Jimmy Rollins, Part 1: Hall of Fame chances, what made him Phillies star

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, this is Jimmy Rowlands. Welcome to the Phimmy.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: But tomorrow Junior, Jim Salisbury Todd's like a happy Holidays everybody. It's Friday, December twenty sixth, twenty twenty five, and The Philly Show has a special holiday gift for all of you. Jim Rubin and I caught up earlier this week spent some time with Jimmy Rounds, and it was so good. It was so good we decided to do something that we've never done before. We're gonna spread the holiday cheer and make this a two part episode.

00:00:31
Speaker 3: So this is part.

00:00:32
Speaker 2: One of our interview with Jimmy Rounds. Jimmy talks a lot about his chances of making the Hall of Fame, what made him such an elite defender at Shortstop, and his development as a hitter over the years, and as always, if you know Jimmy, a ton of fantastic insight on all of those topics. Part two is gonna come out next week. He talks about the twenty twenty six Phillies. Jim and I share some stories about why we loved covering Jimmy so much, a lot of laughs in Part two, and we finished by talking about what Jimmy is up to off the field. That's six point one podcast with Ryan Howard and Jimmy has a few surprises, a few surprises of what he is up to in the business world right now, but right now. Part one with Jimmy Rowlninds, don't forget if you're watching this on YouTube, we hit the subscribe button and help sport the show by going to the Phillies Show shop dot com. Here we go, everybody, Part one of our interview with Jimmy Rollins, Jay Rowl, Welcome to the Phillies Show.

00:01:44
Speaker 1: Happy holidays, likewise, thanks for having me. Glad to be here with a couple old buddies.

00:01:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, this is so good. We're really excited. We've been looking forward to this for a while. And you know, there's the holidays right now. You got Christmas, you got New Year's and uh, you know for you'll also have like the Baseball Writers Hall of Fame ballots are due in the next couple of weeks, and I'm wondering, does this change this month for you? Do you start looking on the internet to see who's you know? How are you feeling about the Hall of Fame and all that?

00:02:17
Speaker 4: No, Actually, this I can honestly say this might be the first year that I didn't even think about it. And I say that as in, like, I think I've just been so busy, you know, before we came on, I was just talking about the number of We've had two deaths and a birthday and it's all happened within the last month.

00:02:37
Speaker 1: And maybe that's a good thing in.

00:02:39
Speaker 4: A sense that it's taking my mind off of licking or am I going to get a call like hey, you're trending a certain way. So I haven't really had much time to think about it. To be honest, in the past years, I would say I would get a little bit nervous, like, man, you know what's going to be Like, Okay, I'm not going to get in this shit, but what are my numbers going to look like when they announce it. That has been a case this year, and it's I guess it's been a relief in a sense of not having to worry about that because I've been so busy doing so many other things.

00:03:09
Speaker 2: I mean, certainly, you know, all three of us have said on this show many times, we think we think you're a Hall of Famer. I was just looking at Jason Storry. I don't want to like embarrass you or anything like that, but Jason Stark had these great numbers. I just want to read a couple of them for you.

00:03:22
Speaker 1: And why I think so.

00:03:24
Speaker 2: Jimmy Rownd, Derek Jeter, cal Rick and the only shortstops in baseball history at least two hundred homers, twenty four hundred hits, eight hundred and fifty seven extra base hits are more than any other shortstop in history not named Derek Jeter or cal Ripkin. Nine straight seasons with at least fifty extra base hits and or nine Street nine seasons with at least fifty extra base hits and thirty steals, more seasons than any shortstop who's ever lived. Only shortstop ever, two hundred homers, four hundred stolen bases, MVP franchise hit later you know, go Glover. You know, and I've said this too before, Jimmy, Like, I really appreciate the way you played shortstop. Now, like once you're you know, I'm like, god, man, it was like an event when Jimmy made.

00:04:11
Speaker 3: An error, right, what happened on that play? Dude?

00:04:17
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, what what in the world happened.

00:04:19
Speaker 3: You don't do that.

