"M" (1931) vs. "Psycho" (1960) vs. "The Silence of the Lambs" (1991): Part 2

<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't
<v Speaker 1>Be Serious Podcast. I am here in my grandmother's wig
<v Speaker 1>and long dress with my butcher knife, and Jason is
<v Speaker 1>over here in his skin suit with everything nicely tucked.
<v Speaker 1>We are sitting down to a beautiful dinner of liver,
<v Speaker 1>farvar beans and a nice chiante. I can't wait to
<v Speaker 1>dive into this. We are back with the thirty something
<v Speaker 1>movie podcast. Guys again, We're jumping back into our conversation
<v Speaker 1>on the movies m Psycho and Silence of the Lambs. Okay,
<v Speaker 1>so what do you guys think is the best scene
<v Speaker 1>in the movie? You got to pick one scene? Is
<v Speaker 1>the best scene? What are you going to? Which one
<v Speaker 1>are you gonna pick?
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go and Peter Lourie, Oh if something
<v Speaker 2>else go first?
<v Speaker 3>Go ahead.
<v Speaker 1>No, you already start a good book.
<v Speaker 2>It breaks down.
<v Speaker 4>He gets his lines at the end, and there's the
<v Speaker 4>big kind of if you want to call it a monologue.
<v Speaker 4>And I think the anguish and the torture of you
<v Speaker 4>presenting this problem of this is me. I have this issue.
<v Speaker 4>What are you going to do with it?
<v Speaker 2>What do you know?
<v Speaker 1>Like it?
<v Speaker 4>I can't help it, and I think it's a pretty
<v Speaker 4>passionate throws people into it. You know, how do you
<v Speaker 4>deal with this problem now? Because you want to hate him,
<v Speaker 4>and we do, But at the same time, he's explaining
<v Speaker 4>that this is not my choice, this is something that
<v Speaker 4>I am sick, I am ill, and what do we
<v Speaker 4>do with the sick and ill in our society, especially
<v Speaker 4>when they're harming our children. It gives you that ethical
<v Speaker 4>dilemma to a certain degree where you don't feel necessarily
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't say simply, well, would it be sympathy. Maybe
<v Speaker 4>it would be sympathy or empathy maybe a little bit.
<v Speaker 4>But I think that that scene it there where because
<v Speaker 4>now it's just you know, all along it's him, so
<v Speaker 4>there's no hiding of who done it. But now you
<v Speaker 4>get to hear him talk really for the first time,
<v Speaker 4>and what he says isn't like it's almost disarming to
<v Speaker 4>a certain degree for people with this kind of mock
<v Speaker 4>trial going on and what appears to be like a
<v Speaker 4>basement somewhere.
<v Speaker 1>So I think all.
<v Speaker 5>Three of these movies do a great job of adding
<v Speaker 5>a bit of sympathy for the bad guy.
<v Speaker 1>Right.
<v Speaker 5>We feel bad that the kangaroo Courts about to pull
<v Speaker 5>this guy apart, you know, and Norm Bates we feel
<v Speaker 5>a little bit bad. This guy's got major issues, you know,
<v Speaker 5>he's got trouble. And then even Buffalo Bill, I'm like,
<v Speaker 5>this guy's messed up.
<v Speaker 1>He yeah, I mean we'll get to we'll get to
<v Speaker 1>that in a minute. But that's not the best scene.
<v Speaker 1>But the scene where he's talking to her in the
<v Speaker 1>pit and he keeps trying to say, you know, it
<v Speaker 1>will put the lotion on, it will put the lotion on.
<v Speaker 1>Ted Levine does a fantastic job of showing you that
<v Speaker 1>he's having difficulty controlling the sadness he has for the
<v Speaker 1>creature that he's trying to kill. You know, he's trying
<v Speaker 1>to keep separate. You can see him struggling, and then
<v Speaker 1>you know the way he overcomes to that is to
<v Speaker 1>start screaming at her in a different.
<v Speaker 2>Way, fighting the urges too.
<v Speaker 4>They're they're battling their demons and you get to experience
<v Speaker 4>it through those exchanges, and in this one with them,
<v Speaker 4>it's it's again the whistling that never seems perfect. You know,
<v Speaker 4>it's not like he's whistling like the best whistling. And
<v Speaker 4>then there's the one scene where he's whistling and it's
<v Speaker 4>like almost an angry, frustrated like I can't control this,
<v Speaker 4>and he's whistling, and like you can feel the struggle
<v Speaker 4>of him trying to keep it at bay and keep
<v Speaker 4>those bad thoughts at bay, and he's struggling, and the
<v Speaker 4>whistling becomes you know, it's not like an enjoyable sinister whistle,
<v Speaker 4>you know, which which it maybe sort of feels like
<v Speaker 4>in the beginning, but then you start to seal it
<v Speaker 4>and see that it's just it's almost torture for him.
<v Speaker 1>What he says is that he is tormented by the
<v Speaker 1>souls night and day, the tormented by his victims, tormented
<v Speaker 1>by the thoughts of their mothers, tormented always and forever
<v Speaker 1>except when he's doing it. The best scene for me.
<v Speaker 5>I don't know if i'd call this the best scene,
<v Speaker 5>but maybe it's the plot device whatever.
<v Speaker 1>I really like how you got the cops.
<v Speaker 5>Who are like, listen, we got to find this guy
<v Speaker 5>right now, and then you got the under world who's like,
<v Speaker 5>we got to find this guy right now.
<v Speaker 1>These cops are all over the place because of this guy,
<v Speaker 1>and we got to get rid of them, right Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it was.
<v Speaker 5>It was, and it kept cutting back and forth between
<v Speaker 5>the meeting with the cops in the game.
<v Speaker 4>Take a little of the of a Dark Night, where
<v Speaker 4>it's like the bad guys are having that meeting.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, problem, you know.
<v Speaker 1>This is exactly Yeah. It was much more enlightened than
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was going to be for a nineteen
<v Speaker 1>thirty one movie. I just was like, Wow, they're really
<v Speaker 1>talking about the struggle of the psychology of the murder
<v Speaker 1>of the child murderer. Here are we really exploring that?
<v Speaker 1>And then to leave it with the question unanswered of
<v Speaker 1>what do you do? Fritz Lang wants to say that
<v Speaker 1>you know that the point is to take better care
<v Speaker 1>of your kids, But I think the question is who's
<v Speaker 1>going to cast the first stone? I think that's what
<v Speaker 1>the question is, right. Do you put the mad dog
<v Speaker 1>down like the lady in the Kangaroo Court says you
<v Speaker 1>should do, or do you commit them to an asylum
<v Speaker 1>and try to care for him or I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>It's stuff. I watched it with my eighteen year old too,
<v Speaker 1>and she was like, this is one of the best
<v Speaker 1>movies I've ever seen. I was like, wow, this movie
<v Speaker 1>is ninety years old.
<v Speaker 6>Well, I can't say, like what you just said like
<v Speaker 6>codifies it so well? Like what really hooked me into
<v Speaker 6>this movie? And I know we were talking about like
<v Speaker 6>a comparison to Jaws. This movie almost did for me
<v Speaker 6>what Jaws does. Where Yeah, it's about the shark and
<v Speaker 6>it's about an adventure on the ocean, but that's great,
<v Speaker 6>but it's also an exploration of humanity and not only
<v Speaker 6>with you know, in Jaws you have those three lead characters,
<v Speaker 6>you know, like each hitting the problem from a different aspect,
<v Speaker 6>but then it's also all about the townspeople and or
<v Speaker 6>the island people and how are they responding and the
<v Speaker 6>mayor how is he responding? And oh, well is the
<v Speaker 6>shark a big problem? Or hey, you know it can happen,
<v Speaker 6>but we're still going to go swimming and odds are
<v Speaker 6>will be okay. I had the same feels watching this movie,
<v Speaker 6>just seeing everybody react to what was happening, and I
<v Speaker 6>saw a lot of I heard and felt a lot
<v Speaker 6>of the same beats like well, I don't have kids,
<v Speaker 6>this doesn't affect me, or we all need to be
<v Speaker 6>in together. Well everyone's not in it together, guys. I
<v Speaker 6>think that was like the city planners and the government
<v Speaker 6>was like not everyone's going for the Hey, let's do
<v Speaker 6>this together. So how do we get people on board
<v Speaker 6>with this? And I mean it was like wow. So
<v Speaker 6>it kind of was in a way. A lot of
<v Speaker 6>it was like less about the killer and catching the
<v Speaker 6>killer and more just watching everybody in society react and
<v Speaker 6>like you said, like that hit me like holy buckets.
<v Speaker 7>Ninety ninety years old.
<v Speaker 8>Favorite, I mean favorites for me is probably the one
<v Speaker 8>Dennis mentioned at the very end when he just they
<v Speaker 8>bring him into that court and he just starts to
<v Speaker 8>unleash and try to explain or just try to unburden
<v Speaker 8>his soul on you know why he's been knowing what
<v Speaker 8>he's doing. But if I'm going to pick a different one,
<v Speaker 8>I would go pick the scene where there's the kind
<v Speaker 8>of little old man and he's walking down the street
<v Speaker 8>and the little girl or the kid stops and asks
<v Speaker 8>what time it is, and all of a sudden, everybody
<v Speaker 8>starts crowding around, like why are you talking to this kid?
<v Speaker 8>What are you doing? What I couldn't get out of
<v Speaker 8>my head watching this movie was the idea that it's
<v Speaker 8>ninety years old. This was nineteen thirty one and I'm thinking,
<v Speaker 8>this is nineteen thirty one and Germany. What is going
<v Speaker 8>on in the early nineteen thirties and Germany it's I
<v Speaker 8>don't even want to say the calm before the storm.
<v Speaker 8>It's the like despair before the storm of the Great
<v Speaker 8>Depression and what the people of Germany were going through
<v Speaker 8>and all the unemployment and just all of the absolute
<v Speaker 8>I mean, that's what I used to teach in my
<v Speaker 8>social studies class, was just the absolute desperation that led
<v Speaker 8>to the rise of the Nazi Party to replace the Reichstag.
<v Speaker 8>And you know, watching this movie, I'm watching a scene
<v Speaker 8>where you have this community that I'm sure in any
<v Speaker 8>other time these people wouldn't be jumping on each other
<v Speaker 8>at the first chance they get, but because of the
<v Speaker 8>despair and the paranoia and the just this creeping feeling
<v Speaker 8>that you can't you feel helpless to do anything about,
<v Speaker 8>you know, I think that kind of sums up what
<v Speaker 8>the people of Germany were feeling like during the Great
<v Speaker 8>Depression and during this late twenties early thirties time. But
<v Speaker 8>just that scene to me as I'm watching it, and
<v Speaker 8>everybody starting to gang up on this man just because
<v Speaker 8>he told the little kid what time it was. I
<v Speaker 8>just I could not separate that. I could not divorce
<v Speaker 8>it from what was going on in this period in history.
<v Speaker 8>And so that scene, even though it may not be
<v Speaker 8>a major scene in the movie, like that one hit
<v Speaker 8>me as I was watching it, and.
<v Speaker 4>It's not exactly the same thing. But when I think
<v Speaker 4>of twelve Angry Men, twelve Angry Men leaves you. As
<v Speaker 4>a kid, I remember going, but wait, did he get
<v Speaker 4>is he guilty? Was he not guilty? Asking my dad
<v Speaker 4>as probably like an eight year old at the time,
<v Speaker 4>or a ten year old, because my dad just saw
<v Speaker 4>that movie over and over and over and over again.
<v Speaker 4>And I remember like being somewhat frustrated as a child
<v Speaker 4>that I wanted the answer, and then I realized as
<v Speaker 4>you grow older that it's the question that's more important
<v Speaker 4>than the answer. And then this I think it's the
<v Speaker 4>same thing. And to me, the question is what do
<v Speaker 4>you do with somebody who's mentally ill? Is it morally
<v Speaker 4>justified to kill them and execute them? Is it morally
<v Speaker 4>justified to put them in jail and take care of
<v Speaker 4>them and pay for them, you know, and keep them
<v Speaker 4>and try to keep them away from people. But what
<v Speaker 4>if he gets out the arms again? Are you now
<v Speaker 4>cupable because you allow?
