Pat Burrell joins the show!

00:00:18
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Phillies Show with Rubin Tomorrow Junior Jim Salisbury. I am Todds A lucky It is Thursday, May second, twenty twenty four. The Phillies just won two out of three against the Angels and Anaheim. They completed a seven and three road trip. They are twenty one and eleven overall. It is their best start through thirty two games since the twenty eleven season, when they won a franchise record one hundred and two games. The Phillies have the third best record in baseball. They're only a half game behind the Braves. A lot of good things are happening. When I think back to this seven and three road trip, I think about the Nick Castianos game time home run on Tuesday night, not because it was such a clutch home run, but because of what he did seconds after he hit it, less than seconds after he hit it. Immediately after he hit it, he dropped his bat and he used his right index finger and pointed to the right field stands where he thought the ball was going to go. I thought that was a really fun moment. Moments like that are why Reuben, Jim and I like to do this podcast, and we had a ton of fun earlier this week talking with former Phillies left fielder Pat Burrell. Pat is now a hitting coach with the San Francisco Giants. The Giants are coming to town. They're going to play a four game series against the Phillies beginning Friday night, and Pat shared a lot of great Philly stories. He shared a lot of insight in his job as a hitting coach and getting through to young hitters, struggling hitters on occasion, and most important, Pat also shared his journey to sobriety. Pat has been sober for five years. He talked about the events that led up to it, and he talked about how much his life has improved since then. Here's the Phillies Show conversation with Pat Burrow.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: Pat, thank you.

00:02:13
Speaker 1: So much for joining the Phillies Show. It's good to see you man. How is everything going in San Francisco. It's been the hitting coach.

00:02:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been great. First, it's great to be on here with you guys. It's good to catch up. It's been a long time.

00:02:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:02:30
Speaker 3: The hitting coach stuff is a lot, you know, it's really changed a lot in the.

00:02:34
Speaker 2: Last fifteen years.

00:02:36
Speaker 3: We're a lot more involved and you know pretty much everything that goes along with hitting. The fact is there's three of us, actually myself justin Veieley and I share the hitting coach role, and then we have a third guy, Pedro Guerrero, who you guys had in Philadelphia. So I mean, between the three of us, I'd like to believe we haven't covered.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: What.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question, because you know, you had a long career, a very successful career. A lot of guys at this point of their lives they could just play a lot of golf, they could fish, they could travel, you know, maybe be a club ambassador, maybe dabble in broadcasting. You decided to get back in the thick of it with like ridiculously long hours, with the travel. This is something you do not need to do, but you're doing it. And so my question is why why are you doing this?

00:03:25
Speaker 2: Well, it didn't start out this way. I mean, it wasn't a situation where.

00:03:30
Speaker 3: I had the goal to become a hitting coach in the major leagues. What happened was I wanted to stay involved in baseball. I had a good relationship with the Giants after ending my career there and about five years ago there was an opening in San Jose for hitting coach job, which is about.

00:03:50
Speaker 2: Twenty five minutes from my house, and I was you know, I had scouted for about five years, just getting off.

00:03:57
Speaker 3: The field, and that became a little bit too much travel wise, and so I wanted to stay involved. Really didn't know what avenue had taken this and this job opened up, and.

00:04:09
Speaker 2: Unfortunately we got to spring training and.

00:04:14
Speaker 3: The world shut down, and if you guys remember they realign the minor leagues at that point and they did away with short season a ball.

00:04:23
Speaker 2: So San Jose am now basically became.

00:04:30
Speaker 3: That league went to Eugene, Oregon, and so I wasn't able to make that kind of move, and so they kind of created a role for me as a rover, which was fantastic, and that's what I had been doing and very happy with it. You know, there was a part of me that, you know, I spent a week, let's say, in Richmond, Virginia, and you get close to the guys and then you leave for a month, you know, and so there was a little bit of a thought that you know, I don't know if if you're able to make any kind of impact with anybody in that short time. And then obviously you fast forward and the organization made some changes at the top as far as the major league staff, and there was an opportunity, and we had some conversations, and you know, it just kind of happened. It just kind of happened. I was willing to do it.

00:05:21
Speaker 2: Of course. I had a talk with my wife about.

00:05:25
Speaker 3: It, and she was all for it, and so then it became really easy.

00:05:30
Speaker 2: I knew some of the guys just just from being local.

00:05:35
Speaker 3: But I think the biggest part of it was that we were going to have some young kids coming through the system that we're going to be kind of staples of our team at some point. And I think my relationships with those players in the minor leagues I think helped make the decision for them interesting.