00:04:20
Speaker 1: I was.

00:04:21
Speaker 4: I was taught early by John Vukevich. She was a great mantor her mind, a man that I think we all love you either love him hate him. He was one of those guys. There was no middle ground. You love Uk or you hated Vuk. And we had run ins early. We got all that out the way, but man, he drilled me and drilled me along with Larry Boa on making the play, making the routine play. And he would tell me your athleticism will help you make the great plays, but your job is to when that ball is hit to you and it's two outs, the picture should be walking off the mound. And that was always my mentality, where it was no outs went out, two outs, hit it to me and it's over. So when I did making air, very few were feeling. I think maybe it would come from throwing, like just dropping arm angles, you know, getting a two semier having it run. I felt like, man, I didn't do my job and it was almost get the next ball hit to me mentality, so I can make up for it. And there's no way to make up forward unless it's like on one more pitch, like if I make an era era, and it's two whiles, and it's ten more pitches. I cost this pitcher probably in an and that's how I felt. So there was a lot of pride that went in to my defense. I was always a defensive player.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: First.

00:05:33
Speaker 4: I loved offense, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. I love getting on base, stilling and being exciting in that essence, but I loved playing defense. There was never a day I wasn't out there taking ground balls, working on my craft to make sure that I felt confident going into the game. I knew I could catch the ball, but I want to have that confidence that I made every single play that could possibly happen before the game started so when it happened, and always I wanted to look like magic, Like you know, I missed twenty before I called the one and learned how to do it the first time, then a second time, then over again. So it was always a thing for me to go out there put in a work so defense looked effortless and magical.

00:06:16
Speaker 5: It's funny you're talking about We talk about your defense a lot on this show because I loved watching you play defense. I was always amazed at how you mentioned sometimes you get down and two seemen, but your release point was incredibly consistent.

00:06:31
Speaker 3: It was always boom boom.

00:06:33
Speaker 5: And it came across that diamond with a lot of force. I remember your first spring training, Big League spring training at Jack Russell Stadium. You were an invite. Jess Relaford was the start of shortstop and you were there a couple of days and you're working your magic in the infield and DESI comes up to me and goes, this cat can play. And but Nan, people don't realize you used to get on the mom in high school and bringing at ninety four closing out games, right, I mean that arm strength was real.

00:07:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was something that I give a lot of credits to my father, although he wasn't a baseball player. And it's funny, you know, just having all these funerals, you start getting the stories about your parents and aunts and uncles. But my dad always said he played a little bit of baseball. He actually played a lot more than he let on. And this comes from people like now we're around the Rollinson's, the homes and all these people, we played baseball all the time. I'm like, my dad said, he played wine game, got hitting the shin and walked off the field. It's like, no, your dad was out there every week and he tried to play. He wasn't very good, but he was out there, so he had the foresight. When I was twelve years old, we would go over to Lanty College where he went to.

00:07:45
Speaker 1: School, ran track there, and at.

00:07:47
Speaker 4: Twelve, he already had me throwing off the sixty foot mound to give my arm strength, arm strength better for the forty five foot mount that we were playing on. But it wasn't that he wanted my arm strength better for me being a twelve year old. He was looking at next year and the years beyond that. This is where you're going to be. So there's no we already have this part under control. We've dominated this part, but if you really want to dominate. It was learning how to throw the ball through the strike zone from sixty feet six inches, and at that time it's still a big fan of Dave Stewart. I would put my hat down, you know, try to look like smoke and I will try to and I would spin the ball, force him and try to spin it and go have it going through the strike zone, not just to the catcher.

00:08:31
Speaker 1: He would be back there.

00:08:32
Speaker 4: Now, I say, try to throw it through my glove, like, let me stop the ball, don't throw it to the strike zone, throw it through the strike zone. From then I learned about arm strength and about the three quarter releases, trying to really pull down on the ball and make the ball feel like it's going to hit the ground, and just playing out.

00:08:49
Speaker 1: Kurt Schillen did that on the mound.

