#386 - Hailey Whitters On The Country Stars Who Have Slept On Her Couch + Once Being So Broke She Had To Sleep In The Airport + Funding Her Own Album That Led To Her Breakthrough

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Speaker 1: You get great news like that, and I was like, so broke and busted. My flight got canceled and I literally couldn't afford a hotel in Boston, so I slept in the airport. Then you know Hayley Witters. I mean, she absolutely could have made it just based on talent in her first year in town. But what I like about her story is just the timing. It wasn't right, but she just kept on. Like timing's a big part of it, because she's had the talent. But what's cool is she didn't really change who she was, and now she gets to be who she really is, and now she gets she's having a real moment here. And so I really like Hayley. We've had her on the radio show to play and I don't know, I just just her spirit is awesome. And she's very open about the fact that she's been here ten, eleven, twelve years and it took her that long, and she talks about had to go back to waiting tables, and if anything, I want people to take away from this, not even the music part of it, that like, as long as you're still going to day and over and it's super cool. I'm just a big fan of her episode three eighty six. Her current single is everything. She Ain't sort of turn it down briefly, so let me get sued right down and all the way, all the way now back up money everything she eats everything. We still have an official ruling on that, right. They just say no more than five seconds. They say five seconds, but we should do it like six seconds for a couple episodes to see if they come at us, and then seven the next thing you know, we're playing the entire song. Huh. So Hailey Witters, she has an album called Raised to come out last year. It's her third studio album. But she talks about stuff and it's like, does that happened? Twelve years she spent here and she just now started to really see it happen. But she's always been awesome and she's always been herself, and I think that's what held her back for a bit because people didn't know what to do with her because she was so different. But it's also now what's really like put her in a spot to be hugely successful. So follow her at Hailey Witters on Instagram and TikTok or what I like to do sometimes when I listen to podcasts. If I don't know the person, I'll go look, it's what their face looks like, so I can imagine them during the interview. So if you like her, check it out, enjoy it. Mike. What's on Movie's movie podcasts? This week? I watched every single Marvel movie and did a breakdown of how I watched them. He had in a different way. You didn't watch him in order? Yeah, I did a character by character, so check that out. And then next week on this is we have Chase Rice. I don't know if that was next week, but also one that Chase left. And I've known Chase in our capacity for years. We never really hung out, never really got along that well, but we kind of get into that and it was I mean, it really was one of the best ones as far as somebody coming in and just going, all right, all the armors off, let's just talk about it. It's awesome. It's a really good one. And this one's great and it's Haley Witters. I hope you enjoy it. She's going out on the twenty twenty three Raised tour. I hope you go see her alive. She's amazing and here she is. I grew up in Arkansas, we had a bunch of tornadoes. You have a bunch yeah in Iowa. Yeah, yeah, we always did us too, And so I just got them on my wife and she's driving to Memphis and then back later tonight because she has an event out there. But she was like, hey, they just come up the phone. It's at tornado warning. I like, everywhere, I don't see twenty warnings? Really, yeah, did you look any everywhere? I didn't see anything I didn't see. You know. I feel like we all get really skittish, and rightfully so because we had that super bad one, you know, but like I mean tornadoes back growing up, it was like, let's go sit on the board. Same thing. It really was, until we absolutely have to go to the basement. Yeah. We the last time there was a big storm here, probably like six months ago, we got in the basement because under this place there's a big like finish basement. And in my I just had a surgery and he's in a cone. Had two people from New York that have flown in for like business, and we're all underneath there. One of the dogs is new Pean on stuff. It was just wild, but they were all freaked out because they were from New York and they had never seen tornadoes before. Again, yea, we have in Arkansas every three weeks or so. On this it Oh my god, it was consistent. So my point is, she's freaking out a little bit. But I'm looking. I don't see anything. Microphone still on, right, Yeah, you're watching. I don't see anything. Well. I saw Haley put her phone on airplane mode, and I was like, I don't know if that's the move right now. I'm trusting y'all will tell us if we gotta go downstair. We got I got like four different things that are gonna alert us. But other than that, how's it been going? It's good. I was just telling the boys. I just got in this morning. I was in Minneapolis last night. She played like a radio show or something. Yeah, we played um K one O two radio show fan jam Frozen fan Jam. Scottie mccrew was out there, Shane Prophet Brelan was out there. Um yeah, it was good. Is that Greg sweat Berg? Yes? Greg and Pat got it. Yep. And so you flew back this morning. You know what I saw about you was it was as I saw that your song had maybe top thirty or something last week? Am I accurate on that? Yes? Last week I thought super cool, because yeah, it's so hard to get to that spot because there's like a weird like swampy ground that's like forty eight to thirty thirty, and if you can break that then you actually have a shot. There's just so much I mean, people are just throwing stuff left and right at that chart. And I don't really like I don't personally do music and don't really keep up with music as far as like was on the charts, But I just play the stuff that I like, or have the people on the show that I like, or I program the National Countdown or the Women of our Country and that. But I did see that yours had climbed up and now like you got you got a real shot with this song. It has like this whole thing is so new to me. This is my first go with radio and it's been such a really yeah, I've never been you know, so like I don't know what to expect. I told my managers. I was like, y'all just call me if it's good news, Like you know, I think it would drive me like neurotic to just be like checking all the time and like, because you know, it's so much like out of your control, and but this is my first go with it all, and it's been such a learning experience for me. And like definitely they like preped me. They were like, look, there it's a slog in like the fifties, forties and stuff, you know, and so like, I'm I'm pleased to hear you saying that about the thirties because who knows. Shoot, well, I would say that just speaking to you honestly, that I think you gotta get up to like thirty nine twenty eight so that your team then goes because they have to kind of be reminded even though they know, but they're so inside that hey, maybe we should we should spend even more money on this promotion. And sometimes it can roll if you hit top twenty five or so, that momentum actually rolls into the next song, right, It was just kind of depending on what it is. But no one I saw. I saw it on Twitter. There's a guy that lives in New York and he's a random like it is like I'm not sure the show he does, but he posts a lot of charts stuff, and yeah, I think I saw him post it that you'd hit top thirty. Yeah, and I was like, that's what I'm talking about. That's awesome, that's good. And I didn't know. I guess I've known of you so long. I didn't know that you hadn't really done that where they have tried the radio thing, because I know for a long time they were just putting out really good music by you, so people would know the really good music like strategically And so, is this the first time you've had a promo team work a song? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I this is like my first because I was independent for so long. I mean I've been here fifteen years, and it was like you're twelve. I think it was twenty twenty. But three years ago I signed my first ever record deal with Big Loud and Pigasus and so, and then it was like with the pandemic had hit, I came in with a record, so like we released that and then we went and did this EP and then Raised is the first record that like was kind of like my official starting with Big Loud record and um, this was one of those songs off it. It was like kind of testing the waters a little bit to see what would happen with it, and this one kind of like took off, and so they were like, great, let's get a radio campaign going, you know, which means that it's money, right, They're gonna spend money. Yeah, I mean, that's really what it is. They're gonna spend money to make sure that you can get to places like Minnesota. What sucks for you as you don't get paid, but what's great is they're paying for it, and you're gonna go do promotion and be in front of people's faces and you know, and then they go, well, like her, let's play the song. It's just up yeah, you know, but it is money and resources. Yeah, and they're spending it now. Yeah, and hopefully when it hits top thirty, they go, Okay, let's look, let's go a little more in. Yeah, and if they're listening now, you should go a little and we should go a lot more in. I'm a believer. I just got my first ever plaque. I got a gold plaque two days ago. Does it gold me five hundred thousand? I don't really know either, So what for this song? Yeah? And so what does that mean now? Because back in the day it would mean five hundred thousand units bought. But I guess now it's the equivalent with streams. I think it's like, is it seventy million or some seventy or seventy five million? I feel like, congratulations. Where do they give it to you on stage? Um? No, they surprised me at the Big Loud label building the other day. They like woke me up for a nine am surprise come to the office. Likely. I was like, actually dressed, you know, and um yeah, and they surprised me there and it was awesome. I mean I've never won anything, you know, So it's what's crazy. I hear you say that. I just have such a high regard for you and your talent that sometimes I have to be reminded that, Like even when you're like this is my first br I'm like really, yeah, Like what a travesty that is. Oh gosh. But don't get me depressed, Bobby. No, it's the opposite of that. And it's a true testament of just tenacity more than anything. And I feel like that's been the key to any success I have. Yeah, where you're actually good at something, I just last like, you're like super talented, and I just go I'm just like a cockroach like things by around me. I just keep walking. I want to go back though a few years god to the record that you paid for yourself, which was The Dream. Yeah right, yeah, when you when you pay for a record yourself, how do you go about that? Is it a lump some how? Many tracks? Like walk me through those decisions, because sometimes there are hard decisions to make because you don't have money pay for all the tracks that you want to come right, So go back to that record and tell me how you made the decisions that you did to put that out. That was like you know, some people go and they like cut a record in like a week. That was like a year and a half process for me. So it wasn't like, you know, I just had this giant sum of money and let's go blow it on a record. It was like I was waiting tables I um I had. I was still in my first publishing deal, which was with Carnival Music, so I was getting like, you know, my monthly songwriter thing. Um. But let me tell everybody listening that ain't no luxury boats. Oh no, like you're pension pennies. You know, like first deal, you ain't making money, but um and so I like, I also had had my first single as a songwriter kind of during that time, maybe a few years prior, a little Big Town recorded a song I've written called happy People. Um was that on the Frail Project or was it it was on UM? Yeah, it was right after it was the Breaker record? Got it and you know, again like that one struggled at radio, like I think it was only on there for maybe a few months, So it wasn't like I had before. You talk about struggle tho, I want to talk about you getting the single, like, because because that isn't that's an amazing thing to hear they're cutting your song. Yes, so, and I'm gonna get back to the record, but You've sent me down a different hole that I want to go look into, where it's you're writing songs, you have a publishing deal, you write that song, and how do you know when they're interested? First, this was like a total freak never happened thing that happened to me where it was like I went up to Boston. I think this was like you're eight maybe of me being in town seven or eight something, and you know, Laurie McKenna, it's like that's like years of building up to try and get in a room with Laurie McKenna, and I finally got the green light and I went up to Boston and I wrote We wrote Happy People was the first song we ever wrote. And I was literally sitting in the Boston airport about to like fly back to Nashville, just texting my plugger, Hey, here's what we wrote. YadA YadA. She was like, I'm going to send this to Karen Fairchild and she like texted it to her, emailed whatever, and within like an hour she texted me back was like, hey, Karen wants to hold this for the sand same trips. I'm not even home yet, and I was like what dang, and so um, you know they played it. I guess everyone liked it. Next thing you know, they're cutting it. Next thing you know is your first get that call they're cutting the song or do you know afterward? I knew they were holding it, but you didn't know they had cut it yet. I didn't know they were holding it. And you want to know what's so funny about this story, and just to like give some perspective, I was still like, you get great news like that, And I was like, so broke and busted, Like my flight got canceled and I literally couldn't afford a hotel in Boston, so I slept in the airport. Then what is position things? What a juxtaposition? You're like, hey, major artists, Yes, they want your song and they love it. Also, yeah, you got no money for Super eight. Yeah you can't stay well in Boston downtown Boston. It's like two hundred bucks or whatever. But still it's like I remember, like couldn't even barely eat a meal because I was like probably had like a few hundred bucks in my account at that time. But it's the insane thing about this business where it's like the highs and the lows, you know, but um and the dream that feeds you even when you're not really eating real food. Yes, like that was it for me for such a long time, where I just had the idea that one day it wasn't going to be like this, and because I had that hope in that dream, yeah it was Okay, it sucks now, but I just gotta keep fighting. Yes, And without that, I don't think I could have done it. Yeah, without there being a hope, I don't think I would have been able to last like I did. Yea, that was my nourishment A lot of times was what possibly could be. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of that to be said about this story too. Yeah. I like to say, like we're kind of like negligent optimists, you know what I mean. We take foolish risks sometimes, but every once in a while something pays off really big. You sleep in the airport, you go home, use rubb with Dorian McKinnon. You're broke, but you're things are happening in a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So whenever a little big town has your song and they say they're key, will you get any any better rights just because an artist is holding a song or is that mostly after they cut it? Or like when does the reputation st a little bit where people want to get you in a room? I feel like it starts there, you know, like Lorie being able to see my name on a song with Lori and like a hold and a little big towns cutting it and stuff, you know, like that all kind of really helps. I think get cracked the door open for me a little bit. When did they tell you that they did they send you the song before I came out on the record. I don't think they did. I think that they posted a clip of them singing it a cappella somewhere and that was like the first moment. I was like, oh, you know, chills, just like hearing their voices on it. It was such a cool feeling and it was just really exciting, you know, you think like everything's gonna change for you. Yeah. I've had a few of those and I'm like, oh, this is huge chip and it does it, but it's always something really small that is at the time kind of inconsequential feeling. Yeah, that are the big things. Yeah, that actually do pivot into stuff. So you have the relationship with Loria the Rush a little big town, but at the same time you're working on this record that you're paying for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So you say it took a year and a half. Is that because you would save up and get a track done or how was that process? I would do like five songs I think a session, and you know, we'd like work on that. And I didn't really have a team at this point either, so it was like me and my producer Jake and my publisher Emily Schiraldi Firman at Carnival, and it was kind of like the three of us just like holing up in the office like what should we do? I don't know, Yoda yoda, And you know, we'd kind of work on the record a little bit. Frank Ladell at Carnival he produces Miranda Lambert or he had done a few records on Hurley and Walmack. He was kind of like grandfathering us a little bit and like coaching us through it and telling us, you know, like what he honestly was just really supportive and kind of like fed us to keep going and whatnot, because we had no idea what we were doing. I'd never produced a record, My producer had never produced a record. We just like we're following our gut with it all, you know, and making trying to make music that we liked, that we would want to listen to. And for me, it was the mentality of like I've been here ten years, like this may be it for me, So let's just make something that if this is the last thing I get to make here, we love it and we can go home and like I can tell my kids about it some day or something. You know, unless you fail doing what you wanted to do. There have been times when I failed doing something other people have say why don't you do this, and I'm like, you know what, okay, and then you bam them out and you're like, god, dang, I'd rather failed doing what I wanted to do, So I didn't have all these thoughts that would like yeah, and so that was that was your idea of Okay, we may go down, dang it, but we're gonna do something that really feels true to me and what we're doing, because if it fails, at least we fail to honestly Yeah, yeah, and you can hang your hat on that, you know. And so that's kind of what we did. And it was a year and a half of just like holding up in my engineer's studio in Germantown, and you know, we'd just stay up late into the night, drink bourbon and talk about we're just so buzzy on songs and energy and excitement and fun. You know. It was like one of the most fruitful years for me because I'd been so brokenhearted by the industry, you know, and so this was like kind of me getting a little bit of like I tuned out so much of the town and just kind of went in and was like finding it all again. Is there an impatience as you guys were creating the songs that would be the record and you're doing them in batches? Was it ever like, you know, what, screw it, let's just put these five out, like I just want to get something out. Did you have to battle that or did you really have the patience to go, we're gonna finish this whole thing and we're gonna put it out as the project is because my patience isn't good. Yeah, I'm just like, oh, didn't let's go and get it out there. How was that process for you? I it's funny that you say that, because I have never thought about that. But I was just like, it was a record in my mind, and it wasn't done until everything was complete. I mean, shoot, I think that I went up to right with Lorie again and I wrote what ended up being like one of the title track of the record. So we've gone in and made that session, you know, and then I went up with her and I wrote a few more songs. So it wasn't you know, it was a work in progress the whole way until it felt complete to us, and then we didn't have a team, so then we're like, okay, now what do we do with it? You know, you put out other songs from that record, like a deluxe version, right because you did the record that you've added songs. Was it different to do those songs that were added because the record was at least critically acclaimed and depending on I mean, I like the record, and a lot of people like the record, but I don't. I don't know it's reach out because I wasn't watching any of your Psycho about you just so was it easier to find the money to do those tracks because of the success of the original record? Yeah? I think so, And I'm trying to like, remember, I think on the deluxe is when Big Loud I was signing my deal too, so then they were a part of that. So I wasn't like saving all my waitressing tips anymore. You know. It was like they were helping float me and giving me the freedom to be able to create han Ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're back on the Bobby Cast. Was there any part of that record that whomever signed you over at Big Loud, Like, I don't know which of the guys. Yeah, which are the people over there were instrumental and hey, that's awesome, let's get her. Was there a song or two that they brought up like really resonated with them. They were like, when we listen to this, this song shows us who you are. Do you remember? I remember like Seth got super jacked on Filling my Cup when he heard Feeling my Cup. He was like, this is the sound you know? That was like we'd put fiddle on it. It kind of has that throwback like you know, um and and he was just like he lit up on that song. And yeah, it's been really cool, you know, to see the whole thing with them, and Nicole Gallants a part of it too, with songs and daughters, and she's someone I've written with for a very long time, so she knows me very well creatively. But I feel very fortunate. I think having been here for so long, I was always so like gun shy about record labels because I've seen so many friends just get crushed, you know what I drop, Yeah, just it not work. Yeah, So it was very important for me. One of the perks of having been around the block of this town a few times. Very important for me to find someone that just like got it, you know, and I felt that Seth and Nicole and the team there, they really got it. And they've been really cool about letting me do my thing. You know, when you play shows now and if you when you play the single, do you hear people sing back to you, Yeah, it's