#5: Stalled Progress? Here's the Leadership Framework That Unlocks Growth

WEBVTT

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Thinking about it.

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There we go.

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Okay.

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We are recording.

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Love it.

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Every leader wants a high performing team,

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of course, but the reality,

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most leaders don't know how to build one.

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Some create a culture of

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high pressure with little

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support and others are so

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focused on being liked by

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their team that they shield

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their team from any challenges.

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The best leaders,

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they strike the balance

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between pushing people

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forward and setting them up for success.

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And that's exactly what the

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Empower Matrix is designed

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to help you do.

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Hi, I'm Eric Pfeiffer.

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And in this episode,

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I am joined by Don Neldon.

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We're going to show you how

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to lead in a way that truly

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sets your team up for

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sustainable success.

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yes we are and we have

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worked with enough leaders

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to know that most leaders

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fall into one of two

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categories and I'm sure for

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everybody that is joining

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us today uh some of the

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leaders from your past will

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spring to mind here but we

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have on one end leaders

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that just have so much

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challenge and it just feels

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like you can never do enough we

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We have all been in that

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space where the bar,

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anytime you reach the bar,

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the bar is moved, right?

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And it's not necessarily

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coming from a bad place.

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They are constantly wanting

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to get the most out of people.

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And they feel like the way

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to do that is to just keep pushing,

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keep pushing, keep challenging.

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So that's one thing.

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mistake that we find,

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one error that leaders fall into.

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The other side of that pendulum, though,

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is that we have leaders

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that are so worried about

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being liked that they are just

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supporting the heck out of

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their team which sounds

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lovely but in reality what

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it does is it produces

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complacent team members

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that feel like it doesn't

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like there's nothing I'm

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reaching for there's

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nothing that we're striving

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for as a team so I might as

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well just do the bare

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minimum yeah and we'll and

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we'll get through it and it

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creates a sense of

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complacency the bigger

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issue though is most

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leaders don't even realize

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that they have a default

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that they're doing one of

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these things over the other.

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And they don't realize what

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environment that's creating

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for their team.

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I couldn't agree more.

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When I think of these two,

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what I like to call

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leadership energies that we

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bring into any environment,

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I like to think of them

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like the gas and brake pedal of your car.

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We all understand that

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without one of those, it doesn't work.

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If it's all gas,

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then we're inevitably just

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going to run into stuff.

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And if it's all brakes,

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we're not going to get anywhere.

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That's a good analogy.

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Yeah,

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as we talk about the Empower Matrix

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and as we talk about what

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does it mean for us to

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calibrate as leaders,

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high support or high challenge,

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they're both equally valuable.

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They're both equally

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important in terms of how

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we're engaging the people

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in our environments.

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And it's when we find the

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appropriate calibration,

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just like learning to drive,

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we can learn how to

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appropriately calibrate

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these energies so that we

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are actually getting the

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best out of our teams.

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Absolutely.

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And I think that is the

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magic of this tool is

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helping leaders to

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understand their default

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and then how that is

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actually causing their team

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to respond and react in the workplace.

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So Eric,

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would you just lay out the empower

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matrix for us?

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Teach us how this tool works.

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Yeah, so as we jump into this tool, which,

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by the way,

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is available in a link in our

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show notes so that you can

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see the visual image when

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you have a moment.

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It's very helpful.

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I think I would encourage our listener,

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as we're unpacking this tool,

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to be thinking about all of

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the different dynamic

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leaders that they've

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experienced in life from

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growing up in a particular

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household where mom and dad

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or whoever was in charge,

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they were calibrating

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support and challenge.

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And how did they do that?

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And so I want us to reflect

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on our upbringing,

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our experience at home.

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I want us to think about our

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experience with different

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teachers in our younger

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years or professors through

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our college years.

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I want us to think about the

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different bosses that we've had.

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I want us to think about the

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different coaches.

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Maybe we played sports or we

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were involved maybe even in

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music instruction.

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Because what's important to

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understand is that in every

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engagement between human beings,

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we are calibrating support and challenge.

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As a matter of fact,

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when I go in to order a

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Starbucks at a local Starbucks,

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my engagement with that

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person taking my order,

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I'm calibrating support and challenge.

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Absolutely.

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If I'm making eye contact, if I'm smiling,

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I'm kind.

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At a grocery store, if they're asking me,

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hey,

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did you find everything that you were

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looking for?

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That's an expression of support.

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I'm here to help you.

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How can I partner you to help you succeed?

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But there's also a bit of challenge,

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right?

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So the challenge from the

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grocery store clerk is, hey,

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I'm going to need some

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money because if you want

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to exchange goods for something,

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it's going to be some money.

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And the challenge is you've

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got to pay for it.

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You've got to pay the full amount.

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No different than if I'm in

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a restaurant and the person

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waiting on us is really

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dropping the ball and

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unfocused and not attending to our needs,

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I might challenge them by

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leaving a smaller tip than

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I normally would.

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So it's just really good to

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understand what this looks

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like in our everyday life experience.

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But of course,

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we're going to ultimately

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frame this through the lens

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of what does it mean for us as leaders

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to calibrate our leadership

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energies to get the best out of our team,

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to empower our team members

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most effectively.

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And that's why it's called

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the Empower Matrix.

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And so what I want our listener,

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whether you're on a walk or

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you're driving in your car,

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as you're listening,

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is I want you to imagine in

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your mind a simple matrix,

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a vertical axis and a horizontal axis.

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And on the vertical axis,

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we're going to talk about support.

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this leadership energy of support.

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And support can be

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understood in a variety of ways.

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It can be understood through encouragement,

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resourcing our team members with,

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it could be technology,

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it could be with different

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help that they need.

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It could be,

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support could look like

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encouraging people to go

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home when they're sick,

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giving them a day off

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because their family's in town.

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Support could look like

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helping them out on a particular project.

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project, lending your expertise, right?

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So these are all just

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different expressions of support.

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And on this vertical axis,

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as we go up on the axis,

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we have high support.

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And on the bottom of that axis,

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we would refer to that as low support.

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On the horizontal axis, we have challenge.

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And we're not talking about,

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I think sometimes when we

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think of challenge,

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we think of it from a

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negative perspective.

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That somebody's policing us,

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somebody's harming us,

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somebody's abusing us.

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No,

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we're talking about a positive challenge.

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In other words,

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when a leader sets really

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clear expectations,

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when a leader is willing to

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hold their team members accountable,

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to partner with them, to say, hey,

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I believe you can do something better.

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I believe you can deliver at

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a higher level.

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in those other people.

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That's positive challenge.

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And we all know that we

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don't grow without a proper

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degree of challenge.

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Our coaches challenged us to

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get more fit or to develop

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our skills for that particular sport.

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Our teachers challenged us

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to learn a kind of

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mathematics that we didn't

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know previously.

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Professors challenged us to

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rewrite an essay because

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they believed we could do a better job.

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Our bosses challenge us

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because why we need

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challenge if we're gonna

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move outside of our comfort

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zone and have an

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opportunity to grow or develop.

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So oftentimes I like to

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think of this analogy of

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like when people decide, hey,

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I wanna get more fit.

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So they go to a gym,

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And they hire a trainer.

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So imagine the trainer that

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shows up and says, hey,

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great to meet you.

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I'm your trainer.

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I want to get to know all about you.

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Let's go to the smoothie bar.

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I want to hear all about it,

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your life and your fitness

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history and about your

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family and your upbringing.

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Like, wow,

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this person really cares about me,

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wants to know me,

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is very supportive in that experience.

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But if every time you show up to the gym,

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the trainer does the same thing.

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They just want to go to the

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smoothie bar and hear about

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your week and empathize

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with your challenges.

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That feels good.

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And that's a great kind of energy.

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But at some point you're

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going to start to wonder,

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what am I paying this person for?

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They're not actually

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challenging me to do

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anything about my fitness.

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I'm not getting any stronger.

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I'm not moving the needle.

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Now imagine the opposite,

00:09:05.418 --> 00:09:07.019
a trainer that when you show up,

00:09:07.458 --> 00:09:08.379
they don't wanna know

00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:09.539
anything about your history.

00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:11.020
They don't care about your lifestyle.

00:09:11.041 --> 00:09:12.282
They don't care about your schedule.

00:09:12.302 --> 00:09:13.243
They just wanna get right

00:09:13.283 --> 00:09:14.822
into some really intense

00:09:15.244 --> 00:09:17.304
workout routines that has

00:09:17.345 --> 00:09:19.625
you feeling sore for the next three days.

00:09:19.645 --> 00:09:20.647
Then you show back up.

00:09:21.067 --> 00:09:21.727
Immediately,

00:09:21.748 --> 00:09:23.389
they just jump right back into

00:09:23.469 --> 00:09:24.870
the craziest workouts that

00:09:24.889 --> 00:09:25.490
you could imagine,

00:09:25.971 --> 00:09:27.272
never wanting to know about,

00:09:27.351 --> 00:09:28.432
have you ever had injuries?

00:09:28.493 --> 00:09:30.115
What are the areas that you

00:09:30.174 --> 00:09:31.395
really want to focus on?

00:09:31.456 --> 00:09:32.856
What are your fitness goals?

00:09:34.378 --> 00:09:37.980
Now we have examples of a fitness trainer,

00:09:38.201 --> 00:09:40.462
one that's all support, no challenge.

00:09:41.302 --> 00:09:43.144
which may may feel good in

00:09:43.164 --> 00:09:43.845
the moment but it's not

00:09:43.865 --> 00:09:44.745
going to lead to any growth

00:09:45.265 --> 00:09:46.326
or you have the trainer

00:09:46.346 --> 00:09:47.587
that's all challenge and no

00:09:47.628 --> 00:09:49.669
support and that trainer is

00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:50.811
probably going to cause

00:09:50.951 --> 00:09:52.773
injury and I think even now

00:09:52.832 --> 00:09:53.894
as our listeners are

00:09:53.933 --> 00:09:55.936
reflecting on this analogy

00:09:55.956 --> 00:09:57.317
we can probably think back

00:09:57.917 --> 00:09:59.558
to our parents and how they

00:09:59.599 --> 00:10:00.720
calibrated support and

00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:01.760
challenge and how did that

00:10:01.841 --> 00:10:03.621
leave us feeling or what

00:10:03.642 --> 00:10:04.643
was our experience with

00:10:04.702 --> 00:10:05.783
various teachers mentors

00:10:05.823 --> 00:10:07.905
coaches and bosses now

00:10:09.229 --> 00:10:10.850
Because we have these two

00:10:10.971 --> 00:10:12.692
axes that crisscross,

00:10:12.731 --> 00:10:14.273
we get four quadrants.