00:05:51
Speaker 1: You know, you had a good Matt Breeden from The Inquiry wrote a story recently and speaking of that you said and talking to young players, I thought it was a great quote. It says, it's the suffering that the eyes need to hear they're not alone. Is that something you preach to these young hitters, like, hey man, I've been through the I've been through the Ringer exactly.

00:06:10
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's this argument, you know, the game has changed so much that you know you need to have had experience or experience doesn't matter, whatever the case may be, whatever you believe is fine. But you get so intimate with these guys, and you spend so much time together, and I think when I talk about my career, you know, it's always gosh, I should have been better. But you know, I know of one thing. I've certainly been through the highs and the lows. And you know, when you're talking to somebody, a young player who's got a ton of expectations for himself and it's going.

00:06:50
Speaker 2: Through struggles, it's nice for them.

00:06:52
Speaker 3: To hear that, you know, everybody goes through this, everybody suffers, everybody goes through hard times, and it's part of the deal, you know, embracing the fact that no matter how good you are, you're going to fail seventy percent of the time, you know.

00:07:07
Speaker 2: And so.

00:07:09
Speaker 3: Just those kinds of conversations I think really helps out the guys, just with the understanding that, hey, we go through these difficult times, but we come out the other side if we just keep going.

00:07:21
Speaker 2: Keep working.

00:07:23
Speaker 4: Bet it's great to see you.

00:07:25
Speaker 5: It seems like yesterday I was watching you sprint around the bases in Houston hitting that ball up the hill for your first time, first major league hit?

00:07:35
Speaker 2: You remember, would it would have been a homer?

00:07:37
Speaker 6: Now you're right, So it just it seems like yesterday, and You've had an amazing baseball journey, an amazing personal journey.

00:07:48
Speaker 5: I'm wondering, like, as a coach, are you all about okay technique? Are you talking about life experiences? Are you talking about expectations? Do these guys know you were a number one pick? Are they so young they don't know remember of nineteen ninety eight. You talk about the expectation as a player and the struggles you may deal with as a person, and try to put that all in into your teaching and you're mentoring of these young men.

00:08:16
Speaker 2: It's a great question.

00:08:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think I'm less about the mechanics and more about the way we think and searching for the way we feel.

00:08:26
Speaker 2: So, you know, hitting if.

00:08:28
Speaker 3: You talk to these guys, and you talk to anybody at any level, they all say it's somewhere between seventy and ninety percent mental, And so you know, yet we spend.

00:08:39
Speaker 2: Hours upon hours upon hours.

00:08:41
Speaker 3: Swinging the bat in the cages, and you know, you talk to these guys through their bats and the way they think between pitches, and that's where you really find some of the issues. And so, yeah, it's a lot more about how we think and how we prepare than my opinion. Then, you know, a lot of the swing faults and trying to to do ground up restorations on these guys' swings.

00:09:07
Speaker 2: I mean, I think.

00:09:10
Speaker 3: They're all there for a reason. They've got there because they were successful. So I think what we do is try to take their strengths and make them better and stop stop worrying about trying to change everybody.

00:09:21
Speaker 5: I remember talking to you once you're on a really hot streak and I was writing about it.

00:09:26
Speaker 1: It was it happened, It happened, You had plenty of You're five.

00:09:32
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you said, you know, I was trying to probe a little bit into if you had made any adjustments, and you look at me and said, look, it's just confidence.

00:09:40
Speaker 4: It's just confidence.

00:09:41
Speaker 2: It is how much do.

00:09:43
Speaker 4: You preach that, teach that and how important is that to a hitter?

00:09:48
Speaker 3: You know, that's a great question, and it's kind of a fallow up to the one you ask. You know, in this age old battle between what comes first, confidence.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: Or success, I think with baseball all it's the hard work that comes first. And I think if we.

00:10:07
Speaker 3: Continue to work the right way and work hard and we get some results in the game, I think, in my opinion, that's when the confidence starts to build. And we keep working and we and if we get more results, then we keep growing in confidence. And the one thing that we're really talking about this time of year is that regardless of what happened last year, you know, it just doesn't carry over.

00:10:29
Speaker 2: We have to earn it every year.

00:10:31
Speaker 3: And it may look a little different, you know, the setup may be a little different, but the key is that you get to the point in the season where you feel like, Okay, I'm feeling pretty good.

00:10:42
Speaker 2: Now I can go play. And it takes guys longer than other guys.

