Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep13 - Canine Nutrition Potpourri with Magda Chiarella

1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,720
I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:15,160
and this is a Puppy Culture
potluck podcast.

3
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,840
You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.

4
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,880
Today I'm joined by my good friend
and fellow dog

5
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,120
breeder, Magda Chiarella of Dig-n-Pop
Norwich Terriers.

6
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,200
Welcome, Magda. Hi, Jane.

7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,440
Thank you for coming.
Well, thanks. for having me.

8
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,600
So if Magda is here, you know, it's got to
be in nutrition conversation, right?

9
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,400
Because Magda is the person

10
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,920
that is, I would say, obsessed
with learning about nutrition.

11
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,520
And whenever I have a question,
I ask Magda.

12
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,160
So before I read the question,
I just want to position it a little bit

13
00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:53,880
in that the question is about

14
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,000
the folate shake recipe that Magda has

15
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:04,040
that you can find this recipe
if you go to Madcap University.

16
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,280
I have an article under Free Resources

17
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:09,600
and it's called Folate

18
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,040
for Brood Bitches,
and we have a link to the recipe there.

19
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,520
Okay, so we're not really going
to talk about the recipe, but

20
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,880
I'm just going to position it by saying
the recipe is a way to supplement folate

21
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,000
for pregnant bitches
to prevent midline closure defects.

22
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,800
Basically, some,

23
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,600
some midline closure, closure defects,
which is that's another podcast.

24
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:33,480
Okay.

25
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,360
But this is specifically
about that recipe.

26
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,880
And it generated some really good
conversation around the ingredients

27
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,360
that I want to bring Magda here today
to talk to you about.

28
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:50,240
So here's the question.

29
00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,240
I found a recipe for dog slushie
for pregnant females.

30
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:59,280
Its ingredients are baby
kale, baby spinach,

31
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,000
coconut water and flaxseed meal.

32
00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:08,000
All ingredients, according to Google,
are safe except for kale.

33
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,040
Google says

34
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,280
new studies show it can cause
kidney and bladder stones.

35
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,000
Any advice?

36
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,080
I'd love to supplement this
to my pregnant girls,

37
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:25,040
but if the kale thing is a fact,
I'll take it out of the list.

38
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,320
I would love to know some input.

39
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:29,720
Oh, yes.

40
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,920
And this is a Puppy Culture recipe.

41
00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,960
Well, it's a it's a Magda recipe
that we put up on Puppy Culture. So.

42
00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,720
Well, I'll be happy to answer.

43
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,840
Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about the kale.

44
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,640
I would like to very briefly
put it in context.

45
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:45,600
Okay.

46
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,520
That particular recipe

47
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,600
is part of a rotation of recipes

48
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,200
that I use in a specific time in gestation

49
00:02:55,640 --> 00:03:00,000
when having an additional

50
00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,560
bioavailable folate, which is B-6 vitamin

51
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,480
in natural form, is very beneficial
for the pregnant dog.

52
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,800
So it's not

53
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,000
fed instead of ...

54
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,440
It’s not a sustenance recipe ...

55
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,200
It’s a sustenance, it's in addition
to it's just like a little health pill.

56
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,600
So it's an add on.

57
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,880
It's fed in rotation with other things.

58
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,480
It's not every meal. It's not day
in and out.

59
00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,800
It's not for a prolonged period of time.

60
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,560
So I have to answer this
from that context.

61
00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,880
I do not know how bad kale can effect
a dog

62
00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,560
fed in great quantities
over a long period of time.

63
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,280
And whether that can contribute to some,

64
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,160
you know, already genetically predisposed
dogs to have stones.

65
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,080
I just don't know that.

66
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,760
I know that that link exists

67
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,760
and I know that the quantity

68
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:08,440
that this particular recipe asks
for absolutely are safe.

69
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,720
And you cannot
even if you tried to create stones

70
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,040
just with that quantity,
you will not be able to,

71
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,400
so a healthy dog that is pregnant
would benefit from it.

72
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,480
And I am not concerned about that link of

73
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,080
certain compounds possibly contributing

74
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,560
to formation of stones in individuals
that already have that predisposition.

75
00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,640
Yeah,
I mean, I think it's like a lot of things

76
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:44,880
that if you gave the dog a bale of kale,
I mean, probably, yeah, not so great,

77
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,280
but it's not like raisins or chocolate
that, yeah, the dogs can get sick.

