The Price of Ghost Hunting: Jay Wasley’s Haunted Reality

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[SPEAKER_02]: I've always been into the paranormal, the unknown.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had post Malone come to the museum.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was on an episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: They had an experience and after that, his plane crashed.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was on.
[SPEAKER_02]: He got into a crazy car crash and then his house was broken into... Come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm serious.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, to even to me, like there's moments where it's just like, it still blows my mind after all these years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as people who are somewhat skeptical, you really want to believe you do anything to believe, but you just don't know how.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been with the show 15 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: After everything I've seen, I've seen things left off the ground, we'll find by themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been dragged backwards.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something's grabbed my leg and pull me backwards and you see it on camera, I get pulled back and there's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had scratches appear in me, I've witnessed exercises and possessions, rituals, all kinds of things I've climbed through a mass plagued it.
[SPEAKER_02]: under Paris, 300 people, though, filled with human bones.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been in the Dracula's castle.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been all around the world doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these things still blow my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: But find this fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've sort of made me a believer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember seeing the show air?
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be like, that's true to what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not manipulated.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not made to go a certain way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's literally how it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've seen you like staring at me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's seen us like, are you mad?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think ghosts are real or is belief in the paranormal just something we chalk up to grief, desperation, or even maybe a need for attention?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it only the mentally unstable or the overly medicated who claimed to see spirits?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always wanted to believe there are people I've lost my father, my fiance, and of course I've longed for some sign that they're still with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But every time I've considered the idea that they might be reaching out of quickly brushed it off as wishful thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, conjuring up anything that feels tangible when it comes to spirits has always struck me as more of a mental breakdown than a message from the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you feel me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what I'm talking about?
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I found out one of the stars of Ghost Adventures on Discovery would be a guest on the show, I thought, okay, this could be interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: A cool behind the scenes peek into the series that's been running for 29 seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: That alone says something people want to believe.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I didn't expect was that Jay would actually shift something in me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not only a guy chasing Ghost on TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: He started out skeptical like me, he's technical, grounded, and observant.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, he's now one of the strongest believers on the team, because he's seen things the rest of us cannot explain.
[SPEAKER_01]: This conversation made me start to question my own certainty.
[SPEAKER_01]: It gave me a language I hadn't had before.
[SPEAKER_01]: About energy, presence, light and dark spirits, it cracked the door open for me to consider that maybe just maybe the line between the living and the dead isn't as definitive as we may think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're a believer or a skeptic, whether you've lost someone and wished they could reach back or whether you've rolled your eyes at paranormal shows and think it's all just for ratings, this episode might surprise you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely surprised me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for joining us today on Miss Intersted Day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks to have me here.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, very interesting topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: One that I think a lot of people don't believe in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess there are a lot of people to do because you guys are in 29 seasons of a show, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I want to get to the point though of like what it is that you guys do because there are so many non-believers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And before people stop listening to this podcast, I want them to give it a chance to believe.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me how you got into this, first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean, for me, I've always been into the paranormal, the unknown.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of as a child, I grew up just curious of everything, honestly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even just the paranormal, just knowledge.
[SPEAKER_02]: I studied different belief systems, different myths, different cultures, and kind of what they believed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I started finding there's all these, like, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: like crossovers that a lot of beliefs find these same things these same paranormal things that are happening uh... so it's kind of cool because it's an interest as a child and you grow up and you kind of you know real real world kicks in you get work and you go on like that uh... and then around two thousand and ten uh... i was doing television work uh... based around New York City doing a lot of reality tv as a camera guy sound guy
[SPEAKER_02]: And show reached out to me and just said, hey, uh, we've been hiring a local sound guy wherever we go, but sometimes we're in the middle of nowhere out in abandoned town, uh, so we're renewed for another season.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to bring on a full-time sound guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they brought me out just as their sound guy originally.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just another gig for me, so then I worked that and about a year after that being such a small group of people, we became close friends and then one day Zach who's the main host of the show, we were filming at Johnny Cash's house in Jamaica.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And which was wild because it was left just like he left it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like his shoes were there, his clothes were like his closets were full of all his clothes like it was just literally the day you left.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wasn't part of the investigation originally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our shows kind of split in the two parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first half of the show, we do a lot of research.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do history.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do preliminary investigation to kind of find out what's going and tell the story of
[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are these the claims of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the second half is just Investigators no crew no one else Bull lights off and we investigate so originally I was only part of the first half so I was there to record sound for the interviews history part
[SPEAKER_02]: And when they investigated Johnny Cash's house, Zach got an EVP, which is called electronic voice phenomena, which basically is when you record audio and say like right now we're recording, but you listen back and you hear a voice that's neither one of us, and it might be answering a question of ours, things like that, that's an EVP.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you hear Zach say, do you like Johnny Cash's music and you hear this, yeah, come right in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like pretty clear, and the next shoe were driving somewhere in Arizona and it's like, hey, check this EVP we got at Johnny Cash's house because you know, it was on a big music fan.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, do you think this sounds like Johnny Cash?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yeah, it actually does.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, you could take his voice and get a sample of the real Johnny Cash voice and do a waveform analysis.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then take that EVP and do away form analysis and almost like a vocal digital fingerprint if you will.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then kind of line them up and see how much it matches and he was like, you can do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah, I'm a tech nerd.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's like, all right, great.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll have you do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then that was my first time you brought me in front of the camera to do this show what you did.
[SPEAKER_02]: To do this analysis, which it did line up, which is pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then from there kept evolving, I kept kind of throwing more ideas out, being brought in for different experiments, different analysis, things like that, and it just kept evolving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Up until that moment though, where you like, okay, I'm just doing sound on a show, or did you really believe in what they were doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I remember, even the first episode, we actually flew out to Vegas, and we went out to a place called Goldfield, which is pretty much halfway between here in Reno, on all the mining town, and there's Goldfield Hotel, which is an infinitely be known.
