Culture and Plants in Nuevo León, Mexico : Carlos "Aztekium" Velasco

<v Speaker 1>All right, welcome to the crime Pager Banni doesn't Podcast.
<v Speaker 1>I'm here with Nuevo Leone's finest, my friend, Carlos Velasco,
<v Speaker 1>also known as as Tikium.
<v Speaker 2>You're quite, You're quite.
<v Speaker 1>All the plant people I know and like Northern Mexico
<v Speaker 1>know you, by the way. They all have wonderful.
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, thank you so much, Thank you to yours.
<v Speaker 3>You're so kind. I mean, I'm just a regular guy
<v Speaker 3>who loves me. He bought any plans and stuff like that,
<v Speaker 3>and thank you for inviting me. I'm so glad to
<v Speaker 3>share a couple of words around here.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, but you've done a lot.
<v Speaker 1>I mean you've done a lot of stuff, especially for
<v Speaker 1>high naturalists. They're getting more people into using high naturalist
<v Speaker 1>and uh, just familiar. You wrote a book. You wrote
<v Speaker 1>a book on the plants. I mean, come on, I
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you being humble, but you know you've actually done
<v Speaker 1>a lot, a lot for plants in Mexico.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'm gonna drag a little bit. I'm number one
<v Speaker 3>guy in the documenting species in Make to Go, and
<v Speaker 3>I think I'm in the second in Latin America. Stuff
<v Speaker 3>like that. I mean anyway.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, yeah, thank you, thank you for thank you
<v Speaker 1>for being down to do this. So well, I want
<v Speaker 1>to talk about a few things. I mean, I want
<v Speaker 1>to I want to talk about, you know, plants in
<v Speaker 1>the popular consciousness in Mexican culture, at least in northern
<v Speaker 1>Mexico where you are.
<v Speaker 2>You're in mont Aray.
<v Speaker 1>But I first off, I wanted to talk about I
<v Speaker 1>guess what's been going on there. There was a big
<v Speaker 1>wash out for Quasteca Canyon that destroyed the road or
<v Speaker 1>made it impassable, I guess. And that's of course like
<v Speaker 1>the gateway to the northern Sierra Madre that you can
<v Speaker 1>get through through month Ray. It's I mean, it's pretty incredible.
<v Speaker 1>And then I wanted to ask about I guess there's
<v Speaker 1>a population of as Tiki and VALDIZII that might be
<v Speaker 1>impacted by some highway project.
<v Speaker 2>I assume you know about this.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, it's kind of well, there's a lot of
<v Speaker 3>things to talk about, but yeah, I mean, if you
<v Speaker 3>have been to northeast Mexico, especially to the city of Monterey,
<v Speaker 3>I mean, what's Teka Canyon is is one of the
<v Speaker 3>coolest places to visit if you like nature, and of
<v Speaker 3>course we are so close that that place is really
<v Speaker 3>close to the city, and many people want to buy
<v Speaker 3>a piece of land in there and start building their
<v Speaker 3>houses in there. But last year, two years ago, we
<v Speaker 3>have this huge tropical storm Alberto, which actually flooded a
<v Speaker 3>great part of the canyon and destroy the main access road,
<v Speaker 3>which is a good thing because access has been limited
<v Speaker 3>for a while, giving a chance to the ecosystem to
<v Speaker 3>recover a little bit. Actually that well, let me let
<v Speaker 3>me clarify. Was Teka Canyon is just one of the
<v Speaker 3>entrances to the Sierra Madra. You can go around by Saltillo,
<v Speaker 3>you can travel south to Santiago, and you can access
<v Speaker 3>some of those areas, but was Decca was a unique entrance.
<v Speaker 3>So we're getting rumors now that the government is going
<v Speaker 3>to try to rebuild that role, giving like new access
<v Speaker 3>to developers in there, and kind of an eternal struggle
<v Speaker 3>to preserve those areas.
<v Speaker 1>You know, Yeah, let's let's let's talk about this habitat
<v Speaker 1>though for anybody not lucky enough to be familiar with it,
<v Speaker 1>because it's fucking insane. I mean, when you look at
<v Speaker 1>the you look at a topographic map. Anybody who's listening,
<v Speaker 1>good to me a favor to go to Google Maps,
<v Speaker 1>put it on terrain layer and look at a topographical
<v Speaker 1>map of the mountains directly to the southwest of Monterey,
<v Speaker 1>and you'll see it looks like a carpet that's been
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a throw rug that's been pushed up
<v Speaker 1>against a like hardwood, you know, a door jam on
<v Speaker 1>a hardwood floor. Right, all those fold thrust belts. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>it's crazy habitat and it's created some of the right,
<v Speaker 1>I mean within you know, a very short drive of
<v Speaker 1>the city, basically in the city.
<v Speaker 2>So like this is not to raise back back door, right, yep.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I do remember the first time, well one
<v Speaker 3>of the first times you were that you were looking
<v Speaker 3>at the geology there, like the foldings, like the vertical cliffs,
<v Speaker 3>the vertical layers of of of those recalled the rocesmentaria
<v Speaker 3>like sedementary rocks. I'm sorry, I'm sorry if my English
<v Speaker 3>is not the best.
<v Speaker 1>No, it's perfect. We're learning Spanish anyway here. Everybody near,
<v Speaker 1>everybody's listening needs to learn Spanish.
<v Speaker 3>And yeah, those those canyons, I mean, you have hundreds
<v Speaker 3>of small canyons, dry arid climate and that gives a
<v Speaker 3>very unique opportunity to plant communities to develop in their
<v Speaker 3>own ways. We have a couple of cool endemisms. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>one of the most famous is a gab albopilosa, which
<v Speaker 3>is this gab with white hairs in the tip of
<v Speaker 3>the leaves. But we have other endemics like who's tsia
<v Speaker 3>is not? Whose mean? And thea was the census in
<v Speaker 3>theatas a family. We have the other agavez like a
<v Speaker 3>Gabe Victoria rahina, which has painted leaves with white lions.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's an amazing place to go both and
<v Speaker 3>icy in there, and pretty much whatever canyon you enter,
<v Speaker 3>you're gonna find something unique that it probably doesn't grow
<v Speaker 3>in other canyons. We we even recently rediscover a desert
<v Speaker 3>firm elects article not tonal and Nina leonina, which hasn't
<v Speaker 3>been seen like in the seventy years time gap.
<v Speaker 2>What's the species? Not Tolina?
<v Speaker 3>What Leoninaina?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not Tolina? A dope.
<v Speaker 1>That's a fucking dope genus a fern with the white
<v Speaker 1>west on the underside exactly.
<v Speaker 3>So I mean we're talking. I mean people keep saying
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing to be found there. There's a lot of
<v Speaker 3>things to rediscover or actually found new species. So that's
<v Speaker 3>one of the greatest things here around Monterey for nature
<v Speaker 3>loving people. You can go to the desert, you can
<v Speaker 3>go to temperate forest, you can go to subtropical areas,
<v Speaker 3>you can go to extreme desert. I mean, you won't
<v Speaker 3>let me lie. There's a lot of things to see
<v Speaker 3>around Mondory if you like, if you like plants, right.
<v Speaker 1>And when you're looking at these rock walls, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>what you're looking at is basically the ancient seafloor from
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and twenty million years ago that's now been
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's laid down horizontal and it has not
<v Speaker 1>been flipped up like an eighty degree angle or in
<v Speaker 1>some cases ninety degree angle.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's insane.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's insane. But you know, sadly many people doesn't
<v Speaker 3>care about that. I mean, if you if you like
<v Speaker 3>to climb, like rock climbing and stuff like that, that
<v Speaker 3>that's a paradise. And there's there's a lot of people
<v Speaker 3>coming from other countries, but sadly, people from around Monterey
<v Speaker 3>we take for granted those places and we don't really
<v Speaker 3>value the kind of species and all all the ecosystems
<v Speaker 3>that are there, I mean slowly changing for good, but
<v Speaker 3>it's it's take a couple of decades to work on that.
<v Speaker 3>It's it's the kind of things that you really need
<v Speaker 3>to go out and talk about it. But sometimes you
<v Speaker 3>need somebody from other places to come and talk about it.
<v Speaker 3>And we got that from your last visit a round.
<v Speaker 3>I had to say that, yeah, which is good. It's
<v Speaker 3>good because people listen sometimes to other people's like, oh man,
<v Speaker 3>this guy's from the US and he loves or plays,
<v Speaker 3>so maybe it's had something great to you all to
<v Speaker 3>offer us, and let's go and check it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, I definitely know what. Sometimes
<v Speaker 1>it takes an outsider's eyes to make you feel, you know,
<v Speaker 1>excited about where you live. I've definitely felt that before
<v Speaker 1>in the home place where I live. But you know,
<v Speaker 1>it's yeah, for me, it's crazy because you know, you
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of self Texas plants that we get here,
<v Speaker 1>but South Texas not that diverse, and it's much it's
<v Speaker 1>not much, but it's lower so it's hotter and there's
<v Speaker 1>not much diversity. But what blows my mind is like
<v Speaker 1>you go to Monterey and it's only it's only like oh, God,
<v Speaker 1>what would it be, uh, a thousand feet it's like
<v Speaker 1>three hundred meters four hundred meters of out of elevation,
<v Speaker 1>and the diversity just starts getting wild, man, because it's
<v Speaker 1>a milder climate with that elevation, slightly milder. And then
<v Speaker 1>also you've got all these little nooks and crannies in
<v Speaker 1>the in the canyons, and so they get more moisture
<v Speaker 1>and they're more shaded and it doesn't get as hot
<v Speaker 1>inside these So there's this little microclimate inside the canyon.
