Breaking News: Tiger Territory reacts to Framber Valdez signing

00:00:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into a special episode of Tiger Territory, part of the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Karri Stegley with me. Is always a man who was always on call or text. He is go to s David Hay, what we got? What we got?

00:00:22
Speaker 2: Why you hear that siren?

00:00:24
Speaker 3: For the first time in a long time, we have an emergency pod. Baby, tell me if you saw this one coming. The Tigers just signed from ber Valdez, the best remaining free agent on the market, probably the top starting pitcher on the market all winter, one of the best left handers in the game. So not very long ago we were saying, hey, these guys, they're probably not going to do much, especially if they lose the Schooba arbitration hearing. Well, as far as we know, they do not yet know the outcome of the Schooba arbitration hearing. At the time we were recording this, it didn't matter. They went and cut a big check. Kieran, the team that had had a pretty sleepy winner, done some things. Brought back Glaber, brought back Jack Flaherty, added Kenny Jansen, but no real splashing moves. They're dealing with some TV uncertainty. They have this schooble thing looming over everything. Nah, forget all that, throw it out the window. The Tigers just signed from Bervaldez, biggest contract in the Scott Harris era, biggest Tigers contract since the signing of Javier Bias.

00:01:29
Speaker 2: This feels to me like a pretty big deal.

00:01:34
Speaker 1: It is a big deal, And in the spirit of full disclosure, we're recording this just before eleven o'clock Eastern time. We obviously do not know the result of the school arbitration. We had recorded an episode earlier today that talked about some of the moves that Scott Harris, some of the great moves that Scott Harris had made in his tenure with the Tigers. That will publish later. So that is why it is not in that episode. So just you know, just you know, kind of inside baseball here. So, yes, Tigers have agreed to a contract and still penning physical like all those you know, all those ramifications there. But it's three years, one hundred and fifteen million dollars. And stop me if I'm saying anything that is incorrect, Cody, there are deferrals. We do not know what the nature of those deferrals are and there is an opt out after the second year for fromber So as a player opt out after the second year. And the headline of this is the money that the Tigers have put out there. And I actually kind of want to go there. There's a million ways that we can kind of start here, but I do want to like say what this says, like ask like what this says about the Tigers and how they view twenty twenty six because that's really like the most pressing thing right to me. And I just said this a couple hours ago, but you guys are gonna view it and listen to it later. Is like one of the good things about Scott Harris and his regime is the ability to pivot and go in different directions, even somewhat unexpected. What we said in the previous episode that will again be released later is like the glabor Torus signing. This is another example of, you know, quite frankly more expensive and bigger example of the Tigers pivoting and going in a unexpected direction with from Bert Valdez, this to me signals twenty twenty six is a year to win, when what we'll see but a year to win because now you're starting rotation looks a hell of a lot healthier. It's also more expensive and also way more experienced Cody than I mean I can remember in quite some time, especially when he comes to postseason experience, and certainly more than you have ever covered. Like this is a veteran Leyden experience, all star rotation that the Tigers have and they paid for it with fromber So I guess the number one thing is what does it mean? Because a lot of people that means a lot to a lot of different people. To me. To me, what it means that the Tigers are all in too strong, but all a board, I guess is maybe how'll I see it into twenty twenty six because again this could have with some flexibility, which again is a Scott Harris staple, but all aboard in the twenty twenty six about making a serious run at the division and trying to punch through that ceiling that they've had, which is the Alds. So that's that's what it says to me. Does what does it say to you?

00:04:54
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it says it says they're serious.

00:04:57
Speaker 3: It says that they are not content just running it back, you know, like we have talked about and kind of debated so long. It tells me also that the Tigers, a strength of theirs is being opportunistic. Would this have happened if from Bravaldez, if his market were different. There's a guy at the Athletic had initially projected him to get I think seven years and one hundred and ninety six million.

00:05:23
Speaker 2: His market kind of tanged. Now he can't say at fully tenks.

