Oak Ridge’s Quantum Science Center takes a multidisciplinary approach to developing quantum materials and technologies

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly

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podcast. I'm Hamish Johnston.

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In this episode, I'm in conversation with Travis

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Humble, who is director of the Quantum Science

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Center

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at Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

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This podcast is brought to you by American

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Now invent.

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Located in The US state of Tennessee,

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Oak Ridge National Lab is run by the

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US Department of Energy,

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the DOE.

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The Quantum Science Center links Oak Ridge with

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other US National Labs,

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universities,

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and companies.

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In this podcast,

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Travis Humble explains how these collaborations

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ensure that Oak Ridge's powerful facilities

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and instruments

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are used to create new quantum technologies.

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He also explains how the lab's expertise

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in quantum

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and conventional computing

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is benefiting

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the academic

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and industrial

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communities.

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Hi, Travis. Welcome to the podcast.

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Hi, Hamish. Thanks for having me.

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So, Travis,

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Oak Ridge is home to several facilities for

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material

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characterization,

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including the spallation neutron source.

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How is, Oak Ridge National Lab using these

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facilities

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to develop new materials

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for quantum technologies?

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Oak Ridge National Laboratory has many unique facilities,

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including the spallation neutron source, which is actually

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one of the Department of Energy's user facilities.

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This is one of the brightest sources of

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neutrons in the world and, of course, an

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incredibly powerful capability for characterizing

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novel materials.

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Within

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Oak Ridge and part of our quantum,

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science and technology efforts, we're actually looking at

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some remarkable examples of materials

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that can have what we call topological

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order or entanglement in them.

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These materials are electronic or magnetic.

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And what makes them so interesting is that

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under the right conditions,

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they can actually have these unique phases

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where the electrons or the spins that are

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involved

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can actually be entangled in a quantum mechanical

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way.

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And by using the spallation neutron source and

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some of the neutron beams that we have

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there, we can actually probe these materials,

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recover the neutrons that scatter off of them,

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and from those signals,

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infer whether or not the materials

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are entangled.

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So this is a remarkable capability. It is

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something unique about Oak Ridge and

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Department of Energy's user facilities that allow us

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to explore an entirely new regime of of

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of materials, these types of, strongly correlated quantum

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materials that we think to be very useful

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for developing new quantum technologies.

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I see. And I suppose the spallation neutron

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sort that source, that's your,

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as well I suppose big ticket

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facility or one of the sort of big

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ticket facilities

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that you have at Oak Ridge. But you

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you must have other

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materials,

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characterization

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capabilities that you use along with the, with

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the neutron source. Can you can you talk

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a bit about those and how they might

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be used

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in,

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materials characterization

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for quantum technologies?

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The SNS or Spallies Neutron Source is certainly

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one of our biggest and boldest,

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instruments that we have for characterizing these these

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types of systems,

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but in no way is it the only

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one.

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We are also home to the Center for

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Nanophase Material Science. This is one of the

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Department of Energy's

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Nanoscience Research Centers.

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It is a remarkable facility

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co located,

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with the spallation neutron source

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to enable us to characterize new materials. In

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fact, it actually enables the synthesis,

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the creation of these materials,

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the characterization,

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and then ultimately

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demonstrating control over them. So I'll give you

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one particular example.

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We are very interested in a type of

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material that is known as a spin liquid.

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It's a spin system, magnetic system,

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where the spins within the material can actually

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become entangled with each other,

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demonstrate correlations over very large distances. And this

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is large relative to individual atoms, mind you.

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And using the neutron source, we've actually been

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able to detect

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a signature

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that there is, in fact, entanglement present in

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these materials. This is ruthenium trichloride is one

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particular example of this type of quantum magnet,

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but there are several others.

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And because we have the capabilities

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of the the CNMS, the Center for Nanophase

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Material Science,

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we're now taking those materials that have been

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certified as quantum or entangled

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and translating them into a process where we

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start to design new types of devices.

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This gets into the fabrication of the material

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into unique geometries,

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the connection to electrodes and other types of

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control systems

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that then provide a path

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to demonstrating novel physics and other types of

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unique behaviors.

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Hamish, just to kind of, get to the

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punch line on this, what we really think

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is possible is that these types of quantum

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spin liquids

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can be translated into a new qubit technology

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that can store and process quantum information.

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We haven't demonstrated that yet, but the tools

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and capabilities that we have here at Oak

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Ridge are incredibly empowering,

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for that type of technology development.

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I see. And I'm guessing that it's very

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important to have all of these things together

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in one place

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and have some very skilled people

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who,

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know how to make the,

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devices that you're testing and also know how

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to use the sort of plethora of of

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analysis equipment

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that you have. Can can can you talk

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a bit about,

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about the people,

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at Oak Ridge who are involved in this?

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I'm guessing you've got physicists, chemists, material scientists,

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engineers all working together?

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It is absolutely a multidisciplinary

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environment. And

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I would say that

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the facilities,

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the the ecosystem that we've created within the

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laboratory

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actually

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supports this type of interchange and collaboration across

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disciplines.

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Just like you suggested, the

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the instruments that we have enable these new

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types of discoveries, these development of scientific ideas,

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the translation into technologies.

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But that's a multistep process. And you can

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only succeed when you have a team of

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people working together on these kind of large

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scale problems.

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And that team is always multidisciplinary.

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I will say that in my experience,

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the ability for the team to communicate efficiently,

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to understand each other's

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concepts and reasoning, and to translate back and

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forth across these disciplinary boundaries

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is probably one of the central and most

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important parts of, this type of scientific development.

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Certainly, when you have a common facility, a

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common infrastructure

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that can be facilitated

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by these types of, coordination,

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then you can get much more powerful science

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that comes out of it.

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Just to give you an example of what

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I'm what I'm thinking about here,

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when we talk about qubits

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in, quantum science and technology space,

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the truth is everybody has a slightly different

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definition of that word. For my computer scientist

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friends, this is sort of a logical representation

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of information that we manipulate through algorithms and

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programs and other types of, methods.

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While for my material

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scientist friends, this is almost always a two

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level system embedded in some electronic or magnetic

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degree of freedom and often independent of the

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logical,

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and and computational connections that are gonna be

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necessary there.

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So bridging that, is definitely a multidisciplinary,

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activity.

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And these types of facilities

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bring all those people together and really amplify

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the types of science and and development that

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can occur.

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I see. And and can you talk a

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bit about, who you collaborate with outside

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of, Oak Ridge? I'm I'm guessing that you

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you you you you're involved in lots of

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projects with, with scientists from universities around The

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US, probably

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around the world,

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I would imagine.

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Is that a I'm guessing that's a big

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part of what you do, collaboration,

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enabling

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university scientists, for example, to,

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to do experiments.