00:10:15.173 --> 00:10:16.916
And imagine in that top

00:10:16.975 --> 00:10:17.836
right quadrant where

00:10:17.855 --> 00:10:20.639
there's high support and high challenge,

00:10:20.698 --> 00:10:22.780
we call this the empowered

00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:24.982
quadrant because it represents

00:10:25.623 --> 00:10:27.644
a kind of culture where

00:10:28.083 --> 00:10:29.884
people are experiencing the

00:10:29.924 --> 00:10:32.166
appropriate amount of high expectations,

00:10:32.245 --> 00:10:34.006
responsibility, accountability,

00:10:34.427 --> 00:10:35.648
but they're also receiving

00:10:35.687 --> 00:10:37.769
the necessary support, encouragement,

00:10:37.828 --> 00:10:40.070
resourcing to give that

00:10:40.110 --> 00:10:42.770
person the best possible chance to grow,

00:10:42.811 --> 00:10:43.511
to develop,

00:10:43.652 --> 00:10:45.491
and to become a better version

00:10:45.532 --> 00:10:46.173
of themselves.

00:10:47.193 --> 00:10:48.774
And this is an incredible experience.

00:10:48.815 --> 00:10:50.096
And most of our listeners

00:10:50.115 --> 00:10:51.797
could probably think back to say, gosh,

00:10:52.398 --> 00:10:53.979
I remember this one leader

00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:55.461
in my life that was

00:10:56.481 --> 00:10:57.923
probably my favorite leader,

00:10:57.962 --> 00:10:59.423
the one that impacted me the most,

00:10:59.443 --> 00:11:02.005
the one that made me want to get better.

00:11:02.407 --> 00:11:03.868
And we probably can think back and say,

00:11:03.888 --> 00:11:04.187
gosh,

00:11:04.629 --> 00:11:06.870
they probably calibrated these two

00:11:06.931 --> 00:11:07.910
energies of support and

00:11:07.931 --> 00:11:09.533
challenge really well.

00:11:10.225 --> 00:11:10.404
right,

00:11:10.445 --> 00:11:12.187
they were never overdoing one or the

00:11:12.287 --> 00:11:12.466
other,

00:11:12.486 --> 00:11:14.908
they were well balanced or integrated.

00:11:15.889 --> 00:11:17.410
And those are wonderful experiences,

00:11:17.630 --> 00:11:19.351
I can think back on a time

00:11:19.392 --> 00:11:20.673
when I've experienced that

00:11:20.732 --> 00:11:22.475
from various leaders in my life.

00:11:22.514 --> 00:11:23.514
And that's usually when I

00:11:23.554 --> 00:11:24.596
experienced the greatest

00:11:24.655 --> 00:11:25.797
amount of personal

00:11:25.817 --> 00:11:28.078
transformation and growth.

00:11:28.099 --> 00:11:29.120
But the reality is,

00:11:30.325 --> 00:11:31.264
we talked about this earlier,

00:11:31.304 --> 00:11:32.865
you mentioned that a lot of leaders,

00:11:33.025 --> 00:11:34.525
we tend to default to one

00:11:34.566 --> 00:11:35.927
of those energies more than

00:11:35.947 --> 00:11:37.947
the other for a variety of reasons,

00:11:38.006 --> 00:11:41.548
personality type, life experiences, fears,

00:11:41.587 --> 00:11:44.729
insecurities, whatever may be driving us.

00:11:45.190 --> 00:11:46.750
And so we tend to calibrate

00:11:47.370 --> 00:11:48.630
one more than the other,

00:11:48.951 --> 00:11:50.331
which then starts to create

00:11:50.350 --> 00:11:52.111
these other three quadrants.

00:11:52.692 --> 00:11:53.631
And I almost like to think

00:11:53.652 --> 00:11:55.952
of it like a map, like you can plot

00:11:56.712 --> 00:11:58.534
any area of your life on

00:11:58.575 --> 00:11:59.836
this map to say am I am I

00:11:59.876 --> 00:12:00.898
feeling empowered in this

00:12:00.937 --> 00:12:02.239
season in whatever area I'm

00:12:02.278 --> 00:12:03.821
thinking about or am I

00:12:03.860 --> 00:12:05.023
experiencing one of these

00:12:05.123 --> 00:12:05.984
other three quadrants so

00:12:06.004 --> 00:12:06.784
really quickly let me just

00:12:06.924 --> 00:12:07.846
unpack those other three

00:12:07.865 --> 00:12:09.447
quadrants yeah so in the

00:12:09.508 --> 00:12:10.849
top left quadrant you would

00:12:10.948 --> 00:12:11.809
have according to our

00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:14.312
visual you'd have a culture

00:12:14.352 --> 00:12:16.455
or environment that is highly supportive

00:12:17.267 --> 00:12:19.467
but very little challenge.

00:12:20.087 --> 00:12:21.568
And you mentioned this earlier, right?

00:12:21.589 --> 00:12:22.428
This is gonna create an

00:12:22.489 --> 00:12:24.409
environment where people feel cared for,

00:12:24.570 --> 00:12:25.971
encouraged, supported,

00:12:26.410 --> 00:12:28.912
but very little way by expectation,

00:12:28.971 --> 00:12:30.993
responsibility, accountability.

00:12:31.592 --> 00:12:33.974
And so people oftentimes when I say, hey,

00:12:34.433 --> 00:12:35.554
give me words that might

00:12:35.595 --> 00:12:37.394
describe this environment

00:12:37.434 --> 00:12:38.676
people have shared with me.

00:12:39.135 --> 00:12:39.235
Oh,

00:12:39.255 --> 00:12:41.616
that sounds like it's a cozy culture or

00:12:41.657 --> 00:12:43.138
it's a comfortable culture.

00:12:43.697 --> 00:12:46.100
Or maybe it leads to a sense

00:12:46.181 --> 00:12:47.481
of entitlement, right?

00:12:47.522 --> 00:12:48.962
Everything's going to be done for me.

00:12:49.003 --> 00:12:50.544
I don't have to lift a hand, a finger.

00:12:51.426 --> 00:12:52.025
Other people,

00:12:52.086 --> 00:12:54.107
it becomes a complacent

00:12:54.207 --> 00:12:55.389
environment where people

00:12:55.450 --> 00:12:56.610
are no longer growing

00:12:57.772 --> 00:12:58.592
because they just feel

00:12:58.633 --> 00:12:59.693
really comfortable and it's

00:12:59.813 --> 00:13:01.596
easier to just stay status quo.

00:13:02.956 --> 00:13:04.518
And we don't want to be in that quadrant,

00:13:04.677 --> 00:13:05.599
but at the same time,

00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:07.061
we have to recognize that

00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:09.022
we may discover that parts

00:13:09.062 --> 00:13:10.582
of our life are in that quadrant.

00:13:10.623 --> 00:13:12.342
I know for me and for many

00:13:12.383 --> 00:13:13.163
people out there,

00:13:13.663 --> 00:13:15.284
at least once or twice a year,

00:13:15.585 --> 00:13:17.004
I realize or come to

00:13:17.085 --> 00:13:19.326
recognize my fitness

00:13:19.927 --> 00:13:21.528
journey has fallen into the

00:13:21.567 --> 00:13:22.847
complacent quadrant.

00:13:22.868 --> 00:13:24.149
I'm not working out like I should.

00:13:24.168 --> 00:13:25.369
I'm not eating like I should.

00:13:25.729 --> 00:13:27.549
I'm letting myself off the hook.

00:13:29.250 --> 00:13:30.772
I'm being too easy on myself.

00:13:30.831 --> 00:13:32.452
And so that's when I realized, okay,

00:13:32.493 --> 00:13:33.253
something's not right and

00:13:33.273 --> 00:13:33.932
it's got to change.

00:13:33.972 --> 00:13:35.254
And we'll come back to that in a moment.

00:13:35.793 --> 00:13:37.434
Now let's imagine the opposite,

00:13:37.455 --> 00:13:38.775
the lower right quadrant,

00:13:39.196 --> 00:13:40.136
where you have a high

00:13:40.177 --> 00:13:43.418
degree of challenge but very low support.

00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:45.480
And in this quadrant,

00:13:45.520 --> 00:13:47.642
when I ask clients in the

00:13:47.682 --> 00:13:49.062
past to describe this

00:13:49.143 --> 00:13:50.924
environment with words, they would say,

00:13:51.504 --> 00:13:52.525
it's stressed.

00:13:53.225 --> 00:13:55.288
It's overwhelming.

00:13:55.808 --> 00:13:56.729
It feels burdensome.

00:13:56.769 --> 00:13:57.509
It feels like you're on the

00:13:57.590 --> 00:13:59.010
treadmill of approval,

00:13:59.032 --> 00:14:00.352
like you're never quite doing enough,

00:14:00.393 --> 00:14:01.394
which you said earlier.

00:14:02.234 --> 00:14:03.676
People become very discouraged.

00:14:03.696 --> 00:14:04.476
And oftentimes,

00:14:04.557 --> 00:14:06.118
this is the quadrant where

00:14:06.658 --> 00:14:08.559
people experience burnout.

00:14:08.580 --> 00:14:09.561
Oh, yeah.

00:14:09.581 --> 00:14:10.562
We just feel like we're going, going,

00:14:10.581 --> 00:14:11.623
going, going, going, going.

00:14:11.663 --> 00:14:12.903
We're never quite doing enough.

00:14:13.764 --> 00:14:15.125
And we feel ill-supported,

00:14:15.245 --> 00:14:17.688
ill-cared for in that process.

00:14:18.889 --> 00:14:19.950
And so that's that would be

00:14:19.970 --> 00:14:21.010
the opposite of the

00:14:21.030 --> 00:14:22.291
quadrant we just described.

00:14:22.311 --> 00:14:23.750
So now we have the two kind

00:14:23.811 --> 00:14:25.812
of opposite ends of the spectrum.

00:14:25.871 --> 00:14:27.351
We have the high support,

00:14:27.412 --> 00:14:29.692
low challenge in place.

00:14:30.753 --> 00:14:32.874
Or we have high challenge and low support,

00:14:32.974 --> 00:14:33.754
which is stressed,

00:14:33.994 --> 00:14:35.594
burned out and discouraged.

00:14:36.073 --> 00:14:36.794
And then we have this.

00:14:37.315 --> 00:14:37.794
Oh, go ahead.

00:14:37.835 --> 00:14:38.315
Yeah.

00:14:38.375 --> 00:14:39.514
I was just going to say that

00:14:39.654 --> 00:14:41.816
two kind of leadership challenges.

00:14:42.648 --> 00:14:44.409
pitfalls that we see often

00:14:44.590 --> 00:14:46.792
in both of those two is in

00:14:46.832 --> 00:14:47.874
the high support low

00:14:47.894 --> 00:14:49.294
challenge we see leaders

00:14:49.315 --> 00:14:50.316
that are rescuing their

00:14:50.336 --> 00:14:52.217
people so they're running

00:14:52.238 --> 00:14:54.760
interference keeping um

00:14:54.780 --> 00:14:55.961
their team members from

00:14:56.062 --> 00:14:57.123
experiencing the

00:14:57.182 --> 00:14:58.504
consequences of their

00:14:58.524 --> 00:14:59.605
decisions good bad or

00:14:59.645 --> 00:15:01.327
otherwise and then on the

00:15:01.508 --> 00:15:02.668
on the other side we see

00:15:03.975 --> 00:15:05.677
Leaders who are throwing

00:15:05.697 --> 00:15:06.417
their team members under

00:15:06.437 --> 00:15:09.480
the bus or pushing that

00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:10.780
responsibility when it was

00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:12.302
actually the responsibility

00:15:12.322 --> 00:15:13.123
should have been on the leader.

