Ken Rosenthal’s WM report: Trade talks, Phillies sign back Kyle Schwarber, Dodgers land Edwin Diaz

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Foul Territory live at the Winter Meetings in Orlando. Oh, it's on today. Nothing happened yesterday. Things are happening this morning. You've got Shober talk, We've got it, Mendez talk. Money is moving.

00:00:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were supposed to have Dave Roberts, which something came up and I don't know why he can't for the last second. Something happened crafts for the Dodgers. I don't know exactly what, but something did.

00:00:24
Speaker 1: We're hearing things, Pratt.

00:00:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have an idea, but I'll let I won't bury the leaf.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: Good good. We're gonna start with the other move though. So let's hit some breaking news here. Kyle Schwarber signing with a team in Pennsylvania, the Philadelphia Phillies. Sorry Pirates.

00:00:50
Speaker 2: Weird though he got five years and the Pirates only offered four years.

00:00:53
Speaker 4: Oh, man, Ken's shrining.

00:00:55
Speaker 1: You were in on him though, right, five years, one hundred and fifty million dollars. The Phillies are Hey, Pittsburgh, fuck off with your BS offer. So Schwarber's back.

00:01:05
Speaker 2: What did Jim Boden say yesterday? You got it. If you're the Pirates, you gotta go extra years and you gotta go five minutes and that would have been what six years.

00:01:16
Speaker 1: You're Schwarber, I throw that at you. You're at least having a thought. Yes, they're saying, no, you're like, I.

00:01:25
Speaker 2: Love John Bremberg. I'm glad I didn't get my own Pirates Swoberg Jersey. That's a great tweet, by the way, but come on, it's what It's what Jim Boden said. You're like, if you're if you're the Pirates, you got to show people that you're actually trying by signing somebody, and you have to overpay. And but we'll let crats talk about this because I think this is huge for the Phillies and Topper. Topper got extended.

00:01:48
Speaker 3: Also, Topper's just he's just he's He's always gonna have a uniform on. This is a matter of who is gonna pay him. But so I got to leave yesterday while you guys were doing all your stuff with the other manager's voter my guy, because I got to watch a middle school girls basketball game and one of the girls shot a logo three pointer that landed like fifteen feet short of the hoop. I mean, it's middle school girls basketball, but that's pretty much what the Pirates offered when they offered Schwarbert a four year deal, because you knew it was gonna be the Phillies. We're gonna make a run, and so whatever anybody else offered, you might as well push it. If I'm the Mets, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna push it. You know, five years, one forty to make the Phillies pay a little bit more so. No, the Pirates weren't ever really in. And this is huge for the Phillies because they get that leader that we talked about with Jim Bowden yesterday, and they get a guy who has made some significant adjustments at the plate. You just hope he he and Harper and Trey Turner, the other guys on long term contracts age gracefully because you can only have one DH to night.

00:03:00
Speaker 1: This was the target too, right Kratz. How much does he mean to the Phillies?

00:03:06
Speaker 2: I mean, he was this one. Always seemed like he was going back to the Phillies. I'm sorry the Phillies. Listen, the other teams would they have loved him, but if Phillies seemed like they needed him more. And one thing about Dave Dombrowski, John Middleton in the Philadelphia Phillies. If they if they put their head in their mind on somebody, they're gonna go get them. And they did it. We saw with Bryce, we saw with Trey Turner, we saw with Real Muta. Now will they bring real Muto back? Right, That's now the next thing for them? Will they will they go there?

00:03:31
Speaker 1: So hold up though, I don't feel comfortable with the same exact team again, and most of Philadelphia doesn't. Kratz and I don't know. I know they don't have a say Vans, But isn't the pulse in Philly that they have to do something different and not keep rolling out the same team. I'm not saying, gone, sign Swarb, I'm not saying gone sign Real Muto. But at the end of the day, when we get through the off season, are the Phillies going to look essentially the same minus Ranger Suarez?

00:04:00
Speaker 3: I mean I said this after they lost to the Mets the year before, and everybody's like, you can't, you can't run the same team back?

00:04:10
Speaker 1: Why not?

00:04:11
Speaker 3: They're still a good team. Are they just not good enough to win in the playoffs? Only time will tell. Well, so far, they haven't been right they've regressed each year. They've gone twenty two World Series, twenty three lost in the NLCS, twenty four and twenty five lost in the NLDS. I still believe they were the second best team in the National League, And are you really blowing something up to not do that? And maybe you just get maybe you just get a maybe you get some young infusion by you know, Justin Crawford and Aidan Miller coming in and solidifying some positions and willing to make I still think Dombrowski is willing to make a trade that will be more than Nick Costianos, which you keep hearing. And I'm unfortunately for Phillies fans, they're gonna be like, oh yeah, Nicossiono's beat it. He's your hottest hitter in the playoffs. If your team can't hit in the playoffs and yet you're getting you want to get rid of your best hitter in the playoffs. Just be careful what you wish for, is all I got to say.

