Dr. Ashley Ruba's Candid Reflections on Life with Autism and ADHD

Welcome to Why Not Me the World? Podcast hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting from Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee. Join
us as our guests tell us their stories. Some will
make you laugh, some will make you cry. Real life
people who will inspire and show that you are not
alone in this world. Hopefully you gain more awareness, acceptance,
and a better understanding for autism around the world. Hi,
I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Why Not Me the World.
Today's guest is doctor Ashley Ruba. She earned her PhD
in elemental psychology. For over a decade, she studied how
young children learned about other people's emotions in order to
design programs that improve children's social skills. She just recently
found that she was diagnosed with both autism and ADHD.
She's got a tremendous story and I'm just happy to
have her. Welcome to the show. Oh yeah, thank you,
It's my pleasure. So I understand that you help a
lot of people with PhDs, and some of them are
autistic as well. So can you expand on that sum.
I guess like I inadvertently, but I'm actually like I
am well. I recently was diagnosed with autism about three
months ago. I'm actually like an engineer at a medical
device company, but I got my PhD in developmental psychology,
studying social and emotional development.
So it was very like once I.
Started putting the pieces together for myself, I was like,
how did I miss this?
Yeah?
So I guess my first first question would be what
led you to get diagnosed or led you to believe
that you might be autistic?
Yeah, I mean that's a good question.
I So I have like a pretty big following on
Twitter but also on LinkedIn, and I think I just
I'd seen a couple of people posting about having ADHD,
which I was also diagnosed with at the same time.
And I remember reading these posts and picking like, oh,
that's so funny, Like I that sounds like me, okay,
And then I was commenting on these posts and people
were like, you know, what you might you might want
to consider just like bringing this up to a therapist,
and like okay. But being me and being a researcher,
I started like digging into a lot of like just
googling a lot of things and reading a lot of things,
and was reading about presentations of like autism and ADHD
in like women and non binary people in particular, and
how that's missed right, Yeah, I think, like I mean,
one of like the big reasons was I had been
feeling like really really burnt out out because I think,
like I just mentioned, because the summer, I had just
pushed myself so hard socially.
I think I like hit a stage of autistic.
Burnout and didn't really realize it. But it was mostly
I changed careers recently and was having a really hard
time focusing at work, so I was exploring the ADHD
diagnosis primarily, but then I knew that they tended to
co occur, so I was just kind of reading into
it more, okay, And then I think what finally did
it was I took this camouflaging Autistic Treats Kushnaier the
cat Q, and I scored very high on it and
was like, oh, I didn't realize that all of the
things that I did personally were not like universal human experiences.
Okay, But then I just it all started.
Making like a lot more sense as I read more
and started putting the pieces together.
Now you say that you're ADHD. I just recently spoke
with a lady that says she's adhd and autistic as well. Yeah,
she says. The dynamic of it is that her adhd
will pull her one way and then her autism will
pull her another way. So I asked her how she
coped with it, So how do you cope with it?
Because evidently it's something new to you and you're just
figuring it out. So what's your thought process on that?
Yeah, I mean I think I can see how I
like engineered my life too. I don't have to have like,
like I'm someone who I really like familiarity and routine
and so I have like a lot of that and
like a lot of structure in my life. Sure, I think,
like how I've coped if everything has been through academic
achievement and through just like making myself so busy and
so challenged that I feel that's like when I feel
the most motivated.
To work, but I'm like working against a deadline, or it's.
Like otherwise like urgent, or I'm like really intellectually engaged
in what I'm doing.
So I think it's just I.
Just like managed to have like the right combination of
things to where I will just get like hyper focused
on things that I'm really interested in happen to be
all academically related, Okay, and so I think that's why
it was like missed for so long. But I do
I don't know. I do I do feel like the
tension between like wanting new things and also wanting like
familiarity and structure, right, So I do I do feel
that tension.
Oh that's that's interesting. So you say that you you
get focused on on what you're doing. Is that part
of the autism that really creates you to focus on
everything and just overanalyze or do you just focus and
really dig in to find out what's going on? How
do you relate to that?