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The national laboratories

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play an important role, I think, in the

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ecosystem for research and development within The United

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States.

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And partnerships

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are a critical piece of that activity.

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Some of these are partnerships with universities,

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especially,

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individual

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investigators who are looking to get access to

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these, types of instruments that we're talking about.

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Of course, as user facilities for the Department

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of Energy, there are actually programs in place

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to go and apply to, use an instrument

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or spend time with scientists who are working

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there to develop an idea and ultimately

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publish on the results from it. But in

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addition, a lot of the work that we

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do within these facilities and within the national

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laboratories

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requires that partnership.

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Easily, the the the most obvious one is

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workforce

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And the ability to train the next generation

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of scientists and engineers who are gonna work

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on these topics

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oftentimes requires

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early exposure and understanding of what the national

285
00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:27,870
labs do, the mission,

286
00:11:28,194 --> 00:11:30,115
but also the types of equipment and and

287
00:11:30,115 --> 00:11:31,654
methods that we're using here.

288
00:11:32,194 --> 00:11:35,014
So in addition to kind of pursuing research

289
00:11:35,074 --> 00:11:38,274
goals and developing science and breakthroughs in these

290
00:11:38,274 --> 00:11:38,774
areas,

291
00:11:39,315 --> 00:11:42,820
that partnership also builds up this infrastructure, these

292
00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:45,639
personnel that we're talking about that can support

293
00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:47,940
the operation of the center, the operation of

294
00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:48,600
the laboratories,

295
00:11:49,139 --> 00:11:50,519
and put all of that forward.

296
00:11:51,379 --> 00:11:53,960
Here at Oak Ridge, we actually have a

297
00:11:55,644 --> 00:11:56,704
highly ambitious

298
00:11:57,004 --> 00:11:57,504
and,

299
00:11:58,204 --> 00:11:59,985
I would say, impactful effort

300
00:12:00,365 --> 00:12:03,164
through our Quantum Science Center. And the Quantum

301
00:12:03,164 --> 00:12:05,725
Science Center is one of the Department of

302
00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:09,184
Energy's National Quantum Information Science Research Centers.

303
00:12:09,570 --> 00:12:10,629
It is a,

304
00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:11,670
partnership.

305
00:12:12,210 --> 00:12:13,830
The QSC is a partnership

306
00:12:14,290 --> 00:12:16,870
led by Oak Ridge, but all but including

307
00:12:16,929 --> 00:12:18,389
over 20 other institutions,

308
00:12:18,929 --> 00:12:20,929
involved in that partnership, and many of those

309
00:12:20,929 --> 00:12:21,910
coming from universities

310
00:12:22,495 --> 00:12:23,715
as well as industry.

311
00:12:24,335 --> 00:12:27,315
So this type of coordination of effort

312
00:12:27,695 --> 00:12:28,595
and the collaboration

313
00:12:28,975 --> 00:12:29,715
of multidisciplinary

314
00:12:30,415 --> 00:12:31,554
and even kind of,

315
00:12:33,215 --> 00:12:36,195
perspectives from industry, academia, and government

316
00:12:36,929 --> 00:12:37,429
is

317
00:12:37,970 --> 00:12:38,610
is in,

318
00:12:39,809 --> 00:12:40,790
very good hands,

319
00:12:41,169 --> 00:12:42,230
within the laboratory

320
00:12:42,690 --> 00:12:45,009
because it requires us to have that type

321
00:12:45,009 --> 00:12:47,730
of partnership and focused effort in order to

322
00:12:47,730 --> 00:12:48,870
make these advances.

323
00:12:50,664 --> 00:12:53,784
And I would imagine with quantum I mean,

324
00:12:53,784 --> 00:12:55,804
quantum is is is real

325
00:12:56,424 --> 00:12:58,904
business now, isn't it? It's not just ideas

326
00:12:58,904 --> 00:13:01,384
about about how you could start a company

327
00:13:01,384 --> 00:13:02,764
based on quantum technologies.

328
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,980
Your collaboration with industry must be growing,

329
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:09,620
on leaps and bounds,

330
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,139
over the years.

331
00:13:12,799 --> 00:13:15,200
You're exactly right. What I would say is

332
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,019
most interesting,

333
00:13:17,174 --> 00:13:19,514
from my perspective at the moment is that

334
00:13:19,894 --> 00:13:22,535
quantum has emerged over the last decade in

335
00:13:22,535 --> 00:13:23,035
particular

336
00:13:23,894 --> 00:13:25,195
as a national

337
00:13:25,575 --> 00:13:26,715
scientific priority.

338
00:13:27,254 --> 00:13:29,035
And this is cut across multiple

339
00:13:30,570 --> 00:13:31,950
federal government administrations.

340
00:13:33,049 --> 00:13:35,850
It's continuing today. And what we are finding

341
00:13:35,850 --> 00:13:38,110
is that that priority is driven by

342
00:13:38,570 --> 00:13:41,309
the concerns for national security. It's a critical

343
00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:41,870
technology.

344
00:13:42,250 --> 00:13:45,485
We're effectively changing out the the technology

345
00:13:45,865 --> 00:13:49,065
basis of a entire planet, and, that has

346
00:13:49,065 --> 00:13:51,164
huge implications in many different areas.

347
00:13:51,785 --> 00:13:53,884
It provides economic advantage,

348
00:13:54,264 --> 00:13:57,304
including the development of new products and services.

349
00:13:57,304 --> 00:13:58,759
And this, of course,

350
00:13:59,220 --> 00:14:01,060
is one of the reasons industry is so

351
00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:03,460
interested in this type of technology is that

352
00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:05,000
it opens up opportunities

353
00:14:05,540 --> 00:14:07,460
that frankly you can't get to in any

354
00:14:07,460 --> 00:14:08,200
other way.

355
00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:10,759
And then I think from my own perspective,

356
00:14:11,764 --> 00:14:13,304
quantum is an enabling

357
00:14:15,205 --> 00:14:15,705
ability

358
00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,285
for new scientific discoveries. And that, of course,

359
00:14:19,285 --> 00:14:22,825
has huge implications for things in energy innovation

360
00:14:23,365 --> 00:14:23,865
and

361
00:14:24,769 --> 00:14:25,750
and other topics.