00:05:16
Speaker 2: As a fan.

00:05:17
Speaker 1: Well, he's gone. I think that the public messaging from them has been that he's gone. Even if they have to just do a buyout and a team signs him for a league minimum deal. I think a team will trade for him and take on a million bucks or two. And we talked about it in yesterday show. People want to backtrack to that. But I am very against rolling out the same team each year. I'm very against it.

00:05:38
Speaker 2: The last year something and they brought in some different people last year. Yeah, I think they ran out the exact same team.

00:05:46
Speaker 1: I mean, the lineup's been a flub in the playoffs for the last couple of years.

00:05:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. I guess I don't know. I don't know. I kind of disagree with you that I don't either. I think that this team has been really good in the seas, but they've also twenty three or the year they played the Diamondbacks, Come on, they should have won. They were up what three to one in that series. Yeah, they should have won that series. Twenty two day, you can make an argument they should have won the World Series. I know the Astros did, but they were up in that series. They got no hit and just kind of fell apart.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: Twenty great, but I'm saying here was my thing craft you can vouch for me.

00:06:28
Speaker 2: Twenty five they ran into the Dodgers, which everyone said was the world series.

00:06:32
Speaker 1: No doubt, no doubt, it's gotta try something else.

00:06:35
Speaker 3: I know.

00:06:35
Speaker 2: It's just so.

00:06:36
Speaker 3: Why why, Scott, Why do we gotta try something else?

00:06:40
Speaker 1: They're getting shut down in the playoffs. They're getting they're getting pitched to, and they're getting shut down. And I said this at the beginning of last season and the last offseason. You remember, I was like, the Phillies feel like a great regular season team to me, and it happened to a t And I get it. They weren't getting through the Dodgers, okay, and they gave them a you know, okay fight. But I think when something happens multiple times to a team like this that has a winning window of players that will eventually close.

00:07:10
Speaker 2: Three is called maybe they beat the Dodgers in their celebrating World series.

00:07:13
Speaker 1: Like the players, I'm okay, I got it. The core. I love Schwarber they.

00:07:20
Speaker 5: Did they had that was helpful, but he got more of that. And also they had uh Wes will Wilson and all the bench guys were different. They get stubby and they brought in the Marshawn back up guys, so they they made changes.

00:07:38
Speaker 2: But you're not trading Harper Turner remote to shore boom. Well, they mean they tried to boom. Costianos was off the table until now right, So they had all these guys Marshes there, their bullpen is they the bullpen was changed. They completely flipped the bullpen.

00:07:54
Speaker 1: I would get a fresh outfield, which sounds like they might do to an extent that. It also could involve Justin Crawford, who I think is ready from the minor league system. That's Carlson. And then I mean they're trying to move Bom. He's a movable player. They're just looking at who would replace him. They're not going to necessarily hit the free agent mark and be like Alex Bregman, come on down.

00:08:18
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, if I think if Schwarber wasn't in the fold, yes, that's what you'd look at. You'd look at another guy who's like a leader, somebody who's gonna be out there every single day, replaced Bam, you know that kind of thing. Somebody replace Costiano's probably not going to be Tucker as much as they pursued him. You know. With with Schwarber in the fold, it seems like they're gonna bring real Muto back. My thing is, you can't just go based on Okay, we didn't we didn't get the job done. I know that's how everybody wants to look at it. But when you're building your team, you say, what did we not do well in the playoffs? Okay, we didn't score runs. But who was the best pitcher in the playoffs? Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Okay had I think they scored three or four runs off of them in one inning? Guy that was unhittable for the rest of the league in the playoffs. H you know, how's our starting rotation. You're gonna get Wheeler back? When what's he gonna look like? Don't know, pretty solid rotation. To me, it's the bullpen that needs to be able to hold these games down because they're going to play the Dodgers, and the Dodgers you can't give them an inch because they'll take a mile. And it's just it's one of those things they have to To me, I don't think it's a big huge change because the team is really good and they make adjustments as a lineup together. They just have to do it in the playoffs like the Dodgers did two years ago.

00:09:49
Speaker 1: Let's finish with this. Did other teams mess up by not pursuing Kyle Schwarber further, I mean, yes.

00:09:58
Speaker 2: But overpay. They're gonna overpay. He was gonna go back to Philly. Okay, he's happy in Philly. He's got a great place in Philly. He's got a chance to become legendary status in Philly. So you're gonna have to overpay to get him out of Philly. And they weren't got his friends there. Yeah, he's got everything there. So yeah, No, did ever the teams mess up? No, yes, but no because they probably weren't gonna get him anyways.

