Seth Waugh on Frisco, LIV, and the PGA of America's Recent Moves

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.

00:00:02
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 1: And when I find my ball in a bride egg Frida Egg, the dreaded Frida Egg, Frida Egg Egg, bride egg.

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Speaker 3: Lie, I'm about ready to run off the golf course. Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. Today's episode is with Seth Wah. Seth is the CEO the PGA, and uh, you know, an interesting guy. He's had a lot of life experience that he obviously was in banking before he became the CEO of the PGA, and I was really excited to talk to him, mostly because of his involvement in recent golf developments, whether it be PGA Frisco, which will be a high profile opening, or another one that hasn't gotten as much as buzz is PGA Frisco that I'm probably more excited about. It's called the Park. He has been the lead investor in a group of investors that have revitalized the former West Palm Beach Municipal Course. So they operate as a private public partnership and they have renovated the golf course. Gil Hans renovated the golf course and it is opening in April, so it will be a really exciting new public golf course in an area that's got a lot of public golf but not a lot of good public golf West Palm Beach. So we talk about that as well, a little bit at the end about Live and the PGA and his thoughts on Live. So without further ado, here is seth wah. So something while I was getting ready for the that I chuckled about and thought about a person in your position. I have to know, like, how often is it a daily occurrence that you have to explain to somebody that the PGA of America and the PGA Tour are different organizations.

00:02:16
Speaker 1: It used to be hourly, it's now down to daily, and uh, you know, half my friends think I've got Jay's job right, and and it at certain times that's convenient, like they don't necessarily correct him. But you know a lot of times you'll just get people going like, oh, geez, were you and Hawaii over the weekend? And I go, well, no, that was that's the other guys. But it you know it, it is confusing, and you certainly wouldn't set up golf, you know, the ecosystem, the way that it's set up, if you were starting today, right, it's a lot of initials and a lot of confusion. I think the good news is we're you know, when I first got in the room, the uh, I think everybody sort of viewed each other as competitors and and it was sort of you know how, you know whatever. And I was in one of the first meetings. We was talking about the rules changes, and Jay kind of you know, I was at the players and he sort of goes, hey, I know we're all competitors here, but we've got to come together on this. And I said, wha, you're you're my partner, you know, my competitor. Like I borrow your players like once or twice a year, and LPGA, you know, once a year. And you know, we're we're the board of directors of the game, and like we are you know, of golf ink and we've got to think about the game first rather than you know, our own individual kind of swimming lanes. Right. And the interesting thing about the PGA is that we you know, everybody's kind of got their lane. We sort of have the whole pool, right, because we've got we've got, you know, at the highest level. Obviously, we've got the Ryder cop We've got PGA Championship, we've got KPMG Women's PGA uh and then you know, we've got twenty eight thousands, so we're of the largest sports organization on Earth, and we've got the boots on the ground and sort of the army to activate things. So we touched the game, you know, your first shot, your last shot, from the junior level to veterans to you know, everything in between, right, and so you know, I feel like we should have the most informed voice and hopefully the most balanced voice in the game because we touched it at every level. Right.

00:04:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, your comment about if you were setting things up like from scratch, how golf would be so much different. You think about all the sports leagues and the idea that like the golf calendar is kind of like it's got you know, the PGA Tour running most of the events, but then you've got four other organizations parachuting in and running an event a year that are the biggest ones of the year. So it's kind of it's a wild setup and absolutely wouldn't be the way you'd set it up if you wanted to start from scratch.

00:04:57
Speaker 1: It makes no sense. And you know you have you know, they and the PJ Tour doesn't control the rules, right and and by the way, you have an international rule body and a domestic rule body, like what how does that make sense? Now they cooperate and it makes sense. But if this was a you know, if golf was a company, it would have been rolled up a long time ago, right because of the the inefficiencies. And it's okay, like I think there's checks and balances, there's plus and minuses to it. I think we are you know. And Jay did an amazing job of COVID in COVID, of of balancing that and realizing how important the majors were to the ecosystem, right, and he made sure to carve out dates so that we all could have our week, you know, at considerable cost of them, because that meant they couldn't hold on that week, right, you know. And so it's you know, the good news about it all is uh, you know, for whatever reason, probably because I'm just old, but you know, I've I've known all these folks for a long time. You know. Jay was my tournament director at at Deutsche Bank. Championship back in the day and and has been a great friend for you know, twenty five years. And then you've got you know, Martin Slumbers, who I worked with at Deutsche Bank for a dozen or so years, and known Fred Ridley since you know the nineties, and and got to know Mike better in the last you know, five years or so. But you know, knew Mike Davis. Well, it's a you know, golf, as you know, becomes a pretty small world. Uh, you know, hopefully in a healthy way.

00:06:34
Speaker 2: That's the thing.

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Speaker 3: What do you When you start out, it feels really big, but then the more you get into it, you realize how small it is. And uh, it's if you could take us back, I'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, the months preceding that PGA at Hardick Park and and really the I mean, I feel like you guys kind of obviously nobody knew really what the right thing would to do was, and that was you know, the tour started a couple weeks before that. But having a major obviously you know, diminished the major championship being in the city at a public golf course by not having fans, but getting it out there was I think a big step in kind of you know, the overall you know, countries getting you know, kind of pushing forward in during COVID, which was like nobody knew really what to do, and you guys kind of made a bold decision there.