00:10:47
Speaker 3: Some guys find it really early in spring training and those guys have just very steady years. Although that's that doesn't seem to be the case very often anymore. But you know, I really do believe that the success you might have is a is a is directly proportional to the work that you're doing, and then the confidence follows from there.

00:11:10
Speaker 7: I'm sort of along these lay of those lines. And is there anyone, and you can be specific or not be specific. Is there a player that you've worked with over these last few years where you felt like, in particular, had like this really cool moment, like an impact where wow, this guy I you know, I worked with this kid and he couldn't get it, and he couldn't get but but he got over the top. Or there's some has that happened very often for you and when it happens, how does that make you feel? Because as a coach, when you're going through that, it's a it's a pretty amazing feeling.

00:11:47
Speaker 2: It was for me. Yeah, I mean, and it's it's it's a little bit different. We had a kid that you know, it was a third rounder and some trauma in a ball when he.

00:12:01
Speaker 3: Got started, I got hit in the face with a fastball and you know, broke his nose, orbital and bone, missed considerable time.

00:12:10
Speaker 2: I think, actually had to have surgery.

00:12:13
Speaker 3: And when he finally got back, within the first couple of bats, he got hit in the rest and broke his rest.

00:12:19
Speaker 2: He was out for the year, and so as you.

00:12:22
Speaker 3: Can imagine, yeah, coming back next year in spring training, a lot of question.

00:12:30
Speaker 2: Marks on our part of course, because we're concerned.

00:12:35
Speaker 3: And then you know, once the game started, his work was fantastic in spring training.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: And then once the game started, you see that he was a little tentative to.

00:12:43
Speaker 3: Kind of really keep his nose in there in the batter's box room, if you know what I mean.

00:12:47
Speaker 7: Yeah, it makes sense.

00:12:50
Speaker 3: And he kept going to the cage after the game to try and fix it. And it was time to have a conversation with him and just try to try to open up the door to see if he was willing to be honest about what was going on in his head, and and and so it you know, it took a couple of days, but we finally got to the point where he said, look, I'm just scared to death. And I said, good, because you know, if you weren't, I think something was wrong with you. And so, uh, our generation roube guys weren't honest about stuff like that.

00:13:28
Speaker 2: So I give this kid a lot of credit.

00:13:30
Speaker 3: You know, he was willing to admit his fears and and then we started working right and and it took a lot to get him committed. It was more of an attitude and at the end of the day that got him.

00:13:45
Speaker 2: Kind of through that period.

00:13:46
Speaker 3: But when you fast forward a couple of years, this guy gets called up to the major leagues.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Within the first couple of days he had to a home run.

00:13:54
Speaker 3: And at that time I was still in the minor leagues but watching on TV and to your point, Rube, I mean, I was just overcome with emotion because.

00:14:02
Speaker 2: I it was.

00:14:05
Speaker 3: Knowing what this kid had been through and having him come out the other side, I think was the whole reason that we do this stuff, you know, just to for that one kid or multiple kids to to to work their asses off really and get to the point where they can fulfill their dreams, right, And that's the whole thing. So there there's a couple of situations like that, but that one sticks out just because.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: It just shows how powerful.

00:14:34
Speaker 3: The mind is in this game, and there should be a lot more focus on it in my opinion, about how we think and the pressures, you know, and the you know, having Joey Bart in the minor leagues was the second overall pick and and really.

00:14:49
Speaker 2: Had you know, struggles in multiple parts of the game.

00:14:54
Speaker 3: And then to see him get a fresh start in Pittsburgh and have some really early success.

00:14:59
Speaker 2: I I really pull for guys like that.

00:15:01
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's been rewarding in a ton of ways, but most of it is just to see the guys get the chance to fulfill their dreams like we did.

00:15:12
Speaker 1: That you played with Dave Hollins, I think right briefly in O two.

00:15:16
Speaker 2: And he's got a son.

00:15:17
Speaker 1: He's got a son, bo who's very highly regarded, might be drafted this year. And uh again going back to there's a story recently in the Philadelphi Inquiry where Dave talked a lot about how I'm teaching my son how not to to take the best of me and get rid of the worst of me. He says, I when I played, I was too intense. I beat myself up too much. I was unapproachable to young players. And I'm trying to.

00:15:41
Speaker 2: Teach you approachable.

00:15:44
Speaker 4: Believe that.

00:15:46
Speaker 2: And so I guess that was Mikey, That Mike, that was Mikey.

00:15:50
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm wondering, as a hitting coach, have you used examples of maybe you know, time with the Phillies where you go, man, I remember this time or I remember this moment or I wish I would have done this differently, and if I add it really would have helped me out.