00:15:13.163 --> 00:15:14.423
And so those are kind of two

00:15:14.903 --> 00:15:17.506
behaviors that we see that

00:15:17.606 --> 00:15:19.168
typify those opposite ends

00:15:19.227 --> 00:15:20.048
of the spectrum when it

00:15:20.089 --> 00:15:21.409
comes to support and challenge.

00:15:21.897 --> 00:15:23.498
Yeah, those are great examples.

00:15:23.817 --> 00:15:24.899
And I'm sure our listeners

00:15:24.938 --> 00:15:26.340
can almost immediately

00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:28.642
imagine how this might look

00:15:28.822 --> 00:15:29.582
in the terms of the

00:15:29.643 --> 00:15:32.424
parenting culture that they grew up in.

00:15:32.705 --> 00:15:34.466
Or as adults,

00:15:34.505 --> 00:15:37.408
if we have children and we are parenting,

00:15:38.208 --> 00:15:39.149
this is going to begin to

00:15:39.168 --> 00:15:40.070
give us some insight into

00:15:40.110 --> 00:15:40.890
how we're handling our

00:15:40.931 --> 00:15:42.091
children and whether we're

00:15:42.432 --> 00:15:43.773
creating an empowering

00:15:43.952 --> 00:15:45.673
environment for our children or not.

00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.301
The fourth quadrant, lower left quadrant,

00:15:49.441 --> 00:15:51.900
low support, low challenge.

00:15:53.361 --> 00:15:54.782
This is an environment that

00:15:54.841 --> 00:15:55.662
when I ask clients,

00:15:55.701 --> 00:15:57.923
describe this experience of

00:15:57.962 --> 00:15:58.842
this kind of an environment,

00:15:58.883 --> 00:16:02.144
they say it feels apathetic, dead, boring,

00:16:02.543 --> 00:16:03.443
unmotivated,

00:16:04.703 --> 00:16:05.705
and mainly because it's an

00:16:05.725 --> 00:16:07.125
environment where we feel left alone.

00:16:07.725 --> 00:16:09.306
where we feel we've been abandoned.

00:16:09.666 --> 00:16:11.067
We feel like nobody cares

00:16:11.106 --> 00:16:12.106
whether we're winning or

00:16:12.148 --> 00:16:13.168
not or whether we're doing

00:16:13.207 --> 00:16:13.947
anything or not.

00:16:14.448 --> 00:16:16.330
And I would suggest this,

00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:20.011
that I believe that so much

00:16:20.371 --> 00:16:26.975
of the criticism that I've

00:16:27.135 --> 00:16:28.677
heard from leaders and

00:16:28.716 --> 00:16:30.216
organizations about remote

00:16:30.277 --> 00:16:32.578
work has to do with the

00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.620
fact that as human beings,

00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:39.984
we require an experience of

00:16:40.083 --> 00:16:41.043
high support and high

00:16:41.083 --> 00:16:42.384
challenge for us to feel

00:16:42.465 --> 00:16:44.427
empowered and to actually

00:16:45.067 --> 00:16:47.148
move the needle in any area of our work.

00:16:47.788 --> 00:16:49.909
And so here's what I challenge though,

00:16:50.210 --> 00:16:51.010
these leaders and organizations.

00:16:51.071 --> 00:16:51.630
I say, yes,

00:16:52.111 --> 00:16:53.773
you're probably experiencing

00:16:53.793 --> 00:16:54.712
that a lot of your remote

00:16:54.753 --> 00:16:58.816
workers are not showing up well,

00:16:58.855 --> 00:16:59.937
they're not showing up to meetings,

00:16:59.956 --> 00:17:01.398
they're not accomplishing tasks,

00:17:01.758 --> 00:17:03.339
they feel unaccountable and

00:17:03.438 --> 00:17:04.038
on and on and on.

00:17:04.278 --> 00:17:04.619
And I say,

00:17:05.742 --> 00:17:06.222
I agree,

00:17:06.242 --> 00:17:07.384
and that's probably because

00:17:07.403 --> 00:17:08.644
they're not experiencing

00:17:09.164 --> 00:17:10.566
the levels of support and

00:17:10.605 --> 00:17:12.247
challenge that they need to

00:17:12.366 --> 00:17:13.688
operate more effectively.

00:17:13.748 --> 00:17:14.327
However,

00:17:15.209 --> 00:17:17.289
I am a believer that you can

00:17:17.329 --> 00:17:18.830
provide high support and

00:17:18.871 --> 00:17:21.093
high challenge even for

00:17:21.192 --> 00:17:23.013
remote working contexts.

00:17:24.375 --> 00:17:26.634
We can do that through regular Zoom calls,

00:17:26.715 --> 00:17:28.276
check ins, review sessions,

00:17:28.296 --> 00:17:28.997
some of which we've already

00:17:29.057 --> 00:17:31.778
talked about in our previous podcast.

00:17:32.278 --> 00:17:33.377
But it is possible.

00:17:33.417 --> 00:17:34.038
But as leaders,

00:17:34.078 --> 00:17:35.398
if we're not aware of the

00:17:35.439 --> 00:17:38.221
type of energy that our team members need,

00:17:38.260 --> 00:17:40.000
whether they're in person or remote.

00:17:42.034 --> 00:17:43.974
then at some point we've got

00:17:43.994 --> 00:17:45.076
to ask the hard question,

00:17:45.576 --> 00:17:46.757
is it the fault of our

00:17:46.817 --> 00:17:48.699
remote employees or is it

00:17:48.739 --> 00:17:50.220
the fault of us as leaders

00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.182
that we're not providing these energies?

00:17:53.201 --> 00:17:54.001
So let me pause here.

00:17:54.021 --> 00:17:54.803
I have a couple more things

00:17:54.823 --> 00:17:56.804
that I want to share for our listeners,

00:17:57.344 --> 00:17:58.964
but I'd love to hear, Dawn, for you.

00:17:59.025 --> 00:17:59.705
Obviously,

00:17:59.726 --> 00:18:01.426
we've taught this tool so many times.

00:18:01.467 --> 00:18:03.307
We've seen the impact in the

00:18:03.327 --> 00:18:04.628
environments in which we introduce.

00:18:04.689 --> 00:18:05.410
I'd love to hear what you're

00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:07.250
connecting with.

00:18:07.691 --> 00:18:09.833
Yeah, well, for starters, I think,

00:18:10.705 --> 00:18:11.865
you are spot on when it

00:18:11.905 --> 00:18:13.426
comes to that idea of remote work.

00:18:13.507 --> 00:18:15.047
And what it requires is an

00:18:15.166 --> 00:18:15.728
extra level of

00:18:15.768 --> 00:18:17.087
intentionality from leaders.

00:18:17.748 --> 00:18:20.608
Because often two things are at play there,

00:18:21.189 --> 00:18:22.088
out of sight, out of mind.

00:18:22.490 --> 00:18:23.549
So leaders are just going

00:18:23.890 --> 00:18:25.170
about their daily business

00:18:25.250 --> 00:18:26.691
and they're not physically

00:18:26.891 --> 00:18:28.211
running into those employees.

00:18:28.310 --> 00:18:29.311
And so they're missing those

00:18:29.332 --> 00:18:30.172
connection points without

00:18:30.192 --> 00:18:31.051
that intentionality.

00:18:31.692 --> 00:18:33.452
And two, our own negativity bias.

00:18:33.512 --> 00:18:35.673
If we don't know what somebody is doing,

00:18:35.713 --> 00:18:36.854
we assume that they're not

00:18:36.894 --> 00:18:38.153
doing it or they're doing it poorly.

00:18:38.634 --> 00:18:40.434
And so those two things combined

00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:42.240
can really create a

00:18:42.280 --> 00:18:44.682
difficult position for a remote worker.

00:18:44.741 --> 00:18:46.042
And that's why it requires

00:18:46.123 --> 00:18:48.443
the intentionality of the

00:18:48.483 --> 00:18:50.905
leader to overcome that.

00:18:50.945 --> 00:18:53.166
But I also want to add that

00:18:53.307 --> 00:18:54.887
in that lower left quadrant

00:18:55.548 --> 00:18:56.990
with low support and low challenge,

00:18:57.369 --> 00:18:59.330
this is where we see this

00:19:01.612 --> 00:19:02.692
new phrase that has been

00:19:02.873 --> 00:19:03.854
springing into the world,

00:19:03.874 --> 00:19:04.993
which is quiet quitting.

00:19:07.381 --> 00:19:07.661
Right?

00:19:08.320 --> 00:19:09.701
It's where people can just

00:19:09.801 --> 00:19:11.883
exist doing the bare minimum,

00:19:12.063 --> 00:19:13.182
flying under the radar,

00:19:13.782 --> 00:19:14.963
and nobody really knows.

00:19:15.604 --> 00:19:17.105
It's like the guy from the office,

00:19:17.684 --> 00:19:18.704
from office space, right?

00:19:18.724 --> 00:19:20.586
That they moved him around

00:19:20.685 --> 00:19:21.645
for different offices.

00:19:21.786 --> 00:19:23.027
Eventually to the basement.

00:19:23.047 --> 00:19:25.407
Yeah.

00:19:25.627 --> 00:19:26.827
Because nobody even knew

00:19:26.847 --> 00:19:27.769
what he was doing.

00:19:27.788 --> 00:19:28.548
Yeah.

00:19:29.453 --> 00:19:30.894
So quiet quitting is a

00:19:30.974 --> 00:19:32.934
definite threat in this

00:19:32.994 --> 00:19:34.035
lower left quadrant that

00:19:34.076 --> 00:19:35.276
leaders need to be aware of.

00:19:35.395 --> 00:19:36.655
It's just one more reason,

00:19:36.695 --> 00:19:37.856
like each of the quadrants

00:19:37.876 --> 00:19:39.497
have their own threats and

00:19:39.517 --> 00:19:40.637
it's why it's so important

00:19:40.657 --> 00:19:41.877
to understand how we're

00:19:41.917 --> 00:19:42.798
calibrating support and

00:19:42.837 --> 00:19:43.979
challenge as leaders.

00:19:43.999 --> 00:19:46.098
Oh, I love that.

00:19:46.118 --> 00:19:46.960
And in a few minutes,

00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:47.920
we'll get to some practical

00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:49.079
applications and reflective

00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:50.020
questions that we want to

00:19:50.060 --> 00:19:53.142
encourage our listeners to, to engage.

00:19:53.201 --> 00:19:53.382
Right.

00:19:53.422 --> 00:19:54.961
Because I think what we're

00:19:55.041 --> 00:19:57.002
both pointing at is.

00:19:58.751 --> 00:20:00.413
that we as leaders bear the

00:20:00.472 --> 00:20:02.653
primary responsibility for

00:20:02.913 --> 00:20:04.575
recognizing the kind of

00:20:04.694 --> 00:20:05.955
environment or culture that

00:20:06.016 --> 00:20:07.016
we are creating.

