TGI-The Pilot

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to Podlet's world. I am saying he official a PANGALORENS. And I am right or Strong a k a. Shawn Hunter, and I am Wilfred l a k A. Eric Matthews. How are you guys doing? You're ready to ready to jump into the fight. Yeah, this was this was an interesting experience. Um, it's funny though, like I don't know how you guys feel, but I definitely remember the pilot. Well, actually this is probably a different Well obviously, Daniel, you weren't in the pilot, so it's a whole different thing. But I shot the pilot two different times, and so we did it before you were cast, Will and there was a different Dad. So and in any case, the pilot I actually remember more than probably any other episode. So it was very bizarre to no lines, Like I could actually like hear lines and be like, oh my gosh, I have I remember that, but then also completely not understand like what the show was about, because I was still just very much a kid in the midst of a show, you know. So there's a lot to talk about. Well, let me let me tell everybody exactly what the pilot episode was. It was season one episode one otherwise known as one oh one um, and it was called the Pilot. Uh. It first aired Septembe and uh. The episode is that Corey is caught listening to the Phillies game in class while Mr Feenie is trying to teach the class about love. So they're talking about Romeo and Juliet and he is listening to the Phillies game in headphones. Eric decides to take his girlfriend on their very first day to the Phillies game instead of Corey. So Corey is furious and thinks that love is ruining his life, and he decides to live in his treehouse. And um, that was my watch hitting the very angrily, um passionate. He lives in his treehouse that happens to overlook the backyard of their neighbor and suffle online as to whether it's a side yard or sideyard or the backyard. Right, Okay, we will get into it then. Um. So he Corey's treehouse overlooked the backyard of Mr Phoene's backyard because very important to the show. Mr Peoenie is Corey's next door neighbor. And uh and so yeah, well, how did you feel watching the pilot? Um? Okay, So it made me very, very anxious to go back into the world. I don't know why I have no read I no reason. I can pop up in my head immediately as to why I was so anxious, pressing, pressing, play, But I was um. And then as I got into the episode, I realized one of the reasons why I didn't want to watch it, and it's because I am the worst um And it's not And again, it's not used to say. Well you used to say to me. He'd be like, I didn't learn how to act until the second season. Dude, I said that and I believed it. But this was worst because you've been saying this since we were Yeah, since to act. But I was like, no, will's great, No, it was I was by far the worst actor for the entire episode, Lily, everybody was nailing their jokes. I was laughing out loud at certain points, and then I would come on the screen it was like, hey, what am I doing with my hands? Which I had no I was like, I will, I will walk this way because I was told to walk this way. And then it was like, say, oh, I will get into it. It was no care came to be fair but I could have invented something. You had four lines and were the by far writer. I'm saying this, you were by far the best actor on the episode, by far, the best actor on the episode. And I'm including the adults, maybe Bill, because Bill was Bill and you knew what Bill was going to get and he was brilliant. You guys are crazy. I was like, what am I doing? Look, you were you were all. That's the thing is you were already Sean, like you had that the character was already there. You could tell there was some angst you had. You were the only one who was natural in your line readings, especially in the cafeteria scenes, like Sean was already there. And then there was the rest of the show, and it was like it was weird. That's funny because I guess in a lot of ways, Sean was an easy like I mean, you know, Sean was was it was so easy to not be Corey, you know what I mean, Like is so definedt and he's so anxious and he's so like just outwardly freaked out about everything. That to have his best friend be like reserved and kind of cool, like it was an easy Like he was such a good foil, do you know what I mean? Like, well, he was an eleven year old stand up comic, right, right, That's what it was. That's what I realized when I was watching it. It was like, oh, the show is about an eleven year old stand up trying to go to school, which is what it seemed like to me, like all like he was doing bits the whole time, totally, and he does this thing that that was so funny, like to not to realize now he you know, he has that like uh and this is a classic Michael Jacob's creator of the show. This is a classic thing that he does as a writer and as in in person too, where he sort of has a character just state exactly the obvious with so much cynicism, like well, I just hate everybody all the time. And like how didn't the eleven year old say that was so funny? Like it's so cute, right, And it's like I just realized, like oh that, like Ben, I always thought that was something. Well here in general, I was amazed at how much of the show what Boy Meets World became, was already there. I was blown away by how much was encoded into the pilot because I truly believed in my head after all these years that the show developed and changed, it became this thing, which it did. I mean, it definitely grew, but you could see the heart was there in the pilot, and that was truly Uh. I did not expect that. I really thought that the pilot was going to be like, what is the show? And instead I was like, oh no, it was all there, Like there was so much of the show, was there? Yeah, I thought there were so many. First of all, I'm not in the pilot. I do not appear until episode four, so I truthfully don't remember. I'm assuming I did watch it when the show aired in in because I probably sat with my family to watch the show that I knew I was going to be on, But I don't have really a memory of watching the pilot. Um, but I was amazed at how much like all of the different layers. Like now, when you watch a pilot, it's very much let's just meet the characters. But this the storyline of Corey is learning about love in school because of Romeo and Juliet, and then love impacts his own life inside his family's home because he's going to a baseball game that he's very excited about with his older brother, and then he gets ditched by his older brother, so now love means, you know, something bad to him. Then he gets reminded that he once ditched somebody he loved, that as he got older, he may have ditched his father. He learns about that, and then he sees Mr Feenie possibly get ditched and hurt by love. And then in the end he realizes he could have a different impact on his sister's relationship to what love means. Like that is, and that's so many different layers of of deep storyline for want a kid show and to a pilot and a pilot in which not that much actually happens. I mean, it's not like he runs away and joins a circus. Here he goes to the backyard, but it has such emotional stakes. And I guess that's what I mean, is that the tone of the show, the seriousness of it. You know, like there's a period where there's not a laugh for like a good ten twelve minutes where you know Mr Feenie and Corey have that scene and detention that is just pure wonderful writing and acting. I mean, Bill is so good, He's I could not believe how amazing Bill Daniels is in the show, and you realize that was the defining character, and I, you know, this is we have to tell this story, which is that um the pilot. When we shot the pilot, when you guys weren't there, we did a table read and the network hated it, and the network immediately made Michael rewrite it. And Bill Daniels said, I'm not doing this kids show and threatened to quit. And Michael Jacobs rewrote the pilot from start to finish. It was a completely different script. I would love to get my hands on it. It's still involved Romeo and Julia, but it did not have any of this other stuff. And Michael Jacobs, the lore is that he wrote it in one night, and I think that might be who rewrote the entire pilot, only keeping certain jokes and certain themes the Romeo and Juliet. But what they delivered the next day was essentially, what what is this pilot? And it's I think it's really really good. And I was blown away by Bill's performance and his commitment and the tonal shifts the fact that it starts off as the sort of Dennis the Menace e God that you know, that wiley kid and the grumpy teacher, and then it goes somewhere else. It goes somewhere truly deep and meaningful. It explores all those relationships, like you said, the dad, the mom, the sister, the brother. And the original pitch for this show, which everyone kind of forgets, was what would it be like if the if instead of following the older brother on Growing Pains, they followed the middle brother. It was Growing Pains if it was the middle of Because Growing Pains was a hit show and Michael Jacobs was a, you know, an established television creator, they wanted to create a show for Ben Savage, so they partnered Ben and Michael and Michael then went to the network to create a show for Ben Um with his partners of Time, April Kelly Um, and the two of them came up with the show, which was, let's instead of doing the typical thing that's on television right now, which is focusing on the older brother and a family of younger kids, let's focus on the middle kid who gets lost. And that's exactly what the pilot is, right. He gets lost between his relationships with his teacher, who also happens to be his neighbor. He gets lost with his relationship with his dad, his sister, he's in between, he's in that stuff, and it's such a great place for a character