00:10:24
Speaker 1: We from reports, and there's all kinds of reports leading up to this signing. Over the past week. I saw teams aside from Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. We saw the Mets pop up yesterday I left, but we saw the Orioles pop up. You saw that one, right, And I was like, okay, yeah, but it would have been a great fit.

00:10:48
Speaker 2: No, it's easy for all these teams to pop up, but it's really hard for teams to put the pen to paper and put it down an actual offer. Some of these offers are when you're a free agent, they'll be like, well, what if we offered you this, and then your agent's like, is that a real offer? And they're like no, no, no, no, But what if we did offer you that? Well, unless you make that offer, I can't give you a yes or no. But what if we what?

00:11:12
Speaker 4: What if?

00:11:12
Speaker 2: What if the pirates said we'll give you four years one hundred in kylege Robber's agent was like, is that a real offer? And they're like no, but just we're just so we can say that we made you a quote offer, right, Like that's it's not a real offer. It's like in college football when they're like, oh, I have an offer from Miami. But sometimes kids have offers, but they're not committable offers. Right. You can't just oh, I'm going to Miami. They offered me. Well, we offered you, but there's conditions on it. Right. It's the same thing in here a free agency, we're going to give you. What if we gave you this offer, would you take it? Well? Is that a real offer?

00:11:48
Speaker 3: No?

00:11:48
Speaker 2: Okay? But then I can't say yes or no.

00:11:50
Speaker 3: What a great What a great analogy. I hope kids who are in high school and parents of high school kids or parents of kids, people that know kids who are in tall and are going through the college process. The only offers that you actually have are ones that are penned to paper. This is what you're offering, not.

00:12:12
Speaker 2: How does this look for you? Does this?

00:12:14
Speaker 3: What would this do for you? It's like, oh, well that would be great. Well, actually, hang on, hang on, hang on, hangout. We're not offering quite yet. That's a good analogy.

00:12:24
Speaker 1: The Reds should have been the team for me, I never thought, but they're not.

00:12:27
Speaker 2: Going to pay that and we had Tito on here yesterday.

00:12:29
Speaker 1: They should have been the team.

00:12:30
Speaker 2: They should have been, but they're not going to do it.

00:12:33
Speaker 1: Though.

00:12:34
Speaker 2: You have to understand, like it's easy to say the red should have been this team, but again, the Reds were gonna have to overpay and they weren't going to overpay. Every How many times have we had this conversation on this show. How many general managers and presidents of baseball ops and owners are risk averse and they don't want to be that guy that, oh I might change the market for other teams by overspending, even though that's the guy I want. And college war would fit perfectly on the Reds from Ohio. Teach some of the kids how to play all that, but they would have to probably overspend, and they don't want to be the team that breaks the market.

00:13:07
Speaker 1: Oh well, hello, more breaking news.

00:13:14
Speaker 2: Why would do these guys back to back?

00:13:16
Speaker 1: Scott breaking news. Edwin Diaz to the Dodgers three years, sixty nine million dollars giggey. Wow. The Mets decided Devin Williams for three point fifty ish over Edwin Diaz for three seventy ish. Wow. So let's first start with the Dodgers. Let's first start with terrible.

00:13:41
Speaker 2: So Dodgers a good thing. They don't have a salary count. I'm just gonna say that.

00:13:46
Speaker 1: Dave Roberts wants to cap the team, but right now he can't, so he is forced to get better.

00:13:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, another great player. And by the way, uh, Kyle schwar reverse Edwin Diaz. Those numbers are not good. Have ever seen those numbers?

00:14:01
Speaker 4: Oh?

00:14:01
Speaker 2: No, Well, in the regular season, I think he's over ten with eight punches, and then if you go to the playoffs, he's oh for a lot more with more punchies. It's like one of the craziest things of all time. But I mean, listen to Dodgers. Ain't messing around. They've won two in a row. What was the one thing that we said, who? What did they have? Bullpen and high leverage? What guy in the ninth inning closer? Guess what they just signed for three years? The guy, the guy, the best closer we got going probably right now, right. I mean, you can make arguments somewhere here or there, but one of the top three closers in baseball strikeout stuff dependable other than if he plays in the WBC, which I'm sure the Dodgers probably had a conversation. We're like, we're not gonna let you do that this year. But this is the guy, I mean perfect. Their lineups pretty much all back, depending on what they want to do. If they want to find a center fielder. Sorry an the.

00:14:56
Speaker 1: Air people trying to get autographs from AJ but can't make.

00:15:03
Speaker 2: This this right. So the Dodgers needed a closer. They went out and get them. They're they're there. Their position players are pretty much said. Other than if they do something with Teo or find a center field or whatever, they figure out their one thing is. But this is the move their snow glass, snow Domamoto, Sazaki, boom right, and then they're bullpend out. They get healthy Tanner Scott and they get Cope, Kopek comes back and all these guys that they also have training trying bounces back like this team just way, way, way better. I'm sorry fans, but guess who's number one of my power rankings.

