#314 - Christmas Movies: The Worst Gun Myths on Screen

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Hi there and welcome to this

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episode of The Guns Podcast,
U.S., brought to you by guns magazine.

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I'm your host, Brant Wheat,
and I'd like to thank you

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for joining us here on one of the world's
biggest gun talk programs.

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As we chat and discuss and argue
about the stuff that makes the world

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of shooting so much fun.

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Well, normally I've got my official,
unofficial official co-host

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here, Roy Huntington.

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And today Roy is on the road.

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He's out on the highways of America.

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He's supposed to join me back next week.

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But today you got just me.

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Well, today we're going to discuss
the worst gun mess in Christmas movies

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that have ever been committed to film
or now, digital, of course.

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It's a topic
that obviously is very seasonal,

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and we like watching Christmas movies
this time of year.

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And unfortunately,
a lot of them have gunplay.

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That is, again,
some of the most atrocious gun handling

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and weirdest firearms
that have ever appeared on the screens.

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So anyway, we're going to talk
about these Christmas movies

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and how guns play a role
and some of the awful gun myths.

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Gun usage, gun portrayals.

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And, we're going to start

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with what I think is everyone's
favorite Christmas movie, Die Hard.

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Now, the funny
thing is, if you look across the internet,

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there's this continual argument
of whether it's a Christmas movie or not.

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I think everybody's pretty
well decided it's a Christmas movie.

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It's not necessarily one
you want to watch with your kids,

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but it's it's a Christmas movie.

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And I would say,
at least in the gun world,

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I think virtually everybody would agree,
whether they like the movie or not.

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It's it's a gun movie.

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But, anyway, there is whole websites

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devoted to the movie and the gun
handling in the movie and it's series.

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One of the first things, if you remember,
it was one of the first movies

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that really showed MTV fives
before that, M16 showed up a lot.

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But, at the time frame of the movie,

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you started
seeing guys use MP5, the bad guys.

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Anyway.

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And, 
that was kind of noteworthy at the time.

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And people were suddenly like,
then that's that gun that the,

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the SAS used to take down
the Iranian embassy, during the siege.

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So that's that's pretty cool.

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And it's interesting they chose
those guns, to be with the terrorists.

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The interesting thing to note is
I think all of those MP5,

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if they weren't rubber replicas,
they were actually chopped down HK 94.

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So I don't know why.

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I guess they couldn't
get movie fives or something,

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but many of them in close up

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scenes, folks have discovered
that those are actually chop 90 fours.

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So, going back to that thing I mentioned
about the rubber propeller replicas,

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a lot of folks don't realize that
that is kind of the go to in most movies.

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They make, very accurate rubber,

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or polymer guns that those are

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especially used when there's close ups,
people fighting with guns.

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Because obviously you get hit upside
the head with a gun, a real gun.

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It's going to draw blood for real.

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And, with the, rubber guns,
the replica guns, they can drop them,

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they can throw them, they can hit people
with them, and it's all fine.

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And obviously there's no danger
of shooting your cinematographer

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during practice. I'm just saying.

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So, if you go frame

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by frame, which gun geeks will do?

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There's a lot of scenes in there where
you can see the muzzles actually plug.

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They'll be recessed,
but you get any past that,

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and there's a little bit of, 
light in there,

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and you'll suddenly realize
there is no bore there.

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And, well, that's one of those rubber
replicas and Hollywood prop companies.

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And there's only a couple that handle,
firearms and, a couple of big ones.

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And I know,
few people associated with that,

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but one of their main tools
is these, replica, rubber guns.

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So anyway, getting back to just the guns
themselves.

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Diehard. Not too bad.

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They're using mostly stock guns, except
those MP5, but, they had they also,

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that was one of the first times
on screen you saw Steyr Aug

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and,

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there's been interviews
with, I believe, the weapons

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designer on the film that said, that
was, again, kind of a unique gun

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at that point and not really well known.

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And they wanted to arm the one of the
villains with that, pretty noteworthy gun.

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I do remember watching it the first time
saying, that's that's kind of a cool one.

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So, yeah, that's one of the,

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and still is one of the few films
where you'll see a style.

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A couple other noteworthy things
is, most of the M16.

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You'll see.

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I think all of the M16s are actually

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MGC, M16 replicas.

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And what that is model
Gun Corporation out of Japan.

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Those were famous guns.

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I don't believe they make them anymore,
but they were very lifelike replicas.

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And they were used extensively
in Hollywood for filming,

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because obviously,
I believe they fired a,

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a plastic projectile,

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and the cartridge casing would even eject.

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So those were used extensively in films.

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The way you can tell that is
if you look at a close up of the film,

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still frame it.

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The forward

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assist is actually not a forward assist
and doesn't have the little paddle on it.

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What it has, it's it goes straight back
and it's got an Allen screw.