78
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:51,840
It’s not like that at all.

79
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,440
And it is a superfood.

80
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,200
It is an incredibly nutritious plant food.

81
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,360
I am here specifically

82
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,120
using it for its folate content, but

83
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,480
it's accompanied by so many other vitamins
and so many other minerals.

84
00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,200
It's really this

85
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,120
amazing It’s a health punch Right?

86
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,640
And baby
kale is not the same as hard stem to kale.

87
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,120
Oh, okay.

88
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,360
Baby kale has

89
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,440
more nutrition per

90
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:30,360
weight.

91
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,320
And most of those oxalate

92
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,240
and components
that you want to avoid, even.

93
00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,680
When it comes to stones.

94
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,760
When it comes to stone,
they tend to be in the stems

95
00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,720
in these wooded,
you know, more wooded stems of.

96
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,840
Which the baby kale doesn't have. Right.

97
00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:54,400
So baby kale is, first of all, already

98
00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,560
not as much of a concern.

99
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,360
And secondly, it's in the amounts
that, yeah.

100
00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:05,160
It's not as much.

101
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,840
And I think I think you do mention
that if you are going to give regular kale

102
00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:11,840
to strip the take out the ribs
Take out the ribs.

103
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:12,720
Right.

104
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:13,280
Yeah.

105
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:14,760
And even I mean probably

106
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,160
it would be fine to leave the ribs,
but it's just an abundance of caution.

107
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,400
And I will say that I specifically

108
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,120
like to use substitutions
and offer options.

109
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,760
So I say baby kale or spinach.

110
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,760
And I found that some of my pregnant dogs
prefer one over the other.

111
00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:39,560
And then I listen to them.

112
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,000
I always use both. I mix it up.

113
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,040
That was that was the OG recipe,
Magda was both.

114
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:46,160
So I go with that

115
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:48,640
and they like it.

116
00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,000
So. Okay.

117
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,200
I think we cleared up the kidney
and bladder stones.

118
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,520
We cleared that up.

119
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,880
So now let's move on to the flaxseed meal
because people had a lot

120
00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,520
to say about that.

121
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,600
Somebody pointed out
flax is also a phytoestrogen.

122
00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:07,120
I won't even use dog foods
that include this as an ingredient

123
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,760
with any of my adult dogs
that will be bred eventually.

124
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,600
I applaud you on being aware of the link

125
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,240
between phytoestrogens and

126
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:23,160
hormonal receptors
within the body of a dog.

127
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,720
It is important to avoid

128
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,080
phytoestrogenic foods
for our breeding animals,

129
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,560
but when we say that
we mean a specific type of phytoestrogens,

130
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,320
we warn against isoflavonoids.

131
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,640
Okay.

132
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,280
These are basically legumes,

133
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,440
chickpeas, peas, soy.

134
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,000
And when you look at the ingredient list
or some of the kibble products,

135
00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,360
you might see seven,
eight mentions of different legumes.

136
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,160
They are so broken down. So, so

137
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,480
they are not

138
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,120
as apparent to us,
but they might be listed

139
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,920
as pea next to pea meal.

140
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,640
It's really pretty big problem.

141
00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,880
However,
when we're talking about flax meal or flax

142
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,760
seed, we are talking about phytoestrogens
that are termed

143
00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,520
lignans and lignans are forming

144
00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,320
a different subcategory of phytoestrogens

145
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,760
that actually have very different effect
on the body.

146
00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:40,440
They do not affect the same receptors
and they also have been studied

147
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,080
for beneficial effect
on reproductive health

148
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,000
and beneficial effects,
specifically in dogs and cats.

149
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:49,640
Oh, interesting.

150
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,800
So, so flaxseed is good.

151
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,360
So flaxseed is actually a good thing.

152
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,160
Now, I just want to also back up
because she,

153
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,520
she mentions that she wouldn't

154
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,800
use dog foods that include phytoestrogens

155
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,000
in any of her adult dogs
that will be bred eventually.

156
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,920
Is there a difference
whether they're going to be.

157
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,240
But there is.

158
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,240
Oh There is a difference
because such a huge population of dogs

159
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,520
in the United States are spayed
or neutered

160
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,680
that manufacturers of dog food

161
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,440
have understood and recognized

162
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:34,320
that it is a good thing
to deliver some supplemental estrogen.

163
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:42,000
And there is estrogenic workings
of legumes that is positive on the dogs

164
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,800
that don't have reproductive organs
to produce the hormones.