00:08:50
Speaker 4: He would throw balls that felt like it's going to be in your shin and it was knee high. And so after doing that, we started getting tubes and just working on arm strength because he knew and I knew I wasn't going to be the biggest guy. My dad always said, you don't have to be the biggest, but you're going to be strong, and that when when your opponents play against you, whether it's basketball, football, or baseball, that you want them to walk away say man, that dude can play. So that was that was, you know, I guess what DESI saw my arm strength. There were things that I worked on. None of this was was born in the lab. It took a lot of work in years, but also foresight from my dad understanding what the future was. I was just worried about today. He had the bigger plan, and I was able to stay on track, staying.

00:09:31
Speaker 3: On that defensive theme.

00:09:32
Speaker 6: Jimmy, I mean you to me, were one of the most consistent short suffs. I've seen a lot of them omar vs scale self.

00:09:40
Speaker 3: As far as consistency.

00:09:41
Speaker 6: From what I've seen over the years in my career, I don't think there's anybody as consistent as you were.

00:09:47
Speaker 3: I was wondering, you've only won like four or five gold gloves, you probably four one of eleven of them.

00:09:54
Speaker 7: Does that bother you that you never got to the I mean to me, I felt like you were disrespected in that regard because I didn't see, by any stretch of the imagination, anybody as consistent and as dominant on the field at that.

00:10:09
Speaker 3: Position as you were during the course of your career.

00:10:12
Speaker 4: I appreciate Ruben uh so disrespect. I wouldn't say that far. I just took it, especially in my first two to three years, as in you know, there there there's a there's an order, there's an order, and your time will come. We had Rense Area, We had Orlando guys that were making great plays, Gonzales down in Florida that guys that I looked up to, like, man, they make these crazy looking plays, but they would have, you know, High Arizona just just regular routine balls on the plays that you should make. But they were making extraordinary plays. I think for me the first time, and I wouldn't say disrespect, but I was like, wow, I'm confused. It was I think maybe five oh six when Isterus won it with the Dodgers, and I'm like, there's this no way, There's no way he wins the go glove over me. At that point I kind of got upset and kind of made it a mission. I was never out there to win go gloves. It was out there to play good defense, to be consistent that when the ground balls hit to me, my pitcher knew that that was an out that feels a big double play that need to be turned. Ground ball to me, were turning that double play. But that year I was That's the first time I was really upset about not win. I think I was like, now I put in my time and if there was a line, I was in line before this person. But somehow they leapfrogged me. And at that point that made me upset. But I agree I should have won more than four. I'm grateful to have won four, but I thought there were a number of years that I was just overlooked, disrespected, as you say, but just wasn't given credit for the defense that I played. And I don't know what criteria goes into playing defense. I know a lot of years is about how many hits you get and instead of how many hits you take away. But I was never out of the running. But four is a little low, honestly, but at least I got that four.

00:12:06
Speaker 1: Can't plan about that.

00:12:07
Speaker 8: Well, I'll tell you that from my opinion, there's no question in my mind that you were disrespected, and you should probably add closer to eight or ten of those suckers, because if the criteria were truly about the best glove in the game, which it was originally my dad was getting it back in sixty.

00:12:25
Speaker 6: Four, when it was truly about the defense, there was no question in my mind you were the best year in year out.

00:12:33
Speaker 4: Just I don't disagree route, I don't disagree like and with that, which is a great point which I alluded to. Yeah, it literally became about the best hitting short stop one go gloves, which had nothing to do with defense. And I always said that that what does you know, even talking with riders and you know, National riders like yeah, but this guy hit thirty home runs.

00:12:58
Speaker 1: I'm like, what does it have to do with the fence?