last night. It was so freaking nuts. It's so bizarre as someone who's been here for freaking ever, you know, put out multiple records to be able to see the difference with this one song. It's just nuts, and it's nuts at thirty, oh god, twenty, it's a it's a different level ten. I mean, you're gonna have so many people that finger quotes believed believed in you from the beginning. Like that's the best. That's the best part about it is that so many people now, Hayley, You're gonna be like, we knew it. We knew it when we first we first moved to town. You're like, well, if you knew it, why don't you call me? Yeah? Seriously, I was so when you moved to town there you were if some of the stuff, I'm just gonna go from memory of ye speaking with you, uh teenager when you moved here. I was seventeen. That's why teenagers seems because you weren't. But you went to school here though, right I came here. Yeah, so I was like, I'm moving here no matter what. And my mom kind of panic mode, oldest to leave the nest, like she found Belmont. She was like, please go to school. So it was kind of like my safety net, you know. But if you're seventeen when you move here, because you even go to school right when you moved here. Yeah, I was like one of I was one of those weird kids where it was like school starts in August. I'm eighteen in September, you know. Um so, yeah, i'd lived there. I lived on campus. I didn't have a call, are you know. I walked down a broadway, walked into Tootsie's, was like, can I get a gig? You know that whole thing. How did you find Nashville though? In general, because that your town in Iowa. Not big, No, So it was Nashville a bit because for me, this is the biggest city of ever I've been. I'm in big cities a lot now, but I'm from Mountain Pine, Arkasas. I never lived in a city this big yeah, like Austin, Nashville, same size, And when I would get to I'd be like, dany, this is huge. H But then my friends would come here from bigger they were like, oh, what a tiny town. And I'm like, you guys don't know what it's like growing up in a small town. Was there that for you when you first moved here? Like holy crab, tall building? Yeah, sports team? Oh yeah. I felt like such a city girl. Yeah, you know, like q sex in the city. I was like, I am just a huge city girl now. But yeah, because this was the biggest city i'd been to too. What'd your parents think about you moving to a big city? I think they were a little scared for me, but I think they were excited for me, you know, and could they've been nothing but like encouraging and go get it and go do it and Whatnotum Apparently my mom like locked herself in her bedroom for a week because I was just like, I'm the oldest six like moving nine hours away. I didn't know a single soul, you know, so I think, um, you know, I like to think she missed me. But yeah, it was a big deal for me, and I found it because she had she knew. I was so determined to do something here and I just didn't know how. You know, probably same with Arkansas. It's like there's no music scene. There's nobody that's done in there's no blueprint. People where I grew up worked as mill Yeah, and so that's what I knew. So people most people left school they did in your town. What did most kids do when they graduated? Um, you know, either went into like a trade school, started work over their dad or um, you know, some kids would go to like Iowa or Iowa State or something. And so you move here and you're going to school. What did you think about Belmont as a school freshman year? Big? Did you think? Were you like whoa? Also these kids are really talented? Yeah, because you're so scared because again I'm like little kind kid, you know, I didn't come from a musical family like, so I just totally it was just like oh my gosh, you know, like everyone here is so good, and you know there's the whole like Belmonte culture and the stars and all that. So yeah, I mean this Nashville was like my crash course and like country music and honky tonk education, you know, going down playing bars learned very quickly. It's a songwriter town book, a gig at Richard's Cafe, which ironically is where I went back in twelve years later, asking for a job, but just feeling my way through the dark with it all, trying to meet as many people as possible, trying to co write immediately, just to build my network and get to know people. What were you doing playing in Iowa? If you're fourteen fifteen you love music? Where were you playing the year or two years or however long to actually know that you love to do it and you wanted to move and pursue it. I mean, gosh, like flatbed trailers at birthday parties and graduation anywhere? You just anywhere? Like did you start? Where do you get your first guitar? My first guitar? My mom got me. She signed me up for some good like guitar center, I think in Cedar Rapids. She signed me up for some guitar lessons. I started playing guitar, learning a few chords. I always loved writing, and I always knew I wanted to write my songs, So I started writing silly little songs. And then she actually brought me down here when I was like fifteen, and that was like the moment I think that I got to see it, and then there was no turning back. You know, when you left, you just knew. Did you talk about it a lot? Like? Oh? Probably? I think I was like so pumped and just I'm moving to Nashville, YadA, YadA. You know that's so cute. Did you think let's just talk at the trip down? Do you drive or fly? Drug drove with my family. My family all loaded up the truck. All my siblings came down, and you know, I'm like, all your siblings came down. Five huh yeah. Dad brought the truck. Everyone he liked to. I mean, he'd throw us all in the back of the truck, put a topper on it, and we don't just probably not the most safe, but sometimes no top, you know, I mean. And so we all drove down, and I was really it was bittersweet. I was, I was so excited to be here, but I've always been so sad to leave there. And so you know, I'm thinking, we're gonna have this really sweet, you know, emotional weekend. And they literally dropped me off and we're like, all right, we'll see Thanksgiving and they just turned around and drove back to Iowa. Were you in a dorm? Yeah, so did you think on your You're not going to be able to really remember this, but maybe you can just kind of identify the feeling. But as you were on your way down and were you like I'm going to Nashville breaking gonna make it, or like I'm going to Nashville, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm gonna try. Like what was that? I was like, I'm gonna make it, you know. I think I was just like so, I didn't know how, I didn't know when, but I just had this feeling like this is what I'm doing, you know, and I'm there's never been a plan B. It wasn't until you know, a decade in that I really started to think for the first time ever, like what if this doesn't work? What else are you going to do? You know? Um, did you finish school at Belmont? But did oh good for you? Yeah? And were you playing You say you went to Tousie Where did you go very first and go, hey, can I like audition or where was the first time you played a show in Nashville's Yeah, I mean I went down to like the open mic and asked. But then the other place was Richards and then another early one was um gosh, I don't even think it exists anymore. It was like kind of behind Saco over in Vandy. I think it was called like cat. It was like a oyster bar or something, which sounds so weird in Nashville, but yeah, it was like this little basement dive bar. You walked down and the guy would have writers nights there. And I remember seeing Ruthie Collins. She was in a band at the time, she was in a duo, and I just like watched that show and then I went and