00:20:07.616 --> 00:20:09.238
And I would go so far as to say,

00:20:09.317 --> 00:20:10.577
I think most leaders are

00:20:10.678 --> 00:20:13.619
generally unaware of the

00:20:13.819 --> 00:20:15.580
prevailing environment that

00:20:15.601 --> 00:20:17.442
they're creating with their teams, right?

00:20:17.461 --> 00:20:19.163
I mean, the number of leaders that,

00:20:19.323 --> 00:20:20.284
you know, when you...

00:20:21.144 --> 00:20:22.545
when you ask their team,

00:20:22.744 --> 00:20:23.424
which of these four

00:20:23.444 --> 00:20:25.144
quadrants most reflects

00:20:25.204 --> 00:20:28.826
your experience in this job space?

00:20:29.527 --> 00:20:31.968
And then you ask the leader separately,

00:20:32.008 --> 00:20:33.628
what would you say you're creating?

00:20:34.108 --> 00:20:35.588
Very often leaders will say, well,

00:20:35.608 --> 00:20:36.249
I think I'm creating an

00:20:36.269 --> 00:20:37.309
empowered environment.

00:20:37.849 --> 00:20:38.891
I think I'm providing a

00:20:38.931 --> 00:20:39.811
really healthy balance of

00:20:39.852 --> 00:20:40.311
support and challenge.

00:20:40.332 --> 00:20:41.633
And then you talk to a

00:20:41.673 --> 00:20:42.374
number of their team

00:20:42.413 --> 00:20:45.115
members who in confidence will say,

00:20:45.276 --> 00:20:46.497
actually, man,

00:20:46.596 --> 00:20:47.518
the prevailing experience

00:20:47.538 --> 00:20:49.660
I'm having is the lower right quadrant,

00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:50.800
high challenge, low support.

00:20:50.840 --> 00:20:51.602
I feel stressed.

00:20:51.662 --> 00:20:52.362
I feel burdened.

00:20:52.721 --> 00:20:54.624
I feel like I'm never quite cutting it.

00:20:55.964 --> 00:20:57.546
I feel they will say the opposite.

00:20:57.605 --> 00:20:57.806
Gosh,

00:20:57.925 --> 00:20:59.488
I feel like my leader never checks in.

00:20:59.508 --> 00:21:00.667
I feel like my leader doesn't care.

00:21:00.728 --> 00:21:01.648
I feel like they just expect

00:21:01.669 --> 00:21:02.730
that I'm going to figure it all out.

00:21:03.170 --> 00:21:04.191
And they feel kind of in

00:21:04.211 --> 00:21:07.252
this complacent environment.

00:21:07.292 --> 00:21:08.594
Here's the thing I just want to say.

00:21:08.634 --> 00:21:16.798
This is a really powerful insight.

00:21:16.818 --> 00:21:17.700
The natural...

00:21:19.473 --> 00:21:21.894
tendency for human beings,

00:21:22.175 --> 00:21:23.236
even in the workplace,

00:21:23.336 --> 00:21:23.977
like where we're getting

00:21:24.017 --> 00:21:24.876
paid and we have

00:21:24.916 --> 00:21:26.018
responsibility and

00:21:26.298 --> 00:21:26.758
hopefully some

00:21:26.798 --> 00:21:27.979
accountability that the

00:21:28.078 --> 00:21:30.400
natural human default

00:21:31.280 --> 00:21:34.682
without intentional support

00:21:34.722 --> 00:21:35.363
and challenge.

00:21:36.734 --> 00:21:38.516
is for people to actually

00:21:38.596 --> 00:21:41.498
devolve back into that

00:21:41.597 --> 00:21:43.459
lower left quadrant where they feel bored,

00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.000
apathetic, disinterested, unmotivated.

00:21:46.622 --> 00:21:48.083
And leaders wonder why are

00:21:48.143 --> 00:21:50.463
people moving all the time to new jobs?

00:21:50.503 --> 00:21:51.684
Why is there so much turnover?

00:21:51.704 --> 00:21:52.526
Why can't we keep it?

00:21:52.546 --> 00:21:53.346
Why aren't they loyal?

00:21:53.385 --> 00:21:53.546
Now,

00:21:53.726 --> 00:21:55.166
I know there's some generational

00:21:55.186 --> 00:21:56.647
dynamics that's another

00:21:56.688 --> 00:21:57.808
point need to be addressed.

00:21:58.409 --> 00:21:59.950
But I oftentimes just say to leaders like,

00:22:00.030 --> 00:22:00.131
hey,

00:22:00.151 --> 00:22:02.912
have you really reflected on the kind

00:22:02.951 --> 00:22:03.752
of environment you've

00:22:03.792 --> 00:22:05.153
created and whether this is

00:22:05.173 --> 00:22:06.255
an environment that is,

00:22:07.234 --> 00:22:09.016
exciting, motivating, inspiring,

00:22:09.096 --> 00:22:11.617
and empowering for the

00:22:11.657 --> 00:22:12.617
people on your team.

00:22:12.637 --> 00:22:13.798
Because if it's not,

00:22:14.318 --> 00:22:16.500
that's a simple fix for us

00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:18.300
as leaders that we can engage with.

00:22:18.361 --> 00:22:19.102
Like you said earlier,

00:22:19.122 --> 00:22:20.662
this intentional investment

00:22:21.123 --> 00:22:23.104
that will go a long way.

00:22:23.624 --> 00:22:24.483
Because I know there's

00:22:24.564 --> 00:22:25.505
generational differences,

00:22:25.545 --> 00:22:26.845
but human beings are human beings.

00:22:27.244 --> 00:22:28.445
We haven't evolved all that

00:22:28.486 --> 00:22:29.405
much over the last hundred

00:22:29.425 --> 00:22:30.207
and fifty years.

00:22:30.666 --> 00:22:30.906
Right.

00:22:31.047 --> 00:22:32.707
And so it's really important

00:22:32.727 --> 00:22:33.867
that we as leaders kind of

00:22:34.107 --> 00:22:35.468
own first and foremost that

00:22:35.528 --> 00:22:37.709
responsibility to ask the hard question,

00:22:38.349 --> 00:22:39.750
what kind of environment

00:22:39.769 --> 00:22:41.351
are we creating here?

00:22:41.391 --> 00:22:41.911
Absolutely.

00:22:41.971 --> 00:22:42.851
And there's so much brain

00:22:42.871 --> 00:22:44.511
dynamics we could get into

00:22:44.592 --> 00:22:45.832
about why that happened.

00:22:46.212 --> 00:22:47.173
But I think the easiest way

00:22:47.192 --> 00:22:49.034
to think about it is the law of entropy.

00:22:49.153 --> 00:22:49.374
Right.

00:22:50.430 --> 00:22:51.830
things left to their own

00:22:51.871 --> 00:22:53.751
devices don't naturally get

00:22:53.811 --> 00:22:55.634
better we don't naturally

00:22:55.673 --> 00:22:57.894
get more fit we don't match

00:22:57.954 --> 00:22:59.296
our house doesn't naturally

00:22:59.336 --> 00:23:02.218
become more clean right we

00:23:02.258 --> 00:23:03.259
know that to be true

00:23:03.298 --> 00:23:03.979
because of our lived

00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:05.760
experience and yet as

00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:07.041
leaders sometimes we think

00:23:07.981 --> 00:23:09.002
leaving our employees to

00:23:09.022 --> 00:23:10.163
their own devices they are

00:23:10.263 --> 00:23:11.345
naturally going to grow and

00:23:11.365 --> 00:23:13.365
develop and it's like it's

00:23:13.465 --> 00:23:14.727
never it's not going to

00:23:14.747 --> 00:23:17.909
happen that's right um so I

00:23:17.929 --> 00:23:18.730
would love to hear

00:23:20.494 --> 00:23:22.340
your real world examples.

00:23:22.602 --> 00:23:23.585
Where have you seen this

00:23:23.644 --> 00:23:26.453
play out recently with actual clients?

00:23:27.607 --> 00:23:28.929
Well, first of all,

00:23:28.949 --> 00:23:30.690
I see this play out in

00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:31.250
virtually every

00:23:31.289 --> 00:23:32.290
conversation I'm having

00:23:32.330 --> 00:23:34.353
with our clients because

00:23:35.012 --> 00:23:35.792
this is one of the greatest

00:23:35.834 --> 00:23:37.294
challenges for leaders, right?

00:23:37.434 --> 00:23:37.974
Is, you know,

00:23:38.015 --> 00:23:39.276
we have this expectation that

00:23:39.296 --> 00:23:40.336
because our team members

00:23:40.356 --> 00:23:42.157
are educated or experienced

00:23:42.238 --> 00:23:45.000
or skilled that they're just, you know,

00:23:45.019 --> 00:23:46.621
and they're getting paid, right?

00:23:46.641 --> 00:23:47.480
I've heard so many leaders,

00:23:47.520 --> 00:23:48.281
but I'm paying them.

00:23:48.301 --> 00:23:48.442
Like,

00:23:48.461 --> 00:23:49.942
why aren't they motivated enough by that?

00:23:49.962 --> 00:23:51.463
And I have to remind people all the time,

00:23:51.503 --> 00:23:54.026
like money is not a good

00:23:54.385 --> 00:23:55.666
long-term motivator

00:23:56.186 --> 00:23:57.228
It's maintenance.

00:23:57.387 --> 00:23:58.169
People need to get paid

00:23:58.469 --> 00:24:02.132
enough to feel like they can be in a job,

00:24:02.511 --> 00:24:03.553
but that's not what's going

00:24:03.573 --> 00:24:04.413
to motivate them.

00:24:04.834 --> 00:24:06.315
It's actually creating an

00:24:06.375 --> 00:24:07.596
environment for them as

00:24:07.615 --> 00:24:09.278
human beings where they feel seen, heard,

00:24:09.298 --> 00:24:09.938
and valued,

00:24:10.739 --> 00:24:11.679
where they feel like they have

00:24:11.699 --> 00:24:12.759
an opportunity to become a

00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:13.941
better version of themselves.

00:24:14.040 --> 00:24:15.162
And that requires we as

00:24:15.182 --> 00:24:17.284
leaders take seriously how

00:24:17.304 --> 00:24:18.944
we're calibrating support and challenge.

00:24:18.964 --> 00:24:19.546
Let me just say this.

00:24:19.885 --> 00:24:21.928
The best leaders calibrates

00:24:22.228 --> 00:24:23.588
challenge and support, right?

00:24:24.505 --> 00:24:27.046
in intentional ways to keep

00:24:27.086 --> 00:24:29.605
their teams engaged, accountable,

00:24:30.286 --> 00:24:30.926
and growing.

00:24:31.106 --> 00:24:32.406
So if we have concerns as

00:24:32.446 --> 00:24:33.426
leaders that any

00:24:33.646 --> 00:24:35.167
individuals or our team as

00:24:35.208 --> 00:24:36.907
a whole are not engaged, accountable,

00:24:36.948 --> 00:24:37.387
and growing,

00:24:37.847 --> 00:24:39.989
it is likely that we are not

00:24:40.028 --> 00:24:40.949
calibrating support and

00:24:40.969 --> 00:24:41.828
challenge effectively.