00:13:00
Speaker 4: Absolutely nothing, like absolutely nothing. Those are two different sides. You want to give this guy a silver Slugger, go ahead, But it has nothing to do with making the plays and catching the ball and saving runs and being in the right position, controlling the infield because as a short stop you're the captain, and getting people lined up and cut off some relays, and and honestly getting on the outfielders. I love get on outfielders they made when they threw the ball to the wrong base, Like what are you doing? Like, I'm there's a game that I know that needs to be played that if the situation costs concede this runner advance and to keep this double plan order, then do that. Let's make the right play to give ourselves to get out, get out of an inning. And those were things I felt like I always did and we're control of, but it became it became about the bat and not about the glove.

00:13:46
Speaker 2: And the yeah, the I mean, you know, the defensive metrics now I would love to see nowadays, if you're playing right now, like how you are grade out and like that that cast crushing you know, because defense. Here's another stat I want to where I talk about defense. Defensive run saved. I think you're like one hundred and forty one point one defensive run saves across your career, more than any shortstop and twenty five seasons since the retirement of Ozzie Smith.

00:14:13
Speaker 1: So I didn't know that.

00:14:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of short change on this some of the other like the war metrics on defensive war. I'm like, I would That's why I would love just to see if they could go back and like replicate.

00:14:25
Speaker 4: Right right, yeah that I mean ever, I mean obviously everyone who knows me, Ricky Henners my all time favorite player, no doubt about it. And I said, and people think I'm joking because I've been like five seven since I was twelve, there were times when I played with the kids my age, I've kind of felt like I was cal Ripkin, like one of the taller short stops longer then I would play up though I played with the fourteen fifteen year olds, and then I was like, Okay, now I'm Oggie Smith. And so my game was really evolved around those two until Mike board It came up with the Oakland A and it's like, okay, well here's a guy who literally just catches and throws. Catches and throw. So I had three really good shortstop to kind of model my game after. And it really depended on if I felt tall that day playing with the kids my age, and I was kind of average height versus playing up with the fourteen fifteen year olds and I felt small, so I was always ozzy. So for that comparison, I had no idea.

00:15:19
Speaker 1: Of that. So thanks for that. There's a lot, honestly, and Ruben knows he knows me, well, you guys know me.

00:15:24
Speaker 4: Well, there's a lot about myself and where I fit in that I never paid attention to because that was never my thing. It was only about winning and helping my teammates become better and building a belief system that we can actually win this, Like we're not here to go home every September and watch somebody else pay in October.

00:15:43
Speaker 1: Like we can actually win.

00:15:45
Speaker 4: So all those things if they always say, and I agree, if you play long enough, you're putting in and work and you're healthy enough, you will put up good numbers if you're a good player, and I was able to do that, but a lot of it I just honestly don't know because unless it was to my attention that it was never mindtent other than I alway said I want to be a Hall of Famer.

00:16:04
Speaker 1: That was for sure. I came from the Bay Area.

00:16:07
Speaker 4: I come from the Bay Area, and if you look at the ball players from the Bay Area, it's like it's it's a tradition, like if you're playing this sport, you're planning to be one of the greatest, and ultimately that means getting into the Hall of Fame.

00:16:19
Speaker 5: Wow, he just charged I mean Bay Area Hall of Famers, Henderson Stargell, Ye, Frank Ryan, Joe Morgan. I'm missing uh Vida Blue. I mean he was I'm not sure is he in the Hall of Fame.

00:16:38
Speaker 3: He was a great one.

00:16:39
Speaker 1: If he wasn't, he's a great one.

00:16:41
Speaker 4: But yeah, so there there there's just been a history of ratings there. So I'm like, I didn't I don't well now with c C you know, prior to that, I'm like, I don't want Ricky to be the last one to get in. So now c c CC is taking that. So now it's like, now I don't want see seem to be the last one to get in. Uh so Uh, It's that the Bay Area has always been rich in sports, but especially baseball. Though the Open A's are no longer there, you have the giants that still represent baseball in the Bay.

00:17:13
Speaker 5: What are you most all the times we've talked to I don't know that I've ever asked you, what are you most proud of?

00:17:17
Speaker 3: In your career?

00:17:18
Speaker 5: The all time hits leader, You're on the Wall of Fame, you're an MVP Gogleng All Star World champion, and you're also a soothsayer where the team to beat?

