237 | Navigating End-of-Session Challenges: Taking Toys and Child Won't Leave the Playroom

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You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr. Brenna Hicks.

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Your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.

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Hi, I'm Dr. Brenna Hicks, The Kid Counselor.

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This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get

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a master class in child-centered Play therapy

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and practical support and application for your

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work with children and their families.

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In today's episode. I am answering a question from Jess

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in Florida,

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another Floridian fellow Floridian.

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And interestingly, she's in the Tampa area, which is right where I am.

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So Jess, I'm so glad that you reached out. Thank you.

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And her question is about a child wanting to take something from the playroom.

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And I've covered

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questions along this line before but not this specific situation,

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which was not specifically that he was trying to take it, which we've talked about,

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but this was that it ended up pushing the session so much longer.

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And there was another child waiting in the waiting room

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and then this child refused to leave the playroom once he put the toy back.

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So kind of some complicated layers of a child

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wanting to take something home.

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So we're going to dive into that before we do.

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I mentioned yesterday that

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we are going to do a live event.

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I have some further details for you.

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If you go to www.playtherapypodcast.com/live

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L I V E,

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you will be able to register for the event.

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The requirement is that you have to have a Zoom account.

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So please be mindful.

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If you do not have a Zoom account,

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you will not be able to register and that's easy to establish one.

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So if you don't just go ahead and create a Zoom account,

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then you can register www.playtherapypodcast.com/live

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and you'll be able to secure your spot.

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And the way that that will work is I will do an actual podcast episode.

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So I will talk for the 1st

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10

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ish minutes.

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I know it's not always around 10 minutes, but whatever that happens to be,

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we'll talk and then I'll open it up to live. Q and A

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and for those of you who are not coaching participants and not Collective members,

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I wanna let you know, I am reserving the Q and A

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for podcast listeners specifically.

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So if you are not a Collective member and you are not a coaching participant,

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you will have the floor for Q and A on this live event.

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So please make sure that you RSVP for that.

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I'm really looking forward to having you there, January 3rd at 2 p.m. Eastern.

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All right. So let me read parts of Jess's email

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and then we'll dive in and we'll talk about this together.

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Hi, I hope this email finds you.

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Well,

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I've been listening to both of your podcasts for a while and find them so helpful.

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I also work in the Tampa area.

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So it was wild for me to learn that your practice is close.

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I was a 2nd and 3rd grade teacher while I was working on my master's degree.

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And your podcast has helped me unlearn

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a lot of ways that I choose to interact with children,

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both in the therapy setting and in my daily life.

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And I'm gonna pause there for a second because

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so many of you

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are former school people.

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So your guidance counselors, your teachers, your daycare workers, many,

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many of you have backgrounds in child education.

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And it makes me so

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genuinely happy and content

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to know that CCPT has changed your lives and that

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you have learned a different way to be with children.

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And so for all of you ex school people,

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I want you to know, I have a very special place in my heart for you all.

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And I'm so grateful that you saw that CCPT was a more effective, more

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appropriate way to interact and that you came in

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this direction. So

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really happy for you, Jess that,

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that the podcast was kind of able to decondition some of the school stuff.

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Ok. I'll continue.

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I've recently started play therapy with a firstborn seven year old

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who is described by his parents to have ODD.

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Um, no,

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he's very combative

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and often throws temper tantrums when he does not get his way.

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The first few sessions in the playroom have gone well.

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But this week I was met with a challenge

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while we were finishing our session.

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I noticed that he was trying to sneak a small toy Lego treasure chest

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and take it home with him.

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I first stated, you really like that treasure chest but the play therapy

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Legos are not for taking home.

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He then tried multiple times to pretend that he was putting it

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in the Lego storage bin but was still holding on to it.

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I then switched to, if you choose not to put the toy away,

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then you choose not to play with the Legos.

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Next week,

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this was a very hard choice for him.

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And due to this situation, our session went way over the 50 minute allotted time.

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He did end up putting the toy back,

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but then curled himself into a ball on the floor

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and refused to come with me to the lobby.

