Parita Kuttappan Interview. Ep 46

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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of four, an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. We want you to get the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This is episode forty six. We'll be interviewing Parita Kutupan about surviving and thriving in the corporate world, especially with a new baby. Very excited to hear about that about her life. So that segment will be coming up in a bit, but first let's talk about somebody else. So it's surviving and thriving in the world of work with a new baby. How's it going, Sarah, I don't know about thriving. Surviving. Surviving is happening. I'm taking it one day at a time. Do you have you ever gotten like so behind that you just feel paralyzed by the behind? This or is it just me I've gotten there? Yeah? No, I mean you just feel sort of frantic, like you know there's yeah, it's not that you don't you know there's stuff that you haven't done, but you don't even know what that stuff is that you haven't done right exactly. You get to like this, it's like you feel like you. For me, it feels like I fill in some sort of hole and like my whole like planning system is on the outside. And I can't say it was it was bad. I got to that space about a week ago, and I'm actually feeling a million times better now. My strategy was that I was on call last weekend, and I had asked ar Nanni ahead of time if she could just be there the entire weekend so that I could focus sort of my my when I'm gonna call. It doesn't take the full day, but I wanted both full days to catch up both with work and home stuff. And now it's a week later, and I feel a million times better because at least I kind of know what I didn't know. You know, it was like mildly disastrous, but honestly it was almost like it was really bad. So I guess a lesson to myself is when I find myself getting to that point, I need to build in some ketchup time, Like it's hard to get out without a clear, delineated child free window cochup time. And what had led to the being so behind, Well that's this whole you know, season that we're in right that I'm in right now. It really has a lot to do. It's just being up all night so that I'm losing a lot of my sort of normal morning ketchup and the pumping, which I'm still doing at five in the morning. I've talked about it before, but I find it really hard to work when I'm pumping. So it's really kind of like just hours going by that I'm pretty I can read, eat a little bit, but just those hours add up and I, you know, my previous balance worked, But when all of a sudden I take the pumping time away, it's sort of snowballs. And that includes at work. So normally during the course of my day, I work really hard to get my pace note's done as I'm seeing the patients. And this takes some really focused kind of like balls to the walls, like fast hyping, fast thinking kind of pushed throughout the day because you know, they really do try to have us see as many patients as we feasibly can. So you know, since now I'm interrupting that with three pumps during that time period, I just can't do it. So then that builds up, so then I'm doing charts during the time that I would normally do life maintenance. So basically everything kind of snowballs, and I know it's all going to get a million times better once the pumping is out of the equation, and you know, that's temporary, so I'm all good with it, especially thinking, well, if it means that you know, my days off, I need to kind of spend a few hours of dedicated catch up time for the next you know, a few weeks to months, then that that works out. Yeah. No, I've had I definitely have viewed weekends sometimes as the catch up spot if I've gotten really behind through a bunch of you know, either if it's travel or if it's kid related stuff, and say, okay, I need a couple hours on the weekend. I've also wound up using sometimes when I'm in hotel rooms, and this is just a function of like if there's a time change. For instance, I tend to wake up at like four am when I'm in the West Coast. Oh, I love early. I think that's like my most productive I mean, right now, I just am having trouble with that because the nights are so bad that I can't. But I agree with you. That's if I need to like crank out a presentation or something, it's amazing what you can get done. But between like four and six, if it's in the right mood, it's totally true. And so I'll be like, oh gosh, I'm days weeks behind on email or something. And then I'm in on the West Coast, I wake up at four on my own because it feels like seven am, and then you know, I'm not scheduled for my speech until let's say ten thirty or something like, you know, there's five hours. This is a great tip for the East Coasters. Only fly to the West Coast beach at lag. You'll pay the piper eventually, but for that moment you are on and yeah, no, so I'll work in hotel room. And it's true. It's amazing what you can get caught up on when you have no distractions, like you're just plowing through, and so I think what often happens with, you know, people who are parents of small children, like, oh, well, I've got to still spend this time with the kids, and then you're not