Tim Kurkjian joins Fair Territory: Cal Raleigh's roll, Soaring Brewers, Padres STRONG pen

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Fair Territory with Ken Rosenthal. I am your host, Alana Rizzo, and we are pleased and privileged to be joined by Tim Kirchin, twenty twenty two BBWAA Career Excellence Award winner, writer of course, analyst with ESPN, also the host of Is This Game?

00:00:22
Speaker 2: Is This Great Game?

00:00:23
Speaker 3: Is this Great Game? Or What?

00:00:24
Speaker 1: Podcast with his son Jeff Kirchin. I did not say that, well, Tim Kirchin, but this game is great and it's so great to have you on the podcast.

00:00:33
Speaker 4: How are you.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: I'm really well, and I'm replacing Ken Rosenthal today and we are We're the same height.

00:00:41
Speaker 2: Which is just ridiculous.

00:00:42
Speaker 3: And we used to cover the Orioles together in the eighties on the Beat in Baltimore, and it was right about the time that Ralph Sampson and Akiem Lajauan were together, so they used to call us the twin Towers, even though we were both five ft five. It was embarrassing, but it was great fun and quite a challenge going up against Ken Rosenthal.

00:01:05
Speaker 1: Well, I tell you, it's great to have you. Ken Rosenthal will be back with us on Thursday. He's finally taken some vacation, So Tim, let's get right into it. We'll start with the lead, and let's talk about those Milwaukee Brewers coming off a sweep of the New York Mets. They came back from being down five to nothing, they walked it off on Sunday, and they have won nine straight.

00:01:25
Speaker 3: What do you make of them? They're the best team in baseball, Alana, I'm not sure there's a question about that at this point. Now that could change because everything changes in baseball, especially during this crazy twenty twenty five. But they've won nine in a row. They have three winning streaks of at least eight games this year. No one else has more than one. They have three. They just finished and are continuing the greatest sixty game streak in the history of the Milwaukee Brewers. They have four really good starting pitchers, They have a very good bullpen. They are lead the Nation League and with stolen bases with one hundred and twenty nine. They just run at you until you can't stop them. They have elite defenders at several different positions, and they have a lot of what we call the in factor, and it is real. Every time you walk into their clubhouse, you can feel that this is a close knit team. I did that second game of the season this year on the radio when they got absolutely clobbered by the Yankees, and yet they didn't show mean anything to them that they had just been crushed by the Yankees and then crushed again. They have great spirit in there, and it comes from their manager, Pat Murphy, who we now find out keeps a pancake in his pocket when he gets hungry during the games. He keeps everybody lose. It's a really fun team to be around, and it shows on the field.

00:02:53
Speaker 1: The Brewers are five games ahead of the Phillies and the Blue Jays for Major League Baseball's best record. Tim, you know that you talked about the it factor. You also talked about how it starts with Pat Murphy. What do you think it is about him? Because he seems like the stern guy that is not the guy that's gonna yell at you, but is going to be disappointed in his kids. And that's even worse a guy that would be disappointed versus being mad. But he also is loose when he needs to be. I think it's a good combination.

00:03:21
Speaker 3: It's a wonderful combination. And he's as loose as it gets. He makes me laugh every single time I see him. But when time gets difficult, he isn't afraid to, you know, put his foot down. And you know, they were playing poorly at one point this year, and he said, you know, we're just not a very good offensive team right now. And since then, since Andrew Vaughn came up and others, this team has just taken off.

00:03:47
Speaker 2: By the way.

00:03:47
Speaker 3: Andrew Vaughn said, yeah, I can come up, I can steal some bases. And Pat Murphy looked at him, loves the kid and says, hey, you don't run very fast.

00:03:55
Speaker 2: You're slow.

00:03:55
Speaker 3: You're not going to steal any bases here. You're going to hit the ball out of the ballpark. Exactly what has happened. So talking to players, Alana, as you know, getting through to them is the most important thing about being a manager, and Pat Murphy does that just about as well as anyone in the game.

00:04:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like he's a great communicator, from the Milwaukee Brewers to the San Diego Padres and San Diego Padres recently taking two of three from the Red Sox at Petco Park. Dylan sees Tim on Sunday was incredible. What do you make of what they're doing right now?

00:04:29
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not surprised at all.