362
00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:26,870
So

363
00:14:27,330 --> 00:14:29,490
because of this kind of setting, the context

364
00:14:29,490 --> 00:14:31,509
right now in the in The United States,

365
00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:34,610
the drive for industry to develop these new

366
00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:37,570
products and services, the focus on the government

367
00:14:37,570 --> 00:14:39,934
and other parts of the the ecosystem

368
00:14:40,235 --> 00:14:41,855
to build out these capabilities

369
00:14:42,795 --> 00:14:44,495
has not only increased

370
00:14:44,875 --> 00:14:46,415
the the stake

371
00:14:46,795 --> 00:14:47,295
in,

372
00:14:47,674 --> 00:14:48,815
what we're all pursuing,

373
00:14:49,195 --> 00:14:51,674
but also driven home the emphasis that we

374
00:14:51,674 --> 00:14:53,134
need to all do this together.

375
00:14:53,595 --> 00:14:56,129
So, So certainly, the national laboratories and industry

376
00:14:56,129 --> 00:14:57,509
are partnering very closely,

377
00:14:57,970 --> 00:15:00,850
including the ability to access the types of

378
00:15:00,850 --> 00:15:03,809
instruments that we have here through SNS and

379
00:15:03,809 --> 00:15:06,709
the CNMS, as well as, other facilities.

380
00:15:07,934 --> 00:15:10,674
But at the same time, we're getting access

381
00:15:10,735 --> 00:15:12,975
to the types of technologies that industry is

382
00:15:12,975 --> 00:15:13,475
developing,

383
00:15:14,095 --> 00:15:16,754
especially in their quantum computing platforms.

384
00:15:17,615 --> 00:15:19,615
So this is one of the most exciting

385
00:15:19,615 --> 00:15:21,294
partnerships I think that we have at the

386
00:15:21,294 --> 00:15:23,680
moment is how can we, as a laboratory,

387
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:27,500
understand these new products and services that industry

388
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:29,899
is creating in the quantum space and start

389
00:15:29,899 --> 00:15:33,180
to integrate them, adapt them into our own

390
00:15:33,180 --> 00:15:34,800
scientific discovery workflows.

391
00:15:35,285 --> 00:15:36,404
And, of course, this is,

392
00:15:37,045 --> 00:15:39,205
one of the hottest areas right now. How

393
00:15:39,205 --> 00:15:40,745
do you use a quantum computer

394
00:15:41,045 --> 00:15:43,524
to solve these types of material science problems

395
00:15:43,524 --> 00:15:45,684
that we were just talking about, with the

396
00:15:45,684 --> 00:15:47,065
sphalation neutron source?

397
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,259
And I I wanna talk to you may

398
00:15:50,339 --> 00:15:50,839
maybe

399
00:15:51,220 --> 00:15:54,839
in a while about, about using quantum computing

400
00:15:55,299 --> 00:15:57,620
computers, which I think is that's something that

401
00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:00,580
Oak Ridge is, is involved in. But first,

402
00:16:00,580 --> 00:16:01,860
I want to ask you about,

403
00:16:02,674 --> 00:16:05,634
sort of classical computing because, of course, the

404
00:16:05,634 --> 00:16:07,254
lab is also famous

405
00:16:07,954 --> 00:16:09,894
for its, high performance

406
00:16:10,274 --> 00:16:10,774
computing.

407
00:16:11,235 --> 00:16:14,034
And, it's home to Frontier, which is one

408
00:16:14,034 --> 00:16:16,134
of the world's most powerful supercomputers.

409
00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:18,990
Can you talk a bit about how the

410
00:16:18,990 --> 00:16:22,610
lab is using its expertise in classical computation

411
00:16:22,910 --> 00:16:26,210
to develop new paradigms for quantum computing?

412
00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:30,129
High performance computing,

413
00:16:30,910 --> 00:16:31,649
has been

414
00:16:32,245 --> 00:16:35,544
a remarkable and disruptive ability for

415
00:16:36,084 --> 00:16:37,544
not just exploring

416
00:16:38,004 --> 00:16:39,144
complex systems,

417
00:16:39,524 --> 00:16:40,824
but also understanding

418
00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:42,504
their behaviors and

419
00:16:42,884 --> 00:16:45,464
how those behaviors can be controlled and ultimately

420
00:16:45,684 --> 00:16:47,625
applied to to new ideas.

421
00:16:49,230 --> 00:16:52,110
One particular example is in the area of

422
00:16:52,110 --> 00:16:53,250
material science,

423
00:16:53,949 --> 00:16:56,929
chemistry, biology, other complex physical systems,

424
00:16:57,470 --> 00:16:59,009
where modeling and simulation

425
00:17:00,044 --> 00:17:02,784
play a huge role in our scientific discovery

426
00:17:02,924 --> 00:17:05,904
process. In fact, many people would say that

427
00:17:05,964 --> 00:17:07,585
next to theory and experiment,

428
00:17:08,365 --> 00:17:10,924
computation is a sort of a third pillar

429
00:17:10,924 --> 00:17:12,545
of the the r and d ecosystem.

430
00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:16,819
And here, high performance computers are the high

431
00:17:16,819 --> 00:17:19,700
bar on capability when it comes to modeling

432
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:20,359
and simulation,

433
00:17:21,059 --> 00:17:23,700
even optimization and design. A lot of times,

434
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:26,119
we're using these classical computing capabilities

435
00:17:27,025 --> 00:17:28,484
to reason about systems,

436
00:17:28,944 --> 00:17:31,345
come up with the best alternatives, or or

437
00:17:31,345 --> 00:17:32,644
optimize their behaviors.

438
00:17:33,345 --> 00:17:34,085
And then

439
00:17:34,384 --> 00:17:35,605
one of the most remarkable,

440
00:17:37,025 --> 00:17:39,585
examples in the the last several years has

441
00:17:39,585 --> 00:17:40,484
been the application

442
00:17:41,025 --> 00:17:41,845
of HPC

443
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:44,970
to machine learning and artificial intelligence.

444
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:48,869
So cutting across kind of those three big,

445
00:17:49,349 --> 00:17:49,849
application

446
00:17:50,150 --> 00:17:50,650
areas,

447
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:53,609
you can start to understand that high performance

448
00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:56,250
computing is just as powerful of a tool

449
00:17:56,644 --> 00:17:59,625
as the spallation neutron source or the CNMS

450
00:18:00,325 --> 00:18:01,384
when it comes to

451
00:18:02,085 --> 00:18:05,065
understanding and exploring these complex physical systems.

452
00:18:05,845 --> 00:18:06,664
What is,

453
00:18:08,005 --> 00:18:09,065
been very important

454
00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:12,289
about having all of these facilities colocated at

455
00:18:12,289 --> 00:18:13,029
Oak Ridge

456
00:18:13,329 --> 00:18:15,349
is that you can create that ecosystem

457
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:16,710
where

458
00:18:17,089 --> 00:18:19,409
the simulation that we've run on the high

459
00:18:19,409 --> 00:18:21,829
performance computer provides datasets

460
00:18:22,434 --> 00:18:24,355
that can be compared directly with the types

461
00:18:24,355 --> 00:18:26,674
of data that's coming out of the neutron

462
00:18:26,674 --> 00:18:27,815
scattering experiments.