giving them your full attention, and you're not giving the work your full attention because you're dealing with the kids. Yes, I agree, it's so much better to just make a clear delineation where you're like, no, I'm going to the office, I'm fully focused, because then when I get home, I'm not like distraught and feeling like, oh my god, my phone is pinging. I can't. So I totally agree it's like better to have them kept a bit separate if possible when you get like this exactly cool. Well, I'm excited to hear what our guest has to say about this topic, because I'm sure she has the kind of work that tends to bleed over as well. Yeah, so we'll hear about that. Onto the interview segment. Well, Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Parita Kuta con to the program. Parita, how about you introduce yourself for our listeners. Sure, thank you, Sarah and Laura. My name is Parita. Could have Haan and I am a full time working mom. I work in the corporate environment, if you will. And I am a wife to a second year radiology resident, Vishnu. I am mom to Cayden, my adorable ten month old baby boy. I also have a blog on the side that I've had for about seven years now. It's called Mian or Shukby. And in my spare time quote unquote spare I love to read, watch TV, catch up with family and friends, go shopping whenever I can, but of course those things are far and few between these days. But still like to have fun as a mom. Yeah. And so how long have you been back at work now with your ten month old? Yep, so I've been back at work now about six months, Okay. And did you make any changes in your work life as a result of having a kid. I did so. Before going on maternity leave and having Cayden, I did. I sat down with my boss and had a conversation about what my schedule could look like when I went back to work, and we just talked about different options and we came up with sort of an alternative schedule where I'm still working full time, but my week looks a little bit different than it did before in terms of the days that I work. So right now I work for ten hour days, so still getting my quote unquote forty hours in a week, but I work for ten hour days and then I have Fridays off. Wow, And why did you think that would be the most sort of family or you know, the best schedule for you at this stage of your life. Yeah, So I think for me going back to work, I just didn't know what to expect. Caiden was about four months at the time when I went back, and I just didn't know what to expect. So I wanted a day aside from Saturday and Sunday. And I'll get to that in a in it, but I just wanted a day where I could get everything done that I possibly could sow our grocery shopping, some laundry, some food prep. I just needed that day to get that done. Otherwise, by the time you know, you get home from work and put the baby to bed and sit down and eat your dinner and kind of ramp down, there's no time for any of that stuff. So I wanted that day to be able to get all that done. And I say that Saturday and Sunday don't always count is because my husband is a resident, a medical resident, and his schedule varies, and so I can't really count on the weekends to be able to get that stuff done in like an effective and efficient manner. Well, I definitely want some more career background stuff from you, because I feel like we jumped into the middle and I want our listeners to know. But I was also going to comment, I hope that you're not just doing laundry on that day, because that's something that can be outsourced versus time for you to relax cannot be outsourced. So I'm hoping that you're also spending that time doing things that replenish you. Is that true? Absolutely? Yeah, And I think it's just about, you know, kind of looking at the week So for example, if I know Vishnu has that Saturday offer, he's going to be home on the weekend, I will use Friday to you know, either go get my nails done, or if my sister's free, I'll hang out with her or just read a book and relax at home a little bit. But if I know that the weekend, you know, coming up is going to be a path one that will sort of require a lot of time of mine with Cayden and not a lot of free time. Then I do like to use that Friday to just get things done. That makes sense, Yeah, all right, So look back up and tell us a little bit out of your career about your career, because we didn't get any of that. We just we know about your schedule, but we don't jump right career journey, all right, Kriza, tell us about it. Sure. So I've always been in the corporate world, so I've always sort of worked for companies, if you will. And so I graduated undergrad so many years ago with a degree in finance, and out of college I took a job with a professional services firm in their advisory practice. So really what that what that means is that I reviewed companies processes and procedures to ensure that like a certain level of compliance was met with regards to their finances and operations. So essentially I was a consultant. I really quickly about I would say, six months into that job, realized that that career wasn't necessarily for me. So I applied to business school. And that was something that I always sort of had in the back of my head coming out of college, is