Bears-Pats recap & best coaching jobs (w/Bill Barnwell)

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Speaker 1: Fields ticks off? What's touchdown bars? What Fields throws the Harvard touchdown? Montgomery is in for the touchdown? What a night to the ground games of the Bears. It was supposed to be a coronation for Bill Belichick on Monday Night football, but the Bears and Justin Fields had different ideas. Thirty three to fourteen on Monday Night in Foxborough. That's the Chicago Bears first victory in Foxborough. Ever, how is that even possible? Well, they don't play there that much. I am joined on Monday Night by Bill Barnwell, and I am so excited, uh for Bill to be here and to revel uh in my misery. Welcome Bill, How are you doing? Thank you for staying up late. You make it sound like that's a common trope in our friendship. Is that that? That is really what I'm stuck around for. Just revel Well, you've been You've had to wait. You know you you are a Giants fan, and so you've had the upper hand and some some big spots. But I do feel like the rest of the country enjoyed how much Patriots fans lost their mind and zappy fever and we're booing their first round pick from a year ago Mac Jones and then going crazy for Zappy and they take a lead and then the air just it's totally taken out of the stadium and they end up getting blown out. I do feel like there's probably a little extra joy for much of the country and seeing all those sad Patriots fans faces. Yeah, I mean, you're right, I I think in general, though maybe I'm basing that on the text that I got from Mark and Dan right after the game to presenting the broader NFL watching public, which is not unfair. I think they they have very fine opinions themselves. They're slightly biased, But I think I don't know about you, obviously, you watch a lot of football. I can't think of a game where a player came in was so hot, like a player who was being begged for by the crowd early in this game comes in like such an immediate fire underneath the team and then fizzles out so quickly over the course of the ensuing two quarters, Like even with um was it. Mike White was the Jets at the quarterback last year. Mike White at least had a really good game and then kind of struggled the following week or a couple of weeks later. Um, this was really like a whole life cycle in the course of about forty minutes of football time. It was crazy. It was truly like a telenovela. It was great entertainment. The only thing that would have been better is if the game, you know, stayed close. But there was so much going on when the Patriots took out Mac Jones at the end of you know, a rough first quarter for Jones, and I have, you know, a little notes in front of me. Bill. You can't see me because your camera is off, and I respect that decision. Um, you have moved out into your main room of your house. Your wife is sleeping in your bedroom, and you're staying up late, um to do this with me, and so I really appreciate that. But if you could see me, you could see my note card and the first thing written on it is all about the bears, because I want to give the bears their love. This really was a big night for them, and we will talk a lot about that. But we just started on the Zappy and Mac things. So now I just think let's let's stay there. We can we can go in I know, the the zappy Mac thing is crazy because mac Jones was getting booed, or at least the Patriots offense was getting booed. After mac Jones starts the game and they go three and out twice. This is and before he throws a bad interception. And in those two drives and they were three and outs, they had some bad running plays, they had a penalty, they had mac Jones maybe holding onto the ball too long, not making quick decisions like he did as a rookie. But it was like the sample size of two or three, you know, past plays, and they were already booing. They already started chanting for Zappy. And so after mac Jones makes a couple of plays uh and drives the ball down the field, he throws uh a pretty unforgivable interception where he's outside of the pocket and just throws it up for grabs. And he and he made a few of those plays earlier in the season, which which he really didn't much as a rookie, and at that point everyone wanted Zappy. Zappy comes in and has a four play touchdown drive where he's got a wide open screen to Stevenson and a wide open Jacoby Meyers down the field and then a three play touchdown drive, and at that point it felt like the Beatles had just landed in New York. And during that time, the Patriots had come back from attend nothing deficit to take the lead fourteen ten, and it was like it was an experience, Bill, What what was your experience watching this? So two things came to mind for me with this sequence, and I'll start with the mac Jones side of things. Number One, we've all seen situations where a quarterback was struggling, a veteran starting quarterback was struggling, and and the fans wanted to see that young, exciting, uh you know, promising backup get his opportunity. The starting quarterback in this situation situation is usually not like twenty four years old. And I think that's the word part about this is that mac Jones was getting the oh, we're sick of you, we want to see something fresh and new treatment from the fans of mac Jones is in his second season as Patriots quarterback, like he was getting the oh, we're excited to see mac Jones treatment. Last year, the second year as Patriots order back, and he's averaged seven point four yards per attempt as a pro, including eight point one yards per attempt in his brief three games this year, like he has not been great to start the season with turnovers, and obviously Zappy was very good in his two start sample. But it just seems so strange to me that Patriots fans were like, oh, yeah, I get this first round pick, who's the future of our franchise? The hell off the field, we have to see Zappy right now. There's no alternative for us, right And that the Patriots fed into this by letting reporters know or reporters finding out that both quarterbacks were likely to play in this game, Adam Schefter reported before the game. But I also saw a few times