Yeah, I mean it's it's hard to know whether it
is like the ADHD or the autism because I think
like my like my special interest right now is very
much around like I just started like a coaching business,
so it's around like coaching and content creating, so I'm
learning about sales and marketing and all these other entrepreneurial things, right,
and that's like very fascinating. So like I could I
could do work on that like all day. So that's
how like that that manifests like in terms of in
terms of focusing. But I think I'm also someone who
I am very hyper aware of people's like social and
emotional cues, like small changes in people's behavior, and so
I find myself like fixating on those things. So I
can tell if someone is upset or upset with me
if they just say like a word in a slightly
different tone. And that's very hard because I just like
see patterns right everywhere, and so it's hard to know
whether that's like my autistic self trying to like fit
in and like figure out how other people are like behaving.
Right. Yeah, A lot of people that I've spoken with
that are autistic say that they are very literal. They
have sometimes issues looking at people. If they tell a joke,
they might not get it, or they might overthink it.
Has that affected you at all?
The the literal thinking, I thought it was just kind
of this funny quirk of mine because there were some
plays on words that just like went right over my head,
like I didn't I took things literally and didn't see like.
A double meaning in that, okay, But.
In terms of humor, I had noticed it most often
like with my with my partner, because his sense of
humor is very deadpans. So peop will just say things
in a completely serious tone of voice, and I'm like,
I will just like believe him because there's no there's
no like indication that he's joking, right, And I've since
learned that I'm like, wait, are you are you joking?
Because I just like I can't tell Okay. But I
think where this has gotten me into trouble is like
I will just take people at their word, and so
if someone tells me something and it's not true, but
it's something that they think I want to hear, I
will just believe them because I don't like assume that
people are lying to me like that. And I think
there's also been times where people have told me things
I wanted to hear, or they like they were more
passive aggressive and they're passive in their communication and I
didn't read in between the lines, and then they got
like very upset with me because their communication wasn't directed.
I just wasn't like assuming that if someone wanted something,
they wouldn't just like tell.
Me sure, sure, Now what about your younger years? Because
you know, autism is not something that just comes on,
you're born with it. Yeah, And typically especially in females,
when they don't know what's going on. They'll mask it,
they'll do different things, they'll try and fit in. But
then when they hit their teens and their homeowns and
all that coming in, it really will hit them in
different ways. And sometimes it can cause depression, It can
cause you know, all kinds of things far as emotions.
Did you go through any of that.
Oh? Yeah, I think.
When I was like really young, I was a pretty
shy child, but it was very interest in school, very
motivated by school.
But I think when I started really having trouble socially
was in middle school.
I was getting bullied by a couple of people and
to the point where like by the time I got
to high school, I was like, I think I'd just
be better if I didn't say anything, and then people
wouldn't like make fun of me. And so I became
like very introverted. Only had like a few friends. Went
through undergrad. I went to do for undergrad and really
just like went hard into school because that felt really something.
I was really good at, okay, And I really only
maybe had like a friend or two. And it wasn't
until I moved out to Seattle and I started dating
someone who he was just like, I think it'd be
really good for you to like have friends, and he
was kind of like pushing me to be more social.
So I think at that point I figured out how
to interact with people. But yeah, I definitely experienced that
like around in middle school where social interactions just became
like really really hard, and it just kind of felt
like I was always losing this game that I just
like didn't understand how to play, and I didn't know
why because I'm like I'm not I'm like a nice person,
I'm not a bad person, right, Sure, Yeah, I've I've
always kind of struggled socially.
Did you go through any depression because of it or
did you Was you able to kind of figure it
out and just get above that.
I yeah, it was. I did struggle with depression.
I also had like the kind of like the tragic
experience of like when I was sixteen, a close friend
with mine died by suicide.
So I feel like that really.
Like was very traumatic and I met criteria for PTSD
for a few years after that. So it was like
I think after that, I was really having like a
lot of trust issues with people in general, So they
didn't that did not help, right, But but yeah, so
I and I think like moving out to Seattle and
experiencing the winters here, like those were those were hard,
And yeah, I think it's always kind of been like
a struggle for me socially. I don't I don't feel
like depressed now. I think because I've stopped pushing myself.
Well that's good.
As hard as I was.
Pushing myself socially when I just don't have the same
social capacity as other people.
Right, you moved to Seattle, it was kind of like
a fresh start. You didn't know anybody. Oh yeah, did
you still kind of keep as that introvert or did
you become a little bit more extroverted to take and
try and socialize more.
I started dating someone and he really was He's one
of the most extrovert people I know, and he like
saw that I didn't really have friends and that I was.