that eventually I want to go back and get my MBA. So I applied at that time and luckily I was accepted to Georgia Tech. And it was during this time that I sort of made a career transition still corporate into sort of the world of HR, and I interned at a Fortune five hundred company in their HR Leadership Development program. At the end of the program, I was made a full time offer for post graduation a post graduation role. I took the job ended up moving around the country. It was a wonderful experience for me in my mid mid twenties. I lived in Arizona for eight months, Massachusetts for eight months, in Florida for eight months, and was really exposed to several different aspects of human resources, HR, human resources and the company as a whole. So the funny thing is, at the end of the program, you typically get placed into a permanent role, but it didn't quite work that way for me because I was engaged at the time and my hobby to b Vishnu was in medical school in South Florida. And when we got married that June, and shortly thereafter, I moved down to Florida and that's when I started working for my current company. And my current company is also a professional services firm in the accounting industry, and I started about six years ago, been they're almost six years as it's called a Global People and Culture sort of our team. I was a project coordinator working on different projects and tasks. I was then promoted a project manager where I began leading some of our projects, and then currently I'm a senior project manager in the Global People and Culture space. And in terms of what I actually do, I work with people and culture leaders from around the world to support their efforts in the HR space. So we have people all over the world. On a given day, I could be talking to somebody in Greece, India, China, I mean, you name it, and where. We're talking to these people and really helping them shape their HR People and Culture strategy and sharing what we do with them. We answer, you know, we work on things like diversity and inclusion, which is very near and dear to my heart, answer questions, connect people, you know, help build our network. And I just think, yeah, and it's just I love my job because no two days are the same, and I get to communicate with people around the world and learn about different cultures and different corporate environments if you will as well. That is fascinating. Has learning about those different cultures influenced I don't know how you see working in America, especially as a parent, like differences and leave policies or just work life structures or that kind of a thing. Absolutely. So it's funny because some times you won't know that somebody is on maternity leave, let's say in our firm in Australia or Sweden or what have you, and you'll get you an email back an out of office and it'll say you know, on leave until and it's like a year later, and I just I'm like, oh, I wish that you would catch up with that. I was lucky my company gave me twelve weeks of paid leave and then I took an additional about I would say it was like five to six weeks unpaid just to get me to that four month mark with Cayden. That is awesome. Yeah, And so you're scheduled. I mean, despite the fact that you're working with people all over the globe, it sounds like you have some flexibility and how you've sort of set your hours. Can you talk about how you get those forty hours in in the course of the week. You said four ten hour days, but it's not like straight eight to six, right, No, no, no, no. So I typically am in the office by seven forty five eight, and then I work in the office from about eight to four, and then I come home and then my caid in time, if you will, is from the time I pick him up at daycare, which is around four thirty t when he goes to sleep around six. Then you know, later in the evening around you know, eight eight thirty, I log back on and finish up work for an hour or two. So I get the hours in that way. And I'm also flexible in that we do send Kaid in the daycare most Friday, so if I do need to work on something, or there's a special call that I need to be on or a meeting, then I'm very flexible about that as well. So I don't I don't, you know, live and breathe by the schedule, but I do. My boss is very respectful of it, and I do try to, you know, work according to those hours. But you know, I am I am trying to do try to be agile and flexible with that as well. Yeah, so what she's describing in case we have listeners who haven't thought of doing this yet, is that the idea of the split shift, right that if you need to work sort of longer hours and yet you also want to see a young child who goes to bed relatively early. So in her case, the baby goes back quite early, which is like the foreign concept to me. But anyway, my children never did that, you know. So if she works straight through to six, she wouldn't say him, but she doesn't do that, so she stops at you know, four, she hangs out with him for a while, and then does more work at night after the baby goes to bed. And so that's the split shift idea. And if you have some flexibility in your job, it is actually a great way to get those full you know, forty hours in or if you need to do like fifty hours right