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I was not sure what to do at that point. And because I had another client waiting,

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I ended up going to get his mother who came in,

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scratched his back and proceeded to carry him out of the room.

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I'm wondering for the future,

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how I could have handled this situation better or differently.

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Thank you for the help and again,

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for all of the free resources you provide

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to help the mental health worker population.

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Ok, Jess.

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Well, thank you so much for the email and,

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and thanks for giving us the details of the aftermath of limit setting

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and we'll talk through this. So

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for those of you that might be new to the podcast first.

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Hello, so glad to have you happy that you're here happy that you found your people.

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And if you have not gone in order,

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I would really encourage and recommend that you start at episode one

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and go through because there's a chronology and

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a teaching that goes through the podcast.

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So if you're on this episode and you've not been at the one through

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200

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whatever,

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please go back and do that. It will really make a huge difference.

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By the way,

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this is a related aside,

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we are almost encroaching on the 450,000

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download mark. And I know I'm saying this because this is noteworthy.

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I know it was not so long ago that I announced we were close to the 300,000

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and it has almost been 150,000 downloads in a really,

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really short amount of time.

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So you all just blow me away. And I'm so grateful to be a part of this podcast.

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It's,

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it's incredible to me that the passion and the hunger and the desire to learn CCPT

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is just taking over the world and it just makes my heart happy.

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So I wanted to celebrate that with you because

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Eric mentioned to me a couple of days ago,

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we're coming up on the 450,000 and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to tell them.

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So

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anyway,

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please go back and listen in order and you can binge,

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listen many people email me and say that's what they've been doing.

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And I think this is not so, but apparently a lot of you put me on

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quicker time.

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So you put me on like 1.5 or 1.75.

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I think a couple of you really brave crazy people put me on 2.0

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so although it makes me sound like a chipmunk,

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I don't know how you handle the speed of that.

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But anyway,

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if you want to catch up, you can speed me up. I don't know what,

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I don't know how I think about that, but whatever.

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All right. So let's dive into this question. So Jess,

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you mentioned that.

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Actually,

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I'm gonna unpack a little bit of these details before

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I get into the answer because this is noteworthy.

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OK. Seven year old described to have ODD,

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not a chance in this world respectfully and lovingly

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the, the description of he's combative and throws temper tantrums.

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That's

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dysregulation,

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that's lack of emotional vocabulary,

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that's lack of

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self control.

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And at this point, he has been conditioned

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that if he escalates, he gets his way,

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there is nothing oppositional or defiant about that.

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It's a conditioned response because of dysregulation

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and

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doesn't possess emotional vocabulary and self control. So let's

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get the diagnosis out of the way because it's not warranted.

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And the fact that the first few sessions,

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as you said went, well,

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that's the honeymoon phase

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and that's the warm up and the initiation.

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And we know that we typically see the best out of kids in the early few weeks.

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But we also know that they can't mask

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their junk forever.

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So then when you're at this point where he really wants the chest,

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that is a very standard part of the process. So those were my thoughts leading up to

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the taking of the Lego.

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All right. So

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he was trying to sneak the toy chest and take it home with him.

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So you said I first stated you really like that chest,

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but the play therapy legos are not for taking home.

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All right,

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helpful pseudo

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limit.

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And what I mean by pseudo for those of you that may not know my

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lingo

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is you didn't go through full ACT you did the A and the C

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and you waited to see if he was able or willing to comply.

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All right, now, I'm only going to tweak one piece of the limit.

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You said the play therapy legos are not for taking home.

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That is

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true and appropriate. And it's not deviant from the model,

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but I'm going to broaden it a little bit

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because the play therapy, legos are not for taking home.

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First of all, we don't need to say the word play therapy.

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A child doesn't need to know that it's play therapy if they do so be it.

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But we don't need to refer to anything about what we're doing as play therapy.

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It's just they get to come and play with us.

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So I would eliminate the play therapy phrase out of that in general.

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And at

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that point, it would be, but the LEGOS are not for taking home.

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However, I'm gonna broaden this again

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if we are specific in our limit and say the LEGOS are not for taking home.

