Living Out Loud with THE Uptown Girl, Christie Brinkley

00:00:03
Speaker 1: And this day, as I was rushing in to call my vet, I literally smashed right into Eryl Sawyer, the photographer who had seen me there before and had a client who was looking for California sporty, California type girl. And so that's how it happened.

00:00:30
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, And this is next question. Of course, everyone knows who Christy Brinkley is, right, Sports Illustrated, swimsuit model multiple times, Billy Joel's uptown girl. But there's so many things that you probably don't know about Christy Brinkley, Like she had a very abusive biological father until Don Brinkley came to the rescue and loved her unconditionally. That she's had a number of love affairs, one that ended in tragedy, to where the guys were just awful people. It turns out anyway, she's got quite a life story. She's also incredibly talented. She's a great artist. She can sing, she speaks fluent French. She was roxy Heart in Chicago on Broadway. I mean, who just is able to do that? I think after you hear this conversation with Christy Brinkley, you're going to fall in love with her. I'm kind of obsessed with her myself, so much so that I spent an hour and twenty five minutes talking with her. Don't worry, everybody, before you freak out. We did edit it down, but here's my conversation with the one and only Christy Brinkley about her new memoir Uptown Girl. Okay, I want to get started, because I know you've got a million things going on. Christy. First of all, thank you for doing this. I'm very excited to talk to you. You know what a huge fan I am of you.

00:02:07
Speaker 1: Oh well, likewise, I mean, Katie, I have to say you're doing such an amazing job right now with what's going on in the world, you know, and everybody seems like so afraid to speak up, and you're speaking up in like you're bold and you're amazing, and I applaud you and I thank you well.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: I love getting your dms, and I'm always like Christy's on it. She cares as much as I do, So thank you for that. Because the whole team that's here listening to that nice comment, Christy, they're the people who are helping me every day.

00:02:43
Speaker 1: So thank you team, because boy oh boy, we are up against.

00:02:47
Speaker 2: It, I know, and I'll maybe ask you a political question at the end, but let's sell some books.

00:02:52
Speaker 1: Let's sell some books.

00:02:54
Speaker 2: Okay. So Christy, the first question I have for you is why now? Why did you decid, you know what, it's time for me to write my life story.

00:03:03
Speaker 1: I'm seventy one. If I don't do it now, when am I ever going to do it? You know, I had started it before. Actually, Stephen Gaines was working with me a little bit on it, and he immediately said, the title of the book is Uptown Girl, period, nothing to discuss. And then I was like, I want to do this. Who wants to read a story about me? And so then I just was like, eh, I don't need to do it. And in fact, when I went into HarperCollins, I was like, I know I have a book in me, but part of me thinks that the book is a Nancy Meyers movie. And because I've got the real estate, the wardrobe, the crazy xs and once you get out of the divorce, it's funny, you know, I mean, especially my last one.

00:03:56
Speaker 2: There's so much to laugh about that one, even though at the time weren't doing a lot of laughing.

00:04:01
Speaker 1: Even though at the time, I felt like I was going to die Like.

00:04:05
Speaker 2: Well, I should point out for people who don't know you, you've got an incredible sense of humor, this extraordinary ability to laugh at yourself. And when you were deciding, you know, I'm going to put my life down, what were the animating ideas that you had. Did you say, I'm going to be just brutally honest. That's what I did with my book. My husband said, do not write a book unless you can be totally honest.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: And a great title for your book that delivered that message.

00:04:35
Speaker 2: You know, what's the point of kind of sugarcoating things after you've lived a life with good, bad, ups and downs. Yeah, you know what, what did you think about when you said I'm going to write my book? What was your guiding principle? I guess I don't even know if I really had one.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: First I had to decide if it was going to be a Nancy Meyer's comedy or a sweet story of my days and pairs, you know. And then once Lisa Sharky wrote me a letter the publisher at HarperCollins, and she convinced me that my life story needed telling, and so I started it. Actually with a writer, a guy, and it didn't sound like me at all. And I also have to mention I have kept journals for sixty years. I had started, like, you know, sort of cleaning things up, and I came across my journals that was really the thing that said I've got to tell a story. Because I left to Paris to be an artist, and then when I became a model, I had no time to be an artist, so my art shrank and I got a repetiograph, which is a very fine point pin, and I would do these little drawings in my journal, like Beulah's restaurant in e Lucera and the whole crew sitting around the table, and I think, someday I'll do a big canvas with this and I'll paint it. But my life hasn't slowed down to be able to do that yet. But someday I'll paint that meantime, that kind of became the book. Then I started working with a female writer, Sarah Toland, who I worked with, and we started sort of culling the stories because at seventy one, your life just doesn't fit in a book. It just does not fit in There's so many adventures that I couldn't put in there. Maybe another book.