00:05:26
Speaker 3: He's getting thirty eight point three million a year before deferrals. He's getting one hundred and fifteen million. But it's not the mega deal, it's not the long term deal. We know the Tigers like their flexibility. He hasn't opt out, So if this goes well, it's going to be two years and done. I guess penning the labor situation in twenty twenty seven, but they pounced on this. It clearly lowered into something that they were probably more comfortable with, and they jumped at it. So I don't know if in a world where from Bravaldez gets what he was projected to get, maybe they don't make a move like this, but it's telling they were still looking for ways to upgrade this team, and they found one to their liking, and they went and they did it. It's funny how this seems to change the perception of everything. Maybe that's a little bit knee jerk in the minutes and hours right after this news breaks, but it went from Okay, I mean they're pretty good, they might still be favorites to win the division, but like, really is the ceiling better to well, you might just have the best one two punch in the American League. I mean, the saddle Manners have a very good pitching staff, but outside of the LA Dodgers, can anyone even come close to matching Trek Skougel, the undisputed Cy Young winner back to back years, and from Ravalde is a guy who has been nothing but rock solid and really good. By the way, two left handers. You know who has a lefty heavy lineup? Your division rival, Cleveland Guardians. I don't think they're gonna want to see the Tigers in another three game series or even a five game series this time around. I think it strengthens this rotation. One thing I had settled on a long time ago. I think the Tiger's best path to win, to really be better might be to be to be improving their pitching. For as much as we've focused on the offense and people have wanted a bat, Tigers were seventeenth in ERA last year, which is hard to fathom, especially when you have the cy young win you're on your staff. Their rotation broke down, thinned out toward the end of the year last year. I think it's reasonable to expect they're going to be better, and they now just might be a lot better. They could have that top five type pitching staff if Scoogle can remain healthy, if from Bravaldees can remain healthy, which he has a track record of mostly doing.

00:07:39
Speaker 2: So.

00:07:41
Speaker 3: Look, I don't know that you want to overreact. There are some potential risks we're going to talk about here in a minute. But man, I think you feel a lot better about the overall shape of things given that you went out and you made a real addition.

00:07:55
Speaker 1: So the shape of things, I want to focus on that here for a second. Twenty twenty three three point two War, twenty twenty four, four point two War, twenty twenty five, three point eight war for from bird, that's an average just for three years, just for three years. And then we have a graphic up on YouTube that's more than that, but just for three years, that's all right. Sorry, that's all right, that's the right, it's all it's all good. Three point eight war. I use Baseball Reference here just for this, just in the spirit of full disclosure. The last time the Tigers had a starting pitcher not named Terrek Skoogle that had a three point eight WAR in a season, you have to go all the way back to Matthew Boyd in twenty nineteen. So if you're trying to determine, like what does he actually add, like what what are the Tigers adding to the rotation here? That's what they're adding. They're adding a bona fide studge to their lineup, just based on three year average and a guy who, look, he's thirty two. Could you argue his prime is more behind him than in front of him. Yes, but there are plenty of indications that he is still a highly valuable pitcher in the last three years. Reflect that as well. I want to make mention that he has eighty five pitches excuse me, eighty five innings pitch excuse me in postseason play. That is something that is also worth mentioning. And look, since aj Hinch came to Detroit. There has been a natural incliniction to project and predict that the Tigers might get one of these former astros to come to Detroit. To this point, unlesst the Marquis has not been the case. Yeah, that has now changed. This is the first for aj Hinch, and you have to imagine which I'm gonna set you up here in a second, Cody, you have to imagine that any considerations with from Bravaldez, the guy would have to have gone through AJ and he would have had to have been endorsed or okay with at the very least what the Tigers are doing. So that is something that everyone's gonna point to. The mix up. They're gonna be nice about it. Then mix up that happened last season is very is gonna be top of everybody's minds. But if we were any other team, I would be more concerned about it than I would be the Tigers given the AJ Hinch connection. So what's the fair way to kind of go about that?

00:10:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's an important part of this whole discussion and probably the answer to why the Tigers got from Bravaldez on a three year contract. There are clearly teams a little worried about the makeup aspect of things. Otherwise he probably would have been paid like a pitcher who has been basically a four war guy for the past four seasons.

00:11:09
Speaker 2: Instead, the market wasn't quite there.