I think he really wanted me to be.
More social and was kind of like pushing me and
encouraging me to be more social and was essentially like,
I can't be your only friend and like if you
don't really try, like this isn't going to work, which
is totally valid.
Sure, And so like him and I.
We we dated for like eight years, and so like
during that time, he was really like that. That's when
I became like more social because I was going to parties,
which I hated going to because I just felt super anxious. Sure, yeah,
I mean going to academic conference is totally fine, lots
of structure there. Going to a party with strangers like not.
I'm really not good at small talk. I understand that.
I understand now that people like engage in small talk,
but it just it never really interests me that much.
So I think at this point I have figured out
like how to talk to people, but I just don't
think I didn't have that much of an interest in
other people. Okay, So my PhD is in psychology, and
I think like after kind of going through my PhD,
a lot of my interests in people feels very academic,
like I'm trying to figure people out from like a
scientific standpoint, right, So it's probably not the same like
the thing that like draws other people to like make friends,
and those are the people who I like, I really
like having in my life are the people who I
find really complex and where I'm having like more of
a hard time figuring them out because they're just they
have like so many facets going on, and people who
are more but if I'm more like simple and easy
to figure out, like they tend to not hold my
attention very much.
Okay, so you're very structured. You like structure, you like
intelligence and a little mystery to figure things out. Yes,
So what what's some of your experience what's been one
of the people or one of the one of the
situations to where you went into something blind you didn't
understand everything that was going on, but they were kind
of structured. You was kind of structured, and then you
had to kind of start using your psychology to figure
out what can you give me for an example where
you could sit back and say, yeah, that was a win.
Yeah, I think.
I mean when I when I moved back to Seattle
about a year ago, I knew like one person I
had like one good friend, and so I was really
trying to figure out, like how do I how do
I make friends here? And so I was going to
a lot of parties where I like didn't really know
a lot of people and was kind of having to
learn how to ask questions to people and like what
questions to ask people, and I think, like I can
be People have called me like intense, which is I
don't know that I'm like trying to be intense, But
I'll just immediately jump into like, you know, I've a
PhD in psychology, like what like what's your do you
know about attachment styles? Like what's your attachment style? Or
like how was your like how was your childhood? Like
things that I find like really interesting about people. And
I found that the people who weren't freaked out by
that ended up being like the people who I've like
became really close to.
So I was kind of like weeding weeding people out.
So I just kind of learned to be more like
unapologetic about about myself in that way.
Sure, have you got a bigger circle of friends now
or do you have like a smaller circle of friends
but more acquaintances? Yeah?
It was.
I mean so I I like a year ago I
had I would say like a pretty I was like
in this pretty like this bigish community of friends. And
I think because of because because of my autism, like
because I have trouble with like indirect communication, I was
my therapist says, I was scapegoaded out of this friend group,
and so I I don't see any of those people anymore.
So this summer, I like essentially had to restart and
like make a bunch of friends. I'm in like another
big friend group who like I'll see them at parties
and stuff.
But in terms of like.
Core people who I see like on a week to
week basis, it's maybe only like one or two people.
But I do like being connected to like a broader community. Sure,
but I'm much more selective about who I let like
really close to me because I feel like I was
burned pretty badly by multiple people who I really trusted.
Okay, so now you've you've kind of figured out how
you can gain friends. You kind of try and not
psychoanalyze them too much, but you still you know, work
them in and include them in your circle. What's the
polar opposite of that? What is some of the things
that you learned by it not working out?
I guess like I'm appreciating that I really need like
direct communication because I just I can't. I can't like
read in between the lines, like I was saying before,
And so I find that when when people are like
passive aggressive or like if when they don't clearly communicate
with me. I just at this point in my life,
I don't really have patience for that anymore.
And I feel like before I was like.
So worried about getting like having people like me, and
I think at this point I just appreciate that, like,
not everyone is going to like me, and that's okay.
Yeah. Has the fact that you're autistic? Has that come
out within your social groups to where people can actually
realize that your process of thinking is a little different
than what they are, so that way they might be
able to cope with a little bit better and give
you some little latitude to take and develop so that
they can understand and build that relationship.
Yeah.
I think I think it's been hard because I don't
think I present as like someone who has autism obviously,
Like there's a saying like you know one autistic person,
you know one autist person because it's just spectrum exactly.