00:04:31
Speaker 3: I saw them for three games just before the trade deadline, and I left thinking, how.

00:04:37
Speaker 2: Does anyone get a hit off of their bullpen?

00:04:39
Speaker 3: And since then they added Mason Miller from the A's who throws one hundred and three miles an hour. So their bullpen is so deep, it is so versatile. And Davey Johnson told me years ago, thirty years ago, and he's a major league manager and a really good one. You win in October with bullpen and bench, especially now and now the Padres just have this deep, versatile, loaded bullpen filled with guys who throw in the upper nineties if not one hundred, and they have their offense is really coming around now and once Manny Machado gets hot again, this is going to be a very, very dangerous team. And Dylan Cees is going to be a part of it. I still don't understand how he has struggled this badly this year, but maybe he has found something and if he finds it, they can make a real run at the Dodgers for the division title.

00:05:31
Speaker 2: But they're making the playoffs.

00:05:32
Speaker 3: And They're going to be a difficult out because of the bullpen and because of the way they're swinging the bats.

00:05:38
Speaker 1: Right now, ten forty percent of the innings are being thrown by relievers. Now you mentioned it. This is a bullpen that was unbelievable, and then they add Mason Miller on top of it. This is also a team that even before this year, was not afraid of the Dodgers.

00:05:53
Speaker 2: Tell me more about that.

00:05:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's absolutely true. They have had and you've seen a bunch of these games. They've had some epic games between those two teams, and not being intimidated by the Dodgers is half the battle. And the Dodgers will tell you quietly that the best team they've played in the postseason last year was the Padres. Padres looked like they were going to win that series and the Dodgers just charged back to win it. It was tremendous stuff. But everybody knows now when the Dodgers and Padres get together, there is no way San Diego is backing down of the Dodgers, who, once they get healthy, are going to be a great team again. But the Padres are really good and not fearing the Dodgers is really important.

00:06:38
Speaker 1: And they're right there, right on their heels in the NL West. Padres certainly thinking division versus the wild card, and I tell you what, the ALE wild card, tim and the AL in general is up for grabs. It's kind of a scratch your head type of division. How do you kind of sift through what's going on in the American League?

00:06:58
Speaker 3: Well, I've been wrong about the American League for the entire season. At the beginning of the year, I said, I have no feel whatsoever for this league. There are no great teams in this league, and so far that has been true. I counted the Guardians out like three times this year, saying they have no chance to make the playoffs, and now they are half a game out of the wild card. I said the same thing about the Meritors. I said, they're just not going to score enough runs to make a run at the division or the playoffs, and right now they are the number one playoff team in the American League. The Yankees were seven and a half games ahead in their division. Now there's six and a half games behind Toronto, who I also counted out at one point this year saying I think they're just a fourth place team. Now it looks like they're going to win the division. This is why the American League is so much fun this year. With no great teams and so many teams in it, this is going to be a free for all. This is going to be a fistfight right to the end, and they're going to be about six to seven eights that are gonna be going for playoff spots.

00:08:02
Speaker 2: It's gonna be one.

00:08:03
Speaker 1: You mentioned the Guardians that you had written them off. I think everybody had written them off. Now this is a team that they've won four straight series. They're seven to two in the month of August, they were sellers at the deadline. Make this make sense?

00:08:15
Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't make sense, Alna, But that's the beauty of it. Just like the Tigers last year didn't make any sense. We did the game in Williamsport when they came back and beat the Yankees in the ninth innings. They weren't even considered a contender. They sold at the trade deadline and they took off after beating the Yankees in that Sunday night game. Maybe the same thing is happening with the Guardians here. They're scoring a few more runs I'm not sure how, but good for them. And they're doing this without their star closer, and that's what's more impressive than anything else that manager Stephen Vote has such a good pulse of that team and he is keeping them in this thing, and it's so impressive. Instead of giving up, they are charging hard.

00:09:02
Speaker 1: Yankees forty four and forty three, just one game above five hundred since May first. Tim, do they make the playoffs?

00:09:10
Speaker 3: Ah, I'm gonna say right now, I don't think they're gonna make the playoffs. And it came to me in the night that they're playing so poorly right now, and even though Aaron Judge is back and he's going to carry them, you just look at the other teams around them that are playing so much better than they are right now.