00:06:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you put a lot of great stuff in there, so many great stories, and you're right. I mean, you had a treasure trove of source material, including letters you'd written to your mom and dad from Paris. But you also had to I think, excavate a lot of childhood memories that I think were really painful and I felt so terrible out your childhood up to the age of eight. Your biological father was this guy named Herb Hudson, and he was a real jackass and abusive to you. Talk about what that was like, because I was really upset to read what you had to endure as a little girl. He terrified you.

00:07:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, he You know, writing the book, there are lots of parts of the book that I didn't really want to write about, And I can get choked up even thinking about that, because you know, I just didn't really want to ever write about it. But I guess I also didn't really want to think about it. I never did think about it in my life because my mom also didn't want to think about it. And once we met my dad, who, you know, the greatest dad in.

00:07:59
Speaker 2: The world, Don Brinkley.

00:08:01
Speaker 1: Don Brinkley. Once we met him, you know, everything change, but we also pretended as though the other life never even existed. And because of that, I think I had buried a lot of those memories. So when I did have to try and remember the things that were popping into my head, which were things that I didn't want to remember. Unfortunately, the things that stood out were his belt, you know, his whipping me with it, one of my other childhood memories when I was singing into the microphone. You know, I remembered that, I think because it was also there was pain attached to it, you.

00:08:45
Speaker 2: Know, and he would wash your mouth out with soap, and you know, you would basically be terrified about him coming home from work. You said, he used to look for excuses to punish you, and you know, looking back on it, I'm curious if you and I know you and your mom just kind of basically blocked it out. But do you have any better understanding, Christy, about what made him the person he was and why he did that to you? And did he do the same thing to your brother?

00:09:19
Speaker 1: You know, I really don't know. I remember. All I can remember about my brother was that he got a lot of really, really bad headaches, which my mom thought was because he was stressed from her putson. But I can't really speak to what you know, he felt. But my mom would mention things every now and then occasionally, and I used to say to her because she didn't have anything nice to say, and I used to say to her, you know what, Mom, I don't like thinking that I made out of part of that horrible person. And I'd rather just not hear about it, because then it makes me feel like, am I going to be mean like that? You know? Am I going to be evil like that? So even if she did feel like speaking to me at that moment, I didn't want to speak about it.

00:10:14
Speaker 2: Right.

00:10:14
Speaker 1: We didn't really psychoanalyze what was going on with him. We didn't spend much time talking about it. All I can surmise is that, you know, I really felt like my life with him was this black and white movie that you know when the film breaks and then you're in a new phase of the life, you know, like I have a little I have a little memory of once we went to Disneyland in California, and I really really really wanted to go on that auto ride where you get to drive the cars, but to a point in the line. Seemed like we were waiting for so long in the line, and they left me to hold the place in line, and then they went to go get some drinks or something like that. Right, And as soon as I got to the place in the line where I could see the cars, I got so mesmerized by the cars I forgot to keep moving and I was just like staring at this car, like are my feet going to fit the pedal? And what do I do when I get to that turn? I was really like, and I'm going to speed on that part, you know. I was like really into it. And suddenly I was like broken out of my reverie by him grabbing my arm and going, why didn't you move? You didn't move? The line moved. We were behind those people way up there, you know, And so he pulled me out and said, you're not going on. And those are the kind of memories that I have of my childhood with him, So no wonder. I didn't want to think about it.

00:11:49
Speaker 2: And yeah, you know, but everything changed when you were eight. He gave up his parental rights and Don Brinkley, who really is your dad? Yes, for all intents and purpose, has stepped in and you couldn't understand why your biological father was abandoning you basically, But in retrospect, thank god that that happened.

00:12:10
Speaker 1: Yes, at the time, it was confusing because on the one hand, I really didn't want to see him on his visitations, so it was a relief in a way. But I also thought that I was unlovable, you.

00:12:28
Speaker 2: Know, and even if someone is a horrible father, there is that biological pull and you always want to understand why they don't love you right as much as anything. So I'm sure you just felt this terrible confusion about why he was so willing to give you up.