to to sort of have to work out from. One of the things that amazed me when I was watching it was the genius that is, forget Bill Daniel's performance, which is next level, the next level, it's ridiculous, but the genius of having such a well written teacher to where you can teach on a show, I mean meaning all the shows that you watch, especially kids shows. It was like the dad would in part a lesson, or the mom would in part a lesson, or one of his friends he'd learned something that we boy means world literally had a teacher who could take the lessons that he's teaching in school and teach them so you could apply them to life. And it never been done like that was always the teacher was always the buffoon. Yeah, No, it was amazing. It sets this structure up that I think existed throughout point each world, but certainly in the early years, where you can you can deliver abstract ideas, abstract lessons like in the mouth of Finie. You can have things very declaratively stated love means this, sometimes this happens in life, whatever, the sort of you know, declarative abstract concept and then you have that intention with Corey's messy life or all of our messy lives. And and that's just a great structure for a sitcom, right, because it allows you to sort of make a thesis statement like this is the episode about love and all its permutations and Mr Feedie is going to always be right and and it's it's very almost biblical in a sense. Right. It's like you have this like abstract testament idea of like this is the lesson, this is the rule about life, and Mr Phoeney can sort of say it, and then you have just like these little sketches of scenes where Corey is going, none of this makes sense. What are you talking about? How do I relate love to my brother and love to my little sister and loved And he does and that's just and you as the audience are inside of that process and you're able to enjoy Corey, but you're also able to sort of record in the back of your mind like oh yeah, like there's there's there's something more important going on here that I need to think about it also showed though I thought it is very strange because it also again we should talk about this little bit. So there was an original pilot that was shot without myself, without William Russ. They recast a couple of people. William Russ is rusty, Rusty Rusty, Alan Matthew, Alan Matthews and Matt McCoy was the original Dad I'll never forget that. And Harry I'm gonna do this this poor man uh An injustice. I want to say Brandish or brand She was same, a fine actor. Just we've talked about this in several things where he was recast because he just wasn't tall enough. That's all it was. He was literally the same size as Ben already. They knew Ben was going to grow and they wanted somebody to be you're a kid actor. They're always concerned with how tall, how tall you are, because if you outgrow the people that are supposed to be older than you, or you get taller than the adults, are ruins because you're usually playing younger than yourself. I remember one of our conventions I ran into a fellow child actor grown up and they were like, why would we all turn out so short, and I'm like, because being short when you're a child actor is such a benefit because you can be ten years old and play eight or seven, you can be older and play so you end up casting short people shorter kids. And yeah anyway, so yeah, so that's what happened. They they recast, and so we the pilot, if memory serves, Reshooting the pilot was actually for me episode two because the first thing that we did was episode two one yeah one, uh was, which will be the next episode we watched, was actually the first episode that I ever shot. So going back to the pilot, the pilot wasn't even my audition scene. Like my audition scene was from that first episode, So going back and shooting it again was was very strange, I know for you guys, because you're like, oh, we've done this already, and then it was like, well, we've got to go back and shoot the first episode second, uh, to get everything kind of on the on the line. But they also kind of saw where some of the show was going to go because if memory serves, Lee Norris is in the opening title credits, but he's not in the episode. Yeah. Well, we had banked probably three or four episodes before anything aired, So he was a regular and was in the opening title sequence, which we can talk about, the wonderful opening title sequence. Yes, let's please, because should we start with the cold open? Yes, okay, let's start with Corey feeney uh and me and Chauncey Leo Pardy yep, who was the other best friend at the time in the let. Originally, Corey was supposed to have two best friends, Chauncey lor Party you guys might remember from the sand Lot and um what else. He was also did a bunch. Yeah, he ended up working a lot, but it didn't end up standing on our show. I think he was originally supposed to be another regular best friend. And then throughout the first season, and we'll talk about this, we kept replacing uh, the other best friends. We went through several Yeah, it was gonna be Corey and his two best friends, and Writer was one of those best friends. And then there was like a rotating third friend. Well, let's just say it. Michael just kept firing all the kids that that were I mean, but it's true. I mean, if we're gonna be talking about it, we called it the death chair, the chair that Chauncey is sitting in there, and it was every kid they brought in. Some of them didn't even make it to that. We've we've talked about this in the first episode we did didn't even make it to this. The second run thing that's that's not technically the death chair because we rearranged. I think in the next episode it will the cafeteria changes where different formation and then that him the death chair. Okay, just who ever sat in the chair was gone. Keep an eye on the death chair. So it's a simple, simple little scene. We introduced Corey and Mr Feeney, who, like their characters, are immediately well established. I thought, you know, it's just so funny. I also just was astounded at how direct everybody is with child, like Mr Fini's just mean, it's just a brat. I was like, Oh, we're going bold strokes, like right out of the gate. And then that opening credit sequence it is so dated. Oh my god, Bunkers, Well, I'm sorry, you want to talk about dated Before we even get to that, can we talk about how the big joke was a Steve Lawrence joke? Yeah, what exactly what this is? Jo? No, no, no, Steve Lawrence was he was he would come on and do like the Steven eaty kind of things, and he was always late night. They would bring him on and it was like, so the build up of the joke between these three eleven year old the latest, the latest, and it's like and when you so you've gotten eleven year old throwing out a Steve Lawrence joke and everyone going Steve Lawrence, it's that's because I had no clue what I'm nobody did, nor did anybody who watched the show. I will guarantee you there was not a kid in America that went they nailed that Steve Lawrence joke like that never happened because it was just the most random, like are you kidding me? They're doing a Steve Lawrence. Then during the opening credits, which that song so Ray Colcord did the music for Boys were all seven years he took a couple of years ago. May He rest in peace. Was just the sweetest, nicest man, and so you could do any type of music you wanted him to. They would bring him on and be like, well we're doing on rock and roll show this, and he'd like immediately just write and write a song. But that that theme song, it's so long, and it just keeps going and going through all these like transitions and like I just couldn't believe. And then there's like literally a roller blade like coming in and smacking Cory in the head, and it's like, what iss off the band aid? Like he's gonna the color It's like, you could not if you if you hired a creative now to be like, go make the most nineties open credits you can, they would pick that color palette, those outfits and those computer graphics. Oh yeah. Well it was also the start of obviously, with with being called boy Meats World. It was the start of us doing every photo shoot and every everything holding a globe. We're always throwing a globe. Always here's your world, Like all right, here we go. But I I distinctly remember two things about the opening title sequence. I remember lying on the They're like, we're gonna shoot the opening title sequence. Now I thought they'd pull stuff from the show. They didn't. They're like, all right, just lie on the bed and flip through a magazine. But look up at us as you're doing it. And I was like, so why am I Why am I flipping through? And as this is, you know, my first episode ever. So I'm not asking any questions, but like that makes sense, Okay, got it. Um, So I'm not looking at the magazine as I'm flipping through it. And then the other thing I remember is Betsy. Betsy was so funny she did that Betsy Rando played, played Amy Matthews. She um finished it, and we when we all got together to watch the pilot. I think we all got together to watch the pilot. Maybe we're some episode where we all got together to watch. And she looked at me right as her scene she puts the band aid on his head and she gives him this look as she walks away, and she turns to me in such a Hollywood way. She goes, that's my please watch our show look. And it was just the way she said it was so cool because she was if you look at she gives this big smile and she's like, oh, Corey, like this big kind of please watch our show. And it was just every time I watched that opening title sequence, it's so funny. You're like throwing the paper airplane. And there was only two lines in the script describing Sean. You know, you don't really get much character description, but it was the thin, sly best friend of