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And that was how you took
those guns down and serviced them.

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So if you see an M16 on the screen,
especially like in Die

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Hard, that's got kind of a weird forward
assist me.

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It's funny because you'll look at it
and say something's wrong with that,

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but I can't quite put my finger on it.

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Well, it's because it's not angled out.

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It's actually parallel to the center
line of the bore.

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And if you get behind it, if you can see,
you'll see that

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it's actually an Allen screw in there.

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So interesting. Point there.

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But all those M16s I believe in that movie
were those MGC, replicas.

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Another thing that,

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I like.

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And again, this is one of those things
that it's just entertainment

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and I shouldn't get upset by it,
but it makes me crazy.

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They they toss a hockey
puck size flashbang.

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Well,
if you've ever seen a flash bang, there's

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none of them that look like a hockey puck.

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None of them are that small.

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Well, I take that back there.

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I believe there's some electronic ones,
and they're not nearly

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as useful as a pyrotechnic flash bang.

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But anyway, it doesn't exist.

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It's just one of those Hollywood
inventions.

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I don't know how they did it.

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I'm sure they probably threw a hockey
puck out there, and then,

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stopped the film and then inserted a,
probably a live explosive of some kind.

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You know, reading on the internet
basically, Die Hard gets a pass because

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it's fun and it's a master class,
and it looks right to non gun people.

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So to gun folks, you'll see a lot of
things that just don't make sense.

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You'll see bad gun handling.

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You'll see all the stuff we're used to.

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But you know it is what it is.

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But at least you can be aware
of some of those things.

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You can be looking at them.

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And like I said,
you can impress your friends with.

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Well,
that's a, a Japanese MG replica M16.

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Or probably more importantly,
if you're if you do watch it with your

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teens or whatever

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you can say that's not really safe,
that's not really how you do it.

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And this is entertainment.

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Don't don't mistake
that for the real world.

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So the, the next one,

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we're going to look at the next
film is a favorite.

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And this is certainly a family film.

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It's a Christmas story.

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And, of

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course, you all know the gun
that's involved there.

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It's a daisy.

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Red Ryder carbine action, 200 shot
range model air rifle with compass.

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And this thing that tells time.

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Well, 
for those that are familiar with Daisy,

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they did build the one for the
the use on the screen.

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But that gun didn't
actually exist at that time.

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There was no model
that had a compass in the stock

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and why they needed a sundial essentially.

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Often the stock doesn't
make a lot of sense, but that just was

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that Hollywood gussying up making the gun
more interesting than what it is.

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But I'll tell you the thing that that kind
of drives me crazy about this movie

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is that as a family movie, really
the unspoken value

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behind Ralphie's quest to get the baby gun
and constantly being told

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you're going to shoot the eye out,

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you're going to put somebody eye out,
is it really is, I think, intentionally

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trying to teach folks
that guns of any kind are dangerous.

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You know, it's kind of the unspoken value
of that, that they're really dangerous.

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And, you know, Ralphie's going to hurt
somebody and it's a fun movie.

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It's great.

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But when you're watching the show
with your kids or your grandkids,

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make sure that they understand
that guns are safe, guns are fun.

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They're unsafe if you misuse them
like you see on the screen a lot.

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But it's just a movie.
It's just entertainment.

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And that, guns are perfectly okay
to use and use responsibly.

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Anyway.

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Basically a movie that romanticizes

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ignorance about guns and highlights adults
panicking about guns.

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It's a good thing to talk with

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your kids and grandkids
that it's not really like that.

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So the movie next that, inspired
this episode

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is, of course, Home Alone, and it's,
again, one of my favorites.

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And it's getting a little dated,
I've noticed.

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Or maybe I've watched it too many times,
but there's a couple of things in here

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that are interesting
from a shooting point of view.

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And the first of them is, of course, where

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Kevin McCallister, the hero in the movie,

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the family leaves him home alone
and he defeats two burglars.

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One of the ways he does that,
especially initially, is he, records

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the audio from a old movie, 
called angels With Filthy Souls,

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and there's a scene where the

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bad guy blasts one of the other gangsters
with a colt 1921.

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Thompson.

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And, Kevin records that on his little

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handheld recorder and then scares away
the bad guys by playing that back.

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A couple of problems with that.

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And this is my practical side
saying that, a handheld tape

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recorder of a television speaker playing, 
a black and white movie

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is not gonna sound like a 1921 Thompson
submachine gun.

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So that part's a little hard
or farfetched,

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and I have trouble getting past it.

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So, anyway, the B. B.

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gun, I wanted to bring that up.

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It's a I believe it's just a Red rider.

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But there's a scene in there where he
he gets the gun from his brother's, room,

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and he has some little,
you know, climactic moment where he says

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it's up to me to defend my house,
and he cocks the B.B. gun.