like it's you know, are there's been all this stuff written about how like women will never work fifty hour week jobs or whatever because they wouldn't see their kids. It's like, well, not the way most of them work it, I mean, Plus there's also a lot more than fifty hours in the week, but leaving that aside, you can work them in such a way that you preserve those early evening hours for family time and yet still get the work done too. Did you know that going into this or did you stumble onto that paroda? The concept of working of the four tens and then having a Friday off. Well that and so the idea of working at night after Cayden goes to bed. Yeah, so I think you know. I had a former coworker who was on our team who, after her first baby, went on the schedule, and so I definitely picked her brain, you know, before while I was pregnant, and I just asked her how it worked, and so I knew it was a possibility and that my company and that my boss especially would would be open to this. Luckily, I know not everybody is this lucky, but my boss is two young, young daughters, so she's sort of been through this world, if you will, especially the early years, so she's very accommodating and she knows my work ethic and stuff. So yeah, I knew early on that this was something I'd want to do. Yeah, after I went back to work after maternity leave. Cool. So that's a good lesson right there. Talk to other people who are making it work right behind you because they might have some good ideas and you never know. Sometimes people may not be outright about how they negotiated. You may not know until you talk to them that hey, actually they did ask for this and they got it. You had something in your notes about that, specifically about not knowing how did you word it? Something about if you don't ask for something, you'll never know if you get it right. If you don't ask, the answers always know. So that's something I say a lot. I think it's so easy to assume that your workplace or your boss won't allow an agile schedule or accommodate you in some way, but you really don't know until you ask. And I know for me it's not always easy to be so forthright in asking for something that I want in these kinds of situations. But I realized that really, you know, in any career, the only one really looking out for you is you. I mean, other people care about your career and your growth, but when it comes to these things, people can't read your mind. They don't know what you want and need, and so you have to kind of put yourself out there to make that work life. I like to call it integration. Work for you and your family. But yeah, always ask or always Okay, I'll put one small caveat on this because there are also some offices where people don't ask but just do. With asking is sometimes you then get some of the negatives associated with it, whereas if you just do, it is the asking for forgiveness rather than permission. So you have to read your own environment. If you have a boss who you know is good with flexible schedules, as you said, you know that somebody you've seen go through it with their own children open and all that great. What there was some interesting research that came out. There was a study of men in a major consulting firm. We don't know if it we don't know the name of that, and and Pritas is anonymous for this as well. Who knows maybe if they have been the same, but we don't know. But anyway, they h a lot of the men were people thought they were working eighty hour weeks, but they weren't. They were actually working a lot like you are, but they just weren't talking about it, and so they just did it. And then you know, nobody knew. So it's really I think, you know, people listening to this. You know your environment, you know if it's the place that embraces flexibility or a place where you kind of do the flexibility on the slide. But either way, just what you said, you are the only person looking out for you, so you need to take responsibility for working in a way that works for you and then figure it out from there. But anyway, that's enough of my soapbox, can you Let's let's go to your your tips and tricks and hacks. So, yeah, you had some great yeah. So I think my first thing is I'm naturally like an organized person. I always have been. I really I love like taking up my planner, Sarah. I'm sure you'll appreciate this and writing everything down, and you know, even if things don't go according to plan, I just like to sort of do that brain dump and kind of map it out for myself. So I use a paper planner to plug everything in from paying rent to doctors' visits, to vision new schedule, the travel plans to Caden's stuff. If you will, I also use my outlooks calendar, so everything is in two different places. So even if I don't look at my paper calendar that morning, I will get my Outlook alert telling me that something is coming up. And now that I'm a mom, nothing is overkilled to me because I tend to forget and so the more that I write it down or type it out, the more likely it is that I'll remember whatever that task. Do you share your outlook one with your husband so he can also see going on there or funny story, So, before Cayden was born, I definitely tried to do this like joint Google calendar