463
00:18:28,515 --> 00:18:31,974
And that provides a very tight and, coordinated

464
00:18:32,355 --> 00:18:33,335
cycle of development

465
00:18:33,795 --> 00:18:35,875
that ensures that we get to the the

466
00:18:35,875 --> 00:18:37,974
best results the fastest way possible.

467
00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:41,710
Of course, this again introduces the the questions

468
00:18:41,710 --> 00:18:43,250
that we were talking about earlier

469
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:45,089
when it comes to multidisciplinary

470
00:18:45,629 --> 00:18:48,929
efforts and, team science as we call it.

471
00:18:49,149 --> 00:18:51,149
You have to have good coordination. You have

472
00:18:51,149 --> 00:18:52,609
to have clarity and communication.

473
00:18:53,174 --> 00:18:54,615
And then, of course, you have to have

474
00:18:54,615 --> 00:18:57,335
a very clear vision about the goals that

475
00:18:57,335 --> 00:18:58,475
you're trying to accomplish.

476
00:18:59,174 --> 00:19:01,035
That's what keeps this all on the rails,

477
00:19:01,494 --> 00:19:03,654
making sure that all of these efforts have

478
00:19:03,654 --> 00:19:06,240
a common understanding of the mission of the

479
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,640
the laboratory as well as the, the Department

480
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:09,299
of Energy.

481
00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:12,960
High performance computing is, certainly one of the

482
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,019
the biggest and, I would say, most significant

483
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,640
capabilities that we have right now for pushing

484
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:19,779
that frontier forward.

485
00:19:21,154 --> 00:19:23,795
I see. And and Travis, you're also director

486
00:19:23,795 --> 00:19:27,875
of Oak Ridge's quantum computing user program, and

487
00:19:27,875 --> 00:19:30,855
that provides access to commercial quantum computers.

488
00:19:31,634 --> 00:19:33,974
Who who are your users? Are they

489
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:35,480
industry

490
00:19:35,779 --> 00:19:37,080
or a bit of both?

491
00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:39,940
And what resources do do you provide them

492
00:19:39,940 --> 00:19:40,440
with?

493
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,740
The quantum computing user program was started back

494
00:19:44,740 --> 00:19:46,279
in 02/2017.

495
00:19:47,125 --> 00:19:47,944
At that time,

496
00:19:48,404 --> 00:19:51,605
quantum computers were just begun just beginning to

497
00:19:51,605 --> 00:19:52,345
come online.

498
00:19:52,884 --> 00:19:53,384
So,

499
00:19:54,005 --> 00:19:56,244
a few of the vendors like IBM and

500
00:19:56,244 --> 00:19:58,345
D Wave and maybe one or two others

501
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:00,440
were starting to see value

502
00:20:00,740 --> 00:20:01,480
in having

503
00:20:02,019 --> 00:20:03,880
their systems available publicly,

504
00:20:04,579 --> 00:20:05,720
through different mechanisms

505
00:20:06,339 --> 00:20:08,359
so that they could generate feedback

506
00:20:08,819 --> 00:20:11,539
on the development and the design, the operation

507
00:20:11,539 --> 00:20:12,440
of those systems.

508
00:20:13,345 --> 00:20:16,005
Well, of course, one of the main motivations

509
00:20:16,304 --> 00:20:18,164
behind developing quantum computing

510
00:20:18,625 --> 00:20:21,184
has been the creation of a platform that

511
00:20:21,184 --> 00:20:23,904
could be used to model and simulate complex

512
00:20:23,904 --> 00:20:24,404
systems.

513
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:27,679
And that immediately aligns with the types of

514
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:29,519
goals that we have at Oak Ridge and,

515
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,099
within many of the national laboratories.

516
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,339
So we saw an opportunity

517
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,940
to partner with industry

518
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,700
on gaining access to their quantum computing systems.

519
00:20:40,595 --> 00:20:42,755
In our case, though, we didn't wanna just

520
00:20:42,755 --> 00:20:44,775
keep it internal within the laboratory.

521
00:20:45,474 --> 00:20:47,795
We wanted to expand that user base to

522
00:20:47,795 --> 00:20:49,474
bring in people the same way we do

523
00:20:49,474 --> 00:20:50,695
with our other facilities

524
00:20:51,315 --> 00:20:53,734
so that they can also contribute and provide

525
00:20:53,795 --> 00:20:54,855
insights into

526
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,919
what makes a good quantum computer, and when

527
00:20:57,919 --> 00:21:00,480
are the quantum computers good enough that they're

528
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,119
changing the face of what we're already doing

529
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:04,819
within scientific discovery.

530
00:21:05,519 --> 00:21:08,000
So the Quantum Computing User Program, or Q

531
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,619
Cup, as we call it for short,

532
00:21:10,265 --> 00:21:13,404
is now part of our leadership computing facility,

533
00:21:13,544 --> 00:21:15,964
the same facility that houses the Frontier,

534
00:21:17,065 --> 00:21:17,964
computing system.

535
00:21:18,664 --> 00:21:20,125
And through that program,

536
00:21:20,744 --> 00:21:21,565
we recruit

537
00:21:21,865 --> 00:21:23,690
users from all over the country,

538
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:26,009
a few outside of The US as well,

539
00:21:26,549 --> 00:21:29,509
to submit proposals that can then be reviewed

540
00:21:29,509 --> 00:21:30,009
internally,

541
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:34,009
competitively awarded based on their merit and feasibility.

542
00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:37,109
And then they basically get time to,

543
00:21:37,984 --> 00:21:40,545
the quantum computing vendors that we've contracted with

544
00:21:40,545 --> 00:21:41,845
through the Q Cup program

545
00:21:42,384 --> 00:21:44,644
to test and evaluate their programs.

546
00:21:45,505 --> 00:21:47,525
Now currently, we have four vendors,

547
00:21:48,065 --> 00:21:48,565
IBM,

548
00:21:48,945 --> 00:21:49,445
Quantinuum,

549
00:21:50,144 --> 00:21:50,644
IQM,

550
00:21:50,945 --> 00:21:51,765
and IonQ.

551
00:21:52,570 --> 00:21:55,230
And through those vendors, we actually have

552
00:21:56,250 --> 00:21:58,590
gained allocation to run on their systems.

553
00:21:59,210 --> 00:22:00,830
We manage the resources

554
00:22:01,210 --> 00:22:03,210
with the user base that we have through

555
00:22:03,210 --> 00:22:04,350
the Q Cup program.

