Current State of WWE: Is John Cena Really The Greatest of All Time? Why Cody vs Roman is Not The Better Option

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is w BB superstar Drew McIntyre and you're listening to the w w E podcast.
Stop the show but one that everybody wants me Godote three sixteen says,
just clipt your ass. This is my art. You're gonna acknownlage me.
It's Monday night, guys. That means it's time for the current state of
w w E with Anthony to Marco every single Monday night, and you guys,
as always can catch Anthony on the after Dark show that chops every single
Friday Friday evening Friday night somewhere around that time, and it's a great listen.
We've had a couple of episodes. I'd highly recommend that you go listen
to it. Not for the family, but very much an entertaining show.
And today we've got some entertaining topics, as you'd imagine. But how you
doing, Anthony. I think we're gonna get into a little bit of sena
and then, of course are one of our favorite topics of Cody Rhodes and
in Roman rates favorite tart picks. You should go over to listen to after
Dark on the Patreon SmackDown tier higher to really figure out how much I love
talking about Cody Rhodes. What a hook, No and uncensored so that that
makes it even better where there's just there's no there's no handcuffs, there's no
muzzle, it's all just out there. So yeah, check it out,
guys. But let's let's before we talk about that and dive deep into some
some of those arguments that Cody should be the one to face Roman and not
the rock. I do want to talk about John Cena and WWE has now
labeled him kind of out of nowhere. At one point he was one of
the greatest of all time, and now it's actually part of his ring entrance.
It's it's now we are told he is the greatest of all time,
not that he's one of so apparently w W E on their own decided to
just anoint him as the greatest of all time, which is not there or
call, by the way, it's the fans call. But nonetheless, what
do you think about that? And we'll get into John Cena's path maybe forward
in storyline, but just that particular part about him being called the greatest of
all time by w W how do you feel about it? You know,
it screams Vince mcmah and I think they started calling him that when he returned
in twenty twenty one, right, I think when he returned a feud with
Roman that culminated SummerSlam two thousand and one, right when they came out of
the pandemic era and the Thunderdome era. And you know, I have a
very weird, not even weird, I guess, a unique stance when it
comes to John Cena, because I don't hate him as much as most people
do in terms of when he was you know, to coin what Sha McMahon
said, the face that runs the place or the face that ran the place.
I mean, he wasn't my favorite, but I didn't despise him,
maybe as much as you did or others did. I always really respected him,
and maybe that kind of counteracted maybe me not being the biggest fan of
his character. But I do think that there is an element of John Cena
that has always kind of made me think and consider, like is he the
greatest of all time? And usually I land on no, I usually come
back to Stone Cold Steve Austin, but I do probably have John c on
my Mount Rushmore and I always am left thinking like is he like could he
be? And I think that's because and we saw it in his promo on
SmackDown to open the show, is that there are elements to John Cena that
could have made him the greatest of all time, like had he shown up
in nineteen ninety seven, Like let's say John Cena's ten years year older than
he is, or five years even, and he showed up in nineteen ninety
seven in the Ruthless Aggression era, or hell, what if he had reached
his main event level status in two thousand and two and he was a main
event or during the peak of the Ruthless Aggressionaire Obviously he got to that peak
at the tail end of Ruthless Aggression in April two thousand and five at rest
of my twenty one and he kind of took them out of it. But
what if he was there right during the peak of an O two oh three
oh four, could he have been the greatest of all time? And look,
obviously I always come back to know, but I do think that there
are elements of him and characteristics of him. And you've mentioned it before that
when he is serious, John Cena, especially on the microphone, he really
is a badass and he is second to none, and even people who make
fun of him for his in ring ability or lack there of five Moons moves
of doom like we've seen John Cenago, like his trilogy of matches with aj
Styles in sixteen seventeen, those were some of the best matches I've ever seen.
I think the Royal Rumble twenty seventeen match for the w w E Championship
the last time you won a World Title was probably one of the best matches
I've seen between in ring ability and just overall all psychology of the match.
So I do think that there is a part of John Cena that can leave
one debating whether or not he is the greatest of all time. It is
they, you know, no matter what arguments that we present on either side
of the aisle, it's going to be a subjective discussion, and there is
no right or wrong answer. To me, it's just very jarring that the
company is telling us who's the greatest of all time. Typically it's a fan
discussion, it's a fan debate. I don't recall anyone ever being introduced like
that. It's typically welcome, hall of famer whoever, And that makes sense.
They're a Hall of famer, they're by definition one of the greatest of
all time if you're in the Hall of Fame. But it also depends on
how you define what great is like. If you if you define great as
you know, who made you feel the most emotion, who you related to
the most, well, that's going to vary from person to person. If
you're going to define them as dollars and cents, that's more objective, But
most people don't know those numbers and figures, and most people as fans don't
care about how much money they typically technically brought into the company. You know,
But is it longevity, well, longevity, I mean Dolph Ziggler lasted
twenty years. Are we going to say he's the greatest of all time?
You know? And like it's probably it's a combination of things, you know.
I would I would think most people would believe that's a commodation of things.
But I mean, I do I think he's the greatest of all time.
No, I don't. I think he is not the greatest of all
time in my book, But I would agree that you could argue he's on
the Mount Rushmore of of wrestling. And I have no problem with that because
he had a massive impact at a time when the company was transitioning from TV
TV fourteen to TV PG. He is the face of the PG era.