with my husband, and I set it all up, I color coded it, and you know, I explained it to him. And then one day we were sitting around and he got some alert for one of my volunteer events and he's like, what is this And I'm like, oh, it's my volunteer events part of our calendar system. And he's like oh, and he just wasn't a fan. It was really funny, and I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna plug you Just tell me when your stuff is happening and I'll plug it in. And then I just remind him it sort of just works with our personalities. He wasn't a fan of getting alerts about my stuff, you know, so funny, that is funny that is funny. We found it helpful to share a calendar, especially for like weekend stuff, so that we don't double book stuff. But I get that some people don't necessarily want your structure impost on them. Yeah, and I also have I should mention one of those mad like those big magnet calendars on the side of our fridge where I also plug stuff in, so that the important things that I really need him to know, especially about my work stuff or caidence stuff or even his own schedule sometimes is up there and sort of visible in the kitchen. So I also have that. I should say nothing is overkilled. Multiple layers absolutely. Absolutely. Another thing that I've learned since going back to work is that a good night time like prep routine is absolutely critical. If I don't do this, the mornings are very chaotic. So for me, this means getting Caden's food ready for the next day, labeling bottles, prepping our lunches if possible. And I think it's just like thirty minutes is what all I need. Twenty to thirty minutes, and it just goes a long way. And my husband is free and at home he helps me as well, so it can go even even faster. But that is probably the biggest thing for me, is just ensuring that everything is ready for the next day, very important. Are you still pumping? Are you done? No? I I finished. I did pump a little bit after going back to work, but I did it for about six months. I was an exclusive pumper, so it was it started to really take a toll in multiple Yeah, for six months, and so we we we got to the six month mark and I just looked at my husband and he even said and it was just you know, I think I'm ready to sort of start weaning. And we did that. That's so interesting. That's my that's my target as well. June eleventh, Yes, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And then well we especially like this next tip you have. I'm like, do what brings you joy? How is that a trip tip or trick or hack? Talk about that? So I think, you know, in my experience and from the conversations I've had with my my friends who are moms and new moms, is that sometimes everything we do is for somebody else. So of course our children, but I find that a lot of what I do is sometimes for my husband or for work, and that I'm not giving myself time and when that happens. I just like to incorporate short sort of joy breaks into my day, and they really re energize me. This isn't big stuff. They just make me feel more like Parita. So this can include anything from you know, a quick coffee break to a walk around the block if vision's home with Kayden, a blog brainstorm session if you will, a quick ketchup with a friend, and even sort of mindless Instagram strolling. I'm really trying to cut back on that, but sometimes it's just fun to kind of go through and just look at everything and you know, say for five minutes, I'm going to do this before I go on with the next thing I have to do. I just think that sometimes a lot of guilt and shame comes from doing things for yourself, and I think that it's important to just carve out time, whether it's a chunk of time or just these five minute joy breaks as I like to call them, keeps you sane. I absolutely agree there should be no shame in adding pockets of enjoyment to your life. I was actually just a guest on another podcast and that the host with mail and said something like, so, when when do moms you know, crossed the line from like doing everything to their kids to doing too much for themselves. And I'm like, is that really a problem that you've seen, because that is not something that I am familiar with. I mean, first of all, what a gendered question. And second of all, I think you know right now, they're really you know, there's even evidence about it, and there have been books written about it. There's this culture of like, you know, a lot of guilt and a lot of us not feeling like you know, we never feel like we're doing enough. So I think that ways to push back against that are exactly what you said, and that's so warranted and so necessary. Absolutely so thank you for sharing that. Let's talk about dry shampoo. Oh my god, that's also on free listines. I'm like, looking at this, Yeah, I've never used it. Tell us about dry shampa. I feel like my hair would not I don't know, I kind of have to watch it daily and I've never seen any evidence that I don't have to do that. But but tell us about this dry shampoo. Absolutely so. I dry shampoo is my best friend. So I don't have time to wash and style and straighten my hair multiple times a week. But you still. You know, obviously for work, you have to have a you know, professional