00:07:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, well thank you, and I think you know, to end where or start where you ended. You know, it ended up being perhaps our most important event we've ever done in a lot of ways, in an ironic way, despite the fact that weren't fans, because I think it was, you know, the first thing since the Super Bowl that actually kind of mattered, you know, and and in the sports world. I mean obviously a lot of things in the world had happened. And I'll take you back a little bit because you know, as I said before, you know, my job, like every day is to to grow the game and to serve our members. I could, so that's why we're thinking about it all the time. And then once a year we're the center of the golf universe because we have you know, PGA championship and a Ryder Cup year, and the women's game for another year, seniors for another another suited me another week, and seniors for a week, and and and a lot of stuff in between. That's cool, But you know, when it first hit, you know, our first first thing is, okay, how do you sort of protect your people, right? And we were very quick to like go remote. And when we pulled the plug, we weren't sure whether we could operate because we've never done anything like it before. And actually, you know, that all worked extremely well, and you know, it was actually like a great cultural moment because we everybody sort of rallied around a common enemy do a certain degree. And then the second thing was, okay, how do we get everybody to the other side of this thing, Like, like, you know, we are professionals that are out there, you know, they're like the gun to zero revenue, right, and and how do you you know, how do you sort of you know, sort of get them back in business. So we we created an emergency really fund and donated personally and you knows, from our reserve funds and then raise some money around it charitably for the golf industry. And it was it was our pros, but it was also caddies and you know, people that were working in the industry, those in the most desperate need, you know, could apply and we'd grant them money, right, And then you know, we started thinking about, okay, you know, what do we do about the game day to day game? And I was sitting around, you know, sort of in my bedroom a few weeks into it, and I said, you know, it's core, Like I have five kids, right, So it was reality TV, you know, all of a sudden, they're all home and we're trying to figure out activities, right, And I said, you know that golf course that's sitting over there is two hundred acres of empty land, Like what could be safer than you know, carrying my own bag, you know, walking around that two hundred acres. And I said, well, if you could apply that to kind of what's going on societally. It was sort of like, you know, what can we do to help write? Like how do we be part of the solution here? And we had a you know, a health expert used to work in the Clinton White House who who I sort of wasn't a golfer. But I said like, am I crazy here or is this like a reasonable idea? And he goes, no, I think you're onto something. Let me get you to Fauci. So talked to Fauci and he's not a golfer, but he said, like, what nobody's thinking about that way? Like that makes sense, and he said, let me get you to the CDC, folks, And so we got there thinking like there's this huge bureaucracy we're going to bump do. And they were like, wow, no other sports approached us, like that's a really cool idea, and so we said, well, why don't we phase it in the same way that the CDC is, Like, you know, phase one is, you know, don't talk to anybody, don't see anybody, don't touch a flag, you know, carry your own bag, and you know, twenty minute intervals or whatever it was. And then you know, we'll phase it in and eventually I'll have cards and you know and halfway houses and all the stuff that you know we're used to. And so that was what we called back to golf, and that's kind of how golf got reopened, right And then you know, Jay, to his credit and you know, fade in and obviously ended up being an amazing, you know, boom for the game because people all the weaknesses, are the perceived weaknesses of the game became strengths right out alone. And you don't really touch people and you're only with a couple other people and you know whatever, right, and it.

00:11:31
Speaker 3: Takes a long time, a long long time away from home that you spend all those.

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Speaker 1: Perfect right, and that's what the CDCs like, you know, this is exactly what we need. We need, you know, we need some therapy for people, right, and a reason to get out of the house. And so it that's all great. And then Jay, like to his credit, in May you know, everybody's hiding on their you know, their beads, and he's like, you know, we're going to play next month, and you know, I don't know about ever buddy else, but I said, well, that's awesome, but like it sounds a little crazy, but like, yeah, for you, like, let's do it, and his credit, he did right. A couple of weeks later, then it started and then as you started, you know, so we were the first game on television, right, which also helped the boom in my view, And it was the first it was the only game that wasn't weird, like you know what I mean, in the sense that everybody else was trying to pretend they were fans there they were creating you know, those weird like masks put up on you know, in stadiums and like creating fake cheers, and even tennis was weird because they kind of advertised that there weren't fans, whereas golf was almost cooler.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: That's what I always say.

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Speaker 3: I think that like golf is a TV product would be best at no fans because you could do so much more with cameras and stuff.

00:12:47
Speaker 1: Well, and you can see the golf course. Like I remember watching you know, Wingfoot right in the opening watch much of Herding Park because I was there, but like watching Wingfoot like was beautiful because I know that golf course and it wasn't like you're looking at grand Stance behind you were looking at trees and and telling has greens and like, you know, it was cool, right, And so you know, back to like how we pulled it off. You know, Jay offered it and I said, we're in, we're gonna, We're going to do it. And you know it's not going to be you know, particularly economic for us. But but because we were already into our build, we stopped all that obviously and you know, decided to do it, at which point you got to get approval. Right, So we're talking about California and so in the city of San Francisco, which you know was pretty COVID freaked out, right. I don't mean wrongly, I just mean you know that it was you know, every place had a little different perspective on it, and there's was was very anti COVID and crowds. So I started talking to the mayor, and the mayor sort of said, you know, I think we want to do this. And I talked to one of her administrators a lot and and and then you know, I said, well, what about the governor And she said, well, I'm not sure. So I got to Governor Newsom and kind of said the same thing. And at one point in sort of June, I said, look, it's it's go or no go time, and I'm happy to jump off this bridge, but you know you need to jump off with me, right, And you know, if something awful happens, like yeah, we could cancel it, but like, you know, it has to be you know, it can't be just because you've changed your mind that day, right, And in their credit, they wanted to do it. And so you know, we held the first you know, again sports, you know, I don't mean the tour events aren't you know, significant, but like the first thing that handed out of you know, big trophy and that you know, was meaningful, and it was eerie, very strange and super cool. Like it was just you know, I remember walking around the fairways and you'd be like talking to Tiger Rory and jt Repaired and they're like, you know, coming over to say, hey, how you doing, you know, you're walking down the fairway. And then obviously we had incredible drama. Kerry Haig, it is amazing, you know, this magic trick of turning every golf course on the planet in the back nine on Sunday into augusta right, and I mean seven people tied for the lead with you know, three or four holes to go, and then Colin you know, pulled off an incredible shot of you know, on sixteen, and you know, it ended up being an amazing, amazing championship. But it was you know, a lot of a lot of belief, a lot of trust, an awful lot of you know, conversations with health experts and and trying to figure out how to do it. And and then again, you know, the cooperation of the city in the state was was absolutely unnecessary. They were in charge right of their their places and they didn't want us. We weren't going.

00:15:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, while we're here, you know, we're a few years removed from the PGAs moved to May and I guess, you know, looking back on it now with a little bit more you know, perspective and a little bit more time, what do you think have been the biggest advantages of your move to May and and then also the you know, have there been any drawbacks, anythings you regret about the decision?

00:16:17
Speaker 1: Yeah? So you know the answer is that it's been great for us, right. I think it's a better cadence for the for the whole sport. You know, you kind of have And I know that the guys get tired, right because it's one after the other. But but you know, it's kind of what they wanted another. You know, if they had to regret it, maybe that it's it's too much ice cream.

00:16:40
Speaker 3: You know, it'd be hard hard if you just had to please tour players, you'd be moving the goalpost a lot.