00:12:50
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I also lived with the constant threat that he was going to send me to the orphanage. And I don't know about you, but I loved Shirley Temple movie and it seemed like Shirley Temple was always being sent to an orphanage. So I thought that was like a fate so terrible. I was truly terrified of that, of being sent to the orphanage. I remember when he came in the room, I just kind of hold steel, like, don't do anything wrong, because you'll end up in the orphanage.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: How do you think you know, I'm sure you've thought about this, but how do you think he shaped you ultimately? I mean, thank god, Dom Brinkley stepped in and was the total opposite and loved you unconditionally. But you must think back of those extremely formative years and young life experiences and wonder, gosh, what do you think that did to me as an adult?

00:13:48
Speaker 1: I think that luckily, you know, my most formative memories I think came because my life was so vivid and so full of life and color. And I mean, Don Brinkley was just the most amazing man, the greatest man, truly he was. He was like a saint in a way. I mean, at the end of his life he had scoliosis ann Parkinson's and the two are a terrible combination because it crunched him down so he really couldn't breathe, and you know, and ended up that he couldn't talk because he had to get a feeding to be breathing, you know, like it was. It was so awful, and he never he never complained. He would it was a rigmarole to get the word. But then it would make you laugh or make you smile, and that was what he did. He was unbelievable, unbelievable from the very beginning. He could have a deadline, you know, for a script do but if I need his help with homework, he was there for me. I'm so choked up because I'm so moved, But my good fortune, my parents were amazing, and so I think I made a conscious choice to escape that part of my life and to leave it behind and not even try to think about it, not try and psycho analyze it, but instead focus on the great part of my life that blossomed in front of me, you know, this great technicolor adventure that he gave our family. He had apartment in Malibu on the beach on Old Malibu Road, and all of a sudden we were, you know, able to wake up and run downstairs and be at the beach and find pebbles and stones, and there was another rock we call Peer Rock and Volcano Rock a little further. That's where our forts were, you know, and of course in the posts behind the houses and stuff. But it was like this whole new world and the hillsides behind us before Pepper dyed, before all of that, I knew every nook and cranny, you know, every canyon, every little waterfall, every little thing. You know, it was just pure magic. It was amazing. So rather than psychoanalyzed, like when I first started writing my book and I tell the story about the day I flew over the cornfield, the first writer that I was working with really wanted to psychoanalyze that moment, and I said, no, No, life is so full of things that we don't understand. I don't want to see backstage at Disneyland. I just want to see the magic. I just want that part.

00:16:49
Speaker 2: The cornfield was when you were escaping mentally, and you would imagine yourself flying over a cornfield to escape your terrible, abusive father. But I'm glad you included that because I think, in contrast, your dad don gave you everything, and it made you appreciate the gift of unconditional love that we should all be so lucky to have that. Sadly, so many people aren't. And I feel the same way about my parents. You know that I never, for one second of my life doubted for one nano second that they didn't love me unconditionally and completely, and that I think you realize as you get older what a gift that is, and how sad it is that not everyone has that.

00:17:42
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely.

00:17:53
Speaker 2: If you want to get smarter every morning with a breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop call sure sign up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. I want to fast forward, though we have so much to cover, and I know we don't have tons of time, but we hopefully have more time to talk about how you went to Paris at nineteen tell us about becoming an artist. I know Alexa describes you as kind of bohemian, but what prompted you to decide I'm going to Paris, I'm going to be an artist. I'm going to live this life. I just always felt it, I knew it.

00:18:42
Speaker 1: I always just had this dream that I would live in a little garrett in Paris. I would wear my beret.

00:18:53
Speaker 2: There's a very cute photo of you in your beret. I know, yes, and everything was pointing me towards that. I remember the film Le de Cherbourg came out, The Umbrellas of Sherbro The Umbrellas of Cherbourg with Catherine.

00:19:10
Speaker 1: De Geneve, and my dad got me the album, and so I would put the needle back and I would sing along, Oh trefoi game unfarm noon, then a pal ou la pelle lola, oh t hepiubi. You know, I was like, I was just like. I loved the music, I loved the language, and I just had to get into the thick of it. If it was the last thing I did so, I don't know. But when the opportunity presented and California was no longer big enough for the two of us, I had a break up with my boyfriend, and so I decided I'll show him. I'll fly away.

00:20:06
Speaker 2: And you did. You flew away to Paris. And I'm going to talk about your first love or your first marriage in a moment. But it was in Paris that you were discovered by photographer Eryl Sawyer. Tell me how he discovered you and how that happened.