professional hair and that's where this where great dry shampoo I think comes in because it just helps sort of combat that oiliness because they do work out during the week, and you know, it just helps kind of keep things looking fresh without having to actually go through that process of washing, drying, straightening, and curling whatever it is with your hair, because you know, at night, I'm just exhausted and my arms are just tired from holding a hair dryer and going through that. I have thick hair, So I think dry shampoo is just something that saves me so much time, both if I look at it from an evening routine as well as my morning routine. It just it just saves so much time. I love it. If you find a good one, I like, am I allowed to say like brand? Yeah? Yeah, I love the Living Proof dry shampoo. It is the best. It just soaks up the oil and it just really smells really great. And just make sure here even if you do an updo it just makes it look so clean. I don't know, it's it's a it's a it's a life saver. So what you just like powder it on your hair and it or spray it or like what's what's the actual logistics here? Yeah, so you just so you just part your hair, like in the front, I just part I just do you know, three or four parts in the front and just spray it into the part and then you wait about three minutes and then you just kind of rub it in. It goes on My hair is you know, dark black, so it goes on powdery and white. But then you just sort of work it in and rub it in and then style of your hair as you would. You can leave it down, you can even run the straightener throw it really quick. Or sometimes when I do have dry shampoo days, I just like to pull my hair into like a nice top knot or a bun and it just looks you know, doesn't look oily, it looks clean. And it's just a little tip and trick that I love. Yeah. Cool, this might be helpful at my sort of between Japanese straightening periods. So I think they, yeah, you wouldn't want to be doing the drying and stuff. But and then your concealer like we're also we love soup official things. Yes, well this is gonna air right after our supersticial thing episode. Yeah, so was finding a good because Pride also has a note that she has a good concealer. Was finding a good concealer a difficult process for you? No, I have a coworker who is really into makeup and skincare, so she shares all of her products with me. So I recently just started using the chart shape tape concealer and it is amazing. I mean, my dark circles can often be out of control, and they it just really like covers it up and keeps you, you know, looking really like bright faced and less like a zombie more like a professional. Highly recommend, highly recommend that specific one, the chart shape tape. Yeah. Do they have lots of different shades? Yeah, they have a good they have a good shade range. I would say they definitely do. I think I think you could find something for everyone there for something Okay, all right, that sounds good? And what other let's see tips and tricks for surviving the corporate life. Yes, one, if you don't mind one thing. I think that I was very anti. I would say, I know you guys had a whole episode. I'm outsourcing. Was outsourcing so before we had Caden all through my pregnancy, I was always the one and sometimes my husband as well, to clean the house and do sort of that weekend, spend a few hours cleaning the apartment or the house, and I just I don't know, I don't know if there was like shame or guilt in hiring somebody to do that for me. But I quickly realized after Cayden was born, like a month or two in, that this wasn't a weekly deep clean, just wasn't really going to fit into my schedule and everything else that I wanted to accomplish. So we did find a wonderful cleaning service that we now have come to the apartment and they do their deep clean for us, and it is honestly the best money we could spend. I looked at my husband after our woman came the first time, and I just said, I wish we had signed up for this years ago. It just saves you so much time and she does a much better job than I could ever do. So I think that's like one thing I would just say to moms is really look at your your schedule, look at where you have pockets of time and how you really want to use them, and if it's Okay to outsource. There's no real shame in that. I know I felt that way. But it really saves you time, and that's time that can be spent doing something else, of adding value or spending time with your child. I don't know. I just think that's another big one for me as a working mom. We are all about one. Outsourcing is key around here. And and so I mean, I'm curious how you see this shaving out because obviously your husband will be done with residency and what two more years or he has three years? Two years of residency and then a year of fellowship. Okay, so you guys will be nearing the end of that in another year or so. So how do you see things evolving at that point in your life? Yeah, so I think for us, so we're currently based in Chicago, and that was a move that we made for his residency, and so we have another two years of radiology residency and then a year of fellowship. The great thing about radiology in my experience, in having talked