I didn't like his baby face character, not to the extent of Cody Rhodes.
And we'll get there. I actually I think Cody Rhodes is even It's
it's like the John c the worst of John Cena on steroids, snow pun
intended. And again we'll talk about that in a few minutes. But I
right now, I just don't think I would define John Cena to me as
the single greatest of all time. You know, I always come back to
Stone Cold, as you mentioned to me, he is the greatest of all
time in my mind, because you could argue, and a lot of wrestlers
have been there longer than he has. They burned hot long, much much
after Austin left, before he was there, But no one burned hotter than
Stone Cold. To this day, no one burned hotter. And to me
that those years that he was active in wrestling from ninety seven to two thousand
and three were magical years in which he single handedly transformed the company. So
I mean, that's me, That's how I feel about it. And so
no, I would not define John Cena as the greatest of all time,
but he is certainly one of and you're right to your point. When he's
serious, he's great on the microphone. When he's trying to be funny,
he's at his absolute worst, like he is completely bipolar. In my mind,
of okay, I can get behind this John Cina. He can destroy
people on the microphone. He is one of the greatest and maybe in my
mind the greatest of all time on the microphone in some respects. But when
he gets all joky, funny, halfheartedly, who we're here to entertain you
all this crap like that stuff, When he's kind of breaking the fourth wall
all the time and just trying to be, you know, a jokester,
it's the worst version of him in my mind. But let's say that John
Cena had been brought along in early Ruth's aggression or attitude era, based on
how much you've given praise to the serious version of John Cina, maybe the
John Cina that faced HBK at wrestling at twenty three, or the John Cina
who defeated JBL for the ww Championship for the first time of wrestling at twenty
one, or the John Cina that staff against aj Styles in twenty sixteen,
twenty seventeen. Do you think that had they booked him differently, because Vince
McMann has a lot to do with this, right and the pg era and
him appealing to younger audience, which obviously they tried to spearhead in two thousand
and seven two thousand and eight when they transition to to the PGI era,
away from TV fourteen. Do you think, based on what you've seen from
John Cena that he could have maybe been the greatest of all time had they
kind of taken off the cuffs for a lack of better words, he would
have fit in any era. I mean, he is that talented. I
mean, again, as we mentioned, he came in when he did with
the ruthless Aggression era when it was in full force. But if he had
came in just three four four years earlier when things were red hot, the
business was never hotter and hasn't been that hot since. If he had come
in during that time, again, all things being equal, where he comes
in as say, the doctor of Thugonomics, he's rapping. I still believe
even if they brought him in at that time, he would have initially gotten
booed because he's the new guy. He's running down the baby faces, he's
working with Austin, he's working with Rock. But the same thing would have
happened. I think that happened in O two oh three, where he became
extremely entertaining. Even though he's running down your baby faces, he's so damn
good at it that you start to appreciate it, and you start to get
behind him. So I think the same dynamic would have happened. I'm just
not sure how the Attitude era of fans would have taken to it in terms
of Okay, now he's our guy, you know, let's see what then.
The non Doctor of the Economics version of John Cena looks like this kind
of soft baby face version, this kind of watered down version of of of
the Doctor. I don't know if you would have come out of the Doctor
actually as soon as he did if he was in the Attitude era, because
that was an error where you know, anything went there. You know,
there was very few TV restrictions. You could really run down somebody in a
very graphic way. So do I think he would have been considered the greatest
of all time in my mind if he had been as successful during that time.
I think, to me, you know maybe, but Austin, to
me, Austin and Rock, you can't. It's really hard to eclipse those
guys. They had some intangibles to me that no matter what error you put
John Cena in, he wouldn't have connected with with me on that level.
And that's just raw, like raw intensity and believability and just a connection you
can't really manufacture, so to me, he would have. It would have
helped the argument, but I still don't think in my mind it would have
solidified it. To me, Austin is number one, and you know that's
it. At what point did you start like, did you like John Cena
when he was in let's say the US Championship picture and he was the doctor?
Fucking honestly, did you connect with that version of John Cena more than
the version that was, you know, hugging babies and you know, kissing
kissing kids or whatever he's doing, you know? And when he when he
started to me that the transition where I jumped off the John Cena train,
I actually know exactly when it was. It was when he transitioned from the
doctor, which I really got behind. The rap thing was great, uh,
And I understand there's a shelf life of that character. You can't eventually
run out of content eventually, you know, you kind of have to evolve.
I understand that. But when he transitioned from that to the chain gang
crap, I was off. I said done, goodbye, you know,
And that's when he, to me, showed his true colors of just going
from Austin to to this soft version of who their next quote unquote guy is.
I think a lot of it was that resentment of you go from this
badass mffer who just drank beer middle fingers too. As Rock eloquently put it
in twenty eleven, you can't see me like It's exactly what the problem was
for a lot of the people in my demographic from men eighteen to forty,
who went from this just raw, animalistic version of wrestling to this soft version,
clean cut, clean shaven. You know, now we're part of the
chain gang, aren't we? So tough? It's and then you know it
just to me was a jarring transition, and I, as you know,
in that demographic, I had a lot of resentment towards that. It's kind
of weird to go back and like map things up chronologically as to where it
went wrong, because one of the loudest pops I heard during the Ruthless Aggressionaire
was when he got drafted to Monday Night Raw, Like people were really behind
John Cena, and I wasn't like a like okay, this, oh five.