Just about every episode I have, that line comes up.
Yeah. Oh yeah, So I think like it was. I
mean I told people and they were just like.
Are you sure? Like they didn't believe me, right are?
They're like, how do you know that you're not just
socially anxious or people are like, well, I've worked with
autistic kids, like you don't seem autistic, and it's because
I'm like so successful professionally and academically and because I
can mask so much and I have been that I
don't think.
I think I'm just trying to.
Be like more clear with people when I I feel
like I do need a lot of time now to
like recharge after social events, which before I just like
wasn't allowing myself to rest, and now I'm just like
more unapologetic.
About like like I just like I can't.
But but yeah, I mean it's I I've also tried
to like not force myself to make eye contact with
people because I just find that.
To be like really exhausting.
And I've only had a few people explicitly like ask
me about that, but they just like think I feel
like uncomfortable, and I have to explain to them, like
I'm not uncomfortable. I just like it's just a lot
and I don't need to. But it's just a social
norm in the United States. So it just it feels
weird when you're not for other people. It feels weird
when you're not doing it well.
So many people have this perception of what autism is,
and they're so wrong, Yeah, because they look at the
Hollywood version, which is Rainman. Oh yeah, then when they
see someone this autistic, they might see someone this autistic
that has like down syndrome or other problems that are
actually more visible, whereas a real autistic person that can function,
such as yourself, it's not visible. You know, it's a
mindset and it's something that you have to process, and
you process at it differently, and they don't get it.
So how do you deal with those people that don't
get it? Do you just push them away? Or do
you try and explain to them what's going on so
that they can get a better understanding of what you're
going through.
Yeah, I always, I always try to explain things to people.
I feel like that's that is like a very very
like autistic response I have when I feel misunderstood. I'm like, well,
let me just explain this to you, let me like
give you all of the information. And some people are
like willing to understand. And I've also learned that some
people just like don't want to understand.
Which is a very sad thing to say.
And like I'm never going to convince them but I
always I always try because I still like, I don't know,
I still like believe that.
If if people just like if I just explained it to.
People, if I just like gave people more information, then
they would believe me.
But yeah, well.
Those people that don't believe or don't want to, then
they're not worth your time anyways.
Yeah, yeah, which I which I am like learning, but yeah,
it's just I'm not I, like I said, I feel
like I've I've pushed myself like way too much. And
was was my diagnosed with depression for a really long
time because I experienced chronic fatigue, right, and I was
experiencing like all these other symptoms that were like being
like uh misdiagnosed with other things. And it was just
because I was I was just like pushing myself so
hard socially when I just I just can't at least
like not in a face to face capacity.
I really like talking to people virtually, like I talk
to people like a lot of.
People on LinkedIn and on Twitter and like you know.
Talking to you.
And I work remotely and most of the time we
have our cameras off, and like all of that feels
very like manageable because there's some I don't know, there's
like some barrier, like talking over a text feels like
super easy and like not exhausting at all, But yeah,
face to face is just whole thing entirely.
So now you say that you're doing psychology and you
have a practice that you're doing, what's your lifeline now?
Look like? Yeah?
So I So I got my peaching to the little psychology,
but it was an experimental degree, so not clinical. So
I was doing research on like early childhood emotion perception
until about two years ago, and then I switched and
then I started working in tech.
So I was doing research and.
Meta for about a year and now I work at
a medical device company. So I'm doing psychology research, but
right now I'm doing it with surgeons to figure out
how surgeons use our products in order to make them
safe and effective for people to use. So I'm a
researcher at the end of the day. But on the side,
I also do coaching for other PhDs who want to
make similar career transitions out of an academic career and
into various non academic careers because it's a very hard
transition and there's not a lot of support, and there's
a lot of a lot of like emotions that go
along like with that transition that I experienced, Like I
know it was, I know how hard it is because
I did it. So so those are like the two
things that I do that I do now. Right.
So, so when when you finish your work and your
you're here where you are on a Friday night, what's
your downtime look like? What what do you do to
just relax and just get into your own world and
not think about anything else in the outside world. What
comforts you?
Yeah, that's a good question because I feel like I do,
I guess, like the short answer, really like going out
and dancing. And I'm like in particular, like I have
friends I know, like my friends here who throw like.
The underground like techno parties.