00:16:07
Speaker 3: Almost every day there's something that comes up that I can go back in time and you know, look at the way that I handled certain situations and wish I would have done a better job. You know, you can't prepare for no matter where you're from or what environment you came from. I don't know that you could prepare to be, you know, in your early twenties with the kind of pressure that goes on in today's game, which is more because of social media, and be put out in the spotlight and to most likely have never failed in your life at anything. And then you get to the major leagues and oh my god, I'm completely lost and where do I go?

00:16:52
Speaker 2: And I like to believe that I'm a good person to have around for those kinds of moments.

00:16:58
Speaker 3: So of course, all the time, you know, we we spend a lot of time talking about, you know, the difference between Triple A and the major leagues, and you know, although it's you know, ninety miles away, and you know, it's the same game, but there's so much more.

00:17:16
Speaker 2: That goes into it at the major league level, and the pressures and the failures, and you know, the press and the social media and everything that goes into it.

00:17:29
Speaker 4: Patrick.

00:17:29
Speaker 5: When I listened to you, I saw an interview with you. I think it was on K and B R in spring training. Uh huh yeah, do you hear me?

00:17:38
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:17:39
Speaker 5: Yeah, you were doing a video interview I think with the station in San Francisco.

00:17:43
Speaker 4: And what struck me is how content you looked.

00:17:48
Speaker 2: You looked happy.

00:17:49
Speaker 5: I'm listening to you now and looking at you. You look happy, you look content, You're smart as hell. I hear maturity. You know you've been open about your personal journey to sobriety. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it's created. This maybe reopened your love for baseball and how you use that life experience and congratulations for it, but how you use that life experience to build a better San Francisco Giant player.

00:18:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, uh, thanks first of all, and yeah, I have no issues talking about it. I to your point about helping the kids. You know, when I look back at my career and my time in Philadelphia or even after, people deal with the pressures of this game and life in different ways.

00:18:46
Speaker 2: I drank a time, I drank a ton.

00:18:48
Speaker 3: When I was there, I was able to kind of manage things a little bit, but in my mind there was always I was always kind of teetering on this.

00:19:00
Speaker 2: I had of over indulge, right, So, and as I got out of.

00:19:06
Speaker 3: The game, you know, with less responsibility, I had more free time, idle time, as they say it, and it just got.

00:19:16
Speaker 2: To a point where I needed to make a change or else.

00:19:19
Speaker 3: You know, the truth is, I was getting scared that, you know, I was married and I had this life, and that I was going to mess it all up. And then, you know, my dad coincidentally had been had quit drinking probably ten years prior and went to a place in Napo for rehab. And that was the first call I made. And you know, it's probably the best decision I've ever made.

00:19:47
Speaker 2: So, not that it was easy, of course, but it was time for a change.

00:19:52
Speaker 3: It was time for me to it's your point, to grow up and take some responsibility for my life.

00:19:58
Speaker 2: And you know, looking it's almost been five years.

00:20:02
Speaker 3: If you had told me five years ago that I'd be a hitting coach in the Major League, I just wouldn't have believed anybody and so, but because I was able to get sober and stay sober with the help of a lot of people, I kind.

00:20:18
Speaker 2: Of look at it.

00:20:18
Speaker 3: It's allowed me to kind of revisit this baseball thing in a whole different light. I feel like I do have a lot to offer to the to the young men that play this game. And it isn't all good, right, It's it's life. It's there's challenges in every capacity. So it's it's been a great journey. I'm very to your point, I'm very content, I'm challenged, and I really love our group.

00:20:44
Speaker 2: I love our coaching staff.

00:20:46
Speaker 3: It's a lot, Don't get me wrong, It's a lot, but it's it's it's worth it.

00:20:51
Speaker 2: It's worth every second of it.

00:20:53
Speaker 7: So so I wanted to h I appreciate those words, Patrick, and congratulations of my end too. So I want to switch gears a little bit. I mean, I know there's a lot of memories. Obviously, winning the World Series got to be an unbelievable memory for you, as it was for all of us in Philadelphia at the time. Are there other things that you can look back on and think, you know, how grateful was I to have X or how grateful was I to have? Why are there those sort of moments for you when you were in Philadelphia, just Philadelphia Base.

00:21:30
Speaker 3: You know, it happens all the time to me. As I've gotten older, you flash back. You're a college student, you get drafted by Philadelphia. You don't know anything about the city, You don't know anything about anything, really, and you quickly learned how intense of.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: An environment that it is, and it can be overwhelming.