So when that happened, I was just about to turn eleven. So
I was probably part of the demographic that they were trying to appeal to.
But I started watching wrestling when I was, you know, in nineteen ninety
nine, so I was accustomed to that more mature content. And my favorite
wrestlers everyone and their mother knows by this point was The Rock. So I
wasn't a huge to be honest, at that time. I think I was
more of a Batista fan in the Ruthless aggression and then when they swapped them
from raw a SmackDown, because obviously they felt that John Cena was their guy,
and I guess that's why I gravitate. So I guess you do make
a good point that, like I gravitate him more to the animalistic guy,
no, but intended he was nicknamed the animal. But I didn't hate John
Cina. I did kind of get a bit, Like I remember, like
John Cina was very jokey and stuff, and one thing that always used to
annoy me about him is that like when he didn't have the title, he
would just come out scowling, which I mean, I guess makes sense,
like why would you be happy if you just lost a championship? But like
I remember, like he was the one thing about him when he came over
to Monday Night Raw, where I guess before I go on to like his
character dynamic, would you say that when he shifted from SmackDown to Raw and
oh five, the summer of O five is when they really kind of went
balls deep into the Orkney deep rather into the chain gang. That and the
Spinner Belt just put the icing on the cake. I mean, yeah,
Like I remember that a massive pop. I think it was during the Jericho
talkas Jericho segment. I remember that it felt like a big deal. It
was like what John Cena's on Raw, He's part of Raw. It felt
like a big deal, and it was. But that that is a defining
moment in my mind. I never ever have gone to a live event with
John Cena there and cheered John Cena. I don't actively hate him, I
just don't like it's it's a lot of similarities here with Cody Rhodes. But
there's a certain type of baby face character character that when you have these characteristics,
it annoys the hell out of me. Like for example, when you
if they if they transparently pander, if they try to be funny when they're
they're not, or they're not self aware enough to know that they're not funny,
but they think they are because they're a big starring they can be funny.
That bothers me, you know, like when they they're too clean cut,
too just too soft. I don't know how to put it. He
checked all those boxes for me, even though at the same time I could
say he is one of the greatest of all time. He is excellent.
He is a plus plus on the microphone when he wants to be in the
ring. He doesn't do high flying moves, but I've never been a big
proponent of that being a qualifier for a five star match. I actually don't
mind his style in the ring. I think that his in ring psychology makes
up for any of the lack of quote unquote athleticism that most people feel that
he should have in today's product. So I've never really been a you know,
down on him as a whole. I understand the gravitational pull that he
has in the demographic he targeted. I understand all of that from a business
perspective, and just organically those that demographic gravitated to him. Him and children
did. And I remember Triple H which was just classic in my mind back
in I think it was before the WrestleMania twenty two match. It might have
been when he came and he came out there and started, you know,
talking about how he hopes that some of his his fans aren't watching what he's
going to do to John Cena at WrestleMania, and he said, well,
you probably won't have to worry about it because it'll be past their bedtimes anyway.
And I remember I was like, thank you, like exactly, like
that's the problem here. But again, he is still all of this,
John Cena seen a sucks chance, all that which you know has been going
on for fifteen years now, all of it, through all of it,
he is still considered one of the greatest of all time. And you know,
I can't take that away from him. He is. As much as
I don't like the baby face jokey version of him, I got him all
the credit in the world. He is. He was the foundational piece of
WWE for a long time. So you know, I'm thinking back to it,
and I think the time that I am by this point, I was
probably thirteen years old. But like I said, I was never a huge
John Scena fan, like I was very almost as like indifferent, like I
liked him, didn't really go crazy for him. But that was kind of
like the tail of the Ruthless Aggression era, right, was that there was
no like cornerstone baby face like Austin or Rock or Sena in the PG era,
or let's say, you know, I guess now you would kind of
have Cody Rowans unfortunately, but like there was no foundational baby face Rock,
Like you know, you went from brock Lesner as the baby faced n O
three, then to Guerrero and Ben Waugh, and then you had HBK in
and out of the main event scene, and then you got Batiste in John
Cena. So like you couldn't really have one true fan favorite all the time
because it was just a rotating cast of characters on the baby face side in
the main event. But aside from you know, talking about liking or being
a fan of, when I earned respect for him, and I covered a
lot when I was doing rivalries in retro, was the match with HBK at
Wrestling twenty three, and I remember the build to that match felt so important
and for I don't know, this has nothing to do with John Cena,
but I will always remember that HBK came out to dx's theme song in the
main event. I don't know why that stuck with me, and I know
they did it for a reason because it still feels significant to this day because
it felt like a different version of Saun Michaels, Like it felt like he
was more of like that edgy hedging on a hegel Shawn Michaels in his match
against John c at russel A twenty three. And the fact that he liked
to watch it back and he came out to Degeneration X's song I think tells
that story so well, but he came out in his own gear, so
it was weird, like you got like all these different versions on Michaels to
make the very best version of Shawn Michaels. And they were World Tag Team
Champions at the time, and I remember the promo package that was amazing,
like it's just under the Rock and Austin my Way and crack Addict. People
don't talk about crack Addict enough. The yeah, non actual crack Addict put
the song crack Addict by Limp Biscuit did their promo at Wrestling in nineteen,
but HBK and John Cena's promo Wrestling twenty three was just as good, and
HBK obviously second and none in terms of in ring capability. I just thought
John c hung with him, and in that moment, to me is where
it's cemented John c and as a main a venture. Even if you didn't
like him. I felt after his match with HBK at Wrest twenty three,
you had to respect him. Yeah, no, no doubt about it.