<v Speaker 1>And then you've got the stuff up top on, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and then the stuff growing in the rock walls, like
<v Speaker 1>plants that never grow out of like terrestrial soil. They
<v Speaker 1>all only grow out of crabs and rocks. It's fucking
<v Speaker 1>it's nuts, man, I get it. And it's like what
<v Speaker 1>you're closer to me than San Antonio is.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, it's we're not that far away. But
<v Speaker 3>the diversity that we get here, I mean, let's assume
<v Speaker 3>that you enter was Teka Canyon rarely in the morning.
<v Speaker 3>You will see all the deserti and all the cert
<v Speaker 3>species that grows there. You drive like five miles and
<v Speaker 3>drive to Lesstanzuela and you completely switch from desert environment
<v Speaker 3>to subtropical temperate forests along a creek and you get
<v Speaker 3>like oak forest tis. You get all these species, like
<v Speaker 3>even maple species.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it feels like Alabama. Man, that's what it
<v Speaker 1>felt like.
<v Speaker 2>St.
<v Speaker 1>Suela felt like Alabama woods, like Alabama, Georgia woods like
<v Speaker 1>southeastern US Woods's crazy.
<v Speaker 3>And again it's it's just the driving twenty minutes from
<v Speaker 3>from Lawasteka Canyon and I really would like to tell
<v Speaker 3>people go and take a look on I naturally said
<v Speaker 3>type was Teka Canyon or a mont Right National Park,
<v Speaker 3>and you will see an amazing diversity of plants, especially
<v Speaker 3>with endemisms. There's a lot of endemic plants just growing
<v Speaker 3>in a couple of canyons in there that will blow
<v Speaker 3>your mind. It's just taking a look in there.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what what it was cool to me?
<v Speaker 1>I just saw that betsamalva via Lasia, which I guess
<v Speaker 1>you get in like a small area of Big Band
<v Speaker 1>National Park, but that's the only spot that occurs in Texas.
<v Speaker 1>It looks like a like a big mexim alva, and
<v Speaker 1>it's a plant that would be amazing to get into cultivation,
<v Speaker 1>you know in the US because you at least in Texas,
<v Speaker 1>Texas is just Mexico, right, That's like the whole Jerry
<v Speaker 1>Jardowski thing. It's Mega Mexico and but it's you know,
<v Speaker 1>you could tell it probably at one point grew in
<v Speaker 1>Texas most likely, but then was you know, either snuffed
<v Speaker 1>out from climate change or you know, land destruction, or
<v Speaker 1>just because it's it's a little too hot for it.
<v Speaker 1>And you say, the real Grand Valley, right, but like
<v Speaker 1>Austin area would do great, incredible plant too.
<v Speaker 2>That's a rare one, right, Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>It's not very often that we see that. It's kind
<v Speaker 3>of restricted to certain areas in the oak pine forests
<v Speaker 3>in Chippea, Ca in wes Venezuela, which are more more
<v Speaker 3>gentle climates for those And to be honest, I think
<v Speaker 3>if you look hard enough, maybe around Texas, you're going
<v Speaker 3>to find a lot of population. I mean, there's all
<v Speaker 3>kinds of discovery while discoveries in terms of species being
<v Speaker 3>found where they're not supposed to be, and I'm sure
<v Speaker 3>you can get a couple of surprises still in Texas.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you guys have done a lot of working
<v Speaker 3>documented plant species in southern US, but there's a lot
<v Speaker 3>of things to get to be discovered. I can tell
<v Speaker 3>you that.
<v Speaker 1>The only bummer is that, you know, all of Texas
<v Speaker 1>is basically private land, which that brings up something else
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to you about. Was you know,
<v Speaker 1>max CA has a lot of public land, and that's
<v Speaker 1>mostly due to the Hero system, correct, which was established
<v Speaker 1>after the revolution.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, well it's not like it's not public land,
<v Speaker 3>but it's kind of a different land the ownership. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>Hilo is still private land, but it's owned by a
<v Speaker 3>local community. I mean many people can be owners of
<v Speaker 3>the same land, which gives all kind of troubles and headaches,
<v Speaker 3>but it's still a good way to work in terms
<v Speaker 3>of land management. The downside, the really sad part of
<v Speaker 3>that is that many people, especially in big cities, they
<v Speaker 3>do not recognize that kind of ownership and hiltarios, I
<v Speaker 3>mean that's what we call the owners of the Hero land.
<v Speaker 3>They often get like and all the world like downgraded,
<v Speaker 3>like like they are the spies, and they told that
<v Speaker 3>there's no way that you can own this beautiful mountain,
<v Speaker 3>and then people tell them this mountain belongs to everybody,
<v Speaker 3>which actually it's privately owned by a community. It's kind
<v Speaker 3>of a different way that the people in the city
<v Speaker 3>see this kind of land. And of course the heroes
<v Speaker 3>hold a huge amount of species, not just plants, animals, everything.
<v Speaker 3>But sometimes the heroes they don't realize what they actually
<v Speaker 3>are owning or guarding. It's it's a working process around here.
<v Speaker 1>But I mean it does offer some protection at least
<v Speaker 1>in terms of development, right Like, it's not public, but
<v Speaker 1>it's still somewhat protected. It's not just owned by an
<v Speaker 1>individual who can sell it off.
<v Speaker 3>And yes, exactly exactly, and.
<v Speaker 1>You can still get onto in most cases, like I
<v Speaker 1>guess you can theory be kicked off, but it doesn't
<v Speaker 1>really happen that much, right Like, no one really cares
<v Speaker 1>because you're not stealing anything or illegally hunting exactly.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, mostly heroes are like friendly people. I mean
<v Speaker 3>they actually welcome outsiders. I mean, if you ask, hey,
<v Speaker 3>I want to see and climb up this trail, they
<v Speaker 3>probably could even offer you a guide if you if
<v Speaker 3>you pay a fellow over there, they can easily take
<v Speaker 3>you wherever you want to go, and you can ask
<v Speaker 3>a lot of questions. So Helos, especially especially we were
<v Speaker 3>recently visiting and working in Laura in Japas, and there's
<v Speaker 3>a lot of heroes there that actually are starting to
<v Speaker 3>make a living out of offering nature guided tours. And
<v Speaker 3>we have this fellow, uh just this week, one fellow
<v Speaker 3>from New York who works with ferns just make a
<v Speaker 3>busy to Laura and he was like blown away by
<v Speaker 3>the fair and diversity in Chiapas. So it's not like
<v Speaker 3>it's a bad type of land ownership, but this has
<v Speaker 3>like not properly harnessed or I don't know its properly managed.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's a lot of misinformation and people all
<v Speaker 3>often take advantage of AHLs, but we can change that.
<v Speaker 3>They're probably getting a better way of living. I don't
<v Speaker 3>know if that makes sense, but.
<v Speaker 1>No, I mean it's better than with Texas heads where
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, it's like it's just it always
<v Speaker 1>blows my mind whenever I go to Mexico, I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>what the fuck The land is in such better shape,
<v Speaker 1>Like there might be more like litter, Like there's more
<v Speaker 1>like litter on the street and garbage like that, but
<v Speaker 1>they're none of the big garbage, which many Americans wouldn't
<v Speaker 1>consider garbage. It's a way of life for them, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like the shopping plazas and the car dealerships and and
<v Speaker 1>all that bullshit, the endless billboards and just this like
<v Speaker 1>cons farm, it's not there and it can't be developed
<v Speaker 1>that easily, you know, it's and so the land is
<v Speaker 1>able to stay in a state. Like I can go
<v Speaker 1>to Mexico just south of the border. You get out
<v Speaker 1>of Rhinosa at ten minutes. It's also hot cartel territory,
<v Speaker 1>but it's okay, we'll talk talk about that. But you
<v Speaker 1>can see these rolling green hills and you're like, this
<v Speaker 1>is what South Texas what looked like, you know, one
<v Speaker 1>hundred years ago or maybe a little bit before that.
<v Speaker 2>You know, yeah, I get it then.
<v Speaker 3>And you know how strange sound to me that you
<v Speaker 3>from the United States are telling me that you see
<v Speaker 3>in a better shape our place. I mean, it's kind
<v Speaker 3>of strange because you always see the greener grass on
<v Speaker 3>the other side, right, It's it's kind of you guys
<v Speaker 3>are doing so much better over there. And then you
<v Speaker 3>told me you guys are doing so much better over there.
<v Speaker 3>So I guess we're in the middle ground there, and yes,
<v Speaker 3>we do have I always stay people. I mean Monterey
<v Speaker 3>is a city with almost seven million people, and we
<v Speaker 3>still have Black Bear, we have Jawer, we have Beber's,
<v Speaker 3>we have Golden Eagle, we have all these amazing ecosystems
<v Speaker 3>and there are seven million people living in the city
<v Speaker 3>doing their business. We do have the same consumer stuff
<v Speaker 3>that you got there, but we somehow have still managed
<v Speaker 3>to preserve our ecosystems in many places, So I guess
<v Speaker 3>that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think the US just really went nuts with
<v Speaker 1>the development, and it's yeah, it's a bum it's a
<v Speaker 1>bummer to see. I mean, just so much has been lost.
<v Speaker 1>And I mean since I've lived in South Texas, I've
<v Speaker 1>seen so much get lost, you know, and like the
<v Speaker 1>five years I've been here, like just so much bulldozing.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, it's great.