[SPEAKER_02]: When they originally started the show, they did a documentary, and they called a brick flying through the air by itself, and that was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember the first time I was there, Aaron on the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, while we were setting up, he's like, just go down the basement by yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember, well, I was like, all right, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even filming.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, you know, just did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember seeing shadows and all kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, all right, there's this is wild.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I remember watching that episode when it came out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at this point, I worked in reality TV for years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of reality TV is kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: edited, it's made the look certain ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I remember when I was simply just a crew guy, I remember seeing the show air and being like, that's true to what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not manipulated, it's not made to go a certain way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's literally how it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And since then being more involved with the show and in front of the camera now, it's still the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have 100% creative controls.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have producers, networks, that's telling us how to do things, what to do,
[SPEAKER_02]: redo things like we have full control and we kind of approach every investigation personally I go in skeptically.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to just believe everyone's claims.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to just believe us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to experience it in document at first hand and that's what we try to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We try to actually document things and prove it the most scientific or multiple devices multiple ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay so explain to me though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well okay 29 seasons, how many episodes per season?
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... it's varies the network on airs and all kind of weird way i know we're well over three hundred episodes at this point i mean are you talking ten a season twenty a season probably i think twelve thirteen is probably on average so i asked that because you're finding at least thirteen that are terrible
[SPEAKER_01]: scenarios where you're finding something that is paranormal, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That seems hard to find if it's not there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or unless it's being staged or if it's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you guys even come up with the idea of where to go, what to look at?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so a lot of it is honestly it's fans social media today, a lot of fans reach out to us and they'll say hey there's a spot in my home town you should check out and then we take those things and we have researchers at work for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll send in ideas or they'll just find things and they basically put it all together to all the research for us and then ultimately they'll basically pitch five or six places to Zach and he ultimately is like that's do that one right have you ever gone into one and you're there in your filming and nothing happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we still air it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of our show and what makes it unique is it's us.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's our, it's ghost adventures.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the adventure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if we're not finding anything, it's still the process.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still go through the same process.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do a thing called even deep bunking where we might get terrified.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in the moment, but then also we've realized what it is, and we'll show you that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be like, oh, like, there was a point, I think we're up in a town called Pioch, Nevada.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're walking down the hallway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was at Nerf Center watching the monitors, and also near here, this crazy hiss, and it's pitch black.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one else is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to make you, you know, jump and get freaked out and Zack freaks out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then all of a sudden, we realize it was one of those little automatic air fresheners.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just going, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and we didn't know that, but in the moment, Sarah, fine, but we show you that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We said, you know, and then we kind of laugh at ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it is more our adventure and how we go through it, there was an episode that we didn't see at all at a home where this family was claiming, honestly, outrageous claims.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, six, six would appear on the walls or posters called on fire, they're wake up and their pants would be nailed to the wall, things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for us, it sounds great, that's, we want to experience this and see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went out there and we did our fall investigation and, you know, we left it as, well, we are there and nothing happened, you know, like we didn't capture any evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still showed you our process, what we went through and, unfortunately, we didn't get anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like Ghostbusters where you have like a little device and it says if you have spirits there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a lot of different devices.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is in a way.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess one of my favorites, which is, you know, not to get too techy, but I like it because it's grounded in science and physics.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a thing called the XLS camera, which uses a grid of infrared lasers to basically map a room out.
[SPEAKER_02]: We originally hacked it out of an Xbox connect system like way back in the day and developed it based on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the software knows the human form.
[SPEAKER_02]: So say we're shooting this right here, we're shooting it into this room here.
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of you see like in our cake mapped out version of the room and then if a figure is there if I'm standing there it does a stick figure that kind of outlines our body because it knows that's the human form.
[SPEAKER_02]: The thing is we've shoot this for hours and hours at times, there's nothing there, it's an open space and all of sudden a stick figure will appear that the software is mapping that there's a human figure there when we can see there's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's pretty impressive to me that after hours of footage, all of sudden these things appear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not only that, but we actually got an intelligent response where we'll try to interact once we see it kind of wave and be like, hello, and we've got to look at real time exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're walking around with the tablet system that so we can actually see it in real time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on the tablet, you can see it wave back or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there was actually a time one of the craziest we were at this old prison in Arizona and there was a stage where they used to let the prisoners kind of do performances.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we went in there and we're shooting the stage and all of a sudden three figures appeared on the stage and it's just empty stage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Three figures appear.
[SPEAKER_02]: One's kind of going like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: One's going like this and one's going like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was like a guitarist, a singer, and a drummer.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we just, you know, we were like little kids giggling and just loving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they kind of were up there for a while and then all of a sudden they stopped.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were still there.
[SPEAKER_02]: They stopped moving though.
[SPEAKER_02]: We applauded.
[SPEAKER_02]: They literally bowed and then just vanished.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm serious.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, to even to me, like there's moments where it's just like it still blows my mind after all these years.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been with a show 15 years and, you know, after everything I've seen, I've seen things left off the ground and go flying by themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been dragged backwards.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something's grabbed my leg and pull me backwards and you see it on camera.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get pulled back and there's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had scratches appear to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've witnessed exorcisms, possessions, rituals, all kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, just filled with human bones.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been in the Dracula's castle.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been all around the world doing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And these things still blow my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish I could just be like, oh, it's this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish everything could be deep on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be great to just kind of sleep at night a little easier.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much that, you know, without a doubt, there's so much more to just this world than just this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's the difference between what you guys do and say a medium?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like do you believe in mediums by the way?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so no, I believe there are a lot that kind of put on a show, but I do believe in legitimate ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've encountered different psychics and mediums that have actually impressed me with things that I'm like, okay, you're legit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever brought one with you on a adventure?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just see if they can communicate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We bring them out from time to time just to kind of see what they pick up on.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've done stuff we've even blindfolded them and they don't even know like we literally fly them in, we grab them at the hotel, we bring them in and then just let them loose.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've come up with impressive things, actually in the new season, we do an episode at the Winchester Mystery House.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's the hundredth anniversary of Houdini being there, and he was big into doing sciences there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we re-enact, we do sayons on the hundredth anniversary of him being there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we bring in the only blood relative of Houdini, and we have a psychic and a warlock with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then just I don't know if it was just that energy or whatever, but what we call it there, we documented actual visual evidence through cameras and taking actual polaroids, which we try to do polaroids a lot, because that's something we can actually, you know, you take the picture, you have it right there, you could show the camera, like there's no time to manipulate, there's no time to do anything, like you see it happening in real time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We capture some amazing photographic evidence in that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess like devil's advocate is is how come you guys are capturing all this stuff with camera and there are people that are dying to interact with their loved ones or find a missing kid or a dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but you know, and they are not having success.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you explain that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of it is, it's like fishing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we'll be out there, sometimes we film for hours and hours and hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the thing is when you see the show, it's, you know, we're out there for hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's edited down.