<v Speaker 7>You know?
<v Speaker 4>So it opens that whole big discussion and thought process
<v Speaker 4>of what do you do with the second society? The
<v Speaker 4>people are not well in our harmony others, and do
<v Speaker 4>we become monsters?
<v Speaker 5>Answer that question in Psycho as you put him away
<v Speaker 5>for twenty years and then when you let him out
<v Speaker 5>he starts killing people again.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Psycho Too written by It's the guy did Frida Night
<v Speaker 1>right exactly, same guy did frid Night, Tom Holme. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>that's right. You seen Psycho too? Yes, that's pretty good. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>it's worth watching.
<v Speaker 2>Psycho two is pretty good.
<v Speaker 4>The worst thing about Psycho that I think when I
<v Speaker 4>get the bad tastes when it was the remake with
<v Speaker 4>the guy's a comedian.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get a quick question? So who
<v Speaker 1>who played an Hash's sister who comes looking for after it?
<v Speaker 1>Is it Jillian Moore? That's what I was wondering. It
<v Speaker 1>is Julian Moore? I think who played Clarice Starling in
<v Speaker 1>the next Sorry yeah, no said, I just just occurred
<v Speaker 1>to me. I'm just like, was she in like the sequel?
<v Speaker 1>The bad sequel to both of these? She was in
<v Speaker 1>the Bad sequel to Psycho, and she was in the
<v Speaker 1>bad sequel to Silence of the Lambs. Yep, yep, there
<v Speaker 1>you go. All right, she participated in the eating of
<v Speaker 1>his brains. Oh yeah, but she was in The Big Lebowski,
<v Speaker 1>so that she's in Things and Boginos and Jurassic Park two.
<v Speaker 1>Which that is.
<v Speaker 9>The takeaway is if you want your movie to suck
<v Speaker 9>as a sequel, Julianne Moore as a way to go.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, the sequel to the you know, the Hannibal
<v Speaker 4>one with Juliane Moore in there.
<v Speaker 2>I remember watching it. I didn't think it.
<v Speaker 4>I wondered always too, like, obviously, the first one is
<v Speaker 4>such a classic that the other one is not gonna
<v Speaker 4>be able to top that. If that other one was
<v Speaker 4>the first one, would we have felt as bad about it,
<v Speaker 4>you know as people sound like diffel Because I didn't
<v Speaker 4>think it was horrible.
<v Speaker 1>We turned it off in my house when he started
<v Speaker 1>feeding him his own brain. How was the turnoff point
<v Speaker 1>for us?
<v Speaker 8>I've never actually really liked ray Leota as an actor
<v Speaker 8>all that much, so I really enjoyed it.
<v Speaker 5>I just couldn't handle Clarice going away with him. I
<v Speaker 5>just couldn't get over that part. Okay, So over to Psycho,
<v Speaker 5>we did touch a little bit.
<v Speaker 1>We don't need to talk about casting on em because
<v Speaker 1>we don't have anything on that, but we didn't talk
<v Speaker 1>about casting at all on Psycho. So we've got Anthony
<v Speaker 1>Perkins yep. We've got Janet Lee yep, who, by the way,
<v Speaker 1>from nineteen eighty four to two thousand and two wrote
<v Speaker 1>four books, including two novels, so that's pretty impressive. We
<v Speaker 1>have Vera Miles, yes, who needed a movie to finish
<v Speaker 1>out her contract and so this She was supposed to
<v Speaker 1>do some other movie and got pregnant and couldn't do it.
<v Speaker 1>So Hitchcock said, all right, come do this movie for me.
<v Speaker 1>You have John Gavin, who played the part of Sam Louis.
<v Speaker 1>You have Pat Hitchcock. Alfred Hitchcock's daughter is the one
<v Speaker 1>who's playing the other girl who works in the office.
<v Speaker 1>You didn't know that, double your face, you didn't know that. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>So the other girl who works in the office with
<v Speaker 1>Janet Lee's character with Marion, that's Pat Hitchcock. That's Alfred
<v Speaker 1>hitch cocks a daughter. And then the detective is played
<v Speaker 1>by Martin Balsam, who is also in twelve angry men
<v Speaker 1>that you just talked about. Nice.
<v Speaker 8>Nice, And I also want to point out as well,
<v Speaker 8>Marian's last name is Crane, which is also a bird,
<v Speaker 8>just like Starling. Yes, just like in the one scene
<v Speaker 8>of m there might have been a bird sitting in
<v Speaker 8>a bush. I don't know. I tried to connect all
<v Speaker 8>three stretch.
<v Speaker 7>Eight year old dude, eight year olds?
<v Speaker 1>What's a Petter ass Walter? Okay, So first scene, first
<v Speaker 1>scene in that movie, you've got what was supposed to
<v Speaker 1>be a helicopter shot, but it was too unsteady, so
<v Speaker 1>they really just did it like panting across a photograph.
<v Speaker 1>And then you go into the apartment where two people
<v Speaker 1>are obviously engaged in an affair. Nooner.
<v Speaker 5>It's a nooner, It's a Is it the first nooner
<v Speaker 5>we ever get in cinema history?
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.
<v Speaker 6>I was kind of surprised at that with Like, I mean,
<v Speaker 6>I don't see every movie that came out in the sixties,
<v Speaker 6>but that surprised me.
<v Speaker 7>A lot of that stuff that that was there in
<v Speaker 7>the sixties.
<v Speaker 5>See, I heard that Hitchcock he fluffed up certain scenes
<v Speaker 5>so that the sensors would kind of they could scale
<v Speaker 5>those back so they would leave the shower scene and
<v Speaker 5>the murder scene and stuff like that. So he went
<v Speaker 5>kind of full throttle with lebron underwear.
<v Speaker 1>So the sensors would go after from there, and they didn't.
<v Speaker 1>They didn't. First let's talk about first scene. Let's talk
<v Speaker 1>about first scene. Any thoughts on first scene?
<v Speaker 8>Well, I want to make an original comment about the
<v Speaker 8>whole You know that they're enjoying each other's company in
<v Speaker 8>the middle of the day. Being in a movie in
<v Speaker 8>the sixties, it was my understanding that there would be
<v Speaker 8>train tunnels to let me know when those kind of
<v Speaker 8>scenes were going to I've seen Hitchcock before, I know
<v Speaker 8>how he handles this kind of stuff, and I had
<v Speaker 8>no train tunnel, so I felt lost.
<v Speaker 9>We'll explain it to your to you when you're older,
<v Speaker 9>John Dora about it.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.
<v Speaker 1>So the guy John Gavin, the guy playing Sammis, was
<v Speaker 1>an ultimate gentleman, and this was the very first scene
<v Speaker 1>that he in genitally shot together. And after about ten
<v Speaker 1>or twenty takes, Alfred Hitchcock goes to Janet Lee and says,
<v Speaker 1>not really feeling a lot of passion, here, can you
<v Speaker 1>take this in hand? And she said what he goes,
<v Speaker 1>can you take this in hand? And she said yes
<v Speaker 1>I can, and she aroused the passion and her co
<v Speaker 1>actor enough to make the scene a little more believable.
<v Speaker 1>Anything for the scene, right, Okay? Any other thoughts about
<v Speaker 1>opening scene? Nothing?
<v Speaker 6>Well, after hearing that little tidbit, I've got about six
<v Speaker 6>or seven hundred, but I mean, like.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so best scene, best scene, go, it's the shower scene.
<v Speaker 1>It's the shower scene.
<v Speaker 7>Definitely got the point across.
<v Speaker 4>I think it's a toss up between the Martin Balsom
<v Speaker 4>going down the stae and I think it's also just
<v Speaker 4>the reveal. I remember watching the reveal at the end
<v Speaker 4>where it's that he comes in spins her yeah, and
<v Speaker 4>it's she turns the chair around and it's the mother
<v Speaker 4>and the chair of the skeleton, and then all of
<v Speaker 4>a sudden he comes.
<v Speaker 2>Out that door and he's got the wig all ryans.
<v Speaker 4>So I remember seeing that there was a show that
<v Speaker 4>did there was a no and I know somebody had
<v Speaker 4>one of you had the book, that History of Horror book.
<v Speaker 4>And there was also a show that was on that
<v Speaker 4>aired on TV frequently was always kind of replayed and
<v Speaker 4>they would go into like the Great classic characters and horrors,
<v Speaker 4>and I can't remember it was, but they would always
<v Speaker 4>show that scene.
<v Speaker 2>I think that I think maybe that the reveal is powerful.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is. The problem with this movie is that
<v Speaker 1>it was made well before any of us were born,
<v Speaker 1>and so it's so popular. We all just kind of
<v Speaker 1>grew up knowing who Norman Bates really was and knowing
<v Speaker 1>that the shower scene was coming, and so that was
<v Speaker 1>kind of embedded in us. I would say to me,
<v Speaker 1>I think the most impactful, frightening scene is that scene
<v Speaker 1>when the detective reaches the top of the stairs and
<v Speaker 1>the camera angle is from above, and it's such a
<v Speaker 1>perfect use of music because you see her come out
<v Speaker 1>the door in silence, come out the door for just
<v Speaker 1>a split second before that music comes in with their
<v Speaker 1>wa and it made me jump out of my seat.
<v Speaker 4>The Verdigo effect going down the stairs, with the falling,
<v Speaker 4>it's just yeah, it was just shocking.
<v Speaker 5>A pun shot and he's got that slash on his
<v Speaker 5>face or whatever.
<v Speaker 2>Now, how old were you, guys? How old was everybody
<v Speaker 2>when they saw this?
<v Speaker 1>High school? Probably? I don't know if I watched it
<v Speaker 1>all the way through. I feel like I did watch
<v Speaker 1>it all the way through once, but I was not
<v Speaker 1>smart enough to like fully understand it or whatever. So
<v Speaker 1>really the first first viewing for me, it was in
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of weeks.
<v Speaker 2>Really wow.
<v Speaker 8>Like my dad would get on a stretch of like
<v Speaker 8>watching movies on a theme or movies by a particular director,
<v Speaker 8>and I remember during high school he was on a
<v Speaker 8>pretty good stretch of Hitchcock movies. So I all kind
<v Speaker 8>of at the same time. When I was probably about
<v Speaker 8>fifteen sixteen, we watched Marnie Psycho north By Northwest. I
<v Speaker 8>had seen the Birds when I was a little kid,
<v Speaker 8>but he always he loved Hitchcock and we used to
<v Speaker 8>always watch Hitchcock Presents. But the movies I didn't see
<v Speaker 8>until high school. But then it was like boom boom boom,
<v Speaker 8>one right after the other of like all the Hitchcock classics.
<v Speaker 2>I can say that.
<v Speaker 4>I did not know anything about this when I first
<v Speaker 4>saw it all the way through, Like I mean, you know,
<v Speaker 4>you hear Psycho whatever, but in the shower scene, but
<v Speaker 4>I don't know who the killer was in the shower scene.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know it was a guy.
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know what was going on, but I've seen
<v Speaker 4>the scene before you know, and he kind of knew
<v Speaker 4>that was coming, but the actual reveal at the end
<v Speaker 4>of the movie, the whole thing. I got to experience
<v Speaker 4>that fresh for a first time, probably as about a
<v Speaker 4>twelve year old. So I keep thinking it was like John,
<v Speaker 4>your uncle I remember, showed you a lot of things
<v Speaker 4>that were probably inappropriated in earlier age of movies and
<v Speaker 4>just let me watch them.
<v Speaker 2>It was the I was the youngest of.
<v Speaker 4>Five, so there's four older brothers, so by just the
<v Speaker 4>default case of you know what, just one kid, so
<v Speaker 4>what if he gets a little screwed up. I think
<v Speaker 4>that might have been the philosophy. They're older brothers who
<v Speaker 4>want to see the movie, so I get to see
<v Speaker 4>a lot of these. Some may try to send me
<v Speaker 4>to bat I used to go and listen and like
<v Speaker 4>creep down the stairs and try to see what they're
<v Speaker 4>because I want to be part of whatever they're watching.