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Well,
the problem is it's he's using the four

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as a pump, and,
it looks again like a red rider.

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There's no such thing.

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And I believe that was how they made
the prop.

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They took the lever,
the cocking lever off of it and just put

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a, wood block for the four end
and made it, into a a pump action.

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I guess that was necessary,
for the dramatic effect at that moment,

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because if you had a red rider,
you remember, especially as a kid,

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sometimes you had to go to some pretty
extreme lengths to get that thing cocked

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because of a pretty stout string
or spring in there.

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So I'm assuming they,
probably realized that and felt

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like just, making a flick of the wrist
would probably be better.

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And then adding the sound effect of, 
a pump shotgun.

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But, it was funny. That inspired,

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a conversation with a friend

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of mine today, and I said, yeah,
it's like one of those CO2.

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And he said, I think it was, 670 or 770.

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Crossman

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I always wanted one. I never had one.

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I had the Daisy 880,

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if you remember, had the big, long, 
cocking lever up front.

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It was a pump up.

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And, of course,
we tried to pump it up to 150, strokes.

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Rose must do ten of them.

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And, it had some kind of pressure relief,
which as I got older,

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I tried to do surgery and figure out
how to remove that so we could pump it up

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to 40 or 50,000 p.s.i and hopefully,
hunt elk with that 17 caliber B.B..

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But, my buddy had the Crossman model,
and he loved

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he said they did the same thing.

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They pumped it up

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and tried to see if they could,
you know, make it shoot like a 375 and H.

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And of course it wouldn't.

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But, that was a fun conversation
we had today.

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But yeah, the, the,
air rifle in the movie, not so much.

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It is a good teaching moment
with some of these movies

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that, you don't have to make
a huge deal out of it, but

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just maybe counteract
that brainwashing that Hollywood is

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so notoriously noted for now, this movie,
I will admit, I don't know it.

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I've never seen it.

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It's a 2022 movie called Violent Night,

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a play on Silent Night.

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And the only reason I knew about this,
because a buddy of mine told me about it,

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and it's basically
Santa Claus versus the mercenaries and,

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I'm going to have to watch it this season,
not with little ones gathered around.

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It's typical over-the-top comedy.

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but I'm going to have to watch it.

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Apparently it's not the greatest movie,
but if you ever wanted to see Santa

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go full, Delta Force on bad guys
and that that's your movie.

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So this next one is my absolute
favorite holiday movie, bar none.

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And it's not super well known,
but it's Scrooged with Bill Murray,

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and I forget what the date is on it,
but the basic plot is Bill Murray's

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the head of the fictional IBC network,
and he gets into an argument

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with his folks,
his people, about their upcoming

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Christmas shows,
and they did the typical Christmas thing.

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And he wants really over-the-top.

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Well, in the course of all this,
it turns into a Dickens Christmas Carol.

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He's visited by the ghosts of

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of Christmas Past and Future,
and he changes his ways.

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And, you know,
there's the big, the big happy ending.

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So it's a it's a fun movie.

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But what's really fun is the,

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the team puts up these promos

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for their upcoming holiday movies,
and he hates them

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because they're happiness
and light and typical TV fare.

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So he has had his team put together

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what he wants to see, and it's a special.

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The first of all, he's talking
about how terrible life is

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and one of them is
somebody pulls up in a car next

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to somebody else
and uses a double barrel shotgun on him.

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Doesn't show what happens, but
it's very clear that's what's going on.

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And then they go to.

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But you can get away from that
by watching The Night the Reindeer died.

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the plot

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of A Violent Night with Santa
Claus is attacked by, by bad guys,

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and he's saved by Lee majors, the $6

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Million Man.

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And, interesting side note
if you watch that,

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when Lee majors comes in and starts
gunning down the bad guys and all that

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he's carrying
what is actually a GE XM 134 mini gun,

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and it is the same minigun
that was used in the predator

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movies, the exact same prop
that was used in the predator movies.

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Apparently they got a, pump shotgun
mounted underneath it for absolutely no

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good reason, but it's big and bulky,
and they've got a handle on the back

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and it makes no sense whatsoever,
but it looks pretty cool.

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So and there's also,
of course, the scene later on where

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one of the folks that he fired, a guy
Elliot Loudermilk,

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who's portrayed by Bobcat Goldthwait,
Goldthwait

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comes back intoxicated
with a double barreled shotgun and,

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basically takes Frank hostage,
which causes the big final scene. But,

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he shoots things up, and it's kind of
that idea that,

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you know, people that only use shotguns
are crazy redneck, drunken buffoons.

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And it's it's kind of that,
you know, Hollywood lesson of guns.

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They aren't a good thing. So

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it's a

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a fun movie, aside from the gun stuff.