00:20:24
Speaker 1: Well, I was living in the garret under the rooftops. I had fallen in love already with Chaffausseus, a French artist, an amazing artist, really really great, and he got drafted into the French military, and so we got this little dog to keep me company. The little dog was sick, so I would put the little dog in a little pannier, you know, over my shoulder and go into the telephoning office because in my little garret, my little latitier, I did not have a shower, or a bathroom or a telephone. So I went a couple blocks away to the Bampoublique, the public baths, and I used the telephone a couple of blocks over, and I would call the vet, and I was calling him almost daily because my dog was sick. And this day, as I was rushing in to call my vet, I literally smashed right into Errol Sawyer, the photographer who had seen me there before and had a client who was looking for California, sporty, California type girl. And he was like, that's the girl at the phone office. I'm going to go back to the phone office and see if I see her. And sure enough, as fate would have it, I came in that day to make the call and he said are you a model? And I said no, and he said, well then you should be, and I have a and he started telling me about it, and then he gave me his name and number address I should say, because he also didn't have a phone, so he said, this is my studio and it wasn't too far from me, and he said, please, please trust me. Come let's do some photos. I'll take them into the model agency. I'll take you into the model agency. And I was like, really, okay. I wasn't sure if this was a line or what. But then I was speaking to a friend of mine, Stephanie, who went to the Lion Los Angeles with me, and she said, no, no, no, I've seen his name on a byline. I'll go with you. Come on, let's go. And so that's how it happened.

00:22:45
Speaker 2: And the rest, as they say, is history, life change. As you wrote on a dime, But you also talk about how your so called flaws, which makes me laugh, that you were too curvy, that you had chipmunk cheeks. Right. I was told my cheeks were too round, my body too curvy. But it turned out those were exactly the things that set me apart. I do remember when you arrived on the scene. I mean, to describe you as curvy is laughable to me, because you have the most beautiful physique. But you know, at the time your body was a bit of an anomaly in terms of what models were looking like. Right.

00:23:28
Speaker 1: I immediately assumed that when you took me into the model agency. They would make me look like them, right, Like I was like, oh, what would.

00:23:37
Speaker 2: They do to me?

00:23:38
Speaker 1: Like I'm picturing you know, they'll do something to my hair. But yeah, that was the thing that set me apart. So sometimes the things that you worry about are the things that make you different and end up to be your key to success. And I was so lucky the timing because modeling just prior to that had been elegant, you know, kind of long, lean, thin, elegant beauties. And then suddenly it was let's get physical physical, you know, with that whole movement of athletics, you know, people starting to work out at home with Jane Fonda, right, I mean I loved I worked out at home with Jane Fonda. I did so many Jane Fonda tapes. The one in the purple that she wore purple, that Alexa found this doll that looked just like it and she called it Jane Aga and we said Jane anam And we had to take that doll all over the world with us on tour, by the way, and Alexa learned to count because I put that on. You know, I was like losing the baby waiter. I was losing the baby wait for the next five years. But I would put that on and Alexa would count.

00:24:51
Speaker 3: She'd go plan two three, make it burn full, five, six and more seven eight, and that make it better.

00:25:02
Speaker 2: Like that, You're such a good mimic. So I know, Christy that four years and ten months you ran into Eryl Sawyer. You were on your first Sports Illustrated cover and that was in nineteen seventy nine. Wow, what was that like?

00:25:23
Speaker 1: Well, you know it was it was like I had no idea, Like I really was clueless. Like they threw a big party for me, and I literally called the agency to say, you know, I don't think I can go to that party, and they were like, what do you mean you can't go to the party? It's for you. I just had no idea. It's like, oh, okay, I was doing my makeup in the car on the way there, you know, sort of wet hair and just throwing myself together. You know. By the third one, I had hear and make people. I had a stylist getting me close, but I really didn't know, Like I was a very reluctant model. I have to say, you know, I don't even know if I had a chance to write that in my memoir. I used to love sitting at a cafe in Paris, for instance, with my little sketch pad and be able to just blend in, you know, and like not be noticed. And then Sports Illustrated. After Sports Illustrated, you get noticed.

00:26:30
Speaker 2: What was that like?

00:26:32
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't like it bothered me, but it was. It was different. It was different. But people have always been very nice. I have to say, you know, because hard.

00:26:42
Speaker 2: For your kids too write. It's sometimes hard because.

00:26:46
Speaker 1: Lesson just thought that we were really popular, Like everybody likes my mom and dad, you know, they have a lot of friends.

00:26:55
Speaker 2: Obviously, You've had such an interesting life in terms of your loves and your marriages, and I wanted to just kind of talk about that because you mentioned Jean Francois, as you said, he was a remarkable artist. You were in a way to peace and a pod I guess at the time, but as your fame increased, and I think this is the tricky part of fame. I think about this like for people who are in marriages when they're both actors, or one person has more success than the other. That really derailed your marriage to Jean Francois in many ways, didn't it.