In Seattle, which I feel like for other autistic people
like that would be very overstimulating, but I don't. For me,
it's just like it's just like very fun. And like
I think other people find technod be super repetitive, but
I think that's part of what I like about it.
But even then I find in my downtime or even
like outdance, I end up thinking about like work a
lot at this point, like thinking about my like coaching
business specifically, And I think I've just I've just kind
of accepted that I really get a lot of fulfillment
out of out of that. And I try not to
be too hard on myself for just like thinking about
work a lot. But but yeah, because I'll do that,
and I do that like in my in my free time,
just like I you know, I'm I'm about to start
a podcast like myself in a couple of months. I've
been thinking about that a lot recently, and Yeah, it's
just kind of like, like it feels fun and creative.
You say you like fun and creative. What do you
like to create? You're talking about a podcast now, but
you're talking about your work. So what is it you
tap into when you say I think I want to
be creative? Now, if you get inspired five minutes from now,
what are you going to be inspired to do?
Yeah?
I think like a lot of it comes down to writing,
And so I mean that I think that's why I've
gravitated towards like Twitter and like in as the platforms
that I create content on, because they're both writing based platforms,
and I used to be, like I started getting into
writing because of creative writing. I was very bored in
my tenth grade, my ninth grade geometry class, and started
just like writing short stories and poetry and class because
I was bored, and then ended up taking like a
bunch of creative writing classes. I wrote poetry for a
while and then and then moved into like academic writing.
But I even found the process of writing like a
literature review to be pretty creative and that I was
just having to read and like pull insights and like
generate new theories and concepts from all of these different sources.
And that's kind of so I ended up thinking about, like,
you know, creating content that like resonates with people.
And how like how can I write this in a
creative way.
So that feels like a very creative process for me,
just like all of the business stuff in general, because
it's just me. It's just me coming up with everything.
So that feels that feels like really creative to me.
Is that when you think you're probably in your best
comfort zone when you're sitting back creating and just hopefully relaxing,
or does the ADHD kick in to where you have
a hard time to relax and it makes it a
little bit more difficult to create.
Uh, it is very hard for me. I think it's
because of like the ADHD. I feel like someone's just
kind of like clicking through my brain like at all times,
and so.
Yeah, so it is harder. It is harder for me
to do that.
It kind of depends. Like sometimes when I'm listening to music,
I'm like very focused on the music. Other times, like
I feel like with electronic music where there isn't lyrics necessarily,
I feel like my it's very hard for me to
just focus in on the music without my thoughts just
kind of like going. But I kind of but I
viewed that as like my creative my creative time movies
are movies are easier for me to focus on, So
it I would say it depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes, yes,
and sometimes it's just I think when my brain and
this is I have like a sometimes a really hard
time in like work meetings, especially if they're like really
big work meetings, because the minute my brain tags something
as like you don't need to pay attention or like
this isn't relevant, it's kind of just like off to
the next thing that it seems as more interesting.
So do you think that you found any form of
comfort zone.
You mean, like within myself?
Yeah, uh, yes, somewhat. I would I would say I
had like a I had like about a year ago.
I think like it was finally starting to click for me,
and then I had a really hard year. Like I said,
I like lost a bunch of friends who I felt
like really close to it for a while, like really
was like really really depressed, was like having like passive
suicidal thoughts, like was not did not like myself kind
of blamed myself for everything. And so it's been a
process of healing from from that and kind of accepting
that like I'm doing pretty pretty good. So I think, like, yes,
but I am, at the end of the day, a
perfectionist who has like maybe not like such a perfectionist,
but I had like very very high standards for myself.
So even when I have like coaches for helping with
my business, even when they're telling me like you know,
you're one of my star mentees, like you're doing such
a good job, I still look at what I've done
and I'm like this isn't enough, Like.
This isn't I could do better.
And so, but I don't think that's because I feel
like I'm inadequate. I just like, I just know that
I just called myself to really really high standards where
other people would look at me and be like, you're
so successful, and I'd be like, I could do better.
I get that. I'm just so glad that when you
did get depressed and you had some suicidal thoughts that
you didn't act upon it, because I don't know if
you know it or not, but suicide is the second
leading cause of death amongst most autistic people in the world,
and I'm just so happy that you beat that.
Yeah, I believe it.