00:15:37
Speaker 1: The Dodgers Edwin Diaz had any ridiculous year or two.

00:15:41
Speaker 2: Especially when they're number one the whole year and they went and everyone says, I hate the Dodgers, even though there's still number one for and there's still gonna be number one.

00:15:48
Speaker 1: Crats we're here, and I feel like Dave Roberts, Brandon Gomes, et cetera, the manager of the GM.

00:15:54
Speaker 2: I saw Brandon Gohmes justey, he didn't even mention this to me. I'm mad at him.

00:15:57
Speaker 1: Well there they've been publicly saying we're pretty much good. We don't have to do anything. If something falls in our lap, we'll do it. I think they evaluated the marketplace and they were like, hold up, best closer, flash reliever by far on the market is not going for five years, not going for four years. They love a short term, high average annual value value deal. This is exactly up their alley. So as someone has said, like they hang around the backboard and then they're just ready to scoop up a rebound. I mean, this is a no brainer for them.

00:16:30
Speaker 3: Everybody thinks they're hanging around waiting for rebounds and they're pushing people out of the way. This was this was out there for anybody. Like the fact that Devin Williams got three years is why the Mets, you know, risk averse all that stuff that we've already talked about, Well we can't get we can't get Edwin dis because he's probably gonna get four or five years because hater got five years ninety five, Oh wait, you got three years. It because in no way they sat there and they go, we didn't like what Devin Williams gave us last year. We didn't like what he gave us the last five years. Is the second most dominant closer in the game. Like I just I just have a hard time believing that they they valued the market the way that it ended up turning out because of the fact that they went to somebody commodity and Devin Williams they don't even know. And the Dodgers are like sure, like yeah, we're we're breaking the aav for a closer. No reliever has gotten this much money per year. We're actually paying him less than we're paying Tanner Scott. Uh, Edwin Diaz is way better than what Tanner Scott was when we signed him.

00:17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, a one to six three ERA thirty eight percent strikeout percentage. So he had an opt out. He opted out of the final two years thirty eight. Okay, we'll finish up here.

00:18:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:18:01
Speaker 1: Uh, two years thirty eight million was left for DS.

00:18:05
Speaker 2: You got three six opted out, so you.

00:18:07
Speaker 1: Got another year and another or a thirty one million for him, So three years sixty nine. But I'm just shocked that the Mets made that decision that.

00:18:16
Speaker 2: I'm shocked the Mets didn't bring him back. Now, what does this mean for a Lonzo? Is the question?

00:18:20
Speaker 1: Click, maybe they're not bringing the band back together.

00:18:23
Speaker 3: The better be to knee. Clearly, you better bend to knee. That's what it means.

00:18:28
Speaker 2: Who better been the knee? The Mets?

00:18:30
Speaker 3: No people to whom fan favorite, fan favorite, the guy that everybody every year you heard the media at the bbwa's always say, oh, yeah, you know, this guy should win. You know, favorite favorite player in the clubhouse every year by the media. Edwin DS closer EXTRAORDINAI pushed them to where they were last year and the year before, like was has.

00:18:58
Speaker 2: Killed it for him gone.

00:19:00
Speaker 3: Pine Alonzo might have to just say, yes, this is how much the Mets are offering, and I'm gonna have to sign there because they're clearly not going to go over what they view his worth is.

00:19:17
Speaker 1: This is the best inside scoop because he is in person with us Ken Rosenthal at d Senior inside running around the winter meetings right now. Good to see you, Ken. Right to business because we had not one but two big moves this morning. I'll give you dealer's choice. Which one would you like to start with?

00:19:30
Speaker 4: Daz for sure, okay?

00:19:31
Speaker 6: And I only say that because the shore burmove was largely expected, even with all the action on him. The Fillers were the favorite from the very beginning, and it was just a question of when do we get done, how it get done, what the money would be, and they went to a level that most guys who project this stuff projected five years, one hundred and fifty million. Daz was a stunner, and everyone knew that the Dodgers were in on relievers, late inning relievers. But the feeling was is that only on a one year deal or short term. They wouldn't necessarily want to qualifying off for guy lose two draft picks. Well, they went to three years, they lost two draft picks and a million dollars in international bonus money. And they're acting like the Dodgers always act, So we probably shouldn't have been surprised by.

00:20:17
Speaker 2: Any of this.

00:20:18
Speaker 1: That's really good and they don't care.

00:20:20
Speaker 4: They don't care like a million dollars.

00:20:22
Speaker 1: Don't know. I don't know what is there because he keeps finding players winning.

00:20:27
Speaker 4: Yes, the purpose of the sport is to win.