to other women who are married to residents or physicians and physicians themselves, is that it's a little bit quote unquote easier in a sense, a little more predictable. It's all shift based, so that really helps me maintain some perspective on the harder days. And Mission is usually home in the mornings unless he's on a night rotation, so that really helps with our morning routine and helping me get out the door and ready as well. The evenings are usually hit or miss, so I go into I always go into the evening thinking I'm gonna have to do this on my own, and if he gets home early, that's a big win. If he does, that is the right attitude for right there. You got to assume like the worst and then be surprised. And then the weekend calls are a little bit not difficult, I would say, it's just something else to kind of get used to. So the twelve, when he has a twelve hour shift, that's very manageable for me. But when he has a twenty four hour it's all me, and that's when it can be a little exhausting. But it's fine. I think once he's done, I think, based on what I know it'll be, it'll be pretty manageable. I think we'll be fine, and we'll, you know, just like you always do, take it a day at a time and you get through it. But yeah, for the next few years we are going to be living this resident slash fellow life. But radiology is a little bit, I would say, personally easier than other surgical fields, if you will cool, I have one more random question. Your son goes to bed, son or daughter? This is a son, Okay, he goes to bed at six? What time does he wake up? Yeah? So, actually it's funny because when I sent you guys my notes, I said that he's usually up between four forty five and five, but this week people breaking up at between five thirty and five forty five six, So he's been slowly sort of pushing it back. So he sleeps about eleven to eleven and a half hours, and so you get a little bit of quality time in the morning with him as well. Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, yeah, because that's something that I think, you know, Laura's had that discussion before, you know, in terms of the never seeing your baby. But people always discount the mornings. But at least in my experience, I think the mornings are the best. That's when they're in the best mood. It's kind of peaceful. It's not to be I mean, I guess if you're like a total anti morning person, you're just miserable the first two hours of your day, then it's different. But but like, yeah, don't discount those mornings. They're beautiful with little kids. Absolutely, So we'll just put him in his high chair and eat our breakfast and give him something, you know, and it's just it is really fun. And he's a morning person. I'm a morning person. My husband has become a morning person. So it is great. It is great time. You're right, it's quality time. Wonderful. Well, Grata, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your your hacks for making life in the corporate world with a small kid work. Anything else you want to share? Are we going to do a love of the week or is her love of the week dry shampoo? Oh? Yes, I actually thought about this because I know you guys always ask, and my love of the week is a sound machines. So when Cayden was born, we got a sound machine for a room where he slept, and then when he moved into his own room, we we switched and gave him a different sound machine. We have a sound machine at his daycare and now we use the original one for us in our room, and it is just a godsend like it drowns out all the city noise that we would normally hear, and it just like gives you that peaceful night of sleep usually and it drowns out you know. When my husband comes to bed later than me, I don't hear him. I just think it's such. I think every every parent should invest in a sound machine for their baby when they're born, and then even when the baby transitions, get one for them and then keep one for yourself. That's that is awesome. Yes, we are full of sound machines at our house as well. I will admit that I was just multitasking and I went on Amazon and bought the the tart Shape Tape Concealer Medium. I don't know what shade used FORREATA. I'm a very light, medium, skim kind of girl, so I just ordered that. It's it's a little back ordered it look, it won't arrive till late May. We're taping this in April, but by the time this errors, I probably will have it. So we'll put the blog if I'm sleep it So Harron got I mean, we mean this should be my love of the week again. The Amazon app I spend so much time on there, Sarah, how about yours? Yes, my random love of the week is the new Casey Musgraves album. And I am not a country music aficionado by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, I can like old school tailor swift maybe, but that doesn't really count either. But this album is like for everyone, it's just so. Her voice is so beautiful, her songs kind of cross over and to pop. I really don't think anyone could dislike this album. So check it out. Casey musk Graves Golden Hour, all right, and the and the Tart Concealer. We'll all be getting there and the Tart Concealer, I know, well, we'll all look like we are bright and bushy tail. Okay, Well, thank you so much for coming on