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Then the next week, the child might try to take home

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coins. I had to think about something they were trying to put in their pocket coins

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or

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a marker

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or a dart

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or a magnet rock or whatever. So when we set limits, we have to be thoughtful

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about

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what is the broadest context of the limit,

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which in this case, it would be, the toys are not for taking home.

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So

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you really like that treasure chest, but the toys are not for taking home.

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That would be to follow your phrasing. I would actually say

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you really like that treasure chest,

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but all of the toys are for staying in the playroom.

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That's the way I would phrase that

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because remember when we set limits,

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it's A is not for B, or X is for Y.

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So you chose

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A is not for B

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the play therapy. Legos are not for taking home.

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X is for Y

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is the way I would phrase it. All the toys are for staying in the playroom

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just a different way to say it. But I think by not using the not,

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by keeping it in the positive frame,

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I think it makes it a little bit more palatable.

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All the toys are for staying here.

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That's just the,

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the gentler way to say it in my opinion. However, Jess, what you said was not off track

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with the tweaks. So

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the toys are not for taking home would be appropriate,

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but I would just flip it to the positive. Ok.

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So that was on target.

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So then it says,

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then he tried multiple times to pretend that he was putting it

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into the storage bin but was still holding on to it.

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Ok?

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You didn't give us any insight into how you addressed that,

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but let's walk through that part.

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So

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you are going to reflect and you're going to acknowledge.

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So.

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Mhm

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You really wish that you could take that. But you know, the toys are for staying here

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and you're acting like you're putting it in the bin,

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but it looks like you still have it in your hand.

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And again, I have no frame of reference for what you actually said,

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00:12:09,630 --> 00:12:10,289
but

250
00:12:10,489 --> 00:12:13,750
it's really helpful to continue to validate feelings

251
00:12:14,359 --> 00:12:18,669
and then continue to track behavior and acknowledge what you see happening

252
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:20,909
and notice that it's done without judgment.

253
00:12:21,489 --> 00:12:22,609
So it's just,

254
00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:24,909
hm, it looks like you're pretending to put it back,

255
00:12:24,919 --> 00:12:26,869
but you might still have it in your hand.

256
00:12:27,330 --> 00:12:29,989
It's gentle, it's loving, it's patient

257
00:12:30,729 --> 00:12:31,030
and,

258
00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:34,309
and here's something I'm gonna take a little bit of a left turn and then come back.

259
00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:38,109
We have to be mindful of few things in this scenario.

260
00:12:38,429 --> 00:12:39,789
First of all, the goal

261
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,710
is that the child

262
00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:42,940
self controls,

263
00:12:44,239 --> 00:12:48,729
that's the goal. The ultimate goal of limit setting is the child chooses to comply

264
00:12:49,630 --> 00:12:51,489
and is able to self control.

265
00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:54,580
And sometimes that takes a while

266
00:12:54,969 --> 00:12:57,179
and sometimes they have to really wrestle with that.

267
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,690
So we're not trying to speed it up, we're not trying to force it.

268
00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:03,489
We're not trying to coerce or bribe or negotiate.

269
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:06,359
We're waiting for the child to choose to comply

270
00:13:06,979 --> 00:13:09,669
and we're waiting for the child to self control.

271
00:13:10,969 --> 00:13:11,789
Also,

272
00:13:12,309 --> 00:13:16,369
we know that a child sometimes needs upwards of 60 seconds to process a choice.

273
00:13:17,250 --> 00:13:21,590
So when we watch a child wrestling with a limit that has been given and a choice and an,

274
00:13:21,599 --> 00:13:23,890
and an enforcement choice that we've provided,

275
00:13:24,890 --> 00:13:27,789
we have to sometimes give them time and space,

276
00:13:28,380 --> 00:13:31,390
they sometimes need 60 seconds to process this.

277
00:13:31,729 --> 00:13:33,830
So it does become a slow process

278
00:13:34,239 --> 00:13:37,250
and we can't expect it to go quickly. Their brains

279
00:13:37,549 --> 00:13:38,510
don't think

280
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,530
they don't

281
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:43,280
cognitively address these things. They are in their feelings.