556
00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:06,365
That's, I think, historically

557
00:22:06,744 --> 00:22:09,945
close to around 400 users from, again, over

558
00:22:09,945 --> 00:22:11,005
many different areas.

559
00:22:11,865 --> 00:22:14,904
And we manage the portfolio of projects that

560
00:22:14,904 --> 00:22:16,525
they are actually exploring.

561
00:22:16,984 --> 00:22:19,085
So just like we were talking about earlier,

562
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:22,730
materials, chemistry, biology, machine learning,

563
00:22:23,109 --> 00:22:24,169
computer science,

564
00:22:25,429 --> 00:22:27,669
there's close to 20 or 30 different topics

565
00:22:27,669 --> 00:22:28,970
that we keep track of,

566
00:22:29,269 --> 00:22:31,589
and we have a portfolio of these users

567
00:22:31,589 --> 00:22:34,305
who are all investigating those those different areas.

568
00:22:35,005 --> 00:22:37,164
It's a remarkable program, and I should say

569
00:22:37,164 --> 00:22:38,225
it is very,

570
00:22:39,085 --> 00:22:40,625
well received by the community.

571
00:22:41,644 --> 00:22:43,265
That's not to say that

572
00:22:43,805 --> 00:22:44,305
the

573
00:22:46,125 --> 00:22:47,345
that it's not a dynamic,

574
00:22:48,045 --> 00:22:50,240
aspect. And what I mean by that is

575
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,159
every year, we have something we call the

576
00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:54,880
quantum computing user forum. It'll be coming up

577
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,359
at the July this year. We get the

578
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,359
users and the vendors together, and we all

579
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,394
sit down, and we talk about what have

580
00:23:01,394 --> 00:23:03,475
been the latest results in our use of

581
00:23:03,475 --> 00:23:04,134
the systems.

582
00:23:04,755 --> 00:23:06,674
And many times, what we will find is

583
00:23:06,674 --> 00:23:09,555
that the users have identified a bottleneck or

584
00:23:09,555 --> 00:23:10,295
a pitfall

585
00:23:10,835 --> 00:23:12,375
that's limiting the availability

586
00:23:12,674 --> 00:23:13,654
of their calculations.

587
00:23:14,549 --> 00:23:16,069
Maybe it's the noise or the error in

588
00:23:16,069 --> 00:23:18,730
the systems. Maybe it's the programming interface.

589
00:23:19,429 --> 00:23:21,609
And this is an opportunity for the vendors

590
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:24,169
to accept that feedback, to make modifications,

591
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:27,269
changes in their own roadmaps and interfaces and

592
00:23:27,269 --> 00:23:27,769
designs

593
00:23:28,164 --> 00:23:30,105
that can be responsive to that community.

594
00:23:30,644 --> 00:23:32,644
I think that's actually one of the the

595
00:23:32,644 --> 00:23:35,384
most amazing parts of this particular program is

596
00:23:35,444 --> 00:23:38,164
the dynamic aspect with which the users and

597
00:23:38,164 --> 00:23:40,325
the vendors can engage through each with each

598
00:23:40,325 --> 00:23:42,679
other. And then, of course, from our perspective

599
00:23:42,740 --> 00:23:44,679
at the at the national laboratory,

600
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:47,380
how do we get ready for integrating that

601
00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:47,880
technology

602
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:51,539
into a future high performance computing system that

603
00:23:51,539 --> 00:23:53,299
can offer this type of service at a

604
00:23:53,299 --> 00:23:54,815
at a much larger one.

605
00:23:56,075 --> 00:23:56,575
Right.

606
00:23:56,875 --> 00:23:58,794
I see. And and, there, are you talking

607
00:23:58,794 --> 00:24:00,875
about sort of a hybrid system that takes

608
00:24:00,875 --> 00:24:02,014
advantage of both

609
00:24:02,315 --> 00:24:04,494
a quantum computer and, say,

610
00:24:05,115 --> 00:24:05,774
a supercomputer

611
00:24:06,154 --> 00:24:08,700
and, you know, sort of runs the appropriate

612
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:09,900
parts of the problem

613
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:10,940
on each,

614
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,160
type of hardware to, sort of maximize the

615
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:15,660
efficiency

616
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:17,019
of the calculation?

617
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,619
I think hybrid systems are the future.

618
00:24:21,855 --> 00:24:23,954
Both in the the context of

619
00:24:24,734 --> 00:24:28,194
we want to integrate quantum computing, the devices,

620
00:24:28,255 --> 00:24:29,714
the methods, the technology

621
00:24:30,575 --> 00:24:31,394
into our

622
00:24:31,855 --> 00:24:35,000
current scientific infrastructure. And of course, that means

623
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,880
high performance computing systems. They're so important to

624
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,859
what we do here.

625
00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:40,539
I envision that

626
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:42,839
we will have some way of taking the

627
00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:43,819
quantum computers,

628
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:46,859
connecting them both physically and logically

629
00:24:47,319 --> 00:24:49,704
to the HPC systems So we can do

630
00:24:49,704 --> 00:24:51,804
exactly as you were describing that

631
00:24:52,105 --> 00:24:53,484
the users, the scientific,

632
00:24:54,264 --> 00:24:57,464
computing users will develop a program. Let's say

633
00:24:57,464 --> 00:24:59,484
it's simulation of a quantum material.

634
00:25:00,024 --> 00:25:02,184
That program does not have to be entirely

635
00:25:02,184 --> 00:25:04,169
run on the quantum computer. There can be

636
00:25:04,169 --> 00:25:06,569
parts of it that are preprocessing or pro

637
00:25:06,569 --> 00:25:09,869
pro post processing on the, HPC system

638
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:12,409
or even some sort of hybrid method where

639
00:25:12,409 --> 00:25:14,190
we're sampling the quantum computer

640
00:25:14,569 --> 00:25:17,549
to inform calculations that are performed on HPC.

641
00:25:17,609 --> 00:25:19,275
There there's lots of options here.

642
00:25:19,835 --> 00:25:21,674
But that's not the only way in which

643
00:25:21,674 --> 00:25:23,775
this type of technology can be integrated.

644
00:25:24,234 --> 00:25:27,455
We can also imagine integrating the quantum computer

645
00:25:27,515 --> 00:25:28,494
directly into

646
00:25:29,035 --> 00:25:29,775
the characterization

647
00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:32,575
and the sensing of these types of materials

648
00:25:33,179 --> 00:25:34,559
so that that calculation

649
00:25:34,859 --> 00:25:36,000
is actually informed

650
00:25:36,539 --> 00:25:38,559
directly by experimental data.

