Week 8 Vikings at Chargers Thursday Night Football Recap -- ROOKIE DAY!

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Matt Locke in motion back to the left, Herbert rolling to the right, looking to the right, stops has to reverse course, throws.

00:00:06
Speaker 2: To the ends up caught touchdown Chargers Trey Harris. How about reward the young man who blocks his tail off on every rundown with his first touchdown at his career. Hit that ball to the sideline, A beautiful play by Herbert, abates the rush, climbs the pocket and throws a strike.

00:00:29
Speaker 3: Oh, Trey Harris, the rookie. Great moment for the rookie in a night full of great moments for a lot of Chargers. That Tray Harris. As Jordan rodrig said, he's got some stuff to him. So does Matt money Smith on KFI sodas justin Herbert in this entire Chargers team on a Thursday night football game where they destroy the Minnesota Vikings thirty seven to ten, Shookie. This was a game of two teams who came in not feeling great, fan base is very anxious, and one left looking like a team that I think eventually we will see in the playoffs. I know that's projecting far ahead, and another team that has a lot of problems. Let's start with the positive. What a night for Herbo Nation. Just a great night to watch the quarterback at his best.

00:01:20
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, It's like I posted on social media, he's on another planet. It was right after that touchdown pass that we just played as the highlight there, because again another example of how prime vision is the best played, the best way to watch football. When you watch it from that angle, you're like, wow, that's an incredible play because of the ground that he gains a step up and make that throw on the run. It was just a prime example of a great night where in which he looked completely in control, felt very comfortable, and was willing to improvise, to make plays to use his arm.

00:01:50
Speaker 3: But really, I.

00:01:51
Speaker 4: Got to give all the credit in the world Greg to four things with this Charters team that might sound crazy, but they all go in order. Number One, they got Jill at back, which was huge for their protection and their run game. Number Two, they got creative with their run blocking, and they committed to what Greg Roman had done best in the past, which is loading up on the big uglies, the bigger guys in the twenty two personnel and relying on that to clear paths and also do it in a variety of different fashions, Matt Locke in motion, the fullback, you know, offset I all sorts of different things they were willing to get creative. Number three, the running game flourishing as a result, Kamani Vidal having a great day, and then fourth and most importantly, all of that coming together to allow Justin Herbert to do everything that he does well, which is workout of play, action, work on the run, use that cannon for an arm fine guys all over the field outside early middle of the field, after that, going down the field for a touchdown, drive back outside later. Everything was working and it all started with the return of Joe ol That's it.

00:02:54
Speaker 3: We're done. It's been a great week. On NFL Daily, Shookie wrapped it up up so succinctly. I'm serious. I mean, this was not a game where you could say, well, if this happened or that happened, you mentioned the running game. They finished with four hundred and nineteen yards overall, two hundred and seven on the ground, and then they hold the Vikings to thirty four yards on the ground. It's just been the biggest weakness of this team, and it's been going back for a long time before Harbaugh was there. Since Harbor has been there, the running game has just not been consistent enough. And tonight they pushed the Vikings around. And last year the run defense was more than good enough, but the last month they have been among, if not the worst run defenses in the league. And until late in this game, in a garbage time drive, they had actually held the Vikings to a zero I said, zero point zero percent design success rate. So the return of Aaron Jones does not help out at all. But I want to go back to something you said. You mentioned twenty two personnel for the listeners out there, what does that mean? And what did you see when you saw that personnel?

00:04:14
Speaker 4: Two tight ends, two backs. You're going heavy. You're absolutely stating that you want to run the football and you want to win up front. But the difference is, and Sam Schwartstein from Prime Vision did a great job with this and explaining it. They weren't your typical twenty two. It wasn't you know, I don't know Cole Comet and Colston loved it Loveland or you know, David Ajoku and Harold Fannin. These are guys who are three hundred plus pounds, one of them being played at Tighten another one at fullback, and Scott Matt Locke. They are absolutely coming out there and say we're going to run football. We're gonna run it down your throats, we're gonna block it up well. And they did that repeatedly with the heavier personnel, which again that balanced out the offense. I think at one point early in the fourth quarter, Sam came back on he made another note which I thought was extremely revelatory for how this game had unfolded. Two thirds of the char Ar's offensive plays had come out of run action, whether it was handoffs or it was play action, and it all started with them being able to establish the game on the ground early and keeping the Vikings defense honest because they tried.