during the week from Patriots reporters that they said, don't be surprised if both end up playing. I also think, and this is why you know, I have a tricky time as a Patriots fan, because Patriots fans, like in the stadium, often annoy me to the nd degree on Twitter, no one's more annoying than Patriots fans. And this is the sort of thing that that drove me crazy, and now that I'm thinking deeply about it, like part of it is the sports radio atmosphere there there were some negative reports about mac Jones that did not become a national story. Um. He also didn't seem comfortable in the new Map Patricia system, and he had one or two commons slip out publicly that kind of expressed his lack of comfort when they were struggling in training camp in the beginning of the season. And then there's some reports and Michael Lombardi was was one of them, uh out there just like about his attitude or just total nonsense stuff about he got too big for himself when he went to the Pro Bowl, And I think that all feeds into it. And then ultimately you look at Zappy and he played well, he improved the last couple of weeks, and everyone just wants this to be Brady again. That's the thing. Like they want Bailey, Zappy, this kid from Western Kentucky to come in and it's just Tom Brady again. And I just haven't seen anything out of him to make me think like this guy is going to be a better option than Zappy. But I mean, then Mac Jones, but it makes you wonder, like what do they gotta do next week? And this is not going to be something that goes away anytime soon. I mean, we're not that far removed from fans wanting Mac Jones to be the next Tom Brady, and frankly, he was ahead of tom Brady in terms of tom Brady's development, given that tom Brady did not play really during his rookie season. I I know some of the reports that came out about his attitude were proven to be just false based on random DMS that went to reporters who reported them as fact. Exactly. I should have pointed that out was a problem, and again, like Frankly, I don't. Tom Brady's attitude was not always great as Patriots quarterback. He was not always the most humble quarterback or the easiest person to do deal with. It didn't matter when they were winning football games. And I think what really stood out to me about this situation was how Bill Belichick handled Mac Jones in this game. Because we've see a Belichick bench pretty much every place, any player at any position who makes a serious mental mistake, Belichick is comfortable benching that guy for the entire game, or for the next week, or for weeks to come. Isaiah Win is this year's example, where he wasn't even active for this game after mental mistakes throughout the season. They put an injury designation on it, but I am with you that I think it was more about him just getting benched. Right, and mac Jones throws an interception which was a bad play. He saw cover two before the stop. He threw a play through past that would have been a covered to beater. The Bears had rotated to cover three after the stop. It was a contested past. An incredible interception, by the way, like, like just a ridiculous the second round pick who has been a nice story for them, Yeah, incredible pick. But mac Jones did not play after that moment, even though Bill Belichick came out at halftime and said we're going to play mac Jones and Billy Zappy after halftime, And even though we didn't really see a lot of evidence that mac Jones was physically struggling with his high ankle sprain in this game. He was running fine. He had a bunch of scrambles for games and more yards than passing yards. Bill, Yes, that is the like, like, it wasn't like the ankle was the issue here where that seemed to be holding him back. So it seemed like basically Bill Belichick used this opportunity to bench mac Jones for making a stupid mental mistake, which maybe he doesn't do that in a typical situation, but it felt like, at the very least, tough love from a coach who's known for tough love with his players. I want to get into some of that. And again, we're gonna get to the Bears, but I think let's do this quarterback situation move on. I like these Monday night recaps, bill Um, because it's our chance to kind of dive into these teams a little deeper than we have time to do later in the season. And this quarterback situation is is fascinating. I'm curious just what you think of Bailey. Zappy has now played as much this season as Mac Jones, and the sample size we're basing mac Jones tonight on was to be clear, three for six uh for thirteen yards in an interception. He through six passes, he ran a little too quickly a few times, to three possessions. They didn't score one big mental air. What have you seen from Zappy in general and especially tonight. I mean, I think we saw a guy who can be very decisive with the football, you know, I think the the The swing pass he got out to orm Ndre Stevenson against the big plates was just perfect, thorough, perfect time, perfect situation, and a great region know exactly where to get the ball out quickly. Um. I think you see a guy who has sipped on his passes. It's not like he doesn't have have a a pro caliber arm. During slant story out he was able to make those throws and look like he had an NFL caliber arm, not exactly you know, Josh Allen kind of arm, but his throws were in the right places generally. UM, I think you saw a guy who is going to be struggling with protections, who's going to be struggling with what to do when there's pass pressure on him. And I think we saw something very similar to the Cooper Rush situation in Dallas, where when Cooper Rush was playing subpart defenses and wasn't in a position where he had to throw the football to catch up, and he was able to play from ahead and have the threat of a running game. Cooper Rush looked great, but the moment they came out and played the Eagles and got down to nothing and Cooper Rush had to throw for them to win football games, you saw what happened. Cooper Rush started turning the ball over and it was a much sloppier situation, And that this kind of what I felt he was Zappy where in the second half when the Bears strangely were going on a scoring spree, exactly