00:21:53
Speaker 3: And I remember when things I remember Voop coming back on a plane and saying, you guys, just keep hitting this single turn around.

00:22:05
Speaker 2: We'll get this thing right.

00:22:07
Speaker 3: And that coupled with you know, the Steve Carltons of the world and Mike Schmidt coming back and talking about and all the videos during the games about the eighty team, and you know, we just got to the point where we wanted it to kind of be about.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: Us, you know, and we had.

00:22:27
Speaker 3: The right pieces, obviously with that lineup and the pitching staff that slidified. But yeah, those those times come up quite a bit, and I couldn't be more grateful for the opportunity to get drafted by the Phillies, to come up in a system where you know, the lee Ilias and the Dallas Greens and the Bill Dancy's and I mean the mock Bombards. I mean these were baseball people. And you had coaching staff Jerry Martin. You had guys that have spent their whole lives in this game, and not only to teach you about the ins and outs of baseball, but these guys had lived in this baseball world their whole lives.

00:23:09
Speaker 2: And so I think at the time we all took took all that stuff for granted.

00:23:15
Speaker 3: But now, and you know, looking back at the last five years and player development, you know, you look around, you don't see those guys anymore. You don't see uh, you know, sixty year old seasoned people that have spent their whole life doing this and you can learn so much from these people, and for whatever reason, you know, the game has changed in that way. I wish there was more guys around to be mentors to these young kids, because the guys that we had with the Phillies, Roub and you can you know exactly who I'm talking about, they helped shape who I am today.

00:23:50
Speaker 2: And I'm very grateful for that. And I kind of look at.

00:23:55
Speaker 3: Baseball as you know, if you have been through some of the things that I've gone through and been lucky enough to come up with a Phillies and play for an ownership group that was willing to do whatever it took to win. To pass those things along to the next generation is very important, and that's kind of how I look at my job.

00:24:17
Speaker 5: It's almost like like you talk about instructors and minor leagues and all those names you mentioned, great names. Sometimes I get the feeling that in baseball player development in big league level, prior baseball experience is frowned on. Everybody kind of wants to put their own new spin on it.

00:24:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, I don't understand it. I mean I see it just the same way as you do, don't. I don't know how that all happened.

00:24:47
Speaker 3: If it wasn't for the people that came before me, I wouldn't know anything about this game. So it would only make sense to me that you would keep people around. I know the money is a big part of it. I know that, especially the generation I was in, guys started making a whole lot of money, and the thought of getting on a bus in the minor leagues for thirty thousand dollars a year is probably not very appealing. So I'm sure that's a huge part of it. But for the experience of the players that are getting drafted every year, it's so important to have people around that have been there and done it before.

00:25:27
Speaker 2: And so.

00:25:29
Speaker 3: I'm hoping guys continue to stay in the game and more guys that are out there. I mean, I talked to all my peer group all the time about come to spring training. You know, you have a lot to offer and you don't have to worry about being outdated.

00:25:44
Speaker 2: This game is the same game that you played, Pat.

00:25:47
Speaker 7: I was always thought that, so this if I had an opportunity and I understand the game, there's a lot of stuff that's happened that changed in the game. But I always felt like, especially in player development, it being had people mentoring the mentors or mentoring the coaches. Sure, just a veteran people like that, I think that that would be a really, really helpful thing. You know that you could teach the next group of people and give them your experiences. You know, whoever that person was you're talking about somewhere between the ages of fifty five and seventy, like, hey, this is what I went through to give them an understanding that mentor may not understand anything about the analytics of hitting, but they also were pitching or whatever the case may be, but they do have the experience. How do you think that that would go over with some of the young coaching staffs and the managers.

00:26:43
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic idea. And actually Ryan Christiansen's our bench coach, and he came.

00:26:48
Speaker 3: Up through the Oakland system right with Keith Lippman, who was the field coordinator, field director, farm director there.

00:26:56
Speaker 2: For I think over thirty years.

00:26:59
Speaker 3: And what he would do is take all these new coaches and he'd have them meet in spring training at six a m. Prior to anybody getting there, and for an hour they'd read these books on leadership and then they'd discuss it in an open forum as as young coaches. And I never knew that that existed. And Ryan told me the other day about that, and I said, man, that is just fantastic. That's a great idea. So you're essentially coaching the coaches before they get to the players, and yeah, it's a phenomenal idea and I and I think it would really help. You know, there's so many young coaches that are out there now that I can speak to, you know, in our system, you know young managers that you know, they just want you to come and sit in their office and chat.