00:16:46
Speaker 1: Yes, that's fair. I'm gonna let you say that. The but you know, I think it's a great cadence for the fan. I think it probably is for the player players as well. Except for exhaustion factor. You know, we end the major season and then you know, the tour can have its great you know sort of climax to their the season and then the FedEx Cup and then you know you actually kind of end, right and then you have Ryder Cup for President's Cup, and and so I think it, you know, it creates much more of a season sort of from you know, January to September, which I think is very healthy. I think having them one month apart, you know, makes a lot of sense. Uh. So, I think it's great for the game and the ecosystem, and it's been great for the PJ of America in a sense that you know, if you think about again what we do, we are you know, we're about the game, and uh and now we play in May as the beginning of a lot of you know, seasons, right like certainly the Northeast, but you know, you know, it's the end in some of the Florida perhaps, but it's beginning of a large part of the country. And so it's a great to talk about what we do and and what our professionals do every every every day. And I think, you know, following on the excitement of the beginning of the season and then and then Augusta and then US and we have the same broadcast partners in CBS and and ESPN, which is there's some elegance to that, right and in terms of you know, that team kind of has their window and then and the other folks kind of take over. I think it's generally allowed more courses to be in the road of than less. Uh. And that's good. You know, we obviously had you know, commitments ahead of time. We had Beth Page was the first year, and the weather, thankfully, the beginning of the week was a disaster, but it turned out to be good at the uh uh. You know, during the tournament last year at Southern Hills we had four seasons and three days and that yeah, and so much better than August and Tulsa, you know, which is you know, kind of a death march in just because of the weather, you know. And this year we've got Okhill, which is an amazing golf course and obviously in Rochester, so you know, this is the last one on our schedule. We're gulping a little bit about you know, what the weather's going to be. Like. The good news is we did somebody sent me a tweet last year that it was warmer in Rochester on on the Saturday than it was in Tulsa. So hopefully we'll be all right. We're not worried about course conditions. You can dial that in. We're not you know, where you need a little growth and get the roof to pop. But you know, it's an amazing place and it'll be amazing. But look, we play an outdoor sport and maybe it's going to be a little rough up there.

00:19:43
Speaker 2: It could be.

00:19:44
Speaker 3: You know, you get weather, and some of the most memorable majors are the ones where you got the crazy weather. Like I'll never forget when they had to call the open because of wind. And you know, I think broke Pepka was was berating an official. I mean, like you yields these like, you know, memorable moments when it's just crazy weather. Obviously, you know, Tiger lost a major because he got the wrong side of the draw and open and that could add some intrigue. But you know, obviously May and Rochester is not ideal.

00:20:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see, and so if I had a regret, it would be you know, the courses that we can't go to right and and that's always going to be the case, right, But I do remember Rory talking to him. It was the practice grounds, the best page, and it was pouring rain and it was like forty five and sideways, and I look at him and so like, oh, man, I hope we get lucky, and look, somebody goes, you know what, this is still better than august In, you know, on Long Island, and and I think that's, you know, hopefully that's the way they all think about it.

00:20:43
Speaker 3: With venues you alluded to like there's venues that you guys can't go to now, But I'm just in general curious about the your vision and rationale for selecting venues as an organization, and you know what do you guys kind of look for and want out of a venue?

00:21:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'll say this for the one caveat is that we were pretty commit, very committed out for a long time. So you know, other than changing a day to Southern Hills, we haven't we haven't done a lot since I've been here because we're so committed out And I've actually set some rules around not going too far out because I think it's irresponsible to the world can change so much, right that, you know, I don't think we need to be. You know, when when we made the decision to move to Southern Hills, we had I think it was thirty five courses called us and would do it within fourteen months, right, And so you know, we have the ability to deliver things fairly quickly. And you don't need to be a decade out right, you can be whatever. So anyway, with that caveat, we want to take it around. You know, we're the PGA of America, so we want to take it around the country as best we can. We have forty one sections and every one of them would love to you know, sort of host and made, you know, our major at some point. So we definitely want to bring it around the country. We want obviously great golf courses. We want cities that embrace the game and and get behind it with a fan base and and and everything else about it. You know, as I said, our secret not so secret weapon is it's Carrie Hay and I think he could turn a parking lot into you know, great theater. And but but we're looking for and I don't want to say classic courses because that's too you know, road. I think there, you know, I think there's plenty of modern golf courses that are that are also you know, wonderful tests and and so that that's for sure. You know, we we kind of you know, uh, we go to clubs and we go to public courses, but you know, we're we're golf for everybody, and so we definitely like having a healthy mix of you know, public access golf courses as part of what we do because we think that speaks to kind of who we are, you know. And and a again, a town and a membership and a and a city government that's going to embrace us right and make it welcome us rather than you know, make it hard to do business right. And and that's you know, we realize, you know, and I realized this. I didn't really you know, when when I was kind of running Deutsche Bank and then decided to do our championship. You think about like the four dividends that you're kind of creating, right for Deutsche Bank, it was how do I get an I R R on our investment in this golf tournament? And it was you know, client entertainment, and that was the program. And then you know, showing and and you know, branding is obviously important part of it, and then and then the economic value of it was it's huguely important. And you know, the governor used to thank us every year for bringing you know, seventy seventy five million dollars and you know, commerce and revenues that came in that wouldn't have existed. And so you want the cities to understand that and be a part of that, and also the charitable dollars that are created. Right, and so you want and Southern Hills because it's fresh in my mind and we've had we have great venues, and they're all sort of equally enthusiastic. But you know, Southern Hills I had fourteen months to switch from twenty and twenty nine to twenty twenty two, and they pulled off. They just the whole place got behind it in an enormous way. And you know, if you were wearing a PGA you know logo walking around that week, people were hugging you because you brought this thing to town, right, and so Rochester is going to be the same way. They're dying for this thing.

00:24:54
Speaker 3: In a way, it's those mid market cities probably are almost you know that haven't advantage in that sense, like I hear I still hear horror stories today about you know, the city of Chicago with the Olympia Fields at the US Open years ago, and you know, it's like, you know, when you think about big cities, you know, it's a smaller deal than a major championship coming to Tulsa or Rochester or Key Island.

00:25:20
Speaker 2: Even.

00:25:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you're one hundred percent right. It's like in the big cities you're a traffic jam, right and and uh in Tulsa you're you're it. And you know, without picking on anybody, the mid may you know, mid major cities tend to be the most excited about it, the most grateful, and frankly the most profitable because they they make it easier, the costs tend to be lower, and and that you know, the local uh you know, corporations and people get behind it in an extraordinary way. Particularly true in that and by the way, in the LPGA that's particularly true as well. Yeah.

00:25:59
Speaker 3: I always think about that Solheim cupp in Des Moines, Iowa, where it was like, you know, record crowds, and it's like, you know, that is it's a neat thing because like part of me always looks at the tour schedule and thinks, hey, how come I'm a Chicago at heart. It's like, how do we not have a regular tour event anymore?

00:26:18
Speaker 2: Like that? That's absolutely crazy?

00:26:20
Speaker 3: And it's like but at the same time, it's like, these tour events mean a lot more in smaller markets, and there's a kind of a hand you know, there's there's plus and minuses to both sides.