I mean John Cena. If you don't respect him at this point, whether
you love his character or not, I mean you just you don't understand wrestling.
You're not a fan. I mean, it's just you can't not appreciate
all the contributions he's made, the ability of him to stay in the ring
and arguably one of his biggest matches of his career, even bigger than twenty
two, even bigger than the twenty one win, even bigger than his US
title win. It gets a big show at twenty uh that, Yeah,
I would agree, And and that match, I don't think it's talked about
enough for how good it is history. Probably it really is. And I
don't know why it's It's not like, you know, it's not like a
Chris ben Wah cover up where they're trying to pretend he doesn't exist. I
mean there's you know, like there are a lot there's that match did so
much for Sena and really HBK at the time too, he was still a
few years out from retirement. But still it is not discussed enough. But
well, in the effort of moving forward here because I know we have another
topic, let me just ask one thing about John Cena moving forward as we
do look forward in his run here, his short run on SmackDown that is
going to last another four or five weeks, and where you could see this
going. Who do you think ultimately he you know, I know, I
know he has a tag team match coming up at fast Lane, and it's
supposed to be AJ against the Bloodline, which is Solo and Jimmy. And
there's rumors, you know, if you heard the show last night that since
they took out AJ Styles, that Randy Orton, who's been working out at
the Performance Center, could be actually taking the place of AJ and you know,
facing or teaming with John Cena to take on the Bloodline. But let
me just get your thoughts on kind of like moving forward with John c to
where do you think they're going with it? Ultimately, it's a good question,
right because he committed to seven smackdowns and we're what four smackdowns in like,
we're more than halfway there, and I imagine he's going to show up
at Crown Jewel in less like Saudi Arabia isn't good for his brand. So
I mean, I guess I can't put take that one to the bank.
But the thing is is that if he's not going to commit beyond the seven
backdowns as previously mentioned, I guess that will pretty much be it because after
we have the tag team match at Pape where at fast Lane, he'll have
one more SmackDown left on his commitment now if he stays, and let's just
say that he's more or less going to be around in some kind of capacity
between now in WrestleMania and assuming he stays on SmackDown, like I imagine he
will stick around in the Bloodline story because obviously he has a very lengthy history
with Roman reigns, and it seems like maybe they're trying to give Solo Sakoa
the rug because let's be honest here, for as much steam and no momentum
as Solo Sakoa has made in the last thirteen months since whenever he jumped onto
the main roster falling Clash of the Castle in twenty twenty two. Has he
had his own like storyline and his own big feud since coming up to SmackDown.
No, No, he hasn't. So I mean I would guess that
that's where they're going, Like they've already planted seeds, if not more seed.
I mean, they planted a bush at this point, but I mean,
and it's growing. But I mean I do think that that would probably
be the best course of action because La Night. I mean that if they
did do that, that would be more WrestleMania Shamus been there, done that
with Sena, Like who else would you have on SmackDown? Like Bobby Lashley's
involved with the lwoh like Austin Theory, been there, done that, Grace
and Waller kind of been there, done that as well. Like if he's
going to stick around on SmackDown, I think it would have to be solo
Sakoa because he's not going to go after Roman again. No, the Roman
deal is done. There's no need to put Roman versus Sena again. That's
kind of that ship has sailed. We've been there and it was a fun
ride. But yeah, that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense right
now. But I will say this, when Roman comes back from wherever he's
hiding, I will say that he needs to, you know, face somebody
outside of the bloodline. I don't need any more intra family stuff. We've
discussed that, so hopefully, I mean, it could be Aj Styles,
who was quote unquote hospitalized by the bloodline. AJ Styles versus Roman. Reigns
could happen at Crown Jewel. Or it could be Randy Orton, who is
rumored again to be returning very soon, with actual evidence. This time there
was footage of him actually going into the performance center. It's not just rumor.
So he's close closing in on return, you'd imagine. So whether it's
Randy or Aj, that's got to be Roman's next httle defense at Crown Jewel.
And then, you know, obviously, then we start to get into
the thick of things of Okay, now we're past we're now we're looking at
Survivor Series in the face, and then here comes WrestleMania season right around the
corner. It's it's it's coming up quickly, and that kind of leads me
into my next topic of before we talk about specifically Cody, what the heck
would you do with La Night? I have to ask because it's a very
strange conundrum of if the rock face is Roman at Mania, but yet La
Knight is on the rise and he wins the Rumble, which many people think
he's going to, you can't have Rock and Roman but also La Night.