asked the guy, the sound guy, like how can I play here? The commodore was really big. I remember when were you playing a bunch of covers mostly after are people there? Or were you playing your own music? Those riders nights were totally my own music. What about like a tutsis tutsis covers? You know, did you have to learn a lot of covers or did you learn some but then put like the phone up and play the chords of people? Asked that was that was like some old day stuff, you know, like I knew a lot of songs from playing the bars back home, so I knew a lot of covers, you know, and then they have the house band there, so I'd jump up sing SuDS in the bucket, uh, you know, Heads Carolina things like that. Um, you know, some days I'd to wake up and I'm still trying to go to school too, and sometimes they call and they're like, hey, we need you down in like ten minutes. Can you get down here, and you know, stitching class to like go play, yeah, and I'm like playing. I'd go do like a four There was some days that I would play like a four hour shift. Me and I gets are at the airport and then I would go straight down to Broadway and I'd play Rippies from like you know, two to six. So it's like we're in the airport. Um, it doesn't really exist anymore. But there's like two Tootsies. There's the one that's cool and in there, and then there was one that was like on your way to baggage claim, and I was the one on the way to baggage claim. So you're playing these places you're going to school. How about your grades? Oh see, CB, did you feel like because I was working full time and going to school two and there were times where I felt underwater. Yeah, did you feel that way? Did you ever feel like, hey, I'm a after quit school. I never felt that way. I mean I did enough to like get to pass and to make good grades, you know, But in my mind, it was like I was out hustling music, row in the honky tonks and trying to work and you know, make music and get noticed and get discovered. How'd you get your publishing deal? Um I had graduated. I was like a year after I'd graduated, and I made a little EP and you know, I had a few contacts passing it out whennot I was at an ASCAP and they had a GPS program that would like hook you up with a publisher every month and you would get to go in and have sessions. And I'm reconnected with Emily, who I'd known from running around in circles and stuff like that, and she I was her first signing at Carnival. Well yeah, she was like, I want you to be my first signing here, and so, you know, for both of us it was brand spanking new. We don't know what we're doing, but we're figuring out together. We believe in each other and and I was with her for eight years. Was there anyone that you kind of showed up to town around the same time and or maybe a few people that you saw actually make it and you're like, yeah, dang, they are good, but I'm good too. I was like, so, I mean, I don't know if I had that approach. Everyone was just like so much better than me in my mind. So it wasn't like I was like bitter or like, you know whatever. But I mean Casey Musgras like slept on my couch a few times. Marin. I remember when Marion got to town. I was probably like five years in at that point and she I just remember watching her blow up, you know. And um, I went to school with like Ryan hurd Um, what do you think? I think he was like a year older than me maybe, but yeah, same time. What do you what do you credit And I know what your answer is going to be, but I'm just walking back to it. What do you credit their success too? Especially early? I think they were so good they had been doing it since they were so much younger. I didn't have like those resources, I don't think growing up, you know what I mean, I just didn't know Um, they kind of had the Texas thing where it was like it sounds like they were tour in Texas and making records and whatnot. I didn't have that, and I think that that really helped them know who they were so early. They both did know who they were, very knew who they were. Yeah, you know, they showed up knowing who they were, and they were really great songwriters. Yes, which, like you said, this is a songwriter town, which I don't think a lot of people know because it's just hey, Nashville, can you sing? Go make it really hard to sing if you can't actually sing your own store your own words, because there's a lot of being luke and sing. Yeah, there's a lot of people who can write really good songs, but there's a few they can write really good songs and freaking sing them. Yeah. And if you can do that, yeah, Like that's where it is. You're playing these shows, you're working, you're going to school, you graduate. Do you think, okay, well, it's about to get easier now because now I can focus fully on music. And was it easier? Well? I had sort of a unique situation, I guess, because I actually I actually graduated a month after a month later than I was supposed to because my brother died, So that kind of threw a whole you know, left turn into my plan. So those years after I freshly graduated, it was pretty dark for me, you know. I mean I wasn't focused on music. I was still writing. I remember getting like the first email from someone in the industry, Bonnie Baker emailed me, and it was really sweet and kind, and it made me think like I should keep doing this, you know, someone checked in on me and thout going home to stay. I did go home for a minute. I went home for like his funeral, and then a whole month or two months after that, my whole entire family just kind of like packed up the RV and went driving out west. So once we got back from that trip, though, I was like, I need to go back. I'm gonna keep working graduate all that, So I did that. But yeah, you know, I think coming out of that period, I don't really know when I was. I was still writing, still working, probably not as much, but I don't know when I really started hitting the ground running. After that. It just kind of gradually started happening again, probably when I started making that next DP and trying to land a publishing deal because I was nannying at the time and waiting table still and and then I made that EP and I got my pub deal like an hour or an hour. That's quick story. Yes, let's do a tornado check, Mike. How are we doing? We're good? Okay? Is there anything tornado? Becauld? Say? Even? If so, I'm gonna call Kate. Like as you driving to Memphis, they just said nothing spicy on the radar as of this minute. Who said nothing spicy? And why am I trusting them if they're calling the weather weather? Okay? And like to Memphis. If there's only a Memphis account, I can find one. Take a look see if you don't mind. Is your car on the shop? Uh? No, it's that it's in your's right, Yeah, was it in the shop? I was gonna take it, but I don't have time. No, that's a time. That's a thing. You should have time. That's a priority thing. I know. I'm gonna take it tomorrow, I think. But what's wrong? Why are you driving? What's wrong with it? Just needs an oil change? Oh that's it? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, my god, okay, yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm not like missing a bumper or anything. Well even work. Okay, so your car everything's good. I'm good. Okay. Um, who taught you how to drive? Back home? Well? I didn't drive like a shift or anything, my dad. No, I didn't. My dad taught me how to drive a shift later. Um, but I drove a truck and he taught me how to drive. And he was like the scariest teacher. He taught me how to read. He taught me how to drive because he's like one of those guys. It's like you want to learn how to swim. Boom, push you in the deep in starts swimming, you know what I mean. So um, and he's very impatient. So you start just like making moves you know. Um, you didn't drive it, you'd have to throw a stick like early on. No I didn't. No, I didn't. Um, I am assigning a biased that I shouldn't be doing. I would love to. I mean I tried. He went and gave me a crash course in the field and whatnot, and it was very painful. You have a shut corn getting so mad? Oh yeah okay, yeah I've done that too. But yeah, if you just had no one that I've been like, you're not from my one. Get right here, Yeah, that's all the story. So did you ever get close, meaning you're in town, you're working, you're writing, you're singing. Did you ever get close to like landing something and it just didn't quite happen? Um, like the first time you had your heart broken by this town where you're like godly like that, oh so close? I mean, I think it was kind of like the cuts, you know, when people are putting things on hold, or when it was like you were starting to have some like label meetings and stuff. The showcases. Man, those things are so intense because it's like you get so worked up. Everyone's coming out, they're watching you. And I don't even know if those happen anymore with TikTok, But like back in the day, it was like this is your moment and press us and that was always really painful. They talked funny, it sounds like they did. Yeah, that's how I'd be working. But you know, stuff like that. I'm sure there's been I feel like mine has. Mine was just like a nice, slow, gradual heartbreak, you know, of things not working out. I think so probably you know, it wasn't like there was one big moment that just kind of like, you know, screwed me up and then I quit. It was it was like kind of just like a low, a slow grind And then yeah, so did you have any label heads or meetings that you would meet with and they would be like, man, you got something good, we just don't know what it is. We can't do anything with you all the time because I only asked that because what what's making you different now also made you different then, But I think people are now realizing the value of it now. Yeah, because then, like you there there are parts of you that are very traditional, there are parts of you that aren't. But depending how you're viewed by the individual, they could go while she's way too traditional for what we're doing, or it could be the other way, like she look tritional butter So I just I would imagine there were times where people just know what to do with you, because you're obviously awesome, but they were like, we just we don't know, we don't know what to do. Yeah, yeah, I think like all the time, did you reconsider your style or yeah I did. There was like a phase that I did and it was awful, and I was like, I'm never we had we made cut some things, and I had our first meeting and I had to play it for a friend in the business, and I was like, I'm never gonna play these songs to anybody again. I don't like this stuff, you know what I mean. But yeah, it was weird because everyone always told me I was too Americana to Americana. I was Texas country. I wasn't, you know, commercial, and at that time it was very pop. Commercial was very pop. So I felt like fish out of water, Like I grew up on Alan Jackson and Trishia Yearwood and stuff like that. So I didn't know what to do with that. But yeah, I mean, it's interesting how music is just so cyclical because now it's like countries back and Americana's country and America Americana is the most country thing period anyway. Yeah, Like honestly like that. People say, oh, they do Americana, but that to me, there's nothing country or than Americana music. Yeah, is the weird thing about that. Yeah, And so I was with Lucas Nelson a few weeks ago, who's awesome, Like just by the way, I liked his music, but until I heard him play a live like I liked his music. Now I freaking love I love what he does. After watching that guy sing, and he's also the nicest guy, and you know, you'll classify him as like americana. Yeah, and I'm like that dude's just a country music artist. Yeah, like straight up just a country music artist. Yeah. And so the Americana label, I feel gets tossed around a little unfairly, yeah, because it's just people that don't know what to do with it. Yeah, and that's what it is, Like, it's really good, but we don't know what to do with it because we're scared to take a commercial risk on it. So we're gonna assign you the category of Americana. Yeah, Like Isabel would go to the whole list of people that there's nobody more country, and had they arrived at a different time now or three years prior or, they would have just been country. Yeah, but because of the time. And they say, I remember just seeing you like your style, and I was like, okay, before I even heard you, I was like very traditional, but then I heard you and I was like, oh yea, yeah, you're traitional, but there are some really progressive elements here at the same time. Yeah, the Bobby Cast. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast. So whenever you meet with Seth at Big Loud, did they say, look, this is you're doing what we want and so let's keep doing that, but let's find a way, Like we'll find a way to what? Like what do they how do they grow you an artist? Because you knew you were too. We talked about Marion just you just did it here? Yeah, like you found it here? Yeah? What do they say about your future and your progression whenever you finally sign a deal? You know, they honestly didn't say much. I was like really caught off guard by how much they were, like, go, do you really? Because I was like expecting to come in and get changed and shifted a little bit, you know, and YadA YadA. But like from the beginning they were like, no, we are into this, you know what I mean? Just keep doing you, keep being you. So I feel very lucky in that respect. You're doing some big tours, You're getting to post some really good people. I was looking before I came over here. Did you have you done this Shania stuff yet? Or is that coming up? It's coming up in May. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, it's so cool. Excited about that. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. I'm like so nervous. I was doing an interview today and he was like, how's it going to feel to play stadiums? And I was like, what, I don't think it really hit me yet. You know what I mean, It's gonna be big. Have you spoken to her yet at all? Never matter, it's gonna be So I have a friend I'm gonna pull some details so it never gets tracked back to them, and we'll say he he was opening for an artist, big artist, Shani alike, but not Garth. People think it's going and uh, this friend goes back and he had it. He'd played multiple shows and still hadn't met the headliner really, which I thought was weird too. And so he played multiple shows. I'll tell you off there the whole real story about I'm gonna give you the ju up. And now he played multiple shows and like the ninth show headliners says, hey, I want to go. I want to meet him, and he's like, oh great. So he goes in and meets him and he takes a acoustic guitar and he said, hey, I haven't get to me. Yet you're my hero, You're one of my heroes. I'm so grateful to you bring me on this tour. You know, I just want you to know that that you've really influenced the music. And he said, yeah, I've done that to a lot of people. Whoa, whoa, and like, yeah, then what did you come sign the guitargoes? No. I said, well, thank you for having me and left and he didn't go back again. Oh my god, he didn't play any more shows. He didn't know. He didn't go back to meet him again. He played shows, but he just like played the shows and left. And by the way, he yeah, okay, and I'll tell you the whole day because it's okay, it's hilarious. Oh my god. But I know