had to match them. He was really not able to keep up. And I don't think it tells us that Billy Zappy's not to be in an NFL quarterback, but just that he's not some immediate solution in a way that Mac Jones is not for this football team. Right. The thing that drives me the craziest about this whole thing is like they're the same player. They're so similar. I think mac Jones has a higher ceiling, and I think people undersell what he showed last year as a rookie for being advanced in some meaningful ways as a rookie that to me um offer some real long term upside that they could get excited about. But he still would have to see it in a way that I was like excited about Geno Smith back in the day, in his early days, just that he's showing some processing ability bill like going to his second his third read like being pretty comfortable in the pocket, not letting, you know, pressure bother him too much. Like if you can show those things early, there's a chance you can have a pretty long, good career. I think Zappy has very so Miller's strength. They literally look the same if you put those two people on a lineup together, Like it's just like, look look at Bailey, Zappy, look at mac Jones. They look at the same and they're very similar players. And that that's why I think the whole thing is a little silly. Now. Zappy has shown way more uh than you would expect this quickly, and that that bodes well. Like I thought he was overwhelmed in the Packers game where he came in, and you can understand that. And and and they've done things for him like seven man protections and more play action. The running game has been really good, and you saw what happened when all that didn't quite work as well tonight. And I think most importantly, the rest of the team has just played better. There's so much focus on the quarterback and it is juicy, but ultimately I think mac Jones would have won those last couple of games against two of the worst defenses in the league. The Browns and the Lions, and he would have played well, and they weren't gonna win this game no matter if Zappy played all four quarters or if Mac Jones uh play four quarters. So Uh, it's a situation where I think Belichick came into this game bill with the plan to rotate the players, and like he knows, he knows this is going to drive people crazy. He knows, but ultimately he doesn't care enough. He thinks this is the right thing to do. And it is something he's very consistent at almost any other position, especially with young players, that he rotates them. Whether it's the offensive line, whether it's cornerbacks where the defense WindMan that's more typical, whether it's running backs, receivers like this is. These are things he does. And I think he has this idea in his head that these are two young quarterbacks and this is what I'm gonna do, and and I'm gonna see how I feel after this game, and um, I think the way it went it just is messy. With the Jets next week, it's messy. I have a stat question for you, Greg Rossenthal. The stat is QBR ESPN is all encompassing quarterback stat and speaking to your argument that these are the identical quarterbacks. Billy's Happy's QBR after four games is thirty five point Oh. Mac Jones QBR after four games is thirty three point nine. So there is a one point one difference in QBR between these two quarterbacks who are similar in and the Zappy Heads will say, well, like one of those passes were tipped and the other time it was over. It's like those were the times when when Mac Jones got into trouble this year, I will say Mac Jones hasn't looked as comfortable in Matt Patricia's system period, and that then included tonight. I'm gonna give you a couple of Belichick quotes and then we'll move on to the Bears. Uh. He did not, of course, uh say who the starter is going to be against the Jazz, and he won't assume until next Sunday. We'll see if there's reports he said Jones wasn't benched due to performance. Jones was aware he wasn't going to play the whole game and then ankle, The ankle was a factor in that decision. Don't believe the ankle part. Do believe that he was aware he wasn't going to play the whole game. But I also believe mac Jones probably thought he was going to come back into the game. Belichick says he would have if the score didn't get out of hand. He shot down the notion that the Patriots would platoon quarterbacks moving forward, even though he in the same sentence essentially admitted he was planning to platoon quarterbacks today. So I think there's some lying going on in there. Well. Great, as a Patriots fan, as a observer of the NFL, what do you think the Patriots should do next week? Oh? I think they should start mac Jones. You know, the fan part of it annoys me, and um, that's just something that we could both agree. We hate the fans. I'm just saying that mac Jones is like a human being, and I'm not saying they should be easy on them. But when they are booing like crazy in the atmosphere that they have and then it went crazy, I don't think it's crazy to view these two guys as human and their teammates as human and think that actually it could have a real impact on what's going on and not gonna help Mac Jones uh and his performance and what's happening, and maybe that influences you a little at least in the moment tonight. Is that crazy? No, But I think if anyone's going to be able to get past what the crowd thinks about anything, it's Bill Belichick now, yeah, and Mac Jones is going to have to as well. And I was already getting people texting me of friends and my buddy burke who we've talked about on this show, who helps us, you know, with our live shows. Uh, Mike burke Witz was always like, oh, they're gonna trade mac Jones like they can. It's like, let's come down here. They not only drafted a quarterback behind Tom Brady, the greatest of you know, one of the greatest of all time or the greatest every couple of years in the first three rounds, they drafted someone more handsome than him that he didn't particularly seem to enjoy and all but decided that he was gonna be there next guy. And they let those two guys just sit round while not giving Tom Brady a contract extension. I think they'll be fine letting Mac Jones