So Rock is kind of blocking La Knights potentially massive match with Roman, and
I just what would you do? Because it's it's a bit of a cluster
right now in my mind with La Knight heading into WrestleMania, Well, what
would I do? I mean, the first question we would have to ask,
assuming the Rock is on a collision court with Roman Reigns, would be
is the w w E Championship involved? I wouldn't have it there. I
know you touched on it on the Weekend Review and the mail bag. I
believe I think you've mentioned it almost in every single show recently that the title
shouldn't be involved with Rock and Roman and I concur but let's be real,
the title will be involved. Like I don't think Roman Reigns is losing it
for another year. So I gave my fantasy booking last week on the show
about La Night winging the championship from Roman Reigns maybe around Royal Rumble and the
Rock helping La Na win it. I don't think they're going to do that,
So I'm not even going to go down that path. So let's say
on smackdownside, you have Rock Roman on dispute Championship. Now, I do
like your idea of them maybe predetermining that before the Royal Rumble. So La
Night doesn't look like a fool that if he wins the Royal Rumble, he
isn't challenging for Roman Reigns is not only his championship, but challenging to end
his three and a half year run at that point. So Elia wins the
Rumble, I would probably have him go against It. Sucks to say,
but well, no, you know what, not a triple threat. I
wouldn't do a triple threat. I would have La Na probably go against the
heel Drew McIntyre over on Monday Night Raw for the World Heavyweight Championship. In
my mind, no matter what you do, Drew McIntyre needs to walk in
to WrestleMania as the World Heavyweight Champion. As a Heel. I don't think
you could string out seth Rawlins for that long. I do have a hunch,
and I know people have like alluded to it a bit that maybe you're
gonna see seth Rawlins versus CM Punk, and if it's not, I think
that, like if cm punk comes back, I think it has to be
against seth Rawlins, and maybe it's a cmpunk retirement match. I think that
would make a lot of sense. Cmpunk did does have history with the Shield
going back to twenty thirteen before we walked out after Rumble twenty fourteen, and
then I would have probably have John Cena against Cody Rhodes, assuming they're not
gonna do John versus Edge that occupies Cody Rhodes. But I do think with
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a good way to elevate La Night to a championship match. It takes the
responsibility of choice away from the Rumble winners, which would be Night, and
it also gives John Cena someone to work with in Cody Rhodes, which that's
our next topic. You're guys, this is the final one we're gonna end
with here, and you know, there's been a lot of backlash, I
gotta say from people who don't feel that Cody Rhodes should be bumped from this
potential Roman Reigns Cody Part two. We gotta have Cody, you know,
finish his bedtime story and win the title from Roman and that the Rock is
uh, you know, in a place that he shouldn't be in, and
and the fact that some people believe that the Rock wouldn't draw more money.
And let me read some of the some of these quotes here. Okay,
I guess this is just I'm not going to give you know names here,
but this is from somebody on social media that said, gotta love the dimwits
out there who don't appreciate a guy building himself up on his own. Talking
about Cody Rhodes risking it all in indies to finally make it back to having
to prove himself and earning it and then finishing that story. Just bonkers that
all these quote fans who only like the shiny s you know. So,
I mean, I don't even know how to respond to some of these things
that people send, like you're just wrong. The money will be drawn from
both, saying both matches will draw money equally, and the crowd demo is
made up of more than half people that pay for either, so happily,
your point is moot the fact that which is more appealing, and Cody finishing
his story but made more sense before ruined wrestlemning. So, first of all
this. You know, he can't even form coherent sentences. But the point
is that some of these people believe, hey, rock and Rollman would draw
just the same amount of money that Cody and Roman would and that Cody is
more deserving. He's come up through the ranks and all I mean, I'll
just let you respond to some of this. So he we don't have respect
for Cody Roads, who's building himself right, Yeah, you know what,
Cody Rhodes sucks. I'm like, I'm sorry, but in the context of
main eventors and wrestle me main eventors, he absolutely sucks. And I don't
care if I hurt your feelings. This guy showed up eighteen months ago,
has been booked so in such a bulletproof way, has been pushed to the
moon, has had to face zero adversity, doesn't even really have his own
storyline, so all they do is help him bury younger and more overheels like
in terms of who's like I mean when we're not mean getting to the dominant
mysterio stuff. But I mean, all he has to work with is bulletproof
booking. So yeah, no wonder he comes off as like this great,
like holier than thou larger than life superhero Clark can look alike, you know,
Like that's what it feels like. I'm waiting for him to rip his
suit open and have the Superman as under his shirt. Like it is such
bulletproof booking that this guy has had. You have not even given us a
chance to want him to succeed, because that's all he does. All he
does is succeed and conquer evil and make the crowd happy and cash in political
chips and stick his stupid blonde hair in my damn face. And I'm trying
so hard not to swear right now because I'm used to after dark. But
the fact that people could actually write acinine comments like that I'm not appreciative of
Cody Rhodes really give me a damn break. I'm gonna go and puke in
my cat's litter box right now, that's fifteen feet away from me in the
other room. Like it is so hilarious that people appeal to babyproofed booking and
characters. That's what it is. He lives in a like he presents a
fantasy land where you have no adversity, Like, oh, what's the adversity
that we've seen Cody Rhodes that he passed out to a camorra loock. That's
the biggest adversity. And look, relatively speaking, right, if I passed
out to a moralock, it'd be the biggest adversity of my life at the
hands of brock Lessner. I'm talking relatively speaking here, but in the context
of a main event or in the largest wrestling promotion ever in the history of
the planet. His biggest adversity has been passing out to a camorralock. He
can't even take a pin clean. He can't even tap out, Like,
what's the harm with him tapping out to brock Lessner? Who cares? Or
have brock break his arm and then they end the match. No, he
had to fall asleep and like lose the match unknowingly. Like it's just such
garbage. And you know what, if you like this, more power to
you. Go live in a fantasy land where you're never going to face adversity
in your damn life, and everything's gonna be sunshines and rainbows and no one's
ever gonna step on you, and you're never gonna have to wipe the dirt
off your off your chest and get back up and put your working boobs on.