<v Speaker 1>I mean Mexico is always generally in better shape unless
<v Speaker 1>you go to like Arizona or parts of California, like
<v Speaker 1>the western United States, where there's more public land. You know,
<v Speaker 1>you can still see land that's free of development or
<v Speaker 1>not as developed. But but yeah, man, it's I don't know,
<v Speaker 1>it's yeah, it's going even just a two hour drive
<v Speaker 1>south and wave of Leone's a breath of fresh air
<v Speaker 1>for for me. So, but so what happened with the
<v Speaker 1>West take it? There was this flood. It took everything
<v Speaker 1>out and there it's limited access, which is nice, I'm sure,
<v Speaker 1>but can you still get in there? Like you can't
<v Speaker 1>get to that gave Albo Pelosi spot or any of
<v Speaker 1>these other kind of more in the cut locales or what.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I'm sorry the Pilosa When you try to
<v Speaker 3>go into that location, you need to drive like a
<v Speaker 3>few kilometers at least ten twenty kilometers inside the Seattle Madre.
<v Speaker 3>And this is tropical storm Alverto just made it now
<v Speaker 3>impossible to drive. So unless you want to walk, like
<v Speaker 3>maybe for half a day or even more, there's no
<v Speaker 3>way that you can go to Pilots right now. I'm
<v Speaker 3>not sure. But you may get the chance to go
<v Speaker 3>all the way around from Saltillo and maybe get into
<v Speaker 3>the locality, but that's again a long detour to get there.
<v Speaker 2>So but you can hoof it, like if you hike in.
<v Speaker 1>It's still a few it's I mean, it's that's gonna
<v Speaker 1>be like a day or two in and out.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's gonna take It's gonna take you a long
<v Speaker 3>way to get there. I think it's fine. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you're you're giving just a small break to those eco
<v Speaker 3>systems because people in because people in Montal I really
<v Speaker 3>like going those places, and yes, just give them a
<v Speaker 3>break and then wait until we get yeah road.
<v Speaker 2>That's good.
<v Speaker 1>It was getting poached too. It was heavily poached, all
<v Speaker 1>the ones that like we're within reach, we're gone, you know, climb,
<v Speaker 1>shimmey up these rocks. But it was But if you
<v Speaker 1>do decide the hike in, it's going to be a
<v Speaker 1>beautiful hike. I'll tell you what, you know, just just
<v Speaker 1>packing off water.
<v Speaker 2>Uh but yeah, so what so what this?
<v Speaker 1>I saw a video of this, this flood though, like
<v Speaker 1>destroying like destroying the bridge. It was a really it
<v Speaker 1>was a wonderful event because you guys.
<v Speaker 3>Were To be honest, I was glad to see those
<v Speaker 3>effects on the infrastructure that they put in there, because
<v Speaker 3>it was wrong. I mean, they wanted to pave all
<v Speaker 3>the way in. I mean, if it's fine if you
<v Speaker 3>get like a their drowth, but they're they're paving, putting
<v Speaker 3>even more stuff inside the canyons. There's not the place
<v Speaker 3>to have that kind of infrastructure. So I was kind
<v Speaker 3>of glad to be honest.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just gonna it just would have
<v Speaker 1>gotten ran through. So okay, But so this is the
<v Speaker 1>Rio Santa Catarina goes through Monterey and what Yeah that
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about that too, because I know
<v Speaker 1>that's like for like the potential that has for habitat
<v Speaker 1>restoration and for being kind of like a native plant
<v Speaker 1>park inside the city. A lot of people have talked
<v Speaker 1>about there's an organization which you'll have to remind me
<v Speaker 1>the name, that's doing work on that river. It's I mean,
<v Speaker 1>it's a beautiful river. It's got a lot of potential.
<v Speaker 1>What's up with What's up with that?
<v Speaker 2>Right now?
<v Speaker 3>Well, now that we're talking about is actually the outlet
<v Speaker 3>of all the drainage inside the Sierra Madre. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>if you get rain in the Sierra Madre, one of
<v Speaker 3>the few places that can come out. I mean all
<v Speaker 3>that water is La was Teka Canyon and was Teka
<v Speaker 3>Canyon is the birthplace of Rio Santa Katarina. Katarina River,
<v Speaker 3>which is the biggest river that crosses the city. We
<v Speaker 3>have a smaller one which is Rial l a Cia,
<v Speaker 3>but Ta Katarina man we have a history with Reason
<v Speaker 3>de Katarina because as I was growing up, like four
<v Speaker 3>years ago, we have football courses, we have Olympic swimming
<v Speaker 3>pools in there. I'm talking about the river bed inside
<v Speaker 3>the river, and of course there was a lot of
<v Speaker 3>water extraction for making soft drinks and beer around here,
<v Speaker 3>so we pulled all of the water and the river
<v Speaker 3>bed was kind of dry, and that gave the impression
<v Speaker 3>that the river was dead. There was no living rivers
<v Speaker 3>in there. So we have a couple of hurricanes that
<v Speaker 3>just blew off everything. But at what point we even
<v Speaker 3>have golf courses in there. Imagine a golf course in
<v Speaker 3>a river.
<v Speaker 2>Bed, a big river inane.
<v Speaker 3>But then it was insane and you can google it.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm not lying. If you go to Google
<v Speaker 3>and search for golf course reals and the Catarina, you're
<v Speaker 3>going to see a lot of images. But again, nature,
<v Speaker 3>as wise as it can be, made the job and
<v Speaker 3>send a couple of hurricanes, so it just just just
<v Speaker 3>destroy everything, which I'm glad.
<v Speaker 1>The good thing is that correctly because they corrected for humans.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, but humans at that point, I mean,
<v Speaker 3>and I had to say that I recognized one of
<v Speaker 3>the authorities, Federal authorities that actually allowed previous interventions in
<v Speaker 3>there said enough, no more gold courses, no gold cards,
<v Speaker 3>no nothing in the river. So actually the government left
<v Speaker 3>that alone and give it a big break. That was
<v Speaker 3>twenty ten. And after that, well, nature just do the thing.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, Salix was the English name for Salix.
<v Speaker 2>Willow willow. You what is in Spanish sause sause salix?
<v Speaker 2>You see the commons.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so Populo Salas they started to grow back down
<v Speaker 3>the river and they started to repopulate the whole river
<v Speaker 3>bed all the way to the city. And you can
<v Speaker 3>now see a lot of grown up trees. And believe
<v Speaker 3>it or not, we even have American beaver feeding on
<v Speaker 3>those willows.
<v Speaker 1>Now, no shit beavers in the city.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, we haven't not yet documented alive, but we
<v Speaker 3>have seen the you know, they bite the trunks and
<v Speaker 3>they remove the bar very distinct.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we have that kind of sign within the city
<v Speaker 3>and also in real sea. Yeah, so popular of American
<v Speaker 3>beaver are coming back from down the river. Imagine that
<v Speaker 3>in the city of seven million people.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's crazy, that's that's so nice. That's like what's
<v Speaker 1>happening to Chicago. You know, the chicag Yago River used
<v Speaker 1>to be fucking nasty, and now now there's I mean
<v Speaker 1>there's yeah, there's beavers on it, there's coyotes, there's giants
<v Speaker 1>snapping turtles. There's a bunch of native plant people have
<v Speaker 1>done native plant installations. It's really cool. I didn't know
<v Speaker 1>that about Monterey. That's that's dope. That's really nice to hear.
<v Speaker 3>Man.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm speaking which I'm looking.
<v Speaker 1>At a picture of the golf course from before Hurricane Alex.
<v Speaker 1>It's just fucking obscene. It's like it shouldn't be green
<v Speaker 1>either too. It's it's all green and water. It's absurd.
<v Speaker 3>Man. Now you can look also for golf cars courses
<v Speaker 3>and you will find one in there. I mean previously hurricanes.
<v Speaker 3>I mean there's some kind of nasty stuff that they
<v Speaker 3>put into the riverbed. M yeah, man, was it was seriable? Okay?
<v Speaker 3>So now now, I mean at some point we have
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of I naturalist records from that place. And
<v Speaker 3>guess what our current government governor, the state governor from
<v Speaker 3>wel Garcia. Uh, he even made a couple of stupid proposals.
<v Speaker 3>One of them was to actually build a highway again
<v Speaker 3>on the riverbed, so that spark fucked. So that's that's yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to say that, but yeah, it's so
<v Speaker 3>messed up in many levels, in many ways. But that
<v Speaker 3>you know, that sparked rage. I mean, people were like
<v Speaker 3>outrage because the governor wanted to put a highway in
<v Speaker 3>the middle of the river and he was telling everybody like, oh, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>we're going to solve the traffic problem just adding more
<v Speaker 3>highways and it's gonna avoid pollution. So everybody got together
<v Speaker 3>and then it sparked this amazing movement on Rio and Rio,
<v Speaker 3>which is a river within a river that that bring
<v Speaker 3>people together to actually fight back on that type of projects.