282
00:13:43,349 --> 00:13:47,070
So all he feels is, he wants the Lego treasure chest.

283
00:13:47,890 --> 00:13:51,010
And so to force him to think through the choice,

284
00:13:51,219 --> 00:13:53,210
it's very hard and it takes a while.

285
00:13:53,270 --> 00:13:55,880
And then finally because of that, we have to be patient.

286
00:13:56,909 --> 00:13:58,250
When we set limits,

287
00:13:58,390 --> 00:14:00,099
we have to have a lot of patience.

288
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,049
My mother-in-law,

289
00:14:02,750 --> 00:14:04,859
I'll tell a really, really quick related story.

290
00:14:05,140 --> 00:14:06,330
My mother-in-law

291
00:14:06,950 --> 00:14:09,900
lived with us for a little while before our house was built

292
00:14:10,650 --> 00:14:12,859
and our son was pretty young at the time.

293
00:14:13,159 --> 00:14:13,789
And

294
00:14:13,950 --> 00:14:15,830
I've only ever raised my son

295
00:14:16,289 --> 00:14:17,710
in CCPT fashion.

296
00:14:17,719 --> 00:14:21,510
He's only ever known child-centered play therapy as a parenting approach.

297
00:14:22,030 --> 00:14:23,419
And she would

298
00:14:24,070 --> 00:14:26,510
watch and listen to me give choices and

299
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,989
she would watch and listen to me provide limits

300
00:14:29,349 --> 00:14:30,150
and

301
00:14:30,390 --> 00:14:32,789
I would just calmly

302
00:14:33,250 --> 00:14:36,479
consistently reiterate the choice again and again and again,

303
00:14:36,489 --> 00:14:39,030
and I would consistently state the limit again and again and again.

304
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,340
And one day she looked at me and she said, Brennan, you have the patience of Job

305
00:14:43,599 --> 00:14:45,900
and for those of you that may not know that Bible story,

306
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,479
it's, it's a reference to someone who

307
00:14:48,789 --> 00:14:51,219
really, really, really suffered for a long time.

308
00:14:51,229 --> 00:14:55,380
And she was referencing that she felt like it was just absolute suffering and

309
00:14:55,390 --> 00:15:00,630
misery to wait out our son being able to comply with choices and limits

310
00:15:01,809 --> 00:15:04,409
and that just that I've never forgotten that.

311
00:15:04,419 --> 00:15:08,390
And I find that funny because I don't feel like I'm especially patient.

312
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,270
I don't feel like that's especially taxing or difficult

313
00:15:11,599 --> 00:15:13,570
to just wait for a child to choose

314
00:15:14,250 --> 00:15:18,349
to wait for a child to comply. I think that that's the ideal scenario.

315
00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:20,989
I don't feel angry that I have to wait for it.

316
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,890
I just wait for it because I know that it's a part of the process.

317
00:15:24,169 --> 00:15:24,750
So

318
00:15:25,119 --> 00:15:27,750
anyway, that was a side story that was related.

319
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,909
But these are the things we have to keep in mind

320
00:15:30,049 --> 00:15:33,710
the goals that the child self controls, the child chooses to comply.

321
00:15:34,229 --> 00:15:37,789
We have to sometimes give them 60 seconds every time we do it,

322
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,049
we have to be really patient.

323
00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:41,150
And then number four,

324
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,750
you give a limit three times.

325
00:15:44,580 --> 00:15:46,479
So we're going to go through that process

326
00:15:46,489 --> 00:15:48,760
three times before we jump to ultimate limit

327
00:15:50,059 --> 00:15:52,909
because we need to be assured that the child

328
00:15:52,919 --> 00:15:55,799
is unwilling or unable to comply with the limit

329
00:15:56,090 --> 00:15:57,320
and they need to be

330
00:15:57,469 --> 00:15:59,280
given the opportunity three times.

331
00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:02,650
So now that we've talked through all that

332
00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:05,280
he

333
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,590
was given the ultimate limit.