00:17:31
Speaker 4: So that really the seventh season, And I say that because.

00:17:39
Speaker 1: It built the belief system. It it literally was a launching pad for us as an organization.

00:17:46
Speaker 4: For that five year stretch that we had. But it was a belief system and went from us talking about it in spring training the year prior, actually two years prior, where we got close, you know, a week left and somebody knocks us out. In two thousand and six, I think we were all in Washington, d C. Watching the Pirates of Houston, and I remember everybody we saw this soft line drive come off the bat. I forgot who the hitter was and we were jumping up and down like it's in the gap. We got the one game playoff and Bigio just goes up and it's like, what the heck?

00:18:22
Speaker 1: You know?

00:18:22
Speaker 4: Was that us hoping from that to you know, like, you know what, We've been close so many times. The Braves are no longer the division champs, and it was like the light bulb was or the shade off, the division was taken off and it was wide open. And you know Pat Gillick, you know, coming over as a gym and coming in saying we're years away, and you know, I could curse on this, right yeah, sure, I'm like, fuck that, Like, I don't half years. I'm already five six years and two this. I don't have three more years of a rebuild, you know.

00:18:57
Speaker 3: And there was method to his madness there.

00:18:59
Speaker 1: Jimmy, it works.

00:19:01
Speaker 4: It works the hell off, I tell you that much. I don't know anyone else felt about it, Bud. He said that I was pissed.

00:19:07
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

00:19:08
Speaker 2: Bro?

00:19:09
Speaker 4: Like we have it right here, Like what are you talking about? Which led to two thousand and seven, when I was asked about, you know, the division, I'm like, look at what we have.

00:19:18
Speaker 1: The trades were making We're ready, Like we are absolutely ready.

00:19:24
Speaker 4: And it was just more so the Braves losing finally their grip hold on a division. And it was like, we played the Braves well, we played the Mets well. It just wanted the vision. We're not afraid of the fucking Mets, so why not. It's they're older ship.

00:19:38
Speaker 1: That's how I felt. They're really old and we're.

00:19:40
Speaker 4: Really young, and and yeah, we're the team to be and I and I stated why although we got clipped, thankfully got clipped and ran on like a wildfire thanks.

00:19:49
Speaker 1: To ALACKI couldn't wait to get up to New York. But it was really how I felt. It wasn't it wasn't just popping off.

00:20:01
Speaker 4: And you know, yeah, I'll talk trash, don't get me wrong, but I talk trash because I know I have something to bring with it. I'm not just talking for fun or for the sake of it. Sometimes, yes, it is psychological warfare because I want to see how you react. Because I know what I can stand on. I know how to handle my business. But maybe you don't, so I'm adding that pressure to you because if you feel that pressure, that gives me an advantage. So there was a little bit of that in there, but it was more so for us to look inward and black guys, if the Mets can do it, and we can beat the Mets, come on, like let's let's let's be real about this. And it took an entire season, and there were plenty of games, especially in the second half, when we're looking at this big old delta between us and the Mets, and I'm in the Mira after games, after getting our bus kicked, like all right, maybe maybe maybe you bid off loats. How about just get to the playoffs and if you don't win a division, you started out trying to win a division, but you.

00:21:02
Speaker 1: Get to the playoffs as a wild card.

00:21:03
Speaker 3: Just maybe that works.

00:21:04
Speaker 4: Just just you know what, let's get to the playoffs. Then the next night we go win fifteen or two, and it's like, oh shit. It was almost like they felt my energy and God, I really felt like I was being lifted up at times and it's like, nah, we got you, you know, we like we got you. Can get back out there. And I was able to keep you know, pushing forward. But it wasn't all me. It was you know, them believing and from not believing in what I said or thinking I'm crazy to send that belief system start to build up and them lifting me up every time I felt like I was getting ready to fall, and us winning a division although we got knocked out, but to the World Series the next year being the winners losing and then obviously things just didn't go as we as we wanted.

00:21:48
Speaker 1: But it was seen.