<v Speaker 4>And then somebody'll be like, oh, now I'm afraid to
<v Speaker 4>go back upstairs. But but Psycho, I saw it in
<v Speaker 4>its entirety, probably in about the age of eleven or twelve.
<v Speaker 4>For me, it was like I got the full effect
<v Speaker 4>of that movie, and I did not know it was him,
<v Speaker 4>and I was totally like, oh my god at the end.
<v Speaker 8>And Dennis, for you, the shower scene was doubly shocking
<v Speaker 8>because you'd never seen running water before.
<v Speaker 9>I thought you were going to say he'd never seen
<v Speaker 9>a naked woman.
<v Speaker 2>Before anyways, but is still okay.
<v Speaker 9>I know I saw this one. I think like maybe
<v Speaker 9>when I was in junior high but you don't understand
<v Speaker 9>a lot of what you're seeing at that age, right,
<v Speaker 9>and so it didn't have a lot of significance. Unlike
<v Speaker 9>d I have seen this movie many many times since then,
<v Speaker 9>so maybe like late high school or college. Is like
<v Speaker 9>when I finally sat down and watched it top to
<v Speaker 9>bottom and was like, okay, oh wow, oh that's really like,
<v Speaker 9>oh that's weird, that's crazy, that's bizarre.
<v Speaker 4>Well for me as a as a kid too, it
<v Speaker 4>was like going through the emotions of you know, when
<v Speaker 4>you're younger like that, you you know, here's the detective
<v Speaker 4>and he's going to save the day. So that's why
<v Speaker 4>I think that stair scene had a big impact on me,
<v Speaker 4>because it literally, like you said, comes out of nowhere.
<v Speaker 4>The amount of time i'd have to go back and
<v Speaker 4>see because I haven't seen it this week or whatever
<v Speaker 4>before this, But how quick it is that your hopes
<v Speaker 4>of him coming up, coming up and he's going to.
<v Speaker 2>Save the day.
<v Speaker 4>He's the cop, he's in the police, he's he's got
<v Speaker 4>a weapon, he's gonna he's gonna be able to save
<v Speaker 4>the day. This is where where it's all going to be.
<v Speaker 4>And then all of a sudden, boom, it's just boom,
<v Speaker 4>he's down, like not even a fight. There's no fight.
<v Speaker 4>And it was like deflating to you of like, oh
<v Speaker 4>my god that I actually thought at the end that
<v Speaker 4>that girl was going to get killed too.
<v Speaker 2>So when the guy comes and saves the day.
<v Speaker 4>You're like, oh my god, thank god, I can go
<v Speaker 4>to bed, you know, without having to worry about this
<v Speaker 4>because somebody caught him.
<v Speaker 5>You know, think about how the people who saw this
<v Speaker 5>movie in theaters for the first time Janet Lee, they
<v Speaker 5>think she's the main character.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, forty five minutes in what She's dead? What
<v Speaker 1>the heck? So we all had, you know, some sort
<v Speaker 1>of i've seen this clip experience.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 1>Even the previews for this movie before it came out,
<v Speaker 1>they didn't show any scenes from the movie. It was
<v Speaker 1>Alfred Hitchcock walking around the set and talking about, oh,
<v Speaker 1>this is a great scene that happens here and here
<v Speaker 1>we have but he refused to let anybody who wasn't
<v Speaker 1>involved in a particular scene know what was happening. He
<v Speaker 1>had a chair made up for the Missus Bates, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like everybody's got their own chair with their own name
<v Speaker 1>on it. There was a chair that said Missus Bates
<v Speaker 1>on there, so that not even everybody who was on
<v Speaker 1>the crew knew what would happen. He when he got
<v Speaker 1>the rights to the story, he went and bought all
<v Speaker 1>of the books that he could buy so that people
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't know how the book ended. And at that time,
<v Speaker 1>what was going on is that people would just wander
<v Speaker 1>in at any moment in the movie, And so he
<v Speaker 1>was like, what are we gonna do when somebody's thinking
<v Speaker 1>they're gonna see Janet Lee and they walk in the
<v Speaker 1>middle of this movie and they're like, where is she?
<v Speaker 1>And it's gonna spoil every I mean, there's surprise after
<v Speaker 1>surprise after surprise in this movie. Because you you start
<v Speaker 1>by watching it's like from Dust Till Dawn that you're
<v Speaker 1>talking about. You watch thinking you're going to see a
<v Speaker 1>Quentin Tarantino bank robbery movie, and all of a sudden
<v Speaker 1>there are vampires. You're watching a movie that you think
<v Speaker 1>is this girl who's decided to steal money and run away.
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly it turns into a murder movie. And then your
<v Speaker 1>interest in the character, right, You've you're like, well, she's dead,
<v Speaker 1>so now you're rooting for Norman Bates.
<v Speaker 3>Right.
<v Speaker 1>That's how they do it. They have that nice conversation
<v Speaker 1>so that you're you're like, well, I'm not rooting for
<v Speaker 1>her anymore. She's dead. I got a root for this
<v Speaker 1>guy because this poor guy's got to clean up after
<v Speaker 1>a psychopath mother upstairs. And so then it's a little
<v Speaker 1>bit later on that you go, oh, yeah, like the
<v Speaker 1>detective is gonna fix everything, He's gonna solve it. Oh nope,
<v Speaker 1>he's dead too. And then a little bit later on
<v Speaker 1>you get them talking to the sheriff and he's like
<v Speaker 1>his mother, his mother died ten years ago, and you're like, what,
<v Speaker 1>how did that? And then there's another mystery, a brand
<v Speaker 1>new mystery seventy nine percent into the movie that you go,
<v Speaker 1>what how is she dead? Who is this other person?
<v Speaker 1>What's going on? And it's not until you get that
<v Speaker 1>reveal where you the chair turns around.
<v Speaker 4>Is she really dead? Yeah, yeah, she's not really dead.
<v Speaker 4>She's over here, so.
<v Speaker 1>Though, and then even and then he comes out dressed
<v Speaker 1>as her, which is shocking in and of itself and
<v Speaker 1>a little bit funny. I just got to say, Anthony
<v Speaker 1>Perkins in the dress is a little comical, but his
<v Speaker 1>weird face.
<v Speaker 10>And then and then you have that whole psychological explanation
<v Speaker 10>that happens at the end that you're just like, Wow,
<v Speaker 10>he's not even him, he's her, He's been her the
<v Speaker 10>whole time.
<v Speaker 1>And then you get that great that last moment. You know,
<v Speaker 1>she wouldn't even hurt a fly, and he's looking up
<v Speaker 1>at the camera and he's just he goes from he
<v Speaker 1>looked like, who is that Andrew Garfield? Like when I
<v Speaker 1>saw this, I'm thinking, oh, this is a sweet looking,
<v Speaker 1>nice looking man. He looks like Andrew Garfield. Right, he
<v Speaker 1>looks like a very kid you'd let mow your yard
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. Right, And he moves in that last little
<v Speaker 1>moment of the movie into the psycho.
<v Speaker 5>I caught this for the first time ever. There's just
<v Speaker 5>a hint of a dissolve on his face.
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, it's like a skull that starts showing through. I
<v Speaker 9>think it's yeah, mother, yep, it's very fast. Yeah, if
<v Speaker 9>you blink, you're not going to see it right right
<v Speaker 9>at the very end. And to me, that that ending
<v Speaker 9>is one of the things that stands out about this
<v Speaker 9>movie is how unresolved everything really is. And you can
<v Speaker 9>kind of say it circles back to m what do
<v Speaker 9>you do with this part of society? It almost takes
<v Speaker 9>me back to the end of Clockwork Orange. You know,
<v Speaker 9>if you guys haven't seen that, but you know you
<v Speaker 9>have Alexander de Large and camera zooms in what's the
<v Speaker 9>last thing? He says? They cured me?
<v Speaker 3>All right?
<v Speaker 9>And you know that that's absolutely not the thing that happened.
<v Speaker 9>I get that same sense watching Psycho what status is
<v Speaker 9>he going forward? And then you get the you know,
<v Speaker 9>eventually you get Psycho two and Psycho three.
<v Speaker 8>Well, I think with all three of the movies that
<v Speaker 8>we're talking about tonight, that's just that's the mark of
<v Speaker 8>a good horror movie is it's not going to resolve
<v Speaker 8>it's not going to resolve the suspense, or it's not
<v Speaker 8>going to resolve the terror for you. You're left. Each
<v Speaker 8>of these m left open ended, You've got to figure
<v Speaker 8>out for yourself what path are they going to take?
<v Speaker 8>You know, this one leaves it with that fading out
<v Speaker 8>from his you know, just his eyes staring straight ahead
<v Speaker 8>and then silence of the lambs. Is okay, so you
<v Speaker 8>caught Buffalo Bill, but look what you let loose in
<v Speaker 8>the process of catching Buffalo Bill. Was it worth it?
<v Speaker 8>Or did you unleash somebody who could be way worse?
<v Speaker 8>I know, he says he's having an old friend for dinner,
<v Speaker 8>but you know, at least somebody that could be way
<v Speaker 8>worse than a buffalo Bill, because he's The creepy thing
<v Speaker 8>about him is he's smart and he's seems a little
<v Speaker 8>bit more under control than Buffalo Bill was. So I
<v Speaker 8>think that's one of the things about each of these
<v Speaker 8>three movies that is just a sign of a good
<v Speaker 8>horror movie is it's not going to give you a
<v Speaker 8>clear resolution at the end. It's gonna leave it open
<v Speaker 8>so that when you leave the theater you're like, oh, well,
<v Speaker 8>the threat's not actually gone.
<v Speaker 4>One really quick connection to to another movie, and this
<v Speaker 4>is Wes Craven just paying tribute to this is when
<v Speaker 4>we talked about early exits for people I remember having
<v Speaker 4>the same sort of feeling when watching his Scream for
<v Speaker 4>the first time with Drew Barrymore. I'm like, Drew Barrymore
<v Speaker 4>is in this movie, She's gonna be the star, and
<v Speaker 4>all of a sudden, then when you see her actually
<v Speaker 4>get killed, I'm like, wait a second, Like what just
<v Speaker 4>happened Like five minutes into the movie and Drew Barrymore
<v Speaker 4>is dead.
<v Speaker 2>How is that possible?
<v Speaker 4>She's the big star, you know, because I don't think
<v Speaker 4>the other girl at the time was very I mean,
<v Speaker 4>she might have been in TV shows, but Drew Barrymore
<v Speaker 4>was the bigger name to me, and all of a
<v Speaker 4>sudden she's gone. But I think Wes Craven was doing
<v Speaker 4>this almost as a you don't know what's gonna happen
<v Speaker 4>for the rest of this movie and who's gonna get killed?
<v Speaker 2>You know that no one is safe.
<v Speaker 4>It's not like you know that like you know, It's
<v Speaker 4>one of the things about Star Trek for me was
<v Speaker 4>you know who was.
<v Speaker 2>Gonna get killed.
<v Speaker 4>It's how it's gonna be that other guy who comes
<v Speaker 4>down with him to the plane. It's not gonna be
<v Speaker 4>one of the main characters.
<v Speaker 1>Bones and that other dude.
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, do you guys know, like the story about what
<v Speaker 8>Hitchcock tried to do to keep people from getting spoiled
<v Speaker 8>on the surprise of the movie, like especially going to
<v Speaker 8>kill your main character.
<v Speaker 9>Early on, he instituted a no entry policy in theaters,
<v Speaker 9>so after the film started, he made sure that movie
<v Speaker 9>theaters were not allowing people into the movie.
<v Speaker 5>I've suggested that Psycho be seen from the beginning.
<v Speaker 3>In fact, this is more than a suggestion.
<v Speaker 11>It is required.
<v Speaker 3>And here is what Broadway saw. No one, but no
<v Speaker 3>one will be admitted to the theater after the start
<v Speaker 3>of each performance of Psycho. The audience had been sold
<v Speaker 3>this concept. With it, they were sold on Psycho. Mister
<v Speaker 3>Hitchcock tells you as he told them. Why this, of course,
<v Speaker 3>is to help you enjoy Psycho more.
<v Speaker 11>We really have only your enjoyment in mind.
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, sorry, that was the start. Time you missed it.