No, no, no, no, no. We always have to
just live in a fantasy world that Cody Rhodes where he does, wherever he
wants. Everyone loves him. He kisses babies, he waves to the crowd,
he has all these anyway, No, you're wrong. I don't appreciate
him, and I don't feel bad for it, so that that's a stupid
comment. I mean it gets worse. Uh you know this. You know
they're saying, you're calling me a spot fan, a trendy person apparently,
who I just refuse to admit. The money will be there either way,
because the crowd is two thirds sold no matter what s they put out there.
Unfortunately, I don't think that this individual realizes that the money is coming
in not just from gate sales, which would sell out anyway most likely,
but also you know, network subscriptions sponsors who will be paying for how much
or how how many people watch the show. I mean there's other revenue streams,
social media, and the fact that Rock got one hundred and fifty three
million views off of his social media return versus Cody Rhodes, is how many
maybe a few hundred thousand on his weekly total of social media. I guess
total views. There's a big difference there, and the fact that some people
can't understand that there are going to be more eyeballs, which means, oh,
I don't know, more effing money for demweek coming in. If the
Rock was able to face Roman Rains, the regardless of the fact that Cody
Rhodes and you think he should finish his story at the sacrifice of bringing in
a boatload more money with the Rock coming in, by the way, with
a match that not just for the money, but also I would put my
I would put a lot on the line. I mean, I may put
my house on the line. If I was to take a poll of every
WWE fan, which match would you rather see at WrestleMania forty Cody Rose versus
Roman or The Rock versus Roman Rains that it would be a landslide victory for
the Rock versus Roman Rains. You even heard the fans un SmackDown channing Rocky
during the Bloodline segment. I mean the he got last week in Denver.
It was deafening. The social media people have been waiting for this match,
so suddenly I'm trendy. I'm a spot fan saying that the Rock is old.
He shouldn't. He's on the roster. There's zero chance it's anything more
than a loss, and further pushing Roman, which is tired in a not
unnecessary anymore. No. I mean like this person has no concept of how
wrestling works and feels that, well, the Rock's old, he's not really
back. I would say, well, wait a minute, if you,
if you, if your parameters are that that person has to be quote unquote
back full time, then I guess we're gonna erase Stone Colds match at WrestleMania
thirty eight because he wasn't really back. I guess we're gonna race the Undertaker
of the last ten years of his career, only coming back for one match
a year. I guess we're gonna liminate every Triple h match for the last
five years of his career, John Cena's matches for the last few years of
his career because they're not back full time. I mean, some people are
just straight up clowns. Yeah. You know what, and I said this
on my show, is that if they were booking Cody Rhodes as just on
par with the Drew mcintires and the seth Rawlins and the aj styles of the
world. I probably wouldn't care that much. I'd be like, you know
what, not my cup of tea. But he's a good wrestler, good
on the mic, hard worker, clearly seems like a good dude behind the
scenes, loves himself. But whatever, I could live with that. I
probably wouldn't spend a fraction of the time I do on him. But it's
the fact that I am led to believe and forced to think and forced to
see his stupid face all the time and be told like no, no,
no. He is like the face of the company for the going forward.
Like I said last I believe I said this last week, is that Roman
is now Brock and Cody is now big dog Roman. That's what they did.
That's what they're doing, and the push of Cody Rhodes. And I
don't know if it has to do with you know, them trying to stick
it to AW but you know we we also I talked about this a bit
on After Dark about Vince mcmahn's involvement, and I think that his involvement is
more on the main event stuff because I still do think in the mid card
and the undercard, like you still see improvements with Triple H's fingerprints on it.
But it's this shoving it down your throat of Cody Rhods and Roman Reigns
and stuff like that. I think that's where Vince McMann comes into play.
And let's be honest, like, when did Vince come back to WWE?
Was it not early January last year? If I'm not mistaken? And when
did Cody Rhodes's meteorotic rise start? Yeah, that's kind of sinks up,
Like and I'm not saying that they don't like that. Triple H hates Cody
Roads and you'll never have him, you know, like win a match or
bury him or being US title picture. Like, No, Cody Rhodes is
a main event or he is one hundred percent, But so is Seth Rowns,
so is Drew McIntyre, so is aj Styles. You know, even
to a certain extent, you can make the case that you know Shamus is
in that mix as well, maybe to a lesser extent nowadays. But I
don't like, for me, how much he's been pushed and how elevated he's
been raised is indicative of Vince rict Man. I don't know why the fact
that he can't lose a match clean, like God forbid, Like it's just
and I don't want to spin this into a Vince rict Man angle, but
like I think that that's where we see Vince's fingerprints is in the main event
scene more than anything. That's where he says he's not getting into the weeds.
But to him, the main event isn't the weeds. And I understand
that, and I said this last week, but if anyone out there believes
Vince isn't somehow still involved in creative, you're fooling yourself. Vince is still
involved in creative. He mean, be there, you know, and every
maybe in every single meaning about matches that he doesn't particularly you know, prioritize,
but he's in the big picture stuff. You know, He's in the
big picture stuff, the WrestleMania stuff, the Survivor Series stuff, the Roman
stuff that John Cena, the Rock maybe if Austin comes back and has a
match this year, which is still rumored, that kind of stuff. And
and I understand why he wants to be in there. That's that's his livelihood.