00:26:31
Speaker 1: Well, and you want to go places that people watch you right and appreciate you right as opposed to you know, we're you see gratitude instead of entitlement.

00:26:41
Speaker 3: Right, switching gears a little. You know, we've talked a little bit about your professional life. On your personal side of life, one of the things that I'm kind of most excited about in twenty twenty three is the work you're doing in South Florida for people that don't know you're You're behind You're you're leading a group that's behind the really the rehabilitation of West Palm Beach, Muni, which I believe will be called the Park, the golf Park, the park for short. What made you get behind that? Could you tell us a little bit of the backstory on renovating that golf course? With gil hands and what you know led you to want to do that.

00:27:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think the short answer is, you know, I kind of did it because we could, right. And if you think about it, you know, municipal a lot of the municipal golf courses were built in urban area, obviously or not obviously, but you know, largely urban areas, and they were kind of built. A lot of the traditional ones were built in the kind of nineteen tens nineteen twenties by Teddy Roosevelt as president and Woodrow Wilson, and the idea was, you know, the Industrial Revolution, people were working six days a week on Sunday. You kind of had to get them outside and give them some recreation. And so they built parks and golf courses and baseball fields, and so those communities are built where they should be, right. They're built on good land near people, and if they go away, they're sort of gone forever, right. And And you know, so I get a knock on my door, relatively new with the job, and it's a guy named Mike mcgedrick, who's one of our professionals, is really good teacher, taught a lot of the lphas from Houston, and he said, what do you know about the West Palm Beach Community And I said, I didn't know it existed, and you know, I've had a home there for twenty years and did not know. And he said, well, it's you know, it's been shuttered for four or five years, but it you know, used to be a great place. And there's an RFP on it right now to to you know, restore it. And every other bidder is kind of a a developer that's going to build some condos and a golf course. And I think there's a way to keep condos off it and do a public private partnership. And I said, okay, well let me go sort of check it out. And so I went, took my wife, told her that we were going for lunch, which I did. I said, hey, I got to make one quick stop and we stopped. You know, he couldn't You found it on the GPS and you pull into a high school parking lot Forest Hills High and there's this you know, do not enter kind of collapsed fence, you know, kind of deal. And literally I like pulled aside the chain link fence and watered into there was Jane and I get one hundred yards into it and it's like mind blowing. It's like that moment when you you know, you're driving through the Scottish you know, countryside, and you see golf courses everywhere right like you can build one wherever you look right and and it's one hundred and ninety acres of sugar sand. You could see it. I mean, the grass was kind of up to our waist in places. But also and you could just see a golf course. There's an incredible amount of movement on it and you realize it was built nineteen forty seven by Dick Wilson, was a designer who was kind of dug eye at the time. And they built it there because they could. It's on the same send built that you know Seminole and Jupiter Hills, and that it's that same that.

00:30:20
Speaker 2: Same dune's ridge.

00:30:21
Speaker 3: It's a it's like a mile or so inland and there's that dune ridge that maybe not even that far, but there's a dune ridge. It goes straight up to Hope Sound. It really stops there and Hope Sound.

00:30:32
Speaker 1: Yep, exactly right, and you know, and and the wind's blowing and you kind of go like I looked at her and I said, we got to do something here, and she said, well, that'd be pretty cool, and I said, just you know, so I called the mayor, who I knew a little bit from some other stuff I've done in another life, and and I said, can I come see you? And I did. His name's Keith James, really great guy who I've got to know very well, but didn't know that well at the time. And I said, what are you thinking about on the golf course? And he said, well, I just wanted to kind of. I don't want to ever have to you know, we've been losing between five five hundred and grand and a million bucks every year. I just I can't afford that. And I just kind of wanted to go away. I don't want to have to worry about it, but I'd like it to be golf. And I said, well, you know, and if you think about Munis, like, you know, they've been under invested in mismanaged. You know, they have a let's call it a million dollar you know, maintenance budget where you probably need to and they're saying, well, we can't spend more on the maintenance because you know, that's books for kids, right, and that's a reasonable way for them to think right, And so I kind of said, look, I think we can raise the money privately and have it go away. And by the way, if it's successful over time, I think we can give an end back to you, you know, significant money to the city through operating this thing, because I think we can do it. You know, we're not for profit, you know, profitably in the sense of you know, adding some value. And I said, we'll set up a foundation. You give us a dollar year lease and he said, well, you know how long you need to figure this out? And I go, well, can you give me sixty days before you you know, take it to bid. And he said, I can do that. I'm not going to say a word to anybody. We're just going to kind of, you know, you go do your exploration. So I called Gil who as a friend, and had him come down and we walked to property and he said, he said, said, this is a nine or a ten. I mean it's a mile from PPI the airport. It's right, you know, West pum Beach is growing like a weed. It's like, you know, he said, can I do whatever I want? I go, Yeah, this thing has been closed for five years. There's no there's no you know that, do you know, do guilt right, like make it what you want? And uh he said, I'm in and I'll do it Provona. And then we went and saw another good friend of ours, new Dirk Ziff, who is a great guy, you very successful investor, philanthropist, who also loves our golf architect and he's he's good at it and had worked you know on some stuff with Gil and in another project and sort of for fun, and and you know, took him there he fell in love with and he said, look, I'm your first, you know, donor. And so I knew I was kind of onto something and went back to the mayor and said, and I think we can do this thing, and he said, well, I need some help with the commission. So I went and saw all the commissioners individually, and then I went to a commission meeting and I did town halls, and the newspapers kind of got ahold of it, and all of a sudden, you know, we were sort of, you know, Santa Claus, right, We're going to come rescue this thing, which had been a blight on the town for a number of years, right, and close five years of vagrants there's all kinds of probably bad things in the neighborhood, which you know has a lot of pride, like you know, didn't like having this sort of scar in their backyard. So you know, sort of we're ready to go, and then COVID hits it kind of go okay, well, there's another gut check and and we he said, you know, the mayor city you need more time. And I said, I think I need more time. And I said, but I think we can still do it, and he goes, okay, great, and so we rolled in another sort of six months, and then when the season hit in twenty and twenty twenty one, excuse me, we went into the market. I put together we put together a group of people, you know, local developer, you know, a couple of guys that were now well known to sort of do the heavy lifting on the on the on the fundraising guy him Dance Standing, and a local guy named Tom Frankel who was a developer to help us with a vertical who's been unbelievable, kind of made it a full time job. And we went into the market to try and raise the money, and in sixty days we raised over fifty million dollars to restore Muni right now, it was Pobbyach, which obviously you know, a lot of wealth. It was COVID, so people had the time on their hands. But it was more, you know, it wasn't about the golf course. It was about the lives that we're going to change, right, and that's what the story is, right, We're going to we're going to run every kid program through there. We've we've got eighteen holes that are you know, magnificent. We've got a lighted part three that'll be open till ten or eleven o'clock at night, a great driving range clubhouse is understated, but it's going to end up in the hub for that part of the town. And we've got the south to the PJAS. South Florida has put their headquarters there, so they're going to have eyes and ears on it. They're going to run all the kids programs through there, and we want to you know, the reason we call it the park is you know, it's back to my sort of COVID thing and it's like, you know, that's what golf is, right, it's a walk in the park Number one, number two. It's a public facility like the one hundred and ninety acres that the citizens of West Palm Beach home, and we want it to be you know, as twenty four south it as it can possibly be. So yeah, there's gonna be a lot of golf there for sure. But we're also going to do art classes you know in the club, in the in the main house or in South Florida PGA. We're going to do stemming classes. We're going to you know, have a caddy program. We're going to having scholars you know are already involved looking at it, and you know, so we're going to you know, change lives and I think, you know, provide i know, provide a service for the locals. And I think over time, because we don't pay any rent that I think we're going to actually you know, create a lot of cash flow that we're going to be able to you know, give an end back to the city. So it's just like really cool, you know, full circle story about you know, how it all works, and like what you know, the the last thing I'd say, because I've probably talked about it too much, but is you know, every I always ask like what's your favorite course, what's the best course, that kind of thing, And I have a different scale, which is like, what's your happiest course, Like what you know, where what push you in the best mood? What's the most fun? And if I said ten courses to you and I said happy, you're unhappy, I think we'd get them probably right. Right, they're not doesn't mean they're not great. They just think whatever. So we're trying to build the happiest place in golf and have it be fun. And the course that Gil and Derk have built is just that everybody comes off smiling. There's not a drop of water on the whole place, which I think might be the only place in Florida without it. Uh. And you know, you find your ball to Rory and Tiger out there and they loved it and they said, you know, Tiger's comment was, it's a one ball golf course, like you you know, it's almost impossible to lose one. And so you find it and you hit it. And the green complexes are really varied and cool, and it's just you know, there's a huge amount of slope and you can play shots and plot from everywhere, you can chip, you know, from everywhere. It's really it's we're proud of it. It's it's gonna uh and and again. So it's kind of as you pointed out, and I said, did it as a private citizen because I didn't want to put PGA money into something that was you know, you know, wasn't necessarily his best interest. But I think what I wanted to do is have a great success in restoring community to inspire other places to do the same thing and roll out of template. And you know, we at PJ in America are looking at ways to help in that either through you know, some grants, but more importantly probays, a loan program to get things going, you know, become kind of a you know, a golf bank, if you will. So we wanted a shiny example in the Hill to to show that like this is successful and whether that's Chicago or Washington and you know those famous, you know kind of projects that are going on. There were a nine holer in Iowa, right like you know, if you get local people that care and a willing government, you can do great things.