<v Speaker 9>Come to the next showing.
<v Speaker 8>Which which supposedly is the start of movie showtimes. Like
<v Speaker 8>before that, it was, you just run your movie on
<v Speaker 8>a loop and people just buy a ticket come in.
<v Speaker 8>You could stay as long as you wanted to. If
<v Speaker 8>you came in and you missed the first thirty minutes
<v Speaker 8>of the movie. Well, well, I'll stay and watch the
<v Speaker 8>rest of the movie, and then I'll stay for the
<v Speaker 8>first thirty minutes and then I'll leave. So you might
<v Speaker 8>see stuff out of order just because the movies would
<v Speaker 8>keep running and running. And he's like, that didn't work
<v Speaker 8>for me. I am demanding that you have start times
<v Speaker 8>for these showings and that you do not let people
<v Speaker 8>in after that start time has commenced, And I guess
<v Speaker 8>there was a lot of pushback from the theaters. But
<v Speaker 8>then when this was so popular, the theaters all of
<v Speaker 8>a sudden were like, hey, we make people pay per
<v Speaker 8>showing as opposed to just buy a ticket and sit
<v Speaker 8>here all day if you want to. We can actually
<v Speaker 8>make more money that way. So that was I don't
<v Speaker 8>know if it's the first movie that ever did specific
<v Speaker 8>show times, but it's probably the most famous one.
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome.
<v Speaker 5>I love that marketing campaign, and it really paid off
<v Speaker 5>because the people lined up around the block. But it
<v Speaker 5>was like, not the president of the United States, not
<v Speaker 5>the brother of the theater owner, not the Queen of England,
<v Speaker 5>nobody gets in after the movie starts.
<v Speaker 6>I want to say that the soundtrack show, when they
<v Speaker 6>talked about Psycho I think David W. Collins told the
<v Speaker 6>story that there was someone that was like, yep.
<v Speaker 7>Sorry, you're not getting in.
<v Speaker 1>It's pregnant, Yeah, pregnant lady who they're trying to think.
<v Speaker 1>The guy was like, my wife is just pregnant and
<v Speaker 1>that's why she's late, and the theater manager was like,
<v Speaker 1>I'm really sorry, but she can sit in my office
<v Speaker 1>until the next showing happens. And like you said, what
<v Speaker 1>resulted was people waited in line because if you can't
<v Speaker 1>go in whenever you want to, you've got to wait
<v Speaker 1>for a specific time. So you got lines out of
<v Speaker 1>the theater to watch this movie, which made everyone else
<v Speaker 1>interested in what was going on. And then as they're
<v Speaker 1>waiting in line to go in, you've got people coming
<v Speaker 1>out of the theater like they've just been on a
<v Speaker 1>roller coaster ride, who were laughing and crying and like
<v Speaker 1>that was the most amazing thing I've ever seen, which
<v Speaker 1>just gave fuel to the fire.
<v Speaker 11>Right.
<v Speaker 5>You know, we talked a little bit about the shower scene.
<v Speaker 5>The blood in the water was not red.
<v Speaker 1>That's my trivia question. I'm sorry, no, no, go ahead,
<v Speaker 1>go ahead, It was not red. Go ahead because it's
<v Speaker 1>black and white.
<v Speaker 5>So a black and white movie they used.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, who knows what they used?
<v Speaker 9>Chocolate sauce right.
<v Speaker 1>Yep, Bosco's chocolate syrup yep, which you can still buy.
<v Speaker 6>By the way, I just want to say I'm sorry,
<v Speaker 6>Go ahead.
<v Speaker 7>I didn't mean to interrupt.
<v Speaker 1>Oh go ahead.
<v Speaker 5>You were you were rolling, man, some of thee was
<v Speaker 5>going right there.
<v Speaker 6>Well, I was just saying I would like to go
<v Speaker 6>back and have a throwback day at the theaters where
<v Speaker 6>you can go in sort of like when video game arcades.
<v Speaker 7>Kids look them up. Video game arcades great places of wonderment,
<v Speaker 7>but like.
<v Speaker 6>When you could go into the video game arcade and
<v Speaker 6>you'd pay like five bucks and everything was free play
<v Speaker 6>for like five hours or something like, I would love
<v Speaker 6>to have throwback day.
<v Speaker 7>Were you just going to the theater? Here's my five bucks.
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I just see any movie you want, Walk into
<v Speaker 6>this one, walk into that one. I'm telling you, man,
<v Speaker 6>that'd be sweet. And I'm just saying if they had
<v Speaker 6>that back in the day when the Matrix came out, Like,
<v Speaker 6>I sank an entire year's worth of college tuition in
<v Speaker 6>one week into buying tickets to rewatch the Matrix. So
<v Speaker 6>I'm just saying like that could have that could have
<v Speaker 6>like set me up. You know what I'm saying, throwback
<v Speaker 6>day five bucks, see whatever movie you want.
<v Speaker 9>You mean, when you go to the movies, you actually
<v Speaker 9>only go to one movie.
<v Speaker 6>So this podcast is going out to the public, chef,
<v Speaker 6>and I'm just saying I'm.
<v Speaker 9>Not admitting anything. I was just clarifying. So I understand
<v Speaker 9>you know what it is that I can support you
<v Speaker 9>in your dream.
<v Speaker 2>That's all you.
<v Speaker 8>Can support asking a clarifying question.
<v Speaker 7>I see, yes, Okay, me too, Okay.
<v Speaker 1>Good, okay. One more thing on the shower scene. So
<v Speaker 1>he sent it expecting him to say something about the
<v Speaker 1>nooner scene at the beginning that censors said nothing about
<v Speaker 1>the nooner scene, or almost nothing. And then for the
<v Speaker 1>shower scene, three of the five said we see nudity,
<v Speaker 1>and the other two said we don't see nudity. And
<v Speaker 1>then they're like, well, what do we do and they decided, okay,
<v Speaker 1>well let's send it back to him and say you
<v Speaker 1>need to take the nudity out. And so he took
<v Speaker 1>it out of the can and then he put it
<v Speaker 1>back into the can, sug it up a little bit,
<v Speaker 1>gave it back and the three that saw it before,
<v Speaker 1>didn't see it, but now the two that didn't see
<v Speaker 1>it now saw it, and they said they sent it
<v Speaker 1>back again, said take the nudity out. He said, okay,
<v Speaker 1>did the same little shaky shake process, sends it back
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, all right, thank you.
<v Speaker 6>I could just I could just imagine like five dudes
<v Speaker 6>like sitting around just being like, all right, hang.
<v Speaker 1>On, go back, okay, all right, I was right there.
<v Speaker 8>Okay, one frame forward, that's it.
<v Speaker 7>That's it. Sorry, you're out, And then the other guys
<v Speaker 7>are you sure? I don't think so.
<v Speaker 5>You basically describe me and my friends in high school.
<v Speaker 9>They would love past times at Richmond High.
<v Speaker 1>So, because he knew jantly he would be uncomfortable both
<v Speaker 1>trying to act and being naked at the same time,
<v Speaker 1>he went to a local strip club and got one
<v Speaker 1>of the burlesque dancers who's used to being naked all
<v Speaker 1>the time, to come and be the body double for gently.
<v Speaker 9>I thought they were going to say he's stripped down
<v Speaker 9>naked as well. That'd make everyone uncomfortable.
<v Speaker 4>That would have been the worst cameo for him. Do
<v Speaker 4>you know that he does like the cameos. He's famous
<v Speaker 4>for the cameos.
<v Speaker 7>Right, educate me, man, I mean, yeah.
<v Speaker 4>So one of the fun things I remember as a
<v Speaker 4>kid was trying to find like in all of his films,
<v Speaker 4>because my dad would be like, he's gonna be in
<v Speaker 4>everyone but for a second, and he'd be trying to
<v Speaker 4>look for him in all the film, and this one
<v Speaker 4>he's in it. In this first six minutes, he's outside
<v Speaker 4>her office. He's got a cowboy hats that's him, and birds,
<v Speaker 4>I remember. I think he walks out of the store.
<v Speaker 4>So he would have little cameos, kind of a little
<v Speaker 4>bit like what's his name from? From the mar Family,
<v Speaker 4>you know, where he's somewhere in the movie. He always
<v Speaker 4>has lines though where he didn't usually have lines. He
<v Speaker 4>just was there somewhere walking past in the back, and
<v Speaker 4>it's always like, there he is, there's Alfred.
<v Speaker 1>Scot Okay, So now moving on to Silence of the
<v Speaker 1>Lambs first scene. Okay, so I will tell you this.
<v Speaker 1>I didn't it's been a long time since I've seen
<v Speaker 1>Silence of the Lambs. When I saw it the first time,
<v Speaker 1>I guess I was probably put off or something. I didn't,
<v Speaker 1>you know, the tucking scene. I wasn't emotionally ready for
<v Speaker 1>it that moment, so I probably didn't like it as
<v Speaker 1>much when I first saw it, but without saying that,
<v Speaker 1>I like the tucking scene now to keep on going here,
<v Speaker 1>I noticed something at the beginning that I had not
<v Speaker 1>noticed before, because I don't think I knew it before.
<v Speaker 1>But when I was in college, I got a book
<v Speaker 1>called The Five Seeds of Cinematography, and one of the
<v Speaker 1>first things that it talks about in that book is
<v Speaker 1>that the actor should never look directly in the camera
<v Speaker 1>unless you want the audience to be unsettled. And my gosh,
<v Speaker 1>it was like every character of any importance did it
<v Speaker 1>in the first ten minutes of this movie, especially, and
<v Speaker 1>the worst of them all was doctor what's his name,
<v Speaker 1>the psychiatrist who is in charge of the chiltern. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>doctor Chilton, thank you. He not only looked right in
<v Speaker 1>the camera, you could see the slimy uzy he was
<v Speaker 1>hitting on you.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>It was gross, Like he's not hitting on her, he's
<v Speaker 1>hitting on me. Obviously Chilton did it, and her boss
<v Speaker 1>did it before that. He was looking right into the camera.
<v Speaker 1>And then, of course the next very important guy to see,
<v Speaker 1>Hannibal Lecter, is looking right through you.
<v Speaker 2>Jack crawfor senter.
<v Speaker 12>Trainy to me, Yes, I'm a stuned I'm here to
<v Speaker 12>learn from you. Maybe you can decide for yourself whether
<v Speaker 12>or not I'm qualified enough to do that.
<v Speaker 1>That is rather slippery of you. Agent's Darning said, please.
<v Speaker 9>Is Hannibal Lecter the only character where they do the
<v Speaker 9>extreme close up of the eyes, because there are a
<v Speaker 9>couple shots of Hannibal Lecter where you see just like
<v Speaker 9>from bridge of nose to just above eyebrow, and you.
<v Speaker 5>Got bethalo Bill at the end with the night vision
<v Speaker 5>goggles pretty tight too.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, when she's walking through the cell for the first time,
<v Speaker 1>you've got the guy who's saying that he could sniff her,
<v Speaker 1>smell her, and they're all in regular barred cells. But
<v Speaker 1>when she gets in in front of Hannibal, he's got
<v Speaker 1>the plexiglass thing up. The reason that they did that
<v Speaker 1>was because they couldn't figure out how to shoot the
<v Speaker 1>shots through the bars without covering up all of Anthony
<v Speaker 1>Hopkins face and so like their set designer was just
<v Speaker 1>at the bank one day and she's like, why don't
<v Speaker 1>I just use like the plexiglass that they use here
<v Speaker 1>at the bank. As you know, this is the feature.
<v Speaker 1>Then the sound guy was like, well, because we won't
<v Speaker 1>be able to hear what he says, and she's like, well,
<v Speaker 1>we'll put holes in it, because he's got to be
<v Speaker 1>able to breathe, right, And so that's the reason that
<v Speaker 1>they have the plexiglass. Now fast forward, they take him
<v Speaker 1>out of that cell so that he can go talk
<v Speaker 1>to the senator and put him in a cell with bars,
<v Speaker 1>and that's the point that he's really getting into her mind, right,
<v Speaker 1>He's really getting in there and trying to control what
<v Speaker 1>she's thinking and feeling. And it's at that point you
<v Speaker 1>got those bars. You have to do that extreme close up,
<v Speaker 1>otherwise the bars are in the way. But it works
<v Speaker 1>perfectly because as he's staring into her soul, he's also
<v Speaker 1>staring into your soul. Yeah, is, so, what did you
<v Speaker 1>guys think of first scenes?