00:21:50
Speaker 4: Shoot, at that year, twenty five guys plus how many injuries we had, Reuben, you know, this whole system of guys is coming up and buying into this is hours we will win.

00:22:01
Speaker 1: That was my proudest moment of my career.

00:22:04
Speaker 4: It culminated an MVP, but it was seeing just everybody buy into something.

00:22:09
Speaker 3: To me.

00:22:09
Speaker 5: You you you made that comment and then you wore that comment every day of that and you backed it up.

00:22:18
Speaker 3: So like, what twenty triples.

00:22:20
Speaker 1: Yet thirty home runs.

00:22:24
Speaker 3: Over forty doubles, I don't know.

00:22:28
Speaker 5: I mean, you wore that comment every day and you backed it up.

00:22:33
Speaker 3: It was what an amazing season?

00:22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah it was.

00:22:37
Speaker 4: I lost fifteen pounds by the way, but I felt strong. I felt, you know, usain boat fast. I felt like I was flying that last game of the season when I got that single and a stove sac and stove third.

00:22:50
Speaker 1: You can tell me I wasn't Superman that day.

00:22:56
Speaker 6: It was.

00:22:56
Speaker 1: It was. It was. It was. It was a heavy burden gym, It really was, you know.

00:23:02
Speaker 4: I It wasn't the intent to put that pressure on my teammates or myself. There's enough pressure being being out there, or perceived pressure as as Jalen Hurts puts it, because a lot of it is perceived. It's from the outside influences, and but no one did. There's more pressure inside that clubhouse. And that's looking at each other in the face when we do something good or or or not so good. That's pressure that I have to go in after a moment where I feel like I caused a team, you know, a loss, to look at my teammates and then have to go in front of you guys and answer the questions and stand up. You know, you can't bag away, you can't duck your head. The city doesn't allow that. But if you call yourself a leader, then you have to stand up and take and and take that al take that beating, but show up the next day prepared to write that wrong.

00:23:54
Speaker 3: Jimmy, let's stretch to the offense a little bit.

00:23:56
Speaker 6: I wanted to talk to you because you're not big in stature, you do have great.

00:24:00
Speaker 3: Handspeed as a hitter, and that kind of stuff.

00:24:04
Speaker 9: What happened to you mentally to start to think that you believed in being able to drive the ball consistently into the gaps then later on out of the ballpark. I remember having conversations with the raging thing and no way he's gonna hit thirty runs right.

00:24:21
Speaker 4: That transition. That was something I always knew, how pop. I remember my first home remember my first home run, like out over the fence home run playing in Oakland Bay Ruth. And you know, with with my dad batting practice, I'm launching them just all day. It became a thing. It was just like I just learned how to create that angle to get the ball in the air. But in the game it never happened. Hit my first home run and left center. My dad still still has it. He has he still has the footage of it in center field. He's I hit the ball, he turns the camera and I'm running around the base I'm like, I knew it. I think it was off Erica Cotton, I mean, and she was she was striking with everybody.

00:25:01
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're not gonna strike me out. So I had actually ended up hitting home run off of her.

00:25:05
Speaker 4: But that was my first, my first.

00:25:09
Speaker 3: But shout out to Erica. Shout out to Erica.

00:25:13
Speaker 4: I would say about between four and five, I had gone down to work with Tony Gwynn. H Jack Jones allowed me to come down to San Diego stat his place, and we had put in some work and I was just learning about back path and I'm watching Jock and Tony work and they're doing these impossible drills for me. They're hit putting the ball off their back leg and hitting bullets at the lefts in the corner and I would do it and I would just kept hitting pop up after pop up or rollover and I'm just like, man, I don't know if I can do this. And I would get frustrated, and Tony'd be like, why are you getting upset? Like because you asked me to do something I can't do, and I'm just going off and it's like, but it's getting upset going to make you any better and I'm like no, He's like, so, why are you getting upset? So the first thing I learned to do was not get upset at the struggle. Defensively, I knew it the struggle led to greatness, But offensively, I just wasn't accepting not being able to do something I'm watching them to do with their eyes closed. Tony Gwyn is a different man, Let's just be honest. He could do anything with the bat, and Jock was his pupil. And then so I learned that lesson. And then I started hearing about Barry Bonds learning how to catch the ball and what that meant, and I think we who's at Cody Ransom came over from the Giant somewhere around that time, and he was talking about how he would work with Berry and drills that they would do. So I had Tony on one side, who's the bottom hand guy hitting the ball?