and h Bailey's Appy feel uncomfortable in the situation maybe for years. Maybe this is the first of many postgame conversations about this weird situation. Bill, So should I delete my tweet that said starting quarterback Mac Jones? No, I mean you can keep it because what's the harm you might you know, like in the off chance that you're right. Um, I mean it does make some sense. Uh, if they were willing to pay enough, it's you know, the Belichick would probably trade anyone. But I think I think one thing they do in a smart way is draft quarterbacks every year. Like, even when you have Tom Brady, quarterbacks are worth a lot, and it's great to have two good ones. And right now we see a lot of Patriots quarterbacks playing around the league, Jacoby Prisett, Jimmy Garoppolo, Like this is I'm not saying these are like great players, but it's good to just draft quarterbacks. And I think they like having to. Can I point out something about the Jets before we get to the Bears, the team the Patriots playing next week. I've mentioned this. I don't feel like it's got a lot of attention. It seems obvious to me that it's a very important thing when it comes to evaluating the five and two New York Jets. They have one win this year against the starting quarterback, and they may not have to play a starting quarterback against the Patriots next week. They beat Kobe Rosette with the Browns. Uh, Kenny Pickett came in for these Steelers. It's Mr Bhiskey and Kenny Pickett, whichever one you think is not the starter played half the game there. They had Skyler Thompson and Teddy Bridgewater in the Dolphins game. Of course they did beat Aaron Rodgers. But last week they get Brett Rippon and beat the Broncos, and they might get uh they make it Billy's Appyous the backup quarterback for the Patriots this upcoming week. So this is something I would I'd recommend for NFL teams. Make sure you play five backups in the first half of the season. It's a really good way to advance on your rebuilding project. It's a perfect week to have Jets Patriots because that's a big game for the Atriots, especially now at three and four, and that's a perfect transition because I think the Jets are a great example of how this is a defensive year in the NFL. Not saying great defenses are gonna win the Super Bowl. But teams are winning games often because of their defense, and the Bears played well on both sides of the ball tonight, But they absolutely had the better defense in this game. They had more playmaking, they had a more consistent pass rush, and they did a much better job stopping the Patriots running attack. This Matt Eberflus defense has gotten like a little bit better each and every week, and I think they're a pretty good defense moving forward. That he always has a sound defense. They haven't had a great pass rush, but that's at least part of the reason why the Bears are here at three and four and in the NFC STU. Yeah, I mean absolutely, and I think that it's very similar to what we saw it the Colts, where when Heberflus took over in Indianapolis, that was well, they don't have the pieces they're rebuilding on defense, I don't really have a lot to work with. And typically just about every season Eberflus was there in Indianapolis, which by the way, is a disaster this year after he left necessarily correlated, but a different conversation. Um Eberflus has typically gotten more out of his roster than you might look at from the names on the play sheet each and every week, and I think that's the case here. Um, you know, this is a team that that really bottled up the Patriots rushing attack and put those quarterbacks in situations where they had to throw. And yes there were moments where, for example, like you said, Jacobe Myers just a totally blown coverage on that touchdown, Dante Parker made a crazy catch in double coverage. That's gonna happen. You have Wreker series making great plays. If you're gonna blow a coverage, not much you can do. But on the whole, this is a very good team when it comes to sort of playing within its limits and playing as a unit, sort of like a a younger, less talented or less experienced version maybe of the Bengals. He saw kind of impressed during the second half in the postseason a year ago where he really felt like they were just a better team than they were individual players. And I think we saw sort of the upside here where the few stars they do have played like stars in this game. I mean, Robert Quinn did not get a sack, but he tormented Trent Brown this game. He was great in this game. Roquan Smith had an interception in this game, right, a second interception. Brisker, like you said, who has been very promising this year, had a very impressive pick on a play where the Bears fooled Mac Jones, who was a pretty smart quarterback for a second year, second year passer. Um, this was a game where it felt like they had the answers for the Patriots, and the Patriots aren't necessarily running the most complicated offense on the planet, especially with Zappy in the game. But it only felt like outside of a couple of plays in this game, they were dominating on the road. Right, they got Nack Jones this spot basically in all three of those drives, almost every time he dropped back, and that was a big reason why he didn't look comfortable. He didn't look good. I was skeptical of the ebra flus higher just because, yeah, you hire a defensive guy, I really want to like a major schematic advantage in those cults. Defenses were solid, but they weren't overwhelming, and so I wasn't inspired. But you can kind of see the vision. And one you mentioned, um getting players to play above their talent level as a whole. And one thing I always look for in new coaches, is well, how are these players compared to they looked with their last coaches, and at least compared to last year. Jalen Johnson playing better, Eddie Jackson a couple of down years playing better, Roquan Smith already was great, playing as great or better. Um, I think that those are all really promising signs. And it's really just the last two weeks. They've been fine before that, they haven't been great or or terrible. But the last two weeks, I mean, they shut down Washington. I