<v Speaker 5>To me, the first real scene is when Starling and
<v Speaker 5>Lecter meet. That kind of gets the movie kicked off.
<v Speaker 5>You're dropped in the depths with these guys and you realize, man,
<v Speaker 5>these guys are the worst of the worst, and she's
<v Speaker 5>got to hang out with this guy to figure out
<v Speaker 5>what's going on. The best scene for me is Lecture's
<v Speaker 5>ultimate escape from the courthouse in Memphis in the Ambulance.
<v Speaker 5>And when I saw that in the movie theater, I
<v Speaker 5>couldn't figure out what was going on.
<v Speaker 1>Who is what he shot?
<v Speaker 5>He got shot?
<v Speaker 1>He's on top of the elevator.
<v Speaker 5>No, that's not what and then he when he pulls
<v Speaker 5>off that face, I was like, whoa, I'm blown away.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The intercut that they did on that was fantastic.
<v Speaker 1>I think it is only topped by the inner cut
<v Speaker 1>of the FBI storming a house and ringing a bell
<v Speaker 1>that just happens to be coinciding exactly with when Starling
<v Speaker 1>is coming and ringing the bell of Buffalo Bill. That
<v Speaker 1>was a dirty trick. It was a dirty trick and
<v Speaker 1>it was effective and I liked it a lot. Yeah.
<v Speaker 9>Well, so circle back with d what you were saying
<v Speaker 9>about how they did the using the plexiglass. I always
<v Speaker 9>thought that and maybe this was just a bonus for
<v Speaker 9>the filmmakers. Right here she is walking down this corridor
<v Speaker 9>with the worst of the worst of the worst, and
<v Speaker 9>they're all behind bars, and like, what could be worse
<v Speaker 9>than that? You need something other than bars to hold
<v Speaker 9>him back? Right, Like, this guy is that bad that
<v Speaker 9>he gets plexi glass. They can't even risk having him
<v Speaker 9>behind bars. He needs a whole other type of containment.
<v Speaker 9>Even still watching now, every time they use that drawer
<v Speaker 9>that they to transport things in and out of his
<v Speaker 9>plexiglass cell, you know, the drawer shoots out and you
<v Speaker 9>know that she needs to put something in or she
<v Speaker 9>needs to take something out, and he's like, she's gonna
<v Speaker 9>put her hand in there, and he's going to pull
<v Speaker 9>that drawer back right away and just pop her hand
<v Speaker 9>right off at the wrist. That is incredibly effective. But
<v Speaker 9>in terms of a favorite scene for me, there are
<v Speaker 9>so many scenes that are so well done in this movie.
<v Speaker 9>You know, Jason, I agree with you. The Revealed and
<v Speaker 9>the ambulance. You know, when all of a sudden you
<v Speaker 9>start putting the pieces together in your brain. For me,
<v Speaker 9>it's almost faster than my brain can process all of it.
<v Speaker 9>I get what's going on, but I don't understand what's
<v Speaker 9>going on, And then like I need a minute to
<v Speaker 9>think about don't realize how evil he is, how incredibly
<v Speaker 9>brilliant he is, how much he doesn't give you know,
<v Speaker 9>a flying rip about Buffalo Bill. From minute one, he
<v Speaker 9>recognizes this is this is his opportunity to escape. That's it,
<v Speaker 9>you know, that's his whole endgame. It doesn't Buffalo Bill
<v Speaker 9>or anybody else. That doesn't matter. He's smart enough to
<v Speaker 9>know I play the game and I'm out of here. Yeah,
<v Speaker 9>you know. And even the way it wraps up with
<v Speaker 9>Clarice on the phone, doctor Lecter, doctor Lecter, Doctor Lecter,
<v Speaker 9>doctor Lecter, and then you just watch him literally fade away,
<v Speaker 9>disappear under this crowd of people, and he was like,
<v Speaker 9>what in God's name? How?
<v Speaker 2>What?
<v Speaker 3>Where? When? Who?
<v Speaker 9>Like it's crazy, it's absolutely crazy. But there's so many
<v Speaker 9>of those in this movie that just it's like a
<v Speaker 9>gut punch AND's like, oh, I didn't see that coming,
<v Speaker 9>or holy smokes, I was just like high tension, high anxiety,
<v Speaker 9>right like top to bottom.
<v Speaker 3>So good that I can.
<v Speaker 8>Think of when you were repeating what Clarice, when she's
<v Speaker 8>saying doctor lecter on the phone at the end, all
<v Speaker 8>I could think I was back into the lecter, back
<v Speaker 8>into the lecter, back into the elect That's the same
<v Speaker 8>accent as basically the same accent for me. I think
<v Speaker 8>one of the I've got a couple of different thoughts
<v Speaker 8>on like favorite scenes. I love the tension of the
<v Speaker 8>scene towards the end when he's got the night vision
<v Speaker 8>goggles on. Just I mean, just you're you're watching this,
<v Speaker 8>and I wish there's been a few movies I've been
<v Speaker 8>able to see when they put him back in the
<v Speaker 8>theater again. I would love to go see this movie
<v Speaker 8>in a movie theater and just be in a theater
<v Speaker 8>with other people, huge screen, dark theater, and I just
<v Speaker 8>want to hear people holding their breath during that entire
<v Speaker 8>sequence with the night vision when he's just he's reaching
<v Speaker 8>forward and it's just he's just barely about to touch
<v Speaker 8>her face and he pulls away or she moves and
<v Speaker 8>he doesn't quite touch her, but he's just so close
<v Speaker 8>and he's just so creepy and so tense that that
<v Speaker 8>is one of my favorite scenes of the movie. The
<v Speaker 8>other option I have for favorite scenes is any time
<v Speaker 8>that Anthony Hopkins opens his mouth, like anyone he says
<v Speaker 8>anything in this movie, I could I'll just sit there.
<v Speaker 8>I know he's a serial killer, I know he eats people,
<v Speaker 8>but it just I want to listen to him talk
<v Speaker 8>and just I love the way that he just twists everything.
<v Speaker 8>One of my favorites in particular just and the way
<v Speaker 8>the other people react to him too, is the scene
<v Speaker 8>where they've got him in the airplane hangar and they're
<v Speaker 8>trying to get the information out of him, and he
<v Speaker 8>starts with that whole thing, tell me, senator, did you
<v Speaker 8>nurse Catherine yourself? Did your breastfeed her? And he's like
<v Speaker 8>going into all this stuff and she's like, what are
<v Speaker 8>you even talking about. He's like amputato man's leg and
<v Speaker 8>he can still feel it tickling. Tell me, mom, when
<v Speaker 8>your little girl is on the slab, where will it
<v Speaker 8>tickle you? And then it just and then they start
<v Speaker 8>to put him away and then he just unleashes and
<v Speaker 8>he's like, all right, well, this is how tall he
<v Speaker 8>is and this is how much he weighs. And then
<v Speaker 8>at the end, I love the final comment at the end,
<v Speaker 8>he's like, and I but if I think of any more,
<v Speaker 8>I'll let you know. Oh and Senator, just one more thing.
<v Speaker 8>Love your suit. Yeah, I'm just like, huh, Like I
<v Speaker 8>even just got chills just now thinking about it. I'm like,
<v Speaker 8>it's just so weird and twisted and just so creepy.
<v Speaker 8>And he does such a good job of delivering every
<v Speaker 8>single line in the movie.
<v Speaker 9>The interaction between he and the Senator. That's not the
<v Speaker 9>same love, same connection that he has with Clarice, which
<v Speaker 9>is why when he's like, when he's like that with
<v Speaker 9>the Senator, it's completely unnerving. Yeah, you think you under
<v Speaker 9>as much as you can possibly understand a serial killer.
<v Speaker 9>You think you understand him after he's had a couple
<v Speaker 9>of visits with Clarice, and then all of a sudden,
<v Speaker 9>you really see the depths of his strangeness when he's
<v Speaker 9>with the Senator, and you're just like, oh.
<v Speaker 8>God, as much as you think a reptile could care
<v Speaker 8>for someone, he seems to have at least a little
<v Speaker 8>bit of maybe not care, but consideration for Clarice, because
<v Speaker 8>he gets upset when you know, when Miggs, you know,
<v Speaker 8>does what he does, and he gets upset because it's rude.
<v Speaker 8>And I don't know if it's a case of like
<v Speaker 8>him actually caring for or considering Clarice, but he just
<v Speaker 8>he doesn't like the rudeness of what just happened. But
<v Speaker 8>when you get to that, you're right, it's like there's
<v Speaker 8>a complete disdain, Like these creatures in front of me
<v Speaker 8>are not even human, Like I am so fi I'm
<v Speaker 8>on a completely different plane of existence. I have no respect,
<v Speaker 8>no consideration to give for any of these meat sacks.
<v Speaker 1>But he's so he's so poised and so intelligent, and
<v Speaker 1>there's so little violence throughout the whole movie that the
<v Speaker 1>one scene, the one scene where he unlocks his cuffs
<v Speaker 1>and he attacks the two elice officers is shocking. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>you're just all of a sudden, you're just like, oh,
<v Speaker 1>he just whipped that guy with his own nightstick and
<v Speaker 1>blood is just and he's still just i mean, almost
<v Speaker 1>expressionless as he's doing it, but it's just so ultra violent,
<v Speaker 1>so bad. And then bites biting the face of the
<v Speaker 1>other guy. You see the horror, and they had to
<v Speaker 1>have that kind of gore, which I don't typically care
<v Speaker 1>for in movies. But it's just it's like Aliens. It's
<v Speaker 1>like we talked about, you know, you've you've got almost
<v Speaker 1>the entire movie of No Blood, but that one scene
<v Speaker 1>when it happens boys and impactful.
<v Speaker 4>You still he covered exactly what I was gonna say.
<v Speaker 4>Is like one of my favorite scenes is with the
<v Speaker 4>two because as people are talking about when she was
<v Speaker 4>going through and you saw all the people behind the
<v Speaker 4>bars and everything else, I remember, like some of you
<v Speaker 4>guys are saying, like when he got to hear like
<v Speaker 4>I think it was Jeff saying like, oh boy, how
<v Speaker 4>evil is the beat that he's behind plexiglass? And maybe
<v Speaker 4>that's the initial thing, but somehow I felt like she
<v Speaker 4>was safer getting through the bars and all those guys,
<v Speaker 4>those creepy, weird guys who were just shouting stuff at her.
<v Speaker 4>And you got to this guy who's talking intelligent, who's calm,
<v Speaker 4>who's intelligent, and you're just thinking he's sort of like
<v Speaker 4>her friend in a way, but he's not. You know,
<v Speaker 4>he's got some evil stuff behind him. But they lull
<v Speaker 4>you into this cerebral sort of it's a psychological sort
<v Speaker 4>of intelligence that he has that just is like puts
<v Speaker 4>you almost at a little bit disarming, like he's not
<v Speaker 4>an animal.
<v Speaker 2>And when he.
<v Speaker 4>Comes out at the end and he does attack those
<v Speaker 4>two officers, it goes from being a cerebral villain to
<v Speaker 4>like a physical animal, like he has an animal at
<v Speaker 4>that point, utterly evil and you see what you didn't
<v Speaker 4>see almost that you you almost in a sense of
<v Speaker 4>like always.
<v Speaker 2>Helping her out.
<v Speaker 4>And I thought he liked her all the time, like
<v Speaker 4>like he like and not a maybe genuine way. I'm
<v Speaker 4>not sure if Johnny were trying to say that, but
<v Speaker 4>like like if he cared about her really, but or
<v Speaker 4>more as like, here's a chess apprentice that you know,
<v Speaker 4>I'm playing this kind of psychological sparring with and no
<v Speaker 4>one else messes with her because she's kind of mine
<v Speaker 4>and I'm protecting her. And to a certain degree I
<v Speaker 4>felt like he kind of did care about her. But
<v Speaker 4>then it was like when you see the animal part
<v Speaker 4>come out in that scene, that is like it is
<v Speaker 4>ultimately that transition that everything else sets up. It's intelligent,
<v Speaker 4>he's smart, he's calm. You know, there's parts where she
<v Speaker 4>almost gets him to lose his coold, but that the
<v Speaker 4>animal never comes out, and right there the animal is
<v Speaker 4>unleashed and literally like with almost like just bloody teeth.