334
00:16:07,940 --> 00:16:11,549
I don't know if you did the A and the C before you jump to that. But

335
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:12,880
you said

336
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:15,080
you choose, if you choose not to put the toy away,

337
00:16:15,090 --> 00:16:17,219
then you choose not to play with the Legos next week.

338
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:18,109
Ok.

339
00:16:18,489 --> 00:16:20,539
So here's my tweak for that.

340
00:16:22,940 --> 00:16:24,429
Every play session

341
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:26,200
is a new day

342
00:16:28,109 --> 00:16:29,960
and nothing carries over.

343
00:16:31,130 --> 00:16:31,989
So

344
00:16:32,179 --> 00:16:34,909
you can do an ultimate choice where they choose not

345
00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:36,989
to play with the toy for that play session.

346
00:16:38,020 --> 00:16:41,289
So the child continues to hit you with the nunchucks.

347
00:16:41,429 --> 00:16:44,049
And after three rounds of it, you move to ultimate limit.

348
00:16:44,059 --> 00:16:46,979
And you say if you choose to play with the nunchucks

349
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,359
and not hurt me, you choose to continue to play with them.

350
00:16:50,369 --> 00:16:52,219
But if you choose to hurt me with the nun chucks,

351
00:16:52,229 --> 00:16:54,380
you choose not to play with them for the rest of our time today.

352
00:16:54,390 --> 00:16:55,260
Which do you choose

353
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,580
that's appropriate because it's related to that specific play session.

354
00:16:59,979 --> 00:17:02,460
Nothing carries over to the following play session.

355
00:17:02,780 --> 00:17:06,060
So we would never want a whole week to go by and then have

356
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:08,930
them come in and not be able to play with Legos the following week.

357
00:17:08,939 --> 00:17:11,579
It's a clean slate every single time they walk into the play room.

358
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,760
So that would not be part of the ultimate limit.

359
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:17,699
And I would argue that

360
00:17:18,439 --> 00:17:23,030
you wouldn't want to put the ultimate limit parameters around the LEGOS.

361
00:17:23,420 --> 00:17:25,050
I would argue you would want to put

362
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:27,979
the ultimate parameters around leaving the playroom.

363
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,670
So here's what I mean by that,

364
00:17:30,650 --> 00:17:31,880
you really

365
00:17:32,140 --> 00:17:34,250
don't want to put the treasure chest back.

366
00:17:34,260 --> 00:17:36,380
But you know, all the toys are for staying here

367
00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:42,099
and our time is up for today. So there's kind of two expectations here.

368
00:17:42,109 --> 00:17:45,439
Not only does the chest remain, but we need to leave. Right.

369
00:17:45,719 --> 00:17:49,339
So, and our time is up for today would be probably added on to that limit

370
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,859
if you had to move to ultimate limits

371
00:17:52,109 --> 00:17:52,810
I would say

372
00:17:53,650 --> 00:17:55,270
if you choose to

373
00:17:55,869 --> 00:17:57,369
give me the chest,

374
00:17:58,130 --> 00:17:59,750
you choose to

375
00:18:01,030 --> 00:18:03,660
hop down the hallway to go see mom.

376
00:18:04,310 --> 00:18:07,140
If you choose to not give me the chest,

377
00:18:07,339 --> 00:18:10,630
you choose to hop down the hallway to go see mom and

378
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,010
then you choose to give her the chest in the lobby.

379
00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:13,969
Which do you choose?

380
00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:20,229
See how now it's about getting out of the room going out.

381
00:18:20,239 --> 00:18:23,910
But the expectation is if you choose not to put it in the room,

382
00:18:24,069 --> 00:18:25,829
you're still going to give it back.

383
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:27,829
So you can choose to give it to me

384
00:18:28,079 --> 00:18:30,560
or you can choose to give it to mom. Another option is

385
00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:33,030
if you choose to leave it in the playroom,

386
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,040
you choose to

387
00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:37,910
have time to get a snack. For example,

388
00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:40,619
if you choose to take it with you,

389
00:18:40,810 --> 00:18:43,880
you choose not to have snack and you choose to give it to mom in the lobby,

390
00:18:43,890 --> 00:18:44,839
which do you choose?