00:09:29
Speaker 2: So if you're.

00:09:30
Speaker 3: Asking me who's gonna make the playoffs, that the Guardians or the Yankees, I may have to say the Guardians. And I can't believe I'm saying that because the Yankees always find a way to make the playoffs. But this has been almost ninety games as just a very average team. Tim.

00:09:46
Speaker 1: Are we living in a world where the Yankees and the Mets may miss the postseason.

00:09:52
Speaker 2: I can't.

00:09:53
Speaker 3: I can't go that far. The Mets, though, are struggling again, but never forget Alana. They had a terrible st at you earlier this year and people looked at and said, well, maybe they're not good.

00:10:04
Speaker 2: And then they got hot again.

00:10:05
Speaker 3: This is how it's worked all throughout baseball. So I'm not going to say the Mets and the Yankees are not going to make the playoffs. But you know, two and a half months ago that was inconceivable and now who knows. But I'm saying the Mets are going to find a way to make the playoffs, but they better get going and soon.

00:10:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why this is the greatest game in the world. Much more to come on Fair Territory with Tim Kirchin today, coming back in just a moment with Inside Dish. Right after this.

00:10:33
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00:10:56
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00:11:12
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00:11:36
Speaker 4: Well, well, all right, time now for inside Dish, where we typically go deeper on a recent story or trend in the game.

00:11:49
Speaker 1: Tim, let's talk about cal Rawly. Is he an MVP candidate or moreover, is he the MVP pick in the American League.

00:11:59
Speaker 3: I still go they aren't judges the MVP in the American League, but it is now really really close. Cal Raley is having arguably the greatest might have the greatest season a catcher has ever had. He is doing it in the middle of a pennant race. He is a switch hitter with power who hits in the middle of the order. And most important, he is not just a catcher, the most important defensive position on the field. He is an elite defensive catcher. And he is the leader of that team in every way. He's the son of a coach. He carries himself that way all the time. And the biggest reason that the Mariners are where they are right now that is a very dangerous team, is because of cal Raleigh. And he's a folk hero in Seattle, and then after the home run Derby when his brother was the catcher and his dad was the pitcher. He's a folk hero all over the country now since he won the home run Derby. So people are are going to factor all sorts of things into cal Raleigh's situation. But if he wins the MVP, I wouldn't be surprised at all, because switch hitters just don't do what cal Raley is doing, especially switch hitting catchers.

00:13:16
Speaker 1: Tim Isn't that the definition though, of MVP? Why do you think Aaron Judge is still the front runner?

00:13:21
Speaker 3: If you do, well, I do, But Alana, we've gotten away from the word valuable in the MVP. We are now awarding this to the player of the Year. And I understand how that works. But I've been voting up for these things for forty four years, and I look at a team and say, where would they be without this guy? How important is he to their team as far as winning and getting to the playoffs. That still matters to me. And you look at the Mariners without cal Raley, there's no chance they're going to make the playoffs. Of course, the exact same thing can be said about Aaron Judge. You see what happens when he comes out of the lineup. The Yankees are a completely different team. But this guy, what he's doing as a switch hitter. You know, even Mickey Mantle didn't get the forty home runs before August like cal Raley did. And he's going to break the record. Perez's record for the most home runs by a primary catcher forty eight in a season. In fact, he might obliterate it, that's how great he's been.

00:14:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was back in twenty twenty one with sal Perez had that forty eight home run season. I mean, what do you think he's done in terms of being able to elevate the Mariners offense, because he does it behind the plate obviously as a tremendous defensive catcher, but it almost seems like he allows the rest of the guys in that lineup to really be where they're supposed to.

00:14:45
Speaker 2: Be, right.

00:14:47
Speaker 3: I always thought that Julio Rodriguez pressed a little bit thinking I'm the best player on the team, and he has every right.

00:14:53
Speaker 2: To think that way.

00:14:54
Speaker 3: But now that they've got cal Raley and now others around him Randy Rozarena include and Uhanio Suarez, I think it's taken some pressure off Julio Rodriguez and he thinks I can just be one of the guys and go out there and mash. But it's mainly because he doesn't have to be the star on the team anymore, because they already have a star cal Raley, who's been a star there for several years. We just haven't really noticed until he started hitting home runs at a record pace and doing amazing things at the All Star Game.

