Daboll out as Giants Coach and Burrow Practicing with Ian Rapoport

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome to NFL Daily, where fourth and goal at the half yard line is an automatic go for us forever.

00:00:12
Speaker 2: I am Greg Rosendal.

00:00:13
Speaker 1: I am here in my garage for a surprise podcast. It's not an emergency podcast. There's no emergency happening here, but there is some news. New York Giants have fired Brian Dabole on Monday morning, and we are joined by none other than NFL Network Grand puba insider, Ian Rappaport to help us break down the news.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: Ian, where you surprise that it happened?

00:00:38
Speaker 3: Now?

00:00:40
Speaker 4: I was not surprised.

00:00:40
Speaker 3: Now.

00:00:41
Speaker 5: I would say, you know, once the questions start, there's really only two ways to handle it, right, And I think everyone you look on the field, you can hear all the stuff, but really the product is what it is on the field, right. And so we've there's been rumors about Brian Dabele and a potential firing for quite a while, and then you see how the player react. And it was another lead, it was another game that they had in hand on the road, and then it was another inexplicable collapse.

00:01:07
Speaker 4: Plus Jackson Dark got hurt.

00:01:09
Speaker 5: So I think this is the kind of thing that you know, for me, was on my radar all morning, knowing that for sure it could be a possibility. It makes sense, and I think once you know, look, no one wants to do this during the season, right, It doesn't doesn't help. It only makes the season just a lost season. Nobody wants to do it during the season.

00:01:30
Speaker 4: But once you know that you're going to fire him, just do it, right. I mean, just there's timing.

00:01:37
Speaker 5: Is always bad, everything's always bad. Just make it clean, break and move on. So yeah, I mean, I would say it was not a surprise. And unfortunately, because Brian Davie was a really good guy, probably what was necessary.

00:01:56
Speaker 1: He chose to kick a field goal. Like like I mentioned, it was fourth and goal at the one. They were up seven in the fourth quarter. We talked about it in a recapture. It's just a sad way to go out. Unfortunately, their defense had been struggling overall, but they had had a great game through three quarters. They get a penalty on that potential field goal, they hit the field goal, and they decide not to take the penalty would have been from the half yard line, and then they blow the lead in a few days later, it's gone.

00:02:23
Speaker 2: I did notice a beat writer.

00:02:24
Speaker 1: I think it was Pat Leonard, excuse me if I'm wrong, said, you know, one of the things that could get Dable fired before the bye week, let's say, because they have three tough games before their bye week, was getting Jackson Dart hurt. And I do wonder if the four concussion tests that he has done in his brief time as a starter and then being ruled out with a concussion in this game after running again and again and taking some big hits, some of that is on Dart not protecting himself, but some of that is on Dable. How do you think like the Jackson Dart equation played into this because you know, one thing I think people said to make the case for DA balls, you don't want to take away Jackson starts, you know, coach when he's good with quarterbacks and he's off to a good start.

00:03:06
Speaker 2: In his career. How do you think that worked out when when making this decision.

00:03:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't think Brian Dayball got Jackson Dart hurt.

00:03:13
Speaker 5: I think he got hurt because football is a violent game and people unfortunately sometimes get hurt. I mean, there's been plenty of really good coaches who have not been able to get quarterbacks to slide instead of Harm's way. I don't know that that's Brian Dayball's fault and.

00:03:31
Speaker 4: I don't know that.

00:03:32
Speaker 5: I mean whether or not Jackson Darts starts the next game, Like, to me, that wouldn't change the trajectory of the Giant season. Like there's been so many games that have followed the same script that it's like, what could I have seen? You know, what could I have seen that would make me say, like, all right, well now because he got Dart injured, therefore fire him. It's like, no, you know, look, the development of quarterback is always the most important. And yes, Jackson Dart has looked very good in Brian dabols system. We are going to see what he looks like with Mike Kafka, because this is a little bit of a tryout to challenge, but a little bit of a try it And I'm sure Kafka will get interviews. Interim coaches always get interviews, and you know, we'll kind of see what he looks like in the same system with a different head coach. I would also say that, you know, as we look at this thing, I mean, you have you know, obviously the Titans and Giants is the only job that's open. There's a couple other possibilities in Miami who seem but a lot better this week. That's a possibility. There's some other possibilities. But this is a really good job. I mean, Jackson Dart is someone who with the right coach and system and you know, infrastructure around him, has proven that he can be a guy.

00:04:52
Speaker 4: And so if you're you know, a young.

00:04:55
Speaker 5: Head coach, a retread head coach who wants another shot, really anyone like this, this would be a job you want because you don't have to search for a quarterback.

00:05:04
Speaker 4: You have a quarterback.