00:27:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, But you know, as opposed to other people, it was because he had so much character, he was such a great guy that he didn't want to spend my money. I was like, it's not my money. We are a team, you know, I wouldn't be able to do half these things if I didn't know that I was coming home to, you know, my wonderful so so, no, we're a team and we help each other. And he knew, but he became uncomfortable with like, no, I can't really afford a plane ticket right now. And the more opportunities that I had to experience places and things and see things and explore, then he started to become more uncomfortable with it because he couldn't afford it on his dime. And he was successful in what he did, but what he did didn't earn the same kind of money that what I did. I mean, his dream was to work for the New York Times, and he got to do that. But he just, you know, was like the opposite of a lot of guys in a way that you know, most people would be like, oh, sure, buy me a ticket, let's go.

00:28:49
Speaker 2: You know, he didn't want to feel like he was taking advantage of it.

00:28:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't want to feel like that. But it did become a bit of an issue because even though it was a nice way of doing it, like he was nice about it and great about it, I just wanted him to be comfortable with it and let's go, let's keep exploring and doing things.

00:29:09
Speaker 2: And you have to remember, this was a number of decades ago where this I think was a much bigger issue than it is today. I still think it exists, but you know, it was very unusual for the woman to be more financially secure than the man, and I think it was after a lot of cultural conditioning, really hard for I think men to handle it. It's still I think can be, but I think we're much more enlightened now than we were back then, because, as I said, this was when you were nineteen years old, you met Olivier Chandon, you fell for him hard. Tell us about that love affair, Christy.

00:29:55
Speaker 1: Olivier. He was such a great guy, was so extraordinary from the moment I met him. I met him actually the night at Studio fifty four, the first time I ever went to Studio fifty four and Ford models and Sports Illustrated combined to do this party for me. And as I walked in, he walked over and congratulated me on the evening, and I recognized his accent, and so we started to speak a little bit in fringe. You know. He was very handsome, but he you know, everybody was trying to you know, I was like the person that they wanted to take a picture of or whatever.

00:30:37
Speaker 2: Because it was their party, right, yeah.

00:30:40
Speaker 1: And so he didn't want to hang on to me. He was like, ooh, go, everybody wants to you know, go. So I went on, but I was kind of thinking about where did that cute guy go, you know. And then sure enough, the next day I got the most beautiful, giant bouquet of flowers with the loveliest note in French that said, ivanta ser sevanri gesperte lauvois before these these few flowers fade, I hope to see you again.

00:31:14
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:31:14
Speaker 1: I was like, oh. And so then I called my friend Maury Hopson, who I call hops, and I called Hopps and I said, Hops, Hops, that guy Olivier send me flowers. And he's like, wait, Olivier Chandon and I said yes, yes, and he said, Oh my gosh, Christy, he's a count. I said, he's a what he said, he's a count? I said, well, what does that even mean? You know, he's adorable and he sent me flowers and it also mentioned he wanted to take me out for dinner. So I said, so, I'm seeing him later, and it just started like that, Like everywhere we went. He was so worldly, you know, he was so he spoke every language. Obviously, he spoke English really well. He spoke French, he spoke Portuguese, he spoke Spanish. He was like brilliant. He listened to classical music and it moved him and he loved it. And he loved the ballet and he knew all the ballerinas and they all knew him. And he loved art and he loved life. He was a liver, like so was hawks, my best friend at the time. They were both of them. I'd say, you guys are livers, you know, you like to live it up. And they just were the type of people that liked to dive in, you know, and immerse themselves in life. And I loved that, and so I loved going everywhere, you know with Olivier. At the time, that I met him. He was actually working for Otis Elevators, but he wanted to be a race car driver. Was his lifelong dream.

00:33:02
Speaker 2: Whoa wait, the count was working for ODIs Elevator.

00:33:05
Speaker 1: He was working for ODIs Elevators. He was like selling accounts or something, you know, super boring, he thought. And every day he would like drive out of the city to someplace.

00:33:17
Speaker 2: Like that just doesn't square with everything you just told me, I know, but.

00:33:23
Speaker 1: He really, you know, he'd come back and he would like talk about, like, you know, how he wanted to do this other thing. And he started pursuing that, and you know, we went to the different races and I was like, don't do that, that's too risky. But he had a fear of dying, so like he wanted to face the fear of dying.

00:33:46
Speaker 2: And so in nineteen eighty three he did.