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And there's a scene in there
where, it's a steel frame

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that you'll see quite a bit
on the internet of Lee majors with the,

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the minigun and, 
Santa Claus got an AR 15.

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I don't know if it's an MGC M16 replica.

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It probably is.

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00:17:50,169 --> 00:17:54,373
But, that's kind of a fun, fun scene,
Lee Majors and Santa Claus

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ready to chew bubble gum and kick butt,
and they're all out of bubble gum.

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So that was our
our final movie in the series.

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Any of them
I can vouch for other than Violent Night?

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And who knows, I may like it,
but I'll have to check that out.

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But, anyway, again,
some of the interesting gun trivia,

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some of the bad gun handling,
the weird guns, and that whole point of

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beware

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Hollywood is a propaganda machine,
and you can use those moments

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as positive learning toward firearms,
towards young, impressionable gun

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00:18:26,171 --> 00:18:29,641
folks, young, impressionable minds
is what I was trying to say,

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because, the entertainment industry
is certainly trying otherwise.

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So anyway,
let's talk about kind of our takeaways.

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First of all, we say this a lot.

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Movies are not training films,
and we know that.

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But every single instruction
instructor in the world will tell you

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00:18:47,392 --> 00:18:51,697
they've had countless people
that, really bring stuff

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00:18:51,697 --> 00:18:56,235
from television and movies
and use it as a technique on the range.

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And it's, it's it is so pervasive
that sometimes it's hard to break free

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00:19:01,073 --> 00:19:01,940
from that.

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00:19:01,940 --> 00:19:06,612
It's been pointed out that the repetition
you see from entertainment,

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00:19:06,612 --> 00:19:10,916
it makes that familiarity,
because you've seen it so many times,

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00:19:10,916 --> 00:19:15,354
you've seen so many people
with fingers on triggers and, and lots of,

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00:19:15,354 --> 00:19:18,357
the there's a whole
that's a whole episode right there.

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But the bottom line is,

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I want to point out that

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we may not think
that we're teaching ourselves, but we are.

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00:19:28,567 --> 00:19:31,570
And again,
if we're knowledgeable gun folks,

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00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:34,573
that's a good moment to help,

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00:19:35,073 --> 00:19:38,177
less knowledgeable folks understand that
that's not good.

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00:19:38,177 --> 00:19:39,378
That's unsafe.

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00:19:39,378 --> 00:19:40,913
You'd never do that.

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00:19:40,913 --> 00:19:43,682
Again, not taking away
from the entertainment value,

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00:19:43,682 --> 00:19:46,418
but use those as teaching moments and,

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00:19:46,418 --> 00:19:49,621
certainly don't don't try anything
you see at home.

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00:19:50,322 --> 00:19:53,058
Because, mostly it's not going to work.

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00:19:53,058 --> 00:19:56,461
So anyway, to end on a reasonable non

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preachy note and enjoy the movies, laugh
at the nonsense.

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00:20:00,365 --> 00:20:03,101
But I hope you understand
reality's different and help

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00:20:03,101 --> 00:20:06,104
others understand
that the reality is different.

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00:20:06,104 --> 00:20:10,609
And as I've often heard it put, don't
let Hollywood be your firearms instructor.

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So anyway, I hope you enjoyed this.

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I made it through.

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00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:18,083
I'm not super comfortable
just running the show by myself, but,

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00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:21,954
anyway, we'd like to hear
some of your favorite Christmas movies

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00:20:22,221 --> 00:20:25,657
and, your thoughts on my my pick.

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00:20:25,891 --> 00:20:28,527
If you're watching on YouTube,
of course, you can leave a comment

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00:20:28,527 --> 00:20:33,131
or you can reach me at editor at Guns
Podcast dot U.S.

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So I believe without
looking at the calendar, this is actually

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00:20:36,802 --> 00:20:39,805
the last episode prior to Christmas.

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00:20:39,871 --> 00:20:43,075
So on behalf of Roy Huntington,
who's somewhere on the road,

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00:20:43,375 --> 00:20:46,645
I'd like to wish you all a merry
Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa,

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00:20:46,912 --> 00:20:50,382
or whatever festival
you celebrate here at the end of the year.

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00:20:50,415 --> 00:20:52,451
I hope you have a great holiday.

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00:20:52,451 --> 00:20:55,988
And, we're going to see you back
right after the holiday,

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00:20:56,221 --> 00:20:59,191
and we're going to keep doing this,
and we'll go into 2026

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00:20:59,224 --> 00:21:00,859
and make that even a better year.

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00:21:00,859 --> 00:21:04,896
So anyway, as I always say
on behalf of Roy Huntington,

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00:21:05,397 --> 00:21:06,698
at the end of every episode,

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00:21:06,698 --> 00:21:10,002
I'd like to remind you
now get out there and get shooting.

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00:21:10,802 --> 00:21:11,436
Merry Christmas.