00:20:28
Speaker 6: And I know this will probably evoke a fresh round of the Dodgers are ruining baseball, But if you remember, it went down to the ninth inning of the actually beyond the ninth inning of the last game of the World Series, and they were two outs away from losing that suckers, so hey. Obviously they had made some bullpen moves last year they did not work out so well for them.

00:20:50
Speaker 4: Edwin Diez is much more of.

00:20:52
Speaker 6: An established guy than Tanner Scott was and Kirby Yates was older of course, but it's a huge move for them, obviously, and what they like about their team is Not only do they have the starters from last year coming back, but they've got some younger starters coming off injuries. Gavin Stone, River Ryan and Kyle Hurt. These guys have had varying levels of success in the big leagues already, and now they're entering and ran thering the picture for LA.

00:21:20
Speaker 2: Are there deferrals in this contract? Do we know anything about that?

00:21:22
Speaker 4: We don't know for sure yet, but I expected there will be deferrals.

00:21:25
Speaker 2: Okay, so the Dodgers are trying to make moves before the CBA happens and whatever changes come up. But also, isn't this the one hole they really have the Dodgers, and they filled.

00:21:35
Speaker 4: It the hole and I expect they'll fill that, but a.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: Bigger need honestly, that was we saw the way the playoffs they had to throw Sazaki out there. Sure, right, so this this fills another major hole. They're ruining baseball can and their manager wants a salary cap. Well, guess what if you have a salary cap, you ain't probably getting Edwin Diaz? Right, So how do we here's something to keep doing this?

00:21:58
Speaker 6: I think you're right Aja about they want to get this done before whatever new restrictions come into play. In the next CBA come into play, there might not be a salary cap, but there probably will be. It's not a salary cap stricter luxury tax penalties, thresholds that maybe that would be difficult for.

00:22:15
Speaker 4: Them, whatever the case might be.

00:22:17
Speaker 6: So, yeah, there is strategy in doing that right now and trying to get all you can before the CBA strikes.

00:22:25
Speaker 4: But even if there is a salary cap, we've seen this. The Dodgers are one of the smartest teams in the game. They're still gonna be good. They're not gonna be that limited.

00:22:34
Speaker 6: And some of the bad teams are still gonna be bad because they're not that creative, they're not that smart in the way they go about it. So I said this before, I'll say it again. A cap would address some things, for sure, and maybe in a way that would benefit the game, but it's not going to change the fortunes of franchises automatically. If you're not good in the NFL with a cap, you're generally not good.

00:22:56
Speaker 4: The Jets, the Cleveland Browns, they're not.

00:22:58
Speaker 1: Good, thank you.

00:22:59
Speaker 6: So I don't know that the competitive balance question is really all that fair here.

00:23:05
Speaker 4: It's obviously part of it. And I've said this before, I'll say it again.

00:23:09
Speaker 6: The sport needs to do a better job of shrinking the payroll disparity.

00:23:14
Speaker 4: And there are ways to do that beside a cap.

00:23:16
Speaker 6: But at the same time, let's not pretend it's going to be a panacea for some of these teams that aren't competitive.

00:23:24
Speaker 3: Can you can you compare and then move forward on Robert Swarez? Can you compare Devin Williams contract that he signed, which I thought was maybe a little short to Edwin's contract that he signed, and then moving forward, what does this mean for Robert Swarez? Who's left in the market and is he going to get just a tear down? Is he in between Devin Williams? Where's that market playing out at for him?

00:23:51
Speaker 6: I'm not exactly sure, Eric, where it plays out in terms of the dollars.

00:23:55
Speaker 4: Is he more highly regarded than Devin Williams. I'm not sure.

00:23:59
Speaker 6: Little old and a guy that is really good, obviously, but Devin Williams is seen as an extreme talent. Dodgers ran on him. Now you ask me which teams that I can speculate on. The Mets still want another late inning guy. The Braves still want another late inning guy, and there are a number of other teams as well, the Tigers, all kinds of teams looking for that kind of stopper at the end of games.

00:24:26
Speaker 4: So Suarez is going to do well.

00:24:28
Speaker 2: Now.

00:24:28
Speaker 6: I don't know if he does better than Devin Williams or not, but he's going to do well.

00:24:31
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the Mets side of the equation here, and I think this ties into the Dodgers. They looked at Diaz and said, wait, three years, not five, not four to three years for sixty nine. Sure, we'll play ball. Anthony Dicomo, who covers the Mets MLB, said he was told the Mets offered three years sixty six with slight deferrals and had room to improve that number. But he just set up, got three years sixty nine, and I'm gone, how does that happen? When Williams? I mean, I know, fifty versus seventy million, it's something, But for the Mets, it shouldn't be much. And I think most people would be like, I'm gonna take the commodity I know has pitched well.

00:25:06
Speaker 6: Here, I just saw a Mets fan in the lobby and he said to me, how can the Mets get out bid for a guy that they supposedly.