[SPEAKER_02]: The investigation is only like minus commercials like 20, some odd minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's funny too, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of like the highlights of, you know, literally an entire night of being out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're there a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just you walk in and walk in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, too, what's different about our show is that we don't stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've, we literally film every other week, like since I joined the show 15 years ago, we've filmed every other week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get occasional week off for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: Things like that will get extra week off here and there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you know anything about the TV world, most shows are you shoot a season in a month or two and you're down for a few months and then you pick back up for the new season.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we just shoot non-stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're kind of always in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're always in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We bring things home with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not just like we're clocking in for work.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do it and we go home and it's all, you know, happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like speaking of clocking and and clocking out has this ever affected a relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: 100% yeah way I've gotten divorced.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: So my wife at the time, she was our behind the scenes photographer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she would travel around with us and do promotional shoots for us and kind of just behind the scenes during the first half of the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: She would do those.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were filming at a place called Goatman's Bridge outside of Dallas, Texas.
[SPEAKER_02]: And um...
[SPEAKER_02]: We were just filming our interviews, you know, she's just behind the scenes, snap and photos.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also, we see her being effective, like just getting very negative, getting aggressive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we stop and we check on her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's just saying she doesn't feel like she's herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's just getting these thoughts to hurt us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just really affected in a negative way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not her person.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's definitely not.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's super chill, relaxed, almost like hippie, easy going like.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we could tell she was being affected by something, some kind of energy that was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she wanted to face it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we did the investigation, she went out into the woods by herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we monitored from a control station and something hit her in the head.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she had crazy experience out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I give her all the credit in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the guts it takes to go out and face that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But after that, you know, we told her we're like, you know, she like kind of...
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't want to speak for directly, but like she kind of had a breakdown.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like she kind of like started feeling things were fallen or home and like seeing things more often.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she kind of, you know, broke down.
[SPEAKER_02]: And fortunately, that led to just more negativity, drinking things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just deteriorated more and more over time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually we got to a point where it was like, we, you know, obviously this isn't going to work anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry to hear that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that, you know, spirits or all these things, it's energy because you're talking about something, you know, affecting her, is there a possibility that it's not a spirit, but it's just certain energies and I'm, you know, I don't know anything about this science but I do know that people do believe in energies and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a dead person standing over you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and I agree completely, and I think that's one thing doing this for so long and experience when I have, I'm never the one to be like, this is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still, I'm still learning and I love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that we can keep evolving, keep theorizing, kind of putting the pieces together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do tend to believe in energy, you know, I personally, I'm not a religious person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a spirituality to me, but I'm not necessarily religious person.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do believe in energy and there's good energy and negative energy, whether that's demon's angels, bad people, good people, whatever you kind of want to label it and talk to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do believe there's good and negative energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've seen it in both ways, I've encountered things that's beautiful, positive energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've encountered people's loved ones before, and then we've
[SPEAKER_02]: and counter things are just straight evil when you can just feel that and there's a whole thing there's a series of water experiments by this Japanese scientist that took water samples.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would go up to the beautiful mountain and take this beautiful spring water and he would freeze it and then look at it under a microscope.
[SPEAKER_02]: When he would look at it under the microscope it formed these beautiful symmetrical crystals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you would take water from like the gutter in the city, freeze that, look at that under microscope, and it was disfigured, malformed, non-sometrical things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then you took a beautiful water and projected heat to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You literally sounds crazy, but you projected, hey, you would tell the water, I hate you, I'm going to kill you blah, blah, blah, blah, like just projecting negative energy to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he froze that water, which was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that water is disfigured and non-symmetrical.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he did the opposite.
[SPEAKER_02]: He took the water that was ugly from this sewer, projected love to it, said, I love you.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're beautiful things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now when he refrosed that water, that water was now beautiful, symmetrical crystals.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he repeated this over and over again, and he basically proved that positive and negative energy actually affects
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, at least water on a molecular level, and if you think our bodies are 78% of water, what's that doing to us?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a whole thing called the Stone Tape Theory, which is basically organic surfaces can hold a memory, which based on that experiment, there's water and wood, there's water and stone, things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you, you go to a place that, you know, a family was massacred or something that's just a brutal energy, even if the house is renovated and it's beautiful now that energy is still in there, it's like almost like stained in the walls and the floor and you can come in and under the right circumstances and right variables and even mindset and devices, you can pick up on that energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: right fascinating how much of it is about location like you're talking about where some things in the bones of the house or the area versus you know a spirit or an energy let's say following you I mean we've been doing this for you know decades now and you would think maybe somebody got pissed off at you and might be flying around the room wherever you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we've thought that we've gone to places.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a case where we went to a, it was like a thing like a VFW or one of those like American Legion, I think it was in L.A. And it was like, oh, our friend is haunting us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you, you know, like, it was more of a happier type thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at that time, Zach and I were doing a documentary called Demon House on this house in Gary, Indiana that was like,
[SPEAKER_02]: all the demons and so many everybody that went in the house had accidents, all kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And during this time, we worked on it for a few years, but we were working on that during this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're doing this investigation that sees people's house, these people's, you know, friend is supposedly haunting it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get in there and it was evil.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then that may maybe like to like maybe it maybe it is us like I'm sorry, hopefully it doesn't stick there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but I'm sure there are things that do follow us around sometimes we encounter familiar energies that you're kind of like, whoa, this feels like something we've encountered before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I've encountered a spirit.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a phenomenon with Ouija boards.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to ask you about Ouija with a thing called the Zozo Demon, which is I've encountered this numerous times throughout my life even before the show encountered it, not realizing what it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Explain it, Woody.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I was a teenager, we were to plan the Ouija board and we wanted to go all out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were lighting candles and sends water dish, dagger and just explained for people listening that are too old or young to know what a Ouija board is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to play with it all the time, but
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's basically a divination tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the alphabet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, no, goodbye.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you use a plan chat and you hold it and you basically ask questions and in the plan chat moves and it spells out the answers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you hope your friends aren't moving it, get freaked out and it's a good time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually, I remember we would kind of move it to make it seem like something happened after nothing was happening because we wanted to get a thing, but go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this one night we were like we want to go all out and we want to experience something we want to get creeped out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we think of everything ritualistic we can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, candles, water dish daggers, incense, all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are there are mediums that you bring into something to actually fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's thing we did at this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know what we were doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we were just dumb kids that were like, that's just anything we could think of.