165
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,520
So I just I want to back up here
and make sure I have this straight

166
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,600
and I'm going to back chain number one.

167
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,360
We know now that there are two different
kinds, at least there's three,

168
00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,000
but two different kinds of phytoestrogens
that we're dealing with.

169
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,440
There's Isoflavones
and there's lignans lignans.

170
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:04,920
Okay.

171
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,960
The Isoflavones are the things that are in

172
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,280
like chickpeas and stuff like that
and, you know, legumes.

173
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,480
And those are
the ones that are going to interfere

174
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,800
with the endocrine system of an animal
that is intact and breeding

175
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,920
and could interfere
with reproductive capacity.

176
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,920
But and I'm just going to

177
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,520
like go on this for a minute
because this is news to me.

178
00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,640
It never occurred to me that a dog
that doesn't have their

179
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,240
reproductive hormones
would actually benefit from that.

180
00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,560
Like, is there an outside limit
to how much they should have? Or.

181
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,040
I don't think that has been studied well,
but there are papers

182
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:49,040
and there is a research
that shows beneficial effect of soy

183
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,040
and legume based dog

184
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,200
food on hormones in desexed animals.

185
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,440
Wow, that's amazing.

186
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,520
So if you are a dog food feeder,
I mean, a kibble feeder,

187
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,720
it really behooves
you probably to be feeding

188
00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,880
your neutered animals
and your under animals different foods.

189
00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,160
Absolutely. Wow, That's crazy.

190
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,760
Okay. So I learned something today.

191
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:14,600
Okay.

192
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,080
Before I move on to the next thing,

193
00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,440
I am just going to throw out here
that we're not going to talk about,

194
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,320
you know, the grain free

195
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,400
taurine and, you know,
the dilated cardiomyopathy thing.

196
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,200
That's a whole different
to do with proteins.

197
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,120
Has to do
with a completely different thing.

198
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,200
Right so I know some people are going
to be like, oh, you know, pea meal.

199
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:35,160
It's a grain free.

200
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,600
No, but, you know, that's another podcast.

201
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,800
So we're not going to talk about that.

202
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,440
But to sum up flax seed lignans,

203
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,480
legumes, isoflavones oats.

204
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,080
So very different. Very different.

205
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,560
Okay, so we don't have to worry
about the flax seed.

206
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,600
But wait, we're not done
because somebody else has said;

207
00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,960
Flaxseed
meal can lead to cyanide poisoning.

208
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,280
The amounts are moderate.

209
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:06,320
A tablespoon of higher cyanide flaxseed
meal at once can cause negative effects

210
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,720
in adult humans, and a third of a teaspoon
is dangerous for toddlers.

211
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,800
The effects of long term low dose

212
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,160
exposure hasn't been studied.

213
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,880
If you are going to change an ingredient.

214
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,760
I changed the flaxseed meal personally.

215
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,320
Cyanide

216
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,760
is an issue,

217
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,000
especially for humans.

218
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:31,560
Okay.

219
00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,960
And it's a little bit counterintuitive.

220
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,800
And something that surprised me
the first time that I was looking into it.

221
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:43,560
But humans are ten times more susceptible

222
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,160
to cyanide being at the toxicity

223
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,760
threshold
where the body reacts to it than dogs.

224
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,640
And actually a lot of other mammals,
when they were studying it

225
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,800
on rats and mice, they saw the same thing.

226
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,360
A little mouse can deal
with much more cyanide than a human.

227
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,360
So first of all, yes, human toddlers

228
00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,640
have been studied for toxicity of cyanide

229
00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,560
compounds
like the ones within the flaxseed.

230
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,560
However, another thing that

231
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:23,160
we now know,
and it's actually very new study

232
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,280
that just came out last year, and that is

233
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,840
that adult human body
and also most mammals

234
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,960
is able to detoxify cyanide components
within its own body.

235
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,000
So the toxicity threshold is

236
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,920
much, much higher
than we previously thought.

237
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,400
Yeah.
I mean, people have been eating flaxseed

238
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,000
meal forever and you'd

239
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,800
think that we'd be dropping like flies
or you'd hear about it.

240
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,160
So. Well, there was some concern

241
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:58,680
with the fact that we now started
crushing the seeds and selling

242
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,760
flax seeds as flax meal, which released

243
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,400
all those wonderful beneficial ingredients
locked within the seed.