00:27:47
Speaker 2: With them about whatever.

00:27:49
Speaker 3: The game, the the preparation and how how is this for you and how did you go through this? And so there there, there, there's a there's plenty of opportunity for a roube and and I think you're on something there. I think it'd be a great idea.

00:28:03
Speaker 1: Pat when you when you're asked about maybe different players that you played with, I'm curious, is there a spacific Phillies teammate that maybe you bring up more than most in terms of stories or you know, examples.

00:28:20
Speaker 2: I'm thinking of a guy like Chase.

00:28:22
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many good stories you know about toughness, grind, attitude, anything like that.

00:28:31
Speaker 2: Well, you nailed it round ahead.

00:28:32
Speaker 3: I mean, guys asked me all the time, what was your You know, Chase and I were pretty close off the field as well, but you know they always ask who is your you know, best teammate, best player you played with, all this stuff, and the question always comes down to the It always comes back to Chase. And it wasn't because of how good of a player he was really because he was fantastic, but it was the way he went about it and his preparation.

00:29:04
Speaker 2: The toughness is.

00:29:07
Speaker 3: It's so hard to put into words, but you know, I tell stories about things that he did and and during the games, and you know, I don't know if you guys heard the seel Pweague story in Los Angeles and how that went. I mean that that is perfect. I mean it is absolutely perfect. That encapsulates the whole thing. It's all about the team, all about winning, and it just goes to show you you can you can literally play this game and hustle every single play and not be too tired.

00:29:43
Speaker 5: You gotta share the story. You gotta share the story. There's tony people out there want to hear it.

00:29:47
Speaker 2: The peak stuff.

00:29:50
Speaker 4: Do you want to tell you?

00:29:52
Speaker 3: And I don't know if I should tell it because I heard it the same way Todd that you did. But essentially, Dodgers were up I think five runs in the eighth and Puig was on second base and he was dancing around on second base and he ended up stealing third and.

00:30:10
Speaker 2: The Dodgers had a huge lead and the game was out of reach.

00:30:14
Speaker 3: And the hitter actually fouled off the ball, so you know, it didn't look too terrible.

00:30:21
Speaker 2: So he had to go back to second.

00:30:22
Speaker 3: But I remember the story being that Dave Roberts they were playing Milwaukee, and so he looked over to Council in the dugout and just basically gave him the sign I'm sorry, we didn't you know, we didn't send him. He went on his own, and so Utley was on deck and I don't know who was catching. So the story is not that great. But when Utley got up to the box, he said, look, I want you to go out to the mound.

00:30:51
Speaker 2: I want you to tell the pitcher to hit me right in the back.

00:30:55
Speaker 3: And the catcher is looking at him and going are you you know you can't be serious. He goes, yes, I want you to go out there and tell him to hit me right in the back. It's the only way that he'll learn what this is really about.

00:31:13
Speaker 1: Well, at a quick attendum of that, oh yeah, yeah, but Chase told the catchers, says, and if you don't, I'll clean up my language.

00:31:21
Speaker 2: He said.

00:31:21
Speaker 1: He told the catchers, and if you don't have him go out there and throw at me, you're a bunch of Woosies.

00:31:26
Speaker 2: So then the picture.

00:31:27
Speaker 1: Then the pitcher then throws the next pitch does not hit Chase. Chase looks down and looks at the catcher goes, whoosy.

00:31:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm telling you there was one that I don't know, Rube, you might remember this.

00:31:45
Speaker 2: We were in Atlanta.

00:31:48
Speaker 3: And this was I think about the time where analytics was starting to trickle in, and we had to have this offensive meeting. Even though I think we were scoring seven runs a game, but we we had difficulty getting the guy in from third with lesson with one out or less than two outs, and I remember thinking, well, yeah, but we have one hundred more opportunities than everybody else, so this doesn't you know anyway, So we get this spiel, and you know, the message was, let's take some focus and if we get a guy on third but listen to out, let's let's get him in. So of course, that night, Hu chases up with the guy on third. It was probably Jimmy or Victorino, and I was on deck and so I'm thinking to myself, God, we just had this talk. Of all people, this is the right guy to have up. And so Infield comes in and he tops this ball. To first base, and I think it was Adam la Roache was playing first and he comes home and the way Utlely he came around the ball, so he was actually out in fair territory.

00:33:00
Speaker 4: I remember this, I do remember. This is awesome.

00:33:04
Speaker 3: And so l Roach fields the ball and he's gonna throw home and Utlely jumps up in the air.