00:33:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did. And it was for a person that young and full of life and joy and just somebody who was just so immersed in each and every day, just you know, as soon as he'd get off work. And he turned pretty quickly. I mean, you know, that was just in the very beginning. And then he started, you know, pursuing his dream, and on the one hand, it was his dream that killed him, but it also you know, gave him so much joy doing that. And then yeah, it got him.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: At just twenty seven, which is so so young.

00:34:40
Speaker 1: Way too young, way too young. And it was so shocking to me that the day that it happened. Well, I can't I don't want to say too much because it's such a sad story. All the circumstances surrounding it are confusing and so sad and so awful, and I don't know, I still can't really find the words.

00:35:08
Speaker 2: You know, do you think that you all would have gotten married and lived a life together.

00:35:16
Speaker 1: You know, we spoke about like having a baby someday, but not at the moment because we were both still trying to you know, get our careers stabilized or you know, grow our careers. And he was so enthusiastic about it. I mean I went with him to a race in Chicago. I went with him to Las Vegas, and we would wake up in the morning and you hear the cars buzzing on the track and it was just like this electricity you know, that was charging him, like let's go, let's get there. And when he got you know, had his suit and at his sing suit, and I went with him to one of the things when he spun out on the track. And I begged him after that because we were in some place in California as a speedway and it was kind of desert y, and all of a sudden he hit the dust and the dust plume went up and we didn't know, and we just shot out of there and we were running as fast as we could to get to him. And after that, I was like, please don't do this anymore, Please give it up. It's just too dangerous. It's just too dangerous. And then the last day that I saw him, we were in a little bit of an argument and I didn't kiss him goodbye, And I'll regret that for you know, my whole life. Like I always say, don't ever have an argument and leave. Don't ever do that. We all mean too much to each other to ever let the other one the room angry or upset. You know, So in life, don't anybody listening ever do that. Always make sure that people they know how much you love them.

00:37:33
Speaker 2: In a way, you were still grieving this loss when you met Billy in Saint Bart's. I love that you have that photo from the night you all met, and it sounds like he really was your salvation in a way. And I read that you thought his name was Billy Joe and you didn't really know that much about him, and yet your relationship turned out to be really magical. I know that you write about how you were hurt by these media characterizations of like beauty and the beasts, and that bothered me too. I thought that was hurtful and so shallow. But you know, you are this perfect looking woman, Christy, whether you like it or not. And Billy, you know, was this sort of dark, you know, haired guy, not super tall, with these kind of deep set eyes and kind of this moody look. And what was it that attracted you to Billy? Obviously? I know you say that he's physically hot and intellectually charismatic and that there was this chemistry between you two.

00:38:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny because Katie, the first night that I met him, in same parts, I looked right past him, but he was so funny. I knew that night that I wanted to be friends with him forever. I was like, oh, I'm definitely going to make sure that we stay friends because we laughed. We laughed, and the next night we all went out, you know, the whole gang of us. We all went out for dinner, and again we all laughed. We all laughed, I wrote in my journal, and then we both went home with the wrong person.

00:39:27
Speaker 2: You know.

00:39:28
Speaker 1: But after Olivier died, well even before Olivier died, Billy had called a couple times, and you know, we were on the phone, laughing and being friends, being each other's friend. Then after he died, he waited a little bit and then he called me and he said, you know, I know what you're going through, and I just want to say I want to be there for you in any way I can if you need me, if you want to talk about it, in any way, shape or form, I'm there for you. And he was really sincere about it, and he he really was my friend, and we were friends at first, and I remember being bothered by his hair and his shoes and I literally said to my mom, you know, I'm seeing this guy and I really like him, and he really makes me laugh, and he's we have so much fun together and he's very very different from you know, the from guys that I've been with before, and were's these sort of little pointed shoes, and she said, you can change a man's shoes, you can change a man's hair, but you can't do anything about the rest. So if the rest is good for you, go with it. And so I said, yeah, well, he's got a good heart and a good sense of humor, and she said, go with it. And then I just like, you know, a couple of little tweaks, and he was super hot.

00:41:05
Speaker 2: And where was he in his career at the time. He was really, I mean, listen Billy's body of work, like you can't compare it to anything, I mean to really all the greats. And I know a documentary's coming out about him, which I can't wait to see. But was he on the cusper? Had he already exploded when you met?

00:41:26
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know where he was professionally, because I didn't know any of his work prior to that. But he was professionally just starting a new album, which was amazing because I think he had like one or two songs, and then he was writing as our relationship was growing, and I would be in the studio and he'd be singing, you know these songs, and I was right there through the whole process, and I mean that was pure, pure magic. I love music. To me, I love the arts, but to me, music is the art that literally paints the air around you. They can make you get up out of your chair and dance, or it can remind you of a special moment. It just takes you places and it becomes, you know, the soundtrack to your life. And I felt like in my years with Billy and Alexa, I've been lucky to have like a home full of beautiful music playing all the time. There was somebody at the piano, you know, just filling the air, and oh it was amazing, amazing.