know Washington, but they still shut down Washington. Two and fourteen yards is nothing to sneeze that in an NFL game. They basically didn't give up any points other than that like fumble over uh punt that happened that set the Washington up inside the five, and then they you know, two hundred and sixty yards and twelve first downs for the Patriots. So very good, very promising, And yet I've spent all this time not getting to the first point on my little card bill, which was justin fields. Of course, that was like the on field story of this game is justin fields. Uh running well, He's run well all year, but this time it felt like they emphasized it in terms of design runs. They run for two d forty three yards. As a team, they've had a couple of games like this, but more design runs out of fields, some great scrambles and a hundred seventy nine yards through the air on only twenty one throws, and some great scramble drills and a few plays from the pocket where he got to his second read. And look, if you just sprinkle those in along with the running game that they have, then we might have something here. I mean, this felt like coming off of the uh basically a mini by They played last Thursday, had the extra day even this week to get to Monday, so really, I mean plenty of time to prepare for this game. This felt like the most realized version of this Bears offense, right. I mean, this was a game where Justin Fields was booting a ton a ton of times. He was getting out of the pocket and having the opportunity to throw on the run, getting off his spot, and forcing the Patriots, who are very good at typically bottling up your quarterbacks, to not know where he was going to be at the beginning of the play. We saw that from the very first passing sequence of this game, and it continued throughout and and like you said, more designed runs. Phil was incredible as a scrambler in this game. He had a couple of third and long conversions. At least one third and long conversion I can think of where he came out of the pocket where basically he looked like he was about to get sacked and instead converted third and long set up points for the Bears. Um And this was a game where I felt like he as as on those design runs, added more of an element to this running running attack than we had seen in weeks past, even when they had been running successfully, it had really been more about Clil Herbert running in the context of the offense, which feels more as a scrambler, this felt like he was a an equal part of the offense, especially on third down in situations where they needed to convert. This is a game where they were great on third down eleven for eighteen against the Patriots, which kept that defense on the field, tired of them out, and I think led to a lot of the success they had in the second and half of this game. I third and lungs, A lot of third and lungs. I mean the play that he made. I think it was third and seven and he got flushed out and again it looked like that there were so many players where they could have sacked him and he got out of it. And on at least three of them he completed passes down the field when he could have run. But the play I'm thinking of is the one to commit where he just puts a beautiful throw down the sideline. He he maybe not going to be the most consistent quarterback this year throwing, I think that's obvious. But if he has a handful of those each game, and he had a couple on the early drives to where he had a chance to run and he actually didn't. He found wide open receivers in the middle after breaking outside the pocket. That that's that's all the I think need to at least be competitive with the running game that he brings in that Montgomery and Herbert bring. Okay, so on that commit catch very disputed. Uh, conversations happening about that catch on the internet. Break. I know you were busy doing work, but on the internet there was speculation that cool Comet was trying to oky doke the Patriots into using a challenge on a play where he caught the ball believed that he was trying to fool the Patriots. He didn't know like he was catching it and his back is to the sideline and his heads flipped all around. I think he just thought he landed out about because you know, it's a split second thing where like his legs landed in bounds and then his back was quickly out of bounds after that, Like, yeah, I don't think he was playing the next level. Chi. I saw a play this week where Sante Samuel Jr. Clearly dropped the interception hen replay, and he was so confident that he ran the length of the field sideline to sideline, signaling I caught it. I caught it. I caught it, begging Brandon Staley to challenge the play when again football was standing on the ground without Samuel's hands underneath. Maybe Commett eident. Maybe Commet is just a weirdly like I don't know about you, but like every time I finished a podcast and like driving home and I just think of all the things that I could have done better and that I said wrong, and like why am I so bad at this? Maybe cold Commet is like us that there is no pro athlete like us Greg. Unfortunately, that's why we're point Because that's why we're here, I would be surprised. I also don't think that cold Combetu was Okay Doke in the Pattriots, though that would be incredible. I think someone will do that eventually, but I don't think it was cold Covet in this situation. No, I don't think so. And um, I'm looking I really am looking forward to watching them because this is one of the things that's good if you if you try to watch as many games as you can't you know fields is best three passing games of the season are the last three and they haven't been like amazing. But I would say, like the third best passing game of the season was three weeks ago, the second best passing game of the season. Granted, I know they only scored seven points, but if you watched that game, it wasn't like a brutal game. It was it was passible how he threw the ball. And then his best passing game of season was tonight. Like you see an upward trajectory. So that's what more can you ask for? Yeah, and I mean I think we're seeing not just an upward trajectory from Fields, but from sort of the