<v Speaker 2>It's just you now have a full fledged animal, and
<v Speaker 2>you realize.
<v Speaker 4>What he's capable of when he like transforms, kind of
<v Speaker 4>like in m Night Sham Wants with the guy who's like,
<v Speaker 4>you know, playing the cycle, what's the one a bunch
<v Speaker 4>of care? Yeah, split, you know, when that monster comes out,
<v Speaker 4>it's like, now there's this evil thing versus the you know,
<v Speaker 4>the regular characters that were there, and you see that
<v Speaker 4>transition happen and that scene very quickly, and you are
<v Speaker 4>you're shot by it.
<v Speaker 9>Well, and it's underscored by whatever that music is playing
<v Speaker 9>on the cassette too, right, it's a classical piece, which
<v Speaker 9>is it's just another level of unnerving because that's not
<v Speaker 9>the music that you would associate with that type of attack.
<v Speaker 9>You know, it's like to go back to clockwork Orange
<v Speaker 9>when you know, when when Alexander and his his buddies
<v Speaker 9>are doing singing singing in the rain while they're what
<v Speaker 9>isn't that the rape scene? Yeah, Like it's you're just like,
<v Speaker 9>I can't. I don't want to process this. I don't
<v Speaker 9>want to connect these two things, but this movie is
<v Speaker 9>forcing me to do that.
<v Speaker 4>Another it's more of a shot, but it's I guess
<v Speaker 4>the whole scene with the lotion. But to me, it's
<v Speaker 4>the shot of the fingernail in the walls. Always been
<v Speaker 4>in the wall. It's been un settling to me because
<v Speaker 4>then you just like there's a certain dread that I
<v Speaker 4>remember when I first saw that when they kind of
<v Speaker 4>they zoom in on it and you see that fingernail
<v Speaker 4>and it may you think of everything that's happened to
<v Speaker 4>that point in there. There's nothing like a fingernail, bloody
<v Speaker 4>fingernail in a wall and you just without having seen it.
<v Speaker 4>Like you said, they don't show everything but the amount
<v Speaker 4>of horrific violence and desperation of somebody in that pit,
<v Speaker 4>you know, literally trying to clow their way out of
<v Speaker 4>something to the point that their fingernails are on the
<v Speaker 4>wall and blood.
<v Speaker 9>Would that be kind of a Hitchcockian move. I'm going
<v Speaker 9>to plant the seeds and let your brain do the
<v Speaker 9>rest of.
<v Speaker 2>The rest of the work.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I think all I think, And that's where
<v Speaker 4>I think we go back to when we first start
<v Speaker 4>talking about slasher films and what we like. I think
<v Speaker 4>you like the intelligent thing, and you don't show the bloody,
<v Speaker 4>you know. I used to try to tell this to
<v Speaker 4>kids when I was doing my film class. Was they
<v Speaker 4>would always try to do a trailer or something that
<v Speaker 4>was scary, and they want to show can we do notice?
<v Speaker 4>And I'm like, it's it's not. It's a psycho killer
<v Speaker 4>coming and stabbing a bunch of people and seeing everything
<v Speaker 4>is not always the most scary thing. It's always the setup.
<v Speaker 4>It's the unknown. It's what you don't see. It's that
<v Speaker 4>because we've all been there before. I've never been in
<v Speaker 4>a situation, God forbid, luckily that some cycles coming at
<v Speaker 4>me with a knife and trying to stab me.
<v Speaker 9>We'll be there in thirty five minutes.
<v Speaker 4>We've all been in a place where we've heard a
<v Speaker 4>creek at night.
<v Speaker 5>Fritz Lang did that in m You don't see any
<v Speaker 5>violence in them.
<v Speaker 9>So instead of saying it's hitchcockey and it's what, it's Lingian.
<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe there you go. Britz Lang's quote was when
<v Speaker 1>he was talking about no acts of violence or deaths
<v Speaker 1>being on screen. He says he forced each individual member
<v Speaker 1>of the audience to create the gruesome details of the
<v Speaker 1>murder according to their own imaginations. And that's the most
<v Speaker 1>effective way to do it. That's smart.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why.
<v Speaker 4>And again you see how all these people, all these geniuses,
<v Speaker 4>learn from each other and stuff particular incorporating a lot
<v Speaker 4>of the same things and going back to again, Rod
<v Speaker 4>Serling is one of my favorite you know, teleplay screenplay writers.
<v Speaker 4>Was when I when I show it in class and
<v Speaker 4>I think, Pat, you probably maybe walked in, John, maybe
<v Speaker 4>you walked in. At times when I would show my
<v Speaker 4>sixth graders that I had the beholder with the mask
<v Speaker 4>and the bandages around the face and they're talking. When
<v Speaker 4>they start to unwrap and they're going around it was
<v Speaker 4>a fishbowl with a camera, you know, and they're showing
<v Speaker 4>the light coming. I have kids literally like covering their eyes,
<v Speaker 4>freaking out, asking if they could leave the room. Literally,
<v Speaker 4>like the anxiety intension is like unbelievable that when the
<v Speaker 4>reveal is there and it's what's your name from the
<v Speaker 4>Beverly Hillbillies and they're like.
<v Speaker 2>What, I don't what you know?
<v Speaker 4>But they created the language in there helps you create,
<v Speaker 4>and then your mind, you're creating this horrific monster face
<v Speaker 4>that's going to be there, and it's worse than what
<v Speaker 4>actually any director almost can do because they're letting you,
<v Speaker 4>you know, like like what they could show you is
<v Speaker 4>that you've created the monster in your head, just like
<v Speaker 4>he's saying, you've created all that and your imagination is
<v Speaker 4>going to be ten times worse than probably anything they
<v Speaker 4>could do with a special effect.
<v Speaker 8>That's one of the things I really like about Silence
<v Speaker 8>of the Lambs is that the first time I saw
<v Speaker 8>Silence of Lambs, I already knew a few like facts
<v Speaker 8>or details about that movie. I was like, Oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 8>it's the hannibal elector. The guy's a cannibal. And then
<v Speaker 8>I watched the movie and I was like, wait a minute,
<v Speaker 8>so he's not the well he is the villain, but
<v Speaker 8>he's not the one they're trying to stop. All right, Well,
<v Speaker 8>that's that's weird. That seems like you'd think that would
<v Speaker 8>be your villain, Like he's the one that should be
<v Speaker 8>committing the crime they're trying to track down they're trying
<v Speaker 8>to stop. And I think that's one of the best
<v Speaker 8>things about that movie is you are left until you
<v Speaker 8>get to that scene where he starts eating the guy's
<v Speaker 8>face and breaks out of his handcuffs and everything else.
<v Speaker 8>You are just left to imagine what could be so
<v Speaker 8>bad that this guy is in this type of cell
<v Speaker 8>and he's there this careful around him, and it's just
<v Speaker 8>it's left up to your imagination. Is what in the
<v Speaker 8>world could Hannibal the Cannibal Lecter have done to be
<v Speaker 8>considered this dangerous?
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I got a couple of tidbits for you real quick.
<v Speaker 5>The guy in the airplane hangar who when he asked
<v Speaker 5>her if she breastfed Catherine. The guy who gets upset.
<v Speaker 5>That character's name is Paul Krinler. He actually shows up
<v Speaker 5>in the sequel. He's the guy who gets his brain eaten.
<v Speaker 5>That is the that's Jack Crawford's replacement. So when I
<v Speaker 5>learned that, I was like, whoa, that guy gets his
<v Speaker 5>braining And then the book. In the book, Hannibal Lecter
<v Speaker 5>went after women. He was a woman killer now and
<v Speaker 5>the movie all he does is kill men. But that's
<v Speaker 5>why they chose Starling because she kind of fit the
<v Speaker 5>profile of the women he normally would go after. And
<v Speaker 5>so they were using here clearly as me.
<v Speaker 1>Ready to move on to composers. I don't know who
<v Speaker 1>the composer forr M was. They used soundtracked effectively in this,
<v Speaker 1>and I know it's gotten remade and reused several times.
<v Speaker 1>But moving on to Psycho, you've got Bernard Hermann, who's huge, right,
<v Speaker 1>and he gave us the his when the writer asked him,
<v Speaker 1>you know how big of an orchestra are you going
<v Speaker 1>to use for the soundtrack, he says it's going to
<v Speaker 1>only be the strings. He's like, only the strings? Why?
<v Speaker 1>He's like, well, it's a black and white movie. I'm
<v Speaker 1>creating a black and white sound. It's strings or nothing,
<v Speaker 1>and so that's all of the sounds that you get
<v Speaker 1>for Psycho. Even the stabbing scenes are all just stringed instruments.
<v Speaker 9>To piggyback off of that. Think of the movement of
<v Speaker 9>the bows on the violins and the viola is right,
<v Speaker 9>that back and forth movement of a stat motion when
<v Speaker 9>you watch those bows go up and down on the instrument.
<v Speaker 9>So you hear the instrument, you picture the instrument, you
<v Speaker 9>picture that movement, but you don't sit there and make
<v Speaker 9>those connections logically. But it all works together to help
<v Speaker 9>develop that motion, that stabbing motion in your head.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Alfred Hitchcock said, Bernard Herman is responsible for one
<v Speaker 1>third of the success of this movie because it would
<v Speaker 1>not have been the movie it was without this amazing soundtrack.
<v Speaker 5>Kind of similar to what Steven Spielberg said about John
<v Speaker 5>Williams and.
<v Speaker 1>Jaws, who was an apprentice of Bernard Herman and used
<v Speaker 1>his music to influence the music of Jaws, which was
<v Speaker 1>the first movie that he and Spielberg did together.
<v Speaker 5>And when tried to meet Alfred Hitchcock, Alfred Hitchcock would
<v Speaker 5>not even bother to shake his hand.
<v Speaker 8>And then I think, you know, we already gave a
<v Speaker 8>little bit of a plug earlier to the soundtrack show.
<v Speaker 8>But in the soundtrack show, I think they mentioned that
<v Speaker 8>there's that motif in Psycho. You know you're talking about
<v Speaker 8>John Williams. There's that motif in Psycho when he's trying
<v Speaker 8>to cover up the murder, and it's kind of the
<v Speaker 8>I'm gonna mess it up if I try it, but
<v Speaker 8>it's like the dun don't It's like a quick, little
<v Speaker 8>like three note thing. Is the same musical motif when
<v Speaker 8>Obi Wan, Luke Han and Chewy first emerged from the
<v Speaker 8>hidden compartments in the Falcon the exact little, exact, same
<v Speaker 8>little piece of music.
<v Speaker 1>Nice. And then for Silence of the Lamps, we have
<v Speaker 1>mister Howard Shore, who's done an amazing amount of stuff.
<v Speaker 1>He did The Fly, Jeff Colebloom, my guy for Hannibal Lecter,
<v Speaker 1>he did Single Wak Female Jennifer Jason Lee my replacement.
<v Speaker 1>I'm just pointing out the obvious connections, right, And he
<v Speaker 1>also did all of the Lord of the Rings in
<v Speaker 1>the Hobbit. He's not it's not a small amount of
<v Speaker 1>movies that he's not and.
<v Speaker 9>Not into thoughts were Okay, I feel like that sort
<v Speaker 9>of thing. It's all dungeons, its dragons.
<v Speaker 1>But it's his his music, and this one does not
<v Speaker 1>jump out at you in this movie. It's very just
<v Speaker 1>kind of ambient. It's like it's just there and it's
<v Speaker 1>just created. It's creepy feeling, but it's not right right
<v Speaker 1>in your face. It's just there and supporting the moment
<v Speaker 1>of the film. That's really it. Thoughts.