00:42:45
Speaker 2: It kind of came crashing down, or the relationship ended because of Billy's drinking. And you're very honest about this, Christy, And I'm curious how he felt about that and how hard it was to be this honest about the crumbling of your marriage and your relationship.

00:43:07
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know, and I don't want to speak for Billy, but you know I am in his documentary and he said, don't hold back, you know, say whatever you want to say, whatever you're comfortable with, whatever you need to say, whatever I understand. And I'm not gonna be mad or you know, anything he said, just whatever. I think that he's capable of doing that now because I know that in part of his you know, healing was knowing what you did. When a person drinks to a certain point that they don't remember what they did the night before, I think that it's helpful in a way. I don't know. I mean, I certainly am not out to hurt anybody, but I think that you need to know what you did hurt people.

00:44:06
Speaker 2: You all have a really nice relationship now, don't you.

00:44:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I'll always love Billy. I always will. We were together in such formative years, you know, years that really shaped both our futures. You know, we had some of the best years of my life. And you have a daughter, my firstborn, you know, so that was really really special. And you know, Alexi always say to Alexa, you know, Alexa, you got us for the first ten years of your life, you know, without any other siblings to you know, pull our attention away.

00:44:45
Speaker 2: So and I think it's interesting. I've watched a video of you and Alexa going through photos together, which I really enjoyed, and sounds like she's a lot more like Billy than she is.

00:44:57
Speaker 1: You oh, yes, she's are definitely two peas and upond alexa. When she was a little she always categorized people in colors, and she had red and green people, which she and her dad are red and green and blue and yellow people. And I'm a blue and yellow person. So I'm like, oh, like Oshan in the sun, like cozy Christmases, you know. And she said, yes, pretty much like that. Intellectual and not intellectual.

00:45:28
Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I think you give yourself a short shrift. I think you're very smart. I swear I could go all Joe Rogan on you, Christy and like talk for three hours. I'm not going to. But in your acknowledgments you thank your divorce lawyer who said you have a bad picker. Moving after Billy, you did have a couple of relationships which did not turn out the way you had hope, to say the least. I know that one was with Richard Talbman. He was your third husband. I know that you say you quote unquote trauma bonded after you were in a helicopter crash in nineteen ninety four, and I remember when that happened and how scary that was. But that relationship ended up being incredibly disappointing. You say it was chaotic and draining financially and otherwise. Was that kind of your classic rebound relationship you think, Christy, because I know at one point you thought, after the helicopter crash, this was Billy's chance to be a knight and shining armor and come and rescue you, but he didn't. I actually had met this guy on he who shall not be named, Yes, yes, you shall not be I have a few of those.

00:46:50
Speaker 1: But he was kind of working me. I guess, you know, everything that I love. He was into and on the verge of doing or doing. But I actually went skiing because I wanted to show Billy that he could lose me.

00:47:09
Speaker 2: You know.

00:47:09
Speaker 1: I wanted to like remove myself and was kind of just sitting there at home in the Hamptons, you know, So I wanted to be like out and about separated, and I thought maybe he would see that and be like, oh, I need to really pay attention now and clean up my act and go after her. That's what I was hoping for by going to Aspen or to tell your ride on my couple of ski trips that I was doing. But he didn't take the bait, But there was another guy that did show interest and eventually caught my attention in a big way.

00:47:51
Speaker 2: You all ended up having your son Jack, and I know that you write you married Peter Cook, your fourth husband, in nineteen ninety six, and you write for a number of reasons, primarily because I felt both a sense of urgency to find Jack a father figure and terror it that thought that Ricky might swoop back in if I didn't. This is after you all got divorced. I said yes when Peter asked me to marry him later that year. I should preface that question by saying that Ricky got in touch with your biological father, Herb, and even said quote, I'm going to walk away from you and the baby, just like Herb Hudson did. What an asshole? Well, I mean, first of all, that's pretty psychotic.

00:48:43
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe. It was like a time machine, you know, like somebody had reached back into my past and plucked this person out and brought them, you know, inserted him into my life in a way that was so unexpected and cruel that I just couldn't even believe that this was happening. How do you even it was so diabolical to even come up with that concept.