00:33:11
Speaker 8: To to get hit by the but to get hit by the ball that the run would score and the airmails would catcher. Everybody's safe and Brian mc Brian mccannon's up next to me on deck and we're walking back to home plate, and.

00:33:29
Speaker 2: He says, did that really happen? I go, I think it did. I think I think it actually did.

00:33:34
Speaker 3: And I I don't even know if it's legal, but I don't think anyone's gonna call anything. It happened so fast and no one's really sure. But he did definitely jump up in the air.

00:33:45
Speaker 7: He tried to head but I think he tried to head but the ball or something.

00:33:48
Speaker 3: He tried to get hit by the ball that the run score.

00:33:53
Speaker 2: It turns out that the wrung scored.

00:33:55
Speaker 3: And I can't tell you what I did in my bat, but I remember just talking to McCann the whole time.

00:34:01
Speaker 2: Going that's it's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable.

00:34:05
Speaker 5: But there's so many questions I'd love to ask you down memory lane type of questions. But every time I see Stairs his home run in Dodger Stadium that night, I see you, like on the top step and you're going nuts.

00:34:17
Speaker 4: And I've heard a description about.

00:34:21
Speaker 5: Your your description of the moment, which I don't know is suitable for all years, but it was pretty awesome.

00:34:27
Speaker 4: But Charlie's there.

00:34:29
Speaker 5: And what was You still see that moment in that home run or you a big double in O eight and in the World Series?

00:34:37
Speaker 4: You still see those moments?

00:34:39
Speaker 2: And I see him all the time.

00:34:42
Speaker 3: I talk about the double a lot with our guys because.

00:34:46
Speaker 2: There was a lot of failure that led up to that.

00:34:49
Speaker 3: But the Stairs staying, you know via bat, I mean, it's it's Broxton, right, and you know it's it's high nineties fastball and it's a a stating slider. So Stairs is you know, he's gonna swing a mess and he's and he's gonna try to do one thing, and he practiced doing one thing all the time, and to me, it was a situation where if he got into the right count and he got the pitch, then it was whether or not he could do it.

00:35:19
Speaker 2: And the build up to it, you know, was it one to oh? Was it oh?

00:35:23
Speaker 7: One?

00:35:24
Speaker 3: And then it got to three to one, and it was a situation where it was Mono Imano and he threw the pitch and it happened just like we had hoped it would happen.

00:35:36
Speaker 2: And those moments are rare that you build them up and they actually happened.

00:35:39
Speaker 3: And and I think that's why we saw the excitement from the dugout, because you.

00:35:44
Speaker 2: Know, that's what he was there to do.

00:35:46
Speaker 3: Uh, and he actually came through and did it. And so it's a moment that I can't forget. But uh, the double you're talking about. You know, I had struggled so badly in that series again, put a lot of pressure on myself to do something different than I had probably done all year, wanting to be a pivotal piece of that World Series and probably coming out of my game plan a little bit.

00:36:13
Speaker 2: But I remember the after he threw the second or third curveball in the row, I go, look, you've done this. Your whole life just hit stop the noise, you know, and and just see it.

00:36:29
Speaker 3: Just just see it and remember all the hours and all the stuff that the preparation that you've put in and and then to go in there and believe it right is the big thing. And so uh, trust me, I wish it would have gone over the fence, but it had have been a better story. But the fact that that run ended up being the winning run is you know, it's just a fantastic memory. And you know, coming off the field knowing that you know, that might be my last time out there with the Phillies was also you.

00:37:01
Speaker 2: Know, kind of a big moment for me as well.

00:37:04
Speaker 3: And then you know, Brad Ledge coming in and doing what he did, what he did is just it was a remarkable year. It was magical. It was supposed to happen. It was the right time. You know, the organization had built from within this this this group of guys that really cared about each other and really cared about winning, and.

00:37:28
Speaker 2: You know, it all came, it all came full circle that night.

00:37:30
Speaker 5: What did it mean to you to be you know, to lead the parade, sit on that fire engine and then I don't I want to get this and cheated I'm.

00:37:40
Speaker 2: Sorry I got cheated.

00:37:42
Speaker 3: Those guys in the back were all drinking beers and having a blast.

00:37:46
Speaker 2: I did think about that.

00:37:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm out there by myself. You know, I wanted to be with the boys. But you know, what are you going to say? You know, of course it's a huge honor, and I'll never forget it, don't get me wrong. But I kept looking back and everyone shot gun and beers. I mean, then are throwing bottles of whiskey up on the thing, and I'm thinking, God, that's and I'm so nervous about these horses because the people kept coming close and I'm thinking, man, And then one guy actually did get get kicked by a horse when he got too close.