<v Speaker 3>And actually I got to say that we want I mean,
<v Speaker 3>and I'm talking as a community because we use every
<v Speaker 3>single legal resource that we had to provide the necessary
<v Speaker 3>arguments to the stupid governor that you are so wrong
<v Speaker 3>about this. So the federal tories actually had to deny
<v Speaker 3>the pyramids that they were asking for to start working
<v Speaker 3>on that. It's been it's been a battle, but community
<v Speaker 3>is growing strongest in terms of seeing what the river
<v Speaker 3>means and the river is just an ambassador. Now everybody's
<v Speaker 3>paying attention to settle Topo Chico Seach is another small
<v Speaker 3>mountain that we have here. Although the mountains around here
<v Speaker 3>sometimes they're neglected. I mean people people see them every day,
<v Speaker 3>but that don't really appreciate and in terms of the
<v Speaker 3>value that they have for all of us by diversity
<v Speaker 3>of reserves. But there is Ta Katarina has been like
<v Speaker 3>the ambassador for nature around the city, which is a
<v Speaker 3>fantastic news to be honest.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because that's I mean, that's something that should belong
<v Speaker 1>to everybody. And that's like to have a river running
<v Speaker 1>through a city. It's such a I mean, that's like
<v Speaker 1>an in a healthy river for it to be one
<v Speaker 1>that people can hang out.
<v Speaker 2>On and spend time on.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that has you know, where people can glimpse
<v Speaker 1>like a shred of the native flora of what it
<v Speaker 1>you know, what it looked like, you know, five hundred
<v Speaker 1>years ago. There's such a precious thing to have.
<v Speaker 3>And Rios and Takatarina is just one of them. We
<v Speaker 3>have real Lacilla RelA Cia is a smaller river that
<v Speaker 3>goes around Cerro Elasia, hence the name. But that river
<v Speaker 3>is much much pristine than Ta Katarina. You have like
<v Speaker 3>these amazing Sabinos ball cypress. Mm hm, so you have
<v Speaker 3>like the pristine Riparian forrest that they're supposed to have.
<v Speaker 3>Recentkarina is working on getting back on that. But real aah,
<v Speaker 3>you can actually see those kind of Riparian forests and
<v Speaker 3>you can actually see American beaver more often there. There's
<v Speaker 3>a healthy couple of individuals living in there yet, and
<v Speaker 3>this is the kind of stuff that people are starting
<v Speaker 3>to appreciate a little bit more. But okay, I'm fifty
<v Speaker 3>years old. When I was a student back in ninety three,
<v Speaker 3>nobody cared, I mean, nobody was actually trying to understand
<v Speaker 3>to preserve, to care for those natural ecosystems. And now
<v Speaker 3>I'm glad to say that people is caring a little
<v Speaker 3>bit more. And we, and I gotta say, all of
<v Speaker 3>us nature lovers, environmentalistal professionals have done a lot of
<v Speaker 3>work and I think it's working. I think it's doing
<v Speaker 3>some some good on education side, you know what I mean.
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, people people catch on and realize, you know, how
<v Speaker 1>important it is. And also just like when their eyes
<v Speaker 1>open to the native plants into the just the ecosystem
<v Speaker 1>that they live in, you know, that's it's like a
<v Speaker 1>pivotal moment for a lot of people. It's like this
<v Speaker 1>world you didn't know was there before and didn't pay
<v Speaker 1>attention to and just kind of overlooked, and now suddenly
<v Speaker 1>it's so exciting and it's everywhere. What what's the There's
<v Speaker 1>a there was an Instagram page I saw dedicated for
<v Speaker 1>what is what's the name of it? There's an Instagram
<v Speaker 1>page that's working with either restoring the river or spreading
<v Speaker 1>what is.
<v Speaker 3>That on Rio and in Rio real?
<v Speaker 2>Okay, oh yeah, I see it right here.
<v Speaker 3>It's real and Rio those are And to be honest,
<v Speaker 3>right now that the group of people, it's it's expanding
<v Speaker 3>a little bit more is going just not about nature,
<v Speaker 3>but also trying to pull social issue use, like trying
<v Speaker 3>to embrace like a more social approach, not just talking
<v Speaker 3>about nature and biodiversity. It's trying to get more involved
<v Speaker 3>in social issues that well, there's a lot of messed
<v Speaker 3>up things around here, but nature is kind of a
<v Speaker 3>good banner to address like poverty and other like people
<v Speaker 3>have with more like economic disadvantages stuff like that. So
<v Speaker 3>it's it's working, and I'm glad to say that this
<v Speaker 3>is a very nice success case of people getting involved
<v Speaker 3>and providing like time on their own, not pay time,
<v Speaker 3>I mean, just being there for others. It's it never
<v Speaker 3>happened before around here in the city of Monterrey.
<v Speaker 2>Do you do you so?
<v Speaker 1>Do you think like at least where you are in Moterrey,
<v Speaker 1>is there more of a like is awareness about native plants.
<v Speaker 1>It's interest spreading so that it's I mean beyond just academia,
<v Speaker 1>where there's more people just getting interested in this stuff
<v Speaker 1>and understanding it and seeing how rewarding it is to learn.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I mean, the one thing that I can really
<v Speaker 3>tell you because I have witnesses is again, maybe before
<v Speaker 3>like thirty years ago, people had no idea of what
<v Speaker 3>kind of trees to put in their gardens. Everything was
<v Speaker 3>like ficus, you know, this tropical species. Everybody wanted a
<v Speaker 3>ficus because they grew so big. And then we have
<v Speaker 3>a couple of amazing winter storm that throws everything around here,
<v Speaker 3>and suddenly the city went out of any trees. And
<v Speaker 3>by that time I'm talking about the nineties, people started
<v Speaker 3>to look at oaks. So we have an amazing oak
<v Speaker 3>biouniversity here, but we didn't actually realize how oaks were
<v Speaker 3>going to bring an open with the door to people
<v Speaker 3>paying attention to local species, I mean mesquites, and we
<v Speaker 3>such as nobody wanted them because they were indoctrinated to
<v Speaker 3>think about those as ugly plants. Because everybody wanted, okay
<v Speaker 3>to have like European stuff style gardens, and nobody wanted thorns,
<v Speaker 3>and nobody wanted a local species. But today today we
<v Speaker 3>kind of embraced that, and there's a lot of people
<v Speaker 3>actually asking about native plants and not just trees. Then
<v Speaker 3>we made another turning point because everybody just wanted trees,
<v Speaker 3>nobody was thinking about other layers like shrubs and herbs.
<v Speaker 3>So right now it's it's far more better in terms
<v Speaker 3>of people actually appreciating different layers in in your gardens,
<v Speaker 3>not just big trees, but smaller trees like shrubs, like
<v Speaker 3>pollinator gardiens. Pollinator gardens has been a great success because
<v Speaker 3>everybody wanted them. They don't fully understand the importance, but
<v Speaker 3>they wanted it. So I have this witness this. It's
<v Speaker 3>kind of rewarding to see that community is evolving and
<v Speaker 3>it's spreading, not just in terms of plants. You can
<v Speaker 3>even see it on social media on Facebook and stuff
<v Speaker 3>like that. When hiker groups they used to post I
<v Speaker 3>kill this nag, I say, everybody, and now they post
<v Speaker 3>beware of this nag. Just pay attention, don't kill it.
<v Speaker 3>So the narrative within the community is changing and it's happening.
<v Speaker 3>So for that, I'm grateful. I can tell that there's
<v Speaker 3>been a change. Yeah, to be honest, that's good.
<v Speaker 1>I remember when I first met you in twenty nineteen
<v Speaker 1>and you were telling me. You were saying, You're like, wow,
<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's so cool to see people that are
<v Speaker 1>excited about plants that aren't, like, you know, in school
<v Speaker 1>for it, you know, and I was I asked it.
<v Speaker 1>I was like why, and you're like, oh, because a
<v Speaker 1>lot of people here just don't care. They don't give
<v Speaker 1>a shit, like most most people just don't which was
<v Speaker 1>crazy to me because I mean you think of Mexico
<v Speaker 1>and you think of all the wild shit. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>you guys just have cooler plants than us than the
<v Speaker 1>United States. I shouldn't say US and whatever, I don't
<v Speaker 1>fucking identify as it whatever, you know what I mean,
<v Speaker 1>But but you guys just have cooler plants. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>there's there's you know, your lower latitude, so it's closer
<v Speaker 1>to the tropics, and it's already that that alone increases
<v Speaker 1>the diversity and then the total I mean just amazing
<v Speaker 1>variation and elevation that you have creates. I mean, the
<v Speaker 1>diversity is just phenomenal.
<v Speaker 2>Man, it's nuts. And just to hear that.
<v Speaker 1>But then when I go down when I go down there,
<v Speaker 1>I still you know, you go to the sokolos and
<v Speaker 1>you see those abolina plants as I call them, or
<v Speaker 1>horticultural atrocities like the ficus and the you know, the
<v Speaker 1>fucking only ender and all this European bullshit, you know,
<v Speaker 1>which is I'm sure it's important where it's native, but
<v Speaker 1>that's this stuff isn't even native anywhere because it's it's
<v Speaker 1>been in cultivation so long, it's been bred for you know,
<v Speaker 1>the cultivars basically, So what do you where do where
<v Speaker 1>do you think that comes? Because I kind of the
<v Speaker 1>same thing here in the borderlands that most people don't.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's changing now, but most people they don't
<v Speaker 1>want the Mesquites, they don't want the huisaces. They want
<v Speaker 1>you know, this this Tuscan Tuscany garden stuff. It's like
<v Speaker 1>Spanish colonial ship. What is the cost? And it's just
<v Speaker 1>that indoctrination. Where's it come from?