that Shania is not like that is why I tell the story good because yeah, good, that would tear, that would crush me. I know it suck now though it's harder to be a jerk, I think just because the way that information is distributed quickly and in so many places. Yeah, that will be tough if or today. But Shanaya, I've met her a few times. I have people that have that she's lovely, so lovely. So that's super cool. What do your parents think about that? When you go I'm gonna go do shows with Shanaya. They're so stoked. I mean, like I grew up like on those records. I have a video of me singing in my underwear like any man of mine, just belting it out. You know. Um, that's like a record I just remember being played all the time in my house. You know, Dad always thought Shania was hot, so I'm sure he's stoked. Your dad also talks funny. They are like some like Screech meets Yeah, some kind of weird. I'll be an impersonator when this when my single crashes. That's what I'm saying. You don't, You're not you can't be an impersonator. They're terrible impressions. But I appreciate it. Appreciate it. Well, yeah they could. Yeah. Um, so are you doing stuff? They're at church? Yeah, what is that? I'm gonna go do some shows with him. I think in September we're doing the Gorge Jelly rolls on that show, and then I'm doing another Weekend with him and Paul Coffin. Are you doing festivals? I'm doing a lot of festivals this year, and I'm gonna do, you know. So I'm doing the Schnaia Tour. I'm doing some dates on the Eric Tour. You know, everyone kind of doing that thing where they're rotating openers. So I have some dates there, some dates there, some dates with Luke Brian and the Fall, and then I'm doing a lot of festival stuff. We interrupt this interview to bring you a message from our sponsor. This is the Bobby Cast. Are you doing any of your shows where you're like, let's see if anybody comes, how many fans I have? I mean, that's basically right. I mean that's the test too. And anytime I put tickets on sale, because I'll do theaters and I'll do set specific seats, I am so neurotic and I get so nervous that nobody likes me every single time. It's scary, man. So are you doing your own shows where it's like please sell? Yeah, we're starting that next week and um we start. It's called the Raised Tour and it'll be you know, this record, the Raised Record and all that, and I think we have like nine dates. But I'm really stoked. I mean, it is scary and I've definitely had the total flop ones, you know, but it's so cool to do a show that's just you know, even if it's freaking fifty people showing up, they know every word to every song, and that's just like, those are the moments you for thinking that, because I don't. I'm not mature like that. If I go and it's not sold out, I go, oh, I've mental mental breakdowns almost Oh my gosh. And if a show doesn't sell like seventy percent the first weekend, I'm like, well, this sh'll end up getting canceled. It is good for you, oh man, good for you for enjoying it. If there are five open seats and I see them, I'm like, they people must have been sitting there and they left because they hated. Oh no, that's not. My brain's tragic. I live in tragedy constantly. But good for you. You're gonna go play these shows. The song is hopefully we'll be killing it. It's doing great right now with momentum, which is amazing to see and it's just so cool to see it. Like, you're just an example for a lot of folks. And I hate wh people tell me that sometimes because I don't want to be the example. I want to be the example of somebody just shows up and is super talented and makes it. But there are a lot of people who are super talented who showed up and then he got sent back home too because they didn't have the knowledge or the capacity to handle it once it finally happened. And man, it is time. It's it's your time to be a star. It's so cool. It is thank you. It is your time to be a star. So when you do the show's for like Shanaya or Eric, that set is probably twenty minutes or so, I think. So, yeah, when you do your shows, are you doing an hour? We're doing like ninety Okay, I'm gonna do an hour. I'm gonna go home after an hour, but I'm gonna I'm gonna it's the rest of us gonna be good like a capacity for like sixty minutes being a capacity and then I'm out. Um so, and they can go to your website and get tickets to your your tour. Well, it is an exciting time for you. It is. It's super cool. I mean, when when did you come on anything with me? The first time I came on, was it a year ago. Maybe actually everything she ain't had maybe just come out when I came on the show, Is that right? Yeah? And I brought fiddle player in and Laurence Achs and um Ethan and we sat into I don't think the record had come out because you asked me about boys back Home or what my favorite song wasn't we talked. I don't think it'd come out yet. It does seems like forever ago, doesn't. It seems like forever ago. Did I do a TikTok about you before I ever met you? Did? I? I did what like, I've been a fan and for let me, I'm not gonna go back home my own TikTok. I just want to look at all my h streaming numbers, so tough, right, I did a TikTok about her. I was so interested in your story. This read who does all my like social media editing? He's like video a plus guy? And I was like, let's do ony on Haley Witters. And so we found all this stuff about you, and then we did one and I posted it and I was like, I never met that girl. That's oh my gosh, holy cow. Did was she the one that did you sing? Dixie. Was that her? No, maybe it wasn't her. Do you think Dixie checks like a high school something? Oh? I wrote a paper? Is that what it was? Trying to remember the things that we had said about her? It was like one of them. I think, like someone got sick or something, and I like stepped in. That's what it was in your paper. You had imagined that one of the chicks got sick, and you're which one can you stepped in and filled her off? That's funny. My point was all dying to know where that paper is. By the way, me too, because that would be awesome to see. My point is I've been a fan for a long time, even before we met each other. I was like, I'm so interested in like what she's about because I know and knew it wasn't easy to stay being about what you were about when people didn't quite get it yet, because that that ain't easy, and you can go, well, I'm as talented everybody else. I could change and just do what's accepted now. But he didn't do that, and like, sincerely, that's I'm super proud for you that it's now starting to happen. Well, thank you so much. And there's a lot of really great people in this town. I don't believe you have to show me so many great people. One of them and there's two other people in here, so that tells you one of the main great in here. I mean, there's been so many great people, and I'm inspired by so many of the paths. And Brandy Clark, I remember she's one. I remember when she was shopping and all that, and it was just like, how you know? And so I just I have a lot of good friends. Give a dog. I have two dog? What are they? An awesie? Who is awesome? I'm so codependent? Out of do you have dogs? Like? So codependent? And then I have a blue tick beagle mix. Boh, he doesn't really like that much. So did you get Bow from here or from home? Bo? We got from like Indiana. He was a foster pop. Yeah, we had a bunch of I asked that because we had blue ticks, but we used him to hunt. Oh yeah, they're like they were either a bird dog or so if he's from Indiana was a blue That's that's just whrom my mind went. So, anyway, you got Bow, why were you in Indiana touring? No? We found it like the foster company or something was in Indiana, I don't know, and so we like went up there