00:05:10
Speaker 3: Flores tried.

00:05:11
Speaker 4: He brought blitzes early. The pick six that wasn't was the product of a blitz off the edge where Herbert tried to get the ball out hot and quick, but it didn't work. Ultimately, because they committed the Chargers did to running the football and winning the battle of bulk up front.

00:05:26
Speaker 3: It is a great point about the blitzes. They blitzed basically every snap on that first drive. And we'll get into the near pick six, but Herbert just showed that he was going to be able to solve it after that play, and he got hit four or five times on that first drive, and he just made it happen anyways. And at that point it was kind of like, Okay, we can't beat you that way? Can we just beat you straight up? And I think the answer for this pretty disappointing Vikings defense this year was no, they just don't have enough of a pass rush. I misspoke the other day when I mentioned Van Ginkel. He hasn't been around since Week three. Dallas Turner had a penalty tonight. He's made no impact this year. It's really Jonathan Gadnard and that's about it, because they're not getting enough out of Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen. And what a great thing for Chargers fans to hear that, what like the other team just didn't have like a pressure rate through the absolute roof and actually it was thirty eight percent tonight. But part of that is Herbert, you know, holding the ball a little longer to make something happen. And part of that is for Herbert that's nothing and he ends up scrambling on a lot of those plays. I want to go back to what you said. There was a play early where it appeared that Herbert on the very first drive through a pick six. Only two plays later he hits a third and thirteen to Keenan Allen to keep that drive alive, and I thought that was such a fitting sequence. The Vikings have been on the bad end of a couple overturned passes lately, and then when they get some bad luck like they can't recover from that, so they give up the third and thirteen to Keenan Allen, who's just been awesome this season, awesome the last couple weeks. Is gonna be the all time leading receiver in Chargers history, passing Antonio Gates at some point if he can just stay healthy. And then later in that drive, it's a third and eight in the red zone again, third line. When you think the Vikings are going to finally get home, and they do not, Herbro makes them.

00:07:36
Speaker 1: Pay proper to throw looking left now middle and pod touchdown. Chargers ah Ronde Gadsden got his first touchdown last week, does not take long to get his second. If you thought it was a fluke, think again.

00:07:54
Speaker 3: He dominated the first half of this game. Aronde Gadsden. This is real. Five catches, seventy seven yards and a touchdown. I'm pretty sure that was all in the first half took. I don't know if he had a second half catch because Herbert didn't have to throw it. What have you seen? What do you like watching gads did out there?

00:08:11
Speaker 4: It was him and Lad McCaughey each had matching stat lines with five catches for seventy seven yards by halftime. What have I seen from him? He's an athletic tight end, he's the son of another former NFL player, and he's a guy who has steadily found a role in this offense. It really showed up as far back as a month ago. He had a breakout game last week against the Colts in a loss with seven catches for one sixty four. But what I saw in that sequence there when you mentioned Keenan Allen and Aronde gads and who I think is going to continue to be a part of their offense. So fantasy managers go pick him up if he's available, because Herbert obviously loves throwing the football. Is as soon as he throws the near pick six to the outside on a play that Herbert had to get the ball out because there was pressure in his face and he leaves it inside and it gets caught overturned. They get a second chance, they immediately say we're gonna stop going outside the numbers. We're just gonna feast in the middle the field. And it's all because of Herbert being able to buy time. Now on that touchdown pass, that's a simple read. And it's been a rough five days for Josh mcteleison coverage, but all it is is dropping back, winning the inside leverage. He wins it, Herbert fires it in there dot for a touchdown. Gazon's gonna catch it. He's got pretty reliable hands for the most part. But it's the combination of the two where they can just continually feast on the area in between the hashes. And it all comes back to Herbert being able to buy time, step up pocket, keep his eyes downfield to use that arm, find guys open, hit them accurately, and keep the chains moving. And I feel like we've been robbed of herbert greatness over the last three to four weeks because they haven't had their offensive line, they haven't had their top two running backs. And all it took was to get one guy back, and suddenly they had that opportunity again, and it was such a beautiful thing to watch.