00:24:42.249 --> 00:24:44.210
And again, it's a simple fix.

00:24:44.250 --> 00:24:45.690
It's not rocket science,

00:24:45.730 --> 00:24:47.691
but it does take a level of

00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:48.290
intentionality.

00:24:48.391 --> 00:24:49.631
Now I'll give you one

00:24:49.691 --> 00:24:51.751
example of a recent

00:24:51.771 --> 00:24:53.071
conversation with a leader

00:24:54.201 --> 00:24:55.241
And I'm going to share this

00:24:55.281 --> 00:24:57.083
example because this leader

00:24:57.124 --> 00:24:58.525
found themselves actually

00:25:00.385 --> 00:25:01.826
doing the same thing on

00:25:01.907 --> 00:25:02.948
opposite sides with two

00:25:02.988 --> 00:25:03.929
different team members.

00:25:04.289 --> 00:25:08.353
So this leader runs a, I would say,

00:25:08.553 --> 00:25:14.077
a relatively successful tech company.

00:25:15.038 --> 00:25:17.339
And they had two different team members.

00:25:18.510 --> 00:25:20.152
one who had been

00:25:20.352 --> 00:25:21.512
underperforming for a

00:25:22.712 --> 00:25:24.874
probably a two or three

00:25:24.913 --> 00:25:27.776
years but that team member

00:25:27.796 --> 00:25:28.556
had been with the

00:25:28.576 --> 00:25:29.817
organization since its

00:25:29.896 --> 00:25:32.798
inception the leader felt a

00:25:32.838 --> 00:25:34.499
kind of responsibility and

00:25:34.558 --> 00:25:36.039
loyalty in a sense like man

00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:36.579
you've been with us from

00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.781
the beginning so I you know

00:25:39.021 --> 00:25:40.823
I I don't want to just get

00:25:40.883 --> 00:25:43.104
rid of you I want to honor your

00:25:45.113 --> 00:25:46.555
the time you've been with us.

00:25:47.375 --> 00:25:48.757
And yet, as I was talking to you, I said,

00:25:48.797 --> 00:25:49.076
hey,

00:25:49.297 --> 00:25:50.577
but have you brought to this

00:25:50.637 --> 00:25:52.400
individual's attention the

00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:53.601
areas where you feel like

00:25:53.621 --> 00:25:55.603
they're not performing up to par?

00:25:55.982 --> 00:25:58.484
Have you brought the necessary challenge,

00:25:58.846 --> 00:25:59.766
not because you're wanting

00:25:59.807 --> 00:26:02.788
to be mean or harsh or beat them down,

00:26:02.808 --> 00:26:03.829
but because you're willing

00:26:03.869 --> 00:26:05.131
as a leader to call the

00:26:05.191 --> 00:26:06.692
best out of that individual.

00:26:07.012 --> 00:26:07.673
And the only way to

00:26:08.685 --> 00:26:09.807
Do that is the challenge.

00:26:09.826 --> 00:26:10.307
I'm going to say, hey,

00:26:10.326 --> 00:26:10.826
I want to bring to your

00:26:10.847 --> 00:26:12.929
attention that these are expectations.

00:26:12.949 --> 00:26:13.729
You're not meeting them.

00:26:13.749 --> 00:26:15.411
So what do we do together?

00:26:15.891 --> 00:26:18.353
How can I now support you as

00:26:18.413 --> 00:26:19.472
you try to move the needle

00:26:19.492 --> 00:26:20.634
in this particular area?

00:26:20.673 --> 00:26:21.775
The leader kept saying, gosh,

00:26:21.835 --> 00:26:22.515
I don't want to do that.

00:26:22.555 --> 00:26:22.715
Well,

00:26:22.736 --> 00:26:24.997
what the leader discovered was that

00:26:25.017 --> 00:26:25.778
they have a really hard

00:26:25.817 --> 00:26:27.078
time calibrating challenge.

00:26:28.199 --> 00:26:30.421
In part because they are

00:26:30.461 --> 00:26:31.541
afraid for their team not

00:26:31.602 --> 00:26:33.163
to like them as a leader.

00:26:33.564 --> 00:26:34.805
Part of it is because

00:26:34.884 --> 00:26:36.246
they're all similar ages.

00:26:36.306 --> 00:26:37.227
And so there was a concern

00:26:37.247 --> 00:26:38.367
around not wanting their

00:26:38.407 --> 00:26:40.388
team to feel like they

00:26:40.429 --> 00:26:41.569
think they're high and mighty.

00:26:42.711 --> 00:26:44.673
And I had to really help them understand,

00:26:45.993 --> 00:26:47.674
hey, caring about your team

00:26:48.596 --> 00:26:50.576
requires both support and challenge.

00:26:50.616 --> 00:26:52.538
Caring for others in our

00:26:52.577 --> 00:26:54.799
lives is not one or the other.

00:26:54.819 --> 00:26:55.579
That's not caring.

00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:58.701
Actual caring or loving or

00:26:58.781 --> 00:27:00.222
partnering well with the

00:27:00.262 --> 00:27:00.943
people in our lives

00:27:00.983 --> 00:27:03.005
requires both support and challenge.

00:27:03.045 --> 00:27:04.486
It's not loving to me if my

00:27:04.546 --> 00:27:07.166
wife never calls me up to a

00:27:07.227 --> 00:27:09.008
better standard of how I'm operating.

00:27:09.288 --> 00:27:10.950
It's not loving to you as a

00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:12.150
member of my team if I

00:27:12.210 --> 00:27:13.451
don't ever challenge you

00:27:13.911 --> 00:27:15.271
and push you to be a better version.

00:27:16.772 --> 00:27:18.074
but while I'm providing

00:27:18.474 --> 00:27:19.776
support for the journey.

00:27:20.096 --> 00:27:21.037
Now, interestingly enough,

00:27:21.156 --> 00:27:21.916
on the flip side,

00:27:22.478 --> 00:27:23.538
the same leader had another

00:27:23.578 --> 00:27:28.843
team member for whom they

00:27:28.883 --> 00:27:30.183
were just constantly

00:27:31.641 --> 00:27:32.362
harsh with them,

00:27:32.622 --> 00:27:35.343
constantly criticizing them.

00:27:35.363 --> 00:27:37.164
And in a lot of their team meetings,

00:27:37.765 --> 00:27:40.846
this leader was not just critiquing,

00:27:41.287 --> 00:27:44.630
but a lot of challenge in terms of, hey,

00:27:44.650 --> 00:27:45.569
I don't think you're doing this well.

00:27:45.589 --> 00:27:46.451
I don't think you're doing this right.

00:27:46.471 --> 00:27:47.371
I think you need to get better.

00:27:47.811 --> 00:27:49.152
And I said, help me understand.

00:27:49.413 --> 00:27:50.753
You're terrified to

00:27:50.794 --> 00:27:52.375
challenge this other individual,

00:27:52.555 --> 00:27:54.455
and that's not helping them.

00:27:54.776 --> 00:27:55.497
But over here,

00:27:55.656 --> 00:27:57.018
you're more than ready to

00:27:57.077 --> 00:27:58.919
bring so much challenge

00:27:58.939 --> 00:27:59.960
that this person looks

00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:02.539
visibly discouraged, beat up,

00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:03.661
like they're on the

00:28:03.681 --> 00:28:04.780
treadmill of performance.

00:28:05.641 --> 00:28:06.840
And it's so interesting

00:28:06.861 --> 00:28:07.981
because I remind people,

00:28:08.021 --> 00:28:08.981
I think we all have as

00:28:09.082 --> 00:28:10.142
leaders a natural

00:28:10.221 --> 00:28:12.603
proclivity to favor one of

00:28:12.643 --> 00:28:14.482
these energies over the others.

00:28:15.103 --> 00:28:17.183
And yet, contextually speaking,

00:28:17.324 --> 00:28:19.423
different dynamics, relationships,

00:28:19.805 --> 00:28:20.005
you know,

00:28:20.025 --> 00:28:21.505
whether it's at home versus work

00:28:21.565 --> 00:28:24.026
or with an employee versus a client,

00:28:25.006 --> 00:28:26.266
we tend to kind of pick and

00:28:26.286 --> 00:28:28.507
choose what we think favors

00:28:28.727 --> 00:28:29.787
us in that moment.

00:28:30.487 --> 00:28:32.366
And so when they came to realize,

00:28:32.386 --> 00:28:33.528
this leader we were working with,

00:28:34.067 --> 00:28:35.907
that with one team member,

00:28:36.107 --> 00:28:37.749
it was all support, no challenge.

00:28:37.769 --> 00:28:38.828
The other team members all challenged,

00:28:38.868 --> 00:28:39.548
no support.

00:28:39.969 --> 00:28:41.588
The reality is both of those

00:28:41.628 --> 00:28:44.029
team members were underperforming.

00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:46.931
And I had to help this leader recognize,

00:28:46.990 --> 00:28:48.711
hey, at some point,

00:28:48.810 --> 00:28:49.611
are you willing to take

00:28:49.651 --> 00:28:50.810
responsibility for the fact

00:28:50.830 --> 00:28:53.412
that you may not be engaging them well?

00:28:54.181 --> 00:28:55.221
Maybe you're not creating an

00:28:55.260 --> 00:28:57.122
environment for those two

00:28:57.142 --> 00:28:58.702
team members that is gonna

00:28:58.742 --> 00:28:59.603
call out the best of them

00:28:59.623 --> 00:29:00.623
and help them grow.

00:29:01.324 --> 00:29:02.284
And here's what's amazing.

00:29:02.683 --> 00:29:03.825
In both instances,

00:29:03.964 --> 00:29:05.845
it took probably about two months.

00:29:07.165 --> 00:29:08.925
This leader began to really

00:29:09.006 --> 00:29:09.846
work at being more

00:29:09.866 --> 00:29:10.727
intentional about

00:29:10.787 --> 00:29:12.107
calibrating the gas and

00:29:12.147 --> 00:29:12.827
brake pedal more

00:29:12.867 --> 00:29:14.448
effectively with each team member.

00:29:15.048 --> 00:29:15.949
And guess what happened?

00:29:16.755 --> 00:29:18.455
Well, first of all, for our listeners, no,

00:29:18.536 --> 00:29:20.057
it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows.

00:29:20.096 --> 00:29:20.957
And that's a beautiful

00:29:21.017 --> 00:29:21.738
ending to the story.

00:29:22.778 --> 00:29:23.919
They discovered that one of

00:29:23.959 --> 00:29:25.680
those team members actually, in fact,

00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:26.680
wasn't a good fit any

00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:27.621
longer for the organization.

00:29:27.980 --> 00:29:29.281
And for the other team member,

00:29:29.701 --> 00:29:31.702
once he added a little bit of support,

00:29:32.503 --> 00:29:33.443
that team member began to

00:29:33.483 --> 00:29:34.904
flourish and blossom like a

00:29:35.045 --> 00:29:36.586
flower in sunshine.

00:29:36.625 --> 00:29:37.905
It was really amazing.

00:29:38.006 --> 00:29:40.768
That I love that.

