00:58:09,860
And so our approach has been to

1947
00:58:09,860 --> 00:58:11,460
put on limited

1948
00:58:11,989 --> 00:58:14,889
amounts of very fine limestone.

1949
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:16,500
It can be

1950
00:58:17,230 --> 00:58:19,190
I want to see a minimum of 200

1951
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:20,449
mesh particle size.

1952
00:58:20,730 --> 00:58:22,469
It can be pelletized and

1953
00:58:22,469 --> 00:58:25,949
applications as low as 30 to 50

1954
00:58:25,949 --> 00:58:26,769
pounds per acre.

1955
00:58:26,869 --> 00:58:28,050
I like to be in the 100 to 200

1956
00:58:28,050 --> 00:58:29,030
pounds per acre range,

1957
00:58:29,409 --> 00:58:31,110
but applications as low as 30 to

1958
00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:32,809
50 pounds per acre applied at

1959
00:58:32,809 --> 00:58:35,010
planting as a fertilizer in a

1960
00:58:35,010 --> 00:58:36,409
drill or something like that can

1961
00:58:36,409 --> 00:58:39,110
have a tremendous effect on the

1962
00:58:39,110 --> 00:58:40,710
crop and it has a tremendous

1963
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:42,949
effect on soil flocculation in

1964
00:58:42,949 --> 00:58:43,750
that zone.

1965
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:48,019
So there is this reflection,

1966
00:58:48,699 --> 00:58:50,219
this response to calcium

1967
00:58:50,219 --> 00:58:52,460
availability that can last for a

1968
00:58:52,460 --> 00:58:53,500
several year period that is an

1969
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:54,480
economical pathway.

1970
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:55,599
You're not trying to change the

1971
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:56,420
bulk solar environment,

1972
00:58:56,860 --> 00:58:57,820
but you're changing what is

1973
00:58:57,820 --> 00:58:59,000
happening in that rhizosphere

1974
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:00,519
that can produce very positive

1975
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:01,320
crop responses.

1976
00:59:02,989 --> 00:59:03,789
You're going to cut me off?

1977
00:59:04,610 --> 00:59:05,410
One more question?

1978
00:59:05,650 --> 00:59:06,710
All right, I'll go over here.

1979
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:21,400
Oh,

1980
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,179
so this is no, yeah, this is a

1981
00:59:24,179 --> 00:59:24,980
follow up question to our

1982
00:59:24,980 --> 00:59:26,019
earlier conversation where I

1983
00:59:26,019 --> 00:59:27,159
mentioned 40 units of nitrogen

1984
00:59:27,159 --> 00:59:28,599
and 20 units of sulfur as a

1985
00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:30,099
beginning at planting as a

1986
00:59:30,099 --> 00:59:30,940
plant. thiosulfate.

1987
00:59:31,739 --> 00:59:32,659
And what I intended to

1988
00:59:32,659 --> 00:59:33,699
communicate, I may not have been

1989
00:59:33,699 --> 00:59:34,500
clear,

1990
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,320
was I prefer to get the sulfur

1991
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,110
from ammonium thiosulfate and

1992
00:59:38,110 --> 00:59:39,389
then adding other forms of

1993
00:59:39,389 --> 00:59:40,809
nitrogen. You can just add more

1994
00:59:40,809 --> 00:59:42,269
ammonium sulfate and add more

1995
00:59:42,269 --> 00:59:43,449
than 20 units of sulfur if you

1996
00:59:43,449 --> 00:59:45,170
want, or you can add urea or you

1997
00:59:45,170 --> 00:59:46,949
can add UAN or something else.

1998
00:59:47,630 --> 00:59:48,869
So yeah, that was what I

1999
00:59:48,869 --> 00:59:49,670
intended to communicate.

2000
00:59:50,239 --> 00:59:51,480
All right, I wanna say thank you

2001
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:52,300
all. Thank you all for being

2002
00:59:52,300 --> 00:59:53,100
here.

2003
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:01,019
I'm sure there are many follow

2004
01:00:01,019 --> 01:00:02,079
-up questions that I didn't get

2005
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:03,800
to. I'm intending to, as much as

2006
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,659
possible, spend my time at the

2007
01:00:05,659 --> 01:00:06,980
AEA exhibit on the trade show

2008
01:00:06,980 --> 01:00:07,960
floor, so I'm going to be out

2009
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:08,760
there if you have any follow -up

2010
01:00:08,699 --> 01:00:09,500
questions.

2011
01:00:10,210 --> 01:00:11,809
The team at AEA and I are

2012
01:00:11,809 --> 01:00:13,329
dedicated to bringing this show

2013
01:00:13,329 --> 01:00:14,909
to you because we believe that

2014
01:00:14,909 --> 01:00:16,610
knowledge and information is the

2015
01:00:16,610 --> 01:00:18,289
foundation of successful

2016
01:00:18,289 --> 01:00:19,570
regenerative systems.

2017
01:00:20,309 --> 01:00:22,289
At AEA, we believe that growing

2018
01:00:22,289 --> 01:00:24,030
better quality food and making

2019
01:00:24,030 --> 01:00:25,550
more money from your crops is

2020
01:00:25,550 --> 01:00:26,350
possible.

2021
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:28,400
And since 2006, we've worked

2022
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,460
with leading professional

2023
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:30,900
growers to help them do just

2024
01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:31,700
that.

2025
01:00:31,929 --> 01:00:33,590
At AEA, we don't guess.

2026
01:00:33,889 --> 01:00:35,090
We test. We analyze.

2027
01:00:35,829 --> 01:00:37,030
And we provide recommendations

2028
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:38,789
based on scientific data,

2029
01:00:39,230 --> 01:00:40,150
knowledge, and experience.

2030
01:00:40,889 --> 01:00:41,949
We've developed products that

2031
01:00:41,949 --> 01:00:43,230
are uniquely positioned to help

2032
01:00:43,230 --> 01:00:44,750
growers make more money with

2033
01:00:44,750 --> 01:00:45,730
regenerative agriculture.

2034
01:00:46,469 --> 01:00:47,869
If you are a professional grower

2035
01:00:47,869 --> 01:00:49,690
who believes in testing instead

2036
01:00:49,690 --> 01:00:50,490
of guessing,

2037
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:52,150
someone who believes in a

2038
01:00:52,150 --> 01:00:53,550
better, more regenerative way to

2039
01:00:53,550 --> 01:00:54,350
grow,

2040
01:00:54,469 --> 01:00:57,050
visit advancingecoag .com and

2041
01:00:57,050 --> 01:00:58,590
contact us to see if AEA is

2042
01:00:58,590 --> 01:00:59,390
right for you.