00:39:15
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00:41:47
Speaker 2: And you know what do you? You know?

00:41:50
Speaker 3: You did you went private public partnership, which I think is a very popular model right now. If you look at where there's been a lot of success, what are the other options or is this really the best option for people? Is that the way they should focus their effort.

00:42:09
Speaker 1: I think it depends on you know, it depends on not where you are, but who you're dealing with. Right there may be certain cities that that are good at running golf course. I don't mean to say everybody is is it and you know, have a real interest in doing that and think that they can make it profitable and and I think I think, you know, that's fine if if that works, I think there's more comfort in donors amongst donors doing the public private partnership then, you know than don't you know, donating money to a municipality where that you know there's going to be turnover in different politics and whatever, as opposed to something that's more perpetual in the sense of the foundation of you know, like minded people. The board of directors is that you know is going to pass it on to a new but you know, so we've already brought young folks into ours because generationally we're gonna have to hand this off at some point, and so I think, you know, I think that's a you know, if you're trying to raise a bunch of money, you know from a you know, philanthropically, I think that's a model that you know, is going to is going to resonate better with donors than than than the other. Yeah, there's another model, which is you know, done in California where you know, Top Golf came in and uh, I screw up the name of the town, but uh, you know, I think near San Diego that was a sort of eighteen hole. They've turned it into a twelve holer with a Top Golf concept, and you know, they had to fight a lot on it because of the lights and size of Top Golf. But I think it's been an enormous success for Top Golf and for the city and now they're dividending back money to the city in a great way. So I think there's I think there's lots of ways to do it right, and you just got to be creative and I think, you know, financially, you know, but also kind of you know, culturally in terms of where you're dealing.

00:44:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I mean what you hit on with with West Palm Beach is I you know, land that existing golf courses are on, especially public golf courses are on, just doesn't exist anymore. And when I think about where really the trends of golf architecture are going to be, this is this is a big part of the next thirty years of golf architecture and development. Is like what happens with a lot of public golf courses that are up for renovation or are you know, with with towns a lot of towns to look at it at the way West Palm Beach did and just know, you know, this is just a common way to look at it is like this loses us money and you know, we've got to stop, but you know we can't.

00:45:04
Speaker 2: It's kind of like almost a nuisance.

00:45:07
Speaker 3: And as opposed to, you know, they look at a park that costs them money to maintain but doesn't bring any revenue in, completely different than a golf course that brings revenue in but costs money to you know, but also cost money to maintain.

00:45:20
Speaker 2: It's it's an interesting thing with.

00:45:24
Speaker 1: And if you think about it, like you know, if you're trying to keep a golf course open, you have to win that boat every year. If you're going to close, you only have to lose once, right, you know, some administration goes like, we're just tired of this, right and and look, you know the model for us, and I'm not sure it's the same way everywhere, but you know, we have a dollar year lease. We have water that we draw from a canal, which is you know, which is in the lease because that's always been the way it was, and so that's free. We have no taxes because we're municipal, and and we have no debt and probably unlimited demand. So that's a pretty good business model for golf, right like or anything. But you know, and so that's why I think we're going to you know, be able to dive it end back to the city and everybody, everybody wins. And you know, I mean, we raised fifty five million dollars, right, so and we have a we'll probably start with roughly a twenty million dollar endowment to get through any you know, tough periods we might have. And that's an incredible luxury. Like I don't mean that's going to happen everywhere, but but that's the power of the game. Like people, the one of the things that I've underestimated when I took this role, is really how powerful the brand is and how powerful an engine for good golf is, right, And and I mean that charitably, but I mean that, you know, lessons learned and values shared and and time spent, relationships built and all those things that go in the game, and it resonates with people, and and you know, the power and then you know, the ability to leverage the PGA brand for good, in my view is kind of endless because of the power of the game and because of the you know, the halo that we have around what we're trying to do. And and so like I did this as you know, sethwell private citizen, but you know, no question that my you know, my job, my title, you know, gave some credibility to the whole thing, right And and that's fine and good and and you know I answered it in the beginnings like we did it because we could, right. Can you imagine if it wasn't a golf course, if it was a bunch of condoms, like Florida doesn't need any more condos, like I live there, you know, like it doesn't. But boy, you know, it's golf heaven in Palmage county, but not publicly like there just there isn't a lot and and so you know, we're going to give a really good deal to the to the townspeople on pricing, We're going to give a really good deal to the you know, in state people. And you know, if you're a hitch FuMB guy from New York, you're going to pay for it, right like, because it's that good then, and that's you know, that's that's the way it should be, right.