00:05:05
Speaker 1: It's a great call in terms of Jackson Dart is such a great starting point. Like in that game yesterday in particular, although he's looked good overall, I was really impressed.

00:05:16
Speaker 2: And it's not just his running ability.

00:05:18
Speaker 1: And I do think you can get on Dable a little bit for running like QB power a few times it's like they're building their offense around him running the ball quite a bit. But he did more things throwing the ball in that game and has looked better than I would have ever expected. In to buttress your point, Ian, there's a great word Buttress, got Jackson Dart, got a top five NFL left tackle in Andrew Thomas. You have Malik Neighbors coming off of an injury next year, But you have Milik Neighbors, and you have a defensive line where Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, and Abdul Carter are all signed through at least twenty twenty seven. You even have Caven Thibodeau next year still too. For a renovation project, that's pretty good, especially because of Dark Now, I will put to you I have my own opinions on this, but I'm cure curious if you have a feeling of how the Giants want to operate. Do you think it's gonna be a full rebuild with a new front office helping to choose a new head coach, or do you think Joe Shane, who was brought in at the same time as Brian Dable, could potentially survive this or even as likely to survive this and still be running the team in twenty twenty six.

00:06:32
Speaker 4: Well, there's been no changes other than Brian Dabel.

00:06:36
Speaker 6: Now.

00:06:36
Speaker 5: Historically, when you have a major move, it's either one or both. It's rarely we did see you do see it sometimes we saw it with Jacksonville last year and what I would consider to be extenuating circumstances. But almost always the changes happen and then it's about the next it's about moving on, it's about fixing and all that. So, you know, I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'd be surprised if they made a change a general manager.

00:07:05
Speaker 4: You know, they didn't.

00:07:06
Speaker 5: They didn't come in as a package deal, but essentially they did come in together. You know, I would say, allowing a GM to make more than one coaching hire is what most organizations do. Like rarely you bring in a guy, you package them together, and then you say, all right, you're done. You don't get the chance to hire a head coach, so generally you do. I would also say, you know, as a GM, like really what you want to do, it's not just about collecting talent, because I think that's important.

00:07:35
Speaker 4: That's not the job. It's building a team.

00:07:38
Speaker 5: And I would say at least what Joe Shane has done is built enough talent to win. It has not been a cohesive team, so like they have not been you know, they have not won a lot of games, but the people have spoken with like that defense should be a lot better.

00:07:56
Speaker 4: They got a lot of talent on the defense.

00:07:58
Speaker 5: I know there was a lot of discussion about moving on from their defensive coordinator this past offseason. I know Brian Dable didn't want to do it, and they ended up not doing it. Would they be better with a different DC, I think possibly, But to the based on the people have spoke with, they believe there was more than enough talent on that roster to win, certainly more than enough talent to be two and eight.

00:08:22
Speaker 1: It's really interesting having gotten a peek into the Giants front office with that hard knocks, and I don't think personally Joe Shane came off incredible in that, not just in terms of the decisions letting Xavier McKinney and Saquon Barkley, but just you weren't watching that and feel like you were seeing you know, nineteen sixties Red hourback or anything like that.

00:08:42
Speaker 2: And since since janior.

00:08:44
Speaker 5: I would say let me just interrupt to I would just say those conversation like that feel was pretty normal, Like.

00:08:54
Speaker 4: That's what it sounds like, you know, Like yes, I mean I.

00:08:59
Speaker 1: Heard from some people in the league that we're kind of like these are the conversations. We're glad we're we're competing against these guys.

00:09:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't get that, And I talked to a lot of gms.

00:09:09
Speaker 2: You talked to a lot more than me.

00:09:11
Speaker 4: Let's be ir Yeah, so I didn't get that.

00:09:13
Speaker 5: Now, the decisions, like Saquon went on to be an MVP candidate, would he have been a candidate with the Giants?

00:09:20
Speaker 4: Like, I don't think so.

00:09:21
Speaker 5: The offensive line's a lot worse, like they spent the money elsewhere, Like there are different arguments to be made, but I don't think that, Like the hard knocks maybe looked bad to the public because you let Seguon go and then he plays so great, But I don't get the sense that really altered Joe Shane's actual job status.

00:09:41
Speaker 2: No, I hear that to me.