00:09:44
Speaker 3: It really was, and yet they still had a bunch of injuries tonight. You mentioned All coming back. That was the key I've been saying for the last month and a half. Man. Every win they can get without All, it's so big. It's almost it's almost like the Bengals trying to get as many wins as possible before Burrow comes back, because it's not to that level. But we knew All it was going to be back, and he ends up coming back a little sooner than first expected, and it was huge. I think it was even bigger. It's a tough call, but might be even bigger in the running game than he was in the In the passing game. You saw him blowing open a hole for Vodell on the early touchdown run that made it fourteen nothing where he just you know, pushes one of the defensive tackles for the Vikings back into the end zone. He's awesome. He makes a big deal, and yet they still had a bunch of injuries tonight. Just to lift him up, lift him up. Makai Beckton left with a knee injury early. That's not great. Irwin James left with an injury early. Now, he was talking and laughing on the bench in the second half, even though he's in a sweatshirt. I'd take that as a relatively good sign, but obviously not good that. You know, he didn't play the rest of the game. Tony Jefferson, his backup was out tarheb still the cornerback left. So these Thursday night games are brutal. The Vikings had a bunch of injuries as well. I just think Gatston is a really smooth mover with and without the ball. He's only two hundred and fifty pounds. You know, he's not going to be brock Bowers, but that's the mold of tight end that he is, and he is getting a ton of snaps, and even if he's not like a monster blocker, it just it gives you enough formational diversity when you have Keenan Allen out there, you have Trey Harris out there. Poor Quintin Johnston was a no show tonight, but man, they just have a ton of options. It was such a blowout. Are you surprised Shook that it was that one sided and that, for instance, the EPA per play for the Chargers in the first half of this game was the highest of any offense in any game all season. What happened to the Vikings defense? We love because there's a lot of injuries. We'll get to him. On the offensive side, they're relatively healthy. They got Blake Cashman back, like they're relatively healthy on defense.

00:12:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was surprised because I thought the Vikings would cause more problems for the Chargers offense because we've seen nothing but problems for them since they lost Joel. But they got him back, which made a big difference. And I was also surprised by not the lack of fight, but just it felt like the Vikings were always really close, and either they'd make a mistake, or they'd commit a penalty, or something would happen that would open the door for the Chargers to, you know, continue to move the football down the field, and it just became so lopsided. I wasn't surprised by their offensive performance. We know what Carson Wentz is, which who, by the way, was playing through a very obvious injury and I hope that he doesn't have to continue to play with that injury. It was it was more the defense. It was more the defense and Vikings fans aren't surprised though, and I know they're not, and I know they'll get in the comments and say that because they've seen this happen for weeks. So guess what, I guess I'm in your company now. I just thought in this matchup, you might have, you know, put up a better fight against the Chargers' offense that has definitely had a bumpy road the last few weeks.

00:12:53
Speaker 3: It's been a brutal couple of months for for Quasia Adolphomna. Not just that, Justin Jejfferson confused him by pretending to be a team photographer in a show that my ten year old son loves, and I think that's probably the target audience. I don't know how many different shows Eli Manning can have where people just stress up. I'm just gonna keep hitting this point and it's just like an insane thing. He signs Jonathan Allen Javon Hargrave in the offseason to beef up their defensive line just hasn't worked. They trade a number of picks to move up for Dallas Turner. Last year, this was supposed to be his breakout year and since they haven't had Van Ginkel, they needed him to step up. That hasn't happened. On the offensive line. You know, they signed the two Colts offensive lineman Will Frieses out there tonight, and he hasn't really been great this year. And Ryan Kelly's you know, has concussion problems or has an injury problem again, and that that's something that carried over from you know, the Colts last year. And then they've also just had bad luck, not just in terms of their acquisitions. It was a shocker. Brian O'Neal, the right tackle, didn't play tonight, right, he was questionable on the injury report, but he played every stat last week and he must have gutted through it because he was not available on the quick turnaround to play. So that's the right tackle. And then their left tackle, Christian Darrisaw apparently was a game time decision worked out to prove that he could play before the game and only lasted nine snaps. If you had told me, and we knew going into it that they weren't going to have their two starting tackles, it would have been more obvious that the Chargers were real favorites in this game, and that it was going to be very difficult for their offense to get anything done, and that's what happened. They made the Chargers pass rush look pretty good today.