00:15:27
Speaker 1: Tim I feel like it's finally the year where the Mariners lineup and offense catches up with their tremendous starting staff and their arms in general. How far can cal Rawly carry this team into the postseason.

00:15:40
Speaker 3: Well, the Mariners are certainly good enough to go to the World Series in the American League, and that's never happened before. So it would be a really big deal if the Mariners can do that. And I think given all the Dodger injuries, even though there's much, I think there's much greater strength than the National League. With the starting pitching that the Mariners have and they're one through six in the order is the best I've seen in Seattle in twenty five years. I think they are not only good enough to get to the World Series, I think they can win the World Series. That's got people in Seattle excited, and well it should, because this is a different look to the Mariners because of the corner infielders that they add at Josh Naylor and Juhanio Suarez give them a very formidable lineup.

00:16:27
Speaker 1: Now, my goodness, August eleven, Tim Kirchin saying that the Seattle Mariners can go to the World Series for the first time and win the whole dang thing. I tell you what. Jerry Depoto obviously constantly making moves. Do you think they won the deadline by adding Josh Naylor and eu Henio Suarez?

00:16:46
Speaker 3: I do they needed punch at third base? They needed punch at first base.

00:16:51
Speaker 2: And I asked somebody around the league.

00:16:53
Speaker 3: I said, look, the Mariners have let you know, let themselves down, their fans down many times. I said, do you see that happening again? And emphatically he goes, no, I love that team. That team is ready to go. And this is a very honest man that answered me that way. He would have told me something bad's gonna happen there. It always does. He doesn't think so this year.

00:17:16
Speaker 1: Does Calvaly get a statue?

00:17:19
Speaker 3: Well, when you got a nickname like Big Dumper, he's gonna get a statue. Whether he never plays a game again anyway. Again, he has charisma, he has color to him. It's just so great. And again that scene Alta at the All Star Game was one of the great things I've ever seen. Dad's throwing in your little brothers to Catcher. I asked him afterwards, where are you guys gonna go celebrate? And he said, well, my brother's only fifteen years old, so my dad and I are going to go have a beer and we'll celebrate with him from Afar.

00:17:50
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

00:17:51
Speaker 1: I heard he was supposed to buy his brother a car too. We'll see if that actually happens. I'm not even certain that he's old enough to drive yet. Maybe he just got his permit. Tim, How did he figure out how to hit at that ballpark?

00:18:04
Speaker 3: That's a tough place to hit, but again it really helps, as we saw on the home run derby that he hits from both sides of the plate. And the key to being a switch hitter, and it's not easy, is to try to have the same swing and the same approach from both sides. Chipper Jones was the best I've ever seen. His left handed swing and right handed swing I thought were virtually identical. And go look at those numbers lefty and righty. They're virtually identical. And this is what cal Raley does so well. Doesn't matter what side he hits from. He is a terror for pitchers in Major League Baseball.

00:18:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a special player, having a special season. I don't know that he'll ever even repeat what he's doing this year. All right, coming up after the break, it is time for grilling. Tim, get your questions in. It's not often that we have an opportunity to ask Tim Kirchin some questions.

00:18:56
Speaker 3: Get him in.

00:18:56
Speaker 1: We'll be back right after this.

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00:20:06
Speaker 1: All right time now for Grill and Ken get those questions in for Tim Kirchin and also on your podcast is Great? Is this a great game?

00:20:13
Speaker 3: Or what?

00:20:13
Speaker 4: Tim?

00:20:14
Speaker 1: You guys often talk about this date in history, so that is where we're going to start our questions today. On this date, in nineteen twenty nine, Babe Ruth hit his five hundredth career home run. How do you think, and this is a conversation we've had quite some time in this industry, how do you think Tim, he would fare against today's pitching.

00:20:32
Speaker 3: Well, it would take him a while to figure it out because he never saw velocity like this. He never saw a split like this.

00:20:40
Speaker 2: But I really.