00:48:14
Speaker 3: Completely agree, it's uh, you know, I think that's the best model for you know, municipal golf is if you're going to renovate, if you're going to put money in, you have to make it. You know, especially if you're a city that attracts a lot of people, you can make up a lot of a lot of revenue by charging a big out of town green fee, you know. And it makes sense like if I'm flying in to town for a wedding or whatever and I'm looking to play golf, if there's a good public golf course, I'm fine playing paying two hundred three hundred bucks to play because I'm on vacation right versus. But if for the locals, keeping it affordable I mean, I think Tory I think this is the best part about Tory Pines is their model.

00:48:56
Speaker 2: Their model makes a ton of sense.

00:48:57
Speaker 3: It's fifty sixty bucks to play one of those two courses as a as a as a resident. But then you know, if you're coming in from out of town, you're going to pay.

00:49:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, or you know links trust in Saint Andrew's right, you'rewn person. You pay whatever a year and you get to play everywhere. But if you're playing the old course in the lottery, you're you're going to pay right, like that's your taxis right for that day. And I think I think that's fair and right and and you know, and by the way back to the public private model. I think the other thing that is hard for unis is like we're going to compete on excellence, right, Like we're gonna we're going to be a place at like a bucket list place. You're gonna you know, you go to Palm Beach for a wedding, as you say, and you're staying at the breakers, like you know, it's an afterthought of what you just want to play the park, right, like you you know you want to go home and say, yeah, I play the park was great, and and you know that's that's good, but that means our conditions are going to be great. You know, we're gonna deliver a world class facility kind of every day and and you know we'll have I think you know it'll be you know, a place at night too. I mean, I just you know, we're going to have great tacos and pizza and probably a steak and like people are going to get married there and like that's great because it's a park, right, Like it's their land, like we want we want it to be you know, town square, right town center.

00:50:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of of another development you've been part of is PGA Frisco, and it's kind of almost the opposite. It's going to be a town center and in a few years. But right now, you know, what do you when you signed the deal, I have to raise my hand. I I was like, where are they building a golf course?

00:50:47
Speaker 1: Why?

00:50:48
Speaker 2: Why are they there?

00:50:49
Speaker 3: And now you know, years after I went down there last fall and I'm like, holy shit, this is going to be like the middle of town and in a matter of five years. And this is this is pretty brilliant in the sense of like you know, land development, so can you just walk us through this project and obviously you're you're nearing the finish line here. It opens this year. But going from idea to this massive golf development, yeah, so and not really it's more than a golf development really.