and got him. And then the Aussie we say were rescued her showed up in an Arby's parking lot in Cookeville and this woman just like handed her to us. So wait, I don't understand. You got to go into more, dear. It was Craigslist. It was a Craigslist find. You know. I was at my friend's baby shower and I was like, let's get a dog. We're not getting a kid, so let's get a dog. And we went on Craigslist and found Aussie's and we went and like drove to Cookeville to meet this person and they just like we thought it would be at the barn. They were like their she was raised on a farm, like would be with a mama at the barn and all that, and like literally the address takes us to an Rvy's parking lot and the woman gets out of the car with the one puppy and just like hands her to us and you just handle money and we just hand her cash, and we're like, I mean, we got to take this dog now, you know. It's like we can't send her back right. So it was kind of sad because then we got home and she had flees too, So we say we rescued her. Yeah, no, that works. And anything off Craigslist was rescued no matter what it is. But it's couch, a human, yeah, a dog, anything? Is that any good part of town to be And it's in general, like you just need to know exactly where you're gonna go in those places and don't go anywhere else. Nope. I have two dogs. We have a husky mix, a husky and she's also a hound. Oh so we got her. She was like this big she was just pulled her off the street. She was so aggressive that they told us she would never be able to be with her other dog. He was like a year older. They were like, she's so aggressive, you can't keep her in the same house. And we had aggression specialists come here and work with us because it's about us being able to be consistent with the dog. And the aggression special is like, she's so she was on the street so long, these traits will never leave her. She will attack and if she gets big, she'll kill your other dog. Whoa. And to Caitlin's credit, she was like that's tough. Okay, it didn't matter. This is the dog. So we're very consistent with her, and she's awesome. Now she's too she's not aggressive, she's actually opposite, annoyingly like loving her, her and the bulldog. She has a crate that she sleeps in, but it never closes, right, it's not a crate, but we create trained her early on to know, this is your house, this is your consistency. Yeah, and so it's her crate. But even but the bulldog will sometimes go lay in her crate and she'll just go lay in the bed beside it. But she's not aggressive at all. So she's just like, okay, cool. And so we've had her for two years. And then Stanley is a bulldog and he's in surgery today is fourteenth surgery. Whoa we got him? I mean he had six surgeries in his first year. He had a lot of stuff from eye weener, no, that's but it's really him, it's really him. But he had all these surgeries and so he lived in a cone. So it's really hard to instill any sort of discipline in because of that. But he's a great dog now. But he tores acl one leg all the way in two had surgery, miserable rehab because these three's fat dogs towards the other one all the way in half. And today he gets sent off to the hospital. I'll be back tomorrow morning. But I actually just posted this walking over here. This is me give him a pep talk this morning. Here you go, Oh my gosh, you don't even know English, so you don't know what surgery is. But when you're done that leg, he's gonna be all better. Okay, And I'm sorry I can't teach you this morning because you'll vomit all over the doctor. I love it very much. Hopey for concergery. Okay, buddy, high five? Oh my gosh, he high fives. So yes, I love my dogs. I'm set just and my wife never had dogs growing up, so these are her first dogs. And it's fun to see that her. Yeah, she was like, we never had dogs, I don't like and she just loves them. It's like I told you, I told you, you tell me I'm an idiot. I told you you're the idiot. You said you didn't like dogs. Except I don't call her radio because she beat me. Okay, look, Hayley, we've we've we've done it all, we've said it all. First of all, it's great to see the trajectory that's happening now because you deserve it. And I will say I would say the same thing to do off the air. Getting to this place on the chart is good for one of two reasons. One either this song keeps going or two it's crazy momentum for the next one. Okay, it literally is like, for some reason, you're in five weeks levels like, well, we can't get past that's they're gonna go to a song immediately. Yeah, and that's what's good. So you've hit that spot that actually allows you to have another really strong shot. Worst case, that's worst case scenario. Okay, best cases, let's go. Let's go best case. Let's go. Oh may I hope we get so famous forget who I am in two years? That would be that's soul to make goals to for you to walk out and be like, who's that guy? It's like white ain't gonna that could be him? That ain't happening. Look, Haley Witters at Hailey Witters follow her everything she ain't can we have like four seconds of it? Mind? So way, don't get sued by the music police. Everything. We'll get sued by the music place if we play over five seconds. Oh my gosh. Brutal, brutal exactly, the music police. That's you and your people though. So talking with how was it doing like late night TV for the first time? Oh my god, that's one of those things, is like for the first time I get to do would you do Kimel? So insane? Yes, yes, he say, tell me about it Kimmel? Very like a publicist called Monday night, Hey, can you do Kimmel on Wednesday? Sure, jumped on a plane, flew out, very cool, like honestly, just hung in our trailers. Um, they had great snack selection. We did two takes, just ran through this song twice. I got to meet Jimmy. He was very sweet, took a few photos and it was done like a yeah. And then it was kind of nice because we were like pre taped. I don't know if I was supposed to say that, but we were pre taped. But it was kind of nice because the day of you could be like, I'm gonna be on Kimmel all night without the nerves and knowing it was good. I didn't see it, so I didn't know. I was like, oh, I got it because I was like, she's in a pre tape. If I know I did good, yeah, if it's like live, I'm like, I don't know, I may suck at this. I don't want body watching quite yet. That's awesome. And then I saw it may have been around the same time that Kelly Clarkson did a cover up because she comes out and sings at the beginning. Yes, and I've done her show before and she she did a queen song and she crushed it. I was like, oh, yeah, forgot she's like one of the greatest singers ever too. Yeah. But then she did one of your songs. Yeah, like the next morning. Oh, it was like the next morning really. Yeah. It was really strange where it was like all and it was like kind of funny because I had just been on Kimmel. But again, like I guess like back Home demo or something. Every like woman I know back home texting me like you were on Kelly Clarkson this morning, and I was like, I was on Kimmel last night too, you know. But it was like, Kelly, Man, that's awesome, O, congratulations, I'd love to see it. I'm super proud. For you and you guys, go follow Haley on Instagram and TikTok and just listen to her singing, listen streamer music. But also you do enough singing and places and on social media so people can actually hear you sing without a processor without like it's just it's so good, you're so good. You're so good, and I love to see it. Okay, at Haley Woods, go follow her and her car's fine, so don't worry about that. And there are no tornados, Mike, We're all good, good, okay, thank you, and we will conclude by Haley. This has been a Bobby Cast production.