[SPEAKER_02]: That we've seen in movies that feels ritualistic.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it in here.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're playing and we're talking to suppose it's a little boy spirit and it keeps saying it's name is ZO and I'm like that doesn't make sense like but whatever and I noticed the incense smokes blown down to the dagger So I'm like that's weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I pick up the dagger and move it in sense change the smoke goes to the dagger again And I was like hey guys check this out every time I move the dagger the incense smoke would blow to the dagger So then I asked through the wage voice that are you attracted to the dagger it said yes
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay, and then I asked the stupidest question I've ever asked, I said, could you come through the dagger into us?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it said, yes, that we all stopped for a minute, we're like, all right, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Or we can do anything, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will be like, all right, this is what we wanted, though, you know, we wanted to get creep out, we wanted to experience this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So myself and my one buddy were like, all right, we'll both hold it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The daggers and his sheaths, you can hold the blades safely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: We lay on our backs and we both hold it and we say, okay, you can come through into us.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just got overwhelmed sadness, like through my head to my toes, like it was the weirdest feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: My buddy jumps up, knees on my shoulders, like I'm on my back, pin down and he's trying to pull
[SPEAKER_02]: He breaks it open and he lunges it towards my throat and I'm holding him like this shaking with every bit of strength I have and he's got gravity everything and the blades pass my chin and he's just trying to shove it into my throat.
[SPEAKER_02]: This goes on probably good 15 seconds or so and then he just full goes limp, full tears crying had no idea what was going on and then we're all like, all right we're good we're done like that's enough you know and we stopped and this was I was a teenager.
[SPEAKER_02]: So fast forward we're doing the show where in Oklahoma and there's a case of this guy in a home that feels like this demon came through and has been torturing him and his family and he was like it's called Zozo and I was like it sounds kind of familiar but I didn't piece it together right away.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then during the episode myself and the guy who knows nothing about me at this point in my career, I never told this story publicly or anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: He knows nothing about me.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm like, all right, I'll do the Ouija board with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's him and I, and it starts moving and it says it's name is ZOZO and I'm like, like, have we met before?
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's like, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, and I was like, what did you do to me and it said, or what did you try to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it said, kill.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, how, and it spelled out stab.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like this guy knows nothing of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I wasn't moving it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, like, that's still kind of gives me the creeps and blows my mind that like over that time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, it's still carries on, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay, so if people are listening and they're like, oh, okay, I want to try and make contact with the spirit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there ways to do it that are safe ways, but ways that you have found and doing all this research really works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, uh, I mean, first you need to start by finding a location that's supposedly haunted.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and now I think it helps, and at base, if we go back with the energy, if you know there's something intense as happened there, especially, that's thing we tend to go to like darker locations, we tend to focus more on, you know, darker history because there's something that's stronger, like the energy is more intense there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you don't have to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think honestly, they're everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of it is being open-minded.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're closed off and you're just like a hundred percent, like you're probably not going to experience anything, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think being open-minded is a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also just communicating, just open up.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't necessarily need devices, even like you can use your phone and record and just talk and see if anything comes through.
[SPEAKER_02]: See if anything happens, try to actually directly communicate with something.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it sounds feels weird at first because you're just maybe in a room by yourself and there's nothing there, but you try to communicate.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, it's kind of like the Ouija board you're opening up that, whether they're portals, whether it's whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: During that act of communicating, whether it's a Ouija board, whether it's a spirit box, EVP session, excellence, anything that you're trying to communicate, you're opening up a doorway and you can't guarantee what's going to come through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we did the Ouija board, we felt it was a little boy spirit, but obviously it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was something darker.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's the thing that I always tell people, like, people are like, how do we get into it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like sometimes it's easier.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like we're so far in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just what we do now, but like it can be very dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen a lot of, you know, people get hurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen people die.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen things, you know, we've lost a lot of friends that dove really deep into the paranormal and it's like overtaken them.
[SPEAKER_01]: because what happens, they get here and where they get upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just get negative, like I've seen, you know, beautiful people that were beautiful souls that were in love and positive and close friends, and then last time I saw them, they were saying that they felt something followed on home, and then a few months later, they're both dead and a murder suicide.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't want to get too much in the details, but like,
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen this happen just now we just found out today actually which is just weird all these things happen you know I don't want to say like there's a curse or something but weird things happen around us we all go through different things all of a sudden the show and even our extended family friends people that come in and out of the show we have a new episode this season that we did at the Holly Museum and we had a special guest come in with
[SPEAKER_02]: ashes, you know, and we just found out today that that person was just involved in some crazy shootout thing with the police.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's just weird how these things happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had post malone come to the museum.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was on an episode and he came to the museum to hang out afterwards and he touched uh... well via Zack.
[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of had this thing happen, you know, not to get too crazy with it, but he they had an experience and after that,
[SPEAKER_02]: his plane crashed he was on he got no crazy car crash and then his house was broken into his old house luckily he wasn't there anymore but they came in with guns looking for him and so it's like these weird things happen, you know, to us and sometimes that people around us
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's funny you mentioned that because I coming into this, I was like, you know, I don't really have any experiences that are positive or I can say, oh, I kind of believes because I'll tell you the negative ones in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as you were talking, I'm right before I did remember one curse that I do truly believe and
[SPEAKER_01]: in my family.