00:14:45
Speaker 4: Yeah they did. And I did get a bit of a moment of bummer when I watched Adafeoway get that sack on Carson Wentz because he kind of delays a stunt and then twists back around toward the guard and they pick up the stunt well on the inside it center and guard because the de tackle kind of crashes inside and then Will Fryes is late to pick it up and Oa goes right around him and gets in there for the stack. And I'm just like ah ah, like this this killing me, man, Like why you're supposed to better than this? This is when they went and signed you. But again, you're right, like I wouldn't sound the alarms on the Vikings necessarily because they are missing so many guys. Oh, by the way, their quarterback, like their quarterback hasn't played in a long time, and they seem to be playing it extremely cautiously. But I do. I had this thought in the third quarter tonight where I'm like, man, you know, the Vikings, they're They're one last minute drive from of Carson Wentz leading them over the Browns from being two and five right now, which would be real concerning, right.

00:15:43
Speaker 3: I remember saying that day when we did the show, and you know, I was at that game thinking like this felt close to not a seving, season saving win. But if you look at their schedule, man, they really needed to get this one while they could. And it's come home to roost. They lose to the Eagles after they come home. They lose this game and they're not remotely competitive, and now the bad news starts. FDN Fantasy aka Aaron Shots and his Numbers has them as the toughest remaining schedule in the entire NFL. You know, they they come back, they have Detroit, they have five division games left, uh, you know, including the Packers game is in the next few games. They have the Ravens a couple other tough out of division games, and it's gonna be a really difficult path back to the playoffs. And there is a path to this team bottoming. Now, I'm not saying that's gonna happen. If you can get healthy, you get your your tackles. JJ McCarthy gives you something I don't think this season is over, but I do think it is more likely than not they finished with a losing record this season, certainly, and there is a more likely chance I think they end up with like a top eight to ten pick. Then they do make the playoffs, and that is a It's a big come down and it's really going to be up to McCarthy of whether this season ends up feeling like a success. And they've treated him very carefully and now it's going to be time to play. They've kind of telegraphed that they've been planning all along for him to return next week. I don't think it was exactly a soft benching, but if he was medically clear to be the emergency quarterback in theory, he could have been playing here. And I think they just wanted to get more time with him on the practice field and hope they could get a win along the way these last two weeks, and it just didn't happen. Carson Wentz wasn't great, But I don't know what you were expecting, you know what I mean, considering the situation.

00:17:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, once the situation worse than once they lost Darrisaw, I was like, Oh, this is gonna be bad. Now Wentz to his credit, through a really beautiful touchdown pass in the back of the end zone, and he made a few nice throws like that. He did start to get into a bit of a rhythm with Justin Jefferson, but they had a lot of missed opportunities. Will rekerd missing that field goal at the end of the half by kicking part of the ground and it comes up short of a fifty three yarder, which was eye opening to most everybody because he's got the leg for much more than that. It was just indicative of the small mistakes and the small misses that they had all night. And and by the fourth quarter, you knew Wentz was playing very hurt and he's the type of guy that he's going to go.

00:18:25
Speaker 3: I was like, does does Kevin O'Connell not like Carson Wentz? Like I thought he'd like Carson Wentz. But I started to think, like, is he just out there like as like a human shield taking bullets? That's what he was doing? He doesn't, Yeah, that's put in Max Prosmer.