00:29:41.727 --> 00:29:42.747
I love that example because

00:29:42.767 --> 00:29:44.007
we can see from two sides

00:29:44.126 --> 00:29:46.688
how one leader was missing

00:29:46.708 --> 00:29:48.248
the mark with two different team members.

00:29:48.367 --> 00:29:51.048
And we absolutely have some

00:29:52.108 --> 00:29:53.469
concrete tips that we want

00:29:53.489 --> 00:29:54.348
to leave our listeners with.

00:29:54.409 --> 00:29:55.509
But before we get there,

00:29:55.689 --> 00:29:57.369
I just want to add in this

00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:58.950
piece because I want to

00:29:58.990 --> 00:30:02.510
make sure our listeners don't miss it.

00:30:02.570 --> 00:30:06.290
Challenge is not mean for some of us.

00:30:06.431 --> 00:30:07.490
We have that feeling that if

00:30:07.510 --> 00:30:09.291
we're challenging people, it's mean.

00:30:10.871 --> 00:30:11.771
I loved how you were saying

00:30:11.791 --> 00:30:12.751
like it's not the loving

00:30:12.771 --> 00:30:15.173
thing to do my son recently

00:30:15.634 --> 00:30:17.736
was not turning in his

00:30:17.776 --> 00:30:19.136
homework in several classes

00:30:19.217 --> 00:30:20.176
and I had to bring that

00:30:20.237 --> 00:30:21.657
challenge to him it's not

00:30:21.857 --> 00:30:24.200
loving for it it's not

00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.181
loving for me to just let

00:30:25.201 --> 00:30:26.821
him fail that's not the

00:30:26.922 --> 00:30:29.324
loving thing to do um so

00:30:29.364 --> 00:30:30.784
sometimes challenge is

00:30:30.865 --> 00:30:31.984
actually the loving thing

00:30:32.506 --> 00:30:34.126
and on the flip side I you

00:30:35.327 --> 00:30:36.347
you touched on this and I

00:30:36.367 --> 00:30:37.308
just want to drive it home

00:30:38.723 --> 00:30:41.445
um support is not the salary

00:30:43.426 --> 00:30:44.867
paying your employees is

00:30:44.928 --> 00:30:46.288
not support that's not

00:30:46.328 --> 00:30:49.391
support um also like giving

00:30:49.411 --> 00:30:50.271
them a little pat on the

00:30:50.311 --> 00:30:51.393
head that's not support

00:30:51.472 --> 00:30:52.512
sometimes support looks

00:30:52.532 --> 00:30:54.494
like making sure they have

00:30:54.634 --> 00:30:56.115
the tools they need to

00:30:56.155 --> 00:30:57.316
accomplish the tasks that

00:30:57.336 --> 00:30:59.397
you've given them do they

00:30:59.438 --> 00:31:00.519
need a training do they

00:31:00.578 --> 00:31:01.679
need like you said earlier

00:31:01.719 --> 00:31:03.980
do they need technology there can be

00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:06.182
support isn't just this

00:31:06.261 --> 00:31:07.542
fluffy nebulous thing.

00:31:07.563 --> 00:31:09.746
Support can be actual

00:31:09.865 --> 00:31:11.307
tangible things that a

00:31:11.367 --> 00:31:12.548
person needs to accomplish

00:31:12.568 --> 00:31:13.611
the task that you're giving them.

00:31:14.082 --> 00:31:15.962
Yeah, checking in, listening well,

00:31:16.803 --> 00:31:17.344
not giving them an

00:31:17.384 --> 00:31:19.044
opportunity to vent if

00:31:19.064 --> 00:31:20.625
they're frustrated with something.

00:31:21.164 --> 00:31:21.766
Yeah,

00:31:21.826 --> 00:31:22.986
I love what you're saying because I

00:31:23.026 --> 00:31:23.926
think for all of us,

00:31:23.967 --> 00:31:25.607
we want to check ourselves.

00:31:26.688 --> 00:31:28.028
Do we see challenge as

00:31:28.048 --> 00:31:29.068
something that's negative?

00:31:29.229 --> 00:31:30.250
And if so,

00:31:30.569 --> 00:31:32.990
we need to reframe challenge as

00:31:33.191 --> 00:31:34.432
actually a very important

00:31:34.471 --> 00:31:36.333
part of how we care for

00:31:36.393 --> 00:31:38.273
other people and how we lead them.

00:31:38.314 --> 00:31:38.693
Yeah.

00:31:39.753 --> 00:31:41.115
Because without challenge, we don't grow.

00:31:41.255 --> 00:31:43.634
And other people who see support as,

00:31:44.076 --> 00:31:45.115
like you said, you know,

00:31:45.155 --> 00:31:47.236
kind of the whole navel-gazing,

00:31:47.276 --> 00:31:49.156
thumb-sucking, mamby-pamby, whatever,

00:31:49.176 --> 00:31:49.896
you know, people say that.

00:31:50.416 --> 00:31:51.538
Like, it's just soft.

00:31:51.657 --> 00:31:52.478
And it's like, no.

00:31:52.698 --> 00:31:53.817
Actually, we as human beings,

00:31:53.877 --> 00:31:55.118
we need an appropriate

00:31:55.159 --> 00:31:57.058
amount of support and

00:31:57.118 --> 00:31:58.339
partnership to help us

00:31:58.480 --> 00:31:59.880
navigate the challenges

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.441
that are ahead of us.

00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:02.641
Yeah.

00:32:04.050 --> 00:32:04.290
Okay.

00:32:04.550 --> 00:32:06.551
So we always want to take

00:32:06.592 --> 00:32:08.132
these concepts to very

00:32:08.172 --> 00:32:09.153
practical application

00:32:09.212 --> 00:32:11.272
because we believe that if

00:32:12.473 --> 00:32:13.394
a piece of advice doesn't

00:32:13.453 --> 00:32:15.974
actually move the needle for a client,

00:32:16.015 --> 00:32:18.016
then it's not doing anything.

00:32:18.516 --> 00:32:19.895
So I would love if you can

00:32:19.996 --> 00:32:23.698
give our listeners a couple of actionable,

00:32:24.597 --> 00:32:25.637
simple steps that they can

00:32:25.678 --> 00:32:27.199
do that are going to help

00:32:27.219 --> 00:32:29.460
them navigate this support

00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:30.440
and challenge matrix.

00:32:31.077 --> 00:32:32.818
Yeah, I love that.

00:32:32.979 --> 00:32:35.099
I'm going to actually offer

00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:36.160
some practical things and

00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:37.260
then kind of offer

00:32:37.520 --> 00:32:38.602
illustrations from my own

00:32:38.622 --> 00:32:39.342
life because it's really

00:32:39.362 --> 00:32:40.122
important for our listeners

00:32:40.142 --> 00:32:41.843
to know that this is the

00:32:41.883 --> 00:32:43.023
stuff that we practice, right?

00:32:43.044 --> 00:32:44.403
These are the mental models

00:32:44.443 --> 00:32:47.405
that we ourselves operate

00:32:47.445 --> 00:32:48.806
with every single day

00:32:48.866 --> 00:32:49.946
because we know that the

00:32:49.987 --> 00:32:51.488
more we align our life,

00:32:52.188 --> 00:32:53.448
with these mental models,

00:32:53.828 --> 00:32:54.729
the better our lives are

00:32:54.749 --> 00:32:55.449
going to be and the

00:32:55.509 --> 00:32:56.568
stronger leaders we're going to be.

00:32:58.130 --> 00:32:58.690
First of all,

00:32:58.849 --> 00:32:59.769
it's helpful just to step

00:32:59.789 --> 00:33:01.090
back and remember that this

00:33:01.211 --> 00:33:03.070
matrix creates a kind of

00:33:03.151 --> 00:33:05.592
map where we can take any

00:33:05.731 --> 00:33:06.451
area of our life,

00:33:06.491 --> 00:33:07.332
whether it's our physical

00:33:07.373 --> 00:33:08.752
health or fitness, whether it's our

00:33:09.633 --> 00:33:10.114
marriage,

00:33:10.193 --> 00:33:11.795
or you can even get really specific.

00:33:11.835 --> 00:33:13.355
How about communication in our marriage?

00:33:13.375 --> 00:33:14.497
How about sex life?

00:33:14.517 --> 00:33:15.698
How about parenting?

00:33:16.038 --> 00:33:17.519
How about our finances?

00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:19.441
You can take any area of our life,

00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:20.402
macro or micro,

00:33:20.942 --> 00:33:21.923
and we can just simply

00:33:21.942 --> 00:33:24.384
begin to plot those areas on the map.

00:33:24.825 --> 00:33:25.806
What is the prevailing

00:33:25.846 --> 00:33:27.146
experience for me in this

00:33:27.267 --> 00:33:27.906
area of my life?

00:33:27.968 --> 00:33:29.288
Is it in the empowered quadrant?

00:33:30.048 --> 00:33:32.089
Or is it in the cozy or

00:33:32.130 --> 00:33:33.030
complacent quadrant?

00:33:33.090 --> 00:33:34.551
Is it in the discouraged and

00:33:35.051 --> 00:33:35.893
stressed quadrant?

00:33:35.972 --> 00:33:37.153
Or is it in the apathetic or

00:33:37.192 --> 00:33:37.854
bored quadrant?

00:33:37.894 --> 00:33:41.215
And once I begin to plot any

00:33:41.336 --> 00:33:43.076
area of my life on the map,

00:33:43.136 --> 00:33:44.458
that's the starting point.

00:33:44.478 --> 00:33:45.397
That's what we're talking about,

00:33:45.458 --> 00:33:45.999
the importance of

00:33:46.058 --> 00:33:46.999
self-awareness and

00:33:47.058 --> 00:33:48.680
self-leadership is being

00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:50.201
willing to recognize where

00:33:50.260 --> 00:33:51.402
we are experiencing these

00:33:51.461 --> 00:33:51.862
areas of our life.

00:33:51.902 --> 00:33:54.144
Then we can ask the simple question,

00:33:55.429 --> 00:33:57.871
If I wanted to move this

00:33:58.092 --> 00:34:00.133
area either deeper up into

00:34:00.313 --> 00:34:01.875
the empowered quadrant or

00:34:02.255 --> 00:34:03.836
from one of the other three

00:34:04.116 --> 00:34:05.778
less ideal quadrants into

00:34:05.817 --> 00:34:06.538
the empowered quadrant,

00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:08.920
what energy needs to shift?

00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:10.802
In other words, what do I need to add?

00:34:10.961 --> 00:34:12.364
Do I need more support or do

00:34:12.463 --> 00:34:14.105
I need more challenge?

00:34:14.125 --> 00:34:14.885
So let me give us a couple

00:34:14.905 --> 00:34:15.445
of illustrations.

00:34:15.485 --> 00:34:15.865
Number one.

00:34:16.967 --> 00:34:18.027
as most people every year,

00:34:18.068 --> 00:34:19.349
at least two to three times a year,

00:34:19.409 --> 00:34:20.510
I have this kind of moment of like,

00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:21.130
oh my gosh,

00:34:21.570 --> 00:34:22.311
I'm not paying as much

00:34:22.331 --> 00:34:23.271
attention as I should to my

00:34:23.311 --> 00:34:24.612
fitness and health.