00:11:13
Speaker 3: Now the aav is still high, but the length, you know, it's a signal teams weren't willing to take that risk of a guy they're not sure about. I would say Aj Hinch and Scott Harris both have a little Taylor Swift in them, but Daddy I can fix him right. Aj Hinch has some confidence in his psychological genius, but he also has a relationship with Fromber Valdez and that's important to He managed Fromber for two years in Houston. He met with him before this signing. Does not surprise me that Aj has confidence in his ability to smooth over whatever issues may or may not exist. The Tigers look they One thing I really believe is they have created a good environment for players. They have a good clubhouse culture. They probably think they can bring him in without too much trouble, or at the very least that his upside is well worth any risk. So we'll see how this happens. He's gonna have to adjust to a lot of things, a new team, new people. It's gonna have to play, you know, from an indoor park to pitching in freezing cold weather all the time. We'll see how those things go over another Jake Rodgers. These guys played together in the minor leagues up to up to High A before Rogers was traded. So one of the two catchers Valdez already has a relationship with. Now, if you're not familiar with the incident here and alluded to, I think the second half last season there was a big hub ub what appeared to be Valdez potentially you know, catcher called I believe curveball. Valdez through a sinker hit his catcher with the astros in the chest. It kind of appeared to be intentional. Valdez had a indifferent reaction in the moment. It was strange. Now, all parties denied it being intentional, but it was a thing. It raised a lot of questions. Why, you know, that's not something you can do to your teammate. So maybe it's im born that at least one of the catchers there has caught from Bravaldees in the past, has some experience with him, probably knows how to communicate with him. That may be no small thing in this either, even if it's Dylan Dingler who ends up catching most, if not all, of from Bravell does his innings. So those are some of the factors at play. I think pitching wise, look Fromber's still really good. He is an elite ground ball pitcher. I think ninety seven percentile in ground ball raid and he's like that every single year. Tigers tend to have success with ground ball pitchers. Infield defense will be interesting. I don't think they have the greatest infield defense in the world, but they're pretty good at positioning.

00:13:43
Speaker 2: It's worked for them in the past. The guys who really struggled.

00:13:47
Speaker 3: In recent years have been Charlie Morton, can Toomai Eta, Chris Paddock, more fly ball type guys. So he's gonna get you a lot of ground balls. He doesn't necessarily help you miss more bats. He's middle of the pack, but he didn strike out eight to nine guys per nine innings, so not shabby. A lot of sinkers and a curveball that's really good at a curveball that can miss a.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: Lot of bats.

00:14:10
Speaker 3: This guy who's thrown a no hitter before, so when he gets rolling, he can be dominant overall. Look, he's not tek Skubl, but he's been rock solid. He's been consistent, he's been durable, and you gotta think that's worth the risk here.

00:14:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly worth the risk. And and and again, like people are gonna get heavily attached to the average annual value deferral aspect, how it compares to the schoolble arbitration stuff. That's all separate, Like, that's all separate. This is it's an expensive short term contract even if the player option is not exercise, So that that is that is worth noting as well. I did want to get to a little bit of a winners and losers list. The winners obviously valid as he gets paid you know AJ. This is this has AJ written all over it. Again, like at the very least a sign off from AJ had to be a part of this, the losers thing, because we spent a lot of time. I mean, we had Troy Meltain discussions out the Wazoo Cody that are now largely Troy because Troy Melton, as the you know, injuries can happen. We all understand this, But as the projected starting five is currently constructed, Troy Melton's on the outside looking in as a starter, and then as is Drew Anderson, who was given a contract and will enter and will still enter spring training, as will Meltin obviously as a starter. So now this there will be a battle for the number five spot all of a sudden, is you know, pending an injury, it's kind of set. Your five is kind of set. So that's so those are some losers there, and you know what, I'll throw Scott Harrison and Chris Iloch in there, because the number one criticism was the inability to go out and get guys and spend money. And how do you feel about this? This is an example of going out and get a guy and they spend as some money, so like, so they have to be winners there as well. So the like problem solved for some of your spring training content, Gody, you don't have to worry about a number five starter battle to write about.

00:16:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I had written that this was going to put the Tigers' financial principles to the test, talking about the schoobol Ar deal, the TV stuff, the idea that the Schoobol arbitration case was going to weigh heavily on whether the Tigers got another picture of substance.

00:16:50
Speaker 2: Well, maybe it did put things to the test.

00:16:52
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what went down, but it turns out they went out and they spend, and they spent in a meaningful way. Scott Harris and Chris Illich definitely looked like winners here, and I've already gotten several text messages about it.

00:17:05
Speaker 2: This doesn't look so good if the Tigers just turn around and trade Schooble.

00:17:09
Speaker 3: Right my understanding, at least in this moment, Tigers are keeping Trek Scouble and so again you might just have the best one two punch in the American League, certainly one of the best ones two punches in baseball without any question. Yeah, I mean, what a what a perception win, at least for relig has Yeah.