You know. As much as we don't want Vince in the creative part
of this, uh you know, part of the process at this point in
his life, it's still happening. I mean, you can just pretend it's
not, but it is. But yeah, certainly, the way that the
baby Faces have been portrayed, Vince McMahon has this very outdated version of what
he thinks people cheer for. And and I you know, main people,
all you're being proven wrong. Look what you know, the baby Faces get
cheered. Look at the reactions Cody Rhodes gets. But those have shelf lives
like that version of those baby Face characters that are just so just kind of
just too good, too sweet, too soft, too I just just gushy
that stuff. Even if they don't eventually get booed, but most of them
do. Eventually, you were going to realize that you did not maximize the
reach of that character where they show a nasty side, where they can get
you know, the kind of blood and guts, although that's not really what
does anymore, but that kind of vicious side that some of these the Male
demo, the key Mail demo that I'm in and many other millions that are
watching the show are in, that they love and kind of long for that
version of a baby Face that's kick ass, you know, not exactly stone
cold, but that kind of aggression that Cody Rhodes is not showing, and
I think that's part of what's missing, along with a whole bunch of other
stuff and telling us this past week last week anyway, which was to me
the pinnacle of my anger for this whole character of him saying that he's here
to make us happy. I mean, like, does it get any more
nauseating than that. I can't believe he even said that out loud. To
me, that's worse than suffering suck atash. It's worse than it really almost
anything Roman Reign said as the big Dog. I don't know if you caught
that I did, But in the interests of time, could I switch gears
A because I just saw this report. Did you see that apparently Stephanie and
Triple Hit are getting separated? No? Is that breaking news? It was
reported, I believe a few hours ago by Slice Wrestling. I hope I'm
citing it properly, but yeah, it says that they have been separated and
are considering divorce. WHOA so, I mean, you know, on the
topic of Vince McMahon not to you know, take a sharp left turn away
from Cody Rhodes. But d Well, first of all, I mean not
that we know them personally, Like, how significant do you think this is
and do you think this could have a dead erect impact on Triple H's current
role as chief content officer. Well, let's pretend that this is. We'll
take it into face value. I see the same article you're seeing. I
pulled it up, but I don't see it being reported on like you know
any any others Now, let's not to discredit Slice Wrestling, their credible source
for the most part, I've seen them before. But let's take into face
value. What kind of impact does this have. I mean, Stephanie's not
in the company right now. She left the company when Vince McMahon became the
part of board of the directors again, she left, and Triple H is
still there and we're being told, at least on the surface, he's head
of creative And if that's the case, then I don't know how much of
an impact it would have. I would imagine he just is going to continue
to do what he's doing. I don't see Stephanie coming back to the company,
especially if they're like, hey, let's get a divorce, But come
on, back. You know, I don't think that that dynamic will work
very well. And perhaps that's also part of the reason that Stephanie left the
company, that the marriage was being strained. Maybe business bled into their personal
lives, and we don't know, but I think right now it's difficult to
tell the impact it's going to have on WWE other than just it's business as
usual, and they'll probably try their best to keep that kind of impact from
a personal perspective out of the business. You know, we always hear about
Vince McMahon bought WWF from his dad in what nineteen eighty one or whatever.
In an alternate universe where Shane had taken over or Stephanie had taken over.
Let's say when Vince was he's what seventeen eight now, so let's say like
when he was seventy, so like eight years ago or whatever, was like,
how much do you think the future of the company or the now the
past of the company would have changed if like a Stephanie or Shane or both
had taken over from Vince. You know, let's just make an even number,
like a decade ago, like had it just gone and passed down onto
the next McMahon generation, Oh good, Yeah, I think, I mean,
I think creative would have been a little bit different the on air product
from a production standpoint storylines, I mean, maybe they would have gone back
to TV fourteen, where Vince was very averse to it, and for a
lot of good reasons, especially monetarily, you're going to kind of cut your
hand off a little bit for you know, and cutting the number of sponsorships
because you're now limiting your audience to a specific demo. So I understand all
that. So, but maybe that would have happened. I think that if
Vince had done that, that there, you know that based on how people
work, what probably would have happened is the first crappy storyline that you saw
be pumped out by the new regime, that they would have been like,
bring Vince back. Like I mean, you know, now that sounds crazy
right now because of the situation we're in with Vince, but you know that
people back then, if this situation played out, would have been like,
you know, oh this sucks. Vince would have never done that. Vince
would have been figured out a way to do this or that. That's just
the way people work, where it's human nature but I think overall would have
been healthier for the company despite all the growing pains and blunders that would have
happened with this new regime with Triple H or its Shane taking over. It
would have had its growing pains, but ultimately would have been better for the
company because you have a new fresh set of eyes running the place. You
have, you know, the family still involved, but it's just a different
way to run it other than just the typical old Vince McMahon way that it's
always been done. And uh, you know again that's just might take.