[SPEAKER_01]: My grandfather's stepfather.
[SPEAKER_01]: His name was Rob DePyster Titus.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it's his name.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was one of the guys, the 11 men who excavated King Tut's tomb.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a curse that said that if you, and I don't know the exact curse, but if you google it, something about how everyone will die, you know, that it's disturbing for disturbing the, yeah, the bones, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I think it was if they had actually removed artifacts or things in this tomb, which they all had, all 11 of them died.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what was interesting is Rob came back.
[SPEAKER_01]: He married my grandfather's mother at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: She soon after died.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had some artifacts.
[SPEAKER_01]: He built this beautiful home.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's called Ashen Telly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in the Berkshiers.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was known, it was a 35 room house built in bricks and they have beautiful pictures of horses and all these people, you know, people going up the hill to build this house and it was known as a house almost like the Titanic that could not burn down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, he had the artifacts in this home, and long story short, he got married.
[SPEAKER_01]: He moved down the hill into a new house.
[SPEAKER_01]: They built a house because it was too big and it was very cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very hard to, um, heat.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, there was just a few things left in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one day, the wife was burning trash and somehow the wind blows the trash up the hill in a way that they were like this could never happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: and goes right to the house and they could not stop the fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to this day, it's really beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Only the four pillars are still standing.
[SPEAKER_01]: People go and visit it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's something you guys want to check out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then all the ruins are underneath it.
[SPEAKER_01]: and people come and check it out and try and find cool things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to the day my grandfather died, he always said that house was cursed.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no way it could have burned down.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did everything the entire town tried to put out the fire and nothing, nothing would work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it like kind of haunted him forever that everyone around him died and he was the only one to live.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he always believed that it was because Rob was a stepfather and he didn't necessarily grow up with him and too close to him, but he inherited this house that made him feel like he couldn't live in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was too cold and it was not even about the heat he just kept saying it was cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost like an unenviting goodness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're not supposed to be here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's a place that people tour and it's really beautiful and as a kid, I remember going into all the tunnels because, you know, all the bricks are down and you can see where it's all burnt, but you can still go into all these underground things that's really neat.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other experience I had, listen, I've had two very important people in my life, my fiance from years ago and my father when he was very young and I was young, he was 44, I was 15.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: As I've gotten older, people are like, oh, I want to have somebody talk to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want a medium to meet with you, and listen, I just feel like people can Google who you are, even if you're not Googleable.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are signs, I guess, that not a magician, but someone who's a mentalist can figure out anything about you that they can say things in.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, yeah, that is me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they must feed you lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, yeah, how'd you make that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you have issues with, you know, falling in love?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, it does it, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and the last interaction I had with someone, they called me and they said, you know, at the weirdest thing happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: This, you know, it was Andy a big guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was standing behind me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants me to tell you something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I get really agitated about stuff like that because I'm like, well, I'd love that to be true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd love to hear what he has to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make shit up and then you never really know you know what I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a very hard thing because you you I think as people who are somewhat skeptical You really want to believe you do anything to believe But you just don't know how to you know unless you have an experience like you're talking about where you actually feel it or see it And I remember watching those movies that I loved I guess it was called
[SPEAKER_01]: paranormal activity or something where you see the girl yanked out of a bed in the middle of the night and I kind of would love for something like that to happen So you can listen and don't do that to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kidding, but like that would show me that that's real Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely and I think you know when I I get skeptics I get people that or like I don't believe it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I appreciate that I respect that And I feel it is something that you need to experience to truly believe it and truly you know
[SPEAKER_02]: See it, but I think there's something, you know, I think it's something that we all want to know, we're all, you know, even if people don't talk about it, there's a curiosity and one thing I found about our show that I felt was like almost fulfilling as I've heard from people that they're like, oh, like, I felt I didn't crazy my whole life or like 20 years ago, we couldn't talk about this, you know, I had experiences and you would get locked up and, you know, put away your crazy crazy, you know, where they try to tell their friends and family and they're like, you're nuts, but like,
[SPEAKER_02]: They've seen our show and being on for so long and what we've experienced.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's given people like this sense of hope and being like, oh, you're not alone, you know, these experiences you're having, our experiences other people are having and it's kind of created a community that people can actually talk about, you know, and share stories and share things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the more we do that, the more we're going to learn.
[SPEAKER_02]: even more like what is actually going on and what is all this stuff that's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, earlier you mentioned Warlock and you said it was a male witch.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is a witch?
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's different I guess variables of witches.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not necessary, it can be a religion, you know, there's like paganism as a religion that uses a weapon or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, we can things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically it's a, which is someone that, you know, it's kind of more of a nature-based religion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they, they'll, they'll have deities, things like that, like different gods, but it's more about nature, worship, and a sense, but it's like the personification of
[SPEAKER_02]: different things in nature.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very ritualistic so they'll do offerings, rituals to kind of try to, you know, get good blessings and do things and then there's there can be stuff that they do that's bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and castings.
[SPEAKER_02]: right, which isn't all bad, you know, like I think which is get a bad rap that it's like ooh, which is it's all bad, but like I know plenty of witches that are the most amazing people and want to hurt a fly, but they practice that regularly in their life and it's almost a lot of it's to do with like manifestation, even like in positive energy, you know, just kind of manifesting your world and creating the world you live in, you know, but like they'll do it in a more
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm just curious about your show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think there's a stigma about you guys that do your show that people that are in either reality TV or in like docu-series type of stuff are like, oh, that's made for TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a joke or people started to respect what you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I think I think because we've been on so long and we are one of the originals.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we've gained like a level of like credibility and the way we approach things the way we bring on engineers and scientists and try to document these things the best we can and present it to the audience in a very you know, if we just experience something, we want to show it to the audience from multiple camera angles.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not just like, oh, it's probably this like we want to really
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, present it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, there's going to be skeptics.