00:17:29
Speaker 1: I never and colored me naive. I never thought this as it went down in the hours since. I never thought this as any indication that they might look to trade Terrek Schooble. Now, obviously it gives you more options down the line if things get really bad. So I'm not discounting anything like that. But just like here and now and how we expect the Tigers to be. I never thought that was a thing at all. Color me naive, but I never really thought that was a thing at all. I thought this was made with the intention of maximizing twenty twenty six with the options that are on the table in terms of adding to your team. You know, this is a This is a like the Tigers are now going to be at the tops or you know, in the top charts or whatever, of having spent this offseason because of the glabor qualifying off, because Jack Flaherty opted into his contract, because of getting Canley Jensen, because of this contract here and if Schoolbl wins arbitration, that's you know, either way, it's an increase. But you know he wins arbitration, that's quite an increase as well. So this feels, like I said, and all aboard tight move. I don't think this is a move to make to be able to trade Tarrek Schoolbl. I don't think that at all. Color me naive, Like I said, I don't. I didn't put that in there. And for whatever it's worth, contractually obligated but unsponsored Arrek Schoobel segment he shared the breaking news graphic on Instagram live and and put a couple like horse emojis on there or whatever. So he's like, it seems like he's excited to have another horse in a liyap given everything that's going on with him and his personal financial situation with the Tigers. So to me, this is not a move without risk. This is obviously you know, this is an older picture, but the framework is there, the track record is there, the connections are there, the experience is there. It's hard for me not to feel overly optimistic about what this could mean. I certainly didn't feel about this way about Alex Cobb last year. I certainly, even though he was coming off a World Series win, didn't feel this way about Jack Flaherty. Like this does feel like a more serious move that the Tigers have made in quite some time. And maybe I'm overreacting, but that's what you do when you do an emergency podcast.

00:19:57
Speaker 3: It might be the biggest move the Tigers have made in my time covering them. I mean, Jave Bayas was the biggest contract and there were red flags there and I think it was very easy to see that going wrong, even more so than the from Ravaldez deal is now. Eduardo Rodriguez was a big deal. I think Frombert objectively has been more consistent than Eduardo Rodriguez. Ever was trading Estoc Paradis for Austin Meadows was a really big win now move at the time that just didn't work out.

00:20:28
Speaker 2: But this is spending, this is when. Now, this is taking on a little bit.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: Of a risks of playoffs.

00:20:35
Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was about to say.

00:20:37
Speaker 3: You have a playoff team now and you're making this type of move, which I think is an important distinction. And again this signals pitching. It might be the Tiger's path to victory, regardless of if the offense is better or the same or worse. If this pitching staff can stay healthy, it could be really really good. Jack Flaherty, Casey May's results, and not to mention for Melton, Drew Anderson and the prospect of getting some contribution from Jackson Joe before the end of the year. Also, have we not brought this up yet? All scooble Flarty mice free agents after the year. Fromer, He's going to be with you for at least one additional year, So it's not planning into the unlimited future. But if Scoobale walks, hey, you're keeping your lefty lefty ace type and getting a fully healthy Jackson job, you feel better. We already feel better about the twenty twenty seven Tigers, assuming there's a twenty twenty seven season than we did two hours ago.

00:21:38
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that is a good note, and that's kind of what I was mentioning with like the flexibility there and and all that stuff. But okay, so if the offense is the same or marginally better, your pitching staff should be substantially better and that should result in an improved team. So everything's got to play out. But I like what the Tigers have been able to do, and that's not even you know, not even mentioned I know, mentioned Jansen, but that's not even to mention like what should be like a better, more at least diverse and flexible back end of the bullpen and in addition to everything else. So this is this is a come up for the Tigers right here. I'll be honest with you, this is a come up for the Tigers right here. Come up to level paying guys, come up to status, making making like assurances to the fan base that hey, we're serious about this year. And then lastly, I just wanted to put this out there. Do not buy into any I'm gonna try to be kind here any people that are just trying to get a reaction on social media saying that this is an indictment of how they view Trek Schoogle, that they only we're willing to give Trek Schoogle nineteen million, but they'll pay fromber an average of thirty eight. These are independent all right, This is not like, oh, well Schoogle said no to nineteen so we're gonna pray fromber this.

00:23:15
Speaker 2: Like like that's just ignore that. Just ignore that.

00:23:19
Speaker 1: Just ignore that. There's a lot of that out there already and it's going to continue. Just ignore that. That would be my last piece of advice. All right, anything else, Cody before we wrap up this spot.

00:23:28
Speaker 3: I think that's all I got for now. We're going to talk in the coming days to Scott Harris, maybe a J. Hinch from ravaldees himself. We'll digest this a little more, read up a little more, scout up a little more, and we'll be back with a lot more from ravaldesk talk. Thank you guys for staying up with us on an exciting night in Tiger's land.

00:23:48
Speaker 1: Yes, and if you haven't already, subscribe to us on YouTube, at Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. Tiger Territory at Cody Stapenhagen I'm at here and on this course decly pot pages at Tiger Territory Underscore four. So for Cody stave in Hagen, I'm Ker Stackley. Everybody, have great night,