<v Speaker 3>I mean again, we were a Spanish protectorate colony and
<v Speaker 3>we have a lot of influence. We didn't care enough,
<v Speaker 3>especially in the north. We didn't care enough for or
<v Speaker 3>wrong roots. I mean the northern Mexico arias I mean,
<v Speaker 3>was just overwhelmed by Spanish and we didn't have like
<v Speaker 3>any indigenous community left, which didn't happen in central or
<v Speaker 3>southern Mexico. So we just copied what we have in
<v Speaker 3>the United States at first. And then when we have
<v Speaker 3>seen in European gardens and everything was roses and everything
<v Speaker 3>was like bugambillia, we didn't know there was nobody to
<v Speaker 3>actually teach us about that. It wasn't like something that
<v Speaker 3>that we can learn from someone. It wasn't until rescing
<v Speaker 3>times like twenty years ago that we started to actually
<v Speaker 3>pay attention to or local shows like Anakaita Siso. We're
<v Speaker 3>still not enough brave enough to get to Chaparo Prieto
<v Speaker 3>like Malila. My favorite, which actually could be when when
<v Speaker 3>people realized that you can put that as a fance
<v Speaker 3>and you don't have to spend like a couple of
<v Speaker 3>thousand pestels in building a wall. You can use a
<v Speaker 3>thorn trot to keep your your property.
<v Speaker 1>Say they smell so good, man, They smell blackbrost smells
<v Speaker 1>so good when it flowers, though it's intoxicating, man.
<v Speaker 2>Just like.
<v Speaker 3>I'm so fortunate that just here in my part, I'm
<v Speaker 3>in the local park that we have we have Evan
<v Speaker 3>knows we have we such as we have mesquites, and
<v Speaker 3>people actually find them appropriate. I mean they never complain
<v Speaker 3>because when they flower, you have all these nice smell
<v Speaker 3>in the air for a couple of weeks. So but
<v Speaker 3>that's that's this low change. And I think we have failed.
<v Speaker 3>Maybe biologies or other nature professionals we help failing actually
<v Speaker 3>facilitate the way people see plants. I mean people are
<v Speaker 3>just waiting for us to tell them why is this
<v Speaker 3>planned interest thing? Why should I care about this plant?
<v Speaker 3>I mean many people will actually want to see what's
<v Speaker 3>the benefit of it. So we have failed in terms
<v Speaker 3>of how can we show people that the plane itself
<v Speaker 3>is interesting? I mean, it's it's kind of the things
<v Speaker 3>that we should be working now. And there's a lot
<v Speaker 3>of people young people hopefully and thankfully like and other
<v Speaker 3>Mansa Linas, and there's a lot of people John botany
<v Speaker 3>is that actually care for this and they are. Let
<v Speaker 3>me make an announcement, there's there's actually this next week
<v Speaker 3>they're organizing a Botany Week and they're going to have
<v Speaker 3>like a lot of things related to botany, like talks, workshops, field.
<v Speaker 2>That's at the university, right, so.
<v Speaker 3>It's it's kind of a university thing, but it's done
<v Speaker 3>more independently by Jung students. So that's encouraging.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wonder, I wonder.
<v Speaker 1>I saw Mana Selina's I know, I saw she's doing
<v Speaker 1>a talk on Mega Mexico.
<v Speaker 3>That Yes, yes, that's one of them. That's one of them.
<v Speaker 2>I could go to that.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I gotta I'm going to be in North Carolina
<v Speaker 1>for this. I gotta go to this Karnacan. It's like
<v Speaker 1>the Carnivorous Plant Conferences. Should be should be an experience.
<v Speaker 1>But uh but yeah, I mean it's it's gonna be cool,
<v Speaker 1>but I'd rather be going to Monta Rays and it's
<v Speaker 1>less flying for me.
<v Speaker 3>Now that you will get you a change. But again,
<v Speaker 3>I mean it's the kind of stuff that we didn't
<v Speaker 3>have five years ago. I mean, if if we have
<v Speaker 3>that like Botany Week, it will be only for academic community.
<v Speaker 3>It was like not an open event for the whole city.
<v Speaker 3>And now at least we have this this alternative. Now
<v Speaker 3>junk people are organizing community events. So that's another good
<v Speaker 3>step forward changing the way that we saw or native
<v Speaker 3>plants and bi university in general.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I remember something before, because you've got your book
<v Speaker 1>on the floora of Nuevo Leone on the plants of
<v Speaker 1>Neueva lon it's like a guide, it's a gia. But
<v Speaker 1>there were some I remember, you know, back in the
<v Speaker 1>like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, when I was going to Mexico.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I go to Mexico a lot anyway, but
<v Speaker 1>when I was first starting to go to Mexico, I
<v Speaker 1>remember I'd be looking for books on plants, and it
<v Speaker 1>was always plant that's medicinallys It was always medicinal plants,
<v Speaker 1>Like nay, what's it good for? That kind of stuff,
<v Speaker 1>which I mean here in the States, when people ask
<v Speaker 1>me like is it medicinal ornything, I always get annoyed.
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, that's I mean, it's not anymore. But I
<v Speaker 2>used to.
<v Speaker 1>It used to be like that's not the point, man,
<v Speaker 1>It's it's a living, it's a piece of a living machine.
<v Speaker 1>It's fucking incredible for other reasons, you know, But but
<v Speaker 1>I see it now a lot more. I mean even
<v Speaker 1>just on social media. Yeah, just just random people like
<v Speaker 1>me just being like, eh, I'm not in academia, but
<v Speaker 1>I want to learn about the plants around me.
<v Speaker 3>You know.
<v Speaker 1>I saw there having like a native cactus thing in
<v Speaker 1>Layon in Guanajuata, my friend Gabrielle and I think the
<v Speaker 1>dude that does Chihawa cactus Instagram page and some other people.
<v Speaker 1>I forget, I'm gonna it's in Layon. I know that,
<v Speaker 1>and it's like the next week or two. But I mean,
<v Speaker 1>that's fucking that's awesome. It's it's you know, it's not academic.
<v Speaker 1>It's the academics are cool. It's important, the academic element,
<v Speaker 1>but just you mean, yeah, you just need more random
<v Speaker 1>We all need more random people into this, you know,
<v Speaker 1>using a nationalist et cetera.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then let me just try to to share
<v Speaker 3>our thoughts here about about why for us is important
<v Speaker 3>to care about traditional uses because it's it's going extinct.
<v Speaker 3>I mean that knowledge, it's it's it is getting lost.
<v Speaker 3>Now you can ask people what what's the use for dioica,
<v Speaker 3>and nobody knows about the properties of that. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you ask about how to cook juca flowers and nobody
<v Speaker 3>knows the recipe to cook yuga flowers. So for us
<v Speaker 3>in this kind of traditional knowledge that only maybe or
<v Speaker 3>will eat us, or teas or granny's or aunties just
<v Speaker 3>used to know. Now it's vanishing. And that's something that
<v Speaker 3>especially hearing the Nord, that we didn't have like this,
<v Speaker 3>these cultural traditions that they're they're more and more rooted
<v Speaker 3>in central and southern Mexico. We try to actually say
<v Speaker 3>that kind of knowledge, it's because that's an entry port
<v Speaker 3>for people to care about. Yeah, later on we can
<v Speaker 3>tell them, I mean, this planet doesn't do anything, it's
<v Speaker 3>just there. But look how beautiful it is. But they
<v Speaker 3>are asking about plants now, Okay, when they got we
<v Speaker 3>sparked the interest in Okay, this is this is for cooking.
<v Speaker 3>You can make a soup out of this, and you
<v Speaker 3>can make tea out of that. We have a lot
<v Speaker 3>of those stuffs, but people doesn't know it. So when
<v Speaker 3>they started to get interest, then we can talk about
<v Speaker 3>other stuff like, hey, this is an nandemic species. Hey,
<v Speaker 3>this is the only place you can see a maple
<v Speaker 3>in the state, and the other maple populations are up
<v Speaker 3>in Texas or down to right. So it's kind of
<v Speaker 3>trying to balance things in terms of Okay, let's let's
<v Speaker 3>not just get rid of the traditional knowledge and and
<v Speaker 3>tell people about that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, about that. You're right, You're right.
<v Speaker 1>I mean all that the ethnal Bandi slant is. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>it's it's important as hell, and yeah, it sucks that
<v Speaker 1>it's being lost. And I didn't mean yeah, I'm not
<v Speaker 1>trying to like diminish it for me, it's just when
<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to get people into it, at least, you know,
<v Speaker 1>here in the States, it was always like, oh is
<v Speaker 1>it They'd always be like, is it edible? And I'm like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know which I think it is.
<v Speaker 1>Like now I'm interested in in that that part of
<v Speaker 1>it too, But just back in you know, back when
<v Speaker 1>I was first learning about this, to me, it was
<v Speaker 1>just uninteresting because I've just had this other way of looking.
<v Speaker 1>But no, you're absolutely right. I mean all that stuff
<v Speaker 1>is so important and there's there's knowledge that was gained
<v Speaker 1>over thousands of years that yeah, it's being neglected and ignored,
<v Speaker 1>you know, just like plants themselves.
<v Speaker 3>But I get you. I get you because you have
<v Speaker 3>you have a particular set of eyes. I mean, you're you,
<v Speaker 3>you're wondering. I mean, you get this amazing feeling with
<v Speaker 3>you learn about the geology, when you you relate plants
<v Speaker 3>to the soil, when you remain plants to the climate,
<v Speaker 3>you when you when you find like evolution convergencies or
<v Speaker 3>stuff like that a bit. But that's a particular set
<v Speaker 3>of eyes, and there's a lot of people who doesn't understand,
<v Speaker 3>or even even me, I find it hard to actually
<v Speaker 3>tell that part of the story. I mean, for me,
<v Speaker 3>I get the entry point with maybe Edna Botany, but
<v Speaker 3>I need to learn how to do it in a
<v Speaker 3>different way. Otherwise we're gonna stuck in the same place.