244
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,720
But alongside this
there was a cyanide as well.

245
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,720
So there's cyanide
was all of a sudden in the news

246
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,960
because it was something that people were

247
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,440
noticing toxicity in babies.

248
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,480
Okay, so to sum it up, number one, it's

249
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,480
a limited amount, a flaxseed meal

250
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,400
given
for a limited amount of time to an animal

251
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,960
that has ten times the capacity
for handling whatever cyanide is in it.

252
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,400
So and the animal that's an adult.

253
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,720
And now we know that
it pretty much can detoxify it naturally.

254
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,560
Okay. After digesting it.

255
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,840
I mean, listen, it's not you know, it's
not to say if your dog

256
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,840
got into a bag of flaxseed meal

257
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,760
and ate the whole thing,
that it might not get sick

258
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,000
or there might be the odd dog
that has a problem.

259
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:00,840
But I mean, it could be.

260
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,360
A teaspoon in a shake that you

261
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,480
I think I put like a tablespoon
and it lasts like two weeks.

262
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:10,840
Yeah. A teaspoon. And,
you know, for a couple of days.

263
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:11,640
Yes. Yeah.

264
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,360
So mine, I feed even less so.

265
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,720
There you go. Okay.

266
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,600
I'm then somebody asked
about flax oil for horses.

267
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,560
And I know you're not a horse expert, but

268
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,520
you did say that they take cyanide
out of oil.

269
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:30,920
Flaxseed oil?

270
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,080
Flaxseed oil does not have cyanide.

271
00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,320
Just the process of extracting oil. Yes.

272
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,520
So why don't we just give flax oil
instead of flax?

273
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,560
We could give flax flaxseed oil.

274
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,960
And, you know, it's something
to absolutely add to two dog's main meals.

275
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,000
And that's something

276
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,000
I'm in favor of.

277
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
It's just specifically for that recipe.

278
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,200
There's more benefits to the meal.

279
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,440
I was using it as a as a thickener

280
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,040
and just a different.

281
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,040
I don't think that flaxseed oil is

282
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,040
as palatable to dogs,
you know, if it's not alongside meats.

283
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:12,680
Interesting.

284
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,080
There is a product

285
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,800
on the market, thats meal, that

286
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,160
is already free of cyanide.

287
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,040
But the process of getting cyanide out,

288
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,760
it's a steaming process
also kills enzymes.

289
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,320
And some of these vitamins are just,
you know,

290
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,960
affected by it as well.

291
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:42,160
So then somebody else wrote:
Whole seeds aren't as much as a concern

292
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,720
because being so small,
they tend not to be crushed when eaten

293
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,360
and the cyanide
causing component stays within the seed.

294
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,840
That is very true.

295
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,840
Except then you also don't
get the benefits right.

296
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:53,520
You know.

297
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,640
So it's that you know the other side
down the flipside of crushing seeds.

298
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,160
You release all the good stuff
and you are also releasing

299
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,800
the tiny amount of cyanide. Gotcha.

300
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,600
Oh, here's the next one.

301
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,000
Pesticides on produce
like this is my concern.

302
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,680
Get organic.

303
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,200
That's my concern, too. Yes, get organic.

304
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,800
All of our concern,
which is another reason to use the baby.

305
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,080
Right. The baby kale.

306
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,600
The baby spinach,
because I think it's always organic.

307
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:26,120
They don't really spray the tiny ones,
do they?

308
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:26,960
I don't think so.

309
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,200
I don't think they do at all.

310
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:30,760
Oh, all right.

311
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,480
We're moving on to spinach, Magda.

312
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,400
Now, this person says Spinach

313
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,920
limits the absorption of calcium.

314
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,960
Oh, that's an interesting question.

315
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,640
Spinach is a very a calcium rich food.

316
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:51,960
Spinach is often quoted as one of the most
calcium rich plant derived foods.

317
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,960
However, because oxalate is also contained
within spinach oxalate

318
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,760
prevents absorption of calcium.

319
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,760
So although you will see that sometimes

320
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,240
in lab reports, it is shown that calcium

321
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,080
amount

322
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,600
within the spinach is just tremendous.

323
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,400
The actual available calcium
within the spinach is diminished

324
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,960
by the fact
that oxalate blocks absorption.

325
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,800
So it's true that there is a component

326
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,240
of spinach blocking calcium absorption

327
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,160
from within spinach

328
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,360
and small percentage

329
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,320
is is of that calcium is available to us.