PARTA. We appreciate it. Thank you both, Thank you how much? All right? This question comes from a longtime reader of my blog, Thank You Emmy. She is writing that she doesn't have kids yet, but is thinking about having a child in the next few years, and she's working as an attorney in a big city, but she's considering a couple of job offers for her next step. One of them has a high salary with long hours and a lot of travel, and the second has a lower salary but would be, in quotes, a much better lifestyle. So she's wondering how much should family friendliness be factored in at this point before even embarking on the journey of having children. She says she's struggling to balance leaning in versus being realistic about the challenges that she'll likely face with children in the near future. Oh well, I'll let you go first. Yeah. No, it's mentioned lean in or leaning in, because, of course, this is the whole point of the Cheryl Sandberg book, which is that if you don't have kids, why are you sort of taking yourself out already in anticipation of future kids when they're not even there yet. That you may as well lean in as much as you can because that actually creates more options later on. So I mean, I'm not saying what this reader slash listeners should should do with her life, because there's many things to consider at the job beyond salary, for instance, So I think honestly she should think about which job most matches with what she would like to spend her days doing what she finds most interesting, most compelling, most like she feels she's making a difference in the world, that she's excited about life. Those are the key questions. Obviously salary is part of that too, because there is nothing wrong with earning money. So I'm not saying don't take salary into account, but you probably don't want to make it the absolute one hundred percent choice based on salary alone. That said, I mean, I think there are some serious upsides to using these next you know, let's say she has a kid in three years. There's serious upsides with spending the next three years racking up money. I mean, like totally, I totally agree. I think salary is actually, you know, this is a time that you may want to think about banking and saving so that you have that flexibility later on. I think it's like far from trivial actually in this particular case, because you know, if she wants to like hire a really good caregiver for instance, like having a little extra money means that maybe you're a little bit more flexible in how many hours you have, how much negotiation you have with that. It could mean that if she does elect to, let's say, go part time, at some point, she has some cash saved up so she's got a cushion so she doesn't feel like she absolutely has to then necessarily work full time later on, you know, having that cushion. I mean, kids are expensive. Let's just you know, it's it's not a bad idea to have banked some serious cash before having them, you know, and given that she doesn't have the kids now, I mean, they're sort of like, well why not, you know, why not put the time and have that. There's also the reality that if the work you're doing will challenge you more and give you new skills, that's a better position to be in if you do want to do something more family friendly once you do have kids. So, I mean, she's in the I think she may be in the legal world. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but you know, just the idea if she makes partner at a major firm, that opens up doors in a way that maybe sort of a smaller role at a smaller firm does not. Like she'd probably have more offers to go into maybe public sector work, or go into being an in house counsel at a company if she's you know, check that box of making partner at a major firm. So these are alwaysings to consider. It's a great point. It may be easier to scale down from a high point than to scale up after having kids later. So I listening to us, we're both we're both saying, you know, if if there's two job officers on the table and one you absolutely you know love and it happens to be a lower salary and more family friendly, that that shouldn't be a reason not to take it, Like you should do what you want to do. But if you are looking at two offers, you're saying, well, I'm interested in this more sort of challenging, travel intense, higher paying job. I'm just worried about whether it'll be sustainable when I have kids. Well, you don't have kids yet. You may as well do the thing and then worry about the sustainability later, and you can always find another job later, right, You know, you could find something more family friendly or take some time off or scale back or whatever it is, but you know it'll be harder to get into that big job later, so maybe you want to take that chance now. Excellent, All right, Well, I think we're kind of on the same page with this. Maybe she'll write to us later and let us know what she let us know what she thinks. All right, Well, this has been Best of Both Worlds Episode forty six. We've been talking a lot of corporate life and making it work. So we'll be back next week with more on making work and life. Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more on making work and life work together.