Corey. That's kind of all we had to go on. But you know, like I said earlier, being you know, being being any sort of savvy or like calm in the face of ben savages. Cory just instantly created a character. But I do remember they wanted me to be a troublemaker. That was like early on discuss so like, yeah, when they give they gave me a paper airplane and said just throw it like you're gonna hit somebody and get away with it. So that's my getting away with it. So when when did you guys meet verse? And how long was it between the first time you met and filming the pilot we all now know as the pilot. I remember the exact moment I met, I met you two. Oh my gosh, okay, writer, you go first, let me hear from your POV. Should we turn off Will's headphones? Yea. So we met in the photo shoot for the season. Every season they would have a photo shoot where they gathered the regular cast together and get that season set of photos. They do individual photos and the whole cast together. And we had already shot the piety. It was now the show had been picked up for thirteen episodes, which was half a season, and they brought us, you know, we all were supposed to meet, and we were in the makeup pair room of the of the uh photo shot. Yeah, and just immediately Will and I started talking into not shut up. It was like I remember, we talked music. We talked counting Crows day one, most nineties thing ever. We talked because you were you were really into them and I had just discovered them. We talked um, we talked about we were both leaving at the oak Woods. I remember immediately knowing that we were going to be neighbors and friends. And I mean, I just you were older. You were the coolest, coolest kid I had ever met, coolest person. You had your own car, what was aras? I still have it? A GTS I still have. And then you had a sub Wolfer in it yea. And I think like week one, not day one, but like week one brought me in and played Paul's boutique, Paul Paul Revere Two Boys, Yes, Paul Revere by Beas Two Boys, which has this crazy bass sound that goes and it just like blew my ears out. And we're sitting in the car and I was just like, if I could ever be sixteen, have a car and a subwoffer and be as cool as Wilfred l Oh, my god, Yeah, you were the best dude. I remember that exact. I was saying, I'll never forget it. I was sitting in the makeup chair. I was so excited to be there. I turned to my left and there are. So I had met Ben at the audition, So Ben came to the screen test, and the screen test was between myself, your brother, older brother, Shiloh, and Jason Marsden, who is still one of my best friends this day and and played Jason Marsin on the show. So I had met Ben before, but there you were. I turned, I'm I can I can picture it. I can picture what I'm wearing. I'm in jeans and the shirt that I passed the poster every day. It's hanging on my way, got the tight eye shirt on. Remember, yes, you have the tied eye shirt on. And I turned, and you know, I'm turning to my left and there you are, and we started the first conversation. I'm still sitting in the chair and the thing that scared me the most about that day is I just met Rusty had just met everybody for the first time. You and I got along instantly, and then they're like, all right, we're gonna put you all together for pictures. And they put us all together and I put my arm up around Bill Daniels Mr. Feenie, and he turned to me and he went, don't touch Foenie. And I really shot my hand back down and I was like, so now, all of the pictures Bill that it was amazing, the pictures so convoluted because it's like, was he in character because he's not wrong, Like you shouldn't have your arm around feeding you were trying to just be like friendly. It's not wrong. But it's also so classic Bill to just be kind of grumpy. Don't touch Poenie, don't just like that, And every single picture that they have now my hands are in my pockets and I am like, I'm not touching anyone ever again. It was It was amazing that first photoshoot day. Yeah, that was that is are our intro to each other and to the world, and it was Yeah, it was crazy. It was crazy. So writer did Shilo audition to play Eric. Yeah, he screwed. Actually, he ended up not doing the network test. So Shilo. The reason I got Boy Meets the World is because Shilo had tested for the reason I was first brought into audition for Boy Mets World because my my older brother, Shilo, He's only eighteen months older than me, so we we always kind of went out for similar parts, or we are not that far apart. He had network tested for Michael Jacob's previous show called Almost Hone, almost didn't get the part, but between myself, Shilo, and Jason Marks so so because of Shilo's association, I got brought in to audition for Boy Meat's World, I ended up getting the part. Meanwhile, Shilo went off and did a pilot on another network with Ed Dector and John Straus, who became writers on our show. They created a show called odd Man Out, which also got rebooted five years later. Whatever, that's a whole another story. But my brother was a star of his own pilot and end that show did not get picked up. And when you're a kid actor and you're you're you're in demand, all the show's pounce like if you're if your contract didn't get picked up. So Shilo got asked to come in and audition for Eric. He never actually did it. They asked him to screen test for Eric or he got offered a show on NBC We're called The Mommy's where he could just be one of the sons on the Mom's, the older teenage son. And he looked at the equation and you know, my parents and we're all like, this is crazy, Like writer is going to be on this TV show? Do we want Hilotte audition to be on the same TV show? And it was like, no, you just take the offer on this other show. But of course that made our lives incredibly complicated because that meant my mom had to shuttle between two different sets. So yeah, so he ended up not audition. And I'm not sure if they brought in a third person or if it just ended up being you and Jason Will, but Chilotte did not finally being the two I think he so I met him the first time because it was the three of us reading okay, so maybe okay, so maybe he you know, I don't know if he actually almost almost for Almost Home, we did that and then it was I. It was then between Jason and I because Shilo we heard had Shilo had dropped out quote unquote of going to Boy Meats Role. But again it was down you talked before about how small a world it is. It was down to the three of us twice in a row, and Jason got got Boy Met Are, Jason got Almost Home, and then I got Boy Meets World um, and Shilo was doing the Mommy So yeah, so it was it worked out. But I was with my dad in in Los Angeles and I did not think I got the part. I was a terrible read. Ben was there. Ben came in and read with us. I was awful, and my dad said, well, what do you want to do, kiddo? You know, like, it's what do you want? I went. I remember the Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum in Hollywood, and I was like, I want to go to the Rippley. He's like, all right, fine, So we went there, and until about ten years ago it was actually there. Across the street from the Ripleys Believe It or Not Museum, there was a bank of what was called um pay phones kids, where you actually had to put in money and dial a number and uh somebody else. KL five four thousand appeared on the other How can I connect your call? S appeared on the other side. And um, I called my agent and my dad said, just call your agent. Tell me you didn't get it, and we're going back home. And I called my agent, said, you got it. It's been picked up. You've got to you've got to move to l A. And my dad and I ran through the Ripley's Beauter not Museum and then went and found the oak Wood because I had to live in l A like two weeks later, something ridiculous like that. And that was thirty years ago. So it happened very quickly once it happened, and then you're at the photo shoot, and then you're friends with writer and then you've got this going, and then you're in front of the audience and it's just it's then you're going It's so the photo shoot happened before you, guys ever even had a rehearsal day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it was like a week before the week I guess. Okay, So then by the time you get to rehearsal and you're starting this this pilot episode, are you guys already feeling like friends and family, like it's all you've already started a bond. I mean, Will and I definitely yeah, I remember Ben and I did not start upon Ben was really into sport and I was not. And I remember like a lot of the first early episodes, you know, he he wanted to play basketball, like with the other kids, and and there were always other kids because you had extras to um. But but so I remember during the pilot, and but also Ben was working a lot because he was in so many you watch this pilot, He's in so many scenes in every scene, and that's a lot for a kid, So he would be gone. He was sort of distanced, you know, like and and yeah, like I said, he was very much in his own world. He was very um. I remember him being just working and being busy and needing to learn his lines and also going to school. And he was sort of at that point Hollywood royalty for us, you know, like because his brother's show had been such a hit. He was also the person who like knew what we were doing more than any of us. Um. And so you know, I know I didn't really connect with Ben. I would say until like episode four or five did we start really getting to know each other. I think in part because I was just one of these other kids, you know, like I wasn't part of the family. I think Will you probably connected with Ben because you were part of at the time the show, you know, it was it wasn't supposed to be a school show. It was supposed to be a family show, and so the priority was