00:09:43
Speaker 1: Sometimes it was more about just like when they were talking about Brian Burns and you know they pop in there like, hey, he had a lot. You know, they're like counting up the quarterback hits and stuff, and just like, isn't there didn't there something more there here? I'll just give you some record, some numbers though. Okay, you mentioned the four double digit losses on the road this year, which is crazy. Yeah, Dables, Giants have crazy, by the way, been just crazy. Really bad luck too, but also just crazy. Twenty ninth in scoring since he arrived. Since the day they went to Philadelphia Ian for the divisional round of the playoffs in January of twenty twenty three, not that long ago, the Giants have gone eleven and thirty four since they hired Brian Dable and Joe Shane. They have the fourth worst record in football. Since they won the Super Bowl against the Patriots, they have won the third least amount of games, So Giants are thirtieth, Browns and Jets are two wins behind. And if you break it down, if you start like since they fired Coughlin's second worst since McAdoo, fourth worst since Shermer, second worst since Judge, fourth worst, like, they have consistently been a bottom five franchise.

00:10:50
Speaker 2: Which is crazy to say.

00:10:52
Speaker 1: Has felt like that, I guess so, but it's just like you, the Giants ownership has been getting a lot of I think, benefit of the doubt for a long time for being good ownership because of what happened, you know, before the last twelve years. But the reality is they have not made a good decision, And personally, I do think it's cleaner when you have a full teardown and the GM and the coach are starting at the same time.

00:11:15
Speaker 2: But we'll see if you tend to think that, yeah, we'll do that.

00:11:18
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't, And I also am not sure that's true. And the reason why I would say that is because it's a hard job and at the beginning a lot of people are not good at It's just it's really hard. Like I'll give you another example. The Commander's right, great offseason last year. Everything that Adam Peters did work right. I mean they had the second pick of quarterback. Now both them, you know, Caleb Williams and Jane Danels are both looking good now, but they had the second pick of quarterback. And every every veteran that Adam Peters brought in worked and they went deep into the playoffs. This year, everything has been bad the whole every move. It seems like veterans are looking lower. Some of the high price additions they made have not worked. Like, now, does that mean Adam Peters as bad as No, It's like these are hard jobs, these are huge decisions, and people make mistakes and I think the only way to really get better unless you just have a Ferrari that you just get behind the wheel of and you're like ready to roll, you know, which there's a couple of those.

00:12:25
Speaker 4: They're really hard. And my sense is, considering.

00:12:30
Speaker 5: That he's built a ton of team with a lot of talent, and considering he has the experience of making mistakes over the last three years, it feels like they will be better off with Joe Shane as GM than you know, someone else who does not have this experience, because historically there's almost no retread GMS.

00:12:49
Speaker 4: It just doesn't happen.

00:12:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think look, if you look at some of the drafts there with them, they've had been pretty big swings and missus too. They had Evan Neil was their first draft pick in the MIDI. They had Deonday Banks, which is a pretty big miss. Last year's class which looked really good last year looks solid. But you know, Tyler Newbin, Drew who is it in the back end, Drew Phillips.

00:13:13
Speaker 5: You know, they've they've been okay, like Neighbors. You know, injuries happen, but Neighbors doesn't get injured. That's looking like a win. So it's like there's it's like it's like, you know, not everyone can be like like the Browns draft class they are like all going to be good this year.

00:13:28
Speaker 4: Like that's you know, like they can't all be like that.

00:13:30
Speaker 5: But anyway, my general argument, not just as it pertains to Joe Shane, is unless it's like two systems clashing where the guys a total jerk and a head coach refuses to work with him, which is not the case here, I think they'll be better off having a GM.

00:13:51
Speaker 4: Who's been through it.

00:13:52
Speaker 5: He's put enough talent on the field and will work with the next head coach that he will help high That is my general thought.

00:13:57
Speaker 1: Mike Kafka and yeah, you mentioned I should have, but you know you're the real newsman. I should have mentioned it right off the top of Mike Kafka is the interim head coach. They did not fire Shane Bowen, who's their defensive coordinator, and Kafka's gotten a lot of head coaching interviews over the last three or four years. He had his time in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes. It could be interesting to see what he does because the number one thing I would think they're looking for out of a head coach is who can maximize Jackson Dart. And that's why I do compare it a little bit to the Drake May situation a year ago. I think Drake May physically was more obviously going to be a dude. That's my own personal bias. I thought that before the Patriots took him. But Jackson Dart has played to a level where he looks like a dude as well, So everything should be about maximizing Jackson Dart will rap at least on the Giants just with do you think if he has a realistic chance to maybe be the dude Mike.

00:14:51
Speaker 4: Kafka, Uh yeah, I kind of do.

00:14:55
Speaker 5: And it's been interesting because, like, on one hand, he's Brian Dables guy they able hired him, but he's not only Brian Daboles guy. He's been in a lot of different places. He is a good enough leader, he has you know, sort of done it, like the league has done a good job of putting guys in position to lead, Like he's done the Senior Bowl, you know, and like coach to the Senior Bowl, like and from what I was told, got pretty good reviews doing it.