00:49:16
Speaker 2: So you marry Peter. You all looked, on the face of it, like the perfect couple. He's handsome, blonde, he adopts Jack, right, which is great, you have sailor your daughter together, and then he ends up basically having a thing with this teenage girl in the Hamptons, right, who worked at a toy store. Yeah, yeah, Honny me Christy, I have to agree with your divorce lawyer. I know you have a bad picker, I know, and it was.

00:49:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a very bad bad pick on my part. Now, those last two marriages, reading my journals and stuff, I just look at myself and I just like, during the third one, I was like, why didn't I get out of it faster? Why didn't I see that? Although it could make a funny Nancy Meyers.

00:50:20
Speaker 2: Movie, there's always Nancy Meyer.

00:50:25
Speaker 1: Like with distance. Now, oh man, there's stuff there that would just be hilarious, hilarious, But I couldn't laugh a lot while it was going on.

00:50:39
Speaker 2: I'm sure very very very trying, very trying, and so public and so mortifying for you. I felt for you so much during that period of time in your life and where are you now? I mean, do you feel happy and content? I think I know the answer to this, risty Yeah. And do you feel like, gosh, I would like a partner. I know you don't feel like you need a partner at this point in your life.

00:51:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. I you know, whenever something really really exciting, great happy, whether it's like magnificent sunset or anything, you know, an exciting trip or something, that's when I feel like I wish I could share this with somebody. But I very often my house is full, I you know, always have, there's always there's always at least one of the kid home with a group of friends. It's very busy place, and so I'm very content and grateful for what i have. But when there is a very magical sunset, sometimes I feel like going, oh, yeah, there's nobody there.

00:51:58
Speaker 2: You know.

00:51:59
Speaker 1: That's a little sad that, but that's it. You know.

00:52:03
Speaker 2: You describe Olivier Chandon and your friend Hops, who I've never met, so I'm just referring to him again as real livers, not the organ but the attitude. And you know, I feel like you are too. You continue to stay so engaged in the world. You're always you know, you're entrepreneurial, you're politically active. You are I think, living your life to the fullest every single day, and I really admire that about you.

00:52:36
Speaker 1: You know that is I've always felt a sense of gratitude always. My mom and dad raised me like that. But after you know, my death defying life, I feel like I kind of have gratitude on steroids, and I just am like so grateful when I wake up in the morning and I got a new day to dive into. I cannot even leave my property, but feel like, you know, just so ecstatic to be in the day. And whatever it is, whatever that I get into, I enjoy it. I just do, whether it's watering my house plants and look at my little tree here, I am very happy.

00:53:23
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad you wrote a book about your life. We've only scratched the surface of everything that you've experienced, and I highly recommend people read it. I just think you're a very special person. I feel, even though we don't know each other super well, I admire you and feel connected to you and appreciate you.

00:53:49
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that I know that if a band strikes up a song and we know the backup that you'll be up there with me singing backup, I will.

00:54:03
Speaker 2: I just think you're a great person. I really like you. And you know, I was interviewing somebody about the Pope this morning, and I said, what do you think his legacy was? And this Jesuit priest said, he was just a really great person and he was just really really loved. And I don't know, I feel the same. Not that I'm comparing you to Pope Francis.

00:54:24
Speaker 1: But the Pope loved everybody. The Pope like literally loved everyone. And I think that's why I loved the Pope, you know, because I loved his love. And that's what we all need to do right now, is we all need to just say stop everything, Let's just love one another. Let's just stop this madness going on in Washington. Just stop, and let's just go back to just let's just love. Let's try and be friends with everybody. Let's just you know, it's time for love. Because love is the strongest thing in the world.

00:55:13
Speaker 2: We know that it's a.

00:55:15
Speaker 1: Fact, and it's time for love to prevail. It's time.

00:55:20
Speaker 2: Christy. Thank you. Speaking of time, you've given me a lot of viewers, so thank you. My team is probably like, Katie, when is she going to stop? She's been talking to Christie Brinkley No, for like an hour and a half, But there were so many things I wanted to talk with you about. I hope I get to see you in person soon and.

00:55:41
Speaker 1: Call me when you're out and let's eat and keep up the good work, Katie.

00:55:46
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm trying, Honey, I'm trying.

00:55:48
Speaker 1: Thank you, happy, trying hell again until I figure out how to find the off button. You kill me? Love you too.

00:56:01
Speaker 2: The end A little Roxyheart ladies and gentlemen, Thanks for listening. Everyone. If you have a question for me, a subject you want us to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you. Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music. For more information about today's episode, or to sign up for my newsletter Wake Up Call, go to the description in the podcast app, or visit us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.