given to the show, you know, the parents and you Will and Lily, and so that was sort of more the like core group. I was like an outsider. It was like me and Chauncey Leo party who's then gone, and then like you know, whoever else they brought in that week that could potentially stay. But yeah, so it was really I was just lucky to have Will, like I know, we bonded right away. And then I love school like I loved I already loved school, and I loved my studio teacher David Colmbs. David David Colmbs, Yes, David Colmbs. And he had been brought on because he had taught Fred Savage on on Boy, I mean on Wonder Years, so they brought him on and um, just a genius spoke five languages, could teach on these subject He was a personal tutor to the kids of the Shaw of Iran remember us. He was a very eccentric, interesting dude. And we'll have plenty of David Combs stories I'm sure throughout the years, but for me, he was really like just immediately, he was so smart and we just imediately bonded. So I loved school and I love hanging out with Will. Um. Yeah, it was, but it felt very comfortable automatically. It's it. But you're right though, it wasn't Corey and Sean. That wasn't a thing yet. Um, you know it was. It wasn't until several episodes later, which we'll talk about where you know, especially when Danielle joined the cast, where it was really like, oh, this is the show, Like that's when that's when the whole thing kind of changed. And it was until then it was us in those very strange clothes, um, which which were just very I mean, that was one of the things that struck me as we're you know, if we get back, as we get back into the episode, so we're past the opening title sequence, and opening to me sounds like a right like music you would hear in line at Disneylands, yes, exactly, or you're in a carousel just going around and by the fifth time you're like, stop that song. Y. Yeah. So this episode was written by Michael Jacobs and April Kelly. Does anyone remember April Kelly? I do, Yes, I do too, Okay, I remember her little dog, yeah, and her Ferrari. Remember she'd always drive up to the Ferrari. I think I met I think, I do think I met April Kelly early on. I do remember her. I remember what she looks like, and I can picture an outfit. But then April Kelly just kind of disappeared. She was here the whole first season, wasn't she the first season? Yeah? And then she left after the first season, and uh, as far as I know, left the industry, but her name is on every episode and she got paid for every single episode. Okay. And then another thing I wanted to talk about is that this episode, the pilot episode, was directed by John Tracy. But then I'm pretty sure this is the only episode of season one John Tracy directed. No, he came back. He came back. Maybe couldn't because season one was all David David David Trainer. Yeah, and David Trainer is a legendary television director. John is too, but David is best known for he did every single episode of that that seventies show. Um, yeah, I have some great David Trainer stories as we get into the season. But David David was incredible. John I remember just being very funny, thick Boston accent um, and he would he would yell and sort of shout and like tell everybody way to go. And his brother Kevin Tracy was also on the show, UM as a camera coordinator. I believe now, at first, if you look at the pilot episode, it's I noticed this. It says the first thing. It says he was the stage manager the first episode, Wow, okay, which he was By the time I had gotten there, he already wasn't. But I guess for that first episode he was the stage And so does anyone know why John only directed the pilot and not anymore in that first season? Was there a story there? If there is, do we not know it? Um? I think I think that's pretty typical. I think it was typical for somebody to direct the pilot and then move on, because the goal is a director is to direct as many pilots as possible, not to get stuck on a series, because when you direct a pilot, you make money on every episode for the rest of that show's life. So didn't need to in a way, you know, like but I don't remember if there was a reason that John did not come back. But David Trayner was truly a genius. He was like a classically trained Shakespearean theater director, and he really defined the tone and the and the look and the field of the show. So I think probably what happened is David Trayner came on and they gave him the entire first season in his contract. They said, like he probably said, if I'm coming to do your you know show, and you want my talents, I have to do X many episodes, if not the whole season, like a certain guaranteed amount. And so that's probably what kicked in. And then they just had David Traynor, which was wonderful because he really set an incredible environment for all of us. But in my head, he is he's seven feet tall. I mean, I remember him being six six seven. I think he was, I mean he was, yeah, and he's so very thin. Yeah, And so the way he walked across stage, he could like go that you know, that cavernous stage with sound stage we talked about, he could do the length of it in what felt four stripes. It was it was it was crazy and he I'll never forget what feeling like such a dope because, um, we were doing the first first episode, which turned out to be the second episode that's aired, um, and uh I said something like, well, you know how I did it in the audition and in front of everybody's like, yeah, who cares how you did it in the audition. I just remember being like, oh, man like and he was never mean about he did it with a smile on his face, but it was like, oh jeez, I'm just gonna keep my mouth shutting do what I'm told. Uh. So it was such a strange environment to go because again it was just like you, I didn't know any of any of of of making television like this none. This is not how we did any of the Nickelodeon stuff. So everyone just assumed I knew what I was doing. And then it's just kind of you're just going yeah. I mean, it's like David started and you're just going that's David. Trayner would have been the first person to teach us some of the basics of sitcom acting, which are you don't have a fourth wall and you have to like like, for instance, you always have to stand, like if you're having a conversation with somebody, you have to stand with your shoulders open so the camera can see your entire fits. So it's like if you notice everybody on Sitcom's kind of stands at like an awkward angle to each other and it feels weird. We make it look normal because you get used to it as an actor and you but you have to sort of force your body to do something that's not natural, and you're not turning. You have to turn the right way so you don't like you don't square fifty fifty with people, you turn us slightly out and then like, yeah, if you're gonna be talking to somebody over to your right, you gotta make sure you don't turn your head away from the car, like all these basic things that of course, if you're a season theater actor like Bill Daniels, you just know. But for us, we had to be taught that, Like you have to tell kids, like, it's not like you're really talking to this person, you're performing talking to this person. Here's the way to do that, you know. And I remember David Trainer was so good at all those little tricks and teaching us the basics of sitcom acting. Yeah, So the first scene that we see after the cold open is and and then the intro we see Corey listening. It's they're performing Romeo and Juliet at the front of the class and Corey is listening to the Phillies game. Um. In this scene is the first time I really noticed the how loud the laughs were. And I couldn't tell if it was if it were those the sounds they collected from the live studio audience or was the laugh track just that loud because the laughs sound like they're in your ear. I've heard this about Boy Meant World before, like that that has an extremely loud laugh track compared it does. And I think that is true, you know, I mean, like, yeah, I think for whatever reason, you know, maybe it's maybe it was a creative choice or somewhere along the line, the show just got cranked up because it is very loud. And yeah, I mean there, I'm sure that there was some adherence to the genuine laughter, but there was also a machine making the laughter sounds like. Also, they didn't know us, the audience didn't know us yet, So for the first few episodes, I think it's mostly laugh track. I think until we aired, it was really mostly laugh track because then you get fans, and then the fans come in. But until then, Michael used always he would always tell me that I'd say something or hey, that joke, did land that whatever, and he always look at me and goes To this day, I still can hear him in my in my head saying, don't worry, I have a machine that thinks you're hysterical. And so that's what he would say, I have a machine that thinks you're hysterical. And it's like, okay, well that's Can we talk very briefly about the girl who is lying on the on the desk. She was amazing, yes, and why did we never see her again? Because she was the best other than you, she was the best child actor of the lot. Yeah. We used to quote her for years. I remember Ben and I would say after each other, you touched me with that knife, you better be great. I remember I literally wrote that down. I'm taking notes and I'm like, why did she disappear? She was awesome? Like it's just a revolving cast those first few episodes, you know, like and it's true, like you want the thing about a show like this is you're when you're you know, and this is to Michael's credit, you don't want to make too many decisions ahead of time ESPEC show when it comes to cast. You wanted to be an ensemble. You need to see where there's chemistry. And I think that that is in part of physical thing. Chemistry, Like you need to like