00:38:24
Speaker 2: And I mean, it was a it was a it was a great day. It was a long day.

00:38:28
Speaker 3: I think I had the best view of everybody there, you know, coming around, I guess I guess market when we turned onto Broad Street that I was the first guy to get a look at that.

00:38:41
Speaker 2: And that was that was.

00:38:45
Speaker 3: When Mike Schmidt and all those guys would come back and talk about the parade. I don't think any of us really ever thought about the parade being the best part of the deal, but it certainly was for me. And it was that moment when I came around broad Street that.

00:38:58
Speaker 2: That the sea of Red or whatever we want to call it. It was just just overwhelming it. It really did bring it all home for me.

00:39:08
Speaker 4: Did you know Chase was going to do what he did during the speech?

00:39:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, because.

00:39:15
Speaker 3: We got up on that stage and there was a couple of announcements and stuff and other people were speaking, and he leaned over and he said, do you think this is live?

00:39:25
Speaker 2: And I go, well, uh, I'm sure it's live at some level. I'm sure someone's recording this. And I said why.

00:39:35
Speaker 3: He goes, well, I was thinking about saying something that maybe I go, well, listen, if anybody can say anything, it's us to.

00:39:42
Speaker 2: Just go for it. I mean, and I didn't know what he was going to say, but I thought it was perfect. You know, probably it was perfect. It was perfect. It was perfect, awesome, awesome stuff. Matte, Thanks so much.

00:39:59
Speaker 5: Matt always seemed to me, you guys were so happy for Charlie.

00:40:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you played You played for Boach He's got what four rings? Now?

00:40:08
Speaker 5: You played for Charlie's got a ring, Madden's got a ring? You played for some really decorated managers.

00:40:14
Speaker 2: And all different, all different.

00:40:16
Speaker 5: Give us a little bit on what made them different, What you liked about him, what you love about Charlie.

00:40:22
Speaker 2: Well, Charlie, I mean, how do you not love I mean, you know, you got it. It's all for me. The experience of coming up with Francona.

00:40:32
Speaker 3: Who everybody just loved, The players loved him, you know, and playing that first, you know, four months of the season with Terry, and then everybody got fired pretty for the most part, right, and it started over with the Larry Boa era, which I don't know that any of us were ready for that, but I will tell you, I think I learned the most about baseball from Larry. I think about preparation, about attitude, about a sense of urgency about playing.

00:41:06
Speaker 2: I I I I think.

00:41:09
Speaker 3: About Larry and the stuff he taught uh more than more than anybody.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: And you know you talk about wanting to win more than anybody. I mean, good God.

00:41:21
Speaker 3: And then you know, once our our our draft guys kept coming, and then there were some additions and the and Cole Hamil's came along, you know, and and Charlie was now in the picture.

00:41:34
Speaker 2: Uh, it was just easy.

00:41:37
Speaker 3: You know, we we got to the ballpark, it felt like somehow he was able to lessen the pressure of the moment, which in that town is is quite.

00:41:49
Speaker 2: A feat, you know.

00:41:52
Speaker 3: And then obviously playing for Charlie for a couple of years and then going to Joe, who was just completely in the other direction with the the analytics and you know, the super utility roles came around, and you know, ah, we're not going to hit on day games. I mean, all the routine stuff that I was used to was completely out the window. But Joe's a fantastic guy and really really smart about baseball. Unfortunately, I just didn't play very good down there and got released. And then I get to BOCI and it was just we really thought very similarly about the game, and uh formed a great relationship there, and you.

00:42:36
Speaker 2: Know, I know he had been a long time coming for him.

00:42:38
Speaker 3: You know, he'd been around twelve or thirteen years in San Diego and then had spent you know, considerable time in San Francisco, and so, uh, it was a magical time in San Francisco as well.

00:42:52
Speaker 7: That's great stuff, great stuff, all right, boys, thanks so much for the time.

00:42:57
Speaker 2: Thank you.

00:42:59
Speaker 1: That that was awesome. Thanks again to Pat Burrell for spending some time with us. If you are new to The Phillies Show and you like what you heard, please give us a follow, Tell a friend, tell a neighbor, tell your mom and dad.

00:43:15
Speaker 2: Help spread the word.

00:43:17
Speaker 1: Phillies Giants four game series beginning Friday night at Citizens Bank Park. The Phillies Show will be back next week. Thanks everybody,