00:25:13
Speaker 4: Wanted with Steve Cohen as their owner. Fair question.

00:25:17
Speaker 6: And if you're at sixty six and you got beat out by sixty nine, obviously Edwin wanted to set a mark and the Mets didn't get there.

00:25:24
Speaker 4: So we'd heard originally that.

00:25:27
Speaker 6: Edwin wanted five years similar to what he had before, five years one oh two.

00:25:31
Speaker 4: But that's twenty million avy.

00:25:32
Speaker 6: This is twenty three again before deferrals, which will bring it down.

00:25:36
Speaker 4: But the Mets are curious right now. They don't seem to be that heavy on anybody.

00:25:43
Speaker 6: They didn't get Shorebured. I don't expect didn't expect them to get Shoreburt. Are they hot on Alonso? It doesn't seem like it need a left fielder, They need starting pitching, and they don't want to go long term on any starting pitcher, which I kind of get.

00:25:56
Speaker 4: The market's not great those guys we are available, But all right, what's your answer? That's the question.

00:26:02
Speaker 2: David terns. He finds value and he's going to have to that's what he's supposed to be the best at. Right, Yeah, what about Schwarber. I know everyone expected him to go back to Philly, and I'm happy for him, and I'm happy for Philly. But my question is, we heard pirates, and we heard Reds and heard all these others. But was that serious, because this is what I was serious. But the pirates they go, okay, four years one hundred. They knew that wasn't going to get it done. Is it the offer where hey, if we all ken, if I offer you ten years one hundred, will you sign with the athletic? Yes, you would, okay? But but then they say, oh, we were just kidding. That's not a serious offer. Just tell us if you would, right. So to me, that's what it seemed like because as I've been a free agent and teams come to you and say, hey, if I offer you this, will you take it? Well, I'm not giving you that answer because it's just a real offer, and they and they were like, no, no, no, it's not a real offer. So were these real offers, because I they.

00:26:56
Speaker 4: Were real offers, but were they actually were they going to be?

00:26:59
Speaker 2: Yes?

00:26:59
Speaker 6: And I had someone in the industry say to me yesterday he thinks what the pirates were doing with Tarburg was performative, and I understand that.

00:27:07
Speaker 4: But if you're the Pittsburgh Pirates and you throw out a four year deal for.

00:27:11
Speaker 6: One hundred and twenty million when you haven't paid a free agent more than thirty nine million in your history, Okay, maybe you're not winning, but it's certainly a deal that is in the ballpark. It's the same aav he ultimately got from the Phillies, but with one more year. So I don't know that we can just rip the Pirate. I heard what Boden said yesterday. I didn't care for it. Oh they should have offered six years. They're doing more than they've ever done. They're signaling to the market, to the other players that they're serious. So sure was it.

00:27:42
Speaker 4: Gonna get it done? No? Were the Red's gonna get it done or be the high bidder? Probably not. They knew that from the very beginning. The Pirates knew that too, But they took their shots.

00:27:51
Speaker 6: And I don't know that we can sit here and rip these teams for never taking shots, and then rip them when they do take shots, even if they're not obviously the best footfall.

00:28:00
Speaker 1: But then go after the guys you think you have a fair shot at like they're going to do that. You know, let's just.

00:28:06
Speaker 4: Ada la court, chuck it behind. You know.

00:28:08
Speaker 6: I assume in the pirates case, they're going to sign some players. They're gonna have to overpay, probably and it's not gonna necessarily be pretty, but.

00:28:18
Speaker 2: They though they would have to overpay to get them to prove that they're seriously because you was not going to go for even if they but you think they were getting if they ever if they went six point eight.

00:28:30
Speaker 1: It makes that's why we have these guys on like, it makes them think for it. To me, it's like, oh, they're still a joke, that's all that. That was my thing. Everybody was hearing or you're reading he's gonna get five years and then this team gives him a four year offer.

00:28:43
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't see it that way.

00:28:45
Speaker 6: I see it as they're finally serious and no one was saying they're going to get the guy, but they were making an attempt. And I think it is a signal to the other teams or the other players in the market, I should say, and even teams that were so we want to surround Paul Skimes with better talent, and obviously it wasn't going to work here, but we'll see where it goes.

00:29:07
Speaker 2: Do you think they're gonna use the money somewhere else?

00:29:10
Speaker 4: I don't know if you'll use all one twenty or whatever it is, but I do believe they're going to spend.

00:29:15
Speaker 2: Okay, now at the higher level, I'm gonna ask you the next question. We had this conversation yesterday. Why all of a sudden the Pirates spending And don't say Paul Skins because this reminds us of the Oakland Athletics who are now the Sacramento Athletics or are soon going to be the Vegas Athletics told by Major League Baseball you have to spend money. Did Major League Baseball go to the Pirates and say, you guys have to spend money. We're gonna get a grievance because you're not spending anything.