offensive structure, and I think the offensive line is bad and they're losing. Um. They lost an offensive line in this game. Maybe there was two offensive Lucas Patrick hurt. Yeah, I'm Patrick got hurt. They and he was playing center for them. They had to bring Sam Mustafer back in. Kevin Jenkins got hurt for I think he went down but came right back. I'm not mistaken, But I mean, I think about the Eagles last year where they look kind of lost the first six weeks of the Sea Bounce on offense that worked quarterback behind their runningquarter. I don't think they're going to be as good as I do think. I can believe that the offense is going to get structurally better and Fields is going to look more confident and more comfortable in that offense as the season goes along. I don't think it's gonna be linear. I think they'll be hiccups. Then they'll be games where they struggle. I think they'll be depressing moments when Fields does make mistakes because he's still a young quarterback. But I think so far as a pro, Justin Field's best moments have typically been when he sort of figets the scheme and he forgets what he's doing and just reacts off of instinct and makes a great play with his legs tonight, right, And and I think this week it felt a little more within the structure of offense, which I think is really exciting. I agree. I mean, they they raised the ceiling of what I am reasonably expecting of the Bears tonight this season because in this week that we talked about this is a defensive year, it's a bit of a running year, and this is all relative to what the last few years. Obviously, you still need a great passing game in the end, I think, but here are some final there's there are some rushing totals from games that they've had just this season tonight to forty three last week, to thirty seven against the Giants, one forty nine against the Texans, two eighty one against the Packers one eighty. So it's just like when all that was happening, it was just like, Man, if you just get a little bit of passing here and now some defense, it's like they can be in these games and they can maybe win seven or eight games and that probably will have you mathematically alive in week eighteen. There there is a certain kind of football nerd who is who has has Bears Falcons in week eleven circled on their calendar. That is going to be the quite there. I'm not heavy. Uh, those two quarters are up. But here's the thing. The Patriots are kind of like the Falcons. Like they were running the ball on first down, down three scores, just like the Falcons were on Sunday against the Bengals. The Patriots were doing it tonight and not running Harry up. Oh my god, We've spent thirty four minutes on this game, Bill Barnwell, I haven't even said the one thing that decided this game place and then we'll move. There were six fumbles in this game, great Rosa. The Bears were covered all six of them. Yeah, that it was That was key. I think Fields might have had what do you have three? I felt like he had the one that was not a snap, So that's credited to him. Technically he's credited with four. And it's true. So many times I'm watching these games and it's all about like how the ball bounces off a tip or off a you know, squirt in the pile or whatever. But this game I don't think ultimately was totally decided by that. I think the Bears were just well, I mean, but I'm team they could where they lose a couple of fumbles early, the Patriots got a couple of short fields and score, then the Bears have to throw to catch up. If the yeah, if the Patriots picked up four of those fumbles, instead of being minus three in turnovers, they were plus three, You're right. Obviously it's a it's a totally different game. But wow, Bill Belichick, what a humbling that this was supposed to be the whole passing George Hollis thing. And I really got a haircut. I noticed, Um he gave he gave ebra fluse like a very hug, long hug and conversation at the end, which I don't know. I think maybe that was because he was saying thank you for kneeling at the one yard line instead of putting a forty burger on us like I would have done to you at the end. Um, I think Belichick was ready for this, this coronation, and uh, instead it was a nightmare. All Right, that's it for game time. We do have some coaching talk the Big List with Bill Barnwell coming up after the break. I picked Bill a different little segment here at the end of this show because I thought this game might not be that exciting, and I've got Barnewell on, and like, let's fill some more time with Barnwell. Let's take advantage if we're gonna make him stay up late. You told me you stayed up till four am last night writing this is easy. Oh for sure that that typical Sunday is between four and five AM for me. So we're recording this in the morning Eastern. This is a OK. I'll give you like five it will be like five or ten. But we've gone longer now than any Monday night football recap already, and I haven't gotten to my top six list tonight. The top six list is not a top six list because I wanted to involve Bill and not just have it be my list that he comments on. So instead of just like a pure top six list in honor of George, Papa hallis Papa Bear. I don't know what they call him, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, you know all the great coaches out there, We're each gonna pick three coaches who have done a great job this year, and we will keep it quick and get you out of here. Uh. And you um sent me a text this week, UH that at one point said, the best podcast duo of the year gets the best game of the year. And I don't think the game lived up to that. So let's let's do it as the best podcast duo. Let's deliver some more content. Bill. We're gonna give three coaches that we uh think I've done a great job this year. Just any three coaches. And when you read another text that from me, you read it as I wanted a head coach, a coordinator, and a position coach. I meant it could just be any but you picked one of each. So I'm gonna do the same. Let's let's have you go. You can go first. I felt like that as a level of granularity that I can hit with you. I mean, if I'm doing other shows they want there's like eight