391
00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:49,349
So our ultimate limit is really about getting out of

392
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,589
the room and making sure the Lego is put back

393
00:18:52,780 --> 00:18:55,670
because here's what happens in your scenario, Jess,

394
00:18:56,459 --> 00:19:00,199
if you choose not to put the toy away, then you choose not to play with Legos.

395
00:19:00,209 --> 00:19:00,869
Next week,

396
00:19:01,099 --> 00:19:02,750
you wanna know how that can be interpreted?

397
00:19:03,540 --> 00:19:04,290
OK, good.

398
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:07,239
I get to keep the treasure chest and then I just, I won't play with them next week.

399
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:07,859
Who cares?

400
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,199
And then guess what? When he finally two weeks down the road?

401
00:19:11,209 --> 00:19:12,609
Gets to play with Legos again.

402
00:19:12,869 --> 00:19:14,180
Then he takes

403
00:19:14,380 --> 00:19:15,839
six Lego pieces

404
00:19:16,219 --> 00:19:18,540
and goes, I just won't play with them next week.

405
00:19:20,270 --> 00:19:21,849
Means to an end for a child.

406
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,540
So we don't ever want to get ourselves stuck

407
00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:26,540
where we end up getting bitten in the butt.

408
00:19:26,550 --> 00:19:28,560
By the way, that we phrased a limit.

409
00:19:28,949 --> 00:19:33,140
And the goal is always that the Lego remains

410
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,890
in your office. It doesn't have to stay in the playroom necessarily,

411
00:19:37,020 --> 00:19:38,569
but it remains in the office.

412
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:40,400
So I hope that that's helpful.

413
00:19:40,510 --> 00:19:42,400
And then finally,

414
00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:44,099
when he

415
00:19:45,790 --> 00:19:47,099
finally put it back,

416
00:19:47,380 --> 00:19:49,400
huge moment of celebration.

417
00:19:49,670 --> 00:19:52,439
Huge. Now we don't react. We don't know

418
00:19:53,060 --> 00:19:55,739
or we don't let them know rather that we're celebrating,

419
00:19:55,829 --> 00:19:57,660
but we're doing internal cartwheels, right?

420
00:19:57,819 --> 00:20:01,939
So child chose to self-control, child chose to comply.

421
00:20:02,250 --> 00:20:03,459
He was obedient

422
00:20:03,670 --> 00:20:05,819
and he was able to self regulate

423
00:20:06,349 --> 00:20:08,380
monumental moment.

424
00:20:08,729 --> 00:20:10,959
However, it took everything in him.

425
00:20:11,369 --> 00:20:12,819
So he fell apart.

426
00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:15,959
Now, this is a kid who supposedly has ODD,

427
00:20:16,199 --> 00:20:17,359
I'm air quoting

428
00:20:18,020 --> 00:20:18,839
and then

429
00:20:19,030 --> 00:20:22,239
also is known to have tantrums and combative.

430
00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:27,349
All he did was curl himself up in a ball. That's also self-regulation.

431
00:20:27,489 --> 00:20:29,170
That's also self control.

432
00:20:29,310 --> 00:20:30,290
Huge win.

433
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,319
So all of that is something to celebrate.

434
00:20:33,739 --> 00:20:38,229
However, now he's curled up in a ball and won't leave. He's just overwhelmed.

435
00:20:38,239 --> 00:20:41,189
That was really, really hard. We go right back to reflecting.

436
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:44,170
Oh, that was a really hard choice.

437
00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:47,089
And you chose to put it back so you could have Legos next week, but

438
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:50,709
you're really upset. You really wish that you could take that home.

439
00:20:50,869 --> 00:20:51,290
Oh,

440
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:55,300
you're choosing not to leave because you just don't feel like you're ready to go yet.

441
00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:58,969
We just go right back into reflection and acknowledging.

442
00:20:59,930 --> 00:21:00,619
Now,

443
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,630
Jess, you said there was someone waiting for you,

444
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,969
another client waiting and you weren't sure what to do.