651
00:25:39,099 --> 00:25:40,960
So this type of interconnected,

652
00:25:43,339 --> 00:25:46,619
devices that include computers and sensors and other

653
00:25:46,619 --> 00:25:48,559
types of, quantum technologies,

654
00:25:49,285 --> 00:25:50,884
I think that's a much bigger version of

655
00:25:50,884 --> 00:25:51,605
this hybrid,

656
00:25:52,005 --> 00:25:52,505
paradigm

657
00:25:53,204 --> 00:25:55,045
and certainly something that we can,

658
00:25:55,605 --> 00:25:56,664
evaluate more.

659
00:25:57,365 --> 00:26:00,884
But the idea of connecting quantum technology to

660
00:26:00,884 --> 00:26:02,424
the current scientific infrastructure,

661
00:26:03,220 --> 00:26:05,460
I think this is an absolute necessity for

662
00:26:05,460 --> 00:26:06,839
the survival of the technology

663
00:26:07,539 --> 00:26:10,500
to be, both useful and impactful on the

664
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:11,480
scientific community.

665
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:14,019
I see. And you and you brought me

666
00:26:14,019 --> 00:26:16,440
nicely to my next question, which is about

667
00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:17,559
quantum sensors.

668
00:26:19,184 --> 00:26:20,224
I'm guessing that,

669
00:26:20,625 --> 00:26:23,025
that Oak Ridge is in is, involved in

670
00:26:23,025 --> 00:26:24,164
developing materials,

671
00:26:25,105 --> 00:26:28,224
for quantum sensors as well as quantum competing

672
00:26:28,224 --> 00:26:28,724
devices.

673
00:26:30,304 --> 00:26:31,924
You're exactly right. The

674
00:26:32,859 --> 00:26:34,000
ability to

675
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:35,440
characterize,

676
00:26:36,059 --> 00:26:39,039
to sense, to detect unique quantum signals

677
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:40,960
is actually requiring

678
00:26:41,419 --> 00:26:41,919
advances

679
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:45,099
in those same types of technologies. And and

680
00:26:45,099 --> 00:26:46,700
what I mean by this is that many

681
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:47,200
times,

682
00:26:48,204 --> 00:26:50,544
the features of a of a signal,

683
00:26:50,845 --> 00:26:52,944
let's say it's a spectrum

684
00:26:53,244 --> 00:26:55,724
or some sort of response function, whatever it

685
00:26:55,724 --> 00:26:56,384
might be,

686
00:26:57,085 --> 00:26:57,904
many times

687
00:26:58,284 --> 00:26:59,024
the the

688
00:26:59,569 --> 00:27:01,990
type of feature that we're looking for is

689
00:27:02,210 --> 00:27:03,589
uniquely quantum mechanical,

690
00:27:04,210 --> 00:27:06,710
and that requires an increase in sensitivity

691
00:27:07,009 --> 00:27:07,750
and precision,

692
00:27:08,769 --> 00:27:11,109
in the measurement capability to surpass

693
00:27:11,875 --> 00:27:12,855
what would be conventional

694
00:27:13,234 --> 00:27:13,734
limitations

695
00:27:14,194 --> 00:27:16,115
on the noise and the error in those

696
00:27:16,115 --> 00:27:17,015
types of measurements.

697
00:27:17,794 --> 00:27:20,194
And probably one of the places that Oak

698
00:27:20,194 --> 00:27:22,134
Ridge has, the most expertise

699
00:27:22,914 --> 00:27:24,835
is in surpassing what we call the shot

700
00:27:24,835 --> 00:27:25,559
noise limit.

701
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:28,779
And this is a typical type of statistical

702
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,920
error that occurs as you make many types

703
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,580
of measurements.

704
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,559
It turns out that the,

705
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,000
that particular type of error should scale as

706
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:37,820
one over,

707
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,315
the square root of n, where n is

708
00:27:40,315 --> 00:27:42,315
the number of samples that you're collecting. This

709
00:27:42,315 --> 00:27:44,654
is very, well known, statistical,

710
00:27:45,835 --> 00:27:48,414
consequence of classical information theory.

711
00:27:49,115 --> 00:27:49,855
But quantum,

712
00:27:50,795 --> 00:27:53,535
information theory actually provides us a pathway

713
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:54,779
to

714
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:56,539
reduce that sensitivity

715
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:57,900
to the the,

716
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,440
measurements. In fact, what I mean to say

717
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,279
here is that it changes it from one

718
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:03,880
over square root of n to one over

719
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,799
n so that you have a much better

720
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:08,279
resolution in the measurements using the same number

721
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:09,259
of of collections.

722
00:28:10,295 --> 00:28:11,755
And that type of

723
00:28:12,214 --> 00:28:12,714
development

724
00:28:13,015 --> 00:28:15,595
of sensors that surpass the shot noise limit

725
00:28:16,054 --> 00:28:17,755
gives us a way of

726
00:28:18,214 --> 00:28:19,355
removing the veil

727
00:28:19,654 --> 00:28:22,775
of classical theory that currently covers the quantum

728
00:28:22,775 --> 00:28:23,275
world.

729
00:28:23,734 --> 00:28:25,115
And that exposes

730
00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:27,549
all of these quantum signatures that we're looking

731
00:28:27,549 --> 00:28:29,789
for. Of course, it's a very demanding and

732
00:28:29,789 --> 00:28:32,750
highly sensitive experiment, but those are the ways

733
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:35,710
that we're trying to create quantum sensors that

734
00:28:35,710 --> 00:28:38,829
can characterize materials, look for topological order and

735
00:28:38,829 --> 00:28:40,755
entanglement in exciting new ways.

736
00:28:41,795 --> 00:28:43,634
But then, of course, as we were saying

737
00:28:43,634 --> 00:28:44,134
earlier,

738
00:28:44,914 --> 00:28:45,734
those capabilities

739
00:28:46,595 --> 00:28:49,174
can now be fed directly into

740
00:28:49,634 --> 00:28:51,815
these types of quantum computing systems

741
00:28:52,275 --> 00:28:54,920
where they're naturally using that quantum

742
00:28:55,460 --> 00:28:58,019
representation of the data. It's a much better,

743
00:28:58,019 --> 00:29:00,759
more accurate, more precise representation of the data,

744
00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:03,619
which can only serve to amplify our ability

745
00:29:03,619 --> 00:29:04,680
to perform calculations.

746
00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:07,875
I see. And I I wanted to also

747
00:29:07,875 --> 00:29:08,855
ask you about,

748
00:29:09,555 --> 00:29:12,515
Oak Ridge's work in coming up with ways

749
00:29:12,515 --> 00:29:13,654
to use existing

750
00:29:14,275 --> 00:29:15,654
fiber optic infrastructure

751
00:29:16,355 --> 00:29:19,235
to create a quantum Internet that,

752
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,140
I suppose would allow quantum computers to be

753
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:25,840
connected to each other and quantum information to

754
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,640
be sent over long distances. Can you can

755
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,200
you talk a bit about that research? What

756
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,059
what what are the challenges of using

757
00:29:33,525 --> 00:29:34,744
existing infrastructure?