You know. I had never been like kind of like
removed from a friend group before, and it was really
painful to be like, Wow, all of
these people just don't want to spend time with me anymore.
And it's it's still hard because I will see some
of them like out in a bout and it just
it's really hard. And I still question, like, am I
really like that bad of a person to where like
all of you are going to pretend that I don't
exist anymore?
Yeah?
Right, So when you do to get depressed when something
happened and for whatever reason, it just flips that switch
and you started getting depressed. What do you do to
dig yourself out of that depression so that you can
look at things and say, you know, it's not all
that bad. I'm not all that bad. Things are going
to be okay, and I belong here.
Yeah, I feel like I've done that a lot, like
over the past year. Yeah, I mean, I've seen a therapist.
I've had like multiple therapists now, but I've seen a
therapist since like twenty fifteen. It's like a really really
long time. So I've I found that like that helps.
It helps to have someone who can see things more
like objectively. And I feel like my therapist now, I've
been seeing them for a year and they've been pretty
good lately about I feel like they're getting a little
more protective over me, and they're very good about telling
me that like this isn't how like I should be treated.
Or this is and just kind of like standing up
for me in a way that I have dificulty.
But other than that, I've always found that exercise is
really helpful with my mood in general. And and now
I feel like a lot of a lot of the
depression like sometimes just comes from like social burnout. So
I try to just you know, take take some time
like away to you know, just like cut out like
all stimulation or like the amount that I have to
like talk to other people, just so I can like
recharge and come back. But but yeah, I just I
feel like I've been through a lot, like the past
few years, and it's always like it's always gotten better
at some point.
And I think at the end of the day.
I am like reminded of my my friend who died
by suside when I was in high school, and I think,
like how much that has impacted me, even like almost
seventeen years later. And I could not imagine doing that
to like anyone else like in my life. So that
that is also kind of like the thing that keeps
me grounded when in like I when like last year,
when things were like felt really bad.
If you was standing in front of one hundred people
right now and some of them are autistic, some of
them are ADHD, and some of them are just neurotypical
and just there to see you, what would you tell them,
what would you want to put across to them to
just kind of inspire them? I guess.
Yeah, I mean I think I think all this was
you know, it was really it was really hard on
myself for not knowing any of this as again, like
a developmental psych PhD who studied early childhood emotional development
and who had read a bunch of articles about autism
and like how it presents in like infancy and early
childhood and and none of that research and none of
the textbooks and nothing that I learned did it.
Did I ever think like this is me.
Because it's just all based around research with like really
young CIS boys, and so I think.
Like more, more and more like women.
And non binary folks are like are finding are realizing
this now as adults, and.
It's really it's really hard.
I haven't experienced this myself, but you know, some people,
you know, think that you might be like doing it
for attention and like saying saying that you have like
a disorder that you don't like just for attention, and
so definitely like not there's a lot of stigma around this,
definitely like not doing it for attention or anything. But
but yeah, I think I think, just like I really
hope that the feel like the field that I was
in does more research about how this is presented in
people other than men, because there's just I like, I
wish I would have had like any kind.
Of social support, Like when I was younger.
I wish anyone have noticed like how much I was struggling,
but no one did because I was just really good
at school.
So I would love for.
There to be more, just like more awareness so that
there's not like a generation of girls who are just
kind of struggling silently.
Yeah, I think that's a great message.
Yeah, yeah, no, I for sure.
And I mean and that's why I like share this
story because I've had like plenty of people every time
I talk about it will like DM me and be
like how did like this?
This kind of sounds like me, Like how did you know?
How do you figure it out?
And I think just like more information and more awareness
will just help people figure out like what kind of
support and accommodations they can have.
Well, this has been a great conversation. You've given a
lot of information, and I just want to tell you
how much I really appreciate you taking your time to
come on to my podcast.
Yeah, I I don't I've I've done a lot of
podcasts and don't I feel like all the questions I
get asked are like, very career related, so it's nice
to talk about like I don't like these topics. This is.
This is probably the first extended conversation I've had about it,
So it's been fun.
It has been and I've appreciated for so much. Thanks
for taking the time out of your busy schedule to
listen to our show today. We hope that you enjoyed
it as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.
If you know anyone that would like to tell us
their story, send them to tonymantor dot com contact then
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may be a guest on our show. One more thing
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to everyone everywhere that you are not alone in this
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