do these people just work together? Do they respond to one of do they make each other smile? Is there a twinkle in the eye when two people? Sometimes it's just not there, you know, and sometimes like and I think that they you know, we can't keep trying these first four or five episodes. You're gonna see this, you know, some kids come in with two lines, one kid coming and then like somebody like Leonora's can't comes in and it's just the dynamic clicks. Or when Danielle when you came in it was magical. It was more magical and it was like, oh. And that was also the same episode where they finally fired the third best friend. And I remember David Trayner, great director and so supportive. They gave me all of this guy's part. So I showed up for work that day and my part went from like two lines to like five scenes and a whole bunch of work on, and I was so nervous, and David Traynor grabbed me and pulled me in front of the whole crew and say, can I just say, for the record, this is long overdue. Can everybody give writer a big round of applause? Remember was going to do this this week and he deserves it, and everybody applauded the whole crew, and I remember just being like, Okay, I got this. And you know, that was the episode that the show came together, because I remember with the audience that week and we'll talk about it when we get to it, but like they reacted so much to the Tapanga character in contrast to the Corey character and in contrast with the Seawn. It just all came together. That's when the show started. We had episodes before, but that is when the show started, in my opinion, and because it wasn't just Corey and Topanga, but it was also Corey Sewn. I mean that was the show then evolved and became We've talked about the two boy meets worlds where then Eric kind of had his own thing going on, and but the three of you, especially, that was the start, and that was you know, you're right, it was kind of getting there took took a few episodes, but once it did, then it was kind of often. No, this is clearly a show about a teacher and a student. And yeah, this episode absolutely compelling. I cannot believe how compelling Bill Daniels was. He's so good, I mean, now so good. You guysn't notice he's shaking his handshaking. I didn't notice it. I remember, I remember from when I was a kid, and I remember seeing it, but I did not notice it in the episode. I noticed in the episode because Ben and I were obsessed with it, because of course we were scared kids, and he was scary. He was this professor, intimidating, and he had a professional manner. He would show up memorized. He was so old school, you know, we knew him from night writer or whatever. We had like visions of this great actor, and on tape night when the audience showed up, we could tell that he was nervous. Maybe he wasn't, maybe he was just shaking hands. I don't know. I mean that happens to actors. But I remember Ben and I being obsessed with that, and like whispering to each other. Did you see his hands are shaking? And in some ways, I think it made us feel better because it was like, oh, if this guy who was so scary to us, Mr Feenie, if he's nervous, it's okay that we're nervous, you know. In fact, it's almost cooler that we're not shaking. You know, we can sort of have this authority as kids, like, look at us, We're we're cool with the audience. I remember that so distinctly, and like just hit me like a lightning flash. When I saw Bill's handshake, I think it's in this this scene because of the way he grabbed a radio, I could see his handshake. I was like, oh, that's right. I remember just always watching that. Does anybody now that is one of the questions I had. Does anybody know how old Bill was when we started? Well, ninety three, the year was ninety three? He is now so twenty nine years right, yeah, exactly thirty from five would be sixty five and then add one sixty six. How much of the pie do I get to eat? Is the question? Um? So okay, alright, so all right, he's already like sixty mid mid sixties. Okay, by that time he looked great. By the way, the young girl playing Juliet is named Kristen Moore. She deserves her flowers. The young talent we we didn't get to see again, her name is Kristin Moore. So she was phenomenal. She really was great. She had a couple of lines. If you get if you get one line and you get a solid laugh on the one line, you get that pretty impressive. Absolutely, so that was great. So in the scene Ben gets detention. We learned that Ben gets detention and then Corey gets detention. It's gonna be really hard for us to go back and forth between Ben and I. I will do it all the time. I'll try to correct myself when I do what should we call them? Should? We should? We just stick with character never going to be able to do We're never going We're gonna go in and out both the time. So Corey gets detention, he goes home, and this is where we meet Eric Matthews. Yes, we do well. First, can we just very quickly talk about how times have changed? And they showed a knife fight in school essentially, I mean, doesn't it immediately cut to shooting. That's later we're shooting at the video shooting at the video game, but it's it's somebody holding somebody else down on a desk, trying to stab him, and the principle comes over like okay, I mean it's like it's a different time. Um. But then we meet Eric Matthews. Yeah yourself, dude, you were great. No, No, I was not. Why do you think you're so? It was because the scene, the scene at the end. So the first scene, it's not it's very stiff, obviously, and I have no idea what to do with my hands, and it's very awkward the first scene. But the seconds the scene where I come back and I'm acting, and I'm like, news flash, I'm not cool. It's the worst thing ever. You're so hard on yourself, like sit, kids, sit, come acting. It wasn't much better overall, but it was just in this show. I mean I remember literally like I finished it last night and I was like, every single person in that show was better than me, every single one. I think you're just way too hard on yourself. Because I better. I don't get me wrong, I certainly got better, but that first episode that was painful for me too. It was like I am acting now and I have to stay. The only thing I'm missing is literally looking down for the tea on the ground to where to put my feet, because they they give you these little tea marks to where mark. You're just uncomfortable, dude, But it doesn't really play that way. I'm sure you're you're projecting your discomfort. I don't know. I just met that. Like I said, the writers didn't know who Eric was. You were sort of a stock old all the deeds and one I remember the only the only time I was ever mentioned in a review at all at the very beginning. So we did. There was one table read we did where we had just aired. It was the table read right after we first came out, and Michael read um reviews in front of everybody. Oh I remember the reviews. The one he said about Bill Daniels was for thirty years. Oh no, what about Bill Daniels was great? He said, uh, you know Bill Daniels. Mr comes to Mr Feeney and then the quote ended with a great actor stoops and I remember Bill putting his head in his hands and all of us laughing, and Bill probably felt. And two Emmys for st elsewhere at this right and he's coming onto this kids show he must have felt, and a sitcom to like, he had not done multi camera sitcom, and like, you have to remember, this is hard for people to wrap their heads around these days. But back then, you were either a TV actor or a film and if you were actor or stage of course, but Bill was kind of all of those things. But TV was kind of the lowest here. If you wanted if you wanted to make no money but do quality work, you were a theater actor. You wanted to you know, if you wanted to be famously the best was movie actors. And then for being a TV actor, especially a multi camera sits, a sitcom TV actor, and then a show sitcom TV actor, Oh my god, he was. It was like working the drive through. Can I read you a review? Please? Okay? So? David zero Wick of The Baltimore Sun wrote, predicting Nielsen's success for Boy Meets World, dot dot dot is not a particularly daring or incisive call. It's mainly based on scheduling and stars. Then he continued, forget quality, these are kids were programming for on Friday nights. Here's where you have to give ABC some credit for going an extra mile and adding William Daniels to the cast as Corey's nemesis, his sixth grade teacher, Mr. Peenie. The confrontation between the Hey, I'm just a kid Corey and the arch and starch Feenie makes this series something an adult doesn't have to feel ashamed of watching amazing. He ultimately gave it two and a half stars out of four, but said I won't argue with anyone who wants to give it three stars. Okay, there's something that's better, because that's gonna say. I think the only one I heard was that with that I was mentioned at all was the older brother is a cardboard cutout prop. That's the only one I remembers, kind of just stand in for Yeah, no, I play the r you are archetypal older brother. Yeah. I mean, in some ways we all are in these early days, except for Ben and Bill, you know, which was a great dynamic. It was a dynamic, great dynamic between the two of them, It really was. But um, I just remember shooting in that bedroom scene, and if I'm I could be wrong, I was thinking about this last night, but I think our beds constantly switch alight, which is whatever the episode was was like, now that's Corey's bed, well, now that's Eric's bed. Now that's Corey's bed, Now that's Eric's bed, um, And it just kind of went back and forth over and over, and it was always like entrances and exits. Man like Eric walked into room, do not move hands, say Corey line walk out of room? Can we get to scene three? Can we please please? Scene three? We go downstairs, We've