758
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:37,365
And, what what what are people at Oak

759
00:29:37,365 --> 00:29:39,305
Ridge doing to overcome those challenges?

760
00:29:41,125 --> 00:29:44,585
Integrating quantum technologies into our existing infrastructure

761
00:29:45,125 --> 00:29:46,904
is anything but straightforward.

762
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,240
We, of course, have to deal with the

763
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,279
fact that the interface to the the worlds

764
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:54,619
of quantum and classical mechanics are,

765
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,220
very different from each other.

766
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,099
The quantum state is kind of the

767
00:30:02,105 --> 00:30:05,164
most important object to be maintained and preserved

768
00:30:05,224 --> 00:30:07,384
through all of this sensing and computing and

769
00:30:07,384 --> 00:30:07,884
transmission,

770
00:30:08,424 --> 00:30:08,924
processes.

771
00:30:09,945 --> 00:30:13,404
And that interface now with our hybrid infrastructure

772
00:30:13,625 --> 00:30:16,265
means that we've developed ways to not only

773
00:30:16,265 --> 00:30:19,380
move the information around, but to also transduce

774
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:21,380
it from one medium to the other.

775
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:23,920
And here you can think about the idea

776
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,880
that if I've stored some information in the

777
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,660
electronic spin of a material,

778
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,220
but I wanna somehow move that information

779
00:30:31,599 --> 00:30:32,900
over to the

780
00:30:35,144 --> 00:30:37,545
electronic spin of an ion that's been trapped

781
00:30:37,545 --> 00:30:39,164
in a quantum computer somewhere,

782
00:30:39,545 --> 00:30:41,325
I have to have some way of transducing

783
00:30:42,025 --> 00:30:44,845
the information into, let's say, an optical carrier,

784
00:30:45,704 --> 00:30:48,265
that can move the information from one location

785
00:30:48,265 --> 00:30:48,869
to the other.

786
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:51,430
That's all very technical sounding, but what I'm

787
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:52,650
trying to say is that

788
00:30:53,109 --> 00:30:53,769
the ability

789
00:30:54,150 --> 00:30:57,109
to move quantum information from one location to

790
00:30:57,109 --> 00:30:57,609
another

791
00:30:57,990 --> 00:30:59,029
has very many,

792
00:30:59,430 --> 00:31:01,005
technology demands on it

793
00:31:01,484 --> 00:31:02,944
in addition to the fact

794
00:31:03,325 --> 00:31:06,625
that we already have a very well developed

795
00:31:06,684 --> 00:31:08,464
and well supported infrastructure

796
00:31:09,404 --> 00:31:10,625
that needs to accommodate

797
00:31:11,085 --> 00:31:12,384
those types of new technologies.

798
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,299
Here at Oak Ridge, we have a specific

799
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:17,440
interest in how can we use our existing

800
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:17,940
infrastructure

801
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,019
and build upon that to create this hybrid

802
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:23,059
quantum ecosystem.

803
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,659
We currently have the Department of Energy's

804
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,819
largest fiber based network,

805
00:31:29,224 --> 00:31:31,785
over 300 kilometers of fiber that can be

806
00:31:31,785 --> 00:31:32,285
used

807
00:31:32,664 --> 00:31:35,644
for testing and evaluating transmission protocols.

808
00:31:36,105 --> 00:31:37,805
These are using some of the same,

809
00:31:40,744 --> 00:31:42,825
sources and transmitters that we would use for,

810
00:31:42,825 --> 00:31:43,964
say, sensor development.

811
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:47,190
But now we can channel them into the

812
00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:48,970
transmission across long distances.

813
00:31:49,670 --> 00:31:52,170
That allows us to create a distributed network

814
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:54,870
where sensors are in one location, computers are

815
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:57,190
in another, perhaps the end user is in

816
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:59,775
a third, And that type of hybrid environment,

817
00:31:59,775 --> 00:32:02,194
that hybrid infrastructure becomes very important

818
00:32:02,575 --> 00:32:03,634
to thinking about

819
00:32:04,095 --> 00:32:06,835
what does a future laboratory look like

820
00:32:07,134 --> 00:32:09,634
that is fully integrated with quantum technology.

821
00:32:10,255 --> 00:32:11,855
What are all of the pieces that have

822
00:32:11,855 --> 00:32:13,634
to come together, they have to converge

823
00:32:14,069 --> 00:32:16,490
in order to support that type of infrastructure?

824
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:19,210
So our our work developing,

825
00:32:19,589 --> 00:32:20,309
fiber based,

826
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:23,990
communication systems, this type of quantum Internet is

827
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:26,009
an important part of, that development.

828
00:32:27,829 --> 00:32:30,134
I see. And and finally, Travis, I'd like

829
00:32:30,134 --> 00:32:32,615
you to, to get out your quantum crystal

830
00:32:32,615 --> 00:32:33,115
ball

831
00:32:33,575 --> 00:32:35,835
and maybe have a look in the future

832
00:32:36,294 --> 00:32:38,075
at quantum science and technology

833
00:32:38,375 --> 00:32:40,934
at Oak Ridge. What, what what do you

834
00:32:40,934 --> 00:32:42,500
see coming up in

835
00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:46,420
the near future and I suppose further ahead?

836
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:47,220
Are there any

837
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:49,599
exciting projects that are being planned at the

838
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:50,099
moment?

839
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,619
Is ground being broken on any new facilities?

840
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,440
What can we look forward to from Oak

841
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:56,984
Ridge and in the quantum world?

842
00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:02,484
You know, the past five years have been

843
00:33:02,484 --> 00:33:06,005
a series of remarkable advances in quantum science

844
00:33:06,005 --> 00:33:06,664
and technology,

845
00:33:06,964 --> 00:33:08,884
both at Oak Ridge and, I would say,

846
00:33:08,884 --> 00:33:10,664
more broadly around the planet.

847
00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:12,349
What is

848
00:33:12,730 --> 00:33:15,210
very exciting, though, is that we have only

849
00:33:15,210 --> 00:33:18,750
seen the pace of innovation and development increase

850
00:33:19,130 --> 00:33:22,009
over these five years. So I anticipate that

851
00:33:22,009 --> 00:33:24,089
the next five years is going to see

852
00:33:24,089 --> 00:33:25,710
that increase even further.