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand we are on TV, so there's the natural like, oh, it's TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I get that and I understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are a number of different other shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we've even had someone on, I didn't can't remember what show it was and a different artwork and similar concept, but she was more, I think, like a medium or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there is, you know, unfortunately there are shows that have done things and it kind of can put a bad name for everybody in a way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think doing what we do for so long and even when we do like there's people online that you know their goal in life is to bash us.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know these internet trolls, you know that just love to sit at home and type terrible things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we see things and if we see something that's like oh you know what they kind of have a point.
[SPEAKER_02]: like there was just recently there was a case where like they watched an old episode and be like wait a minute this doesn't make sense and we're like you know what they're actually right like that was an editing mistake and then we kind of like go back and we were like hey look well we'll actually like
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to talk about that, let's go about here's the original raw footage, you know, unedited for the TV, so you can actually see what really happened in real time, things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're not afraid to, I guess, back up, you know, any kind of claims, you know, obviously you don't feed in everything, some are just straight trolls, but you know, if there's something that's like, oh, like, all right, you have a good point, we'll dress that and we'll, you know, show you more, kind of talk about it or try to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the thing too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes we get to a point where we're like, we don't always just be like, it's paranormal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, but we'll be like, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is something that's really unexplainable that's happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know how it happened or why it happened theoretically.
[SPEAKER_02]: It shouldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we kind of sometimes leave it at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't necessarily always be like, it's strictly paranormal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has there ever been a case that has kind of no pun intended, but haunted you in the way that like you keep going back or you've been there and you could not figure it out, but it was something so extraordinary that you're like, we got it, we got to go back until we figure out what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, unfortunately, I think we don't necessarily go back to a lot of places.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do, like sometimes we'll do returns, things like the new season Winchester, Mystery House, and it's the third time we've been there, but every time we go, we get amazing evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think what's cool about when we can do that is it's more experimental.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all right, now we can repeat
[SPEAKER_02]: We're trying different things, but it's like we get a second chance to kind of be like that's try a different approach, try a different devices, things like that, you know, and try to like see we can document the same thing again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then I think that adds credibility to like, oh, like we've been here, like the goldfield hotel I mentioned earlier, they had a brick fly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of what launched the show originally in the original documentary.
[SPEAKER_02]: we went back there a few times one time we were back there and we caught a rock lifting off the ground and going flying by itself down a hallway on camera and i remember we saw that and we were just like this is this is the holy grail this is this is the most amazing thing you know
[SPEAKER_02]: and remember we got the hotel or watching it over and over again just in all that this happened and we're like should we just send this to CNN right now kind of thing you know just like it's so incredible really not well wait you know and then it kind of plays back into what you're saying earlier there's always going to be skeptics like our mind we're like this is
[SPEAKER_02]: This is it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then aired and it was a great episode and people were blown away, but then there's still people that are just like, yeah, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's next, you know, and right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was there an episode of yours in all these years that you absolutely loved.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yeah, I mean, there's been a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: some of my favorites in a weird way is we did a series of a spinoff series called House calls where we actually went to people's homes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we did re-season's maybe of that and we're actually helping people and to me that was great because it felt like when people figure out what was going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, basically we opened up the country to submissions to send us, you know, videos of what's going on in your house.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's haunted if what's going on, things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then we would pick people and then same thing we're just going on these people's houses.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're still going skeptically, but then you start interviewing these people and you start hearing their struggle that they're in their own home and they're terrified and all these terrible things are happening to them and you feel, you know, whatever it is, like
[SPEAKER_02]: they believe it, and they are living in that world.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we are there, one to still document it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't just take their word for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, OK, cool, you're here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm sure a lot of people just want to meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're skeptical to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But thankfully, we were able to document evidence in these homes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then afterwards, we actually try to cleanse the home.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do cleansings, we do prayers, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's fitting for that house in that environment.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll do that before we leave.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then a couple months later, we follow up with the family.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we through Zoom, and we kind of see how they're doing, what's going on, and that's how the show ends.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was nice to hear, I'd say, the majority of them actually ends up getting better.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple that, you know, still are having some issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like for the most part, it actually helped a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, to see their thanks, they're relief that they can now live in their home.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's fully, you know, to me that was very rewarding.
[SPEAKER_01]: of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: You talked about cleansing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, obviously this doesn't come with like a manual of how to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how have you guys figured out or if somebody is listening and right now and they're like, I need help.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do to cleanse an area?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's a very personal thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I think it's whatever you believe in.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a belief structure, if you're religious, pray.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're religious, read, scripture, things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you don't believe that, it's probably not going to help you.
[SPEAKER_02]: doesn't work, you know, but finding for me personally, like if I ever if I'm on a shoe and I come home and I'm like, I don't feel right, like something's just lingering on me and you know, when a weird mood or something, you know, for me it's spending time in nature going hike, I play music, I find...
[SPEAKER_02]: Things that make me happy and I just engulf myself in it, you know, and sometimes I disappear for a couple days and just kind of, you know, have to almost like Like cleanse detox in a way of like negative energy and just kind of just totally engulf myself and positive energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So whatever that is to you, and like I said if it's prioring if it's, you know, it could be saging it could, you know, do you believe in saging?
[SPEAKER_02]: I like Paula Santo would actually it's basically like a sage.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's wood and stick instead of like a bundle of leaves I feel it works better.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen better results from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also meaning what?
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people we talked to that were like, oh, he's saged and things got worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Policanto seems to actually get rid of it, and it's also when you're doing it right It's doing your intentions.
[SPEAKER_02]: I try to tell people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I grew up The youngest of three boys So like I love my brothers.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're great, but like they picked on me, you know growing up and then I learned after a while to stop paying attention to it like one day They were picking on me and I just was like go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just do it
[SPEAKER_02]: and then they stopped.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't fun for them anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't fuel that, you know, they want that response.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel similar to these spirits, these energies, that are affecting, especially if it is negative, they almost feed off your fears.
[SPEAKER_02]: They feed off the negativity.
[SPEAKER_02]: They make couples fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: They make tension.