<v Speaker 5>I will say the soundtrack when they play American Girl
<v Speaker 5>by Tom Petty. Every time I hear that song on
<v Speaker 5>the radio online looking around for Buffalo.
<v Speaker 1>Billy, you know that's the one she's singing before she
<v Speaker 1>gets kidnapped her.
<v Speaker 13>Yeah, thank you, right, take it easy, she was an
<v Speaker 13>American Girl.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, you ready for release? Interception and yes, okay,
<v Speaker 1>let's do it. Okay go Well.
<v Speaker 5>M made about thirty five grand in the United States,
<v Speaker 5>but has been determined by the German Cinematography Institute to
<v Speaker 5>be the single most important German film of all time.
<v Speaker 5>So I'd say that's pretty high recognition.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. It was banned in Germany for Yeah, the nazis
<v Speaker 1>it for thirty years. It was released thirty one, they
<v Speaker 1>banned it, I believe a year after he left in
<v Speaker 1>thirty four, and it did not come back until sixty six.
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, over in the US, it was here,
<v Speaker 1>came out in the US and thirty three, and apparently
<v Speaker 1>they remade it like they remade an American version of
<v Speaker 1>M in nineteen fifty one. At that time you could
<v Speaker 1>still go see the original M, and the original M
<v Speaker 1>actually outperformed the remake that they did.
<v Speaker 5>I know that the head of MGM gathered all his
<v Speaker 5>young directors, showed it for them and said.
<v Speaker 1>You need to be making movies like this. Yeah, and
<v Speaker 1>then he said, if you brought me a movie that
<v Speaker 1>had this subject matter, I would reject it. Okay.
<v Speaker 9>So Psycho made money.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, it did a big hit. I've got that.
<v Speaker 5>The budget, you know, eight hundred and six thousand gross
<v Speaker 5>thirty two million, and of course the highest grossing movie
<v Speaker 5>of Alfred Hitchcock's career, and he owned what sixty percent
<v Speaker 5>of the profits?
<v Speaker 1>Uh woo take. I don't know how he ran out
<v Speaker 1>of money? Out of money. University theaters popped.
<v Speaker 9>Up, well played, hitch well played.
<v Speaker 5>Okay, Silence of the Lambs moving on, Silence of the Lambs.
<v Speaker 5>It's one of three movies to win the Big Five
<v Speaker 5>at the Oscars Best Director, Best Actor, Best Picture, Best Actress,
<v Speaker 5>Best Screenplay.
<v Speaker 1>Only two other movies have ever done that. Anybody any guesses.
<v Speaker 9>I want to say Dances with Wolves might be one
<v Speaker 9>of them.
<v Speaker 5>Dances with Wolves is not the answer, but that is
<v Speaker 5>the reason why Silence of the Lambs pushed its release
<v Speaker 5>date back almost six months or something like that. A're
<v Speaker 5>supposed to come out in nineteen ninety It was.
<v Speaker 1>Released February of ninety one, which is not typically when
<v Speaker 1>you release a movie that. It's not typically when a
<v Speaker 1>movie is going to do well with the Oscars. It's
<v Speaker 1>usually the ones that are released at the end of
<v Speaker 1>the year that are going to do well at the Oscars.
<v Speaker 1>This one is at the beginning and it still does well.
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna guess Big.
<v Speaker 9>No, not Big Gladiator.
<v Speaker 2>Nope.
<v Speaker 8>I would have said Titanic, But I don't think that
<v Speaker 8>one actress or actor you.
<v Speaker 1>Want the year you want?
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, give me the year nineteen thirty four and nineteen
<v Speaker 5>seventy five.
<v Speaker 1>Seventy five would be one flu over the Cahoo's Nest. Yes,
<v Speaker 1>thirty four. The man you knew too much. Nope.
<v Speaker 9>Is it one of those when you said where we're
<v Speaker 9>gonna be like oh man, or is it gonna be
<v Speaker 9>like ha?
<v Speaker 5>It doesn't mean a lot to me. It's called It
<v Speaker 5>Happened One.
<v Speaker 1>Night, now, the title of that movie. But I don't
<v Speaker 1>think i've seen it.
<v Speaker 9>Is that I've heard of it? You mute a Dennis,
<v Speaker 9>that's how we like it, all right.
<v Speaker 2>And I was saying what happened one night? And I
<v Speaker 2>was muted.
<v Speaker 1>That's not fair, Yeah, go ahead.
<v Speaker 2>The reason is I was.
<v Speaker 4>Saying, we actually saw that film junior year in a
<v Speaker 4>film study class. I didn't think it was that great,
<v Speaker 4>but I remember it being a big thing. So when
<v Speaker 4>you narrowed it down of the year in nineteen thirty four,
<v Speaker 4>that's all I can think of.
<v Speaker 2>I remember nineteen thirty four?
<v Speaker 3>Was you?
<v Speaker 1>That was your junior year?
<v Speaker 6>That was junior that was that was junior year of
<v Speaker 6>college though, right and all fairness, all.
<v Speaker 2>Right, I'll running a mile. Let's see your wins anyway.
<v Speaker 1>So now is the time on Sprockets when we rank
<v Speaker 1>our movie.
<v Speaker 7>Oh boy, here we go.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'll keep it short and sweet. I loved im
<v Speaker 1>when I saw it for the first time this year.
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was fantastic. I was truly, truly impressed.
<v Speaker 1>I had not liked Silence of the Lambs before, so
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was going to be third, and I
<v Speaker 1>thought Psycho is so iconic. Once I rewatched this thing again,
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to think this is the best of them all.
<v Speaker 1>It was completely wrong on my prejudgment of everything right,
<v Speaker 1>so Psycho didn't do much for me. I honestly kind
<v Speaker 1>of nodded off a couple of times during Psycho. It
<v Speaker 1>just wasn't. It didn't. It didn't give me the thrill
<v Speaker 1>that I thought it was going to give me. IM
<v Speaker 1>is fantastic, and for the things that it set into play,
<v Speaker 1>I got to rank it at number one, but Silence
<v Speaker 1>of the Lambs is a close second. I was truly
<v Speaker 1>surprised at how good it was because I had not
<v Speaker 1>remembered it being so good. Silence of the Lambs is fantastic,
<v Speaker 1>but im laying the groundwork for everything that it did,
<v Speaker 1>the fact that it's ninety years old and it seems
<v Speaker 1>so enlightened, and the performance of Peter Lourie as he's
<v Speaker 1>describing what it's like to be tormented and how to
<v Speaker 1>relieve that it's just too good. I got to go
<v Speaker 1>M number one, Sounds the Lambs number two, and Psycho
<v Speaker 1>a kind of distant three. Okay, what do you guys got?
<v Speaker 1>Final judgment?
<v Speaker 6>I would like to just like, at first, I'm like,
<v Speaker 6>after watching all three of these movies and I'd never
<v Speaker 6>seen them all up until thirty six hours ago. My
<v Speaker 6>first reaction was like, dude, I'm just going to reject
<v Speaker 6>the question. But then I realized, Okay, well, if we
<v Speaker 6>have guests on our show, that's not really you know,
<v Speaker 6>that's not cool. And if this is kind of we're
<v Speaker 6>guests on your show, I don't want to show up
<v Speaker 6>and be that guy. So then actually hearing with Diaz
<v Speaker 6>to say, that's exactly kind of the ranking that I
<v Speaker 6>would feel in it, Like M was just awesome, and
<v Speaker 6>I feel like I could rewatch that. In fact, I'm
<v Speaker 6>gonna rewatch it just because I'm sure I missed a
<v Speaker 6>whole bunch of it, but I'm going to rewatch that thing.
<v Speaker 6>And I could see rewatching that every year, you know.
<v Speaker 6>I mean that's like Dennis said, I mean, that's like
<v Speaker 6>a twelve Angry Men esque kind of mind play.
<v Speaker 7>You know. The other two movies were fantastic.
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if I'll rewatch them. I might go
<v Speaker 6>a little bit of opposite of what you was saying.
<v Speaker 6>I might rewatch Psycho before I rewatched Silence of the Lambs.
<v Speaker 6>But then as I say that out loud, it's like, no,
<v Speaker 6>I could see Silence of the Lambs again. I really
<v Speaker 6>I liked them all, but em was just so much
<v Speaker 6>to think about and so relevant.
<v Speaker 7>I would I would give that one the nod.
<v Speaker 4>So I'm gonna go buy more of what I would
<v Speaker 4>rewatch again, So I'm gonna go the almost op. I'm
<v Speaker 4>gonna go Silence to the Lambs one, Psycho two, M three.
<v Speaker 4>Because of that factor, if I were to judge which
<v Speaker 4>movie I'm gonna see again it's on TV, I'm gonna
<v Speaker 4>stop and watch probably Silence of the Lambs. Then it's
<v Speaker 4>going to be Psycho, and then it would be M.
<v Speaker 2>M is good. But like if I were to.
<v Speaker 4>Rank which one is especially for the time period and
<v Speaker 4>for what they had to work with, you know, and
<v Speaker 4>in a bold statement and a bold topic at that time,
<v Speaker 4>and daring topic. So while I might rank M under
<v Speaker 4>the scale of which is the better film, which one
<v Speaker 4>I would rewatch more, which one I.
<v Speaker 2>Would be wanting to see again? I would go Silence, Psycho.
<v Speaker 9>I'm struggling with this a lot, because the difference between
<v Speaker 9>all three of these would be like minuscule points, like
<v Speaker 9>they each bring a certain thing to it right. So
<v Speaker 9>I feel like without M, they're probably Psycho wouldn't have
<v Speaker 9>done its thing, and without Psycho, Silence wouldn't have done
<v Speaker 9>its thing right. But in my head, that doesn't warrant
<v Speaker 9>M enough credence to beat out Psycho and Silence. I
<v Speaker 9>think in terms of im if I'm going to put
<v Speaker 9>on a movie and I want to be entertained by
<v Speaker 9>a movie of this genre, I think I would probably
<v Speaker 9>go with Dennis's list and do Silence. Very close second
<v Speaker 9>would be Psycho, and then very close to that would
<v Speaker 9>be M. It just depends on what do I want
<v Speaker 9>to get out of my movie view experienced when I'm
<v Speaker 9>putting on this movie.
<v Speaker 8>Sometimes on our show, we try to ask the question
<v Speaker 8>and frame it like, all right, a two parter if
<v Speaker 8>this were coming out today and we're in theaters, like,
<v Speaker 8>what would draw me to go see it? Part two
<v Speaker 8>to that question is is this a movie that I
<v Speaker 8>would own? A physical copy of my list is pretty
<v Speaker 8>much exactly It actually is exactly the same as everybody
<v Speaker 8>else's for some of those same reasons. I really enjoyed
<v Speaker 8>EM the first time I had seen it, from start
<v Speaker 8>to finish. A heady topic, just it was it was
<v Speaker 8>great to see and watch a movie that was that
<v Speaker 8>long ago, and just some of the strategies, some of
<v Speaker 8>the different techniques and the things that it employed. I'm
<v Speaker 8>watching that movie, I'm going that's where that's from. I've
<v Speaker 8>seen that in other movies before, but this one is
<v Speaker 8>so early on and like that must be where it
<v Speaker 8>started or very close to where it started. So that
<v Speaker 8>was fun to see that in M To Jeff's point,
<v Speaker 8>I don't know that, at least in the near future.
<v Speaker 8>I will go back and rewatch M. It's one of
<v Speaker 8>those and it's like, Okay, I've seen it. I've checked
<v Speaker 8>that off my life of movies I need to see
<v Speaker 8>before I die? Do I need to see it again? No,
<v Speaker 8>I've got it. I understand its significance. I enjoyed it.
<v Speaker 8>I really liked it. Moving on to other things, Psycho
<v Speaker 8>Love Psycho. I would probably own a copy of Psycho.
<v Speaker 8>I don't own a copy but I would, if not
<v Speaker 8>for just its cultural significance, knowing that my family growing up,
<v Speaker 8>Alfred Hitchcock was always kind of a big thing in
<v Speaker 8>our family. We watched a lot of Alfred Hitchcock's stuff. Psycho.