<v Speaker 3>So having this kind of diversity in how each of
<v Speaker 3>us discovers plants, it's is the kind of things that
<v Speaker 3>we need to put together. I mean, how how do
<v Speaker 3>you get to a little children about native plants? How
<v Speaker 3>do I get to my abilita? How do I get
<v Speaker 3>to this.
<v Speaker 2>Hard? They can't be hard, you.
<v Speaker 3>Know, Yeah, But again, I mean we need to find
<v Speaker 3>different entry points for people to get into plants.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, if you could get an appolita into appreciating
<v Speaker 1>Chaporo Prieto, you know, that's like you. You've accomplished the feat,
<v Speaker 1>you know, but you could do this. Smell incredible. I
<v Speaker 1>bet you could do it. I bet it's possible, you know.
<v Speaker 3>But I think right now we are training the future
<v Speaker 3>Agilitas into liking Chaparo Prieto and liking like we such as.
<v Speaker 3>So the younger woman around us, they're gonna be like
<v Speaker 3>in the near future, the next following years, they're gonna
<v Speaker 3>like them. Yeah. So we're training the next generation of alas.
<v Speaker 3>And by training, I mean we're showing them the beauty
<v Speaker 3>of Ausace, of a Mesquite, of a Chaparo Prieto, and
<v Speaker 3>every single forny plan that we have. I mean they
<v Speaker 3>now will learn to love. So when they grow old
<v Speaker 3>and when they have grandchildren, they will probably be more
<v Speaker 3>related to those forni plants that right now it's hard
<v Speaker 3>to love, and so we need to think about that
<v Speaker 3>a little bit more.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I love the spiny plants, man. I don't know why
<v Speaker 1>I think. I just I think because I can relate
<v Speaker 1>to them. I'm like spiny on the outside and soft
<v Speaker 1>on the inside.
<v Speaker 3>But I get it.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's it's it is a peculiar thing. I
<v Speaker 1>mean you had mentioned, you mentioned that in the south,
<v Speaker 1>like in Wahaka and Puebla, there's this is not as
<v Speaker 1>much of a or it's less of a problem than
<v Speaker 1>it is in the north. Is that you just I mean,
<v Speaker 1>as that just a result of Spanish colonialism or because
<v Speaker 1>you know, the indigenous tribes at a harder time in
<v Speaker 1>the normal, what do you think is the cause of it?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because we lost every single native culture around here.
<v Speaker 3>I mean they were just eradicated. I mean there was
<v Speaker 3>no room leftlo for them here in I'm talking about
<v Speaker 3>La I'm talking about Lipas. But as you moved south,
<v Speaker 3>like getting into central Mexico all the way to the
<v Speaker 3>Peninsula Jucatan, there's still a lot of indigenous communities, I
<v Speaker 3>mean original people from the time of when before the
<v Speaker 3>Spanish came here. So many of those communities, pretty much
<v Speaker 3>all of them there still follow a lot of traditional
<v Speaker 3>ways to see their native their native plants. I mean
<v Speaker 3>they respect them, they use them, they get advantage of them.
<v Speaker 3>They haven't in their gardens, and you don't need to
<v Speaker 3>tell them about the importance I mean they already know,
<v Speaker 3>especially in south southern Mexico, when when the indigenous communities
<v Speaker 3>did manage to survive the colonial era here in Mexico,
<v Speaker 3>but around here we had to start from from scratch.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there was no one around to teach us
<v Speaker 3>about that. Yeah, sad story.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, I mean you preserve the people, you preserve
<v Speaker 1>the culture around the plants that they revered, and it
<v Speaker 1>is I mean, I think when you think about it,
<v Speaker 1>you know, yeah, like you go to Wahaka, there's a
<v Speaker 1>lot more that there's fucking amazing art with native plants
<v Speaker 1>in it. There's a a lot of a gavet art,
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of packet serious marginatum marginata's art. There's more,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, just more more cultural reverence for plants in general.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, not so much in the north.
<v Speaker 2>I've noticed.
<v Speaker 3>It's there's nothing. I mean, the only that you can
<v Speaker 3>find is written history. I mean I have read a
<v Speaker 3>couple of historical records from the Spanish conquerors, and they
<v Speaker 3>relate how they used to turn letugillas into dust, and
<v Speaker 3>then they ate that dust from Lechugia. There's a couple
<v Speaker 3>of really strange tales from how the local communities actually
<v Speaker 3>ate pretty much everything here now. Things that you wouldn't
<v Speaker 3>considered edible, like Lechugia, they used to be edible. I
<v Speaker 3>mean they made it somehow edible, and we lost that.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I wouldn't try to eat a let you
<v Speaker 3>gia powder or something like that. It's because we have
<v Speaker 3>nothing to start from around here.
<v Speaker 1>Oh then, man, that's wild. I didn't know that. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize it was so much more extensive in
<v Speaker 1>the North. The destruction of those cultures. That's terrible.
<v Speaker 2>Fuck. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm going to try to find a couple of
<v Speaker 3>those texts and then send it back to you. It's
<v Speaker 3>in Spanish, but you can try that I can find.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I give my Spanish is improving a lot anyways,
<v Speaker 1>So that's actually a lot of it due to reading. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>Adrian and a couple other people got me a book
<v Speaker 1>on rock art of Nuevo Leone and it's in English
<v Speaker 1>and Spanish, which is really helpful. I like those side
<v Speaker 1>by side language books, you know, they make it a
<v Speaker 1>lot easier. Yeah, I know, but uh, but so well, okay,
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you about some of the plants though, too.
<v Speaker 1>I just saw manahat subspaccata and which is rare, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I didn't I was not expecting to come up on that.
<v Speaker 1>We just stopped at a spot on the side of
<v Speaker 1>the road that looked really interesting. How extensive is that
<v Speaker 1>in Nuevo aon that's mostly just north of this of
<v Speaker 1>montere or where is it?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's that's the kind of plant that it's pretty
<v Speaker 3>much there, but nobody looks at it. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 3>really really overlooked. Nobody. Nobody knows about the existence of
<v Speaker 3>my hots of Spekata or cantarctica. I mean, there are
<v Speaker 3>a lot of plants that people might see it, but
<v Speaker 3>they don't know what they're seeing, and nobody is looking
<v Speaker 3>for them. I mean, that's the kind of plant that
<v Speaker 3>doesn't spark like conversation of interest. I mean, I'm not
<v Speaker 3>sure actually how many records of that I can get
<v Speaker 3>on gb for right naturally is there There's just probably
<v Speaker 3>a dozen records of those plants. But it's again, there's
<v Speaker 3>so much plant diversity here that there's no way people
<v Speaker 3>can keep track of of those species. I mean, surprisingly,
<v Speaker 3>you go by state records and we have fair understanding
<v Speaker 3>of our plants, but if you go in a narrow.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you guys have counties in the United we
<v Speaker 3>have municipios, but there's a lot of gaps and information
<v Speaker 3>at that level municipio. It's kind of a black hole
<v Speaker 3>of information in many many municipios, especially when you go
<v Speaker 3>farther from the big city. So there's a lot of
<v Speaker 3>still need to be explored areas. I mean, that's kind
<v Speaker 3>of a fund that we still have. You can feel
<v Speaker 3>like early century explorer in there and try to go
<v Speaker 3>find new ways, new trails, new new mountains to climb.
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of hiking, it's done regularly around so
<v Speaker 3>we're trying to get hikers engaged in document and using
<v Speaker 3>oigh naturally stuff like that. But people, I mean the
<v Speaker 3>many hotel speak at is just one example. There's hundreds
<v Speaker 3>of species that have like one or two records in
<v Speaker 3>their bar rooms and pretty much no records on a naturalists.
<v Speaker 3>So there's there's a lot of room to go actually
<v Speaker 3>out and explore. It's the kind of blessing that we
<v Speaker 3>have here.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you've been a big proponent of I too, of
<v Speaker 1>by naturalist is it? I mean when did you start?
<v Speaker 1>When did you start doing that? And as it had
<v Speaker 1>I mean, do you see more people starting to use
<v Speaker 1>it now and actually going out like just random people
<v Speaker 1>like me, like non academics, just going out to survey
<v Speaker 1>different areas, to check for plants, to explore.
<v Speaker 3>Yes. Yes, to be honest, I feel happy about that
<v Speaker 3>because not just me, but there's a lot of a
<v Speaker 3>bunch of friends that were actually doing like big advertising
<v Speaker 3>and using it and making people see how fun it
<v Speaker 3>can be and how useful it can be, and people
<v Speaker 3>that are now taking more time to go outside and
<v Speaker 3>look at nature and using anatotis is just part of that.
<v Speaker 3>I'm glad people are actually using it and a lot
<v Speaker 3>of things are coming out of that. So it's kind
<v Speaker 3>of the new tool that we now have to be
<v Speaker 3>more busy in nature. It's surprising that people visit nature
<v Speaker 3>and just they're just go walking using air headphones to
<v Speaker 3>listen to music and just wo walk, get to a
<v Speaker 3>certain point and then take a picture and then go back.
<v Speaker 3>Now people is paying more attention to birds, those names
<v Speaker 3>to lizards, to mushrooms in wildflowers, which are amazing around here.
<v Speaker 3>So it's kind of a good thing to have these
<v Speaker 3>kind of tools. It also I'm glad to say that
<v Speaker 3>it takes away a little bit of the power of
<v Speaker 3>the academic world that they own or pretended to own
<v Speaker 3>the knowledge or the generation of knowledge. And now everybody
<v Speaker 3>can be part of that.