00:51:23
Speaker 1: Well, like one of the miracles, maybe the biggest miracle of Texas, right is everybody who lives here can't imagine living anywhere else. And they pretty much want everybody on earth to move here, right, And there's something really infectious about that. There's an incredible optimism, this welcoming spirit, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Right, And so you know Dallas is just you know, they build a highway and then you know, like eventually, you know, people come, right and and in this case at the Frisco, you know, Jerry Jones built a practice football facility. You know, you built a highway, build a practice football facility, add some water and now it's the fastest gromal country city in the country. Right. And they've the the same you know, secret sauce that existed in West Palm exists in full force in Frisco, which is a very thoughtful you know administration. Mayor Jameson in West Palm deserves an enormous amount of credit for you know, first of all taking my call. Second of all, you know, we agree to meet with me and then see like having the trust that I could we could pull it off, like you know, that was not without some political restagram, right, and so Frisco, you know, so we did r f P you know, five six years ago now, and you know the idea of r f P s and if you're corporate is not the work corporate association, but a large entity is is generally you're you're kind of trying to get paid to stay, right, so you you know, threaten to leave, and then the state and the city step up and give me some tax breaks, and you know, you kind of build your new building. And we had outgrown our facility in West Palm and it really you know, it's on the beginning of PG National, but you know, we don't control the golf, so it isn't really a golf thing. It's it's a building, right and in a nice building, but just a building. And so we went to all the cities you'd imagine. We went to you know, Charlotte and Houston, in Dallas and Atlanta and Phoenix, and you know, every everywhere that you'd imagine golf. I think we even went to Chicago, believe it or not, and you know, they all came back with interesting proposals. Florida did indeed step up and offer, but Frisco jumped off the page for a couple of reasons. One is they were very generous, let's say, in terms of incentives, financial incentives. And secondly, you know, they had six hundred and fifty acres that nobody else had, right and you know, a business friendly you know state and all those sort of things, and so you kind of go like, well, we can reimagine you know what this is gonna you know, be. It's not just a headquarters, it's like a you know, destination. So I came out, I was on the board, it was I didn't have you know, I wasn't the CEO yet or have any inkling that I ever would be. But came out and I was here for another event and they asked me to kind of check it out, and I toured it with the you know, the town folks and a couple of developers, and you can see it the same sort of thing. I mean, it's an amazing piece of property. It's a huge elevation change and you had to squint your eyes to see this one, but you kind of go like, well this is you know, pretty cool. And and so that was went back and said like look, you know and Frisco really wanted to do it because as you say, it's was the opposite side of town. So the other side near the Star is very developed town centers, very developed. They have it's called Sportstown, USA, and that they they built their whole you know kind of culture around sports. You go to the Star and there's you know, they have this practice like turf field that you know, people kids are playing on, Dads are playing with sons, and moms are playing with daughters and like it's you know, it's a very sort of healthy, outdoor kind of atmosphere. But they didn't have any golf. I mean, they had golf, but they didn't have that was the one major sport they didn't have. So, you know, hockey has a presence here, Baseball as the presidence here, Football is the presidents here, Basketball as presidents here. Uh, but golf did not. And you know they're even though as we talked about earlier, the ecosystem is is kind of you know, broader than it should be. There aren't many you know sort of uh uh, you know golf entities that are looking to potentially move, and so we were we were moby dick for them right as well in terms of, you know, what they could do. And they knew if we you know, stuck a stake in the ground, that the town would come to way and so, uh that was a very happy kind of you know, shared interest kind of thing. And then you know, we had to go find the money, right because you know, to build this thing, it's probably a half a billion dollars, you know, our building. You know, we obviously are going to build our own building. But but they had to find some you know money that was syndicate kind of put together, and it really you know, wasn't getting wasn't going to get off the ground, and we weren't going to come unless we had financial certainty because we couldn't, I couldn't commit to come and then have the thing not be built. And then the Omni Group came in and Bob Rowling, who become a really good friend, who you know, is obviously in the hospitality business. They they do things for cash flow. They don't. The company has zero debt. And so he came in, fell in love that he's a Dallas guy. I fell in love with the idea. His son Blake as his partner, and said, look, we're gonna we're gonna build this thing, and we're going to put a half a billion dollars into basically the PGA's name. You guys operated, We'll build a resort, We'll build the town center, if you will, the entertainment center, and and you guys build your building, and uh North Texas PJA is also you know, coming on board and coming here and uh we all sort of you know, uh locked hams arms and and you know, group hugged and and uh you know, jumped for it. And then you know again we're we started building and COVID hit right, and you know, the rallying rawlings are in. You know, two businesses right, one is is UH oil and gas and the other is hospitality. And if you could imagine, you know, any two worst businesses to be in in uh in COVID. You know maybe the airlines, right or cruise ships or something. But but you know, and and they gulps, you know, hesitated for a little bit and then began building and did it. You know, have been amazing partners. Golf courses ended up being a lot more expensive than we thought because we had a sand cap because of you know, the clay that is really the you know, the basic dirt here. And but they did it and they you know, have become great friends. And and so as soon as we you know, committed to that, the land up around all around us sold. The Hunt family bought most of it. I'm looking at my office window right now to high school that you know didn't exist until we shook hands, and it's now open for business. Football field, by the way, it was the first thing that they put up, no huge surprise. And you know this town has sprung up around us. So back to the power of the game, Like you know, we created waterfront property, right, like the dirt was worth. You know, the town did an amazing thing, right They you know, gave so least you know, six hundred and fifty acres and the amount of value that they created for that, you know, the town was in is in the buildings. I mean, there's no question, right and and so very you know forward thinking. You know, I don't think it works without us. And you know, I think the cool thing about you know what it is is it's much more than a certainly much more than our office building. But which, by the way, that's super cool. I was talking to somebody the other day, like, you know, we got this like drone footage, which we just kind of did and now it's gone like viral. It's like the only two buildings on Earth people are talking about, like the Apple you know, Apple Headquarters in PGA of America, Like go figure, right, but uh, but you know, so we're here and as an anchor tenant, you know, we're drawing all things golf, every equipment company. I'll have a presence here, top Golf, you can have a presence here. And you know is this will you know, the putting green is four acres and that's going to be free to the public. It's going to be you know, imagine Saint Andrews on steroids kind of thing. Right. We've got a lighted part three and you know, we teach all our professionals here, So in that sense, it's kind of a university. It's got you know, I think it can be the kind of commercial epicenter of the game because you know, we're here, people are going to come to want to play at. The resort is going to be off the charts, So it's kind of pebble, you know, a Wall Street or Silicon Valley. You know, it's going to be a laboratory for the game. So in that sense, Silicon Valley, you know, whatever entertainment side of things you want to you know, sort of throw in the mix there. So it's it's really cool and we're excited about it, and the dream is it's it's one of those very few occasions where the reality is actually better than the dream, and it's sort of more than we deserve. And you know, to a certain extent, we've done the easy part. We've like built an incredible facility. Now we've got to activate it. Right now, I got to we got to figure out how to get a return to our shareholders and an archais of shareholders are members, right, Like, how do we how do we get you know, how does this become a big deal for the PJA of America and its members but also for the game? Right and you know, the opportunity is all out there, but it you know, it's it's both an incredible opportunity but also a responsibility to fulfill like all the promise that this place has because it's endless.

01:01:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can imagine that'd be a little overwhelming. I want to be respectful of your time. I got to I would be remiss if I didn't ask this. Uh, you know, with it being a Ryder Cup year. A few years ago at at KIA, you spoke about you know, live players and Ryder Cup, and at that time live was you know, didn't exist. I guess one of the things I would I wonder now is you know, what would be the rationale behind not letting live players play? And I know this is a hard pivot, but I'm just.

01:02:24
Speaker 1: Like Christmas still like a funeral, like what just happened here? Uh, I didn't realize you were a dark cloud. So you know, you know, never say never, right, But you have to be a member of the PGA of America to play on the Ryder Cup. And you know that's you know, you're generally a member of the of the pg of America because you're a member of the tour, right and and so you know, if there are members of the tour, it's gonna be hard to be a member of PJ of America. Not possible but but.

01:03:07
Speaker 2: Hard they'd have to go in their classes.

01:03:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also you know, gonna be hard to qualify for it, right, I mean, you know, we've got six slots, right, and there's an awful lot of good players out there that are playing, you know, every week on the on the tour, right and accumulating points, and so I think you know, there's there's a math problem as well as you know a you know a uh, you know, trying to think what it's like, you know, the policy problem, right, you know, So anyway it you know, again, never say never. We'll see how it all plays out, you know, whether there is you know, some coming together again or or whether continues to drift further apart. Yeah.

01:04:03
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I know that obviously there are is very complicated situation with every organization. And we talked about how if you rework off at the beginning, it wouldn't look the way what it does. You know, what do you what do you just in general your thoughts on you know, the overall idea of disrupting golf, you know, and I know this is kind of goes back to your life in banking with disruption and things like that.

01:04:30
Speaker 2: But but then you know.

01:04:31
Speaker 3: What how the ecosystem works currently, and then you know, playing kind of inside and outside the sandbox. And obviously it's a hot topic, but I guess the opportunity and then also the drawbacks of this disruption.