coaches people know, and I have to name three of those coaches I can get. Okay, I do want to ask a quick question. Actually, when you say the best game of the year gets the best podcast two the year, I read that as like Barnwell, for a second, I read that, and then I realized you're not like this. Maybe I would be like this if I said that and made a joke that you were almost saying you're wasting me on Bears pats. Really, Greg, I thought that's what you were kind of saying, like why didn't you save me for a big time one late in the year, And I actually thought he's right, maybe should have saved him. Absolutely not, I was being facetious. But what I would say is that I think I know from my perspective, I have to podcasts every single week, and the football is not always great every single week. I think you need someone you have experience on a report with. We've done each other for fifteen years now, so thinking this game might have been bad, yeah, that actually was part of it, you know. Uh yeah, I thought, uh, I thought we got at it all. But that's why I added this segment. And let's let's go through it. Give me a coach. I don't know where you want to start, but give me a coach like this year, and we'll go through these quick. I will start at the very top. I will start with a head coach and a guy who gets plenty of attention and I still think does not get enough and that is Mike Frebel. He took mine. I told you, I bet you before the show we were going to have one coach, at least one coaching comment. I thought we're gonna have the same coordinator. But Mike Frabel is head coach. Do you want to give me your explanation for why Mike f Abel is the head coach, Greig, just because it's sort of impossible to know exactly what a head coach does only winning records. For Mikey, that's sure, seems sure, seems like like Mike Tomlin. Sure seems like happened to be good for you, right exactly. But the thing that I think you can measure is like when you look at the team, are they greater than the some of their parts? And are they that consistently? And that's that's Mike Frabel. I mean, I think they do a very good job in Tennessee. And this is Rebel. It happens on both sides of the football. I think he serve some of the credit of developing their young players. They have guys breakthrough each and every year. I mean last year it was Christian Fulton. Harold Landry had a queer year. But now this season. They lose Landry before the year to a tour in a c L. Taylor will one goes down either week one or week two, I think week to Trey l On Berk's their first round pick who they got after trading A. J. Brown. Their best receiver hasn't really been around this year because he's been heard secondary has been inconsistent. Derrick Henry, even though he's been better with the past few weeks, not the same guy he was at his peak. And yet they keep winning football games. They're winning with Dennis Daiott left tackle. He is their wide receiver to Rashad Weaver has been their primary pass rusher when Buddy Pree has been hurt, Like you should not be able to keep doing this, and yet there one tackle of state Quon Barkley in the backfield or one field goal at the very end of that game from being five and one, like yeah, and they got blown out in that game, and that's you could you could flip a couple of other games, but you're right. They also managed to like get guys in quarterbacks faces very like quickly, just like the game. Like they do a good job coaching up their defensive line. Whoever who is their defensive line coach. I'm putting you on the spot, Grave Digger right now, justin Graver. You've made him so happy Bill, by the way he raised his hands in victory when you said, Mike Rabel every year. Okay, Darryl Williams, wait, what did you what did you forget? You forgot it? You forgot it once again? Ready to go? Yeah? Yeah, Terrell Williams, Well, he does a great job. They get unblocked defenders. All right, I'm gonna just leave you Mike Rabel as the coach. We both picked him as the coach, and I'm just gonna go with an offensive coordinator, and that's Shane Waldron. I have talked about Gino to the point of an aulliance and exhaustion of almost anyone in my life, listeners, co hosts, friends, family members, my children. Um, when was the last time Shane Waldron was brought up on this show? Justin like, literally have we said the names Shane Waldron in the now last month? Maybe when the Seahawks hired him. I mean, I think we've brought him up in passing here or there, but it's mostly in context of Russell Wilson and We talked about Rabel doing a good job getting more out of his players than expected. When you look at that offensive line with two rookies, and they certainly have talent at the skill position, but you look at Gino and you look at him being a system quarterback. You know, I'm a huge Geno fan obviously, and he's made a lot of big time throws, but I think the thing he does best is kind of does what the offense tells him to do in a calm manner. Well, who's running that offense. It's Shane Waldron, the guy who was getting killed last year. Are parts of the Russell Wilson era, and that offense is working fantastic. It's working better on balance then Kyle Shanahans or Sean mcveigh's the same coaching tree he was in, in the same division he was in. Like, he's running the best offense in that division. So kudos to Shane Waldron. Nice job. Um. Do you believe the Seahawks are going to sign Gino Smith to an extension during this shouldn't? They should know now? I it's already annoying me that people are getting into the Jalen Hurts contract extension talk now. It's like, let's just let this play out, Like, why do we have to do that? That's not fun. Gino is a little different because he's on a one year, one million dollar contract. He's in a different situation, So I think it's a legit conversation. I don't think they will um, but we'll see. If we get to December and they're still in first place, maybe that changes. I have bad news from the The six element of this list that you've asked me to put together as my positional coach is Seahawks running back coach Chad Morden, assistant and run game coordinator below Shane Waldron, and I thought