00:18:39
Speaker 4: Yeah. They were like, all right, short week, we'll buy a little bit more time for jaj to get right right like and for those who are watching on YouTube, You'll see Wentz, you know, gets a pass deflected, he knocks it down, he starts to grab his shoulder. I don't know what the injury is specifically, but I know that brace and I know that hold, and that is not a good feeling from my own experience. So he credit to him for gutting it out. But it's it's it's tough for them when you look at their season outlook because they've played one division game so far and they're in one of the toughest divisions in the NFL, with the rest of their schedule in the division awaiting them. By the way, next week they play the Lions in Detroit. It's gonna be a really rough road, and that's gonna be a tough situation to throw McCarthy back into it, because he's a de facto rookie at this point. Like he didn't play last year, he's only gotten a couple games worth of experience this season. It's gonna be really tough for them. It's definitely, it's not impossible, but they got to get healthy. They already had their bye week in Week six, and the road is not going to get any easier by any stretch of the imagination going forward, So they're gonna need to turn around. They're gonna need one pretty quickly.

00:19:36
Speaker 3: They need Florist to cook up some magic because this defense is average this season at best. If you took out the numbers of one of the most dominant defensive performances of the year against the Bengals, they really are a below average yep, defense, they just they have the pieces and I thought the continuity potentially to be special this year. But defense and County on defense year after year is tricky. Sometimes opponents catch up a little bit to your schemes, and in Flores has been creative, but they haven't had enough one on one winners. You know who had some one on one winners tonight? The Chargers in their defense and had been killing Jesse Minter on the podcast the last month, So let's get a little up. Not only did they stop the run very well tonight, but some surprising names got some production. Yeah, let's have a rare sack call on the TNF.

00:20:33
Speaker 1: Recap for two seconds, he takes the shotgun, snaps head, drop sack.

00:20:41
Speaker 4: Well to keep the theme going.

00:20:43
Speaker 1: Shoot your fight or is it a boy bee? Is it tu?

00:20:45
Speaker 2: Lee?

00:20:46
Speaker 1: Is it O way, Whatever it is, it's a loss of aid.

00:20:49
Speaker 4: I think it was a.

00:20:49
Speaker 3: Boy be It was a boy beee who's uh, you know, making a name for himself, justin a boy bee with a couple of sacks tonight. Has had some pressures lately. They need some people to step up. I'm not going to say their defensive line problems are fixed, but they added a body in Oway who's solid at least, and they had five players tonight with multiple pressures and they just are getting back to respectable. It was as good a matchup as you're going to get against these Vikings backups. So I'm not gonna say that they've been crowned, but it was complimentary football. They need to be an offense first team, so the Vikings need to be defense first. The Chargers need to be offense first, and their offense protected their defense tonight. I have a wild stat for you, no great call there by Matt Muney Smith. At one point tonight, the Chargers had twenty one first downs. Oh yes, and the Vikings had twenty four offensive plays yep, cause they came out of halftime after completely dominating the first half. It was crazy numbers and then they came out a halftime and ran the ball down the Vikings throats. They ended up settling for a field goal, but at that point like they just killed more time, put more points on the on the and it was one of the more one sided games of the entire season. To shout out, shout out to the defensive line, to everyone, to complimentary football.

00:22:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, time of possession difference was basically two to one, thirty nine zero four to twenty fifty six. It felt kind of like that Chiefs Raiders game on Sunday in which the Raiders only had thirty offensive plays at least until garbage time. Yeah, it's a tough man. I it's what a turn, What a turn for the Chargers. Like last week, you get dominated at home by the Colts, who are a well oiled offensive machine, and then you do the same thing to the Vikings, which just underscores what I've said all along. We don't know what's coming in the NFL, and that's why it's so fun to watch.