<v Speaker 1>So it knocks me. It crashes the gates. It knocks
<v Speaker 1>down the gates. That's what I love about Ina.
<v Speaker 3>And I love that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know it should be man.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I think what's what's really cool about it, though,
<v Speaker 1>is the it's all data collection. So you've essentially got this.
<v Speaker 1>The more people you have using ein atrist, the more
<v Speaker 1>people you have acting like an army of data collectors
<v Speaker 1>on the plant life or insect life or BirdLife of
<v Speaker 1>a region, you know, and then making a record of it.
<v Speaker 1>It's not the same as an arbarium record, but it's
<v Speaker 1>it's close, you know, and it documents.
<v Speaker 3>I need, I need. I think we need to push
<v Speaker 3>it harder, I mean farther away. And you just you
<v Speaker 3>just said it's not the same as an erbarium record.
<v Speaker 3>Why shouldn't be like the same At this point of
<v Speaker 3>history in time, we have all these amazing digital technologies
<v Speaker 3>like cell phone cameras, like higher resolution cameras, and all
<v Speaker 3>these are naturally records now allow you to see the
<v Speaker 3>true color of a living flower, or they allowed you
<v Speaker 3>to see the pollinator of an endemic species. Sometimes I
<v Speaker 3>think that's more valuable that just a dead piece of
<v Speaker 3>a plant in a drawing. Yeah, I think no one.
<v Speaker 3>No one has the choras to actually, I don't know,
<v Speaker 3>maybe a scientific paper to actually propose button is in
<v Speaker 3>the planet. Okay, you should be considering these as important
<v Speaker 3>or equally important as an varium specimen. What can happen.
<v Speaker 3>Maybe we've got a solar flare and everything just goes
<v Speaker 3>black and not digital era anymore. Okay, your variums are
<v Speaker 3>gonna stay there. But the other size, we have a
<v Speaker 3>big fire, and the Smithsonian or whatever big institution that
<v Speaker 3>holds millions of records, they're gone. I mean, yeah, it's
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of now thinking further and not just the
<v Speaker 3>way that we have been thinking in the past two
<v Speaker 3>hundred five hundred years, just collecting plants, put it in
<v Speaker 3>drawers and nobody goes to see them again in like
<v Speaker 3>hundred years. And within naturalism and these digital records, I
<v Speaker 3>mean they provide updated information with a lot of other
<v Speaker 3>information like diseases, pollinators, past legs, whatever you can find
<v Speaker 3>in these photographs and people are starting, especially researchers, are
<v Speaker 3>starting to pay more attention of those little details. So okay,
<v Speaker 3>let's think about again. It's the same, it's better, or
<v Speaker 3>it's not a new way of collecting uh, specimen vouchers.
<v Speaker 3>I know of some papers that have actually cited I
<v Speaker 3>naturally is records by the unique identifier number. It don't
<v Speaker 3>record exact name on scientific papers. So steps are being taken.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I you know, I come to think of it,
<v Speaker 1>I have I have seen some people in academia, you know,
<v Speaker 1>kind of shit on I Net, you know, kind of
<v Speaker 1>say like it's not, oh, it's.
<v Speaker 2>Not it's not the same.
<v Speaker 1>It's well, you know, I've seen a lot of bat
<v Speaker 1>or varium collections that were kind of indecipherable where it
<v Speaker 1>looked like somebody's you know, mushed the salad onto a
<v Speaker 1>piece of paper and it's you know, I'd rather see,
<v Speaker 1>especially if someone's using like an actual like icon camera
<v Speaker 1>or something, not just the cell phone camera and it's
<v Speaker 1>all clear and they know what they're doing.
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather look at photos, to be honest.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, and there's good and bad things in both sides.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, of course there's shitty things on I naturally
<v Speaker 3>is things that is just trash, to be honest. But
<v Speaker 3>the same thing happens were varium. I mean there's many
<v Speaker 3>local or barriers that they're not even accessible to public,
<v Speaker 3>and they don't have like digital collections or databases out
<v Speaker 3>for public consultation. I mean, so where do we stand.
<v Speaker 3>We need to put together all the pieces so we
<v Speaker 3>can keep track of or biodiversity. And I'm just not
<v Speaker 3>talking about plants. I think we need to step out
<v Speaker 3>a little bit out of just one group and we're
<v Speaker 3>talking about their varians. But we don't have like entomological
<v Speaker 3>collections here, even if we have them, just in name you,
<v Speaker 3>you cannot go to an entomological collection here in Northeast Mexico.
<v Speaker 3>We don't have those. I mean, I mean yeah, I
<v Speaker 3>mean academia universities they're gonna tell you, of course we have.
<v Speaker 3>And what are you talking about, your blasphemous person, We
<v Speaker 3>have entomological collections. Okay, Can I go visit? Oh no, wait,
<v Speaker 3>we're going by and we're trying to put them together.
<v Speaker 3>We're doing some restoration in a couple of months, maybe
<v Speaker 3>you can go. So that's that's the reality. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>try it sometime. I mean they try to visit like
<v Speaker 3>a local or varium, and it's it's not going to happen.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't want to talk is there funding for it,
<v Speaker 1>because that's something that a lot of places in the
<v Speaker 1>States have been working with, is there's just not funding,
<v Speaker 1>especially for a lot of our you know, like Duke
<v Speaker 1>University just shut down. They defunded it. The Duke University
<v Speaker 1>or varium. I mean that which is insane to me,
<v Speaker 1>is how is that situation in.
<v Speaker 3>Mexico, it's the same. I mean, nobody cares for barius
<v Speaker 3>collection except the local botanist. I mean, like Mansalina Gonzalees.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they're they're struggling. They're they're working with their
<v Speaker 3>nails to keep those collections alive. I mean it's not
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to criticize the individuals because they're amazing
<v Speaker 3>people doing the best they can with nothing. I mean
<v Speaker 3>they probably they're provided with a salary, but the institution
<v Speaker 3>doesn't actually give like Okay, here's your budget for this year.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that doesn't happen. I mean even if it's
<v Speaker 3>like okay, there's one hundred dollars for the whole year,
<v Speaker 3>they don't have even that, so everything is being done
<v Speaker 3>on their pretty much their own salaries, and a lot
<v Speaker 3>of hard work from young students like social services, like
<v Speaker 3>professional practices, like maybe guys doing a thesis in there.
<v Speaker 3>But again, I mean those those are like really valuable
<v Speaker 3>collections because they hold historical records nowhere else to be found.
<v Speaker 3>But the downside is you cannot go in there, or
<v Speaker 3>it's really hard to get in there and actually pull
<v Speaker 3>the information out to be used. It's it's not easy,
<v Speaker 3>and sometimes it's not done like in like on purpose
<v Speaker 3>to to negate the information is just not possible, believe
<v Speaker 3>it or not. Some of the vouchers varium specimens here
<v Speaker 3>in the University of Novoleon, they are powdered with the
<v Speaker 3>de te from the seventies, so really they had no yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I mean I saw that with my own eyes. You
<v Speaker 3>you open a cabinet and you pull out one I
<v Speaker 3>don't know, Nimphaia water lily ship and it was powdered with.
<v Speaker 2>So the insect aside.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, because they didn't have any other way to protect
<v Speaker 3>that voucher specimen. So it's a mess, is it? Is it? Anyway?
<v Speaker 1>We there's just not climate control a something for the
<v Speaker 1>I mean, how does.
<v Speaker 4>It No, no, no, no, my dear friend sadly to say,
<v Speaker 4>I mean the facility is there is just like bare
<v Speaker 4>minimum stuff like four walls, like the cabinets.
<v Speaker 3>Again, nobody has done a real effort. And I'm talking
<v Speaker 3>about the guys up in the big offices of the university. Okay,
<v Speaker 3>here a couple of million pestels for you to get
<v Speaker 3>new place for the arbarier. We're gonna would like this
<v Speaker 3>big effort. Nobody cares. I mean, all the way up,
<v Speaker 3>I'm talking about master chiefs in the high offices as
<v Speaker 3>the council over there.
<v Speaker 2>That's why.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, that's that's again, that's a benefit of
<v Speaker 1>or what would be a benefit of creating getting more
<v Speaker 1>people ampt and and native plants, getting them more just
<v Speaker 1>random people into body, creating a culture around it, because
<v Speaker 1>then there's a larger group demanding that you know, this
<v Speaker 1>stuff gets funded and that it gets taken care of
<v Speaker 1>and expressing interest in it.
<v Speaker 3>Can I get a little parannoyed here?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 5>Go ahead, Yeah, Okay, So if we if we actually
<v Speaker 5>have like a strong base of knowledge on bidiversity around
<v Speaker 5>the city, that could be dangerous to land developers and
<v Speaker 5>big companies.
<v Speaker 3>Around the city. I mean in Montres and industrial city,
<v Speaker 3>it's always run by people with big money, big companies.
<v Speaker 3>There are huge land developers building thousands of houses around here,
<v Speaker 3>but we have strong knowledge to actually tell the people
<v Speaker 3>what we are losing or or what we are putting
<v Speaker 3>in danger. Because of that, I think that's when we
<v Speaker 3>biologies became or can become like a dangerous person for
<v Speaker 3>the interest of those big companies. I don't know if
<v Speaker 3>I am expressing myself properly here.
<v Speaker 1>I think it makes sense, but I think that's totally reasonable.
<v Speaker 3>Information is power, you know that. I mean that's a saying.