330
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,560
It's still a positively calcium rich food.

331
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,280
So in other words, it doesn't block like
if you eat spinach and a piece of liver,

332
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,280
it's not going to block the calcium
or or an egg or whatever has milk.

333
00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,280
On on the balance, be a calcium
plus thing to to have.

334
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,600
Interesting. Okay. Well,
there you go. Okay.

335
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,640
So I'm going to read this last comment,
which is from a woman who's a doctor up in

336
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,040
Canada who's always has something
good to say, and this is no exception.

337
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,760
The popularity of kale is pretty recent.

338
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,280
And if these truly are new studies,

339
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,600
it's possible
that there is a low level risk

340
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,280
that has only become apparent as more
dogs are exposed.

341
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,560
It is also possible that the risk is not

342
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,600
uniform across all breeds of dogs.

343
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,640
It could be that the determining factor
is whether the dog in question

344
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,040
is already predisposed to stones
and kale increases that risk.

345
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,560
If the article you found has references,
it would be important to take a careful

346
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,360
look at those and see what the risk
actually is.

347
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,680
Lots of things get set on Google
that have a pretty weak foundation,

348
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,120
so if it isn't a peer
reviewed scientific paper,

349
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,480
my first step is always to try and dig out

350
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,520
where the statement came from.

351
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,680
When it comes to canine
health, it's amazing how many confident

352
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,680
assertions are completely unfounded.

353
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,280
I agree with all of it, and especially

354
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,200
especially with looking at every dog
as an individual

355
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,720
and recognizing that breed differences
are not only external.

356
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,360
That breed, different differences

357
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,440
are for sure internal as well.

358
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,680
So you will have some breeds
predisposed to stones,

359
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,280
while others
might not be to the same degree.

360
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,360
And definitely individuals.

361
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:48,720
Right.

362
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,760
And even again, you're not we're not going
to talk about the whole midline closure

363
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,880
defect folate supplementation, because,
again, we'll do that another time.

364
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,440
But, you know,
if there's not a uniform risk over

365
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,920
breeds of this, there's not a uniform
need for this food over breeds.

366
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,840
And, you know,
some might need more than others.

367
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,920
And I guess, you know,
all I really wanted to do

368
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,800
today was kind of

369
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,360
separate the wheat from the chaff
a bit with some of these things and,

370
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:19,200
you know,

371
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,200
just get to the bottom

372
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,760
of a couple common questions
that come up all the time on the boards.

373
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,400
And I think And I love the questions
because they show scrutiny

374
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,120
of those things that we put up there.

375
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,040
I like hearing questions
because they make me think

376
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,560
sometimes, you know,
did I make a mistake or not?

377
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,280
And I do that too,
because I'm always seeing

378
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,440
in the corner of my eyes
every headline about nutrition.

379
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,800
And I rush to dive deep into it
immediately.

380
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:54,680
And, you know, sometimes I change my mind
or sometimes I discover

381
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,600
there is something new.

382
00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:01,080
So that that is a very important thing
for us to constantly reevaluate.

383
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,640
Is it right what we are doing,

384
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,280
how we are feeding our dogs.

385
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,280
But I am confident about that recipe.

386
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,720
Yeah, that's great.

387
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,160
To your point, I think that
when you put out a recipe like this

388
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,560
and then people ask these questions,
it also makes you a better teacher

389
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,520
because like, oh, you know,
I have to explain that.

390
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,760
It's that old thing.

391
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,800
Give someone directions
how to make a peanut butter

392
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,760
and jelly sandwich and, you know,
how many ways could it go wrong?

393
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:27,120
Yeah.

394
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:31,560
So thank you very much, you guys, for
those really great comments and questions.

395
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:31,960
Yeah.

396
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,560
And thank you Magda
for coming and helping us.

397
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,440
Thanks Jane.

398
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,960
Always fun.

399
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,680
If you like this podcast,
you'll love our puppy course

400
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,400
available at madcapuniversity.com.

401
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:53,160
Breeders, we have a course for you too
at madcapuniversity.com.

402
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,360
And if you're interested in sending home
a copy of our puppy course

403
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,000
with your puppy owners,
we offer a nice breeder

404
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,200
discount
on four or more copies of the course.

405
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,320
Well, that's it for this time.

406
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,000
Thanks for listening.

407
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:23,520
Bye bye.