<v Speaker 8>Would I be as ready to rewatch Psycho as I
<v Speaker 8>would Silence of the Lambs? Or would I be? I
<v Speaker 8>don't even want to say as entertained? Well, no, I
<v Speaker 8>do as entertained. No, I am more entertained, but just
<v Speaker 8>barely more entertained by Silence of the Lambs. There's just
<v Speaker 8>so much in Silence of the Lambs that just kind
<v Speaker 8>of hits it for me, just that the character of
<v Speaker 8>Hannibal Lecter, the struggle, the story, all the conflict in it,
<v Speaker 8>the interplay between Clarice and and Hannibal. It just it's
<v Speaker 8>that movie fires on all cylinders from me. So I
<v Speaker 8>think that's gonna be my order too. It's going to
<v Speaker 8>be Silence of the Lambs, Psycho, and then M. That
<v Speaker 8>doesn't diminish what M is and what EM did. It's
<v Speaker 8>just they're all three really good.
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I'm gonna just copy what you guys said. I
<v Speaker 5>think for my list it goes M at number three.
<v Speaker 5>Psycho at number two, and then the character of Hannibal
<v Speaker 5>Lecter as the crazy psychotic who's helping you catch the
<v Speaker 5>super scary buffalo bill that puts it over the top.
<v Speaker 5>Silence of the Lambs for me is number one. We
<v Speaker 5>want to hear what you guys out there in facebook
<v Speaker 5>Land have to say about this.
<v Speaker 1>Where do you rank these?
<v Speaker 11>One?
<v Speaker 1>Two? Three? Facebook Land?
<v Speaker 5>Facebook Land guys, thank you so much for joining us.
<v Speaker 5>This has been a blast, just a lot of fun
<v Speaker 5>to get in depth with these crazy deep serial killer movies.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.
<v Speaker 8>No, thank you guys so much for having us. We
<v Speaker 8>always have a good time with you guys, most of
<v Speaker 8>us except for Pat. Anytime we get a chance to
<v Speaker 8>talk about something creepy or scary, we're up for it.
<v Speaker 8>And Pat's a good sport, you know, he'll jump into yeah.
<v Speaker 7>And I mean, I don't know how creepy and scary
<v Speaker 7>these were.
<v Speaker 6>I think it was just really like intense, you know,
<v Speaker 6>So I don't know what that statement was supposed to mean.
<v Speaker 7>You can edit that out, but hey.
<v Speaker 6>It was great being on the show though, and seriously
<v Speaker 6>talking about three movies that I'd never seen before. So
<v Speaker 6>it was great to get the first time reactions and
<v Speaker 6>discuss them.
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, you know, rating these should be a one blanky,
<v Speaker 4>two blanky, three blanky type.
<v Speaker 2>Of rating for you.
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, man, yeah, you needed three comfort blankies there and.
<v Speaker 6>Not once I started rooting for Hannibal Lecter, like once
<v Speaker 6>I realized, like, dude, this guy's smarter than any of
<v Speaker 6>these fools out there. And I was rooting for Jodie
<v Speaker 6>Foster too, so then it kind of became like, you know,
<v Speaker 6>he's getting out like Jody.
<v Speaker 2>Was running too.
<v Speaker 8>So well that probably didn't hurt, but that, ye, Pat,
<v Speaker 8>you kind of hit on my sister's strategy. When she's
<v Speaker 8>watching a movie and it starts to get too scary,
<v Speaker 8>she decides she's going to start rooting for the villain.
<v Speaker 8>Right then it becomes less scary. So that's kind of
<v Speaker 8>her strategy for any horror movie if she's getting freaked
<v Speaker 8>out or too scared, So all right, I'm just going
<v Speaker 8>to start rooting for the guy or the creature that's
<v Speaker 8>killing everybody. It's less scary, right.
<v Speaker 9>Well, guys, thank you for having us on, and I
<v Speaker 9>also want to thank you specifically for this episode, you know,
<v Speaker 9>taking our our concept looking at sounds of the Lambs
<v Speaker 9>and then raising it with your concept because you guys
<v Speaker 9>always find fantastic ways to pit one thing against another.
<v Speaker 9>Thank you, and in ways that always makes sense that
<v Speaker 9>when you hear it, it seems so obvious, but you
<v Speaker 9>never think of it yourself until I also, like, you
<v Speaker 9>guys are like, so next week we're going to start
<v Speaker 9>comparing this one and that one, Like, oh, how come
<v Speaker 9>I've never done that before? That is, of course you
<v Speaker 9>should compare those things well, so bring bringing them and
<v Speaker 9>Psycho into the conversation for Sons of the Lambs.
<v Speaker 2>Is like, yeah, I never conversation together.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, thank you for setting us up for promoing
<v Speaker 1>what we're coming out with next episode, which is two
<v Speaker 1>movies that turn forty years old this year, both werewolf
<v Speaker 1>movies Botheen eighty one nineteen eighty one, All Amazing Werewolf
<v Speaker 1>Change Movies, Got the Howling by Joe Dante and American Werewolf.
<v Speaker 8>Ohoes, Ambada bomba bomba bomb Bomb.
<v Speaker 1>It's been super fun, guys, look forward to doing it
<v Speaker 1>again soon.
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, you guys all take care. Thank you all so much.
<v Speaker 1>Doctor you guys. Okay, ready, we're going to take a
<v Speaker 1>quick break to do a Shirly showcase with one of
<v Speaker 1>our Patreon members, mister Jonathan Tweety. He's gonna hit us
<v Speaker 1>with his opinion on one of our episodes from season one,
<v Speaker 1>which is Trading Places versus Coming to America. Yep, let's
<v Speaker 1>hear from Jonathan.
<v Speaker 11>Hey, guys, this is John Tweety from Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
<v Speaker 11>I appreciate you inviting me to chime in on some
<v Speaker 11>of the films you've pit it against each other in
<v Speaker 11>the past. I've been listening to you since last fall,
<v Speaker 11>and I think it's an absolutely awesome show. I love
<v Speaker 11>the depth and complexity of the connections that you make
<v Speaker 11>between the films you review and how you weave together
<v Speaker 11>this tapestry of relationships to other films and actors and
<v Speaker 11>just pop culture in general along the way.
<v Speaker 1>Most of all, I.
<v Speaker 11>Think I enjoy the nostalgia, guessing we're around the same age,
<v Speaker 11>since a lot of what you talk about as a
<v Speaker 11>blast from the past from my own childhood as well. Anyway,
<v Speaker 11>since my first experience listening to your podcast was when
<v Speaker 11>you discussed Trading Places and Coming to America, I thought
<v Speaker 11>i'd say a little bit about those two. First of all,
<v Speaker 11>I absolutely loved both movies, It's almost impossible for me
<v Speaker 11>to say which I think is best. I do think
<v Speaker 11>each of them did something different for me. I found
<v Speaker 11>the plot of Trading Places to be more captivating, but
<v Speaker 11>I've found Coming to America to be a much funnier
<v Speaker 11>film throughout. I also really found Trading Places to be
<v Speaker 11>more of a film about Lewis Winthorpe than about Billy
<v Speaker 11>Ray Valentine. We do see a good bit of his
<v Speaker 11>experience independent of Winthorpe when he's working for the Duke brothers,
<v Speaker 11>but when they joined forces to bring them down, I
<v Speaker 11>feel like the story takes a strong lean towards fulfilling
<v Speaker 11>Lewis's agenda with Billy Ray long for the ride. It's
<v Speaker 11>really in Coming to America that we really get the
<v Speaker 11>chance to see Eddie's really come to life on the
<v Speaker 11>big screen, and you know, with two Beverly Hills cops
<v Speaker 11>coming out in the meantime, it's by no means our
<v Speaker 11>first introduction to him as the main character. But in
<v Speaker 11>both those and Trading Places, it feels like the comedy
<v Speaker 11>kind of takes a backseat to the larger plot, only
<v Speaker 11>really showing up when he's being silly or funny to
<v Speaker 11>distract somebody. In other words, Treading Places is a comedy
<v Speaker 11>drama using drama loosely here, you know, with some silly parts,
<v Speaker 11>and Beverly Hills cop is an action with some silly parts.
<v Speaker 11>But I found Coming to America to be a side
<v Speaker 11>splittingly hilarious comedy that was then loosely structured around a
<v Speaker 11>romantic plot line to hold it together, And I think
<v Speaker 11>that's what really made the difference for me. Both obviously
<v Speaker 11>have terrific casts. Donamchi and Bill Bellamy absolutely slay it
<v Speaker 11>as the Duke Brothers. Paul Gleeson does what he does
<v Speaker 11>best by playing a kind of a wet blanket of
<v Speaker 11>a nasty guy, and Jamie Lee Curtis of course gives
<v Speaker 11>us what I thought might be some of our sexy,
<v Speaker 11>strong and beautiful best as Ophelia. But then again, coming
<v Speaker 11>to America's use of Eddie Murphy and arseniy A Hall
<v Speaker 11>to play what seems like twenty seven characters apiece, along
<v Speaker 11>with the amazing talents of James Earl Jones, John Ames Sherry, Hadley,
<v Speaker 11>Louis Anderson, and yep, Samuel Mothers something Jackson back when
<v Speaker 11>he had both eyes at pretty much knocks Casting out
<v Speaker 11>of the park too. So, like I said, I don't
<v Speaker 11>think I could ever pick a favorite of the two.
<v Speaker 11>I love them both for their own reasons. So what
<v Speaker 11>it really comes down to is that I think Coming
<v Speaker 11>to America is the better comedy, and Trading Places has
<v Speaker 11>a more intriguing plot. Anyway, thanks so much for what
<v Speaker 11>you do, guys. It's been a joy listening so far,
<v Speaker 11>and I'm planning to keep following long.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I totally understand. We pick these to make the
<v Speaker 1>decision hard we want. I mean, if it was an
<v Speaker 1>easy decision, it wouldn't be interesting.
<v Speaker 3>Right right right.
<v Speaker 1>We only pick winners. We only pick winners, and the
<v Speaker 1>winners are ones that it's tough to decide which one
<v Speaker 1>you like. I still go back and like, did I
<v Speaker 1>pick the right one? I don't know if I picked
<v Speaker 1>the right one.
<v Speaker 5>I lean Trading Places, but I love Coming to America too.
<v Speaker 1>Coming to America is by far a funnier movie, but
<v Speaker 1>Trading Places is so iconic.
<v Speaker 7>I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>It's a tough one. I'd watch them both right now.
<v Speaker 1>Eddie Murphy is so great. Really matter, but thank you, Jonathan,
<v Speaker 1>really appreciate your support. You've been a great advocate for
<v Speaker 1>us and really appreciate you giving us support. If you
<v Speaker 1>would like to, dear listener, would like to become a
<v Speaker 1>Patreon member, you can go to Patreon dot com forward
<v Speaker 1>slash Shirley Podcast and for as little as five dollars
<v Speaker 1>a month, which is the Billy Ray Valentine level, you
<v Speaker 1>can be one of our executive producers. We also go
<v Speaker 1>up to Lewis Winthorpe, Duke Brothers, and then Prince Akim.
<v Speaker 5>I know right right, Jonathan, Thank you so much.
<v Speaker 1>We really appreciate you. Thanks for weighing in.
<v Speaker 14>If you want to be on the Shirley Showcase, send
<v Speaker 14>us an email, keep it around three minutes or least
<v Speaker 14>and email us at Shirleypodcast at gmail dot com. And
<v Speaker 14>we've got a nice connection in the movies you just mentioned.
<v Speaker 1>For next week's episodes, we have John Landis once again
<v Speaker 1>the movie he did before he did Trading Places, right
<v Speaker 1>before he gets for Places, American Werewolf in London, which
<v Speaker 1>came out in nineteen eighty one, and we're going to
<v Speaker 1>compare that to another great werewolf movie from nineteen eighty one,
<v Speaker 1>The Howling. It's Halloween time. We got to do something scary.
<v Speaker 2>You know it is the year of the Wolf.
<v Speaker 1>Beware of the moon. Stick to the moors. No, stick
<v Speaker 1>to the road. Stick to the road, not the moors.
<v Speaker 1>Stay away from the moors. Oh, we're going to be
<v Speaker 1>still lost.