445
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,310
I will help you. So you know what to do

446
00:21:08,959 --> 00:21:10,040
and we've all been there.

447
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:11,569
You

448
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:12,859
sit down

449
00:21:13,469 --> 00:21:16,709
and you rub his back or you touch his shoulder or

450
00:21:16,719 --> 00:21:18,369
you put your hand on the back of his head.

451
00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:19,420
If he lets you,

452
00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:23,380
if he shrugs off and goes, oh, don't touch me, then you know,

453
00:21:23,390 --> 00:21:24,670
he can't receive affection.

454
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,050
But

455
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:27,099
you

456
00:21:27,469 --> 00:21:30,660
sit down and you physically touch the child

457
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,650
and you continue to say all of the

458
00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:36,760
validating understanding.

459
00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:40,540
I'm here. I hear you. I understand. I care and I delight in you, things

460
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:43,479
and you gently say,

461
00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:48,239
oh, you're really upset and you really didn't want to have to put that back. But

462
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:50,800
our time's up and it's time to go out and see mom

463
00:21:52,569 --> 00:21:55,280
and you just constantly remind him that time is up and it's

464
00:21:55,290 --> 00:21:58,510
time to go see mom and he will eventually also choose,

465
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,569
see, this is basically a pseudo limit.

466
00:22:00,790 --> 00:22:05,209
He's now going to choose to get up and go out to the lobby. Might it take a little bit?

467
00:22:05,219 --> 00:22:06,760
Sure. And here's the thing

468
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:07,829
don't ever,

469
00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:11,030
and I don't really give imperatives or,

470
00:22:11,250 --> 00:22:12,569
or mandates,

471
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,189
but this is to all of you

472
00:22:14,650 --> 00:22:15,869
don't ever

473
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,459
feel like you have pressure

474
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,189
to do something because there's another kid waiting.

475
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,020
Don't ever put that pressure on yourself. You wanna know what's gonna happen.

476
00:22:25,030 --> 00:22:28,369
You're gonna finish doing whatever you need to do with that child

477
00:22:29,329 --> 00:22:32,329
and they're going to leave and you're going to immediately look

478
00:22:32,339 --> 00:22:34,689
at the parent and the child that have been waiting for you

479
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:36,189
and you're gonna say,

480
00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:40,329
I'm sorry, I know that I ran over. I really appreciate your patience.

481
00:22:40,339 --> 00:22:43,959
We were dealing with some pretty deep stuff at the end of that and I couldn't rush it

482
00:22:44,979 --> 00:22:46,229
and guess what they're gonna say.

483
00:22:46,439 --> 00:22:48,270
I completely understand it's ok.

484
00:22:49,109 --> 00:22:51,280
And then you still give that child the full time.

485
00:22:53,229 --> 00:22:56,219
I've had people leave in reviews for me before

486
00:22:56,609 --> 00:23:00,459
that they appreciate the fact that I give extra time. If a kid needs it,

487
00:23:02,270 --> 00:23:05,310
parents have put that in reviews, I didn't ask them to.

488
00:23:05,349 --> 00:23:07,050
It's just something that they valued.

489
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,699
We don't ever have to rush something because you know

490
00:23:11,709 --> 00:23:13,959
what they would want the same for their own kid.

491
00:23:14,479 --> 00:23:16,339
If that was their kids struggling,

492
00:23:16,780 --> 00:23:20,099
they would want us to give that child time to work through that

493
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,140
and time to go through the therapeutic process.

494
00:23:23,699 --> 00:23:26,180
So you just acknowledge why you're late.

495
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,099
You apologize and you thank them for their grace and their patience

496
00:23:30,459 --> 00:23:33,030
and there is never an issue with going back late.

497
00:23:33,459 --> 00:23:37,390
So please be really aware that you don't have to feel pressure

498
00:23:37,530 --> 00:23:38,959
to rush out there.

499
00:23:39,869 --> 00:23:40,829
And

500
00:23:41,209 --> 00:23:42,750
my final thought

501
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,619
when we set limits about taking things home or

502
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:49,160
wanting to have stuff outside of the playroom,

503
00:23:49,219 --> 00:23:49,229
a

504
00:23:49,489 --> 00:23:51,979
really helpful phrase to throw in there

505
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:53,390
is

506
00:23:54,349 --> 00:23:56,209
you can play with it again next time.