00:34:24.771 --> 00:34:26.353
And so I'm in the complacent

00:34:26.373 --> 00:34:29.375
quadrant or the opposite.

00:34:29.614 --> 00:34:30.835
I incur an injury while

00:34:30.896 --> 00:34:32.277
doing something that I

00:34:32.297 --> 00:34:32.958
don't think I should have

00:34:32.978 --> 00:34:33.418
been injured for.

00:34:33.458 --> 00:34:34.378
Now I'm discouraged and

00:34:34.418 --> 00:34:35.159
stressed because I'm like,

00:34:35.278 --> 00:34:37.079
I'm physically unable to do

00:34:37.099 --> 00:34:37.661
what I want to do.

00:34:38.161 --> 00:34:42.023
Either way, what'd you say?

00:34:42.103 --> 00:34:42.704
I'm old.

00:34:43.103 --> 00:34:43.503
I'm old.

00:34:43.603 --> 00:34:44.105
Either way,

00:34:45.666 --> 00:34:46.827
it gives me an opportunity to say, okay,

00:34:47.086 --> 00:34:48.387
do I need more support?

00:34:48.507 --> 00:34:50.809
Do I need medical care?

00:34:50.889 --> 00:34:52.570
Do I need to go to a chiropractor?

00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:55.391
Those are ways we get support, right?

00:34:55.411 --> 00:34:56.992
Do I need to research and

00:34:57.032 --> 00:34:59.333
look up some ways of eating

00:34:59.554 --> 00:35:00.755
and taking care of my body

00:35:00.795 --> 00:35:02.115
or sleep rhythms that would

00:35:02.135 --> 00:35:02.876
be more effective?

00:35:02.896 --> 00:35:03.717
These are all forms of

00:35:03.757 --> 00:35:04.858
support that I'm looking for.

00:35:05.918 --> 00:35:07.099
or if I'm in the complacency quadrant,

00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:07.960
I need more challenge.

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:08.780
I might need to hire a

00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.021
personal trainer for a season.

00:35:10.081 --> 00:35:11.521
I might need to re up at my gym.

00:35:11.601 --> 00:35:13.563
I might need to tell my wife, Hey, I'm,

00:35:13.884 --> 00:35:14.784
I want to be accountable.

00:35:14.844 --> 00:35:15.605
I'm committed to going to

00:35:15.625 --> 00:35:16.545
the gym three days a week

00:35:16.585 --> 00:35:17.786
and working out in a particular way.

00:35:18.206 --> 00:35:18.588
So again,

00:35:18.628 --> 00:35:19.788
we can see no matter what

00:35:19.847 --> 00:35:20.969
quadrant we're in,

00:35:21.028 --> 00:35:21.809
we just need to then ask

00:35:21.849 --> 00:35:23.451
the question to get from

00:35:23.471 --> 00:35:24.911
where I am at currently up

00:35:24.931 --> 00:35:26.032
into the upper right quadrant,

00:35:26.092 --> 00:35:28.175
which energy or energies

00:35:29.034 --> 00:35:30.496
need to be calibrated

00:35:30.536 --> 00:35:32.898
differently so that I can be

00:35:33.177 --> 00:35:34.579
move the needle in that

00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:36.141
particular area of my life.

00:35:36.621 --> 00:35:38.302
The same goes for as we're

00:35:38.342 --> 00:35:39.384
leading those people on our

00:35:39.423 --> 00:35:40.885
teams or even from a

00:35:40.945 --> 00:35:42.027
parenting perspective,

00:35:42.847 --> 00:35:43.869
identifying where are

00:35:43.909 --> 00:35:44.989
people experiencing a

00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:46.030
particular area of their

00:35:46.451 --> 00:35:48.172
life or workplace life.

00:35:48.952 --> 00:35:50.112
And are they in whatever

00:35:50.152 --> 00:35:50.813
quadrant they're in?

00:35:50.873 --> 00:35:51.673
And then as a leader,

00:35:52.114 --> 00:35:53.994
what can I do to provide

00:35:54.034 --> 00:35:55.634
the necessary support or

00:35:55.653 --> 00:35:57.855
challenge to help them have

00:35:57.875 --> 00:36:00.014
a chance to move into that

00:36:00.094 --> 00:36:01.215
upper right quadrant or

00:36:01.335 --> 00:36:03.056
into an empowered experience?

00:36:03.416 --> 00:36:05.235
So a couple of other illustrations.

00:36:06.056 --> 00:36:10.536
When years ago, our previous dog, Winston,

00:36:10.956 --> 00:36:11.777
God rest his soul,

00:36:13.637 --> 00:36:15.199
You know, he passed earlier this year,

00:36:15.219 --> 00:36:16.699
just an amazing family pet.

00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:17.920
But when we first got him,

00:36:18.061 --> 00:36:18.922
I did not want a dog.

00:36:18.942 --> 00:36:19.682
I did not want a pet.

00:36:20.322 --> 00:36:23.045
And I was all challenged with that dog.

00:36:23.286 --> 00:36:23.485
I mean,

00:36:23.545 --> 00:36:24.887
if he made a mistake as a puppy and

00:36:24.907 --> 00:36:25.626
pee on the floor, man,

00:36:25.668 --> 00:36:28.128
I'd smack his butt and throw him outside.

00:36:28.148 --> 00:36:30.771
And if he wanted to sit on my lap,

00:36:30.871 --> 00:36:31.711
I wouldn't have it.

00:36:31.771 --> 00:36:33.614
And I didn't give him any love, right?

00:36:33.634 --> 00:36:34.675
It's all challenged,

00:36:34.775 --> 00:36:36.315
no support to the point

00:36:36.335 --> 00:36:37.777
where one day I walk into

00:36:37.817 --> 00:36:38.657
the kitchen and when I get

00:36:38.697 --> 00:36:41.079
home from work and the dog just literally,

00:36:41.139 --> 00:36:41.940
as I get closer to the dog,

00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:42.820
the dog just pees on the ground.

00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:44.302
And I'm like, what the heck is going on?

00:36:44.342 --> 00:36:44.862
Isn't this dog?

00:36:44.902 --> 00:36:46.963
My wife's like, my wife pulls me aside,

00:36:47.503 --> 00:36:47.643
right?

00:36:47.684 --> 00:36:49.065
The voice of wisdom and reason in my life.

00:36:49.085 --> 00:36:51.166
And she says, hey, babe,

00:36:51.186 --> 00:36:52.668
you need to take a cue from

00:36:52.708 --> 00:36:54.809
your own leadership toolkit

00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:57.000
You are all challenged and

00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.121
no support with this dog.

00:36:58.161 --> 00:37:00.101
This dog is stressed and

00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:02.342
overwhelmed and terrified of you.

00:37:02.382 --> 00:37:04.322
And I was like, well, that's not my fault.

00:37:04.563 --> 00:37:06.103
You know, dog's bad man's best friend.

00:37:06.163 --> 00:37:06.322
Yeah.

00:37:06.382 --> 00:37:06.563
Right.

00:37:06.583 --> 00:37:09.403
Well, once I got over myself,

00:37:09.744 --> 00:37:10.804
I realized you're right.

00:37:11.065 --> 00:37:12.545
I'm creating an environment

00:37:12.565 --> 00:37:14.425
that is stressing this dog out to no end.

00:37:14.945 --> 00:37:16.585
And so it took weeks and

00:37:16.606 --> 00:37:18.086
maybe even a couple of months,

00:37:18.126 --> 00:37:19.347
but as I was more

00:37:19.387 --> 00:37:22.088
intentional to invest support and,

00:37:22.248 --> 00:37:24.650
into my experience with this dog.

00:37:25.231 --> 00:37:25.871
Little by little,

00:37:25.911 --> 00:37:27.452
the dog began to trust me.

00:37:27.512 --> 00:37:28.233
Little by little,

00:37:28.552 --> 00:37:30.155
we developed a kind of

00:37:30.195 --> 00:37:31.436
trusting relationship.

00:37:31.835 --> 00:37:33.137
And we ended up having an

00:37:33.177 --> 00:37:35.579
incredible dynamic with this house pet.

00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:36.900
And people go, ah, it's just a dog.

00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:38.902
But it just goes to prove the point.

00:37:39.041 --> 00:37:40.103
Our engagement with any

00:37:40.242 --> 00:37:41.824
other living entity really

00:37:41.905 --> 00:37:43.885
is always a calibration of

00:37:43.925 --> 00:37:44.507
support and challenge.

00:37:44.527 --> 00:37:45.248
Another great example.

00:37:46.088 --> 00:37:47.489
My wife and I, a couple of years ago, man,

00:37:47.530 --> 00:37:48.510
we had a rough patch,

00:37:48.610 --> 00:37:50.032
like welcome to marriage, right?

00:37:50.052 --> 00:37:51.715
We've been through rough patches,

00:37:52.155 --> 00:37:53.496
really big rough patches in our marriage,

00:37:53.516 --> 00:37:54.838
but that's how we evolve.

00:37:54.878 --> 00:37:55.099
Right.

00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:56.681
And so we found ourselves

00:37:56.721 --> 00:37:58.382
when we were reflecting together,

00:37:58.802 --> 00:37:59.844
we both felt like our

00:37:59.903 --> 00:38:02.266
marriage on the whole is in

00:38:02.306 --> 00:38:04.449
that lower right, stressed, overwhelmed,

00:38:04.489 --> 00:38:05.351
burned out quadrant.

00:38:06.414 --> 00:38:09.996
And so, you know, we decided, uh,

00:38:10.016 --> 00:38:12.077
thankfully to seek out some

00:38:12.097 --> 00:38:12.737
marriage counseling.

00:38:12.757 --> 00:38:13.538
We found an incredible

00:38:13.577 --> 00:38:15.159
marriage counselor because

00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:16.059
we needed support.

00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:17.519
We needed somebody to

00:38:17.579 --> 00:38:18.780
support us on our journey

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:19.760
of learning to communicate

00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:21.842
more effectively and to resolve, you know,

00:38:21.882 --> 00:38:23.322
kind of these long time

00:38:23.422 --> 00:38:24.503
unresolved tensions.

00:38:24.523 --> 00:38:26.083
I remember my, my, our counselor saying,

00:38:26.463 --> 00:38:26.684
man,

00:38:26.764 --> 00:38:29.865
your guy's marriage is like a minefield.

00:38:29.905 --> 00:38:30.405
Like you have all these

00:38:30.465 --> 00:38:31.806
landmines that things that

00:38:31.827 --> 00:38:32.987
you can't even talk about

00:38:33.027 --> 00:38:34.248
without things blowing up.

00:38:34.268 --> 00:38:34.849
And yeah,

00:38:35.748 --> 00:38:36.789
I want to support you and

00:38:36.829 --> 00:38:39.112
partner you and equip you, right?

00:38:39.211 --> 00:38:39.972
All expressions.