00:26:36
Speaker 1: The other way?

00:26:37
Speaker 4: Berry on the other side, who's the top hand guy on driving the ball? And then my real mentor Bobby I Bray you getting in and him literally fixing my swing, fixing the little the I guess the little barrel dropped that I would do and would cause a lot of bat lag and pop ups. And once I straightened out, I, once I got both sides my front arm, learned how to pull the bat down without having a do this and pop that elbow up, which is they kind of teach this dumb launch angle thing. Now, once I learned how to do that, I was able to put all three pieces together. Bottom hand has a job, top hand has a job. As long as I was conscious of this and making that move as I turned, the bat will drop me to slot naturally and swing up as you turn through the ball. Then I said, okay, Barry says, catching the ball knowing where my barrel is. If I treat that as a glove, I can catch the ball on the barrel.

00:27:32
Speaker 1: And it just started making sense. I mean, it was a lot of trust me.

00:27:37
Speaker 4: It's a lot of Bobby telling me, get up, get out regular day, Come on me and Rick can have to watch.

00:27:42
Speaker 1: It was a lot of that until I figured it out.

00:27:44
Speaker 4: And then I would get to spring training and get on an iron mic and I would get as close as I could because I heard Pete Rose did it, and I would just stand as close as I could. And when you're standing so close, you can't waste. You can't waste motion. There's no wasted movements when the ball's coming. It's probably like one hundred and twenty miles prior when you're that close. And I started barreling the ball and then catching the ball started making sense. It didn't take a lot of effort or movement to catch the ball. It was just being efficient from A to B. Once I did that, I was like, Okay, what happens if I tried to manipulate the ball in the air. What happens if I tried to manipulate the ball for a low line drive? And feeling that difference? And I learned, And when I especially count leverage, when I had a count of pitchers, I knew I had you know, what if I execute this move, I know what the results should be.

00:28:33
Speaker 1: And it just started to happen and happen. Then I was able to get in the groove.

00:28:37
Speaker 4: I knew certain pitches, certain counts that I was in position to damage, and I wasn't afraid of it. I think also was given freedom when Charlie came over, to be able to hit the ball in the air and try to drive the ball out the yard. Charlie like he wants you to hit. He wants you to get hits. He didn't want the ball in the air for pop ups. But if you're going to drive the ball out the yard, he was gonna let you go. He'd give you that three green light. And I looking that dug out and I'm like, hell yeah, Charlie, yeah, you know, and I would be rewarded. And I hit some three old bombs, my three zero counts. I was a real good hitting kind of flick over the years. So it was just a matter of me learning and then also me being allowed to when Charlie got there to regime. Before that old school, you know, hit the ball on the ground us your speed got in a lot of trouble if the ball went in the air.

00:29:24
Speaker 1: But with Charlie, it was like, you.

00:29:26
Speaker 4: Know, until you prove you can't do it, I'm gonna go ahead and let you, you know, be yourself and be all that you can't be and get out the most out of your abilities. So all that to say, it took a lot of work, and then I was half Then I was given permission to go ahead and make those attempts to do that, and I.

00:29:43
Speaker 1: Was able to have some succession driving the ball out the art.

00:29:47
Speaker 3: Great stuff, man, great stuff. Thank you.

00:29:50
Speaker 1: I thank them. It was them they, I mean they put in work.

00:29:53
Speaker 3: I listen, I studied baseball.

00:29:55
Speaker 8: I studied hitting for a long long time the leagues, and you know, if you want to get you got to study and you gotta work at it. And yeah, that explanation to me, I've never heard it from before.