about he's been there since seen obviously he's been believe he's been the run game coordinator, the running backs coach since and they have had so many different backs come through and play at a really high level. Chris Carson of course for the few years there. Shot Penny, who was the first round pick but had injuries last year, was I mean a top three running back when he was healthy at the end of last season, and then kept that up this year before fracturing his ankle. And now Kenneth Walker, their second round pick has looked incredible so far this year, both Walker and Penny averaging six point one yards per carry, Seahawks on the whole averaging five and a half yards per carry, number one in the NFL, and again without a great offensive lines. Morden, who's the run game coordinator there, so he's the one dialing up the run plays and then also coaching the running backs. I think a very underrated coach for the role he plays in that Seattle offne Well, they always roll out four starting running backs a year and then you're always like, Wow, this guy is amazing, and they're they're all patient and they follow their hole as well, and there they have consistency, which I really like that. That was a good choice when when you when I realized you were going to do a position coach, now I felt shamed uh to doing it. So this was like, admittedly a bit of a panic last minute move, but I'm gonna go with Marcus Dixon, the defensive line coach of the Broncos, who's working under someone who would have been a good coordinator. Pick a Gero ever, oh of the Broncos. Well, you got the Broncos to what I have some bad news My coordinator picks erro Ever, that's fine. We need to get out of here anyways. Let's condense these conversations at zero. Ever, another name that we haven't talked about much on this list, and he was like a Vic Fonio acolyte, but you know, I hadn't been with him that long. Has been in the NFL for fifteen years. And man, they are just a really tough defense to find a breakdown in or a hole in. And yes, they're talented, but he's taken that defensive line, Marcus Dixon specifically, and they run a lot of games. They're they're creative and just different guys are coming off the bench and they're all playing well. Yeah, and I mean I think they're playing a lot better than they even did a year ago. Road numbers loved them last year. Stats like d v o A not so much. They were twentie d v A last year, third in the NFL this year, number one in points per drive allowed, second in EPA per play, and that's without Justin Simmons. For a chunk of the year. They had Cadence Stearns filling in, who looked great. In simmons is absence, haven't had Randy Gregory for a chunk of the year, it's been Baron Browning, who suddenly looks like like a top ten hurt. I got hurt on Sunday and is gonna miss some time, which is really a bummer because he was exciting. But Gregory Darby's done for the year. DJ Jones um to the defensive line element to this has been better here than he was in San Francisco. I mean, they just have so many different players may tame plays, and I think, like like we talked about, you know, when you're getting more out of the guys you have on the people before you, especially when it was Vic Fancio, one of the most respected defensive coaches in the league. I think Everro has been one of the more valuable coordinators in football so far. He's improved the Fngio defense and m is another coach that Sean McVeigh loss. Ever I was with the Rams the last four to five years five years and was their passing game coordinators. So if you've got to give him, Nathaniel Hackett credit for anything, ever the best, that's what I'm saying. Give him credit for the defensive staff that they hired. The coaches do get credit for that, because Nathaniel I had could use a little credit and a little help right now because it's dark and they're writing, um, their writing. Could he be fired during the season? Articles already in Denver local papers, which is rough. But he did a nice job with that defense, and that makes me think that there's at least a chance their season isn't over. But the podcast needs to be over soon. Bill, you've you've said it all, and UM, I hope you haven't woken up your wife. I would never wake up my wife. I'm smart enough to know by marriage. My marriage is more important than uh, finishing a podcast with my friend Greg Rosenthal. Really, so she's so she's up, or she like has a sound machine on, or you're just not that louder. You've got like a nice big house where you're where you're far apart. We have a eight hundred squarefoot apartment in Washington, d C. So I am trying to be relatively quiet, but I'm hoping. I think there's a white noise machine work working its magic. I think there's a white noise app maybe hopefully doing uh doing the work that needs to do. Um. If I'm wrong, if I am told in the morning that I was in fact waking up my my poor wife. Then I will personally blame you, Greg Rosenthal for getting me so excited about an exciting Monday night football game. I want you to and I've I've been in that position and I've woken up, um, you know, my wife, and it's a bad, embarrassing spot. I I just can't stop talking and I can't stop being loud. But they need to stop. Bill, we need to stop. So I hope your family is good and uh, you know you're part of my football family. We gotta get you back here. We've been We've been doing this talking for like you mentioned, fifteen years, since way back when you were at Football Outsiders. Check Bill out on his podcast, Bill Barnewell Show, and um on all his great articles and on Sports Center with s v P and on Debatable. Look, I know all of the Barnwell stuff. Is there anything else? I think? I feel like that's most. That's that's literally every single thing I do for ESPN. So that's it now. And like the best writer in the game, um, uh great at everything. Uh, but you gotta check out his writing. Get smarter and um and stop listening to this podcast. We will be back on Tuesday, Justin with another episode. Well Mike Garafolo sitting in for tomorrow show. It's a big week here head around the NFL for Bill Barnwell, Justin Graver, and Bill Belichick. Keep the call.