507
00:23:57,349 --> 00:23:59,869
So as part of the whole ACT process,

508
00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:03,589
oh, you really like that treasure chest and you wish you could take it home.

509
00:24:03,849 --> 00:24:04,449
But

510
00:24:04,569 --> 00:24:08,089
you know, all the toys are for staying here, but you can play with it again next time.

511
00:24:10,270 --> 00:24:14,339
Now, one of the choices can sometimes be, you can choose where to put it.

512
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:20,069
So you can choose to hide it in the room and see if it's there when you come back,

513
00:24:20,229 --> 00:24:23,079
or you can choose to put it in a secret spot

514
00:24:23,859 --> 00:24:26,839
and then you can check to see if it's there next time. Which do you choose?

515
00:24:27,459 --> 00:24:31,280
Notice that there's all kinds of ways to give choices that are not

516
00:24:31,699 --> 00:24:32,880
in the way that we think

517
00:24:33,439 --> 00:24:35,989
the goal is just that the child chooses to leave it.

518
00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:37,020
So

519
00:24:37,189 --> 00:24:40,160
it can be where they want it to stay, where they want to hide it,

520
00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:43,939
where they want to see if no one else will even know it's there,

521
00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:46,280
there's all kinds of ways that we can add that in.

522
00:24:46,290 --> 00:24:47,540
But either way

523
00:24:48,010 --> 00:24:51,319
we want to also say, and you know, you can play with it again next time.

524
00:24:51,729 --> 00:24:54,819
You know, it'll be here now. The why matters. Hashtag

525
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,109
So here's

526
00:24:57,270 --> 00:24:59,699
something else you need to sometimes throw out there.

527
00:25:00,390 --> 00:25:03,349
The why that the toys are not for taking from the playroom?

528
00:25:03,410 --> 00:25:05,790
The why that all the toys are for staying here.

529
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:11,430
So that every time you come, all the toys are for you and everyone else to play with,

530
00:25:12,699 --> 00:25:16,420
they would never want to have a favorite toy that another kid took home

531
00:25:16,430 --> 00:25:18,349
and then they come in and they don't get to play with it.

532
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:19,939
That's not fair.

533
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:22,699
Every kid has a sense of fairness and justice.

534
00:25:23,089 --> 00:25:27,300
So when you say all the toys are for staying here, so that every time you come,

535
00:25:27,310 --> 00:25:29,660
every single toy is here for you to play with,

536
00:25:31,420 --> 00:25:36,130
that's really important because it gives them the why and sometimes the why is

537
00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:38,819
helpful for a child to be able to choose to comply with the limit.

538
00:25:39,770 --> 00:25:40,430
So anyway,

539
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:42,250
that's everything I've got Jess.

540
00:25:42,260 --> 00:25:46,459
That's, that's all my thoughts on, on that scenario. I hope that it was helpful.

541
00:25:46,469 --> 00:25:47,869
I hope it's helpful for all of you.

542
00:25:48,010 --> 00:25:50,670
We will always have kids that try to smuggle things out.

543
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,030
It's just the nature of the way it goes.

544
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,550
I've actually shown several videos in the collective of

545
00:25:56,660 --> 00:25:59,880
my own kids trying to take things out of the playroom and how it was handled.

546
00:25:59,890 --> 00:26:03,760
So this is a universal thing that CCPTs face

547
00:26:03,989 --> 00:26:07,819
and it's helpful to feel like we're equipped to manage those moments. So

548
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,599
hope that you all found that helpful,

549
00:26:09,739 --> 00:26:12,930
you know, how much I love you. I hope that you have a great week. We'll talk again soon.

550
00:26:12,939 --> 00:26:13,479
Bye.

551
00:26:14,260 --> 00:26:17,209
Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr

552
00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:20,439
Brenna Hicks. For more episodes and resources.

553
00:26:20,449 --> 00:26:25,319
Please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.