00:15:21
Speaker 4: So like I think he does have a chance.

00:15:25
Speaker 5: Now, it'd be a surprise because it almost never happens. But like he's well, he's he's well thought of as a as a off it'sive coordinator. He has had head coach interviews. I think in particular in Seattle he did really well. Didn't get it, but did well. So I do think he has a chance and probably you know, probably should.

00:15:48
Speaker 2: Mm before I let you go, since you're here. It's been a while.

00:15:52
Speaker 1: By the way, if you go back to like the early NFL daily days, I mean rap sheet was on there all the time. But now now he's on NFL Network. You he's always always been on a villa. He's on pass back of fee probably right now.

00:16:02
Speaker 4: I always come on when I always come on when I'm asked.

00:16:05
Speaker 1: You really do you're the man you broke the news that, or at least you were the first one I saw that Joe Burrow is back at practice this week.

00:16:13
Speaker 2: Is there is there.

00:16:14
Speaker 1: Anything to I mean, it's November tenth, Uh they started his activation. That even if he joins the team and plays at the end of that activation, which I would think is possible, that's earlier than I expected. What what can you tell us about Joe Burrow before you go off into wherever the insiders hide during the day.

00:16:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty cool news, I have to say.

00:16:35
Speaker 5: For the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, it's it really I'm not there and they're about to go on the practice field in a couple of minutes as we're taping this now. But you know, you talk about a dude like that, guy's a dude, and for him to be out on the practice field like that is going to give them the kind of balance that you can't manufacture.

00:16:54
Speaker 4: Manufacture.

00:16:55
Speaker 5: They have been you know, they've won some games. They're not out of it, are I think three and six.

00:17:01
Speaker 4: Right, isn't that the record?

00:17:02
Speaker 2: Three and three and six?

00:17:03
Speaker 3: Yes, this week, if they can, you know, come out and play well enough, maybe win a game or two, God forbid, they go two and one over the next three games, Like Joe Burrow could be back with a chance to help this team get to the playoffs.

00:17:18
Speaker 4: Like it's crazy, but it's not that crazy.

00:17:21
Speaker 5: And like I would also say this three and six, like you, it's uphill battle, but you got a chance. I think he would probably be back almost anyway, Like I just I don't know that it was ever a decision. I think it was like, as soon as I can come back, I'm coming back.

00:17:40
Speaker 4: And that is pretty cool.

00:17:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, by by all accounts, in terms of how they run the offense, maybe even how they're deciding to sign people. I mean, he's kind of the boss and he should be. I mean, he's the most important person in the organization and if he wants to play, they're not gonna stop. You don't think there's any chance of like him playing Sunday?

00:17:58
Speaker 2: Do you not?

00:17:59
Speaker 4: Sunday? Now? I have to look at the schedule.

00:18:02
Speaker 2: It's the Patriots the week after the problem is and.

00:18:05
Speaker 4: It makes Sunday Sunday.

00:18:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, They're all Sundays coming up, and then a Thursday, sorry on Thanksgiving.

00:18:12
Speaker 6: That would be interesting. Wait a minutes Thanksgiving night. I mean that's how many days eighteen days from now? Yes, possible, That's crazy and possible.

00:18:26
Speaker 4: Now.

00:18:26
Speaker 1: It kind of breaks my heart though, that they blew the Jets game and the Bears game because Wacko played so well, and if they had just won one of those two, hell, if they had won both those, they'd be five and four and Joe Burrow coming back in a few weeks.

00:18:40
Speaker 2: Like they could afford to lose.

00:18:41
Speaker 1: Because their schedule gets tougher now and it really it bums me out that they could be three and eight.

00:18:47
Speaker 4: But we'll see because you know, he comes back again.

00:18:52
Speaker 5: Like say they go two and one. So let's say they're five and seven.

00:18:57
Speaker 2: Sure, five and seconds nut scenario.

00:19:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got a chance, but you're also playing the Steelers, the Patriots, the Ravens, the Bills, the Ravens in the next five weeks. So they kind of just got through the easy part of their schedule. Unfortunately they got some tough ones, but they could take out Pittsburgh. Appreciate you making the time on a busy day.

00:19:16
Speaker 2: Ian. You're more than just an insider.

00:19:19
Speaker 1: You're a man, you're a husband, you're a father, and you're a friend.

00:19:25
Speaker 2: We've known each other a long time.

00:19:26
Speaker 4: Now we know each other a long time.

00:19:27
Speaker 1: We've been through a lot. I appreciate you and we will be back tonight. By the way, this is a surprise episode, so we would back join us YouTube live after Eagles and Packers.

00:19:38
Speaker 2: Me and Pick Shook. We will see you the