853
00:33:26,184 --> 00:33:28,744
We will see technology scale up. We will

854
00:33:28,744 --> 00:33:30,424
see the number of qubits that are being

855
00:33:30,424 --> 00:33:31,565
developed become,

856
00:33:32,184 --> 00:33:32,684
larger,

857
00:33:33,065 --> 00:33:33,805
higher fidelity,

858
00:33:34,184 --> 00:33:34,664
better,

859
00:33:35,305 --> 00:33:36,525
integrated, more sophisticated

860
00:33:36,825 --> 00:33:37,325
operations.

861
00:33:38,105 --> 00:33:38,605
That

862
00:33:38,904 --> 00:33:41,609
course opens us up to a whole new

863
00:33:41,609 --> 00:33:44,730
set of products and services, including quantum computers

864
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:47,149
that can start to routinely reach

865
00:33:47,450 --> 00:33:49,929
what we would call quantum advantage, you know,

866
00:33:49,929 --> 00:33:50,429
surpassing

867
00:33:50,970 --> 00:33:52,809
the best calculations that we think we can

868
00:33:52,809 --> 00:33:55,325
do today with high performance computing systems.

869
00:33:56,105 --> 00:33:56,845
In addition,

870
00:33:57,224 --> 00:33:59,224
as we start to integrate these types of

871
00:33:59,224 --> 00:33:59,724
capabilities

872
00:34:00,025 --> 00:34:01,164
into our infrastructure,

873
00:34:01,945 --> 00:34:03,404
we'll see that convergence

874
00:34:03,865 --> 00:34:06,285
of the quantum and classical ideas occur

875
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,280
so that we can think about quantum high

876
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,280
performance computers or quantum sensors connecting into these

877
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:14,179
quantum computers

878
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,039
and, of course, the security overall of that,

879
00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:20,340
network by using these quantum transmission protocols.

880
00:34:21,164 --> 00:34:23,164
Here at Oak Ridge, we've got the Quantum

881
00:34:23,164 --> 00:34:25,644
Science Center, which is going up for another

882
00:34:25,644 --> 00:34:27,025
five years of activity.

883
00:34:27,405 --> 00:34:29,485
We've got the Q Cup program that only

884
00:34:29,485 --> 00:34:31,005
continues to grow its,

885
00:34:31,485 --> 00:34:32,545
its user base.

886
00:34:33,179 --> 00:34:35,760
All of that is being supported by a

887
00:34:35,820 --> 00:34:37,519
recently opened building,

888
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:41,199
called the Translational Research Capability Building or TRC.

889
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:44,219
That building has actually been developed over the

890
00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:45,599
the last several years

891
00:34:45,914 --> 00:34:47,375
to specifically house,

892
00:34:48,315 --> 00:34:51,035
the very sensitive instruments and experiments that we

893
00:34:51,035 --> 00:34:52,175
wanna do in quantum

894
00:34:53,434 --> 00:34:56,635
materials, quantum optics, quantum computing, all of these

895
00:34:56,635 --> 00:34:57,535
different areas.

896
00:34:58,110 --> 00:35:00,750
So we're already seeing the Department of Energy

897
00:35:00,750 --> 00:35:02,289
and Oak Ridge National Laboratory

898
00:35:02,829 --> 00:35:05,950
make plans for this future convergence of quantum

899
00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:07,809
and and and conventional methods.

900
00:35:08,510 --> 00:35:10,990
But what I think is probably more important

901
00:35:10,990 --> 00:35:11,864
to all of that

902
00:35:12,425 --> 00:35:14,764
mirrors the conversation we had at the beginning

903
00:35:14,905 --> 00:35:16,045
about unique capabilities

904
00:35:16,905 --> 00:35:18,764
and the role that personnel play.

905
00:35:19,465 --> 00:35:22,125
Because the other thing that is most important

906
00:35:22,184 --> 00:35:23,485
in the next five years

907
00:35:23,945 --> 00:35:25,324
is building out partnerships

908
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:28,500
between industry and academia and the other national

909
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:29,000
labs

910
00:35:29,539 --> 00:35:30,280
to support

911
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:32,200
what these types of capabilities

912
00:35:32,820 --> 00:35:34,119
can lead to.

913
00:35:34,579 --> 00:35:37,619
Oak Ridge is especially interested in developing that

914
00:35:37,619 --> 00:35:39,480
type of partnership, that type of network

915
00:35:39,924 --> 00:35:42,085
so that we can amplify the impact that

916
00:35:42,085 --> 00:35:42,744
we have,

917
00:35:43,204 --> 00:35:44,105
both in terms

918
00:35:44,885 --> 00:35:46,885
of how do we create the technology, how

919
00:35:46,885 --> 00:35:49,065
do we overcome these scientific challenges,

920
00:35:49,525 --> 00:35:51,525
but also in terms of the adoption of

921
00:35:51,525 --> 00:35:54,480
that technology and its application to what I

922
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,260
would consider real world

923
00:35:56,559 --> 00:35:57,300
use cases,

924
00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:01,139
scientific discovery, economic advantage, and national security.

925
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:03,039
All of these will continue to be a

926
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:05,440
priority over the the next five years, the

927
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:06,179
next decade,

928
00:36:06,714 --> 00:36:09,454
And it will be a very exciting experience

929
00:36:09,835 --> 00:36:11,375
to watch the transformations

930
00:36:11,675 --> 00:36:12,494
that are happening,

931
00:36:12,795 --> 00:36:14,474
not just here at Oak Ridge, but around

932
00:36:14,474 --> 00:36:15,135
the world

933
00:36:15,514 --> 00:36:18,734
in the development, the maturity, and the breakthroughs,

934
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,500
in this this particular field.

935
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:24,619
Well, that's great. That sounds very exciting and

936
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,680
lots of work to be done by you

937
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,840
and your colleagues, which is which is good

938
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:29,340
news.

939
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,800
So thanks, Travis. Thanks so much for coming

940
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,404
on the podcast and talking to us about

941
00:36:34,404 --> 00:36:37,045
all things quantum at the Oak Ridge National

942
00:36:37,045 --> 00:36:39,304
Lab. Thank you, Hamish. It's been a pleasure.

943
00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:49,180
I'm afraid that's all the time we have

944
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:51,900
for this week's podcast, which is supported by

945
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:53,039
American Elements.

946
00:36:53,500 --> 00:36:56,539
Thanks to Travis Humble for his insights into

947
00:36:56,539 --> 00:36:58,239
quantum research and development

948
00:36:58,619 --> 00:37:01,605
at Oak Ridge National Lab, and a special

949
00:37:01,605 --> 00:37:02,824
thanks to our producer,

950
00:37:03,204 --> 00:37:04,105
Fred Isles.

951
00:37:12,644 --> 00:37:14,985
This podcast is brought to you by American

952
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953
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960
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American Elements is the largest supplier of its

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974
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981
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983
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