00:20:41
Speaker 3: Believe if you gave Babe Ruth a couple of months, he would figure it out and he would be not a good hitter, a great hitter Today, Alana, he hit tape measure home runs, you know, almost one hundred years, one hundred years ago. How do you explain that he was bigger, stronger than anyone else at that time. He was sixty two two twenty five in his prime. He could run, He was a good right fielder. He was the best left handed pitcher in the American League. When he decided to become a hitter, and then he became the greatest hitter of all time. He has one hundred and thirty six triples in his career. He could really run, and it drives me crazy. I love John Goodman, but we have these actors play Babe Ruth in the movies and they turn him into a cartoon character instead of what he is, the greatest player of all time. That's what I think. I want to ask Bert Hawkins. He was a former baseball writer who wrote one hundred years ago. And I said, Hawk, who's the greatest player you've ever seen? And he looked insulted. He looked at me and said, buddy boy, I'll take Babe Ruth and you can have the next three. That's how great Babe Ruth was Alana. When he got to seven hundred homers, nobody else had half that many. He was the first hit thirty forty, fifty and sixty in a season. My team growing up was the Washington Senators, and from nineteen twenty six to nineteen thirty two, Babe Ruth out homered the Washington Senators for a seven year period. That's how dominant he was in his era. And I am in the vast minority on this. But I think if we dropped him into today's game gave him an opportunity to figure out how to hit this, he would have figured it out. That's how great a hitter he was and how great an athlete he was.

00:22:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said that you're taking Babe Ruth. Everybody else can have the entire field. But you just mentioned a word that I don't think a lot of people would associate with Babe Ruth, and you said athlete. I think he's a lot more athletic t him than people gave him credit for.

00:22:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

00:22:45
Speaker 3: You know, he was a great basketball player, and you know, Alana, he threw, of course with his left hand, and he batted left handed, but he wrote and ate with his right hand, which I've always been fascinated Brooks Robinson is like that the other way around. But both adexterus, which allowed him to be an even better athlete than people understand. I repeat, he could run, He stole over one hundred bases. He was a great pitcher, He was a good right fielder, and again we've made him out to be this big, fat guy who runs around the bases backwards and he eats twelve hot dogs during a game. Yes, he was a carouser, but he was also a great player and a great athlete.

00:23:25
Speaker 1: What do you think he would have been like on a daily in conversations in the clubhouse? Tim, do you think you could have walked into that Yankee clubhouse back in the day or the Red Sox clubhouse before he was traded to the Yankees and have quite the conversation with him. What do you think he was like?

00:23:39
Speaker 3: Well, if I could go back in time and speak to one player or one person, most people want to talk to Abraham Lincoln. I would want to go back and talk to Babe Ruth and just figure out who the heck are you. I had a friend of mine who does these things for a living, and he says, the fast twitch muscles inside Babe Ruth were unexplainable. We need to cut his body open to see how he was able to hit the ball that far. But I would just love to ask him all the baseball stories.

00:24:11
Speaker 2: I want to know what it was like to face.

00:24:13
Speaker 3: Walter Johnson because I went to Walter Johnson High School. Right here on my shirt named after the greatest pitcher of all time. I would love to sit with Babe Ruth on a train ride and just pick his brain about how he became this good and how he stayed this good when sometimes he didn't exactly follow the rules.

00:24:31
Speaker 1: All right, Tam, we have about a minute left in the show. If you had a dinner party, Babe, Ruth is your head guest. Who are the other two people that you're inviting besides your lovely wife, dead or alive?

00:24:42
Speaker 3: Well, I think Walter Johnson has to be there, because again, I went to school named after the greatest pitcher of all time. So I'd love to go back one hundred and twenty years and talk to the best pitcher and the best hitter that we've ever seen. And then, since we already mentioned him, I think Abraham Lincoln should be there because he was doing some important things before they came along. And by the way, Alana, if you don't know, you know who shares a birthday with Abraham Lincoln. I don't know why I get such a kick out of Todd Frasier has the same birthday as Abraham four score and twenty sixty years ago. Oh my god, Todd Frasy makes me laugh worse.

00:25:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ago and the Tod Father at this at the same dinner. Tim Kirchen, I appreciate you so much. I can talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Say you for taking the tide to be with us on Fair Territory, filling in for your good friend Ken Rosenthal.

00:25:40
Speaker 2: Have a great day.

00:25:41
Speaker 3: We appreciate it.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon, my friend.

00:25:43
Speaker 2: Thank you. Alana, enjoyed and see you.

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