[SPEAKER_02]: They
[SPEAKER_02]: it almost that fuels them so like in a way kind of it's easier said than done of course but like ignoring them and not letting that any of that negativity and almost the exact opposite like overloaded with love and positivity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just such a random question but I thought about when you were talking have you ever been doing work for the show or you know working on someone's house or someone's issue or finding whatever you guys were came therefore
[SPEAKER_01]: and something personal happened, meaning you felt like you were contacted by somebody in your own life that was trying to connect with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean honestly, I've had stuff, I ironically enough through a Ouija board again, which now looking back was probably the same spirit that's been messing with me since I was a teenager.
[SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we started talking on the Ouija board
[SPEAKER_02]: who, like, I don't talk about and he's, you know, he's not well, you know, he's been going through a lot of health problems his whole life and it's not something I regularly talk about, but it was coming up on the Ouija board and I was getting emotional and I was like, all right, this isn't cool, like I kind of don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: do this anymore, you know, because it was doing all that, but the person doing when there was nothing about me, they don't know this, you know, at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that really hit me hard personally.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's definitely a thing like we get our names calling out to us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've here mimicking which will capture our voices.
[SPEAKER_02]: and we're not talking, which is a weird phenomena in a positive arsenal for someone else.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had, I remember there was a case where we did a home in Texas and we were investigating with the woman who owned the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: We used a device called a spirit box, which basically scans frequencies, and then it's so fast that there's no, like if you get, we'll get sentences, like we'll be like,
[SPEAKER_02]: what happened here and it would be like murder will come through but when you put it in you see the waveform that scanning that word murder is over like 1516 different frequency bands and it comes across so we're using that device and I can't remember the word that it was but some weird like very random
[SPEAKER_02]: word that we're like, okay, I mean, it's nothing to us and we continue to carry on.
[SPEAKER_02]: The woman who lives there starts crying and we're like, whoa, like, are you okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's happening and she's just like, like, happy crying and she's like, that was my mother and I is code word.
[SPEAKER_02]: that like if anything ever happened, that was like their thing, they're like, that's gonna be the code word that we use.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know that it's me kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was it was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was absolutely a beautiful moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, even, you know, there was tears, but it was beautiful tears and she felt as closure in this connection, you know, that, you know, was amazing personal experience for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious and all the times you've been doing this, what do you think these ghosts are?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it people that are trapped?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like, what is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I have different theories kind of, it can get weird, I think one of the ones that I like to kind of go into that I've been exploring more is the idea of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: that like there's a whole theory in like quantum entanglement and quantum physics where like there really is no time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when you think of what time is it's something that we made to organize the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a whole theory on physics that like kind of everything that has happened and will happen and is happening is all happening technically at the same time but it's our perspective, it's our consciousness that's making this reality now.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some weird, I don't know how or why, but there could be moments in certain locations, certain things that we can almost see through into the past or another time period.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did the Conjuring House, I think it was in Rhode Island, I believe, that they inspired the original Conjuring movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were interviewing a daughter of the mother who, if you watch Conjuring, like the main mother who was affected the most that was her mom, and she told us that after a while, the mother, because she was seeing these spirits in the house and it made her go crazy, but she finally came to a reasoning that she's just witnessing their life in their time.
[SPEAKER_02]: like for whatever reason per at that point, she could see into like there's like a hole and you could see into that time and at first obviously freaks you out and it's scary but she kind of accepted that and realized like oh this is just the family living here before us like just doing their thing
[SPEAKER_02]: And it made her be able to, I guess, become sane and kind of live with it and just understand that, like, that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not scary.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not trying to hurt you or anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least in that case, you know, but it was just this for some weird reason you're able to glimpse into, you know, another time period.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think is most misunderstood about the paranormal?
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's probably a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, I think with us, you know, kind of we mentioned earlier, like people think, oh, we're a TV show.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this isn't a TV show.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is our life, you know, like there's stuff that,
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll never even know about and never see about that happens to all of us all four of us on the show like we communicate We talk each other like we've had calls in the middle of the night that's like someone's in my house and freaking out and then no one's there And just going through crazy bad luck after really intense investigation or feeling like something's holding you back and holding you down and
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, we've all been through this and I think that's the biggest misconception that you know, I wish I could and I get it because it is its TV and I get it and I'm very skeptical at TV myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I understand but like this is our life, this isn't just we're doing this for entertainment, we're doing it because we do love it and we're all fascinated in what this is and we want to know more.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've been doing it so long that I feel like we're invested.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And but it is our life.
[SPEAKER_02]: It affects us day to day and you know, sometimes worse than others.
[SPEAKER_01]: Has this affected the way that you think about your own mortality and are you scared of death?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not scared of death.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do believe there's more to it than this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to die.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do enjoy this life, and I enjoy everything we get to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But basically, I've developed my, I guess, mantra, if you will, is, or goal in life.
[SPEAKER_02]: My simple goal in life is to wake up tomorrow morning.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I can wake up tomorrow morning, I have a whole another day that I can do whatever one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a crappy day.
[SPEAKER_02]: sucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I wake up the next day of another chance, you know, and whatever happens after this, I do know there's more to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not necessarily afraid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or if I would miss this, you know, I do enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a code word that you tell your family if you died, then somebody's checking for spirits.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to mess with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to know what's
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so you're, this is the 29th season, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Have those adventures.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just aired last night, tell me what to expect from this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean, last night was a wild one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a two hour special that we investigated the Poltergeist House, where they actually filmed the 1980s movie and that was, if you know any of the lore, it was riddled with curses and tragedies, things like that, and even hauntings that we're going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what was cool, we went into that investigation just as an episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just going to be a regular one hour episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we call it since saying evidence that we had to dive deeper and we investigated even further and end up being a two hour investigation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't there some and I just kind of remember like a lot of the cast members ended up dying later on.