got the parents. Yeah, we meet the family for the first time. We finally meet the family and uh a full house reference. Yes, it was. Yeah, so I thought we didn't do that to like season five, but no, it's really funny that. Yeah, it's like, oh my god. I couldn't believe it. And Lilly was Lily. I remember Lily as kind of being like, jeez, it's weird. She's just spouting the lines and it's not to me. It was like, oh, it's not really work. When you watch it, she's adorable and hitting some pretty great beats. What was the line at the end where she said where she says, I'm I remember. I don't even remember because I wasn't there for the pilot obviously, so I don't remember ever hearing Lily say it, but I remember that she one of the things she says, a line she says during the tea party with Ben at the end. You guys all quoted, you repeated the way she said it all the time, and I think I wrote it, you know which one? Oh my gosh, I'm gonna need to find it. But it was like, I'm I'm not telling there. She had some reading during that line. Gosh, I wish I wrote it down, but I I hear Ben and writer saying we used to make fun of her voice because it was some Yeah, well, you know, it's so funny what you like. I totally remember what you were saying. Will about there was the same because when you're it's hard to remember that. When you're a kid, a lot of what you do is compare yourself to other kids, and especially younger ones, and you're so proud of yourself for not being that dumb younger kid. And I remember comparing myself to Lily and thinking, well, she's not a real actor, wish, but she's like five, she's good and she's amazing. And I was like, but I remember being so smug, and I think that was part of being twelve, or I was so Ben was only twelve, and I think it was part of our like, well, at least we're not just like you know, because it was hard. It's hard to get a six year old to say lines and to stand you have anything right. I mean, I look, I have a seven year old, I know, and like so the idea that she was able to deliver what she was doing is incredible. But at the time, I was just so proud of myself for being like, well, I know how to read and hit my marks and I know how to really how to read. Isn't that ridiculous, But that's what you do when you're a kid. You're just so proud of like ninety six year old exactly. No, she was. But that's the thing I look back at that now. She was exactly what she was supposed to be. She was adorable, she was hitting the lines, and she was a great foil to Ben. And that that the scenes where she just all of a sudden where she will get into it, but where she grabs the doll and throws it and then just offers him the chair, all that stuff is great. Yeah. I mean, I I think this is a really great opening scene too, for Betsy and Rusty, Amy and Allen talk about two like wonderful parent characters. Like just right off the bat, they have a great dynamic. You feel the love in this family. Just want to be part of the family. Yeah, immediate. It's like it's so comforting, it's so welcoming, and yet it still has that level of irony, right like self awareness. That's that's like the sort of boy meets World. Michael Jacob's magic is that, you know, it does the predictable thing, the very sweet loving but then everybody is just just sarcastic and ironic enough, just like singing each other enough, you know, and like especially Rusty as the dad is just you know when when when you come for this big like Corey moment where he later where he's like, Dad, I left you, and like the way the Rusty just kind of plays it off like I'm cool man. It's good. Yeah, it's per they did. But it's also it's such a typical thing in in sitcoms about kids, and it was done here too, but it was done in a much I thought, a better way, better written way. At the end of the day, it just comes down to the writing. There's there's always the sense of someday you'll you'll understand kid, Like you get that in every show. Someday You'll understand kid. But it didn't come off like that with this episode. It wasn't it was like, it wasn't other people telling I mean, even though it was it was Corey. It's personalized, like it becomes this journey with me and that's like, we'll get into it. But when you see Phoeny get ditched on his dinner, it's like, oh, he's humanized and he you know, he's no and and for Corey to have it's it's exactly played out so that like you'll know when you're older, is played out in story and right, that's what I mean. So it's not that kind of sitting them down. You'll figure this out when you're Can we eventually talk about Phoene just making a salad. We'll get to that, okay. Um. So in this scene though, this is this is the scene where we find out that the family already knows that Corey has detention, and he's like, how do you possibly already know that? And now we find out as the audience, Oh, he stuck his head over the side of the fence and told me and you learn as the audience. And by the way, that's all they say. It's not made a big deal about like drafts. The teacher lives next door. It's just that's it. The audience learns, Oh, Phoeney stuck his head over the fence. He lives next door, so that the side of us on the side fence. That's what we learned right from there, which is pretty amazing. Their backyards to each other. Who ms directly opposite the front door. You go into the front door on the left side, through to the kitchen and go into the backyard. Then they're not neighbors. He lives, he lives behind them. It's still a neighbor, my friend. I guess, alright, you get the same four we have. So then we go back to school. We learned about detention. We go back to school. Now, this scene I thought was a little was really interesting, so I thought it was going to again watching it for the first time in twenty nine years, maybe maybe the first time ever. I don't have a memory of it. I thought. When Corey says to Sean, hey, should we go to the game on Friday? Let's go, And Sean says, well, what about detention and he's like, don't worry about that. In my head, I thought, oh, now the rest of the episode is going to be he ditches detention. They come up with a scheme to go get tickets. No, none of that. And uh. Also the first first forgotten sibling is reference I talk, I make a joke about core. Uh Chauncey's character being an only child. Yeah, like he's lucky to be an only child because he has bought a hot launcher. I don't know what or he brings it. I don't know, but I but I was immediately Wait, so Sean was already established as not an only child, which then gets completely forgotten as the seasons go on. Right, yeah, so you you didn't like your lunch because you must have been I'm assuming the second child. So second child problems you get forgotten because there are too many other things to think about. And Chauncey has a delicious lunch because he's an only child. Um, but yeah, just the opposite of girl, I'm sorry, I always wanted to buy my lunch, Like if somebody made you lunch that like, you wanted to buy lunch a school, didn't you. It's a whole different thing. I'm just I'm just that's it was a weird joke to me because I was like, I would rather have bought lunch at school than have the sandwich that I felt like. I thought, Yeah, but I don't know, I think that's a class distinction that's different in cities than suburbs. Maybe, I guess may think if yeah, I think if you're in the city, your your parents just pay the cheap launch or you get the free lunch, and then if you have really loving parents, they like make your lunch. But it's like which you are, like vegetarian crappy was like such a source of ship. Oh man, I would always get the hot pizza lunch at the exactly anyway something shiny um. Yeah, So that that whole. But Danielle talked about this at the very big getting about continuity for our show, and it was just all over the place all the time of who had siblings, who didn't have siblings, where did you live, who did you live with all this stuff. Writer had a very good point, to Michael's credit, you don't really want to get attached to anything. And if in sitcom land, if something is funny, that is king whatever is funny, and so if it made sense to have a joke that Writer is not as well taken care of because he's got siblings, make that joke, and five episodes from now, we want to say that Writer is an only child, will do that too. That's I mean, that's the evolution of Sean too, because like, you know, I took over for some other actor and they gave me a sister for that episode. Then they forgot about it, and then it was really just like one trailer park joke that established that Sean lived at a trailer park. And I will find it. I can't wait to see it because I remember it was just like an offline It was just an offhand, like one line joke that then became this like recurring joke that then became the drama. The central draw of Shawn's life is that he's so poor and that his parents have abandoned him at different times, and that he you know, complicated, and that we ended up developing this entire history out of what really started as they make fun of the poor kid joke at some point, you know, And I can't wait to see it. All right, let's go to the treehouse. Yes, I don't think I ever. That's the one thing that went through my head is I don't think I ever got to do a single scene in that treehouse. No, I don't. I don't think I did really either. It wasn't very big, but by the way, we don't use tree houses enough on shows. It was beautiful, so cool, really cool, really really cool, really different for a set, Like I thought it looked great. I just was like, why don't Why is there not another one of these? So I watched this episode with my son, Um, and uh, maybe now is a good time. I recorded a conversation with him before and after, and the reason I bring it up is because I think I didn't get this on tape when we