00:29:37
Speaker 4: Aj I've written about this. I know you haven't read it, of course not.

00:29:41
Speaker 6: Can it be a motivator, yeah, can it be a motivator, yes, I don't know exactly what's motivating them. What should be motivating them is they have the best picture on the planet for four years more and they've got to do something. And the owner is ripped in Pittsburgh all the time, rightly so, and it's time for them to act in a different way than they have before. And no one expects them to act like the Dodgers. We'll get that, we all get what the industry is and disparities, but there are teams at their level that try, they don't try, or haven't tried. So there are a lot of eyes on them right now to see what they do and to see if they back it up, because as with the Tigers in schoobl it's only one year. With schoobl it's opportunities that don't come a long often. You don't have a Terrek Schooble on your staff for very many or many teams don't get that opportunity. The Pirates don't. Teams don't get that opportunity to have a Paul Skians. When you have that guy, you better fire, you better try.

00:30:42
Speaker 1: So that takes me to the article you wrote yesterday about the Tigers. What's going on with them? Are they going to trade him? And if not, are they going to go for it this year?

00:30:50
Speaker 6: I don't expect that they're going to trade him, and I don't know how hard they're going to go for it. Scott Harris, their president baseball Operations, is pretty disciplined, and I would say a borderline rigid in the way he goes about it. He's risk averse in my opinion. I know he would disagree. But you've got Trek Schoobel for one more year. You've gone to the playoffs two straight years with him.

00:31:13
Speaker 4: He's a big part of that. He's won two straight.

00:31:15
Speaker 6: Cy Young Awards. Why wouldn't you put your best foot forward here? I'm not saying do anything stupid, but what does that mean? It means going out and getting another bat and a number two starter behind him and fixing your bullpen.

00:31:27
Speaker 4: That's what That's a lot though, it's a lot.

00:31:28
Speaker 2: But where did Scott Harris come from?

00:31:30
Speaker 4: Chicago Cubs? And they in San Francisco Giants?

00:31:33
Speaker 2: And what are they? Both? Those organizations very averse.

00:31:35
Speaker 4: To spending and risk and risk pretty much the entire industry is averse.

00:31:41
Speaker 2: We've had this. That's a whole different conversation, but you see what I'm saying, Scott Harris came from, especially the Cubs. The Cubs won't go out and make that huge splash move right right? The Giants with he was under far Han, right, so he was kind of tall. Hey you can win if you find little tiny margins that is, I mean. See, so that's my question with the Times.

00:31:58
Speaker 6: Scott Harris's point would be, hey, we've done really well. We've made the playoffs too straight, here's what the game and absolutely, but the Tigers are not the Guardians.

00:32:10
Speaker 4: That's a big old market and it.

00:32:12
Speaker 6: Seems to me they had an owner once upon a time, the late Mike Gillich, who did not even act like they were in medium sized market.

00:32:20
Speaker 4: He spent.

00:32:21
Speaker 6: It's an owner's choice in many cases too, to do at this level or this level. Peter Sidler, the late Peter Siler, great example, transform that franchise by spending.

00:32:31
Speaker 4: Now, they haven't won the.

00:32:32
Speaker 6: World Series and they've had their problems, we all get that. But packing that stadium, they're putting an entertaining product on the field. It's a flawed product many times, but it's entertaining.

00:32:43
Speaker 4: That's the other way.

00:32:44
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about your latest ka tell Marte's trademarket. What are you hearing and do you think he actually gets moved? Of course the dimacks are you know, giving you the classic anywhere they've spoken, you know, Mike Casan Oh, you know, we'll listen on anyone. But it would take the world if we're gonna move.

00:33:00
Speaker 4: That's typical.

00:33:01
Speaker 1: But what's the real situation.

00:33:05
Speaker 6: My belief is they want to move him so they can fill some of the holes that they have on their team, and they have pitching holes right now in particular outfield, maybe as well where Jordan Lawler's gonna end up.

00:33:17
Speaker 1: It's not clear.

00:33:18
Speaker 6: But as I wrote, these things take time, and they take time. The Diamondbacks knew that three years ago they traded var Show. It was almost Christmas Eve, but they started those talks of the winter meetings. It's particularly complicated in Martine's case because of all that happened last year, the three days he missed at the after the All Star break, when he was back in the Dominican Republic after his home in Scott'sdale was burglarized, the article that came out in Arizona Republic by Nick Boccoro detailing the players' frustrations with him.

00:33:49
Speaker 4: Now, if you're a team looking at.

00:33:52
Speaker 6: Catel Marte, you're gonna look into this pretty heavily before you pay that price, and that might be part of the delay here too. So I can't predict whether he will be traded, but if I had to bet, I would bet yes, because tenth day of the season, his ten and five rights kick in.

00:34:06
Speaker 4: And then he has a full note trade clause.