00:22:39
Speaker 3: Well, and that schedule explains so much. I really do believe like the Chargers could have come in and the Colts could have come in again this week. I think something similar would happen. They're just the Chargers defense is not in that class. No, you know what, you get a little healthy and you get some help from your offense and you can outclass this Vikings offense and suddenly, look, I don't think they're one of the best teams in the AFC, but they're five and three. They're three to zero in the division. They have the Titans next, they have then the Steelers and at Jacksonville before they're by, and then the Raiders. And like you, to me, you look at that schedule, you're five and three. Now, if they're anything less than eight and four after that stretch, I would think it'd be a disappointment. And you have your buy in there to get a little healthier too. So they're in a good position. And I say that because to me, Titans Raiders those should be two automatic wins, and then you split the others in which you might even be favored. And we'll see. It's a long season. They're figuring it out, but they've maybe steadied the ship. Here two more quick points before we go. Number one, I like the Philip Rivers, even the Rodney Harrison era charges uniforms. Tonight, what do you think.

00:23:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought that the Chargers are one of those unique franchises that they want to be powder blue and gold, but they also don't want to let go of their other shades of blue, like they had that royal blue alternate before when color rush was first a thing.

00:24:11
Speaker 3: Then they wear they don't wear shirts anyway.

00:24:14
Speaker 4: I liked the banana shirts. Those are good too. I'm that Oh yeah, I mean I played when I played football as kid, we had all yellow uniforms and I love those two. But these this was tasteful. This is a good way to modernize what they had. Then they even went with the same font and art in the end zone that they used to have back at Qualcomm. Yes, Jack Robbie you know back in the day U or Jack Murphy excuse me stadium, and uh it was really it was a great touch. I really liked it.

00:24:39
Speaker 3: Great call in terms of the end zone. I love those teams. Harrison, whom I swear I'm not just seeing this as a Patriots omer. I do think is one of the more underrated players and should be a more serious Hall of Fame consideration. But those teams with him and Saw and Quentin Jammer.

00:25:00
Speaker 4: You said it because if you didn't say it, I was gonna say.

00:25:02
Speaker 3: It fun fun defenses and I love seeing that tonight. And then I hate talking about the refs, but that overturn pick six awful? What are we doing? The whole thing I hate, And I thought the Hockinson overturned last week on the Vikings was also brutal. The whole thing that I think we've gotten away from is it's supposed to be clear and obvious if you're going to overturn it. Neither of those plays were clear and obvious. The only reason you even see the ball like moving a little bit is because you're slowing it down so much. But we live in a world where where no one's going in that slow motion. So if it's just moving that little bit while you're actually moving, it's it is a catch, and it's definitely not clear and obvious. Both of those, especially the pick six.

00:25:47
Speaker 4: I thought there was some slight room for them to maybe think about it, but I thought it was pretty firm that it was a pick six, which, by the way, talk about a way a play can change the tone of a game early on, you get that second chance to go down there and score. It was it was terrible. I posted on social we had a emilia. I was like, that's a terrible review because we don't need to overlegislate things like that. We're already obsessed with finishing, completing the process of the catch. That's a great play. There's no clear evidence that it wasn't that he'd used the ground to aid him in catching that. I was stunned. Let's stop being so particular about these things.

00:26:17
Speaker 3: Let's just let's not be looking for reasons every time to overturn it. N you got to look for something that's just so clear and obvious, going to keep using those words, and it just it just wasn't that, you know, and I know that it would have been a different game. I choose to believe in a world where those Chargers fans who were allowed tonight by the way, I know there were a lot of Vikings fans there, and there were and whatnot, but it was rocking. The Chargers fans love it like this team. I choose to believe in a world where if they were this dominant, otherwise they would have found their way to win. It might have been more entertaining for us along the way, a little more drama, but that you know not. Every Thursday Night game can beautiful. Every Nick Shook performance can beautiful. Though, we will be talking to you on Sunday night. Take some time off, hang out with the family. I don't know if you're working the next couple of days.

00:27:08
Speaker 4: Gussie, Gussie, the Nise nephew. This weekend, why not.

00:27:12
Speaker 3: We will be back in the feed. Yes, the pic show is already up if you haven't noticed. So the next time this feed will be active will be Sunday night. Me Shookie, Patrick, Jordan, all your favorites. Good Sunday Slate. We will see you for the Week eight recap.