were we talked on with my microphone. But uh, he was blown away by the idea that everything was shot inside. When I told him that, like, even when we're in the treehouse that's on a stage, we are inside, and he could not get over that. That was like the most shocking thing that ever happened. It was like, wait, so you never went I was like, no, dude, that's the way he should film a TV show. It's everything inside. And this scene was especially confounding because you're outside in the treehouse. And I guess, like, maybe we assume everybody knows that, but probably not, especially not kids. Right when they watch a show, they believe in the reality of its outdoors. Um. But yeah, she has never seen an episode of Boy Meats World, right, Not completely true. He had watched one episode after we had done a taping. We did one of these charity rewatches last year, and so it was cute up on Disney Plus. So the next time he turned on Disney Plus there was an episode. He was like, let's watch your show, and we did, and it's from like fifth season. I had no recollection of it. He thought it was so weird and he never wanted to do it again. But now he's been watching sitcoms, he's been watching multi camera shows, and I realized it's kind of appropriate for him to watch it, and so I sat down with Indie. I asked him a little bit before we started, and then we talked a little after. Um, and so I put it together a couple of minutes. Um, and this is a clip I am calling too much shirts great, what do you think the show is about? A dude? What are your favorite TV shows right now? I don't already have like a favorite right now? Nicky Ricky, Dicky and Tricky and Dawn the Heat Nicky Ricky, Ticky and Dawn, And I've already finished. What about thunder Man's? Did you finish the thunder Man's? Yes? So I mostly watch Terry Kids A big hit. Well, I think maybe that's a good indication that you'll like this show. But I haven't seen it for thirty years, so I don't know how I'm going to feel about it. What do you think I'm gonna look like? He is? So? Thanks man? No, yeah, I don't think I had freckles by that time. I had freckles when I was your age, but they were gone by the time I started the show and was shiny makeup? Were you and maup? Get back to you and let's watch it. Any initial thoughts into it? Was good? You didn't laugh? I never do that to any of them. What was good about it? I don't know. I did thank you with it? Oh? Yeah, sorry? Was your favorite part? Yes, I have a small part, though I didn't really do much. He did it a lot. What did they do? He did? Said high? And you had the same spot every time you talked in the cafeteria. We never liked got up. Well, I was in the classroom to Yeah, but you will always sitting whenever you talked to you was sitting, That's true. I don't think I stand in the entire pilot. I thought I sounded weird. My voice sounded like shaky to me. I like, all right, what did you think of a storyline with Corey? He's the main kid? He was all about him? What are you talking about? You saw me? I'm just sitting there only about you know. Come on? What about the teacher? What do you think of him? He was weird? Why because he musta Do you think he's a good teacher? Why not? He's mean? Oh he thought he was mean? Huh Yeah? Well what about the parents? Did you think they were good parents? Yeah? But you did? Dad? You're cheesy? Cheesy? What way you just think? What about Will? What about Will? Is the older brother? Was how is he me? He thought he was mean to? Did it look like Will looks now? No? Yeah, it doesn't look anything like him. All right? What did you think of our clothes and stuff? Do you watch shirts? Shirts? Yeah? They were really big, weren't they. Does it seem like old fashioned? Yeah? Really? Did it feel like like that's what it's like to be a kid these days? Too cool? Well, do you do you think you'd want to watch anymore? Sure? Yeah, And I have to say he has been begging to watch it every Phoenies mean interesting that you picked up the Phoenies mean kind of he did, because Phoenie is. I was amazed at how strict he is and how like authoritarian and but yeah, it was so funny to realize that that my son was really seen it through Corey's eyes. And actually the fact that he didn't even recognize, like he didn't even know Corey's name, I think as an indicator that he just saw Ben as a sort of avatar, do you know what I mean? He put himself in Ben's shoes, like he he thought the brother was mean, the teacher was mean, because that's how Corey sees the world, right, like that's how it starts. And he didn't you know, he's seven, so he's still kind of in the zone where I think if he's introduced to a character and they're like Mr Masters, get off of my face, which is like what Phoene says to him, He's like, he's not gonna get come back from that very easily. Now I have a question, was he right? Did you not stand throughout the entire episode? I think so. Yeah. After he said that, I was like, I don't. I'm only sitting in the cafeteria and sit in the classroom. So yeah, And I think it's like that for the first season until until the Coreys altern of the Friends episodes, I'm always just like, you know, I mean, in a weird way. I was sort of like this, what are the characters in the Muppets whether on the box watching? Yeah, I was kind of like that, right, Like I was just Coreries like sidekick in the cafeteria while we eat, because I just remember always having to eat and act the worst. You're good at it, though you are a great eat too much. I actually ate if you watch Bill Daniels, he's just like push his stuff around on his plate. That that's an actor thing. That's an active thing. You see that in every show. I literally watched it last night in mash where all the characters are pushing around the That is like a big actor thing. You just use you move your fork, but you don't actually eat smart and you're just chowing down. Michael rationalized that once why you were doing that is because you were poor and it's the only place you got food. And You're like, it sounds like a rationalization. He's like, yeah, I just made that up. Yeah, I I find a moment where I don't have to speak for a while and then take a bite there so that in the background somewhere people see that I am eating. It makes you think that I must be eating the rest of the time. But then that's the only time I really neat. But I'm not in the pilot, so what do I know. It depended. It depended on the episode and how fat I was towards the end, where I was very, very fat. I'd eat whatever they put in front of me. But so Phoene serves himself a salad which for two people, A salad for two which is what he made. By the way, it was the starter. I think he had a multiple course meal. Yeah, by the greens. There was nothing else in the salad. He didn't even slice a tomato. The man for I mean, it was like, help us. I'm pretty sure it was supposed to imply that he had a full meal, and it was. It was the starter. Now I have a question, have we has has. I know it was obviously the pilot, so it's the first time. But was that angle into Phoene's house ever used again? No, never, We never saw that again, kind of peeking into Phoenie's home. No, there's a scene later where I think Ben and him sit outside of Phoenie's home and have tea together or talk coming up. And but those were even very few and far between. You went in the house once when it became the with the de lou to see how lickt it is. I mean, you guys are in the house once. That's the one time we got to see inside Phoenie's houses when Corey and I turned his house into a B and B, and I remember it was really excited to finally be and it suddenly had two stories, which doesn't I don't think makes sense based on the outside. But yes, but that is that's the only time we actually saw that from into the you know, into Phoene's home was just that time of the pilot. Okay, I was curious about Yeah, I don't think we'd ever seen that again. And I thought that looked really great too. We have another uh he Corey makes a comment in this treehouse scene about America's Funniest Home Teacher, and I was like, wow, in the scene in this episode we have a full house reference and an America's Funniest Home video. Yeah, yeah, he didn't The only thing he didn't do is turn to the camera and go watch us on ABC Friday at eight. I mean it was like they did. They threw it in where they could. Well, if you keep it in the family, that makes sense. So this is the scene where we all of a sudden our heart strings pull for Phoenie and we realized that he has been stood up and that he is a little heartbroken about it. And now we've humanized this very stern teacher. Um and yeah. Then the next scene we're in with UH with Betsy and and well I guess Amy and Corey Uh in the bedroom and this is where she tells him that they're bringing in a renter too little scene, So you guys will did you notice the thing? What's the what's the switching of the beds? No? No, no, But Ben used to always say, we never wrote not only that, but it's also the duck hunt gun has no chord in one scene, and then the next scene has a chord and it is plugged in. So Ben, could I say, how come come? So whenever they wrote the line how come the first season, he goes and we used to tease him so much like comb you say it like that best second used to always bug literally wrote that down. And that's why the second I heard it, it was like all the memories came flashy back of you just being like, then, who come you see? H oh my god, yeah that was that, and the and the belt pulling which must have come later. He did this like kind of always grabbing at his belt to pull up his pants. That plus hokem ye, oh my god, oh my gosh, he'll keep it. We'll keep a hol comb tally going on the first season, I didn't know to sit and now now I'm going to pay attention to it. Uh So we learned that, you know, Corey once abandoned his dad