01:04:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, so look, I'm all about disruption, right. I think you know, I lived in a world that, as you point out, and you know, you either disrupt or you get run over. You know, it's true in banking, it's true sort of life, and and and that doesn't mean, you know, you have to be a jerk about it. I just mean, like, you know, if you're not sort of going forward and rethinking things, you're you're you're you're by definition going backwards. Right. And so when I first got to the you know, to the PGA, that was the first thing I talked about. Like, you know, if if you think about, like one of the things that I am keen on doing, and we've made some progress on, is like having the game look more like the rest of the world, right, And it's the right thing to do, but it's also the only you know, intelligent business thing to do. Right, Like half the population of the world is as lost I checked, is female, right, and and and in the US, like half the next census, half the population is going to be of color. If you take out like those two you know groups and you and aren't growing with them, like you don't have much for gross story, right, like what's your what's your pam on that, right and so and so we you know, one of my first acts was to appoint an innovation chief, chief of innovation like not it was a department of one. It was really to create a mindset. And we have an innovation fund which we started, which is you know, investing in early stage golf ideas like hopefully to make some money, but more importantly to promote the game and do that in different ways. And so yeah, again I'm all about it. I think there's you know, healthy disruption and there's unhealthy disruption. If if I thought, you know, I'm for the game, like we're for the game, right, and so if I thought this was good for the game, like we don't, we'd be all for it, right. I do think, you know, this is an attempt to kind of buy the game, right, and and to a certain degree, it's a it's a battle for the soul of the game a bit too, right, Like what what do people play for you play for you know, history and trophies and and and you know, uh, you know the values of the game, and you play for money. And you know we'll see, you know, kind of how that plays out. But I don't I think it, you know, at its core, this is a bit of a hostile takeover of the game, right or an attempted hostile takeover, And and I don't. You know, we've thought about it a lot and spend a lot of time on it, as you can imagine, and I just don't. I don't. I don't see how dividing the game diluting the game for the fans and for you know, everybody is is a healthy thing. And and I don't see how. I don't think the product is superior, like, which is, you know, something that is pretty fundamental to disruption that you either have a better product or a better price. And I don't see that the business model is in any way at all sustainable. Right, So now we're competing against you know, sober most fund and politics acidey like imagine it was France, right, Like I'd still have the same problem. Right, You're competing against something that you know is not from a business model standpoint sustainable and you know, and we're all going to end up spending money that we kind of don't have to compete against a model that you know isn't a model, and and that's not healthy.

01:08:35
Speaker 3: I think one of the things that I've you know, what I've thought about it a lot, that you know, we talked about early is, you know, all the organizations, while you wouldn't create a sports league like this, and you know, the NBA, the NFL doesn't have to deal with this, Like, one of the things that having all the organizations involved with the professional sport of golf does is it keeps everybody like it acts almost like a checks and balances to you know, where like nobody has un you know, wielding power. And I think the thing that to me that like dissuades me from liv maybe you know, outside of like.

01:09:12
Speaker 2: The political, the social, all of.

01:09:15
Speaker 3: The baggage that comes with that, but is the idea that a government, a sovereign wealth fund would all of a sudden be able to dictate like what the game, what direction the game of golf is going in when right now it's kind of like everybody works together to figure out the direction. And while things may be slow. Sometimes it might not be an ideal scenario. Nobody has undoe power in the game of golf, which is an appealing thing.

01:09:45
Speaker 1: Yep, you're at one hundred percent, right. I tried to say that earlier. You said it better, an I did. I think there is some sort of beauty to it, which is exactly that that it isn't you know, it isn't some all encompassing entity that that it's a dictatorship, right, It's it's very much of a democracy in terms of you know, how how things play out. And you know, again the lens that we look through obviously it's you know, we get selfish too, like we want to benefit our members as best we can and benefit our brand as best we can. But our prism is always like what's in the best interested game because at the end of the day, if the game is taken care of, our professionals are going to be taken care are going to be better off, right, because every boat is going to rise, and you know, in a an a rising tide, and and so you know again again I'd look at it from the from the very beginning and every you know, every day to say if this was in the best interest in my view or our view should say mine the best interest to the game and the ecosystem, then we'd be all for it. But I just don't see how nobody's convinced me that it is. And and again I just I think the two fundamental flaws of it. I just don't think it's a superior product. And I don't I don't see how the business model makes any sense.

01:11:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the business model one is the one that is, you know, do they just get bored one day?

01:11:17
Speaker 2: And then what happens if it? If it all?

01:11:19
Speaker 3: You know, like I think everybody you talk about townships with with golf courses, eventually they get tired of the five hundred thousand dollars deficit every year of a golf course. They love the utility of it, they love the recreation, but you know, and if it, you know, it seems I don't know, with recent news of people leaving, it seems like it's not great, so.

01:11:41
Speaker 2: We'll leave it in that.

01:11:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's just it's hard to imagine that they that they're realizing any value right from from what they've done so far.

01:11:51
Speaker 2: Right, it's almost brought more attention.

01:11:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, and what what you know, no matter how much money you have, as you say, like, you get tired of burning it at some point, right, I think, but you know, we'll see I got a big pile.

01:12:08
Speaker 2: Yeah.

01:12:09
Speaker 3: So hey, Seth, thank you so much for the time. And we're you know, I'm I'm floored about the park as well. I think, I mean really excited about Frisco. I entered it with very minimal expectations and now I'm quite excited about major championship golf there.

01:12:27
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it. We uh, you know, we're trying to be smart, right, We're trying to be human. We're trying to be smart. We're trying to do you know, we're trying to have a balanced voice and and you know, I think that's what our brand, you know, should represent, right and and try to be on the right side of history. And if you can do all those things, you know, you're probably going to have a pretty good run. So I appreciate your time, Appreciate what you do for the game and your passion around it and your your intelligence around it, which is is great. Come down and see the park. It's it's cool.

01:13:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was, There's so much going down and down to South Florida. I feel like I got to get down there this winter, so I might be flying across the country.

01:13:13
Speaker 2: But thanks for the time and appreciate it and we'll talk soon.

01:13:18
Speaker 1: All the best, all right, thank.

01:13:19
Speaker 3: You, thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Podcast. Today's episode was edited by Matt Russ's Thank you Matt. As an announcement, we put together our event schedule. We put it up on our social media feeds. I think there's a link on our website for it, but we announced eleven events for twenty twenty two. I think they're pretty cool places. A few highlights include Hollywood Golf Club in New Jersey. Pie Dunes, which we've gone to the last couple of years is on there again, as well as Essex County Club.

01:14:01
Speaker 1: You know.

01:14:01
Speaker 3: One of the ones i'd say my sleeper pick is Canton Brookside and Outside. You know, it's about an hour from Cleveland. That is a phenomenal Donald Ross course. I'm really excited to be going there. But anyways, if you want early access to these events, ensure your spot. A great way to do that is to sign up for Club TFE. Club TFE members will get a week head start on registration at these events, so if you want more information on that, go to the Friday dot com slash membership and you can look into that, but otherwise peruse the schedule. Should be a fun year of events. I think we might add one or two more. We're in the process of getting a few more set up, but we're really looking forward to another year of events and thank you guys for all the support. We wouldn't do these events if you guys didn't come to them, so thank you and look forward to having another couple episodes next week.