[SPEAKER_02]: the cast members dying a lot of the crew even were interviewing people like in the neighborhood while it was going on and that they were experiencing paranormal and hauntings even at the house while they were filming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't watch that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't look into the light.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just cool to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did experiments with an old TV set like they had in the movie, so it felt very nostalgic and it was really really cool experience to be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We go back to a location we've done before called the Glen Tavern Inn, which is just a really cool, all-unted, you know, very classic haunted hotel kind of vibe.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we went back because they recently had tragedies and they felt like the activities picking up so we went back to kind of reinvestigate and see what was going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: We brought out a friend of ours, Jonathan Davis, who's the lead singer of the band corn.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he came out and investigated with us, so that'll be coming out this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which he was amazing and it's cool when we bring in these people that you want to expect.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're full on hardcore into it and they do an amazing job.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another episode of this season we do we investigate.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was blanking.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the Cino's down by Buffalo bills.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not Buffalo bills.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to cross street.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK. Are you connected to my brain fart?
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember in the name of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whiskey pizza.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's another episode where we investigate Whiskey pizza because it's closing down, which was called to be in a casino.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's basically gutted and emptied.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So seeing it lively.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's just weird and scary.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we brought out comedian Matt Rife with us for that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was the same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't realize he's a fallen investigator.
[SPEAKER_02]: He actually does ghost hunting in his spare time as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was really cool to do that and experience that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He must have loved that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do the Winchester Mystery House.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do a saiyan, some the hundredth anniversary of Fudini being there with the only blood relative.
[SPEAKER_02]: which was pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do another old classic on a mansion called the Rispin Mansion, where we found like it's kind of been sitting abandoned.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we find this a lot, which is another scary variable and layer to add into things.
[SPEAKER_02]: People have been breaking in there and doing their own rituals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we found symbolism and
[SPEAKER_02]: remnants of rituals and like that's thing like we don't know what these people are doing what they're trying to conjure what they're trying to bring out and even if they're doing it right even if they're just like kids with a Ouija board messing around sometimes you can open up something and it really you know and create a dark environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, um, speaking of poltergeist for one second, do you have a favorite scary movie that like is so believable that scared the shit out of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, um, I mean, poltergeist always stuck there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was always a big fan of the shining growing up, um, I was like that, which is a great.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's basically a ghost story as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you like Blair Witch Project?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, actually, we, uh, we do probably won't even air for probably another year, but we just did something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Connected with the Blair Witch which is really cool to see when that comes out like I said that probably won't be right so we think there's going to be a season 30 I mean we've Enough to do yeah, we shot them so like I said we can there's no lack of ghosts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just keep shooting So we definitely have a good little backlog of episodes right now awesome so people can catch ghost adventures On discovery channel it airs at 10 p.m. Yep 10 every Wednesday night
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's so nice to meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I find this fascinating.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've sort of made me a believer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really excited to watch your your show for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm by the Honour Museum and check that out sometime.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can just go in on a tour and going around there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can pick up on things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even in Vegas, locally, there's a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a buddy of ours who does honoured tours over at the Pioneer Saloon things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there are things that you can do, like you can just kind of get out and dip your toes in it, if you will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: My last question is, what, you know, because there are so many skeptics, but what do you think it would take for someone or for the masses to really believe?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it's as simple as somebody needs to see something for themselves?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the alien needs to come down from the sky and reveal itself or do you think that, as decades go on, this will be a normal thing that people believe in?
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope it will be.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it will be turning stand, which is good is that it'll be acceptable and people will realize it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think, I don't know, I guess the negative part of it that I think about is like today's society the way it's going, people are so quick to move on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I even do feel like an alien ship could come down right now and people look Oh my god, okay, what's next and just kind of you know, I mean like I I hope and that's you know I'm hoping that people embrace things more, but I do see the way things are going that like you know people are always moving on to the next thing right away And it's kind of like yeah, whatever
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is kind of like if something was right in front of your face, I don't know the people would believe it as much too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or they'll still try to find something like a or maybe it was debunking.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, maybe I was just dreaming.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we were all somehow slipped drugs or you know, some they'll try to find something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I made it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to believe a little more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think just being open-minded and honestly like like I said earlier like I don't claim to be an expert like I You know people call me an expert because we've done it for so long, but I'm like don't call me that like I'm still learning I'm still trying to figure it all out.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just someone who has a lot of experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly And like thing we don't know like it might be something that one day were like, oh yeah, that's normal That's regular and I hope it is in a way
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but it's just something about being able to explore that and, you know, like I said, are they're giving people closure at things, giving people or sanity back and come for a back, you know, I think it's an important thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, if people are out there and they're experiencing things like you're not alone, yeah, if you feel like you are, there's communities out there that you can definitely tap into and, you know, as people want to reach out to you, where can they find you?
[SPEAKER_02]: on social media, Instagram, Facebook, as J.Wazley film, Twitter, X now, as J.Wazley.
[SPEAKER_02]: My company is Simple Equations Media, so we have a dot com.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, things get filtered through, but I'm going to be eventually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And do you read your DMs?
[SPEAKER_02]: I try not to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every once in a while, I'll just check just to see if there's something worth it.
[SPEAKER_02]: these days it's tough.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just too much going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, not even negative.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just a lot of, even scams and just, I kind of felt it was one of those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I early on, I started trying to respond to more people, even comments, like, reciting to people's comments.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I still do occasionally, but like, one, I won't feed in a negativity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a very big delete and block person, like if you were bringing negativity, especially you're coming to one of my pages and just spewing negativity.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even, you know, it's just, it's your gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, but I still try to, you know, try and make as much as I can.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if it wasn't for fans, we wouldn't be able to do what we do, so I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's also like, I've had people where they're like, oh, I've commented.
[SPEAKER_02]: 50 times and you've never responded to me and they, I'm like, it's like, you do one, then you have to do everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like, I try not to, I'm just kind of like, what I do read them, I look at the comments and I appreciate it all.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not, it doesn't just go away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I respect it and very thankful for everybody that does that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I wish you the best of luck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody should watch Ghost Adventures.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's on Discovery Wednesdays at 10 p.m.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited to see it such an honor to meet you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for listening to Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please be sure to subscribe to the show and give us a five-star rating and review.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood with Rachel, you could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have ideas for the show or want to reach out email us at info, Ms.
[SPEAKER_01]: Understood podcast at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's spelled m-is-s-s-understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much, and I'll see you next time.