00:38:40.032 --> 00:38:40.672
Then, of course,

00:38:40.893 --> 00:38:41.813
he brought some challenge

00:38:41.853 --> 00:38:44.096
to challenge some of our

00:38:44.135 --> 00:38:45.996
preconceived ideas and our

00:38:46.016 --> 00:38:47.358
kind of negative views of each other,

00:38:47.978 --> 00:38:49.340
but really supported us to

00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:51.141
develop the skills to be

00:38:51.201 --> 00:38:52.802
able to communicate more effectively,

00:38:52.842 --> 00:38:54.304
which led to some radical

00:38:54.324 --> 00:38:55.083
breakthroughs in our

00:38:55.123 --> 00:38:56.244
relationship and really

00:38:56.284 --> 00:38:57.226
kind of launched us into a

00:38:57.286 --> 00:39:01.750
whole new season of joy in our marriage.

00:39:03.130 --> 00:39:04.351
So again, these are just examples.

00:39:04.411 --> 00:39:05.512
So real quick,

00:39:05.992 --> 00:39:07.472
let me just encourage our

00:39:07.512 --> 00:39:08.293
listener right now.

00:39:09.094 --> 00:39:12.835
Things you can do right here, right today.

00:39:12.896 --> 00:39:14.856
Number one, ask yourself this question.

00:39:14.918 --> 00:39:16.518
Do I naturally lean toward

00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:17.699
support or challenge?

00:39:17.838 --> 00:39:19.780
Which one do I calibrate more comfortably?

00:39:21.081 --> 00:39:23.483
And if you want to grow in

00:39:23.523 --> 00:39:24.922
the one you're uncomfortable with,

00:39:25.483 --> 00:39:26.664
find somebody in your life

00:39:26.684 --> 00:39:27.704
who is actually good at

00:39:27.744 --> 00:39:30.726
calibrating that energy and watch them.

00:39:31.539 --> 00:39:33.400
Pay attention to their tone of voice,

00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:34.181
their body language.

00:39:34.222 --> 00:39:35.202
How do they communicate

00:39:35.242 --> 00:39:36.083
support or challenge?

00:39:36.483 --> 00:39:37.722
I'm naturally challenging.

00:39:38.143 --> 00:39:39.244
So I had to spend years

00:39:39.284 --> 00:39:40.184
watching people that were

00:39:40.224 --> 00:39:41.385
much better at calibrating

00:39:41.425 --> 00:39:42.826
support and really picking

00:39:42.865 --> 00:39:45.288
up on all the ways that they would do it,

00:39:45.568 --> 00:39:46.788
which was very natural for them,

00:39:46.827 --> 00:39:47.708
but unnatural for me.

00:39:48.009 --> 00:39:48.869
And guess what?

00:39:48.929 --> 00:39:49.449
Nowadays,

00:39:49.650 --> 00:39:51.351
I am far better at calibrating

00:39:51.431 --> 00:39:52.771
both in a way that's

00:39:52.811 --> 00:39:54.351
helpful to the people around me.

00:39:54.753 --> 00:39:55.432
The second thing I'd

00:39:55.492 --> 00:39:57.273
recommend to our listeners

00:39:58.635 --> 00:40:00.436
is to simply reflect for themselves.

00:40:01.255 --> 00:40:03.157
What is their workplace experience like?

00:40:03.197 --> 00:40:03.956
How would they do?

00:40:03.996 --> 00:40:05.177
Which quadrant would best

00:40:05.677 --> 00:40:07.918
describe their current experience?

00:40:07.958 --> 00:40:08.097
Right.

00:40:08.157 --> 00:40:08.978
Even if you're the owner

00:40:09.099 --> 00:40:11.179
operator or CEO of an organization,

00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:12.019
you're the top of the pile.

00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:12.840
Like you can still reflect

00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:14.380
on what is my experience?

00:40:14.579 --> 00:40:15.701
Which quadrant do I feel

00:40:15.740 --> 00:40:17.481
like I'm primarily in in my

00:40:17.521 --> 00:40:19.181
workplace and what might

00:40:19.242 --> 00:40:20.943
need to change if I'm not

00:40:21.043 --> 00:40:22.402
already in the empowered world?

00:40:22.583 --> 00:40:24.483
culture we can also third

00:40:24.503 --> 00:40:25.983
thing I'd recommend is to

00:40:26.003 --> 00:40:27.125
just take a few minutes sit

00:40:27.164 --> 00:40:28.505
down maybe even journal we

00:40:28.545 --> 00:40:29.105
talked a lot about

00:40:29.125 --> 00:40:30.525
journaling and just write

00:40:30.565 --> 00:40:32.746
the team members names of

00:40:32.786 --> 00:40:33.706
the people that directly

00:40:33.746 --> 00:40:35.166
report to you and ask the

00:40:35.186 --> 00:40:37.427
simple question if if I had

00:40:37.467 --> 00:40:39.028
to which quadrant do I

00:40:39.088 --> 00:40:41.148
think would best describe

00:40:41.168 --> 00:40:41.869
what I think their

00:40:41.929 --> 00:40:44.230
experience might be and

00:40:44.289 --> 00:40:45.731
what kind of what needs to

00:40:45.771 --> 00:40:46.490
change in the

00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:47.311
intentionality of my

00:40:47.351 --> 00:40:49.431
leadership um to help that

00:40:49.472 --> 00:40:51.193
person maybe move into the

00:40:51.233 --> 00:40:51.893
empowered quadrant

00:40:52.172 --> 00:40:52.632
And of course,

00:40:52.672 --> 00:40:54.413
if they want to be we want to be really,

00:40:54.492 --> 00:40:56.414
really, really daring as leaders,

00:40:56.454 --> 00:40:58.014
which I applaud anybody who

00:40:58.034 --> 00:40:59.514
would do this to sit down,

00:40:59.594 --> 00:41:01.394
share this diagram with

00:41:01.514 --> 00:41:03.614
people on your team and ask them, hey,

00:41:03.675 --> 00:41:04.755
this is a safe place.

00:41:05.275 --> 00:41:06.596
Could you please share with

00:41:06.655 --> 00:41:08.215
me which quadrant feels

00:41:08.496 --> 00:41:10.496
most reflective of your

00:41:10.556 --> 00:41:11.416
experience under my

00:41:11.436 --> 00:41:13.896
leadership so that I have

00:41:13.936 --> 00:41:15.197
some ideas of how I can

00:41:15.516 --> 00:41:16.637
become a better leader for you?

00:41:16.657 --> 00:41:18.858
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

00:41:18.878 --> 00:41:20.018
I love those.

00:41:21.172 --> 00:41:22.353
really practical steps that

00:41:22.393 --> 00:41:23.114
people can take.

00:41:23.414 --> 00:41:25.277
Depending on your boldness, listener,

00:41:25.356 --> 00:41:27.179
you can choose which of

00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:29.461
those you decide to lean into this week.

00:41:30.121 --> 00:41:32.023
But as we wrap up our episode this week,

00:41:32.043 --> 00:41:35.387
we want to remind you all of the tools,

00:41:35.427 --> 00:41:36.389
the images will be in the

00:41:36.429 --> 00:41:37.230
show notes so you can

00:41:37.289 --> 00:41:38.592
navigate down there to find them.

00:41:39.932 --> 00:41:40.554
While you're there,

00:41:40.673 --> 00:41:41.894
go ahead and hit subscribe

00:41:41.974 --> 00:41:42.675
so that you make sure that

00:41:42.695 --> 00:41:43.735
you don't miss any of these

00:41:43.956 --> 00:41:44.815
conversations.

00:41:45.637 --> 00:41:47.137
The first several episodes

00:41:47.277 --> 00:41:48.539
of our podcast are just

00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:50.440
literally laying out the

00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.141
tools that we teach our

00:41:53.181 --> 00:41:54.643
clients for free to you.

00:41:54.882 --> 00:41:56.063
So take advantage of that.

00:41:56.143 --> 00:41:57.364
Go back and listen to all of them.

00:41:57.844 --> 00:41:58.666
And lastly,

00:41:59.706 --> 00:42:00.827
we have a free gift for you down there.

00:42:01.568 --> 00:42:02.568
A mini course that we have

00:42:02.588 --> 00:42:03.728
developed called five shifts,

00:42:04.088 --> 00:42:06.130
five shifts to become the

00:42:06.170 --> 00:42:07.831
leader you wish you had.

00:42:08.507 --> 00:42:09.728
So you can sign up for that

00:42:09.949 --> 00:42:11.650
down in the show notes as well.

00:42:12.409 --> 00:42:12.990
We hope that this

00:42:13.010 --> 00:42:13.791
conversation has been

00:42:13.951 --> 00:42:14.931
encouraging and that there

00:42:14.952 --> 00:42:15.692
are some pieces that you

00:42:15.731 --> 00:42:17.353
can take away to implement

00:42:17.373 --> 00:42:19.114
to become the best version

00:42:19.153 --> 00:42:20.994
of yourself as you lead others this week.

00:42:21.295 --> 00:42:22.695
Can I add one little thing, Dawn?

00:42:22.775 --> 00:42:24.137
I would love to really

00:42:24.177 --> 00:42:24.836
encourage our listeners.

00:42:25.018 --> 00:42:26.157
There might be something

00:42:26.217 --> 00:42:28.360
they hear in the episode

00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:29.179
today or in a previous

00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:30.581
episode that they think, gosh,

00:42:30.661 --> 00:42:31.561
I just wish I had somebody

00:42:31.601 --> 00:42:32.581
to process this with.

00:42:32.782 --> 00:42:34.121
Like it's something

00:42:34.262 --> 00:42:35.103
something we're saying in

00:42:35.123 --> 00:42:36.262
the in the sessions is

00:42:36.483 --> 00:42:38.342
triggering some some really

00:42:38.463 --> 00:42:40.563
important critical areas of

00:42:40.603 --> 00:42:41.664
their life experience.

00:42:42.003 --> 00:42:43.003
We want to we just want to

00:42:43.043 --> 00:42:44.224
encourage you go to our website.

00:42:44.244 --> 00:42:46.304
You can sign up for a free coaching call.

00:42:47.244 --> 00:42:48.224
No strings attached.

00:42:48.284 --> 00:42:49.306
We just really want to help

00:42:49.365 --> 00:42:50.766
people like yourselves out

00:42:50.806 --> 00:42:53.206
there who are in the daily

00:42:53.246 --> 00:42:54.286
grind of trying to figure

00:42:54.327 --> 00:42:55.646
out how to become a better leader.

00:42:56.106 --> 00:42:56.967
If we can help you and

00:42:57.007 --> 00:42:58.849
encourage you in a free coaching call,

00:42:58.869 --> 00:43:00.048
we'd love to be able to do that.

00:43:01.309 --> 00:43:03.530
And it's going to be one of

00:43:03.610 --> 00:43:04.572
us probably on the call.

00:43:04.592 --> 00:43:06.532
Surprise, surprise.

00:43:06.552 --> 00:43:07.733
It will be.

00:43:08.393 --> 00:43:08.773
All right.

00:43:09.173 --> 00:43:09.934
Thank you, listeners.

00:43:09.974 --> 00:43:11.074
We will be back next week

00:43:11.215 --> 00:43:12.655
with another tool for you.