<v Speaker 3>I mean the information That information is power. So whatever holds,
<v Speaker 3>whoever holds the information about this kind of stuff, has
<v Speaker 3>the power to actually stop those those projects, especially when
<v Speaker 3>when they're done illegally or when then they don't according uh.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, my friend is the governor, so I need
<v Speaker 3>to ask my friend to authorize this land development. I
<v Speaker 3>don't care what he needs to do. I just want
<v Speaker 3>to sell more houses here. So that's where the economic
<v Speaker 3>interested get heats. But by university acknowledge, and I think
<v Speaker 3>that's why the government stopped putting money into biouniversity research here. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's my paranoid. Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>If you're a ship back developer and you want to
<v Speaker 1>put up some sleazy, you know, sprawling housing complex, even
<v Speaker 1>though it's say in an area where there's not going
<v Speaker 1>to be an aqua for in twenty years, it's a
<v Speaker 1>lot easier to do that if there's not a lot
<v Speaker 1>of people that have interest in protecting the land that
<v Speaker 1>you want to develop, especially if you're going to be
<v Speaker 1>taking it illegally or you know, using some sort of
<v Speaker 1>nepotism or something to get it.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's paranoid. I think that makes sense.
<v Speaker 1>I think that's happened. Yeah, that's.
<v Speaker 3>Because I'm supposed to be like more objective. But nah,
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of.
<v Speaker 1>We know, human beings, you know, we've seen you can
<v Speaker 1>see what human beings can do, especially people in power.
<v Speaker 1>You know, I feel like power is power and wealth
<v Speaker 1>especially draw the sociopaths out, you know, like it's like
<v Speaker 1>drawing puss from a boil. It's like drawing puss from a.
<v Speaker 2>Boil, you know.
<v Speaker 3>I like that.
<v Speaker 2>It's gnarly.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, But well, I don't know, there's I mean,
<v Speaker 1>there's so much I could talk to you about especially
<v Speaker 1>with with plants. But I guess I can can end
<v Speaker 1>it there enough to do it again sometime we last time,
<v Speaker 1>I think it was like four years ago, maybe a
<v Speaker 1>little bit less, but uh, but I do want to
<v Speaker 1>ask you, what about like the I know you, would
<v Speaker 1>you you help describe astrophytem could put MEDUSI or at
<v Speaker 1>the time it was digital stigma.
<v Speaker 2>Is that if you has anyone gone back to check
<v Speaker 2>on that population lately?
<v Speaker 1>What's going on with this very rare cactus that looks
<v Speaker 1>like an octopus?
<v Speaker 3>To be honest, that's with the drug problems start. I mean,
<v Speaker 3>the habbitat is located, it's not the safest place around.
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you can go there, you can probably be fine,
<v Speaker 3>but it's also likely that you find a couple of
<v Speaker 3>big trucks that are gonna pull you out and and
<v Speaker 3>give you a hard time. I mean, it's not the
<v Speaker 3>base place, but hopefully that will help. So at some
<v Speaker 3>point a few years ago, somebody mentioned narco conservacy, which
<v Speaker 3>meant that territories that were controlled by narcos, nobody go there.
<v Speaker 3>Nobody's gonna poachy little plans like there. So maybe they're
<v Speaker 3>recovering somehow, But I mean we can go and visit
<v Speaker 3>the other stem species and HINTONI I mean, if you
<v Speaker 3>want to, you wanna come around, and actually I would
<v Speaker 3>really like to invite I mean your audience. I mean, uh,
<v Speaker 3>visiting Mexico. If you are a nature lover, Mexico can
<v Speaker 3>offer tourists visitors a great deal of a variety. If
<v Speaker 3>you want to see birds, if you want to see butterflies,
<v Speaker 3>you want to find pines, you go to. If you
<v Speaker 3>want to see cacti, you can come here and visit.
<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of nature spot for visitors and tours.
<v Speaker 2>Are you still doing tours?
<v Speaker 3>I'm not doing them then anymore. But if you want
<v Speaker 3>to come just then you can share my my context
<v Speaker 3>and people.
<v Speaker 1>Get a hold of you if they want to say
<v Speaker 1>they want to go down for a weekend and they're
<v Speaker 1>like from South Texas.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, to move around with people, yeah, oh yeah. But
<v Speaker 3>again it's kind of I don't want to. I don't
<v Speaker 3>want to give the impression that, yes, we do have
<v Speaker 3>a lot of drug issues and drug narcos around, but
<v Speaker 3>Mexico is still one of one of the best places
<v Speaker 3>to go out and look for nature. I mean, you
<v Speaker 3>were there, you were here, like just a couple of
<v Speaker 3>weeks ago and you went to lest Anezuela. It's just
<v Speaker 3>a twenty minute drive from downtown.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you have.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there's people everywhere as families and shit. You know,
<v Speaker 1>you guys have cartels, we have mass shootings and you know,
<v Speaker 1>fatties everywhere. So okay, it's a trade off. It's not
<v Speaker 1>like the US is that's safe either. For fox sake.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, let's be honest.
<v Speaker 3>I know, and I know, I know, I mean I
<v Speaker 3>get the chance here. I mean, you have you have
<v Speaker 3>a broad audience, and I'm not inviting you to come
<v Speaker 3>just to Monterrey and I'm in buying you come and
<v Speaker 3>visit Mexico. I mean, take a look at nature around here.
<v Speaker 3>Go see Wales at California, go busit mushroom fair in.
<v Speaker 3>There's so so many things that Mexican nature can can
<v Speaker 3>offer the whole planet. And I'm talking because you have
<v Speaker 3>international audience. So it's it's the kind of things that
<v Speaker 3>I mean, if you look at Costa Rica, Costa Rica
<v Speaker 3>is doing a great job inviting people to comment see nature. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>so we have a lot of things that we should
<v Speaker 3>be especially local communities out of the big cities. They
<v Speaker 3>should be taking advantages and they're starting to do it.
<v Speaker 3>So visiting Mexico and local communities is a magnificent experience
<v Speaker 3>that I would like people in your audience to actually
<v Speaker 3>enjoy around here. It's the kind of things that you
<v Speaker 3>want to share with the world because you're provate and
<v Speaker 3>you want everybody to know. I mean, I want to
<v Speaker 3>that to your own and that's that's a message. If
<v Speaker 3>you have the chance to visit Mexico's nature, don't miss it.
<v Speaker 1>But I want to follow up you you if you're
<v Speaker 1>an American, don't act like an American. Just be cognizant
<v Speaker 1>with you know what you know what I mean, if
<v Speaker 1>you're an American you go to Mexico, just be respectful
<v Speaker 1>because there's been issues with that.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know about the but if you were let
<v Speaker 3>me tell you that that again. If you are people
<v Speaker 3>who are care for nature, you're probably the right person
<v Speaker 3>to be around in nature here and you probably be
<v Speaker 3>like respectful. I mean, people who are that's morals, they
<v Speaker 3>don't care about nature. So I know you're audience.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm sure you raise a good point there. If
<v Speaker 1>there's someone who's like some Karen is like can I
<v Speaker 1>have another tack out that's not going to be that's
<v Speaker 1>probably not going to be someone who's going out to
<v Speaker 1>look at a gave albo pilosa or just.
<v Speaker 2>Enjoy brads or something.
<v Speaker 1>In my experience, those are not two circles that necessarily
<v Speaker 1>overlap on the vent diagram.
<v Speaker 3>But I think we can ask your audience how they
<v Speaker 3>feel about that that that that could be a good question.
<v Speaker 3>How you feel about respecting other people's cultures places if
<v Speaker 3>you are a naked So let's let's not keep open
<v Speaker 3>in the in the podcast.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's the level of self awareness like when you're
<v Speaker 1>out in public?
<v Speaker 3>You know?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, man, well thanks a lot for coming on
<v Speaker 1>and doing this. I could talk to you for another
<v Speaker 1>hour or two, but we'll just save it till next time.
<v Speaker 2>I see you. So appreciate it.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sure, sure, I mean, thank you so much for this,
<v Speaker 3>the chance to talk to your audience and to talk
<v Speaker 3>to you. It's always fantastic. I really like talking to you, man.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, same, same, Yeah, I consider you a close friend.
<v Speaker 1>What tell everybody your Instagram and how to get a
<v Speaker 1>hold of you and throw your email in there too
<v Speaker 1>in case they want to hit you. Up for you know, advice,
<v Speaker 1>somewhere to go see if you've got a weekend free whatever.
<v Speaker 3>She sure you can. You can catch me on Instagram
<v Speaker 3>as a steak. You I don't know how to spell
<v Speaker 3>that in English, A C T K. I don't know
<v Speaker 3>a stecim miss cactus genus.
<v Speaker 2>Sorry k I U M. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for that. Sorry for my bad
<v Speaker 3>spelling on that. And yeah you can. You can lay
<v Speaker 3>down my email in there, and just if anyone is
<v Speaker 3>interesting in moving around here, just let me know.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, yeah, okay, And I'll uh yeah. If I
<v Speaker 1>guess people if they want to reach out to you
<v Speaker 1>for like tours or just to show them around or
<v Speaker 1>something for a weekend, even if they're just coming from
<v Speaker 1>the borderlands or something, they can hit me up and
<v Speaker 1>I'll i'll uh I'll ask you first before I readily
<v Speaker 1>give out your your contact info. But anyway, man, all right,
<v Speaker 1>well Carlos, thanks a lot, brother, and I'll uh yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'll probably see you in the next few months or some.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sure, see you around, man, It's great to see you.
<v Speaker 2>To take care.
<v Speaker 3>B