as he got a little older, and get adding in another layer makes Corey think. And then we get into the next scene, which is the detention scene, which to me is just of every scene in this show was such a standout because of Bill Daniels. I I what and what luck that we had Bill Daniels. Seriously, I mean not only that, because we also know that there was for a while we weren't going to have him and he was going to leave. And the fact that leave that for Bill to tell us. To hear that from Bill, I wanted for that story. But he is so compelling. Now, did anyone else have a problem? And I get why they did it. I totally get why they did it, and it was necessary to do it. But the fact that he's such a stern teacher and there's nobody else in detention. Again, I got why they did it. They wanted the scene just between Feenie and Corey. I totally understand that that's what it needed to be, but I found it it's to me, it was like, there's no the entire school, there's nobody else in detention but Corey. Oh, you know, it's funny. I didn't think about it as being that this is the detention for the entire school. It was just his class, just for Phoene's class, and that there were other teachers running other detentions in the school. That's what I didn't think about it as such a spectacular scene. It's amazing. You know, the real risk of this scene is that there's not a laugh for you know, five minutes straight and and that you know you're going to dip into sentimentality, which I think Boy Meat's World did very often. But I couldn't believe how how serious it was and how willing it was to become a drama show essentially for an extended scene between two characters and man like that. Like like I said, when we started, I could not believe how much of boy Meat's World is already encoded in this episode. And I think it's because of this scene. I mean, they must have just knew they had nailed it when they shot the scene and you could see it and be like, oh, this is I want to endlessly watch these people change each other. You know, we Bill doesn't speak at the beginning. That's the amazing part about it is Bill doesn't speak. You know that Ben is doing his kind of stick and and Bill is doing everything while staring down at the page, and it still works. It's the bench stick is actually one of my favorite parts because, as Ryder mentioned at the very opening of the show, Corey's character is a little braddy and you're a little bit like, is this a likable kid? And one of the things I loved is that you see him push the button and keep pushing the envelope and pushing the envelope, and then even though he's out the door, he comes back in like I'm never gonna leave, Like you and I both know you're in control. I'm still ultimately a good kid. And I don't know. Yeah, and you did and you didn't even need to say it. You you saw it, you knew it. You now already love and know this kid is a good kid. Um, I don't know. I just I loved it. I love that beginning part. And then when Phoenie finds out that Corey was spying on him or that had seen him and that he was stood up, the change, the sternness with which Bill does that scene, it was I mean, it was just so compelling. I was absolutely eyes glued to the TV. But also perfect teacher where he uses it. He turned it into a teachable moment. I'm going to take this moment and I'm going to teach what I tried to teach you with Romeo and Juliet. I am now going to teach you right here because of this. And it was it's such a great turn and it's such it's it's it just shows such depth of the Phoenie character, which is, while you spied on me, you think this happened in my life. I'm not going to explain what happened in my life. I'm gonna use this to teach you about something. And it was just it's set the stage for every every other teachable Phoenie moment that you still have, which is another question we always get, which is what what moment you know, what did you learn from Bill or what did you learn from Phoenie? And it was always moments like this where it's that teachable and it was incredible. Just one of my favorite lines, ironically, is when he says during Bill's monologue moment, he says, you come and you go. You come into my class and then you leave me. And you know, he's basically saying like I only get you for one year, which turns out to another when Elevation show. But yeah, he says, you know, the time spent with me, I don't know if you learn anything or not. And it's like, if only we could tell them, like, you know, you're gonna be there for seven years, You're gonna be going to college with these kids. But he's also he's talking about I mean, he's were at the end of the day. You have to remember we're doing a kid show, which is what t G I F was and what this was specifically geared towards. And one of the main characters is talking about Shakespeare and Chaucer and some of the greatest poets and writers of all time and using that as a teachable It was again the idea of the teachable moment coming from a teacher, which is something that the joy that Boy Meets World could do as opposed to I learned the lesson from my dad. I learned the lesson from my mom. It's just kind of you've seen it before or the teacher was a buffoon. So the teacher teaching is just such a wonderful thing to watch all all the time. So yeah, that was I'm like you, Daniel, I just I couldn't move my eyes away from that scene because incredible, amazing, amazing. Okay, So then Corey goes back to the house and he apologizes to his dad for ditching him, and writer, you mentioned it briefly earlier, but the the how casual Rusty is about, Oh what you know, No, that's cool. I I get it. It's the circle of life. Um, he's just just what a he's such a cool dad. Yeah he was, which is why I think my son called him cheesy because he was cheesy because he's probably taking a dig at me in that moment. Like, Dad, you try and be cheesy, You try and be cool like that all the time, and I fail. Yeah. I love this scene, and I love how Rusty is so relaxed and like not precious about anything, as Rusty always is such an amazing actor. And then Lily so good, like he's just wonderful. And that's such a cute scene. You can see Corey finally changing right, like he's doing the things now, he's talking to his dad, he's hanging out with his sister. It's a It's a really great little scene. I thought, I'm not a huge fan of of of Runners. I get that not all runners are good, but I wish that the no, don't hug me was a thing that kept going. I thought that was a great moment and I thought that's one that could have come back later in the show. No, I think that's the only time it happened, and I think it was great. So yeah, yeah, Well the next scene we have Corey and Eric get to resolve their little conflict. Corey encourages Eric to call his date Heather um and which I think is really sweet. It's a nice little wrap up that now he wants his brother to be happy. He wants him to have that, even if it means pain for himself. He wants his brother to be happy. And then he goes downstairs and he has tea with his little sister and it's it is so cute. Was she tosses the doll. I love that. I thought that was such a wonderful moment where she just tosses the dollars like the doll because if you go back in the entire episode, a lot of scenes she's cradling it like a baby and feeding it and it's the most important thing to her, Corey, do you want it up there? To keep you saying? And the second she gets a chance to be with her brother, she discards it and here's the chair for you. It was great, Yeah, yeah, I love it. It's a very cute scene between the two of them. And then we learned in the tag. I thought this was very funny that in the tag we learn oh you thought Mr Feeney was stood up. Absolutely not. He's not a loser, you know nothing at all. It wasn't a date. It was his sister. I thought that was a really I was going to travel a very long way for a really light meal. It's like, hey, George, I drove six hours. Could you have thrown some chicken in this? Like? Thanks? Please? Just greens something. Yeah, I thought it was just it's very It's funny to me, like he that they could. They didn't want to leave it that he did actually get stood up. They wanted to clarify he didn't. Well. I think it was also it was also kind of clarifying that at eleven, you know, think you know, you don't really know. That's a good It brings us back to where Corey started, which is that he knows nothing. He knows nothing. You got to come back next week to see him learn again something else about we all learn together. Yes, Well, speaking of which, we will be back next week. We will be watching the next episode, which is season one, episode two. It's called on the Fence and yeah, I'm I'm excited to see it. I I feel like I was very interested in the pilot. I thought the pilot was way better than I was expecting it to be too, and so I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to see what this next episode was, which we've learned in this episode. Will that is actually the first episode you guys all taped together. I think so, yeah, I think this was the one. So I'm excited to excited to watch that. And uh, yeah, you guys have any closing thoughts, I think we I think just saying it was a lot better than I remember it being, and I'm glad it was. It was. Yeah, it was a great episode. And man, Bill Daniels can act. That's what That's what I took away from this. Will sign us off. We love you all, pod dismissed. Pod Beats World is an I heart podcast producer hosted by Daniel Fisher, Wilford Hill and Righter Strong. Executive producers Jensen Carpet and Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Daniel Romo, producer and editor, Tara suit Batch, producer, Lorraine Gurez, engineer and Boy Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at pod Meats World show or email us at Pod meets World Show at gmail dot com.