It's hard to say specifically what would have happened, but ultimately I think it
would have been a positive instead of having, you know, the way that
it did play out. Yeah, for me, it's just crazy that,
you know, it went from his grandfather, I think it's Jess McMahon or
James Jess McMahon to Vince McMahon's senior to Vince K. Mcmahn, and Vince
nowadays sold it, you know, to Endeavor or the majority of it to
Endeavor, and now it's under t KO Group Holdings as opposed to letting the
company continue to move forward, and you've rewind to a year ago at this
time, and I remember watching I don't know why, but I remember watching
the Extreme Rules event, a B level pay per view and thinking how awesome
it was, obviously with the opening match of brawling brutes versus Imperium, the
what was it the fight pit match, the return of Bray White, and
thinking, like, man, a B level pay per view? Is this
good now? Like this is going to be an awesome period for w w
E. Stephanie was co CEO and chairwoman, Triple H had just been instilled
as chief Content officer, and like you actually had this glimmer of hope,
you know, a six month long period where like man like Vince is actually
doing what's best for business, and you know what, maybe forbid, I
can't even say what's best for business, because I'm sure that this sale to
Endeavor actually did maximize profits and monetarily it's much better for the business part of
the company. But from a fan perspective, it just felt so much different
where it's legitimately felt like the Stephanie Triple H era, And it's just crazy
to me that he came all the way back and did all this and actually
sold it and put himself back in the chair for a lack of better words.
And it's crazy trying to understand this guy that he would really just not
even like he's so power hungry or I don't even know if it's a narcissistic
or thinks that he's better whatever the hell it is to the point where he
doesn't even want to give his own children a kick at the can. Yeah,
I mean, we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe
they actually had no interests. It's possible that that Shane and Stephanie had no
actual interest in running the company. I know that there was a very well
documented strained relationship between Shane and Vince McMahon throw over the over the years and
decades. Now Stephanie McMahon, you know, seeming to be, you know,
a chip off the old block of Vince McMahon and seeming to have a
more of a business acumen and mind for WWE. But then she takes off
for I mean, probably partly if this is true with Triple H, the
strained relationship that he had she had with her husband on top of Vince coming
back, maybe she didn't get along with Vince, didn't want to be involved
in her reputation being tarnished with all the sex scandal stuff. Wanted to get
out before you know, she saw the tidal wave of crap coming. I
mean, there's a lot of that, I think in there, So I
think it's really Yeah, it is disappointing that it's not staying in the McMahon
family, and now the TKO Holdings will Endeavor owns the organization at least majorityily.
It is a bit disappointing if you're if you're looking at it through the
lens of you know, it's it's a family run operation passed down through the
generations, even though it's a public company. Yeah, that is a bit
surprising. But I don't know if it, you know, would have been
better had it stayed in the in the family. We don't know. I
mean, all we can discuss is really what it is now because all the
rest of it is so much speculation and so much different moving so many different
moving parts. Uh. You know. Vince McMann said he sold the company
because he saw he felt that over the years, like I think he was
said like five eight, ten years that it hit kind of flatlined. He
felt the business needed to kind of kick in the ass and that the business
had reached a plateau, I think is what he said. And you know,
I never really understood that, because that's the way business works, like
things plateau sometimes longer than you want. But ultimately, when he was about
to sell it, year or two before that, things were on the up,
like things were rising, the ticket sales were up. N XT had
never been hotter, the star the money at rowan SmackDown. SmackDown specifically had
higher ratings than ever. So it's weird that he would mention that but also
still go through with the sale. I do think it's you know, strategic
on his part to maybe appoint himself for life or whatever he's trying to do
over there as part of the creative control, but put himself on the board.
Certainly there's an ego there. But I you know, you gotta look
at Vince McMahon with kind of one eye open at night. You never know
really what he's up to here, and he's still partly in creative control and
until he dies, that's gonna be the way it's going to be. It's
crazy, Like I think there was a report in twenty twenty that shame Man
left in twenty in two thousand and nine because he felt that he was never
going to get his chance to take over. I believe there's a report about
that, But I want, like, I always like shaming man. I
know Jim Cornette always says that he's his favorite McMahon. But I think back
to like, you know, mid two thousands and when Sha mcmahn would come
back periodically, and I always like Shane McMahon, And it's kind of crazy
to think that even when he did come back from how long was he back,
let's say, like four years, from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty,
Like, it's crazy to think about the fact that he was just a talent,
Like he didn't really have a backstage pole well other than the rumble he
put together, the infamous rumble that. Yeah, and then of course tore
him towards h I don't know, a C lmcl and whatever it was hamstring
when he did a leap frog. You know, oh my god, that
was so unfortunate. I mean, yeah, the thing is, like Shane
mcmahn has tossed himself off of like eighty foot drops and been fine, and
then he does a leap frog and tears his leg off. I mean it's
just it's ridiculous. But yeah, so, yeah, I know we went
on at a little bit of a different path than we thought we would tonight,
but I think it's been a productive conversation and it's gonna be fun to
see moving forward. And I know Cody Roads started off Monday net raw,
so we'll well, we'll wait with bated breath of you know, yeah,
I know, wait with bated breath of what did he say? And just
hang on every word and get to see him smile a hundred times and make
sure he sees all the crowd and turns his back on the hardcam and all
this nonsense. But yeah, so all right, Well, any any final
thoughts or comments before we close it? Uh, nope, Cody Road sucks.
Okay, that's fine, but no, it was a fun conversation tonight
for sure. All Right, man, very good. I will talk to
you in a week, yeah, man, looking forward to take care of
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