00:34:08
Speaker 1: He's the best second basement in baseball in my opinion.

00:34:11
Speaker 4: Where you go, there any number of places he can go.

00:34:14
Speaker 2: Give me, give me, give me two.

00:34:16
Speaker 6: Boston would be one, and they've been in the in the mix depends on Bragman. Of course, the Mets now with Simon would not be a team Phillies. I'm sure they're a number of teams that heard.

00:34:33
Speaker 1: What about the Pirates?

00:34:34
Speaker 5: They can't what about that's that's the kind of the Pirates.

00:34:39
Speaker 1: That's what I said yesterday. And they have young Yeah, this guy can hit their offense with garbage lash and they need everything. I mean, Ben Jenson said, I need contact, I need a little power, and this is everything in a hitter. It's true, and it's in their price ring. That's a good call, right, five hundred dish whatever that that.

00:34:55
Speaker 6: They're getting hit on some of the younger pitchers, even after the Oviato trade, and and they could possibly move another to get the right back.

00:35:03
Speaker 1: Two more teams that have trade situations going on. Cardinals, What do you think about Brendan Donovan? I know you wrote about Gorman, newtbar etc. Contreras Donovan.

00:35:15
Speaker 6: I think goes It's very popular with a number of teams because he can do anything right in field, outfield, whatever you want him to be. They'll probably trade another one of their left handed hitters too with the nuke Bar Gorman. I don't think it will be Burlson and Wilson. Contreras is an interesting guy. Two years, about forty one million, with the buyout on the third year as a reasonable price in a shortage or in a situation where there is a shortage.

00:35:41
Speaker 4: Of right handed hitters. So I could see that happening too.

00:35:44
Speaker 6: And then there's Arnatto, and I would expect that they're going to try really hard to find a spot for him.

00:35:49
Speaker 4: Maybe after all this settles.

00:35:50
Speaker 1: Okay, And then last one the Nationals have Mackenzie Gore maybe c J. Abrams you wrote about what do you think happens there? It's a new GM. I liked his first move. I liked yeah like Ford.

00:36:01
Speaker 6: Yes, it's interesting situation. Britcherali just wrote about this with the Nationals. So if the Nationals come in and think, you know what, we're bringing in new people, new pitching coach, new analytics, maybe we can make McKenzie Gore better and his value will be even higher at the deadline when there's no free agent competition.

00:36:20
Speaker 4: That's one way to look at it.

00:36:22
Speaker 6: The risk in that is McKenzie Gore blows out or gets injured in any way in the first half and then his value plummets. So if I were the Nationals, I'd probably do it now, and I probably wait for maybe not even wait for the top free agents to sign. Mackenzie Gore is a total stud and he would transform a team. So if I'm the Nuts, I'm looking to do it now. C j Abrams it's not as clear, but they are drawing interest in him, and it's a similar kind of thing. There aren't a lot of shortstops out there. Bulbashet Is, some teams don't see him that way. Hashan Kim of course. So if you can get seed j Abrams three more years, that's pretty enticing.

00:37:04
Speaker 1: Gors Jekyll and Hyde pitchers, So I would be careful. Yeah, when he's good, he's a one ye, he's not good.

00:37:10
Speaker 6: But he's this past season it got If I'm a team, a contending team that has a strong pitching program, He's exactly the kind of guy that teams think, given to us, we'll fix.

00:37:22
Speaker 1: It right And for the Nats though, if he has a bad first staff, now, yeah, then you got a problem. You got a problem?

00:37:27
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:37:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Ken, good stuff.

00:37:30
Speaker 2: I get two questions for him, all right, quick quick? Hall of Fame yes or no?

00:37:33
Speaker 4: I need to get back to work.

00:37:35
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame yes or no? Should more than Jeff Ken have got in on the committee?

00:37:39
Speaker 6: My feeling is a j I would have been comfortable with any of those eight, honestly, so I would have been happy to see any of the eight getting now. Yeah, I know as I say that the BBWA did not elect these guys. I didn't vote for all of them, but I would have been comfortable with any of them.

00:37:54
Speaker 4: So Kent was a good choice, no question. I would have.

00:37:59
Speaker 2: Yes, unbelievable office was great.

00:38:00
Speaker 4: I saw what was the other question?

00:38:02
Speaker 2: You're the bravest man in Orlando right now? You have an iPhone with no case. What happens if you drop it?

00:38:08
Speaker 1: It gets scratched and he moves on he lives. He doesn't have to be one hundred percent to perform.

00:38:13
Speaker 4: I'm not that brave and I'm not that I should get a new case. There's one thing he learned.

00:38:19
Speaker 2: He doesn't need load management.

00:38:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, that's that's it.

00:38:22
Speaker 1: From Ken More on Fair Territory on Friday, special episode for meetings. There it is. And have a family par