00:30:04
Speaker 3: And I loved hearing Austin time.

00:30:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that. But look, I had to go to Bobby.

00:30:09
Speaker 4: I literally we were at the VET and so it took a year and and me and Bobby laughed. It took about a year and a half before he worked with me. I'm like, Bobby, like, what is it. I'm like, let me come work with He was like, okay, come work with me. But he never invited me to say, okay, come work with me. So I had to literally find out this schedule, which kind of, you know, got me in a little trouble sometimes, you know, the Bobby or Bray you schedule and figure out when he would hit. And it was never before he'd go in after BP, when the cage was open and everybody's in there eating and lunching, he'd go. He'd go in and start doing this work. So one day that just happened to sneak in and he laughed at me.

00:30:45
Speaker 3: I was like, I got you.

00:30:46
Speaker 4: And so from then on we worked and worked and worked until we got it right.

00:30:52
Speaker 5: I love your invitation to Charlie giving you the three old greens.

00:30:57
Speaker 1: That Bill rings.

00:31:03
Speaker 2: That that's the best about Charlie though. I know, you know, he was just so positive and just built you guys up. Do you think he Hays can do stuff? And I know, like there were times after a game where not necessarily you, but somebody would swing it a three to zero pitch and pop it up and then we'd go, do you want him swinging at three open?

00:31:18
Speaker 10: Goddamn, it's over the plate, you know, I want to in that count. And it made so much like it made so much swinging at the first pitch. Well, if it's a good pitch, yeah I want I'm swinging at it, man.

00:31:32
Speaker 4: And it's funny because in today's game, like there's a lot of things I think players in my generation got in trouble for, especially as leadoff hitters.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: And yes, leadoff hitters have switched.

00:31:41
Speaker 4: Now your lead off hitter now hits fifty home runs and the lineups were situated, you know, differently, But I always felt so you're telling me I need to sacrifice maa bat for somebody three three hitters for three hitters later like that made no sense. I did my homework the same way they did their homework. They're gonna pitch me completely differently than they're gonna pitch Ryan Howard, Chase Uddley, Pat Burrow, Jada or Bobby Bray. You those guys, They're not pitched me the same way. So why am I taking pitches for them? So you want me to take a ninety ninety four fastball right down the middle so you can see his breaking ball, Well, now don't. I don't want to see his breaking ball. That pitch is not meant to be hit. And that was my mentality and I would get in a lot of trouble for it. But if you look at my career, me swinging early one to oh counts, the numbers played out that that was the best time for me to be swinging it back and going back to Charlie, it got to a point where yeah, he didn't care. Oh oh, and it's one nothing. I did my job, Oh oh, and I had a weak round ball. Then we got to talk about it. But I still have permission. I still have permission. That was the biggest Having freedom is huge, having freedom to.

00:32:59
Speaker 1: Go ahead and play your game, right or wrong. It was on It was on me to succeed. But right or wrong.

00:33:05
Speaker 4: I had that freedom where in the past years in the early years, it was.

00:33:09
Speaker 1: Like a lade up fit.

00:33:10
Speaker 4: Are supposed to see fourty five pitches, and I'm like, well, the more pitches I see, the worse I get.

00:33:14
Speaker 1: Right, That's just what it was.

00:33:15
Speaker 2: I was just trying to look I was trying to look this up and I couldn't find it. But I know I've looked it up once in the past, because you would get killed a lot for swing at the first pitch. And I remember looking up the stat one time in your career numbers when you put the first pitch in play in any of that you were hitting like three thirteen career, Yeah, twenty career. When you put the first pitch of it that bat in play, you did very very well.

00:33:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, trust me, I'm very aware of this. But I could you know, I couldn't use it as an argument.

00:33:43
Speaker 4: I'm not going to go to the media and answer a question that way, it is what it is, you know, if you really want to look it up. I know where I suceeed, and it's my job to know that. And anyway, Charlie gave me permission, So talk to Charlie